For general discussion and debate. Possible talking point: Is Obama about to ram healthcare through Congress via reconciliation?
President Barack Obama this week has been laying the foundation for Senate Democrats to use a controversial budget maneuver to pass healthcare reform. By offering Republicans olive branches during his address to Congress on Wednesday, Obama has set up a win-win situation. If GOP lawmakers embrace compromise, a healthcare bill would pass Congress easily. But the more likely scenario is that Republicans will continue to oppose Obama’s plan, and the president later this fall will be able to note he tried to strike a deal with the GOP but could not. That will set up a Democratic argument that Senate leaders have been forced to use a partisan budget tool known as reconciliation to pass a health bill through the Senate by a simple majority, instead of 60 votes. Under the budget plan they passed earlier this year, Democrats could invoke the reconciliation process on Oct. 15.
Is this where healthcare reform is heading, and will enough Democrats go along with this to make it successful?
Editor at Large
Comments Policy
Yikes Noel
September 13, 2009 - 08:38 ET by shawn228Looks like the the health care bill you guys buried in a mock funeral still has a little bit of life left.
"I swear sometimes the self-appointed moral police are as obnoxious and demanding of big government interference as "environmentalist" gun control advocates, labor unions and trial lawyers"~fitzfong
The Scuttlebutt Is...
September 13, 2009 - 08:42 ET by BondPlainBondHe's only got 53 Democrats that will go with him. Not enough.
Will there be backroom deal$, and arm twi$ting? You betcha!
I hope they do. Let the
September 13, 2009 - 08:57 ET by motherbeltI hope they do. Let the Democrats own this travesty lock, stock and barrel!
All the Republicans have to do is tie up and gag McCain and a couple of other reachers-across-the-aisle.
The only problem is that the real results of this won't be seen for years, so the Democrats' punishment could be far off.
OTOH, maybe Republicans should be challenging Democrats with this: if this is so crucial to the survival of our country and our economy, how on earth can we wait four years for it to even begin!!
Owooh...
September 13, 2009 - 14:07 ET by DEVILDOCMOMI like that. Our local congresswoman has stated, before she had some town hall meetings, that she did not care what was said there or by people phoning her office. She is voting for the bill, even if it costs her her seat...which I will work to see it does cost her.
This bill truly scares me.
more like threaten
September 13, 2009 - 08:49 ET by kangarooolive branch = bribes, threats, ah nice family you have etc
Obama is still in the 'I am
September 13, 2009 - 08:50 ET by DontFeedTheTrollsObama is still in the 'I am always correct.' mode. He can never (in his mind) make a mistake and all criticism is shadow racism. He will force this bill on us. He feels it is what is needed. The voters and citizens and the Constitution mean nothing to him. He fails to understand the most basic concepts, he doesn't think he works for the people, he thinks the people are his minions and must do his bidding. Witness him ignoring the historic TEA party protest. Imagine hiring an assistant who then comes in and says 'This is how things will be from now on'. That's Obama.
Write your Congress and Senate and tell them what YOU think!
Keep the ILLEGALS out, join NumbersUSA to send free faxes to your reps.
You know... if the
September 13, 2009 - 08:52 ET by MidAmericaYou know... if the democrats manage to rahm this through in spite of what the majority of the country wants and the government takes over healthcare we should all make doctor appointments and flood the system in a 'denial of service' sort of way to collapse the new system and force the government to change it back.
MA I dont think it will
September 13, 2009 - 11:25 ET by Dan The Man 2MA I dont think it will change back and it will only gum up teh system. Look at cutbacks in services like postal service, parks and such. Fewer people to do tehwork and fewer places. The current government aint gonna back down.
The primary purpose of
September 13, 2009 - 11:49 ET by MidAmericaThe primary purpose of government run healthcare and along with all the other intrusions in to the private sector that obama has made and wants to make is about control. The democrats goal is to make government our 'partner' in all of our daily decisions. So then when elections come up all the candidates on both sides will have to compete on which candidate can more effectively provide government advise and services. There will no longer be a viable conservative small government option because the role of government will be entrenched into the fabric of all that we do. So... my suggestion we clog up the healthcare system would be an attempt to so infuriate the populace because of a breakdown in a basic government service that the people will demand a change (back).
doing at their own peril
September 13, 2009 - 08:53 ET by jon_torlinFor something that wouldn't take effect immediately(I don't want it to take effect at all), they are in a big big hurry to get this done, but we know this isn't a good thing anyway. I got a feeling they are going to try to ram it down, at least as a bluff if Soetoro's appearance in a different state yesterday indicates anything.
My dad told me that the democrat congressman in his area who's one of Pelousy's lapdogs has promised that he won't vote for this thing. I said I'd call BS on it unless he really does vote against it, but I wonder if other democrats have been saying the same thing if only to calm the voters down from having noisy townhall meetings.
Anyone know something similar?
-Jon
I would not trust a
September 13, 2009 - 08:57 ET by motherbeltI would not trust a Democrat who says he'll/she'll vote "no" as far as I could throw the Capitol Building!
Democrats talk a good independence game, but when push comes to shove, they all revert to the pack.
Mother
September 13, 2009 - 09:01 ET by ricklailI like the way Rush puts it. In the end the Blue Dogs are still Democrats.
Semper suprene nitens
OBAMACARE: If it ain't good enough for my Congressman then it ain't good enough for me.
Full Moon Last Night
September 13, 2009 - 09:11 ET by dboVia Michelle, the loons are out in full force in Kossackland. Those pictures you saw yesterday of "thousands" of people in DC are now part of a conspiracy theory.
Popcorn, please
September 13, 2009 - 09:16 ET by FeynmanFanI'm going to need more popcorn. This is going to be fun to watch!
"Reason and persuasion are the only practical instruments against error. To make way for these, free inquiry must be indulged" - Thomas Jefferson
→ That's funny
September 13, 2009 - 09:58 ET by Cool ArrowNotice, the "Flag at half-mast", is in the process of being raised by an individual standing at its base.
They really are getting hysterical over there.
Van Jones is a Quitter - FS
Lies
September 13, 2009 - 09:44 ET by ricklailObama is hell bent on getting this thing passed. Over the weeks to come we are going to hear more lies from the WH than are told each year at the liars convention. Lying is the only way he can get it passed and he knows it.
The AP story that our paper ran on the Tea Party said it was a protest against health care. They never mentioned how many people were they. Not only is the WH lying but so are the lapdogs in the MSM.
Liars never win. I pray to the good Lord that he exposes these lies.
Semper suprene nitens
OBAMACARE: If it ain't good enough for my Congressman then it ain't good enough for me.
Joe Wilson apology to Nancy Pelosi?
September 13, 2009 - 09:50 ET by ThisnThatPelosi has said Joe Wilson's apology to Obama (and Obama's acceptance) simply aren't enough. He broke the rules of Congress, and needs to appologize to the entire Congress. If he doesn't, he's going to have to stand in front of Congress while Pelosi admonishes him.
How much in campaign contribution will a video of that be worth to Joe Wilson?
___________________________________
"Tax the rich" is a basically unstable way of governing - The NYT
Joe Wilson is probably thinking
September 13, 2009 - 09:53 ET by FeynmanFanJoe Wilson is probably thinking "C'mon, Nancy. Throw me in the briar patch!"
"Reason and persuasion are the only practical instruments against error. To make way for these, free inquiry must be indulged" - Thomas Jefferson
He should tell her he has
September 13, 2009 - 12:52 ET by motherbeltHe should tell her he has apologized to the person who matters and he is done.
Oh, wait, he did!
I only wish he had added that he has no intention of playing into the Democrats' hands who want to drag this out for purposes of their own egos.
Boeing Plant Chucks Union
September 13, 2009 - 10:04 ET by slickwillie2001A Boeing plant in South Carolina voted the union OUT by a huge margin. I call this a good start:
Key Boeing Factory Goes Non-Union: http://www.americanthinker.com
"Workers at Boeing's 787 fuselage assembly plant in Charleston, S.C. have decisively voted to get rid of the Machinists union as their bargaining representative with the company. The vote was 199 for decertification of the International Association of Machinists (IAM) union against 68 for retaining it."
I'm hoping for the day when the only unions in our country are the government worker's unions.
Actually most union dues
September 13, 2009 - 10:11 ET by MidAmericaActually most union dues should be considered a tax levied by the democrat party as a fee for the privilege of employment.
Which Carolina has the worst scandals?
September 13, 2009 - 10:20 ET by ricklailHere is a good story from of all places the Charlotted Observer. Mark Sanford was wrong but I don't think any laws were broken. On the other hand Sleazly has broken laws. Sleazly is a DEMOCRAT! That is the reason that it has not become a national story.
Semper suprene nitens
OBAMACARE: If it ain't good enough for my Congressman then it ain't good enough for me.
My prediction--again
September 13, 2009 - 11:28 ET by StarAZIf he does ram this through, ignoring quite a significant outpouring of popular anger and confusion about it, the issue will--ZIP--disappear off the boards for yrs as the regulation writers get about inserting all the things we didn't like under the cover of the regulatory process--who is in charge of regulations--why Cass Sunstein--"dogs are people, too" (mine is, of course, but not everyone's). Then we will be herded over to scream about cap & trade, which will also be rammed...and then Afghanistan...what there, who knows. We are pawns on the board--but those pawns in enough numbers...well, watch out. 56% of the people voted for "change." Well, it's coming.
And don't forget, Star, that
September 13, 2009 - 12:55 ET by motherbeltAnd don't forget, Star, that this atrocity won't even become law until 2013! The Democrats and the President want to ram this through and then have people forget about it until then. That's how they will try to save all their butts in 2010 and 2012.
I am not forgetting
September 13, 2009 - 13:13 ET by StarAZThe devil will be in the regs--and who reads the Federal Register--not even I, anymore. There was some talk of bringing the insurance cos into line on not cancelling sick people or refusing people for pre-existings sooner--don't know where that stands, does anyone? My memory is that the ins cos said they would not change this unless they were "getting" all the new people on their rolls...so that could be awhile. Basically, this would disappear--we would be thrown some new crap to chow down on, and life in Obamaland will grind on.
Now that I thnk about it,
September 13, 2009 - 13:17 ET by motherbeltNow that I thnk about it, maybe this was their plan all along to push it back until 2 more Congressional and one more Presidential elections come to pass...
Nah....they wouldn't do that.
\sarc
Actually the rules were
September 13, 2009 - 11:46 ET by Dan The Man 2Actually the rules were made by the House and the Senate and they may change them. The rules they can't change are the ones in the Constitution, well at least without Herculean effort and coopertation. So they could, according to the Constitution, pass this with a simple majority.
If you, for a moment,
September 13, 2009 - 12:24 ET by celatorIf you, for a moment, extract Obams's vile politics, and just look at his leadership/management style, several conclusions can be easily drawn.
He has created a White House which is in complete chaos. There seem to be no clear lines of responsibility, his vetting process is a shambles, his key messages are inconsistent and based on poor assumptions or outright lies. He has destroyed whatever current trust citizens have in the current White House. He can't reach his goals even with an all democrat Congress.
As a leader/manager/executive, Obama is a disaster, which is good, in a way, for the country, long term. It means his agenda, including his HellCare initiative, will fail.
No citizen's right to life, liberty, pursuit of happiness, or property is safe as long as Obama is President of the United States.
Of course he will foist
September 13, 2009 - 12:53 ET by ConservativeRexOf course he will foist this upon us. Why? Because like any statist, he knows exactly whats good for us. He is a petulant, spoiled child with very thin skin. You've heard him speak, he on the verge of screaming at people.
The parasites of this country go right along with him of course. You see, we are the host, the folks that voted for this poser are the tapeworms of society. Once this gets in, we'll never be able to get it out. There are way too many tapeworms in American society, and these fools want to import millions more. You haven't heard the caterwauling yet that would result in trying to get rid of obamicare once it's in. The tapeworms have won, for now. We are the productive class, he'll tell us what we need and when we need it and he'll not truck any back talk.
Sure, what's to stop him?
September 13, 2009 - 13:10 ET by RR GOPSure, what's to stop him? Pretty obvious to me they've been working on the Blue Dogs behind the scenes.
Every politician has his/her price.
One of the 34% who thinks George W. Bush was a great President. One of the 86% who wants to bring back the stock and pillory.
Beatles fans
September 13, 2009 - 13:15 ET by Jack BauerSorry -- just had to post, I'm listening to the Beatles remastered and up pops I Wanna Hold Your Hand in German. (Komm, gib Mir Deine Hand)
HELP. That just don't sound right!
Now it's She Loves You. (Sie Liebt Dich) Arggghhh.
Have you heard the stereo remixes?
September 13, 2009 - 13:15 ET by nwahsHave you heard the stereo remixes of some of the older songs? I rather the mono mixes. I don't like having the drums off center.
Politics is showbiz for ugly people
my biggest fear
September 13, 2009 - 13:20 ET by katainkentafter both versions are done and the House and Senate meet - what they have agreed/reconciled/fixed and voted on will look nothing like what comes out of the conference committee.
I was hoping against hope this abomination would be shredded and they'd start over with something less complex (step by step) and bipartisan. Pipe dream.
One small feeble hope is that at this point, people are too scared for their jobs to pass it regardless of this end run.
___________________________________________
We must not let our rulers load us with perpetual debt. ~Thomas Jefferson
(if you think healthcare is expensive now - wait until its free)
Medicare For All
September 13, 2009 - 13:38 ET by motherbeltAnyone else see this in the WaPo by George McGovern?
Medicare For All
This piece has more than one howler:
I go to the doctor or hospital of my choice, and my taxes pay all the bills. It's wonderful.
That's only because your doctor accepts Medicare patients. Many don't any more because they lose money. (But what the Hey...in your world they will have no choice!)
We know that Medicare has worked well for half a century for those of us over 65.
Right, George; it works so well that just about everyone on Medicare has supplemental insurance to cover what Medicare doesn't.
Why does it become "socialized medicine" when we extend it to younger Americans?
Taking such a shortsighted view would leave nearly 50 million Americans
without health insurance and without the means to buy it.
There's that 50 million figure again.
Removing the payments now going to the insurance corporations would
considerably offset the tax increase necessary to cover all Americans.
He then says that payments to insurance companies amount to $450 billion a year. He then suggests that we (those of us who actually pay taxes) fork that over to the government in the form of taxes instead.
And the biggie:
Investing in the health of our citizens will enhance the well-being and security of the nation.
(emphasis mine)
There you go! It's a matter of national security!!
and my taxes pay all the
September 13, 2009 - 17:50 ET by ThisnThatand my taxes pay all the bills
Wrong, George. Everyone else's taxes pay your bill. Folks on medicare are retired. They don't pay taxes.
This is one of the big problems with liberals. They think they're home scott free if only someone else picks up the tab.
___________________________________
"Tax the rich" is a basically unstable way of governing - The NYT
Is Obama dumb like fox???
September 13, 2009 - 14:14 ET by 007memoI don't believe there has been a method to the Democrats madness because that would actually have been brilliant. But it's quite possible opportunity will allow this scenario to play out.
The crazies on the right have likely overplayed their hand. Obama has offered humiliating (to the far left anyway) olive branches to the Republicans in the last few weeks and the Republicans keep ____ - slappin him in the face.
So, you think Obama won't be inclined to "ram healthcare through"? If not Obama, how about Rham Emmanuel?
And the _____ - slappin the Republicans have been doing will nicely provide the cover that Obama needs to perform this coup (aka, "his socialist takeover of the Government"). lol.
Re Dumb
September 13, 2009 - 16:10 ET by slickwillie2001I don't think the Bamster is dumb like a fox, I think he's just plain dumb. I've had enough experience with affirmative action college grads to recognize his type. His degree from Harvard is meaningless. Put all the hype over him, all the liberal propaganda about his 'brilliance' aside, and evaluate him on what you see and hear yourself, and I believe you will come to the same conclusion.
That said, he does have some folks working for him (?) like Emanuel and Axelrod that are corrupt but also very good at what they do. The success of his administration will depend on how well he takes direction and delegates. His incompetence works in our favor domestically, but may have tragic consequences in foreign affairs.
And like the typical liberal
September 13, 2009 - 19:12 ET by general companyAnd the _____ - slappin the Republicans have been doing will nicely
provide the cover that Obama needs to perform this coup (aka, "his
socialist takeover of the Government"). lol.
You seem to think you will be excused from his tragic policies?
My Gov. thinks I am dangerous, so be careful
"Television is a freak show" Bernie Goldberg
Obama's smart policies
September 14, 2009 - 12:06 ET by 007memoObama's smart policies - I'm looking forward to them going through.
I remember my Repub friends' admonition the previous 8 years, "you lost, get over it".
007moron, there is nothing "smart" about Marxism
September 21, 2009 - 20:40 ET by R D HelmIf you want to live under such a hideous form of government, them pack your ass off to Cuba.
And take your spawn with you.
No joke.
-Dave
I agree with Rush. It's time for Obama to resign.
For our other angry Socialist
September 21, 2009 - 20:52 ET by Unsane(His Majesty The Shahinshah's) smart policies - Really? Smart? Why is it then, that when He got His massive stimulus bill, unemployment ROSE?
Why is unemployment still well above 9% and heading to 10%?
If you think this is smart, I suggest you don't go to Cuba. I suggest you go to Paris instead, and stay there. France sounds like it would be more your speed. Lots of unemployment, lots of government babying, lots of taxes. And lots of Going Absolutely Nowhere as a nation.
I remember my Repub friends' admonition the previous 8 years, "you lost, get over it". That's only because you were whining about a "stolen election". Besides, no one has told you to roll over and die and accept policies blindly. I certainly haven't. Mr. Greatthings got into the White House in 1993 and the Republicans so succesfully opposed him that they were rewarded with majorities in the House and Senate. That kept him in check. Now once again we are faced with restraining the bad habits of a Socialist. And we will.
"CONSUMED DEMOCRACY RETURNS A SOCIALIST REGIME" - Slayer, "Fictional Reality", from Divine Intervention (1994)
Mark Steyn is convinced Obama will get something through
September 13, 2009 - 15:07 ET by R D Helmhttp://www.ocregiste...
I agree, as the left is hell bent on controlling 100% of every facet of our lives, and controlling health care will put them most of the way there.
-Dave
I agree with Rush. It's time for Obama to resign.
Naw
September 13, 2009 - 15:21 ET by Forbin001First off I dont think they will do it. Second, if they did, and it pains me to say this but we have to be honest with ourselves, I think it would lead to open revolution of our government.
Did you see the protesters yesterday? Over a million....can you imagine them storming the Capitol and physically throwing out the politicians? An awful scenario but it is possible.
San Diego sets up acoustic weapon at townhall meeting
September 13, 2009 - 15:50 ET by TheTruthSan Diego sets up acoustic weapon at townhall meeting
September 11, 2009 (San Diego) – “Long-range acoustic devices [LRADs] for crowd control can be extremely dangerous. These are used in Iraq to control insurgents. They can cause serious and lasting harm to humans…We want to know WHY our Sheriff Dept has this weapon,” Sal Magallanez of San Diego-based Liberty One Radio said in an e-mail sent to East County Magazine, prompting a joint investigation.
The device was stationed by San Diego County Sheriff deputies at a recent town hall forum hosted by Congresswoman Susan Davis (D-San Diego) in Spring Valley and at a subsequent town hall with Congressman Darrell Issa (R-San Diego). The Davis Rally drew an estimated 1,300-1,500 people, including vocal conservative and liberal protest groups.
A public records search conducted by East County Magazine has confirmed that the device is an LRAD 500-x manufactured by San Diego-based American Technology Corporation (ATC). Capable of use as an effective loudspeaker, the LRAD also has the ability to emit a deafening tone aimed at incapacitating and dispersing a crowd without use of lethal force.
09/12/2009 Taxpayer march could be biggest rally ever in capital
September 13, 2009 - 15:53 ET by TheTruthA million or more rock Washington Taxpayer march could be biggest rally ever in capital
pretty cool! i am still in
September 13, 2009 - 18:44 ET by JAJTpretty cool! i am still in awe of how successful it was! and disgusted at people who argue at the fact, pictures don't lie. JAJT
Trade war?
September 13, 2009 - 17:00 ET by katainkentAnyone read this? Anyone nervous?
→ Obama's chicken choking faux pas?
September 13, 2009 - 18:33 ET by Cool ArrowIt appears China might retaliate against Obama's first strike in this trade war with a tariff on chickens, thus choking off a major outlet of American poultry.
Let's see . . . protecting Union jobs while throwing nun union workers to the wolves.
Sounds about right, doesn't it?
Van Jones is a Quitter - FS
You're kidding, right?
September 13, 2009 - 18:37 ET by FeynmanFanNuns are unionized now? ;)
"Reason and persuasion are the only practical instruments against error. To make way for these, free inquiry must be indulged" - Thomas Jefferson
→ ouch!!!
September 13, 2009 - 18:39 ET by Cool ArrowYes, The 7up Workers of America.
"Never had it, never will"
Van Jones is a Quitter - FS
Cool, I apologize
September 13, 2009 - 18:49 ET by FeynmanFanI really tried to wait for you to correct it, but it was just too good to pass up.
I'll try to be stronger next time. ;)
"Reason and persuasion are the only practical instruments against error. To make way for these, free inquiry must be indulged" - Thomas Jefferson
→ Not a problem
September 13, 2009 - 18:51 ET by Cool ArrowJust don't get into the habit. Get it? Habit?
It was funny. The nun union.
Like, what are they peddling?
Van Jones is a Quitter - FS
What?
September 13, 2009 - 18:55 ET by general companyLike, what are they peddling?
A bicycle of course.
My Gov. thinks I am dangerous, so be careful
"Television is a freak show" Bernie Goldberg
→ And Hit Records
September 13, 2009 - 19:01 ET by Cool ArrowHey!!! She looks a lot like Debbie Reynolds.
Or maybe Sister Bertrille. I wonder if Air Wolf was a spinoff?
Van Jones is a Quitter - FS
doh
September 13, 2009 - 18:52 ET by katainkentnow you have someone playing straight man for your pun-ishing double act?
Trade with Red China
September 13, 2009 - 18:43 ET by Sergeant ROCKChina has been playing games with tariffs for years - especially with poultry and other agricultural goods. Research it.
Have you happen to notice the lop-sided trade deficit lately?
"I ask, Sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people. To disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them."
George Mason
→ 14 years
September 13, 2009 - 18:47 ET by Cool ArrowI've bought lots of stuff from China over those 14 years.
I'm all in for a trade war if you are.
Let's start by refusing to buy back all that paper we sold them.
Van Jones is a Quitter - FS
To cripple the Chinese economy..
September 13, 2009 - 18:53 ET by Sergeant ROCK.. launch airstrikes on Wal-Mart warehouses worldwide.
The trade agreements with Red China are a farse. There was never any intention on the part of American politicians to have 'fair and equal' trade with the Reds. It's all about importing their cheap, crap products.
"I ask, Sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people. To disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them."
George Mason
→ You're right
September 13, 2009 - 18:56 ET by Cool ArrowAnd like Beck says "This isn't about Democrat or Republican, they're both corrupt"
Or as Ross Perot said "There isn't a dime's worth of difference between them.
Van Jones is a Quitter - FS
Corrupt
September 13, 2009 - 18:59 ET by Sergeant ROCKMeanwhile, they're buying-up our debt and modernizing a massive military.
So, when is the march on GOP headquarters?
"I ask, Sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people. To disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them."
George Mason
→ Too late
September 13, 2009 - 19:13 ET by Cool ArrowThe GOP sold us out on TARP.
If we don't vote the RINOS out along with the rest of the Obamanites, we'll get what we deserve once again.
Van Jones is a Quitter - FS
Rambles on China
September 13, 2009 - 23:57 ET by UnsaneMeanwhile, they're buying-up our debt and modernizing a massive military. You know, if the Chinese buy up 100% of our debt - they wouldn't have a penny or yuan left over for the PLA. Crowding out does happen - even in China.
I'm only being slightly facetious. When I visited China I couldn't help but notice the Boeings that Chinese airlines were using. Last time I checked, Boeing does not give away planes for free.
You seem to think that China is this invincible boogeyman. While I think the pose a threat - notably by their doing little things like attempting to blind one of our satellites some years back - they aren't invincible.
They (and the Japanese, Russians and members of the EU no one ever whines about) wouldn't have any ability to buy any debt if we didn't run up any or worked up the national will to pay down the debt. Of course, it is much easier to whine endlessly about China this and China that rather than take a good hard look at ourselves.
Yes, they are modernizing their military, and we COULD be modernizing ours - but His Majesty The Shahinshah decided that the United States can do with only 187 F-22s - not enough to replace the F-15 fleet. He also refuses to replace our 46-47 year old (on average) tanker fleet with the KC-67 or the KC-45. I share that frustration, believe me....
As for trade - that doesn't bother me. The last time the United States went full-throttle protectionist, it didn't work out so well for America and the world. Let the Chinese make various kitchen items (among many other things). Once the United States stops making crap, dispenses with excessive governmental regulation and figures out the time that unions served a purpose has come and gone, we'll manufacture even more than we already do. Besides, as pointed out, China must get the money to buy planes from Boeing from someplace.
"CONSUMED DEMOCRACY RETURNS A SOCIALIST REGIME" - Slayer, "Fictional Reality", from Divine Intervention (1994)
Underestimating the Reds
September 19, 2009 - 10:29 ET by Sergeant ROCKYou are naive if you think that what we have is 'fair trade' with the Reds. Have you seen the trade deficit lately? Yeah, well.. that's nice that Boeing employees and stockholders are enjoying trade with the Reds - tell that to the people here trying to export agricultural products to China that are having a tough time because of their protectionist policies.
As for the military, you seem to forget that a short time ago one of their newest submarines surfaced behind one of our aircraft carriers in the carrier group undetected.
You foolishly underestimate the Chinese. And our ridiculously lop-sided trade policy, that you defend, is the cause of the problem.
"I ask, Sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people. To disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them."
George Mason
Setting the record straight
September 21, 2009 - 21:11 ET by UnsaneYou are naive if you think that what we have is 'fair trade' with the Reds. You are even more naive than to believe that there is such a thing as "fair trade". With ANYONE, Red or not. Or that there is such a thing as "fair". I hate the word "fair". "Fair" is extremely subjective.
You know something? I barely care about the trade deficit anymore. So much goes into it, it's not even funny. I bet you love a weak dollar, then, if you are so deeply concerned about the trade deficit...a weak dollar drives it WAY down. If we were to pay off our national debt, thus making dollars rarer on the market and thus making the dollar much more valuable - the trade deficit will EXPLODE. Besides, as I noted before, manufacturing still goes on in the United States. More can be done if the United States stops making crap, and if ridiculous regulations are curtailed, decreasing the costs of doing business here. Cutting capital gains taxes and the corporate income tax would also go a LONG way.
Yeah, well.. that's nice that Boeing employees and stockholders are enjoying trade with the Reds - tell that to the people here trying to export agricultural products to China that are having a tough time because of their protectionist policies. Sounds to me like someone is a little envious of Boeing. That's the only case I could think of on the fly. There are others. That one came to mind because I was there once and saw this up close. Not to mention while I see how they can become an economic hyperpower - I also have seen a lot of things that can, and do, hold them back. And oftentimes the Chinese impose them on themselves.
As for the military, you seem to forget that a short time ago one of their newest submarines surfaced behind one of our aircraft carriers in the carrier group undetected. I also know of attempts of theirs to blind one of our satellites and am very aware that they have targeted our communications above all.
You foolishly underestimate the Chinese. You do not read my posts. I have an eye on the Chinese as they are a concern of mine. I do not think they are this invincible threat you and countless NBers seem to think they are. They have a rapidly industrailizing economy yet still do not permit their farmers to own their own land. The Communist Party still maintains rigorous control over the whole of the country yet they still face riots and insurrections at times. The CPC's most feared thing right now is the cell phone; often they are used to coordinate protests against the CPC. Sure, they can have submarines surface behind our aircraft carriers. But can they project power? No. Not yet, anyway, and that is something I am keeping a very close eye on. People constantly love to whine about the U.S. Treasuries they hold, yet they keep sending the same bums to DC that make it possible for the Chinese to hold Treasuries. They are also unfamiliar with the term "crowd out". Finally, have you heard about the race riots in Xinjiang? Yeah, me neither, except for my foreign media sources. Is China a potential threat? Yes. Do they concern me? Yes. Are they this invincible force that cannot be stopped but only whined about? No. What does the future hold for China? For me this is the scariest part. They could turn out to have a peceful transition to democracy. They could also veer headlong into world threatening fascism. But I don't know, and neither do you, nor does anyone else, and THAT is what keeps me awake at night concerning China. And our ridiculously lop-sided trade policy, that you defend, is the cause of the problem. And taking a Smoot-Hawley approach, which you apparently want to do, will only lead the United States from having 10% unemployment to 30% or so.
"CONSUMED DEMOCRACY RETURNS A SOCIALIST REGIME" - Slayer, "Fictional Reality", from Divine Intervention (1994)
Appeasing the Red Chinese
September 23, 2009 - 18:51 ET by Sergeant ROCKI'll try and be a little less long-winded. No, I do not think that the Reds are 'invincible'. However, thanks to the trade policies you defend, the only counter to the threat will be nuclear. You're ridiculous if you think that unemployment will rise to 30% (maybe in China it will) - we are the consumer, they are the producer. If anything, unemployment would go down as there would be a need to PRODUCE products here!
The only thing that your free trade has brought us is crap products and a fatter profit margin for companies that shipped jobs overseas. You skated right over the fact that our trade is terribly lopsided, Jer.. I mean Unsane. Name another situation that measures up to this one - you can't!
Save your excuses, comrade.
"I ask, Sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people. To disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them."
George Mason
Re tires and chickens
September 13, 2009 - 19:07 ET by slickwillie2001Heard that; another brilliant move by our idiot President. I had not heard the chicken aspect, I read somewhere that a counter-tariff might be applied to Boeing airplanes. That would sting. But the Chinese don't really have to respond in kind, all they have to do to kick the Bamster in the teeth is to not show up at the next US Bond auction. Then the Bamster will have to simply print money to buy our own bonds. We can't do that for long.
Yea, but,
September 13, 2009 - 19:20 ET by general companyThen the Bamster will have to simply print money to buy our own bonds. We can't do that for long.
I doubt Obama knows that, or cares.
My Gov. thinks I am dangerous, so be careful
"Television is a freak show" Bernie Goldberg
worse
September 13, 2009 - 19:23 ET by katainkentI believe he thinks that this time, because its him, it will work.
debt, tariffs... trying to remember a segment by Mark Levin. All that's left, I believe, is higher taxes.
James Manning
September 13, 2009 - 20:20 ET by GregECheck this out!
http://www.youtube.c...
Hmmm..
September 13, 2009 - 20:42 ET by Sergeant ROCK.. what's with the 'www.allah.org' website?
"White folks are rising!"
lol.. he called Obama an illegal alien.
EDIT: D'oh! that's atlah.org!
"I ask, Sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people. To disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them."
George Mason
I like "The Long Legged Mac
September 13, 2009 - 21:35 ET by GregEI like "The Long Legged Mac Daddy" LOL
Yea, the wife has been
September 13, 2009 - 21:38 ET by general companyCalling Obama that since she heard it.
My Gov. thinks I am dangerous, so be careful
"Television is a freak show" Bernie Goldberg
Greg... I do as well, I
September 13, 2009 - 21:48 ET by bigtimerGreg...
I do as well, I love Manning...put a few of his links here in the past myself....first time I had ever heard of him was during the primaries with this one.
AWD has a blog post about this as well.
He minces no words, ever, he tells the truth as he sees it.
'Go Green...Recycle Congress'
I'd never heard of him
September 13, 2009 - 21:59 ET by GregEI'd never heard of him before. Interesting stuff.
Are You Willing To Die For Obama's Health Care
September 13, 2009 - 22:18 ET by upcountrywaterSome more of Dr. James David Manning
Long legged mack daddy LOLOLOL
State controlled health care is Tort Reform.
Current Adiminsration Does not Care
September 13, 2009 - 22:57 ET by ChattychitoObama and his house Cronies don't care. they are going to RAM Socialism down our throats whether we like it or not. 9/12 was not enough we need to go back to DC and stay there until they stop this Socialistic agenda.
We were toast as a Nation the day he was elected. for there is a book that tells us the Godly order. When a Hamite rules over Jephite's and Shemite's the God's order is out of wack. the next event is the destruction of all the Hamite rules over. KYAG!!!!!!
"A man who doesn't borrow from the brains of others proves he has no brains of his own." CH Spurgeon
Men's Health
September 13, 2009 - 22:16 ET by UnsaneIf this has been brought up elsewhere, I apologize...
I always thought that Men's Health was about that...men's health. It's not that good a mag, really...but not political. So what the hell is it doing with His Majesty The Shahinshah on the cover for its latest edition with a headline that makes it clear that it is giving Him (or those slavishly loyal to Him at least) space to sell his health care/Nanny State proposal?
"CONSUMED DEMOCRACY RETURNS A SOCIALIST REGIME" - Slayer, "Fictional Reality", from Divine Intervention (1994)
New plan lets Afghan detainees question detention
September 13, 2009 - 23:15 ET by katainkentyay?