For general discussion and debate. Possible talking point: American troops coming home?
The Bush administration is considering the withdrawal of additional combat forces from Iraq beginning in September, according to administration and military officials, raising the prospect of a far more ambitious plan than expected only months ago...Any troop reductions announced in the heat of the presidential election could blur the sharp differences between the candidates, Senators John McCain and Barack Obama, over how long to stay in Iraq. But the political benefit might go more to McCain than Obama. McCain is an avid supporter of the current strategy in Iraq. Any reduction would indicate that that strategy has worked and could defuse antiwar sentiment among voters.
If this occurs, will they come home or be sent to Afghanistan? Is this an affirmation of how well the surge has worked, or how poorly things are going in Afghanistan? Who would this help: Obama or McCain?














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I really don't know if it
July 13, 2008 - 10:49 ET by motherbeltI really don't know if it will help McCain, but it certainly won't help Obama.
After all, what's the big deal with a promise to withdraw troops if President Bush starts doing it now?
Shoot 'em all; let God sort 'em out! - Marge Simpson
agree motherbelt
July 13, 2008 - 11:58 ET by candanceCan't say how much McCain will benefit from this since he's already known as a big war supporter and is too dense to take advantage of things that come his way.
OTOH, like you say Obama can't keep insisting it's a quagmire if Bush starts bringing folks home.
A big factor that is
July 13, 2008 - 10:56 ET by MidAmericaA big factor that is bringing the messiah down to earth is high oil prices. The reason that anti-war sentiment got so high was the number of troop deaths coupled with the drumbeat of defeatism by the dems and the media. When the war was going so badly and the home economy was going so well people saw the war as just a futile waste of time, money, and lives. Now people have a sense of just how vulnerable we are when it comes to energy. So now obamas positions about war and diplomacy are giving independent voters the uncomfortable feeling he would be weak when we might need a real strong leader.
The war was never going "so
July 13, 2008 - 22:03 ET by zfThe war was never going "so badly" there was always steady improvements and if energy is why people think we should be in Iraq and/or fighting terroism and not what happened on 9/11 that showed what happens when you leave despots to their own devices than I could care less what they think.
Random open thread stuff
July 13, 2008 - 11:00 ET by the strugglerContessa Brewer has to be the dumbest Cable News Moonbat on the air.(MSNBC)
Remember,in the 80's,if the guitar wasn't pointy,you weren't allowed to play lead.
I'm not sure McCain knows
July 13, 2008 - 11:02 ET by ThisnThatI'm not sure McCain knows how to take advantage of a good situation. He seems more inclined to hand that advantage over to his oponents.
That said, however, when you read the fine print of this possiblity, it still reads -- our decisions will depend on the ground situation. This has been Bush's marching orders all along -- and it's something Obama could NEVER duplicate -- stability, predictability, and a winning attitude. Obama's a loser in all 3 categories.
___________________________________
If you can read this, thank a teacher. If it is in English, thank a Soldier. - My barber
Military analysis of the McCain Campaign.
July 13, 2008 - 13:24 ET by BDI'm not sure McCain knows how to take advantage of a good situation.
BD
July 13, 2008 - 18:10 ET by Rush FanThanks for the clear and concise analysis regarding John McCain. Rush Limbaugh commented recently on how the media felt about McCain: "That's why they love McCain, the maverick, because he was compromising, and he was selling out his own side in the process, back when he was a senator, of course."
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"They are actively promoting the decline of America." ~ Rush Limbaugh on liberals and Democrats
I would agree with you on
July 13, 2008 - 21:29 ET by BDI would agree with you on the point that the media liked McCain as long as he was spearing his colleagues, and McCain obliged as often as possible.
But secretly, the press I think is amused the McCain is still secretly pining away for them. They used him, and now he is discarded.
We are Scr**ed!
July 13, 2008 - 23:36 ET by needleLook, say what you will about Mitt Romney; since he dropped out of the race we have not had an even vaguely serious contender who was not a Senator.
Senators are fat-headed partisans who have been conditioned to look at and handle issues from a one-sided point of view. The last two Senators presidents were LBJ (‘nough said) and JFK (now recognized as vastly overrated, except by nostalgia-drunk liberals). The fact that we have managed to avoid any for 40 years says something all on its own.
Now we are Scr**ed!
In a perverted sense, one could argue that Obama’s short exposure in the Senate is a plus, until one looks at the rest of his “stellar” resume and realizes that there is absolutely nothing else there.
Impunitas semper ad deteriora invitat.
Retail sales up six percent
July 13, 2008 - 11:08 ET by the strugglerObama say's there's "no doubt" we're in a recession.
"Disappearing bees leading
July 13, 2008 - 11:13 ET by the struggler"Disappearing bees leading to higher food costs." What about ethanol?How does that effect food costs?
Oh Lord have mercy.
God Bless America and those
July 13, 2008 - 11:22 ET by JamesonLewis3rdGod Bless America and those who rely on the MSM for their information; who may never even notice that, one day in the future, we're not even there (Iraq) anymore.
These propoganda-fueled automatons will trade one derangement syndrome for the latest avant-garde symptoms and be herded down yet another avenue of desolation and misery where the only sounds are those of the wind sandblasting a parched, dead planet into a speck.
Thank you
________________
Hebrews 11:8
Jeremiah 33:3
In 1988 before the Nov.
July 13, 2008 - 11:42 ET by cocodrieIn 1988 before the Nov. election the msm said our economy was the worst in history. The day after Clinton was elected there were many articles saying how great the economy was. thanks for the bible references.
Media pawns
July 13, 2008 - 23:44 ET by needleBTW, I am promoting “media pawns” as a short and handy expression for “propoganda-fueled automatons”
Impunitas semper ad deteriora invitat.
Happy Sunday...
July 13, 2008 - 11:23 ET by Roger the ShrubberHappy birthday to:
Julius Ceasar (100bc)
Col. Hogan Crane (1928)
Jean Luc Gandalf Magneto Picard (1940)
Harrison Jones Ryan Solo (1942)
Happy death day to:
Jean-Paul Marat (1793), one of history's more notorious deaths...
Joachim Peiper (1973), assassinated by angry ex-French Resistance members (none who were named LaBeau!).
Oh, what sad times are these when passing ruffians can say `nee' at will to old ladies.
Open Thread Goodbye!
July 13, 2008 - 12:04 ET by cleverpigGoodbye NewsBusters!
I'm sure most of you have no idea who I am, and the few who do will be happy to see me go, but I wanted to say thanks for all of the great debates and knock-down-drag-out fights I've had here. I've enjoyed myself immensely, but it's time to get off the crack :)
This is an impressive community, and you all put up with my contrary opinions with remarkable patience. For my part, you've kept me honest in my arguments and made me look at many things I'd taken for granted with a newly critical eye. Don't tell my friends, but you even moved me to the right a little on a few issues. Shhh...
Anyway, thanks again, and remember:
If you're going to San Francisco, be sure to wear some flowers in your hair!
;)
Praytell, wherever are you
July 13, 2008 - 12:09 ET by DontFeedTheTrollsPraytell, wherever are you going that you can't access the web?
D
Keep the ILLEGALS out, join NumbersUSA to send free faxes to your reps.
Don't feed, maybe he's going to China
July 13, 2008 - 12:42 ET by jefflebowskiwhere they stifle good news about the west as much as the MSM.
"If you're going to San Francisco, be sure to wear condoms in your hair."
Jeff Lebowski
www.angrywhitedude.c...
Well clever I'm happy we
July 13, 2008 - 14:37 ET by BlazerWell clever I'm happy we managed to move you to the right on some issues, but I'm afraid if you dont' check back in regularly, it wont' take long for San Francisco to knock you so far to the left, you'd be off the map.
Anyway, good luck.
"You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy. We must be cautious. "
- Ben Kenobi on Liberals, and the MSM.
" The Cake is a lie."
shucks clever
July 13, 2008 - 12:21 ET by candanceI hope you're not leaving because of us. You were just starting to warm up and form better arguments.
Check back in any time you like - maybe we can move you to the right a little more!
Goodbye Cruel Newsbuster
July 13, 2008 - 12:41 ET by Jack BauerGoodbye Cruel Newsbuster world.
Damn, clever, and to think, I was starting to actually like you.
July 13, 2008 - 22:17 ET by R D Helm:-)
Addio!
The truth is insensitive. - Neal Boortz
Not happy to see you go.
July 14, 2008 - 10:02 ET by KarmaOf the liberals who post here, you are one of only a few I've developed a respect for. You displayed your contrary opinions with civility and thoughtfullness for the very large part. In my view, one of the worst things about liberals is their self-awarded superiority diplomas. This was absent in the postings of yours that I read.
Good luck, in kicking your addictions and in life in general.
San Francisco; I hope you enjoy an exclusive Summertime love-in there with your husband.
The Oldest Talking Point in the History of Talking Points
July 13, 2008 - 14:08 ET by third eyeObama surrogate Claire McCaskill, when questioned on the status of Iraq on MTP this morning, told Tom Brokaw that American troops should leave Iraq as soon as possible because she doesnt want us to be "mired in a civil conflict in Iraq."
She later went on to blame the poor ecomony on the strong dollar and hoped Ben Bernake would not "beat me for saying that, you know how angry he gets"
A friend sent me this email
July 13, 2008 - 15:05 ET by motherbeltA friend sent me this email that is going around...a good illustration of who loudly talks the talk and who quietly walks the walk...
A Tale of Two Houses
House #1:
A 20 room mansion (not including 8 bathrooms) heated by natural gas. Add on a pool (and a pool house) and a separate guest house, all heated by gas. In one month this residence consumes more energy than the average American household does in a year. The average bill for electricity and natural gas runs over $2400. In natural gas alone, this property consumes more than 20 times the national average for an American home. This house is not situated in a Northern or Midwestern "snow belt" area. It's in the South.
House #2:
Designed by an architecture professor at a leading national university. This house incorporates every "green" feature current home construction can provide. The house is 4,000 square feet (4 bedrooms) and is nestled on a high prairie in the American southwest. A central closet in the house holds geothermal heat-pumps drawing ground water through pipes sunk 300 feet into the ground.
The water (usually 67 degrees F.) heats the house in the winter and cools it in the summer. The system uses no fossil fuels such as oil or natural gas and it consumes one-quarter electricity required for a conventional heating/cooling system. Rainwater from the roof is collected and funneled into a 25,000 gallon underground cistern. Wastewater from showers, sinks and toilets goes into underground purifying tanks and then into the cistern. The collected water then irrigates the land surrounding the house. Surrounding flowers and shrubs native to the area enable the property to blend into the surrounding rural landscape.
~~~~~
HOUSE #1 is outside of Nashville , Tennessee ;
It is the abode of the "environmentalist" Al Gore.
HOUSE #2 is on a ranch near Crawford , Texas ;
It is the residence of the President of the United States , George W. Bush.
Shoot 'em all; let God sort 'em out! - Marge Simpson
mb...
July 13, 2008 - 15:10 ET by Clear thinkerI love it!
45 Communist Goals for America http://www.nationmakers.com/com_goals.htm
Not to mention the little
July 13, 2008 - 15:19 ET by BlazerNot to mention the little known fact that Al Gorge produces more flatulence in a yr. than a small herd of beef cattle.
"You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy. We must be cautious. "
- Ben Kenobi on Liberals, and the MSM.
" The Cake is a lie."
Forum Topics
July 13, 2008 - 19:17 ET by bigtimerMatthew, Noel, or anybody else....are all forum topics done now?
I see above where there is no space for forums...
I am very curious I know the religious ones are banned, just wondering if this is now going to include all topics?
I won't be here tomorrow for the most part and just very curious if I missed a decision about forums topics period.
thanks....
"America isn't the problem...America is the solution." ~ Rush Limbaugh
BT
July 13, 2008 - 22:06 ET by Noel SheppardBT,
I believe it's a technical problem associated with the new format. They'll be back. ns
Hey Noel... Thank you so
July 13, 2008 - 22:09 ET by bigtimerHey Noel...
Thank you so much.
"America isn't the problem...America is the solution." ~ Rush Limbaugh
A protest vote is an honorable action and your right, but...
July 13, 2008 - 21:22 ET by Parker1227...during the next four years humanity will likely face several critical, history making, choices. Either Barrack Obama or John McCain will be at the helm of the ship-of-state during this critical period.
I am convinced it would be disastrous to choose this moment in history to teach the republican party a lesson (about sticking to core values) by helping to put a neo-Marxist, Barrack Obama, in the oval office.
As bad as McCain is on some issues (like global warming, arctic drilling and immigration), he has shown a willingness to make fact-based changes in his POVs. Obama just says whatever to whomever to try to be all things to all people.
Which Obama will he be if elected - the nice centrist family man of recent weeks, or the radical left Chicago pol who broke bread with unrepentant terror bombers and racist Black-power advocates on his way to the top?
The dems are hoping that voters will be so disoriented by the bad economy and an unpopular war, that they will actually be able to sneak a radical leftist into the white house for the first time in U.S. history.
I don't think the American people can be this easily fooled, but if the dems actually pull it off, disgruntled conservatives will rue the day that they helped to make it happen.
I'm not going to rue any
July 13, 2008 - 21:28 ET by bigtimerI'm not going to rue any day as you are putting it here if I dare not to vote for McCain...
Oh heck, we'll all survive Parker...no mattter how we vote.
That is unless God calls us home.
"America isn't the problem...America is the solution." ~ Rush Limbaugh
BT
July 13, 2008 - 21:39 ET by botgi pray (yes to God) that you are correct.
I am taken by fear for your grandchildren what adding a liberal to the SCOTUS will do to the country they will have to live in.
In the End, God will Speak
If you think any
July 13, 2008 - 21:45 ET by bigtimerIf you think any conservative judge, even if McCain picked a real conservative, is going to get past the judiciary committee, let alone the Senate with McCain as President...
You are dreaming botg.
IMHO anyway...
I will not vote for this leftist RINO...
"America isn't the problem...America is the solution." ~ Rush Limbaugh
bt, have you noticed...
July 13, 2008 - 22:19 ET by Clear thinkerI no longer bad mouth McCain?
I'm still not going to vote for him, but I have decided to stay away from recruiting others to join me. If people want to vote for the Man in the Moon, I say have at it.
And for those of you that don't know me... NO, I will NOT be voting for the black guy with no experience. I never vote for Communists!
45 Communist Goals for America http://www.nationmakers.com/com_goals.htm
Ct... LOL... Of course
July 13, 2008 - 22:31 ET by bigtimerCt...
LOL...
Of course I have noticed, also I don't ever recall you attempting to recruit anyone to join you...I must of missed that...
I know I'm in the minority, that is fine with me, I also am not trying to get anyone to agree with me, I am just stating what and who I am...know what I mean?
I also don't appreciate pressure the other way around by others who say I may as well be voting for Obama ect...blah...blah...blah...
"America isn't the problem...America is the solution." ~ Rush Limbaugh
bt, that kind of pressure...
July 13, 2008 - 22:36 ET by Clear thinkerHas never, and never will cause me to suddenly change my mind. And I gotta admit, it sometimes pisses me off.
I don't make my decisions on a whim, so by the time I have made one, I pretty well know exactly my course of action.
Only a dummy would change their mind simply because someone tries to shame you into it.
45 Communist Goals for America http://www.nationmakers.com/com_goals.htm
BT
July 13, 2008 - 22:46 ET by botgoh i know i'm just hoping to limit the damage (not a McAmnesty fan myself)
and i know your position and don't expect you'll change
and yes i am dreaming but that's another story entirely---check pm
In the End, God will Speak
"If you think any
July 14, 2008 - 10:40 ET by ckc1227"If you think any conservative judge, even if McCain picked a real
conservative, is going to get past the judiciary committee, let alone
the Senate with McCain as President...
You are dreaming botg."
So the alternative is surrender? Sorry, but these arguments are illogical. No one says "You know, we have no shot to win the game tomorrow, so we're not even going to show up", or "We have little chance of saving your life, so we're going to give up now, send you home to die, and hope your death teaches researchers a lesson so that they magically create a cure."
It just makes no sense to me.
parker
July 13, 2008 - 21:47 ET by mandrake."..during the next four years humanity will likely face several critical, history making, choices. Either Barrack Obama or John McCain will be at the helm of the ship-of-state during this critical period."
Really? the USA is the "ship-of-state" of all humanity. You should get out and read what India, China and the EuroUnion have been up to.
"Which Obama will he be if
July 14, 2008 - 10:25 ET by ckc1227"Which Obama will he be if elected - the nice centrist family man of
recent weeks, or the radical left Chicago pol who broke bread with
unrepentant terror bombers and racist Black-power advocates on his way
to the top? "
He will be the Obama he has been most of his life.
"I am convinced it would be disastrous to choose this moment in history
to teach the republican party a lesson (about sticking to core values)
by helping to put a neo-Marxist, Barrack Obama, in the oval office. "
Especially when you aren't teaching them a lesson to begin with. The only ones who pay during such lesson teaching is us.
It doesn't matter what Bush
July 13, 2008 - 21:40 ET by SchnikeysIt doesn't matter what Bush does. McCain is such a crappy candidate that, even if he did know what to do or how to respond, he's done too much damage to recover from.
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"It could be the answer to our age-old, philosophical question, 'Why are we here?' PLASTIC!"
Here's some examples of
July 13, 2008 - 22:05 ET by zfHere's some examples of local MSM bias for anyone who is interested:
I pick up the Daytona Beach Journal (I live nearby) and one of the main stories is about our local power companies planning to build several nuclear reactors and plants. Good news right, it's not "foreign" oil and it's clean, but nope, all the paper wants to talk about is how this will raise electricity prices to fund these projects. The headline even read "Clean energy not cheap." And one person is stated as saying going green isn't cheap. Funny how this kind of talk when it comes to ethanol, wind and solar power never comes. Is it because to the left nuclear power is politically incorrect while other forms of 'alternative' fuels are their pet projects? Disgusting.
They also tried to tie in current fuel prices by saying this was add to the rising costs associated with the nuclear changover, which is nonsense. The majority of Florida power comes from coal not oil (which is the fuel whose price has gone up.) Or are liberals trying to claim coal prices have gone up too? Have coal mine profits reached "unfair" levels yet, crikey!
Not to mention how the savings in nuclear power will add up in the long run, unlike say those mercury-filled lightbulbs they foisted on us for the same reasons.
Add in a co-op about McCain will not "keep his promises like his predecessors", a headline saying the housing boom has gone bust (about three months after the fact, but I guess it makes for a scarier headline) and more claims of rising foreclosures in the county where I live (which I see no evidence of personally) using the controversial RealityTrace system of figuring that out I felt nigh disgusted.
I don't really care if this
July 13, 2008 - 22:55 ET by Cureboy675I don't really care if this benefits Obama or McCain. I would just really like to see more of our troops coming home. And also that they are treated honorably when they do.
well of course CB
July 13, 2008 - 22:59 ET by botgsome of us more than others, the troops also want to come home------when the job is done
In the End, God will Speak
cureboy...
July 13, 2008 - 23:01 ET by Clear thinkerI honestly don't think there are too many people out there that really cares who it benefits, as long as overall, it benefits our country.
Please pass along to your liberal friends to thank a soldier whenever they see one. I'm serious!
45 Communist Goals for America http://www.nationmakers.com/com_goals.htm
I do what I can when I can.
July 13, 2008 - 23:34 ET by Cureboy675I do what I can when I can. My next door neighbor, very nice guy, but obsessed with that damn hot rod car of his. Loud car! LOL But I digress...
He's in the air force and left on a very long mission, nearly a year. He could never tell me where he was going, so I don't know if it was Iraq or Afghanistan or someplace else. But ultimately it doesn't matter. Wherever he goes, he's serving his country. But while he was gone, I would shovel his sidewalks when I shovelled mine and I would mow his lawn when I mowed mine. But I didn't want to do it out of sympathy for his wife being alone. Because she is a very strong (emotionally and physically) woman. She's also very sweet, loves The Cure and she's a hell of an artist! But because I wanted to make their lives a little easier. I wanted to do it because, while I may not support a policy decision made by an administration, what our military does for us is extraordinary and should be appreciated.
I read about the Vietnam War and the so-called hippies and flower children who would spit on our soldiers, call them baby-killers. It turns my stomach. I will never understand how people could be that awful.