On Monday, the hosts of CBS This Morning, along with Face the Nation moderator John Dickerson, proceeded to defend the Black Lives Matter movement in wake of former New York City Mayor Rudy Giuliani slamming the left-wing group as “inherently racist.”
The segment began with a clip of Giuliani telling Dickerson on Sunday’s Face the Nation: “When you say, ‘Black lives matter,’ that's inherently racist....Black lives matter, white lives matter, Asian lives matter, Hispanic lives matter. That's Anti-American and it's racist.” After the tape, puzzled co-host Charlie Rose asked: “So what did you make of the former New York mayor?”
Dickerson claimed not to know what the Republican was talking about: “So it’s not clear what he means. But what he seems to mean is that the Black Lives Matter phrase is about black lives mattering more. The Black Lives Matter phrase is about the argument that black lives should matter as much as...”
Co-host Gayle King advocated on behalf of the cause: “And that's why it's so frustrating, John, because anybody in the Black Lives Matter movement has never said that black lives matter more than yours. No one’s ever said that. They're just trying to bring attention to the cause that a lot of black, unarmed men are being shot by white police officers.”
The fact that Black Lives Matter protesters have repeatedly shouted down anyone stating “all lives matter” flies in the face of that assertion.
Fellow co-host Norah O’Donnell fretted: “But is there a certain responsibility by politicians, former politicians, and even those of us in the media to make sure that the facts are clear? I mean, Giuliani said on your show yesterday that ‘the real danger to them is that 99 out of 100 times it's other black kids who are going to kill them.’ That's not true.”
Only seconds later, she completely contradicted herself by citing the actual numbers that nearly matched Giuliani’s claim: “Well, according to FBI statistics, 90% of black people are killed by black people and 82% of white people are killed by white people. I mean, those are the facts.”
Here is a full transcript of the July 11 segment:
7:15 AM ET
CHARLIE ROSE: On Face the Nation yesterday, former New York Mayor Rudy Giuliani defended tough policing policies. He accused the Black Lives Matter movement of doing what it wants to stop.
[ON-SCREEN HEADLINE: “Inherently Racist”; Giuliani Slams Black Lives Matter Movement]
RUDY GIULIANI: When you say, “Black lives matter,” that's inherently racist.
JOHN DICKERSON: Well, I think they’re argument would –
GIULIANI: Black lives matter, white lives matter, Asian lives matter, Hispanic lives matter. That's Anti-American and it's racist.
ROSE: CBS News political director and Face the Nation moderator John Dickerson joins us now. Good morning.
DICKERSON: Good morning, Charlie.
[ON-SCREEN HEADLINE: Getting the Message?; Dickerson on Black Lives Matter Movement & Debate]
ROSE: So what did you make of the former New York mayor?
DICKERSON: Well, you know, it depends what he means by Black Lives Matter. I mean, there's the movement and then there’s the larger movement for social justice and they get mixed a lot. The protest in Dallas is called the Black Lives Matter protest, it wasn’t. So it’s not clear what he means. But what he seems to mean is that the Black Lives Matter phrase is about black lives mattering more. The Black Lives Matter phrase is about the argument that black lives should matter as much as, and that's the disconnect, and that's not an uncommon disconnect that he was speaking to there.
GAYLE KING: And that's why it's so frustrating, John, because anybody in the Black Lives Matter movement has never said that black lives matter more than yours. No one’s ever said that. They're just trying to bring attention to the cause that a lot of black, unarmed men are being shot by white police officers. And it's frustrating, I think, because people think Dylan Roof, who did the shooting in Charleston, South Carolina, killed nine people, James Holmes who killed, you know, over 12 people in Colorado, wounded 70, both white people, were both arrested, and not killed. And you're thinking, how are these people able to survive, and unarmed black men are being killed? It’s very difficult.
DICKERSON: Well, I – I think the – Newt Gingrich was the one who has in the last few days said that there is – that white people thinking about this idea instinctively underestimate that sense of threat that comes, and that it is – in order to have this conversation, both sides need to understand the other. And that if you take the Gingrich approach to Black Lives Matter and this idea that you are instinctively underestimating the threat from the police, then you can begin a conversation that understands that in certain communities, young, black men in particular, feel a sense of threat. And that's what Gingrich was talking to. Rudy Giuliani more broadly was trying to push back, feeling like there's been an over-focus on the police trying to paint with too broad a brush. Of course, that's also what those in the African-American community feel, like there’s also been too broad a brush in defining the Black Lives Matter movement.
NORAH O’DONNELL: But is there a certain responsibility by politicians, former politicians, and even those of us in the media to make sure that the facts are clear? I mean, Giuliani said on your show yesterday that “the real danger to them is that 99 out of 100 times it's other black kids who are going to kill them.” That's not true.
DICKERSON: Well, yes, there is a fact issue in this entire conversation. I think what ends up happening is, you know, Rudy Giuliani was trying to push back against the idea that – well, he was mixing, he was also conflating. It's possible – it’s possible that violence in certain neighborhoods can be bad and it can also be possible that there are racial disparities in the criminal justice system. Those two things can both happen at the same time. He was kind of mixing them.
O’DONNELL: Well, according to FBI statistics, 90% of black people are killed by black people and 82% of white people are killed by white people. I mean, those are the facts. Where is the onus on –
KING: And those are issues that need to be addressed, too.
DICKERSON: Right, but the problem is when you mix –
O’DONNELL: Yes, and does that – where does that conversation come from?
DICKERSON: Well, where the conversation comes from, at least from Rudy Giuliani, is his argument is if you care about black lives, then you should focus on this other thing. The response to that is you can focus on both.
KING: Yes.
DICKERSON: And that when you talk about the police, you're talking about a specific instance in which people are given the authority to use force by the state and that that requires certain limits. And that's a separate conversation from the violence that’s happening in African-American communities and mixing them only clouds the issue, some people would argue.
ROSE: We want to talk about some politics as well.
KING: Do we?
ROSE: But one question, what about the President – well, is this going to be a political issue? Is this going to sharpen and are people going to be responsible?
[ON-SCREEN HEADLINE: The President’s Message; Dickerson on Obama’s Response to Deadly Shootings]
KING: Yes, yes. I’m just frustrated.
ROSE: All of us are frustrated. Not you, everybody.
KING: Yeah.
ROSE: What's the President going to try to do this week?
DICKERSON: Well, the President, you know, this is very tough for him because he's trying to do two things. I mean, yesterday when you saw the Secretary of Homeland Security with Commissioner Bratton in New York, they were sending a clear message, we're not anti-police. So the President wants to send that, but on the other hand he wants to also speak to the legitimate fears he sees in the African-American community.
O’DONNELL: John Dickerson, good to have you here. Thank you so much.
KING: To be continued.
