For general debate and discussion. Possible talking point: Could the auto industry burst the oil bubble?
- MERCEDES are aiming to end the need for filling your fuel tank with petrol or diesel within just SEVEN YEARS.
- For several months now rumors have been rampant about an electric vehicle that General Motors would unveil at the Detroit Auto Show. That vehicle is now real, in the form of the Chevrolet Volt. [Available in 2010]
- Toyota Motor isn't going to allow General Motors to steal a march on it in electric vehicles. The Japanese automaker announced plans at the North American International Auto Show in Detroit on Sunday to offer plug-in hybrid vehicles by 2010.
Electric cars are FINALLY going to be a reality. Shouldn't such a change in American and foreign driving habits alter fuel demand and pop this oil bubble? Will U.S. auto companies, currently facing huge financial problems, take the lead on this technology to win back market share? Might this conversion also be the tonic a soft economy needs to turn the corner just as the baby boomers are starting to retire?
Comments Policy
cars vandalized with anti obama slurs, see link
June 29, 2008 - 10:20 ET by lunaticcringeradiohttp://www.myfoxorla...
now obviously when the msm gets their teeth around this one they are going to overhype and portray this about how conservatives hate obama on all levels from race to politics, ooooo am i psychic or what, but i just have to pose a possible question. could some obama supporters have done this to garner sympathy and support for obama by staging a fake racist/anti obama "attack"? no nobody would ever do something like that.
lunaticcringeradio
NO
June 29, 2008 - 10:31 ET by ArchConservativeFuel consumption is down because of high prices yet the price remains the same. The car industry has nothing to do with it. It has to do with depending on other nations to drill for us. For prices to truly drop, we need strong and forceful leadership telling the world that we will drill our own oil and rely on ourselves.
Cars powered by electricity are not the answer. I don't want to drive around in a vehicle that is so thin and small that it won't survive a crash. I do NOT want to have to buy one of those extremely unsafe vehicles that are all over Europe like a plague. If you want to end your life, buy one of those.
Can we power planes, trains, semi-trucks, the Space Shuttle by electricty? Never. Think of how much of our lives are dependent on petrol-based products (plastics alone). I don't believe for a moment that McCain (D) will fight for drilling if/when he is elected, but that IS the answer.
Drill here. Drill now.
You support the troops by supporting the mission! If you don't support the mission, have the guts to say you don't support the troops.
ohhh never
June 29, 2008 - 10:36 ET by ArchConservativeBut we cannot say anything bad about the OsamaObamaMessiah because that would be "wrong". They are just good people trying to get their message out. Who cares if property is damaged and laws are broken. These are the same people who cheered when terrorists were given access to our courts and child rapists were given the reprieve from the death sentence. But their motives are good. (yea right)
luna,
June 29, 2008 - 10:36 ET by BlondeThe person or persons left a business card with political ramblings and other phrases such as ‘How ‘Bout them Gators’ and ‘Legalize Marijuana/ Stop Building Prisons’.
I confess, it was sarc & me....lol.
Seriously, only in Florida.
David Gregory, do you know which damn network you lie for? ~ Uncle Jimbo, @Blackfive
Drat.
June 29, 2008 - 12:35 ET by sarcasmoOur plot to gain universal non-Gator sympathy for the Gators has been exposed! Curses!!
Actually, I have a pretty good alibi if it happened this AM, but some might say that my alibi is horse doo-doo.
JMR
The tax & spend drug war looks racist in the real world.
Well, I outed us!
June 29, 2008 - 13:15 ET by BlondeAlas, I have no alibi.
Other than I do know how to spell "Bambi".
David Gregory, do you know which damn network you lie for? ~ Uncle Jimbo, @Blackfive
Hey sarc,
June 29, 2008 - 17:25 ET by BlondeThis story just got mentioned on Fox.
Seems there were also pro-Hillary "cards" left at the site....I believe that let's us off the hook. :D
David Gregory, do you know which damn network you lie for? ~ Uncle Jimbo, @Blackfive
hey blonde
June 29, 2008 - 21:26 ET by lunaticcringeradionext time you are out with you ski mask just please use a more red hue instead of blue. actually john deer green would be outstanding.
lunaticcringeradio
@lunaticcringeradio:
June 29, 2008 - 15:11 ET by j. frank wilsonWith no evidence of any kind - let alone any proof - you suggest this was done by pro-Obama supporters? The news report you cited states that Sen. Obama's name was not always spelled correctly. IF this were done by one or more of his supporters - and I believe that is very silly idea - it would not make any sense to not get the correct spelling of his name. Wouldn't that pretty much take the point out of it?
In my personal opinion your comment says far more about you than it does about the topic.
j. frank
June 29, 2008 - 15:21 ET by botgwhats with all this @ people stuff? do you really want to get in peoples faces? seems rude is all.
also what part of "pose a possible question. could" don't you understand? It's a hypothetical, i guess spell check does nothing for comprehension. Oh well, do continue to obsfucate.
Yes, you are even more annoying than Blonde. the EYE
botg the @ people stuff
June 29, 2008 - 20:48 ET by lunaticcringeradioit's a tool he likes to use that makes him feel intellectually superior, they probably told him to do that at the dailykos, but to the rest of us it shows how mentally deficient he is.
lunaticcringeradio
that may be LCR
June 29, 2008 - 20:58 ET by botgbut if he wants to get in my face, i'll be his huckleberry
Yes, you are even more annoying than Blonde. the EYE
i completely understand
June 29, 2008 - 21:19 ET by lunaticcringeradioi just think i have found a new special project when i'm not busy working hard for the lazy socialist non worker. just keep an eye out for new humor at @boys expense, because nothing is acceptable unless it gets his approval. big grin.
i no be uh opie & anthony pest for pickin my tows and speltin his name oboma.
lunaticcringeradio
botg, I agree.
June 29, 2008 - 21:02 ET by R D HelmAnnoying it has become.
But, then again, it is j. frank we are talking about here.
The truth is insensitive. - Neal Boortz
hey r d hows my old buddy neal boortz
June 29, 2008 - 21:15 ET by lunaticcringeradioit's been years since i've been back to atlanta. i miss the old days when i worked at wsb and i could drive home hearing the ole talkmaster.
lunaticcringeradio
luna-I'll just be glad when Neal comes back from vacation.
June 29, 2008 - 22:26 ET by R D HelmLOL-He has been gone a week, and the withdrawals are beginning to set in.
Don't mean to dis Herman Cain in any way, as I really like his show but dayem, Boortz is The Bomb! :-)
The truth is insensitive. - Neal Boortz
RD
June 29, 2008 - 22:30 ET by botgdid you post the video from Neal B of the guy with his halloween fireworks--can you spell magnesium? I'm still laughing
Yes, you are even more annoying than Blonde. the EYE
botg, LOL-Yes I did.
June 29, 2008 - 22:42 ET by R D HelmYou know, Neal has been warning us for years about the dangers of government schools. That vid pretty much proves he is on to something. :-)
The old Redneck Scrapbook just keeps growing and growing.
The truth is insensitive. - Neal Boortz
thanks again then
June 29, 2008 - 22:44 ET by botgYes, you are even more annoying than Blonde. the EYE
"IF this were done by one
June 29, 2008 - 18:43 ET by ckc1227"With no evidence of any kind - let alone any proof - you suggest this was done by pro-Obama supporters? "
Actually, I think what he/she did was ask if it was possible.
"IF this were done by one or more of his supporters - and I believe that
is very silly idea - it would not make any sense to not get the correct
spelling of his name."
Sure, but vandalizing cars makes perfect sense, lol.
"Wouldn't that pretty much take the point out of it?"
Apparently not, since everyone knows who they were targetting despite the misspelling. By the way, if you wanted to portray the vandals as ignorant, redneck Republicans, misspelling Obama's name makes perfect sense.
That you dismiss the possibility outright says more about you than the issue at hand.
thank you j frank wilson for your weak insult, i'm proud of you
June 29, 2008 - 19:28 ET by lunaticcringeradioyou want to try and get me again, go ahead, try.
i contest that the mispelling of obamas name was done by obama supporting liberals who think conservatives are stooopid. just like your pseudo higher intellectual i know more than you post says about your you, thank you for supporting my theory even more. liberals love to act like they are smarter than conservatives, but put to the test, an act doesn't play out in real life.
fyi frank, just because you're probably not smart enough to catch on to this, i spell stooopid with 3 os as the way bugs bunny use to say it.
now go back to democraticunderground.com to brag about how you think you got a conservative and get your next marching orders, but the great thing is this site(NB) wont ban you for your dissenting comments like that super-liberal, ultra-tollerant, mega-understanding, grand-caring democraticunderground website does to anyone who doesn't worship at the alter of universal socialism.
lunaticcringeradio
lunatic... Good luck
June 29, 2008 - 19:36 ET by Clear thinkerlunatic...
Good luck getting any respect out of j. frank wilson. I promised Matthew that I would not call j. frank wilson an as*hole, so I'm going to keep my word and not do it. But feel free to do it yourself.
45 Communist Goals for America http://www.nationmakers.com/com_goals.htm
i don't need his respect, don't want, could care less
June 29, 2008 - 20:44 ET by lunaticcringeradioi just love to piss off socialist liberals.
i find it funny how he criticizes me for doing exactly what the msm does every minute of the day. funny how the msm is never called out for all it's loose connections and conjecture yet he's got his panties in a wad because i posed a question in the same style of conjecture and loose connections that the msm makes. all i did was suggested that it was possibly a staged scene to garner attention for obama. oh his hypocrisy is sweet and tasty. he fell right into my trap. but i just a dummy servative dat spell it oboma. hahahahaha
remember a socialist liberal doesn't actually achieve anything productive in society all they can do is squash an inventive entrepreneuring conservative and take it from them by force of big government.
by the way thanks for the support clear thinker
lunaticcringeradio
No problemo! 45 Communist
June 29, 2008 - 20:51 ET by Clear thinkerNo problemo!
45 Communist Goals for America http://www.nationmakers.com/com_goals.htm
J Frank, if Obamas name was spelled wrong
June 29, 2008 - 19:45 ET by jefflebowskithis is irrefutable evidence that it must have been members of the mouth-breathing, unwashed left! Hell, it may have been Tawana Brawley herself!
Jeff Lebowski
www.angrywhitedude.c...
Off topic here, just musing
June 29, 2008 - 10:23 ET by DontFeedTheTrollsOff topic here, just musing what the headlines would read if Obama goes down in defeat (which I think will NOT happen). There will be no simple "McCain Wins" headlines but perhaps the following will be seen:
Obama Loses: Nation Mourns
Obama Loses: Massive Fraud Declared
Obama Loses: Voters Weep
Obama Loses: Nation Stunned
Obama Loses: Nation Braces For Riots
Obama Loses: Pundits Declare Freedom Dead
You get the drift.
D
Keep the ILLEGALS out, join NumbersUSA to send free faxes to your reps.
→ Never happen
June 29, 2008 - 10:37 ET by Cool ArrowThis election could easily lead one to believe in all the Trilateralist, Freemason, Illuminati, Bildeberger conspiracies. No other Republcan candidate could exude less optimism and vision than Juan McAnus.
Handsome Stranger -vs- Casper the Ghost
One of is a real Democrat while the other just plays one on TV.
LYDSEXICS UNTIE
the media will never report obama loses
June 29, 2008 - 11:56 ET by lunaticcringeradioit would read
"conservatives steal victory from obama"
"republicans steal win"
whatever it would be a derogatory hit at conservatives, in no way would the media admit obama lost.
lunaticcringeradio
On the day after the
June 29, 2008 - 12:12 ET by FoolicanOn the day after the election results are in and McCain is declared victor, the newspaper headlines will read:
"Obama campaign: Obama claims moral victory, will run again in 2012"
"Jackson: Racism played major role in election results"
"National unemployment rate highest in six years"
"Late October 2008 the second bloodiest month in Iraq"
On the other hand, if he wins...
"Obama campaign: Obama will return home to celebrate victory"
"Jackson: Election process unusually fair and commendable"
"Financial experts report six straight months of steady economic growth"
"Iran: We will help America in Iraq"
Some corrections needed
June 29, 2008 - 12:19 ET by NL207Some corrections needed here: The MSM do very little overt lying, but taint virtually everything they report.
"Obama campaign: Obama prepares to return the Government to the people"
"Jackson: Election process unusually fair and commendable"
"Economists: Three years of uninterrrupted growth heralds unfolding prosperity "
"Iran: We will work with Pres Elect-Obama to relieve America's burden in Iraq"
"Electric cars are FINALLY
June 29, 2008 - 10:29 ET by LighthouseJ"Electric cars are FINALLY going to be a reality."
Funny statement considering they were a reality about 10 years ago. GM killed their electric car because they'd lose out on the money from maintaining a gasoline engine.
Who Killed the Electric Car?
For those interested, the director of the documentary has revealed a sequel is in the works called "Who Saved the Electric Car?"
"Boats are safe in the harbor, but that's not what they're made for." -- Maritime quote
So...
June 29, 2008 - 10:37 ET by ontheright...the electric cars that GM/FORD/Others have been "sitting on" for years will save the planet and reduce oil dependence?
That's interesting...so what about the airlines, shipping companies, trucking companies, farmers?
When are we going to see electric airplanes, ships, trucks and/or tractors?????
Only fools would believe that oil will be displaced as the primary source of fuel that drives the global economy, now and well into the future...only fools.
What are you talking
June 29, 2008 - 12:54 ET by LighthouseJWhat are you talking about?
I'm saying electric vehicles aren't a new concept.
"Boats are safe in the harbor, but that's not what they're made for." -- Maritime quote
The power of markets
June 29, 2008 - 18:05 ET by UnsaneYeah, the electric car was "killed" by evil corporate conspiracies. The fact that there is no market for cars that are ONLY useful for commuting and don't have any power to spare for such things as air conditioning had absolutely nothing to do with it I am sure....
Res tantum valet quantum vendi potest.
LighthouseJ, just wait until everybody gets home from work....
June 29, 2008 - 21:08 ET by R D Helm...and plugs in.
Power grids will be blowing out all across the country.
The truth is insensitive. - Neal Boortz
OsamaObama is an idiot: drilling IS the answer
June 29, 2008 - 10:34 ET by ArchConservativeFuel consumption is down because of high prices yet the price remains
the same. The car industry has nothing to do with it. It has to do with
depending on other nations to drill for us. For prices to truly drop,
we need strong and forceful leadership telling the world that we will
drill our own oil and rely on ourselves.
Cars powered by electricity are not the answer. I don't want to drive
around in a vehicle that is so thin and small that it won't survive a
crash. I do NOT want to have to buy one of those extremely unsafe
vehicles that are all over Europe like a plague. If you want to end
your life, buy one of those.
Can we power planes, trains, semi-trucks, the Space Shuttle by
electricty? Never. Think of how much of our lives are dependent on
petrol-based products (plastics alone). I don't believe for a moment
that McCain (D) will fight for drilling if/when he is elected, but that
IS the answer.
Drill here. Drill now.
You support the troops by supporting the mission! If you don't
support the mission, have the guts to say you don't support the troops.
This reminds me of the late 70s
June 29, 2008 - 18:40 ET by Seabeach4348We had another "energy crisis" back then, and people panicked and got rid of their older cars for newer, smaller, lighter, and more fuel-efficient cars.
Trouble is, if you got into an accident in one of those crappy little things (even with a vehicle of similar weight) you were as good as dead or at least seriously injured.
I recall that later (1980s) the radical environmental left and their well-meaning but empty-headed liberal friends in comsumer groups started a movement to "ban" (of course) all large and heavy vehicles because these did a number on the smaller vehicles in a collision. It was "for the children", and it was to even the playing field as liberals like to do: either both drivers live or both die, but no-fair that the person driving the larger vehicle is better protected, especially if the person driving the smaller car is a minority. Makes sense, huh?
So now, once again, they want us to all drive little tin boxes on roller skates with electric motors or hybrid vehicles, all in the name of solving the gas price crisis and saving the planet by reducing "greenhouse gas emissions". (which, of course, is baloney sliced really thick)
Sorry, but I'll keep my truck with some modicum of protection. If I get hit by a drunk driver, hopefully that driver will die and not me.
Physics and other trivia
June 29, 2008 - 10:48 ET by Cool ArrowI'm no scientist, but doesn't all that electricity have to come from somewhere?
Let's ask Obama:
LYDSEXICS UNTIE
Maybe McCain's "Dr. No" ad
June 29, 2008 - 10:56 ET by Blondehas alot of merit.
I thought it was funny.
Speaking of Obama, here's a little story about the suck-up and Clinton double-crosser, Bill Richardson in Palm Beach, home of the butterfly ballot (hey, at least he's not shilling for Obama here in Broward county).
David Gregory, do you know which damn network you lie for? ~ Uncle Jimbo, @Blackfive
→ Say what? Billy
June 29, 2008 - 11:04 ET by Cool ArrowRichardson said Obama could win the coveted Cuban-American vote in Florida, saying Obama's goal of lifting the 45-year-old embargo while working toward democracy in Cuba
He really is a master when it comes to reading the pulse of ethnic groups isn't he? I'll bet all that talk about the second coming of JFK sets well with Cuban-Americans too.
LYDSEXICS UNTIE
McCain's people only need
June 29, 2008 - 11:10 ET by NL207McCain's people only need remind those folks who it was that brought them the Elian Gonzalez raid. It wouldn't hurt the rest of the population to recall these events either. This image ought to do it. Obama is a fake and will pursue the standard Dem policies towards Cuba.
Riiiiight....
June 29, 2008 - 11:19 ET by BlondeAnd there were no guns pointed during that raid, either.
One of the saddest things I've ever seen is the pathetic cobbled-together "boats" that the Cubans risk their lives in to escape the glorious communist paradise. They have a few at Fort Jefferson in the Dry Tortugas. The Cuban refugees actually aim for the Tortugas, once they land, they are well treated and given immediate asylum.
David Gregory, do you know which damn network you lie for? ~ Uncle Jimbo, @Blackfive
I liked the guy who
June 29, 2008 - 11:23 ET by NL207I liked the guy who converted an antique 1951 pickup truck into a boat! Persistent and innovative to say the least.
I thought Cuban-Americans
June 29, 2008 - 15:23 ET by motherbeltI thought Cuban-Americans didn't want the US making nice with Castro (both of them)...am I mistaken?
Shoot 'em all; let God sort 'em out! - Marge Simpson
To paraphrase a famous
June 29, 2008 - 10:57 ET by NL207To paraphrase a famous movie,
"If Obama were here, he'd power all those electric cars with lightning bolts from his arse."
I was thinking the same thing...
June 29, 2008 - 11:56 ET by jgarciaIt is too bad that the “greenies” can’t think past breakfast…… Electric cars are another great idea that can be apart of the future but, you are right, when they become popular they will demand a lot future resources……..but of course that isn’t the "greenies" problem! Here is another example of the far left media/special interest groups showing/shoving their own agendas down our throats with out a thought for the "future" and the consequences of their actions. Drilling here will help us in 5-10 years (maybe even lower the oil per barrel sooner based on speculation). It would at least buy us time to start planning for our children's future energy needs. These "people" have great ideas for saving the planet, too bad they don't have a realistic plan to get us from point A to point D...... Point B & C is what they forget about, not everyone can dump their gasoline running cars to buy a new "car", we can't just go back to candle light and farming.... just isn't going to happen. There is a middle ground... just getting everyone on board the same boat is the biggest problem...
Obama doesn't think we can
June 29, 2008 - 15:28 ET by motherbeltObama doesn't think we can drill our way out of this, but he thinks we can "mandate" our way out of it.
He says drilling more won't show results for five years.
But apparently the higher CAFE standards that he proposes instead will show results next week.
Shoot 'em all; let God sort 'em out! - Marge Simpson
----
June 29, 2008 - 15:49 ET by dahliatraversGreat point, MB.
Of course, the best way to drastically reduce CO2 would be for everyone to simply stay home from work. Park the cars; leave the public buses in their garages; don't crank up the subway trains.
Oh, wait. Someone pointed out on another comment thread that the greatest source of man's greenhouse gasses is cows. So we would also have to outlaw hamburgers, steaks and all dairy products. [Sorry to all those children who are now going to get rickets but you can't make a global cooling omelet without breaking some eggs.]
There. Problem solved.
This is great news
June 29, 2008 - 10:59 ET by shawn228The sooner we can wean ourselves off gas the better. We can tell the Saudis where to stick their oil
Shawn what are you using for
June 29, 2008 - 11:01 ET by NL207Shawn what are you using for brains here? Can't you recognize a scam when you see one?
NL
June 29, 2008 - 11:24 ET by shawn228Sorry NL, you have to enlighten me, what scam am I seeing here? GM has developed a car that basically just runs on electricity. It is not perfected yet, but i'm hoping to wean ourselves off oil. What is your beef?
Where is all this
June 29, 2008 - 11:29 ET by NL207Where is all this electricity going to come from? From a wall outlet?
Liberals think heat comes from a furnace, food comes from a grocery store and electricity comes from a plug. Liberals of various stripes invariably oppose the construction of electrical generation and transmission facilities regardless of type and location. Obama and his stooges are among this lot.
It should be obvious electric cars are uneconomical BS, just like biofuels, being spread about by statist morons like Obama to deceive ignorant people into thinking he has some grand solution to all our problems.
NL
June 29, 2008 - 11:40 ET by shawn228The technology is not perfected yet, but if they can somehow come up with a battery that can go 300+ miles on one charge, that would be fantastic.
If even a quarter of the cars were run on electricity, it will decrease demand for oil in a big way. Oil is 142 dollars a barrell and Saudis have the rest of the world by the b*lls, it sounds like your okay with that.
"The technology is not
June 29, 2008 - 12:04 ET by NL207"The technology is not perfected yet" Translation for the ignorant and gullible: There is no actual solution presently in hand. This product does not exist and there is a chance it may never exist in any economical form.
You still have not produced any actual power source for your electric cars. Batteries have to be charged and recharged. How are you going to do this? Until you solve this problem in some economical way you are still blowing smoke up everybody's arse.
And it is still Bulls**t.
And you are what was commonly know by Phineas Taylor Barnum as a sucker.
shawn you need a lesson in elementary physics...
June 29, 2008 - 12:51 ET by larry on LIto believe you can achieve 300 miles in a 'coventional battery powered vehicle' ,without a 300 mile long extension cord.without going into the math ,check the the number of amp/hours listed on the battery in your personal vehicle and its engine horsepower. to just get an idea of the size and weight of the battery that would be required to achive the stated goal you have to calculate the requirements by utilizing 746watts =1hp which @ 12volts =62.2 amps.using the amp/hr rating of you own vehicles battery you can get a good idea on the size and amperage rating of the battery required. oh,you also would have to consider the additional weight of the battery [huge]in order to calculate your true mileage. you then might want to consider the 300 mile extension cord .
Shawn, www.teslamotors.com
June 29, 2008 - 14:46 ET by dscottShawn, www.teslamotors.com their batteries will go for 300 miles.
However, NL has a point on where the electricity will be produced and the end result will be a 5 fold increase in your electric bill, that's IF we don't immediately begin building nuclear and coal power plants. I have written about this:
http://conservablogs...
Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid, starving the poor one gallon of ethanol at a time. Fill your tank with E85 and cull a village.
----
June 29, 2008 - 15:50 ET by dahliatraversWhere is all this electricity going to come from? From a wall outlet?
lol
→ Electric cars
June 29, 2008 - 11:39 ET by Cool ArrowShawn, the scam is that people believe the increased demand on the power grid is somehow so minimal that it deserves no mention.
Let's all go home at 5:00 PM and see what happens when we all simultaneously plug in our cars, our home thermostats, and cook dinner.
A bit of advice. Invest in electrical utilities early and often.
The energy necessary to service the power grid has to come from somewhere. And all of the effective methods are currently contraindicated by environmentalists.
And that means protracted lawsuits for any new plants.
LYDSEXICS UNTIE
Hmm...
June 29, 2008 - 11:45 ET by FoolicanYou've obviously never heard of an "electric tree."
Electricity does grow on trees...
→ Electric trees
June 29, 2008 - 11:53 ET by Cool ArrowHow silly of me. Of course.
In fact, one sprouts up in my living room every year sometime after Thanksgiving.
Maybe we could harness the power of Christmas!
LYDSEXICS UNTIE
You have a point CA
June 29, 2008 - 11:47 ET by shawn228Like I was telling NL earlier, if they can somehow make a battery than can keep a charge for a while the demand will not be quite as high.
I don't think everyone will buy an electric car, but if we can even replace a few gas run vehicles with electric ones, the demand for oil will go way down and price for oil will go down a well.
Is it oil or oil?
June 29, 2008 - 11:52 ET by FoolicanShawn, the electric car strategy holds some merit. No longer are we simply drawing from oil power for our cars - now we are drawing from oil, nuclear, solar, wind, etc. etc.. Quite a versatile source of energy.
HOWEVER...
We are STILL drawing from oil. And if we're going to swear off oil for good, we still need to find a replacement energy source to keep those power plants in motion. Are we going to take the big step to hydrogen fuel cells or to nuclear fission/fusion? If we cannot utilize a bit of foresight, we might get power gridlock, similar to those seen in California in 2003-2004.
→ Hydrogen
June 29, 2008 - 11:59 ET by Cool ArrowBut doesn't it take a lot of electricity to separate the Oxygen molecule from the Hydrogen molecules?
I know there's some talk of finding the right sea creature that excretes Hydrogen, but I don't think they've found it yet.
All the loose Hydrogen molecules on this planet are busy looking for a free Oxygen to hook up with.
LYDSEXICS UNTIE
Oops.
June 29, 2008 - 14:31 ET by FoolicanI know there's some talk of finding the right sea creature that excretes Hydrogen, but I don't think they've found it yet.
Not a good idea. Once Big Hydrogen starts capitalizing on the hydro electricity market, environmentalists who supported the concept in the first place will parade up and down the streets with picket signs reading "Free the Volfish". Hundreds of Hollywood movies lamenting on the plight of the overworked, underappreciated fish will be rushed to production. They'll be screaming for us to go back to non-invasive, harmless crude oil power.
Waitaminute!!!
You weren't telling me
June 29, 2008 - 12:07 ET by NL207You weren't telling me anything. You were demonstrating that you, yourself, are a victim of wishful thinking, which is all this electric car nonsense is at the present time.
→ Curious Shawn
June 29, 2008 - 11:06 ET by Cool ArrowWould that make you a weaner or a weanee?
LYDSEXICS UNTIE
→ Sorry Shawn
June 29, 2008 - 11:07 ET by Cool ArrowSometimes I just can't help it.
LYDSEXICS UNTIE
No probem CA :-)
June 29, 2008 - 11:20 ET by shawn228I have a good sense of humor. There is a diffence when someone is having fun or blatant namecalling.
To answer your question about wieners, umm...forget it, I don't want to get in trouble again.
→ Great Idea
June 29, 2008 - 11:26 ET by Cool ArrowWe can refer to electric cars as "weanermobiles". That name isn't taken, is it?
LYDSEXICS UNTIE
I think it has CA
June 29, 2008 - 11:35 ET by shawn228Not the same spelling, but you still might get in trouble for patent infringment.
I agree with you, this is
June 29, 2008 - 12:17 ET by jgarciaI agree with you, this is great news........ To me, this means they (those smarter than I) can also come up with "affordable" technology to convert my SUV/cars into hybrids... This would help ease the gasoline demands and help those of us who can't run out and buy a new car!
Another sucker who thinks
June 29, 2008 - 12:22 ET by NL207Another sucker who thinks electricity comes from a wall outlet and hybrid fuel systems can be made as affordable as single fuel internal combustion systems.
→ NL
June 29, 2008 - 12:28 ET by Cool ArrowIt's not as though the media has bothered to map out the inefficiencies of fuel (A) to fuel (B) conversion.
Physics experts seem extremely silent on this topic.
LYDSEXICS UNTIE
They are silent
June 29, 2008 - 12:41 ET by NL207They are silent for several reasons: The second law of thermodynamics for one. Secondary power sources can never be as efficient as a primary power source. If the secondary source, in this case, electricity, is derived from the primary, combustion of carbon, it can never be as efficient as carbon--> oil, gas, coal. Were it otherwise, it would be possible to build a perpetual motion machine or a time machine.
They are silent becasue to provide a hybrid fuel system means provided two independent utilization paths. Until the second path can be produced for $0 incremental cost over the first, the hybrid system will always be more expensive than the single system to aquire. To break even, the hybrid system, including all operational lifetime costs such as batteriy replacement and disposal, must have a fuel efficiency sufficiently greater than the single fuel system to repay the higher initial and operational costs. So far, nobody has achieved this goal.
→ Thank you NL
June 29, 2008 - 12:53 ET by Cool ArrowAs you can tell from my posts I knew there are efficiency losses in producing one fuel from another, but I couldn't give it a Physics term because like so many in my generation, I took the easy classes.
Your explanation, though intuitive to some (me) and understood by others (you) is not something that is explained clearly to the populace at large.
Obama can say "OK, let's go electric" and most people are awed by his wisdom. But if one looks closely enough the idea is equivalent to "Let them eat cake".
LYDSEXICS UNTIE
I did not take the soft
June 29, 2008 - 17:21 ET by NL207I did not take the soft curriculum. My undergraduate degree was a BS Physics with a Minor in Mathematics, both cum Laude.
Did I miss something between the lines?
June 29, 2008 - 13:07 ET by jgarciaI was agreeing on ONE point. How am I a sucker for wanting to get more gas mileage out of my SUV or having other "affordable" options to choice from? So far, I can’t find a car part or micro chip to make my SUV current gas mileage go up. Now, there are conversation kits out there for E85 and hybrid (the current hybrids kits, I can’t afford for few reasons if you need me to I will explain in another post )…….. So, my choices are limited at this moment....... now, lets go back to the hybrid kits, I don't need a "wall outlet" for a hybrid, those are called Plug-Ins and I am not on board with those... for the very reason you pointed out to me….. =)~
→ E85 is a red herring
June 29, 2008 - 13:18 ET by Cool ArrowActually, a red herring is a fish used in the training of fox hunting dogs.
But E85 is nothing more than swapping a more efficient fuel for a less efficient fuel.
At some level of subsidy ethanol is competitive, but if it were produced strictly with the burning of itself, it would not be even considered.
How many of those tractors out in the cornfields are running on E85? How much fertilizer is produced and hauled using E85?
If one disregards everything except the distillation, you're gonna get something, but add in all the "little incidentals" and you're burning about as much energy to produce what you get.
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E85 / bio waste
June 29, 2008 - 13:59 ET by jgarciaI know someone who runs her “upscale” foreign car on bio hazard waste (left over food products (fruits...) that she distills in her backyard)….. She is running I think 40/60…… however, I am not sure it would be a good idea for everyone to have a “moonshine” still in there back yard……. lol
→ Leftovers?
June 29, 2008 - 14:13 ET by Cool ArrowGiven that the amount of corn it takes to fill up an SUV gas tank just once could feed one human being for a year, I suspect your friend is either extremely wasteful with her leftovers or imagines most of her trips.
I hear mushrooms yield a lot of horsepower in that respect.
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hard crowd here.....
June 29, 2008 - 14:55 ET by jgarciaMy friend happens to live near a place that makes jelly... for a small fee (gas to get there and storage containers) she can pick up said "leftovers"/bio waste...... however, there isn’t not enough to go around, so I didn’t mention where said “leftovers” came from.. I never mention corn or real wasting of food....... I do believe my post mentions Bio-Waste..... Now the mushrooms…… I would go there, but with this crowd today I will pass on this….. not in the mood to defend everything I say today…geezzzzzzzz
Shawn, people have been
June 29, 2008 - 14:44 ET by Indiana JoeShawn, people have been saying this for over 20 years. And we already had a "great electric hope" about that long ago. Initially the Impact, then the EV1, it was pretty much a dismal, highly expensive failure. Electric may be an alternative, but it's never going to be a cure-all.
The way to "tell the Saudis where to stick their oil" is to drill our own, and compete with them on the world market.
@Indiana Joe:
June 29, 2008 - 15:03 ET by j. frank wilsonHave you seen the movie "Who Killed the Electric Car?" Why did GM abandon this program? Particularly in the years since GM has hardly established itself as a well-managed, profitable company...