Open Thread

By NB Staff (Bio | Archive)
August 17, 2009 - 08:44 ET

For general discussion and debate. Possible talking point: is the public option REALLY out?

Racing to regain control of the health-care debate, two top administration officials signaled Sunday that the White House may be willing to jettison a controversial government-run insurance plan favored by liberals. As President Obama finishes a western swing intended to bolster support for his signature policy initiative, Health and Human Services Secretary Kathleen Sebelius opened the door to a compromise on a public option, saying it is "not the essential element" of comprehensive reform. White House press secretary Robert Gibbs said on CBS's "Face the Nation" that Obama "will be satisfied" if the private insurance market has "choice and competition."

Is this the floating of a serious trial balloon, or a misdirection? Where is this legislation heading?

Read comments Free email alerts Take action

Comments Policy

All comments are owned by whoever posted them and are subject to our terms of use. They should not be assumed to represent the views of NewsBusters.

PUB OPTION ALIVE BUT ON LIFE SUPPORT SOOO

August 17, 2009 - 08:51 ET by reelman46

DEBATE STRATEGY FOR HEALTH CARE

Simply continue to bring these facts before the voters-cameras week after week:

1…The gov-meant is broke!
2…The gov-meant Medical programs… are broke!

3…Single payer gov-meant… needs no profit
4…Congress and federal employees… are exempt

5…Illegal aliens… cannot be covered
6…Canada and Britain… should tell congress something

7…Tort reform, portability and multi-state Plans… must be addressed 1st in a separate bill

The nationalized health care supporters cannot refute these seven
points of fact head on as they should be able to if the argument was
valid and good for America.

Voters supporting reasonable reform must not get distracted by
deliberate democrat side issues and smears of people…its all they have
so expect more of the same.
Distorting with baloney answers, using screened audiences, canceling
meetings with your voters and stonewalling is not acceptable.
Facts matter as we see from the poll changes as they are revealed to voters. Stay on target.

http://conservablogs...

Doug Schexnayder, Ph.D. (theconservativecrawfish)

Number 8.

August 17, 2009 - 08:59 ET by mattm

The people Obama refers to as "Opponents of Reform" have been suggesting common sense reform for at least 25 years. Tort reform, MSAs, encouraged competition, etc.

The REAL opponents of reform are the Democrats.

I don't think the leftists

August 17, 2009 - 08:55 ET by motherbelt

I don't think the leftists will let him get away with dumping the public option. He is probably saying one thing publicly, and behind the scenes promising that he will find a way to get it back in there once he gets something passed.

Agreed

August 17, 2009 - 09:34 ET by KC Mulville

Back in January, if you asked what would be the domestic policy agenda of the Obama presidency, they'd answer with a triad:

energy (i.e., cap-and-trade),
healthcare (i.e., public option), and
education (still to come).

They thought the public option would be the magic bullet for healthcare. The public option was how they were going to cover all those 47 million uninsured people, which was the foundation of their healthcare argument in the first place. Let's face it, without the public option, their reform is just a little minor tinkering.

Add it up. Cap-n'-trade is in trouble, the public option is in trouble, and the public is in no mood for a giant education package. On foreign policy, they're either following Bush's program or getting no better results. If he's no different than Bush on foreign policy, and his domestic agenda is in the toilet ... what could he possibly sell in 2012 as a reason to vote for him?

Then again, Obama loves to throw things under the bus. Maybe he's throwing the public option under the bus, just out of habit.

Obama = Four More Years of Bush

August 17, 2009 - 11:53 ET by DJEddle

If his domestic agenda is only a bit worse than Bush's and he is practically following the same foreign policies as Bush was, then what was all of this talk about McCain being four more years of Bush? Obama is exactly that, only far less competent.

He will have absolutely nothing to sell in 2012 except some new rhetoric. But the "independents" hopefully will not fall for it again. As far as the rest of them go...Obama is still half black, an Ivy-League guy, and a statist, so they'll never break from him.

Rational Liberty: Where Reason and Government Collide - The best website ever!

He's gonna push them to get

August 17, 2009 - 19:10 ET by Dan Diego

He's gonna push them to get it through both houses any way possible (Rahm) from behind the scenes while denying he ever supported it. Of course he'd sign the bill if Congress delivers, will of the people, blah, blah...

The AP is trying to dismiss

August 17, 2009 - 08:55 ET by mattm

The AP is trying to dismiss the Obama birthplace controversy by comparing it to the controversy over whether Chester Arthur was born in Vermont or not.

The lengths to which these leftist organs go to marginalize anyone (i.e. "birthers") who doesn't kiss Obama's ring is amazing. One would think "journalists" would want to know why we've only seen a "certification of live birth" - which is for people born outside of the U.S. and have not seen the real deal.

I'll get over it the minute I see the proof.

P.S. This site is operating poorly - or it's my computer.....

It's all about getting the camel's nose into the tent

August 17, 2009 - 09:00 ET by JohnMcGrew

The “public option” is the ultimate goal. But they also realize that the majority of Americans still know better. So they must continue the incrementalism that they’ve been practicing for the last 40 years.

So they won’t get the “public option” this time around, as hoped. But they will still strive for it by attacking capitalism one small cut at a time. They will add mandates that will eventually make my existing private coverage unaffordable. They will add taxes and regulation upon my insurance carriers and doctors to make providing my insurance and care so cumbersome and unprofitable that they will eventually quit.

The plan will continue to be to mess up the private system to the point where the private marketplace will slowly, but finally dissapear, and the public will have no choice but to demand the “public option”out of sheer desperation. At that point, most of us will become slaves to the federal government, just like the Europeans are.

That is the plan, and the goal.

And don't forget the

August 17, 2009 - 09:04 ET by motherbelt

And don't forget the possibility of bankrupting private carriers with discrimination lawsuits for anything they won't cover, or for adding surcharges on those with pre-existing conditions etc.

And when government has control of it all, does anyone think that a lawsuit will be possible for anything they won't cover?

Intentions Count

August 17, 2009 - 09:10 ET by Bluegill

We know the goal, they will just change the words but not the goal of control. This is scariest for the elderly since the Dems' plans for socialism won't come close to working while the elderly are collecting SS, and having expensive medical treatments.

No the Public option isn't out

August 17, 2009 - 09:05 ET by Dee Bunk

If anything they'll go more stealth by putting it in the with the exchanges. On FNC the talk was about creating a non profit exchange. There is no reason to do that, other than to sneak in govt control. This so called non profit would end up being like Freddie and Fannie and run by a bunch of career politicians. Legislation would be enacted to ensure it's viability and if that didn't work more and more government funding would be handed over.

There are all ready non profit insurance companies out there the biggest and most successful being Blue Cross/Blue Shield, we don't need a government created one.

I agree and late last night

August 17, 2009 - 09:28 ET by Gat New York

I agree and late last night the White House already distanced themselves from the comments by Democrats yesterday. I think they were seeking to diffuse the growing animosity and wait till Congress was back in session. At that point they will ram through legislation they want and which will give Democrats a year to explain to the American public.

exactly GAT - they'll just repackage under a different name

August 17, 2009 - 09:58 ET by Dee Bunk

whether it's non-profit exchange, non-profit co-op or something else. I wouldn't even be surprised if they just changed public option to "private non-profit" and kept all the details the same. Dems are all about deceiving. They can't be honest about what they do cause it's not supported.

BCBS is non-profit? I

August 17, 2009 - 16:25 ET by ckc1227

BCBS is non-profit? I didn't know that.

We had a guy in our area last week discussing health insurance, and he was complaining that BCBS had a monopoly in our state, which is nonsense.

They meant--

August 17, 2009 - 17:36 ET by misterbill

that Bernie Madoff was non profit.

Guillain-Barre AGAIN!

August 17, 2009 - 09:10 ET by motherbelt

Same $h!t, different year!

We had this same problem in the 1970's....they gave millions of people Swine Flu shots and then the G-B was connected to the vaccine.

They've had 30-plus years and all they've got is the same vaccine they had problems with before????

Good ever-loving grief!!

Yeah, people will be really lining up for those shots, now that they know this ahead of time, unlike before!

WH public option ploy: A trial balloon, not a white flag

August 17, 2009 - 09:08 ET by StewartIII

White House public option ploy: A trial balloon, not a white flag http://michellemalki...

obamanation healthcare

August 17, 2009 - 09:14 ET by east tennessee john

Let me see if I got this straight. Healthcare policy Czars or Presidential advisers appointed with no lines of accountability to anyone but the President are going to be the final arbiters, along with the attendant bureaucracy, of aloocating healthcare resources, based upon some undisclosed, unexamined, with no imput from anyone, philosophy of the value of life, that may or may not reflect the belief systems of the people it's going to be imposed upon. Is that about right? I realize there is a ruling elite in this country, heavily populated by elitists, but its LEGITIMACY is based upon acceptance via elections. Being elected, or even appointed by a Prsident in no way confers upon you the right or authority to establish ANY so called "quality of life" value matrix, since you are just another mere human being and who are you to assess value of my life, PARTICULARLY TO THE STATE? If so, then the STATE shouldn't be involved in healthcare. Besides, the financial resources used to pay for it AREN'T THE STATE'S. At best, the STATE is merely a conduit. This action of the elites goes beyond their normal arrogance. It shows nothing but contempt and conceit towards us and nothing more than megalmania in them. Their premise is that the STATE can allocate resources better than a competitve market. What evidence of this exists anywhere? If I'm anywhere near right, Why do they even wonder why we're angry? Their inability to understand is further evidence of the disconnect. Also, on what basis will private insureres "compete" with the public sector? Will the public sector be subject to mandates, the same taxes, the same sale restrictions? If not, they may "compete", as anti-market believers define it, but it won't be on a level playing field.

That about covers it

August 17, 2009 - 09:40 ET by Blonde

The other thing that is disturbing, and which they are also covering up, is that all private plans are subject to "audit", and if the DHS decides the plan doesn't meet some unspecified standard, it's out, and you'll be forced into the public plan. All to be decided later, naturally.

I hope he fails, too.

The Public Option's Not Out

August 17, 2009 - 09:10 ET by FeynmanFan

The Dems have just entered the "bob-and-weave" stage of the fight.

My question would be

August 17, 2009 - 09:21 ET by ricklail

What guarantee do we have that Congress won't include in a bill or Obama won't issue a signing statement giving an activist "czar" far ranging powers and incrementally implement such things as a public option or single payer?

Semper suprene nitens

OBAMACARE: If it ain't good enough for my Congressman then it ain't good enough for me.

What guarantee do we

August 17, 2009 - 10:20 ET by motherbelt

What guarantee do we have? None whatsoever.

In fact, I would say that the probablility of it happening approaches John McLaughlin's "metaphysical certitude."

Rick,

August 17, 2009 - 13:57 ET by UpNorth

exactly right. Obie can appoint a "health czar" and mandate, without legislation, that a "public option" or whatever he wants to call it, has to be offered. Or, they'll just add a public option/single payer in a 3a.m. conference, or info dump for whatever they've written. The government proved, with Cap and Tax, that they can not be trusted. And, I'll bet that they still haven't read the house version of healthcare, and won't.

Re 3am

August 17, 2009 - 15:08 ET by slickwillie2001

Right; so much in Obamacare is open to definition and enforcement by committees that the Bamster administration will put together. Mike Huckabee was right when he said that HR3200 ws just an empty framework. A better description might be 'blank check'. We have to remember that with the democratics this is as much about wealth redistribution as it is about health care.

HR3200 at present says that 'community organizations' will be covered by Obamacare and they will be subsidized. Does that mean they get a 10% discount or that they get it for free? Who knows? It's undefined. A committee will set the government health insurance premium rates. Will blacks, hispanics and other favored minorities pay less than the rest of us? Who knows? Why is there an 'Office of Minority Health' in HR3200? What will they do? Who knows? Will people on welfare get it for free? Probably. Is this an enormous expansion of the welfare state? Probably.

It's a blank check for everything the socialists have wanted for decades.

A Diversion Only

August 17, 2009 - 09:35 ET by JustAl

They are already backing away:

http://politics.theatlantic.com/2009/08/administration_official_sebelius_misspoke.php

From your link:

August 17, 2009 - 10:23 ET by motherbelt

From your link:

"Nothing has changed," she said. "The President has always said....

The language of the flip-flop.

mis-spoke - the latest code word for LIE from Gibby's lips to

August 17, 2009 - 19:03 ET by Cape Conservative

our ears ;-)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MQ_tAe87ELo

Here's an interesting video on Single Payer System ;-)

This comment comes from a proud Tea Party attendee, otherwise designated by Homeland Security as a Domestic Right Wing Terrorist! It is no dishonor to be in a minority in the cause of liberty and virtue ~ Sam Adams

The Leftists' Obsessive Devotion

August 17, 2009 - 09:48 ET by Unsane

Is the "public option" dead? Please. The Dems/Statists will not rest until the government is babying everyone in America. The idea of turning the government into a massive nanny/babysitter via "free" health care (as well as allowing the government to completely micromanage all life in America) has been an obsessive devotion for statists and Democrats for decades now and it won't be gotten rid of easily.

People need to remain awake and look out for these jokers. I don't care what is said. I do care about what is done and what has been done and attempted in the past. Look at the whole government "co-op" thing and tell me if that doesn't look like the "public option" by stealth.

Why are the following so difficult?

1) If you spend hours of life crying painful tears of guilt into your pillow every single night over people who don't have health insurance, start a charity. Or give charitable contributions to the hospital of your choice to help the truly destitute.

2) Tort reform.

3) Medical saving accounts.

4) A cultural change where people use health insurance for catastrophes. Pay for the sniffles and paper cuts out of your own pocket or through an MSA; pay for cancer diagnoses and traffic accidents with health insurance.

5) Why do employers provide health insurance anyway for reasons other than historical ones? World War II ended in 1945...

Those are among some other ideas I have...

"CONSUMED DEMOCRACY RETURNS A SOCIALIST REGIME" - Slayer, "Fictional Reality", from Divine Intervention (1994)

EXCELLENT POINTS, unsane! I especially like #4! But then

August 17, 2009 - 19:09 ET by Cape Conservative

again, TORT REFORM should be at the top of anyone's list. If the president would allow Americans to begin a medical savings account, totally deductible off their income tax, that would NOT cost the government (i.e., you and me) and everyone could take care of their own expenses. I know when I was working, I always used my health savings account for my glasses and dental work and it was a big savings. ONCE AGAIN, TAKING PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY!!!

Red Herring

August 17, 2009 - 09:50 ET by BKeyser

I think this is an attempt to tone down the Town Hall opposition, nothing more. Get this out on Sunday morning when the White House believes many Seniors are watching the broadcast news talking-head shows. They've already started walking it back; I'm sure Gibbs will continue that theme later today.

The Camel's Nose...

August 17, 2009 - 09:54 ET by Meredith1966

The camel's nose in the tent is a good analogy for how the 'public option' aspect of Obama's plan won't be left out of the package. They'll find a way to back-door it into whatever bill finally makes it's way through Congress. It won't be called a public option, but you can bet that all the elements of a public option will either be in place or will, through incrementalism, be set up to kick in at some point in the future so that, in the end, the federal government will be fully in charge of health care service delivery. His backing off (supposedly) is nothing more than a diversion intended to catch his opponents napping--socialized medicine is still the goal, and will always be the goal, no doubt about it. They've been trying to do this since FDR was president, and they're not going to abandon the dream now that they have a full-fledged socialist in the White House. Smoke and mirrors time is upon us...

"The words of a President have an enormous weight and ought not to be used indiscriminately." - Calvin Coolidge

What? Socialists giving up their precious government takeover?

August 17, 2009 - 10:16 ET by R D Helm

Yeah, sure they are.

They will pull something underhanded to try and get it by us.

Count on it.

-Dave

Been Flagged yet? If not, try harder.

Just as they are giving up killing the Fairness Doctrine - NOT!

August 17, 2009 - 19:11 ET by Cape Conservative

In answer to your question, YES! Guess it didn't take too much to get your name on Axelrod's 'A list' after all ;-)

Co-op Trojan Horse

August 17, 2009 - 10:37 ET by slickwillie2001

Beware the co-op trojan horse. I think we pretty much agree that's what it is, but the rest of America has to catch on quickly. The democratics will rename some of the grislier aspects of Obamacare and when Congress starts up there will be a push to pass it quickly before the folks learn what is in it. Anything they put together has to be passed quickly before we can read it. More:

Co-Ops are the Public Option by Another Name: http://www.redstate.com

POSTS OF THE DAY!

August 17, 2009 - 10:51 ET by reelman46

H-CARE POSTS OF THE DAY!

Reply 18 - Posted by: rocket scientist, 8/16/2009

Saying the public now senses that Øbama has been less than
straightforward with them, is an understatement. This clown lies
through his teeth. He has broken every single campaign promise he ever
made. The real kicker is when he promised there would be 5 days to
discuss every Bill put before Congress, then he rammed through a
thousand-something-page stimulus Bill and gave Congress less than 24
hours to read it and vote on it. Then the crook-clown Øbama takes a
leisurely 4-day weekend to go on another vacation to Chi-town and signs
the Bill on a Tuesday?
Then to add insult to injury, his so-called stimulus Bill that cost
nearly $800 billion and if we passed it RIGHT NOW unemployment would
not go above 8 percent?
Hello? Would you buy a used car from this man? It will have liquid glass poured into the engine if you did.

Reply 19 - Posted by: MsCharlotteVale, 8/17/2009

Just you wait until people of color (anyone other than white
Westerner) are denied medical treatment because of their age or status
or orientation (whatever). Everything old is new again, anyone?
Everyone in America is guaranteed medical care by the federal govt so
we need to keep reminding each other: This is not about healthcare,
it’s about ultimate control of our lives.

lucianne.com Aug 17, 2009

http://conservablogs...

Doug Schexnayder, Ph.D. (theconservativecrawfish)

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe I read $8 BILLION

August 17, 2009 - 19:17 ET by Cape Conservative

was needed immediately to STAFF the bailout plan???? That's just for starters...all I can see is that BIG FAT HOG labeled GOVERNMENT getting BIGGER AND FATTER!!!!!!!

Slick

August 17, 2009 - 11:09 ET by ricklail

Here is an article from the American Thinker along the same line.

Semper suprene nitens

OBAMACARE: If it ain't good enough for my Congressman then it ain't good enough for me.

Co-ops: Created by the

August 17, 2009 - 16:16 ET by ckc1227

Co-ops: Created by the government, funded by the government, run by the government. Need I say more?

Beating of Milwaukee Mayor

August 17, 2009 - 11:09 ET by QueenMum

So far, I haven't been able to find a photo of the "alleged" perp. Hm. Instead the Tribune decides to post a photo of the mayor's brother.

Edited to add: Same photos in the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel.

"The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out
of other people's money."

—Margaret Thatcher

Dhimmitude

August 17, 2009 - 11:16 ET by slickwillie2001

Public swimming pools in the UK forcing non-muslims to dress like muslims! The UK is lost folks. France and a few other countries in Europe will fall shortly after the UK goes. I hope our military has plans to get the nuclear weapons out of the UK before the final takeover.

Public Swimming Pools Enforce Muslim Dress Code on Non-Muslims: http://joshuapundit.blogspot.com

slick - thanks for the link to the Muslim bathing suit/UK issue

August 17, 2009 - 19:23 ET by Cape Conservative

I fear it will be next on 'the one's' to-do list! After all, we are NOT a Christian nation according to BHO! That's odd...I thought our founding fathers said we were!!!!!!

Just one more tiny step toward fulfilling his 'total reformation of the United States' campaign promise.

August 17, 2009 - 11:25 ET by jessieH

But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for the future security.

August 17, 2009 - 11:37 ET by jessieH

The govt. can not tax the rich more than the rest. " The Congress shall have the power to lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and the general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be UNIFORM throughout the United States;" Taxing the rich more is not uniform.

August 17, 2009 - 11:46 ET by jessieH

It is the duty of congress to call forth the militia to execute the laws of the union, and to repel invasions. Is the congress doing it's job? have they called up the militia to stop the invasion of illegals? NO! They have not. They ignor the laws of this Union.

August 17, 2009 - 11:52 ET by jessieH

"The President, Vice President and all civil Officers of the United States, shall be removed from Office on Impeachment for, and Convicted of, Treason, Bribery, or other high Crimes and Misdemeaners."

suckers

August 17, 2009 - 12:01 ET by candance

For the 62 people who voted in the poll that the public option was gone, I'd just like to offer a big fat "I told you so."

the 'public option' will never go away.

August 17, 2009 - 12:29 ET by Willis_Leon_Johnson

That is the sole method of ensuring that 100 percent of the American people will be DEPENENT ON THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT.

Medical records, cross mathched with voter registration will all the ruling party to weed out the opposition.

http://gjresult.com

REEEEEE-JECTED

August 17, 2009 - 13:30 ET by MrShy

This dreadful president and administration is being rejected on many fronts:

http://politicaltick...

Fifty-seven percent of those questioned in a USA Today/Gallup survey released Monday say the federal stimulus has had no effect on the economy so far, or has made things worse

When CNN has to painfully report this, you know it's getting bad. Although, no surprise that it's buried in their CNNPolitics.com section. Politics? Um, no, this is about one of Obama's first major policy decisions -- a package of government money WASTED on it's citizens in a FAILED attempt to get us out of a RECESSION.

Hmm, now let's think..... Bush passes out this stimulus package and six months later it's polled to be a complete failure. Now how, exactly, would CNN cover this? A tiny, buried link to their "politics" section?

Hmmmmmm..... Now..... let ... me ...... think ........ (barf)

EDIT: Just went back to CNN's homepage to find one more thing, and presto, that small link (among the many stacks of links) is now GONE. Giving that "little" item any attention at all didn't last long. Un-freakin'-bullievable.

Oh, but what's still there and even more prominent? The update on Sanford's "addiction to his mistress."

These f**ks.

what's more amazing, shy

August 17, 2009 - 13:41 ET by candance

I just followed that link and tried to read a few of the comments below the article. Libs are on there still doing their darndest to spin this. Their resounding theme is that polls are useless because most Americans are too stupid to know a good economy when they see one.

I always knew libs were obnoxious, but I admit to being amazed by hoq quickly they've resorted to lies and insults. They really do act like spoiled kids in preschool.

Cx2

August 17, 2009 - 13:55 ET by MrShy

Makes me ill, all of it. Again, this is MAJOR. A poll by USA Today, no less. They are doing cartwheels to avoid making this a news item.

WE WERE INUNDATED WITH POLLS DURING THE BUSH YEARS..... INUNDATED !!!!!!

P.O.S., utterly corrupt MSM. Sorry.

Hey, putting together the opening and making it simpler in how I find the ship, spot "something", then see the sub.... :)

so arrogant, it's

August 17, 2009 - 14:09 ET by bretzysdude

so arrogant, it's unbelievable:

http://www.washingtontimes.com/weblogs/watercooler/2009/aug/16/video-rep-massa-i-will-vote-against-interests-my-d/

"WE KNOW WHAT'S GOOD FOR YOU."

sounds like the senatorsK! Leave your thoughts with their

August 17, 2009 - 19:26 ET by Cape Conservative

staff and know they will be totally ignored!!!! THEY KNOW BEST!

The only time I will be happy is when the ENTIRE BILL is

August 17, 2009 - 15:33 ET by Cape Conservative

put on the back shelf waiting to be sent to the shredder!

No amount of tweaking is going to work!

If there must be something, let it be GUIDELINES ONLY and LIMIT THE PAGES TO 10, not 1,000! In easy to read and understand language...by Congress and by ALL Americans!!!!

LET THE AMERICAN SYSTEM WORK! Learn from the experience of other countries who are turning away from their failed efforts!

The total lack of success of the prior bailouts/stimulus/even cash for clunkers is proof there is NO expertise within this administration!!!

KEEP THE GOVERNMENT OUT OF HEALTH CARE!!!!

THERE IS A REASON AMERICA IS THE GREATEST COUNTRY ON EARTH, PRESIDENT OBAMA! (Even if you don't think so)

Cape~

August 17, 2009 - 15:41 ET by Georgia Girl

I hear ya. Really, my first thought was that dumping the public option may take care of the dreaded socialist aspect, we'd still have the problem of too few docs and nurses -- and rationing. So I'm guessing it would still be the elderly that will pay the most, which is just wrong.

Then I got Dick Morris' new column, talking about this very thing. If anybody wants me to, I'll post the link. I know I post his links a lot, so everybody probably thinks I head up the Dick Morris Fan Club (LOL), but I just find he explains things well -- and he is good at knowing all the tricks that can go on in Washington, so I like reading what he has to say. But instead of forcing a link upon everyone, I'll just wait to see if anybody wants me to post that link.

[Waiting...GG sits quietly waiting...waiting...]

GG - let's have the link! And don't be shy about doing so in

August 17, 2009 - 19:29 ET by Cape Conservative

the future. All anyone has to do is ignore them if they don't want to read - I just put the links in and let the chips fall where they may ;-)

Welcome Home Men!

August 17, 2009 - 15:56 ET by Carl Kolchak

Welcome home Vietnam Vets. You are great men and very valuable members of your country. We are very proud of you.

Here is a story from Ft. Campbell KY doing a welcome home for Vietnam Vets who never received a proper welcome home.

http://www.azstarnet.com/sn/fromcomments/305197.php

Wal-Mart Ditches Beck

August 17, 2009 - 16:03 ET by Leondeux

There was a lot of shouting about GEICO pulling ads from Glenn Beck last week. People, in a moment of irrational impulisivity, were claiming that they would drop their GEICO insurance and never use them again b/c of their 'bold' move to stop advertising with this rambling moron.

Now Wal-Mart follows suit. Will those of you screaming for a boycott for GEICO remain consistent and ALSO boycott Wal-Mart?

I'd be interested to see if the reaction is the same. Somehow I don't think so.

Nobody likes a smart ass

August 17, 2009 - 16:05 ET by R D Helm

Smart ass.

-Dave

Not sure I follow. It's a

August 17, 2009 - 16:11 ET by Leondeux

Not sure I follow. It's a simple question. Did you see the GEICO Thread? There were some angry people on there.

Just curious if they are as willing to forego cheap junk at Wal Mart as quickly as they are willing to boycott car insurance.

For our new elitist snob

August 17, 2009 - 20:13 ET by Unsane

"Cheap junk" at Wal-Mart? What elitist snobbery. But then, one big reason Leftists hate Wal-Mart (other than their being successful, which enrages Leftists) is their elitist snobbery.

I don't know, my work against GEICO was done years ago when I pulled the plug on them for a different reason: they charged more money, just for moving to a different state.

Would I stop shopping there? Oh I don't know...I only go there for oil and oil filters needed for me to change my own oil. And even then, that may be once or twice a year.

You should also keep in mind that while the Leftist tendencies of Wal-Mart are unknown to me - I'm sure they contribute to both political parties since government behaves as a legal protection racket anyways - the Leftist tendencies of Warren Buffett, owner of Berkshire Hathaway, who owns GEICO, are clear. (Well, to his credit, he refused to support McGovern in 1972. Limited props there.)

"CONSUMED DEMOCRACY RETURNS A SOCIALIST REGIME" - Slayer, "Fictional Reality", from Divine Intervention (1994)

I don't like wal-mart

August 17, 2009 - 20:15 ET by balboa

I don't like wal-mart because most of the time their stuff is poorly made, low quality, and a lot of the stores I've been in are not very clean. Target is much nicer, IMO.

I think it depends on the

August 17, 2009 - 20:19 ET by Free Stinker

I think it depends on the local store Bal.

In Northern NJ, Target and Wal-Mart have comparable levels of cleanliness.

Fair enough, FreeStinker.

August 17, 2009 - 20:57 ET by balboa

Fair enough, FreeStinker. That's just been my experience. My "shopping experience" has always been better at Target.

hate ta say it

August 17, 2009 - 21:18 ET by katainkent

but I agree with Balboa. Wal-Mart's service & goods are definately sub par. Target is a much better shopping experience. (That's coming from experiences on both coasts in 4 cities.)

___________________________________________
"The tax imposed under this section shall not be treated as tax" - HR 3200 (Health Care Bill) Pg. 203. Ln 14 & 15

Wal-Mart gripe

August 18, 2009 - 00:54 ET by Unsane

Just about the only complaint I have about Wal-Mart is that it seems that whenever I go to one, the parking lot is full of shopping carts. As I don't seek to have my vehicle damaged by shopping carts when I park there, this is a problem.

For the most part though the cleanliness inside is not a problem. To me it generally looks like if it got any cleaner that you could eat off the floor.

All of this being said, the fact that Leftists are constantly angry that Wal-Mart even exists is a constant source of amusement to me (as well as concern). Terrorists and dictators don't frighten Leftists - in some cases Leftists embrace them - but man, you open up a Wal-Mart in the neighborhood and their reaction is akin to one I would have if the NKPA were to invade FL from Cuba.

"CONSUMED DEMOCRACY RETURNS A SOCIALIST REGIME" - Slayer, "Fictional Reality", from Divine Intervention (1994)

Wal-Mart is all cheap

August 18, 2009 - 14:46 ET by Leondeux

Wal-Mart is all cheap junk. How does pointing that simple fact out make me a snob? I'm not mad at them for their success, I just don't shop there because the few things I've purchased (floor light, silver ware) has been worthless and broken within 2 months of purchase.

Why does my opinion make me a leftist? I prefer to spend my money on quality items. I find that these are generally found at places other than Wal-Mart. But thanks for the over the top reaction. Do you work there or something?

Leondeux, there are two kinds of smartassery here at NB

August 17, 2009 - 21:06 ET by R D Helm

The funny kind, and the trollish kind.

Sadly, yours falls squarely into the latter category.

Sorry.

-Dave

I disagree, I think it's a

August 18, 2009 - 14:49 ET by Leondeux

I disagree, I think it's a legitimate question. If you're going to boycott GEICO for pulling ads, shouldn't you also boycott the other 10 companies that pulled ads? Who cares where GEICO's advertising dollars go? All I care about is whether or not they pay my claim while giving me a decent rate.

I WILL boycott Walmart and they WILL feel my wrath

August 17, 2009 - 16:15 ET by SickofLibs

My wife will now have to go there and pick up what I need, and trust me, that's not going to be good for anybody.

I've been boycotting WalMart for a long time

August 17, 2009 - 16:15 ET by candance

About a month ago, I needed some medicine in the middle of the night. Against my better judgement I went to WalMart thinking how busy could they really be at midnight. Boy was that a mistake.

Since it had been so long since I had stepped inside one, I was struck by the bad smell and a little disturbed by the appearance of the other patrons. When I finally got to the first aid aisle, someone had spilled alcohol all over the floor, and an employee came up and fussed at me for being in the way. What I needed was on a different aisle with completely irrelevant merchandise (?) and I had to find it myself because the employee basically told me to buzz off.

As I approached the checkout, they had 2, count em, 2 cashiers but were still as busy as a Friday afternoon. The lines were backed up all the way to the clothing racks. I promptly called Kroger on my cellphone, verified that they were still open, threw the merchandise on a nearby shelf, and told all the customers around me they'd be better off at Kroger.

WalMart can pull all their advertising from every channel for all I care.

Great story Candance.

August 18, 2009 - 14:48 ET by Leondeux

Great story Candance. Sounds like the nightmare I experience every single time I go to an urban CVS. Talk about maximum inefficiency!

I boycotted Wal-Mart long ago, but it had nothing to do with their advertising. It had to do with their shoddy merchandise. I'm a fan of low prices, but I also believe in the old adage that you get what you pay for.

I already boycotted because

August 17, 2009 - 18:54 ET by bretzysdude

I already boycotted because I was laid off from them back in February. I fear that they're going to cave in to the pressure of Card Check.

Leondeux, Glenn works for Fox, GEI just shifted to other shows

August 17, 2009 - 21:22 ET by upcountrywater

So maybe Glenn can commerical free....

Reagan VS Liberalism

Sheesh, would somebody tell Matthew my monitor ain't 36" wide?

August 17, 2009 - 16:13 ET by R D Helm

LOL-After about the third or fourth comment on every thread, the display goes WAY wide and I have to scroll all the way to the street to read all the way across.

What is going on around here?

-Dave

~The street

August 17, 2009 - 16:28 ET by choselife3x

Don't forget to look both ways, babe.

Dissent: It's not just for liberals anymore.-kudzupolitics, USA Today

cl3x,

August 17, 2009 - 18:03 ET by R D Helm

LOL, I'll try, darlin' but if I get squashed, I'm going to be really mad.

-Dave

~Don't worry

August 17, 2009 - 19:17 ET by choselife3x

I'm sure you'll be at the top of Obama's waiting list. White male..Republican..gun owner..check, check, annnnnd check.

I'll write you a beautiful eulogy, Dave.You'll be lookin' down and bawlin' like a baby. Probably because you'll get a great view of all the grievin' weemonfolk's necklines, but I digress. ;-)

Dissent: It's not just for liberals anymore.-kudzupolitics, USA Today

R,

August 17, 2009 - 19:28 ET by R D Helm

Oinker to the last I will be. :-)

And even after, I hope.

-Dave

Dave...it's been like this

August 17, 2009 - 16:31 ET by bigtimer

Dave...it's been like this here and there since the Drudge crash....I hope this all gets fixed soon myself. ;-)

Obama's a Community Agitator, a walking, talking destroyer. ~ Rush Limbaugh

bt,

August 17, 2009 - 18:05 ET by R D Helm

Yeah, I tried to login through FireFox earlier today, and got a 404-Error.

LOL-I thought for a second I had been canned.

-Dave

Welcome to the club, Dave.

August 17, 2009 - 19:19 ET by QueenMum

Welcome to the club, Dave. Having many of the same issues as others. Wonder what sort of "code word" 404 is? ;)

"The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out
of other people's money."

—Margaret Thatcher

QM,

August 17, 2009 - 19:26 ET by R D Helm

LOL-They're coming to take us away.

Uh, huh.

-Dave

Maybe it's the 'flag' guys trying to cause problems for us

August 17, 2009 - 19:34 ET by Cape Conservative

'un-Americans' - with Nancy's blessings, of course, though she will deny it afterward ;-) Thanks for mentioning it...I couldn't figure out what was going on.

Hm. Cape you could be on to

August 17, 2009 - 19:42 ET by QueenMum

Hm. Cape you could be on to something. If anyone gets fishy e-mail from the White House, please report it so we can clear up any misconceptions. ;)

"The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out
of other people's money."

—Margaret Thatcher

Re Errors

August 17, 2009 - 20:01 ET by slickwillie2001

I tried to post a comment a couple of hours ago and I got a page back that told me I had to install some software program called DUBAL or something like that first. Strange stuff goin' on.

Skynet is assuming control of the Internet

August 17, 2009 - 20:06 ET by Free Stinker

Skynet is assuming control of the Internet in preperation for it's final attack!

Oops! Sorry, wrong blog. I meant to say that Obama is assuming control of the Internet in preperation for his next failed initiative. ;-)

No Way!

August 17, 2009 - 17:44 ET by BondPlainBond

Sebelius "misspoke"? Did she? Really? How do you think the publicly ridiculed-by-the-White-House Kathleen Sebelius is feeling today about accepting the Directorship of HHS? She didn't sign up for this kind of sh*t.

No. Now the new buzzwords for "public option" are "choice and competition", especially if they're coming from the mouth of Gibby.

The installation of dozens of unknown, untested, and inexperienced (self-affirmed socialists, self-affirmed communists, undisclosed racists) people as "czars" that put these plans, policies, and decisions into action, who are accountable and responsible to no one, demonstrates the deep level of corruption that is present in this White House.

The "public option" is still in full force and effect, we need to remain vigilant and continue to do the job OUR POLITICIANS ARE INCAPABLE of doing - read every word of the legislation this White House and Congress put forth.

I'd like, very much, to have the actual Congressional authors of this health care bill explain themselves. What? The people that wrote the bill are NOT Congresspeople? You're kidding! The racist Apollo project wrote the bill with the help of the SEIU? Wow. So it IS all about affirmative action and not health care. Now I want to meet the "Congressional" authors more than ever so they may explain their parts of this failed legislation to the American public.

We (town hall attendees and TEA Party protesters) are now the proven and policy-changing "public option".

BPB... Bulls-Eye... You'

August 17, 2009 - 17:52 ET by bigtimer

BPB...

Bulls-Eye...

You're dead on with your sentiments.

This isn't over by a long shot....they aren't done at all, if anyone thinks so, they'd be wrong.

What these leftists will do is every trick in the trade they can if they get just one toe in the door with an OCare Bill...incrementally, conference committees, last minute after midnight pages they will add to a bill right before a vote the next day...etc etc etc...

No Bill is a Good Bill.

That will be the real Waterloo as far as I am concerned....DeMint too. ;-)

Obama's a Community Agitator, a walking, talking destroyer. ~ Rush Limbaugh

bigtimer

August 17, 2009 - 18:14 ET by BondPlainBond

As you've said. Absolutely.

It's that habit the Democrats have of slipping things into legislation when no one is looking, or, using an acronym that's not widely known to title it. Liars, cheats, bad actors.

When, and IF, this legislation actually makes it to a vote, which I'm hoping will NEVER happen, Conservatives better have an all-day and an all-night sentry at the ready to inspect EVERYTHING the Dems attempt to slip in when they believe no one is looking.

Your point about incremental insertion is true, too. Obfuscated, retitled, and retooled to portray something it is not. Sneaky and underhanded -- it's the Congressional Democrats' way.

bpb - "Conservatives better have an all-day and an all-night"

August 17, 2009 - 19:39 ET by Cape Conservative

That's the MOST important thing - and I want our Republican leadership in BOTH houses on their toes DAY & NIGHT to make sure this bunch of sneaky sobs do NOT pull another stunt like their 3 a.m. vote!

If Congress members aren't questioning their LOW, almost single-digit approval ratings, I believe EACH & EVERY ONE of them should be voted out the door! They do NOTHING to deserve our respect. Gone are the days of expecting a statesman to act like one!

This was great

August 17, 2009 - 17:54 ET by ricklail

Read this from Neil Boortz about the fictiousCarrington Co. It would be better if you could have listened as he read it. If you live on the eastern seaboard you might be able to hear it on WBT 1110 from 12 AM to 1.

Semper suprene nitens

OBAMACARE: If it ain't good enough for my Congressman then it ain't good enough for me.

If you, for onr moment--

August 17, 2009 - 18:01 ET by misterbill

-- do not smell a rat then you are not as observant as I believe you to be. Health reform ---why is it needed?? health care improvement is needed not reform.
Reform has been the Democrat key issue forever. I know you all remember Hillary's efforts.
Think of the history books-one day-the Dems--party that gave everybody top notch health care, (before the industry collapsed).

The same people who are going to force cap and trade on us, the same people who are going to make incandescent bulbs unavailable, even illegal.

Even worse, the same people who are going to force amnesty down our throats. THEY will lose little or nothing. America's great middle class will foot the bill.

Check the list, it's endless. The Hispanic caucus, the Black caucus. lesbian bishops,, and on and on.

The destruction of America is at hand and we are responsible. TOLERANCE--is this the reward for TOLERANCE???

Then screw tolerance......

Is tolerance prohibiting prayer in school?? Providing perverted sex displays to our children??? Free medicare to illegal immigrants??? In state tuition for illegals??
There is a classic Alinsky ---have people argue about in state versus out of state tuition when they should not even be in our country or our schools.This is how they win. Now they define the protests at the town hall meetings in terms of extremism as if they are strangling infants. The same signs that wree used against Bush have risen, but now they are evil. It was OK when they did it.

Both sides are blowing the horn that violence is not the answer. My ass, violence has been the answer since man was first put on earth.

When you ignore a child, he or she will usually do something bad to attract attention. Do these fools in the Democratic party honestly believe they can ignore the public without consequences.

I don't blog much anymore because I feel I am wasting my time. What good does it do me to come here and preach to the choir. With the exception of a few notable a**h***s, most folks agree with me and each other. So what am I accomplishing??

The response to the town hall meetings indicate to me that the threshold is here and it may be or will be crossed soon. I personally am now furious at anyone who voted for the unamerican jerk in the White House. I was not a Carter fan or a Clinton fan but I could live through their nonsense. I detest this fool in the White House. I get angry when he is described as an orator. He, to me , is none of the above. He is a f***ing Marxist Communist as was his mother.

So, send the FBI to my house, but I will cheer on anyone who defies him in any way. I hope it is legal and peaceful, but I am beginning to not care..

I have been around a long time and this piece of phony crap is messing with my country.

misterbill

August 17, 2009 - 18:18 ET by BondPlainBond

Go, MrBill, Go!

Man, do I ever agree with you!

Hear! Hear!

August 17, 2009 - 18:23 ET by bigtimer

Hear! Hear! misterb....

Amen brother....Amen!

I'm with ya....all the way!

Obama's a Community Agitator, a walking, talking destroyer. ~ Rush Limbaugh

MISTERBILL FOR PRESIDENT!

August 17, 2009 - 19:01 ET by R D Helm

The line forms here.

-Dave

Save me a place ;-) Seriously, if we are ever to regain the

August 17, 2009 - 20:00 ET by Cape Conservative

America we once knew, more everyday Americans are going to have to 'drive their little red trucks' across their states and run for office. I truly believe many would win over the big dollars if we concentrated on the 'common man' vs the CROOKED POLITICIAN! I would vote for ANY businessman/woman, plumber, doctor...you name it...we need to rid ourselves of the ilk that has permeated the Halls of Congress for too long!

PS I'll help write your campaign literature, mrbill ;-)

Obama plumbs depths of utter cynicism

August 17, 2009 - 18:16 ET by Jack Bauer

This is pretty disgusting cynical stuff from Obama.

He finally finds a mission to fulfill his campian rhetoric.

Many more young Americans and young allies (almost entirely British) are going to die just so that the President isn't seen to be retreating from a purely opportunistic campaign pledge that had ONE aim.

To make him sound somewhat tough in military terms.

Because of his previous rhetoric in dismissing the Iraq war, he had to find a "good" war he could support.

Now, I agree with the view that having attacked and removed the terroristic regime from the country which harbored Osama Bin Laden. Having destroyed the al-kayda infrastructure and scattered the terrorists, Bush should have got the hell out of that shit-hole country and forgotten about "nation building." That's a hookah-dream.

But no. That was a mistake IMHO, understandable but a mistake. However for Obama to fixate on that region as a mere ploy to build up his campaign military macho is unforgivable.

Now today he dreams up this absurd rational. Apparently it's all to stop another "9/11". This is pitiful. I can't believe he believe it. It defies logic.

Of course I know what lefties will say. Ah ha, you don't support the "mission." Well, I will support every damn mission those brave gals and guys undertake against those Barbarians. They have to win.

But they are being given an impossible task. It's all to damn intolerable to my thinking. And the CiC won't even aim for victory, as he said less than three weeks ago. We live in surreal times.

Barack Obama voted for a single payer government bad healthcare system before he voted against it!

Jack Bauer

August 17, 2009 - 18:27 ET by BondPlainBond

On Fox & Friends this morning they had on the Commander of the VFW in Arizona (Obama spoke to the VFW there today). This guy was so pumped up about Obama's "very-pro military stance" that I wanted to wretch.

I kept hoping this man was simply saying things pro-Obama to sound good on TV and to avoid being placed on the "Enemies List" the Obama White House has been compiling since Day One. Check off yet another fool that's fallen for the lies of Obama.

Obama will NOT listen to his Generals, as he said he would, and, with Obama driving the war, Afghanistan will become an even more terrible place. The media is not reporting the numerous deaths in Afghanistan with the same verocity and urgency they did reporting the deaths in Iraq. The media is "protecting" Obama from his own bad choices and decisions. Obama's past proves he does not believe in any military mission.

I could not watch/listen to

August 17, 2009 - 18:32 ET by bigtimer

I could not watch/listen to one word O had to say today regarding this issue...it just doesn't get any phonier when he does this.

When oh when is he going to get out of our faces 24/7?!

Obama's a Community Agitator, a walking, talking destroyer. ~ Rush Limbaugh

bt - nails on a chalk board.

August 17, 2009 - 18:43 ET by Jack Bauer

bt - nails on a chalk board. I wish Rush would speed him up again. That was quite tolerable

Barack Obama voted for a single payer government bad healthcare system before he voted against it!

LOL Jack... ...that would

August 17, 2009 - 18:50 ET by bigtimer

LOL Jack...

...that would be the only way I could have listened to his phony BS.

Obama's a Community Agitator, a walking, talking destroyer. ~ Rush Limbaugh

BINGO!

August 17, 2009 - 19:22 ET by BondPlainBond

I cannot STAND hearing this liar's voice!

I'm seriously thinking of writing the FCC and asking them to pull the numerous mortgage company and car sales ads that use clips of Obama's speeches in their commercials because it is not only cruel and unusual punishment, but it MUST violate some rule or regulation to have Obama pandering and lobbying for his personal plans and policies via the airwaves. ARGH!

Like the woman that sold her TVs because of Obama's numerous and unnecessary appearances, I've been tempted to throw a hammer through my screen.

Bond -- you're right. I

August 17, 2009 - 18:40 ET by Jack Bauer

Bond -- you're right. I feel so sorry for the military.

Look, agree with Bush or not, I believe he genuinely believed in his military decisions to go to war, first in Afghanistan, then Iraq.

Did he make mistakes. You bet. That's what war is all about, as Winston Churchill was the first to admit.

I do not for one moment believe that Obama believes the crud he just enunciated to people who will pay the price. If he wants to nation-build Afghanistan because he genuinely believes it is in the national interest of the US and the UK, say so.

I don't agree but that is at least a defined, if naive, objective.

But to "prevent another 9/11" Sorry. That's total merde, pardon my french.

Barack Obama voted for a single payer government bad healthcare system before he voted against it!

Total Merde

August 17, 2009 - 19:27 ET by BondPlainBond

I'm with you, Jack Bauer.

Obama is all about lip-service while behind-the-scenes, doing what he believes is necessary to dismantle that which he just propped up.

If it's not Socialist in theory and practice - to Obama, it's not worth the effort.

Bond

August 17, 2009 - 19:09 ET by ricklail

I live in an area where there are a lot of Marines and sailors. (Camp Lejeune and Cherry Point.) I am around a lot of them at public places. I have yet to hear any praise for the One. I work around a lot of retired vets. Again no praise for Chair Maobama. This one vet that knows he is going to do harm to the military-probably more than Jimma Cotter did.

Semper suprene nitens

OBAMACARE: If it ain't good enough for my Congressman then it ain't good enough for me.

ricklail

August 17, 2009 - 19:30 ET by BondPlainBond

I am proud to be a born and raised military brat (Air Force), and I, too, have not heard a single word of support from the military for Obama. Not once. And seriously doubting I ever will.

P.S. I LOVE NC! Go Wolfpack!

F-22

August 17, 2009 - 20:16 ET by Unsane

Yeah, His Majesty The Shahinshah is so pro-military that He canceled the F-22.

"CONSUMED DEMOCRACY RETURNS A SOCIALIST REGIME" - Slayer, "Fictional Reality", from Divine Intervention (1994)

Now let's see if HMTS lets

August 17, 2009 - 20:22 ET by Free Stinker

Now let's see if HMTS lets the Air FOrce buy the KC-45. Boeing's *OR* Airbuses. Either!

WE CAN'T WAIT FOREVER! WE NEED TANKERS TO PROJECT POWER!!

Don't

August 18, 2009 - 01:02 ET by Unsane

Don't get me started on that subject, free...

"CONSUMED DEMOCRACY RETURNS A SOCIALIST REGIME" - Slayer, "Fictional Reality", from Divine Intervention (1994)

Unsane , Yea saved so much there 1.4 billion...

August 17, 2009 - 20:37 ET by upcountrywater

GM bail out 100 BILLION...

Sorry the F-35 will be a hanger queen...

The F-15 is just fine, ( it flew when carter was CIC )

iran has some still...

Americans will never leave earth orbit again..
sez NASA well 20 + years...

We will return to the day when our enemies may bomb our precious forces from the sky.

Oh yea the JokerCzarKing sez, no weapons in spacceeee...

No foward looking plans of any sort, dank man very dank..

No oil ,no nuks , no coal...

Reagan VS Liberalism

upc... ...No free,

August 17, 2009 - 20:52 ET by bigtimer

upc...

...No free, capitalist, self-sufficient, independent, super-power America.

Obama's a Community Agitator, a walking, talking destroyer. ~ Rush Limbaugh

bt, ( sorry Unsane I know you are on dial-up) I just found

August 17, 2009 - 21:09 ET by upcountrywater

This:
caution: run for your lives it's Christian you tube video..Hail Hitler, Hail obama, A black guy (The Honorable James David Manning) speaking...750,000 views in 60 days..

yea infrastructure is huge and more fragile than ever before, once it breaks .... not all the joker kings men can put it back together again.

Reagan VS Liberalism

upc.... I love

August 17, 2009 - 21:35 ET by bigtimer

upc....

I love Manning...get a kick out of him, don't know if you've you've caught the links I've posted here over quite a bit of time now..he's something else.

If you haven't, I'll put a couple here, in fact I just did the other day myself.

Obama's a Community Agitator, a walking, talking destroyer. ~ Rush Limbaugh

Iran and F-14s

August 18, 2009 - 01:00 ET by Unsane

upcountrywater - Methinks you are thinking of the F-14. Iran got hold of them when the Shah was still in power (and we thus allowed him to purchase some).

I seriously doubt they can fly today. Not even the United States flies them anymore. If spares were hard to find before, it has to be next to impossible now. The last time I heard some buzz about how hard it would be to continue to fly them, it was the 1980s. I just cannot imagine Iran flying them now.

"CONSUMED DEMOCRACY RETURNS A SOCIALIST REGIME" - Slayer, "Fictional Reality", from Divine Intervention (1994)

Unsane You are right,

August 18, 2009 - 15:22 ET by upcountrywater

That was the F-14 in service in the USA from 1974 to Sept 2006

As of 2008, it remains in service only with the Islamic Republic of Iran Air Force. Making their own knock off parts.

Still able to do bombing runs in iraq

Who knows maybe they used a ratty old Mig

It is a serious development because the Iraqi airspace is under the
control of the US Air Force and under US protection. So the raids
are either approved by the United States, as was the case when a US nod
was previously given to the Turkish Army, or such operation was a
surprise by the Iranians. According to eyewitnesses, the planes were
flying at very low altitudes, which may indicate that they were trying
to escape detection by radars. So these planes were able to attack many
locations. Eyewitnesses and official Kurdish sources said that the
raids were carried out by fighter jets and not helicopters.

Sept 2006 wasn't that long ago..

How long will we continue to have air superiority?

Reagan VS Liberalism

Jack & Bush

August 17, 2009 - 19:27 ET by MrShy

"Now, I agree with the view that having attacked and removed the terroristic regime from the country which harbored Osama Bin Laden. Having destroyed the al-kayda infrastructure and scattered the terrorists, Bush should have got the hell out of that shit-hole country and forgotten about "nation building." That's a hookah-dream."

IMO, starting the moment Bush & Co. sized up who was behind 9/11 and took stock of the history of that entire a**-backwards hell hole region known as the Middle East, and all the headaches it's been to this country and the rest of the more civilized world, I honestly could not think up a better long-term plan of attack (war on terrorism) than what they came up with. I think no matter what they did -- and especially being Republicans -- they were going to be crucified... or WORSE. What they ended up getting was something maybe in the middle, or even not so bad, if you can believe that.

I believe had they done as you say and just wiped out the Taliban and left, there would be such total outrage around the world -- that "once again" the mighty USofA went in with "bullets and bombs" and then high-tailed and allowed the country to collapse again. At the same time, if he TRULY went in full-force with a mission to completely finish off most, if not all, strains of this horrible radical Islamic movement, he would have to completely take over Afghanistan AND invade Pakistan, as well. A strategic and PR nightmare all over the place.

When I look back now, 8 years later, while things are still quite messy in places, there's just no way this would be avoidable unless we put our "military might" stamp all over the place and made ourselves even worse enemies to the world (although the MSM did a darned good job painting us as such anyway) then we already were.

We took out the Taliban, put in place some semblance of a moderate leader and a thrown-together constitution, kept enough soldiers there to keep things from unraveling completely, and then quickly moved to a very opportune target at the time -- and one that is geographically strategical -- in Iraq. This was a country smack-dab in the center of the M.E., with a dictator who was enough of a danger as it was, running a somewhat secularist/combo-religion country. THAT was where we had a real chance to plant a democracy, further isolating the remaining bad players in that whole stinking region of the world. I believe we succeeded on a good level in doing this. Iran's citizen revolt for change and real democracy owes a lot to their neighbor's transformation. Naturally, the MSM never touched on this.

Again, no matter what course of action he took, I believe it very easily could have been a lot worse. When was the last major Al Queda-backed, organized terrorist attack on the western world and/or it's interests? Early 2004, in Madrid. With respects, yes, 2005 in London, but not on the same level of real coordination and more of a home-grown thing.

People so quickly forget how horrendously dangerous the world felt like in the aftermath of 9/11. There were "terror cells all over the place", "Al Queda's tentacles reached everywhere", it wasn't "IF we would be attacked again, only WHEN", etc..

Say what you will about Bush/Cheney/et al in a lot of areas. With this overwhelming mess that was brewing for decades, it was all quite daunting and I applaud their response and efforts to combat it.

EDIT: And now, let's get on with the prosecution of WAR CRIMES already !!!! (/sarc)

MrShy

August 17, 2009 - 19:32 ET by BondPlainBond

Hear! Hear! *APPLAUSE*

Shy,

August 17, 2009 - 19:42 ET by R D Helm

Excellent post. You nailed it, and then some.

During Clinton's stint as CIC, we were hit five times by AQ. Once Bush became CIC, we were hit only once by them.

Despite Bush's many faults, he at least got that one right, which, at the end of the day, was his most important function as POTUS.

Clinton never really got that aspect, and Obama is about as clueless as it gets.

-Dave

Dave

August 17, 2009 - 19:44 ET by Free Stinker

Are you including TWA 800 and EgyptAir 990 in those totals?

Free

August 17, 2009 - 19:53 ET by MrShy

What was EA 990 again? And when?

Shy

August 17, 2009 - 19:58 ET by Free Stinker

The EgyptAir flight out of New York that the Co-Pilot intentionally crashed while repeating (caught on the CVR) "I rely on God" in Arabic.

Update: Back in '99

RD Helm

August 17, 2009 - 19:48 ET by MrShy

Thanks RD :)

Yes. Sadly, that one hit was a WHOPPER. But I try to tell all the brainless twit libs that the country was sleeping at the wheel on this mess no matter who was the president until that serious wake-up call came. And it came, unfortunately, and on Bush's/that term's president's watch.

But I shudder to think of the lame, short-term, purely aesthetic response Gore's team would have cooked up. Or if it was 9/11/99, the complete botched FIASCO Clinton would have mired us in.

MrShy - so much of history is seen so much clearer with the

August 17, 2009 - 21:58 ET by Cape Conservative

passing years...and I do believe that history will judge George Bush favorably. I agree with your assessment of the responses of either Gore or Clinton...and fear for the response of 'the one' because I have a gut feeling he WILL be tested.

MrShy, get ready pal. I am going to crawl up your tushy...

August 17, 2009 - 20:34 ET by JWF

...and commence to tah wiggling! What kind of... Ha! Gotcha! Just kidding big guy.

THAT was where we had a real chance to plant a democracy, further isolating the remaining bad players in that whole stinking region of the world.

Thomas P.M. Barnett called it the big bang. You are in class with guys with very big brains now sir. Be very careful with your new found power. I urge you to put his website in your favorites.

Sincerely,

a Veteran of a 1000 psychic wars.

JWF !!!

August 17, 2009 - 20:42 ET by MrShy

You nut you. Thanks :)

"You are in class with guys with very big brains now sir."

If I may, I think I've had that big brain since, well, about 2004 it started to dawn on me what this was all about. Even 2003, I felt like, damn, we got a president taking names. Me likey this. I feel safer now.

But seriously, how big a brain do you need, in hindsight, to "get it"? People just needed to loath this man regardless. It escapes me, that whole "syndrome".

They should all be on their knees thanking him and his team for SAVING THEIR A**ES from another attack, and making the world a better place in the process. Instead, they want him prosecuted, hanged, yada blah. You can now cue the circus music.

Re Wal-Mart

August 17, 2009 - 20:49 ET by slickwillie2001

The Wal-Marts I have been in have all been clean and bright and well run. In fact I went and bought groceries today during the run-in to Hannity's radio show. I often read stories about 'dirty' Wal-Marts, but I have been in dozens and never seen anything dirty or different than any other department store or grocery store.

I think much of the anti-Wal-Mart talk comes from the union-boosters out there that just hate Wal-Mart because they are non-union or some other reason. Wal-Mart makes a valuable contribution to our society by raising our standard of living through low prices. They make a lot of stuff in China? Find me a store that doesn't. Think Macy's and Target and Kohl's and Sears don't have as much stuff made in China? Tell me another one. Wal-Mart is a great American institution.

slick - I think the 'cleanliness' of Walmart has more to do with

August 17, 2009 - 22:04 ET by Cape Conservative

location (state) and local management hiring good employees and expecting them to do their jobs! We've been in some in Florida and Missouri that were the exact opposite of the ones here in Massachusetts. So many fail to recognize that HIRING THE RIGHT PEOPLE is 99% of a well-managed retail operation! It seems as though the ones here are there 'just because', while the workers in the midwest seemed to genuinely like their jobs - and it shows! Does this make sense to you?

Hey Slick

August 17, 2009 - 22:15 ET by RESTLESS 1

You sure your last name ain't Walton? :)

"This
liberal would be all about socialize -- uh, uh, would be about
basically taking over and the government running all of your companies."-Maxine Waters 2008

depends on where you are

August 17, 2009 - 22:59 ET by candance

I have been to a few WalMarts that were nice. The one close to my current home is a biohazard zone. It does have a lot to do with the neighborhood too.

Aside from that, I have met people who have been truly screwed by WalMart, injured on the job and denied workers' comp, all kinds of stuff. Those stories are not just myths. Doesn't mean I want them unionized. Just means they're a terrible company.

"Aside from that, I have

August 18, 2009 - 02:09 ET by ckc1227

"Aside from that, I have met people who have been truly screwed by
WalMart, injured on the job and denied workers' comp, all kinds of
stuff."

Then they should sue if they were illegitimately denied these things.

Joker Poster Artist

August 17, 2009 - 22:19 ET by slickwillie2001

Finally someone in the media writes the obvious story. Do you think the fact that he is a muslim will affect any of the 'racist' nonsense around the poster?

Obama Joker Artist Unmasked: A Fellow Chicagoan: http://latimesblogs.latimes.com

Note that Firas al Khateeb glosses over his reason for doing the poster. On his flickr page he originally said he did it because he felt the Bamster was not radical enough. That seems to have gone down the memory hole.

Great Chick fight

August 17, 2009 - 22:41 ET by shawn228

No pulling hair and pinching here, this was toe to toe. I feel bad for the former Champ Carano, she was great face for the sport.

"I swear sometimes the self-appointed moral police are as obnoxious and demanding of big government interference as "environmentalist" gun control advocates, labor unions and trial lawyers"~fitzfong

Don't be sexist. Chicks hate that!

August 17, 2009 - 22:44 ET by Free Stinker

I'm not sure the term "Chick Fight" is the exact term to use here. ;-)

Let me put it this way. Whould you call either of them a chick to their face?

"Don't be sexist. Chicks hate that!"

Well FS

August 17, 2009 - 22:46 ET by shawn228

only If I want them to break my face, which by the look of their fighting skills, would not be much of a problem ;-)

CNN's Sanchez stunned about guns in AZ rally

August 17, 2009 - 23:05 ET by SkipperMLM

This is rich with material Sanchez has a brain seizure and gaffs the entire story. He almost called President Obama "Obama"...not nice for the fawners. He keeps saying "those at home are thinking". Like everyone else thinks like him. Sanchez is wetting his pants because this "black guy is carrying a wepon". Later he sayes "given the fact it's President Obama, not President Bush or Prisident Clinton...". Why does this make a difference? He's leading the whole tone to racism. Other presidents have been shot at and both hit and missed.

http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/08/17/obama.protest.rifle/index.html#cnnSTCVideo

It's a slight retreat. I

August 18, 2009 - 06:54 ET by NonArabOmar

It's a slight retreat. I don't think the public option is off the table. The whole point of this bill was socialized medicine. If Obama doesn't get this, there is no point in going forward.

I guess, it may be a feint but it's probably the beginning of the end.