For general discussion and debate. Possible talking point: how does fining people if they don't get insurance reduce healthcare costs?
Americans would be fined up to $3,800 for failing to buy health insurance under a plan that circulated in Congress on Tuesday as President Barack Obama met Democratic leaders to search for ways to salvage his health care overhaul...Just as auto coverage is now mandatory in most states, Baucus would a require that all Americans get health insurance once the system is overhauled. Penalties for failing to get insurance would start at $750 a year for individuals and $1,500 for families. Households making more than three times the federal poverty level - about $66,000 for a family of four - would face the maximum fines. For families, it would be $3,800, and for individuals, $950.
Honestly, what economics courses did these idiots take in college?
Editor at Large
Comments Policy
It has nothing to do with
September 9, 2009 - 09:02 ET by HockeyKidIt has nothing to do with economics. It's straight out of the Chicago Thuggery Insurance How-To Manual. If you don't pay for protection, things can get, well--expensive.
"Beauty is only skin deep, but liberal's to the bone." - me
"A citizen can hardly
September 9, 2009 - 09:02 ET by The Distributist"A citizen can hardly distinguish between a tax and a fine, except
that the fine is generally much lighter." -GKC
Queer taxes
September 9, 2009 - 09:02 ET by sevenThe tax returns have specific guidelines regarding who files. If I do not make enough income to file, then I never get to the line regarding insurance. That means a lot of the ultra poor still don't obtain insurance nor pay the fine because they do not file taxes.
The tax system has fines and penalties for failure to file, failure to report income failure to pay taxes.
I see a break down being exposed. I for one will stop paying for the house brand of federal insurance the day it denies a service and fails to perform.
Compulsory insurance?
September 9, 2009 - 09:10 ET by metaphorsbwithuLicensed drivers are required to carry auto insurance because they are driving dangerous vehicles on public roads paid for by fellow citizens.
Comparing that to requiring all people to insure their bodies against sickness and injury has no constitutional justification IMHO.
We might just as well require that politicians buy liability insurance to protect their constituents from the harm they do.
metaphorsbwithu
LOL - Fill in the blank
September 9, 2009 - 09:22 ET by KC MulvilleIf you don't buy auto insurance, you're not allowed to drive.
If you don't buy health insurance, you're not allowed to ... ?
Clear up facts.
September 9, 2009 - 09:50 ET by sevenYou do not have to have insurance coverage on your own car in my state. You have to have proof of ability to pay for repairs on the other guy's car if you crash into it.
Health insurance says I have to pay for the other guys premiums for damages he does to his own body. That is socialism.
no
September 9, 2009 - 10:21 ET by candanceLicensed drivers are required to carry auto insurance because they are driving dangerous vehicles on public roads paid for by fellow citizens.
We're required to carry insurance because they've done a good job of getting the government to shape the law in their favor. If your company could convince the government to require your product by law, you'd be all over that too. When cars first came out, you didn't even need a license or anything. Now you need three different documents and you get fined for not wearing a seatbelt.
"liability insurance to protect their constituents"
September 9, 2009 - 11:46 ET by SouthJersey1953I'm all for the liability insurance to protect their constiuents from the harm they do.
"Maybe if we keep our heads buried in the sand, this will blow over" - The Congressional Republicans
"Licensed drivers are
September 9, 2009 - 15:28 ET by ckc1227"Licensed drivers are required to carry auto insurance because they are
driving dangerous vehicles on public roads paid for by fellow citizens."
Car insurance is also a state issue, not a federal one.
Re Car Insurance
September 9, 2009 - 16:19 ET by slickwillie2001In addition, the insurance required by drivers is an amount to cover the damage to other vehicles, and medical costs for others involved in the car accident. Insurance for your own vehicle or your own medical care due to the accident is not required. It's not at all comparable to health insurance.
9/11 & The Left
September 9, 2009 - 09:13 ET by PeterDToday’s New York Post features a gossip item about Charlie Sheen:
“CHARLIE Sheen -- the beloved star of TV's most popular sitcom, "Two and a Half Men" -- is still preaching the crackpot theory that "the official story behind 9/11 is a fraud" and demanding a new investigation. In time for this week's eighth anniversary of the terrorist attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon, Sheen has written an open letter to President Obama claiming, "9/11 has been the pretext for the systematic dismantling of our Constitution and Bill of Rights." Sheen and his fellow conspiracy theorists also believe the "Bush/Cheney regime" and the CIA orchestrated 9/11 as a ploy to invade Iraq”.
Now, I don’t give a rat’s ass about Charlie Sheen. But it is ironic to me that many in Hollywood and on the Left in general, feel that Bush & Cheney were involved in “the systematic dismantling of our Constitution and Bill of Rights." Ironic in that Obama has done more to trample the Constitution and the Bill of Rights in 9 months than the Left has accused Bush/Cheney in 8 years. And we have 39 more months of Obama? My goodness! We’re doomed.
Self-contradiction
September 9, 2009 - 09:28 ET by KC MulvilleIsn't it self-contradicting to accuse the government of dismantling your rights, when you're exercising your rights to make the accusation in the first place?
Leave Britney, Um, I Mean Charlie, Alone!
September 10, 2009 - 01:48 ET by stratmanCharlie's one of those good time boys that never had a chance when it came to common sense - Papa Sheen may play the President on TV but in real life he's a screwball.
I like the Sheen's in a variety of movies and TV shows. Charlie is a hoot in 2 and 1/2 Men, about as debauched as they come but with a buried heart that sometimes leads him to a decent conclusion.
As for how Charlie got to this "truther" point in real life, well, take your pick:
I'd drink a beer with him but I wouldn't drink from his beer.
H/T to Little Feat's "Spanish Moon" -
As The World Turns
September 9, 2009 - 09:13 ET by dboAs the wonderful world of nanny state incrementalism continues...
2010-$3800 fine for not getting health insurance
2015-$7600 fine for individual exceeding CO2 emission allotment
2020-$15,2000 fine for not eating government mandated food package
2025...?
control, not idiocy
September 9, 2009 - 09:16 ET by jon_torlinI see it as a means of exerting, nay, grabbing control of the masses.
It's mentioned that most states require auto-insurance, Texas where I am is one of them. Fortunately, depending on who you are with, auto-insurance is not that pricey and for those that don't have it, it's out of forgetting to renew(even with reminders) than it is about not being able to afford it. Unless you get hit by someone driving illegally in one form or another, that is. But the fines for not having it are also pretty hefty too. Do I like having to pay for insurance because the state tells me to? No, but I can afford it, so it's not an issue with me. And Texas isn't going to be like Massachusetts any time soon.
That being said, auto-insurance isn't the boogeyman that health care is, and that's where it gets a bit blurry.
Granted, there are problems with it in this country, but it's still better than Canada or the United Kingdom, especially the UK where they have guidelines about letting people die under sedation rather than give them a fighting chance for life. We are sitting on the edge of a precipice with the current administration and the current congress that have lied to the Americans time and time again for the last several months saying there's a problem with our health care, most notably the fictional number of people uninsured.
This thing about fining individuals and families is patently absurd at best, and like the health care bill, this should not see the light of day. But we should expect no less from the Democrats in congress. Again, it's about control, not a desire to see "everyone" covered.
That's my take on it.
-Jon
It is ALL ABOUT THE CONTROL
September 9, 2009 - 09:24 ET by UnsaneYou may remember around 1990 or so when TX, in a bid to make mandatory auto insurance laws have teeth, began requiring proof of insurance be shown whenever registering vehicles, getting the safety inspection, getting a driver's license, when a Power Tripper demands it from you, and so on. With this in effect, one presumes that more people went out and got insurance, and the price would go down, right? Wrong! Or, what about in 1994, when in a bid to stop uninsured people from stealing registration stickers from license plates, TXDoT started issuing windshield-mounted registration stickers. Did insurance rates go down? No.
The insurers would argue that because more people entered the risk pool, the cost of insuring those additional people goes up.
In fact, in spite of all these laws requiring me to be insured in the state of TX, I STILL carry on my auto policy a provision in case I get hit by an uninsured driver. The irony...
No, nothing - absolutely NOTHING - on Capitol Hill concerning health care is about health care. It is about them exerting total control over people (and about some of those limousine Leftists keeping those oh so icky masses away from them).
"CONSUMED DEMOCRACY RETURNS A SOCIALIST REGIME" - Slayer, "Fictional Reality", from Divine Intervention (1994)
Yes these measures have not
September 9, 2009 - 10:07 ET by Dan The Man 2Yes these measures have not stopped some (illegals) from not having insurance but for teh most part it has worked to make most have it. I am in favor of a gas tax for liability insurance. If you buy gas to power your car you are insured, well at least all those cars registered in Texas will be.
There might be some problems driving out of state but it would greatly cut down on the liability aspect. And the question of insuring out of staters if they buy gas in Texas would come up. Ok its not perfect but it may be workable.
too much already!
September 9, 2009 - 11:01 ET by jon_torlinOh hell, there's too much gas tax on gas as it is already, some of it goes to the states' DOTs but then it goes to other things that doesn't have a whit to do with transportation. Don't forget there's also different grades (last I heard there were 42) for different states and depending on the makeup, some would cost a lot more than others, no thanks to the EPA.
If you remember a few years ago after one or more of the hurricanes, there was a vote to take a nickel off the gas tax, a NICKEL (5 as in FIVE CENTS) and they wouldn't do it!
A line's got to be drawn somewhere when it comes to these damn taxes on everything, and then some! They want to raise taxes on gas in California because people buying the high mileage cars aren't spending as much on gas, as in lack of revenue.
Not ranting at you personally, Dan, but given the way things are, the idea of putting more taxes on top of the ones we're going to get our wallets emptied by just gets my dander up and running. I just wonder what they are spending the money on. These days, you just don't know.
-Jon
I get that there are too
September 9, 2009 - 11:09 ET by Dan The Man 2I get that there are too many taxes, but this is a solution to uninsured drivers. I too see the tax as a problem, but its picking the lesser of two evils. Now if there stiff punishments for having accidents w/o insurance or ability to pay then it would also be better. No easy solutions.
Bad idea
September 9, 2009 - 15:18 ET by UnsaneDan, no way in hell I will ever support that idea. If I have to suffer paying auto insurance - and it was a real PITA when I was younger and my rates were much higher - other drivers can enjoy the same pain. I am not about to coddle people because many of them flat out refuse to get auto insurance (and then later on hit me or other responsible people who otherwise pay their bills and forcing them to draw on their uninsured/underinsured motorists coverage).
"CONSUMED DEMOCRACY RETURNS A SOCIALIST REGIME" - Slayer, "Fictional Reality", from Divine Intervention (1994)
Read my lips. No new taxes.
September 9, 2009 - 09:20 ET by QueenMumre: Penalties for not having health insurance
Makes about as much sense as the government bailout of the auto industry. "Taxpayers face heavy losses on the auto bailout." Remember how everyone was all wee-weed up about the drop in the stock market last year? Well, the Dear Leader and our "esteemed" legislature have fixed that, haven't they?
"The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out
of other people's money."
—Margaret Thatcher
How about an HONEST discussion of WHY?!!!
September 9, 2009 - 09:21 ET by Willis_Leon_JohnsonThe price of, not only healthcare, where one actually sees and is examined by a medical provider, but also the price of 'insurance' is so high.
The medical providers are required to PAY for "cya" expenses in vain attempts to bypass the frivilous lawsuits brought by ambulance chasers looking for a big payoff from the providers insurance company.
The Insurance Industry is buried under 60 years of rules, regulations, statutes, laws, and legal decisions that have been legislated from he bench.
Instead of trying to "fix" the problems that are 100% CAUSED BY GOVERNMENT, why not spend the time REMOVING all the restrictions on both entitites?
Where in the "ENUMERATED POWERS" are all these intrusions into the private sector listed?
Daily you see ads on TV stating "If you, or a friend or relative have taken this medication, or exposed to this chemical, YOU may be entitled to a portion of a large cash settlement!"
There has been no LAWSUIT FILED -YET-, the attorney firm doing the advertising is looking for names to put on the list to present to the manufacturer as leverage to push fr that "LARGE CASH SETTLEMENT" without actually having to file, or proceed, with said lawsuit.
And that settlement cost is added directly onto YOUR Prescription bill....
Yes Congress, WHY NOT EXAMINE YOUR DIRECT INVOLVEMENT?
http://gjresult.com
Stop Sunstein, kook
September 9, 2009 - 09:22 ET by 10ksnookerSenate vote today ... Call your Senator to vote NO!!! on this all around Obama kook, unless you wants rats to sue you for killing on of their kids.
"We ought to ban hunting"
- Cass Sunstein, in a 2007 speech at Harvard University
Watch Video
"[A]lmost all gun control legislation is
constitutionally fine. And if the Court is right,
then fundamentalism does not justify the view
that the Second Amendment protects an
individual right to bear arms. "
- Cass Sunstein, writing in his book, "Radicals in Robes"
Read full text
"Animals should be permitted to bring suit,
with human beings as their representatives …"
- 2004 book Animal Rights: Current Debates and New Directions
Read full text
"[Humans’] willingness to subject animals to
unjustified suffering will be seen … as a form
of unconscionable barbarity… morally akin to
slavery and the mass extermination of human
beings."
- Cass Sunstein, in a 2007 speech at Harvard University
Watch video
"[T]here should be extensive regulation of the
use of animals in entertainment, in scientific
experiments, and in agriculture."
- Cass Sunstein, “The Rights of Animals: A Very Short Primer,”
August 2002.
Read full text
"A system of limitless individual choices, with
respect to communications, is not necessarily
in the interest of citizenship and
self-government."
-Cass Sunstein, arguing for a Fairness Doctrine for the
Internet in his book, Republic.com 2.0 (page 137).
Read full text
<a href="http://stopsunstein.com/">StopSunstein.com</a>
Write your Senators
September 9, 2009 - 10:07 ET by ricklailHere's a link that allows you to write both your Senators on Susstein. There is a letter that you can send or you can enter your own text. This particular one deals only with hunting and the 2nd Admendment. Feel free to add anything else about this kook as was linked to above.
Semper suprene nitens
OBAMACARE: If it ain't good enough for my Congressman then it ain't good enough for me.
A quick cure.....
September 9, 2009 - 15:32 ET by pantrymanSunstein and Jones....go somewhere - a place of their choosing - sit down and quietly bleed to death.
I just watched 2 times, NatGeo's presentation of "Inside 9/11", and re-witnessed the horror of that attack. The anguish of survivors, friends and family, is heartbreaking.
For some piece of crap like Jones to say we deserved that puts me over the edge for any kindness and mercy for him..."for to him who has shown no mercy, no mercy will be shown.".
From what I understand, its
September 9, 2009 - 09:33 ET by SnappyFrom what I understand, its not just a mandatory insurance clause. Its a mandatory insurance clause of the right kind of insurance policy.
Meaning, (and this is just me seeing down the road) that the only type of plan that will satisfy and get you out of a fine will ultimatly be the government plan. As it will most likely be made impossible for private industry to comply with whatever regulations are imposed, either on them...or on the consumer to comply "non-fine".
Total power and control
September 9, 2009 - 09:49 ET by UnsaneAll roads lead to total government babying as far as these clowns go. They simply will not be happy until they are in complete, total, micromanaging control of everyone's lives in this country, even going so far as to know when every sparrow falls from the tree (h/t to The Bard).
"CONSUMED DEMOCRACY RETURNS A SOCIALIST REGIME" - Slayer, "Fictional Reality", from Divine Intervention (1994)
"Watch the sparrow
September 9, 2009 - 10:52 ET by Scuba Dude"Watch the sparrow falling
Gives new meaning to it all
If not today nor yet tomorrow then some other day"
Pull Me Under by Dream Theater.
Sorry Unsane, I had to do it.
The Obama Administration: THE most fiscally irresponsible Administration EVER
Obviously, this is not a
September 9, 2009 - 09:33 ET by celatorObviously, this is not a lesson in economic logic and was never meant to be. It's lesson in power. It's filed under, "You citizen slobs do what we tell you to do or we'll take your money. You'll soon learn who is in charge here."
No more complicated than that.
No citizen's right to life, liberty, pursuit of happiness, or property is safe as long as Obama is President of the United States.
They
September 9, 2009 - 09:43 ET by jessieHThey can fine me till they are blue in the face. I will not pay it. I flat refuse to let them control me. They can lock me up & throw away the key. I will have free healthcare in jail.
That darn Constitution...
September 9, 2009 - 09:45 ET by Meredith1966Well, I've done it now. I got out my handy copy of the Constitution of the United States of America (kindly provided by The Cato Institute) and, after reading it several times, am baffled by my inability to find the phrase, clause, or other meaningful language that gives Congress or the Judiciary or the Executive the power to fine me for not having health insurance. Just haven't seen it. Had LASIK and everything, and still I can't find that passage.
Dear Leader, will you please direct me to it since I can't find it myself? I mean, after all, you are the President of the United States, and ought to have a vastly superior working knowledge of the Constitution than me, a simpleton from East Texas. I can't find the appropriate passage, so perhaps you'll highlight it for me and other Americans in tonight's speech.
"The words of a President have an enormous weight and ought not to be used indiscriminately." - Calvin Coolidge
(sarcasm on)
September 9, 2009 - 09:52 ET by UnsaneSimple, you stupid peasant. You flip on a UV light around the United States Constitution and you will find that it is infinitely longer and gives the government infinitely more power than you dare dream. Now, you shut up and do what the government tells you, because YOU work for THEM.
(sarcasm off)
"CONSUMED DEMOCRACY RETURNS A SOCIALIST REGIME" - Slayer, "Fictional Reality", from Divine Intervention (1994)
another nick movie?
September 9, 2009 - 09:55 ET by jon_torlinSounds like another sequel to National Treasure!
Ugh...if I didn't like the other actors, I wouldn't have watched them.
-Jon
If Baucus wants $950 from me, then he is going to...
September 9, 2009 - 09:57 ET by R D Helm...have to send people with guns to my home in an effort to try and collect it by force.
-And he still isn't going to get it.
-Dave
Even when the government tries to kiss you, it is just a prelude to a good screwing. -Neal Boortz
I don't understand
September 9, 2009 - 09:58 ET by ricklailAccording to the Constitution all bills raising revenue must be orginated in the House. A fine, even though politicans don't see it that way, is a way of raising revenue.
SECTION 7
All bills for raising Revenue shall originate in the House of Representatives; but the Senate may propose or concur with Amendments as on other Bills.
The bill to fine those that do not buy health insurance is from the Senate. IMO this is unconstitutional.
Semper suprene nitens
OBAMACARE: If it ain't good enough for my Congressman then it ain't good enough for me.
if you differ from the "O" pinion...
September 9, 2009 - 11:55 ET by SouthJersey1953Haven't you figured it out yet? YOUR opinion does not matter; even if your opinion is based on facts. You MUST follow the direction of Der Leader.
"Maybe if we keep our heads buried in the sand, this will blow over" - The Congressional Republicans
If, theoretically, every
September 9, 2009 - 13:04 ET by celatorIf, theoretically, every citizen in the United States were to sign a petition denouncing Obama HealthCare, it would have absolutely no impact on Obama and Pelosi. They are completely tone deaf to what people want or say. This is not about the health of Americans. It's about power.
No citizen's right to life, liberty, pursuit of happiness, or property is safe as long as Obama is President of the United States.
My first thought
September 9, 2009 - 10:15 ET by StarAZGreat--my kid is unemployed, my biz is in the toitie and now I will have to find some way to pay a fine for my 28-yr-old bec she can't afford insurance and works for minimum wage for small cos that don't offer insurance? Nifty-keen. I had ins for her all through age 18...then she would not pay half of the $100 premium (then) and didn't value it, so we let it go. It hardly paid for anything anyhow--we had a fire, the paramedics insisted she take an uncovered $800 ride to the ER, the charges there for 15 mins on oxygen were awful and she ended up owing $400 (total $1200)--which I paid, since I was concerned about her credit rating then. Now--we don't even think about those anymore.
'the man in the Whitehouse'
September 9, 2009 - 10:57 ET by vrwc13...he has tried his best to "change" our lives...mostly what he has achieved is turning our country upside-down from capitalism to socialism, from him serving us to us being his servant...
So what's in a date? Today as he gives us his address it's 09/09/09 or 9/9/9...in keeping with his upside-down effect, todays date of 9/9/9 becomes 6/6/6! How fitting...
v
...so that no one can buy or sell unless he has the mark, that is, the name of the beast or the number of its name. This calls for wisdom: let the one who has understanding calculate the number of the beast, for it is the number of a man, and his number is 666. - Revelation 13:17-18
thought it was something else
September 9, 2009 - 11:06 ET by jon_torlinI always thought it was a mistranslation and the number was actually 616.
But you are right to point out that anything and everything he says has a different meaning when acted upon.
In Islam, this practice of saying one thing and doing another by a Muslim is called Hudna (might have spelling wrong), it's where you can lie to an infidel and not be penalized for it as long as you get what you want.
-Jon
Hudna is correct...it is
September 9, 2009 - 11:35 ET by vrwc13Hudna is correct...it is really used more to declare a truce or temporary peace, so that one can re-build and return later to conquer....
"...the 10-year truce made by the prophet Muhammad in A.D. 628 with the Arabian tribe of Quraysh. The Islamic forces used the peace to become stronger over a couple of years, then defeated the Quraysh tribe."
v
...wait and see if the current administration does in effect use this method for it's policies that fail initially!
unemployment rate
September 9, 2009 - 11:58 ET by jon_torlinI think the best example of this is where he said if the stimulus doesn't get passed, unemployment will go to 8%.
-Jon
3800 bucks
September 9, 2009 - 12:02 ET by katainkentall those mid-20's people who skate with no insurance are going to be rather tweaked about this.
The bill is going for markup and they are attempting another cramdown. The public dislike for this has reached majority. And yet they still push.
___________________________________________
We must not let our rulers load us with perpetual debt. ~Thomas Jefferson
Coughing/sneezing into the elbow
September 9, 2009 - 12:13 ET by ricklailThese so called health experts like Sebelius have finally gone off the deep end. You can't go to a sink and wash you elbow. Because of my breathing problems I may cough up a big luggie when I cough. (Not trying to make anybody sick-just stating a fact in my situtation.) I don't want that in my elbow, I want it in my hand or hanky. My mom used to get real mad when I wiped snot on my shirt sleeve as a kid. Boy this would really get her going with snot in the elbow of the shirt.
Semper suprene nitens
OBAMACARE: If it ain't good enough for my Congressman then it ain't good enough for me.
ridiculous!
September 9, 2009 - 12:46 ET by jon_torlinThis is a perfectly good example of how this administration keeps trying to act like we, the people, don't know ANYTHING! I saw that same thing with Sebelius, just like Mr. Soetoro telling us to wash our hands with anti-bacterial soap, oh gee, oh my, whatever will I do without thse fine folks telling me how to live!
When will they make a training video of how to wipe your butt with one piece of toilet paper?
-Jon
well
September 9, 2009 - 18:05 ET by Willis_Leon_JohnsonJust make sure that yr wearing you jimmy carter sweater.....
http://gjresult.com
Elbonnex®
September 9, 2009 - 16:41 ET by SickofLibsIf only I had some venture capital, I'd be rolling out my new Elbow Snotrags, 'Elbonnex®'
Fining people won't reduce healthcare costs...
September 9, 2009 - 13:05 ET by PrairieSkyand Obama and Co., know it...What it will do is intimidate and scare people into buying health insurance. This is a form of blackmail by the US government..."Do what we tell you, or else."
I just hope that tonight people won't make the same mistake they did during last year's campaign and fall for O's phony "charm offensive" again. There is so much at stake here...It is huge, and I just pray that people aren't "charmed" into submission.
"The problem is not that people are taxed too little...the problem is that government spends too much." ~President Ronald Reagan
Center for American Progress immediately snatches up Van Jones
September 9, 2009 - 13:36 ET by Dee BunkCenter for American Progress reveals its far left agenda by immediately snatching up Van Jones. Story Here
CAP
September 9, 2009 - 13:39 ET by katainkentaccording to Harper Collins bio for Van Jones - has been a senior fellow for CAP for awhile now. (since the release of his book, I'd presume) Apparently he's getting his job back?
___________________________________________
We must not let our rulers load us with perpetual debt. ~Thomas Jefferson
Holding Tank
September 9, 2009 - 13:39 ET by FeynmanFanEvidently the Center for American Progress is the holding tank for people like Jones until they can work their way back into the government.
"I support the President but not his policies" - Blonde
~Our tax dollars paying to move terrorists to the US
September 9, 2009 - 13:37 ET by choselife3xCheck it out.
That high-pitched scream you hear is the troll under my 4" spiked heel.
BIG LAW needs the public option...
September 9, 2009 - 14:05 ET by Jack BauerSomething has to be done to cut legal fees that are threatening to bankrupt America. Millions of Americans have no access to lawyers because of the ever rising costs.
You know what people need? Government run Legal Firms.
They need to be called something catchy...
Oh I know, how about the legal "public option"?
Now this public option will offer more choice and competition to the monopolistic BIG LAW whose costs are spiralling out of control.
Oh hang on -- that's already in place.
The jails are full of folks represented by government defenders.
Okay -- how about importing a few million ILLEGAL LAWYERS. Once they enter the law pool, consumer costs will tumble as lawyers wages are driven down to $12 an hour.
What a boon to the US economy.
Watching Obama's speech?
September 9, 2009 - 14:55 ET by ricklailThe folks over at Flopping Aces have publish some subtitles for the speech by the One tonight. Cut and tape at the bottom of your screen.
Semper suprene nitens
OBAMACARE: If it ain't good enough for my Congressman then it ain't good enough for me.
second verse, same as the first!
September 9, 2009 - 15:08 ET by katainkentnothing but reruns on tonight.
___________________________________________
We must not let our rulers load us with perpetual debt. ~Thomas Jefferson
Man v Wild on Discovery
September 9, 2009 - 16:33 ET by ricklailBear tries to survive in west Texas. Watching Bear Gyrils eat a rattlesanke is better than Obama. Biography is on Animal House. History International is on Patton's conquest of Sicily.
Semper suprene nitens
OBAMACARE: If it ain't good enough for my Congressman then it ain't good enough for me.
I got three Flag Football games
September 9, 2009 - 16:41 ET by Airforce_5_Oto call here on the base tonight. Got to earn some Christmas money.
Beats the Bamster hands down.
Liberalism: The haunting feeling that someone, somewhere, can help themselves.
the excerpts are out
September 9, 2009 - 17:21 ET by katainkentjust starting to peruse it myself. Its ... well... I'll let people draw their own conclusions.
Thought I'd share.
___________________________________________
We must not let our rulers load us with perpetual debt. ~Thomas Jefferson
any chance of
September 9, 2009 - 18:06 ET by Willis_Leon_Johnsongetting to watch a rattlesnake eat an obama?
I have a feeling that his going to feel snakebit after the next elections.
http://gjresult.com
slimy politician alert
September 9, 2009 - 15:14 ET by candanceLet's get this all out there before lefties use it to smear us. Let me be the first to go on record saying this slime ball does NOT represent me as a conservative, and he should be drummed out of office at once.
No more dirt bag politicians - on either side!! Throw the bums out!!
Condemnation, and why I am not impressed by term limits
September 9, 2009 - 15:22 ET by UnsaneWhat an idiot!!! I found out something very interesting when visiting Sacramento and its Capitol. Since 1990, CA has had term limits on its state offices.
Wow, some good term limits have done CA...
"CONSUMED DEMOCRACY RETURNS A SOCIALIST REGIME" - Slayer, "Fictional Reality", from Divine Intervention (1994)
candance
September 9, 2009 - 15:24 ET by katainkentif I may point out a redundancy in your header... ;)
Mike will need to update his favorite quotes. It's definately time to hit the reset button.
___________________________________________
We must not let our rulers load us with perpetual debt. ~Thomas Jefferson
→ Salute!
September 9, 2009 - 16:31 ET by Cool ArrowThe New York Times has got to be choking on this one.
Britisn soldier killed during rescue of NYT Reporter.
Van Jones is a Quitter - FS
CA... I hate to say this,
September 9, 2009 - 16:48 ET by bigtimerCA...
I hate to say this, but I really feel the majority of the employees of the NYTs could care less, let even know what being grateful, or showing real gratitude really means...let alone sacrifice.
The last full measure.
'Go Green...Recycle Congress'
Lovely...just heard Cass
September 9, 2009 - 16:53 ET by bigtimerLovely...just heard Cass Sustein passed 63/35 on cloture vote.
Lovely little RINOs had to have voted for this enemy within's confirmation...another one in like Flynn.
Makes me ill.
'Go Green...Recycle Congress'
bt -
September 9, 2009 - 16:56 ET by FeynmanFanI don't think they've actually voted on him yet. They just voted to stop the debate about him so they could vote.
"I support the President but not his policies" - Blonde
Hi FF... That is why I
September 9, 2009 - 17:03 ET by bigtimerHi FF...
That is why I said Cloture vote...usually the same vote follows when they take the final one...sure hope I'm wrong though in this case.
I just heard the news on Beck when I got done working when I walked in, haven't been able to watch the Senate today.
'Go Green...Recycle Congress'
Baucus' bill is total BS. It's a stealth tax increase from Hell
September 9, 2009 - 17:34 ET by R D Helmhttp://finance.senat...
-Dave
Even when the government tries to kiss you, it is just a prelude to a good screwing. -Neal Boortz
That it is Dave...it is one
September 9, 2009 - 17:42 ET by bigtimerThat it is Dave...it is one of the most despicable POS that will force insurance companies to fold the likes of which I haven't seen yet..let alone force deductibles to rise at an unprecedented rate, of course that is the idea, now isn't it...
Let alone the mandatory fee a person would get for not joining an option blah blah blah...3,800...
I've been furious about this since yesterday, posted some about it then.
I have despised this so-called man for so many years I don't want to count, and the idiots, yes idiots in this state keep voting for him.
I will be calling next week sometime when I have the time, more than one place, his state office and the DC office, let alone hoping I have the time to write a letter to the paper, if it gets published...the local paper is so liberal here it's pathetic.
Nevertheless...there is the internet....thank goodness.
Hope others call the switchboard as well ...voicing their opinion when they get the time.
'Go Green...Recycle Congress'
Question for bigtimer
September 9, 2009 - 18:16 ET by Unsanebigtimer, PLEASE explain to me why people in MT - a state I have been to and otherwise hold in high regard - keep voting for this clown?
And can you guys please send him packing next time he's up for election?
"CONSUMED DEMOCRACY RETURNS A SOCIALIST REGIME" - Slayer, "Fictional Reality", from Divine Intervention (1994)