For general discussion and debate. Possible talking point: Nancy Pelosi is trying to save the planet!
With fewer than 20 legislative days before the new fiscal year begins Oct. 1, the entire appropriations process has largely ground to a halt because of the ham-handed fighting that followed Republican attempts to lift the moratorium on offshore oil and gas exploration. And after promising fairness and open debate, Pelosi has resorted to hard-nosed parliamentary devices that effectively bar any chance for Republicans to offer policy alternatives.
“I’m trying to save the planet; I’m trying to save the planet,” she says impatiently when questioned. “I will not have this debate trivialized by their excuse for their failed policy.”
Any thoughts, NewsBusters?














Comments Policy
“I’m trying to save the
July 29, 2008 - 09:59 ET by r22weiss“I’m trying to save the planet; I’m trying to save the planet,” she says impatiently when questioned. “I will not have this debate trivialized by their excuse for their failed policy.”
Madam speaker, seeing that many of the "clean energy" technologies are still 10-20 years away, how can we bridge this gap when you refuse to alow drilling of any kind? You claim that the current administraition has a failed pollicy, yet you offer no new ideas for how to bridge the gap until the new technologies are available to all citizens. How can the american people trust you to lower their energy costs, gass costs, and offer new ideas when you have proven over the past 2 years that you would rather do nothing than work with the administration for the good of the country.
My List of Things To Do
July 29, 2008 - 10:04 ET by Dr_LibertyThings to do today:
* Smile hard.
* Pretend not to understand criticism.
* Have staff member actually explain criticism to me.
* Read Daily Kos.
* Smile hard.
Nancy
Dr
July 29, 2008 - 10:09 ET by DelsaI think you meant to say, "Try Hard to Smile"
With all the surgery and botox she has to reeeally concentrate.
just sayin
was nancy elected to "SAVE
July 29, 2008 - 12:05 ET by TruthMongerwas nancy elected to "SAVE THE PLANET?!"
not hardly
her job is "house-keeping"
i get fired if I don't do my job, nancy
you must be special:)
I got a feeling...
July 29, 2008 - 10:01 ET by Dr_Liberty(my second Beatles reference today)
I got a feeling that this enviro-garbage is starting to wear thin on people. I see it in some of the semi-greens around me. They are generally conservative, but buy into some of the green talk.
We were just discussing a recent incident in Washington State where a motorist fought back against a bunch of mob bicyclists known as "Critical Mass" -- they apparently block traffic once a month to make an environmental point.
Those "cyclists" should try that with real "bikers" around. They wouldn't get far.
<insert witty signature here>
I just went to that site...
July 29, 2008 - 16:49 ET by HeavyChevyI applaud that driver and only wish he was driving a semi-trailer.
"9 out of 10 doctors agree that flag burning is the number one killer of liberals."
Don't waste our time telling us ethanol is a bad idea...
July 29, 2008 - 10:09 ET by sarcasmoThe Senate was determined to implement what a billionaire expert warned them was a bad idea. And people still wonder why I distrust the government so much...
JMR
The tax & spend drug war looks racist in the real world.
I know I don't wonder.
July 30, 2008 - 09:37 ET by UphillHave you seen Picken's commercial where he states that he has a plan for our country's energy woes? It's quite the teaser.
She could help
July 29, 2008 - 10:10 ET by Delsaour planet by stepping off
Still Spinning
July 29, 2008 - 10:21 ET by JDWSave the earth, the libs, or the people...
JDW
Who got the gavel? SHE got the gavel!
July 29, 2008 - 10:27 ET by OklahomaIsShapedFunnyhttp://www.politico.com/news/stories/0708/12122.html
“And when you win the election, you win the majority, and what is the power of the speaker? To set the agenda, the power of recognition, and I am not giving the gavel away to anyone.” -Pelosi from this interview.
I'm somewhat new to following the political goings-on. Were the repub's ever so tough-sounding when they had the majority. Sounds like she's bowing up... like flinching her shoulders at us. She could probably kick Lindsay Graham's *ss, right?
I am rooting for Mccain. if in the event Obama wins, I will then be rooting for some tough conservative leaders.
((dang that "up your arsenal" girl!!!)) (( I am going to go blind!))
I will not have this debate
July 29, 2008 - 10:25 ET by dscottI will not have this debate trivialized by their excuse for their failed policy
More Projection from libs. So let's look at this from the flip side, the doubling of the cost of gasoline since the Dem 2006 takeover of Congress has been a resounding success?
The banning of domestic oil drilling has resulting in lower, the same or greater oil consumption in the US? Greater consumption via oil coming from foreign sources. So all the Dem efforts to reduce oil consumption has been a resounding success?
The budget deficit has continued to increase despite over $1 trillion a year increase from the Bush tax cuts. The Dems want the tax cut to expire and Obama has said he would sign any bill that ended it earlier. So by rasing taxes on a slowing economy which is realing from energy rising faster than it can absorb, slamming the economy into a recession is your plan to increase the revenue into the US Treasury, you call this a successful plan?
The banning of domestic drilling has cost the US Treasury $2.5 Trillion over the last 5 years in lost royalities. So Dems think adding $2.5 Trillion to the national debt instead of balancing the budget is a successful strategy?
Demanding that illegals not be deported and thus allowing them to take jobs from citizens is good pulic policy? Ever increasing unemployment is good for the economy and the standard of living? Hospitals flooded with people who can't pay their bills is good for the solvency of the medical care industry? The medical care industry charging (to cover their losses) insurance companies and Medicare more for services rendered is going to keep prices down?
Yeah, I can see why you don't want a debate, you might just get blamed for being an incompetent idiot once the alternatives are submitted for consideration.
Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid, starving the poor one gallon of ethanol at a time. Fill your tank with E85 and cull a village.
Lib Skewed Logic
July 29, 2008 - 10:51 ET by JDWThe party which represents the poor, depraved, impecunious... does not build from the bottom up. These cads are focused on obliterating from top down. It is quite obvious who is most affected in the end.
JDW
darn it..
July 29, 2008 - 11:45 ET by wizardjrYou beat me to it DS.
Well said.
Trying to Save the Planet
July 29, 2008 - 10:30 ET by Gothampc“I’m trying to save the planet; I’m trying to save the planet”
No, you're cozying up to the likes of Al Gore and people trying to make a profit off of global warming.
On a sidenote, it seems that trying to save the planet really isn't helping Democrats for their convention. Seems the wind turbines aren't generating any electricy.
http://facethestate.com/articles/dnc-boondoggle-carbon-credits-fund-broken-turbine
Self-propelled gas bags
July 29, 2008 - 10:46 ET by Dr_LibertyGive those wind turbines time. When the conventioneers start arriving in Denver there will be enough blustery hot air to fuel the entire country for a week.
<insert witty signature here>
I'm trying to save the planet
July 29, 2008 - 11:12 ET by merlin61What ego!!!!! She thinks she can single-handedly
save the planet? She can't even run the Congress.
She stops oil drilling from even being voted on.
Her ego is not going to save the planet, run cars,
ships, trucks, trains,etc.etc.etc. not even the
wind from her mouth will accomplish anything.
Pelosi's latest makeover
July 29, 2008 - 10:47 ET by Dr_Libertycan be found here.
<insert witty signature here>
Excelsior!!! *shwiiiiiish
July 29, 2008 - 10:49 ET by wiwfExcelsior!!! *shwiiiiiish (flying sound)*
The Rocky Mountain Collegian: Illustrating Idiocy
Question
July 29, 2008 - 10:50 ET by DelsaWhy is SOBama going to meet with the Chairman of the FED???
Who the hell does he think we think he is??
I cannot stand the brass this walks around with.
What gives?
I am really getting angry and frustrated.
Delsa he is a member of the
July 29, 2008 - 10:55 ET by Dan The Man 2Delsa he is a member of the Senate and a canditate for President. As much as I disagreed with his stops in Germany UK and Paris and meeting with heads of state there Obama is now in domestic territory and is actually doing what he should be doing. Now is he just trying to do his senate job, no, but its better than his whirlwind international tour.
Nuke em til they glow then shoot em in the dark.
Interesting one on top of the other news headlines on Excite
July 29, 2008 - 10:50 ET by PawpawNAnyone else catch this interesting 2 headlines, one on top of the other, on Excite today. Seems they're not sure which is true!
•
Stocks jump after consumer confidence data
•
Americans remain gloomy about economy
Guess we're gloomy but have confidence? Someone help me out here!
Not all stocks jumped
July 29, 2008 - 10:57 ET by sarcasmoUnless that earnings cliff Merrill just jumped off counts...I think it's questionable whether they'll even survive to Christmas.
JMR
The tax & spend drug war looks racist in the real world.
Sarc, so you say no MERRILL LYNCH in 2009! Are you a betting ma
July 29, 2008 - 21:43 ET by PawpawNSarc, so you say no MERRILL LYNCH in 2009! Are you a betting man? Think I'd like a little of that action. Everyone yells at oil cos getting record profits, never heard anything yelling over ML & others when they got theirs! Now they pay, but they'll stay!
Merrill Lynch Gone by Christmas?
July 29, 2008 - 21:50 ET by Free StinkerNot with John Thain at the Helm!
"They're both doofuses!" --Mark Levin (speaking of Obama and McCain)
Not that particular bet, and I said *maybe* no Merrill.
July 30, 2008 - 03:13 ET by sarcasmoBut the bets I have made with NB regulars, I've won. 100% of 'em. I'd make a bet on GM's "Ditech" division dying before I'd bet on Merrill dying, but how could the bet be fair if we're seeing constant socialist bailouts under a system dishonestly described as "capitalism"??
As long as we're not under a system of capitalism, and we're obviously not, any proposed bet on any financial stock is impossible unless the terms of the bet deal with what to do in case of yet-more socialism in the land of the free. In theory, because of nasty counterparty risk possibilities, the bailout of Bear Stearns might have already saved Merrill's existence once this year.
JMR
The tax & spend drug war looks racist in the real world.
Doing his Senate JOB?
July 29, 2008 - 11:05 ET by DelsaYou have to be kidding.
SOBama is meeting with ? and meeting with ? and meeting with ?
Who cares?
Let him sit in on hearings! That may be a good start and he'd actually be in the Senate doing the WORK of a Senator.
What is this marxist going to take away from speaking to the Fed Chair?
Is he going to change his economic outlook or approach.
No!!!
This is all for Public consumption. There is no there there.
Just like the prayer he left at the wall. He gave permission for the note to be published so we might all think he is a Christisan and not a member of the G Damn America Church.
Think what you will but SOBama is doing anything BUT his job!
SOBama is doing anything
July 29, 2008 - 11:26 ET by Dan The Man 2SOBama is doing anything BUT his job! I agree but meeting with the FED chair is within teh scope of being a senator.
Nuke em til they glow then shoot em in the dark.
You mean Obama is on the
July 29, 2008 - 11:32 ET by dscottYou mean Obama is on the Banking Committee afterall? snark, snark
Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid, starving the poor one gallon of ethanol at a time. Fill your tank with E85 and cull a village.
Excellent point dscott
July 29, 2008 - 12:08 ET by DelsaI am sorry I forgot to make it myself.
But then I have fellow posters like you.
thank you
real estate in florida? call me!
Thanks, I must be on a roll
July 29, 2008 - 12:13 ET by dscottThanks, I must be on a roll today...at least on this thread. LOL
Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid, starving the poor one gallon of ethanol at a time. Fill your tank with E85 and cull a village.
Peloooosi
July 29, 2008 - 11:09 ET by Mulligan22Someone needs to ask her how much more imported oil is she comfortable with? We're near 70% now, is 80 or 90 ok with her?
One of her solutions is to release oil from the SPR. Wonder if she knows how it got there? By drilling someplace for it.
Instead their ideas are to call hearing with oil company executives and accuse and point fingers. That didn't work, so now it's off to accuse speculators. Then it was sue opec.
Now Rep. Nadler of NY wants to reopen the old canal system. I see the price of mules rising.
"Their failed policy"
July 29, 2008 - 11:16 ET by donsaliman"I will not have this debate trivialized by their excuse for their failed policy.”
Whose Failed policy? She is not a member of this congress?
She is a part of "their failed policy"
The Dems always blame the Republicans for the Dems "failed policy"
The Republicans are not angels themselves and I believe they are part of the problem also, but the Dems I believe are the bigger part of the problem
I suppose Obami is
July 29, 2008 - 11:22 ET by ConservativeRexI suppose Obami is meeting with the Fed Chair to get an idea on just how high he can raise our taxes. The last man that was running for president and said he was going to have to raise taxes was Mondale. Obami needs to be treated worse than Mondale.
However, I do not think McCain is up for hammering Obami. Such is politics today. Unfortunately. I was waiting for a Willie Horton moment.
You missed it? That lady
July 29, 2008 - 11:42 ET by dscottYou missed it? That lady crying on TV about her dead husband and 2 sons killed by an illegal who was repeatedly jailed is not a Willie Horton moment????? If the GOP had any sense what so ever, they would get her permission to run a NO MORE OPEN BORDERS campaign contrasted with Obama's nuanced position on illegal immigration. http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=Danielle+Bologna&search=Search
Here you go GOP, can you Keystone Cops do something right for change and finally put illegal immigration in perspective to hit home where people live?????? jeeeesh.
Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid, starving the poor one gallon of ethanol at a time. Fill your tank with E85 and cull a village.
Good point dscott. I am
July 29, 2008 - 11:49 ET by ConservativeRexGood point dscott. I am familiar with that story. It does play with those of us that are trying to get McCain to close the border.
However, I am waiting for the "Willie Horton" ad that gets the left's lather up. At that point I'll know we'll have a winning strategy. I guess I just like to poke the left in the eye. I know, that's just plain mean.
not a chance
July 29, 2008 - 11:53 ET by wizardjrExcept for a few good hearts like Michelle Bachmann up here in Minnesota the greatest number of Republicans have imploded. They've had a number of good items to beat the Demoncrats bloody with but passed up every time. They've made themselves hostage to the Dims with the faint expectation of getting some of their pet legislation through. Yeah, and the check's in the mail.
Jeez, d.....that's all they
July 29, 2008 - 19:04 ET by motherbeltJeez, d.....that's all they need.
Any Republbican committee runs an ad with that, anywhere, and the Dems will be screaming "Willie Horton!" morning, noon, and night.
Until McCain apologizes.
Which he will.
And if the group doesn't listen to him and stop it, the Obama campaign will rag on him for being powerless to stop it.
It's a lose-lose situation.
Obama's theme song
Just another liberal
July 29, 2008 - 11:47 ET by bradbenj5952Just another liberal elitist with a Messiah complex. There is room for only one Savior in the universe. The rest are immitators.
"Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house." Acts 16:31
And now, today's Shrub
July 29, 2008 - 11:47 ET by Roger the ShrubberAnd now, today's Shrub Report®:
Another clear example of this administration's failed policy of torturing innocent prisoners. Close Guantanamo!
Sorry, folks, but this is just plain silly.
Stalwart NBer Saw the Light agrees with this Shrubber that these two make a great pair!
As Europe moves away from Socialism, the American Left wants to move us CLOSER…
The Time-Waster of the Day.
Whoops! The Hopeful Changer gets busted.
Rock and roll birthdays today: Rush's Geddy Lee ( real name: Gary Lee Weinrib) turns 55, while guitar god John Sykes turns 49.
This brings back memories of the baby milk factory, doesn't it?
Thank God the Dems did not get their latest bill passed.
Al-Qaeda gets their priorities in order.
Look at the bright side: this might count for their annual bath!
This tactic didn't work against Iraq, so let's try it again!
So, my union brothers and sisters, where are your dues going?
And, finally, An Olympics Update.
And the Shrubinator does it
July 29, 2008 - 18:35 ET by RukusAnd the Shrubinator does it again! Great report Shrub, I always enjoy this section at NB. Thumbs up!
"Nuke 'em 'til they... oh hell, just shoot 'em!"
Jim Adkisson
July 29, 2008 - 12:06 ET by j. frank wilsongoes on a shotgun rampage at the Tennessee Valley Unitarian Universalist Church because he hated the liberal movement - as well as gays. His home library included copies of "Liberalism is a Mental Health Disorder" by radio talk show host Michael Savage, "Let Freedom Ring" by talk show host Sean Hannity, and "The O'Reilly Factor," by television talk show host Bill O'Reilly. And a set of brass knuckles. Maybe he used them as a bookend.
How is Faux Noise ("Some people say...You decide!") going to handle this one?
Are these authors going to demonstrate any personal responsibility for the hate they spew every day? Ann Falter suggests pointing out Mr. Adkisson's political views is irrelevant. If one were writing about a KKK lynching, should a newspaper mention their views on race?
The Church advocates women's and gay rights, feeds the homeless, and founded a chapter of the ACLU. On Sunday eight good people were shot watching children perform Annie - and two have died.
Bad things happen to good
July 29, 2008 - 12:22 ET by dscottBad things happen to good people Frank, no place is immune to nutjobs and every group has a couple; but come to think about it, your group does have an inordinate number of nutjobs so I understand your attitude to point the finger in order to deflect your group's general failings.
btw - from what I heard so far, you know, that concept of gathering facts before you form an opinion, is this person went to that church in the past, his wife was a member and he wasn't... So as more news comes out and someone besides the MSM starts asking good questions like: Was there marital difficulties, did the guy blame the church for souring of marriage, did some of the parishioners takes sides or support the other spouse in said difficulties.... You know those probing human interest questions.
Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid, starving the poor one gallon of ethanol at a time. Fill your tank with E85 and cull a village.
what was the unibomber
July 29, 2008 - 12:29 ET by TruthMongerwhat was the unibomber reading again:)...?
Was it Earth in the Lurch
July 29, 2008 - 12:37 ET by ricklailWas it Earth in the Lurch by Owl Gore?
Be kind to your kids. They'll be choosing your nursing home.
we must hold al
July 29, 2008 - 13:28 ET by TruthMongerwe must hold al responsible!
btw what was Stalin reading? or Hitler? or Hussein? or OBL? or Castro?
Who is Ann Falter?
July 29, 2008 - 13:12 ET by Roger the ShrubberWho is Ann Falter?
Here's a couple of more
July 29, 2008 - 13:18 ET by dscottHere's a couple of more tidbits of info on the case: http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,393103,00.html?sPage=fnc/us/crime
...Adkisson's ex-wife once belonged to the church but hadn't attended in years, said Ted Jones, the congregation's president. Police spokesman Darrell DeBusk declined to comment on whether investigators think the ex-wife's link was a factor in the attack...
...The couple had been married for nearly 10 years when Liza Alexander wrote in requesting the order that Adkisson threatened "to blow my brains out and then blow his own brains out." She told a judge she feared for her life...
...Adkisson was a loner who hates "blacks, gays and anyone different from him," longtime acquaintance Carol Smallwood of Alice, Texas...
...The Unitarian-Universalist church advocates women's rights...
..."It appears that what brought him to this horrible event was his lack of being able to obtain a job...
...Adkisson, who had been on the verge of losing his food stamps...
...Adkisson "stated that he had targeted the church because of its liberal teachings and his belief that all liberals should be killed because they were ruining the country," investigator Steve Still wrote...
So Frank, with some sparse info. let's connect the dots and do some speculation, shall we? I will speculate the following, of course you can speculate using less facts and just blame everyone else as you already have demonstrated.
Many churches including Christian Churches have feminist women's support groups who preach women's victimization (code for women's rights) and tell women how to toss their husbands from the home using DV charges by making unsubstantiated claims which no one can contradict other than the accused. The ex-wife went around and assassinated his character to friends and neighbors thus isolating him from any support system. Adkisson blamed the Church for causing his divorce and supporting his ex-wife in taking him to the cleaners leaving him destitute. Adkisson being unemployed and at the prospect of going hungry seeing he had nothing left to loose in this life decided to take as many self righteous liberals with him as he could and go out in a blaze of glory.
Now I don't approve of what he did, but I can understand why he did it. You know Frank, the most dangerous person in the world is the one who has absolutely nothing to loose. I personally find it's the self righteous ones who typically put others in that position in their zeal to prosecute their moral imperitives. You get my point?
Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid, starving the poor one gallon of ethanol at a time. Fill your tank with E85 and cull a village.
dscott:
July 29, 2008 - 13:40 ET by j. frank wilsonThere wasn't any speculation in my comments. Straight from the available news reports. You, of course, may speculate all you want. It won't replace the facts as we know them today. You make the x-Mrs. Adkisson to be the bad person in all this - with no basis in fact, of course. "Unsubstantiated claims?" If she thought her life was in danger, events proved her to have been correct.
Nice job selecting and editing the story. Police Chief Sterling Owen was quoted as saying Mr. Adkisson "hated the liberal movement" and was upset with "liberals in general as well as gays."
Fact.
Four page "manifesto" found in Mr. Adkisson's truck. And books by Bull O'Really?, Sheer Insannity and The Silly Savage found in his home.
Facts.
Nice job smearing the wounded and dead as self righteous. You know these poor folks personally? Or is it the simple fact that they were there to see some children perform Annie enough for you?
Finally, if you understood history you would understand the most dangerous people are not those with nothing to lose. Nothing to lose, nothing to fight for. Revolutions foment from people who have started to get something and then see it threatened. Those are the ones to watch out for.
So Frankie what was your
July 29, 2008 - 13:52 ET by Dan The Man 2So Frankie what was your point? I think we should hold this nutcase and all nutcases feet to the fire prosecuting to the fullest extents of the law. Was that your point, or were you trolling?
Nuke em til they glow then shoot em in the dark.
in a desperate partisan
July 29, 2008 - 14:27 ET by TruthMongerin a desperate partisan attempt to stifle free speech, libs wish to burn books instead of letting people read them, so the left tries to hijack and leverage any possible event - tragic or otherwise - and in this case hold conservative authors culpible for the actions of criminals with conservative books in their library...
of course in true leftward fashion the same logic would not apply to them - such as in the case of the unibomber - do as they say not as they do, hypocracy thy name is liberal, etc...
the left is desperate for vindication and relevancy these days, and in their pursuit there is no bottom to the depths they seem willing to sink
when the Oklahoma bombing happened they tried to blame Rush and talk radio
and these days I've even seen them try to blame 9/11 on the current Iraqi invasion - even though 9/11 happened first
TruthMonger:
July 29, 2008 - 16:45 ET by j. frank wilsonYou comment "...libs wish to burn books instead of letting people read them..." I've read about some very misguided attempts to ban "Huckleberry Finn." Can you name any other times "liberals" have tried to ban books?
The most famous book burnings, of course, were by the ultra-right wing Nazis.
Here in the US, we've seen parents object to Harry Potter (witchcraft), The Catcher In The Rye (both the most banned and most required title in American schools), et. al. Who was behind those efforts?
Then we had The Silly Savage take people to court for having the nerve to quote his hate - that one didn't get very far, either, did it?
uh frank, the nazi's were
July 29, 2008 - 17:08 ET by TruthMongeruh frank, the nazi's were socialists - ultra left wing by US standards
i could name many, many liberal attempts to ban books - from univerisities and grade schools
from public libraries
and not just books - but also films (The Passion)
and talk radio (Rush Limbuagh)
and media networks (Clear Channel)
and songs (CCM)
and much much more if you like...
but you are correct that some conservatives also try to ban books - not as many, or successfully as the left...
TruthMonger:
July 29, 2008 - 18:47 ET by j. frank wilsonThe Nazis were socialists in name only. They were ultra right wingers who hated - and fought - the moderate and left wing folks (including, of course, communists). The Silly Savage has been pushing for years the idea that the Nazis were left wingers. They weren't.
While the original conversation was about books, what do people have against Clear Channel? That it's too much consolidation?
I certainly do not agree that liberals try to ban books as often as conservatives. And you said "burn" - not ban...
dang we are parsing today -
July 29, 2008 - 19:41 ET by TruthMongerdang we are parsing today - i do apologize
i used the word "burning" more metaphorically than literally - my fault for not providing a disclaimer
and we will just have to agree to disagree on the Nazi's - although they walked and talked like commies - they didn't like non-nazi commies due to competitive ferver as opposed to ideological disagreement but whatever - I know you don't want to see it that way - and that's fine - I don't want to see it your way either
bottom line is the left has a serious fascist censorship problem - not the right - and it's been that way for about 100 years now...
TruthMonger:
July 29, 2008 - 20:25 ET by j. frank wilsonBook burning is a very specific act, forever made particularly terrible by its Nazi association. Ole BlunderRush, by the way, is a very different case from newspapers or books. BlunderRush depends on the public airwaves (not that the broadcasters actually pay for the use of them, of course).
Check out the web sometime for some very interesting discussion of whether the Nazis were right- or left-wing. They were quite different from communists (take religion, for example, or economics).
Then you claim liberals are fascists? And have been trying to censor for 100 years? Huh? You mean when the Postal Service wouldn't let people mail information about birth control? Or Anthony Comstock? Or the Hayes Office? You'll find that conservatives are far more interested in limiting books they do not agree with.
Finally - fascism is an economic theory - not a political one.
Sounds like socialism to me
July 29, 2008 - 20:38 ET by dboFinally - fascism is an economic theory - not a political one
Sounds like socialism to me. Amongst the 25 points that Hitler started the Nationalist Socialist Party were:
We demand the nationalization of all (previous) associated industries (trusts).
We demand a division of profits of all heavy industries.
We demand an expansion on a large scale of old age welfare.
We demand the creation of a healthy middle class and its
conservation, immediate communalization of the great warehouses and
their being leased at low cost to small firms, the utmost consideration
of all small firms in contracts with the State, county or municipality.
We demand a land reform suitable to our needs, provision of a
law for the free expropriation of land for the purposes of public
utility, abolition of taxes on land and prevention of all speculation
in land.
We demand struggle without consideration against those whose
activity is injurious to the general interest. Common national
criminals, usurers, Schieber and so forth are to be punished with
death, without consideration of confession or race.
We demand substitution of a German common law in place of the Roman Law serving a materialistic world-order.
The state is to be responsible for a fundamental reconstruction
of our whole national education program, to enable every capable and
industrious German to obtain higher education and subsequently
introduction into leading positions. The plans of instruction of all
educational institutions are to conform with the experiences of
practical life. The comprehension of the concept of the State must be
striven for by the school [Staatsbuergerkunde] as early as the
beginning of understanding. We demand the education at the expense of
the State of outstanding intellectually gifted children of poor parents
without consideration of position or profession.
The State is to care for the elevating national health by
protecting the mother and child, by outlawing child-labor, by the
encouragement of physical fitness, by means of the legal establishment
of a gymnastic and sport obligation, by the utmost support of all
organizations concerned with the physical instruction of the young.
We demand abolition of the mercenary troops and formation of a national army.
We demand legal opposition to known lies and their promulgation
through the press. In order to enable the provision of a German press,
we demand, that: a. All writers and employees of the newspapers
appearing in the German language be members of the race: b. Non-German
newspapers be required to have the express permission of the State to
be published. They may not be printed in the German language: c.
Non-Germans are forbidden by law any financial interest in German
publications, or any influence on them, and as punishment for
violations the closing of such a publication as well as the immediate
expulsion from the Reich of the non-German concerned. Publications
which are counter to the general good are to be forbidden. We demand
legal prosecution of artistic and literary forms which exert a
destructive influence on our national life, and the closure of
organizations opposing the above made demands.
We demand freedom of religion for all religious denominations
within the state so long as they do not endanger its existence or
oppose the moral senses of the Germanic race. The Party as such
advocates the standpoint of a positive Christianity without binding
itself confessionally to any one denomination. It combats the
Jewish-materialistic spirit within and around us, and is convinced that
a lasting recovery of our nation can only succeed from within on the
framework: common utility precedes individual utility.
For the execution of all of this we demand the formation of a
strong central power in the Reich. Unlimited authority of the central
parliament over the whole Reich and its organizations in general. The
forming of state and profession chambers for the execution of the laws
made by the Reich within the various states of the confederation. The
leaders of the Party promise, if necessary by sacrificing their own
lives, to support by the execution of the points set forth above
without consideration.
dbo:
July 29, 2008 - 21:56 ET by j. frank wilsonHere is an interesting and rather straightforward discussion of the issue:
http://remember.org/guide/Facts.root.nazi.html
Perhaps the extremes of political thought are not linear - perhaps the very left and very right wings are, indeed, wings that curve back upon the body politic with their tips touching.
I would hope we can agree that both extremes are certainly around the bend...
To each according to his needs
July 29, 2008 - 22:37 ET by dboPerhaps the extremes of political thought are not linear
Perhaps, but I was commenting on your statement "fascism is an economic theory - not a political one". Notice your link states exactly the opposite. It is an interesting article but of little relevance here. The comments in your link by a "pointy headed professor" do not change the ideology of Hitler. The words above are Hitler's himself. Notice the emphasis on "we" and "the state". Nationalization of industry, division of profits, expansion of social security, expropriation of land, control of the press, "free" state education, elevating national health all sound like left wing talking points to me.
I would hope we can agree that both extremes are certainly around the bend
I'm glad you you think the above economic platform is extreme. As for your generic statement, yes, I can agree to that.
Frank, you are kidding,
July 29, 2008 - 22:31 ET by futbolisgreat1Frank,
you are kidding, Liberals do not try to censor books? eh?!
I will tell you one book that is banned from all public schools thanks to Liberals. The Bible!
Furthermore, Soviet Union also had its days of book burning. Unsure where you get off claiming that it was only the Nazis that did book burnings.
Not to mention that while both Nazis and Communists have murdered people in the millions. Communist economic and political ideology has caused the death of over 100 millinon human beings. Nazis, about 20 million. Both are horrific, horrific numbers. But if you want to play the numbers game, the Communist ideology is far worst than the Nazi ideology.
Funny thing is that Liberals do not mind the Communist brand. In fact, too many of them are proud to wear it. Do not forget Obama's campaign office which has hanging behind the campaign leader a Castro picture with the Cuban flag. Liberals are proud Communist.
The Nazi brand, as it should be, is associated with murder, intolerance, death, holocoust. Well Frank, so should the Communist brand.
Maybe you can explain why LIberals hate Nazis, yet too many of them embrace communist.
The Liberal's love affair with Cuba and the Soviet Union during the Cold War is horrendous, disgraceful and pathetic.
Don't forget that the New York Times wrote a loving and very positive article on the Soviet Union and Stalin, while Stalin was murdering millions of Russians, Latvians, Ukranians, Georgians, etc.
Do not forget that many of today's Liberals leaders in the 1960s were young, dumb fools that carried with them Mao Tsung's little Red Book. Today this young and dumb fools are no longer young, but they are still dumb and fools.
fotbolisgreat1:
July 30, 2008 - 08:02 ET by j. frank wilsonPrayer in public school is not illegal. The ACLU went to court on the side of a high school young lady who wanted a Bible quote under her photo in the yearbook. Can the Bible alone be taught? Nope. Is it banned? Are students forbidden to read a Bible at school? Not the school my kids go to.
Sorry you bought the urban myth about the poster. It wasn't Castro, by the way. And it wasn't a "campaign office." It was an office of volunteers. While I wouldn't put up such a photo myself, I do own a pair of Vans with the Che photo and crossed bones behind it. Cool, actually.
Since we're strolling down history's lane, what about the love affair conservative isolationists had with Nazi Germany prior to WW II. Ford and Lindberg and the rest? IBM selling punch cards? Remember Sen. Vandenberg and how FDR had to ease us into the fight on the side of the Allies?
And those Republican administrations that propped up tinpot dictators because they were rapid right wingers - including the Shan of Iran? CIA intervention in elections - including for years financing the conservative party in Japan?
History's path is littered with errors - on both sides.
Lord, Help Us! Nazis
July 29, 2008 - 22:27 ET by kathleenirishLord, Help Us!
Nazis were pagans. Nazis liked human experimentation, and human life was not sacred and worthy, but only useful as a means to an end. Sounds a lot like some of what modern liberalism spouts. Especially so, when it comes to the enviro-terrorists who hate human life because it somehow hurts and destroys the planet. Abortion is a sacrament to most liberals!
kathleenirish!
July 29, 2008 - 22:34 ET by bigtimerOMG!
Kath..where the heck ya' been?!
So glad to see you!
Missed your posts and your one and only wit!!!
Please do not stay away so long gal!!!!!!!
"America isn't the problem...America is the solution." ~ Rush Limbaugh
Kathleenirish, EXACTLY!!!
July 29, 2008 - 22:36 ET by futbolisgreat1Kathleenirish,
EXACTLY!!!
Liberals that support abortion and fight for abortion are no different than the Nazi SS, and all the other Nazis that fought hard and joined in the murdering of millions of Jews.
In fact, much like the Nazis dehumanized the Jews in order to feel ok when they murdered them, Liberals today have dehumanized the human baby as to not feel guilty for killing him/her. Of course, this is the same thing that Communists in China, Russia, Cuba, N. Korea, etc have also done. Dehumanize a sector of society in order to justify murdering it in the millions.
Not only that, many top brass Nazi leaders were homosexuals who constantly raped young children. Pedophile was a way of life for many Nazis. The old Liberla mantra that homosexuals were persecuted under the Nazi regime is a not exactly true. The Nazis ranks, from top to bottom were filled with homosexuals.
Both the Nazi movement and the Communist movement are very much like today's LIberal movement.
Of course the Nazi's had one good thing going for them...
July 30, 2008 - 01:23 ET by HillbillyKingthey were against abortion.
In 1936 Nazi leader Heinrich Himmler created a Reich Central
Office for the Combating of Homosexuality and Abortion: Special Office
(II S), a subdepartment of Executive Department II of the Gestapo
(emphasis mine)
If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you; But if you really make them think, they'll hate you.
Don Marquis 1878-1937
alot of "aborted" Jews
July 30, 2008 - 12:27 ET by TruthMongeralot of "aborted" Jews coulda used some help from this guy:)
abortion has become the
July 30, 2008 - 12:26 ET by TruthMongerabortion has become the world's greatest holocaust
with planned parenthood clinics as the furnace factories
chugging their choking "abortion smoke" into our increasingly smoggy moral atmsophere
further defiling and polluting our ethical envirnoment
dang - shakespeare aint got nothing on this post - i'm on a roll:)
j frank, once again, you have proven your government-schooled...
July 29, 2008 - 22:36 ET by R D Helm...background.
The number of actuall "differences" between Nazis and commies can, quite literally, be counted on one finger.
It appears your government-agent (and that is exactly what they were) "teachers" screwed you in ways that you will probably never even realize.
As Dean Wormer once said, "Fat, drunk, and stupid is no way to go through life, son."
The truth is insensitive. - Neal Boortz
thanks RD
July 29, 2008 - 22:38 ET by candanceYou tickle me with your blunt answers and straightforward logic.
candance,
July 29, 2008 - 23:33 ET by R D HelmThanks, buddy.
I have always felt that the direct approach is best, as I somewhat pride myself in the fact that I have not allowed the, a'hem, "de-nadding" of political correctness to affect me.
Sadly, I cannot say the same about many so-called conservatives these days, and that includes some here at NB. :-(
Of course, this attitude of mine has gotten me into trouble at times, IYKWIM. :-)
The truth is insensitive. - Neal Boortz
Mr. Wilson, You make some
July 29, 2008 - 17:55 ET by Roger the ShrubberMr. Wilson,
You make some great points. The Soviet Union never banned, censored or silenced dissent. Keep up the great work.
Sincerely,
Felix Dzerzhinsky
RtS:
July 29, 2008 - 20:13 ET by j. frank wilsonThe old Soviet Union has precisely as much relevance to the liberal/progressive movement of 2008 as do the WW II Nazis to the conservatives of 2008.
You lose, Frank.
July 29, 2008 - 22:14 ET by BlondeBad, bad, bad style there, Frank.
Too bad to be you, wrong and losing debates wholesale.
David Gregory, do you know which damn network you lie for? ~ Uncle Jimbo, @Blackfive