For general discussion and debate. Possible talking point: a history of debt.
The country first got into debt to help pay for the Revolutionary War. Growing ever since, the debt stands today at a staggering $11.4 trillion - equivalent to about $37,000 for each and every American. And it's expanding by over $1 trillion a year. The mountain of debt easily could become the next full-fledged economic crisis without firm action from Washington, economists of all stripes warn.
Thoughts?



















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was watching the History Channel last night
July 5, 2009 - 09:03 ET by candanceThey were doing a little montage of the major points of every presidential term. We happened to catch the 70s and 80s. The bias was ridiculous.
During Carter's segment they kept talking about his strong religious faith and the way he truly cared about world peace. The Carter Malaise was portrayed as a public reaction from whiny voters who didn't understand what he was trying to do. The overall gist was that Carter was a nice guy who got stuck in a bad situation.
Then we got to Reagan. David Gergen was tapped as an expert historian, so right away I knew it would be trouble. They instantly accused him of using "conservative rhetoric." Then they focused on the Iran-Contra affair and labored to make it look like Reagan had a huge mistake there. And then they explained how he used a "weird" strategy against the Russians, and of course the Soviet union fell because JFK stood up to them. (No joke - the exact line was that the fall of USSR resulted from the combined efforts of all presidents for 30 years)
Anyway, they then accused his tax cuts of creating the deficit in the 90s. His "obsession" with smaller government created the mess that Clinton inherited. That was the message from the History Channel.
No surprise at all,
July 5, 2009 - 09:09 ET by motherbeltNo surprise at all, candance....
Doesn't it just make you want to scream?
What most rational people remember about the 70's is gas lines, 20% inflation and mortgages at 12-14%! (we bought our first house back then at 10.75% and that was a VA loan!
But we were just whiners who didn't appreciate St. Jimmy!
And this is the version of "history" that a lot of students will see and believe.
I don't even know what to say about this crap any more.
PS...they screwed up one thing....I thought it was Mikhail Gorbachev who ended the Cold War!!
I didn't think it was physically possible, but this both sucks and blows. -Bart Simpson
We can afford it.
July 5, 2009 - 09:05 ET by JWFThe Obama administration is insuring we can afford it. They are counting on inflation. $37,000 will get you a candy bar when they are finished. We can afford a candy bar now can't we?
Sincerely,
a Veteran of a 1000 psychic wars.
Remember this word: Obamageddon
July 5, 2009 - 09:20 ET by WorriedThe author was on Fox this morning. Obamageddon = The Greatest Depression.
He said 2012 is when you-know-what is going to hit the fan.
He also said he believes unemployment is probably already around 17%.
I've also heard 2012 is when you will see food shortages.
Another day of doom and gloom in Obamanation.
Food shortages could occur
July 5, 2009 - 09:40 ET by NL207Food shortages could occur at anytime now.
The stage has already been set by idiot government policies. Biofuels. EPA wetlands protection lawsuits. Eniro-wacko lawsuits most recently shutdown the irrigation pumps on the Sacramento River, extinguishing 80,000 jobs and destroying a huge swath of agriculture in the San Joaquin Valley.
Most importantly, the Sun has entered a dormant cycle whose depths appears to be on the order of, perhaps slightly more active than, the Dalton mimimum. Thank God it is not a Maunder or Sporer event. These idiots in the AGW movement haven't understood what kind of impact global cooling can have on agricultural yields and they do not accept the Sun's role in recent warming. They need to understand the dark times Charles Dickens wrote about owe much of their depth to the Dalton solar minimum.
This year hasn't been at all warm. In my region we have experienced the coldest June in over a century and the second coldest on record. July is thus far just as abnormally cool and our long range weather forecasts do not predict anything like normal daytime high temps into the middle of the month.
A poor harvest this year is already a looming possibility.
Home garden
July 5, 2009 - 09:55 ET by DontFeedTheTrollsDidn't Congress recently pass a law (actually, hid it within another bill) that allows law enforcement to arrest/fine/close down a 'backyard' garden? I heard a blurb about this but have heard nothing further. I wouldn't put it past this administeration.
D
Write Congress and Senate and tell them what YOU think!
Keep the ILLEGALS out, join NumbersUSA to send free faxes to your reps.
NL, The MSM SSM only mentioned the heat waves
July 5, 2009 - 11:20 ET by upcountrywaterThe blow back I get is, what about some highs we just had...
Like the low 90's in May or some such..
595 record lows this year
A
large pocket of unusually cool air by July standards will
settle in over the Great Lakes, Ontario, and Northeast
during the middle of the week, with afternoon temperatures
averaging a whopping 15 to 20 degrees cooler than they
should be at this time of year!
Food shortages are comming.
Lets just see how friendly these folk will become, you know the ones you hold a door open for and they don't thank you.
It will be colder next year..
Reagan VS Liberalism
'Food shortages are comming'
July 5, 2009 - 13:11 ET by JDWBite your lip
NEW WORLD RECORD: 68 hot dogs in 10 minutes
JDW
DAILY WAVE
Jobs, jobs, jobs ... Spend, spend, spend
Can we shut General Powell UP?
July 5, 2009 - 10:01 ET by DelsaHe is everywhere telling Americans how the surge should have taken place earlier..... yata yata yata
What did the general ever do?????
What war did he ever win??
Now he is warning the guy he voted for to go slow with his socialist program? Go figure?
Go Away General!
Give us all a Break!
We can't shut him up unless
July 5, 2009 - 10:04 ET by NL207We can't shut him up unless we become like our enemies, the liberals.
Let him talk. But also let our side speak as well.
NL207
July 5, 2009 - 10:17 ET by DelsaI know we can't shut him up but I am almost as sick of hearing him as I am SOBama.
Guess I'm just over them both.
Did he urge President Bush
July 5, 2009 - 10:12 ET by motherbeltDid he urge President Bush to initiate the surge before he acutally did? Was he in favor of the surge when Bush DID initiate it? Did he say at the time that it should have started sooner?
My research into this (admittedly, I just Googled) seems to indicate that at the time Powell didn't think the surge would work. I found no indication that he said it should have happened sooner. He was not in favor of it; he preferred the "solution" of relinquishing responsibility to the Iraqi government and drawing down troops.
He is beginning to sound like Hillary Clinton with his wanting to be on every side of the situation.
My thinking is that he seems to be available to talk about anything, if it will get him face time on the networks. Kind of sad, really.
I didn't think it was physically possible, but this both sucks and blows. -Bart Simpson
Why no NB posts on the Tea
July 5, 2009 - 10:01 ET by d1carterWhy no NB posts on the Tea Parties?
TEA party
July 5, 2009 - 10:08 ET by DontFeedTheTrollsYou must have missed it.
Write Congress and Senate and tell them what YOU think!
Keep the ILLEGALS out, join NumbersUSA to send free faxes to your reps.
jessieH
July 5, 2009 - 10:29 ET by jessieHjessieH I have noticed the govt. keeps trying to push cap & trade. Well, cap cap & trade could be a good thing, if WE use it on our elected officials. Cap their saleries & make it retroactive. Trade in these buffoons for someone with a brain. Let's put them on the same playing field that WE're on. Put them on social security, & abolish their retirement perks. Or, WE can put them in debtors prison, untill the budget is balanced.
Obama thinks he's hit the lottery.
July 5, 2009 - 10:35 ET by pbthinkerI'm sure we've all seen it, the guy that hits the lottery and a few years later is filing for bankruptcy. In this case, you have a president that believes, for whatever reason, there's an unlimited supply of money to do what he wants. He's convinced himself that he can remove the problems that health care are going to give the unions and medicare in the near future by just nationalizing it. He has joined Democrats who believe they can sneak in Cap and Trade as a save the environment thing, and end up reaping a new revenue stream that people will pay and not pay attention to.
It's pretty obvious that both of those things will have drastic effects on our economy and it just doesn't seem to bother him. If he's wrong, it's going to take a lot of effort from his replacement to get the train back on the track.
With the stimulus package, there are only so many trillions available so it's imperative that you get it right. Instead of thinking like that, President Obama let the Pelosi/Reid team set it up with pork upon pork and it's not working. How many times does President Obama believe he can do this? How many trillions of dollars are available for plans B,C, OR D if necessary.
Election 2008-God's way of showing us that elections count.
Re Stimulus
July 5, 2009 - 11:45 ET by slickwillie2001The Bamster and the democratic congress know that their stimulus package will not generate new economic activity. They only did it to hand out pork to their friends, and to set a spending marker for future budgets. After this year, no matter what the democratics do, they can credibly claim that they have reduced spending from 2009, and the liberal media will suck it up.
Re stimulus, democratics are generally economic illiterates, including the Bamster. This is one of the reasons democratics are okay with destroying our education system, because ignorant voters are more likely to vote democratic.
There's no argument that throwing out money can generate job #1 directly. If you give money to a county to repair a water fountain, the water fountain-rebuilder gets work, but it stops there. If you want to stimulate economic activity, you do something like put broadband access in a place that doesn't have it, so new businesses can develop there, and others become more efficient. The general public doesn't understand that government 'stimulus' that is not multiplicative is not really stimulating.
If you don't care about the multiplicative effect, then you might as well hire workers to dig holes during the day shift, and fill them up on the night shift. Lots of hole-diggers can be employed, but it stops there.
Coincidences
July 5, 2009 - 10:47 ET by KC MulvilleAs David Hume taught, not all correlations are causes. On the other hand, all causes are correlations. To find causes, we look first to correlations.
Today I read that there was a monorail accident at Disney World; one dead. Hmm ... two fatal rail crashes. Not long ago there was the DC Rail crash. Rail crashes? Yeah, I know that two instances aren't much, but is anyone else wondering whether this is a pattern. If a terrorist had figured out a way to disrupt rail signals, this is what it would look like.
The GOP had a few people who looked to be part of the next generation of leaders - now they're falling to scandal. Of course, this would be the natural time for future candidates to decide whether to keep moving or fall back, but that doesn't explain scandal. If we see another scandal to a GOP hopeful within the next couple of months, then I'll start to get worried.
"I'll start to get worried."
July 6, 2009 - 08:44 ET by troglodyt"I'll start to get worried." About the possible infiltration of the GOP by female terrorists whose sole purpose is to seduce the 2012 hopefuls?
Nah
July 6, 2009 - 09:41 ET by KC MulvilleI suspect they don't need to invent the scandal, since these guys (especially Sanford) look like easy pickings anyway. They seem to be just that dumb.
What worries me is the potential for blackmail that follows.
→ Don't worry KC
July 6, 2009 - 09:50 ET by Cool ArrowI think we're ready for a woman at the top of the ticket.
I'm NOT necessarily paving a path for Palin, I'm just saying women lack that "little brain" that responds so irresponsibly to power.
Wouldn't bother me
July 6, 2009 - 10:18 ET by KC MulvilleAt this point, I'll bet most Americans don't give a crap about the demographics of the candidate.
I admit, though, that this utterly confuses me. We've been told endlessly that the future is grim for conservatives. Why? Demographics. The Hispanics are ready to be the swing voters. Blacks are overwhelmingly Democrat. Women are Democrats. According to the pundits and the professional campaign "operatives," demographics spell doom for the future of conservatives. There's only one thing that matters: demographics. Your gender and race mean everything.
Of course, I don't think they're right. That's why I'm not so sure that demographics spell the end of anything. If demographics meant so much, Obama wouldn't have had a chance against Hillary: (blacks represent 12% of the population, women are 50%).
Don't count conservatives out just yet ...
All the fooferaw in the
July 5, 2009 - 10:56 ET by ConservativeRexAll the fooferaw in the whole country won't get Washington to do the ONE thing proven to work. It's too late now isn't?
Stop spending! Cut all spending to a minimum, all of it. Quit printing more money. Get the federalis to quit loaning money to deadbeats with no intention of paying it back. Hell, they're talking about starting that up again. So we can once again put folks in houses thay have no business owning and no intention or way in hell of paying for. If they start this up again, we really do need to storm Washington and throw these bastards out. Every last one of them, up to and including obami.
Bamster Doesn't Want Recovery
July 5, 2009 - 10:59 ET by slickwillie2001Here's a great article on interest rates and how they will lead to another round of foreclosures, and will present the Bamster a choice between economic destruction and his hallucination of a Great Socialist Society.
The US Treasury Bond Can Bring Obama Down: http://theeprovocateur.blogspot.com
"So what's a half a percentage point or even three quarters of a point, when mortgage interest rates are still historically low? Well, apparently a lot. I'm told that a lot of loan applications, and refis in particular, that are currently in the pipeline were submitted without a rate lock. Mark Hanson, of the Field Check Group says, "millions of refi applications presently in the pipeline, on which lenders already spent a considerable amount of time and money processing, will never fund.""
If you look at Cloward-Piven, and the original goals of ACORN and it's origins, the objective was to break government. The socialists theorized that they could only remake our society and economy if they break it first. Otherwise there would not be public support for such a total remake, -no 'crisis' for them to take advantage of. I would now add healthcare to the list of things they want to break. I believe the Bamster and his cabal don't want economic recovery yet, because they are not done with their socialist transformation. By the time they think they are done, will we be capable of recovery?
The $11.4 trillion debt
July 5, 2009 - 11:07 ET by dscottThe $11.4 trillion debt represents a transfer of wealth that liberals are prepared to TAKE from the nation as a whole. Here is a thought people should keep in mind as you see Obama so effortlessly will rack up debt in the coming years. The threat of hyperinflation from the Fed printing money won’t materialize due to all the
wealth destruction that has occured. I was looking over the estimated losses to the US.
Let’s look at some facts:
US-originated assets’ total loan losses and securities writedowns
are expected to reach about $3.6 trillion. The US banking sector is
exposed to half of this figure, or about $1.8 trillion (i.e. $1.1
trillion loan losses + $700bn writedowns).
http://www.historycommons.org/context.jsp?item=financial_crisis_33&scale=2#financial_crisis_33
I speculate that the Fed could in theory print $3.6 trillion in bank notes with zero inflation based on the wealth destroyed because it would be replacing that which was destroyed (from our 401ks). From this point of view Obama has absolutely no incentive to bring the economy out of a recession, for him it's actually better to go deeper into a Depression. Biden now claims they misread the seriousness of the economic situation, in other words he admits they well clueless. Combined with Rahm Emanuels comments on exploiting a crisis, I submit the liberals having screwed up the economy through their incompetence are now prepared to exploit the misery by implimenting all their favorite programs by printing money under the guise of riding to the rescue of the victims.
I submit the following: Whether by design or incompetence the Fed printing $3.6 trillion is a wealth transfer via a stealth tax upon society. The $10 trillion planned in deficit spending (over and above current taxation) by Obama is the cost of the liberal’s Equality of
Outcome by leveling the wealth of all American’s whose Net Assets are
above the poverty line.
Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid, starving the poor one gallon of ethanol at a time. Fill your tank with E85 and cull a village.
OAS Expells Honduras?
July 5, 2009 - 11:11 ET by DelsaWhat does that tell us about the OAS?
Democratic? Constitutional Loving?
I don't think so.
Honduras, her people, her courts, and her military have an absolute right to kick the Marxist out of office for NOT living up to the Honduran Constitution!
I hope we in the United States can stand up when the time comes and do the same.
Screw this Organization of Socialist States!
Re PDS Rumors
July 5, 2009 - 12:00 ET by slickwillie2001Here's a pretty good putdown of the goofy 'FBI/IRS investigation' rumors that some of our trolls have been spamming us with:
FBI Shoots Down Liberal Bloggers on Palin 'Investigation': http://www.americanthinker.com/blog
From the LA Times, link embedded: "Reporting from Washington -- A day after Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin resigned, a federal official in her home state dismissed one potential explanation for her sudden and unexpected resignation: a rumored FBI investigation into the former Wasilla mayor on public corruption charges."
Obama: Ready to get rolled?
July 5, 2009 - 13:29 ET by KC MulvilleThe Russians say that they're open to anything, so long as the US abandons deployment of a missile shield in Europe. They're "willing to compromise" so long as the US makes a compromise first.
Anyone want to guess how long it'll take Obama to cave on that one?
History of Debt
July 5, 2009 - 15:08 ET by sic721"Those who ignore history are doomed to repeat it". That being said, it was over 2,000 years ago, in 63 BC, Cicero said this,
"The budget should be balanced, the Treasury should be refilled, public debt should be reduced, the arrogance of officialdom should be tempered and controlled, and the assistance to foreign lands should be curtailed lest Rome become bankrupt. People must again learn to work, instead of living on public assistance."
Yet another example of "self-evident truths" which liberals tend to ignore.
"A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within."-Cicero
Did Joe Step In It Again?
July 5, 2009 - 15:32 ET by slickwillie2001If I was Netanyahu, I could claim this is a green light to attack Iran:
"...Yet Vice President Joe Biden refused to condemn a potential Israeli strike on ABC’s This Week. “We cannot dictate to a sovereign nation what it can and cannot do," Mr. Biden said. Pressed further, he added: “Israel has the right to determine what is in its best interests.”"
Not that Israel should require a 'green light'. Ref: Closer to an Israeli Strike on Iran's Nukes?: http://features.csmonitor.com
Israel also may have overflight clearance from Soddy Arabia, another surprise. Not that they have it, but that they would discuss it.
PS: Why would Israel want to attack a TV program?
$59.1 Trillion in Unfunded Government Liabilities...
July 5, 2009 - 17:33 ET by AmmoManPeople have become so desensitized when it comes to talking about millions, billions, now trillions of dollars in unfunded Government liabilities (SS, Medicare, Medicaid, etc...). Recently in USA Today they posted a figure of about $59.1 Trillion and counting.
Just how much money is it?
In January of 2006, NASA launched the New Horizons spacecraft to Pluto. It was the fastest spacecraft ever launched. Speeding past the moons orbit in about 9 hours (remember most Apollo missions took over 3 days to reach the same distance), it received a boost in speed going around the planet Jupiter back in 2007 and is now travelling towards Pluto at over 45,000 miles per hour. New Horizons will not arrive until July of 2015. So, for a quick recap, it was launched over 3-1/2 years ago, is travelling at 45,000 miles per hour, and won't reach Pluto for another 6 years.
So what does this have to do with the $59.1 Trillion in unfunded Government liabilities? Well, if you could convert that to $1 bills and could string them end-to-end, they would reach all the way to Pluto...
and back...
Now that, should scare the hell out of just about everyone!
→ WAPO apologizes
July 5, 2009 - 21:21 ET by Cool ArrowMrs Pinchon, er, I mean Katharine Weymouth, apologized today for her attempt to further subvert journalism (see also FUBAR) beyond its current state of corruption.
....as she keeps her
July 5, 2009 - 21:27 ET by bigtimer....as she keeps her fingers crossed behind her back.
Doubling down on stupid is not a particularly good idea. ~Andrew Breitbart
B***H set me up! or name the party
July 5, 2009 - 21:31 ET by mastersofdeceitB*^&H set me up!
Just for a refresher.
mod... He never does
July 6, 2009 - 00:23 ET by bigtimermod...
He never does time...so that's out the window.
Heck...he'll get elected again for something....even if it is dog-catcher.
Doubling down on stupid is not a particularly good idea. ~Andrew Breitbart
Anybody here about
July 6, 2009 - 00:56 ET by bigtimerAnybody hear about this....here and here?
Incrementally....always.
That's the plan Stan.
Doubling down on stupid is not a particularly good idea. ~Andrew Breitbart