For general discussion and debate. Possible talking point: military wary about Obama.
When asked how they feel about President-elect Barack Obama as commander in chief, six out of 10 active-duty service members say they are uncertain or pessimistic, according to a Military Times survey. In follow-up interviews, respondents expressed concerns about Obama’s lack of military service and experience leading men and women in uniform. “Being that the Marine Corps can be sent anywhere in the world with the snap of his fingers, nobody has confidence in this guy as commander in chief,” said one lance corporal who asked not to be identified.
Are these concerns warranted? Does this represent a problem for Obama, or something easily rectified?



















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Glad you put this up
January 2, 2009 - 10:29 ET by BlondeI read the whole thing over on Drudge and was going to post a link on the OT. Interesting, even the youngest members quoted have a better picture of our aims/goals than The One does.
With the economy the way it is, I'd imagine there won't be a mass exodus...yet.
It depends upon Obama, but from every indication I've seen, he thinks the military is a prop to be used (or not) merely as a photo op. I don't think Obama actually disdains the military the way the Clintons did....but he's not done himself any favors.
Time will tell, and there are posters here far more qualified than I to weigh in on this subject. This should be an interesting discussion.
Both of son-in-laws, the
January 2, 2009 - 10:40 ET by ricklailBoth of son-in-laws, the Marine and the Navy Corpsman don't like Obama. Both are scheduled to deploy this spring to Irag or Afganistan, not sure which yet because the One has promised to put more troops into Afganistan and remove some from Irag.
YOU CAN KEEP "THE CHANGE" PALIN 2012
As an active duty airman, I
January 2, 2009 - 10:35 ET by Mean Gene Dr. LoveAs an active duty airman, I am not looking forward to him being the CINC. "Don't ask, don't tell" needs to stay in place...getting rid of that will only bring about bad results...why the liberals think it needs to be done away with--and that it would be good for everyone to know who really is gay, is beyond my understanding. Being loaned out to or serving under the UN banner is very unappealing as well. But most of all, we stand to lose much that we have gained in the War on Terror.
"An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life." --Robert A. Heinlein, "Beyond This Horizon," 1942
did you mean.....
January 2, 2009 - 10:39 ET by VT Con Man.....appalling???
oops
January 2, 2009 - 10:40 ET by VT Con Manun appealing, got it.
I would have to disagree
January 2, 2009 - 10:47 ET by shawn228I realize your far more qualified than me on the ways of the military, but IMO serving openly and not keeping the fact you are gay a secret is actually one of the positives of a Obama Presidency.
He had my vote
Yeah Shawn if the gays would
January 2, 2009 - 12:50 ET by jistincaseYeah Shawn if the gays would like the Full Metal Jacket treatment then they should come on out. I am not in the service but I can tell you that somebody that I knew to be a flamer checking out my junk in the shower would make me mad and a little more than uncomfortable. If they want to be openly gay and serve in the armed forces they should move to Holland, that is one screwed up country.
checking out your junk?
January 2, 2009 - 21:06 ET by shawn228Well I guess it is perfectly alright if someone checks out your junk if you don't know that persons gay ;-)
He had my vote
Positive for who Shawn? The
January 2, 2009 - 13:03 ET by Mean Gene Dr. LovePositive for who Shawn? The less than 2% of the military population that may or may not be gay? Ask servicemen if they want to know whether the guy bunking with them or showering with them or sitting in the foxhole with them is gay...the answer will invariably be "NO!"
We don't want to know, we don't need to know. It's none of our business and we don't want anyone to make it our business. Having openly gay policies will be a very unwelcome distraction that will only diminish our already strained defense and war-fighting capabilities
With openly gay policies we would shift from 2% of the military population being uncomfortable having to hide their sexuality to having 98% of the population feel uncomfortable about the gay's sexuality.
"An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life." --Robert A. Heinlein, "Beyond This Horizon," 1942
Dr. Love taps Shawn, testing his kneejerk response
January 2, 2009 - 13:25 ET by choselife3xAnd then there is the whole issue of, IF YA DON'T LIKE IT, DON'T JOIN.
In order to be pro-choice, one must first be born. Ah, the irony.
IF YA DON'T LIKE IT, DON'T JOIN.
January 3, 2009 - 11:31 ET by shawn228"IF YA DON'T LIKE IT, DON'T JOIN. "
This is not a membership to starfish action club, this is enlisting to protect your right and free speech to criticize them on Newsbusters.
He had my vote
Mean Gene
January 2, 2009 - 21:11 ET by shawn228I'm not saying that it should be mandatory people should tell us they are gay, I am saying they should have that option if they wanted to.
Just because a fellow soldier has a difference sexual preference than you, it does not mean he is checking you out.
I figure if a person is willing to give his life for his country, I don't see the problem with that person openly saying they are gay.
He had my vote
But you did say it would be
January 2, 2009 - 21:43 ET by Mean Gene Dr. LoveBut you did say it would be positive. And I asked who it would be positive for? You never answered that question. So I'll ask again: Positive for who, Shawn?
Being in the military means being part of a cohesive unit. It means you put aside petty personal aspirations and desires for the good of the unit. When people come in and make parts of their personal life an "important" issue, the cohesiveness of the unit begins to deteriorate because they are demanding undue attention.
Religion in the military is a prime example. My religious beliefs in a lot of areas conflict with military standards and customs. However, my religious beliefs also support a strong defense for our nation and demand that I am loyal to my country and I obey my leaders, and that's why I joined, so I could contribute to our country's well-being. I don't force my religious beliefs on the other guys in my unit (or anyone else for that matter). I don't make my religion their business. I don't demand that they observe my religious beliefs. I do not feel the least slighted because I may have to put the military ahead of my religious beliefs a lot of the time. It's part of military life.
The homosexual community's constant battle for validation is a self-centered plea for attention. The military doesn't need any self-centered drama...they need people that are willing to put their personal baggage aside and fight shoulder to shoulder as one.
Once again, if you ask the military members if they think it's a good idea, they will overwhelmingly tell you that it isn't.
Here's a challenge for you: Sit down and brainstorm. On a piece of paper draw a line down the middle. On the top left of the paper write 'Pros' on the top right of the paper write 'Cons.' Now try to list all of the pros and all of the cons of having the don't ask, don't tell policy...do it on a group dynamics basis, not on an individual basis. Now on another sheet of paper do the same for having the policy removed. How do they match up? Which one has more negatives?
"An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life." --Robert A. Heinlein, "Beyond This Horizon," 1942
Pros and Cons of don't ask don't tell
January 3, 2009 - 00:37 ET by shawn228Pros
Cons
Mean Gene, I respect your religion and you have every right to tell everyone your a Christian. However I do not believe you have the right to force everyone to listen to the Gospel, which you clearly do not.
Same with gays, If people are openly gay, it does not mean they are going to walk around a bunker with their G-string, It does not mean they are going to have gay sex in every bathroom stahl.
If gayness was forced on you I understand your POV, but it is not, it is simply the right to admit ones sexual orientation.
Even straight soldiers have a strict dress and ethics code do they not?
He had my vote
What Army shortage? Where
January 3, 2009 - 11:03 ET by Mean Gene Dr. LoveWhat Army shortage? Where are you getting your information?
FY2008 Military Recruiting Statistics: "All of the active duty and reserve branches met or exceeded their recruiting goals for the fiscal year."
Read the rest of the article for more statistics that nullify your 2nd and 4th "Pros."
As for your first "Pro," how would removing the current policy reverse 12,000 alleged discharges as a result of the policy since 1993?
And your list of "Cons" are pretty minimalistic. Do you realize that there would be many, many, many more sexual harrassment allegations? You're worried about discharges and shortfalls... ever think about the straight people that will get out/or not even bother to enlist in the first place? JWF mentioned the monetary costs of removing the policy. But most importantly it will erode the unity of units everywhere, because someone's sexual preference (which currently is not an issue) would now become an issue. Does it still seem like a good idea?
This policy "discriminates" against 2% of people that were aware of the policy BEFORE they VOLUNTEERED. It would be stupid for the DoD to remove the policy to make a few people "feel" better and end up with much bigger problems on their hands.
"An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life." --Robert A. Heinlein, "Beyond This Horizon," 1942
Mean Gene
January 3, 2009 - 11:23 ET by shawn228Yes they have made their goals, but when the armed forces were short of their goal, they had to come up with a way to get more to enlist. They decided to do a waiver for 20 percent for medical and conduct reasons.
They lowered the bar, so there is a possiblity that folks with mental health problems, drug addicts and felons are holding AK-47's.
"As for your first "Pro," how would removing the current policy reverse
12,000 alleged discharges as a result of the policy since 1993? "
It would not reverse it, I am saying those 12,000 would not have been discharged if they were allowed to serve openly in the first place.
He had my vote
So how can it be a "Pro"
January 3, 2009 - 11:36 ET by Mean Gene Dr. LoveSo how can it be a "Pro" if we can't undo 12,000 discharges?
As for this little nugget: "there is a possiblity that folks with mental health problems, drug addicts and felons are holding AK-47's."
The U.S. military has never used AK-47's. I'll just leave it at that.
"An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life." --Robert A. Heinlein, "Beyond This Horizon," 1942
Mean Gene, I believe you
January 3, 2009 - 11:41 ET by shawn228Mean Gene, I believe you know what I mean. Those 12,000 people could have stayed and had a great career with the armed forces if not for their sexual orientation.
I am also sorry that I do not know my rifle models very well, it would be nice if you addressed my point of the army lowering its standards instead of focusing on a minor detail.
He had my vote
Believe it or not,
January 3, 2009 - 12:02 ET by Mean Gene Dr. LoveBelieve it or not, lowering standards and granting waivers are different things. If they lowered standards, then people wouldn't need waivers.
The military has always granted waivers for various things such as juvenile trouble with the law, minor medical problems (i.e. flat feet, asthma, and ADD). I am sure the percentage of waivers applied for versus the percentage granted shows little difference over the years.
"An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life." --Robert A. Heinlein, "Beyond This Horizon," 1942
Little known fact regarding
January 3, 2009 - 12:35 ET by BDLittle known fact regarding the seperations for Don't Ask, Don't Tell is that most servicemembers seperated from the military for this have doubtlessly NOT been homosexual.
Most of these seperations occur at the secondery training phase (AIT,IET etc) post bootcamp and occur when the individual in question simply desires a failsafe manner of exiting the military with an honorable discharge.
Find that you really are not up to waking up at 0530 each morning, going for a run at 0600 and then attending an all day instruction in terrain analysis that would stun a statue? Simply tell your company commander you are Gay and you will be out of the military in 2 weeks time, few questions asked. And in todays civilian climate, no one would either know the reason for your discharge nor really care.
Other discharges are harder to come by hence the reliance on "Don't Ask Don't tell" as a fool proof method of getting out.
→ BD
January 3, 2009 - 12:45 ET by Cool ArrowOther discharges are harder to come by
Now that's funny - I don't care who y'are.
double
January 3, 2009 - 06:20 ET by MrShyfreakin' post... apologies.
You're the next contestant on...
THE MESSIAH IS... LEFT !!
shawn & g-strings
January 3, 2009 - 06:20 ET by MrShy"...If people are openly gay, it does not mean they are going to walk around a bunker with their G-string"
Had to go there, huh?
You're the next contestant on...
THE MESSIAH IS... LEFT !!
Mr S... ah, nothing better
January 3, 2009 - 06:26 ET by Jack BauerMr S... ah, nothing better than the smell of air on a G-string in the morning.
Urgghhh, even I'm grossed out by that horrible imagery!
Optional? way to commit mr. shawn.
January 3, 2009 - 01:42 ET by JWFLet servicemembers serve when they are openly homosexual will require hundreds of BILLIONS of dollars to be spent.
We segregate the sexes in the military. Different sleeping quarters, different bathrooms just like everywhere else in society. You are asking to either request someone sleep and shower with another person that is physically attracted to them or require that separate barracks be built for homosexuals (male & female). You are requiring the ships built decades ago be reconfigured. Ships built out of STEEL.
I have slept on ships where there was only a curtain separating me and the bunkmate next to me.
Which is it Mr. Shawn? Do you now want to have 4 different kinds of barracks built? Or do you want to force people living in very tight quarters to be uncomfortable with their living situation 8 or 10 or 12 hours a day? Or do you prefer a homosexual to continue to live a lie, act and pretend to be straight so as to not alarm those around him? If you want homosexuals to server openly, then they must notify the service if they are gay. To fail to do so would be enlisting by making a fraudulent statement. They kick people out for that. One reason being that you are subject to blackmail.
Get off the fence Mr. Shawn. Either prepare to pony up mega tax dollars to competely overhaul the sleeping arrangements of our military. One barracks for men. One barracks for women. One barracks for female homosexuals. One barracks for male homosexuals. One barracks for transexuals. One barracks for transgender. One barracks for transvestites. One barracks for transgender crossdressers. One barracks for hermaphrodite transgender pre-surgery. One barracks for transgender post-surgery cross assignment. One barracks for all teh Shawns 200 through 456.
Sincerely,
a Veteran of a 1000 psychic wars.
tax dollars?
January 3, 2009 - 01:51 ET by shawn228At least you have moved on from making fun of my name......sort of :-)
"If you want homosexuals to server openly, then they must notify the
service if they are gay. To fail to do so would be enlisting by making
a fraudulent statement "
I do not believe I said it was mandatory, I said it would be optional. No need for separate bunks. :-)
He had my vote
OK. Continue to live a celibate life.
January 3, 2009 - 02:34 ET by JWFAhhh. Ok. Stay on the fence then.
Homosexuals must continue to live a lie pretending they are straight. Having actual homosexual sexual type activities can still land you in the hooskow and/or get you kicked out of the service with a less than honorable discharge, which is a very very very handy thing to have when you are looking for a job.
So, gotcha. Homosexuals must continue to live a very celibate lie in order to stay or enlist in the military.
Yes. You are allowed to BE homosexual, just don't tell anyone and FER GAWDS SAKE don't actually have sex for the 20 or so years until your retirement. Because this is the wishy washy way we want things to be, that's why. Yes Yes Yes. We know it actually pleases no one but the wishy washy who get to live their life on the fence and continue to be wishy washy.
Sincerely,
a Veteran of a 1000 psychic wars.
Shawn228
January 3, 2009 - 05:10 ET by Michael30The problem is that the military is not a democratic institution.
Let's say I were an enlisted man, I don't have freedom of speech when adressing a superior officer or NCO. I certainly don't have a right to privacy with regards to my footlocker or bunk. All are open to inspection without a moments notice.
As for equal protection under the law, there are different penalties for officers as opposed to those instituted against enlisted personnel. So that democratic concept is not really in practice either.
When I was going to join the service (1996), women were barred from combat specific entry like infantry, armor, cavalry, artillery as well as in submarine service in the navy. As far as I know, those restrictions are still in place. So true equality isn't exactly applied there either. Though I'm not sure about the navy regulations anymore.
What I mean by all of this is that what rights and guarantees we enjoy as citizens, we do not hold when in uniform. The very word "uniform" itself means to conform to a single entity. Individuality means little if anything. The only thing you really retain is your religion and blood type, which are found on your dogtags.
I understand you point of view, but I think you also must take into account the view of morale that Mean Gene put forth. At the current moment, we are engaged in combat. Anything that can lower morale would be a grave mistake. Whether it is on a regimental, platoon or squad level, no matter how small the consequence may seem to even the best intentioned person. A soldier is to operate a weapon and take orders, all other concerns are secondary, and therefore unnecessary. That would be fine if we were robots, however the notion of morale and cohesion must exist between soldiers to make them effective. Distrust and dissension can be more dangerous than demolitions (sorry about the aliteration...)
Outside of combat, when the nation is at peace, that would be the time to try to deal with the problem. During deployment, all one does is undercut the soldiers that deal with the fallout of decisions that probably weren't meant to negatively affect them, but often do.
We have a volunteer service, now, if it were a draft, or had universal service, then your argument would be sound as the service was forced on those in question. This isn't the case though.
Sorry this post was so long, though I hope it helps you understand why so many of us civillians and soldiers are against it at this moment.
Mike
Mike...We have a volunteer service
January 3, 2009 - 06:03 ET by JerWe have a volunteer service, now, if it were a draft, or had universal service, then your argument would be sound as the service was forced on those in question. This isn't the case though.
That's a fair point, Mike. My personal view is just as ambivalent now as it was when Clinton brought the controversy to the fore shortly after he assumed office. Aside from the actual merits of the issue, I felt--considering Clinton's anti-military reputation--that it was a colossally stupid political decision.
At the time, I thought that at most it should be a limited undertaking within designated companies or battalions in order to better monitor the interaction and assess the pros and cons on an experimental basis.
That said, I recall seeing an interview around that time with a naval veteran of World War II who, in essence, said the following [paraphrasing]. Hell, we had a few sailors on our ship we knew were homosexuals, but it was never an issue. We didn't even think about it. We were all trying to win a war and everyone had a job to do. They did theirs just as well and with just as much dedication as anyone else. It was just no big deal.
I must admit, I thought his comments sounded pretty sensible.
Jer
Jer -- 100 years ago,
January 3, 2009 - 06:31 ET by Jack BauerJer -- 100 years ago, Winston Churchill famously described the Royal Navy as being comprised of "Rum, sodomy and the lash."
There are no secrets amongst men who serve. So has it always been.
But isn't the point this, at SOME POINT you have to take into account what the people who we ask to put their lives on the line actually think about the service.
And overwhelmingly they say they DO NOT WANT open recruitment and retention of homosexuals. They just do not want this. They are vehemently against this. They don't want to be serving with guys who openly stick beefcake on their locker doors.
Now I know what theshallow liberal response to this is: well, that's what "they" said about blacks. But that is a false analogy.
So no matter what the Politically Correct think, it would be nothing less than tyrannical to force their tiny minority viewpoint on the vast majority.
And for what? For what would you want to do this? "Equality" -- I don't think so.
Jack... Please don't
January 3, 2009 - 06:39 ET by JerJack...
Please don't think for a moment that I'm dismissing any of your arguments. As I said, I remain ambivalent about the issue, and, like you reject the political correctness and civil rights analogies.
I do think it possible that much of the anti-gay sentiment among the military is based on unwarranted fears. And, again, I'll point to the words of the World War II veteran which tend to bear that out.
And as far as historical antecedents, one only has to look at the most formidable warrior culture in world history--the Spartans--which had entire fighting units composed of homosexuals who were incredibly fierce and effective soldiers. And, I think it's generally accepted as fact that Alexander the Great was a homosexual.
But again, my mind is certainly not made up. I acknowledge there are very compelling counter-arguments, and you make some good ones.
Jer
no probs.
January 3, 2009 - 07:15 ET by Jack Bauerno probs.
From what I have read (never having served) in combat when it comes down to it, and sonone ir trying to kill you and your mates, men are only fighting for their buddy, their platoon, their unit. That's it.
So I think it's our duty to listen to what they say. If it turns out that the vast majority are comfortable with open homosexual recruitment, then I would go along with that too.
Jer, I don't blame you for your opinion.
January 3, 2009 - 06:36 ET by Michael30It is fine by me, regardless of any personal feelings on the matter that may exist, if a soldier, airman, seaman or marine wishes to believe that, but we must consider those that don't.
In WWII, almost the entire nation supported the war and the troops at the same time. We also had a draft as well as tactics that demonized the enemy.
Now we have a man about to assume the office of the presidency that believes that this war was a mistake. Whether he is correct or not should be left to historians smarter than myself, but for right now, it just seems incorrect to take political or social positions that further demoralize our troops.
We also no longer demonize our enemy but try to understand them. Now we want to also point out differences in our soldiers that can bring about only negative results at this point. This can be seen as a flawed way of going about war.
I am trying to look at this as a logical problem, and any way I look at it, it seems that this is a bad idea at the current moment. There is no upside to forcing soldiers to deal with any more stress than they are already under. It's about the numbers, there are simply more straight soldiers than there are homosexual soldiers. To make even 20 percent feel better at the cost of 80 percent, just seems like a mistake.
As I said, during peacetime, where accomodations and regulations can catch up, I have no opinion, that's between the government and its soldiers, but at the current combat conditions (I thought I was done with aliteration...) it just can't possibly be a safe time to enforce such an act. These guys are under enough pressure as it is without worrying about the ACLU at the moment.
Again, this is my opinion as a current civillian, I the point if current veterans think I am wrong.
Mike
P.S. Sorry it took so long Jer, I'm on dial-up, so it takes me a bit longer.
Well said,
January 3, 2009 - 06:41 ET by Mean Gene Dr. LoveWell said, Michael30.
I didn't even think about the lawsuits and the ACLU. It really would be opening a huge can of worms.
"An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life." --Robert A. Heinlein, "Beyond This Horizon," 1942
Dr. Love.
January 3, 2009 - 06:59 ET by Michael30I really am sorry my post was kind of butchered at the end. I meant to say that "I would concede the point" if current veterans disagreed. Tried to edit it, but got the Access Denied page. Not to competent at the computer thing at the moment.
Mike
No worries, Michael. You
January 3, 2009 - 07:02 ET by Mean Gene Dr. LoveNo worries, Michael.
You got the access denied message because I had already responded to your post. Once someone responds to a post, it can't be editted.
"An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life." --Robert A. Heinlein, "Beyond This Horizon," 1942
Well sir, that makes sense.
January 3, 2009 - 07:16 ET by Michael30Hence why the ASVAB told me to be an infantryman instead of an artillerist. Not too bright, you see.
Thanks for taking the time to explain it to me, I'm still trying to figure some of this stuff out. I'm really starting to think I graduated MSU on account of pity more than anything else.
Mike
Thanks for the follow-up, Mike.
January 3, 2009 - 06:50 ET by JerThanks for the follow-up, Mike. I'll give this some more thought and hopefully add to the discussion. It would be decidedly easier to debate you if I vehemently disagreed with you. But I don't.
Later, Jer
BTW, I have broadband, but my computer is so sluggish I guess I'm going to have to pay some techie to come clean it up. The highly-touted software I bought hasn't made any appreciable difference.
Jer...try CCleaner, it's
January 3, 2009 - 06:59 ET by Mean Gene Dr. LoveJer...try CCleaner, it's free: http://www.ccleaner.com/
"An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life." --Robert A. Heinlein, "Beyond This Horizon," 1942
Mean Gene...
January 3, 2009 - 07:31 ET by JerThanks for the suggestion. I'll try anything at this point--especially if it's free. I downloaded a clean-up software program a couple of weeks ago that I initially thought was $19.95 and then $34.95, and before I was able to complete the order somehow I had spent $94--and my computer is not a d*mn bit faster.
Jer
You are more than welcome Jer.
January 3, 2009 - 07:09 ET by Michael30I hope you didn't take that ACLU thing as a shot at you, because it wasn't meant to be.
I was what they call a "lurker" on this site long before I was a member. You and Shawn228 may hold different opinions than most people on this site, but as far as I've read for the last couple of months, you've both been very decent people.
We can have differing opinions on subjects and still remain civil. That's alot more than we can say about our own neighborhoods or families at times it seems. I'm not sure that is a good thing or not... Either way, it was a pleasure to talk to you tonight.
Mike
Thanks for the kind words, Michael.
January 3, 2009 - 07:24 ET by JerThanks for the kind words, Michael. That means a lot to me, and, the feeling is mutual.
Jer
If nothing else, we are both Americans.
January 3, 2009 - 07:42 ET by Michael30Jer,
We are all in this together. We may not always get along perfectly, but it's the best "Checks and Ballances" to be able to talk to people of other opinions. Heck, nobody bats 1,000 in life.
Gotta drive my father to a doc appt. Thanks for your opinion though, it won't be forgotten. Gonna need something to think about in the waiting room.
Mike
Godspeed and drive
January 3, 2009 - 08:02 ET by JerGodspeed and drive carefully, Mike. And I wish you and your dad health and happiness for the coming year.
Jer
"I figure if a person is
January 3, 2009 - 10:51 ET by txradioguy"I figure if a person is willing to give his life for his country, I don't see the problem with that person openly saying they are gay."
Then I want co-ed barracks rooms for my soldiers. I mean after all if we can give young gay folsk what THEY want...why can't we give the straight soldiers what theywant as well?
"I May Be Changed By War, But I Will Not Be Defeated By It" - Audie Murphy
Your not supposed to have sexual relations.....
January 3, 2009 - 10:58 ET by shawn228in the barracks regardless if you are gay or straight.
He had my vote
Obama as CINC makes me want
January 3, 2009 - 00:10 ET by TruthMongerObama as CINC makes me want to puke - dispicable, deplorable, irresponsible - this clueless and corrupt dweeb will cammand the world's greatest military? what an absolute joke
→ 10¢ Gas Tax
January 2, 2009 - 10:35 ET by Cool ArrowDems hit the ground runnin today with an attempt to increase the downward pressure on the economy.
Well duh!!!
January 2, 2009 - 10:36 ET by VT Con ManEvery liberal nanny leader has despised and scrapped our military since...well...for a long time. Why should the incoming nanny be any different?
Tail between the legs field training manuals anyone?
Sitting down and talking with our avowed enemies is the approach we will see. But, God forbid, there will be no interviews on FoxNews!!!
Nearly one-third of
January 2, 2009 - 10:37 ET by Dan The Man 2Nearly one-third of respondents — including eight out of 10 black service members — said they are optimistic about their incoming boss.
This probably says it all for the percentages. The Black vote is optimistic because they voted for him, so they have a stake in Obama and want to believe. Toto, we are not in Kansas anymore.
Nuke em til they glow then shoot em in the dark.
A day late
January 2, 2009 - 10:44 ET by ricklailI know this is not the sports thread but I was not able to get online yesterday and discuss the bowls. I am very disappointed in the performance of the ACC. They went 4-6 in bowl games. My Heels losing to WVa was the big let down but the butt whipping that LSU gave Ga Tech was hard to swallow.
The Pac 10 was 5-0
Big East 2-2
Big 10 2-4 with OSU yet to play
SEC 3-1 with Florida, Kentucky, Alabama and Ole Miss yet to play
Big 12 3-1 with Texas, Texas Tech and Oklahoma yet to play.
(I know the ACC figures are right but I won’t swear to the others.)
I knew that Noel would crow when Nebraska beat Clem’s son. I have been telling you all along that all the butt slapping, chest bumping, and back slapping that Dabo Sweeny does would not win games.
YOU CAN KEEP "THE CHANGE" PALIN 2012
The Pac 10 was 5-0 Only
January 3, 2009 - 03:48 ET by general companyThe Pac 10 was 5-0
Only 5 bowl eligible? Plus all but one played before 1/1/09?
SEC 3-1 with Florida, Kentucky, Alabama and Ole Miss yet to play
Who would had thought that Bama would be the one to let us down? Nick?
"Television is a freak show" Bernie Goldberg
rl... You're never gonna'
January 3, 2009 - 04:19 ET by bigtimerrl...
You're never gonna' understand this post of mine, but if it it wasn't for you post on this thread, I wouldn't of just now got what Noel meant to me on the Sports Thread the other day when I was referring to the USC/Penn game and he mentioned how boring it was compared to the game you are talking about here...
Ding Ding Ding!
Better late than never Noel...where ever you may be.
"America isn't the problem...America is the solution." ~ Rush Limbaugh
While I think BHO, unlike the Clintons,....
January 2, 2009 - 10:44 ET by Prester John....probably has some actual respect for those in the military and the military as in institution, the fact that he is totally clueless about how its culture, how it works, and how it should be used makes me glad that I retired from the Army several years ago.
But I am also very fearful since I have nephew in the National Guard who is deploying and a son who will soon be in the Guard.
Will he have any idea on how to NOT encourage and embolden our enemies and will he get the advice he needs to prevent doing so?
I told my Marine son-in-law
January 2, 2009 - 12:51 ET by ricklailI told my Marine son-in-law that he had something that Obama couldn't have got if he had not become president. He works on the electronic systems for the EA6 Prowler that the Marines and Navy use for electronic warfare. I don't know for sure but I image his clearance is a Secret at least. There is no way Obama could get any type clearance based on what I know about the process.
YOU CAN KEEP "THE CHANGE" PALIN 2012
I told my Marine son-in-law
January 2, 2009 - 12:52 ET by ricklailI told my Marine son-in-law that he had something that Obama couldn't have got if he had not become president. He works on the electronic systems for the EA6 Prowler that the Marines and Navy use for electronic warfare. I don't know for sure but I image his clearance is a Secret at least. There is no way Obama could get any type clearance based on what I know about the process.
YOU CAN KEEP "THE CHANGE" PALIN 2012
Note how they qualify the
January 2, 2009 - 10:50 ET by motherbeltNote how they qualify the numbers:
six out of 10 active-duty service members say they are uncertain or pessimistic, according to a Military Times survey.
just flat....no significance.
Nearly one-third of respondents — including eight out of 10 black service members — said they are optimistic about their incoming boss. (emphasis mine)
The "nearly" is meant to make the number seem more important than it is.
I notice they didn't describe the six out of ten as "more than half."
Nearly 1/3 is something
January 2, 2009 - 19:46 ET by ThisnThatNearly 1/3 is something like 31%, 32%. 6 out of 10 is 60%. There's a missing gap of 8-9% here. Their statement should have been "nearly 70% of active-duty service members say they are uncertain or pessimistic".
Good catch, MB!
___________________________________
If you can read this, thank a teacher. If it is in English, thank a Soldier. - My barber
Why would they have confidence in him....?
January 2, 2009 - 10:53 ET by superconIf Obama had his way before the mission in Iraq would have been abandoned in disgrace and humiliation regardless of the consequences because he wanted to use it as a political tool.He never chaired a single meeting of his military oversight committee.The only time he is interested in visiting with the troops is for a campaign stop.
That is his record.It's not a distraction.It's not a Republican talking point. It's the truth.Obama is a liberal just like all the rest who believes that America itself is to blame for the war on terror and to my knowledge has never once condemned any of our enemies or used the word "victory."He believes that all we need to do is show our enemies that we mean them no harm and they will stop their campaign and all go home.
The military has seen him in action...or should I say inaction and they don't like it.
Barack Obama is an empty suit and no amount of good press coverage can change that.For the first time in his whole political career he will actually have to take responsibility for something and unfortunately for us all it will be in the White House surrounded by Clinton retreads.
Well said supercon!!!!!
January 2, 2009 - 12:54 ET by BEGRUNT"Barack Obama is an empty suit and no amount of good press coverage can
change that.For the first time in his whole political career he will
actually have to take responsibility for something and unfortunately
for us all it will be in the White House surrounded by Clinton
retreads." That comment nailed it!!!!!!!! Well Done!!!
"If a man does his best, what else is there"?
General George S. Patton Jr.
SuperCon I agree
January 2, 2009 - 13:03 ET by ahusserBut all failures will be blamed on GWB and the GOP. The problems Bush caused blah blah blah were worse, insurmountable, intractable, unfixable blah blah blah. The whole lib ethos is it is always someone else's fault. Criticism of the O will be verboten, spun, deflected and projected onto others.
Change: When the winds of change blow hard enough, the most trivial of things can become deadly projectiles. From a Poster
Absolutely.
January 2, 2009 - 13:39 ET by supercon"But all failures will be blamed on GWB and the GOP. The problems Bush
caused blah blah blah were worse, insurmountable, intractable,
unfixable blah blah blah."
They will coast on that as long as possible.
We will now have Obama and the Clintons back in the White House and the media will be right there in their pocket just like the old days.This time around however the old media machine is much weaker and they have lot's of competition.
supercon, appeasement is ...
January 2, 2009 - 12:59 ET by SentryDansupercon, appeasement is the watchword of the liberals. The terrorism we see today first came on the scene at the Summer Olympics in 1972.
Obama probably doesn't remember or doesn't want to remember, or subscribes it as being caused by either the US or Israel. The appeasers; the European leaders, Carter, Clinton, and now Obama; have placed the US, Israel and the rest of the world in a very serious situation.
If Obama shows weakness (and there is no doubt in my ex-military mind that he will) the terrorists will be all over Israel and our allies reeking havoc and the terrorists chances of obtaining nuclear weapons will significantly increase.
The United States is the glue that keeps this crazy world together. No other country on earth has been able to project power the way the United States has. The only thing "We the People" have to look forward to right now is a wild ride that just might end up with us losing our Freedoms and becoming a member country in the world socialist order. This may be the change that "the One" promised.
Hang tough friends because "We the People" just may have to fight for our Freedoms once again.
Remember folks, Freedom isn't Free. It was bought with the blood and sacrifice of the men and women who are serving and who have served in the U.S. Armed Forces.
For those who fought for it, Freedom has a flavor that the protected will never know.
Has it ever worked....?
January 2, 2009 - 13:40 ET by superconEven once...?
Appeasement?
Nope
January 2, 2009 - 13:51 ET by ahusserBut they feel good after patting each other on the back. Watched a show called Hitler's Bodyguards. Upshot. There was a credible assassination plot by some on the German high command just prior to the invasion of the Sudetenland (Czechslovakia) by Hitler. The only stipulation was the assurance that the Brits would declare war in the event of the invasion. Once war was declared the plot would go through and the government overthrown with Hitler assassinated. Instead of standing up to Hitler Chamberlain appeased him instead with 'Peace in our time' BS. I imagine the results would have been different with Churchill in power at that time instead of Chamberlain. The law of unintended consequences is always at work.
Change: When the winds of change blow hard enough, the most trivial of things can become deadly projectiles. From a Poster
→ We're Baack
January 2, 2009 - 12:24 ET by Cool ArrowObviously leftist hooligans tried to crash the site.
wow
January 2, 2009 - 12:28 ET by choselife3xSo it wasn't just me. That really freaked me out. 40 minutes without NB. I was starting to get the shakes.
In order to be pro-choice, one must first be born. Ah, the irony.
→ NB withdrawals
January 2, 2009 - 12:34 ET by Cool ArrowI'm thinking Congress did it so they could discuss a $.10 increase in gas taxes without having to listen to us.
How often does that happen?
January 2, 2009 - 12:37 ET by choselife3xAnd can they do anything about whoever did that?!
In order to be pro-choice, one must first be born. Ah, the irony.
It's not necessarily a
January 2, 2009 - 12:53 ET by motherbeltIt's not necessarily a hacker...could be just a server problem.
Doesn't happen often.
You all should have been around NB back in the old days.
January 2, 2009 - 17:52 ET by R D HelmThis place would cr*sh if a satellite passed over, and sometimes would stay down for many hours.
What was even worse was, you could be in the middle of composing a really long post and POOF! it would just up and disappear right in front of you.
LOL-If Drudge had linked to us back then, it would have been fatal.
-Dave
“Them that’s going get on the wagon. Them that ain’t get out of the way.”
Climate 'Scientists' Are Back
January 2, 2009 - 12:27 ET by JDWNew consensus reveals that CO2 cuts have failed: Time to implement Plan B
JDW
DAILY WAVE
Whatever else you think, your mother and my mother are both mothers
→ Our fragile Ecosystem
January 2, 2009 - 12:30 ET by Cool ArrowAnd it appears all these government attempts to bring Flex-Fuel online in its fleets has served only produce a referendum on Ethanol.
Seems nobody's using Ethanol with good old gasoline selling cheaper.
Go Green, guys. Go ahead and start without me on this boondoggle.
Ethanol
January 2, 2009 - 12:36 ET by JDWYou're right.
Ethanol is not price competitive.
JDW
DAILY WAVE
Whatever else you think, your mother and my mother are both mothers
→ Let them starve
January 2, 2009 - 12:41 ET by Cool ArrowThe US Government is more concerned with making itself feeeeel good about their carbon footprint than eliminating any measure of hunger in the world.
'more concerned with...'
January 2, 2009 - 13:07 ET by JDWControl
JDW
DAILY WAVE
Whatever else you think, your mother and my mother are both mothers
JDW... Total Control "
January 2, 2009 - 17:57 ET by bigtimerJDW...
Total
Control
"America isn't the problem...America is the solution." ~ Rush Limbaugh
→ Harriet Reid
January 2, 2009 - 12:27 ET by Cool ArrowWhat are the chances the Democrat Racist Hatemongers will succeed in keeping the darkskinned Senator from Illinois out of their midst?
Harriet Reid did say he would block anybody Blago appointed, didn't he?
Well, we should have known Harriet was that way.
GET THE POPCORN READY!!
January 2, 2009 - 12:55 ET by motherbeltDemocrats Have a Plan if Burris shows up!
→ Excellent mb !!
January 2, 2009 - 13:26 ET by Cool ArrowIf they try to keep him out, I hope Burris has the fortitude of Martin Luther King, Rosa Parks, and James Meredith, who also stood up against racism in their day.
Maybe Harriet Reid and his close advisor Robert Byrd have the guard dogs and firehoses at the ready, but right is right, and wrong is wrong.
Way to go Dems! You just can't help but let your racism show!
I'.ll bet if it was lily white Caroline Kennedy you wouldn't be standing on all thatprocedural nonsense.
Oh! Waitaminnit! We already know the answer to that one.
So Using the Left's Sarah Palin Standards . . .
January 2, 2009 - 12:30 ET by Caringwhiteguy1) Who is more qualified to be a US Senator, Roland Burris or Sweet Caroline?
2) Is Sweet Caroline qualified at all?
3) Which one will they seat?
→ I vote Burris
January 2, 2009 - 12:32 ET by Cool ArrowAnything that racist Harriet Reid is for, I'm against.
Every Right To Be Weary
January 2, 2009 - 12:32 ET by txradioguyYes we have reason to we not just weary but downright worried as hell over what he will do with those of us in the military.
The only good thing about The Rookie hiring all of the Clinton retreads is that Les Aspin won't be one of them.
The Dems are already clamoring about cutting 20% out of an already small Defense budget.
I lived through the Clinton DoD "budgets". I've heard the stories about what the military was like under Carter. For at least a couple years it won't be pretty.
"I May Be Changed By War, But I Will Not Be Defeated By It" - Audie Murphy
I think that their fear is warranted.
January 2, 2009 - 12:42 ET by c5thenSimilar to Clinton (only worse) Obama and the left will probably use the US military as the core vanguard to UN troops to further the global socialist agenda. That means as "peacekeepers" in Gaza to prevent Israel from defending it's self. That means "peacekeepers" in Africa to support socialist dictators. Remember Srebreinica where UN "peacekeepers" watched as hundreds of men and boys were lined up and executed by the Serbs? Remember Mogadishu where UN "peacekeepers" refused to mobilize for hours as a company of US Marines was fighting for their lives against hundreds of terrorists?
This is what the US military fears.
Hey, I got the wrong "CHANGE"!
Alan Keyes / Sarah Palin - 2012
Just want to clear up that
January 2, 2009 - 15:40 ET by Scuba DudeJust want to clear up that in Mogadishu it was Rangers and members of the Delta force that were battling in the streets.
Clinton did not approve armor or cover by AC 130 gunships, that and the fact that the mission was in broad daylight as opposed to nightime ops at which the US excelled at caused the death of those brave men.
Why do I feel with Bambi in charge we might see a few more Mogadishu's?
The special operators
January 3, 2009 - 11:04 ET by txradioguyThe special operators weren't the only ones kicking in doors in Mogadishu.
You also had 1st Bde. 10th Mountain Div. They took a lot of casualties over there.
"I May Be Changed By War, But I Will Not Be Defeated By It" - Audie Murphy
The special operators
January 3, 2009 - 11:04 ET by txradioguyThe special operators weren't the only ones kicking in doors in Mogadishu.
You also had 1st Bde. 10th Mountain Div. They took a lot of casualties over there.
"I May Be Changed By War, But I Will Not Be Defeated By It" - Audie Murphy
So while I was locked out
January 2, 2009 - 12:45 ET by choselife3xI checked out Drudge.
Notice how this story tells you what the MUSLIMS 'said' they said, but didn't get a quote from the people who originally heard them.
http://www.washingto...
In order to be pro-choice, one must first be born. Ah, the irony.
President Elect Hubris
January 2, 2009 - 12:47 ET by Jack BauerMaybe the military sees that the hubris of Obama, and his slobbering acolytes, has reached a height to which we have seldom been privileged to witness in public.
The Office of the President Elect being but a glorious manifestation of their hubris; and the cause of endless mocking amongst those of us still inclined to prick the pompous facade of the insufferably self-righteous.
In Greek tragedy this excessive pride or hubris was eventually punished by the Greek Goddess, Nemesis.
Now the media hacks generally know what a creepy, thin-skinned, easily annoyed, and essentially unlikeable person Barack Obama is. He was very unpopular with the travelling Hack Corps during the campaign.
Of course, he had/has his homo-erotically charged camp followers, like Chris Matthews, Matt Lauer and others.
And the female hackettes of a certain age all carry a spare set of metaphorical panties to throw at him Tom Jones style.
But generally one gets the impression most, in their hearts, recognized a huckster when they saw one.
But the rub was this, they are still Democrats; and still wanted the extreme lefty Democrat elected.
A sort of forced "Support the Mission, but not the troops' leader."
So will this last? And if not, who or what will be Obama's nemesis.
Will he fly, Icarus like, too near the New York Sun and fall to the ground under a barrage of actual journalism?
Maybe the late British Prime Minister, Harold McMillan gives us a clue. When asked by a journalist what was most likely to blow governments off course, he replied in typical laconic style: "Events dear boy, events."
Events are going to happen to the Obama administration, in buckets. They already are, because he is, after all, the President Elect doncha know?
It hardly helps that one of the moustachioed faces of the new administration is also extremely unpleasant: David Axelrod, ugly on the inside and the outside.
A mordant face to launch a thousand shits in his image. Easily annoyed, and visibly bristling at being asked even a half decent real question, Axelrod is ripe for an on-air confrontation in which he comes off as the uber-jerk.
So it will be interesting to see whether the media finally realizes its job is as nemesis to Obama’s endless hubris.
Or maybe events themselves will be the nemesis, overwhelming the carefully constructed façade of “competence” that rests on a foundation of thin air, and white media complicity in not treating a black candidate with the same skepticism it treats white politicians? (Sorry, someone has to state the obvious.)
It may take a while, though. Let’s hope it happens in the first term at least.
Gee Jack
January 2, 2009 - 12:57 ET by BlondeFeeling a tad down today?
I didn't think it was possible for anyone to be more pompous than John F'ing...but since you put it that way, I may have to change my mind.
Cheer up, four years isn't that long...although it certainly may seem to be.
hey blonde! I was aiming
January 2, 2009 - 13:08 ET by Jack Bauerhey blonde! I was aiming for upbeat here.
I had prviously assumed the media would spend the next four years covering for him. That depressed me no end since November.
But I'm now thinking the hubris is so laughable from Team Obama that they are heading for a massive fall.
And like all the King's horses and all the King's men no one will be able to put the Humpty Obamaty back togehter again!
I feel good!
Wow, if that was upbeat
January 2, 2009 - 13:32 ET by BlondeI'd hate to see you when you were really down.
Hubris is a perfect word for Obama & his crew. In fact, I think they ought to have their picture in the dictionary.
Well, the bigger they (egos) come, the harder they fall.
Interesting times, my friend.
This photo in all its variations
January 2, 2009 - 12:49 ET by ahusserhas been floating around the internet for a while now. But I see it as the new model for the USN under Obama.
Change: When the winds of change blow hard enough, the most trivial of things can become deadly projectiles. From a Poster
ahusser...here are a few more
January 2, 2009 - 13:07 ET by BlondePictures and capabilities, about the USS Reagan, and of course, the newest addition to the fleet...the USS Bill Clinton.
Capabilities of the Clinton include:
The ship is the first of its kind in the Navy and is a standing legacy to President Bill Clinton "for his foresight in military budget cuts" and his conduct while president.
The ship is constructed nearly entirely from recycled aluminum and is completely solar powered with a top speed of 5 knots.
It boasts an arsenal comprised of one (unarmed) F14 Tomcat or one (unarmed) F18 Hornet aircraft which although they cannot be launched or captured on the 100 foot flight deck form a very menacing presence.
As a standing order there are no firearms allowed on board.
The 20 person crew is completely diversified, including members of all races, creeds, sex, and sexual orientation.
This crew, like the crew aboard the USS Jimmy Carter, is specially trained to avoid conflicts and appease any and all enemies of the United States at all costs!
An onboard Type One DNC Universal Translator can send out messages of apology in any language to anyone who may find America offensive. The number of apologies are limitless and though some may sound hollow and disingenuous, the Navy advises all apologies will sound very sincere.
The ship's purpose is not defined so much as a unit of national defense, but instead in times of conflict, the USS Clinton has orders to seek refuge in Canada.
Thanks Blonde LOL sounds like
January 2, 2009 - 13:14 ET by ahusserAll the things the Runocrats er Democrats stand for if implemented would be the USS Clinton personified.
Change: When the winds of change blow hard enough, the most trivial of things can become deadly projectiles. From a Poster
There was a great YouTube
January 2, 2009 - 13:28 ET by Blondeof this, starting with the USS Reagan, amazing stuff...then it had the Clinton, and ended with the Obama.
I tried to find it, IIRC the title was something USS Reagan, but alas, there are about a thousand entries. I'd seen the Clinton pic before, that was much easier to find.
But I think the "capabilities" of the Clinton will be mirrored by the Obama administration, it won't be long before he tries something stupid like the "peace dividend".
I said it on yesterday's stupid comment thread, Joe & Bambi are dangerous for the military, and I for one, am very, very worried.
I got that feeling
January 2, 2009 - 13:36 ET by ahusserThat the money for all the handouts er bailouts er loans will have to come from somewhere. The military Peter will have to be robbed to pay for the welfare/handout Paul.
Change: When the winds of change blow hard enough, the most trivial of things can become deadly projectiles. From a Poster
Obama
January 2, 2009 - 13:07 ET by iveseenitallBarry is an incompetent Chicago thug. He's the first Affirative Action President of the United States. America will pay dearly for electing a socialist manchild. But as the "liberals" would say, "He looks so cool in those shades". Say "wow" and then weep for this nation.
NEVER,NEVER trust a "liberal"
I'm a USMC veteran
January 2, 2009 - 13:42 ET by BKeyserI served 1986-1992; November, 1992. I saw the writing on the wall that elevction year, and when it became apparent that Clinton would likely win the presidency, I opted out of the service. There were other reasons, but that was the nail in the coffin for me; honestly, I probably would have re-uped if Bush would've looked like the likely winner. Ultimately, I couldn't serve under a man that so disrespected everything that I was at the time; a uniformed soldier, or more distinctly, a Marine Corps Sergeant.
'Don't ask, don't tell' made it worse. Not that I was worried about somebody looking at me in the shower; that's not intimidating or threatening, and frankly- wouldn't happen often enough to worry about. It's simply my opinion that most homosexuals are not cut out to be strict disciplinarians. They tend to want to buck the system, play by their own rules and not follow blindly the authority of anyone they disagree with. Homosexuals, many of them at least -especially as the lifestyle has gained in popularity so significantly during the PC years of Clinton- place so much stock in their ability to display openly their homosexuality, they don't have the mindset for the regiment of military service. My guess is there are a not whole helluva lot of gay cops (outside of the village people, that is) either. Suffice it to say, some people just aren't cut out for certain things. Certainly, there are many many straight people not cut out for military service, but by-and-large, I could not trust an openly gay squad member. And trust is everything in the service.
As for Obama- I could not serve under him either. He simply does not respect our men and women in uniform. And I don't care how many libs try to tell me that they support the troops but not the war- while a war is underway, any outward antithesis in a public forum against a war in which Soldiers, Seamen, Airmen and Marines are in harms-way, is not supporting those brave men and women. There is no way to spin it- if you're anti-war, you're anti-troops. You can debate the merits or execution of a war before and after, but once sons and daughters are being shot at, support means providing everything necessary to bring them home alive. Incentivising the enemy by publicly declaring your decent is, in my view, detrimental to the welfare of the troops. And oddly enough, it is usually the defient ones who suddenly start blaming -and prosecuting- the same troops they say they support. Again, not my definition of support.
Obama has been ardently anti-war (either by way of his personal beliefs or as a means to a political end- which says everything you need to know about this guy- we don't really know what he believes...) during a war, and for that reason alone, will not earn the respect of the majority of service members. Like with homosexuals, most will not be able to trust him. White, black, orange or purple- his race is immaterial. He does not show the utmost respect for a man or woman who would blindly lay their life on the line for the sake of this country and everyone living here- he does not deserve to be CINC.
Any attempt to interact with service members will be met mostly with caution by the members; will be revered by the adorning press as his selfless respect for their contributions to a war they neither wanted nor deserved; and seen for exactly what it is by political insiders- a photo op for political gain.
He rates only a left-hand salute.
Here endeth my rant.
BKeyser...great rant!
January 2, 2009 - 13:52 ET by BlondePre-surge, I posted a forum topic in response to one of our resident liberal's incessant posting of "I support the troops but not the war".
Unfortunately, since then, NB had a serious crash and the content of that has been lost, but several of our military members weighed in. CGatton (hey Clyde!) wrote the most incredible takedown of the stupid "support the troops but not the war" liberal mantra I've ever seen. Oh how I wish it were still available. It was a literate thing of beauty.
Your rant comes close...and you hit all of the high points, and some new ones, as Clyde's was pre-The One. The most excellent point you've added is this:
So I thank you for both your service, and for laying out for readers here, in a beautiful fashion, what the issues are truly about.
Keep on ranting.
Thank you Blonde
January 2, 2009 - 14:10 ET by BKeyserToo often our military gets overlooked and is under-appreciated. And anyone, in my view, who shows disdain for the honor and courage to serve, does not deserve the right to be in the chain of command.
Not here, BKeyser
January 2, 2009 - 14:22 ET by BlondeSo you've come to the right place. Glad you're here.
And your last sentence in the post above, deserves kudos as well. Thank you for saying so well what most of us here are thinking.
I like to brag about my
January 2, 2009 - 14:44 ET by ricklailI like to brag about my son-in-laws. One is an E-6 in the Marines. He was just transferred back here to Cherry Point after having been an instructor for 3-1/2 years at Corry Station in Pensacola. I am not sure which squadron of EA6 Prowlers he has been assigned to but they are readying for deployment in May.
The other one is an E-6 Navy (Reserve) Corpsman assigned to a Marine Corps Reserve unit out of Johnson City, TN. You may just as will call him a Marine because he trains with them. They are readying for Deployment in May also.
My dad retired as a Command SGT Major. Me I spent my 2 years in the Army and got out.
You'll never heard me say anything bad about the men and women who are serving and have served. Now as far as Commander in Chief goes, like Obama, that is a different story.
YOU CAN KEEP "THE CHANGE" PALIN 2012
Hey Rick!
January 2, 2009 - 15:27 ET by BlondeWelcome back...I missed you my football friend.
The best to you and yours....a Happy New Year to all of your family, and thanks from me, and mine for their service.
BKeyser
January 2, 2009 - 19:15 ET by JerI assume you would want to extend your outrage to conservatives, such as Bill Buckley, who spoke out against our continued intervention in Iraq....And to those on the right who were railing against our bombing campaign in Kosovo while our young airmen were actually in the process of carrying out those raids.
You might also take a look at the list of all of the "pro-military" Republicans and neocons who somehow managed to avoid service in Vietnam. It's very enlightening.
Jer
....And to those on the
January 2, 2009 - 22:57 ET by BD....And to those on the right who were railing against our bombing campaign in Kosovo while our young airmen were actually in the process of carrying out those raids.
You might also take a look at the list of all of the "pro-military" Republicans and neocons who somehow managed to avoid service in Vietnam. It's very enlightening.
BD... SHACK! I wish you
January 2, 2009 - 23:03 ET by bigtimerBD...
SHACK!
I wish you and yours the very best for the coming New Year.
"America isn't the problem...America is the solution." ~ Rush Limbaugh
Vielen dank, and the same to
January 2, 2009 - 23:09 ET by BDVielen dank, and the same to you as well.
A very significant
January 3, 2009 - 00:05 ET by JerWhat do either of those points have to do with my statement about neocons and Vietnam?
However, regarding the 80% poll number. That seems a little high but I have no doubt that a solid majority self-identify as conservative. Are you aware of the Democrat-Republican split? For example, I have always considered myself pro-military and an advocate of a strong national defense. Does that make me a conservative on that issue? The wording of the polling questions might also point the respondent in a certain direction. Also, the Republican right has been very effective in portraying Democrats and liberal as "haters" of the military. It's a favorite talking point of conservative talk show hosts, and after a period of time hammering on the point, it begins to resonate with the audience [including members of the military].
Regarding your second point, what exactly is your point? There are likewise a number of extremist groups which self-identify as conservatives.
However, I will freely admit that there is more anti-military sentiment on the left than the right.
So, in 2020 we will likely see a series of races between a conservative candidate who can claim service as a platoon leader in Iraq in compared to his opponent who will be able to claim that they did something like picket a military recruiting station or throw feces on MP's at a gate somewhere.
I wouldn't be so sure. I think there are a fair number of veterans who ran as Democrats and won in the recent elections. And there have been considerably more Democrat than Republican senators who were Vietnam veterans.
Jer
Sorry about the confusing formatting
Non-sequiturs
January 3, 2009 - 05:06 ET by JWF"What do either of those points have to do with my statement about neocons and Vietnam?"
This from the King of non sequiturs! THE KING I SAY!
Sincerely,
a Veteran of a 1000 psychic wars.
What do either of those
January 3, 2009 - 11:58 ET by BDWhat do either of those points have to do with my statement about neocons and Vietnam?
However, regarding the 80% poll number. That seems a little high but I have no doubt that a solid majority self-identify as conservative. Are you aware of the Democrat-Republican split?
For example, I have always considered myself pro-military and an advocate of a strong national defense. Does that make me a conservative on that issue?
Also, the Republican right has been very effective in portraying Democrats and liberal as "haters" of the military.
It's a favorite talking point of conservative talk show hosts, and after a period of time hammering on the point, it begins to resonate with the audience [including members of the military].
Regarding your second point, what exactly is your point? There are likewise a number of extremist groups which self-identify as conservatives.
However, I will freely admit that there is more anti-military sentiment on the left than the right.
I think there are a fair number of veterans who ran as Democrats and won in the recent elections.
And there have been considerably more Democrat than Republican senators who were Vietnam veterans.
Hello BD, please allow me to put in my 2 cents.
January 3, 2009 - 13:47 ET by JWFI was in the Navy for a few years, ok a little bit more than that.
The military CREATES Republicans. Republicans take care of the military. You spend 20 years ready to die in the defense of the Constitution. That is what we defend. Not the people, or land, or government. We defend the Constitution. That gives you a definite bent toward conservatism. After all, that is what conservatives are conserving, the principles in the Declaration of Independence and Constitution.
I joined the American Legion a few years back. Guess what I am still required to defend? Yep, to uphold and defend the constitution of the United States. I am also required to promote 100% Amercanism. So watch out Mr. BD. I see you starting to slip to somewhere around 94%, 93% , I am gonna be on you to get those stats up.
Pro-military makes you Republican. Strong national defense makes you conservative.
The last 2 elections have put me into an absolute frothing at the mouth insane fit. First we had John Kerry who went before Congress and passed on 3rd hand lies about his fellow soldiers while there were soldiers still under fire in Vietnam.
Then we had Obama who refused to wear a flag pin because there were better ways to show patriotism, (honering the flag is the HIGHEST form of patriotism) said we were air raiding villages and killing civilians, (something we have not done since the Vietnam war, (carpet bombing) nearly our entire arsenal is now precision guided weaponry) and then advocated cutting and running from a war we started and WERE WINNING. He was up against Sen. McCain, a Vietnam vet that spent 5 years in a POW prison, if there is a higher scacrifice for this country outside of dying for it, I would be hard pressed to find what that would be. This may have been the final slap in the face for Vietnams vets. They are getting too old to be running for President now.
It is outright leftist propaganda to claim dictators, fascists, and other terrorist type outfits are on the right. The left/right dichotomy is collectivism (left) vs capitalism (right) and the Constitution and Declaration of Independence lie squarely on the right.
It is their favorite propaganda tool. They are fully aware that the left spawn thugs, dictators, and fascists. Collectivism and all it sisters give too much power to too few. So they move a few of their favorites to the other side. This gives them equal weighting and allows them to claim evil comes from both sides. NO. It comes from the left and only the left.
I ran across a site that listed the number of veterans in Congress by war, I don't recall if it listed them by party, boy I wish I could remember what that site was.
Sincerely,
a Veteran of a 1000 psychic wars.
Nice. Pick on a dead man.
January 3, 2009 - 03:05 ET by JWFWilliam F. Buckley died before he could see the success that came after the dark days and realize he was wrong. And as a good man, he most probably would have admitted he was wrong.
Others just continue to drive up a one way street. (clue, clue, clue)
Yes. Ahhhh. Continued intervention. NONSTOP! ONE HUNDRED YEARS! The SOFA Agreement went info effect as of 1Jan2009. We are now in Iraq AT THE REQUEST of the IRAQI government. Yes. Now that is intervening all right. Not being disingenuous now are we Mr. Jer?
And AGAIN with the whining over a war we started and now have almost completed. Almost 6 YEARS later. Hey Mr. Jer, who sunk the Maine? Did we really need to invade Mexico? What was up with the battle of New Orleans? I mean COME ON PEOPLE the war was over! Seriously did we really really really have to dump all that tea in the harbor? Cuz you know, someone is gonna be cheesed!
Ohhhhh. That lovely fallacious argument AGAIN!. You cannot criticise/run/advocate a war/any war unless you have served/are serving/will serve. You cannot run a donut shop until you have lived the life of a donut hole. You cannot run a taco shop unless you are mexican. You cannot be enlightened until you have sat at the feet of teh master Jer.
I answer thusly. Like a true scotsman, you cannot truly discuss anything military related until you have personally killed/been killed in hand to hand combat, THEN and only then can you have porridge like a true scotsman and/or disparage/cheer the military!
Sincerely,
a Veteran of a 1000 psychic wars.
Whose picking on Bill
January 3, 2009 - 03:13 ET by JerWhose picking on Bill Buckley, JWF. Not I. Besides, he has always been one of my favorite conservative thinkers--as well as publisher, author, pundit, and all-round renaissance man.
Go back and read my initial comment carefully. Do you even know to whom, to what and to which part of the post I responded. If so, then my point should be crystal clear.
Afterwards, you need to distill and clarify the rest of your rambling stream of thought.. The best I can tell, your military history references patently mischaracterize my views, but it would help if you could focus your argument a little more sharply.
Jer
You are certainly a piece of work.
January 3, 2009 - 04:28 ET by JWFYou presented Bill Buckley as the best example of a criticism of the war. It was your best example, otherwise you would have picked someone even better to present as an argument. Bill Buckley was critical of the war during the darkest hour and then DIED shortly thereafter. But even in his criticism, he never advocated CUTTING & RUNNING. He wanted us to admit that what we were doing was failing and to TRY SOMETHING ELSE.
You were picking on a dead man because he never lived to see his criticism was off base.
Here we go again. Making demands. Now I have to REREAD both Bkeyser's post and your reply because somehow I am incapable of comprehending the english that is written in front of MY VERY OWN EYES. Any statement you make should be able to stand on it's own merits. I should not have to read, reread, then reread again every little post in every little thread to be able to comprehend that you are a complete loon and make very little sense on a warm sunny day when the few brain cells you have left have WARMED UP!
The only thing crystal clear is your consistent nonstop use of falacious arguments.
BKeyser made 2 points. He got out rather than serve under Clinton. Obama got in by being anti-war. You cannot be anti-war and be pro-troop because the troops ARE fighting the war you are against.
He spoke SPECIFICALLY about Obama. You attempted YET AGAIN to enlarge the argument and turn it into a general grievance against ALL republicans and conservatives or the war or god knows what else you want to throw in.
And for the love of all that gallops and hops, please quit telling me what to do. reread. distill. clarify. focus. I respond to your rambling screeds indicting half of humanity. I get demands for more more more in return. You want people to respond in a coherent manner, MAKE A COHERENT ARGUMENT.
Sincerely,
a Veteran of a 1000 psychic wars.
PS: who's is a contraction of who is
I've been reading this
January 3, 2009 - 04:39 ET by bigtimerI've been reading this diatribe between you two (it's your turn in the sack with Jer, he gets around)...
I am roaring with laughter here JWF...I can't help it...just this line of yours did me in...
And for the love of all that gallops and hops, please quit telling me what to do.
gallops and hops?...I have never ever heard that before, but I LOVE IT!
If you could really, truly know the laughter I am getting from this...you may be laughing too...could be contagious.
Thanks is all I can say at this time of the morning...well, heck, anytime actually.
"America isn't the problem...America is the solution." ~ Rush Limbaugh
You know, bt... JWF can
January 3, 2009 - 05:14 ET by JerYou know, bt...
JWF can take care of himself. He really doesn't need you or Clear Thinker to "cover his back".
Jer
I do it for you bigtimer!
January 3, 2009 - 05:20 ET by JWFGod knows I will never get through to teh Jer. It is nighttime here. The sun has not been out to warm up his brain cells.
My new motto just for bigtimer:
Slappin teh hippies. Kickin teh hoboes. Humoring the rational.
Sincerely,
a Veteran of a 1000 psychic wars.
JWF & Jer
January 3, 2009 - 05:55 ET by MrShyI gotta say, this is one of the most entertaining threads I've read in a long time... something about two J's butting heads, perhaps.
JWF, especially, deserves the real high marks for bushel-loads of lines, not the least of which are:
"You cannot run a donut shop until you have lived the life of a donut hole."
Oh man.... if I had a beer, and I drank beer, I'd be crackin' open another one.... carry on!
You're the next contestant on...
THE MESSIAH IS... LEFT !!
You were picking on a
January 3, 2009 - 05:08 ET by JerYou were picking on a dead man because he never lived to see his criticism was off base.
That is unadulterated nonsense, JWF. It is outrageously, insultingly, untrue. Who are you to presume to tell me my motives in choosing Bill Buckley as a prominent example of someone on the political right who had spoken out against the war. If you want me to treat you with more respect, then stop spewing out ridiculous claptrap and make responsible arguments. When you fail to do so, it suggests to me that you either haven't read my comments, or you have completely failed to understand them.
For the record, I chose Buckley because he is arguably the most formidable conservative intellect of the last half century. It had absolutely nothing to do with his death last year. Indeed, George Will, another outstanding conservative thinker, could have likewise served as an example. Both of these gentlemen had been critical of the war while it was being waged, and it seemed to me somewhat hypocritical to only tar liberal war critics as anti-military, or even implicitly anti-patriotic, because of that criticism.
My argument was neither obtuse nor incoherent. But, since you obviously were unable to understand it, I thought it only appropriate to ask you to reread the posts in question.
Now, maybe I'm having unwarranted difficulty comprehending certain parts of your commentary. So, tell me, what do the Mexican war, the Spanish-American war, the Boston tea party, etc. have to do with this discussion?
Jer
I can see how you would be hurt.
January 3, 2009 - 05:50 ET by JWFYes. I am quite sorry. Far be it for me to point out the flaws in your logic or the holes in your arguments. I can see how that can be construed as INSULTINGLY untrue. I can imagine how you might take offense at those statements rather than MY ACTUAL AD HOMINEM ATTACKS. You know like your cold brain cells or the loon part or calling you a liberal (though that has to hurt).
Ok Mr. bossy non sequitur man. I am not going to tell you anything. You don't understand something I said, LOOK IT UP, or go ask mom in the next room. Either way, stop bossing me around.
If I have said something factually incorrect. POINT IT OUT. Telling me to reread, repost, retell, rekanoodle gets you nowhere.
Yes, you are having unwarranted difficulty comprehending certain parts of my commentary. That much is painfully clear.
Sincerely,
a Veteran of a 1000 psychic wars.
Good grief, junior... I
January 3, 2009 - 06:20 ET by JerGood grief, junior...
I feel like I'm debating a sixth grader. I explained it to you kindergarten style. You don't have to google anything, open a dictionary, run to bt or do anything other than state your position in response to my clear assertions. It's really not that hard. If you can't do it, then run along.
Jer
I will sum up (again!)
January 3, 2009 - 07:07 ET by JWFBkeyser: Incentivising the enemy by publicly declaring your decent is, in my view, detrimental to the welfare of the troops.
Jer: But (sniff) Bill Buckley was critical (sniff)(whine)
Me: Mr. Buckley was critical of the operation of the war and suggested changing tactics. He never advocated cutting & running, Obama did. And BUCKELY DID NOT LIVE LONG ENOUGH TO REVISE HIS OPINION.
Jer: That is (sniff) unfair of you to criticise me for bringing up a dead man.
Me: It is unfair of us to listen to you whine about people criticising a war WE HAVE JUST WON.
Jer: Reread this post. Reclarify that post. Read Tolstoy! Debate me! Explain your non sequtiturs while I completely ignore mine.
Me: huh?
Jer: I said I don't understand the Boston Tea party.
Me: wha...?
Jer: Google my assertions on your positions!
Me: Oh my dear sweet mana from heaven, the engine appears to be running, the screws are turning, but his rudder done fell off.
Son, you couldn't sum up 2
January 3, 2009 - 07:52 ET by JerSon, you couldn't sum up 2 + 2 if you were told the answer was between 3 and 5.
I don't care if the entire NB membership rushes to your defense, trying to have a constructive exchange with you is a complete waste of time. Bye-bye.
Jer
Wait!
January 3, 2009 - 08:11 ET by JWFI am only half way through your homework assignments of rereading, reclarifying, redistilling the barley and hops and rekanoodling tolstoy!
Come back!
Sincerely,
a Veteran of a 1000 psychic wars.
Okay, JWF... I'll give
January 3, 2009 - 19:17 ET by JerOkay, JWF...
I'll give you another chance. Give me a shout out when you're ready. :-)
Jer
That was a joke.
January 4, 2009 - 08:01 ET by JWFWhat, are you one of those guys that has to get in the last word or something. I coulda swore this microthread in the larger thread was dead.
Sincerely,
a Veteran of a 1000 psychic wars.
That was a joke That's
January 4, 2009 - 17:31 ET by JerThat was a joke
That's the way I took it, JWF. That's why I made a light-hearted reply and put the smiley emoticon at the end of it.
And I could care less about having the "last word". I rarely do.
Jer
Oh crud. That smiley thing.
January 5, 2009 - 09:15 ET by JWFYea. I missed that. I am smiley deficient. It is kinda like color blindness except you never see those infernal smiley things.
Well, in my case, JWF
January 6, 2009 - 00:41 ET by JerWell, in my case, JWF, I think it's time I finally made the move for a pair of reading glasses. I find myself having to inch closer and closer to the screen nearly every time I sit down in front of my monitor.
Later, Jer
Salazar Gets "Promotion"
January 2, 2009 - 14:00 ET by CaringwhiteguyHere's the link to a great article by Steven Paulson of the AP. He states that the governor of Colorado has appointed a successor to Sen. Ken Salazar, who will become a cabinet secretary in the Obama Administration. The cool part of Paulson's piece is that he labels Salazar's move to Interior Secretary as a "promotion".
http://www.breitbart...
Needless to say there are 99 other egomaniacs that might disagree with that assessment.
→ The DOW
January 2, 2009 - 14:05 ET by Cool ArrowAnybody watching the DOW today?
3 days of gains?
Simple: The One was
January 2, 2009 - 23:09 ET by SvenSimple:
The One was showing his glistening pecks. The DOW would naturally go up.
Also, the Air is cleaner, the birds are chirping more brightly, world peace will take place January 20th...
→ Stupid question
January 2, 2009 - 15:05 ET by Cool ArrowI know this is a stupid question, but I'm trying to wrap my head around the logic.
With a Market Cap (worth) of $2.2 Billion, and a bailout of ~$8 billion, how many units does GM need to sell in order to pay back what they call a loan?
Assume $2000 profit per unit (I know it's not happening now, but assume it anyway).
obama has already said he
January 2, 2009 - 15:09 ET by pitter43obama has already said he wants to cut funding to the military and fund his own private army. Servicemen, and every American has good reason to be wary of him. Didn't Hitler do something very similar? Oh no, it was exactly the same. If I remember right, that didn't turn out so well.
Hilter
January 2, 2009 - 15:26 ET by ricklailIf I remember my hsitory right Hitler originally formed the SA-the brown shirts or the Nazis party. They were a paramilitary. Hitler loyalists. Then came the SS who was his personal army/police. Obama is probably talking about something like the SA. I don't believe our military commanders would stand for anything near the SS. I know I wouldn't.
YOU CAN KEEP "THE CHANGE" PALIN 2012
An American Gestapo ...
January 2, 2009 - 16:19 ET by SentryDanAn American Gestapo that would be similar to what Germany had. God help us. Everyone in Germany spied on their neighbor and is something appeared wrong the gestapo was notified.
Obama's propsed National Civilian Service Force would be similar to that. And remember also, Obama wants to limit ownership of guns.
Remember folks, Freedom isn't Free. It was bought with the blood and sacrifice of the men and women who are serving and who have served in the U.S. Armed Forces.
For those who fought for it, Freedom has a flavor that the protected will never know.
Civilian security force
January 3, 2009 - 06:17 ET by DontFeedTheTrollsIt looks like Obama wants to increase the use of 'volunteers' to help both domestically and with foreign affairs. This would be mandatory which is baffling to me. Of course, on the other hand, he could form this group and use it for ill, just as others (Hitler, Mao, Castro, etc.) have done.
D
Keep the ILLEGALS out, join NumbersUSA to send free faxes to your reps.
Before 2008 Gets Too Far Away...
January 2, 2009 - 15:44 ET by JDWI want to thank whoever writes the script for adding the HOME link at the bottom of each blog.
JDW
DAILY WAVE
Whatever else you think, your mother and my mother are both mothers
→ DOW 9000
January 2, 2009 - 16:13 ET by Cool ArrowIn case anybody cares, the DOW finished at 9034 today.
First time over 9k since November.
Could we see some significant recovery on Bush's watch?
Tax me Obambi!
Can't say I blame the people in the military for their concern.
January 2, 2009 - 17:58 ET by R D HelmUnlike many lefties, these people's memories actually do pre-date January of 2001, and they realize that Obama will turn our military back into a meals-on-wheels program, as did Bill Clinton.
Or possibly something worse.
-Dave
“Them that’s going get on the wagon. Them that ain’t get out of the way.”
I don't know if others have
January 2, 2009 - 18:01 ET by bigtimerI don't know if others have posted about this in the last day or so...I meant to put this on yesterday...anyway, what opinions do any of you have about this?
"America isn't the problem...America is the solution." ~ Rush Limbaugh
bt,
January 2, 2009 - 18:15 ET by R D HelmI'm still chewing on this one. Of course, if they had just followed my advice and instituted a no-capture policy.....
Realistically, I am not sure Obama will actually close GITMO. Too many thorny problems if he does.
Hell, even he should be able to see that.
-Dave
“Them that’s going get on the wagon. Them that ain’t get out of the way.”
Hey Dave...what bugs me
January 3, 2009 - 02:13 ET by bigtimerHey Dave...what bugs me about this is, isn't it rather convenient that this is being worked out now...and the msm is remaining basically mum until O gets coronated making it look like he solved Gitmo too?
I tell ya' the guy walks on water!
"America isn't the problem...America is the solution." ~ Rush Limbaugh
Oops, I almost forgot: ROLL TIDE in the Sugar Bowl tonight!!!
January 2, 2009 - 18:05 ET by R D Helm:-)
-Dave
“Them that’s going get on the wagon. Them that ain’t get out of the way.”
Oh Yeah!
January 2, 2009 - 18:39 ET by RukusI'm on pins and needles. Utah is a very good team with a Floridaish offense. I think the Tide needs to put forth their A-game, especially on defense, gonna be fun.Roll Tide!!
Gary
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote."
Travolta's son dies
January 2, 2009 - 18:20 ET by bigtimerMy heart goes out to the Travolta family with the loss of their 16 year old son Jet from a seizure today, I guess John tried to revive him to no avail...as a woman who has lost a son, I understand the pain.
Prayers sent.
"America isn't the problem...America is the solution." ~ Rush Limbaugh
→ The Five Little Pigs
January 2, 2009 - 19:44 ET by Cool ArrowBy all means, let's throw a Trillion Dollars out there.
The governors of New York, New Jersey, Massachusetts, Ohio and
Wisconsin -- all Democrats -- said the initiative for the two-year aid
package was backed by other governors [I wonder which governors that would be?]and follows a meeting in December
where governors
Some of these States should check Sharia law. Isn't there some abomination about impersonating a pig?
Civil War/Wal-Mart Ken
January 2, 2009 - 21:56 ET by bigtimerCivil War/Wal-Mart
Ken Burns says No.
What say you?
I say let the rights of the
January 2, 2009 - 22:06 ET by Mean Gene Dr. LoveI say let the rights of the property owner prevail!
"An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life." --Robert A. Heinlein, "Beyond This Horizon," 1942
Dr. Love... Once
January 2, 2009 - 22:16 ET by bigtimerDr. Love...
Once again...we agree.
"America isn't the problem...America is the solution." ~ Rush Limbaugh
The USS Obama
January 2, 2009 - 23:58 ET by Delsahttp://wanderingsalsero.typepad.com/.a/6a00d83451d41c69e200e553bc643c8833-800wi
Utah beats Bama?????
January 2, 2009 - 23:59 ET by R D HelmIn the immortal words of Buford T. Justice, What the hell is the world commin' to?
-Dave
“Them that’s going get on the wagon. Them that ain’t get out of the way.” -Because enough is enough.
utah....
January 3, 2009 - 00:02 ET by porpoiseboy13-0 baby....'cause the west really is the best.
"Here comes the orator! With his flood of words, and his drop of reason" Ben Franklin
Ecclesiastes 10:2 The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but the heart of the fool to the left
The more I see the problems
January 3, 2009 - 00:13 ET by ConservativeRexThe more I see the problems in the world and in this country, the more I believe, if left up to our congress, we are in a helluva pickle.
It may come down to every man for himself. Pelosi? Reid? and last and least Obami? Man-o-man that right there is a helluva an outfit.
If these jokers attempt to bail out the print media, or any media in this country, I for one am outta here. I can retire and live like a dadgummed king elsewhere.
This ought to be some four years ahead of us. And unless and until the Republicans grow a spine, it'll get pretty interesting around these parts.
Oh I dont know
January 3, 2009 - 00:29 ET by general companyWhat if?
Lowlands of Baghdad: Zydepunks
Now, when that I was married and in my marriage bed
There came a bold sea captain and he stood at my bedhead
Saying arise, arise young wedded man and come along with me
To the lowlands of Baghdad for to fight the enemy
Now Baghdad is a lovely land where every man's a king
It is a place of residence for soldiers to remain
There the oilfields are plentiful, the poppies sprout from every field
And if the streets are paved with gold then it must be the place for me
Said the mother to her daughter, leave off your sore lament
Is there ne'r a man in New Orleans that will be your heart's content
There are men enough in New Orleans but alas there are none for me
Since high winds and stormy seas have parted my love and me
I'll wear no shoes all on my feet, no combs all in my hair
I'll wear no handkerchief around my neck for to shade my beauty fair
And neither will I marry until the day I die
Since high winds and stormy seas have parted my love and I
http://www.rhapsody....
"Television is a freak show" Bernie Goldberg
Shawn
January 3, 2009 - 01:02 ET by Delsafar be it for me to jump into an ongoing conversation BUT
"gays who love their country" can join the military.
The point is, NO ONE needs to know HOW anyone prefers to have SEX! More importantly, no one wants to know either.
I don't tell you my sexual proclivities and you don't tell me yours.
Don't look now but SEX is NOT a CIVIL RIGHT! Period.
Gays who want to serve "their" country, and who insist upon telling everyone their sexual preferences, can always join the piece...oops I mean peace corps.
Hi Delsa
January 3, 2009 - 02:06 ET by shawn228I am not saying they necessarily have to tell someone they are gay. I mean if they were caught at a gay bar, or kissing another man when they are on leave.
I'm just saying that they would not always have to be careful to guard their secret or get kicked out of the armed forces.
He had my vote
Ahh Shawn
January 3, 2009 - 04:17 ET by well99Shawn just a note.Their has aways been gays in the military.If they kept it off base no one cared.I had a CO at Ft.Carson was that way.Nothing was said.This was back in the early 80's.If you flaunted it you got kicked out.A dime to a dollar that half the people kicked out for it were trying to get out of the military.