Open Thread

By NB Staff (Bio | Archive)
Sat, 08/16/2008 - 10:44 ET

For general discussion and debate. Possible talking point: Vice President Kerry?

Kerry brings more money and name recognition to the table than any other name on the Obama list so far. Americans do tend to love a comeback kid and this would be the most amazing political comeback since Richard Nixon came back from the dead forty years ago...Polls show many voters question Obama's foreign policy credentials to be a wartime president. As a decorated veteran and longtime member of the senate foreign relations committee, Kerry could fill that gap.

Is this a good idea for Obama, or a sure winner for McCain?

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Is this the same guy that

Sat, 08/16/2008 - 10:48 ET by Clear thinker

Is this the same guy that served in Vietnam?

45 Communist Goals for America http://www.nationmakers.com/com_goals.htm

Is this the same guy that served in Vietnam?

Sat, 08/16/2008 - 11:13 ET by Gat New York

Yeh.

Remember, he was the guy who figured out how to quickly get three purple hearts which was an automatic get-out-of-Nam pass, so he could return and begin to make a political career for himself by slandering his fellow soldiers in front of Congress.

He would be an ideal pick for VP.

Remember, he was the guy

Sat, 08/16/2008 - 12:40 ET by DontFeedTheTrolls

Remember, he was the guy who figured out how to quickly get three
purple hearts which was an automatic get-out-of-Nam pass, so he could
return and begin to make a political career for himself by slandering
his fellow soldiers in front of Congress.

Yeah, this guy.

Keep the ILLEGALS out, join NumbersUSA to send free faxes to your reps.

I can't resist...

Sat, 08/16/2008 - 12:12 ET by Unsane

John Kerry served in Vietnam?

Wow! I learn something new every day!

What kind of awards and decs did he get for his service there?

The Olympics are now under way in Beijing. May the people of Beijing get thoroughly sick of hearing The Star Spangled Banner. May the Beijing Olympic Committee run out of U.S. flags for the medal ceremonies! USA! USA!! USA!!!

I'm ticked off

Sat, 08/16/2008 - 10:53 ET by candance

I can't watch the video of Phelps winning the 100m. It's been banned from YouTube and pulled off the internet everywhere due to copyright rules. Is NBC doing this or the Olympic Committee?

can

Sat, 08/16/2008 - 11:01 ET by Noel Sheppard

can,

It's in the just-posted sports open thread. :-) ns

thanks Noel

Sat, 08/16/2008 - 11:03 ET by candance

I just found it on NBC's website, so apparently they're being the copyright bullies.

THE copyright bully of ALL copyright bullies

Sat, 08/16/2008 - 12:04 ET by Unsane

That's nothing. Don't EVER mess with the USOC. I remember a high school up the street from me in Aurora, CO once had the mascot name "Olympians" until the USOC came knocking (only one example). And this is ensured by federal law. Notice on some advertisements with any sort of the Olympic theme/logo you will see a reference to said law on the screen if your eyes look at the right place at the right time.

Another thing: if you are a "worldwide Olympic sponsor", the IOC, et. al, will jealously guard your position on your behalf. I found this out the hard way when I bought some Vancouver 2010 Olympic goodies at YVR. For the first time in my life I did not have a Visa card on me; I could ONLY pay for the stuff there with cash or a Visa. So I was taken to a distant cash register where I could swipe my MasterCard for them.

The Olympics are now under way in Beijing. May the people of Beijing gt thoroughly sick of hearing The Star Spangled Banner. May the Beijing Olympic Committee run out of U.S. flags for themedal ceremonies! USA! USA!! USA!!!

Yes! Absolutely!!

Sat, 08/16/2008 - 11:16 ET by Dr_Liberty

I think Kerry would be a great pick! He would make The O appear more in touch with the common man.

FOLLOW THE MONEY

Sat, 08/16/2008 - 11:00 ET by billb

This tired old phrase is always used in the context of criminal behavior. Andrew Cuomo, the new darling of CNBC is picking up where Spitzer left off. As he goes after financial institutions for alleged crimes, huge fines are imposed. What happens to this money? Does it go to the public who were the victims or does it go into the state treasury to be divided by the party in power?

Two for One sale on Empty Suits!!

Sat, 08/16/2008 - 11:08 ET by Dagny Taggart

God help us all! A twofer of arrogant asses, with no vision or plan.

I would like to think this would help McCain, but the reality is that the US media drank the Kool-Aid long ago, and will trumpet this as a brilliant combo. The cattle (otherwise known as the American electorate) will eat this right up, as in "Oh, we're soooo very civilized voting for these elitists. Our European friends will find us so cosmopolitan, progressive, and...........nuanced."

Yeah, I'd like to see how that pair would handle Vlad the Impaler, assorted middle east terrorist types, or even deal with the Euro-weenies without caving.

In the immortal words of

Sat, 08/16/2008 - 11:13 ET by fitzfong

In the immortal words of the wind-surfing gigilo himself...

Bring. It. On.

"Government's view of the economy could be summed up in a few short phrases: If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops moving, subsidize it." -Ronald Reagan

fitzfong.blogspot.com

I think he will choose

Sat, 08/16/2008 - 11:35 ET by RMR

I think he will choose Hilary. I believe the low poll numbers is causing so much panic in Barry's camp that they are beginning to think that they will need the Clinton machine to win this thing. Plus, she have already rolled him on everthing else, why not the VP slot?

It's beginning to look like

Sat, 08/16/2008 - 11:46 ET by Simpatico

It's beginning to look like Obama will be lucky if Hillary chooses him.

Yeah. You might be right

Sat, 08/16/2008 - 12:23 ET by RMR

Yeah. You might be right about that one.

Looks like she slipped him an envelope chuck full of photographs, audio and video tapes.

Local Democratic leaders in

Sat, 08/16/2008 - 22:28 ET by NL207

Local Democratic leaders in my area are deeply divided over Obama. The kool-aid drinking liberals all support him without question. The pragmatists who want to win the White House are ready to throw Barack under the bus, switch their votes, and nominate Hillary.

It aint over yet. Obama hasn't got the nomination yet.

Obama doesn't have a prayer in November.

Keep The Change

Sat, 08/16/2008 - 11:42 ET by Kevpot

How delightful. The One and Lurch. And Dems wonder why they lose elections. Expect much weeping and gnashing of teeth when they get pwned in November, regardless of who Obamessiah chooses: 'the GOP steals another election', 'disenfranchised voters', 'rigged Diebold machines', 'Americans are racists'...yeah the whole 'swiftboat' thang.

Also expect riots in urban enclaves and about that I'm not even joking....change is coming.

Team win in the flip flop olympic's

Sat, 08/16/2008 - 13:21 ET by Scrapiron

The would hold the world record for team 'flip flops' before they arrive in Denver. They have already broke the world record for lies by politicians so they will be a 'twofer' for truthfers. I hate to see the democrat party digging through the bottom of the sewer box looking for candidates, guess they have already rejected all of the 'floaters'.

Old, Retired and glad of it.

Try not to laugh

Sat, 08/16/2008 - 11:46 ET by Blonde

If you want to read something funny...here's a little bit about how vapid Rielle Hunter is....I mean she looks pretty stupid, but try not to laugh at how really stupid she must be (not to mention John Edwards for having an affair with her).

Bimbo alert!

David Gregory, do you know which damn network you lie for? ~ Uncle Jimbo, @Blackfive

And thinking he could get away with it

Sat, 08/16/2008 - 12:23 ET by sarcasmo

Himbo alert! :)

But I think it's time to start speculating about just who sold this one to The Enquirer. My pick would be maybe the wife of the guy who at first took credit for (does anyone doubt it at this point?) Edwards' kid.
JMR

The tax & spend drug war looks racist in the real world.

Blonde

Sat, 08/16/2008 - 12:34 ET by ricklail

I know you are not supposed to kick a man when he is down but I can't help it. The Silky Pony deserves everything he gets and more. I am so happy that all this came out. I have depised this man ever since he ran against Latch Faircloth and won using deceit.

What makes me even happier is to see the Raleigh N&O has continued to investigate this and report it. I can't believe that they would go after him like this after all the water they have carried for him over the years.

Be kind to your kids. They'll be choosing your nursing home.

no worries, rick

Sat, 08/16/2008 - 13:03 ET by Blonde

John Edwards deserves every bit of the attention he's now getting.

Qu'elle hypocrite.

David Gregory, do you know which damn network you lie for? ~ Uncle Jimbo, @Blackfive

Blonde more on Rielle

Sat, 08/16/2008 - 13:47 ET by

energy maven

"You can not support the Troops if you do not support their Mission"

Judgement day.

Sat, 08/16/2008 - 11:52 ET by Rackie

The VP's job is to be an understudy and a Senate tiebreaker.
BHO will always want to be the smartest person in the room.
He will pick a go-fer who knows his place.

Bumper Sticker

Sat, 08/16/2008 - 12:23 ET by Caringwhiteguy

The Messiah & the "MASSiah" - Hope and Change for Common Folks.

Just keeps getting worse and worse and worse.

Sat, 08/16/2008 - 12:25 ET by Thalpy

Just keeps getting worse and worse and worse. Where is Big Al in all of this?

X

Sat, 08/16/2008 - 12:26 ET by serfer62

The clintons are shaping the convention consuming the first 2 days as speakers. Also they got a revote of somekind, so maybe OHbama will not be selecting anyone.

But Macnasty the fool will hand them the election when he annouces Liberman as his VP.

The is an election from hell...

Kerry would be the perfect VP for BHO...

Sat, 08/16/2008 - 12:32 ET by Prester John

...afterall, he speaks French, which is also known as the language of losers.

Merci beaucoup.

(gag)

If Kerry is VP will he

Sat, 08/16/2008 - 12:39 ET by charlietexas

If Kerry is VP will he finally release his military records??

Don't hold your breath.............

mom

Since the MSM lets “The

Sat, 08/16/2008 - 12:39 ET by Eileen Right

Since the MSM lets “The One” do
whatever he likes, I think he'll institute multiple VP's or
Commissars. Some choices:

VP for European Affairs - Kerry

VP for NASA - Kucinich

VP for Ethics – William Jefferson

VP for State Secrets – Leahy

VP for Women's Rights – Uncle Ted

VP for Hair Club – Joe Biden

VP for Energy – Pelosi

VP for Lesbian Rights – Hillary

VP for Homosexual Rights – Frank &
Craig (reaching under the stall instead of across the aisle)

VP for Capitalism – Bernie Sanders

VP for Logical Thinking – Boxer

VP for Racial Reconciliation - Byrd

The Poodle

Sat, 08/16/2008 - 12:40 ET by ricklail

Henceforth we need to refer to Kerry as "The Poodle' as so named by Neal Boortz. He is French, well groomed and the toy of a rich woman.

Be kind to your kids. They'll be choosing your nursing home.

John Kerry as possible VP choice

Sat, 08/16/2008 - 12:48 ET by Travis Noodle

Lurch (Rush Limbaugh's name for John Kerry) as VP???

This makes me sick...

The Cult of Personality

Sat, 08/16/2008 - 12:46 ET by Unsane

While minding my own business the other day, paying for some groceries, I noticed that Obama and family were pictured again prominiently on yet another mag - this time Ladies Home Journal. Seriously...Ladies Home Journal?

The man is not President yet there isn't a place I can go where I can get away from him. I swear we are facing something worse than Turkmenbashy if he gets into office. (Niyazov had to force his media and people to be pliant. Here, the media and millions of others are willingly so.) If not, can someone explain to me why images of Obama MUST be on such publications as Us, People, Rolling Stone, among countless others I have missed?

Obama on Vacation...

Sat, 08/16/2008 - 12:57 ET by Travis Noodle

During the recent Georgian/Russian war crisis, good ole' Barry was off trying to hang ten in Hawaii. Really.

Barry is running for president, an international crisis breaks out and where is he...ahh...let's see...he's on vacation. This guy is such a lightweight. The MSM doens't criticize him for this, in fact he gets a pass. This is not statesmanship...this is pure rookie behavior.

McCain stepped up to the plate and handled it appropriately...he chose not to take a vacation in the middle of a crisis. And of course the MSM give Barry a pass...

Stop Picking On Obama!!!

Sat, 08/16/2008 - 13:05 ET by Unsane

Ah, but remember, The Ruler of All Forbidden Evil (that would be Bush) is a f#$%ing g*dd#$& a--hole for not immediately going to New Orleans for Hurricane Katrina and not personally feeding, clothing, and sheltering every single one of the victims. (In addition, what of Fmr. Gov. Blanco's and Mayor Nagin's responsibilities, the media of course peeped not a bit.)

Yeah.....Leave Barack

Sat, 08/16/2008 - 14:29 ET by motherbelt

Yeah.....Leave Barack Alone!!

Yo Obama...please pick

Sat, 08/16/2008 - 13:19 ET by bigtimer

Yo Obama...please pick Kerry...pretty please.

"America isn't the problem...America is the solution." ~ Rush Limbaugh

I am begging for these two

Sat, 08/16/2008 - 14:20 ET by celator

I am begging for these two clowns to be on the same ticket. Please, please let it happen!

There will be so many hilarious one-liners on NB based on their gaffs it will fill a book. Oh, please, let it happen!

The major media report only half the news. Why are they surprised they have only half the potential audience?

One can only hope Obama

Sat, 08/16/2008 - 14:50 ET by LilyPearl

One can only hope Obama picks him. The swiftboating will be even easier.

Obama / Kerry

Sat, 08/16/2008 - 16:10 ET by Barrack

Putin is licking his chops at the possibility. That ticket would make Jimmy Carter look like Tony Atlas.

www.benbarrack.com

Barrack... ...and Putin

Sat, 08/16/2008 - 16:17 ET by bigtimer

Barrack...

...and Putin wouldn't be the lone stranger in the world lickin' his chops either....

"America isn't the problem...America is the solution." ~ Rush Limbaugh

Putin

Sat, 08/16/2008 - 16:22 ET by Barrack

Agreed 100%...

Only given the situation in Georgia with Russia thinking the US has been rubbing their noses in the loss of the cold war for almost 20 years, he smells the garlic in the kitchen.

Russians could be looking for payback and weak leadership in the US will only heighten that possibility. At the very least, Europe is toast if Obama elected.

www.benbarrack.com

Russia

Sat, 08/16/2008 - 18:56 ET by Unsane

The United States has less rubbed Россйя's nose with the loss of the Cold War and has more ignored them for the past 15 or so years; at least in the eyes of Russians. That frosts them more than anything. Back in the bad old days of the Cold War, the Soviet Union gots TONS of pub all over the world, and had a massive profile. They are a shadow of their former selves and they know it.

Россйя wants a little attention and a lot of respect. Of course, I think they lost that respect long before marching on Georgia: the interference in Ukraine's elections, the turning off of oil pipelines to Ukraine and Georgia in the past in order to extort more cash out of them, and the assassination of Литвинов with Polonium-210 being some of the examples I can think of.

If I were king for a day:

1) Run Russia out of the G-8;

2) Yank the 2014 Winter Olympics from Сочи altogether and give them to the second-place finisher in that competition (it's been done before; Denver got the 1976 Winter Games in 1970 until they were essentially rejected by CO voters in 1972 and moved to Innsbrück).

3) Otherwise make them as much of a pariah as possible,

4) Arm up, train, and equip Georgia a la Afghanistan in the 1980s.

Uns,

Sat, 08/16/2008 - 18:59 ET by Blonde

What about the Ukraine & Poland (threatened with a nuke if they accept our missile defense)?

Hello Cold War.

David Gregory, do you know which damn network you lie for? ~ Uncle Jimbo, @Blackfive

Yet more on Russia just for Blonde

Sat, 08/16/2008 - 19:53 ET by Unsane

I think that the Cold War just might be on its way back. Not because of ideology, and not because of the United States (though the Left and the MSM desperately want us all to believe the latter). It will be because, among other things, the powers that be in Russia have no interest in telling the army where to go, to shut up and color. To elaborate briefly: Russia's main threats are on its frontiers yet within Russia (relatively low-grade worries like Chechnya and the like). But Russia's armed forces desperately want to play Cold War again, and plan intensely against NATO and the United States like it is 1985 (if for no other reason than it allows the generals access to massive amounts of resources and prestige).

Poland and Ukraine having missiles and/or being members of NATO (and in Ukraine's case, possibly being in the EU and NATO someday) deeply irks Russia for historical reasons as doubtless you know. Yeah, I know, I wish Russia would grow the hell up and accept reality, but people and the nations they populate aren't exactly rational all of the time.

All of this is puzzling to me, if only because I am sitting in my perch, just an American from TX, knowing what I know of Russia, thinking to myself, "I would have held off on invading Georgia until 2033 or so". If I weren't in the midst of my home project I would elaborate much further on Russia. Perhaps I will at some point.

I for one do not believe

Sat, 08/16/2008 - 20:07 ET by Blazer

I for one do not believe the "Cold War" was ever actually over Unsane. I will go out on a limb and say in certain instances I believe we have done our part in alienating and poking the Bear with a stick in his cage the last several yrs when we should have been extending olive branches.

Russia on the same token has repeatedly gone against our interests and sides with our enemies most of the time and puts our national security at risk and our soldiers in harms way thanks to their business dealings and posturing.

I'm 100 % with the home team, but at the same time I dont' think we would tolerate Mexico or Canada going Warsaw pact and Russia placing missiles there, just my 2 cents.

However a major conflageration with them is inevitable in my opinion, better sooner than later. If the Georgians woulda had a few of these babies when the Russkies were driving all of that heavy armor across the Georgia countryside, there would have been a "high pucker factor" on their behalf. Game Over.

" http://shock.military.com/Shock/videos.do?displayContent=170717&ESRC=dod...

"You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy. We must be cautious. "

- Ben Kenobi on Liberals, and the MSM.

" The Cake is a lie."

A response to naivete

Sat, 08/16/2008 - 20:28 ET by Unsane

I will go out on a limb and say in certain instances I believe we have done our part in alienating and poking the Bear with a stick in his cage the last several yrs when we should have been extending olive branches. Have you ever written for Foreign Affairs? That sounds like something one of those guys and gals would have written.

How exactly has Russia been poked with a stick in its cage? Oh, what, the withdrawal from the ABM Treaty? So what? We have bent over backwards to ACCOMODATE the Russians, what with offering them access to missile tracking (to monitor threats of their own), offering them a seat as an observer at the NATO table.

In my estimation, we have done NOTHING but offer olive branches and assurances, and have even attempted to be inclusive with them, but the Russians have elected to behave, to use an oft-used word in The Economist, prickly. That isn't the fault of the United States.

I'm 100 % with the home team, but at the same time I dont' think we would tolerate Mexico or Canada going Warsaw pact and Russia placing missiles there, just my 2 cents. No offense, but I don't think you are 100% with the home team. You seem to be blaming the United States here. Sounds to me you would have, or actually have, sided with the Soviets in 1962 when they placed their missiles in Cuba.

Whenever Russia/the Soviet Union has deployed missiles, in Cuba, or in your hypothetical example, it is to be intimidating and bullying. Whenever the United States does so, it is out of defensive needs and desires, AND the United States does not force other countries to go along. As much as the United States would love to deploy missiles in Poland, for instance, that's up to President Tusk and the Polish Parliament. But in your bid to utilize moral relevance, you miss that obvious and glaring point.

Sorry, but the United States has NATO as a defensive alliance, as a deterrent force. This has been demostrated time and time again by its nearly 60 years in existence. Indeed, one can argue, I suppose, that membership in NATO hamstrings various countries penchant for military adventures and has helped to stabilize Europe. On that score alone you would think that Russia would be content to see nations like Poland join an organization that gives them much less to worry about on their Western frontier, and thus freeing up its military to concentrate on threats elsewhere that are just as grave if not more so to Russia. As noted, I am very well aware of the historical grievances Russia and nations like Ukraine and Poland have with each other. But give me a break. The expansion of NATO and the delpoyment of missiles that are to be used in a defensive nature, and sure as all hell could not stop a full-blown release of Russia's missiles by a long shot, does not justify Russia's behavior.

I'm with unsane

Sat, 08/16/2008 - 20:38 ET by candance

We're offering missile defense to eastern Europe not because we want to attack Russia, but because we know Russia will eventually go after them again and they need protection.

Also agree that Russia has been given plenty of chances to join us in the 21st century. They're a major player in the UN right now and just use their position to get away with more bullying.

I agree can, but Russia

Sat, 08/16/2008 - 20:46 ET by Blazer

I agree can, but Russia wants to be the power player in that corner of the world and we consistantly step on their toes and try to take them out of the equation, not only on security and military issues but economic ones as well. A lot of this is percieved as pompousness and arrogance bvy the United States.

"You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy. We must be cautious. "

- Ben Kenobi on Liberals, and the MSM.

" The Cake is a lie."

What do you want us to do???

Sat, 08/16/2008 - 20:52 ET by Unsane

...but Russia wants to be the power player in that corner of the world and we consistantly step on their toes and try to take them out of the equation, not only on security and military issues but economic ones as well. A lot of this is percieved as pompousness and arrogance bvy the United States. This is foreign policy, not high school.

Russia has been given opportunities time and time again to engage with the world and had constantly been offered a seat at the table by the United States. Hell, Bush has looked away in many respects from some of the more unsavory aspects of the Путин regime.

What the hell else do you want the United States to do??? Give back AK for FREE to them? Just to NOT be thought of as a BIG MEANY? Just to be LIKED?

"What the hell else do you

Sat, 08/16/2008 - 21:03 ET by Blazer

"What the hell else do you want the United States to do??? Give back AK
for FREE to them? Just to NOT be thought of as a BIG MEANY? Just to
be LIKED?"

There was the question I wanted you to ask Unsane. No. If we're gonna treat Russia as the adversary which in my opinion they are then they should be dealt with heavy handed.

Putin is ex-KGB and no doubt led a lavish lifestyle under the Communist regime during the Cold War. He doesn't know the difference between socialism and capitalism because his status quo has never changed.He is a dictator and Medvedev is nothing but his puppet.

What I'm saying is we should have fried those tanks as soon as they tried to leave S. Ossetia, no doubt the Georgians have felt emboldened by our backing them up thus far, we would have had no choice had Georgia been accepted into Nato, we should have done it any way.

We let them down.

"You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy. We must be cautious. "

- Ben Kenobi on Liberals, and the MSM.

" The Cake is a lie."

huh??

Sat, 08/16/2008 - 21:08 ET by candance

You really think we'd have attacked Russia if Georgia was a member of NATO?

"You really think we'd have

Sat, 08/16/2008 - 21:19 ET by Blazer

"You really think we'd have attacked Russia if Georgia was a member of NATO?"

Well can, from what i remember from the "Cold War", thats exactly what Nato was designed for. An attack against one, is an attack against all, of course I have my doubts now.

"You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy. We must be cautious. "

- Ben Kenobi on Liberals, and the MSM.

" The Cake is a lie."

Problems

Sat, 08/16/2008 - 21:29 ET by Unsane

Okay, you hit a few of Russia's tanks and involved the United States and Russia in combat for the first time since the United States intervened on behalf of the "Whites" in 1918 in the Soviet Civil War. Then what?

When the Soviets hit Afghanistan in 1979, we armed them and fought an war by proxy. We didn't march down the North German Plain towards East Berlin and Warsaw over that.

Then there is the issue of logistics and how we can support and sustain operations, which I am trying to work out in my mind.

As much as I am ALL ABOUT punching the bad guys in the face, there are ways to go about it.

Hence my list of moves noted above you seem to have ignored, or at least not commented on.

Blazer...

Sat, 08/16/2008 - 20:59 ET by Clear thinker

The commies have never given up on trying to piss off and then dominate the USA. Please read the 45 Communist Goals for America (link below). And they get to thank our liberals for helping them acheive their goals. This is just one of many reasons why liberals should never be in positions of power. They actually work for the enemy either with complete knowledge or out of sheer stupidity.

The cold war only took a short break.

45 Communist Goals for America http://www.nationmakers.com/com_goals.htm

Making fun of AGW Alarmist's is easy http://g

exactly clear

Sat, 08/16/2008 - 21:06 ET by candance

We haven't bullied them. We've simply been their biggest competition and the biggest impediment to them spreading communism.

Blazer no offense, but you seem to think the Russians wouldn't bother us if we didn't bother them. That's just not the way it is.

Thats not at all what I'm

Sat, 08/16/2008 - 21:11 ET by Blazer

Thats not at all what I'm saying can on the contrary. I'm saying call a spade a spade and instead of giving the bully your lunch money when he calls your bluff, punch him in the damn nose and teach im' a lesson.

"You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy. We must be cautious. "

- Ben Kenobi on Liberals, and the MSM.

" The Cake is a lie."

BullSh&t Unsane. Remember

Sat, 08/16/2008 - 20:49 ET by Blazer

BullSh&t Unsane. Remember Kosovo? Same thing. If Wes Clark woulda had his way we would have fired on the Russians at the airport and this thing would have been one and done ten yrs. ago. The Yugoslavians are ethnically slavic and are considered brothers by the Russians.

C'mon Unsane I would have sided with the Russians putting missiles in Cuba? LOL ! KMA !

Theres a whole lot of hypocrisy on both sides of this issue. At any rate I'm with the home team no matter what I feel personally. Anyone against the Russians or the oppressors of freedom is my dog in the fight. Unfortunately it looks as if the United States is gonna let their dog become Bear food. That ought to really get all those ex-soviet states behind us now, if they weren't before. You listening Taiwan ?

"You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy. We must be cautious. "

- Ben Kenobi on Liberals, and the MSM.

" The Cake is a lie."

why blaze?

Sat, 08/16/2008 - 20:51 ET by candance

"That ought to really get all those ex-soviet states behind us now"

Why? So they can suffer the same fate as Georgia, where we call them our ally but then pressure them to make consessions when Russia invades?

Face it blaze, those states will all be looking out for number one and NOT depending on us for protection - just as east Germany gave up on us in 1961.

can, I probably should have

Sat, 08/16/2008 - 20:55 ET by Blazer

can, I probably should have put "sarc-" behind that comment, because I was being sarcastic. All of those ex-Soviet republics will be officially reigned in now, with the Ukraine and Poland on the shortlist, thanks to our no balls leadership.

"You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy. We must be cautious. "

- Ben Kenobi on Liberals, and the MSM.

" The Cake is a lie."

Don't be such an idealist then

Sat, 08/16/2008 - 21:01 ET by Unsane

C'mon Unsane I would have sided with the Russians putting missiles in Cuba? LOL ! KMA ! It really isn't my fault you are looking at foreign policy as a pie-in-the-sky idealist and applying moral relativism all over the place. Note this next line: Theres a whole lot of hypocrisy on both sides of this issue. Welcome to foreign policy. The only thing that matters is the following: What Is In The Best Interests of The United States. The End. Whether it looks like hypocrisy or not scarcely matters.

You listening Taiwan ? Taiwan is different in that we actually have a defense treaty signed with them. Do we have such treaties with Georgia? No, though we have been training their military and integrating them increasingly with the West. The only former Soviet republics we have treaties with are the Baltic states by way of NATO.

"The only thing that

Sat, 08/16/2008 - 21:24 ET by Blazer

"The only thing that matters is the following: What Is In The Best Interests of The United States."

Yep, and the U.S. decided to sit out and whine rather than back up an ally.

"Taiwan is different in that we actually have a defense treaty signed with them."

That treaty aint' worth the paper it's printed on now, I'm sure the Chinese have token notice too. No doubt they will be emboldened also, by what the Russians have done.remeber taiwan is a "breakaway republic" also.

Actions speak louder than words but our in-action concerning Georgia is deafening.

"You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy. We must be cautious. "

- Ben Kenobi on Liberals, and the MSM.

" The Cake is a lie."

Look at some history, and some treaties

Sat, 08/16/2008 - 21:39 ET by Unsane

That treaty aint' worth the paper it's printed on now Really? I didn't realize we were or are obligated by treaty to defend Georgia. When did this happen?

Yep, and the U.S. decided to sit out and whine rather than back up an ally. East Berlin 1953. Hungary 1956. Czechoslovakia 1968. Poland 1970/1980/1981.

Do you always bet ALL of your chips at the poker table or do you evaluate the situation and go from there?

"Do you always bet ALL of

Sat, 08/16/2008 - 21:45 ET by Blazer

"Do you always bet ALL of your chips at the poker table or do you evaluate the situation and go from there?"

We didn't have a treaty to defend Kuwait either, did we ? But then again, their were large amounts of win in that sector.

If I were a bettin' man however and happened to be the leader of the Ukraine or say Taiwan, I may just start whistling past the graveyard when the Russkies or Chi-coms decide to flex their muscles from now on.

"You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy. We must be cautious. "

- Ben Kenobi on Liberals, and the MSM.

" The Cake is a lie."

Well?

Sat, 08/16/2008 - 21:53 ET by Unsane

What say you about my proposed list of responses?

And what say you about the scenario I outlined above? (I notice you didn't answer my question at the end of it...)

Well?

Also I can't help but note your contradiction: you opened this discussion up by whining about how we are SO MEAN to the Russians, yet you seen to have zero compunction about blasting them in the face.

"What say you about my

Sat, 08/16/2008 - 22:09 ET by Blazer

"What say you about my proposed list of responses?"

Differnet times, different resolve simple as that.

"Also I can't help but note your contradiction: you opened this discussion up by whining about how we are SO MEAN to the Russians"

The thread was well opened before I interjected, plus i wasn't whining. I'm simply saying its hard to justify an argument when you yourself were on ther opposite side of the issue, like I said remember Kosovo ?

The Russians are saying if you move enough people into an area then the populace has a right to autonomy and can secede from the country that the territory belongs to.

The U.S. says that if you move enough people into a territory vis-avis Kosovo, then the populace has a right to autonomy and can secede from the country the territory belongs to.

If anything what I'm advocating is a lot more hawkish. If your gonna be a hypocrite at least back it up with force.

"You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy. We must be cautious. "

- Ben Kenobi on Liberals, and the MSM.

" The Cake is a lie."

What????

Sat, 08/16/2008 - 22:13 ET by Unsane

I can't understand how you can be more of a hawk when you cry about how we are SO MEAN to the Russians, and cannot accept the fact that hypocrisy is legion in the realm of foreign policy.

Ummmm, no your mistaken

Sat, 08/16/2008 - 22:25 ET by Blazer

Ummmm, no your mistaken Unsane, I wasn't "crying", I like to be mean to the Russians. Your staring hypocrisy dead in the face and you know it.

Your trying to pull the "patriotism" card, much like a lib would try and pull the "racist" or "Hitler" card because the irony of it all leaves no other recourse.

"You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy. We must be cautious. "

- Ben Kenobi on Liberals, and the MSM.

" The Cake is a lie."

frowns in confusion

Sat, 08/16/2008 - 22:27 ET by candance

Not trying to be mean Blaze cause you know I'm a fan of yours, but you're not making much sense here. You started out saying America has contributed to the problem and should have been extending an olive branch. Now you're saying you like being mean to the Russians?

Maybe I'm missing something, but I'm just not seeing your logic.

What I'm saying is we need

Sat, 08/16/2008 - 22:38 ET by Blazer

What I'm saying is we need to be one or the other can, and quit disguising our intentions. Kosovo imho was Milosovic's heavy handed attempt at a war on terror and reigning in seccionists.

To sum it up as best as I can as far as our policy is concerning the Russians:

How would you feel if a friend invited you out for dinner with your recently nastily divorced from you ex-spouse and they were now a couple?

Yea, I would kick his ass all over Ruby Teusdays.

I think thats how the Russkies have been taking it.

Though I hate the Russians with a passion, I'm sure they still have some pride.

At any rate though not a fan of his he was spot on in this assesment:

http://buchanan.org/blog/2008/08/pjb-blowback-from-bear-baiting/

"You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy. We must be cautious. "

- Ben Kenobi on Liberals, and the MSM.

" The Cake is a lie."

Unsane, I really don't think the Cold War actually ended.

Sat, 08/16/2008 - 20:45 ET by R D Helm

The collapse of the USSR caused a lull, but the underlying differences never really went away. It is eerily similar to the lull that existed between WW I and WW II. That was essentially a twenty year armistice.

We are approaching that twenty year period in the Cold War armistice.

The difference now is that Russia has a steady source of income from oil, something it didn't have before, as massive cash infusions from the West were the only thing that kept it going as long as it did.

Similarly, Germany, between the wars, went through a similar situation.

Welcome to Cold War II.

-Dave.

Another reason for America to drill NOW

Sat, 08/16/2008 - 21:13 ET by Unsane

Yet ANOTHER reason for the United States to intesively exploit its own oil resources and do everything - yes, everything possible - to be energy independent with a garden variety of resources. If we as Americans demand - absolutely demand - Congress start to permit drilling and exploration of oil, no questions asked, this will help bring down the price of crude, and will prove very painful to Russia.

The drilling issue is more of a foreign policy issue than most Americans can even begin to imagine.

Remember, Russia has always been an exploitative economy. Once upon a time, around the time of late imperial Russia, its cash cow was wheat, until some upstart called the United States started to flood Europe with wheat. Some would argue that this triggered great hardships that put Russia on the road to the Russian Revolution.

Oil is Russia's new wheat. What can we do to make them lose out again?

Unsane...

Sat, 08/16/2008 - 21:18 ET by Clear thinker

"What can we do to make them lose out again?"

Send them all of our liberals!

45 Communist Goals for America http://www.nationmakers.com/com_goals.htm

Making fun of AGW http://giovanniworld.w

LOL

Sat, 08/16/2008 - 21:42 ET by Unsane

Haha! I wonder how many of them will go to Lenin's mausoleum as their first stop?

Hey Uns,

Sat, 08/16/2008 - 22:38 ET by Blonde

You're our resident AF guy....what is the state of the Russian Air Forces these days?

Second question, where is the F-22 stationed and is it fully operational yet (having driven through Knob Noster & Whiteman last week, oh how I wish I could have seen THOSE planes)?

David Gregory, do you know which damn network you lie for? ~ Uncle Jimbo, @Blackfive

Blonde - Sorry for the late response...

Sun, 08/17/2008 - 19:45 ET by Unsane

The F-22 can be found at Tyndall (FL), Langley (VA), and my old stomping grounds of Elmendorf (AK). It is designed to replace the F-15, so if you know of an F-15 squadron, you know where the F-22 is going.

I remember watching the infrastructure go up for this plane at Elmendorf and even read some site surveys conducted for the eventual siting of the plane there. (Sometimes being a logistician has its perks. Sometimes.)

The Russian air force is interesting. I imagine that, it being flush with cash as a petro-state, it can afford to allow its pilots more flying and training time. They, at the same time, never throw anything away. They still have plenty of Bears, Colts, Fishbeds and so on as well as Fulcrums, Flankers and Blackjacks. Nonetheless, its state of repair/decay is unknown to me.

What interests me most (imagine that) are the logistics capabilities they have. What is allowing them to sustain operations there? I'd imagine that would be rail, which is what the Soviet Union was highly reliant on and would have used extensively in the event of a march down the Fulda Gap back in the day. Roads are out. Years ago, I read somewhere that TX has more paved roads than the Soviet Union, and knowing what I know of Russian infrastructure, it would not surprise me if that held today. Conversely, one of the things I am working on in my mind is how U.S operations, if there were any, could be sustained there. Sealift, I suspect is out; less because of Turkish politics and more due to limitations provided by the Bosporus. (So no carriers or subs unless the Navy has tricks I don't know about.)

Thanks, Uns.

Sun, 08/17/2008 - 19:54 ET by Blonde

I'd imagine the Sov Air Force is much like that of the Iranians, though. Jets are not motorcycles, and can't be garaged for any length of time, and then fired up and put through their paces. Rubber seals, etc. don't hold up without regular maintenance.

I'd imagine they can get some planes in the air, but keeping them there, well, that's the trick. They can rattle, but I can't imagine they can deliver if it came down to it.

Interesting about the F-22. I saw it fly last year, OMG! It looks to be capable of taking out a squadron of anything else with wings.

I just saw an interview with the President of Estonia. This whole thing is very unnerving.

David Gregory, do you know which damn network you lie for? ~ Uncle Jimbo, @Blackfive

Two a$$hats with....

Sat, 08/16/2008 - 16:46 ET by BEGRUNT

shady backgrounds......perfect match. Boy what fun we will have with this if it occurs. Vietnam will bite the one and the fake birth certificate the other, and that's only for starters......

"If a man does his best, what else is there"?

General George S. Patton Jr.

Please! Please! Please!

Sat, 08/16/2008 - 17:17 ET by Copperhead Ridge

Oh, please let this be true. It would be the ticket in which arrogance and pompousness meet to form a big fat LOSER!

The other good thing would be that we'd never see either of these guys in the South this fall. I pray to Rick Warren that this happens.

The Pompous Driven Life!

Also, I'm tired of everyone calling John F'n Kerry "Lurch." It's not fair to Lurch, who was my favorite character from the "Addams Family."

You raaaang?

Also, I'm tired of everyone

Sat, 08/16/2008 - 17:21 ET by bigtimer

Also, I'm tired of everyone calling John F'n Kerry "Lurch." It's not fair to Lurch, who was my favorite character from the "Addams Family."

You raaaang?

Hey Copperhead.... I'm with ya' there!

"America isn't the problem...America is the solution." ~ Rush Limbaugh

Thank you, Thing.

Sat, 08/16/2008 - 17:27 ET by Blonde

Oh, Bubellah!!!!

*snap snap*

David Gregory, do you know which damn network you lie for? ~ Uncle Jimbo, @Blackfive

is that French?

Sat, 08/16/2008 - 17:38 ET by

: )

"You can not support the Troops if you do not support their Mission"

Certainment!

Sat, 08/16/2008 - 17:44 ET by Blonde

Oui, oui, mon petit chou.

David Gregory, do you know which damn network you lie for? ~ Uncle Jimbo, @Blackfive

morticia!!

Sat, 08/16/2008 - 17:54 ET by

you know what what French does to me

"You can not support the Troops if you do not support their Mission"

OK, you two....get a room!!

Sat, 08/16/2008 - 17:55 ET by motherbelt

OK, you two....get a room!! LOL

:D

Sat, 08/16/2008 - 18:07 ET by Blonde

Oh how I loved the Addams Family.

The very first piece of furniture I ever owned was a "Morticia Chair".

Wish I still had it!

David Gregory, do you know which damn network you lie for? ~ Uncle Jimbo, @Blackfive

New on Drudge: Pelosi says

Sat, 08/16/2008 - 17:58 ET by motherbelt

New on Drudge: Pelosi says the Democrats will offer a bill that includes drilling.

And they will probably lard it up with all kinds of language that makes it unacceptable and then claim that they tried to do something but Republicans refused to go along.

Yep.... That's the plan

Sat, 08/16/2008 - 18:18 ET by bigtimer

Yep....

That's the plan Stan...

All to use in the upcoming election...see we tried...they didn't...knowing full well this will go nowhere....that's why the Gang of Ten better back down....they have enough to guarantee a veto proof bad drilling, meaning a dem bill from the Senate with DeMint leading the way with at least 36 repubs signed on as of last week sometime to defeat the dems BS bill.

Going to be interesting...

"America isn't the problem...America is the solution." ~ Rush Limbaugh

"That's the plan

Sat, 08/16/2008 - 18:36 ET by MrShy

"That's the plan Stan..."

Dems are always coy, Roy..

Seems everyone has hopped off the Obama Bus, Gus... (or ended up under it :p)

No need for Obambi to debate much... (so says his campaign people)

Just drop off the key (for McCain, to the White House), Lee...

* * * SOCKS THE CAT '08 * * *
For REAL Change

Like Pelosi...slip out the

Sat, 08/16/2008 - 19:02 ET by bigtimer

Like Pelosi...slip out the back Jack....

"America isn't the problem...America is the solution." ~ Rush Limbaugh

mb...

Sat, 08/16/2008 - 19:04 ET by Clear thinker

Great news. Not only does it make the saviour of our Planet look bad, we get more of our own oil. Win-win!

45 Communist Goals for America http://www.nationmakers.com/com_goals.htm

Making fun of AGW Alarmist's is easy http://g

YO, NB!

Sat, 08/16/2008 - 18:54 ET by MrShy

Will there be a chat thingy tonight for the evangelical townhall thingy, on this here thingy site?

* * * SOCKS THE CAT '08 * * *
For REAL Change

Rick Warren is one scary false prophet

Sat, 08/16/2008 - 19:19 ET by Daniel Baker

"The reason why I feel confident about fighting the global giants is we're not doing it on our own power. Governments don't have God's power. Non-government organizations don't have God's power. The power of God is granted to the church. We have miracle, wonder working power. That is a power that nobody else has. So we are the only ones qualified to take on the goliaths that everyone else is afraid and has been unable to resolve."

John McCain 2008 Protect Traditional Marriage

Traditional Marriage is not "Divisive" Obama.

The Homestead Squatter....Rob Wexler

Sat, 08/16/2008 - 19:25 ET by Blonde

Has been given a speaking engagement at the Dem convention...because he was one of the first Bambi supporters.

Never mind that his constituents want to toss him out....or that he may face homestead exemption fraud (as a citizen of Maryland, um, Florida, um, well never mind).

Sheesh! These dems are insane!

David Gregory, do you know which damn network you lie for? ~ Uncle Jimbo, @Blackfive

You think that's funny,

Sat, 08/16/2008 - 21:34 ET by motherbelt

You think that's funny, Blonde?

I got this in an email from a friend today:

Subject: Ethics/Morality

The democrats have suddenly developed a sense of morality.

John Edwards has been banned from making a speech at the democratic convention for having an affair and lying about it.

In his place, Bill Clinton will speak.

mb...

Sat, 08/16/2008 - 21:40 ET by Clear thinker

LOLOLOLOL... That's priceless!

45 Communist Goals for America http://www.nationmakers.com/com_goals.htm

Making fun of AGW http://giovanniworld.w

McCain is the man

Sat, 08/16/2008 - 21:05 ET by Gat New York

Just finished watching the Forum.

I can't wait for the debates.

McCain is going to clock Obama.

David Shuster on MSLSD just agreed that McCain clocked Obama

I agree GNY - McCain was so much better

Sat, 08/16/2008 - 21:18 ET by Dee Bunk

I never thought I could like him before, but now after this I think I could get behind him. He seemed so much more confident and straight forward and knowledgeable in comparison to Obama who tried to straddle all sides and avoid questions and didn't show anywhere near the breadth of knowledge that McCain did.

I was so bored with Obama droning on and on (without really saying anything) and himming and hawing and avoiding the questions. I kept looking at the clock waiting for it to be over and I thought - "man if I'm this bored now I can't imagine how it's going to be with McCain". I thought McCain was going to blow it. Boy was I wrong. McCain was quick, forceful, knowledgeable and didn't try to straddle both sides of issues. I have a lot more respect for him now.

Russia

Sat, 08/16/2008 - 21:30 ET by shawn228

Well, I have seen a very common theme on NB the past few weeks. Lets stick up for Georgia and what are we doing waiting so long to do something about it.

It seems some are talking about a military confrontation. Well first of all we have many of our troops in Iraq. We are winning there now which is a relief, and I'm hoping the next President will not Cut and Run.

We are just trying to get the peace right now, we won the war militarily a long time ago. Iraq however was our not our eqaul. Russsia while not quite as strong is almost our military equal. They have jets and capability to make it our shores. You guys might say I am watching too much Hollywood, but how about fighter jets "Russian" getting to Florida loaded with misiles.

Can't happen? You really think Cuba will choose the USA over Russia in lettting them have launching capabilities.

Lets not forget nuclear weapons. Yeah we have to do something, but I think diplocy is the best bet right now.

Real life video games are cool

Shawn I assure you Russia

Sat, 08/16/2008 - 21:37 ET by Blazer

Shawn I assure you Russia is in no way "our equal" on any account. The cream of the crop of their bombers are still propeller driven, and most of their "Cold War" fleet of subs and ships continue to rust in the North Sea. They are still using for the most part outdated old ex-Soviet hardware like T-72's and Tupolov Bears.

The only thing they can muster up as a detterent is a suicidal first launch of ICBM's.They are militarily a nuclear force to be reckoned with, not a conventional force. We would decimate them on the ground.

"You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy. We must be cautious. "

- Ben Kenobi on Liberals, and the MSM.

" The Cake is a lie."

Blazer

Sat, 08/16/2008 - 21:43 ET by shawn228

Blazer okay lets just say they are not our equal. You saying if they launched 30 fighter jets from Cuba, there is zero chance of a one of them getting through to Florida? This is not Top Gun Blazer, Your not going to say "Talk to me goose" and everything will be A Okay.

Eventually one of them will make it through and a fighter jet or jets in downtown Miami will cause mass carnage.

I want to respond to the Russians, but only with a miliary solution only as a last resort, were kinda busy in Iraq right now and Iran.,

You don't think Iran is loving this right now and will also side with the Russians. The threat or nuclear war after that is a huge fear.

Real life video games are cool

No doubt Shawn project

Sat, 08/16/2008 - 21:56 ET by Blazer

No doubt Shawn project enough force and sooner or later you'll get lucky. Yea, were busy in Iraq and iran right now but keep in mind that we haven't exactly ramped up a true war machine like we did in WW II.

U.S.A. population: 304 million

Russian population: 142 million

GDP Russia: 2.076 trill $

U.S.A.: 13.8 trill $

Over twice the population, over six times the GDP.You do the math.

"You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy. We must be cautious. "

- Ben Kenobi on Liberals, and the MSM.

" The Cake is a lie."

Blazer

Sat, 08/16/2008 - 22:01 ET by shawn228

All I am saying is why flex our muscles now? Build up a force, if we do so will the Russians.

Georgia has signed the agreement, lets see where things go from here, before doing something rash, we must excercise patience. Nobody wants another Bay of Pigs.

Real life video games are cool

Shaking my head again

Sat, 08/16/2008 - 22:08 ET by Unsane

All I am saying is why flex our muscles now? Build up a force, if we do so will the Russians. Shawn, why do you think the Berlin Wall is gone? Was Hans Modrow just having a good day? Was it the kindness of lots of Commie hearts?

Or were they confronting overwhelming force?

Fortunately you were nowhere near in charge while the Cold War was on with that attitude...

What do YOU think about my proposed list of responses earlier on this thread?

I agree

Sat, 08/16/2008 - 22:12 ET by candance

Russia is counting on us being tied up with Iraq and worried about our economy. That's one of the reasons why they're doing this now. You want to wait until we are ready to confront them - but the day will never come when we're "ready."

Umm, Shawn the Russians

Sat, 08/16/2008 - 22:14 ET by Blazer

Umm, Shawn the Russians just wont move on Tblisi, thats about the extent of it. At any rate they continue to move troops and armor in even after signing the accord. They are occupying Georgia. Sakashvilli will soon be murdered, exiled, replaced, and a puppet put in his place you can bet the baby's milk money on it.

Plus they offered themselves up as the police errr...I mean peace-keepers there.

"You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy. We must be cautious. "

- Ben Kenobi on Liberals, and the MSM.

" The Cake is a lie."

They are occupying Georgia.

Sat, 08/16/2008 - 22:19 ET by bigtimer

They are occupying Georgia. Sakashvilli will soon be murdered, exiled, replaced, and a puppet put in his place you can bet the baby's milk money on it.

I know you are most likely right...but...I pray you are wrong Blaze.

"America isn't the problem...America is the solution." ~ Rush Limbaugh

Not happening

Sat, 08/16/2008 - 22:03 ET by Unsane

Shawn, the Russians will do no such thing because if that happens, or if they decided to hit downtown Anchorage or even raid Nome, they know that they will be recalled for civil defense duties after the Minuteman IIIs begin impacting their soil.

Don't do any driving down I-25 on that day.

were kinda busy in Iraq right now and Iran., So?

Shawn

Sat, 08/16/2008 - 22:08 ET by Blonde

Sorry to upset your applecart.

But there's a little place called Boca Chica Naval Air Station about nine miles north of Key West.

Cuba? You have to be kidding me. Tell me, how many carriers does Russia have?

David Gregory, do you know which damn network you lie for? ~ Uncle Jimbo, @Blackfive

Blonde

Sat, 08/16/2008 - 22:15 ET by shawn228

I will be completely honest with you, I do not know how many aircraft carriers Russia has. I was just using that as one example. I also know that Cuba will have no problems letting them use their airspace.

You think Mexico and Canada will be letting us use theirs? Also both countries have the end game in Nucleaur weapons. If we decide to do a missile defense system, they will move nukes to Cuba. Doe you think the system will stop all the missiles that will be sent out way. How successful were the test runs we did before? It was successful 2 times out of ten. You like those odds?

I am just saying we should practice restraint and see how this plays out first.

Real life video games are cool

That's the point, Shawn

Sat, 08/16/2008 - 22:22 ET by Blonde

We don't need anyone's airspace. We have CARRIERS. Functioning ones.

First of all....Russia would have to get their aircraft to Cuba. They going to do that in a submarine?

Seriously Shawn, you need to do a bit more reading before you start blathering on about this stuff. Your little "scenario" is absurd.

What the hell do you think George Bush is doing right now, playing tiddly winks?

David Gregory, do you know which damn network you lie for? ~ Uncle Jimbo, @Blackfive

"What the hell do you think

Sat, 08/16/2008 - 22:25 ET by shawn228

"What the hell do you think George Bush is doing right now, playing tiddly winks? "

Actually I am applauding the President for excercisig restraint, he is not going in like a Cowboy.

Look if the Russians keep going further and don't pull out, lets do something about it, but why start a arms rate, scare the people and have oil go up to 300 a barrell.

Real life video games are cool

For crying out loud, Shawn!!!!

Sat, 08/16/2008 - 22:34 ET by Blonde

Do something useful instead of whine and make up movie scenarios, would you please?

Write Nanny Pelosi a letter or something...demand an up or down on drilling, now.

We don't need to "start an arms race". Do you have a clue what bankrupted the Sovs? And their armed forces aren't much better off than they were when we forced them out of business the first time.

If you want to keep up with the grown ups, you're going to have to do better than this.

David Gregory, do you know which damn network you lie for? ~ Uncle Jimbo, @Blackfive

blonde

Sat, 08/16/2008 - 22:46 ET by shawn228

I'm not try to whine, I'm sorry if it comes across that way. I'm just simply saying to use patience before we do anything rash.

If you did not like my arms scenario, how about my real world one? If we build up our forces, so will they. The world will be very nervous and jittery, with the threat of WW3 starting, oil will jump.

I am not disagreeing with you about doing something about it, I am saying don't jump the gun. I do not see why you think my argument is not vallid, at least that is what I think you meant with your grownups comment.

Real life video games are cool

a few questions for Shawn

Sat, 08/16/2008 - 22:48 ET by candance

1)You say you applaud Bush for using restraint. Do you approve of his agenda thus far and do you think Condi is being effective?

2)You're afraid Russia will build up their arms if they percieve a threat from us. After what you've witnessed in Georgia and the rhetoric being used against Poland/America how can you say Russia's not building their arms already?

3)If you were President Shawn sitting in the oval office, what would you be doing?

None of these are trick questions or an effort to play gotcha.

Candance, I feel Condi is

Sat, 08/16/2008 - 22:53 ET by shawn228

Candance, I feel Condi is doing a good job and showing strength, but not backing down. She has lot resting on her shoulders now and I would not want to be her right now.

Yes Russia can build up their arms and that will make them ever scarier. If we start sending alot of our troops there, so will they. I will be a standoff.

If I was the President, I will see how this agreement works our, If the Russians make a play for another big chuck of land....then and only then, would I think of a military response.

Real life video games are cool

we'll just have to disagree

Sat, 08/16/2008 - 23:07 ET by candance

the Russians make a play for another big chuck of land....then and only then, would I think of a military response

IMO you are essentially saying that Georgia is a small country and not worth the risk of a confrontation, even though they're our ally who sent troops into Iraq.

Remember WW2. The west decided to wait until Germany invaded an important country like Poland - but by then it was too late. What happens, really, seriously, when Russia invades a bigger country? Know what I think will happen? The left will put off that confrontation once more and call for restraint to see if Russia keeps their word this time.

You keep saying Russia will build up and get even scarier if we threaten them. I'm saying their plan is to do that regardless. I'm scared now. Not when they make their next move.

Shawn, School's about over

Sat, 08/16/2008 - 22:50 ET by Blonde

First of all, your scenarios are absurd. Nuking Miami with a figher jet based out of Havana? Bring it on, baby! Remember, I'm in that fall out zone.

Secondly, oil is going to jump anyway. I was serious, if you want to actually DO something, write to Nanny. I understand she only reads stuff that comes from her district. Tell her you have a legion of friends who want an up or down, since she's so freaking arrogant she won't read her mail from us outlanders.

Thirdly, your missile "scenario" is fantasy. It's not 1963 and Putin's not Kruschev. Putin is an egomaniac, not an idiot.

Finally, do you seriously think we'll go head to head in Georgia? You're thrashing around like a ten year old.

David Gregory, do you know which damn network you lie for? ~ Uncle Jimbo, @Blackfive

blonde is right

Sat, 08/16/2008 - 22:38 ET by candance

Domestic drilling is absolutely vital right now. You say we can't engage Russia without oil hitting 300 a barrel. What happens when we do nothing and then no amount of money in the world can buy us a barrel?

Drill Often....Drill

Sat, 08/16/2008 - 22:48 ET by bigtimer

Drill Often....Drill Everywhere!

Btw...thanks BD after all this time....and Gingrich stole it...just kind of changed a few words...same meaning....don't tell me he hasn't been reading NBs for a long time...he had to know how we all felt with his so-called GW debate with Kerry on C-SPAN we all listened to live and commented on back then...pathetic.

Glad he and McCain has seen the light now...'bout time.

"America isn't the problem...America is the solution." ~ Rush Limbaugh

Shawn, the Russkies only have one carrier

Sat, 08/16/2008 - 22:41 ET by jefflebowski

and their T-72 tanks are decades old. I read an interesting article that said that their equipment is old and decades behind western technology and armaments. Plus, our military is experienced after fighting over the past years.

I don't think that there is any way that we will go to war over Georgia, but Russia needs to pay a severe price for this. 70% of their revenue comes from oil. We need to lower the price a great deal. The Russians and Chinese behave a lot better when they are poor.

Jeff Lebowski

www.angrywhitedude.com

Blaze

Sat, 08/16/2008 - 21:45 ET by Blonde

The armor the Russkis drove into Georgia didn't look like the old stuff to me.

Any track toads here?

I see this incursion as a well planned testing maneuver. They're not done yet. Not by a long shot.

I'd imagine the Germans are rethinking their Obama worship about now. Heaven help us if he's elected. We need a seasoned Cold Warrior right now. Did McCain even get into this tonite?

David Gregory, do you know which damn network you lie for? ~ Uncle Jimbo, @Blackfive

Those were T-72's Blonde,

Sat, 08/16/2008 - 21:49 ET by Blazer

Those were T-72's Blonde, maybe with a laptop or two in em'. I noticed most had re-active armor on them also, just keep in mind the Iraqi's used to have a lot of T-72's also, before they met our Hellfires and depleted Uranium rounds.

"You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy. We must be cautious. "

- Ben Kenobi on Liberals, and the MSM.

" The Cake is a lie."

If Bush had any guts, he'd

Sat, 08/16/2008 - 22:01 ET by Free Stinker

If Bush had any guts, he'd have some of our planes paainted with the Georgian Air Force logos, and load up some J-SOWs to drop on those T-72s.

"They're both doofuses!" --Mark Levin (speaking of Obama and McCain)

LOL-Free,

Sat, 08/16/2008 - 22:04 ET by R D Helm

If Bush had any guts...

And therein lies the problem. :-(

-Dave.

Bingo. I wonder how

Sat, 08/16/2008 - 22:11 ET by Free Stinker

Bingo.

I wonder how tough the Russians would feel if a flock of Longbow Apache helos start mixing it up with one of their armored columns.

Hell Free, the Russkies

Sat, 08/16/2008 - 22:18 ET by Blazer

Hell Free, the Russkies turned tail and ran when we gave some simple sheepherders some stinger missiles back in the eighties.

"You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy. We must be cautious. "

- Ben Kenobi on Liberals, and the MSM.

" The Cake is a lie."

Just imagine what the

Sat, 08/16/2008 - 22:35 ET by Free Stinker

Just imagine what the Georgians could do with some Javalin anti-tank missles . . .

Speaking of image . . . (to the tune of John Lenon's "Imagine")

Imagine no Russian armor,
it's easy if you have a plan.
Use A-10s, or Apaches,
or put Javalins into the Georgians' hands.
Imagine all the Ruskies,
running for their li-i-ives.

Imagine no invasion,
the libs already do.
We can make it happen,
With dozens of B-52
Imagine carpet bombing,
the invading Ruskie armies . . . oh . . .

You may say that I'm a warmonger,
but I'm not the only one.
I know my tax dollars have bought lots of whoop-ass,
and we can get the Ruskies on the run.

Blazer, only problem is, its too late for Georgia.

Sat, 08/16/2008 - 22:36 ET by R D Helm

The Russians have won the day. Its over for Georgia.

I only hope that when (not if) Russia turns its attention to the Ukraine, the West comes up with a much better response then merely packing off Dr. Rice, who quite frankly is in so far over her head she cannot even see the bottom..

-Dave.

Blonde had a good

Sat, 08/16/2008 - 22:37 ET by Free Stinker

Blonde had a good idea.

We need to send a flock of A-10s over to Ukraine for "joint manuvers" so they'll be handy and all warmed up when the Russians decide to get frisky.

"They're both doofuses!" --Mark Levin (speaking of Obama and McCain)

Yeah, Free

Sat, 08/16/2008 - 22:43 ET by Blonde

Lend them some jets. And lots of ammo.

David Gregory, do you know which damn network you lie for? ~ Uncle Jimbo, @Blackfive

Free, J has a great idea, but I also hope some boomers...

Sat, 08/16/2008 - 22:45 ET by R D Helm

...are being re-positioned right now, and their missiles being re-targeted en route.

-Just in case....

-Dave.

Yep RD, and their are

Sat, 08/16/2008 - 22:43 ET by Blazer

Yep RD, and their are plenty of more spaces on the Chessboard I'm sure we'll lose.

"You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy. We must be cautious. "

- Ben Kenobi on Liberals, and the MSM.

" The Cake is a lie."

right blaze

Sat, 08/16/2008 - 22:50 ET by candance

At the risk of being facetious though, you've implied that we've somewhat brought this on ourselves by acting like a global bully.

No what I'm saying is we

Sat, 08/16/2008 - 22:57 ET by Blazer

No what I'm saying is we should be the Bodygaurd, not get the picked on guy all jazzed up and ready to kick butt and then turn tail and run when the bully really shows up.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sKMjpN2iCmc

"You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy. We must be cautious. "

- Ben Kenobi on Liberals, and the MSM.

" The Cake is a lie."

Blazer, only problem is, we are fast running out of board.

Sat, 08/16/2008 - 22:54 ET by R D Helm

-Dave.

man....

Sat, 08/16/2008 - 22:23 ET by MrShy

I'm gonna have to refer to my friend down in Georgia (our Georgia, in Atlanta... was married to a military/Air Force fella) to get the 101 on all this jargon and weaponry you guys are throwing around on this thread.

* * * SOCKS THE CAT '08 * * *
For REAL Change

Woulda shoulda coulda

Sat, 08/16/2008 - 22:03 ET by Blonde

Too bad we didn't see this coming and send a squadron of A-10's over there for joint exercises.

I really thought we were done with this long ago. We need to yank the Russkis up short and deny G8 & WTO status, for starters.

And never forget, Putin is KGB. He's NOT a nice man.

David Gregory, do you know which damn network you lie for? ~ Uncle Jimbo, @Blackfive

Too bad we didn't see this

Sat, 08/16/2008 - 22:20 ET by Free Stinker

Too bad we didn't see this coming and send a squadron of A-10's over there for joint exercises

You're a genius Blonde ! ;-)

"Too bad we didn't see this

Sat, 08/16/2008 - 23:28 ET by Eileen Right

"Too bad we didn't see this coming and send a squadron of A-10's over there for joint exercises."

I am positive that we were well aware of Russia massing for an invasion. I question why we sat back and let an ally get worked over!!!

And that is THE question

Sat, 08/16/2008 - 23:33 ET by Blonde

Exactly.

I don't have a clue what Russia's regular wargames look like. Years ago, we used to do one in Germany every year (Reforger)...a huge field exercise.

We'll just have to wait until one of our poster's here weighs in on the subject....but if Russia's maneuvers were out of the ordinary, I'd have to question why we didn't make some pre-emptive moves of our own (as I mentioned above).

And I lay alot of the blame on the Euro members of NATO who didn't admit Georgia to the alliance.

David Gregory, do you know which damn network you lie for? ~ Uncle Jimbo, @Blackfive

I just can't believe that

Sat, 08/16/2008 - 23:45 ET by Eileen Right

I just can't believe that all those folks who work in deep dark places could not see what was going on, especially in view of the ongoing issues. If all the kids in spook central were surprised, we are in trouble. Of course all that info gets passed/filtered up through the chain, who knows how it's painted in the end.

Georgia, NATO

Sun, 08/17/2008 - 19:58 ET by Unsane

I read a nauseating article not long ago in Foreign Affairs where the author whines the reason Georgia was not invited to NATO at the Bucharest summit earlier this year was (wait for it) NOBODY LIKES US because WE ARE SO MEAN because of the Hyper-Evil Bush!!! The author goes on to state that we need to TALK to people and ENGAGE the enlightened Europeans and be the most super-nice nation in the world...

(gag)

I suspect the REAL reason Georgia was not invited to NATO along with Ukraine was the simple fact that the Europeans have no balls. They get a fat chunk of their oil and natural gas from Russia and thus they don't want to MAKE THEM REALLY MAD. That, and with all the coddling, pampering and babying of their populations taking up so much of their respective GDPs, they have zero will. Europe CAN have the means to strike back, but they have zero will whatsoever, all the while "moraliz(ing) on the evils of unilateralism", in the words of an awesome Foreign Policy contributor.

The Europeans knew damn well that if they extended the invite to Georgia, that they would have to invoke Article 5 of the NATO charter on Georgias behalf, something that they are 100% unwilling to do for the reasons outlined above. If you ask me they are the lead weights in this situation.

you're right Blonde

Sat, 08/16/2008 - 21:55 ET by candance

The attack was two fold:

1) Make an example of Georgia so the neighborhood doesn't get too involved with the west.

2) Test the waters to see how quickly they can invade/how the world reacts.

And that remark about Poland was not some casual thing. When a country steps up the rhetoric you know there's more than rhetoric involved.

understood shawn

Sat, 08/16/2008 - 21:48 ET by candance

No one here seriously thinks a military strike on Russia is the solution. But it would behoove us to send some ships into the Black Sea to prevent a blockade and help Georgia bolster defenses around their capital.

The *last* thing we need to be doing is pressure Georgia into making consessions. Yet Condi is over there doing exactly that.

The showdown is inevitable. That's the problem we're facing here. It's not like North Korea where we can negotiate our way to a possible solution. Russia is like the bully at school who is mad at you for embarrassing him - avoiding him only puts off the eventual fight.

Russia needs to learn a hard lesson

Sat, 08/16/2008 - 22:05 ET by jefflebowski

I agree that we won't go head to head with Russia but they need to pay a severe price. Since most of their wealth is based on the high price of oil, we need to greatly lower it with immediate domestic production. If this isn't the case for our "leaders" to permit drilling, then nothing is. Russia needs to be kept poor....they behave better. Remember, the Soviet Union didn't end because they are nice guys....they ran out of money. Putin is a soulless killer and needs to be treated as pond scum.

Jeff Lebowski

www.angrywhitedude.com

For starters: No WTO

Sat, 08/16/2008 - 22:15 ET by Free Stinker

For starters:

No WTO membership for Russia
Invite Ukraine into NATO
Arm Ukraine with F-35s(with J-SOWs & AMRAAMS), Aegis Cruisers, and Abrams Tanks.
Arm Finland similarly.
Arm Lithuania, Latvia, and Estonia similarly.
Throw the Russian Embasador the hell out of the US.

"They're both doofuses!" --Mark Levin (speaking of Obama and McCain)

The last thing we need

Sun, 08/17/2008 - 06:09 ET by Jack Bauer

The *last* thing we need to be doing is pressure Georgia into making consessions. Yet Condi is over there doing exactly that.

Unfortunately this is the Rice/State Depratment "Gaza/West Bank Arab" playbook. Constantly pressure Israel to make concessions to those trying to destroy them.

To think I ever imagined Rice could be a possible VP pick for the Republicans. Urggghhh. I admit I was totally wrong.

However... don't know if anyone noticed but I did predict a few weeks back in an NB post that Colin Powell would endorse Obama!

Vote 4 change. Vote 4 anything. See Jack & Mr Shy's first campaign ad for the ONLY viable 3rd party candidate.

This will annoy everyone, but

Sun, 08/17/2008 - 06:30 ET by sarcasmo

I think Pat Buchanan's right and most/all of you are wrong. Georgia thought they could get away with poking a bear in the eye. They were wrong. Flame away.
JMR

The tax & spend drug war looks racist in the real world.

That's a point of view. But

Sun, 08/17/2008 - 06:36 ET by Jack Bauer

That's a point of view. But I think you are wrong.

Vote 4 change. Vote 4 anything. See Jack & Mr Shy's first campaign ad for the ONLY viable 3rd party candidate.

Ok, well answer this...

Sun, 08/17/2008 - 06:53 ET by sarcasmo

Did Georgia, or did they not, provoke Russia (rudely, on the eve of the Olympics, no less) just as Pat says? And on top of that, has our media done a good job of telling that whole story? I say "yes, and no." IMO, what we've just witnessed is the nation-state version of the tale of Timothy Treadwell. Screwing around with bears isn't always a bright thing to do, because they'll occasionally decide to Darwin Award you.
JMR

The tax & spend drug war looks racist in the real world.

What a shock

Sun, 08/17/2008 - 20:02 ET by Unsane

Imagine that. A Libertarian standing for doing nothing foreign policy wise.

What do YOU think? If I want to read what the hate-filled foreign policy idiot Buchanan thinks, I'll grab his latest book where he argues that Hitler should have been left alone to terrorize Europe.

What a shock

Mon, 08/18/2008 - 03:36 ET by sarcasmo

An interventionist meddler wanting to rescue the Timothy Treadwell of nation states from its own folly, on the US taxpayers' backs. It's not "hate" for Buchanan to state the obvious about what this dolt did when he poked a bear right before the Olympics. He thought he could get away with it, and he got smacked bigtime, instead.
JMR

The tax & spend drug war looks racist in the real world.

Amusement

Mon, 08/18/2008 - 06:04 ET by Unsane

I find it utterly amusing you label me an "interventionist". Perhaps you can show me where I have advocated military intervention in this situation?

And perhaps you can also show me a map that indicates that South Ossetia is part of Russia. In my mind, Georgia is within its rights to do what it needs to there because South Ossetia is part of Georgia. So, cry all you want about Russia being "poked in the eye". All that is Buchanan's excuse (you still have yet to tell me what YOU think) to do absolutely NOTHING.

Your crying about intervening "on the US taxpayers backs" likewise falls on deaf ears. I know you desperately want the United States to completely disengage from the world and be a 100% whiny laughing stock on the world stage because IT WILL SAVE SO MUCH MONEY!!!!!!!, but that attitude is extremely dangerous, as WWII shows. And extremely costly.

"Russsia while not quite as

Sun, 08/17/2008 - 04:09 ET by ckc1227

"Russsia while not quite as strong is almost our military equal"

Didn't Russia get their butts kicked by Afghanistan?

Having said that, Georgia was advised by the U.S. to not escalate military actions against South Ossetia. In hindsight, that was probably good advice.

Uh Oh...look out danbo

Sat, 08/16/2008 - 23:18 ET by Blonde

Of course, I only believe computer models when it's a tad convenient.

Keep your fingers crossed for us all down here, please...Faye looks like it might not be such a fiasco.

David Gregory, do you know which damn network you lie for? ~ Uncle Jimbo, @Blackfive

Good for you JLH

Sun, 08/17/2008 - 00:27 ET by shawn228

Jennifer Love Hewitt the star of one of my favorite shows Ghost Whisperer has gotten lots of flak for gaining weight. Hopefully she is not starving herself and she is doing this the healthy way, but she has lost 18 lbs and she looks great.

Real life video games are cool

Even though that magazine

Sun, 08/17/2008 - 12:28 ET by Roger the Shrubber

Even though that magazine cover looks edited big-time (like most of them are), I have always been a huge fan of the Breast Whsiperer, and will continue to be a big fan of her mammaries, er, mannerisms and acting skills in the future...

LMAO Roger

Sun, 08/17/2008 - 17:11 ET by shawn228

You might want to be careful there bud, really remember the Paris Hilton thread?

Ghost Whisperer is one of my favorite show. Sad that I'm hope almost every Friday night :-( I know many on this site could care less about network tv, but also can't wait for Prison Break, 24, Greys Anatomy, Heroes, Football Season, Hockey Season, and SNL.

Real life video games are cool

Two weeks till college,

Sun, 08/17/2008 - 19:32 ET by Roger the Shrubber

Two weeks till college, three til NFL, woohoo!

Can't wait to see The Office again, too, Shawn!

Kerry/Obama

Sun, 08/17/2008 - 03:28 ET by Wesen

Every time I see those two it looks like Kerry has picked his VP.

Saddleback Smackdown

Sun, 08/17/2008 - 09:18 ET by Cool Arrow

I just finished watching last night's debate.

I come away from it with increased respect for John McCain as well as Pastor Rick Warren.

If I had one fear about these discussions it was that Pastor Warren would skirt the tough issues in favor of more touchy feely fare. He asked the right questions and allowed the candidates the opportunity to answer (as John McCain did) or wiffle waffle (as Obama did).

Warren should have brought up immigration, but he hit all the other important issues.

Obama resorted to lying about the number of abortions increasing under George Bush.

I grade McCain's and Warren's carriage of themselves an A-. Obama gets a C (in a public school "pass on the problem to the next grade" sort of way)

When Obama said decisions about abortion are "above my pay grade", it was an indictment against his entire decision making process.

I ♣ my seal