Krugman Shows Why Liberals Think Economy Is Lousy

Photo of Noel Sheppard.

For years one of the great unanswered questions along Main and Wall streets has been why, in the midst of 24 consecutive quarters of uninterrupted growth, polls have regularly found Americans sour about the economy.

On Tuesday, a battle between the New York Times liberal economics columnist Paul Krugman and WOR radio's Steve Malzberg offered a clue.

In fact, after 16 minutes of sparring on subjects from healthcare to the Iraq war, a truly inconvenient truth became evident concerning the left's continued bearishness since the economy emerged from recession in the fourth quarter of 2001: too many folks listen to people like Krugman.

As a perfect illustration of just how separated this man, and anybody who reads him, are from reality, when Malzberg asked Krugman where he'd seek medical treatment if he was really ill, the Times columnist said (16 minute long audio link available here): "France."

I kid you not.

Of course, this shouldn't surprise anyone, for moments earlier, Krugman stated: "If you think that the government, it's an appropriate responsibility of the government to guarantee healthcare to every American then you're a liberal."

Need I say more?

With this in mind, I highly recommend listening to the entire clip, for you'll understand perfectly why Tom DeLay wants to slap this guy.


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The government does such a

The government does such a bang-up job with everything else why not give them a go at trying the manage healthcare.
I suggest they use the Bureau of Indian Affairs model.
Or FEMA...or the USPO
Better yet, the USMC

Socialized health care

When I was in the Army, I got a taste of social medicine. Let me tell you, it sucked. If I were to get sick, I had to go to sick call. I had to be at the clinic by 6:00am. There, I waited outside until at least 7:30 when I was let in to sign in and see a nurse. The nurse would ask my problem and suggest a remedy. The remedy was any of these three: pain killer (aspirin, advil etc), antibiotics, or decongestant. The closest I ever came to seeing an actual doctor was when I had my wisdom teeth pulled.

It wasn't any better for the civilians either. A buddy of mine's wife had a miscarriage on Friday. They sent her home with a dead baby inside her and told her to come back Monday for a DNC. Standard medical care for colds and stuff require more waiting in line, but at least the wives and kids got to wait inside with all the other sick wives and kids.

Either way, it's not the type of thing I want to have to go through again now that I'm a civilian!

If you hamper the war effort of one side, you automatically help out that of the other. --George Orwell

and if your choice is socialized care or bankrupcy?

so if you have tens of thousands of dollars in medical bills or you kids need critical, expensive care for chronic conditions, do you take universal(not necessarily socialized medicine) or NO care OR BANKRUPCY?? Which of those 3 options do you select??

I choose

Private insurance.

It's part of my compensation.  For which I pay a bit.

I don't care to pay for your care, nor the rest of you whining socialists' medical benefits. 

I EARN my coverage.  I OWN it.  I don't want the Government, and particularly not Hillary, involved in my health care decisions.

We need a better class of troll, here.

David Gregory, do you know which damn network you lie for? ~ Uncle Jimbo, @Blackfive

 

Universal NOT Socialized

"universal(not necessarily socialized medicine)"

 

So please explain the differences between Universal healthcare payed by taxpayers and Socialized healthcare payed by taxpayers.

Grayson... One is easier

Grayson...

One is easier to sell to the masses. 

Get Email updates from Fred http://socialnet.imwithfred.com/email_alert_july_26.html

I'm looking forward to the

I'm looking forward to the response.  Uhhh, where'd he go? :-)

Probably back taking his

Probably back taking his flogging on the global warming thread.

Catastrophic insurance

Catastrophic insurance isn't expensive.  Buy some. 

For the the sane people here, don't EVER get into the socialized, union protecting, wait forever medical system we have up here.   My sister, a Canadian nurse who moved to Calif. (can't stand the cold), says the primary difference she sees is in the states, the patient is the customer.  In Canada, the patient was consider a nuisance.  Amazing attitude changes when the patient represents revenue and not a cost centre.  Did you know in the States, it is illegal for any emergency ward to turn you away, whether you have insurance or not?  Billary just wants to get the unions dependent on federal funds and hence get their votes.  If you want to start regressing to mediocrity, get a federally funded, centrally controlled medical system like Canada's.  The rest of the world is moving away from a centrally controlled system.  Sadly, we'll hang on to crap until we get used to the smell. 

*Argue for your limitations and sure enough you will achieve them.

"so if you have tens of

"so if you have tens of thousands of
dollars in medical bills or you kids need critical, expensive care for
chronic conditions, do you take universal(not necessarily socialized
medicine) or NO care OR BANKRUPCY?? Which of those 3 options do you
select??"

I select option 4: I pay for it myself, even if it means borrowing the money to do so, or option 5, where I seek help from charities designed to help those in need where people have WILLINGLY contributed their hard earned money.

Seriously, why is it that borrowing for any and everything under the sun, from spinner rims, to high-powered stereo systems, to expensive cars and homes is okay, but paying for one's own healthcare can only lead to bankruptcy and requires the stealing of other's hard earned money to pay for your problems?

Same thing happen with my

Same thing happen with my mom.I was a Navy brat.They sent her home and told her to put the baby in a bag and bring it in.That was in the 60s though.

You'll understand "why Tom

You'll understand "why Tom Delay wants to slap this guy."

He and everyone else. We could have situation like in the movie "Airplane!" where everyone is lining up to smack the hysterical woman.

IMO, Paul Krugman has gone beyond liberalism,  into irrationality.

One does...

...Have to wonder what sort of insulated existence he lives in order to say these things.

Astounding.

 

Who's Out of Touch?

Or maybe you're the one who has an insulated existence. Every advanced industrialized country in the world (more than 30 total) has a national health care plan except the United States. These are countries with a variety of political systems and a variety of plans. They are united only in the common-sense realization that when it comes to health care, it makes sense to tackle it on a national level and assure that everyone gets the help they need. It is just bizarrre that in an advanced country ordinary citizens still have to worry about potential financial disaster if a family member comes down with an illness when (1) the breadwinner is between jobs, and hence between health plans; (2) works a job where no plan is available and there isn't enough salary left over after food and rent to buy one out-of-pocket.

Krugman's comnents are perfectly rational. And by the way---do you see the citizenry in any of those 30-plus industrialized countries clamoring to back out of their national plans and adopt the kind of bizarre setup we have in the United States?

If you prefer a

If you prefer a nanny-state, move to one of them and spare us.

Leon says "By the way, I'm not afraid of fat people, I'm repulsed"

Truth Monger Says - "Both are religions [Christianity & Islam], yes - with the same percentage of terrorists."

"...in the common-sense

"...in the common-sense realization that when it comes to health care, it makes sense to tackle it on a national level..."

I believe someone whose screen name is Agrarian-Decentralist and makes that statement above should consider changing at least the latter half of his name to be more truthful.

Stop deluding yourself that you are Thomas Jefferson if you are advocating a larger Federal Government.

 

You and Krugman are BOTH out of touch.

you cannot name one so-called "advanced industrialized county" that has socialized medicine for thier citizens, and not screwed it royally. Not one. There are massive problems with each.

If the "breadwinner is between jobs, and hence between health plans" there is *always* COBRA... in place for over TWENTY YEARS. It assures continuation of coverage.

If a person works for a company, and said company does not offer benefits, FIND A NEW D@MN JOB! That's the primary reason companies began offering benefits, was to attract employees! Good grief, man, there is such a thing as personal responsibility.

Finally, yes... there are *many* people that are citizens of countries with socialized medicine that would LOVE to have health care like we have in the U.S.

OPEN YOUR EYES!

Every advanced

Every advanced industrialized country in the world (more than 30 total)
has a national health care plan except the United States.

And where do their citizens go when they want the best health care in the world? To the one that doesn't...the US.

Poeple in England over a certain age are denied dialysis. Poeple in Canada wait 4-6 months for an MRI. There are more MRI machines in a couple of cities in the US than in the entire country of Canada.

I once required 3 CAT scans in a 10-day period, and it wasn't until the third one that my aneurysm was able to be seen. Do you think in Canada I would have been allowed 3 CAT scans in 10 days.? I would have been dead before they got to the first one. So don't tell me centralized government-run care is better...I wouldn't be alive right now if I lived in Canada.

And please don't say that's just anecdotal. The clinics and hospitals in Buffalo, Erie and around Detroit are full of "anedotal" stories of people coming across the border for critical care.

But the same liberals who sanction draconian measures and spending on other issues, with the rationale "If it saves one life it's worth it" don't seem to mind all the people who die because of a lousy health care system that too often leaves treatment until it's too late. They don't care, because it's "free."

Oh, and you are now allowed to sue your Insurance company or your HMO.  Do you think you will be allowed to sue when it's Hillarycare????? 

 

 

I wanted to be a cool kid

I wanted to be a cool kid once.  All the cool kids stayed in the small town we grew up in.  They drank more and made fun of use that left.  I went off to college, got a degree and make a damn fine living.  In addition, I have traveled the world and attempted to make it just a little bit better. 

 So I guess to be a cool kid I should have turned down my scholarships and done what everyone else did. 

http://thelazytriathlete.blogspot.com/

If you want to see a great

If you want to see a great example of Paul Krugman's "flexibility" on problems and solutions, (depending on where he wants the money spent) check out this smackdown by Ruth Marcus:

Marcus cites these "money quotes" form Krugman:

"[B]ecause the baby boomers' contributions were used to provide
generous benefits to earlier generations, there isn't enough money in
the system to pay the benefits promised to the boomers themselves." (June 21, 2000)

But now that the Boomers have actually started to retire, the problem has apparently evaporated, since Krugman insisted, just a couple of weeks ago, that

"the whole Beltway obsession with the fiscal burden of an aging population is misguided."

Could that be because he now would prefer to see money spent on nationalized health care?

Delay should be in a black and white suit

for his criminal behavior while in office. Yeah, the economy has worked great....for billionaires! How's the dollar under Bush? Great returns for the stock market over his 7 years...30%(being generous), most of which accrued to the insiders and cronies of Bush.. Subtract out the amount ripped off by these slimebags and you have maybe, 15 to 20%. Over 7 years, CD's would have returned at least 35% with no risk. Yeah, the great Bush econmy ...if you're a plutocrat or an ignorant confederate who doesn't know when his pension and healthcare have been stolen from him. Just wait. When countries see how worthless the dollar is and start to head for the exits, watch out. Our country is bankrupt but plays a variation of the emperors new clothes where everyone is bankrupt but pretends otherwise(except the criminal war profiteers, CEO's and other assorted plutocrats). After the country gets sold off to pay off our debt, the same plutocrat criminals will buy up public resources for pennies on the dollar. Wait until all the bubbas here have to pony up for privatized water and energy, then the sh*#t will really hit the fan. All the bubbas will blame Liberals for their stupidity and ignorance. Americns are fat, dumb, happy and stupid!

More talking points

How much are you getting paid to post this crap?

We need a better class of troll, here. 

David Gregory, do you know which damn network you lie for? ~ Uncle Jimbo, @Blackfive

 

"...if you're a plutocrat

"...if you're a plutocrat or an ignorant confederate.."

You truly are a piece of work...

Last time I checked, you do not have to be rich to invest in the Stock market.  I am sick and tired of hearing this baloney.  GWB tried to make it where people would have the option of investing a portion of their SS taxes into the stock market.

Don't think I am mindless defender of GWB either.  If I had the chance I would have quite a few words for him about his support of the Mexican Reconquista and his support of LOST.

"...After the country gets

"...After the country gets sold off to pay off our debt, the same plutocrat criminals will buy up public resources for pennies on the dollar. Wait until all the bubbas here have to pony up for privatized water and energy, then the sh*#t will really hit the fan..."

Have you checked out the price of fuel in Socialist Europe?

Months ago it was near $6.00 a gallon for "petrol" in England.

You and I agree the country is in debt, but your answer is more government programs?

"but your answer is more

"but your answer is more government programs?"

A liberal can't have it any other way.  Since this poster is so intent on history lessons, perhaps he can educate us on the economy during the Carter administration?  

I'm sure we'll hear "In 1977, I was getting 18% on my CD's!!!  It was great!"

Leon says "By the way, I'm not afraid of fat people, I'm repulsed"

Truth Monger Says - "Both are religions [Christianity & Islam], yes - with the same percentage of terrorists."

Jimbo

Do me a favor, & pass the duct tape (h/t motherbelt).

Jimmy Cahtuh....malaise.

Nuff said.

 

David Gregory, do you know which damn network you lie for? ~ Uncle Jimbo, @Blackfive

 

Professor T

Answer 2 quick, easy questions for me:

1) Is Bush flat-out pure evil, in your eyes? Meaning, do you perceive him to be subhuman and a deliberately evil being? Yes or no?

2) If your answer to the above is "no", then is there even one good/positive thing that you've found he's done while in office? (i.e., passed some legislature that you actually agreed with?)

 

"MY end justifies THAT mean." - Shakespeare (not really)

Please calm down professor truth...

I've watched you work yourself into a frenzy over things you can't control. Venting is healthy. Vein popping anger is not. I would suggest, rather than grapple with the many problems you perceive in the world, focus on only one or two at a time. Even if you only put a slight dent in them, you've done good. If you fail to dent, say "so what" and move on to the next hurdle in life. No one will think the less of you, in fact, just the opposite would be true, and the health and well being of you and your family will benefit greatly. I mean this in only the kindest way. God bless and have a peaceful Thanksgiving Day.

NYT

The Times exists in accordance with libs to deny the abundance of opportunity and success in America. The focus is not relevant. The purpose is to foster gloom as opposed to excitement, society never regresses.

Krugman does not believe our economy is 'lousy' nor does he desire to live under socialized health care. How would they benefit him?

The libs want control and are more than willing to sacrifice their country in order to attain it. They need news media to carry their message, but it's still too early. What's left if an attack on the economy fails? Apparently Countrywide has good liquidity and housing was up, the market will correct itself.

The idea of hoping for the worst and henceforth promoting it is vile. Those who achieve learn to deal with problems and do not concern themselves with other people's negatives.

JDW

Sen Clinton: Distinguished Founder of Media Matters

 

I wish he would go to France

I wish he would go to France if he was sick...a few years ago during a very hot summer, hundreds of people died in French hospitals because they did not have air conditioning...he would suffer through this for the food I would bet

Health care

I wish he would go to France if he was sick

Very good insight.

JDW

Sen Clinton: Distinguished Founder of Media Matters

 

JDW

So true! So true!!

The NYT is constantly negative, overall, on a daily basis. It's a depressing paper, and yet this country is far from living in depressing times.

 

"MY end justifies THAT mean." - Shakespeare (not really)

Well, scumbag, why don't you

Well, scumbag, why don't you just move to France then?  No one wants you here.  Krugman is an intellectually dishonest embarrassment.  Where does DeLay's line start, anyway?

I wish it could start

I wish it could start without DeLay (pun intended). ;-)

Yes, FOTR, justice DeLayd is

Yes, FOTR, justice DeLayd is justice denied.

I truly believe that

I truly believe that Constitutionaly, The State and local governments have greater potential regulatory power over the people than does the Federal Government.  Originally, the Feds role over individual citizens was to be minimal. 

I believe it was Ronald Reagan that called the States "fifty experiments in democracy" and that if you did not like the way one was being run you could move to another.

In theory, it would be a lot easier for me to be persuaded to support a minimal health care plan truly run AND funded entirley by a State than a collosal Federal one.  Unfortunately, the Fed government pulls so much tax dollars from individuals there is little wiggle room left for state Legislatures. Of course, any State health plan that I supported would need a required co-payment plan to keep people from flooding the system. Also, the plan would need an expiration date that required another legislative act to keep it going.  Also, no illegal aliens allowed in the plan.  Border states are already overwhelmed treating Mexico's masses of people.

In reality, even a State plan would likely take on a life of its own and keep growing, therefore I would be very hard pressed to support even a State plan.

 

Unless you are from NJ. 

Unless you are from NJ.  That government is so corrupt and innept that it makes the Feds look like choir boys. 

Leon says "By the way, I'm not afraid of fat people, I'm repulsed"

Truth Monger Says - "Both are religions [Christianity & Islam], yes - with the same percentage of terrorists."

....asked Krugman where

....asked Krugman where he'd seek medical treatment if he was really ill, the Times columnist said: "France."

I'll economize my answer: Baloney.

 

 

Ellen

I am surprised he did not say Canada (where I live) which after all makes France's health care system seem positively capitalist - at least there are private doctors in France.

The odd thing about people like Krugman is that they are able to intellectually distance themselves from reality. For example, if Krugman was struck down by cancer he would obviously go for treatment in the US simply because it has the best cancer treatment in the world.  It is as if he is able to avoid being truly honest with himself on this and many topics that he pronounces on.

A little off topic, but interesting nevertheless. Here in Canada a prominent politician was struck down with breast cancer and quitely slipped off to California for treatment. Fine, except that she is a great a great proponent of Canadian health care. Unfortunately the Krugman Reality Avodiance (KRA) syndrome is not unique to Paul Krugman.

edhenry Bravo

edhenry

Bravo algoa.

And to professortruth, your economic analysis is way off (and insulting with the "Bush cronies" hyperbole).

Too tired to pick apart your comments one by one, and too easy. GDP growth since 9/11, home ownership (especially by minorities), job growth, government revenue growth with tax CUTS, an on and on. 

But if you post here, do it with facts. This is a cut way above other blogs in smarts.

The drive bys point of

The drive bys point of departure for any discussion concerning health care is should one opt for government/universal health care or not.  Starting out at this junction already gives liberals an edge.

The facts are that for a good percentage of the population, governmnet/universal coverage is already a reality and we, the ones that pay for private insurance end up paying three times for that coverage.  We, those paying for private insurance, pay for the man or women who refuse to pay, we pay for the plethora of local, state, and federal health programs for those on the dole and then, finally, we pay for our own private insurance. 

The discussion should start with how can we eliminate the present plethora of ill conceived, bloated, inefficient government health care programs and get back to privately funded health care. 

The liberals plan, in case it hasn't dawned on you, is incrementally, move toward government/universal health care. 

And, they are succeeding splendidly.

Don't get me started

I live in Canada. In 2002 I waited, are you sitting down, not 4-6months but 8 months for an MRI. That's just the tip of the iceberg. Over 1 million Canadians (in a country of 33 million) do not even have a GP because of a shortage of doctors. I could go on and on. Please don't get me started.

no way somthing run by the

no way somthing run by the gov't that's not lined with gold????

 

I can't believe that...your either a liar or a lunitic

 

 

Maybe it's just me but it

Maybe it's just me but it seems like all the left side blogs started talking down the economy much more than the subprime mortgage issue would warrant.

Since then I am seeing a whole bunch of carbon copy talking points over there with the same gloom and doom viewpoint.

I swear they are trying to talk the economy down just so they can do a timely roll out rerun of it's the economy stupid.

One of the classic wrongs was today someone assured their readers we are in a recession.

Excuse me but I thought in economics a recession was defined by three consecutive quaters of negative growth.

Did I miss something here?

"Americns are fat, dumb,

"Americns are fat, dumb, happy and stupid!"

Especially liberals like yourself. Meanwhile, my portfolio has doubled
the past 3 years, my retirement fund is still intact, and I still have
access to healthcare. I feel so stoopid.

"Every advanced

"Every advanced industrialized country in the world (more than 30 total)
has a national health care plan except the United States."

That solves it then. When my children get older, I'll just tell them "if everyone else is doing it, you do it too". I foresee no problems with that piece of advice at all, lol.

}}---> Great Idea ckc

We can just send our uninsured Americans to some of them other countries and see how long they'll put up with it.

I suggest a "Million Old Farts March on Canada"

I hope he does go to France

I hope he does go to France (or any other country with socialized medicine) for his healthcare.  Because then he will be:

1.  Out of my country, and

2. Unlikely to survive.