Open Thread: What If the NFL Played by Teachers' Rules?
In a WSJ article today by NFL Hall of Fame quarterback Fran Tarkenton, Tarkenton imagines an NFL set up like the public school system:
...Each player's salary is based on how long he's been in the league. It's about tenure, not talent. The same scale is used for every player, no matter whether he's an All-Pro quarterback or the last man on the roster. For every year a player's been in this NFL, he gets a bump in pay. The only difference between Tom Brady and the worst player in the league is a few years of step increases. And if a player makes it through his third season, he can never be cut from the roster until he chooses to retire, except in the most extreme cases of misconduct.
What do you think of Tarkenton's comparison? Let us know your thoughts in the comments.
In this alternate reality, the performance on the field would steadily decline without an incentive to play harder and risk getting hurt. "No matter how much money was poured into the league, it wouldn't get better."
Tarkenton also envisions the "few wild-eyed reformers" who would suggest "the whole system was broken and needed revamping to reward better results, but the players union would refuse to budge and then demonize the reform advocates..."
As he explains, in the context of the public school system:
Teachers' salaries have no relation to whether teachers are actually good at their job—excellence isn't rewarded, and neither is extra effort. Pay is almost solely determined by how many years they've been teaching. That's it. After a teacher earns tenure, which is often essentially automatic, firing him or her becomes almost impossible, no matter how bad the performance might be. And if you criticize the system, you're demonized for hating teachers and not believing in our nation's children. [...]
...[W]e need to reward great teachers who show they can make that happen—and get rid of bad teachers who don't get the job done. It's what we do in every other profession: If you're good, you get rewarded, and if you're not, then you look for other work....
In its current state, the American public school system has shown the failure of endless government intervention and spending, plus the destruction of individual initiative and innovation, preventing the system from ever improving. What are your thoughts on the matter?
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Comments
Imagine the opposite
Submitted by CO2Maker on Mon, 10/03/2011 - 9:10am.
NFL: "Your numbers suck. You let the outside linebacker beat you to your left on every play. You've thrown four interceptions in one half. Your yards-per-carry is 1.2. We're trading you, and if no one picks you up, we won't renew your contract."
Teacher's union: "My numbers suck? So what, it's not mentioned in my contract. That guy's beating me to my left? So what, not in the contract. Four interceptions? Contract says my limit is 18. Yards per carry? Not defined in the contract. Trading me? You wish. See you in September, and, by the way, you owe me a raise."
Actually, it's even more blatant
Submitted by Great Debater on Mon, 10/03/2011 - 10:18am.
Actually, it would be even more blatant than that ... you see, NFL contracts are a little funny. NFL teams do NOT have to honor the remaining years of a contract. If they decide you're not worth the money during the subsequent years of your contract, they can either release you, or tell you that they're going to pay you less (or release you if you don't agree). So, not only can they chose to not renew a contract, they can just wand up a current one and throw it away.
Union Committees
Submitted by BeanMan on Tue, 10/04/2011 - 6:44am.
Imagine now that the NFL can't fire anyone so the Union needs to pack the teams with more players to jack up the dues payers etc. So the union now states the need for a quarterback committee to set the playing rules for the quarterback and so they staff it with 25 so-so, mediocre players that can't actually play and then they meet and discuss and set the rules of how the actual quarterback, just on that team, should play and such. This then occurs for the offensive line, one committee of 25 or so for each position, and then the defense and the receivers and the running backs etc etc.
Pretty soon a typical football team would have ten times the number of players they had before with only 50 or so that actually play and the other 200 filling out the committees and making the rules for the 50 to play by. This would apply to each team. Eventually the owners would sell because the ticket prices would be so high no one would come to games so the State would assume ownership of the teams and there would then be an enormous State bureaucracy to handle the NFL which would then become the SFL and the Super Bowl teams would be chosen by whichever teams make the best use of their committee members and have the most diversity and such.
Yuck!!!
Since government is coercion, politics is largely the exercise of deception regarding the intended use of coercion - George Orwell
No audibles
Submitted by CO2Maker on Tue, 10/04/2011 - 9:23am.
Teachers union rep: You have to run the play we called.
NFL QB-teacher: But they're putting six men in the box. We can go outside or throw to a one-deep defender.
Union: That sounds like a voucher to me. No.
QB: But we'll burn them for 30 yards.
Union: Or a charter play. Nope. Can't do it.
They run the play and the QB is sacked for a 6-yd loss.
Union: Okay, that wasn't so bad.
QB: It's second and 16. Are you nuts?
Union: Don't worry. The coach threw the red bag. We're going to sit down the the refs and do some corrective bargaining before next game.
QB: Smith was 10 yards behind the corner. I had him for 30, 35 yards. That play is there all day long if you let me audible it.
Union: Nope. We'll add that next year. But we can't use it against Green Bay because Walker doesn't allow corrective bargaining up there. Maybe in Detroit, though.
I've always argued that the laws employers face daily...
Submitted by JohnMcGrew on Mon, 10/03/2011 - 10:19am.
...should be applied to professional sports. What about the ADA, maternity leave, gender & racial equality, quotas, etc?
How interesting would any of our professional sports be if they were required to abide by the laws and regulations that all other businesses in America face?
If these laws were applied to professional sports, then all of America would get to see the collateral damage that such regulations force upon our economy. Finally, non-economists could easily understand the implications. I can't think of any better lesson that would make the point.
Wow.............if they
Submitted by killa37 on Mon, 10/03/2011 - 12:54pm.
Wow.............if they started enforcing 'racial' equality and quotas - the NBA wouldn't be able to beat any college teams, and the NFL probably wouldn't be doing much better. What about hockey??? Now there is an unfair 'racial' set-up!!! I know that professional surfing is small in comparison, but they'd have to go scour the planet to find some 'balance' to their 'racial' make-up.
And are any men reporters allowed inside the locker-rooms of women's sports, such as basketball, softball, or soccer??? Remember what the legendary Jim 'Catfish' Hunter said when he was asked what women reporters would find out when they were finally allowed in the men's locker rooms? 'Not all men are created equal'!!!!
I had the Sunday night NFL game on last night, and I heard Al Michaels (who is reportedly some kind of a conservative) take an off-handed swipe at Warren Buffet for wanting the 'rich' to pay more taxes.
And I STILL can't find a box to make a comment in!!! Four straight days!!! And I've tried everything that all of my buddies have told me............
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Submitted by killa37 on Mon, 10/03/2011 - 12:57pm.
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I've thought this for years
Submitted by Tugboat Phil on Mon, 10/03/2011 - 10:22am.
They want a union, but they also want special perks for "special" players. You don't see that in a pipefitters union. The NFL would also have to have a bunch of guys suited up just to sit on the bench and stand on the sidelines. They'd always end the game in a tie for the overtime pay.
And while we're talking union language here, how about taxing these millionaires!!
Hmm,
Submitted by Boudin on Mon, 10/03/2011 - 10:30am.
I think this is the Brown model for the last few years. Well them and the Orioles?
Was wondering where Fran had gone
Submitted by IgnatzJFahrquar on Mon, 10/03/2011 - 10:39am.
With common sense statements like above he'll be lucky to find any work, let alone be asked for his opinion in the future.
Let's go further
Submitted by PrivateEyes on Mon, 10/03/2011 - 6:27pm.
Let's institute a "No Player Left Behind" policy. All teams must allow any person interested in playing football onto a team, based on residency. All players must be allowed to play. All players must achieve outstanding stats on the field. If the player doesn't perform, blame it on the coaches, who have failed to coach their players properly. Of course, coaches will not be able to pick their teams, but must take the players assigned to them. If they're lucky, they'll get the "gifted team." If they're unlucky, they'll get the "special player" team. However, both teams will be expected to do equally well. Coaches who can't get their special players to perform as well as the gifted players will be penalized.
PrivateEyes, I say we blame the under performing player...
Submitted by USMC8411 on Wed, 10/05/2011 - 1:14am.
on the under performing player's PARENTS! The player drops the ball in the end zone... It's the parent's fault. The parent should have been more involved in the players practices and his performance on the field instead of working 2 jobs to pay taxes that pay the teacher's...ummm... coach's salary, retirement, medical and dental for life!
There are too many players on the team. The coaches only coach to the game. The coaches only do the job for the players! The coaches are overworked and under compensated. No player may be issued a voucher to play for another team out of fear of being more successful in playing the game.
AND BY NO MEANS WILL HANK WILLIAMS JR. BE ALLOWED HIS FIRST AMENDMENT RIGHT TO FREE SPEECH! Therefore, he will be removed from NFL history along with his intro song for speaking out against our dear leader, Das Fuhrer O'barry! Cenk-off Uighur thought he had it rough....
nfl teams
Submitted by alvin on Mon, 10/03/2011 - 7:12pm.
Each team's profit depends on being in the league. It's about tenure. The same scale is used for every team. There is no difference between teams. A team can never go bankrupt and leave the league.
NFL team's income has no relationship to whether the team is actually good - excellence isn't rewarded. Team income is almost soley determined by dividing the league income equally. That's it.. After a team is in the league losing money becomes almost impossible, no matter how bad the performance might be. And if you crfiticize NFL socialism you're demonized for hating football
We need to reward great teams and get rid of bad teams who don;t get the job done. It's what we do in every other profession. If you're good you get rewarded and if you're not, then look for another sport.
Response to flawed thinking
Submitted by Unsane on Mon, 10/03/2011 - 9:21pm.
Actually, excellence IS rewarded. There IS a reason why some teams are worth more than others, why some owners are more successful and powerful than others.
And, as much "socialism" as football has, time and time and time again it is easy to see who the good and bad organizations are. Talent on various levels is STILL uneven and some teams manage to constantly thrive decade after decade.
You need to look at football a lot more closely.
By the way, as to your last sentence: happens every year. Apparently you don't follow training camps and exhibition seasons. You know, trimming to 53-man rosters...
"CONSUMED DEMOCRACY RETURNS A SOCIALIST REGIME" - Slayer, "Fictional Reality", from Divine Intervention (1994)
Agreed Unsane to a certain point...
Submitted by USMC8411 on Wed, 10/05/2011 - 1:34am.
Talent on each team in the NFL is based on the draft and the order drafted with expectations of gaining valuable talent to make the team more successful and more powerful than others. The ultimate measure being the Superbowl. That is Capitalism. Investment with intention for positive gains.
While the talent is, and will always be, uneven... The player compensation will reflect that fact as well! But not in all cases. Look at Manning and the Colts. Is he being paid for his talent or performance this year? Nope. By definition, he has less talent this year than the worst QB in the league who is making much less than him as he rides the pine while the worst QB is taking hits... Manning is reaping the reward of a socialist NFL model. So he is being rewarded this year, so far, by lack of excellence. The Colts, without him, have not found success. And like socialism, when the golden goose is killed, socialism crumbles.
The reward for individual player value is based on capitalism. The more consistent the result, the more valuable you are to the team, and the higher your selling price is. That is why each team pays each player based on their value. Unless injured. Then the socialist system kicks in....
NFL
Submitted by Unsane on Wed, 10/05/2011 - 7:10pm.
The situation in the NFL is better than in some leagues, however. Manning can still be cut at any moment.
The NFL is "socialist" because you need TWO to tango at all times. The NFL understands that it needs a good amount of compelling teams or else the sport will get boring fast. So therefore it HAS to engage in some leveling of the playing field to achieve that end.
However, some teams are simply organized better than others. Take the Pittsburgh Steelers. Have they, since Chuck Noll was first hired in 1969, gone through a prolonged period of completely sucking? Not really. Why is that? And on the other side of the coin, look at teams like the Cardinals, who only in very recent years have tasted anything like success. The NFL, through the draft and revenue sharing have tried to see to it that the Cardinals can field a decent team, but for decades the Bidwells have been content to sit in the luxury booth sucking down ice cream while letting the team rot.
If anything in the NFL is socialist, for the most part its the fans. It's an interesting thing: the United States is a contradictory place. We constantly teach our children and remind ourselves to be all we can and to be successful in life. But Americans have an intense, passionate hatred of success. To wit: when the playoffs come around, you will hear "I don't want the Patriots to win (example) because they've won too many times and I want to see someone else win it."
"CONSUMED DEMOCRACY RETURNS A SOCIALIST REGIME" - Slayer, "Fictional Reality", from Divine Intervention (1994)
Love Privateeyes post! The
Submitted by Right Teacher. on Mon, 10/03/2011 - 8:03pm.
Love Privateeyes post! The idiocy of no child left behind is lost on most. As a conservative teacher, I believe a more appropriate moniker would be "No Parent Left Behind." Or, for giggles..."No Politician Left behind."
As for the analogies previously posted, please add the fact that all NFL players need to be Pro Bowl players by 2014. If the players don't make that goal, set by the "State", the owners, GM, and coach are graded publicly in their local newspapers and judged accordingly. No questions asked. You're not qualified. This despite the fact that not all players are the same. We can measure intelligence, speed, natural ability, and statistics. We can't measure motivation, parental involvement (well we can but we don't want to piss anyone off) and, as my Dad used to call it..."intestinal fortitude", otherwise known as guts.
Please undersand my fellow conservatives...there are those of us who try to correct all of the mush that our students' minds are filled with throughout the year. However, we are still lumped in with the stereotypical liberal teachers which permeate the education system. I am not a very popular person within my union. Trying to change the system from within is an immense challenge. Having people lump all teachers together is depressing for me. Help us change the system without harming the children that we so yearn to educate.
WSJ: MarketWatch : OccupyWS is a TeaParty with brains
Submitted by kata on Tue, 10/04/2011 - 12:35am.
read more here
I've learned that you can't
Submitted by ThisnThat on Tue, 10/04/2011 - 7:51am.
I've learned that you can't get factual or unbiased reports from Marketwatch. They are about as leftist as you can get.
__________
“Didn't win the Medal of Honor? Didn't even serve? Then lie about it. We'll support you." — 9th Circuit Court
grrr
Submitted by kata on Tue, 10/04/2011 - 9:37am.
well I guess can add that to my list of blocked "news" sites that Google puts in my newsfeed.
More rules
Submitted by ThisnThat on Tue, 10/04/2011 - 7:44am.
I know that there is a football rule book. But how about we experiment a little bit so that we "allow all football players to show their real creativity" on the field? Let's start by removing all those restrictive lines, and have an "Open Field" concept. And quit putting so much emphasis on "4 downs". Isn't 5 downs, or 7 or 8 just as "equivalent" as 4? And let's do away with the time clock. This puts too much stress on some of the players, and it's not fair to them.
Do we really need to keep score? Why can't we just have fun, instead? And how about giving everyone equal time with the football?
Right now, there's too much emphasis on "skilled players". This is, in fact, a very insensitive phrase that needs to be completely eliminated from the football language. Likewise, get rid of the uniforms. We have to recognize diversity on the football team, so let everyone put on whatever they want so they can "express" themselves. Speaking of diversity, why do we purposely want to exclude others from football? Why can't we accept the fact that baseball players, windsurfers, and golfers are also amongst us, and accept them on our football teams. In fact, education in these "alternative" sports should begin early in a football player's career, and instead of more classes on "blocking and tackling", we should replace these with football classes on baseball, windsuring, and golfing.
__________
“Didn't win the Medal of Honor? Didn't even serve? Then lie about it. We'll support you." — 9th Circuit Court
25-year-old NFL players
Submitted by CO2Maker on Tue, 10/04/2011 - 9:28am.
... still living at home are allowed to be carried on their parents' insurance policy, which will lower the operating costs of the NFL, enabling them to hire more offensive and defensive diversity coaches ... as if diversity training isn't offensive enough, already. (Don't go getting defensive about it, now.)
What if the NFL played by NEA rules?...
Submitted by USMC8411 on Wed, 10/05/2011 - 12:52am.
Well, they would go bankrupt of course! Just like we are doing now while letting the public union MINORITY rob us blind with pensions, gold plated health care, and the rest of their benefits "for the children!"
Hacks.
NFL under NEA rules: no critics allowed. Did YOU ever play?
Submitted by Unsane on Wed, 10/05/2011 - 7:13pm.
If the NFL played by NEA rules, fans would not be allowed to boo or to show ANY displeasure with a team's or player's play, unless they themselves are football players. Remember: to many teachers, they are 1000% above ANY criticism. No one but teachers can be critical of teachers. (This is why teaching is not a profession, in large part.)
"CONSUMED DEMOCRACY RETURNS A SOCIALIST REGIME" - Slayer, "Fictional Reality", from Divine Intervention (1994)