Bill Donohue Asks Christopher Hitchens ‘You Want to Take it Outside’

Photo of Noel Sheppard.
By Noel Sheppard | September 2, 2007 - 13:53 ET

A religious debate about Mother Teresa took place on Tuesday's "Hardball" between author Christopher Hitchens and Bill Donohue, the President of the Catholic League.

Towards the end of the discussion, Donohue said to Hitchens, "Listen, you want to take it outside, Christopher, that's fine."

For some reason, MSNBC decided not to include this in the transcript posted at its website (video available here, relevant segment at 4:54):

DONOHUE: At the end of the day, this is a woman who received 124 awards, who set up hospitals for AIDS patients.

(CROSS TALK)

DONOHUE: Listen-

CHRIS MATTHEWS, HOST: Bill needs some time here. Bill, take 30 seconds.

(CROSS TALK)

MATTHEWS: Christopher, we have to give him 30 seconds, please.

Notice the "Cross Talk" references? Well, that "cross talk" was completely audible and easily transcribed:

DONOHUE: At the end of the day, this is a woman who received 124 awards, who set up hospitals for AIDS patients.

HITCHENS: Who said they were worthless to her...

DONOHUE: No, no. As an Englishman, again, you have to be quiet when an Irishman speaks.

HITCHENS: In the book she says the awards were worthless to her...

DONOHUE: I'm an Irishman. Listen, you want to take it outside, Christopher, that's fine.

Why did MSNBC choose to scrub this exchange from its transcript?

—Noel Sheppard is the Associate Editor of NewsBusters.

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Good question. Everyone

Good question. Everyone here would presume that MSNBC left Donohue's bizarre comments in. "You have to be quiet when an Irishman speaks"? What is that? "You want to take it outside"? Really?

Hitchens is a person who

Hitchens is a person who spent decades supporting, defending, indeed embracing, an ideology that committed horrors that were remarkably similar - in my opinion much worse - to the horrors done under the name of religion.

You'd think someone with that past (Trotsky vs. Stalin, no real difference) would show a little humility when pointing to the excesses of other ideologies.

Those on the Left, for understandable reasons (since they were with him) don't wish to point this out. Those of us on the Right make the error that, because he supports us in the conflict against radical Islam, that we shouldn't point these things out.

Okay, we'll let him sit down and have dinner with us. But he's not eating with the adults. He's in the kitchen with the kids. 

SMG 

 

 

 

 

 

SMG -

My gawd! Don't put him with the kids!!!

TV tray, in front of Green Acres  reruns ... on mute.

}}---> Matthews censorship

Matthews didn't want to promote the stereotype that Irishmen are too quick to go fisticuffs.

~LYDSEXICS UNTIE!~

You mean they're not?There

You mean they're not?There goes my excuse.Anyhow some people will have doubts about God.Seeing what she had I sure had a affect on her.To see all that misery and still have faith would be tough.

Well it's just another spin

If you watch the first quote down at the bottom left it says " suggested as a confession by so and such" - so what they don't want people to know is that it is a practice in humility and doesn't mean it encompasses her entire life, or her standard belief. Same thing with the few quotes on "her sorrow".

 I've never met a despressed priest or nun. They are usually very outgoing and knowledgeable, so as usual the spin is in.

 The politics of it is use one statement over years to hang a person, and ignore the thousands of others that are not of that character.

 I thought the last line on the video was particularly good from Bill, ~ you're the only person without doubts Christopher ~ . Not often I see Hitchens without any valid responses, but in this case it appears he hit a brick wall a few times, and was unable to form a comeback, let alone a valid point.

 I'm a huge Hitchens fan, but do admit he lost that debate. No footnotes, the point is valid, but instead of losing gracefully he has to say Bill is not a professor - of course that doesn't matter- verdict " F". 

Agree

"I thought the last line on the video was particularly good from Bill, ~ you're the only person without doubts Christopher ~ ."

That pretty much nails it right there.All the pain and suffering she saw would be hard to keep the faith.Yet she didnt stop her good works.All the good she did I think Hitchens need to just leave it alone.There is only one I know that can walk on water and it isnt any person on earth.Were all human so nobody is perfect.

Bill Donahue

I say to Mr. Donohue while defending Mother Teresa, do it like she would, welcome the persecution and turn the other cheek. This guy does Catholics no good with his beligerency and the lumber yard he carries around on his shoulder.

Why indeed Noel. I for

Why indeed Noel.

I for one can't figure this one out....strange to me for msnbc to do this...they thrive on this type of stuff.

Maybe because Donohue spoke for millions of us...not that that many people watch the network or the show...lol....

Btw...just as an aside...I have had nothing but admiration for Donohue.

... and my money is on the

... and my money is on the Irishman from the northeast.  Christopher had best not go outside with him--he'd get hurt.

Liberalism is a convenient lie.

Hitchens hates religion,

Hitchens hates religion, and it shows. What better way to insult Catholics
than to denigrate one of their most revered icons? On the night she
died, on NPR's "All Things Considered", Hitchens criticized Mother Teresa's enthusiasm for the dignity of
poverty as "Middle Age theology, a destructive comfort to keep people
poor, rather than give them the means or inspiration to rise up"

(quoted from Brent Bozell's report at the time).

And for some reason, he thinks it's relevant that all the awards Mother Teresa received meant nothing to her. So let's see...she won awards, but she said they were worthless to her....meaning what, Mr. Hitchens? That Donohue shouldn't mention that world opinion of her was very high, because she didn't care about it?

Oh, I get it now. That's exactly his point. If she didn't care for the world's opinion of her, Donohue shouldn't be allowed to use it as measure of her stature. He thinks because Mother Teresa didn't want fame, we should give her her way and just forget about her.

Hitchens comes off as a hateful snob, who thinks just because he spouts his venom with a high-class British accent, it's crass to dispute him.

Hitchen's is gonna have

Hitchen's is gonna have lot's of 'splainin' to do when he leaves this world...

JMO....

howdy, bt...I agree with

howdy, bt...I agree with you.

He is a hateful little man. And yet, for some reason, some Americans love to listen to him opine about how ignorant we are. Must be the accent.

Senior Chief says...

That is, if he ever gets inside and be able to explain to God whom he hates so bad; but the way things going with Hitchens is, he'll be doing a lot of splainin to do, why he didn't do more, with his fellow hater himself in the bottomless pit...

Have you seen the

Have you seen the Hitchens/Sharpton debate at NYPL?

It's a wealth of revealing information not only upon Sharpton and Hitchens but the audience and even the moderator.  Clearly everybody except Sharpton expected Hitchens to make short work of the debate but Sharpton made the winner amazingly unclear.

The question to ask

Isn't why they did it. It's why they ever imagined they could get away with doing it in an internet age. Some executive vice president clearly needs to lose his/her job...
JMR

Rally online with fans of Dr. Ron Paul.

Donohue & Why MSNBC Left Out His Comment

You have to understand liberals in being bullies and quite brave when it is hulking Bill Clinton tackling Dick Morris, but let Matthews do more than verbal spit at Michele Malkin who could probably take Matthews......it is a different story.

Liberals like beating on people when they have the numbers. It is why Nazi (national socialists) always do it in mass like Muslims always attack in mass in the Middle East as they are not brave enough to do it alone.

This is key, because Liberals like Olberman know in "civilized" society they can get away with being rude like a number of bloggers pull all the time. The last thing they want is to really meet someone who will take it outside.

Just imagine if people like Donohue sparked a trend where Liberals anchors were getting slugged for mouthing off. Imagine Dick Cheney popping that dope Pat Leahy for spouting off to him.

Liberals have so "civlized" society so they can get away with being uncivilized. Remember the good old days when Irish cops used to use their sticks beating the bajesus out of criminals in New York...crime was low. Remember on the floor of Congress during the Civil War a representative almost beat another to death with his walking stick..........that was polite society and the last thing these loud mouth Liberals want is a trend starting where they get hauled outside and their clocks cleaned.

Now I might buy an extra six pack for the night librarian marm Laura Bush throws down and pounds the stuffing out of Katie Couric, but Liberals would be terrified of it.

That is why they leave it out as they control the game and are treading water doing it.........I would though love to see Donohue bust a few chops. Those Irishmen are long overdue for venting a little steam in all the crap they have been taking.

 

*HIC IACET ARTORIVS REX QVONDAM REXQVE FVTVRVS

liberals

are you saying that they do well in packs?

C

I just took the time to

I just took the time to watch the video. It was worse than I expected.

First of all, Chrissie Matthews starts off with "Mother Teresa, a story
of sainthood, or of scandal?" I guess it's a scandal that she had
doubts...real saints don't have doubts, right? The left will now jump on these
letters as "proof" that...what? That she was human? That her faith
sometimes faltered? Big fat deal. Every person of faith goes through periods
"in the desert" when it all seems to dry up, and God seems so far
away.

Hitchens was despicable. He referred to Donohue's "so-called
faith," among other things. He was gleeful, that he thinks he has now
proven, with Mother Teresa's agreement, that there is no God. Oh, yeah, Chris
you got us on that one.

In typical liberal fashion, Hitchens thinks that if you can't
"feel" something, it isnt' true. He cites Mother Teresa's confession
that she couldn't "feel" Christ in the Eucharist. I am a
Catholic....I don't "feel" Christ's presence in the Eucharist; I
don't get a warm "glow" when I partake of communion. But I know He is
there. How? Because He said so. And he cannot lie. Faith based on proof is not
faith. And faith based on emotions, or what one "feels" is no
lasting. Look at all the people at those evangelical gatherings...waving and
crying and singing....how long do you think that emotion lasts when they leave
there? Real life intervenes. And real faith, is an act of will, not an act of
feeling. So is real love.

As for the feeling she expressed about her tongue moving but no prayer comes
forth, which Hitchens also cited as proof that she stopped believing: Nice try,
Chris, but God knows that too. As St. Paul
tells us, when we are dried up and have no words, and don't know how to pray,
the Holy Spirit prays for us, in unintelligible (to us) groanings, to the
Father. God knows we are human, and we fail, and we are not always strong in
our faith. But the reward is to the one who perseveres.

Mother Teresa was a human who struggled in her faith, but always kept going
forward with what she knew was God's work, and apparently trusted that God
would stay with her, even if she couldn't "feel" Him, until the end.
For Hitchens to say that she was an unbeliever who was exploited to her last
day by the Catholic Church is the most despicable thing I have ever heard him
say.

Shut up, Mr. Hitchens. Just. Shut. Up.

There! I feel better now.

Excellent mother!

Excellent mother!

Anyone that is unfamiliar with the concept you are presenting can reference Dark Night of the Soul by St. John of the Cross for a more thorough study of the subject.

A short explanation of this spiritual emptiness; Rather than being a negative event, the dark night is believed by mystics and others to be a blessing in disguise where the individual extends from a state of contemplative prayer to an inability to pray. It is seen as a severe test of one's faith.

The misinterpretation perpetuated by the media has been bothering me ever since it was first revealed that Mother Teresa did not "feel" the presence of Christ.  The first thought that came to my mind was; She truly is a Saint.

Matthews take is yet another example of so-called journalists reporting on something they know nothing about or know but refuse to acknowledge for whatever self-serving reason.

I could definitely relate to Donohue's "take it outside" comment. But then, unfortunately, I am far from being a Saint.

Mother Theresa's dryness in prayer

I thought the same thing when I heard the secular media jumping on Mother Theresa's struggles in her spiritual life as some sort of admission that she doubted God. This is another prime example of the MSM reporting on something they know nothing about. When I heard it I was convinced that Mother is certainly on the road to becoming a recognized Saint. Most, and probably all the saints in the Church had to overcome spiritual demons and doubts to reach the sanctity of their sainthood. I'm not an expert but from what I've read on the lives of the saints, their intense love of the Lord is put to the ultimate test and it is how they persevere with this test that proves their worth. They realize that alone they can not overcome their doubts but only with the aid of God's grace through His Holy Spirit do they attain sanctity. Another reason for this "dryness" is to assist the person in associating with Christ's suffering on the cross. But one would have a better chance of explaining these type things to a pet than ever connecting with the MSM on faith issues. It is no surprise that Mother Theresa had to deal with spiritual internal suffering while on earth. It would have been more surprising if she had not. However, Mother fought the good fight and trudged on relying only on God to get her through it. A common Christian prayer throughout the ages explains it all: "Jesus, I believe. Help my unbelief!"   These are matters that many in the MSM have no interest in understanding. If you have faith no proof is necessary. Without faith no proof is sufficient.     

 

Philly.... Amen to all of

Philly....

Amen to all of that priceless post.

Amen.

Fr. Henri J.M. Nouwen

who wrote copiously on the subject of prayer, once wrote "Are the darkness and dryness of my prayers signs of God's absence, or are they signs of a presence deeper and wider than my senses can contain? Is the death of my prayer the end of my intimacy with God or the beginning of a new communion, beyond words, emotions and bodily sensations?" [Sabbatical Journey, 1998, Crossroads Publishing].

I think Mother Teresa went down this same path. In another of his books [Here and Now] he tells of a meeting with her in which he began to complain about the complications of his life. Her response to him was "Well, when you spend one hour a day adoring your Lord and never do anything which you know is wrong...you will be fine." He wrote that she was like a flash of lightning in his darkness and he suddenly knew the truth about himself.

How could she have had serious doubts about her own faith and still reach into the heart of this Godly man? I don't think she doubted her faith any more than anyone else - she probably reached the same deep faith that is beyond expression that he did.

BTW, if anyone is interested in Fr. Nouwen's writings about prayer, may I recommend a compilation of short excerpts published after his death called "The Only Necessary Thing" [Crossroads, 1999]. It's the one book I always have within reach.

 

"In prayer it is better to have a heart without words than words without a heart" John Bunyan

One more reply to the

One more reply to the question of Mother Teresa's trials of faith. Perhaps she lived by this prayerful advice I found years ago, and cut out from a a church bulletin. It was attributed to Rosalind Russell:

Trust Him when darkest thoughts assail thee,

Trust Him when thy faith is small,

Trust Him, when to simply trust Him

Is the hardest thing of all.

 

Faith

Father why have you forsaken me... Question the faith! is the strength.

faith

David had many moments of doubt.  Many theologians contend that Jesus was teaching in His use of Eloi Eloi (as a reference to Ps 22 which describes His crucifixation) rather than doubting.

Supreme Court,  National Security,  Borders,  Fiscal Restraint, my litmus test for President.  

I'll hit you over the head with my guinness bottle!

A Catholic and an Irishman! The cliches weren't far behind.

Mother Teresa did intmate what Hitchens said. As recent history has shown, Catholics are great at defending rascals.

I'm not much of a fan of institutionalized religion. They tend to be more about proping up heros and sanctuaries than in building on faith.

   

Im going to ignore the rest

Im going to ignore the rest of your post, as I realize there would be no point arguing if that is your opinion, but please elaborate on this:


Mother Teresa did intmate what Hitchens said.

as it is relevant to the point of this thread.

Mother

'the unexamined life is not worth living' was that Plato or Aristotle?

much the same could be said for faith; adding to it James

Supreme Court,  National Security,  Borders,  Fiscal Restraint, my litmus test for President.  

Cliches on TV

While channel surfing last night, I stumbled into a 3 minute musical montage on The Family Guy called "My drunken Irish Dad". Must be seen to be believed. Premise is that Peter, show's main character, is the result of a drunken saloon encounter. He then goes back to Ireland to find the alcoholic sot who seduced and abandoned his Mom. The concept of  the "Comedy Channel" is getting increasingly ambiguous.

The Family Guy is on Fox,

The Family Guy is on Fox, isn't it? Owners and operators of Fox News? Champions of all that is good and decent?

Proving, bal, that Fox isn't

the single-minded trumpet of hard-right ideology that you lefties claim?

Just pointing out it's not

Just pointing out it's not on that evil, deplorable Comedy Central, and it that Fox has interesting differences in their news and entertainment divisions.

Quack, quack, bal

Nice duck.   Gee, you could claim you were "comparing" Fox to just about anything... 

Not ducking anything.

Not ducking anything. Original poster was wrong about Comedy Central reference.

Yes, bal, but YOUR reference

was about Fox being the "Champion of all that is good...etc."    I responded to that, and, as you often do, you ducked.  Quack, quack, bal. ;^>

Bal

B,

So, maybe that means Rupert Murdoch isn't the right-wing devil the liberals and the media make him out to be. Maybe he's just a good businessman who knows how to market news and entertainment while consistently making a profit unlike most in the industry. ns

Perhaps. :-) It's just an

Perhaps. :-) It's just an interesting contrast.

Would Bozell say differently? Given his staunch pro-Little House on the Prairie stance for television?

Bal

B,

I'm not sure what your question means. Regardless, one man's "interesting contrast" is another man's balance.

After all, maybe conservatives would be less concerned with ABC, CBS, and NBC's liberal bias in their news reporting if their entertainment divisions were more family-oriented and less secular. :-) ns

Bal, he's even Hillary's lunch-buddy!

He's totally a businessman, politics seems secondary at best for him, or if anything he's for the bi-partisan big-government party. And were it not for Rupert we would not have had The Simpsons, which in addition to providing hours of comedy for normal people, provided numerous opportunities for outrage among the William Bennetts & other scolds of this world. The Simpsons makes even the worst stuff lefties believe about Fox News forgiveable, IMO, it's so-good. 

This moral outrage at a mere cartoon came despite the fact that just about each Simpsons episode consisted of a little morality-play (ex. even though he's sorely tempted by the country-singer, Homer never cheats on Marge!) and if anything exemplifies quite a few conservative values even as the cartoon pokes fun at Flanders, since the cartoon is in reality just as willing to mock vegans & Unitarians. And occasionally, it mocks libertarians. :)
JMR

Rally online with fans of Dr. Ron Paul.

That's the way, balboa. 

That's the way, balboa.  Never let the facts get in the way of a perfectly good left-wing anti-Fox conspiracy theory.

It's common knowledge that Seth McFarlane is your typical Hollywood limousine liberal.  His "Family Guy" cartoon has always tilted left with Fox's blessing...it's shifted much further left since the show's return in 2005.  Most recently, McFarlane has used his two shows to spout almost constant liberal propaganda on Fox's time.  Even "The Simpsons" mix in a fair bit of lefty social commentary in their Fox episodes...only difference is that "The Simpsons" is funny.

If you can't ride the wave ... don't surf.

The creator of Family Guy is of Irish lineage; hence the name Seth McFarlane. The show pokes at all of the idiotic "PC" notions set forth by dunces who lay waste to the 1st Amendment; which includes the MSM, anthropogenic global warming alarmists, MPAA and commies. 

Neither Teresa nor Dianna

Neither Teresa nor Dianna are "saints" IMO.  However,if Donohue thinks that Hitchens was downgrading her he has every right to want to "knock hellout of him".  Bubba, if you can't back up what you say, you ought not be saying it.  

The former is...

don't know about the latter. Mother Teresa lived her orders Post Communion prayer,"Flood our souls with your Spirit and Life". She was flooded with Light and it spilled out on those around her,saw it myself,experienced it first hand. Awesome.

Like it or not Hitchens is

Like it or not Hitchens is one of the strongest voices on TV supporting the War on Terror and in Iraq...he has the guts to say things to the Chrissy Matthews of the MSM that most on the Right for some reason are afraid to..so I for one am willing to give him a break on some of his more extreme postitions on religion.

*********** John Edwards '08 ***********
"More woman than Hillary,more black than Obama!"

mlong

Hitchens actualy catches the lib and the msm in their Iraq lies, and tells them to their faces "That's not true at all", and then procedes to destroy them with the facts.

 If republicans weren't such - whatever they are - they could learn how to actually turn the public entirely around by listening to Hitchens on the Iraq war. Hitchens absolutely cremates the purported "liberals" slamming them to the mat for not supporting women and children and freedom in the middle east.

 I sure wish republicans would start STUDYING how to respond. The only person I can think of that even comes close is Dick Cheney, who also has a command of the facts, and will state frankly to reporters , " That just isn't true" - before he delivers the truth in the very next sentences.

 Too bad he has to be in the bunker so often, but republicans should notice how much the libs hate Dick Cheney too, whom they USED to call Bush's brains, before they all decided it was Rove. It's not Halliburton that causes the libs to hate Dick Cheney, it's his immense command of the facts.

Lynn Cheney is no lightweight either, she slapped the dorko dimwit himself in his cnn "situation room" - the fantasy control bunker the cnnlib media has as the name of their "news program".

 No, blitzer(small b) you moronic lib idiot, your news set is not the situation room of the White House, no matter how long you pretend it is.

In a few years some crackpot lib "news program" will call itself " The Oval Office".