For years, climate realists have been wondering how the global warming alarmists would react when the planet actually cooled, albeit for an unknown amount of time.
With the winter of 2008 ushering in record-cold temperatures in the Northern Hemisphere -- following similar, albeit mostly unreported, weather in the Southern Hemisphere's 2007 winter -- it seems the resolve of the believers has been a bit weakened, to say the least.
Take for example Sunday's New York Times article by environment reporter Andrew C. Revkin entitled "Climate Skeptics Seize on Cold Spell" (emphasis added throughout):
The world has seen some extraordinary winter conditions in both hemispheres over the past year: snow in Johannesburg last June and in Baghdad in January, Arctic sea ice returning with a vengeance after a record retreat last summer, paralyzing blizzards in China, and a sharp drop in the globe’s average temperature.
It is no wonder that some scientists, opinion writers, political operatives and other people who challenge warnings about dangerous human-caused global warming have jumped on this as a teachable moment.
[...]According to a host of climate experts, including some who question the extent and risks of global warming, it is mostly good old-fashioned weather, along with a cold kick from the tropical Pacific Ocean, which is in its La Niña phase for a few more months, a year after it was in the opposite warm El Niño pattern.
If anything else is afoot — like some cooling related to sunspot cycles or slow shifts in ocean and atmospheric patterns that can influence temperatures — an array of scientists who have staked out differing positions on the overall threat from global warming agree that there is no way to pinpoint whether such a new force is at work.
Interesting, wouldn't you agree? Sounds almost like the position of the realists.
After all, Revkin claimed "there is no way to pinpoint whether such a new force is at work" in driving down temperatures that have been observed in the past few months. Well, realists believe there's no way to "pinpoint" what forces are responsible for the global warming trend in the past 150 years.
Sounds like common ground, doesn't it?
To better define the realist view, such scientists, meteorologists, and climatologists feel that there are many factors impacting the weather, and that, despite claims by alarmists, there is absolutely no definitive proof that increasing atmospheric carbon dioxide levels is the primary culprit behind a slight rise in average global temperatures since 1850.
Yet, a problem arises from Revkin's "pinpoint" statement: if there's no way to determine exactly what's caused the sudden cooling that scientists have actually been able to observe the past eight months in both hemispheres, how can folks be so confident that carbon dioxide emissions have been the cause of rising temperatures that began a century before most of the alarmists were born?
Interesting conundrum, wouldn't you agree?
The good news, though, is Revkin's reference to the current La Nina which is indeed impacting temperature and moisture patterns around the globe. Such was predicted by many climate realists last year.
Now, in fairness, Revkin, as one of the saner climate alarmists in the press, has regularly written about the significance of El Ninos and La Ninas in this equation, especially the role the former played in the extreme temperatures the planet experienced in 1998.
Coincidentally, likely every climate realist worth his or her salt would attribute some responsibility to the current La Nina for the extremely cold Southern Hemisphere winter of 2007 and our up to this point cold 2008.
An interesting turn of events when alarmists and realists can agree on something, don't you think?
Yet, that wasn't the only part of Revkin's article that both sides might see eye-to-eye on:
The shifts in the extent and thickness of sea ice in the Arctic (where ice has retreated significantly in recent summers) and Antarctic (where the area of floating sea ice has grown lately) are similarly hard to attribute to particular influences.
Exactly, Andrew. In fact, virtually every climate realist would agree with this. However, that's certainly not what alarmists were saying last summer when Arctic ice plummeted to their lowest levels since satellites first began measuring them in the '70s.
Quite the contrary, Americans were subjected to hysterical news story after hysterical news story about how these ice level declines were specifically caused by global warming, and that it represented the beginning of the end of the polar ice caps with potentially cataclysmic portent.
Revkin's own paper published nineteen articles last year connecting declining Arctic sea ice to global warming or climate change. In fairness, none of these was written by Revkin, although he did contribute to one in November.
Despite the areas of common ground, there was some hypocrisy in Sunday's article:
Interviews and e-mail exchanges with half a dozen polar climate and ice experts last week produced a rough consensus: Even with the extensive refreezing of Arctic waters in the deep chill of the sunless boreal winter, the fresh-formed ice remains far thinner than the yards-thick, years-old ice that dominated the region until the 1990s.
Those fully engaged in this debate should immediately recognize a couple of problems with this statement by Revkin.
First of all, the current intermediate warming trend began in the mid-'70s. Here in America, the warmest year during this cycle was 1998, with much debate about what year was the warmest globally.
Regardless, most climate realists believe that 1998 was indeed the peak in this cycle, and that the subsequent nine years have represented at best a plateau before a potential cooling phase. If 2007-2008 is the real start of temperature declines -- which is yet to be determined -- one shouldn't expect ice levels to have returned to where they were before the warmest years in this cycle; that could take several years of cooling to occur.
Maybe more important, routine monitoring of Arctic ice levels didn't begin until 1972, with satellite examinations commencing in 1979. As such, comparing today's levels exclusively to those "that dominated the region until the 1990s" is absolutely absurd.
Revkin himself quoted scientists in his article that admonished such short-term thinking:
Michael E. Schlesinger, an atmospheric scientist at the University of Illinois, Urbana-Champaign, said that any focus on the last few months or years as evidence undermining the established theory that accumulating greenhouse gases are making the world warmer was, at best, a waste of time and, at worst, a harmful distraction.
Discerning a human influence on climate, he said, “involves finding a signal in a noisy background.” He added, “The only way to do this within our noisy climate system is to average over a sufficient number of years that the noise is greatly diminished, thereby revealing the signal. This means that one cannot look at any single year and know whether what one is seeing is the signal or the noise or both the signal and the noise.”
Doesn't that mean that comparing today's Arctic ice levels exclusively to those witnessed in the '80s before temperatures peaked during this intermediate warming trend is just a lot of hysterical noise that should be avoided by real scientists?
Sadly, Revkin failed to recognize this hypocrisy, or this one:
“Climate skeptics typically take a few small pieces of the puzzle to debunk global warming, and ignore the whole picture that the larger science community sees by looking at all the pieces,” said Ignatius G. Rigor, a climate scientist at the Polar Science Center of the University of Washington in Seattle.
He said the argument for a growing human influence on climate laid out in last year’s reports from the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change, or I.P.C.C., was supported by evidence from many fields.
“I will admit that we do not have all the pieces,” Dr. Rigor said, “but as the I.P.C.C. reports, the preponderance of evidence suggests that global warming is real.” As for the Arctic, he said, “Yes, this year’s winter ice extent is higher than last year’s, but it is still lower than the long-term mean.”
Dr. Rigor said next summer’s ice retreat, despite the regrowth of thin fresh-formed ice now, could still surpass last year’s, when nearly all of the Arctic Ocean between Alaska and Siberia was open water.
Once again, folks fully engaged in this debate should immediately recognize some problems with the good doctor's views. First and foremost, this "long-term mean" is based on records that are at best 36 years old, and at worst 29.
Why do the alarmists always ignore this inconvenient truth when they talk about Arctic ice levels?
Beyond this, as previously stated, if this is the beginning of a cooling trend, it would be ridiculous to expect ice levels to have so quickly grown above their mean since monitoring began; again, this could take several years of cooling to occur.
Furthermore, Rigor said, "...next summer’s ice retreat, despite the regrowth of thin fresh-formed ice now, could still surpass last year’s." That's right. It could.
But, it might not, and that's what's scaring the heck out of the alarmists.
Alas, the hypocrisy continued:
Some scientists who strongly disagree with each other on the extent of warming coming in this century, and on what to do about it, agreed that it was important not to be tempted to overinterpret short-term swings in climate, either hot or cold.
Andrew: You mean media members and folks like Al Gore shouldn't attribute every hurricane, tornado, drought, wildfire, and heat-wave to global warming?
I completely agree.
Yet, sadly, that hasn't been the case, for in the past several years, every single thing that has occurred on this planet that can even remotely be blamed on climate change has been.
Finally:
Patrick J. Michaels, a climatologist and commentator with the libertarian Cato Institute in Washington, has long chided environmentalists and the media for overstating connections between extreme weather and human-caused warming. (He is on the program at the skeptics’ conference.)
But Dr. Michaels said that those now trumpeting global cooling should beware of doing the same thing, saying that the “predictable distortion” of extreme weather “goes in both directions.”
I completely agree, Andrew. Does this mean that folks on your side of this debate should stop pointing to every extreme "warm" event as evidence of climate change?
Regardless of what Revkin's answer would be, I agree with him that it is likely too soon to declare this current cold-spell as anything more than good old-fashioned weather. However, as there are a goodly number of climate realists who predicted a La Nina would begin last year, and that it would result in a significant cooling trend, it bears watching.
In fact, many of these same folks have for years stated that 1998 would end up being the warmest year in this cycle, and that a variety of factors point to an extended period of cooling, even a mini-Ice Age. Coincidentally, while writing this piece, I received an e-mail message containing data and exhibits from an emeritus professor of geology named Don Easterbrook who claims in response to Revkin's article that we've been in a predicted cooling trend since 2002:
The average of the four main temperature measuring methods is lightly cooler since 2002 (except for a brief el Nino interuption [sic]) and record breaking cooling this winter. The argument that this is too short a time period to be meanful would be valid were it not for the fact that this cooling exactly fits the pattern of timing of warm/cool cycles over the past 400 years and was predicted.
As I have yet to go through all of his data and exhibits, I will leave his input at that for the time being, with more to follow.
To be sure, forecasts of impending global cooling are indeed just predictions at this point, and it could be years before we know their accuracy. As such, Revkin is 100 percent correct when he suggests those claiming this cold winter represents the beginning of global cooling might be jumping the gun a bit.
On the other hand, it would be nice if the alarmists, including Revkin, at least recognized this as a possibility, and advocated a halt to all mandatory, legislative global warming "solutions" until we are indeed sure that the current weather is just an anomaly in a longer-term up-cycle instead of the beginning of a cooling trend.
After all, why should billions of dollars be taken out of the economy -- at a time when it appears to be slowing -- in order to be given to government agencies to "solve" a problem that nature may at this very moment be attending to?
If the alarmists are indeed concerned about the environment rather than just using it as a means of raising tax revenues as they punish energy companies and automakers as well as gas-guzzling consumers, maybe they ought to immediately cease and desist from anymore global warming hysteria while scientists "pinpoint" what is behind this cold-spell, and just how long it's going to last.
Or, is that asking for too much sanity in the middle of a debate that has for years sorely lacked rational thought?
—Noel Sheppard is the Associate Editor of NewsBusters.





















Editor at Large
Comments Policy
"...a new force..."
March 2, 2008 - 19:50 ET by scamoramaNo Andrew, it's the same combination of forces that have been at work for millions of years -- without human intervention or conceit.
Noel, If one factors in the extra day of winter, this year,
March 2, 2008 - 19:53 ET by upcountrywaterFebruary 29! All the winter math goes out the window <sarc>
Iranian uranium; Iranian ICBM's; Iranian satellites..CHANGE is comming BELIEVE in that!
This the beginning of the End of GW in Congress ? ?
March 2, 2008 - 20:01 ET by JayTeeAs you point out, the Scientists can't have it both ways...
if there's no way to determine exactly what's caused the sudden cooling that scientists have actually been able to observe the past eight months ........then the same applies to Global warming.
I like your statement to " advocate a halt to all mandatory, legislative global warming "solutions" until we are indeed sure that the current weather is just an anomaly in a longer-term up-cycle instead of the beginning of a cooling trend."
This should go on the Priority list in Congress, and at least the Global warming Idiots have a Solution to Global Cooling...SUV's and Coal fired Generating Plants!
Well
March 2, 2008 - 20:08 ET by well99Is Winter 2008 Making Climate Alarmists Question Global Warming?
Are you kidding?We have what we call the green problem.Without GB all the green money will dry up.Cant have that.Brother Al has to pay them high utilities bills.
Or, is that asking for too
March 2, 2008 - 20:16 ET by MidAmericaOr, is that asking for too much sanity in the middle of a debate that has for years sorely lacked rational thought?
debate!!.... The debates been over for a long time. We have consensus.
This reminds me of the dems and Iraq. Good news is bad news (for them). Here the 'scientists' have bet everything on impending global disaster and when the whole world cools, in spite of their calculations, and maybe we ain't all gonna die and yet they are not relieved.
GW Comeback
March 2, 2008 - 20:36 ET by ThisnThatI sincerely hope this cooling period is just a bump in the road. I'm sick and tired of shoveling all this GW "offerings" every-other-day from my driveway here in New Hampshire. It's gotton so bad, you can't see over the drifts. Check this out, for example.
___________________________________
If you can read this, thank a teacher. If it is in English, thank a Soldier. - My barber
Tonight Boston tv showed a
March 2, 2008 - 21:25 ET by Cape Conservativefellow in NH shoveling his driveway...and the drifts were wayyyyy over his head! The ski resorts must be enjoying the extended season! Don't envy you, tnt ;-) Great link!
Glaciers- Popular Mechanics 1957 issue
March 2, 2008 - 21:00 ET by Mica the MagnificentI have a copy of the September 1957 issue of Popular Mechanics (over 50 years ago) and on page 106 - guess what the headline states?
"Are winters gettng milder than in the good old days? Are summers hotter and springs wetter? Tornadoes, hurricanes, droughts and floods more frequent?"
The panel of climatologists talk about . . . are you ready? . . . .
Sunspot activity! And how they change in cycles every 40 years or so.
BETTER YET!
Remember that famous picture of the retreating glacier in Alaska - There are three pictures of it in this article -
The first one taken in 1889 - it shows a high solid glacier
The next photo - taken in 1935 - shows it had lost 3900 feet of its 'tail' and even vegetation made an appearance.
The final photo, taken in 1950 - shows the glacier almost gome, another 2600 feet had melted.
I recall the global warmists using only the picture from 1889 and a more recent picture to show 'dramatic change.'
And it's all due to sunspots. Isn't it amazing how science can figure things out when leftists aren't around?
Mica... Amazing...simply
March 2, 2008 - 21:15 ET by bigtimerMica...
Amazing...simply amazing.
Excellent find...now tell Algore and JimmyHansen about this...they will spin their way out of it...(as if they don't kow about this in the first place)
Planetary Emergency!....Planetary Emergency!
What are the odds?
March 2, 2008 - 21:36 ET by Mica the MagnificentIsn't it odd that the global warmists decided to take a recent picture of this same particular glacier to demonstrate current global warming?
Any chance they already knew it had retreated as far back as 1950, and vegetation had grown as far back as 1935?
Hey Al, that banging at your door are fools demanded a carbon-credit refund
Popular Mechanics
March 3, 2008 - 03:00 ET by Giles WinterbourneI'll bet a middle school science teacher would have something to say (that is, not something positive) about citing PM magazine as a report resource.
Now, maybe something from a science journal would actually have some weight in an argument.
My dear Giles
March 3, 2008 - 07:58 ET by Mica the MagnificentSo . . .If the climatologists displayed a chart of sunspot activity, it wouldn't matter to you because the chart wasn't displayed in a science journal?
They answered questions such as, "Do you think we're in a warming cycle?
I guess, to you, that question would only be valid if asked by someone working for a journal nobody reads.
Popular Mechanics has more gravitas for me than your approved scientist, Algore.
PM '57
March 3, 2008 - 11:27 ET by Giles WinterbourneSince PM isn't well established as a science journal, I'd be suspect of any data until it was shown to be based on quality information. Easy enough to check the creds of the named scientists and research facilities. Where did the reporter get the information; where did the scientists get their information?
Just as I would for most any link presented to me as part of a research paper. Issues when citing research are Authority - does the writer know what they are talking about, Accuracy - is the information verifiable, cited elsewhere, complete, and Bias - is there an agenda, either explicit or implied.
So, when someone cites a single (or even 5 or 10) study after saying 'It's the sun', 'It's water vapor', or 'earth orbit', I'll look at who published, where published, what discussion has followed the study, who cites it in further research.
Interesting comment about 'my approved scientist', btw- I've never cited him, so you're making a huge leap at Assumption Point.
O-k, Giles: The creds of the scientists, 1957
March 3, 2008 - 11:38 ET by Mica the MagnificentThe climatologists were:
Dr. H.E. Landsberg, Director, Office of Climatology, U.S. Weather Bureau, Washington DC
Dr. Sverre Petterssen, Professor of Meteorology and Director, Weather Forecasting Research Center, University of Chicago
Dr. Hurd C. Willet, Professor of Meteorology, Massachusetts Institute of Technology, Cambridge, Mass.
Not exactly a group of garage mechanics you were hoping for, eh Giles?
Something from PM is in
March 3, 2008 - 12:24 ET by danboSomething from PM is in question. But we can use something from a cartoonist.
"There is a clear attempt to establish truth not by scientific methods but by perpetual repetition."
- Richard S. Lindzen, Ph.D. Professor of Meteorology, MIT
Giles, would the SOHO
March 3, 2008 - 11:42 ET by bassndudeGiles, would the SOHO information be allowable to you? That would be a single study, I know, but...hey....pure science of the sun and resulting reactions on Earth. But if ya just gotta have two, heres another one for ya....and just to be sure, another one.
Save a SeAL, club a liberal!!
Evidence of a Solar Origin of Climate Change
March 3, 2008 - 07:59 ET by PopularTechAstronomical Theory of Climate Change (NOAA)
Milankovitch Cycles (Video) (3min)
Ancient Climate Excursion Linked To A Rare Anomaly In Earth's Orbit (Science Daily)
Changing Orbit Explains Ice Ages, Scientist Says (Space.com)
Climate Model For Earth Also Describes Changes On Mars (Science Daily)
Earth's Orbit Creates More Than A Leap Year: Orbital Behaviors Also Drive Climate Changes, Ice Ages (Science Daily)
Global wobbling may melt the ice (NewScientist)
Longterm Climate Change Due to Astronomical Cycles (UC Berkley)
Martian 'wobbles' shift climate (BBC)
Milankovitch Cycles and the Ice Ages (NASA)
Other Planets Influence Earth's Climate, University Of Toronto Scientist Says (Science Daily)
Study Links Extinction Cycles to Changes in Earth's Orbit and Tilt (The New York Times)
The persistent role of the Sun in climate forcing (The Danish National Space Center)
100,000-Year Climate Pattern Linked To Sun's Magnetic Cycles (Science Daily)
Basic physics supports solar activity as cause of global warming (The Guardian, UK)
Cosmic Rays and Climate (The Danish National Space Center)
Cosmic Rays Blamed for Global Warming (The Daily Telegraph, UK)
Cosmic Rays 'Linked to Clouds' (BBC)
Cosmic Rays Linked To Global Warming (Science Daily)
Cosmoclimatology: A new theory of climate change (The Danish National Space Center)
Evidence For Sun-climate Link Reported By UMaine Scientists (Science Daily)
It's the Sun, Stupid (Steve Milloy, B.A. Natural Sciences, M.S. Health Sciences)
NASA Study Finds Increasing Solar Trend That Can Change Climate (NASA)
New Analysis Shows Earth's Lower Stratosphere In Synch With Solar Cycle (Science Daily)
New Experiment To Investigate Effect Of Galactic Cosmic Rays On Clouds And Climate (Science Daily)
Northern Climate, Ecosystems Driven By Cycles Of Changing Sunlight (Science Daily)
Read the sunspots (Tim Patterson, Ph.D. Professor of Geology)
Solar blow to low cloud could be warming planet (Nature News)
Sun's Direct Role In Global Warming May Be Underestimated, Duke Physicists Report (Science Daily)
Sun more active than for a millennium (NewScientist)
Sun, Not Man, Main Cause of Climate Change, New Study Says (CNSNews)
Sun's Output Increasing in Possible Trend Fueling Global Warming (Space.com)
Sun's warming influence 'under-estimated' (BBC)
Sunspots: correlations with temperature (Luboš Motl, Ph.D. Theoretical Physicist)
Surface Warming And The Solar Cycle (Science Daily)
The Sun's Chilly Impact On Earth (Science Daily)
The Sun and Global Warming (NASA)
The Sun Is More Active Now Than Over The Last 8000 Years (Science Daily)
The truth about global warming - it's the Sun that's to blame (The Daily Telegraph, UK)
Global warming on other planets (Luboš Motl, Ph.D. Theoretical Physicist)
Jupiter - New Storm on Jupiter Hints at Climate Change (Space.com)
Jupiter - Researcher Predicts Global Climate Change On Jupiter As Planet's Spots Disappear (Science Daily)
Mars - Climate Change Hits Mars (The Times, UK)
Mars - Evidence Of Climate Change, Icy Region Observed On Mars (Science Daily)
Mars - Evidence for Recent Climate Change on Mars (Malin Space Science Systems)
Mars - Mars Melt Hints at Solar, Not Human, Cause for Warming, Scientist Says (Khabibullo Abdusamatov, Ph.D. Astrophysicist)
Mars - NASA's Global Surveyor Sees Possible Climate Change On Mars (Science Daily)
Mars - Orbiter's Long Life Helps Scientists Track Changes on Mars (Mars Global Surveyor Team, NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory)
"...for three Mars summers in a row, deposits of frozen carbon dioxide near Mars' south pole have shrunk from the previous year's size, suggesting a climate change in progress."
Neptune - Suggestive correlations between the brightness of Neptune, solar variability, and Earth's temperature (AGU)
Neptune Moon Triton - MIT researcher finds evidence of global warming on Neptune's largest moon (MIT)
Pluto - Global Warming on Pluto Puzzles Scientists (Space.com)
Saturn - Hot shot of Saturn's 'hot spot' (BBC)
Saturn Moon Enceladus - Saturn moon delights and baffles (BBC)
The Anti 'Man-Made' Global Warming Resource
Hey, PopularTech
March 3, 2008 - 08:03 ET by Mica the Magnificentwhew! fantastic!
Thanks for the research!
1500-Year Climate Cycle
March 3, 2008 - 08:13 ET by PopularTechNo problem here is more...
The Physical Evidence of Earth's Unstoppable 1,500-Year Climate Cycle (National Center for Policy Analysis)
Carbon Dioxide Did Not End The Last Ice Age, Study Says (Science Daily)
Earth Cools In Persistent, 1,500-Year Rhythm, Say Columbia Scientists, Working From Sea Cores (Science Daily)
Global Warming Natural, May End Within 20 Years, Says Ohio State University Researcher (Science Daily)
Natural Climate Change May Be Larger Than Commonly Thought (Science Daily)
North Atlantic Warming Tied To Natural Variability (Science Daily)
Pacific Ocean Temperature Changes Point To Natural Climate Variability (Science Daily)
Solar cycle drives ocean temperatures, study says (USA Today)
Peer-Review Papers supporting the 1,500-Year Climate Cycle:
A 150,000-year climatic record from Antarctic ice
(Nature 316, 591 - 596, 15 August 1985)
- C. Lorius, C. Ritz, J. Jouzel, L. Merlivat, N. I. Barkov
A Pervasive Millennial-Scale Cycle in North Atlantic Holocene and Glacial Climates
(Science, Vol. 278. no. 5341, pp. 1257 - 1266, 14 November 1997)
- Gerard Bond, William Showers, Maziet Cheseby, Rusty Lotti, Peter Almasi, Peter deMenocal, Paul Priore, Heidi Cullen, Irka Hajdas, Georges Bonani
A Variable Sun Paces Millennial Climate
(Science, Vol. 294. no. 5546, pp. 1431 - 1433, 16 November 2001)
- Richard A. Kerr
Cyclic Variation and Solar Forcing of Holocene Climate in the Alaskan Subarctic
(Science, Vol. 301. no. 5641, pp. 1890 - 1893, 26 September 2003)
- Feng Sheng Hu, Darrell Kaufman, Sumiko Yoneji, David Nelson, Aldo Shemesh, Yongsong Huang, Jian Tian, Gerard Bond, Benjamin Clegg, Thomas Brown
Decadal to millennial cyclicity in varves and turbidites from the Arabian Sea: hypothesis of tidal origin
(Global and Planetary Change, Volume 34, Issues 3-4, Pages 313-325, November 2002)
- W. H. Bergera, U. von Rad
Late Holocene approximately 1500 yr climatic periodicities and their implications
(Geology, v. 26; no. 5; p. 471-473, May 1998)
- Ian D. Campbell, Celina Campbell, Michael J. Apps, Nathaniel W. Rutter, Andrew B. G. Bush
Possible solar origin of the 1,470-year glacial climate cycle demonstrated in a coupled model
(Nature 438, 208-211, 10 November 2005)
- Holger Braun, Marcus Christl, Stefan Rahmstorf, Andrey Ganopolski, Augusto Mangini, Claudia Kubatzki, Kurt Roth, Bernd Kromet
The 1,800-year oceanic tidal cycle: A possible cause of rapid climate change
(PNAS, vol. 97, no. 8, 3814-3819, April 11, 2000)
- Charles D. Keeling, Timothy P. Whorf
The origin of the 1500-year climate cycles in Holocene North-Atlantic records
(Climate of the Past Discussions, Volume 3, Issue 2, pp.679-692, 2007)
- M. Debret, V. Bout-Roumazeilles, F. Grousset, M. Desmet, J. F. McManus, N. Massei, D. Sebag, J.-R. Petit, Y. Copard, A. Trentesaux
Timing of abrupt climate change: A precise clock
(Geophysical Research Letters, Vol. 30, NO. 10, 1510, 2003)
- Stefan Rahmstorf
Timing of Millennial-Scale Climate Change in Antarctica and Greenland During the Last Glacial Period
(Science, Volume 291, Issue 5501, pp. 109-112, 2001)
- Thomas Blunier, Edward J. Brook
Widespread evidence of 1500 yr climate variability in North America during the past 14 000 yr
(Geology, v. 30, no. 5, p. 455-458, May 2002)
- André E. Viau, Konrad Gajewski, Philippe Fines, David E. Atkinson, Michael C. Sawada
The Anti 'Man-Made' Global Warming Resource
“Maunder Minimum” 1,500 yr cycle Landsberg, H. E. cherries
March 3, 2008 - 15:54 ET by Giles WinterbourneWhat seems to be an impressive list actually has been edited to promote a particular (and peculiar) POV that really doesn't hold up to the data available.
Plenty of peer-reviewed data in the field, published in reputable journals, that supports "..sunspot rhythms contribute only little to the total variance." http://www.springerl...
Though skeptics have some irrational attitude that IPCC reports are written to support a socialistic agenda, they do review the solar data and incorporate it into the total forcings. Look through P.T.'s list and compare it to the pages of cites in the WG report.
Peer Review Evidence of a Solar Origin to Climate Change
March 3, 2008 - 18:14 ET by PopularTechOh it holds up except when you attempt to manipulate it using irrelevant computer climate models or try to match it to biased temperature records. I have only posted this a million times:
A mechanism for sun-climate connection
(Geophysical Research Letters, Vol. 32, 2005)
- Sultan Hameed, Jae N. Lee
A Millennium Scale Sunspot Reconstruction: Evidence For an Unusually Active Sun Since the 1940's
(Physical Review Letters 91, 2003)
- Ilya G. Usoskin, Sami K. Solanki, Manfred Schüssler, Kalevi Mursula, Katja Alanko
Altitude variations of cosmic ray induced production of aerosols: Implications for global cloudiness and climate
(Journal of Geophysical Research, Vol. 107, No. A7, 1118, 2002)
- Fangqun Yu
Celestial Climate Driver: A Perspective from Four Billion Years of the Carbon Cycle
(Geoscience Canada, Volume 32, Number 1, March 2005)
- Ján Veizer
Celestial driver of Phanerozoic climate?
(GSA Volume 13, Issue 7, July 2003)
- Nir J. Shaviv, Ján Veizer
Cosmic rays and Earth's climate
(Space Science Review 93: 155-166, 2000)
- Henrik Svensmark
Cosmic rays and climate - The influence of cosmic rays on terrestrial clouds and global warming
(Astronomy & Geophysics, Volume 41 Issue 4 Page 4.18-4.22, August 2000)
- E Pallé Bagó, C J Butler
Cosmic Rays, Clouds, and Climate
(Space Science Reviews, v. 94, Issue 1/2, p. 215-230, 2000)
- Nigel Marsh, Henrik Svensmark
Cosmoclimatology: a new theory emerges
(Astronomy & Geophysics, Volume 48 Issue 1 Page 1.18-1.24, February 2007)
- Henrik Svensmark
Empirical evidence for a nonlinear effect of galactic cosmic rays on clouds
(Royal Society of London Proceedings Series A, Vol. 462, Issue 2068, 2006)
- R. Giles Harrison, David B. Stephenson
Evidence of Solar Variation in Tree-Ring-Based Climate Reconstructions
(Solar Physics, Volume 205, Number 2, Pages 403-417, February 2002)
- M.G. Ogurtsov , G.E. Kocharov, M. Lindholm, J. Meriläinen, M. Eronen, Yu.A. Nagovitsyn
Evidence for a physical linkage between galactic cosmic rays and regional climate time series
(Journal Advances in Space Research, February 2007)
- Charles A. Perrya
Formation of large NAT particles and denitrification in polar stratosphere: possible role of cosmic rays and effect of solar activity
(Atmos. Chem. Phys., 4, 2273-2283, 2004)
- F. Yu
Geophysical, archaeological, and historical evidence support a solar-output model for climate change
(PNAS, Vol. 97, No. 23, 12433-12438, November 7, 2000)
- Charles A. Perry, Kenneth J. Hsu
Has solar variability caused climate change that affected human culture?
(Advances in Space Research, Volume 40, Issue 7, Pages 1173-1180, 2007)
- Joan Feynmana
Influence of Cosmic Rays on Earth's Climate
(Physical Review Letters - November 30, 1998 - Volume 81, Issue 22, pp. 5027-5030)
- Henrik Svensmark
Is solar variability reflected in the Nile River?
(Journal of Geophysical Research, Vol. 111, D21114, 2006)
- Alexander Ruzmaikin, Joan Feynman, Yuk L. Yung
Length of the Solar Cycle: An Indicator of Solar Activity Closely Associated with Climate
(Science, Vol. 254. no. 5032, pp. 698 - 700, November 1991)
- E. Friis-Christensen, K. Lassen
Linkages between solar activity, climate predictability and water resource development
(Journal of the South African Institution of Civil Engineering, Vol 49 No 2, Pages 32–44, June 2007)
- W J R Alexander, F Bailey, D B Bredenkamp, A van der Merwe, N Willemse
Long-Period Cycles of the Sun's Activity Recorded in Direct Solar Data and Proxies
(Solar Physics, Volume 211, Numbers 1-2, December, 2002)
- M.G. Ogurtsov, Yu.A. Nagovitsyn, G.E. Kocharov, H. Jungner
Low cloud properties influenced by cosmic rays
(Phys. Rev. Lett., 85(23), 5004-5007, 2000)
- Nigel D Marsh, Henrik Svensmark
On climate response to changes in the cosmic ray flux and radiative budget
(Journal of Geophysical Research, Volume 110, A08105, 2005)
- Nir J. Shaviv
On the possible contribution of solar-cosmic factors to the global warming of XX century
(Bulletin of the Russian Academy of Sciences: Physics, Volume 71, Number 7, July, 2007)
- M. G. Ogurtsov
On the relationship of cosmic ray flux and precipitation
(Geophysical Research Letters, Vol. 28, No. 8, pp. 1527–1530, 2001)
- Dominic R. Kniveton and Martin C. Todd
Persistent Solar Influence on North Atlantic Climate During the Holocene
(Science, Vol. 294. no. 5549, pp. 2130 - 2136, 7 December 2001)
- Gerard Bond, Bernd Kromer, Juerg Beer, Raimund Muscheler, Michael N. Evans, William Showers, Sharon Hoffmann, Rusty Lotti-Bond, Irka Hajdas, Georges Bonani
Phenomenological solar contribution to the 1900–2000 global surface warming
(Geophysical Research Letters, Vol. 33, L05708, 2006)
- N. Scafetta, B. J. West
Phenomenological solar signature in 400 years of reconstructed Northern Hemisphere temperature record
(Geophysical Research Letters, Vol. 33, L17718, 2006)
- N. Scafetta, B. J. West
Reply to Lockwood and Fröhlich – The persistent role of the Sun in climate forcing
(Danish National Space Center Scientific Report, 3/2007)
- H. Svensmark, E.Friis-Christensen
Regional tropospheric responses to long-term solar activity variations
(Advances in Space Research, Volume 40, Issue 7, Pages 1167-1172, 2007)
- O.M. Raspopov, V.A. Dergachev, A.V. Kuzmin, O.V. Kozyreva, M.G. Ogurtsov, T. Kolström and E. Lopatin
Rhodes Fairbridge and the idea that the solar system regulates the Earth’s climate
(Journal of Coastal Research, SI 50, pp. 955-968, 2007)
- Richard Mackey
Solar correlates of Southern Hemisphere mid-latitude climate variability
(International Journal of Climatology, Volume 22, Issue 8 , Pages 901 - 915, 27 May 2002)
- Ronald E. Thresher
Solar Cycle Variability, Ozone, and Climate
(Science, Vol. 284. no. 5412, pp. 305 - 308, 9 April 1999)
- Drew Shindell, David Rind, Nambeth Balachandran, Judith Lean, Patrick Lonergan
Solar total irradiance variation and the global sea surface temperature record
(Journal of Geophysical Research, Vol. 96, NO. D2, Pages 2835–2844, 1991)
- George C. Reid
Solar Variability Over the Past Several Millennia
(Space Science Reviews, Volume 125, Issue 1-4, pp. 67-79, Friday, December 22, 2006)
- J. Beer, M. Vonmoos, R. Muscheler
Suggestive correlations between the brightness of Neptune, solar variability, and Earth's temperature
(Geophysical Research Letters, Vol. 34, L08203, 2007)
- H. B. Hammel, G. W. Lockwood
Surface warming by the solar cycle as revealed by the composite mean difference projection
(Geophysical Research Letters, Vol. 34, L14703, 2007)
- Charles D. Camp, Ka Kit Tung
The Antarctic climate anomaly and galactic cosmic rays
(physics/0612145v1, 2006)
- Henrik Svensmark
The link between the solar dynamo and climate - The evidence from a long mean air temperature series from Northern Ireland
(Irish Astronomical Journal, vol. 21, no. 3-4, p. 251-254, 09/1994)
- C.J. Butler, D.J. Johnston
Variations in Radiocarbon Concentration and Sunspot Activity
(Journal of Geophysical Research, Vol. 66, p.273, 01/1961)
- Stuiver, M.
Variations in the Earth's Orbit: Pacemaker of the Ice Ages
(Science, Vol. 194. no. 4270, pp. 1121 - 1132, 10 December 1976)
- J. D. Hays, John Imbrie, N. J. Shackleton
Variation of Cosmic Ray Flux and Global Cloud Coverage - a Missing Link in Solar-Climate Relationships
(Journal of Atmospheric and Solar-Terrestrial Physics, 59, 1225-1232, 1997)
- Henrik Svensmark, Eigil Friis-Christensen
Variations of solar coronal hole area and terrestrial lower tropospheric air temperature from 1979 to mid-1998: astronomical forcings of change in earth's climate?
(New Astronomy, Volume 4, Issue 8, Pages 563-579, January 2000)
- W. Soon, S. Baliunas, E. S. Posmentier, P. Okeke
Variable solar irradiance as a plausible agent for multidecadal variations in the Arctic-wide surface air temperature record of the past 130 years
(Geophysical Research Letters, Vol. 32, L16712, 2005)
- Willie W.-H. Soon
What do we really know about the Sun-climate connection?
(Advances in Space Research, Volume 20, Issue 4-5, p. 913-921, 1997)
- Eigil Friis-Christensen, Henrik Svensmark
Will We Face Global Warming in the Nearest Future?
(Geomagnetism i Aeronomia, Vol. 43, pp. 124-127, 2003)
- V. S. Bashkirtsev, G. P. Mashnich
The Anti 'Man-Made' Global Warming Resource
Radiative Forcing
March 3, 2008 - 19:38 ET by Giles Winterbourne"The human impact on climate during this era greatly
exceeds that due to known changes in natural processes, such as
solar changes and volcanic eruptions."
"The differences in radiative forcing estimates between the
present day and the start of the industrial era for solar irradiance
changes and volcanoes are both very small compared to the differences
in radiative forcing estimated to have resulted from human
activities. As a result, in today’s atmosphere, the radiative forcing
from human activities is much more important for current and
future climate change than the estimated radiative forcing from
changes in natural processes."
"This RF estimate is likely to be at least
fi ve times greater than that due to solar irradiance changes."
Chart on p 106 shows solar effect v. anthropogenic
_Changes in Atmospheric Constituents
and in Radiative Forcing _ chapter 2 IPCC
Derived from far more studies than the above list;
http://www.ipcc.ch/p...
What might be an interesting research piece would be to compare the sources cited in IPCC v. skeptic approved studies, and those cited by both; perhaps quality of methodology.
http://www.weatherquestions
March 3, 2008 - 20:11 ET by danbohttp://www.weatherquestions.com/Roy-Spencer-on-global-warming.htm#2000
http://www.weatherquestions.com/hockey_stick.jpg
http://www.weatherquestions.com/2000-years-of-global-temperatures.jpg
http://bp2.blogger.com/_BsNAUboeko4/RydUgpNreOI/AAAAAAAAAGs/WDvG-fRnvXw/s1600-h/Consensus.jpg
"There is a clear attempt to establish truth not by scientific methods but by perpetual repetition."
- Richard S. Lindzen, Ph.D. Professor of Meteorology, MIT
Changes in the Sun and Solar Climate Connections
March 4, 2008 - 10:42 ET by PopularTechIndependent Summary for Policymakers: IPCC Fourth Assessment Report (PDF) (Fraser Institute)
"1.1a Radiative Forcing (RF) is a modeling concept that attempts to summarize the climatic effect of diverse changes in the environment. It is not directly measured, nor is it related to the greenhouse effect, and overall remains poorly quantified.
- RF is a concept that arose from early climate studies using simple radiative-convective models. It is not directly measured. Instead it is calculated by simplified climate models under the assumption that a comparison can be made between equilibrium states of the climate. The climate does not reach equilibrium, but reflects transient responses to external and internal changes. The RF relationship to transient climate change is not straightforward. To evaluate the overall climate response associated with a forcing agent its time evolution and its spatial and vertical structure need to be taken into account. Further, RF alone cannot be used to assess the potential climate change associated with emissions, as it does not take into account the different atmospheric lifetimes of the forcing agents.
- RF itself is not directly related to the greenhouse effect as associated with greenhouse gases.
- Measurement of RF in Watts/square meter is a convention, but RF itself is not a measured physical quantity. Instead it is computed by assuming a linear relationship between certain climatic forcing agents and particular averages of temperature data. The various processes that it attempts to approximate are themselves poorly quantified.
The IPCC gives limited consideration to aerosols, solar activity and land-use change for explaining 20th century climate changes. Aerosols have a large potential impact on climate but their influence is poorly understood. Some evidence suggests that solar activity has increased over the 20th century to historically high levels. Land use changes are assumed by the IPCC to have only a minor role in explaining observed climate change.
1.4a New studies since the Third Assessment Report have improved empirical knowledge of climate responses to forcing by solar variability on annual to decadal time scales.
1.4b The Third Assessment Report reported that solar activity was exceptionally high in the 20th century in the context of the last 400 years. Since then, new reconstructions of solar activity have indicated modern solar output levels are high, and possibly exceptionally high, compared to the past 8,000 years.
1.4c Scientific understanding of solar variability remains low.
1.4e New evidence has emerged of indirect solar effects on climate.
- Although solar UV radiation represents only a small fraction of the energy from total irradiance, UV radiation is more variable by at least an order of magnitude. Since the Third Assessment Report, new studies have confirmed and advanced the plausibility of indirect effects on the climate system involving the modification of the stratosphere by solar UV irradiance variations (and possibly by solar-induced variations in the overlying mesosphere and lower thermosphere), with subsequent dynamical and radiative coupling to the troposphere.
- It is now well established from both empirical and model studies that solar cycle changes in UV radiation alter middle atmospheric ozone concentrations, temperatures and winds.
- When solar activity is high, the more complex magnetic configuration of the heliosphere reduces the flux of galactic cosmic rays in the Earths atmosphere. Various scenarios have been proposed whereby solar-induced galactic cosmic ray fluctuations might influence climate, possibly through low cloud formation.
- An unequivocal determination of specific mechanisms whether direct or indirect - that involve solar variability and climate has yet to be accomplished."
Thus Giles, reposting made up values (RF) from the IPCC and it's poor reporting of the solar influences on climate does nothing for your case.
The Anti 'Man-Made' Global Warming Resource
There is a new version of
March 4, 2008 - 20:20 ET by Giles WinterbourneThere is a new version of the Fraser Institute report (or retort) @ http://realclimate.org/FraserAnnotated.pdf
Annotated with information about the authors and clearing up some 'artful' language.
I've used portions of the three in teaching Research Methods.
It is an interesting exercise to compare the quantity of research backing the IPCC analysis to the citations in the Fraser report. Similarly with quantity and quality of the researchers/writers.
It didn't take you long to link to RealClimate
March 5, 2008 - 00:01 ET by PopularTechNow that you have linked to RealClimate we can expect more of the same in the future from you. FYI, their annotations are irrelevant and opinion based.
Quantity is irrelevant in science and quality is a matter of opinion but the writers of the fraser report have credentials that match the members of the IPCC report.
The Anti 'Man-Made' Global Warming Resource
Actually, you know from
March 5, 2008 - 02:18 ET by Giles WinterbourneActually, you know from science class that quality is fairly easy to quantify; reputation of publication, history of author, where cited, following further discussion.
Fraser is attempting to argue from authority without having established authority; revisit the bios of the authors.
That the IPCC reports utilize a far larger base of articles that have established quality in methodology compared to a far smaller sampling of research in the Fraser report would indicate that Fraser couldn't find as much evidence for their contentions. Seems sort of, shall we say, backwards?
"Actually, you know from
March 5, 2008 - 09:20 ET by danbo"Actually, you know from science class that quality is fairly easy to quantify; reputation of publication, history of author, where cited, following further discussion."
That explains a lot. You must have had Professor Truth as a science teacher.
In science we have the potential for 2 types of errors. Rejection of a true hypothesis and acceptance of a false hypothesis.
Statistics of the proper quality and design can help us "minimize" an error of rejecting a true hypothesis.
However accepting a false hypothesis is another thing. For that we have to keep studying. Every time we come up with the same answer we feel it's a little stronger.
However every observation or fact or study that disagrees casts serious doubt on the hypothesis. Though you and many Alarmist refuse to see those facts and studies. And as stated before. There's so much real live data and so many studies that indicate AGW is false you can float a fleet of super tankers through that hole.
Peer review "when done properly" can help weed out. But even your friends at the NERC debates had to begrudgling admit that peer review did not mean a study or that AGW was correct.
Remember the proceedures for IPCC state that the report from WGs can be changed to agree with SPM. That sir is not science. And you hold up IPCC as quality science.
"There is a clear attempt to establish truth not by scientific methods but by perpetual repetition."
- Richard S. Lindzen, Ph.D. Professor of Meteorology, MIT
"There's so much real live
March 5, 2008 - 09:55 ET by Giles Winterbourne"There's so much real live data and so many studies that indicate AGW is
false you can float a fleet of super tankers through that hole."
Which comes back to a main point of mine: Where is all that data? I'm being shown a few studies in a few areas that may indicate a different conclusion than the data in IPCC.
"
However every observation or fact or study that disagrees casts serious doubt on the hypothesis."
Not if the quality of the study can be shown to be wanting.
"Which comes back to a main
March 5, 2008 - 10:45 ET by danbo"Which comes back to a main point of mine: Where is all that data? I'm being shown a few studies in a few areas that may indicate a different conclusion than the data in IPCC. "
You're blind too. It's been shown over and over. You just chose not to see.
"There is a clear attempt to establish truth not by scientific methods but by perpetual repetition."
- Richard S. Lindzen, Ph.D. Professor of Meteorology, MIT
We've been shown a weak
March 5, 2008 - 21:13 ET by Giles WinterbourneWe've been shown a weak sauce of a few studies purporting to prove that solar irradiance is the major contributor; however, nothing in those studies shows a forcing larger or more consistent with temp rising than anthropogenic CO2.
Why does the IPCC report show solar at ~ 1/5 the effect of CO2? What studies show their calculations are wrong?
So when are you going to
March 6, 2008 - 09:24 ET by danboSo when are you going to prove AGWing? Haven't seen anything yet.
"There is a clear attempt to establish truth not by scientific methods but by perpetual repetition."
- Richard S. Lindzen, Ph.D. Professor of Meteorology, MIT
IPCC has the data and
March 6, 2008 - 20:46 ET by Giles WinterbourneIPCC has the data and proofs you seek. Given the consensus of scientists with actual cred, the agreement of several major scientific organizations, the clarity of analysis, if there were a question, then it would up to the skeptics to come up with as compelling a range of data and support for either disproving the temp is rising, or that solar winds or sunspots or whatever is the cause.
Sorry, but even PT's long lists pale in comparison to what is on offer, both in quality and quantity, in each chapter of the reports by IPCC.
And with the Fraser report, with unpublished writers, doesn't have quite the cred of the list of experts in the IPCC reports.
As the IPCC in it's own
March 6, 2008 - 21:59 ET by danboAs the IPCC in it's own procedures state that reports from the working groups can be altered to agree with the policy statement. One could hardly expect someone to imply that that is a hotbed of scientific honor.
As the supposed consensus has been falsified on at least 3 different occasions. Remember type 2 errors.
Where is your proof?
"There is a clear attempt to establish truth not by scientific methods but by perpetual repetition."
- Richard S. Lindzen, Ph.D. Professor of Meteorology, MIT
" As the supposed consensus
March 7, 2008 - 13:06 ET by Giles Winterbourne"
As the supposed consensus has been falsified on at least 3 different occasions."
Cites?
I'm assuming to some extent that you're referring to the Global Climate Coalition /Singer's position on revision of Chapter 8 of the 2nd report (http://www.sepp.org/...). It should be noted that the oft-cited June 13 editorial in Nature ends with:
"But it also deserves a more thoughtful and constructive assessment than one that merely seeks to impugn the motives of scientific participants by alleging that they are responding to political pressures." Nature June 13 1996
The procedure/process is @ http://www.ipcc.ch/i...
And it goes without saying that the newer studies and data continue to support the 2nd report - with higher levels of confidence. Coupled with the GCC deactivation partially due to members leaving to focus on carbon reduction, pretty strong evidence that the 'falsification' charge was mainly fabricated to toss some doubt on to, even then, settled science.
Quantity has nothing to do with Fact
March 5, 2008 - 11:12 ET by PopularTechThe volume of papers cited does not equal scientific fact nor being dishonest and claiming that the papers the IPCC cites includes all published papers on climate or that the ones they do are accurate.
The Fraser institute is providing scientific evidence and conclusions based on additional sources they cited and the interpretation of the same data the IPCC used.
The IPCC and RealClimate attempt to establish scienctific fact through an excessive use of words. That is not science.
The Anti 'Man-Made' Global Warming Resource
Re: "that the ones they do
March 5, 2008 - 20:56 ET by Giles WinterbourneRe: "that the ones they do are accurate"
Examples of inaccurate studies?
Piltdown "Mann" "There
March 6, 2008 - 09:44 ET by danboPiltdown "Mann"
"There is a clear attempt to establish truth not by scientific methods but by perpetual repetition."
- Richard S. Lindzen, Ph.D. Professor of Meteorology, MIT
nice try, But you
March 6, 2008 - 20:36 ET by Giles Winterbournenice try,
But you missed the fact that several studies of Mann, et al were done and it was found to be basically accurate. http://www.nytimes.c... http://www.sciam.com...
http://www.cgd.ucar....
And that there were 4 or 5 similar studies done with different data sets that came up with essentially the same conclusions. Look at the charts and descriptions in Chapter 6 of WG 1. http://www.ipcc.ch/p...
Add the fact that there are several more studies of the methodology of the M&M piece and there were more errors found in that work than in the work they were critiquing.
"The meeting was largely framed around science, but after the luncheon,
when an organizer made an announcement asking all of the scientists in
the large hall to move to the front for a group picture, 19 men did so." A. Revkin 'Cool View of Science at Meeting on Warming ' http://www.nytimes.c...
What more can I say but.
March 6, 2008 - 21:53 ET by danboWhat more can I say but. Wrong.....
"There is a clear attempt to establish truth not by scientific methods but by perpetual repetition."
- Richard S. Lindzen, Ph.D. Professor of Meteorology, MIT
Well, you could try being
March 7, 2008 - 13:12 ET by Giles WinterbourneWell, you could try being articulate. Instead of looking like a middle school kid whose argument consists of 'well, you're wrong because I say so.'
Like, maybe, what are the purported inaccuracies in the statement?
"excessive use of words.
March 5, 2008 - 21:03 ET by Giles Winterbourne"excessive use of words. That is not science."
Using language effectively to convey the information is critical. Less words doesn't equate to better science; clearer writing would, however, improve that movement of ideas through the system.
Which is one reason the Fraser Report has to be carefully parsed for meaning and intent. Sit down with it and S. I. Hayakawa
Say a middle school PHYSICS
March 3, 2008 - 16:06 ET by Sick-n-TiredSay a middle school PHYSICS teacher?? What about it professor truth?
"Controlling carbon is a bureaucrat's dream. If you control carbon, you control life," Richard Lindzen - March 2007.
Just more backup
March 2, 2008 - 21:19 ET by Cape Conservativeas to why the GW'rs have changed their wording to Climate Change, that should cover their "debate is over" behinds no matter which way the winds blow!
What I'd like to know is where is the great one? Is he clutching his Nobel Peace Prize hiding in a bomb shelter on his Tennessee acreage? You haven't heard a peep out of him since it's becoming more and more evident every day that he was, indeed, a master of deceit! I wish America had some wise ones such as the judge in England who refused to let Gore's lies be distributed to their children without disclosure.
AG's probably losing a lot of "green" in his carbon offsets company, too. Darn! It was a pretty good scam while it lasted!
I hope our Congress and the next president will reconsider before falling for any "human-caused" global weather schemes. Haven't we seen enough to convince any half-way intelligent person that it was all nothing but "snake oil" from the world's top snake oil salesman?
Cape Conservative, you just
March 2, 2008 - 22:43 ET by CJK51Cape Conservative, you just made a great observation: the corpulent Mr. Gore has been seen as frequently as Elvis and Bigfoot lately. And his disciples have ditched Global Warming for "Climate Change."
The growing amount of evidence that the debate is indeed NOT over begs the question: can Al be stripped of his Nobel Prize like Milli Vanilli was stripped of their Grammy? I think it's a great parallel since they're both frauds who have made money off a lot of chumps.
Then again, given recent recipients like Jimmy Carter and Yasser Arafat and now Al Gore, I guess that makes the Nobel Prize as equally pointless as the Grammy.
Not only does Al need to
March 2, 2008 - 23:31 ET by JerryNot only does Al need to get stripped of his Nobel, but the committee that awards the prize needs to be publicly flogged. AlGore, Jimmy Carter, Kofi Annon, Yassar Arafat... sheesh!
When asked if he went to war with Iraq to derail the impeachment vote: “I don’t think any serious person would believe that any President would do such a thing." - President Clinton (Dec 1998).
climate change
March 3, 2008 - 15:38 ET by Giles WinterbourneA bit of historical analysis would note that 3rd IPCC report uses Climate Change - It is a more accurate descriptor of all the variability that happens with anthropogenic forcing.
Boy you really do like to
March 3, 2008 - 16:05 ET by Sick-n-TiredBoy you really do like to drink the kool-aid and recite the talking points.
"Climate Change - It is a more accurate descriptor of all the variability that happens with anthropogenic forcing."
To correct you, they use climate change and all of its 'variability' to use it as a means to control peoples lives be it through taxation, carbon credits etc. If you were to substitute "of the earth and solar bodies" then your statement would be correct. By having 'anthropogenic forcing' in the sentence above you show your bias. If your statement was correct then what would be the active mechanism at work the 4,599,999,850 years prior to the last 150 responsible for climate change??
"Controlling carbon is a bureaucrat's dream. If you control carbon, you control life," Richard Lindzen - March 2007.
4,599,999,850 years prior and control peoples lives
March 3, 2008 - 17:25 ET by Giles Winterbourne4,599,999,850 years prior weren't anthropogenic. Perhaps some research on rate and type of change is in order before relinquishing your critical thinking skills to the skeptical camp.
'control peoples lives' has been brought up multiple times; without any points to prove it or to even point to that as a possibility; which makes it sound more like paranoia than rational thought.
Climate change? Has there
March 3, 2008 - 18:21 ET by bassndudeClimate change? Has there ever been an era without it? Call it what ever you want, but to belive that man can change a climate is the hight of arrogance, or ignorance. Take your pick.
Save a SeAL, club a liberal!!
So Now Prove the last 50 Years Were Caused by Man-Made CO2
March 3, 2008 - 18:19 ET by PopularTechPlease prove "Man-Made" CO2 has caused climate change in the last 50 years using the Scientific Method. Your belief of it to be true does not make it so nor does any other anecdotal evidence.
Socialists and Communists want to take down capitalism and controlling CO2 emmissions gives government control over everything - including your breathing. There is no paranoia, this is what environmentalists believe in, try talking to some - I have and it is not pretty.
The Anti 'Man-Made' Global Warming Resource
Actually, the data is
March 3, 2008 - 23:26 ET by Giles WinterbourneActually, the data is in:
A review of either the SPM or the WG reports will show extensive research and studies linking global warming (or climate change) to CO2, anthropogenic CO2. Not a belief, just follow the dots.
FYI: Jan cold: read http://www.columbia.... and parse that out to your meme.
Yeah, those horrid environmentalists, doing things like requiring corporations to clean up their years of environmental degredation. Advocating proper testing of chemicals before being introduced to the marketplace. Working to clean emissions on cars and factories.
nice little paper
March 4, 2008 - 00:04 ET by dans0622Until toward the end when he/she says "We are going to have to figure out a way to keep climate zones pretty much where they are now." Good luck with that! That's the kind of silliness that makes me dismiss any other conclusions that person might draw from whatever data he/she presents. That sort of statement is a far cry from cleaning up "environmental degredation" or the "testing of chemicals", etc., which is all fine by me.
Giles
March 4, 2008 - 00:11 ET by RESTLESS 1Look idiot, nobody on this side of the debate is against conservation or cleaner air and water. Make the companies as efficient and clean as possible. Just don't ask me to pay more taxes for it. Don't expect me to buy carbon credits, and damn sure don't send my tax money to foreign countries, via the u.n. We want the government to STAY OUT OF IT!!! Companies will, and have, deliver cleaner technologies if that is what the market place demands. No room for debate here. We say no to wealth redistribution.
nobody on this side of the debate is against conservation
March 4, 2008 - 00:32 ET by Giles Winterbourne"Socialists and Communists want to take down capitalism and controlling
CO2 emmissions gives government control over everything - including
your breathing. There is no paranoia, this is what environmentalists
believe in," comment above
Don't see your point buddy.
March 4, 2008 - 00:38 ET by RESTLESS 1Don't see your point buddy. Not seeing where the poster says conservation or clean air and water are bad. Just see them as against government control over CO2 emissions. I would have to agree. This is a wealth redistribution scheme and nothing else. If you willfully remain ignorant of this fact, despite convincing evidence on this thread and others, oh well. Do what you want, just leave me and my wallet out of it.
This is a wealth redistribution scheme and nothing else
March 4, 2008 - 00:50 ET by Giles WinterbourneMaybe not so much 'willfully remain(ing) ignorant' as not having seen any 'convincing evidence' other than unsourced assertations.
"To reinforce the appearance of uncertainty and disagreement, the denial
machine churned out white papers and "studies" (not empirical research,
but critiques of others' work)." The Truth About Denial http://www.newsweek....
Newsweek. Great source. So
March 4, 2008 - 00:57 ET by RESTLESS 1Newsweek. Great source. So they would have skeptics prove a negative? We don't believe that humans are the main cause of CO2 levels rising. Want to explain to me how to prove a negative? There have been papers that document the flaws in Mann's and other's tests. You have seen the links as have I. Believe what you want, but why must you not rest until all of us believe in this as you do. You can bang you head against the wall all you want, but the wall ain't moving.
Well, if you're an advocate
March 4, 2008 - 09:39 ET by Giles WinterbourneWell, if you're an advocate of solar irradiance, then support it with science. No need to 'prove a negative'.
Re: Mann, et al - follow that path a bit more and you'll find that there has been little support of the M&M studies of Mann et al. However, studies of their critique have been showing the weakness in their methodology and that the Mann et al studies were well done and valid.
And since their paper, there have been at least 4 or 5 more studies using different sets of data that come to the same conclusions. If you were to read the 4th IPCC report you'd see all of them overlapped on one graph.
Sun comes up, temperature
March 4, 2008 - 14:35 ET by RESTLESS 1Sun comes up, temperature rises, sun goes down, temperature falls. All the proof I need. If you need links, I will try to provide some when I get home, although I think others on this thread may have them covered.
Mann, et al has been thoroughly debunked
March 4, 2008 - 16:02 ET by PopularTechNot only has Mann, et al been thoroughly debunked but the reconstructions in no way support the original conclusions, they actually support the opposite - you can clearly see a MWP and a LIA in the reconstructions.
What is the ‘Hockey Stick’ Debate About? (PDF) (Ross McKitrick, Ph.D. Environmental Economist)
The Broken Stick (Financial Post, Canada)
The decay of the hockey stick (Climate Feedback)
The `Hockey Stick': A New Low in Climate Science (John L. Daly)
Lessons & Limits of Climate History: Was the 20th Century Climate Unusual? (PDF) (Sallie Baliunas, Ph.D. Astrophysics and Willie Soon, Ph.D. Astrophysics)
In Climate Debate, The 'Hockey Stick' Leads to a Face-Off (The Wall Street Journal)
NAS report "Surface Temperature Reconstructions for the last 200 Years" (National Academy of Sciences)
"With respect to methods, the committee is showing reservations concerning the methodology of Mann et al.. The committee notes explicitly on pages 91 and 111 that the method has no validation (CE) skill significantly different from zero. In the past, however, it has always been claimed that the method has a significant nonzero validation skill. Methods without a validation skill are usually considered useless.
[...] Thus, the public perception that the hockeystick as truthfully describing the temperature history was definitely false.
We find it disappointing that the method of Mann et al. was not sufficiently described in the original publication, and thus not peer-reviewed prior to publication, and that no serious efforts were made to allow independent researchers to check the performance of the methods and of the data used."
The IPCC, the "Hockey Stick" Curve, and the Illusion of Experience (PDF) (Ross McKitrick, Ph.D. Environmental Economist, Stephen McIntyre, B.Sc. Mathematics)
A 2000-year global temperature reconstruction based on non-treering proxies
(Energy & Environment 18(7-8): 1049-1058, 2007)
- C. Loehle
Comment on "The Spatial Extent of 20th-Century Warmth in the Context of the Past 1200 Years"
(Science, Vol. 316. no. 5833, p. 1844, 29 June 2007)
- Gerd Bürger
Corrections to the Mann et al (1998) Proxy Data Base and Northern Hemisphere Average Temperature Series
(Energy & Environment, Volume 14, Number 6, pp. 751-771, 1 November 2003)
- Stephen McIntyre, Ross McKitrick
Highly variable Northern Hemisphere temperatures reconstructed from low- and high-resolution proxy data
(Nature 433, 613-617, 10 February 2005)
- Anders Moberg, Dmitry M. Sonechkin, Karin Holmgren, Nina M. Datsenko and Wibjörn Karlén
Hockey sticks, principal components, and spurious significance
(Geophysical Research Letters, Vol. 32, L03710, 2005)
- Stephen McIntyre, Ross McKitrick
Proxy climatic and environmental changes of the past 1000 years
(Climate Research, Vol. 23: 89–110, 2003)
- Willie Soon, Sallie Baliunas
Reply to comment by Huybers on "Hockey sticks, principal components, and spurious significance"
(Geophysical Research Letters, Vol. 32, L20715, 2005)
- Stephen McIntyre, Ross McKitrick
Reply to comment by von Storch and Zorita on "Hockey sticks, principal components, and spurious significance"
(Geophysical Research Letters, Vol. 32, L20714, 2005)
- Stephen McIntyre, Ross McKitrick
The M&M Critique of the MBH98 Northern Hemisphere Climate Index: Update and Implications
(Energy & Environment, Volume 16, Number 1, pp. 69-100, January 2005)
- Stephen McIntyre, Ross McKitrick
The Anti 'Man-Made' Global Warming Resource
I'll behave... It's too
March 4, 2008 - 00:58 ET by danboI'll behave...
It's too easy.
"There is a clear attempt to establish truth not by scientific methods but by perpetual repetition."
- Richard S. Lindzen, Ph.D. Professor of Meteorology, MIT
Newsweek?Just curious
March 4, 2008 - 02:18 ET by well99How is that story on flushing a koran going?
Contradictions collapse
March 4, 2008 - 07:40 ET by UnsaneYou whine at us for quoting Popular Mechanics in a very snooty way for it not being a science journal...and then you turn around and reference the great science journal Newsweak?
Contradictions collapse.
Res tantum valet quantum vendi potest.
You've and others had moved
March 4, 2008 - 09:30 ET by Giles WinterbourneYou've and others had moved from the science of AGW to a political diatribe stating that AGW and environmental activists were communists and socialists out to get control of everyone and everything. The Newsweek report was a discussion of the corporate activities behind what can be charitably called the skeptic camp. There are plenty more.
Skeptic sycophants, again to be charitable, have constantly called out to study and learn and not be 'sheeple' and referred to scientists and politicians who have studied the data and came to a logical conclusion with a variety of name calling and ad hominem attacks. Also, when asked for support for any contention (such as the 'communist and socialist) there comes back - nothing; no prove, no logic, no support. That speaks volumes for the quality of debate.
I'm not seeing substantive discussion on the science. Not seeing critical discussion of how events are being portrayed iin the press. But I am seeing quick acceptance of any resource that supports your meme. That speaks volumes for the quality of discussion.
Hang on to any story that helps you feel good; jump on the bandwagon that gives you permission to ignore the real science; make sure you look through a good list of logical fallacies so you can make sure you've used them all.
Giles,
March 4, 2008 - 11:04 ET by AgnosticHonest question.
Are people trying to say that AGW is a science in and of itself? It maybe just the way the terms are being used so unilaterlally but it seems that instead of saying that AGW is the findings of actual sciences there seems to be this constant use of phrases that proclaim AGW as a science.
Environmentalism = Communism/Socialism
March 4, 2008 - 11:16 ET by PopularTechI haven't move from the science to politics but rather include what has been obviously linked. The IPCC is a political body as are the motives of the those promoting AGW. Thus a discussion of their political beliefs is required.
I have resources and then some. How much information I can compile it simple a matter of my free time.
Communism, Capitalism, and Environment (Luboš Motl, Ph.D. Theoretical Physicist)
Czech prez: Environmentalism is new communism (WorldNetDaily)
Earth Day Going from Red to Green (FrontPage Magazine)
"Might it be mere coincidence that Earth Day [April 22] falls on Lenin’s Birthday? No, this link was apparently intended from the beginning. Sincere environmentalists who objected that Lenin’s Soviet Union was a despoiler of the natural ecology of Russia, a dammer of rivers and polluter of ecosystems, have been ignored or silenced."
Global Warming as European Imperialism (The American Thinker)
Global Warming Equals Socialism (NewsMax)
Global Warming: Socialism’s Trojan Horse (LewRockwell)
Green and communist propaganda: comparison (Luboš Motl, Ph.D. Theoretical Physicist)
Socialism's Trojan horse (WorldNetDaily)
The only person who seem to be ignoring science is you since you long ago abandoned the scientific method for politically biased papers (IPCC) and unscientific positions, AGW.
The Anti 'Man-Made' Global Warming Resource
Huh?
March 5, 2008 - 03:03 ET by Unsaneguiltwobbler reincarnate, not once have I addressed the science - yet. And when I get the time to, you will regret it.
Now, what I DID point out - and you refused to address this - is your disdain for publications such as Popular Mechanics as it is not a "science journal", while at the same time you quote Newsweak, which, last I checked, was not a science journal.
Interestingly, you also whine that I am somehow jumping on bandwagons. Yet, later in the thread, you insist that the scientific method is subject to voting, democratic processes, and polls. (Never mind that the majority can also be dead wrong, as science has shown again and again and again.) Contradictions simply don't stop collapsing, much to your chagrin.
Unfortunately for you, I am more of a real scientist than you are. You are just pissed that I hold EVERYTHING to scrutiny and skepticism; that I am not just going to succomb to your dogma on your say-so. Keep right on whining.
Res tantum valet quantum vendi potest.
I will speak in Giles
March 5, 2008 - 09:32 ET by danboI will speak in Giles defense. He is nicer than Throat Pecker. (At least so far.)
We can't use PM, or an interview with an expert (I believe one of IPCC's experts, at that) in 21st Century Science and Technology.
But he can use a website generated by a cartoonist.
There's been some talk of Real Climate again. I see they finally realize that something of a climate problem happened in 535/6-40. (Yes Giles I do occasionally read RC. I'm just not impressed with it.) But it's significance is still above their heads.
"There is a clear attempt to establish truth not by scientific methods but by perpetual repetition."
- Richard S. Lindzen, Ph.D. Professor of Meteorology, MIT
read the thread,
March 5, 2008 - 10:12 ET by Giles Winterbourneread the thread, bunky
The PM article was cited as science - If you're going to argue science, use quality science resources, not something that works well as a toilet tank cover.
The Newsweek article was cited when someone brought up an AGW / environmentalist / communist/socialist connection. Since that thread had moved to political aspects, I used a magazine focusing on politics. If you're going to argue the quality of Newweek for political, then compare it to Newsmax, Frontpage, and the other sources cited for proof of that contention
"Denial" is not an argument
March 4, 2008 - 10:52 ET by PopularTechNow we are back to the denial charges, pathetic...
Global Warming Ad Hominem Attacks Show Alarmist Believers' Desperation (Heartland Institute)
Global Warming Denial = Holocaust Denial? (FrontPage Magazine)
Global Warming Smear Targets (David R. Legates, The Marshall Institute)
Hooey Denier Deniers (RealClearPolitics)
Ignorance Is Strength, Dissent Is Treason (The National Review)
Newsweek: Alarmed by Deniers (The American Spectator)
- Greenhouse Simplicities (Newsweek)
Newsweek: Global-Warming Skeptics Are Like Moon-Landing Deniers (Business and Media Institute)
Nuremberg-Style Trials Proposed For Global Warming Skeptics (US Senate Environment & Public Works Committee)
Public 'in denial' about climate change (The Daily Telegraph, UK)
Scientists threatened for 'climate denial' (The Daily Telegraph, UK)
The Anti 'Man-Made' Global Warming Resource
I should think it were
March 4, 2008 - 00:57 ET by NL207I should think it would be blatantly obvious that Socialists and Communists don't actually give a crap about conservation or a clean environment. The most polluted places on earth lie in Socialist jurisdictions. The leftist leadership are some of the most hypocritical "greens" on earth, pampering themselves with some of the largest carbon footprints on the planet.
Take of your blinders and look around yourself. Examples abound. Just as a spot comparison: How does the former Soviet Union dispose of former warship reactors? How does the US do it? How do the French do it? Give you a hint. There is only one of these powers that makes an effort to actually contain the leftover waste. The other two dump it into the ocean. And which two might that be?
Earth Day = Communist Lenin's Birthday
March 4, 2008 - 11:00 ET by PopularTechMy comment clearly talks about the political views of environmentalists and makes no comment about conservation.
But here is all the evidence I need to back up my point:
Earth Day Going from Red to Green (FrontPage Magazine)
"Might it be mere coincidence that Earth Day [April 22] falls on Lenin’s Birthday? No, this link was apparently intended from the beginning. Sincere environmentalists who objected that Lenin’s Soviet Union was a despoiler of the natural ecology of Russia, a dammer of rivers and polluter of ecosystems, have been ignored or silenced."
The Anti 'Man-Made' Global Warming Resource
Whoa we've got
March 4, 2008 - 00:28 ET by danboWhoa we've got http://www.columbia.edu/~jeh1/mailings/20080303_ColdWeather.pdf
There's a biggie. We've got two distortions for one. We have a map that's good for locating someplace on the map but has a strong polar distortion therefore presenting the poles as larger than they are.
Then we have a representation that uses a baseline of the mean from 1950-1980. A known cool period. And still shows cooling.
How many ways can we distort?
What will be the next revelation. That it's warmer than it was during the plistocene?
http://bp2.blogger.com/_BsNAUboeko4/RydUgpNreOI/AAAAAAAAAGs/WDvG-fRnvXw/s1600-h/Consensus.jpg
"There is a clear attempt to establish truth not by scientific methods but by perpetual repetition."
- Richard S. Lindzen, Ph.D. Professor of Meteorology, MIT
SPM and WG? IPCC
March 4, 2008 - 09:39 ET by danboSPM and WG?
IPCC procedures state this about reports. Section 4.2
"There is a clear attempt to establish truth not by scientific methods but by perpetual repetition."
- Richard S. Lindzen, Ph.D. Professor of Meteorology, MIT
The wonderful IPCC. An IPCC
March 4, 2008 - 10:03 ET by danboThe wonderful IPCC. An IPCC Expert speaks out.
"There is a clear attempt to establish truth not by scientific methods but by perpetual repetition."
- Richard S. Lindzen, Ph.D. Professor of Meteorology, MIT
danbo- - thanks for the IPPC post/critique
March 5, 2008 - 09:55 ET by JayTeeIt's not the guys opinion in the IPCC, but the actual stats on the Scientists and where they come from that's pretty daming of the IPCC representation.
It's one thing to throw out an acryonym IPCC, it's another to list the participants, degrees, and Country of origin.
Following the dots is not the Scientific Method
March 4, 2008 - 10:47 ET by PopularTechYour irrelevant paper on temperatures did not remotely meet the requirements of my request, I repeat:
Please prove "Man-Made" CO2 has caused climate change in the last 50 years using the Scientific Method. Your belief of it to be true does not make it so nor does any other anecdotal evidence such as temperature changes.
The Anti 'Man-Made' Global Warming Resource
flooding
March 2, 2008 - 21:44 ET by dans0622So, when there was such a loss of sea ice last year, did the level of the oceans rise? If so, how much? If not, why not? That's all I want to know.
flooding
March 2, 2008 - 23:09 ET by MissileMan742I wonder how many of the GW koolaid drinkers have ever observed that :
1. ice floats
2. when the ice floating in a volume of water melts, the water level goes down!
There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch!
yes
March 2, 2008 - 23:50 ET by dans0622You're right, of course. Not that I'm waiting for anyone in the media to point it out, but with all of that melting, you'd think that, according to the Algore premiss of coastal flooding as a result of warming, at least a small rise in sea level would have occurred. Alas, apparently not. Surprise, surprise.
ice floats
March 3, 2008 - 03:27 ET by Giles WinterbourneThere have been measurable increases in SL (http://sealevel.colo...). And remember, as water warms, as oceans have been measured (http://www.ncdc.noaa...), it expands.....
And, while the Arctic Ice cap floats (remember the Nautilus, or more recently - http://www.guardian....) , Greenland ice is on land.
Unless you have some source for citing lowering of SL...
Sea Level
March 3, 2008 - 08:08 ET by PopularTechObserved Changes in Sea Level (IPCC)
"Based on tide gauge data, the rate of global mean sea level rise during the 20th century is in the range 1.0 to 2.0 mm/yr. No significant acceleration in the rate of sea level rise during the 20th century has been detected."
The Anti 'Man-Made' Global Warming Resource
seas still rise
March 3, 2008 - 11:40 ET by Giles WinterbourneElipsis next time: "Based on tide gauge data, the rate of global mean sea level rise during the
20th century is in the range 1.0 to 2.0 mm/yr, with a central value of 1.5 mm/yr
(the central value should not be interpreted as a best estimate). (See Box
2 for the factors that influence sea level.) As Figure
6 indicates, the longest instrumental records (two or three centuries at most)
of local sea level come from tide gauges. Based on the very few long tide-gauge
records, the average rate of sea level rise has been larger during the 20th century
than during the 19th century. No significant acceleration in the rate of sea level
rise during the 20th century has been detected. This is not inconsistent with
model results due to the possibility of compensating factors and the limited data."
http://www.grida.no/...
Note also this is older data 'Climate
Change 2001:
Working Group I: The Scientific Basis'
It is also only one method of measuring sea level. So you are selectively quoting without attribution and not noting skipped sections. And cherrypicking data to prove your point, Between the two, the argument becomes weak sauce at best, and (also, at best) disingenous.
As I said before:
Just as I would for most any link presented to me as part of a research
paper. Issues when citing research are Authority - does the writer know
what they are talking about, Accuracy - is the information verifiable,
cited elsewhere, complete, and Bias - is there an agenda, either
explicit or implied.
So, when someone cites a single (or even 5 or 10) study after saying
'It's the sun', 'It's water vapor', or 'earth orbit', I'll look at who
published, where published, what discussion has followed the study, who
cites it in further research.
Even a 1 foot rise in sea
March 3, 2008 - 11:47 ET by bassndudeEven a 1 foot rise in sea level would be a non issue. Tidal rise and fall has moved everyone at least that far above current sea levels.
Save a SeAL, club a liberal!!
Giles. your site here.
March 3, 2008 - 12:06 ET by danboGiles. your site here. Contains this statement. "Concurrent tide gauge calibrations are used to estimate altimeter drift." If you continue with the link there is a tide guage corrective value. These are not purely satellite data. In light of my earlier post, points to the game playing going on.
"There is a clear attempt to establish truth not by scientific methods but by perpetual repetition."
- Richard S. Lindzen, Ph.D. Professor of Meteorology, MIT
Empirical Evidence Destroys Your Hysteria
March 3, 2008 - 13:49 ET by PopularTechI did not cherry pick, I specifically picked the empirical evidence for sea-level rise which clearly shows nothing to worry about. The relation to modeling results is meaningless as the models are meaningless to anyone but computer illiterates. The newer IPCC report takes this same empirical data and literally fabricates new data from models and math to further the hysteria.
Anyone with half a brain can check tidal gauge records and see nothing is going on.
You can be in denial of the tidal guage data all you want but it does not change the reality of it.
The Anti 'Man-Made' Global Warming Resource
Sea Level Rise Facts
March 3, 2008 - 14:12 ET by PopularTechSea Level Rise:
- Global mean sea level has risen only about 6 inches in the last 100 years. (Based on tidal gauge data) (IPCC)
- Global mean sea level rise is in the range of 1.0 to 2.0 mm/yr. (Based on tidal gauge data) (IPCC)
- No significant acceleration in the rate of sea level rise during the 20th century has been detected. (IPCC)
- 20 feet of sea level rise would take 3048-6096 years. (Based on tidal gauge data) (IPCC)
Conclusion = there is nothing to worry about.
The Anti 'Man-Made' Global Warming Resource
"For the 35 SRES scenarios,
March 3, 2008 - 17:32 ET by Giles Winterbourne"For the 35 SRES scenarios, we project a sea level rise of 0.09 to 0.88 m for
1990 to 2100, with a central value of 0.48 m. The central value gives an average
rate of 2.2 to 4.4 times the rate over the 20th century."
"The West Antarctic ice sheet (WAIS) has attracted special attention because
it contains enough ice to raise sea level by 6 m and because of suggestions
that instabilities associated with its being grounded below sea level may result
in rapid ice discharge when the surrounding ice shelves are weakened."
from the same source http://www.grida.no/...
Antarctica is not melting
March 3, 2008 - 18:22 ET by PopularTechAntarctica - Antarctic ice sheet thickening, researcher says (Associated Press)
Antarctica - Antarctic Sea Ice at Record High (The Reference Frame)
Antarctica - Antarctic Sea Ice Increases over Past Two Decades (Space.com)
Antarctica - Antarctic Temperatures Disagree With Climate Model Predictions (Science Daily)
Antarctica - East Antarctica's surface slowly rising (The New York Times)
Antarctica - First Evidence Of Under-ice Volcanic Eruption In Antarctica (Science Daily)
Antarctica - Ice Core 'Dipstick' Indicates West Antarctic Ice Has Thinned Less Than Believed (Science Daily)
Antarctica - Ice 'thickens' in West Antarctica (BBC)
Antarctica - No Major Changes Seen In Stability Of Antarctic Ice Sheet (Science Daily)
Antarctica - Pondering A Climate Conundrum In Antarctica; Unique, Distinct Cooling Trend Discovered On Earth's Southernmost Continent (Science Daily)
Antarctica - Researchers: Antarctica Ice Sheet Stable (ABC News)
Antarctica - Researchers find Antarctic ice is thickening (USA Today)
Antarctica - Satellites Show Overall Increases In Antarctic Sea Ice Cover (NASA)
Antarctica - Scientists Detect Thickening Of West Antarctic Ice Sheet (Science Daily)
Antarctica - Scientists Discover Undersea Volcano Off Antarctica (Science Daily)
Antarctica - Scientists Rule Out One Threat Of Antarctic Collapse (Science Daily)
Antarctica - Snowfall-Driven Growth in East Antarctic Ice Sheet Mitigates Recent Sea-Level Rise (Science)
Antarctica - Study: Antarctic Ice Sheet Is Thickening, Not Thinning (ABC News)
Antarctica - Tidal Motion Influences Antarctic Ice Sheet (Science Daily)
Antarctica - The Antarctic Ice Sheet is Growing Thicker (Not by Fire but by Ice)
Antarctica Ice Shelves - Antarctic Ice Shelf Retreats Happened Before (Science Daily)
The Anti 'Man-Made' Global Warming Resource
Pop Tech. I thought it
March 4, 2008 - 10:21 ET by danboPop Tech. I thought it would be interesting to look at the degrees and credentials of American lead authors to IPCC.
This is what I found.
PhD Economics, 2 of them.
Masters in Public Policy
PhD Anthropology
LLB
PhD Ecology
Unknow credentials 5 of them
PhD Unknown
PhD Management Science
MS Environmental Engineering
MS Aerospace engineering
PhD Environmental Engineering
PhD Physical Chemistry
PhD Applied Science
Phd Chemistry
MA Economics
PhD Natural Resources Economics.
of the 5 unknown, 1 is a professor of soil microbiology, 2 work for EPA one as the chief environmental economist .
This is not to say that any of these folks is not a worthy candidate to be a lead author for EPA. However their credentials are not any more impressive than the skeptics.
Source
"There is a clear attempt to establish truth not by scientific methods but by perpetual repetition."
- Richard S. Lindzen, Ph.D. Professor of Meteorology, MIT
Now back to satellite
March 3, 2008 - 10:28 ET by danbo"There is a clear attempt to establish truth not by scientific methods but by perpetual repetition."
- Richard S. Lindzen, Ph.D. Professor of Meteorology, MIT
nils
March 3, 2008 - 13:52 ET by Giles WinterbourneCiting an interview with no citations to the actual studies isn't really science research.
And that goes without even mentioning the publication, or the cred of the person being interviewed.
Now, if there were a peer-reviewed, published in a reputable journal, study of the insinuations on the IPCC science. Or mention of the specific studies that show there were 'no trend'. Then there would be some basis for a discussion.
But, so far most of the links are only a couple of steps above the hollow earth theory level of accuracy.
I'll translate that for you.
March 3, 2008 - 13:59 ET by danboI'll translate that for you. You have nothing.
"There is a clear attempt to establish truth not by scientific methods but by perpetual repetition."
- Richard S. Lindzen, Ph.D. Professor of Meteorology, MIT
Hey!
March 3, 2008 - 14:19 ET by Sick-n-TiredDanbo,
Looks like we have found the reincarnate of Professor Truth! Ha!
Just waiting for his reference and/or plug for realscience.org......
"Controlling carbon is a bureaucrat's dream. If you control carbon, you control life," Richard Lindzen - March 2007.
No critical thinking, please
March 4, 2008 - 07:43 ET by UnsaneSo, by hinging such great importance on peer-review, you admit that you have zero critical thinking skills of your own? That you have to wait until someone else approves the work somehow?
And you think you are a greater science mind than those of us Rightists on NB. Pathetic.
Res tantum valet quantum vendi potest.
Rising sea levels should be
March 3, 2008 - 11:01 ET by danboRising sea levels should be reflected in the length of day. LOD. Rising sea level should give a slightly slower rotation thus a longer LOD. Much as a figure skater can vary her rotation by pulling her arms in or slowing herself by holding her arms out.
What's LOD doing now.
"There is a clear attempt to establish truth not by scientific methods but by perpetual repetition."
- Richard S. Lindzen, Ph.D. Professor of Meteorology, MIT
Sheesh. You
March 2, 2008 - 21:58 ET by clarkfkSheesh. You anti-gorbal-warming people need to wise up. The temperatures are cooling because enough people world-wide have bought CFLs for their homes!
It's amazing, just as Prophet Gore predicted!
if global warming is dead what next scam will socialists sell
March 2, 2008 - 22:00 ET by lunaticcringeradiojust wondering what the next scam they are going to push. turning on your computer caused global warming, drinking bottled water, driving your car, bbq your food, just everything a socialist hated was a target and used as ammunition for global warming. so if global warming is dead what are they going to use now to sell socialism. they can't play the rich against the poor card cause most people realize in a free society poor people are pretty much where they are because of the decisions they made. they can't place the race card since america is the more racially equal society. hhhhhhmmmmm the socialists have really lost their doomsday toe hold.
i can't help but have this morbid desire to find out we have an asteroid coming at us and we wasted all this useless effort on global warming when we should have been looking and working to abate a giant terror rock coming at us.
lunaticcringeradio
Cover thy Butt
March 2, 2008 - 22:21 ET by dboIt's now been 20 years since James Hansen's 1988 appearance before congress and his doomsday scenarios. As of this point in time CO2 has gone from 348ppm to 382ppm (a 10% increase). Even by using his numbers, in the same period of time global temperatures have fallen 0.4C (0.72F). Even if much of the recent decrease is due to La Nina, why didn't Hansen's wonderful computer models predict this?? In addition, many scientists are now predicting that this La Nina could last 2-3 years, consistent with previous La Nina's. At this rate Hansen's 1971 prediction of 5-6 degrees of global cooling by 2020 could be more accurate than his 1988 predictions.
"the safe upper limit for atmospheric CO2 is no more than 350 ppm" James Hansen, December 07
This will slow the climate alarmists not at all.
March 2, 2008 - 23:24 ET by R D HelmAs they are not really interested in climate change so much as they are in turning us all in to compliant members of the proletariat.
No matter where the climate goes, we "evil capitalists" will be the reason for it. Count on it.
John McCain is a liberal. He said so himself.
It won't be long
March 3, 2008 - 00:17 ET by yruymiIn a few years, as global temperatures continue to fall(as expected) the alarmist media will be prognosticating the perils of the impending ice-age.
"...the alarmist media will
March 3, 2008 - 20:18 ET by MikeB"...the alarmist media will be prognosticating the perils of the impending ice-age." And their solution to the crisis will be to shut down the U.S. economy, just as it was with the 1970s global cooling scare and the 1990s global warming scare. No matter what the problem is, it can be solved by taxing the rich (as if they don't pay more than their share in the first place) and shutting down the U.S. economy.
"A communist is someone who reads Marx. An anti-communist is someone who understands Marx." Ronald Reagan
Global Cooling solution
March 3, 2008 - 00:28 ET by ApacheSo let's say the evidence points toward a long term global cooling instead of global warming. I suppose we shouldn't expect the GW alarmists to advocate releasing more CO2 in the air in an attempt to maintain the ideal temperature they selected for us?
Heck, yes! Build more oil
March 3, 2008 - 20:20 ET by MikeBHeck, yes! Build more oil refineries, drill in ANWR, build more coal fired electrical generation plants. We have to stop global cooling now, before it's too late and a bunch of commie-libs in NY and MA freeze to dea...oh, never mind.
"A communist is someone who reads Marx. An anti-communist is someone who understands Marx." Ronald Reagan
basic science
March 3, 2008 - 03:15 ET by Giles WinterbourneSince the 'science' at NewsBusters seems to follow some cant based on assuming AGW is a socialist plot to take away our freedoms, perhaps a few sources where the science is a bit more sound would help clear up some of the logical fallacies going on:
http://environmental...
http://www.skeptical...
http://sciencenow.sc...
http://www.metoffice...
http://www.nerc.ac.u...
Do they correct the biggest
March 3, 2008 - 04:49 ET by ckc1227Do they correct the biggest fallacy of all, the one that says man is causing global warming and we're all going to die if the temperature warms again just like it has done several times in the past?
"Pig and elephant DNA just won't splice"
Perhaps a Few Sources where the Scientific Method is still used
March 3, 2008 - 08:05 ET by PopularTechClimate Audit (Stephen McIntyre, B.Sc. Mathematics, Canada)
ICECAP (International Climate and Environmental Change Assessment Project, USA)
Junk Science (Steve Milloy, B.A. Natural Sciences, M.S. Health Sciences, USA)
The Reference Frame (Luboš Motl, Ph.D. Theoretical Physicist, Czech Republic)
Watts Up With That? (Anthony Watts, Meteorologist, USA)
- SurfaceStations.org
World Climate Report (Patrick J. Michaels, Ph.D. Ecological Climatology, USA)
Climate Police (Joseph Conklin, M.S. Meteorology, USA)
Climate Science (Roger A. Pielke, Ph.D. Meteorology, USA)
Climate Skeptic (USA)
CO2 Science (Center for the Study of Carbon Dioxide and Global Change, USA)
Comment & Information on Climate Change (Robert (Bob) M. Carter, B.Sc. Geology, Ph.D. Paleontology, Australia)
EcoMyths (Graham Smith, Associate Professor of Geography, University of Western Ontario, Canada)
EnvironmentNC (John Locke Foundation, USA)
Facts on Energy (Institute for Energy Research, USA)
Friends of Science (Canada)
Global Warming.org (The Cooler Heads Coalition, USA)
Global Warming and the Climate (Norway)
Global Warming Debunking News and Views (Oregon Institute of Science and Medicine, USA)
- Global Warming Petition Project
Global Warming Heartland (The Heartland Institute, USA)
Global Warming Hyperbole (USA)
Global Warming Hysteria (UK)
Global Warming Information Center (National Center for Public Policy Research, USA)
Global Warming Skeptics (USA)
Greenie Watch (John J. Ray, Ph.D. Psychology, Mensa Member, Australia)
Johnston's Archive - Environmental Topics (Wm. Robert Johnston, B.A. Astronomy, M.S. Physics, USA)
Models, Methods, Software
Not by Fire but by Ice (USA)
Number Watch (John Brignell, Ph.D. Professor Emeritus Electronics & Computer Science, UK)
Planet Gore (National Review Online, USA)
Ponder the Maunder (USA)
Prometheus - The Science Policy blog (Center for Science and Technology Policy Research, University of Colorado, USA)
US Senate Environment & Public Works Committee (USA)
Ross McKitrick (Ross McKitrick, Ph.D. Economics, Canada)
Science & Environmental Policy Project (S. Fred Singer, Ph.D. Physics, USA)
Science & Public Policy Institute (USA)
Science is Broken (Gary Novak, M.S. Microbiology, USA)
Spiked - Environment (UK)
Still Waiting for Greenhouse (Australia)
TCS Daily - Science Roundtable (USA)
The Association of British Drivers - Environment (UK)
- Global Warming Links
The Global Warming Challenge (J. Scott Armstrong, B.A. Applied Science, B.S. Industrial Engineering, Ph.D. MIT, USA)
The Global Warming Hoax (USA)
The New Zealand Climate Science Coalition (New Zealand)
The Politics and Environment Blog (Jennifer Marohasy, Ph.D. Biology, Australia)
Warwick Hughes - Free Lance Science Research (Australia)
- Errors in IPCC Climate Science Blog
The Anti 'Man-Made' Global Warming Resource
Let's see we have in link
March 3, 2008 - 11:25 ET by danboLet's see we have in link one, someone who is a PhD on the ecological effect of climate change. Paid by an activist organization. No crises no job. And a worthless PhD.
Link 2, Tells us about skeptic arguments. Missed mine. Brought to us by someone with some science back ground an undergraduate in physics. But who describes himself as " This site was created by John Cook. I'm not a climatologist or a scientist but a self employed cartoonist and web programmer by trade. " A brief look at his arguments are definately not a slam dunk.
Link 3 is an article in something called Science Now Daily News. Startes with the assumption of AGW. Which is a really big assumption. And then tells us how bad it will interact with real pollutants. Of course no AGW what do you have?
He did recognize one thing that most warmers miss. That if AGW were real there would be fewer winds to blow out air pollution. As much extreme weather is the interaction between the poles and tropics, there would be less wind. But aren't we warned weather will get worse. More wind. More hurricanes.
Link 4 is from a UK group that seems to be payed to do climate change research. Exxon paid people are lying. Not people payed to prove AGW. Shall we say there is a lot of debate about what they say. Except to warmers.
Link 5. The NERC debates? You have got to be kidding. I remember when the sceptics showed up. This was not a high mark for Thorpe. His contention that he wanted sceptics to come forward is interesting. As I recall he asked people at large to ask their questions. Thinking people with no background would ask questions that he could easily dance around. The sceptics found out and stepped up.
If NERC was doing so well why did they limit the sceptics ability to ask questions. Was it because they had too many questions as they claimed. Or was it they they couldn't dance around and give BS answers. Then NERC quit after about 6 weeks.Took their football and went home. Now they claim they won? That's a joke. A PR debacle is closer.
If you read the entire transcript. Which I doubt they'll give. You'll find me in there protesting the silencing the sceptics.
"There is a clear attempt to establish truth not by scientific methods but by perpetual repetition."
- Richard S. Lindzen, Ph.D. Professor of Meteorology, MIT
sources
March 3, 2008 - 11:50 ET by Giles WinterbourneYup, not the original data and studies.
However, the orig work is locatable though IPCC citations, and between the quality of those studies, the further use of those studies, and the quantity pointing to the same conclusions, it is pretty easy to disprove the skeptical POV.
I did make a choice to link to sites that walk through the lack of data supporting those skeptical positions rather than recreate the the arguments. I could also point out 5 (at least) other sites that have done that work. Any of which do a better job of explaining the science behind IPCC summaries than the dubious P.T. list items.
Giles the core of the issue
March 3, 2008 - 12:44 ET by danboGiles the core of the issue is you want to believe who you want to believe. And only believe data or studies you want to believe. Go for it. Walk everywhere if you wish.
IPCC is not god. Many of IPCC's own experts disagree with with IPCC.
You have been shown on many occasions the other side of the issue. You don't want to or have to agree.
But there are many sites that also point to the misinformation of AGW.
But apparently only climate alarmism is allowed in your world.
I'm sorry if we won't jump in the BS with you.
BTW You haven't disproven The other side except in your own delusion.
"There is a clear attempt to establish truth not by scientific methods but by perpetual repetition."
- Richard S. Lindzen, Ph.D. Professor of Meteorology, MIT
If you apply some rigorous
March 3, 2008 - 13:18 ET by Giles WinterbourneIf you apply some rigorous intellectual honesty and study the research you don't need to follow a 'belief' that there is 'the other side of the issue'.
There is a reason (actually several thousand) that the consensus level is greater than 90% on the side of science supporting AGW. Just as there is a greater precentage of general public agreeing with that scientific evidence.
'disagree' can also be about a single, specific point; i.e. when will a tipping point be reached. You are implying that there is total disagreement about the basics.
It might be worth trying to follow Buckley's level of intellectual rigor rather than tossing out 'who do you work for'. But then, that would probably open up your thinking.
There is NO Consensus on "Man-Made" Global Warming
March 3, 2008 - 14:45 ET by PopularTechGiles, please stop lying and spreading your propaganda. There is no consensus on "Man-Made" Global Warming:
NO 'Consensus' on "Man-Made" Global Warming
19,000 Scientists declare that "man-made" global warming is a lie with no scientific basis whatsoever (OISM)
4000 Scientists sign 'The Heidelberg Appeal' (Science & Environmental Policy Project)
500 Scientists with Documented Doubts of Man-Made Global Warming Scares (Heartland Institute)
400 Prominent Scientists Disputed Man-Made Global Warming Claims in 2007 (US Senate Committee on Environment & Public Works)
150 Scientists, Economists and Theologians sign An Open Letter to the Signers of 'Climate Change: An Evangelical Call to Action' (ISA)
105 Scientists sign 'The Leipzig Declaration on Global Climate Change' (Science & Environmental Policy Project)
100 Scientists sign an 'Open Letter to the Secretary-General of the United Nations' (National Post, Canada)
77 Skeptical Scientists (Business and Media Institute)
60 Scientists call on Harper to revisit the science of global warming (Financial Post, Canada)
47 Scientists sign the 'Statement by Atmospheric Scientists on Greenhouse Warming' (Science & Environmental Policy Project)
41 Scientists debunk global warming alert (The Daily Telegraph, UK)
35 Skeptical Scientists, 'The Deniers' (National Post, Canada)
Really Giles the public agrees? More lies from Giles.
71% think Global Warming has nothing to do with Man’s actions (Pocket Issue)
66% of Americans do not believe Global Warming can be stopped (Rasmussen Reports)
56% of Americans do not believe Global Warming is caused by human activities (Rasmussen Reports)
56% of British Aren’t Buying Global Warming Hooey (NewsBusters)
Little Consensus on Global Warming (The Pew Research Center)
"Americans generally agree that the earth is getting warmer, but there is less consensus about the cause of global warming or what should be done about it. Roughly four-in-ten (41%) believe human activity such as burning fossil fuels is causing global warming, but just as many say either that warming has been caused by natural patterns in the earth's environment (21%), or that there is no solid evidence of global warming (20%)."
Only 24% Consider Al Gore Global Warming Expert (Rasmussen Reports)
Poll: Many See No Need to Worry About Warming (ABC News)
The Anti 'Man-Made' Global Warming Resource
So Gile's because you
March 3, 2008 - 13:46 ET by danboSo Gile's because you believe in the unscientific idea of a concensus. I'm not going to throw away a number of years of training and knowledge of research principles, scientific methodology and knowledge of raw data and facts. Just as thousands of scientist with more training than I are saying to you and anthropogenic scare mongering.
You don't have 90% agreeing with you and you can't prove it. But. it's irrelevant anyway. Science is not about votes. It's about the truth. All it takes is one man (or woman) with the truth to shoot the hell out of all the incorrect assertions and claims.
The scare mongering of AGW has so many holes shot through it you could float a fleet of super tankers through it.
BTW Giles I have applied intellectual honesty, and research, to this issue. That's why I'm here. You'd rather I be stupid and agree with you.
"There is a clear attempt to establish truth not by scientific methods but by perpetual repetition."
- Richard S. Lindzen, Ph.D. Professor of Meteorology, MIT
If you apply some rigorous
March 3, 2008 - 13:43 ET by NL207If you apply some rigorous intellectual honesty and study ....
Try out your own advice.
There you go with
March 3, 2008 - 20:33 ET by MikeBThere you go with that "consensus" crap again. Consensus doesn't prove anything, nor does it mean anything in scientific circles.
In the middle ages, the scientific consensus was that the earth was flat.
In the 1700s and later, the consensus in the medical community was that leeches were a cure for what ailed you and that syphilis was caused by a poison. The established scientific community poo-pooed the germ theory of disease.
Don't forget the scientific consensus that maggots developed from spoiled meat, or that diseases were caused by evil spirits or bad air. Wasn't it also scientific consensus that if a human traveled faster than 10 mph, he would explode?
We really don't give a care what the "scientific consensus" is, what is the evidence pro and con? And, when one side of an argument starts throwing a tantrum declaring the "debate is over", as far as I am concerned, they've lost the argument.
"A communist is someone who reads Marx. An anti-communist is someone who understands Marx." Ronald Reagan
Consensus
March 4, 2008 - 07:50 ET by UnsaneThere is a reason (actually several thousand) that the consensus level is greater than 90% on the side of science supporting AGW. Just as there is a greater precentage of general public agreeing with that scientific evidence. Wow! I NEVER knew that the scientific method was so...so...democratic! We put up everything to a vote in science?
So, did we have to wait for a vote to approve of such things as the Copernican model, Principia Mathematica or Kepler's Laws of Planetary Motion, just to name a select few?
Consensus is the creature of politics and parliaments, NOT science, my Socialist NB denizen. And millions of people thought in the past that eclipses and comets were bad omens - were they somehow right because people believed such phenomena to be portents?
(For you old-timers, I think guiltwobbler has returned. Now, if you'll excuse me, now that I have two red and two green dark chocolate M&Ms left, rather than add them for the total number of M&Ms left, I'm going to go out and get a "consensus" of what 2+2 should equal.)
Res tantum valet quantum vendi potest.
How much are you getting
March 3, 2008 - 12:30 ET by Jack BauerHow much are you getting paid by BIG GOVERNMENT GRANT to put forward these absurd talking points?
Personally, I don't mind you being a sheeple, in thrall to the "establishment," but I do object that I have pay hard earned taxes to subsidize the billions in poured into this junk-science scam., so they can pay people like you.
Please desist, we see through your paid advocacy.
Another nmindless list
March 3, 2008 - 13:44 ET by NL207Another mindless list publisher who lacks the knowledge, ability or intestinal fortitude to get into a real debate on the topic.
The Skeptical Point of View
March 3, 2008 - 13:41 ET by PopularTechThe Case for Skepticism on Global Warming (Michael Crichton, A.B. Anthropology, M.D. Harvard)
Climate chaos? Don't believe it (Christopher Monckton, The Daily Telegraph, UK)
Climate of Fear (Richard S. Lindzen, Ph.D. Professor of Meteorology, MIT)
CO2: The Greatest Scientific Scandal of Our Time (PDF) (Zbigniew Jaworowski, M.D. Ph.D. D.Sc.)
Global Warming Myths (Friends of Science)
If "global warming" is real, what could be causing it? (Junk Science)
(AGW): Some pro and con comments (John K. Sutherland, Ph.D. Geology, University of Manchester, UK)
The Global Warming Myth? (John Stossel, 20/20)
The Global Warming Folly (Zbigniew Jaworowski, M.D., Ph.O., D.Sc.)
The Myth of Dangerous Human Caused Climate Change (Robert (Bob) M. Carter, B.Sc. Geology, Ph.D. Paleontology)
Top 10 'Global-Warming' Myths (Human Events)
Wrong Problem, Wrong Solution (Christopher Monckton, The Daily Telegraph, UK)
The Anti 'Man-Made' Global Warming Resource
»→ Dylan was right
March 3, 2008 - 05:35 ET by Cool Arrow"You don't need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows" - Robert Allen Zimmerman (Apologies to those who object to the mention of his middle name)
Guess you don't need a climatologist to know it's damned cold outside either.
♣ a seal
A tale of two houses
March 3, 2008 - 09:58 ET by WildBillHouse #1 A 20 room mansion (not including 8 bathrooms) heated by natural gas. Add on a pool (and a pool house) and a separate guest house, all heated by gas. In one month this residence consumes more energy than the average American household does in a year. The average bill for electricity and natural gas runs over $2400. In natural gas alone, this property consumes more than 12 times the national average for an American home. This house is not situated in the Northern or Midwestern "Snow Belt" area. It is in the South.
House # 2 Designed by an architecture professor at a leading national university. This house incorporates every "green" feature current home construction can provide. The house is 4,000 square feet (4 bedrooms) and is nestled on a high prairie in the American southwest. A central closet in the house holds geothermal heat-pumps drawing ground water through pipes sunk 300 feet into the ground. The water (usually 67 degrees F.) heats the house in the winter and cools it in the summer. The system uses no fossil fuels such as oil or natural gas and it consumes one-quarter of the electricity required for a conventional heating/cooling system. Rainwater from the roof is collected and funneled into a 25,000 gallon underground cistern. Wastewater from showers, sinks and toilets goes into underground purifying tanks and then into the cistern. The collected water then irrigates the land surrounding the house. Surrounding flowers and shrubs native to the area enable the property to blend into the surrounding rural landscape.
HOUSE # 1 is outside of Nashville , Tennessee ; it is the abode of the "environmentalist" Al Gore .
HOUSE # 2 is on a ranch near Crawford , Texas :
It is the residence of the President of the United States , George W. Bush .
AlGore the great, hypocrite and AGW idiot for life.
"Congressmen who willfully take actions during wartime that damage morale and undermine the military are saboteurs and should be arrested, exiled, or hanged." -Abraham Lincoln
Over 400 World Wide Prominent Scientists Disputed Man-Made Globa
March 3, 2008 - 11:10 ET by DrColesOver 400 World Wide Prominent Scientists Disputed Man-Made Global
Warming Claims in 2007. See http://tinyurl.com/2dv6nz
Dr.
March 3, 2008 - 11:25 ET by Noel SheppardDr.,
Hmmm. I hadn't heard about that http://www.newsbuste...
:-) ns
A Junior High Student Predicted This.
March 3, 2008 - 11:27 ET by coffee260NB--I remember reading on this blog about a young child who had predicted this very scenario. Do you know what I'm talking about? And what was the titled of that post?
coffee
March 3, 2008 - 11:36 ET by Noel Sheppardcoffee,
Kristen Bynres -- http://newsbusters.o...
There are many scientists I am in regular contact with who predicted the end of El Nino and a shift to La Nina that would cause the cooling we've seen across the globe. And, they didn't need climate modelling computers. :-) ns
Thanks NS
March 3, 2008 - 12:03 ET by coffee260NS--
She's sharp. Her predictions were right on. She nailed the 30 year cycles starting in 1976 and documents the related shifts fairly well. And she doesn't even rely on computer models.
Here's al, hiding with hollywooders
March 3, 2008 - 14:53 ET by metroxFirst,
here's today's write up:
http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=25286&page=1#c1
This past weekend:
http://blog.wired.com/business/2008/03/al-gore-makes-i.html
more:
http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5hTTPP_0xIhrRmq2-aCf76Eed_sAg
Today's WSJ Blog
http://blogs.wsj.com/environmentalcapital/2008/03/03/heating-up-the-global-warming-debate-if-there-still-is-one/?mod=googlenews_wsj
Gore, Hansen and Schmidt were invited.
March 3, 2008 - 17:30 ET by danboAccording to, Al Gore, Hansen and Schmidt were invited to address the International Climate Change Conference in new York. Al Gore's $200,000 speaking fee and expences were met. However all three declined.
"There is a clear attempt to establish truth not by scientific methods but by perpetual repetition."
- Richard S. Lindzen, Ph.D. Professor of Meteorology, MIT