For general discussion and debate. Possible talking point: CBO scores House GOP's health care alternative.
CBO and the staff of the Joint Committee on Taxation (JCT) estimate that the amendment would reduce federal deficits by $68 billion over the 2010-2019 period; it would also slightly reduce federal budget deficits in the following decade, relative to those projected under current law, with a total effect during that decade that is in a broad range between zero and one-quarter percent of gross domestic product...
CBO anticipates that the combination of provisions in the amendment would reduce average private health insurance premiums per enrollee in the United States, relative to what they would be under current law-by 7 percent to 10 percent in the small group market, by 5 percent to 8 percent for individually purchased insurance, and by zero to 3 percent in the large group market. Those are averages, however, and they are subject to a great deal of uncertainty; some individuals and families in each market would see different results.
Smoking gun?
Editor at Large
Comments Policy
The liberals and democrats will...
November 5, 2009 - 09:41 ET by ontheright...focus all attention on this sentence, "...reducing the number of nonelderly people without health insurance by about 3 million in 2019 and leaving about 52 million nonelderly
residents uninsured.", and will declare the ammendment "worthless", regardless of the positive aspects contained therein.
Anyone willing to wager?
My 2 cents.
Who cares about Maine and gay marriage?
November 5, 2009 - 09:57 ET by shawn228I'm more happy with Breckenridge and Pot ;-)
"I think we're kindred spirits."~Mr Shy to Sergeant ROCK
shawn - hah!
November 5, 2009 - 11:06 ET by BO STINKSAs a Colo. native I can tell you that our mnt. towns have always been a refuge for hippies since the 60's. Then, when half of Calif. fled their state, they dropped on ours :-( Now the mnt. towns are filled with fruits, nuts, granola and aged hippies.
"How strangely will the Tools of a Tyrant pervert the Plain Meaning of Words!" ~Sam Adams
Many years ago I
November 5, 2009 - 16:04 ET by ricklailMany years ago I was studying the new-age movement in respect to religion. Every thing kept leading back to Colorado. The Aspen Institute seemed to be the ring leader. Now it seems that all this has moved to Arizona with the sweat lodges and Sedona (?).
Semper suprene nitens
OBAMACARE: If it ain't good enough for my Congressman then it ain't good enough for me.
Well this one will go down
November 5, 2009 - 10:37 ET by Willis_Leon_JohnsonIn flames fueled by msm hyperbole and democrat lies and obfuscations.
http://gjresult.com
Bush to blame...blah...blah...blah...blah...blah...
November 5, 2009 - 10:53 ET by vrwc13One year on, Obama cites struggle with Bush legacy h/t Drudge
v
...an error was made in 2008
four years of blame
November 5, 2009 - 10:59 ET by SouthJersey1953I firmly believe that Barry plans to blame Bush right up until the 2012 elections.
You can fix a lot of things, but, you can't fix STUPID! - Joe Murray
Barry plans to blame Bush right up until the 2012...
November 5, 2009 - 11:07 ET by vrwc13...:"I need 4 years to do what I can to un-do what Bush has done"
..."I then will need 4 more years to show you what I can do..."
Which all adds up to a bunch of do-do...
v
...an error was made in 2008
do-do is right!
November 5, 2009 - 12:08 ET by SouthJersey1953do-do is right!
You can fix a lot of things, but, you can't fix STUPID! - Joe Murray
Former President's legacy hard to overcome
November 5, 2009 - 20:14 ET by JakeMoObama can definitely blame a former president for the struggles he's encountering as he tries to "fundamentally change America."
But I think the name he's looking for is Madison, not Bush.
GOP Bill
November 5, 2009 - 11:06 ET by JDWThe GOP version is not government binding. It functions as a pooling system and alleviates state line firewalls. A serious problem with regard to the government plan is high risk coverage. Those applying with preexisting conditions are subject to six months of wait. Hope your cancer does not go into remission before or during that period.
JDW
DAILY WAVE
I didn't know ACORN was getting a lot of money
The AFL-CIO says this
November 5, 2009 - 11:32 ET by R D HelmThe AFL-CIO says this Chamber of Commerce commercial has racial overtones.
Gee, ya think it may be because, in their minds, it reinforces the "stereotype" that minorities have an unfair advantage over their white co-workers in the workplace?
Maybe they should have used all green people in the commercial.
Nah, the AFL-CIO would have found something to b*tch and moan about then, too.
-Dave
Our elected representatives have failed us.
AARP set to throw its support to PelosiCare...
November 5, 2009 - 11:38 ET by R D Helm...which means they are essentially willing to throw many of their members into an early grave.
Ya just gotta love the mental disorder that is liberalism.
-Dave
Our elected representatives have failed us.
Re AARP
November 5, 2009 - 11:56 ET by slickwillie2001And here's what the solution will be:
Medical Tourism - Available Soon Should Obamacare Pass: http://biglizards.net
I got some of the regular junk mail from AARP yesterday, an invitation to become a member. (It says 'renew' even though I have never been a member.) With membership comes a "free travel bag"! My suggested use –to go to another country for medical care when the Bamster's Death Panel rules out any more Obamacare for you.
slick, you are exactly right
November 5, 2009 - 14:07 ET by R D HelmThe elderly make up the wealthiest segment of our society. Most will have the money to travel abroad to get the health care they need.
-Dave
Our elected representatives have failed us.
Give AARP the boot...
November 5, 2009 - 13:56 ET by vrwc13Check this out here on Fox and here...their website.
...tell'em v sent ya...and don't throw away your old AARP card, it's worth a free year at the other guys... who believe in:
• Medicare Reform
• Tax Reform (Fair Tax)
• Keeping Citizen Benefits
out of the hands of illegal
aliens
BYE BYE AARP
v
...an error was made in 2008
The Killer V is
November 5, 2009 - 14:03 ET by Airforce_5_OAARP has become nothing more than a supporter of all things Liberal. Nothing more.
Liberalism: The haunting feeling that someone, somewhere, can help themselves.
vrwc,
November 5, 2009 - 14:15 ET by R D HelmI finally managed to convince my parents that further membership in AARP was not in their best interest.
LOL-It took me nearly a year to do it, too.
-Dave
Our elected representatives have failed us.
Bye-Bye, RINO
November 5, 2009 - 12:10 ET by vrwc13Bye-Bye, RINO
...don't get here every day, so not sure if ya'll have seen this...
This shows just how bad things have become. The Republican Party has been hijacked. Conservatives have been driven underground by the RINOs and the DIABLOs (Democrats In All But Label Only). This leftish creep was insidious until we got clubbed over the head when the ultra-liberal media picked our presidential candidate -- the Gang of 14 tool John McCain.
But now it's time to clean house. Newt and his ilk will be relegated to the dustbin of history, and deservedly so. Enough with the old, in with the true!
The new Republican partiers -- Palin, Michele Bachmann, Allen West -- these people are our future. The RINOs belong to the past. It is over for them. It's over for the Newts, the Romneys, the Steeles, the David Keenes, the Norquists, the Lindsey Grahams. Scozzafava's failure was just the beginning. You ain't seen nuthin yet. It is time to kick the RINOs to da curb. The next traitor to go must be Olympia Snowe.
It's time to take back America.
..so is this good or what!
v
...an error was made in 2008
In our ranks?
November 5, 2009 - 19:27 ET by Sergeant ROCKMore like in our 'leadership'.
"I ask, Sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people. To disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them."
George Mason
Smoking dope, not a smoking gun
November 5, 2009 - 12:21 ET by TheHistorianIf you think that SanFranNan is going to let this go anywhere, you need to get a California prescription for medical marijuana; suggest the medical necessity is total stupidity. Nancy will NOT allow this to see the light of day. She has already started out on it, with her "pre-existing condition" mantra (it does not force insurance companies to take on people with pre-existing conditions).
If you go the way Nancy wants, no one will buy insurance until they become sick. Sick is the alternate definition of "pre-existing condition", Nancy.
"What experience and history teach is
this - that people and governments never have learned anything from history,
or acted on principles deduced from it."
G. W. F. Hegel
Federal stimulus (pay-off) dollars "save" 473 teaching jobs...
November 5, 2009 - 12:56 ET by R D Helm...in a district that only has 290 teachers.
-Dave
Our elected representatives have failed us.
Bad News
November 5, 2009 - 13:35 ET by slickwillie2001I believe that the far-left wants to throttle the internet and make censorship possible so that they can eliminate dissent from socialism. If they can't do it through direct Congressional legislation, they will use the UN backdoor. This is really bad news and should not be lost in the kerfuffle over Obamacare:
Secret Copyright Treaty Leaks: http://www.boingboing.net
"....the whole world must adopt US-style "notice-and-takedown" rules that require ISPs to remove any material that is accused -- again, without evidence or trial -- of infringing copyright. This has proved a disaster in the US and other countries, where it provides an easy means of censoring material, just by accusing it of infringing copyright."
This is far worse than the 'Human Rights Tribunals' in Canada. At one level it's satisfying to see all the internet geeks going nuts over this, when they were ga-ga over the Bamster last fall. Another case of -'what were you thinking?' But it's bad for all of us, NB included.
Y'all ready for a $55+ Billion FHA bailout?
November 5, 2009 - 14:32 ET by R D HelmIt might not matter.
-Dave
Our elected representatives have failed us.
Mass murder at Fort Hood. Tx.
November 5, 2009 - 15:48 ET by Jack BauerFox reporting mass shooting 7 dead. 12 injured. 2 shooters. I captured.
UPDATE:
Fox reporting possibly TWO shooters on loose. I captured.
UPDATE
Maybe more victims. Post on lockdown (33,000 folks)
UPDATE
2nd shooter surrounded. 3rd shooter firing right now. All dressed in army fatigues
A young man, who is my
November 5, 2009 - 15:56 ET by ricklailA young man, who is my neighbor's brother, just left there about a week ago going to Ranger school.
Semper suprene nitens
OBAMACARE: If it ain't good enough for my Congressman then it ain't good enough for me.
rick -- Good luck to
November 5, 2009 - 16:09 ET by Jack Bauerrick -- Good luck to him. God speed.
This has all the hallmarks of a terror attack on American soil. Hood is a very symbolic and juicy target for groups about whom it's not worth speculating yet.
I served there in the late
November 5, 2009 - 16:17 ET by ricklailI served there in the late 60's early 70's. Like you said it is a juicy target.There are two major divsions there, 1st Cav, that's my boys, and the 4th Infantry. The place is big. There are so many roads that you can get on base from. I don't think any terrorist would ride throught the main gate.
Semper suprene nitens
OBAMACARE: If it ain't good enough for my Congressman then it ain't good enough for me.
AARP
November 5, 2009 - 15:58 ET by ricklailHas anyone heard of any backlash against AARP? I had to go pick up some parts this AM and was listening to Laura Inghram. She was inviting callers that were willing to burn or tear up their AARP cards to call and do it on the air. She was offering a Freedom Czar t-shirt. One lady did have a great idea. When you get the mailing from AARP, like my wife and I do, put it back in the pre-paid envelope and send it back with a message. Make them pay for the postage on a blank form.
UPDATE: I didn't look down far enough to see this was already begin discussed.
Semper suprene nitens
OBAMACARE: If it ain't good enough for my Congressman then it ain't good enough for me.
Anyone care to guess how long it'll take...
November 5, 2009 - 17:22 ET by PrairieSky"The One" to sprint down to Ft. Hood for a photo op??
Like Rahmbo Emanuel said..."Never let a good crisis go to waste..."
"The problem is not that people are taxed too little...the problem is that government spends too much." ~President Ronald Reagan
Sky... I've been on
November 5, 2009 - 17:32 ET by bigtimerSky...
I've been on Twitter today with the rally on Capitol Hill, then this happened, God my heart and prayers go out to the families.
I heard the most despicable, disgraceful statement by O regarding this all, he thanked people there at some group instead of getting directly to the point. I have never witnessed anything like that in all my life, and the msm dare talk about President Bush to us with the usual put down.
Switched real fast to Tingles Show and he made sure and mention HAND-GUNS...be ready for the attack on the 2nd Amendment next.
There is a lot to be answered yet, something really strange about all of this in my opinion.
'Doubling down on stupid is not a particularly good idea'~Breitbart
bt..."O" makes me sick...
November 5, 2009 - 17:47 ET by PrairieSkyI can barely stand to look at him anymore...He's probably got AF One warming up on the flightline right now for his photo op flight to Texas...
As for who the shooter(s) is/are, this first name that has come up is very, very interesting and not particularly surprising. A lot of questions here...Like you said, something really strange about all this...
"The problem is not that people are taxed too little...the problem is that government spends too much." ~President Ronald Reagan
He will be arriving at Gray
November 5, 2009 - 18:07 ET by ricklailHe will be arriving at Gray Army Air Field after he gets a good night's sleep.
Semper suprene nitens
OBAMACARE: If it ain't good enough for my Congressman then it ain't good enough for me.
Suspected Gunman Is
November 5, 2009 - 17:30 ET by R D HelmSuspected Gunman Is Identified by ABC News as Major Malik Nadal Hasan
Hmm.
-Dave
Our elected representatives have failed us.
Yep...there is really
November 5, 2009 - 17:34 ET by bigtimerYep...there is really something fishy about all of this Dave.
I'm furious for many reasons.
Beleive me, my heart goes out, but I know where all my mind has been regarding this, won't post it here..yet.
'Doubling down on stupid is not a particularly good idea'~Breitbart
bt, scuttlebutt is Maj. Hasan is a recent convert to Islam
November 5, 2009 - 17:36 ET by R D HelmBet this gets buried in a hurry.
-Dave
Our elected representatives have failed us.
Dave, they can't bury this
November 5, 2009 - 17:39 ET by bigtimerDave, they can't bury this one, going to go check into Twitter again soon as well.
Shep on Fox says he has the name but isn't saying it yet...he's talking to Hutchinson.
'Doubling down on stupid is not a particularly good idea'~Breitbart
Shep won't say Hasan's name. Fox should fire his ass!
November 5, 2009 - 17:44 ET by R D HelmPro-Islamic a$$hole Shep is.
Hell, ABC reported his name, why can't Shep?
-Dave
Our elected representatives have failed us.
Heck Dave...it's been all
November 5, 2009 - 17:47 ET by bigtimerHeck Dave...it's been all over Twitter as well, Shep says he wants to air on the side of caution.
Did you catch Walks on Water statement earlier, it was the most blatantly despicable thing I have ever seen.
Doubling down on stupid is not a particularly good idea'~Breitbart
He did say the name spoke
November 5, 2009 - 17:47 ET by ricklailHe did say the name spoke alot. I assumed then it was something tied to Islam.
Semper suprene nitens
OBAMACARE: If it ain't good enough for my Congressman then it ain't good enough for me.
Yep. Doubling down on
November 5, 2009 - 17:50 ET by bigtimerYep.
Doubling down on stupid is not a particularly good idea'~Breitbart
bt...I think that...
November 5, 2009 - 18:04 ET by PrairieSkyShep needs to move on...I have had about enough of his ever increasing lefty-leaning on-air comments...To be fair, Shep did just say that they can't get any of the sources who have given the shooter's name, to give their names...No one will go on the record with this...I guess they should be careful and I don't think I would go public with the shooter's name either if my source wouldn't give their name.
"The problem is not that people are taxed too little...the problem is that government spends too much." ~President Ronald Reagan
Sky...you and me
November 5, 2009 - 18:07 ET by bigtimerSky...you and me both!
Miracle he doesn't get out the hanky when he he keeps repeating that the killer just didn't want to be deployed...as if we are supposed to care.
Moles have to go...something has to be done to stop this without worrying about lawsuits from the ACLU etc.
I see where Fox edited out 'O' complete statement from the beginning...as usual when it comes to the press...too late, millions of us heard/saw it...and have commented and will never forget either...you wanna bet Rush doesn't mention it when he returns Mon. I'm waiting to hear Levin and others in the meantime.
'Doubling down on stupid is not a particularly good idea'~Breitbart
bt...Fox just named the shooter...
November 5, 2009 - 18:09 ET by PrairieSkySteve Centani on Bret Baier's show just named him.
"The problem is not that people are taxed too little...the problem is that government spends too much." ~President Ronald Reagan
Sky... Yep, glad Shep is
November 5, 2009 - 18:11 ET by bigtimerSky...
Yep, glad Shep is gone now.
Wonder how fast and furious the msm for the most part is going to investigate this fithy killer and his background..plus how long it will take for the pity party to start from some of the left...let alone the handgun issue.
'Doubling down on stupid is not a particularly good idea'~Breitbart
bt...The left will no doubt...
November 5, 2009 - 18:31 ET by PrairieSkyuse this as another BS opportunity to bash the military and the war..."The military is just a bunch of trained killers...war mongers..." yada, yada, yada...
Tha hand gun issue is bogus here...This took place on a military installation...There are going to be guns present. But, that bit of logic won't matter to the lefty idiots. And, I'm sure we will also see some form of twisted pity for the shooter...Sick, sick, sick. This guy was apparently a psychiatrist...Can you believe it??
"The problem is not that people are taxed too little...the problem is that government spends too much." ~President Ronald Reagan
Sky... I agree with you
November 5, 2009 - 18:39 ET by bigtimerSky...
I agree with you about the handguns and the bogus issue, but the left will try, as they always do, Matthews already did, and I had it there at the top of the hour just to check and see what msnbc was reporting, left after 30 seconds.
Completely agree about the military being bad bad bad as far as the left go...in any venue.
Just heard this killer was a shrink toboot.
Lovely scenario eh?
'Doubling down on stupid is not a particularly good idea'~Breitbart
bt...This guy had this well-planned...
November 5, 2009 - 18:49 ET by PrairieSkyHe had this all thought out...He chose the location because of the density of people that would be present, and because this was the location where soldiers depart for deployment and also return from a deployment...He was making a very clear statement here, the SOB...I'm just glad they killed the slime...I am sorry though that the cop that got him did die...What a hero he was. He likely saved others.
"The problem is not that people are taxed too little...the problem is that government spends too much." ~President Ronald Reagan
Amen to all of your post
November 5, 2009 - 18:52 ET by bigtimerAmen to all of your post Sky...couldn't agree more.
'Doubling down on stupid is not a particularly good idea'~Breitbart
BT & Sky
November 5, 2009 - 19:49 ET by MrShyWe have been at war since 8:46, 9/11/2001. (I was woken up around 8:45, btw, so that historic plane flew right over my bedroom.)
Bush. A flawed president who got soft after his initial attempts to take the battle to THEM, but if it were up to me I would have extended term limits for him. He was absolutely right that this was a war that would last for some time. He was also right that sane, peace-loving people of the world need to pick a side. Are we with him/the U.S. or are we with the terrorists?
MrShy...Agreed...
November 5, 2009 - 19:54 ET by PrairieSkyAlthough I have to add that all of our presidents have been flawed...It's just a question of how much and about what. As far as GWB is concerned, when it came to taking the fight to our enemies and keeping us safe, no one has done it better. Other than that, I'm with you.
"The problem is not that people are taxed too little...the problem is that government spends too much." ~President Ronald Reagan
Right you are Shy. I know
November 5, 2009 - 19:55 ET by bigtimerRight you are Shy.
I know one thing....I sure miss Bush compared to what we have now, everything is in shambles....and in my opinion we haven't seen anything yet.
I posted something somewhere with sentiments close to your post.
'Doubling down on stupid is not a particularly good idea'~Breitbart
Its time to get the camel-washers out of our military
November 5, 2009 - 17:54 ET by R D HelmThis type of thing is happening too often, and it usually involves recent converts to the "religion of peace."
-Dave
Our elected representatives have failed us.
Amen Brother Dave
November 5, 2009 - 18:06 ET by ricklailSemper suprene nitens
OBAMACARE: If it ain't good enough for my Congressman then it ain't good enough for me.
rick, I bet of the shooters were white Palin supporters...
November 5, 2009 - 18:09 ET by R D Helm...there entire life's story would havebeen posted all over the Internet by now.
-Dave
Our elected representatives have failed us.
Buried akive
November 5, 2009 - 18:44 ET by Sergeant ROCKWith a name like 'Hassan'? Not bloody likely!
If he is a 'convert', what of the other two? And when did that happen?
"I ask, Sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people. To disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them."
George Mason
Hey bt...
November 5, 2009 - 17:37 ET by PrairieSkyDitto...It sounds like you're thinking what I'm thinking...
"The problem is not that people are taxed too little...the problem is that government spends too much." ~President Ronald Reagan
RD...Hmmm is right...
November 5, 2009 - 17:35 ET by PrairieSkyWhat do you bet the others under arrest may have "similar" names??
"The problem is not that people are taxed too little...the problem is that government spends too much." ~President Ronald Reagan
Sky... I'm not betting,
November 5, 2009 - 17:41 ET by bigtimerSky...
I'm not betting, because I'm betting they are similar as well...or for sure affilitated, moles got in it seems to me, they plan long and hard to do these things, patience they have.
'Doubling down on stupid is not a particularly good idea'~Breitbart
Dave,I was thinking ☪ also.
November 5, 2009 - 17:37 ET by upcountrywater..brother to this ☭
"profile not; lest ye be profiled"
frack
State controlled health care ! music video.
Shep is trying to spin this as a stressed soldier incident
November 5, 2009 - 17:47 ET by R D HelmThis was an act of Islamic terrorism, I'm guessing.
-Dave
Our elected representatives have failed us.
Nice day the enemies within
November 5, 2009 - 17:54 ET by bigtimerNice day the enemies within picked to do this eh?
Coincidence...maybe, maybe not.
No matter what, O-Crew will be happy this distracts from the 20,000 that gathered on Captol Hill to Kill the Bill today....I don't care if that sounds cold, they are cold empty selfish people, all of them, I proved that with his sickening statement...he really showed what he is made of.
'Doubling down on stupid is not a particularly good idea'~Breitbart
bt, the HotAir thread is up to 14 pages already.
November 5, 2009 - 17:56 ET by R D Helmhttp://hotair.com/ar...
And Shep is still a spineless chickensh*t.
-Dave
Our elected representatives have failed us.
Shep...
November 5, 2009 - 18:06 ET by Georgia GirlIn my opinion, with the selective info Shep is releasing (and the manner in which he's doing it), he's actually being irresponsible because it's misleading -- irony of all ironies. His "abundance of caution" is a crock. He's so concerned about being PC.
Come on, does this soldier's family have to call Shep before he'll release the name?
"Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than outright exposure. The fearful are caught as often as the bold."~Helen Keller
Dave... Thanks, I got
November 5, 2009 - 18:09 ET by bigtimerDave...
Thanks, I got some links to follow in Twitter earlier about this, HA was one of them...of course.
'Doubling down on stupid is not a particularly good idea'~Breitbart
Tom Clancy,TheTeeth of the Tiger.....
November 5, 2009 - 18:34 ET by upcountrywaterFiction is now FACT, ok ok it wasn't in a shopping mall....
Party time in ☪ countries.
The window of opportunity, in dealing with these ☪ is closing fast.
State controlled health care ☭ ☭ music video.
This filthy killer was a
November 5, 2009 - 18:42 ET by bigtimerThis filthy killer was a shrink!
'Doubling down on stupid is not a particularly good idea'~Breitbart
Shrinking bigtimer
November 5, 2009 - 18:48 ET by Sergeant ROCKI heard once that 'shrinks' have the highest rate of suicides of any profession.
However, I don't think that's what at play here.
"I ask, Sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people. To disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them."
George Mason
Prayers to the victims and their families
November 5, 2009 - 19:02 ET by nwahsMay God give the victims and their families strength.
Hear, hear...
November 5, 2009 - 19:05 ET by PrairieSkyOur prayers are with them.
"The problem is not that people are taxed too little...the problem is that government spends too much." ~President Ronald Reagan
Is anyone really buying
November 5, 2009 - 19:01 ET by Jack BauerIs anyone really buying this?
ONE "medical" officer with two handguns, lets off 50 rounds, kills 12, wounds 30 -- all TRAINED military?
COME ON.
Also -- I've just heard a retired Genral on Fox say he won't speculate , then goes on to speculate, it was a "lone wolf; and not terrorist related.
Clearly the shooter was a Tea Party Baptist -- and should not be mistaken for some sort of Muslim. A word which hasn't passed the lips of any Fox pundit.
Medical Officers and guns
November 5, 2009 - 19:02 ET by Sergeant ROCKIn my experience, I've never known officers in general to be that great a shot.
"I ask, Sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people. To disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them."
George Mason
Sarge -- wouldn't you have
November 5, 2009 - 19:07 ET by Jack BauerSarge -- wouldn't you have to be Special Forces trained to get anywhere near that kill ratio?
Is it not more likely that such a large crowd of soldiers were controlled by others? I mean, what trained soldier is going to stand around and get shot?
Just speculating.
Special Forces
November 5, 2009 - 19:15 ET by Sergeant ROCKI would say no. And of course, he wouldn't get anywhere near the quality of training by some raghead in Asscrackistan.
While the number killed and wounded is high, it's not the highest recorded. Thanks to the rapid response of the MP's. There's just too much not known at this point. But, you have to figure that in the right scenario, mass chaos and panic, I could see how you could achieve such numbers.
"I ask, Sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people. To disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them."
George Mason
~
November 5, 2009 - 21:42 ET by shawn228"I think we're kindred spirits."~Mr Shy to Sergeant ROCK
Latest Hasan spin: He was a mental health professional...
November 5, 2009 - 19:07 ET by R D Helm...and had recently gotten a bad review on his quality of work.
Yeah, that's a reason to shoot up a military base.
Not sure I'm buying this.
-Dave
Our elected representatives have failed us.
Obama has promised to...
November 5, 2009 - 19:11 ET by PrairieSky"get to the bottom" of this terrible situation...
Doesn't that make everybody feel better???
"The problem is not that people are taxed too little...the problem is that government spends too much." ~President Ronald Reagan
Fox announced the press
November 5, 2009 - 19:14 ET by Jack BauerFox announced the press conference less than two hours after the incident began, while it was still on-going, and while NO ONE really knew the full facts.
INCREDIBLE. Simply incredible.
What I want to know then..
November 5, 2009 - 19:19 ET by Sergeant ROCK.. is 'Did the Military Police act stupidly'?
"I ask, Sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people. To disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them."
George Mason
Jack... It was insane as
November 5, 2009 - 19:21 ET by bigtimerJack...
It was insane as far as I was concerned as well.
'Doubling down on stupid is not a particularly good idea'~Breitbart
Jack
November 5, 2009 - 19:59 ET by MrShyI'm sure it's reassuring for you to know you're not living where there are too many infiltrated Muslims.
Yes, not a good time to kid.
But really, we also need to stay vigilant as the way they plan these things, they'll pull a 1-2 punch and this might distract us from a bigger one planned for, say, tomorrow.
Sorry, it's just that this whole thing enrages me. They win as far as that goes.
Dave~
November 5, 2009 - 19:21 ET by Georgia GirlBut on another train of thought, you sure know that poor performance evaluation was as frickin' accurate as you can get. Unbelievable.
This really sickens me. Here was somebody entrusted to protect the emotional/mental state of those sacrificing their lives for our country. Well, I'm sure more will come out...
Yep, just hearing some of that right now on FOXNEWS, with a retired Colonel Terry Lee talking to Shep. This Colonel Lee interacted with Hasan and is now relating that Hasan openly said (among many other things): "Maybe the Muslims should rise up against the aggressor," etc. etc. It sounds very much like the hateful type of things we've heard from those who consider America "the enemy."
Whatever the case, it will all come out. Regardless of the reasons, it just sickens me.
"Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than outright exposure. The fearful are caught as often as the bold."~Helen Keller
GG... Had to leave for a
November 5, 2009 - 19:23 ET by bigtimerGG...
Had to leave for a bit, glad for the fill in regarding some of the remarks you mentioned that the shrink had being saying previously.
'Doubling down on stupid is not a particularly good idea'~Breitbart
Georgia...Exactly...Why would...
November 5, 2009 - 19:24 ET by PrairieSkythe Army send a shrink, who had received a poor performance eval himself, to a war zone to look after the mental health of our soldiers there? Is this nuts or what???
This is really screwy, folks.
"The problem is not that people are taxed too little...the problem is that government spends too much." ~President Ronald Reagan
I've often heard that
November 5, 2009 - 19:53 ET by Dan DiegoI've often heard that "Mental Health" professionals have a higher rate of mental problems (and suicide?) then the general population. Who monitors the monitors?
GG, I missed that report
November 5, 2009 - 20:01 ET by R D Helm...did Col Lee report this?
If he did, and nothing was done, somebody needs to be called out for it.
This is happening far to often.
-Dave
Our elected representatives have failed us.
Dave~
November 5, 2009 - 21:36 ET by Georgia GirlColonel Lee was on "Hannity" again for a bit, and he indicated a report was filed -- but that nothing was done. Unbelievable.
They also reported that Hasan was wounded and alive -- a pretty big shocker, from earlier reports.
"Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than outright exposure. The fearful are caught as often as the bold."~Helen Keller
GG
November 5, 2009 - 21:37 ET by MrShyIf he's still alive, then get out the waterboards.
How does something like
November 5, 2009 - 19:17 ET by R D HelmHow does something like this happen on a U.S. military base?
If Hasan had pulled this crap in my subdivision, he would have been DRT before he managed to get off a third shot.
-Dave
Our elected representatives have failed us.
DRT
November 5, 2009 - 19:24 ET by Sergeant ROCKNo kidding. But weirdly enough, you are not allowed to carry around weapons on military posts - as far as I know.
"I ask, Sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people. To disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them."
George Mason
Yep...I heard somewhere
November 5, 2009 - 19:28 ET by bigtimerYep...I heard somewhere earlier they were not armed where this took place...don't know that to be a fact, just passing on what I heard as well.
Obviously, if they had been 12 wouldn't be dead and others wounded.
'Doubling down on stupid is not a particularly good idea'~Breitbart
Can you all say "carefully
November 5, 2009 - 19:33 ET by MrShyCan you all say "carefully planned, infiltrated Islamic Terrorism"?
I sure can.
MrS... Sure I can...they
November 5, 2009 - 19:39 ET by bigtimerMrS...
Sure I can...they can spin this one too all they want, they can move on and forget about it like they always do in the msm....all of us out here weren't born yesterday and can see things for what they are, others can banter about this, be PC, say show the proof etc etc...at the cost and lives of plenty of others.
9-11 wasn't enough of a wake-up call for this spoiled nation as a whole...especially when it comes to the msm.
'Doubling down on stupid is not a particularly good idea'~Breitbart
Mr. Shy, bt- It may be
November 5, 2009 - 21:27 ET by donaldborschjrMr. Shy, bt-
It may be just me, but why would the FBI going down to investigate this? Here's my theory which I think you boh might agree with:
The FBI had tabs on this guy due to some Internet postings he had made. Maybe he was also being looked at because of his family name. So the shooting occurs, and the soldiers at Ft. Hood deal with it quickly and decisively. The news outlets would show-up, of course, and the story would come out and all of us would be informed and saddened, horrified, and shocked.
However, word is that the FBI is on their way to Hood. Why? I mean, this is a Federal issue, to be sure, but I cannot help think that the FBI is coming to Hood to finish something up with Hasan, not simply because there was a shooting.
Just a theory.
Either way, Hasan is dead, questions are being answered and now those who have been directly affected need to be attended to.
Citizen Commentators Unite!
http://www.political...
http://www.donaldbor...
Re FBI
November 5, 2009 - 21:37 ET by slickwillie2001The FBI would be needed to investigate the shooter's background, get a search warrant for what I assume is an off-base home somewhere, telephone records, internet, and trickle-down checks of his contacts, where he got the guns, etc.
Question, would a huge base like Hood have an onsite FBI presence? The FBI is likely involved in background checks of recruits, but I don't know if that would warrant an onsite office.
I don't see any hint that the shooter would be subject to the civilian system of justice. It should be military all the way, and hopefully a firing squad. Agreed?
Unarmed
November 5, 2009 - 19:37 ET by Sergeant ROCKThere was no need for them to be armed in a situation like this. It's a boring must-do assortment of paperwork, shots, examinations, etc., etc. in order for you to deploy. It had not crossed my mind that I may be shot during that process.
"I ask, Sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people. To disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them."
George Mason
Shortly after this story broke
November 5, 2009 - 20:13 ET by general companyI heard either someone on Fox or XM, saying it was not an act of terrorism? How the heck would they know? When 40 folks get shot, I sure call it terrorism.
My Gov. thinks I am dangerous, so be careful
"Television is a freak show" Bernie Goldberg
Act of terrorism?
November 5, 2009 - 21:28 ET by Sergeant ROCKI heard on the radio as I left work today that the FBI declared it wasn't an act of terrorism almost from the gitgo. I want to know who this idiot is? Is he familiar with the term INVESTIGATION?
"I ask, Sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people. To disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them."
George Mason
Sarge, as you know, we're curently at war with Islamic goons
November 5, 2009 - 19:32 ET by R D Helm...and our military bases are essentially unguarded, evan though many of those same goons have infiltrated our military.
How politically correct. :-(
-Dave
Our elected representatives have failed us.
Infiltrated by goons
November 5, 2009 - 19:41 ET by Sergeant ROCKI was of the mind that the goons involved were foreign 'sleepers', not 'converts'. Then it occurred to me that a 'convert' fragged those soldiers in Kuwait - remember that?
Maybe, there's no room for Islam in the U.S. military?
"I ask, Sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people. To disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them."
George Mason
Sarge, Hasan's cousin says he was no "convert"
November 5, 2009 - 19:46 ET by R D Helm...but that he has been a Muslim all his life.
That makes it even worse, if you ask me.
-Dave
Our elected representatives have failed us.
No convert?
November 5, 2009 - 19:52 ET by Sergeant ROCKSo, is he foreign?
"I ask, Sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people. To disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them."
George Mason
Sarge
November 5, 2009 - 19:53 ET by MrShyYeah, a full-on Muslim from Virginia? I mean, sure, in a family that migrated here.... but interesting.
Sergeant...My...
November 5, 2009 - 19:34 ET by PrairieSkyhusband is an Air Force vet, and he told me that military members do not carry around their weapons on base, unless they are issued to them for something related to their duty. In most circumstances, the service revolvers and other weapons are kept locked in a secure location, until they are issued for duty, which was rare. The only members that routinely do carry weapons with live rounds were/are the military police.
"The problem is not that people are taxed too little...the problem is that government spends too much." ~President Ronald Reagan
You are correct
November 5, 2009 - 19:45 ET by Sergeant ROCKIf it's not part of your duty, I.E. Military Police, etc., you'll only see it at the range when you 'qualify' with that weapon.
"I ask, Sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people. To disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them."
George Mason
Just like Federal buildings
November 5, 2009 - 19:49 ET by TheHistorianJust like the Federal buildings where guns are banned. The result is that the guns that are smuggled in are the ones that control the building. Another demonstration that liberalism achieves the opposite of its stated intent.
"What experience and history teach is
this - that people and governments never have learned anything from history,
or acted on principles deduced from it."
G. W. F. Hegel
TheHistorian
November 5, 2009 - 19:52 ET by MrShy"Another demonstration that liberalism achieves the opposite of its stated intent."
Tell us something we don't already know. :p
My father was a Marine MP during Korea
November 5, 2009 - 19:58 ET by R D HelmWhen he wasn't stationed aboard ship, part of his job was to escort prisoners to Ft. Leavenworth, among other things.
He told me that, as there was a war on, you couldn't so much as sneeze on a military base without hitting an armed soldier, MP or otherwise.
This smacks as a major security breakdown, and reminds me of the Marines that were killed in Lebanon because Jimmy Earl ordered them to carry unloaded weapons.
-Dave
Our elected representatives have failed us.
I've heard that deploying
November 5, 2009 - 20:36 ET by Dan DiegoI've heard that deploying forces may be issued weapons stateside but they don't issue ammo until they're in theater.
Sarge...you are correct.
November 5, 2009 - 19:55 ET by celatorSarge...you are correct. Only MP's are allowed to carry a weapon on a military base. A medical officer is the last person on base who would carry a weapon. Weapons transport is strictly under lock and key.
As I'm sure you know (but for others who may not be aware), all weapons are locked up, secured, guarded, monitored, counted every day. If one is missing, there is a major alert sent out and finding that weapon is the No 1 priority. If you want to clean your weapon, assuming you have one assigned to you, you have to sign for it, and cannot leave the location or building with your weapon. You clean it right there and then. If you are going to the range, you sign out, etc etc etc.
I'm anxious to learn exactly what type pistol was used by the killer. Was it one used by the military or did he have a weapon not normally found on base? And how did he get to carry two of them? How did he get to wander around the base carrying two weapons? Was he triggered by a code word? Why now?
It's Monday morning quarterbacking, but here are questions which immediately arise. If he had poor reviews, why was he still in the Army? What did the reviews say. Was there something in them about instability, anger, radicalism? If he was already making anti-US statements about our involvement, why was he not watched or discharged? If he was a Muslim convert, why was he not watched more carefully for radical activity?
Hopefully, we will get our act together and go deep into this case and do a search and find to see who else fits this guy's profile. Yes, profiling!
No citizen's right to life, liberty, pursuit of happiness, or property is safe as long as Obama is President of the United States.
No profiling in the military
November 5, 2009 - 20:01 ET by Sergeant ROCKSo what if a few soldiers get killed here or there? It's a small price to pay to show the world how much we care about Muslims. Well, that's liberals would have you believe anyway.
"I ask, Sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people. To disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them."
George Mason
Sarge.. sadly, I think that
November 5, 2009 - 20:10 ET by celatorSarge.. sadly, I think that some would believe that. My guess that will change now, and these men and women will be protected to a far greater degree than they were today. It's beyond tragic this happened today, and should been avoided with proper precautions.
No citizen's right to life, liberty, pursuit of happiness, or property is safe as long as Obama is President of the United States.
Proper precautions
November 5, 2009 - 20:18 ET by Sergeant ROCK#1 - Is having Muslims in the military worth the risk?
"I ask, Sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people. To disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them."
George Mason
I think that question will
November 5, 2009 - 20:25 ET by celatorI think that question will be on the table. I'm getting dizzy trying to wrap my mind around the concept of a Muslim psychiatrist, what psychiatric therapeutic model that person would use, how effective that might be working with American military clients. Doesn't even begin to make sense.
No citizen's right to life, liberty, pursuit of happiness, or property is safe as long as Obama is President of the United States.
Well considering how PC the
November 5, 2009 - 20:45 ET by Dan DiegoWell considering how PC the pols have made are military and the mountains of documentation required to justify discharge of an unsuitable individual (especially a muslim, imagine the ACLU lawsuit), it's easy to see how this guy could do what he did.
Yes, it's true. That PCness
November 5, 2009 - 20:50 ET by celatorYes, it's true. That PCness has got to be corrected, for sure.
No citizen's right to life, liberty, pursuit of happiness, or property is safe as long as Obama is President of the United States.
Just heard his cousin on FOX
November 5, 2009 - 21:13 ET by Dan DiegoJust heard his cousin on FOX say he was harassed for having a muslim name. I guess more training is required for are troops so another muslim does not become a "victim".
cel... Hopefully, we will
November 5, 2009 - 20:02 ET by bigtimercel...
Hopefully, we will get our act together and go deep into this case and
do a search and find to see who else fits this guy's profile. Yes,
profiling!
...and how many more like him are embedded in our military.
'Doubling down on stupid is not a particularly good idea'~Breitbart
BT...I would be afraid to
November 5, 2009 - 20:11 ET by celatorBT...I would be afraid to answer that question, but they are there, I fear. Time to clean house.
No citizen's right to life, liberty, pursuit of happiness, or property is safe as long as Obama is President of the United States.
That is what makes a
November 5, 2009 - 20:57 ET by ricklailYou are correct. That is what makes a military base a good target. The only time I carried my weapon on post was when we were training or doing guard duty.
I walk my post a mile a minute
Toting my weapon with nothing in it.
If I should see fire I ring the bell.
Drop my weapon and run like hell.
Semper suprene nitens
OBAMACARE: If it ain't good enough for my Congressman then it ain't good enough for me.
Re carrying
November 5, 2009 - 21:29 ET by slickwillie2001So he must have concealed these weapons, two of them, with at least one extra magazine each, and they were probably large-frame large-caliber military-style automatics. Can a member of the military go through the gates without being searched, or could he have drawn the weapons from inside the base for some plausible reason?
Press conference source just said "no evidence the weapons were military".
Random vehicle inspections
November 5, 2009 - 21:39 ET by Dan DiegoRandom vehicle inspections are common unless there is a specific threat.
BTW: My wife just informed me that a local base has beefed up it's security, in addition to the usual sentries there's "a guard (active military) with a BIG rifle".
Couldn't be military issue
November 5, 2009 - 21:41 ET by Sergeant ROCKAs explained elsewhere, there has to be a legitimate reason to draw a weapon. Only those in law enforcement would be carrying on their person an issued weapon. If you're at the range, you'd draw and return that weapon at the range.
Ask anyone that is or was in the military what happens when a weapon is unaccounted for?
"I ask, Sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people. To disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them."
George Mason
What the hell was this Hasan character doing in the U.S. Army?
November 5, 2009 - 20:16 ET by R D HelmThe more I am hearing, the more it sounds like this guy was yet another Islamic radical that has managed to infiltrate our military or convert once he got in, and has now killed other American soldiers.
How many more time are these camel-washers in our military going to blow up or shoot our soldiers before the idiot politicians and desk-driving military brass in Washington finally figure out that allowing them in our military may just not be a good idea?
What will it take? Sabotaging a submarine? Blowing up a carrier and sending it to the bottom? What?
Why don't we just go ahead and process those clowns at GITMO into the U.S. military.
Might as well.
-Dave
Our elected representatives have failed us.
Flashback
November 5, 2009 - 19:41 ET by acumenFlashback - President Barack Redacted Obama's views on Islam.
acumen... Very glad you
November 5, 2009 - 20:08 ET by bigtimeracumen...
Very glad you put this here.
'Doubling down on stupid is not a particularly good idea'~Breitbart
→ b-b-b-but Bigtimer.
November 5, 2009 - 20:14 ET by Cool ArrowIslam is a religion of peace.
LYDSEXICS UNTIE!
Coworker talks about Hassan's "outlandish" comments
November 5, 2009 - 20:23 ET by acumenWhat's scary is our CIC preaches that garbage Cool.
Here is a what a co-worker of Hassan had to say on FOX.
→ Tru dat
November 5, 2009 - 20:30 ET by Cool ArrowAnd the CIC before him used that tired old "hijacked a religion of peace" till I was sick of it.
Just not politically correct to call it what it is, and now, we'll see more of the same gibberish.
LYDSEXICS UNTIE!
Got that right Cool
November 5, 2009 - 20:46 ET by acumenYeah, I got right sick of Dubya using that phrase myself.
Of course Prez Change had to take it to a whole nother level.
CA must have forgotten to
November 5, 2009 - 20:42 ET by Radical1979CA must have forgotten to watch the video to very very end.
BTW, has Obama ever refered to the Bible as the Holy Bible? He sure called the Koran the "Holy Koran" a lot.
It's Cool
November 5, 2009 - 20:50 ET by acumenCool was being sarcastic.
Yeah, and with the perfect enunciation of koran. I guess he meant holy as in the book teaches others to put holes in those they disagree with.
I know, I was being
November 5, 2009 - 20:56 ET by Radical1979I know, I was being sarcastic back. I wish there was a sarc button like there is a bold or italic button.
The video really bugged me because the way Obama spoke you'd think the rest of the world had been sitting around with their thumbs, well you know where, until the wonderful Islamic people came to show them the light. And where the hell is the education for women?!
Sorry, coupled with the shooting I'm ready to throw them all out of the country. I'm not a pc person.
→ Rad
November 5, 2009 - 21:28 ET by Cool ArrowNo offense taken.
I'm plenty pissed about this day myself.
It doesn't help that we've got Neville Chamberlain at the helm, either.
This is going to spark some major action on the part of Neville Hussein Obama. Why, I can see him charging back over to the Middle East and giving them another thorough apology.
LYDSEXICS UNTIE!
CA complete with a bow to
November 5, 2009 - 22:44 ET by Radical1979CA complete with a bow to the king over in Saudi Arabia.
BT
November 5, 2009 - 20:26 ET by acumenThe Islamist Apologist in Chief video came to mind immediately when I heard about this unfolding at Fort Hood - before it was even reported an Islamist was responsible.
I can't believe it...Hasan is still...
November 5, 2009 - 21:22 ET by PrairieSkyalive...That's too bad...The military will execute the SOB, though...
"The problem is not that people are taxed too little...the problem is that government spends too much." ~President Ronald Reagan
Prairie~
November 5, 2009 - 21:43 ET by Georgia GirlI saw that just a bit ago as well. What a shocker.
My first thought was how incredibly unjust it was that he was in "stable" condition, while his other victims had lost their lives -- or suffering injuries and totally traumatized from this horror. But then I started thinking that maybe it's better this way...he will have to face what he did, and the military will make sure justice is served.
"Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than outright exposure. The fearful are caught as often as the bold."~Helen Keller
Georgia...I don't know...I'd just as soon...
November 5, 2009 - 21:54 ET by PrairieSkythis POS were already dead...
But, as we have both said, the military will get this guy...He'll be executed for this.
Can't happen soon enough for me.
"The problem is not that people are taxed too little...the problem is that government spends too much." ~President Ronald Reagan
Executed???
November 5, 2009 - 22:02 ET by Sergeant ROCKMost likely, he'll be shipped to Club Gitmo for safe keeping. No, no, no - not to be so-called tortured.
"I ask, Sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people. To disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them."
George Mason
Prairie~
November 5, 2009 - 22:04 ET by Georgia GirlI understand where you are coming from, believe me. I just am so sick of these cowards killing and (in a way) taking the easy way out. He had to have a pretty good idea what would happen to him in this situation, but apparently he was fine with that or he wouldn't have gone through with this. Maybe it's pointless with these types, but I do think them having to step-by-step deal with what they have done and all the ramification of that (in the unbearable lightness of being) may be a bigger penalty -- before they are judged and the ultimate punishment is meted. Being that the military will handle this, that makes me feel a whole lot better that real justice will be served.
"Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than outright exposure. The fearful are caught as often as the bold."~Helen Keller
Georgia...I'm concerned that with Hasan...
November 5, 2009 - 22:20 ET by PrairieSkystill alive, and from what we have already heard about his (allegedly) being harrassed for his Middle-Eastern name (boo hoo), he will attempt to use sympathy and his religion/race in his defense and this will turn into a mess...Muslim groups may support him from a racial/religious standpoint, and they will try to turn him into a sympathetic character who just snapped because of how "unfairly" he was treated by the big bad US Army.
I want to avoid all this...It doesn't do anyone any good, certainly not the military or the survivors and the families of those he shot. Under the USMJ, murder is punishable by death, and that's what I believe will happen to this sick scum, and as I said, it can't happen soon enough for me.
"The problem is not that people are taxed too little...the problem is that government spends too much." ~President Ronald Reagan
UCMJ action
November 5, 2009 - 22:22 ET by Sergeant ROCKI just don't see the oBama administration allowing that to happen.
"I ask, Sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people. To disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them."
George Mason
Under the UCMJ, this is under the perview...
November 5, 2009 - 22:27 ET by PrairieSkyand control of military justice and the Army. I don't see that Obama can interfere in it.
"The problem is not that people are taxed too little...the problem is that government spends too much." ~President Ronald Reagan
~Never stopped him before
November 5, 2009 - 22:35 ET by choselife3xIn order to be pro-choice, one must first be born. Ah, the irony.
Politically, he would be a fool to try to interfere in this...
November 5, 2009 - 22:46 ET by PrairieSkyHe has no grounds, first of all...This is cut and dried...An American soldier, for whatever reason, shot up and killed and bunch of his fellow soldiers on a US Army post. That is the bottom line...Hasan's race and religion are irrelevant from the standpoint of how military justice will treat him. To the Army, and under the UCMJ, he is an American soldier that murdered. Period. Obama has no grounds to interfere.
"The problem is not that people are taxed too little...the problem is that government spends too much." ~President Ronald Reagan
~Fool to try
November 5, 2009 - 23:03 ET by choselife3xThat never stopped him before either..
I hope he has some people around him that are smart and persuasive enough to keep him out of it. Obama would love to meddle out of sheer arrogance, to give us all a "teachable moment".
In order to be pro-choice, one must first be born. Ah, the irony.
prairiesky: Obama is,
November 5, 2009 - 22:39 ET by donaldborschjrprairiesky: Obama is, (Man I can't believe I'm typing this), the Commander-in-Chief of all our military.
If he wants to alter or stop any actions according to the UCMJ, he can.
Citizen Commentators Unite!
http://www.political...
http://www.donaldbor...
donald...As CIC, does he have the power to interfere?
November 5, 2009 - 22:56 ET by PrairieSkyYes. Does he have grounds? No. Politically, he would be insane to touch this with a ten foot pole.
As I said in another post above, he has no grounds. This is a cut and dried military justice matter. Hasan is an American soldier who killed and shot a bunch of other American soldiers on an American Army base. The why's and wherefore's don't matter...neither does Hasan's race or religion. He's a US Army soldier who murdered other US Army soldiers. I don't see how Obama has any justifiable reason to inject himself in any way, CIC or not, and he would be a fool to try.
"The problem is not that people are taxed too little...the problem is that government spends too much." ~President Ronald Reagan
Prairie Sky-
November 5, 2009 - 23:06 ET by donaldborschjrI agree with you 100%.
But...outside the box now...Obama could do whatever he wishes and get away with it due to his station as CiC in anything military-related.
He would get a lot of flak, of course. Undoubtedly. And folks would be furious, to be sure.
But do you think he cares one iota about what we really think? This is all about him, remember. His station as CiC is just one more thing he will abuse and bastardize.
Citizen Commentators Unite!
http://www.political...
http://www.donaldbor...
donald...Obama cares about staying president...
November 5, 2009 - 23:17 ET by PrairieSky2012 isn't that far off...Involving himself in this would be political suicide...I can't see him taking the chance of alienating so many Americans, in and out of the military, by interfering just so he can be seen positively by muslims, American or not. I just don't see it.
"The problem is not that people are taxed too little...the problem is that government spends too much." ~President Ronald Reagan
Donald, you are correct.
November 5, 2009 - 22:57 ET by celatorDonald, you are correct. Obama can stop it, or pardon this killer. He'd be tarred and feathered for it, but he can do it.
"Appeal Process and Presidential Pardons
"In some cases, appeals can reverse some aspects of a court-martial requiring a military judge to review the case. After a military member has requested clemency and his or her case reviewed through the appeal process, the next step in gaining relief from the conviction is through a Presidential pardon."
and
"The Uniform Code of Military Justice (UCMJ) is federal law, enacted by Congress in Chapter 47, of 10 USC, Subtitle A, Part II. Article 36 allows the President to prescribe rules and procedures to implement the provisions of the UCMJ."
http://www.puckettfa...
No citizen's right to life, liberty, pursuit of happiness, or property is safe as long as Obama is President of the United States.
And his pardon or
November 5, 2009 - 23:08 ET by Dan DiegoAnd his pardon or commutation could be done just before he leaves office in 2012. His final Official insult to America, probably with a smirk on his face as he signed it.
Yea, this is going to be
November 5, 2009 - 23:11 ET by celatorYea, this is going to be long haul IMHO, and it will drag out to 2012, easily. Endless appeals.
No citizen's right to life, liberty, pursuit of happiness, or property is safe as long as Obama is President of the United States.
Re Pardon
November 6, 2009 - 00:33 ET by slickwillie2001After we throw this bum out of office in 2012, I fear the flood of pardons that he will issue just to stick a finger in America's eye, the rage of the rejected narcissist. Mumia and Ayer's friends in the Weather Underground for starters. He could clear the federal prisons and it would be quite legal.
sw... So right you are,
November 6, 2009 - 00:46 ET by bigtimersw...
So right you are, plus he has Holder, Gregg, along with others, let alone himself at the wheel...what Clintoon did will be child's play.
...and the msm will nod with approval, or put on some kind of a brief show that they do question some of the pardons...
He isn't going to give a rats rear one way or the other, he will do as he wants, why it will be historic... once again.
Doubling down on stupid is not a particularly good idea'~Breitbart
celator...As we both have said, Obama does have...
November 5, 2009 - 23:11 ET by PrairieSkythe power to interfere, but why would he? Why would he risk himself politically for something that is so obviously a clear cut case of premeditated mass murder? What would be the upside for him? Ingratiating himself with muslims, American and otherwise? It would be political suicide for him. I can't believe that even Obama would be that stupid.
"The problem is not that people are taxed too little...the problem is that government spends too much." ~President Ronald Reagan
Yes, it would be political
November 5, 2009 - 23:14 ET by celatorYes, it would be political suicide for him, for sure. Obama is such a bizarre politician that I suspect the thought will cross his mind. But you're right, if he did, his career as a political figure would be over.
No citizen's right to life, liberty, pursuit of happiness, or property is safe as long as Obama is President of the United States.
Political Suicide?
November 5, 2009 - 23:19 ET by Sergeant ROCKMaybe oBama is seeking martyrdom? He's already thrown himself upon the 'healthcare' grenade which will most likely doom a second term. What's stopping him from committing 'political suicide' on this issue as well?
"I ask, Sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people. To disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them."
George Mason
Sarge
November 5, 2009 - 23:24 ET by MightyMouthHe might want to make it through his first term... period!
"The bureaucracy is growing to meet the needs of the growing bureaucracy"
Impeach oBama?
November 5, 2009 - 23:27 ET by Sergeant ROCKOn what grounds?
"I ask, Sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people. To disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them."
George Mason
In the US,
November 5, 2009 - 23:24 ET by Dan Diegonot in the UN, he'd be a hero and a lock for Sec Gen.
celator...Yep...Political suicide...
November 5, 2009 - 23:24 ET by PrairieSkyit would be...
(It would almost be worth it if he did interfere...Bye, bye, Obama...)
"The problem is not that people are taxed too little...the problem is that government spends too much." ~President Ronald Reagan
Sky... Ditto! 'Doubling
November 5, 2009 - 23:31 ET by bigtimerSky...
Ditto!
'Doubling down on stupid is not a particularly good idea'~Breitbart
Prairie~
November 5, 2009 - 22:49 ET by Georgia GirlThere's no doubt about it -- it could be that kind of mess. Maybe I am feeling too hopeful these days, but I am feeling like most Americans have just completely had it with the PC crap that gets to the point of utter ridiculousness. I think we can all recognize the crap as crap, so it loses its power -- just like Obama is losing his grip on America.
I feel so sorry for the families. I'm so angry and sad about this. I can't wait for the military to serve him justice.
On a bright note, I heard that the woman who shot Hasan is in stable condition as well. She's a real hero.
"Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than outright exposure. The fearful are caught as often as the bold."~Helen Keller
Georgia...Me too...
November 5, 2009 - 23:03 ET by PrairieSkyThis whole thing makes me so sad...for the families, for the Army, for the military, for this country. The concept of a US military member doing something like this to his fellow soldiers, let alone fellow Americans, just depresses me no end. It makes me worry even more about where this country is headed. I have spent a good part of my life as a military kid and wife, and to see this happen to some of what I consider "the military family" is horrendous.
As you said, the one bright note is that the woman who shot Hasan did survive, and will hopefully be okay. Thank heavens for that. A hero she definitely is.
"The problem is not that people are taxed too little...the problem is that government spends too much." ~President Ronald Reagan
Execute?
November 5, 2009 - 22:08 ET by MightyMouthNo way!! This guys is a hero in the Muslim world and since Obama (the CIC) bows down to the Muslim world, there is no way he will allow someone to be executed who believes basically the same way he does!
You watch it will be life in prision GURANTEED!
"The bureaucracy is growing to meet the needs of the growing bureaucracy"
MM~
November 5, 2009 - 22:20 ET by Georgia GirlI don't believe Obama has any say-so at all in this and none of the PC stuff will cut it in this situation. The military will get to call the shots (military court) -- and that would be a very good thing.
"Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than outright exposure. The fearful are caught as often as the bold."~Helen Keller
GG
November 5, 2009 - 22:25 ET by MrShyGood point, and let's hope it really stays in the military courts, which you would think it would. Sarge or Teh Vet? Expertise on this?
Not sure GG
November 5, 2009 - 22:35 ET by MightyMouthSuspect was brought down by a civilian cop! You watch, the justice department will take over jurisdiction of this one pronto!
"The bureaucracy is growing to meet the needs of the growing bureaucracy"
MM...Nope...Obama has no say here...
November 5, 2009 - 22:23 ET by PrairieSkyThis isn't up to him...This falls under the UCMJ...the Uniform Code of Military Justice. Obama can't do anything about this. This is under the perview of the US Army and the UCMJ. Not him. Thank God.
"The problem is not that people are taxed too little...the problem is that government spends too much." ~President Ronald Reagan
Tsk.. Tsk.. PrairieSky
November 5, 2009 - 22:27 ET by Sergeant ROCKYou underestimate oBama's willingness to appease the Muslim world.
"I ask, Sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people. To disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them."
George Mason
Yep...along with CAIR,
November 5, 2009 - 22:33 ET by bigtimerYep...along with CAIR, leftist in congress as long as they are in power, plus the Justice Dept. doing the bidding of OTeam as well as his own...gladly.
...they will do everything they can to get this out of military hands.
What I am hoping is that by the time this filthy murdering jerk goes to trial this administration is diminished with their power.
'Doubling down on stupid is not a particularly good idea'~Breitbart
You watch PS
November 5, 2009 - 22:41 ET by MightyMouthEven if the Military gives the guy death...Obama can change that to life with the stroke of the pen!
"The bureaucracy is growing to meet the needs of the growing bureaucracy"
Mighty... Life in prison,
November 5, 2009 - 22:29 ET by bigtimerMighty...
Life in prison, and them volunteer to be a shrink for the other inmates and recruit more like him...prison, one the best sponsor/recruiting tool for the radical islamists. ..he'll fit in nicely.
'Doubling down on stupid is not a particularly good idea'~Breitbart
I thought prison inmates
November 5, 2009 - 22:32 ET by donaldborschjrI thought prison inmates only converted to Nation of Islam.
Well, I guess I learn something new everyday!
Citizen Commentators Unite!
http://www.political...
http://www.donaldbor...
Nation of Islam? ...Islam?
November 5, 2009 - 22:38 ET by MightyMouthWhat't the diff? the're all anti-semite!
"The bureaucracy is growing to meet the needs of the growing bureaucracy"
MM, Lots of differences,
November 5, 2009 - 22:42 ET by donaldborschjrMM,
Lots of differences, but ultimately, yes, they are both anti-semitic. Agreed.
The NoI has a lot of success brainwashing and recruiting in our prison system. I don't so much see al-qaida recruiting in them.
Citizen Commentators Unite!
http://www.political...
http://www.donaldbor...
Nah, mental institution
November 5, 2009 - 22:39 ET by RESTLESS 1After all, this is just a troubled man. </sarc>
"If the man, with the power, can't keep it under control...some heads are gonna roll." -Judas Priest
Thought the same thing.
November 5, 2009 - 22:43 ET by MightyMouthOne things for sure... this is gonna be one hellova circus!
"The bureaucracy is growing to meet the needs of the growing bureaucracy"
Execution/Life term?
November 5, 2009 - 22:49 ET by matthewdeanMM:
Consider:
What if this character was born into the Islamic faith. What if he is a mole. What if this nasty operation today has been on calendar for some time. What if this murderer knows of other plots/plans coming down the pipe.
Per a news report, I know FBI agents were enroute Ft. Hood.
Are the Feds going to take this case out of the reach of military justice?
Are they going to make this a civil issue? Are the agents going to read this assjack his Miranda rights?
Can't use a hypodermic needle to inject sodium pentothal, because the unbearable pain associated with a needle prick would no doubt be considered torture by the posprez and his pos Attorney General.
So the plan is to what, engage the suspect in negotiations, with no pre-conditions?
Maybe, his interviewers (not interrogators-too harsh a word), if they find themselves stymied, and not a little frustrated, will get special dispensation from the LOTUS/TOTUS to use curse words like hell and damn.
If there is any possible way to screw this up, and see to it that further pain and suffering is inflicted on the relatives of those we lost today, the a**wipe bunch of politicians running this administration will accomplish it without missing a step.
I don't know of anyone in or near the posprezs' immediate circle who did military time.
Damn them all if they do not do the right thing on this.
MD
"There is no distinctly American criminal class - except Congress."
Mark Twain (1835-1910)
"Damn them all if they do not do the right thing on this."
November 5, 2009 - 22:55 ET by MightyMouthNot sure of the conspiracy stuff...but I do agree with that statement!
"The bureaucracy is growing to meet the needs of the growing bureaucracy"
Conspiracy---not so much
November 5, 2009 - 23:10 ET by matthewdeanMM:
Could'nt really fit /sarc/ in there comfortably.
Once I heard the shooter was still alive, I was aiming more at what I figure will be total ineptness on the Feds part if they take this away from the military.
A sad day, to be sure.
MD
"There is no distinctly American criminal class - except Congress."
Mark Twain (1835-1910)