Here's something you don't see every day: a Republican publicly chastising one of the leading conservative voices in the nation.
After all, it's one thing for liberal media members across the fruited plain to bash talk radio's Rush Limbaugh.
But former Senator and presidential candidate Bob Dole?
Well, hold on to your seats, for Politico reported late Monday (h/t NBer coffee260, emphasis added throughout):
Bob Dole, the former Senate Republican leader, wrote an insistent letter to Rush Limbaugh on Monday and suggested that for the good of the party, the conservative talk-show host should stop his strafing of Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.).
[...]
In a letter released Monday evening by McCain's campaign, Dole strongly defended the senator’s conservative credentials, noting that his voting record is opposed to abortion and supportive of gun-owner rights.
[...]
The letter begins simply “Rush.”
“I have not seen you in a long time but I do hear you frequently and I know that you have serious reservations about Senator McCain,” Dole wrote.
“McCain is a friend and I proudly wore his P.O.W. bracelet bearing his name while he was still a guest at the ‘Hanoi Hilton.’ I believe our major candidates are mainstream conservatives and that our nominee will address our concerns by keeping taxes low, reducing corporate taxes, protecting and assisting the vulnerable, strengthening our traditional values, and above all, keeping America strong militarily, whatever the cost.“Whoever wins the Republican nomination will need your enthusiastic support,” Dole concludes. “Two terms for the Clintons are enough."
For what it's worth, tipster coffee260 claims that Politico left out something important from Dole's letter to Rush. For some background, according to Politico:
In a bill of particulars numbered 1 through 8, Dole wrote that McCain has a “Consistent pro-life record,” was a “Strong advocate for strict constructionist judges,” “Supported voluntary school prayer,” supported a balanced-budget amendment, was a strong advocate for cutting spending, consistently defended Second Amendment (gun-owner) rights, “opposed ‘Hillary Care,’ ” and was “Probably the Senate's strongest advocate for strong national defense.”
This from coffee260:
1 through 8? Or is there a number 9?
I was just listening to The Mark Levin show and Rush called in and read off that list. He included the number 9. The Politico didn't. What do you think would be the reason? Could it be because number 9 reflected badly on McCain? Here's number 9. You decide.
Stay tuned.9. Of course he's cast many votes since I left. I disagree totally with McCain/Feingold.
—Noel Sheppard is the Associate Editor of NewsBusters. Follow him at Facebook and Twitter.




















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Of course Bob Dole would do
February 5, 2008 - 10:41 ET by mattmOf course Bob Dole would do that. He's another Nixon/Ford Republicrat.
How did Bob do in 1996? 38% of the vote. If anyone should shut up, Bob, it's you and your fellow loser RINOs.
Bob Dole is/was useless
February 5, 2008 - 10:59 ET by jefflebowskiWhy can't the Republican (when I say Republican these days it doesn't necessarily mean Conservative) hierarchy understand that they will never elect a moderate..and that's being extremely generous to McPain...President? Romney is the best choice to come anywhere near being conservative. I don't like Dole, his carpet-bagging wife or any of their RINO ilk!!!
Well, now wait a minute.
February 5, 2008 - 11:01 ET by WhoIsJohnGaltWell, now wait a minute. Although he was not a great candidate, his loss, as well as 41's loss in '92 were more due to Ross Perot siphoning off his votes rather than the strength of the left's canididate-it would have been very close indeed. Most of Perot's voters came from the right. We never would have had to deal with the Clinton's if it were not for Perot. And if I could kick my own ass for voting for Perot, I would.
And I don't agree with Dole's support of McCain now.
And just to be a noodge...Dole got nearly 41%.
Dole was way better of a
February 5, 2008 - 11:25 ET by mattmDole was way better of a candidate than McCain. But if he's going to tell people who oppose McCain to shut up, then he can go kiss a donkey...
It wasn't Perot in 1996 that siphoned off votes. If the GOP would have put a real conservative up against Clinton, and actually ran a strong campaign against him, they could easily have won.
Give us another Dole/Ford/McCain, and you can say hello to President Hillary (or B. Hussein Osama)... this is why the media love him and are promoting him and Dems are crossing over in certain primaries (like Florida) and voting for him.
Historically speaking...
February 5, 2008 - 11:37 ET by BritcomBob Dole still would not have won. A Senator has never defeated a former Governor in modern times.
And in 1996 Clinton...
February 5, 2008 - 11:41 ET by Prester John...went from 43% to 49% which means his margin in the popular vote went from 5% (43-38) to 8% (49-41).
UPDATE
February 5, 2008 - 12:14 ET by mattmRUSH IS SAYING THAT THE MSM ASSESSMENT OF DOLE'S COMMUNICATION WITH HIM WAS WRONG...
...should have known the MSM would get it wrong.
Well, that does it, I'm
February 5, 2008 - 10:47 ET by motherbeltWell, that does it, I'm sure. Rush will be on the radion today, whipping himself, and promising to promote McCain from now on.
PS: I wonder how much he could get for this letter?
Just kidding....I don't think he'd do that.
Rush should be whipping
February 5, 2008 - 11:36 ET by dscottRush should be whipping George Stephanopoulos and the rest of the Clinton operatives in the MSM, like these to name a few who participated in manipulating the political coverage to Hillary's benefit:
Kaplin - CNN
Harold Ickies
Joe Klein
James Carville
Paul Begala
Susan Estridge
Rebecca Traister
Don't GET Mad, GET EVEN!
Lord Sidious / Darth Vader 2008 Long Live the Empire! Come to the Dark Side, it is your Destiny.
as iff Rush gives a damn...
February 5, 2008 - 12:19 ET by TruthMongeris that really Dole pictured up there? Or is that McCain? Would it really matter:)?
Conservatives don't need the presidency, Bob - we don't need RINO's, and we don't even need the US - we just need conservatives - and we can wait forever:)...
We do not move with political winds - we are reliable, un-shakable, steadfast, and true - no fear of commitment here...
Damn we are GREAT! Wow...
...weenie libs and rino's eat yer heart out:)!
TM: I do not see how this
February 5, 2008 - 12:28 ET by BDTM:
I do not see how this applies to the posting above?
BD, maybe you need
February 5, 2008 - 14:13 ET by TruthMongerBD, maybe you need glasses?
not sure I can help:)
I am attempting to apply
February 5, 2008 - 15:35 ET by BDI am attempting to apply your second and third sentances to your first, and see no logic train. Is one supposed to infer something? I mean
Scott posted the following:
Rush should be whipping George Stephanopoulos and the rest of the Clinton operatives in the MSM, like these to name a few who participated in manipulating the political coverage to Hillary's benefit:
To which you replied with a viewpoint of a certain photo which was not referenced in Scotts posting.
What am I missing?
BD, my humble posts are not
February 5, 2008 - 18:28 ET by TruthMongerBD, my humble posts are not worth this much effort, really:)
flattered by your persistant attempts, however...
and so here you go:
I was responding to dscott who was responding to motherbelt who was commenting on a thread about Bob Dole chastising Rush about his supposed indiscretionary lack of party support...
1. motherbelt sarcastically proclaims that Rush must now bow in awed servitude to Bob Dole and support McCain...
2. to which dscott proclaims the Rush should beat down some typical MSM boneheads for pushing Hillary instead...
3. to which I essentially proclaim that Rush doesn't really give a damn about Dole on this either way, I'm sure...
4. and then followed that with a reference to Dole's picture above not looking that much different than McCain whilst inferring that there really isn't much difference between them at all (very nice touch, TM, if you do say so yourself:)...
5. and then I wrap-er all up with a fantastically poetic rebuke of Dole (again the subject of this thread) about the greatness of conservatives and the weenie-ness of all the rest:
Conservatives don't need the presidency, Bob - we don't need RINO's, and we don't even need the US - we just need conservatives - and we can wait forever:)...
We do not move with political winds - we are reliable, un-shakable, steadfast, and true - no fear of commitment here...
Damn we are GREAT! Wow...
...weenie libs and rino's eat yer heart out:)!
I sure hope this did the trick:)
your pal,
TM
Ok, got it.
February 6, 2008 - 09:51 ET by BDOk, got it.
Dole
February 5, 2008 - 10:52 ET by GothampcI've not taken Bob Dole seriously since his days as an actor on erectile dysfunction commercials. He needs to make a reservation at the Jimmy Carter Home for Politicians That Need to Disappear
I don't suppose...
February 5, 2008 - 10:56 ET by Prester John...that Dole considered calling up Rush directly and having a private conversation with him vice allowing the McCain campaign to release a letter.
Umbelievable.
Want ta know about loosin
February 5, 2008 - 10:57 ET by Warner Todd HustonBob Dole knows about loosing.
Bob Dole has lost.
Bob Dole didn't like it, but Bob Dole knows how to do it.
Bob Dole says silence the conservatives in the GOP. Bob Dole knows that will make the GOP lose.
Bob Dole is used to losing.
Bob Dole...
February 5, 2008 - 11:22 ET by Jack BauerBob Dole don't surf.
And then of course
February 5, 2008 - 11:30 ET by FastEdMcLame became Bob Dole.
There is no sense in being stupid, if you can't prove it! - my dad V
With All Due Respect to Bob Dole
February 5, 2008 - 10:59 ET by BourbeauRush must be shaking in his boots. What's with this "11th Hour" input; where has Bob been for the last twelve months? Again, I don't care about John McCain's service record or what bracelet Bob Dole chose to wear to support our POWs - that's not the issue here. John McCain will be a war hero regardless of anything anyone says or does in this election, and that's the way it should be. What I do care about is his record for the last seven years and what he's done to undermine conservative values. I hold him accountable for McCain-Feingold; and I am outraged with his support of the the McCain-Kennedy immigration reform. There's a penalty for deserting your values, and it's time that McCain learn this lesson.
Oh, Rush
February 5, 2008 - 11:10 ET by iveseenitallRush, you have just got to listen to that "winner", Bob Dole. Like McCain, he's a war hero. Did that make him President at a time when Bill Clinton was quite vulnerable? No. Bob was an "insider", like McCain. Did that help him win the election? No. However, like McCain, he was a naive "compromiser" who was all too willing to reach "across the asile". And he was old in 1996. Like it or not, that also played a part in his defeat. McCain, too, is old and that will lose votes for him. McCain and Dole are very similar candidates. Sadly, the biggest similarity is that they are losers in any campaign against the Democrats, the media, and the conservatives. Look at 2006. RINOS don't win national elections. McCain is dead in the water. Check the history books. Only when Republicans are Repulicans do they win national elections. It's as obvious as the nose on your face.
NEVER,NEVER trust a "liberal"
NEVER, NEVER trust a "liberal"....or John McCain
February 5, 2008 - 11:13 ET by TruthMattersNEVER, NEVER trust a "liberal"....or John McCain
I'm struggling
February 5, 2008 - 13:49 ET by fonzie2178to see a difference here... :-)
In politics, friendship
February 5, 2008 - 11:08 ET by pocomocoIn politics, friendship seems to trump reality which is what we are witnessing in Dole’s admonition of Limbaugh.
How about a #10 Bob? He was for the amnesty bill before he was against it.
McCain would not be a leader he would be a demander. He marches to a different drummer and is council only unto himself.
While we gloat and dance at
February 5, 2008 - 11:15 ET by ahusserWhile we gloat and dance at the self-destruction antics of the democrats we have problems of our own. The bashing and trashing of McCain on this website is as divisive as the other sides. A McCain nomination is a real possibility. I for one would support McCain if nominated. I know he does not pass the knee jerk conservative litmus tests "real" conservatives throw down in everyone's path who aspires to office. Personally I believe it is important to elect a Republican to office. If McCain is nominated and conservatives "harumph" and stay home then the other side wins. Period. The Republicans now in office squandered their majority in congress. An Obama or Clinton presidency would be a disaster. Any Republican president would have the onerous duty of being solely on the defensive. The bully pulpit and veto power the most powerful weapons in his arsenal. Legislation would be hard to come by and his office contiually trashed by the MSM. The trashing of our own is destructive and divisive and helps the enemy.
Republicans
February 5, 2008 - 11:45 ET by iveseenitallIf Republicans lose, so be it. We'll survive and maybe the country will wake up and vote the RINOS and the Democrats ( same thing) out next time. This country has been led , slowly but surely, down the path to "liberalism" over the past 40 years. "Liberalism" is a destructive cancer. In the long run, it will be our ultimate doom. Just look around. Promiscuity, drugs, ignorance, moral decay of basic values...on and on it goes. The tide can be turned only through a return to conservativism. Either you believe this or you don't. Compromising what has made us a great nation is, in the long run, just another nail in the coffin.
Maybe Abe Lincoln should have compromised with the Confederates. Maybe Winston Churchill should have made nice with Hitler. After all, they both loved animals. Maybe, for the sake of 19-0 history in the making, the Giants should have "compromised" with the Patriots. No way, Johnboy.
NEVER,NEVER trust a "liberal"
So It's Your Opinion . . . .
February 5, 2008 - 11:38 ET by BourbeauSo it's your opinion that Conservatives should just shut up, fall in line behind McCain regardless of what that might mean for the dilution of Conservative principles. There's a difference between being a Conservative and being a Republican. McCain (for the last eight years) has been a Republican in name only. As President, he'll govern like a moderate liberal. What does that mean? It means he will 'negotiate' with his friends in Congress on taxes, the judiciary, and immigration. Yes, he'll be strong on the war on terror, but that's not the only important issue we face. Conservatives have every right to fight for a conservative to represent them; we thought we had one in Bush, we're not making the same mistake with McCain.
That is not what he is
February 5, 2008 - 11:52 ET by dscottThat is not what he is saying, and voting for McCain is not the issue! Go after the people who manipulated the political coverage to benefit Hillary. If we don't deal with this now, we will have to fight that battle all over again in the next election cycle. Deal with the MSM, but especially the Clinton Operatives in the MSM.
Lord Sidious / Darth Vader 2008 Long Live the Empire! Come to the Dark Side, it is your Destiny.
I know he does not pass the
February 5, 2008 - 12:48 ET by fitzfongI know he does not pass the knee jerk conservative litmus tests "real" conservatives throw down in everyone's path who aspires to office. Personally I believe it is important to elect a Republican to office. If McCain is nominated and conservatives "harumph" and stay home then the other side wins.
The condescending tone of your "litmus test" sentence perfectly encapsulates why more and more conservatives are finding McCain and his ilk unacceptable. Guess what, the more the Republican-at-any-cost types like you try to shove RINOs into us like suppositories, the more we REJECT them. I'm not about to throw away my principles just to appease a bunch of RINO bullies with outcome-oriented thinking. If McCain supporters don't like resistence...TOUGH. We're not going to be rolled just because you want to move from the primary hurdle into the general. McCain has not earned the nomination yet, and unless/until he does, I will oppose him with all I've got. I haven't decided what I would do if he does get the nomination, but suffice it to say the incessant browbeating by McCain and his supporters is not helping his cause. If he wants to solidify his position as the Republican nominee, it's about time he started meeting us halfway rather than insisting that we meet him. And get this straight, unless John McCain embraces conservatism, whether Hillary wins, Obama wins or McCain wins...the other side wins.
Hey Noel...
February 5, 2008 - 11:19 ET by TruthMattersNoel,
I need some more of your columns shedding the light (sunlight) on global warming. I need some humor today.
BTW....check out Al Gore's self serving recent talk
http://www.newbaptistcelebration.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=80&Itemid=96
Try this one you will like
February 5, 2008 - 11:26 ET by dscottTry this one you will like it! http://www.timesonli... Lord Sidious / Darth Vader 2008 Long Live the Empire! Come to the Dark Side, it is your Destiny.
An Open Question to Messers Dole and McLame
February 5, 2008 - 11:37 ET by FastEdWith all of your past experiences, when was the Last Time a demolib "crossed" the asile to work with the 'pubs?? When was the last time that a demolib negotiated or comprimised with the 'publicans?? Why do 'publicans ALWAYS 'help' their counterparts, but never the other way around??? Take a long look at how the demolibs help YOUR causes, while y'all give up yours.
We respect your personal war experiences, but we cannot respect your movements to the left - tis not where WE want to go. You guys HAVE been in DC too long, and have gone over to the socialist side of thinking, and WE don't agree.
There is no sense in being stupid, if you can't prove it! - my dad V (my hero, past member of 5th AF)
One word: Delicious. ;-)
February 5, 2008 - 11:41 ET by balboaOne word: Delicious.
;-)
Delicious for libs,you bet
February 5, 2008 - 12:03 ET by iveseenitallMore proof. For "liberals", winning is the "only" thing. Principles be damned. It's a way of life for them. Sad.
NEVER,NEVER trust a "liberal"
Oh lighten up and give the
February 5, 2008 - 12:09 ET by balboaOh lighten up and give the rhetoric a rest.
lighten up
February 5, 2008 - 13:55 ET by iveseenitall"Lighten up" "Get the starch out of your shirt"--typical "liberal" rsponses. Too bad--more people than ever have caught on.
NEVER,NEVER trust a "liberal"
I was having some fun with
February 5, 2008 - 13:57 ET by balboaI was having some fun with Noel. Go away.
Hey boa... You did post that
February 5, 2008 - 14:00 ET by bigtimerHey boa...
You did post that under isia's post..I read it earlier and thought that is who you were responding to also.
Lighten up yourself...are you in a icky mood today?
LOL!
Thanks, BT
February 5, 2008 - 14:23 ET by iveseenitallThanks,BT. He meant it for me. "Liberals" are quite moody sometimes (and denial is part of their makeup).
NEVER,NEVER trust a "liberal"
You got me! I meant you,
February 5, 2008 - 19:38 ET by balboaYou got me! I meant you, even though "delicious" is Noel's word. So, even though you're not making any sense, ya' got me!
Balboa
February 5, 2008 - 20:49 ET by Noel SheppardB,
I was with you nine hours ago. :-) ns
Bob Dole represents the old
February 5, 2008 - 12:06 ET by Chris NormanBob Dole represents the old guard, the last generation of the GOP. So does McCain, which even if he were more conservative, would worry me. There's an air of mothballs and preservatives about him...
I heard Dole interviewed
February 5, 2008 - 11:43 ET by bigtimerI heard Dole interviewed about all of this late afternoon yesterday...
I was disgusted, he tried to wiggle around a lot as far as I was concerned..but what stood out the most to me about all of this, is that all of this was well timed...all of it to get the maximum coverage, plus Rush's show was over right about then.
I love how the repub political elite tell us what to do and who we have to vote for in the end....Dole included, has he not realized yet why he lost and that the likes of him are part of the conservatives problem....
Gingrich is no better, he never was when it came to strategy of who to support statewide when it came to conservatives, Rove has continued the same strategy...will they never learn?
Will we?
Btw...I am looking forward to hearing Rush and his response today...not just to this, but to a lot of other comments that have been made about him in just the last 24 hours...going to be interesting.
Also, I for one am not in the least surprised by the Politico omitting number nine...they are a left-wing outfit supporting McCain...just like all their brethren.
Rush has his reasons...
February 5, 2008 - 11:56 ET by Clear thinkerFirst of all, I have been a huge Rush fan for years so don't go chastising me for what I'm about to say. Rush has 30 million reasons each and every year to not like McCain, 30 million dollars.
Rush knows that he and others in his tax bracket will get hit hard if McCain refuses to extend the Bush tax cuts. So, Rush and others like him are looking to Mitt Romney to protect some of their money. Rush knows the Dems will up his taxes by a half Gazillion dollars, and he won't fare much better under a McCain presidency, so he really had only one choice.
For the rest of us that are nowhere near his tax bracket don't trust any of them, Dem or RINO.
The Conservative movement is about to be reborn.
You are kidding, right? You
February 5, 2008 - 12:18 ET by Gary P JacksonYou are kidding, right?
You must not be a Rush listener. If McCain won the presidency, Rush would only benefit! He would have just as much to say as he did in the Clinton years! My guess is he would grow his audience, and bank account!
And I doubt Rush would compromise his beliefs for money. If that was true, he would never say a dissenting remark about President Bush, as he has.
No, I'm not kidding! Rush
February 5, 2008 - 12:24 ET by Clear thinkerNo, I'm not kidding!
Rush had nothing to worry about with Bush because he knew Bush was a big tax cut guy.
The Conservative movement is about to be reborn.
Been reading the liberal blogs, Clear?
February 5, 2008 - 12:31 ET by RJRush and Romney are protecting tax cuts for the rich? Wow.
I guess that shows "clearly" where your political sentiments lie.
RJ... You are barking up
February 5, 2008 - 12:42 ET by Clear thinkerRJ...
You are barking up the wrong tree. Since when is telling the truth a liberal virtue?
The Conservative movement is about to be reborn.
I dunno, clear. That sounds straight from the liberal blogs...
February 5, 2008 - 12:56 ET by RJYou can't avoid the rest of your "truth."
1) Where else could you have heard that Rush and Romney intend to protect the tax brackets of the "rich", That's a primary leftist mantra.
2) Your argument says that you also think President Bush's tax cuts favored the "rich."
3) Your argument says that you want them repealed. It also says that you don't want them to be permanent.
Your political sentiments seem pretty "clear."
"We've been discovering that evangelicals aren't as conservative as we thought." -Carlson Tucker
RJ... I love your new
February 5, 2008 - 12:59 ET by bigtimerRJ...
I love your new tagline!
So true too...
RJ... Have you lost your
February 5, 2008 - 13:03 ET by Clear thinkerRJ...
Have you lost your mind or something?
The Conservative movement is about to be reborn.
No, but I suspect you have, Clear
February 5, 2008 - 13:18 ET by RJNo response to the issues my post raised about your liberal stance on taxes?
"We're discovering that evangelicals aren't as conservative as we thought." -Tucker Carlson
RJ...How in the world
February 5, 2008 - 13:25 ET by Clear thinkerRJ...
How in the world did you get that from my post???
Just for the record: I support tax cuts for all tax payers, period!
The Conservative movement is about to be reborn.
Easy , Clear
February 5, 2008 - 13:59 ET by RJ"Rush knows that he and others in his tax bracket will get hit hard if McCain refuses to extend the Bush tax cuts. So, Rush and others like him are looking to Mitt Romney to protect some of their money. Rush knows the Dems will up his taxes by a half Gazillion dollars, and he won't fare much better under a McCain presidency, so he really had only one choice."
You claim that Rush is lying, and that his real purpose is to join Romney in order to protect his tax status. You're also implying that tax cuts aid the "rich"...a liberal mantra.....and that there's something wrong with any candidate who might "protect" thir tax status.
Aside: but we all understand that your real purpose was to attack Romney again. ;^)
"We're discovering that evangelicals aren't as conservative as we thought." -Tucker Carlson
You claim that Rush is
February 5, 2008 - 14:11 ET by dscottYou claim that Rush is lying, and that his real purpose is to join Romney in order to protect his tax status. You're also implying that you think there's something wrong with Rush's current tax status....and something wrong with any candidate who might "protect" that status.
Good Grief RJ, let it go. Clear did not in anyway claim Rush lied. He merely stated that Rush has a vested interest in the Bush Tax Cut due to his income status. Even if he made $30 mil, he probably didn't get a tax cut anyway since the AMT would have nailed him as many upper income earners found out. That's why numerous more people in 2003 ended up paying the AMT. (pisst, Dirty little secret, don't tell anyone)
There is nothing wrong with Rush's tax status, more power to him in making the big bucks, he deserves it for taking the flak in any event. Nor did Clear impune Rush in implying he was being self serving for wanting to keep the tax cut. What's good for him is good for other people too. It's a mutual vested interest.
Lord Sidious / Darth Vader 2008 Long Live the Empire! Come to the Dark Side, it is your Destiny.
Good grief, dscott, why don't you let it go?
February 5, 2008 - 14:52 ET by RJWhy should I "let it go" and not you? :^)
Sorry that you're unable to make the connection.
Clear claims that the hidden reason Rush says what he says is because he wants to protect his tax status. That means he's claiming that Rush isn't telling the truth (lying) about why he likes or dislikes particular candidates.
Clear attempted to cast a negative light on tax cuts and those nasty, lying, selfish "rich" people who favor them....a decidedly liberal position.
"We've been discovering that evangelicals aren't as conservative as we thought." -Tucker Carlson
RJ, you're arguing for the
February 5, 2008 - 14:57 ET by dscottRJ, you're arguing for the sake of arguing by reading into what he said. It's getting rather annoying.
Lord Sidious / Darth Vader 2008 Long Live the Empire! Come to the Dark Side, it is your Destiny.
dscott... Evidently RJ only
February 5, 2008 - 15:05 ET by Clear thinkerdscott...
Evidently RJ only sees in what he reads what he wants to.
I would not let him get under your skin. But thanks for defending me.
The Conservative movement is about to be reborn.
lol Clear and dscott
February 5, 2008 - 15:10 ET by RJGeez, that's sad. Youse guys just keep repeating that I'm wrong, but you still haven't mustered a single defense between the pair of ya. :^)
"We've been discovering that evangelicals aren't as conservative as we thought." -Tucker Carlson
RJ... You really have lost
February 5, 2008 - 14:25 ET by Clear thinkerRJ...
You really have lost your mind!
The Conservative movement is about to be reborn.
You keep saying that, Clear
February 5, 2008 - 14:38 ET by RJ...but you're unable to defend yourself or refute that you've taken a liberal position.
"We've been discovering that evangelicals aren't as conservative as we thought." -Tucker Carlson
RJ... I refuse to refute
February 5, 2008 - 14:44 ET by Clear thinkerRJ...
I refuse to refute them because your assertions are just plain stupid, and I do not have an inferiority complex.
The Conservative movement is about to be reborn.
Great argument, Clear.
February 5, 2008 - 15:20 ET by RJYour "so there, Mr. Stupidhead" argument is a slam dunk. Ok, you win... :^)
"...and who expended all of his energies on preserving his opinions from contamination." -Michael Chabron, "Gentlemen of the Road"
RJ... I won as soon as you
February 5, 2008 - 15:24 ET by Clear thinkerRJ...
I won as soon as you posted BS about my post!
The Conservative movement is about to be reborn.
Hey, I already agreed with you, Clear
February 5, 2008 - 15:34 ET by RJNo one can compete against your "so there, Mr. Stupidhead" arguments. :^)
"We're finding that evangelicals aren't nearly as conservative as we thought. -Tucker Carlson
Clear, it must really bug
February 5, 2008 - 14:30 ET by Conservative VoiceClear, it must really bug you that Rush not only has endorsed Romney, but has said he has all three tiers of conservatism
( Fiscal, Social, and Foreign ) so you have to make leaps in logic to claim it is only because Rush personally benefits, so isn't being true to his principles. I have listened to Rush since 91, and consider myself a Rush conservative.
And besides, Don't we all personally benefit from low taxes? Don't we all benefit when government governs on conservative principles.
CV... No, why should it bug
February 5, 2008 - 14:41 ET by Clear thinkerCV... No, why should it bug me? I love Rush and have been a listener and very big fan of his for almost as long as you. As much as I love Rush, he does not have as much of an effect on elections as people would like to think. History can prove that out.
As far as the 3 legged stool of conservatism, Rush has never said that Mitt has all three. And if for some reason I missed it, which is doubtful because I listen daily, then I appologize. The reality for me is this... when has MANDATING healthcare become a conservative plank?
Mitt barely makes it to conservative-lite, but he does have great hair!
I posted somewhere in this thread that I am for tax cuts for all tax payers. I would like to add... tax cuts ONLY to tax payers. If you don't pay taxes, you should NOT expect or demand money from the Gov!
The Conservative movement is about to be reborn.
3-legged stool
February 5, 2008 - 14:47 ET by masslibertarianYou did miss it. He said it on yesterday's show.
From yesterday's Rush in a Hurry email: "The three legs of the conservative stool are national security/foreign policy, social policy, and fiscal policy. Now, based on the way the campaign has shaken out, there probably is a candidate on our side who does embody all three legs of the stool, and that's Mitt Romney."
Mass... Well, I stand
February 5, 2008 - 14:53 ET by Clear thinkerMass...
Well, I stand corrected. But just because Rush said it does not make it so!
The Conservative movement is about to be reborn.
Hey, who told you my old
February 5, 2008 - 14:53 ET by Roger the ShrubberHey, who told you my old college nickname?
Rog... Which one, Mass or
February 5, 2008 - 14:59 ET by Clear thinkerRog...
Which one, Mass or Stand Corrected ;-)
The Conservative movement is about to be reborn.
Ct... Don't chastise me
February 5, 2008 - 12:24 ET by bigtimerCt...
Don't chastise me either for about what I am going to suggest, this has nothing to do with Rush, it has to do with Thompson.
I will forever wonder if he just threw his hat in the ring to help McCain in the end.
Has this ever crossed your mind?
It would not end up surprising me at this point, I have been hurt and disappointed by men in the past that I totally believed in politically...they don't call it a blood sport for nothing.
Now as far as Rush goes and $$$ regarding tax cuts, I don't think he gives a rats rear when it comes down to it...he is not going to vote for a leftist who is one of the dirtiest campaigners there are politically...that piece of work is McCain.
I hope Romney wins in the caucus here in Mt. today...and I will vote for him if I get the chance...it is no surprise to anyone that is here regularly that he has always been my second choice.
Hi bt... I would never
February 5, 2008 - 12:50 ET by Clear thinkerHi bt...
I would never consider anything you say to me as chastising and I would never do that to your either. :-)
No, the thought of Fred running interference for McCain never crossed my mind. Not that I ignored it, how could you ignore it being spoken about as much as it has, buuuut... Being in touch with people from his campaign (a very recent occurance) I can say without a doubt that Fred had no intention of running just to help his friend. They are friends but have major differences in ideology and Fred is too much of an honest guy to pull something like that.
The Conservative movement is about to be reborn.
Ct... Thanks for your
February 5, 2008 - 12:55 ET by bigtimerCt...
Thanks for your response.
You know, I hope this election doesn't hurt friendships here because of all of our different view-points and our different stands on matters...it is what makes the world go 'round.
Wasn't it Dole who said I
February 5, 2008 - 11:45 ET by Dan The Man 2Wasn't it Dole who said I will not be held to the party platform?
Nuke em til they glow then shoot em in the dark.
Lose on principles
February 5, 2008 - 12:02 ET by iveseenitallI would rather lose defending what I believe, then to "win" and ad to the on-going destruction of this nation. However, McCain is not going to win if he is nominated . His "supporters" in the media will destroy him. Why can't the RINOS see this? Frustrating.
NEVER,NEVER trust a "liberal"
None of the 3 candidates
February 5, 2008 - 12:06 ET by Clear thinkerNone of the 3 candidates stand a chance in the general election. I see at least 4 years of a Dem for president. Maybe the GOP really is dead?!
The Conservative movement is about to be reborn.
4 years? You're a Pollyanna.
February 5, 2008 - 12:12 ET by Chris Norman4 years? You're a Pollyanna. I see at least 8. Despite the admirable hope of some here, that the Dems will tank and a new true conservative knight in shining armor will come riding to the rescue in 2012 (who, I don't know), I think it's pretty much whistling past the graveyard. Once the Dems get in, with the media providing the cover and backup, they will be hard to blast out.
Chris, I covered myself in
February 5, 2008 - 12:26 ET by Clear thinkerChris, I covered myself in the comment by saying "at least 4 years".
The Conservative movement is about to be reborn.
Ah. I see. Okay, I take it
February 5, 2008 - 12:31 ET by Chris NormanAh. I see. Okay, I take it back. You're not a Pollyanna. :)
Thanks, I could not sleep
February 5, 2008 - 12:37 ET by Clear thinkerThanks, I could not sleep tonight thinking I was being compared to a Polly or an Anna!
The Conservative movement is about to be reborn.
You may sleep the peaceful
February 5, 2008 - 13:02 ET by Chris NormanYou may sleep the peaceful sleep of a realistic cynic... :)
the GOP may be dead - but
February 5, 2008 - 12:27 ET by TruthMongerthe GOP may be dead - but conservativism is alive and well...
Conservatives don't need the presidency, we don't need RINO's, and we don't even need the US - we just need conservatives - and we can wait forever:)...
We do not move with political winds - we are reliable, un-shakable, steadfast, and true - no fear of commitment here...
Damn we are GREAT! Wow...
...weenie libs and rino's eat yer heart out:)!
And this is in refernce tooo
February 5, 2008 - 12:30 ET by BDAnd this is in reference toooo what?
a few posts up
February 5, 2008 - 13:40 ET by TruthMongerFebruary 5, 2008 - 12:06 ET by Clear thinker
None of the 3 candidates stand a chance in the general election. I see at least 4 years of a Dem for president. Maybe the GOP really is dead?!
All I Can Say Is . . .
February 5, 2008 - 12:07 ET by BourbeauTo those who are so enthralled with the new John McCain, and think he's the answer for Conservatives, all I can say to them are those infamous words of admonishment from General Honore, as he stood before the MSM in New Orleans: "You're stuck on stupid!" It may be that he wins the nomination. But conservatives will remember this capitulation to accept this RINO for years to come.
This had to come.
February 5, 2008 - 12:21 ET by iveseenitallIt is going to be a tough pill to take when McCain loses in the general election. But maybe it had to come to this. The RINOS for amnesty, over-spending, not defending the President, etc. have not suffered enough for their actions. Conservatives, basically, have not been "represented" for years. But anyone who has lived long enough knows that if you don't believe in something, you believe in nothing. You also have to go through the desert to reach your goal. Dole wasn't proof enough for them, now it's McCain. If McCain gets nominated, he will lose big. Another phrase, "you often get what you deserve." Listen up, RINOS.
NEVER,NEVER trust a "liberal"
McCain is one of those
February 5, 2008 - 15:32 ET by motherbeltMcCain is one of those "even Republicans" who believe that if they take on enough of the liberals' stands, they will get their votes. The problem is they have enough liberals already taking those stands; they are not going to be drawn to a "maverick" Republican. Why vote for a liberal impersonator when they have plenty of the real thing?
As for the Republican party being dead, or at least dying, I blieve that to be true. At least as party different from the Democrats.
In another thread, someone else was talking about the GOP sliding further left. I agree. But the problem with that is there is no "middle ground" because the Dems aren't moving right. The GOP is becoming more like them.
But you have to wonder if it's because the country as a whole is becoming more socialist in its philosophy... when more and more people want the government to give them what they can't earn for themselves, even if it means taking from someone else to do it...when people think that no one should have to do without anything just because they don't earn as much as another..
When the country as a whole is developing that attitude...the only argument between the parties. to get elected, becomes: who will offer more goodies and redistribute more. Maybe that's why they are moving left...it's what the country wants.
I don't know if you guys have read HRC's op-ed in the WSJ. Who wants to hear about personal responsibility when a politician promises...college that a single mother can afford..(now where do you think those subsidies going to come from??????) Minimum wage of $10 an hour????? And more, and more, and more. America under HRC will be a veritable "Promise Land."
One last thing: check out Neal Boortz's Democrats' (Secret) Plan for America: especially the tax part: shifting the entire tax burden to "upper income earners," little by little. Then it will be impossible to get tax cuts, and increases will be child's play, because they won't affect the majority of Americans. He says:
Through this ploy the Democrats plan to create a defeat-proof socialist congress.
Apparently some Republicans are willing to go along, so that they can keep getting elected. They will lose anyway, because you simply can't out-pander the liberals.
Sorry about the long rant (to anyone who's still reading LOL)..I guess I'm just feeling frustrated today.
mb.... I read it all...I
February 5, 2008 - 15:38 ET by bigtimermb....
I read it all...I loved it all.
You pretty much got it summed up to a tee.
I'm past frustrated at this point...better get off of here soon....lol!
Gonna' be a long night...I just hope not a sad one.
No one here is "enthralled"
February 5, 2008 - 12:22 ET by Chris NormanNo one here is "enthralled" with McCain, but your anger is misplaced. McCain wasn't forced on us by anyone. He has been winning the primaries, fair and square, within the rules. There just wasn't a conservative candidate this time strong enough to light the fire of conservatives early. You really can't blame anyone for where we find ourselves - except for maybe the mythical perfect, charismatic conservative who chose not to run this time. Do you know who this person is? I don't.
A lot of the blame goes to
February 5, 2008 - 12:30 ET by Clear thinkerA lot of the blame goes to our media. They did a magnificent job of keeping Conservatives from liking Fred. Then we also have our own party to blame. Republicans, not necessarily conservatives, have been leaning the way of the party, left.
The Conservative movement is about to be reborn.
"A lot of the blame goes to
February 5, 2008 - 12:49 ET by Chris Norman"A lot of the blame goes to our media."
CT, if Republicans are still so easily manipulated by the media, then I despair.
Chris... There is a
February 5, 2008 - 12:54 ET by Clear thinkerChris...
There is a difference between Republicans and Conservatives, even though Conservatives are generally in the Republican Party.
The Conservative movement is about to be reborn.
CT, Do you really think that
February 5, 2008 - 13:06 ET by Chris NormanCT,
Do you really think that "republicans" are that gullible, save for Conservatives? And why are we having this conversation now and not ever before?
Chris... Yes I do. I say
February 5, 2008 - 13:13 ET by Clear thinkerChris...
Yes I do. I say this because for years I was one of them. No matter what came down the pike, once the Party told me to vote because we can't have Dem candidate X in the WH, I did what I was told. After 30 years of voting this way I finally woke up. It's my vote, not the party's.
Good question as to 'why now'!
The Conservative movement is about to be reborn.
Some Republicans are
February 5, 2008 - 19:46 ET by MikeBSome Republicans are manipulated by the Media, but I don't think that is what was meant. How much coverage was given to Duncan Hunter, Tom Tancredo, or Fred Thompson. Thompson got more coverage than the other two, but it was nothing like the coverage the media gave to "rockstar" Obama. How often have the media asked substantive questions of her thighness Hillary or Barak "the Magic Negro" Obama? Even in the debates, it was mostly softball questions for Democrats. The notable exception was when they nailed Hillary on driver's licenses for illegal aliens, and she gave that to them big time.
When did the Media interview Duncan Hunter or Tom Tancredo, Tommy Thompson, Fred Thompson, or any of the candidates Democrat or Republican, on illegal immigration, federal spending, the war on terror, energy independence, or any of the issues? The media has committed, and continues to commit misfeasance on this and many other topics.
"A communist is someone who reads Marx. An anti-communist is someone who understands Marx." Ronald Reagan
MikeB... AMEN! The
February 5, 2008 - 19:55 ET by Clear thinkerMikeB...
AMEN!
The Conservative movement is about to be reborn.
Exactly, you got it, the MSM
February 5, 2008 - 21:07 ET by dscottExactly, you got it, the MSM refused to cover the candidates by any standard of "equality of outcome", the standard they push to justify their agendas. There was no attempt at equal time, no attempt to tell the public where each candidate stood on the issues, no attempt to even cover the issues and no attempt to inform the public of even who was running. Tell us would even 10% of the public know of Alan Keyes if we didn't mention? This whole election cycle has been one continuous stream of manipulations by the MSM for the benefit of their preferred political party. Now what makes anyone think that the MSM hasn't already picked out the Dem nominee?
Lord Sidious / Darth Vader 2008 Long Live the Empire! Come to the Dark Side, it is your Destiny.
RINO's are trying to force
February 5, 2008 - 12:30 ET by TruthMongerRINO's are trying to force McCain on conservatives - undeniable - we have quotes from Arnold, Rudy, Kristol, now Dole...
Go ahead and vote RINO if you want - but conservatives will not be moved...
We stick to our principles...
REALLY? EXACTLY HOW DID
February 5, 2008 - 12:50 ET by Chris NormanREALLY? EXACTLY HOW DID RINOS "FORCE" MCCAIN ON US? DID RINOS HOLD A GUN TO VOTERS HEADS? If everyone here is so sure that McCain is beatable, THEN GET A CONSERVATIVE CANDIDATE WHO CAN BEAT HIM. I'll vote for whoever that is.
Well, for starters, McCain
February 5, 2008 - 13:08 ET by fitzfongWell, for starters, McCain got a pretty good jump by getting Democrats and Independents to cross over and vote for him in the early "open" primaries...poisoning the primaries by making his "victories" appear greater and more momentous than they actually were. Then McCain used that creep Huckabee as his wingman to siphon single-issue conservative voters from more viable conservative candidates. Then he got a bunch of Beltway Republicans to fall into line chastising conservative voters for not supporting the "inevitable" McCain nomination. Then came the predictable personal attacks...Limbaugh is a junkie, how dare Romney attack Bob Dole's candidacy (why, that's an unwarranted personal attack on a war hero from someone who didn't serve...I demand Romney apologize, blah, blah, blah). This is a few guns short of a coup.
Bingo fitz! Summed up rather
February 5, 2008 - 13:14 ET by bigtimerBingo fitz!
Summed up rather well indeed.
McCain using this recent BS against Romney because he didn't serve..and demand an apology from him to Dole makes me ill.
I despise him, Sam Johnson in congress who was a POW far longer than McCain is a real hero...McCain uses this which I find beyond sad.
Thanks RJ and bigtimer, I
February 5, 2008 - 13:22 ET by fitzfongThanks RJ and bigtimer,
I recall John Kerry used similar "I served, you didn't, so only I get to speak" tactic.
Were these rules allowing
February 5, 2008 - 14:01 ET by Chris NormanWere these rules allowing Independents and Democrats to vote (which I oppose) new? If not, McCain just benefitted from the rules that were stupidly put in place by others. Shame on us, for not watching for this.
Maybe so. But as a
February 5, 2008 - 16:29 ET by fitzfongMaybe so. But as a resident of California, I couldn't really have an effect on how the Republicans operated the primaries in New Hampshire and South Carolina. But due to the avalanche of coverage, endorsements and MSM apologists putting the early results on steroids, we're effectively to those tainted results.
Fitz, face it. This time
February 5, 2008 - 19:07 ET by Chris NormanFitz, with all due rspect, let's face it. This time around, most of the GOP field was tainted, one way or another. If we wanted a true conservative, we could have rallied around Duncan Hunter, instead of waiting for some white knight to ride in and save us - Hunter had zero name recognition and probably wouldn't have stood a chance - but he does have impeccable conservative credentials. In that hesitation of conservtaives to commit to a true conservative and rally around him early on, McCain won primaries and is poised to get the nomination. He still may be stopped, but I doubt it. We weren't tricked or had someone him down out throats. We weren't ready when it really could have counted - plain and simple.
Chris, we can only vote for
February 5, 2008 - 19:08 ET by fitzfongChris, we can only vote for whomever is running. It's all well and good to say rally behind Duncan Hunter, but he had the responsibility to make himself known. I'm from Orange County, and I had barely heard of the guy...I had heard of Tom Tancredo, who's from Colorado. But it's a pipe dream that anyone will simply step out of the House of Representatives and get any party's nomination. And I dispute your assertion that John McCain wasn't forced down our throats. In the run-up to the Iowa Caucuses, the media started championing that clown Mike Huckabee...and he snagged enough single-issue voters to win in Iowa. Then, knowing that New Hampshire Republicans (Democrats & Independents) wouldn't vote for a "social conservative"...the media shifted their attention to propping up McCain. They minimized Romney's Michigan and Nevada victories to focus attention on another "open" primary in South Carolina. McCain has been allowed to build phony momentum due to the electorate's ignorance...McCain got 36% of the vote in Florida to Romney's 33% (and if Huckafraud hadn't polluted that primary by his mere presence, Romney would have won) yet it was trumpeted as a watershed victory. Now McCain and Huckafraud are trying to lay the drop cloth behind Romney...and they're pretending not to be working together to set Romney up. This process has been illegitimate from Day One, and has been compounded by the hot air discharged by Fred Barnes, Bill Kristol, Michael Medved and dozens of others (all who have learned the wrong lessons from the primaries thus far). John McCain has been forced down our throats, and I don't think I'm the only one searching for the ipecac.
Fitz, I was using Hunter to
February 5, 2008 - 20:00 ET by Chris NormanFitz, I was using Hunter to make my point. The fact is, no strong, charismatic, conservative ran this time. In that abasence, with the conservative vote splintered, McCain slid in through the split. There was no conspiracy. McCain had a right to run. He won delegates. Should he be disqualified, because we don't like him? I'm almost as disappointed and upset as everyone else here, but all this is getting out of control. It's beginning to sound like a conservative version of Kos here, with talk of conspiracies and elaborate ruses. Should we ask for a recount of Florida - like Gore? There is no one to blame for this. We're not doing ourselves any favors by trying to look wildly around for someone on which to do so. The bottom line is this, who could have run this time who could've beaten McCain and united conservatives? No one has come up with a name and I sure can't either.
Look, Chris. My point is
February 5, 2008 - 20:07 ET by fitzfongLook, Chris. My point is simply that John McCain gamed the flawed system to his advantage (and to our detriment). Now he and his apologists are insisting that we simply accept him because we have no other choice (in fact, his mother said something just like that). It's a little early to be demanding that we accept as our inevitable nominee someone that has yet to get anywhere near 50 percent in the first few primaries. There is plenty of time between now and November for recriminations to have run their course and for the disenchanted to decide whether or not they want to hold their noses and vote for McCain (if it comes to that). But McCain has no right to expect the conservative electorate to simply be happy that he manipulated the system and effectively cut in line to get the lead (and, perhaps, the nomination). He has a lot of work to do to convince the conservatives he's turned his back on time and time again that he's worth the effort to go to the polls and vote for.
Fitz, My point is these
February 6, 2008 - 11:40 ET by Chris NormanFitz,
My point is these "recriminations" are going to kill us before they run their course. Conservatives with this "purity or blood" rhetoric are painting themselves into a corner. They are marginalizing themselves. By taking themselves out of the party, they will not be in a position to influence it. The GOP has always been a mix of moderate/liberals and conservatives. Reagan brought a rise to the conservatives, but it's not our party by ownership. Sometimes moderates/liberals will win. Our job is support conservative candidates that will dominate the party and unite us. If we don't, then, that's the way it goes, until we do.
A reasonable position.
February 6, 2008 - 12:32 ET by dscottA reasonable position. But just as at times libs and moderates within the GOP will win, a Dem will win as well. The point is what you do with the setback. Do we curl up in a ball and pout, do we gather our marbels to stomp off to another Party or do we take the strategic view about rebuilding while we are not running things? I suggest the strategic view: http://conservablogs.com/publiusforum/2008/01/27/breast-beating-by-the-conservatives
Lord Sidious / Darth Vader 2008 Long Live the Empire! Come to the Dark Side, it is your Destiny.
conservatives are primarily
February 6, 2008 - 12:52 ET by TruthMongerconservatives are primarily concerned about being right - not just "popular"
that's the problem with rino's - too much personal insecurity - the power of America in the hands of co-dependants is a dangerous thing indeed
Chris, The reason the
February 6, 2008 - 13:01 ET by fitzfongChris,
The reason the Republican Party is going through these recriminations right now is that the ineffective left wing of the party has assumed control. We have the Last Inaction Hero out here in California ruining the State's economy and proposing to compound the matter by introducing socialized medicine and massive "Global Warming" boondoggles. The problem is that these liberal turds like McCain & Schwarzenegger have used the Clinton strategy of governing by polls...and have succeeded in masking their failures to a large proportion of the electorate. I'm simply not comfortable with the likes of Arnold Schwarzenegger leading the party over the cliff because we sought short-term "victory" by getting McCain elected. This populist shift in the Republican Party is like a virus...sometimes patching it up only extends the problem. Sometimes, you just need to let the virus run its course...and after you've had enough bouts with diarrhea and vomiting, the sickness goes away. We may need another Clinton to induce the necessary purging because feeding the disease with the likes of McCain, Schwarzenegger, Hagel, Snowe, Graham and Huckabee ain't helping.
EXCELLENT synopsis, fitzfong
February 5, 2008 - 13:14 ET by RJI mentioned McCain's under the radar jump start earlier...but you've presented his rise in much better detail.
I second that!!!! Well
February 5, 2008 - 15:38 ET by motherbeltI second that!!!! Well said, fitz!!
There are many ways to rig an election; most of them don't involve actual cheating.
Rush was talking today about West VA. Apparently after Romney getting off to a great start, McCain voters went in and voted for Huckabee...which gave Huckabee the win.
And we wonder why people get turned off and tune out politics.
If McCain is the candidate (and that seems increasingly likely), I'm going to lose a lot of interest in politics....
Not a Party Man, an American
February 5, 2008 - 12:13 ET by dwillmoreThis is the problem with the Republican party. The leadership and party moguls think that the people that fill the ranks are lemming like their Democrat counterparts. The foundations of the Republican party, the Reagan conservatives, are Americans above all else with conservative ideals. The Republican party no longer represents us!
I will not vote for McCain because he has an elephant after his name. The man has done more to harm the Constitution and US sovereignty than any Republican before him in the past 30 years. Why should you support him? He did not support the party.
Republicans be damned, I am out. I will not vote for Obama, Clinton or McCain. If that means that I sit out this election, so be it. Sometimes you cannot choose the lesser of two evils because the compromise is far too great.
Hmm McCain and the Mayan Calendar
February 5, 2008 - 12:17 ET by dwillmoreIt just occured to me that the Mayan calendar stops at 2012. Could this election have anything to do with that?? LOL
Rush is on right now, and
February 5, 2008 - 12:25 ET by Gary P JacksonRush is on right now, and makes a great point. No where in this letter does Bob Dole endorse John McCain. John McCain, of course is out there claiming he does. I saw Bob Dole on Hannity and Colmes last night, and when Alan asked Bob who he was for, he said he didn't have a dog in this fight! I find that very telling.
I like Bob Dole. I thought both his Pepsi commercials and the ones he did for Viagra were fine. If he had have shown that side of himself during the campaign, we would call him Mr President.
GaryP... I am listening
February 5, 2008 - 12:29 ET by bigtimerGaryP...
I am listening too... seems McCain has used Dole to the max...to disparage Romney...he must be worried, plus he knows the msm will not question him and jump on the band-wagon for him...for now that is...
He is nothing but pure leftist trash as far as I am concerned.
Must Listen
February 5, 2008 - 12:30 ET by CaringwhiteguyLimbaugh's comments currently taking place are a "Must Listen". Drop what you are doing right now and turn on the radio!
He did joke about putting
February 5, 2008 - 12:34 ET by motherbeltHe did joke about putting the letter on ebay (and giving the proceeds to Romney)....
Rush is restating plainly that Dole did NOT endorse McCain; in fact he was on H&C or Fox News aand was asked, and said he "didn't have a dog in this fight."
So I hope McCain is not going around saying Dole is endorsing him, or he will really have some crow to eat.
mb...No, Mccain is going
February 5, 2008 - 12:41 ET by bigtimermb...
No, Mccain is going around calling for Romney to apoligize immediately for disparaging a fine patriot like Dole.
McCain is past pathetic...they, being the McCain crew had this all planned IMHO...the McCain crew leaked this all with every intention of hurting Romney and Rush if possible...Dole was played like a fiddle if this is what all transpired.
The msm is doing what they planned too...
Btw...I wished Rush would ebay the letter...and give proceeds to Romney.
I know, bt, I heard that in
February 5, 2008 - 14:37 ET by motherbeltI know, bt, I heard that in the car..
McCain is using another liberal tactic....change the focus of the discussion.
BTW...Rush just said Huckabee came from nowhere to win WV...last I heard Romney was ahead...WTH happened?
He said something about someone combining forces...but I didn't catch it.
Re the letter: I was joking about that before Rush came on...I said I wonder how much he could get for that letter on ebay...
mb... Romney was ahead...he
February 5, 2008 - 14:42 ET by bigtimermb...
Romney was ahead...he had 41% of the vote...they had to vote again so Huck and Johnnie teamed up...as usual.
I despise both of those men.
Respected Fellow Busters of News
February 5, 2008 - 12:52 ET by third eyeIs it just me?
...Is it just me...Is it just me...Is it just me....
But is there an echo in here?
.....Echo in here...Echo in here...Echo in here....
MSM doesn't know Rush's Total Listening audience makes
February 5, 2008 - 13:03 ET by JayTeeThe MSM doesn't know Rush's Total Listening audience makes them look like inconsequetial Propaganda spinners.....?
I read the Letter on FOX news this morning.....I did NOT listen to the SPIN, as I thought it was a non event.
Are we seeing Desperation by MSM....BIAS'ed Desperation.
Go Romney !!
Stimulis: Congress and the president are now agreed on remedies that will not work, expending money they do not have, to fix a problem that may not exist. Steve Chapman
there it is
February 5, 2008 - 13:19 ET by candanceI knew a Monday Night Surprise was coming. McCain is hyping this up to the max and then bashing Romney for respectfully disagreeing.
Congrats to everyone out there who votes for McCain. You are voting for a liar, a cheat, a backstabber and a media slut. That's what you want your president to be. If a Democrat acted this way you'd shame them. But apparently for Republicans the end really does justify the means.
One way or another a liberal
February 5, 2008 - 13:56 ET by dscottOne way or another a liberal is going to be POTUS in 2009. The question is will we all curl up in a corner in January 2009 or will we be busy taking down the MSM and pointing the finger every time a liberal screws up?
Lord Sidious / Darth Vader 2008 Long Live the Empire! Come to the Dark Side, it is your Destiny.
Dole in 92
February 5, 2008 - 13:34 ET by mustangsallyDole lost in '92 because of the idiot conservatives who voted for Ross Perot. Dole has carried more water for Republican principles than any other living R.
For Romney to say Dole is the "last Republican" he would want endorsing him is opportunistic and despicable. It shows Romney's true colors; he is another slimy, opportunistic, deceiving Massachusetts snake of a politician ...
... and Rush is an obnoxious, gaseous windbag ...
...mustang...
February 5, 2008 - 13:39 ET by candanceDole lost in 96 so Perot had nothing to do with it.
But thanks for playing.
mustangsally
February 5, 2008 - 13:42 ET by bigtimer... and Rush is an obnoxious, gaseous windbag ...
sally...that is all in the ear of the beholder, now isn't it?
Some posters here remind me of the same description.
Dole lost in 96 to Clinton
February 5, 2008 - 13:45 ET by dscottDole lost in 96 to Clinton because he came off an angry old man while slick Willy was saying all was right with the world. America doesn't vote for angry people, no matter how right they are. I voted for him twice - Ford/Dole and Dole/Kemp
Lord Sidious / Darth Vader 2008 Long Live the Empire! Come to the Dark Side, it is your Destiny.
Get a grip. Dole lost in
February 5, 2008 - 13:45 ET by fitzfongGet a grip. Dole lost in '96 because he was an inferior candidate running exclusively on his military service and "character". Sound familiar?
For McCain to so transparently contort Romney's words for political collateral shows how vain and devoid of principles McCain is. If anyone on the Republican side is slimy, opportunistic and deceptive, it's McCain (and Huckabee).
I'll chalk your Rush Limbaugh comment up to your obvious ignorance.
Rush is Wrong ...
February 5, 2008 - 14:04 ET by mustangsallySorry to have to criticize your "Sacred Cow", but Rush is out for himself and not for conservative principles. It is too easy for him to act sanctimonous about legislators like Dole and McCain actually working with Democrats to pass legislation but isn't that the way legislation (like No Child Left Behind, for example) gets passed? Not by grandstanding bigmouths like Rush criticizing Republican standardbearers.
McCain says he is for lower taxes; why can't we take him at his word and understand that he made a mistake on the Bush tax cuts? Is that any different than giving Romney a pass on his Massacheusetts flip/flop on abortion, etc.?
Lastly, it is wrong for you (and Romney and pill-popping Rush) to disparage Bob Dole's campaign in '96. He ran on low taxes, pro-life, school choice, and strong military. If it wasn't for the Perot wackos, 9/11 wouldn't have happend because Dole would have GOTTEN Osama when we had the chance ...
I see mustang...Perot voters
February 5, 2008 - 14:12 ET by bigtimerI see mustang...Perot voters are to blame for 9-11 now.
I could go on and on about that but will leave it to others...
I would suggest the Clinton administration did nothing, had plenty of opportunities.
Rush is right.
take a chill pill mustang
February 5, 2008 - 14:18 ET by candanceROFL you're citing NCLB as a example of bipartisan success? By all accounts, including teachers and parents, NCLB is a big fat mistake that hinders our schools to no end. The tax cuts succeeded without "working with Democrats" as did the surge in Iraq and getting Alito appointed. What do we get from working with Democrats? More big government, less free speech, and amnesty for illegals. oh, and for the fourth time - Perot had nothing to do with Dole.
Chill Pill ...
February 5, 2008 - 14:31 ET by mustangsallyI might take a "chill pill" but Rush has eaten them all ...
Bottom line is, McCain has the best chance of beating Hillary in the Fall. Vote for Romney now, and increase the odds of a Hillary (or Obama) presidency. Say hello to socialized medicine, gay school curriculum, radically higher taxes, publicly funded abortion, and the institutionalization of the Culture of Death ...
Rush, of course, won't have to worry, he'll just say Republicans lost because they "aren't Ronald Reagan" and retire to some island with the proceeds from his snake-oil sales ...
ms... Blah blah
February 5, 2008 - 14:37 ET by bigtimerms...
Blah blah blah....
Glad to know how you think finally...you have said a lot.
JMHO.
Do you have anything to say ..
February 5, 2008 - 14:55 ET by mustangsallyor did your cat just walk across your keyboard?
ms... Learn to read and
February 5, 2008 - 14:59 ET by bigtimerms...
Learn to read and retain.
.....MEOW!
It doesn't matter which
February 5, 2008 - 14:46 ET by dscottIt doesn't matter which liberal gets into office in 2008, McCain included, they all will be pushing or condoning socialized medicine, gay school curriculum, etc. That's why they call it the liberal agenda. I'm inclined to agree with Rush on this point, let the Dem win so when the debacle occurs it will be the Dems on the hot seat. It's called strategic thinking.
Point is Conservatives were out manuvered in this election cycle, so whether a Dem or Repub wins, it's a loss. BTW-all this unhappiness will increase Rush's audience not decrease it, since conservatives have little to rally around.
Lord Sidious / Darth Vader 2008 Long Live the Empire! Come to the Dark Side, it is your Destiny.
wow mustang
February 5, 2008 - 14:48 ET by candanceNice to know you're not being hateful or anything.
socialized medicine, gay school curriculum, radically higher taxes, publicly funded abortion, and the institutionalization of the Culture of Death ...
We're getting that either way sweetie. McCain has a real bad habit of "working with Democrats" - isn't that what you wanted all along?
Your assumption is
February 5, 2008 - 17:03 ET by BDYour assumption is predicated on the notion that what the candidates actually DO during the campaign will not matter, it will be more important who they are.
I disagree with this. I will lay VERY heavy odds that Hillery will be virtually destroyed in the second debate by either of the two top Republican candidates. Same-same Obama.
Hillary does not do well when exposed to pressure and it will come up - same-same John McCain.
Perot
February 5, 2008 - 14:36 ET by masslibertarianHuh? If Dole had gotten every single one of Perot's votes in '96, Clinton still would have had more of the popular vote. The Electoral College vote would have barely swung to Dole - again by picking up every single one of Perot's voters. I'd say this is pretty unrealistic.
And stating definitively that Dole would have prevented 9/11 is just ridiculous.
What is the matter with you people?
February 6, 2008 - 07:17 ET by BritcomDigging up Bob Dole and Ross Perot's political carcases! You're acting like a bunch of crazy people. We have an election to win here. Now lets go figure out how we can nominate a Governor so we can win!
Actually, if Perot had not
February 6, 2008 - 07:33 ET by Roger the ShrubberActually, if Perot had not run, and all of his votes assumedly went to Dole, the popular vote would have both been around 49.2%. But, as everybody knows, the popular vote does not elect a president, so why even bring it up? You are also wrong on your second claim: had Perot not run in 1996, Dole would have most likely won the following states (and electoral votes):
AZ - 8
FL - 25
KY - 8
MO - 11
NV - 4
OH - 21
TN - 11 = 88 electoral votes
Clinton ended up with 379 total votes, versus Dole's 157.
Without Perot, Clinton still would have won 291-245.
To me, if you want to have a shred of credibility, come armed with facts.
Why can't we take John
February 5, 2008 - 14:30 ET by Gary P JacksonWhy can't we take John McCain at his word? You are joking right? We can't take John McCain at his word, because he is a lying back stabber!
And nice with the pill popper reference on Rush. Glad to know you've never made any mistakes or had any life defining issues!
And lastly, I think Bob Dole is very much a beloved member of the party. I don't think anyone, including Rush and Mitt, has anything but admiration for Bob Dole. But the fact is he ran an incredibly bad campaign in 1996. He was stiff, and angry. If you didn't know anything about him, you would have thought he was totally unlikeable. He even had to have his wife give numerous speeches on his behalf.
I would reiterate my
February 5, 2008 - 16:20 ET by fitzfongI would reiterate my original recommendation for you to get a grip, but it seems that you're far more in need of a clue. The suggestion that it's somehow honorable to be "working with Democrats to pass legislation" for legislation's sake is infantile and pathetic. Garbage legislation is garbage legislation and to claim that tax draining, black hole programs like "No Child Left Behind" amount to progress is ludicrous. Why don't I accept that McCain is for lower taxes when he says he is? BECAUSE HE'S NOT! John McCain is so delusional that he claims to have always been a conservative when his record and rhetoric PROVE otherwise. He never said he made a mistake...and that's a big part of the problem. Romney will admit to reaching new conclusions when he has changed positions on issues. McCain has tried to justify his original votes by LYING...claiming that he voted against them because the bill didn't include enough spending cuts?!!?!?! But previously he stated that he was against the tax cuts because they favored the rich. McCain is an admitted economic illiterate who has only now embraced the Bush Tax Cuts because he doesn't want to discuss his opposition to them. He's not credible. Period.
As for your last paragraph, I can see that the wheels have come off your wagon. When you have to reduce your argument to lame, cliched personal attacks on someone because he doesn't fall into line with your candidate, you have officially run out of gas. I pity you. You're just sad.
Dole
February 5, 2008 - 14:10 ET by iveseenitallRight. Dole lost, in part, because of his personality. McCain's personality will also hurt him. But at least Dole was always civil and polite. McCain...'fraid not.
NEVER,NEVER trust a "liberal"
Wow, Sally, full of bile today, aintcha?
February 5, 2008 - 14:30 ET by RJIt's nice that you liked Dole as a Presidental Candidate, but that doesn't mean everyone must share your view. "Carrying water for Republican principles" didn't necessarily mean Dole would have made a good President.
So, to blame voters who thought they saw something better in Perot is incorrect. If the Republican Party had picked a better candidate, voters wouldn't have voted for a Perot....in fact, Perot probably wouldn't have run. In my case, I just sat out.
Sorry, but the blame for that election goes directly on the Republican Party king-makers who tried to stuff a poor candidate down the throat of voters (for the stupid reason that he was "next in line")....as they're trying to do now with McCain.
You sat out in '96?
February 5, 2008 - 14:48 ET by mustangsallyWow, that was very courageous of you. Are you going to tell your grandkids that? I had a chance to register a vote against "Slickmeister" Bill Clinton in 1996 and vote for a principled, ethical, decorated conservative like Bob Dole, but I JUST SAT OUT ...
Way to to go buddy ...
That's all you got from my post, Sally?
February 5, 2008 - 15:03 ET by RJA little selective outrage going there? Or maybe a little more than you bargained for?
Damn right I sat out, and I'll be proud to tell my grandkids that I'm not a robot who will vote as I'm ordered to vote. I was pissed off, and, for me, sitting out was a bigger statement than just walking in like a good little conservative.
Just because the kingmakers at the Republican Party selected the "next in line" it doesn't mean I have to play Cuban or Iraqi (when Saddam was in power) and shuffle in to dutifully cast my vote. Maybe that turns you on, but not me.
"...who expended all of his energies on preserving his opinions from contamination." -Michael Chabron, "Gentlemen of the Road"
Bob Dole says
February 5, 2008 - 14:04 ET by Lame CherryBob Dole says that Bob Dole says that John McCain is a good guy Bob Dole says in that Bob Dole says that Rush Limbaugh Bob Dole says should stop what Bob Dole says is Rush Limbaugh attacking what Bob Doles says is John McCain.
Newsbusters needs to acquire one Norm McDonald who portrayed Bob Dole and is a very nice gentleman, intelligent, patriotic to do a celeb post when he wants to on here.
If WND can get Chuck Norris and Pat Boone, a little commentary from Norm and good people like him stating the things they believe would be good for this site.
as Bob Dole says.........
*HIC IACET ARTORIVS REX QVONDAM REXQVE FVTVRVS
I think McCain's campaign used Sen. Dole to go after Rush.
February 5, 2008 - 14:36 ET by R D HelmAfter listening to what Rush had to say about all this, and after reading the letter itself (which bears little resemblence to what the MSM has been portraying) and with all due respect to Sen. Dole, it appears that he has paid scant, if any, real attention to the antics of his friend and former colleague, Sen. John McCain, since he left the Senate in 1996.
Much has happened concerning Sen McCain in the twelve years since Mr. Dole retired from the senate.
Very little of it can be described as having been good for the conservative movement.
None are so hopelessly enslaved as those who falsely believe they are free. -J.W. von Goethe
Romney trashes Dole ...
February 5, 2008 - 15:02 ET by mustangsallyWhat troubles me about all of this is Romney's reaction. Rush reported that Romney said the "last" Republican he would want endorsing him is Bob Dole.
Now, it is one thing to take a swipe at John McCain - have at it ..
But it is entirely unnecessary and unfair to drag Bob Dole into the mud. As suspected, like every other Massacheusetts candidate before, the mud is Romney's natural habitat ...
rolls eyes
February 5, 2008 - 15:16 ET by candanceFirst of all, no one dragged Bob Dole into this. He voluntarily wrote a letter to someone in the media and then told McCain's people all about it. Then he went on H&C himself to explain it. If Dole didn't want to be "in the middle" he shouldn't have told McCain about the letter.
And yes, if I were running for prez, Dole's endorsement would not exactly be exciting. Being a war hero is honorable, but it is not enough. Kerry was a veteran too. Andrew Jackson was a veteran. Al Gore served in Vietnam. That is honorable, but it does not entitle you to be president.
And if you think the Clinton machine won't attack McCain, you're naive.
Bob Dole and Mitt Romney
February 5, 2008 - 15:28 ET by mustangsallyBob Dole deserves respect from conservatives for more than being a war hero. He is an honorable, trustworthy man who spoke for minority conservatism for many years (against the Clinton machine and the MSM).
Remember, Romney was still a flaming Massachusetts liberal back when Bob Dole was the Republican standard-bearer. And he has the audacity to trash Bob Dole?!!!
Romney isn't "trashing"
February 5, 2008 - 15:37 ET by PommeRomney isn't "trashing" Dole! He said Dole was the last Republican he'd want batting for him because of the campaign he ran in '96. He's allowed to have that opinion as it is shared by many.
Dole said on H&C last night he has no dog in this fight.
The media is misreporting the letter by leaving out the last bits of it. (No shock there.)
McCain's camp is using Dole to benefit them. (Again no shock.)
Spouting against Romney has the same effect on us as us spouting against McCain has on you.
MSS, I did not take Mitt's response as a slap against Dole..
February 5, 2008 - 15:34 ET by R D Helm..but against Dole's campaign against Clinton - a campaign that was memorable in only how mind-numbingly dull it was. I do not perceive Mitt Romney as being stupid enough to be critical of Sen. Dole for any other reason, which, given the comments Sen. McCain made about Romney, is why I suspect the McCain campaign was in on this from the very start.
Just because Sen. Dole was a war hero, which he certainly was, that does not put him above criticism should he decide to inject himself into a political campaign.
John McCain needs to consider this carefully, as he himself appears to put himself above criticism for the exact same reason at times.
None are so hopelessly enslaved as those who falsely believe they are free. -J.W. von Goethe
Look, Romney did NOT trash
February 5, 2008 - 15:35 ET by Gary P JacksonLook, Romney did NOT trash Bob Dole. He merely told it like it was, only to have the "straight talk express" try and make hay of it.
McCain is one of the most dishonest people I have ever seen run for office.
Riddle me this Sally girl, if McCain is such a great Republican and all, and deserves our blind loyalty, how do you explain away the fact that he almost jumped in bed with John Friggin' Kerry just 4 short years ago????
He wants OUR loyalty, when in fact he has PROVEN he has ZERO loyalty to us! John McCain is in it for John McCain, and no one else!
Told it like is was?
February 5, 2008 - 16:39 ET by mustangsallyRomney, may have "told it like it was" but he has now apologized to Bob Dole:
"Mitt Romney told reporters that Dole was “a war hero, a fine man and a great
leader for our party.”
cf. "Romney Clarifies
Remark On Bob Dole" at http://www.cbsnews.c...
One more Romney flip/flop ...
Sorry, Sally...CBS didn't call it an "apology."
February 5, 2008 - 16:59 ET by RJWell, aren't you the rigid and untruthful little thing.
So no one is allowed to expand on their statements without being accused of a "flip-flop?" That's a pretty narrow little world you live in, Sally.
And, sorry....your link to CBS didn't characterize it as an "apology"....apparently, that was all YOU.
"He was a would-be sharp operator who lacked for the satisfaction of his ambition only the quality of sharpness..." -Michael Chabon, "
And, interestingly, she now
February 5, 2008 - 17:07 ET by motherbeltAnd, interestingly, she now characterizes an apology (which she said it was) as a "flip-flop."
Maybe she works for
February 5, 2008 - 17:09 ET by bigtimerMaybe she works for McCain...or it is Debra....lol!
RJ
February 5, 2008 - 17:09 ET by candanceI am convinced that Sally is a McCain operative who doesn't really care about anything but bashing those who complain about him.
In one post she says NCLB was a good program and working with Democrats is great - and then she threatens us with Hillary's big government.
She accuses us of unfairly attacking McCain, but she calls Rush a pill popper and hurredly throws up a Romney "flip flop" from a very weak point.
She got the wrong date for when Dole ran, which shows she's not an educated voter.
McCain's website is calling for all his "foot soldiers" to flood talk radio, the blogosphere, etc to stop the resistance.
Thus I fear our friend sally is little more than a puppet for the Borg.
candance... ROFL... GMTA or
February 5, 2008 - 17:12 ET by bigtimercandance...
ROFL...
GMTA or some-such...
PDQ, RSVP, and
February 5, 2008 - 18:07 ET by Ruths husband BenPDQ, RSVP, and TGIF!
-EGBDF
(that's for making me google GMTA, 'cause I have a NSGM)
Those are good observations, Dee
February 5, 2008 - 17:17 ET by RJYou could be right. We've had many levels of "operatives" come through here....from many leftists pretending to be conservative to a MoveOn guy (his name was "wolf" something or other) pushing Ned Lamont here in CT.
Is this one of those blogs ...
February 5, 2008 - 17:57 ET by mustangsally...where if you disagree and present a different point of view you are called a "lurker" or an "operative"? Apparently so. I must say - you folks are seriously paraniod.
If having voted for McCain makes me an "operative", than I am one. I believe,
1. A Hillary or Obama presidency would be a disasterous for our Nation.
2. John McCain is a "maverick" Republican who is right about the issues I care about most - life, marriage, taxes, foreign policy - and the best suited to defeat HillObam.
3. Romney is an opportunistic Massacheusetts politician, who has flipped on all the major issues for political expediency - and who cannot beat HillObam.
4. Rush is an overrated windbag who cares more about his professional viability than conservative principles.
You don't have to agree, but I think you should!
No, Sally, it's not.
February 5, 2008 - 18:07 ET by OldSailor88This is one of those blogs where you can't get away with a talking point. All of us have been stepped on at one time or another, but we take the hit and move on. All we ask is that you post intelligently and back it up with legitimate information. No talking points, and no moonbad AFDB wearing conspiracy theories. It also helps if you are on the conservative side. Because, McCain is not conservative. He is pro amnesty(McCain/Kennedy) and against the first amendment (McCain/Feingold). That's why you are taking a hit here.
Stultus est sicut stultus facit
No, Sally, we thrive on disagreement
February 5, 2008 - 18:09 ET by RJ...but you jumped in here with bile-filled attitude, name calling and even misrepresentations. What did you expect, to be greeted with "hosannas?"
"He was a would-be sharp operator who lacked for the satisfaction of his ambition only the quality of sharpness..." -Michael Chabon, "
Sorry ...
February 5, 2008 - 18:29 ET by mustangsallyI forgot that bile-filled, attitude, name calling and misrepresentations ..
is Rush's job ...
and he does it so well!
Got any examples, Sally?
February 5, 2008 - 18:32 ET by RJI mean, we have lots of examples from you, so how about a few examples from Rush...or are your assertions nothing but hear-say from the media?
Say, here's a tip: Media Matters hates Rush as much as you...bet you can find lots of misrepresentations over on their site..... ;^)
"He was a would-be sharp operator who lacked for the satisfaction of his ambition only the quality of sharpness..." -Michael Chabon, "
Sally, it's been asked, but
February 5, 2008 - 18:43 ET by Gary P JacksonSally, it's been asked, but as yet you seem unable to answer the most fundamental question in this entire back and forth. Tell, me, just how does your candidate, John McCain, earn conservative's trust when we can't even trust that he would have always been a Republican? He's NEVER been a conservative!
You call Mitt Romney an "opportunistic Massacheusetts politician", and yet it is John McCain who talked seriously with John Kerry, you know, a liberal dimocrat, about being the dim VP candidate less than 4 years ago. You talk about opportunistic!
So tell me again what a great Republican conservative old John is. When every other conservative in the country was trying to help George Bush send Kerry back to the ketchup factory, "reliable conservative" John McCain was looking at teaming up with him! If that's conservative, I want to be something else.
Come on Sally, keep pissin' on my shoes and trying to tell me it's raining!
And while you're at it, contrast this for me. Mitt Romney married his High School sweetheart. Ann Romney has MS. Thankfully, she is in remission. I have two cousins with it, and it is a horrific disease. Very crippling, and very frustrating. Mitt Romney is still very much married to Ann.
On the other hand, your boy, McCain ran around on his sick wife, dumping her for young, rich new one. Explain to me again how it's Mitt Romney who is the opportunistic one!
Also, Mitt Romney has worked to earn his vast fortune. He's an extremely successful business man. John McCain, like his almost 2004 running mate John Kerry, got his money the really old fashioned way, he married it.
So tell me again Sally, why is John McCain so much better?
Great Points Gary - Romney lives True Values. You can often
February 5, 2008 - 18:58 ET by Dee Bunkmeasure the character of a man by the way he treats his wife.
Exactly. McCain has proved
February 6, 2008 - 00:54 ET by Gary P JacksonExactly. McCain has proved time in time out that he cannot be trusted. He will screw you over at the drop of a hat. I don't trust him as far as I can throw him, which ain't far!
The Clintons must go ...
February 5, 2008 - 19:24 ET by mustangsallyMcCain is reliably pro-life (Romney is a convert) and he can beat Hillary (Romney can't).*
*Defeating Hillary is the ultimate conservative principle (after the "life" principle).
Sally... Your arguing
February 5, 2008 - 19:37 ET by Clear thinkerSally...
Your arguing from a position that says Hillary is the one to beat. Well I hate to break it to ya, but neither John or Mitt will be able to beat Obama.
The Conservative movement is about to be reborn.
Clear thinker, you're not thinking Clearly
February 5, 2008 - 20:02 ET by JayTeeThis is February.........and for you to say John or Mitt can't beat Obama the empty headed Orator, you are forcasting the Future months before you have enough info to preach that outcome in advance.
Obama and Hillary have not been in a Republican Debate, they couldn't stand up to questions from a boy scout troop, they're on the wrong side of the war.....which by Sept. '08 could be suspended to their dis-belief.... and they don't have any credientials or accomplishments since being Senators.
IMO, I don't believe we have the facts in Feb. for this type of Forecasting.
Jay Tee... You may be
February 5, 2008 - 20:06 ET by Clear thinkerJay Tee...
You may be right, then again you may not be.
I'm going to put this day on my calender and mark it saying I picked Obama. We will look at it again in November. Fair enough?
The Conservative movement is about to be reborn.
Clear picker...
February 5, 2008 - 20:16 ET by JayTeeyou can pick your Girfriend, or you can pick your Nose, But DON"T you EVER pick Obamarama. Mr. B-HO will be the easiest to beat.
He can't explain why he took the Senatorial Flag pin off his lapel and make the Boy Scouts feel good about his explanation.
The Obamarama Surge is NOT because he is such a fine candidate, it's because Hillary has so many negatives. The SURGE is against Hillary, not for Obama.
But keep your Calendar date, wait 6 months, and make a new Informed prediction.
Jay Tee... I never said
February 5, 2008 - 22:33 ET by Clear thinkerJay Tee...
I never said Obama is a fine candidate, personally, I think he sucks almost as bad as Hillary. And I don't think he can win on substance, but he will win on style.
First of all, we are left with some lousy picks on the Republican side, but could have a chance at winning if we had better choices and did not have to go up against an inspirational orator. Obama knows how to make a speech and get the Dem faithful to rise to their feet. This is what any of our guys will be up against come November, and this is why I think he will win. Our side has lost whatever inspiration it had left.
The Conservative movement is about to be reborn.
Ct,
February 6, 2008 - 01:54 ET by R D HelmI do not think they can beat Broom Hilda, either.
None are so hopelessly enslaved as those who falsely believe they are free. -J.W. von Goethe
If you are picking a
February 6, 2008 - 01:01 ET by Gary P JacksonIf you are picking a candidate just because you perceive the can beat Hillary, you are just plain dumb. And it is a long time before the general election. Anybody can beat anybody.
I am very curious. Why do you keep dodging the question about John McCain's near defection to the dim party. That would have been the flip flop of all flip flops!
The man can't be loyal to his wives, and is not even loyal to the party he claims to be such a leader in.
I would not vote for John McCain if life itself was at stake! He is a dirty liar.
MS,
February 6, 2008 - 01:59 ET by R D Helm*Defeating Hillary is the ultimate conservative principle
Not if it means the destruction of the conservative movement along with the Republican Party.
After all, Billy Jeff was essentially contained, and Broom Hilda can be as well. And what is more, I think the Republican Party will be in a much better position for it, too, further down the road.
None are so hopelessly enslaved as those who falsely believe they are free. -J.W. von Goethe
dp
February 6, 2008 - 07:07 ET by Britcomdp
You are going against history if you cast your vote for McCain..
February 6, 2008 - 07:03 ET by BritcomBoth Hillary and Obama are Senators.
No Senator has ever beaten a Governor in the General election since Warren G. Harding was elected over a hundred years ago, and Harding also was previously a Lt. Governor.
Every time a Governor has run against a Senator, the Governor has won (in the General Election) if we fail to nominate a Governor to run against the Dems Senator, we would be tossing away a proven advantage for an even matchup with the advantage going to Hillary because she was a First Lady of both a State, and the US. If it is McCain vs. Obama, it will be a dead heat.
The only safe choice is to nominate a Governor, we have two to choose from. History shows a Governor has a measurable advantage in the General Election.
Americans of both parties like to vote for Governors.
McCain is reliably Pro-Life? Are you delusional?
February 6, 2008 - 07:34 ET by PopularTechJohn McCain Supports Embryonic Stem Cell Research (Audio)
McCain Softens Abortion Stand (The Washington Post)
"But certainly in the short term, or even the long term, I would not support repeal of Roe v. Wade, which would then force X number of women in America to [undergo] illegal and dangerous operations." - John McCain
The Anti 'Man-Made' Global Warming Resource
Pro-Life, Pro-McCain
February 6, 2008 - 10:29 ET by mustangsallyA candidate with an unmatchable record on life issues.
http://article.natio...
"It is a poverty to decide that a child must die so that you may live as you
wish." -Mother Teresa
Dole-ing it out...
February 5, 2008 - 18:28 ET by goldenthroatIs it any wonder why this man never made to the White House? Get out Dan Quayle's book "Standing Firm" and see what he says about this over-the-hill fossilized RINO.
Now Dole thinks he can manipulate El Rushbo.
Not.
"Yeah! That's the ticket!" - Tommy Flanagan
Rush Limbaugh and John McCain
February 5, 2008 - 18:44 ET by johnbarryI know that I will be devoured for what I am going to post here. So be it. I do not agree with John McCain on everything but as a war hero he deserves better than what he is getting here.
What is Rush Limbaughs war record? Has he put his life on the line for the US? The man is not God. Limbaugh is not always correct. In actual fact I have yet to meet the perfect conservative. I know conservatives were angry when McCain opposed the Bush Tax cuts. And I can understand why. However they forget that he linked his opposition to the deficit. As far as I am aware true conservatives support a balanced budget. Borrowing is deferred taxation.
Bob Dole has been trashed here. Bob could argue that got more votes than Rush Limbaugh will ever get. Much of what Dole states re McCain is fundamentally sound. He supports a balanced budget. He supports a strong national security. He will appoint conservative judges. These are all good conservative issues. Some of the debate here has degenerated here into a discussion on right wing ideological purity. I agree that a candidate must have some fundamental beliefs to guide him/her. Incidentally there are varying shades of conservatism. A broadly conservative approach is the correct one.
However 95% of the electorate has little interest in ideological purity. Such voters are concerned with the problems of day to day living-inflation, mortgages, education, health care and employment. Voters will elect the candidate who in their opinion addresses these issues best.
I once more return to the British Conservative Party which tore itself asunder on ideology and has lost the last the last three general elections. Opposition is a lonely place. You can rave and rant all you like but you must control the levers of power to achieve your goals. Even the British Conservative Party now realises this.
If Hillary is elected President the liklihood is that she will be re-elected in four years time. The same applies to Obama.The Clintons know how to keep a grip on power. We will have the appalling vista- A Democratic President and a Democratic Congress.
Even Conservatives who have misgivings about McCain-and I have some- should realise that half a loaf is better than no bread. They have some prospect of fulfilling their dreams under a McCain Presidency. They have none under a Clinton or Obama Presidency. To all Republicans I say unite or linger in the political wilderness for decades.
You sound like a liberal.
February 5, 2008 - 18:54 ET by Gary P JacksonYou sound like a liberal. You think because Rush, or anyone else, never served they aren't allowed to disagree with Bob Dole, or John McCain? That's exactly the kind of crap we hate liberals for. It's just like throwing Christopher Reeve or Micheal J Fox out there!
And with McCain, we aren't getting "half a loaf of bread". We aren't even getting a 1/4 of a loaf. The man is consistently against EVERYTHING we are for. Voting for him or Hillary would get us to the same spot. I'm not even sure they'd be all that different on the war. McCain and Hillary both want to close Gitmo, "so the rest of the world will love us again." And I doubt once she is in office, Hillary will cut and run from Iraq. She won't want to be seen as the one who screwed that up.
I'd much rather have Hillary try and make a mess of things than have McCain screw it up, thus ushering in another 40 years of dimocrat rule!
Republicans only win when they are conservative, and John isn't one.
I am no liberal.
February 5, 2008 - 19:29 ET by johnbarryI am no liberal. I detest the Democratic party-The party of partial birth abortion, socialised medicine bureaucracy high taxation and the Daily Kos.
McCain is correct on the deficit. Would you prefer that the US would continue to borrow from the Chinese? Voting for McCain is not the same as voting for Hillary. Clinton is a Socialist. She is left of centre. McCain is not. He is a moderate Conservative. He is pragmatic.
Many conservatives were originally critical of Ronald Reagan also. He confounded his critics. Similarly McCain can win independent and conservative Democratic votes.
If you would prefer to elect a Democratic President with a price tag of $800 billion dollars go ahead and elect him/her. Such a president will raise taxes directly or by stealth to pay for the grandiose promises.
McCain has military experience. I would trust him on security matters before I would trust Clinton. Hilarious Hillary is a waffler and a bluffer. McCain is a straight talker. He is not perfect.
Some conservatives cannot allow for differences of opinion within conservatism. There are varying shades of conservatism. No one is infallible on political matters not even Limbaugh.
Conservatives who abstain or vote Democrat promote Socialism
As a conservative, I never
February 6, 2008 - 01:08 ET by Gary P JacksonAs a conservative, I never had a bad word for Renaldus Magnus. Ronald Reagan is a great inspiration to us all. John McCain is a lousy snivelling little shit!
Everything you say the Socialist party will do if elected, is the same thing McCain will do. McCain is anti-business, just like the Socialists.
The big deal though, is McCain just cannot be trusted. I would never, ever vote for John McCain. All things being equal, I trust Hillary Clinton far more than John McCain!
To begin with, johnbarry, McCain is untrustworthy
February 5, 2008 - 19:05 ET by RJThat is demonstrated in his repeate courting the Democrats in defiance of Republicans' efforts. A few examples:
His "reasons" for opposing the tax cuts keep changing. Considering that he worked to reduce our free speech rights, what makes you think he won't side with the Democrats to do the same with talk radio and reinstitute the "Fairness Doctrine?" (He's petty and vindictive enough to do just that.) He tried to sneak an amnesty bill past Americans and called them "racist" when they rose up and challenged him. When recently asked if he would sign the same bill, he ducked and said, over and over, "don't worry, that bill won't come again." What makes you think McCain would appoint conservative judges, since he's said that he disagrees with the appointment of Alito?
Regarding his and Dole's service, I'm a vet from a family of vets and while I applaud their service, when it comes to choosing a President, I don't give a damn about that. I actually find it distasteful that McCain keeps using it in his campaign. Therefore, I think it's foolish and disingenuous, as you have done, to denigrate others' opinions because they haven't been in the military.
I could go on and on, but you get the picture. McCain is a poor choice for President.
Here's your choice for Republican candidate:
"I believe my party has gone astray. I think the Democratic Party is a fine party, and I have no problems with it, in their views and their philosophy." - John McCain
To begin with, RJ, Romney is untrustworthy
February 5, 2008 - 19:33 ET by Clear thinkerMitt Romney has flip flopped more than John Kerry and that is NOT meant as a compliment. Is this the kind of guy you want?
The Conservative movement is about to be reborn.
What it comes down to, Clear
February 6, 2008 - 13:55 ET by RJIs that you think you can't trust a Mormon, while I think I can't trust a Democrat.
"I really like Mike Huckabee." -uber lib Mika Brezinski
RJ... Here you go again.
February 6, 2008 - 14:11 ET by Clear thinkerRJ...
Here you go again. Show me where I said anything negative about him being a Mormon.
For the hundreth time... I do not care what the candidates religion is. It has no bearing on my decision for POTUS!
The Conservative movement is about to be reborn.
"for the hundredth time"
February 6, 2008 - 14:23 ET by RJWell, I haven't seen that even once, clear, but if it's true, I apologize for my stab at cynical humor. It's just that facile, superficial generalizations like the one you made sometimes bring out a devilish streak. :^)
"I really like Mike Huckabee." -uber lib Mika Brezinski
Ok RJ.... Here's my
February 6, 2008 - 14:26 ET by Clear thinkerOk RJ....
Here's my facile generalizations:
Top Romney Flip Flops
1. Abortion
In October 2002, campaigning for governorship of Massachusetts, Mitt Romney said he would "preserve and protect" a woman's right to choose. He now describes himself as opposing abortion.
2. Gay Rights
In a 1994 letter to the Log Cabin Republicans, who advocate gay rights, Romney said he was in favor of "gays and lesbians being able to serve openly and honestly" in the military. He now says it would be a mistake to interfere with the "don't ask, don't tell policy."
3. Gun Control
Campaigning for the Senate in 1994, Romney said he favored strong gun laws and did not "line up with the NRA." He signed up for "lifetime membership" of the NRA in August 2006 while pondering a presidential run, praising the group for "doing good things" and "supporting the right to bear arms."
4. Campaign Finance
In 1994, Romney advocated a spending limit on congressional elections and abolition of political action committees. In 2002, he supported public financing of campaigns from a 10 percent tax on private fund-raising. In 2008, he attacked the McCain-Feingold law limiting campaign contributions as an attack on free speech.
5. Immigration
In a November 2005 interview with the Boston Globe, he described immigration reform proposal advanced by McCain as "reasonable." He now denounces it as an "amnesty plan." In December 2006, he signed agreement authorizing state troopers to round up illegal immigrants.
The Conservative movement is about to be reborn.
THIS is the real John McCain, Clear
February 6, 2008 - 14:43 ET by RJ"I believe my party has gone astray. I think the Democratic Party is a fine party, and I have no problems with it, in their views and their philosophy." -John McCain
Can you find anything even vaguely similar from Romney?
This is a man who repeatedly courts the Democrats, often in defiance of Republicans. And here's just a few more reasons that McCain is untrustworthy and far more dangerous as a POTUS than Romney. A few examples:
Considering that he worked to reduce our free speech rights, what makes you think he won't side with the Democrats to do the same with talk radio and reinstitute the "Fairness Doctrine?" (He's petty and vindictive enough to do just that.) He tried to sneak an amnesty bill past Americans and called them "racist" when they rose up and challenged him. When recently asked if he would sign the same bill, he ducked and said, over and over, "don't worry, that bill won't come again." His "reasons" for opposing the tax cuts continue to change. What makes you think McCain would appoint conservative judges, since he's said that he disagrees with the appointment of Alito? Are you happy that he would close Gitmo and give terrorists constitutional rights?
I could go on and on, but you get the picture. McCain is a poor choice for President.
RJ... Maybe this will
February 6, 2008 - 14:50 ET by Clear thinkerRJ...
Maybe this will help....
Top McCain Flip Flops
1. Taxes
McCain was one of two Republican senators to vote against the Bush tax cuts of 2001, saying that he coult not support a tax cut that went to rich Americans rather than middle class Americans. He now favors making the tax cuts permanent.
2. Religious Right
During the 2002 election campaign, McCain attacked Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson as "agents of intolerance." He withdrew that remark in a 2006 interview with Meet the Press, saying that the Christian Right had a "major role to play in the Republican party."
3. Immigration
Last year, McCain sponsored a bill that would combine a temporary worker program and path to citizenship for many illegal immigrants with increased border security. But he now puts the emphasis on securing the borders first.
4. Roe vs Wade
In August 1999, McCain told the San Francisco Chronicle that he would "not support repeal of Roe vs Wade" because it would force women to undergo illegal operations. He has subsequently said that he was speaking about the need to change the "culture of America", and supports the repeal of Roe vs Wade.
5. Ethanol
In 2003, McCain said that ethanol "does nothing to reduce fuel consumption, nothing to increase our energy independence, nothing to improve air quality." Campaigning in Iowa in August 2006, he described ethanol as a "vital alternative energy source, not only because of our dependency on foreign oil but its greenhouse reduction effects." Yesterday, in Massachusetts, he reverted to his anti-ethanol position.
The Conservative movement is about to be reborn.
As the saying goes, politics
February 5, 2008 - 19:36 ET by fitzfongAs the saying goes, politics is a contact sport. Everyone hits, everyone gets hit. It's ridiculous to suggest that because John McCain spent more than 5 years as a POW in Vietnam, we should simply excuse him for his last 21 years in the Senate. If military service trumps everything, as your post would suggest, why don't we just let Randy "Duke" Cunningham, a war hero, out of prison for his misdeeds? I object to McCain having to fall back on his military service (and that of his supporters) to protect himself from scrutiny every time he's asked to defend his Senatorial Record. What difference does it make that Rush Limbaugh didn't serve in the military? He has every right to criticize John McCain for his policy shortcomings and his bullying tactics. We all know why John McCain wants to shut Rush Limbaugh, Mark Levin, Sean Hannity, Laura Ingraham and others up...he is a WEAK candidate with MANY policy vulnerabilities, and he wants to ascend to the Presidency without facing his shameful Senatorial Record. The more questions are asked of his record, the harder it's going to be for him to accomplish his ultimate goal. And he resents those of us who would deny him a coronation without legitimate hurdles...so he wants to shut off all dissent...remember McCain-Feingold? For those of you who are so caught up in this "shut up, stop criticizing McCain because he served in the Military and he knows what's best for us" mentality...remember, there's an aging military man with McCain's "don't question me" attitude running a country about 90 miles off the coast of Florida.
John McCain
February 5, 2008 - 20:43 ET by johnbarryI have lost count of Mitt Romneys u-turns. Is he not a weak candidate? I admire McCains stance on the deficit. He did not court popularity. That took guts. I do not suggest that he is perfect. However he has invaluable military experience. This is a sine qua non for a country that is a target for Jihadists. No security no country no economy.There is no perfect conservative. If you want a perfect conservative go back to Barry Goldwater. We all know what happened to him. Please do not accuse me of Liberalism. In an election year conservatives must reach out to the centre ground to win. It is a matter of tactics.
If Romney wins the nomination good luck to him. Actually Mike Huckabee is my favourite candidate.
In the words of Benjamin Franklin " We must hang together, gentlemen...else, we shall most assuredly hang separately"
John McCain is an ECONOMIC
February 5, 2008 - 22:24 ET by fitzfongJohn McCain is an ECONOMIC ILLITERATE. His recent claim to have been against the Bush Tax Cuts because he was some kind of deficit hawk was a boldfaced lie...and idiotic, to boot. At the time, he engaged in the populist rhetoric of class envy, suggesting he didn't support the tax cuts because they favored the rich, then when he realized that he was going to have to answer for his opposition (putting him in the esteemed company of one "Republican"...Lincoln Chafee) he changed course and claimed he opposed them because there weren't spending cuts to accompany the tax cuts. Tax rate cuts increase tax revenues to the Treasury (more jobs created, more taxpayers, more investment, etc.), so tax cuts are not related to spending reductions. Spending cuts are a separate issue from tax cuts, but liberals like to tie them together, dishonestly suggesting that reductions in tax rates result in less money to the Treasury and thus deficit spending (as spending cuts are "fixed"...they will not accept spending cuts to decrease the deficit). I don't think John McCain's public exhibition of his own ignorance "took guts". I think he should educate himself on how an economy works before lecturing everyone on tax policy. Mitt Romney has run several highly successful businesses and was an executive in the government. McCain is a legislator who couldn't be bothered with budgets, inflows and outflows. Unlike Mitt Romney, the only way McCain knows how to build wealth is the John Kerry method...acquisition (marry a rich woman). The "u-turns" that Romney has taken have at least been plausible...he's acknowledged that he was wrong before and has changed his position. McCain, on the other hand, has played cheap semantic games to avoid taking responsibilty for his liberalism and to maintain his claim to conservatism (remember the "call it a banana if you want" retort when he insisted he wasn't proposing amnesty when he was?). He's built his house on quicksand in that regard, I'm afraid. By the way, I don't know where you got the idea that anyone called you a liberal...though I might have to reconsider that one after you said that your favorite Republican candidate was none other than that religion-baiting parasite Mike Huckabee.
You Rush Babies wouldn't vote for Ike today!
February 5, 2008 - 19:23 ET byYou Rush Babies wouldn't vote for Ike today.
Rush: "He doesn't want to drill the Arctic National
Wildlife Refuge, he thinks it's for the bears, how adorable .. he wants
to blow billions on some crazy 'Interstate Highway' system, like the
one Hitler built that no one uses. He's a RINO who talks badly of the
military industrial complex. Sure he's a war hero but that's history;
we don't like war heroes -- they make us Chicken Hawks feel bad."
Go ahead drink his OxiContin Kool-Aid but get used to hearing "President Hillary Clinton."
McAmnesty is a lib Supreme
February 5, 2008 - 19:29 ET byMcAmnesty is a lib
Supreme Court, National Security, Borders, Fiscal Restraint, my litmus test for President.
Pizza Boy...
February 5, 2008 - 19:29 ET by Clear thinkerI am in no way a supporter of the Democrat party, but Hillary ain't got a prayer. Obama will end up kicking her fat butt!
The Conservative movement is about to be reborn.
Look, it's already been 30
February 5, 2008 - 19:34 ET by fitzfongLook, it's already been 30 minutes. Get back to work, slacker.
I'm at my favorite ladies
February 5, 2008 - 20:04 ET byI'm at my favorite ladies customer's house playin on their HP Pavalone drinkin beer.
The bos is n Miami.
Three came to the door in skimpie Old Skool Conservative girl shirts. I told em I was only specting two, but three will do.
Ah, well. You're off
February 5, 2008 - 20:11 ET by fitzfongAh, well. You're off today, then. Have a good time.
Typical of liberal
February 5, 2008 - 20:40 ET by JABTypical of liberal youngsters:
"I'm at my favorite ladies customer's house playin on their HP Pavalone drinkin beer.
The bos is n Miami."
Getting paid to do a job and thinks the Boss owes him something for not doing anything productive.
and...
"Three came to the door in skimpie Old Skool Conservative girl shirts. I told em I was only specting two, but three will do."
when they realized what he was they exited stage left without another word (he left that part out).
Smart a$$ kids & the Internet...they mix like water & oil.
"Too bad Ignorance isn't painful..."
Two down, one to go. Gettin
February 5, 2008 - 21:33 ET byTwo down, one to go.
Gettin your lifetime quota in one night.
Actually, the interstate
February 7, 2008 - 17:08 ET by BDActually, the interstate Highways were built as a defense project to allow rapid movement of troops and equipment - not civilian traffic. I would vote for that three times a day if it came up.
BD
February 7, 2008 - 17:16 ET by Noel SheppardBD,
Is that true? ns
Noel, check this
February 7, 2008 - 19:56 ET by Roger the ShrubberNoel, check this out.
History dorks like me find this very interesting.
Rog and Dan
February 9, 2008 - 13:45 ET by Noel SheppardR and D,
Fascinating. Thanks. ns
Yes, Noel that is true, the
February 7, 2008 - 20:06 ET by dscottYes, Noel that is true, the Eisenhower Interstate system's original design was intended as a rapid reaction route for the army to move men and tanks in the event of war with the Soviet Union. This made the US lower 48 infinitely more difficult to invade as reinforcements would quickly be brought to bear. Like NASA's first satellites, they actually had a strategic military purpose, Eisenhower tricked the USSR into accepting the overflight of suborbital satellites under the guise of the geophysical year. Once sputnik flew, the USSR tacitly accepted any satellite overflight, even spy sats. Sneaky Ike, a true Repub, that's when they actually were Repubs. Lord Sidious / Darth Vader 2008 Long Live the Empire! Come to the Dark Side, it is your Destiny.
Bob Dole is an idiot
February 5, 2008 - 21:44 ET by WiggyBob Dole and many others ought to be ashamed of themselves for suggesting that Rush toe the Republican line and support the RINO John McCain.
The ONLY thing worse than a John McCain Presidency would be to have the other RINO Mike Huckabee as the VP.