For general discussion and debate. Possible talking point: Chavez's referendum fails:
The defeated reform package would have created new types of communal property, let Chavez handpick local leaders under a redrawn political map and suspended civil liberties during extended states of emergency. Without the overhaul, Chavez will be barred from running again in 2012.
Other changes would have shortened the workday from eight hours to six, created a social security fund for millions of informal laborers and promoted communal councils where residents decide how to spend government funds.
What does this mean to the United States, and how will media cover this monumental defeat for their hero Hugo?














Comments Policy
Of course AP calling it a
December 3, 2007 - 11:03 ET by Ken ShepherdOf course AP calling it a "reform" package is eye-rolling. It was a power-grab, plain and simple.
This is truly a victory for
December 3, 2007 - 11:07 ET by Pete WilsonThis is truly a victory for the Venezuelan people. I fear, however, it will be short lived.
As the man said, "It ain't over till its over."
Agreed...
December 3, 2007 - 11:13 ET by MightyMouthChavez is too much of a megalomaniac to let the peasants decide what is best for them.
"There are two types of people in this country; those who provide freedom and those who enjoy it." MM says...
Chavez should have got
December 3, 2007 - 16:13 ET by Chris NormanPerhaps Chavez should have got Michael J Fox to tape some campaign ads...
Chris... LOL...too late
December 3, 2007 - 16:18 ET by bigtimerChris...
LOL...too late now.
Bet there will be time in the future though...
THE FAIR TAX: WHY DO SO MANY PUNDITS GET IT WRONG???
December 4, 2007 - 12:27 ET by reelman46THE FAIR TAX: WHY DO SO MANY PUNDITS GET IT WRONG?
In the year 2007 it is quite apparent that many national commentators (pundits) of both parties failed to do their research, failed to read the FT book, failed to go beyond what others have written, failed to visit the 2 FT websites, failed to contact Neal Boortz for an answer and thus failed to do the job. The FT is the most researched tax proposal in history but they get it wrong, they are doing damage to truth. Why is that?
Doug Schexnayder, Ph.D. (theconservativecrawfish)
Have you seen this critique
December 4, 2007 - 12:36 ET by MightyMouthHave you seen this critique of the fair tax?
"There are two types of people in this country; those who provide freedom and those who enjoy it." MM says...
anti-Fair Tax rhetoric
December 4, 2007 - 20:16 ET by LionKingThe criticisms they suggest and fears they promote have not basis in reality. Several states function very successfully without a state income tax. If for some reason revenues fall short, there would never be need to add a tax or increase taxes...CUT SPENDING.
Any proposal for a new tax like a National Sales tax would have to be paired with a Balanced Budget Amendment...otherwise, we are at the mercy of our whimsical elected officials that have no TRUE understanding of real Americans.
A defeat for Chavez?
December 3, 2007 - 11:09 ET by AtillaKahunaThis is no defeat for Chavez. He will simply do what he wants without the constitutional changes.
When has a piece of paper ever stopped a despotic madman from trying to do what he wants?
Kahuna
Dang it ! X president carter got stuck helping out Putin
December 3, 2007 - 11:09 ET by upcountrywaterhe will figgure out a way to stay in power! Sniff the sulfur!
iranian uranium; iranian uranium, iranian uranium..
So when ARE the Russians going to finish the iranian atoms for peace power plant?
retry?
December 3, 2007 - 11:10 ET by rubberpelletfrancisCan Huey attempt this again, and again until the Venezuelans get it right? 51% is an amazingly low rejection rate. If he can keep attempting this, our weak MSM will be irrelevant to Venezuelans.
The spin
December 3, 2007 - 11:14 ET by KC MulvilleThe spin will be that Chavez was never a threat to begin with, since look how much he respects the political process. We were wrong about Chavez all along.
Chavez’s defeat shows that people value democracy. However, the vote wasn’t an outright slam dunk; the closeness also reveals that Venezuelans wanted Chavez to improve their international influence. They want some return for their oil investment, and we should expect that. What matters now is who will succeed Chavez, and how close Chavez will remain to the new president. If Chavez’s successor is simply a pronoun (i.e., a placeholder for Chavez until his name can come up again) then we’ll have the same problem, only indirectly. But if the successor builds his own political base, then that’s just regular democracy at work, and then I wouldn’t be too worried about Venezuela.
Just heard this on ABC radio
December 3, 2007 - 11:33 ET by Jack BauerJust heard this on ABC radio news from a certain candidate in Iowa...
Mrs Clinton. "I want a long term relationship with you people. I don't just want a one night stand."
Funny. Isn't that the exact opposite of her husband's usual pick-up line?
Darn Jack! I just finished
December 3, 2007 - 11:40 ET by bassndudeDarn Jack! I just finished breakfast!
Save a SeAL, club a liberal!!
sorry bass. not too liquid I
December 3, 2007 - 11:45 ET by Jack Bauersorry bass. not too liquid I hope. It's funny cos it's true, keep a listen out.
Jack, Can you imagine
December 3, 2007 - 11:51 ET by bassndudeJack, Can you imagine sleeping in the same bed with that woman? I mean, whats she look like in the mornings? She is no prize after TV! make up. It can only get worse, at least, I dont know how it could get any better. The woman gives ugly a new status. Like Rosie or Helen Thomas...ewww....
Save a SeAL, club a liberal!!
Bass, I'd imagine getting
December 3, 2007 - 12:17 ET by taterBass,
I'd imagine getting frostbite.
Do you realize how much it costs to run for office? More than any honest man could afford. -Montgomery Burns
Hey bass -- If Bill
December 3, 2007 - 12:35 ET by Jack BauerHey bass --
If Bill hasn't slept in that bed for at least 20 years, why should I imagine it either?
How Sad
December 3, 2007 - 11:36 ET by Gat New York. . . for Sean Penn.
And Cindy Sheehan...
December 3, 2007 - 11:56 ET by MightyMouthMaybe Chavez can go back to his former job of leading failed coups. I'm sure Penn and Sheehan would love supporting a dictator that gains power through murder and force.
"There are two types of people in this country; those who provide freedom and those who enjoy it." MM says...
Yeah, "there is no joy in
December 3, 2007 - 12:08 ET by motherbeltYeah, "there is no joy in Mudville...."
LOL
I guess they'll have to start going to Cuba again....
and on a lighter note from the Left Coast:
Burt Prelutsky is a CA columnist who writes about oddities in CA in general, and Hollywood in particular. His regular column at WorldNetDaily today contained this gem:
Your tax dollars at work: That charming crayon art your third grader drew, that "A" paper by your junior high scholar – marks of distinction on the classroom walls, right? No! They're fire hazards!
At least one California school is following Wisconsin's lead and tearing down kids' work, limiting classroom postings to state-mandated materials.
Did you need another reason to get your kid out of the public schools? Here you go.
Let the fun begin....
December 3, 2007 - 11:48 ET by Prester John"'...well, now the fun part starts,' Mrs. Clinton said, punctuating the word 'fun.'"
Senator Clinton, telling reporters in Cedar Rapids about her plans to attack Democrats from now until the Iowa caucuses. [NYT, 12/2/07]
From Obama's website
http://hillaryattacks.barackobama.com/
Let the gloves come off!
Clinton Release: "In
December 3, 2007 - 12:07 ET by motherbeltFrom your link I got this:
Clinton Release: "In kindergarten, Senator Obama wrote an essay titled 'I Want to Become President. 'Iis
Darmawan, 63, Senator Obama's kindergarten teacher, remembers him as an
exceptionally tall and curly haired child who quickly picked up the
local language and had sharp math skills. He wrote an essay titled, 'I
Want To Become President,' the teacher said." [AP, 1/25/0
The ADL, in debunking the claim that Obama was schooled in a Madrassa, says that In fact, from ages 6 through 10, he attended a public school in Indonesia with both Muslim and non-Muslim students.
So Obama was going to school in Indonesia and dreaming about being President of the US? And when did kindergarten kids start writing essays?
Can you say "Willing suspension of disbelief"?
Interesting statement "five
December 3, 2007 - 12:34 ET by Dan The Man 2Interesting statement "five state-sanctioned religions" taht tells me taht the country is Muslim dominated and the state makes sure there are no contradicting views. It is not secular like in teh USA but more like those in Somalia.
Nuke em til they glow then shoot em in the dark.
I wonder if he named his
December 3, 2007 - 12:45 ET by Jack BauerI wonder if he named his Teddy Bear Mohammed?
Erin Burnett's apology for insulting President Bush
December 3, 2007 - 12:11 ET by RJHere's a link to her apology. It sounds sincere. As I said several times, it was an inappropriate joke, but it didn't come across, in context, in the nasty manner of those afflicted with BDS.
Her apology, a nearly unique thing from any media person, backs that up.
RJ
December 3, 2007 - 12:56 ET by drillanwrDA-YAMMM!!!
And on Matthews's show too!
A first for MSNBC ... and the stinking MSM in general ... and collectively.
Kudoes to Erin Burnett! A class act(ion) ...
RJ I'm glad she apologized.
December 3, 2007 - 15:38 ET by motherbeltRJ I'm glad she apologized. But I wish she had apologized to President Bush instead of to "anyone" who may have been offended.
Let's face it...he's the only one insulted. Others may be angry about it, but not offended.
I agree with you that it didn't come across as "BDS Hateful" but it was still inappropriate.
And, she showed some class.
haha, motherbelt. "The only one insulted?"
December 3, 2007 - 15:48 ET by RJ....or offended? Not according to the posts here.... :^)
I am upset, though, that I didn't get to hear her regular Morning Joe segment today...due to my cable being knocked out by an ice storm.
Given their typical banter, I'm betting Joe teased her pretty good.
Hellary would much rather be attacking Republicans
December 3, 2007 - 12:45 ET by SouthJersey1953Hellary was quoted in the Des Moines Register saying, "I have said for months that I would much rather be attacking Republicans ... because ultimately, that's what I want to do as president"
Oh boy, she wants to be Prez so that she can attack Republicans. I guess she has zero plans to try to work together to make America a better place. It amazes me that she is even considered a "front-runner."
No RINOs in '08 - Mike Huckabee is the best choice
Did anybody else watch the
December 3, 2007 - 12:49 ET by MassConservDid anybody else watch the ER episode from last Thursday, Nov. 29? I recorded it and watched it Friday night. OK, I know...
I can usually look past all that and enjoy the entertainment value of its dramas. Thursday night’s episode had a story line that really frosted my cookies, especially the way they played it out. To summarize, a factory worker was injured, but his life was saved by an “undocumented” cleaning lady who was slightly injured herself in the process. She was really played up as a hero and to add to her sympathetic and “righteous” appearance, she had a son in med school that was born in the US. On the other side, the factory worker’s son was played as the stereotypical bigoted American jerk who ignorantly blamed the factory accident on the “Illegal ALIEN!” as he put it, and tried to pick a fight with the lady’s son, who easily put the guy on the floor.
Later, the lady’s med-school son turns up in the ER, having been attacked in front of his house by guys with baseball bats and ends up dying.
All in all they did a bang up job of showing what a benefit all those “undocumented workers” are to America and how completely awful and backwards are those of us who don’t want to welcome them with open arms and wallets.
I officially gave up ER
December 3, 2007 - 13:32 ET by Hero SquadI officially gave up ER after the season finale last May where supporters of our military were portrayed as violent buffoons who shoot up anti-war rallies and cause widespread panic.
My wife still watches it, though, and she was viewing it while I was in the room (/sarc on)setting up the holiday tree (/sarc off).
I caught that little reference by the nurse who admired her for coming to try an make a better life for her family after her son died.
Reinforced my glad tidings that I've given up on the show.
*****
"There are no stupid questions. Only stupid people who ask questions." - Chris Berman
Hero -- I finally gave up
December 3, 2007 - 13:43 ET by Jack BauerHero -- I finally gave up mid-last season since watching since the pilot episode.
Just couldn't take the relentless Agit-prop it had turned into. Truly pathetic. It had always pushed it's so-called "conscience", but has gotten more loony left with each passing season.
ER's hack writers have less subtlety than those Hollywood commies in the 1930/1940s like Trumbo.
My all in one ER Episode
December 3, 2007 - 14:39 ET by Airforce_5_OWhy not just do it all in one episode:
A transvestite peace protester collapses at a code pink meeting. It is found our “victim” has a curable brain tumor but has no insurance and can’t afford the operation. Also we find the “victim” is illegal in the US but is engaged to get married to it’s lover, an Iraqi war veteran who was paralyzed by an IED, in order to become a citizen but sense gays can’t marry in the US it will never happen.
I’m sure I miss something but hey it covers most of the “I Hate Bush” writers’ crowd. Do us all a favor and fire the writer on the line and replace them. Most of the stuff on TV right now is garbage anyway.
The only thing you should feel when shooting insurgents is the rifle recoil.
You guys hung on a lot longer than I did
December 3, 2007 - 15:38 ET by drillanwrI dropped "ER" after Dr. Green died from the brain cancer ...
Just couldn't take "Abby" and her self-imposed depression and neurosis (?) any more.
These "plucked from the
December 3, 2007 - 15:57 ET by Chris NormanThese "plucked from the headlines" (with a liberal political twist) plots are almost laughable. Does ER have LawandOrderitus or does L & O suffer from ERitus?
I like the idea of the 6
December 3, 2007 - 12:49 ET by pwozI like the idea of the 6 hour workday... who wouldn't? Too bad Chavez is socialist scum on everything else he supports.. I mean FORCES.
Good one on the Venezuelans
December 3, 2007 - 13:09 ET by Trix RabbitGood one on the Venezuelans for defeating Huguito's pathologically stupid "reforms".
In the Spanish newspaper La Vanguardia (Barcelona), it read:
"He threatened everyone, as if Venezuela were his own banana plantation: Spanish banks; the opposition; Colombian president Alvaro Uribe; businessmen; oligarchs; the U.S.; Globovision; CNN; foreign correspondents; et cetera."
I'd wager that if an American newspaper or talking head called Venezuela a banana plantation, the entire third world would get their knickers in a knot and call us racists.
The article continues: "A cross between Juan Domingo Perón and Benito Mussolini, Chavez is
trying to implant a socialism about which it is only known that it will
be antidemocratic, with restrictions on freedom, on the road to
limiting human will to one single way of thought, one single ideology,
one single party, the single leader. And with Fidel Castro as the
supreme guide. Faced with this shadowy panorama, the number of
Venezuelans packing their suitcases increases."
Liberal: a power worshipper without power. George Orwell
I care not who votes, I care only who COUNTS the votes!
December 3, 2007 - 13:14 ET by tpmintxI am almost shocked to see that the Venezuelan vote went against this socialist "benevolent dictator." I can only suggest 2 possible things.
1) The voting was so strongly against him that he could only muster a fraudulent vote count of 49%.
or
2) He's going to demand a recount, and a couple more ballot boxes are going to be "discovered" somewhere in south Texas and those votes will put him over the top.
HUCKABEE! v
December 3, 2007 - 14:02 ET by vrwc13HUCKABEE!
v
you must be for higher taxes
December 3, 2007 - 14:14 ET by Conservative Voiceyou must be for higher taxes and lax illegal immigration enforcement.
CV - check this out...
December 3, 2007 - 14:24 ET by vrwc13here it is Sarc...Fiscal Conservative measurementDecember 2, 2007 - 10:48 ET by JayTee
SIte http://www.townhall.com/columnists/DickMorrisandEileenMcGann/2007/11/28/mike_huckabee_is_a_fiscal_conservative
Excerpt......on Huckabee in Ark.
In Arkansas, the income tax when he took office was 1 percent for the poorest taxpayers and 7 percent for the richest, exactly where it stood when he left the statehouse 11 years later. But, in the interim, he doubled the standard deduction and the child care credit, repealed capital gains taxes for home sales, lowered the capital gains rate, expanded the homestead exemption and set up tax-free savings accounts for medical care and college tuition.
Most impressively, when he had to pass an income tax surcharge amid the drop in revenues after Sept. 11, 2001, he repealed it three years later when he didn’t need it any longer.
etc.....
JayTee and Sarc had quite a bit to say about this yesterday...worth reading the thread...
v
Townhall spin
December 3, 2007 - 14:32 ET by Conservative VoiceI read it, and think it is spin. Conversely Mitt was over a Blue state and balanced the budget without raising taxes...hmmm I think I like Mitt's plan.
Is Mike more fiscally conservative than any of the Democrats, yes, doesn't make him a fiscal conservative. I would rather have lower taxes overall, than bigger deductions due to politicians engaging in social engineering.
And it still doesn't take away his illegal immigration record.
But in the long run...if
December 3, 2007 - 14:39 ET by vrwc13But in the long run...if Huckabee is the Republican candidate would you vote for Hillary / Obama / Edwards / or the like over him?
v
Besides, read his position on immigration on his website, and remember...is there a perfect candidate?
In the long run I will grit
December 3, 2007 - 14:51 ET by Conservative VoiceIn the long run I will grit my teeth and vote for him, unless some miracle happens and a third party candidate can actually carry the water. But for that to happen the third party person needs to have the right message and be very well known and respected. Tom Selleck? It won't happen because third party tend to be weird.
Like I said compared to Hillary, he is more fiscally conservative.
The question isn't will a strong republican not vote...rather will Huckster encourage democrats and independents to vote for him...and on that I don't think so.
ConservativeV .this is from Dick Morris, 30 yrs in Ark Politics
December 3, 2007 - 17:38 ET by JayTeeI"m sure during Rudi's years a Mayor, Taxes went up ?
Mitt Romney's Governorship Taxes went up ?
I'm trying to figure out what is diffo from Huckabee and others. Huckabee DID cut Taxes after they were raised, it not a "Hockey Stick" graph.
The only way you can be a Governor and Taxes NOT go up, is to be Governor for 1 Year....before moving on to senator ...
I'm not a Huckabee fan, I'm a Duncan Hunter Fan.....but I Question some of the "Broad Brush" painting of Huckabee.
The most condeming thing on Huckabee is some of his speeches to Ark. legislature, where he asks for Taxes to be raised on Tobacco, or any new Tax proposal he Promised he would agree to.
Did Dick say taxes went up
December 3, 2007 - 17:51 ET by Conservative VoiceDid Dick say taxes went up in NY and MA? Not sure what you are quoting from Dick.
Yes Huck did lower taxes after three years when he felt they were no longer necessary...but he advocated for higher taxes...government debt is never a collection issue, its a spending one. Hence in my book he is ok with higher taxes. A governor who is for lower taxes, but got overwritten by a majority on Congress ( or forced by a judge depending on the state's laws ) that is different than a governor who advocated for.
Conservative V....ya know, I don't know about Rudi/Mitt
December 3, 2007 - 18:24 ET by JayTeeI was asking the Question hoping someone woutl know....but I find it impossible that with health care in Mass. that Romney didn't raise Taxes.
so AGAIN...why is it Huckabee is taking "Tax Hits" and Matt and Rudi only get Abortion hits ? It's like Iraq, only Bad news is published.
Well health care is
December 3, 2007 - 19:00 ET by Conservative VoiceWell health care is technically a spending issue, not a tax issue...that is if you have a budget, and you change a few things here or there, but still maintain the budget it works...or happen to make more do to a pay raise due to a better economy ( and thereby more tax revenue ) you have more to spend.
But specifically to MA, I believe the health care is just a law saying you have to have it...like auto insurance, so it isn't government care.
Mitt gets the abortion hits because people like to say he is only saying he is pro-life to get votes. And Rudy gets it because he is the only Republican who states he doesn't want to change anything.
Mike the tax hike gets hits because he has advocated higher taxes as a means to change social behavior.
Well, then it's possibly also worth reading
December 3, 2007 - 15:15 ET by sarcasmoURLs like these. Mike Huckabee's a lot of things. A fiscal conservative isn't one of 'em, no matter how much his fans desperately try to spin the issue and no matter how miserable the rest of the field of American governors also-was/is at cutting-back the size of obese government -- especially spending.
JMR
Rally online with fans of Dr. Ron Paul.
CV - Huckabee on Immigration...
December 3, 2007 - 14:30 ET by vrwc13here...
v
I couldn't get the link to
December 3, 2007 - 14:41 ET by Conservative VoiceI couldn't get the link to work, but from MikeHuckabee.com, come on vr candidate home pages are great to get a sense of what they present, but it shouldn't hold water against a person's actual record. He pushed for illegal immigrations to get a better rate on college tuition than out of state citizens. If he wants to not punish the children for the parents sin, then lower the tuition for all citizens and lower the tuition for out of country citizens that is slightly above the citizen rate. Remember those are state colleges, funded by tax payers. Government should not be the house of charity, it should be the house of all equal under the law.
Its why I have been hesitant on Fred...I like what he writes, but his record isn't all that great.
shouldn't hold water against a person's actual record...
December 3, 2007 - 14:47 ET by vrwc13"it (current position) shouldn't hold water against a person's actual record."
...and Romney's record on abortion versus his current position?
v
First, though I am against
December 3, 2007 - 15:02 ET by Conservative VoiceFirst, though I am against abortion, the abortion issue is low...taxes, illegal immigration, and the war are trump cards. ( Note taxes, border protection and war are the very things described in our constitution, that the Federal Government is authorized to manage...not morality ) President Bush is pro-life, abortion is still legal. Abortion will not be solved with politics, it will be solved with knowledge...the more people who understand what an abortion is will see that it is wrong.
Second his conversion as to why he thinks abortion is wrong is believable...where is Mike's moment of truth? He hasn't backed away from his pro-illegal immigration policies. He has embraced is pro-illegal immigration record.
Interesting that you
December 3, 2007 - 15:20 ET by vrwc13Interesting that you down-grade the issue of abortion (where Mitt has a problem) and raise up immigration (where Mike has a perceived issue).
v
...isn't that what "spinning" does?
Me thinks Huckabee has moved past Romney in Iowa beacause a real conservative has stepped in!
Mitt doesn't have a
December 3, 2007 - 15:27 ET by Conservative VoiceMitt doesn't have a problem, as he has been converted, are you saying people aren't allowed to be converted on an issue?
Second, for myself I do think abortion is an important issue but not the defining issue, because I don't see the issue solved with politics...border control, taxes, and war are responsibilities defined by the constitution...so it isn't just my opinion, its the opinion of our founding fathers. Morality laws were considered a state and local issue...not a federal one. And I will take it a step further...and maybe its because sarc is rubbing off on me...but morality requires a change of heart ( which comes from education and God )...writing a law that will never be enforced is symbolism over substance. Again vr how much has President Bush done to rid America of abortions? It will require the citizens to rid America of abortion ( or at least make it rare ) not the federal government.
What CV
December 3, 2007 - 15:34 ET by Airforce_5_ODidn't you know that all other's are allowed to change their minds but since Mitt is Mormon he must perfect? He can't have a change of heart. He must be without fault.
The only thing you should feel when shooting insurgents is the rifle recoil.
Mike could (has?) change
December 3, 2007 - 15:36 ET by vrwc13Mike could (has?) change his position on immigration. So what's your point?
v
My point...
December 3, 2007 - 15:48 ET by Airforce_5_Ois that all the canidates have a lot of ground to cover. I haven't made up my mind yet but Mike is just the flavor of the month. I want to see these guys face off in a serious debate on what they stand for NOW. Not when they were GOV of this state or that. Ronald Regan was a dem at one time and look how great a President he was.
Sarc is riding one horse Ron Paul.
You are on the Huck bandwagon.
GREAT!!!!
I am glad you made up you mind.
The question for you is, if Mitt or Rudy get the namination will you vote for them? I bet you would vote for Fred but you get Mitt or Rudy against the Dem, whose it going to be V
The only thing you should feel when shooting insurgents is the rifle recoil.
I bet you would vote for
December 3, 2007 - 15:59 ET by vrwc13I bet you would vote for Fred but you get Mitt or Rudy against the Dem, whose it going to be V ?
"Give to Caesar what is Caesar's, and give to God what is God's"
If there is not a true conservative in either major party, I would probably vote for a third party one or "write-in".
v
Forgive V?
December 3, 2007 - 16:30 ET by Airforce_5_OHow about “forgive those that trespass against you” or is that out the window too V?
He admitted it was a mistake?
Forgive or not V?
So it comes down too no conservative, you vote for a dem, because a vote for an independent is a vote for a dem. You would rather throw away a vote on a Third party candidate who has no chance and maybe let someone you know for sure would put judges in who support Roe vs Wade?
Makes perfect sense now V….
The only thing you should feel when shooting insurgents is the rifle recoil.
He admitted it was a
December 3, 2007 - 16:48 ET by vrwc13He admitted it was a mistake?
Forgive or not V?
Has he really? Or is it...
Thankfully, not everyone within the Religious Right has been duped by Mitt Romney. Janet Folger recently wrote the following about the chameleon. "And then there’s Mitt Romney, making a convenient flip from his ardent pro-abortion stance just in time to run for president.
Mitt Romney has been a consistent pro-abortion politician since entering public life. His track record is there for anyone who wants to examine it. Here are a few facts Dr. Bob should have looked at before he embarrassed himself and Bob Jones University with this stupidly naïve endorsement. According to one well-researched account, "Mitt Romney has a long history of supporting pro-abortion candidates and causes, and aggressively sought the support and endorsement of groups such as NARAL and Planned Parenthood. Indeed, Romney is still listed today as a member of the Republican Main Street Partnership, a group supported by Billionaire leftist George Soros dedicated to shifting the GOP leftward on social issues such as abortion rights and stem cell research. "Romney also has a history of assisting the careers of other prominent pro-abortion politicians. In the 1992 presidential race, Romney endorsed and voted for pro-abortion liberal Democrat Paul Tsongas in the Democratic primary and just three years ago endorsed and made a television ad for Democrat Salt Lake City mayor Rocky Anderson, a former Planned Parenthood attorney. "As Governor, he issued state proclamations honoring ’Right to Privacy Day’ which until 2005, specifically referenced the Roe vs. Wade case. "Romney repeatedly took extreme stances on abortion throughout his career and consistently made statements such as this one: ’I believe that Roe v. Wade has been the law for 20 years, that we should sustain and support it . . .’" "There simply is no doubt that Romney was one of the most pro-abortion Republican office holders in the country." See the full report at: http://www.massresistance.org/romney/prolife.html from here
Track record versus current position? Hmm, you decide.
v
V answer the question
December 3, 2007 - 17:10 ET by Airforce_5_OStill won't answer the Forgieness question? There is something deeper here besides abortion.
SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN
He did say in the debate it was a mistake.
Are you willing to forgive? Simple yes or no?
PS V, just to let you know. I like Huck but I haven't made up my mind because I will not blindly focus on one issue for this election.
For me it goes:
Imigration and War on Terror (Both are one in the same until we secure the border)
Finish the War in Iraq
Taxes
My big three and Huck is weak on one of my top ones. If he changes his stance I will listen and see if agrees with mine.
The only thing you should feel when shooting insurgents is the rifle recoil.
Still won't answer the
December 3, 2007 - 17:26 ET by vrwc13Still won't answer the Forgieness question?
Forgive? Yes. Trust? No.
v
Thanks V
December 3, 2007 - 17:37 ET by Airforce_5_OTrust is a big issue and I will give you that one but you went off to some anti-Romney site and this big rant over his record. Fine you don't trust the man just say that.
Third Party?
Can you say Madam Prez???????
The only thing you should feel when shooting insurgents is the rifle recoil.
Third Party? Can you say
December 3, 2007 - 18:02 ET by vrwc13Third Party?
Can you say Madam Prez???????
And whoose fault will that be. The dems who voted for her bitchyness, or the RINO's who put a RINO in to oppose her?
I stand on my principles, and vote on them too.
v
btw: this "anti-Romney site", is any of it not true?
Looks like you ride a one-trick pony, vrwc13
December 3, 2007 - 18:07 ET by RJYou may think you're being "principled", when you're actually the one who may give away our Constitution and our Republic. It's you narrow-minded "one way only" voters who may ultimatedly destroy the United States.
One-trick pony, RJ?
December 3, 2007 - 18:21 ET by vrwc13Nah, I just subscribe to a "one-Book only" rule.
Makes life simplier. If you have two watches, you'll never know what time it is.
v
btw: that's pretty harsh words claiming "narrow-mined" people like me may ulitimately destroy the United States. I am loyal to my country, but my ultimate loyalty lies in my Lord. And He teaches not to comprimise on my (His) principles.
What you call "harsh" is just reality, vrwc
December 3, 2007 - 18:26 ET by RJ"Give unto Caesar" vrwc. Our responsibility as citizens is to vote for those who can best (even if not perfectly) represent the best interests of our country. If you deliberately sit out, or vote for some write in candidate you know can't win, just because you're unhappy with the Republican nominee, you are as disloyal to the United States as any screaming Marxist.
RJ, you are kidding
December 3, 2007 - 18:36 ET by vrwc13RJ, you are kidding right? Had the "sarc" button on?
I have every right, as much as you do to vote for who I damn well please. And just because I won't vote for your RINO Romney, you call me a Marxist?
Get a clue kid. Would you save your sorry ass if someone pointed a gun at you and asked you if you believed in God? And you denied Him? Cassie didn't.
There are a lot more important things in life than you, RJ, "blindly" following your hero.
v
I'm dead serious, vrwc
December 3, 2007 - 18:48 ET by RJ....and you need remedial Reading Comprehension. I didn't call you a Marxist. I said you would do as much damage AS a Marxist.
Of course you can vote for whoever you want, but throwing the vote away means you're not taking the responsibility seriously.
P.S. Who is this "hero" I'm following? Seems that YOU'RE the one with that problem.
Heros? RJ?
December 3, 2007 - 18:58 ET by vrwc13Yours...
....mine.
v
let me know when the big
December 3, 2007 - 19:03 ET by Conservative Voicelet me know when the big guy is running. In the meantime, all I can say is how pharisee of you to claim RJ doesn't follow Christ.
But that doesn't surprise me either, because I remember calling you a Pharisee back in the old anti-mormon threads too.
RJ and CV, thank you for your blessing...
December 4, 2007 - 10:57 ET by vrwc1311"Blessed are you when people insult you, persecute you and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of Me. 12Rejoice and be glad, because great is your reward in heaven, for in the same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you. Matthew 5
v
I love how people are rude,
December 4, 2007 - 13:37 ET by Conservative VoiceI love how people are rude, get called on it, and then quote that scripture as a badge of honor.
LOL, vrwc, as Huckabee said, Jesus is too smart
December 3, 2007 - 19:04 ET by RJto run for office.
Again, try to focus. When have I said that Romney is "my" candidate? No candidate is perfect, but I'm talking about your failing your responsibility as an American citizen, and being no better than an America-hating Marxist.
No but I can say Madame
December 3, 2007 - 18:01 ET by Dan The Man 2No but I can say Madame Premire, and if the GOP places an abortion monger on teh ticket then I will probably say it. BTW Jesus said yes forgive he also said go and sin no more. We should be wise as serpents and a number of other things. Gulliani, Romney are abortion placaters at the very least. Im for Fred the true conservative and pretty much straight talker, only one thing creeps me out...he is a lawyer.
Nuke em til they glow then shoot em in the dark.
"Mike has changed his position on immigration?"
December 3, 2007 - 15:57 ET by RJIf he has, he hasn't made it plain.
His proposal for college tuition for illegal students has amnesty and subsidy ramifications that he hasn't explained....and neither have you.
First , I can't answer for
December 3, 2007 - 16:03 ET by vrwc13First , I can't answer for Huckabee any more than you can for Romney.
Second, RJ you seem to be stuck on a "single issue" issue. How do you line-up with Huckabee's other positions? I would bet you would agree on most everything else.
And he (Huckabee) has never wobbled on abortion.
v
name the issue
December 3, 2007 - 16:10 ET by Conservative Voicename the issue
No vrwc, I'm not "stuck" on immigration
December 3, 2007 - 16:16 ET by RJYOU are the one who posted a link labeled "Huckabee on immigration", and now won't/can't answer my responses. If you don't want to discuss issues, don't bring them up.
I do consider amnesty to be a critical issue, and if Huckabee ducks or can't answer my questions (like you), he won't be my first choice...probably not second, either.
I feel the same about Ron Paul. Because he wants to immediately pull the troops from Iraq, I'm not interested in even discussing his other ideas.
Funny, though, that you call me "stuck" when you're stuck on abortion. Even though you haven't answered my questions, I'll answer yours. I see choosing conservative judges more important than holding down an immovable position on abortion. That's because, like Fred, I think it's a state's issue.
It's the President who
December 3, 2007 - 15:34 ET by vrwc13It's the President who appoints Supreme Court Justices. Exactly where this whole thin