Pajamas Media is reporting that some fireworks broke out Friday morning during the YearlyKos convention in Chicago (h/t NBer Saw the Light).
During a breakout session ironically titled "The Military and Progressives: Are They Really That Different," an as of yet unidentified soldier in uniform stood up to address the panel -- which included Wesley Clark -- to discuss how the surge is going.
According to Pajamas Media (video available here):
He was unceremoniously escorted out by panelist John Soltz.
The soldier’s words were either suppressed or inaudible on the convention’s own video. They can be heard hear on this exclusive PJM Video by Andrew Marcus, who also interviews the soldier and tries to interview Soltz.
Soltz claimed that the soldier was trying to talk politics with a uniform on, which he said is against the law.
However, from the video, it appeared that all the soldier was doing was trying to inform the panel and the attendees what is happening in Iraq after the surge.
Hot Air's Allahpundit has more:
Even more interesting than the rules governing what he did yesterday will be the rules governing what he can do this week. The media’s going to want to talk to him as much as his commanders are going to want to stop that from happening lest it draw more attention to his probable breach of military regs yesterday.
[...]
Soltz is the head of the anti-war veterans’ group VoteVets; he’s on cable news every other day precisely because he’s a vet whose view of the war coincides with the media’s. He’s not wearing his uniform in those appearances but he might as well be. The only significant ethical difference between him and the mystery soldier is that an observer might think the mystery soldier is speaking as an official military spokesman.
Allah also pointed out that Soltz features a picture of himself in uniform at his website.
Can you say "Do As I Say, Not As I Do?"
For those interested, Soltz got into quite a heated exchange with KSFO's Melanie Morgan on "The News Hour" earlier this year (videos in two parts available here and here).
—Noel Sheppard is the Associate Editor of NewsBusters. Follow him at Facebook and Twitter.
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Soldier Prevented From Speaking at YearlyKos Convention
August 4, 2007 - 15:02 ET by tazzI wonder how the kos would have treated it if Scott Beauchamp made an appearence? Hmnnn....
This might partially answer
August 4, 2007 - 16:27 ET by Del DolemonteThis might partially answer your question-it's today's hallucinogenic blog by one Ezra Klein, who originally blogged this story yesterday. It's from the looney left American Prospect blog.
Be sure to read the comments-many call out Klein on his intellectual dishonesty. h/t to lgf
http://www.prospect.org/csnc/blogs/tapped_archive?month=08&year=2007&base_name=post_4484#comments
Excellent, Del. Uncle
August 4, 2007 - 16:35 ET by BlondeExcellent, Del.
Uncle Jimbo from Blackfive left a nice little note on Klein's blog. He was cordial, as ever.
UJ called Beauchamp's blather correctly a couple of days ago.
Anybody wants to place bets
August 4, 2007 - 18:54 ET by ZoneDaiatlasAnybody wants to place bets that Keith "I also get low ratings in bed" Olbermann will make this Soldier the "Worst Person in the World"...?
Every day, the democrats
August 4, 2007 - 15:04 ET by LighthouseJEvery day, the democrats erode the facade that masks their true leftist desires to raise taxes "for the common good", secrete socialism into society and generally work against our capitalist/western ideals that established this great country.
Don't you know that the
August 4, 2007 - 15:08 ET by KJ_sezDon't you know that the right to exercise free speech doesn't include non-approved persons? You have to have clearance from the Politburo first! This man was not in harmony with The Agenda or The Talking points and needs to be re-educated with all due rapidity!
Liberal "freedom" at its finest.
Do you REALLY want Hitlary and Kaiser Bill in the White House?
The light soldiers of the left
August 4, 2007 - 15:15 ET by Lame CherryYesterday Huffington had on an LT laying down his credentials as a Marine rifle company commander from Vietnam in the same sort of rubbish as John Kerry saluting and reporting for duty at the DNC. The left only trots out military to bash the military when it can control the situation, but when it is the KOS mob then it erupts into dictatorship control of thought.
These creatures loathe the military like Bill Clinton does, but they just can't leave it alone as the John Wayne prop that they too can be manly and defend America.
Stoltz is one of the Huffington comrades clique who unlike this site which has open blogs with no edits.......Stoltz refuses like all Huffington to allow anything up in print which challenges them.
They aren't interested in Truth. Like that LT yesterday he was only interested in a uniform to convey a defeat America strategy.
Wes Clark is always one of my favorite liberals, because I know the British Generals who told him to bugger off when Wes decided to order RUSSIAN FORCES TO BE BOMBED in Kosovo. Yes good olde Wacko Wes was going to bomb nuclear armed Russia sitting with divisions of soldiers with only a hand empty of troops to respond.
This is who the liberals hold up as experts on the military. They hold up Richard Clark a terrorist expert who covered up TWA 800 being shot down so Clinton would not have to go to war against Iran.
Gee if Clinton would have done his job there would not have been a 9 11 and no Iraq and no nuclear Iran.
I am glad Stoltz got exposed as the censorhound he is. We need more KOS events to expose what the left is all about.
*HIC IACET ARTORIVS REX QVONDAM REXQVE FVTVRVS
Someone should send an
August 4, 2007 - 15:35 ET by Del DolemonteSomeone should send an e-mail to Bill O'Reilly, who has been torching Kos all week, and tell him that a fellow Fox News employee, Wes "Bombs Away" Clark, was at the Kos Konvention. Bill should have him on and question him about it...
Better check your "facts"
August 5, 2007 - 10:18 ET by hf jaiOr screw your tin-foil hat on a little tighter.
Wes Clark never ordered anyone to bomb the Russians. He ordered British Lt General Mike Jackson to move his vehicles onto the airfield at Pristina so that Russian reinforcements couldn't land. It was the Russians who only had a small continent, about 200 soldiers, holed up in a couple hangers at one end of the airfield. There was absolutely no possibility of significant confrontation, and within a few days, Jackson's ground forces were providing food and water to the Russian troops. Clark suceeded in blocking Russian reinforcements by getting Bulgaria and Hungary to deny use of their airspace -- actually far riskier, but necessary to keep Russian from establishing their own zone in Kosovo, separate from NATO control.
And no, Clark had nothing to do with Waco, as was determined in Republican Senator Danforth's investigation.
Clark is greatly respected by senior military officers of all political persuations. What Hugh Shelton said about him was purely because Shelton was working for John Edwards at the time. Al Haig, Colin Powell, Bob Scales, and many other Republicans who know Clark well have testified to his integrity and military competence.
Ultimately, the results of his war speak for themselves: Serbia capitulated, Milosevic was forced to resign and later imprisoned, the ethnic cleansing of Kosovars was halted, the 19-nation NATO coalition held together, the neighboring non-NATO governments of Macedonia and Albania did not collapse as predicted, and all without a single allied combat casualty.
Tell us why Clark was forced
August 5, 2007 - 12:59 ET by Del DolemonteTell us why Clark was forced to retire...
Are they really different?
August 4, 2007 - 15:18 ET byYES, and we see the Kos tolerance for the difference
next year: 'Truth and Lies are they really different?'
Supreme Court, National Security, Borders, Fiscal Restraint, my litmus test for President.
Kos-monauts
August 4, 2007 - 16:32 ET by ConservativeRexThese idiots at Kos and those that support them are blogging that this soldier should not have been allowed to speak at this function in uniform!!
The nerve of these Stalinist to even approach him on those grounds. He was addressing how the surge was working and they would have none of it!!
Why oh why are we giving these Un-Anti-Americans a podium to spout their BS, and I am tired of that old canard of "we're fighting so they can speak". That is a load of crap! I have studied Theodore Roosevelt for decades and know he would have never let these Stalinist get away with this. If Conservative politicos ever, ever grow a spine they could do away with this, and I'm telling you the folks would be behind 'em! We are so damned worried about hurting someone's "rights" we let garbage like this continue. These leftist use the Bill of Rights etc as a door mat to wipe their feet on, and I for one am tired of it.
Jean-Claude Kerry wore his
August 4, 2007 - 15:31 ET by Del DolemonteJean-Claude Kerry wore his uniform whilst protesting the Vietnam War. I guees it's OK to do so if one belongs to the "correct" political party LOL.
http://www.vietnamve...
By the way, much to Markos' consternation, this story is now being splashed atop the Drudge Report...
Liberal Mantra
August 4, 2007 - 15:31 ET by meepsMa an' I went to the circus
Ma got hit with a rollin' pin
We got back at that ol' circus
bought nine tickets
and din't go in
former navy guy.........................
Soo convenient 4 the netroots kook to ban the sargent from talkn
August 4, 2007 - 15:39 ET by upcountrywaterJohn ffing karrie, wore a uniform when he tossed his ( borrowed) metals away, did he not? That is the proper use of a uniform,, right!
Oh but tell the truth ( in uniform), now that's against the law
It' not the taxes that will wipe you out it's the fees and fines, everyone is a law breaker.
IRANIAN URANIMUN, 220 lbs and counting. Little boy = 60 lbs.
Wrong then and wrong now
August 4, 2007 - 19:15 ET by HeikiWhile I admire the young man's sentiment, he should have known better than to offer his political opinion in a public forum while in uniform. Let's be honest; if this dude had shown up at DKos in uniform and uttered Moore-ish statements, he would have been crucified, first and foremost, by the folks that frequent this site. It was wrong for JKerry to do and it was wrong for this chucklehead to do. The Uniform Code of Military Justics prohibits political speech while in uniform because it tends to suggest and endorsement of said speech on the part of the Department of Defense. Period.
Justice, that is
August 4, 2007 - 19:17 ET by HeikiUniform Code of Military JusticE.
;0)
Heiki
August 4, 2007 - 19:19 ET by Noel SheppardHeiki,
However, if he wasn't speaking about a political candidate or figure, isn't he allowed to talk about what's going on in the war? Or, is that also verboten?
Honest question, not a challenge. ns
Not without going through his Public Affairs Officer
August 4, 2007 - 19:29 ET by HeikiNoel,
A servicemember may only make commentary on things that are even *potentially* controversial for the services while in uniform if they consult with thier command's and or DoD's Public Affairs Officer beforehand. I have the Armed Forces Network beamed into my home, and the ''infomercials'' broadcast harp on the issue constantly. Not much grey area there. Doesn't matter which side of the political fence a person is coming from. The DoD takes its image of impartial instrument of the nation very, very seriously.
Heiki
August 4, 2007 - 19:33 ET by Noel SheppardHeiki,
Is just his appearance at a gathering like this considered potentially controversial, or is it what he says? Furthermore, is it possible that he got permission to attend? ns
Honestly, Noel, I don't know
August 4, 2007 - 20:02 ET by HeikiI have no idea whether or not the individual in question go the approval of their chain of command beforehand. Anything's possible. However, if he had received approval, I would think that we would have heard so by now. I do know that DoD guards its image more jealously than a mother bear her cubs. I'm not speaking in the abstract, either. I work for DoD. *Disclaimer* Nothing posted by myself at this site constitutes an endorsement by the Department of Defense.
;o)
Heiki
August 4, 2007 - 20:08 ET by Noel SheppardHeiki,
Thanks for your info. Actually, I'm not sure we would have heard about that yet, as we don't even know his name. It's also difficult to tell from the video whether or not Soltz asked if he had such permission. Frankly, I won't be surprised either way. ns
I find this
August 4, 2007 - 19:31 ET by Sonny LykosI find this hillarious:
"The Uniform Code of Military Justiceprohibits political speech while in uniform because it tends to suggest and endorsement of said speech on the part of the Department of Defense."
But any member of the Supreme Court, DOD, Dept of State, members of either house of Congress can say anything them damn well please.
Give me a break!
Actually, that's only partially true
August 4, 2007 - 19:40 ET by HeikiActually, if you are a servant of the government who is unelected (i.e. hired, enlisted or commissioned), whether a United States Civil Service employee or military member, you are prohibited from any action that might associate your government organization with your cause/speech. An example would be making statements at the DKos convention with your (insert government agency identifier here) button on your shirt. Elected officials and government officials making statements in their official capacity is a different ball game. You can work for DoD and be politically active, you just have to stay away from appearing to tie your agency from your, key word here: *personal* views.
Equivalency, Equivalency, whereever you go these days
August 4, 2007 - 19:40 ET by ThisnThat"...uttered Moore-ish statements he would have been crucified, first and foremost, by the folks that frequent this site".
And he would have deserved it. There is a big difference between patriotism and surrender. They are not equivalent, and it's nuts of anyone to think so. The KOs people do not support this country, its values, its military, its morals, or our civilazation and way of life. They are all for tearing it down and replacing it with their twisted set of values, logic, and so on. When have you heard Moore say anything good about this country, and back it up with solid data and facts? He doesn't. So to compare him with this soldier is simply wrong, and any equivalency you are trying to make is simply not valid.
It's not a matter of equivalency
August 4, 2007 - 19:44 ET by HeikiTT,
I'm not equivocating. I stand 100% behind the guy's views, being a veteran of seven years and one war, and I can tell you, victory sure is a lot better than surrender! And yes, I got shot at. It's simply a matter of DoD policy, which this fellow failed to adhere to. I didn't write that policy and whether or not it's an appropriate policy is for others to decide.
DoD Policy
August 4, 2007 - 21:27 ET by ThisnThatCommenting on DoD policy is a lot different than imagining what would happen if he agreed with Moore's opinion. I agree, making a speach or comment on certain topics while in uniform is not something one should do without clearing it beforehand. I know I was always very concious of my actions while in uniform (and even in civies). That's one thread. Whether he agrees with Moore or not is another. You've clarified your point. Thanks.
Heiki you couldn't be more
August 5, 2007 - 12:02 ET by OIFveteranHeiki you couldn't be more wrong in your interpretation of the regs.
yKos is not a politcal event. It is a convention for bloggers. Nor has the federal government listed it as a totalitarian, facist, communist, or subversive organization. If NewsBusters held a convention any soldier would be allowed to attend in uniform.
The statement that the soldier made was not political. He made a factual statement about the surge (which is a military strategy, not a political one) and challenged that POS Soltz to prove him wrong.
The disgraceful currently serving Reserve Officer Soltz knew he didn't have a leg to stand on and threatened the soldier (wrongfully) with things he should be charged with anyways.
http://www.votevets....
http://www.votevets....
Soltz founded Votevets, uses his uniform on the site, and endorses political candidates on that same site. If anyone broke the regs here it is him, not the Sgt.
<insert something clever>
Adam Kokesh
August 4, 2007 - 20:31 ET by ding7777An Iraq war veteran will be kicked out of the Marines days early with a general discharge after he wore his uniform during an anti-war demonstration, the military announced Wednesday.
The military said Lt. Gen. John W. Bergman, commanding general of Marine Forces Reserve in New Orleans, agreed Monday to give Marine Cpl. Adam Kokesh a general discharge, based on the recommendation of a panel that met last week at the Marine Corps Mobilization Command in Kansas City. A general discharge is one notch short of honorable.
Hopefully it won't Come that here
August 4, 2007 - 20:52 ET by HeikiHopefully things won't devolve to that level in the instance of our DKos attendee. Most likely (presuming he didn't have permission) he'll get a simple letter of reprimand or even just some extra duty and a reminder of DoD policy concerning political activity while in uniform. DoD bases their decisions in these types of activities in relation to the level (if any) of discredit to the services that is engendered as a result of said activity/speech while in uniform.
Heiki
August 4, 2007 - 20:59 ET byIt is a military decision in this case not a Kos decision. Kos showed their intolerance. The two cases cited are different in that in this new case the troop is not acting in opposition to his mission, while protesting at an anti-war rally is. Much difference indeed.
Supreme Court, National Security, Borders, Fiscal Restraint, my litmus test for President.
Absolutely
August 4, 2007 - 21:21 ET by HeikiAbsolutely different situations. Personally, if I was ordered as his supervisor to give him some remedial ''training'' on the subject of conduct while in uniform, I would make it the most watered-down thing I could believably put to paper and then promptly throw a party for the guy. Off duty, off base, and out of uniform of course!
Cheers!
Training
August 4, 2007 - 21:37 ET bySo you would go above and beyond the orders and include training on behavior while out of uniform also? Most excellent.
Could you possibly give him confinement to quarters until 0900 for a week? (ie: he sleeps in)
Supreme Court, National Security, Borders, Fiscal Restraint, my litmus test for President.
Watered Down Training
August 4, 2007 - 21:40 ET by HeikiLet's just say he'd be getting ''Watered Down.''
;o)
One of the many reason
August 5, 2007 - 04:48 ET by Jack BauerOne of the many reason Korkesh was kicked out of the Marines was for joining a so-called "anti-war" group, and for wearing his "uniform" at a so-called "anti-war" protest.
And although the bogus vet group leader Soltz claims :
The offense is to pretend to represent the military by wearing a uniform and taking part in events which clearly do not represent official military policy.
Unless Soltz is claiming that it is NOT officla policy to win in Iraq. That would be DEMOCRAT policy. He seems to have the two confused.
Oh, and by the way, Korkesh deliberabley set out to be discharged.
Kokesh had already received an 'honorable' discharge from active duty before he participated in the demonstration...
And what would make me assume Korkesh set out to create a stink and get kicked out of his reserve duty as well? This would...
Sure telling your superior to go fuck yourself is a great way to win over people. Unless of course that's the outcome you want. For publicity and such like.
I fail to see how the mystery soldier who wore his uniform to ask a polite question and challenge the head of the organization Korkesh purported to represent, could directly affect his performance.
Unlike KOKESH, this guy was making comment in support.
I assume you are adopting your ususal method of mendacity to try to compare a military man who represented official military policy at a discusion forum.
You cannot equate a man who stabs his colleagues in the back by joining a so-called "anti-war" rabble, with a man who actually DID represent the offical military policy of the United States. That would appear not to be an offense.
But it is interesting to see the jerk Soltz who heads up the bogus vets group try to twist it and get him charged.
Soltz is representative of
August 5, 2007 - 05:15 ET by daveinbocaSoltz is representative of the fecal underside of Kos's charm offensive.
Solz is a phony
August 5, 2007 - 05:19 ET by namvet66For anyone who has viewed the video regarding this blatant attempt by Solz to intimidate and shut off the Sergeant's remarks, please note his (Solz's) use of his FORMER rank in his remarks: "We are going to have a Captain ....."
Pure BS!! Solz is a civilian NOT a Captain. He is NOT allowed to present himself as such. ONLY a person on active duty or retired can do so. Therefore, is this not yet a another example of the far left's hypocrisy.
I (and other Nam Vets) will be watching Solz and his organization (who reminds me so much of another anti-war agitator from back in the 70's: John--The Rat-Bastard-TRAITOR-Kerry) to ensure he does not entertain any ideas of using our military for personal or political aspirations, much as Kerry did.
Anyone want to take bets that Solz will seek public office in the next election????? Giving 20 - 1 odds.
While it remains to be seen as to whether this Sergeant was remiss in his comments while in uniform, this is a matter to be decided by the Military and not by some wanna-be, moonbat, nutroot, "enforcer" such as Solz.
Had I been the Sergeant, I would have told Solz to go pound sand and challenge him to do anything about it!!!!
Not a former captain
August 5, 2007 - 09:57 ET by hf jaiBoth Soltz and the sergeant (who is no mystery, btw... his name is David Aguina and has been published in several papers) are in the Army Reserve. So Soltz is right and proper in his duty to address him "captain to sergeant," which is exactly what he did. An Army officer is obligated, by law, to correct misbehavior he is witness to by a subordinate, regardless of whether he is in the soldier's direct chain of command.
What Aguina did is illegal, pure and simple. No difference AT ALL between him and the marine who was kicked out for attending an anti-war rally in uniform. Even if Aguina's view on the war is correct, he is wrong to exploit the uniform just to get a little more attention.
That all said, people should take the time to watch the video. Aguina was given almost two minutes to make his statement. He was not silenced. One of the other panel members (one who had not been in the military) wanted to get into a discussion with the troop, and Soltz, quite correctly, did not allow that to happen. In that sense, he was protecting Aguina from getting into more trouble that he was already in.
The legality depends on
August 6, 2007 - 10:05 ET by BDThe legality depends on whether it is determined that the Yearly KOS event was deemed "Political" or not.
For instance, if a solider were to walk into a room in which a protest was being held (Ala the Pentagon Protest of the 1960's) and were to voice an opinion that the prpotestors should not be protesting in that room, it would not be illegal.
That said, prudence should indicate that he wear something other than his Class-A Uniform.
Your headline is misleading
August 5, 2007 - 10:32 ET by hf jaiPajama media got it right when they said the sergeant was "censored." You say he was "prevented from speaking." Anyone can watch the video and see that's not true. In fact, he spoke for almost two minutes, which is a fairly long time for such a venue and scheduled end-time for the panel had already passed.
Also, there's a big difference in speaking out politically while wearing the uniform, which is clearly prohibited by military regulation (and thus the same as law for military personnel), and posting a photo of oneself in uniform at a political website.
Political candidates who are veterans, and quite a few who are on the military rolls, have ALWAYS used photos of themselves in uniform in their campaign literature. One's service record is part of who one is as a person and there's nothing wrong or illegal about letting people know about it.
As someone who served under
August 6, 2007 - 10:00 ET by BDAs someone who served under Wes Clark, I gotta tell you he was NOT my favorite. He was WAY to political a commander.