Open Thread: How Will Libya Proceed Without Gaddafi?
Earlier today, officials confirmed that Gaddafi has been killed at the hands of National Transitional Council forces near his hometown of Sirte. The former Libyan leader was found hiding with bodyguards beneath a road near the city. He had been injured by a NATO airstrike, and died from wounds suffered during his capture.
How do you think Libya will proceed without Gaddafi? Do you think Obama will lessen American involvement with NATO forces? Let us know your thoughts in the comments.
According to Reuters, Gaddafi's "death and the fall of the final bastion ended a nervous hiatus for the new interim government, which is now set to declare formal "liberation" with a timetable for elections."
Gaddafi's death does not necessarily indicate an end in American support to Libya, though. In President Obama's speech earlier today, he emphasized:
"...the United States, together with the international community, is committed to the Libyan people," he said. "Today's events prove once more that the rule of an iron fist inevitably comes to an end."
Republican leaders are also favoring continued American support in Libya.
Senate Republican leader Mitch McConnell said the United States and Europe would help Libya put together a representative government.
"A number of the people who led the Transitional National Council were educated in the United States, and we're obviously hopeful that they will want to have a representative government and that they will be an ally of the United States," he said.
How do you foresee a new government being constructed in Libya? Do you think we should maintain our same level of support?
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Comments
TSA random road inspections
Submitted by jon_torlin on Thu, 10/20/2011 - 3:43pm.
And so it begins, these people were not only not stopped in their tracks, they are going ahead with the road inspections that will at first appear to be random before becoming something right out of Nazi Germany and other dictatorships.
Tennessee Road Inspections
They tried to justify it by using an OK Trooper's stopping of Timothy McVeigh who was missing a license plate as an example, which is ridiculous in itself, that was just a routine stop.
What happens when they stop those trucks that have shotguns and rifles on the racks in the back windows, and etc?
We're getting closer and closer to being screwed as a free country. They do this for security, but this makes me feel real unsecure and quite frankly scares the hell out of me, especially when there doesn't seem to be any stopping of this dictatorship we're in.
-Jon
Your papers, please!
Submitted by Newsbubba on Thu, 10/20/2011 - 3:56pm.
Great way to start turning us all into agents of the state. I loved the line, "The bottom line is this: if you see something suspicious say something about it,"
Based on that statement, I need to call TSA and warn them about all the crap going on in the White House, starting with the fact that our president is a RBFSOB.
Forward? Perhaps I would say: "Headless!"
Submitted by MaximusBraveheart on Thu, 10/20/2011 - 4:32pm.
Another slippery slope:
Cash illegal to buy all used pawn items! Once that, what is the next on their list? Then once far enough down that road they will just get rid of cash & make all bartering illegal.
Another case of the "wisdom" of government decisions. The cure is worse than the problem. Plus, this has to be illegal. Read what is printed right ON the currency!
"Lawyer Thad Ackel Jr. feels the passage of this bill begins a slippery slope for economic freedom in the state."
------------------------------------------
http://www.klfy.com/story/15717759/second-hand-dealer-law
Law Bans Cash for Second Hand Transactions
Cold hard cash. It's good everywhere you go, right? You can use it to pay for anything.
But that's not the case here in Louisiana now. It's a law that was passed during this year's busy legislative session.
House bill 195 basically says those who buy and sell second hand goods cannot use cash to make those transactions, and it flew so far under the radar most businesses don't even know about it.
"We're gonna lose a lot of business," says Danny Guidry, who owns the Pioneer Trading Post in Lafayette. He deals in buying and selling unique second hand items.
"We don't want this cash transaction to be taken away from us. It's an everyday transaction," Guidry explains.
Guidry says, "I think everyone in this business once they find out about it. They're will definitely be a lot of uproar."
The law states those who buy or sell second hand goods are prohibited from using cash. State representative Rickey Hardy co-authored the bill.
Hardy says, "they give a check or a cashiers money order, or electronic one of those three mechanisms is used."
Hardy says the bill is targeted at criminals who steal anything from copper to televisions, and sell them for a quick buck. Having a paper trail will make it easier for law enforcement.
"It's a mechanism to be used so the police department has something to go on and have a lead," explains Hardy.
Guidry feels his store shouldn't have to change it's ways of doing business, because he may possibly buy or sell stolen goods. Something he says has happened once in his eight years.
"We are being targeted for something we shouldn't be."
Besides non-profit resellers like Goodwill, and garage sales, the language of the bill encompasses stores like the Pioneer Trading Post and flea markets.
Lawyer Thad Ackel Jr. feels the passage of this bill begins a slippery slope for economic freedom in the state.
"The government is placing a significant restriction on individuals transacting in their own private property," says Ackel.
Pawn shops have been forced to keep records of their clients for years. However under this bill they are still allowed to deal in cash.
Doug MacDiarmid
-- Maximusbraveheart -- Is TRUTH knowable? Moral Relativism is the abandonment of Truth. Truth is knowable. Truth conforms to Reality. Reality is observable by evidence & witness in this day & from history. Relativism is Sesame Street play land.
AttackWatch.org
Submitted by Blonde on Thu, 10/20/2011 - 4:49pm.
We ought to just get it over with.....turn ourselves in now.
That way we get our choice of dorms in the re-education camps. NewsBusters Barracks, Building Numbers 35, 36, 37, and 38.
Handy Reference Guide to Obama's Gaffes and Goofs ~ Currently Numbering 200 (and Counting)
Good evening Blonde
Submitted by cocodrie on Thu, 10/20/2011 - 4:59pm.
thanks for having me in chat the other night. I'll see you at the camps, I'm bringing my baseball. Jack Benny already has building 39 reserved.
Jesus Loves You so much He died for you
Yes, Jon...The program was implemented by the Nazi Republican
Submitted by Jer on Thu, 10/20/2011 - 4:15pm.
Commissioner of the Tenneessee Dept. of Safety and Homeland Security, Bill Gibbons, who was appointed by the Nazi Republican Governor Bill Haslam, in a state absolutely swarming with Nazi Republicans.
Be very afraid.
Jer
states can't ban TSA patdowns...
Submitted by kata on Thu, 10/20/2011 - 5:07pm.
Can they ban things like this?
Banning TSA
Submitted by jon_torlin on Thu, 10/20/2011 - 5:22pm.
Texas had a chance to ban the TSA but somehow developed a case of Spinal Pastalitus in the end.(which still surprises me and angers me)
Technically speaking, the states could do it, and even the airports could tell them to take a hike, the law that created the TSA said they could after so much time. John Mica, one of the writers, has been trying to tell the airports this, but the TSA is taking the psychological tact of "if you get rid of us, we can't guarantee your safety" which is ridiculous in itself, I sure as hell wouldn't feel safe being fondled by a bunch of thieving pedophiles.
-Jon
Somalia style, with pirate ships cruising the Barbary Coast..
Submitted by upcountrywater on Thu, 10/20/2011 - 3:44pm.
The moslem state of progression, one way only back to the stone age.
Need an infrastructure to pump oil and that has been blown away. h/t O'bama.
You Didn't Build That.
The leaders say US will help?
Submitted by jon_torlin on Thu, 10/20/2011 - 4:00pm.
Well, I suppose it could, but it doesn't address the fact that the US participated in an action that violated several of its own laws doing so, and if no action is taken AGAINST the US Government for taking those steps of helping kill Kadaffi, this sets a dangerous precedent for future events.
And that's one of many dangerous precedents that have taken place by a manchild who does these things with stark outright impunity.
As for Libya itself, I don't think it could proceed with the way the current tribal situation is there, as soon as they get over the animalistic joy of killing Kadaffi, they'll calm down and realize that the tribes that worked along side of them are still enemies and start killing each other in order to take control.
-Jon
Another Iraq-2011 is the best likely outcome . . .
Submitted by Galvanic on Thu, 10/20/2011 - 5:21pm.
. . . which ain't very hopeful.
But Libya is more tribal, and together with the influence of Islamic fundamentalists, could create a security environment more akin to Afghanistan.
It won't even rise to the level of the Turkey model.
US fights al-Qaeda in Afghanistan and helps them in Libya
Submitted by lrgon on Thu, 10/20/2011 - 4:49pm.
No, we should not help Libya and we should withdraw from NATO as was recommended we do by Ohio GOP senator Robert Taft back in the 50's.
We get involved in disputes between lying and untrustworthy dictators and we end up having to kill them later on.
This is how crazy our foreign policy is and the lack of constitutional restraint our US congress has: Just 2 years ago GOP Senator McCain was in Tripoli and Gadaffi looked like an ok guy to him. McCain was there with Joe Lieberman and both senators said nice things about the dictator! Liberman and McCain praised Gaddafi as an "important ally," and promised they would seek more AID for his regime.
PBS draws fire ( deservedly so) for saying basically the same thing back in '86 that Lieberman and McCain said in 2009. The difference is that PBS doesn't have control of handing out foreign aid like these two goof ball senators do!
Phweet.
Submitted by The Vet on Thu, 10/20/2011 - 11:58pm.
This is how crazy a conspirocrank loon is, that it thinks we will take anything it says seriously.
Yes, anonymous nothing nobody loon. We believe you. We really do. No. Really. One of the posters actually read your nothing nobody anonymous post all the way through. No. He did. Cross our hearts. You is respected here. Buckets of respect. Really. No one laughs at your conspirocrank loon posts. Really.
Well, the long
Submitted by bkeyser on Thu, 10/20/2011 - 5:07pm.
days, not weeks, seems to have finally come to an end. March 18th we were given the "days not weeks" speech. 217 short days (which, for those counting normally equals 31 weeks, but apparently not in this case) ago.
There is a National Journal piece entitled, "Even Libya Victory Holds Little Promise for Obama's Success." First of all, according to Obama, we didn't do much so I'm not sure how he can claim success. Secondly, just because Gadhafi is finally room temperature doesn't necessarily constitute victory.
NPR is reporting this: "Gadhafi was not executed by the fighters who captured him...", when there is ample video evidence that Gadhafi was alive and under rebel control. Don't want to make those rebels we supported look like war criminals now, do we NPR?
I'm glad Gadhafi's a slab, but for those excited about his ouster, you may want to take a look at Egypt and see just how democratic and secular they're becoming. How wonderful will it be when we're looking at Sudan, Egypt, and Libya as contiguous radical Islamic countries rimming northeastern Africa? By the way, did anyone ever locate all those anti-aircraft missiles that were lost in Libya?
This won't be good for the U.S. --Obama's foreign policy has been -unlike the National Journal piece tries to suggest- an unmitigated disaster. So far we've supported the removal of two dictators in Africa that posed no threat to the U.S. or Israel. I have my doubts we'll be able to say the same for those who replace them.
Final note: The McCain-Graham team is surely prepping for the cameras tonight. These two idiots will be the face of the GOP for the next week.
get the hell out
Submitted by dmacleo on Thu, 10/20/2011 - 5:39pm.
we need to leave and stay out of it, same with uganda.
when did we become contract mercenaries?
EXCLUSIVE: Gaddafi Death Photo
Submitted by im41 on Thu, 10/20/2011 - 6:00pm.
Funny
OK admins, this clown is back...
Submitted by motherbelt on Thu, 10/20/2011 - 8:32pm.
and once again using the threads for the sole purpose of linking to another blog.
How long are you going allow it this time?
oh the irony....obama the imperialist
Submitted by MidAmerica on Thu, 10/20/2011 - 6:07pm.
What are we going to say when Russia, China, or any other country decides to 'take out' another country's rulers?
From our political competitors point of view our decision to overthrow other governments and attempt to install a government friendly to us is a provocation against their national interests. We are going back to the days of imperialism when competing Europeans were sailing the globe looking for territories to bring under their control.
We will see the radical
Submitted by Dan The Man 2 on Thu, 10/20/2011 - 6:08pm.
We will see the radical elements of Islam come into power in Libya. Well maybe not us but Libya will see them. If things go south I'm sure we will not see them.
Tears flow for Gaddafi at BBC
Submitted by upcountrywater on Thu, 10/20/2011 - 6:23pm.
Just the first 15 seconds of this video proves there will be mourners.
You Didn't Build That.
More importantly, what about us and our self-righteousness?
Submitted by russedav on Thu, 10/20/2011 - 7:27pm.
It seems we never learn. We were quite self-deluded in our self-righteousness condemning the Nazis for their Holocaust but strangely quiet (really not so strangely for comrade FDR) when it came to our USSR "ally" for whom FDR whored, ignoring Churchill's grave warnings, conveniently ignoring their far worse atrocities; but God was watching, and as He, as Lincoln fearfully observed, demanded, in Civil War blood, just payment for our atrocities against our Negro brother, will He no less demand at least as much for our far worse unrepentant, self-righteous arrogantly hypocritical demagoguery against the Nazi while/but excusing the USSR, thumbing our nose in His righteous face for which we are not paying in butchering our unborn in tens of millions far worse than anything the Nazis ever allowed. Be sure your sins will find you out, as we have embarked on a fatal, evil road we give no signs of abandoning, of turning our backs on Jesus, the God of our Founders, which they promised their posterity would be certainly and as terribly as certainly, fatal. Only God can save us, Lord have mercy, and we seem to have done everything in our power to ignore HIm Who alone can save, specifically save us. Great ones like Dostoyevsky & Solzhenitsyn, who understood suffering and God's Judgment, unlike us, knew such things. As Puck said to Oberon in A Midsummer Night's Dream, Lord what fools these mortals be.
Gaddafi is dead - killed, bagged, eradicated, erased, quashed.
Submitted by Gary Hall on Thu, 10/20/2011 - 7:33pm.
Gaddafi, Khadaffi, Gadafi, Ghaddaffi, Qaddafi is dead.
Thus ends an international spelling nightmare (Hat Tip to my friend, Rock).
(;~> gary
Good one, Gar
Submitted by Blonde on Thu, 10/20/2011 - 7:34pm.
I generally used Colonel Daffy.
2" Rib Eye on the grill...must run shortly!
Handy Reference Guide to Obama's Gaffes and Goofs ~ Currently Numbering 200 (and Counting)
It's not over yet, Gary!
Submitted by motherbelt on Thu, 10/20/2011 - 8:36pm.
We still have to deal with the nightmare of pronunciation and spelling of Hez bol-LAH, Hizz-bo-LAH, HEZ-boll-ah, HIZZ-boll-ah, Hez-BOLL-ah Hez -BULL-ah, Hiz-bull=AH, Hiz-BULL-ah....
Make it stop!!!
you're kidding right...?
Submitted by wizardjr on Thu, 10/20/2011 - 7:41pm.
six months to a year until it officially becomes another sharia $h!thole and the oil money is used to fund exploding towelheads around the world... duh!
Details of 9-9-9
Submitted by GregE on Thu, 10/20/2011 - 8:18pm.
New details on the site.
http://www.hermancain.com/999plan
I know debates are 30 or 60 seconds of speaking at a time, but I've watched them all and Herman has not mentioned tax credits, up to the poverty level. That is not a small point, and he should make it. I haven't heard him mention it in any interviews either. Of course I've not seen all his interviews, but I've seen enough to know he's asked about 9-9-9 all the time and has ample time to get this piece of info circulating.
In the Scoring Report.....
This paper computes the tax bases for the following three tax reform proposals: a business
transactions tax; a comprehensive factor income tax (flat personal income tax); an expanded
retail sales tax (Fair Tax). In this paper, we find the revenue neutral tax rate, assuming no
growth effects, and assuming no exemptions, deductions or credits. Recognizing that relief for
low income taxpayers will inevitably be part of any tax reform, we also estimate tax rates
assuming that each plan will provide a refundable credit equal to the tax rate times the poverty
level. (This amounts to subtracting the identical amount from each tentative tax base.) Finally,
we will combine the three bases to examine four hybrid proposals that split the rate between
each of the combined bases. Specifically we will examine a variant of the Laffer/Moore Tax
that combines the business transactions tax and a flat personal income tax and a plan that
combines all three bases.
It's funny to read the neos praising Obama's foreign policy
Submitted by lrgon on Thu, 10/20/2011 - 8:25pm.
Are they simply bipolar or just plain ignorant of their conservative principles? Obama is a dictator in chief and all they can do is write stupid poems about a dictator the US government and GOP politicians were bending over backwards to befriend. http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,417184,00.html
http://www.reuters.com/article/2008/11/17/us-libya-usa-idUSTRE4AG3V22008...
Laugh about it America
Submitted by Cool Arrow on Thu, 10/20/2011 - 8:44pm.
You may think it's funny Qadaffi's gone, but he's been a close fashion adviser to the First Lady for the past three years.
Gotta give credit where it is due, Cool---
Submitted by matthewdean on Thu, 10/20/2011 - 8:55pm.
Moochelle did put new emphasis on the "Belt" in Beltway.
MD
With any luck Obama will head
Submitted by jkwtrading on Thu, 10/20/2011 - 9:20pm.
With any luck Obama will head to Libya to occupy the vacancy.. he would be closer to home.
Accurate forecasting.....
Submitted by HillbillyKing on Thu, 10/20/2011 - 9:52pm.
Now this is what I call professional CYAin,
NOAA has given the Northeast and Mid-Atlantic an EQUAL chance of seeing below, above or near-average temperatures and precipitation this winter. (e.m.)
I never submitted the whole system of my opinions to the creed of any party of men whatever, in religion, in philosophy, in politics or in anything else, where I was capable of thinking for myself. -Thomas Jefferson
Now thats funny.
Submitted by Boudin on Thu, 10/20/2011 - 9:59pm.
Heh
...here's an item sure to NOT make it into the MSM
Submitted by vrwc13 on Fri, 10/21/2011 - 8:48am.
Announcing Retirement, Dem Congressman Bashes Obama
Rep. Dennis Cardoza, D-Calif., announced his retirement from Congress this afternoon -- and he issued a scathing parting shot at President Obama's track record on his way out.
In a statement explaining his decision, Cardoza, a leader of the centrist Blue Dog Coalition, said he was "dismayed" by the administration's "failure to understand and effectively address the current housing foreclosure crisis."
"Home foreclosures are destroying communities and crushing our economy, and the Administration's inaction is infuriating," Cardoza said.
A former chairman of the moderate Blue Dog Caucus, Cardoza also bemoaned the increasing partisanship in Washington, and blamed the media for fueling the ideological divide in the country, not giving enough attention to moderates.
(RELATED: Who else is leaving Congress?)
Cardoza is the sixth member -- all Democrats -- to announce plans to retire outright so far. He's also the third member of the Blue Dog Caucus to head for the exits -- joining fellow moderate Reps. Dan Boren, D-Okla., and Mike Ross, D-Ark.
...hmmm
v
The burden of life is from ourselves, its lightness from the grace of Christ and the love of God. - William Bernard Ullanthorne
BLACK LIBYANS EXECUTED IN LIBYA
Submitted by BARB BF on Fri, 10/28/2011 - 2:12pm.
October 25, 2011
Who Will Intervene Now?
Lynching Black Africans in Libya
by THOMAS C. MOUNTAIN
Black Libyans by the racist para-militaries who now rule Libya.
Bodies of black men hanging from highways. Bound and tortured bodies of Africans dumped along the roadsides. Am I talking about Libya or Louisiana?
And all under the approving eye of the first Black President of the USA.
The lynching of Africans in Libya has been so bad that African leaders across the continent have been forced to raise their voices in protest. When the President of Nigeria, the USA’s unofficial enforcer in West Africa leads an African wide outcry against the lynching of his citizens in Libya one would assume that it was heard in the Obama White House.
With the murder or expulsion of most of Libya’s African migrant population well on its way came the massacre and ethnic cleansing of tens of thousands of Black Libyans.
And all the while Barack Obama and his band of criminal cohorts in the western capitals and television news channels strung together words like “pro-democracy”, “freedom fighters” and “liberation” to describe the orgy of looting and lynching being carried out.
When Black Libyans took up arms to defend their families and homes from the Libyan lynch mobs they found themselves the beneficiaries of “pro-democracy” high explosives, delivered from on high by a freedom loving NATO air force.
Bombed from on high, lynched on the ground, the only choice is flee for your lives and that is what hundreds of thousands of Black Libyan have been forced to do.
And all under the approving eye of the first Black President in the White House.
Should we be surprised at such serpentine behavior by the first Black President? Isn’t this the guy who raised over $500 million to help him buy the White House, with $300 million of that from Wall Street?
I
Good evening BARB
Submitted by cocodrie on Fri, 10/28/2011 - 3:55pm.
What a nice insult to Louisiana. You must be one of those DAMN YANKEES.
Jesus Loves You so much He died for you