For general discussion and debate. Possible talking point: Vice President Kerry?
Kerry brings more money and name recognition to the table than any other name on the Obama list so far. Americans do tend to love a comeback kid and this would be the most amazing political comeback since Richard Nixon came back from the dead forty years ago...Polls show many voters question Obama's foreign policy credentials to be a wartime president. As a decorated veteran and longtime member of the senate foreign relations committee, Kerry could fill that gap.
Is this a good idea for Obama, or a sure winner for McCain?
Comments Policy
Is this the same guy that
August 16, 2008 - 10:48 ET by Clear thinkerIs this the same guy that served in Vietnam?
45 Communist Goals for America http://www.nationmakers.com/com_goals.htm
Is this the same guy that served in Vietnam?
August 16, 2008 - 11:13 ET by Gat New YorkYeh.
Remember, he was the guy who figured out how to quickly get three purple hearts which was an automatic get-out-of-Nam pass, so he could return and begin to make a political career for himself by slandering his fellow soldiers in front of Congress.
He would be an ideal pick for VP.
Remember, he was the guy
August 16, 2008 - 12:40 ET by DontFeedTheTrollsRemember, he was the guy who figured out how to quickly get three
purple hearts which was an automatic get-out-of-Nam pass, so he could
return and begin to make a political career for himself by slandering
his fellow soldiers in front of Congress.
Yeah, this guy.
D
Keep the ILLEGALS out, join NumbersUSA to send free faxes to your reps.
I can't resist...
August 16, 2008 - 12:12 ET by UnsaneJohn Kerry served in Vietnam?
Wow! I learn something new every day!
What kind of awards and decs did he get for his service there?
The Olympics are now under way in Beijing. May the people of Beijing get thoroughly sick of hearing The Star Spangled Banner. May the Beijing Olympic Committee run out of U.S. flags for the medal ceremonies! USA! USA!! USA!!!
I'm ticked off
August 16, 2008 - 10:53 ET by candanceI can't watch the video of Phelps winning the 100m. It's been banned from YouTube and pulled off the internet everywhere due to copyright rules. Is NBC doing this or the Olympic Committee?
can
August 16, 2008 - 11:01 ET by Noel Sheppardcan,
It's in the just-posted sports open thread. :-) ns
thanks Noel
August 16, 2008 - 11:03 ET by candanceI just found it on NBC's website, so apparently they're being the copyright bullies.
THE copyright bully of ALL copyright bullies
August 16, 2008 - 12:04 ET by UnsaneThat's nothing. Don't EVER mess with the USOC. I remember a high school up the street from me in Aurora, CO once had the mascot name "Olympians" until the USOC came knocking (only one example). And this is ensured by federal law. Notice on some advertisements with any sort of the Olympic theme/logo you will see a reference to said law on the screen if your eyes look at the right place at the right time.
Another thing: if you are a "worldwide Olympic sponsor", the IOC, et. al, will jealously guard your position on your behalf. I found this out the hard way when I bought some Vancouver 2010 Olympic goodies at YVR. For the first time in my life I did not have a Visa card on me; I could ONLY pay for the stuff there with cash or a Visa. So I was taken to a distant cash register where I could swipe my MasterCard for them.
The Olympics are now under way in Beijing. May the people of Beijing gt thoroughly sick of hearing The Star Spangled Banner. May the Beijing Olympic Committee run out of U.S. flags for themedal ceremonies! USA! USA!! USA!!!
Yes! Absolutely!!
August 16, 2008 - 11:16 ET by Dr_LibertyI think Kerry would be a great pick! He would make The O appear more in touch with the common man.
<insert witty signature here>
FOLLOW THE MONEY
August 16, 2008 - 11:00 ET by billbThis tired old phrase is always used in the context of criminal behavior. Andrew Cuomo, the new darling of CNBC is picking up where Spitzer left off. As he goes after financial institutions for alleged crimes, huge fines are imposed. What happens to this money? Does it go to the public who were the victims or does it go into the state treasury to be divided by the party in power?
Two for One sale on Empty Suits!!
August 16, 2008 - 11:08 ET by Dagny TaggartGod help us all! A twofer of arrogant asses, with no vision or plan.
I would like to think this would help McCain, but the reality is that the US media drank the Kool-Aid long ago, and will trumpet this as a brilliant combo. The cattle (otherwise known as the American electorate) will eat this right up, as in "Oh, we're soooo very civilized voting for these elitists. Our European friends will find us so cosmopolitan, progressive, and...........nuanced."
Yeah, I'd like to see how that pair would handle Vlad the Impaler, assorted middle east terrorist types, or even deal with the Euro-weenies without caving.
In the immortal words of
August 16, 2008 - 11:13 ET by fitzfongIn the immortal words of the wind-surfing gigilo himself...
Bring. It. On.
"Government's view of the economy could be summed up in a few short phrases: If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops moving, subsidize it." -Ronald Reagan
fitzfong.blogspot.com
I think he will choose
August 16, 2008 - 11:35 ET by RMRI think he will choose Hilary. I believe the low poll numbers is causing so much panic in Barry's camp that they are beginning to think that they will need the Clinton machine to win this thing. Plus, she have already rolled him on everthing else, why not the VP slot?
It's beginning to look like
August 16, 2008 - 11:46 ET by SimpaticoIt's beginning to look like Obama will be lucky if Hillary chooses him.
Yeah. You might be right
August 16, 2008 - 12:23 ET by RMRYeah. You might be right about that one.
Looks like she slipped him an envelope chuck full of photographs, audio and video tapes.
Local Democratic leaders in
August 16, 2008 - 22:28 ET by NL207Local Democratic leaders in my area are deeply divided over Obama. The kool-aid drinking liberals all support him without question. The pragmatists who want to win the White House are ready to throw Barack under the bus, switch their votes, and nominate Hillary.
It aint over yet. Obama hasn't got the nomination yet.
Obama doesn't have a prayer in November.
Keep The Change
August 16, 2008 - 11:42 ET by KevpotHow delightful. The One and Lurch. And Dems wonder why they lose elections. Expect much weeping and gnashing of teeth when they get pwned in November, regardless of who Obamessiah chooses: 'the GOP steals another election', 'disenfranchised voters', 'rigged Diebold machines', 'Americans are racists'...yeah the whole 'swiftboat' thang.
Also expect riots in urban enclaves and about that I'm not even joking....change is coming.
Team win in the flip flop olympic's
August 16, 2008 - 13:21 ET by ScrapironThe would hold the world record for team 'flip flops' before they arrive in Denver. They have already broke the world record for lies by politicians so they will be a 'twofer' for truthfers. I hate to see the democrat party digging through the bottom of the sewer box looking for candidates, guess they have already rejected all of the 'floaters'.
Old, Retired and glad of it.
Try not to laugh
August 16, 2008 - 11:46 ET by BlondeIf you want to read something funny...here's a little bit about how vapid Rielle Hunter is....I mean she looks pretty stupid, but try not to laugh at how really stupid she must be (not to mention John Edwards for having an affair with her).
Bimbo alert!
David Gregory, do you know which damn network you lie for? ~ Uncle Jimbo, @Blackfive
And thinking he could get away with it
August 16, 2008 - 12:23 ET by sarcasmoHimbo alert! :)
But I think it's time to start speculating about just who sold this one to The Enquirer. My pick would be maybe the wife of the guy who at first took credit for (does anyone doubt it at this point?) Edwards' kid.
JMR
The tax & spend drug war looks racist in the real world.
Blonde
August 16, 2008 - 12:34 ET by ricklailI know you are not supposed to kick a man when he is down but I can't help it. The Silky Pony deserves everything he gets and more. I am so happy that all this came out. I have depised this man ever since he ran against Latch Faircloth and won using deceit.
What makes me even happier is to see the Raleigh N&O has continued to investigate this and report it. I can't believe that they would go after him like this after all the water they have carried for him over the years.
Be kind to your kids. They'll be choosing your nursing home.
no worries, rick
August 16, 2008 - 13:03 ET by BlondeJohn Edwards deserves every bit of the attention he's now getting.
Qu'elle hypocrite.
David Gregory, do you know which damn network you lie for? ~ Uncle Jimbo, @Blackfive
Blonde more on Rielle
August 16, 2008 - 13:47 ET by botgenergy maven
"You can not support the Troops if you do not support their Mission"
Judgement day.
August 16, 2008 - 11:52 ET by RackieThe VP's job is to be an understudy and a Senate tiebreaker.
BHO will always want to be the smartest person in the room.
He will pick a go-fer who knows his place.
Bumper Sticker
August 16, 2008 - 12:23 ET by CaringwhiteguyThe Messiah & the "MASSiah" - Hope and Change for Common Folks.
Just keeps getting worse and worse and worse.
August 16, 2008 - 12:25 ET by ThalpyJust keeps getting worse and worse and worse. Where is Big Al in all of this?
X
August 16, 2008 - 12:26 ET by serfer62The clintons are shaping the convention consuming the first 2 days as speakers. Also they got a revote of somekind, so maybe OHbama will not be selecting anyone.
But Macnasty the fool will hand them the election when he annouces Liberman as his VP.
The is an election from hell...
Kerry would be the perfect VP for BHO...
August 16, 2008 - 12:32 ET by Prester John...afterall, he speaks French, which is also known as the language of losers.
Merci beaucoup.
(gag)
If Kerry is VP will he
August 16, 2008 - 12:39 ET by charlietexasIf Kerry is VP will he finally release his military records??
Don't hold your breath.............
mom
Since the MSM lets “The
August 16, 2008 - 12:39 ET by Eileen RightSince the MSM lets “The One” do
whatever he likes, I think he'll institute multiple VP's or
Commissars. Some choices:
VP for European Affairs - Kerry
VP for NASA - Kucinich
VP for Ethics – William Jefferson
VP for State Secrets – Leahy
VP for Women's Rights – Uncle Ted
VP for Hair Club – Joe Biden
VP for Energy – Pelosi
VP for Lesbian Rights – Hillary
VP for Homosexual Rights – Frank &
Craig (reaching under the stall instead of across the aisle)
VP for Capitalism – Bernie Sanders
VP for Logical Thinking – Boxer
VP for Racial Reconciliation - Byrd
The Poodle
August 16, 2008 - 12:40 ET by ricklailHenceforth we need to refer to Kerry as "The Poodle' as so named by Neal Boortz. He is French, well groomed and the toy of a rich woman.
Be kind to your kids. They'll be choosing your nursing home.
John Kerry as possible VP choice
August 16, 2008 - 12:48 ET by Travis NoodleLurch (Rush Limbaugh's name for John Kerry) as VP???
This makes me sick...
The Cult of Personality
August 16, 2008 - 12:46 ET by UnsaneWhile minding my own business the other day, paying for some groceries, I noticed that Obama and family were pictured again prominiently on yet another mag - this time Ladies Home Journal. Seriously...Ladies Home Journal?
The man is not President yet there isn't a place I can go where I can get away from him. I swear we are facing something worse than Turkmenbashy if he gets into office. (Niyazov had to force his media and people to be pliant. Here, the media and millions of others are willingly so.) If not, can someone explain to me why images of Obama MUST be on such publications as Us, People, Rolling Stone, among countless others I have missed?
The Olympics are now under way in Beijing. May the people of Beijing gt thoroughly sick of hearing The Star Spangled Banner. May the Beijing Olympic Committee run out of U.S. flags for themedal ceremonies! USA! USA!! USA!!!
Obama on Vacation...
August 16, 2008 - 12:57 ET by Travis NoodleDuring the recent Georgian/Russian war crisis, good ole' Barry was off trying to hang ten in Hawaii. Really.
Barry is running for president, an international crisis breaks out and where is he...ahh...let's see...he's on vacation. This guy is such a lightweight. The MSM doens't criticize him for this, in fact he gets a pass. This is not statesmanship...this is pure rookie behavior.
McCain stepped up to the plate and handled it appropriately...he chose not to take a vacation in the middle of a crisis. And of course the MSM give Barry a pass...
Stop Picking On Obama!!!
August 16, 2008 - 13:05 ET by UnsaneAh, but remember, The Ruler of All Forbidden Evil (that would be Bush) is a f#$%ing g*dd#$& a--hole for not immediately going to New Orleans for Hurricane Katrina and not personally feeding, clothing, and sheltering every single one of the victims. (In addition, what of Fmr. Gov. Blanco's and Mayor Nagin's responsibilities, the media of course peeped not a bit.)
The Olympics are now under way in Beijing. May the people of Beijing get thoroughly sick of hearing The Star Spangled Banner. May the Beijing Olympic Committee run out of U.S. flags for the medal ceremonies! USA! USA!! USA!!!
Yeah.....Leave Barack
August 16, 2008 - 14:29 ET by motherbeltYeah.....Leave Barack Alone!!
Yo Obama...please pick
August 16, 2008 - 13:19 ET by bigtimerYo Obama...please pick Kerry...pretty please.
"America isn't the problem...America is the solution." ~ Rush Limbaugh
I am begging for these two
August 16, 2008 - 14:20 ET by celatorI am begging for these two clowns to be on the same ticket. Please, please let it happen!
There will be so many hilarious one-liners on NB based on their gaffs it will fill a book. Oh, please, let it happen!
The major media report only half the news. Why are they surprised they have only half the potential audience?
One can only hope Obama
August 16, 2008 - 14:50 ET by LilyPearlOne can only hope Obama picks him. The swiftboating will be even easier.
Obama / Kerry
August 16, 2008 - 16:10 ET by BarrackPutin is licking his chops at the possibility. That ticket would make Jimmy Carter look like Tony Atlas.
www.benbarrack.com
Barrack... ...and Putin
August 16, 2008 - 16:17 ET by bigtimerBarrack...
...and Putin wouldn't be the lone stranger in the world lickin' his chops either....
"America isn't the problem...America is the solution." ~ Rush Limbaugh
Putin
August 16, 2008 - 16:22 ET by BarrackAgreed 100%...
Only given the situation in Georgia with Russia thinking the US has been rubbing their noses in the loss of the cold war for almost 20 years, he smells the garlic in the kitchen.
Russians could be looking for payback and weak leadership in the US will only heighten that possibility. At the very least, Europe is toast if Obama elected.
www.benbarrack.com
Russia
August 16, 2008 - 18:56 ET by UnsaneThe United States has less rubbed Россйя's nose with the loss of the Cold War and has more ignored them for the past 15 or so years; at least in the eyes of Russians. That frosts them more than anything. Back in the bad old days of the Cold War, the Soviet Union gots TONS of pub all over the world, and had a massive profile. They are a shadow of their former selves and they know it.
Россйя wants a little attention and a lot of respect. Of course, I think they lost that respect long before marching on Georgia: the interference in Ukraine's elections, the turning off of oil pipelines to Ukraine and Georgia in the past in order to extort more cash out of them, and the assassination of Литвинов with Polonium-210 being some of the examples I can think of.
If I were king for a day:
1) Run Russia out of the G-8;
2) Yank the 2014 Winter Olympics from Сочи altogether and give them to the second-place finisher in that competition (it's been done before; Denver got the 1976 Winter Games in 1970 until they were essentially rejected by CO voters in 1972 and moved to Innsbrück).
3) Otherwise make them as much of a pariah as possible,
4) Arm up, train, and equip Georgia a la Afghanistan in the 1980s.
The Olympics are now under way in Beijing. May the people of Beijing gt thoroughly sick of hearing The Star Spangled Banner. May the Beijing Olympic Committee run out of U.S. flags for themedal ceremonies! USA! USA!! USA!!!
Uns,
August 16, 2008 - 18:59 ET by BlondeWhat about the Ukraine & Poland (threatened with a nuke if they accept our missile defense)?
Hello Cold War.
David Gregory, do you know which damn network you lie for? ~ Uncle Jimbo, @Blackfive
Yet more on Russia just for Blonde
August 16, 2008 - 19:53 ET by UnsaneI think that the Cold War just might be on its way back. Not because of ideology, and not because of the United States (though the Left and the MSM desperately want us all to believe the latter). It will be because, among other things, the powers that be in Russia have no interest in telling the army where to go, to shut up and color. To elaborate briefly: Russia's main threats are on its frontiers yet within Russia (relatively low-grade worries like Chechnya and the like). But Russia's armed forces desperately want to play Cold War again, and plan intensely against NATO and the United States like it is 1985 (if for no other reason than it allows the generals access to massive amounts of resources and prestige).
Poland and Ukraine having missiles and/or being members of NATO (and in Ukraine's case, possibly being in the EU and NATO someday) deeply irks Russia for historical reasons as doubtless you know. Yeah, I know, I wish Russia would grow the hell up and accept reality, but people and the nations they populate aren't exactly rational all of the time.
All of this is puzzling to me, if only because I am sitting in my perch, just an American from TX, knowing what I know of Russia, thinking to myself, "I would have held off on invading Georgia until 2033 or so". If I weren't in the midst of my home project I would elaborate much further on Russia. Perhaps I will at some point.
The Olympics are now under way in Beijing. May the people of Beijing get thoroughly sick of hearing The Star Spangled Banner. May the Beijing Olympic Committee run out of U.S. flags for the medal ceremonies! USA! USA!! USA!!!
I for one do not believe
August 16, 2008 - 20:07 ET by BlazerI for one do not believe the "Cold War" was ever actually over Unsane. I will go out on a limb and say in certain instances I believe we have done our part in alienating and poking the Bear with a stick in his cage the last several yrs when we should have been extending olive branches.
Russia on the same token has repeatedly gone against our interests and sides with our enemies most of the time and puts our national security at risk and our soldiers in harms way thanks to their business dealings and posturing.
I'm 100 % with the home team, but at the same time I dont' think we would tolerate Mexico or Canada going Warsaw pact and Russia placing missiles there, just my 2 cents.
However a major conflageration with them is inevitable in my opinion, better sooner than later. If the Georgians woulda had a few of these babies when the Russkies were driving all of that heavy armor across the Georgia countryside, there would have been a "high pucker factor" on their behalf. Game Over.
" http://shock.militar...
"You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy. We must be cautious. "
- Ben Kenobi on Liberals, and the MSM.
" The Cake is a lie."
A response to naivete
August 16, 2008 - 20:28 ET by UnsaneI will go out on a limb and say in certain instances I believe we have done our part in alienating and poking the Bear with a stick in his cage the last several yrs when we should have been extending olive branches. Have you ever written for Foreign Affairs? That sounds like something one of those guys and gals would have written.
How exactly has Russia been poked with a stick in its cage? Oh, what, the withdrawal from the ABM Treaty? So what? We have bent over backwards to ACCOMODATE the Russians, what with offering them access to missile tracking (to monitor threats of their own), offering them a seat as an observer at the NATO table.
In my estimation, we have done NOTHING but offer olive branches and assurances, and have even attempted to be inclusive with them, but the Russians have elected to behave, to use an oft-used word in The Economist, prickly. That isn't the fault of the United States.
I'm 100 % with the home team, but at the same time I dont' think we would tolerate Mexico or Canada going Warsaw pact and Russia placing missiles there, just my 2 cents. No offense, but I don't think you are 100% with the home team. You seem to be blaming the United States here. Sounds to me you would have, or actually have, sided with the Soviets in 1962 when they placed their missiles in Cuba.
Whenever Russia/the Soviet Union has deployed missiles, in Cuba, or in your hypothetical example, it is to be intimidating and bullying. Whenever the United States does so, it is out of defensive needs and desires, AND the United States does not force other countries to go along. As much as the United States would love to deploy missiles in Poland, for instance, that's up to President Tusk and the Polish Parliament. But in your bid to utilize moral relevance, you miss that obvious and glaring point.
Sorry, but the United States has NATO as a defensive alliance, as a deterrent force. This has been demostrated time and time again by its nearly 60 years in existence. Indeed, one can argue, I suppose, that membership in NATO hamstrings various countries penchant for military adventures and has helped to stabilize Europe. On that score alone you would think that Russia would be content to see nations like Poland join an organization that gives them much less to worry about on their Western frontier, and thus freeing up its military to concentrate on threats elsewhere that are just as grave if not more so to Russia. As noted, I am very well aware of the historical grievances Russia and nations like Ukraine and Poland have with each other. But give me a break. The expansion of NATO and the delpoyment of missiles that are to be used in a defensive nature, and sure as all hell could not stop a full-blown release of Russia's missiles by a long shot, does not justify Russia's behavior.
The Olympics are now under way in Beijing. May the people of Beijing gt thoroughly sick of hearing The Star Spangled Banner. May the Beijing Olympic Committee run out of U.S. flags for themedal ceremonies! USA! USA!! USA!!!
I'm with unsane
August 16, 2008 - 20:38 ET by candanceWe're offering missile defense to eastern Europe not because we want to attack Russia, but because we know Russia will eventually go after them again and they need protection.
Also agree that Russia has been given plenty of chances to join us in the 21st century. They're a major player in the UN right now and just use their position to get away with more bullying.
I agree can, but Russia
August 16, 2008 - 20:46 ET by BlazerI agree can, but Russia wants to be the power player in that corner of the world and we consistantly step on their toes and try to take them out of the equation, not only on security and military issues but economic ones as well. A lot of this is percieved as pompousness and arrogance bvy the United States.
"You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy. We must be cautious. "
- Ben Kenobi on Liberals, and the MSM.
" The Cake is a lie."
What do you want us to do???
August 16, 2008 - 20:52 ET by Unsane...but Russia wants to be the power player in that corner of the world and we consistantly step on their toes and try to take them out of the equation, not only on security and military issues but economic ones as well. A lot of this is percieved as pompousness and arrogance bvy the United States. This is foreign policy, not high school.
Russia has been given opportunities time and time again to engage with the world and had constantly been offered a seat at the table by the United States. Hell, Bush has looked away in many respects from some of the more unsavory aspects of the Путин regime.
What the hell else do you want the United States to do??? Give back AK for FREE to them? Just to NOT be thought of as a BIG MEANY? Just to be LIKED?
The Olympics are now under way in Beijing. May the people of Beijing get thoroughly sick of hearing The Star Spangled Banner. May the Beijing Olympic Committee run out of U.S. flags for the medal ceremonies! USA! USA!! USA!!!
"What the hell else do you
August 16, 2008 - 21:03 ET by Blazer"What the hell else do you want the United States to do??? Give back AK
for FREE to them? Just to NOT be thought of as a BIG MEANY? Just to
be LIKED?"
There was the question I wanted you to ask Unsane. No. If we're gonna treat Russia as the adversary which in my opinion they are then they should be dealt with heavy handed.
Putin is ex-KGB and no doubt led a lavish lifestyle under the Communist regime during the Cold War. He doesn't know the difference between socialism and capitalism because his status quo has never changed.He is a dictator and Medvedev is nothing but his puppet.
What I'm saying is we should have fried those tanks as soon as they tried to leave S. Ossetia, no doubt the Georgians have felt emboldened by our backing them up thus far, we would have had no choice had Georgia been accepted into Nato, we should have done it any way.
We let them down.
"You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy. We must be cautious. "
- Ben Kenobi on Liberals, and the MSM.
" The Cake is a lie."
huh??
August 16, 2008 - 21:08 ET by candanceYou really think we'd have attacked Russia if Georgia was a member of NATO?
"You really think we'd have
August 16, 2008 - 21:19 ET by Blazer"You really think we'd have attacked Russia if Georgia was a member of NATO?"
Well can, from what i remember from the "Cold War", thats exactly what Nato was designed for. An attack against one, is an attack against all, of course I have my doubts now.
"You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy. We must be cautious. "
- Ben Kenobi on Liberals, and the MSM.
" The Cake is a lie."
Problems
August 16, 2008 - 21:29 ET by UnsaneOkay, you hit a few of Russia's tanks and involved the United States and Russia in combat for the first time since the United States intervened on behalf of the "Whites" in 1918 in the Soviet Civil War. Then what?
When the Soviets hit Afghanistan in 1979, we armed them and fought an war by proxy. We didn't march down the North German Plain towards East Berlin and Warsaw over that.
Then there is the issue of logistics and how we can support and sustain operations, which I am trying to work out in my mind.
As much as I am ALL ABOUT punching the bad guys in the face, there are ways to go about it.
Hence my list of moves noted above you seem to have ignored, or at least not commented on.
The Olympics are now under way in Beijing. May the people of Beijing get thoroughly sick of hearing The Star Spangled Banner. May the Beijing Olympic Committee run out of U.S. flags for the medal ceremonies! USA! USA!! USA!!!
Blazer...
August 16, 2008 - 20:59 ET by Clear thinkerThe commies have never given up on trying to piss off and then dominate the USA. Please read the 45 Communist Goals for America (link below). And they get to thank our liberals for helping them acheive their goals. This is just one of many reasons why liberals should never be in positions of power. They actually work for the enemy either with complete knowledge or out of sheer stupidity.
The cold war only took a short break.
45 Communist Goals for America http://www.nationmakers.com/com_goals.htm
Making fun of AGW Alarmist's is easy http://g
exactly clear
August 16, 2008 - 21:06 ET by candanceWe haven't bullied them. We've simply been their biggest competition and the biggest impediment to them spreading communism.
Blazer no offense, but you seem to think the Russians wouldn't bother us if we didn't bother them. That's just not the way it is.
Thats not at all what I'm
August 16, 2008 - 21:11 ET by BlazerThats not at all what I'm saying can on the contrary. I'm saying call a spade a spade and instead of giving the bully your lunch money when he calls your bluff, punch him in the damn nose and teach im' a lesson.
"You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy. We must be cautious. "
- Ben Kenobi on Liberals, and the MSM.
" The Cake is a lie."
BullSh&t Unsane. Remember
August 16, 2008 - 20:49 ET by BlazerBullSh&t Unsane. Remember Kosovo? Same thing. If Wes Clark woulda had his way we would have fired on the Russians at the airport and this thing would have been one and done ten yrs. ago. The Yugoslavians are ethnically slavic and are considered brothers by the Russians.
C'mon Unsane I would have sided with the Russians putting missiles in Cuba? LOL ! KMA !
Theres a whole lot of hypocrisy on both sides of this issue. At any rate I'm with the home team no matter what I feel personally. Anyone against the Russians or the oppressors of freedom is my dog in the fight. Unfortunately it looks as if the United States is gonna let their dog become Bear food. That ought to really get all those ex-soviet states behind us now, if they weren't before. You listening Taiwan ?
"You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy. We must be cautious. "
- Ben Kenobi on Liberals, and the MSM.
" The Cake is a lie."
why blaze?
August 16, 2008 - 20:51 ET by candance"That ought to really get all those ex-soviet states behind us now"
Why? So they can suffer the same fate as Georgia, where we call them our ally but then pressure them to make consessions when Russia invades?
Face it blaze, those states will all be looking out for number one and NOT depending on us for protection - just as east Germany gave up on us in 1961.
can, I probably should have
August 16, 2008 - 20:55 ET by Blazercan, I probably should have put "sarc-" behind that comment, because I was being sarcastic. All of those ex-Soviet republics will be officially reigned in now, with the Ukraine and Poland on the shortlist, thanks to our no balls leadership.
"You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy. We must be cautious. "
- Ben Kenobi on Liberals, and the MSM.
" The Cake is a lie."
Don't be such an idealist then
August 16, 2008 - 21:01 ET by UnsaneC'mon Unsane I would have sided with the Russians putting missiles in Cuba? LOL ! KMA ! It really isn't my fault you are looking at foreign policy as a pie-in-the-sky idealist and applying moral relativism all over the place. Note this next line: Theres a whole lot of hypocrisy on both sides of this issue. Welcome to foreign policy. The only thing that matters is the following: What Is In The Best Interests of The United States. The End. Whether it looks like hypocrisy or not scarcely matters.
You listening Taiwan ? Taiwan is different in that we actually have a defense treaty signed with them. Do we have such treaties with Georgia? No, though we have been training their military and integrating them increasingly with the West. The only former Soviet republics we have treaties with are the Baltic states by way of NATO.
The Olympics are now under way in Beijing. May the people of Beijing gt thoroughly sick of hearing The Star Spangled Banner. May the Beijing Olympic Committee run out of U.S. flags for themedal ceremonies! USA! USA!! USA!!!
"The only thing that
August 16, 2008 - 21:24 ET by Blazer"The only thing that matters is the following: What Is In The Best Interests of The United States."
Yep, and the U.S. decided to sit out and whine rather than back up an ally.
"Taiwan is different in that we actually have a defense treaty signed with them."
That treaty aint' worth the paper it's printed on now, I'm sure the Chinese have token notice too. No doubt they will be emboldened also, by what the Russians have done.remeber taiwan is a "breakaway republic" also.
Actions speak louder than words but our in-action concerning Georgia is deafening.
"You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy. We must be cautious. "
- Ben Kenobi on Liberals, and the MSM.
" The Cake is a lie."
Look at some history, and some treaties
August 16, 2008 - 21:39 ET by UnsaneThat treaty aint' worth the paper it's printed on now Really? I didn't realize we were or are obligated by treaty to defend Georgia. When did this happen?
Yep, and the U.S. decided to sit out and whine rather than back up an ally. East Berlin 1953. Hungary 1956. Czechoslovakia 1968. Poland 1970/1980/1981.
Do you always bet ALL of your chips at the poker table or do you evaluate the situation and go from there?
The Olympics are now under way in Beijing. May the people of Beijing get thoroughly sick of hearing The Star Spangled Banner. May the Beijing Olympic Committee run out of U.S. flags for the medal ceremonies! USA! USA!! USA!!!
"Do you always bet ALL of
August 16, 2008 - 21:45 ET by Blazer"Do you always bet ALL of your chips at the poker table or do you evaluate the situation and go from there?"
We didn't have a treaty to defend Kuwait either, did we ? But then again, their were large amounts of win in that sector.
If I were a bettin' man however and happened to be the leader of the Ukraine or say Taiwan, I may just start whistling past the graveyard when the Russkies or Chi-coms decide to flex their muscles from now on.
"You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy. We must be cautious. "
- Ben Kenobi on Liberals, and the MSM.
" The Cake is a lie."
Well?
August 16, 2008 - 21:53 ET by UnsaneWhat say you about my proposed list of responses?
And what say you about the scenario I outlined above? (I notice you didn't answer my question at the end of it...)
Well?
Also I can't help but note your contradiction: you opened this discussion up by whining about how we are SO MEAN to the Russians, yet you seen to have zero compunction about blasting them in the face.
The Olympics are now under way in Beijing. May the people of Beijing get thoroughly sick of hearing The Star Spangled Banner. May the Beijing Olympic Committee run out of U.S. flags for the medal ceremonies! USA! USA!! USA!!!
"What say you about my
August 16, 2008 - 22:09 ET by Blazer"What say you about my proposed list of responses?"
Differnet times, different resolve simple as that.
"Also I can't help but note your contradiction: you opened this discussion up by whining about how we are SO MEAN to the Russians"
The thread was well opened before I interjected, plus i wasn't whining. I'm simply saying its hard to justify an argument when you yourself were on ther opposite side of the issue, like I said remember Kosovo ?
The Russians are saying if you move enough people into an area then the populace has a right to autonomy and can secede from the country that the territory belongs to.
The U.S. says that if you move enough people into a territory vis-avis Kosovo, then the populace has a right to autonomy and can secede from the country the territory belongs to.
If anything what I'm advocating is a lot more hawkish. If your gonna be a hypocrite at least back it up with force.
"You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy. We must be cautious. "
- Ben Kenobi on Liberals, and the MSM.
" The Cake is a lie."
What????
August 16, 2008 - 22:13 ET by UnsaneI can't understand how you can be more of a hawk when you cry about how we are SO MEAN to the Russians, and cannot accept the fact that hypocrisy is legion in the realm of foreign policy.
The Olympics are now under way in Beijing. May the people of Beijing gt thoroughly sick of hearing The Star Spangled Banner. May the Beijing Olympic Committee run out of U.S. flags for themedal ceremonies! USA! USA!! USA!!!
Ummmm, no your mistaken
August 16, 2008 - 22:25 ET by BlazerUmmmm, no your mistaken Unsane, I wasn't "crying", I like to be mean to the Russians. Your staring hypocrisy dead in the face and you know it.
Your trying to pull the "patriotism" card, much like a lib would try and pull the "racist" or "Hitler" card because the irony of it all leaves no other recourse.
"You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy. We must be cautious. "
- Ben Kenobi on Liberals, and the MSM.
" The Cake is a lie."
*frowns in confusion*
August 16, 2008 - 22:27 ET by candanceNot trying to be mean Blaze cause you know I'm a fan of yours, but you're not making much sense here. You started out saying America has contributed to the problem and should have been extending an olive branch. Now you're saying you like being mean to the Russians?
Maybe I'm missing something, but I'm just not seeing your logic.
What I'm saying is we need
August 16, 2008 - 22:38 ET by BlazerWhat I'm saying is we need to be one or the other can, and quit disguising our intentions. Kosovo imho was Milosovic's heavy handed attempt at a war on terror and reigning in seccionists.
To sum it up as best as I can as far as our policy is concerning the Russians:
How would you feel if a friend invited you out for dinner with your recently nastily divorced from you ex-spouse and they were now a couple?
Yea, I would kick his ass all over Ruby Teusdays.
I think thats how the Russkies have been taking it.
Though I hate the Russians with a passion, I'm sure they still have some pride.
At any rate though not a fan of his he was spot on in this assesment:
http://buchanan.org/...
"You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy. We must be cautious. "
- Ben Kenobi on Liberals, and the MSM.
" The Cake is a lie."
Unsane, I really don't think the Cold War actually ended.
August 16, 2008 - 20:45 ET by R D HelmThe collapse of the USSR caused a lull, but the underlying differences never really went away. It is eerily similar to the lull that existed between WW I and WW II. That was essentially a twenty year armistice.
We are approaching that twenty year period in the Cold War armistice.
The difference now is that Russia has a steady source of income from oil, something it didn't have before, as massive cash infusions from the West were the only thing that kept it going as long as it did.
Similarly, Germany, between the wars, went through a similar situation.
Welcome to Cold War II.
-Dave.
Another reason for America to drill NOW
August 16, 2008 - 21:13 ET by UnsaneYet ANOTHER reason for the United States to intesively exploit its own oil resources and do everything - yes, everything possible - to be energy independent with a garden variety of resources. If we as Americans demand - absolutely demand - Congress start to permit drilling and exploration of oil, no questions asked, this will help bring down the price of crude, and will prove very painful to Russia.
The drilling issue is more of a foreign policy issue than most Americans can even begin to imagine.
Remember, Russia has always been an exploitative economy. Once upon a time, around the time of late imperial Russia, its cash cow was wheat, until some upstart called the United States started to flood Europe with wheat. Some would argue that this triggered great hardships that put Russia on the road to the Russian Revolution.
Oil is Russia's new wheat. What can we do to make them lose out again?
The Olympics are now under way in Beijing. May the people of Beijing get thoroughly sick of hearing The Star Spangled Banner. May the Beijing Olympic Committee run out of U.S. flags for the medal ceremonies! USA! USA!! USA!!!
Unsane...
August 16, 2008 - 21:18 ET by Clear thinker"What can we do to make them lose out again?"
Send them all of our liberals!
45 Communist Goals for America http://www.nationmakers.com/com_goals.htm
Making fun of AGW http://giovanniworld.w
LOL
August 16, 2008 - 21:42 ET by UnsaneHaha! I wonder how many of them will go to Lenin's mausoleum as their first stop?
The Olympics are now under way in Beijing. May the people of Beijing get thoroughly sick of hearing The Star Spangled Banner. May the Beijing Olympic Committee run out of U.S. flags for the medal ceremonies! USA! USA!! USA!!!
Hey Uns,
August 16, 2008 - 22:38 ET by BlondeYou're our resident AF guy....what is the state of the Russian Air Forces these days?
Second question, where is the F-22 stationed and is it fully operational yet (having driven through Knob Noster & Whiteman last week, oh how I wish I could have seen THOSE planes)?
David Gregory, do you know which damn network you lie for? ~ Uncle Jimbo, @Blackfive
Blonde - Sorry for the late response...
August 17, 2008 - 19:45 ET by UnsaneThe F-22 can be found at Tyndall (FL), Langley (VA), and my old stomping grounds of Elmendorf (AK). It is designed to replace the F-15, so if you know of an F-15 squadron, you know where the F-22 is going.
I remember watching the infrastructure go up for this plane at Elmendorf and even read some site surveys conducted for the eventual siting of the plane there. (Sometimes being a logistician has its perks. Sometimes.)
The Russian air force is interesting. I imagine that, it being flush with cash as a petro-state, it can afford to allow its pilots more flying and training time. They, at the same time, never throw anything away. They still have plenty of Bears, Colts, Fishbeds and so on as well as Fulcrums, Flankers and Blackjacks. Nonetheless, its state of repair/decay is unknown to me.
What interests me most (imagine that) are the logistics capabilities they have. What is allowing them to sustain operations there? I'd imagine that would be rail, which is what the Soviet Union was highly reliant on and would have used extensively in the event of a march down the Fulda Gap back in the day. Roads are out. Years ago, I read somewhere that TX has more paved roads than the Soviet Union, and knowing what I know of Russian infrastructure, it would not surprise me if that held today. Conversely, one of the things I am working on in my mind is how U.S operations, if there were any, could be sustained there. Sealift, I suspect is out; less because of Turkish politics and more due to limitations provided by the Bosporus. (So no carriers or subs unless the Navy has tricks I don't know about.)
The Olympics are now under way in Beijing. May the people of Beijing get thoroughly sick of hearing The Star Spangled Banner. May the Beijing Olympic Committee run out of U.S. flags for the medal ceremonies! USA! USA!! USA!!!
Thanks, Uns.
August 17, 2008 - 19:54 ET by Blonde