For general discussion and debate. Possible talking point: are higher energy prices making life in the suburbs unaffordable?
Suddenly, the economics of American suburban life are under assault as skyrocketing energy prices inflate the costs of reaching, heating and cooling homes on the outer edges of metropolitan areas...As the realization takes hold that rising energy prices are less a momentary blip than a restructuring with lasting consequences, the high cost of fuel is threatening to slow the decades-old migration away from cities, while exacerbating the housing downturn by diminishing the appeal of larger homes set far from urban jobs.
Is this a real problem, or an exaggeration? Will commuters rethink this equation and start moving closer to cities to save on gas? Or will they simply adjust by purchasing more fuel-efficient cars or taking mass transit?
Editor at Large
Comments Policy
huge problem
June 25, 2008 - 09:04 ET by shawn228Even driving a Honda Accord can cost $300 a month if you commute 50 miles both ways.
Public transit is not always an option, because there might be no bus that goes to your location, there is no exaggeration at all, high fuel prices are effecting us big time.
Comon shawn suck it up, get
June 25, 2008 - 09:06 ET by Dan The Man 2Comon shawn suck it up, get a differnt car that does 50 MPG or carpool or go electric.
Nuke em til they glow then shoot em in the dark.
dan
June 25, 2008 - 09:41 ET by shawn228I love both my cars too much to give them up. Fortunately, my wife and I can afford the cost, but many others cannot. They are not gas guzlers either, both are V6s engines. One of them gets 21 mpg and 29 on the freeway.
Fortunately, my wife and I
June 25, 2008 - 09:53 ET by dvdaughtryFortunately, my wife and I can afford the cost, but many others cannot.
You are right, gas is still affordable for most of the population that drive.
You trying to say Jesus Christ can't hit a curveball?
"You trying to say Jesus
June 25, 2008 - 09:58 ET by shawn228"You trying to say Jesus Christ can't hit a curveball?"
huh?
Shawn,
June 25, 2008 - 10:59 ET by RESTLESS 1That's his tag line, not a question to you.
"This
liberal would be all about socialize -- uh, uh, would be about
basically taking over and the government running all of your companies."-Maxine Waters 2008
Shawn228: ...but many
June 25, 2008 - 10:22 ET by futbolisgreat1Shawn228: ...but many others cannot.
Futbol: Care to cite your source that many others cannot?! and please do not give me left wing media sources.
If you and your wife can afford it, why can't others?
You seem to be making, just like the Liberal media, a huge, huge assumption.
Why are Liberals so easily manipulated by today's yellow journalism, why?
why are Liberals always so willing to believe that everything is going down the tubes?
I have never understood the doom and gloom mentality of Liberals. Not to mention, the making up of "facts".
Opportunity cost
June 26, 2008 - 03:05 ET by Unsane"...but many others cannot." Well, they can do what I do, and millions of others: budget and prioritize their spending!
Ever heard of the economic concept of opportunity cost?
Res tantum valet quantum vendi potest.
VW diesel will save you
June 25, 2008 - 09:15 ET by bassndudeVW diesel will save you money. Buy one. You will belch more smoke, but you will save 100 bucks a month.
Save a SeAL, club a liberal!!
Diesel is the most
June 25, 2008 - 09:18 ET by motherbeltDiesel is the most expensive gas....does the VWD get mileage good enough to make up for that?
Shoot 'em all; let God sort 'em out! - Marge Simpson
Diesel burns hotter and you
June 25, 2008 - 09:24 ET by bassndudeDiesel burns hotter and you get more milage from a diesel than from conventional gas. More power to. That is why the 18 wheelers use diesel.
Save a SeAL, club a liberal!!
Sort of?
June 25, 2008 - 09:47 ET by general companydoes the VWD get mileage good enough to make up for that?
My buddy has a VW wagon about 5yrs old or so, he said it gets about 45mpg. VW quit selling these here (in the US) shortly after he bought his, because of the new clean diesel laws. They are back now and we were thinking about buying one of the new models, but diesel prices are even harder to exsplain then gas? Who knows what is going on with that.
"Television is a freak show" Bernie Goldberg
→ General
June 25, 2008 - 09:52 ET by Cool ArrowSeems Europe got more invested in diesel years ago. All big rigs worldwide and European cars drive the price of diesel.
LYDSEXICS UNTIE
Diesel has a higher BTU rating compared to Gasoline
June 25, 2008 - 11:56 ET by PopularTechDiesel Energy Content (U.S Department of Energy)
Diesel = 130,000 BTUs, Gasoline = 125,000 BTUs (per gallon)
You also can get ridiculous fuel economy:
The Case for Diesel: Clean, Efficient, Fast Cars (Hybrids Beware!) (Popular Mechanics)
50-MPG: 2009 Volkswagen Jetta TDi Clean Diesel (Popular Mechanics)
70-MPG: Volkswagen’s Polo TDi Clean-Diesel May Head Stateside (Popular Mechanics)
99-MPG: No Chance For American Volkswagen Lupo TDi Diesel (The Car Connection)
235-MPG: Volkswagen 1-litre car: Thin Car Travels Far (Popular Science)
The Anti 'Man-Made' Global Warming Resource
I had a VW diesel once. The
June 25, 2008 - 14:49 ET by ckc1227I had a VW diesel once. The mpg was awesome, but the car had no acceleration. I hated it. Not because I'm a gearhead, but because often you find yourself in traffic situations that require decent acceleration, especially when entering into traffic. Had that car less than 6 months.
Get a more fuel-efficient car
June 25, 2008 - 12:02 ET by PopularTechThe most fuel-efficient Cars (Consumer Reports)
The most fuel-efficient SUVs (Consumer Reports)
Honda Fit - 43 MPG Highway
Toyota Yaris - 44 MPG Highway
The Anti 'Man-Made' Global Warming Resource
I checked the list because
June 25, 2008 - 12:39 ET by motherbeltI checked the list because I just bought a new Nissan Rogue, 4 cyl. with AWD. They say 17 city; I am routinely getting 23 with all city driving. Don't know what conditions they were driving in.
Shoot 'em all; let God sort 'em out! - Marge Simpson
MPG can vary by city
June 25, 2008 - 20:04 ET by PopularTechThe 17 MPG is obviously going to be different per city but CR did get an average of 22 MPG.
The Anti 'Man-Made' Global Warming Resource
"Even driving a Honda
June 25, 2008 - 14:38 ET by ckc1227"Even driving a Honda Accord can cost $300 a month if you commute 50 miles both ways. Public transit is not always an option, because there might be no bus
that goes to your location, there is no exaggeration at all, high fuel
prices are effecting us big time."
Most people don't commute 100 miles daily to work. The average is 32 miles. That same Honda Accord would only cost $106/month for gas for work, and $208 a month for work and pleasure on average at $4.00 a gallon. That means it was $104 a month when gas was $2.00 a gallon. That means their monthly gas bill has increased $100 over 4 years.
For those who do commute 100 miles, I'm sure they could make cuts in their budget to cover the increase in gas costs. So could most everyone else. It took me 30 seconds to come up with $200 I could cut, and that's without even digging down into where my money goes each month.
High fuel costs are affecting us, but other countries have been dealing with them for years, yet somehow manage to survive. Being one of the richest countries in the world, I think we can too.
"Get a more fuel-efficient car"
Not necessarily a sound idea. If someone can't afford $300 in gas, how are they going to afford a $300 car payment plus gas? If they can afford a new car, then gas isn't as big a deal as they make it out to be.
If someone is already in the market for a new car, no problem. But I wouldn't go out and buy a new car just to get better gas mileage. In fact, I'm not going to. My car gets 15 mpg, but it's paid for. I'm going to drive that sucker until it quits. It has 190,000 miles on it right now, and I'm hoping it lasts another 190,000.
I live 25 miles from where
June 25, 2008 - 09:04 ET by Dan The Man 2I live 25 miles from where I work and dont see moving anytime soon. As with any time as in history people with do what they feel is needed. If I was renting I would move right across from where I work, just because I dont want to spend 30 minutes to an hour on the freeway each way.
I seem to remmeber about 20 years ago there was this same big expected move top urban areas and for a while it seemed there was a push to do so. My persoanl feeling is for families the only solution is to be in suburbs. Of course in Dallas we still have land available and housing and development is booming.
In three years Im giving up my house and becoming a vagabond of teh road anyways, taht is is fuel prices dont skyrocket. And even then I have some ideas for alternative fuels to cut costs.
Nuke em til they glow then shoot em in the dark.
pick your poison
June 25, 2008 - 09:04 ET by dvdaughtryGas or property tax.
What do families like my wife and I do? She works close to our house, and I work about 25 miles from my job.
I say, get over it and cut the cable.
You trying to say Jesus Christ can't hit a curveball?
Those kids should have jobs
June 25, 2008 - 09:09 ET by Dan The Man 2Those kids should have jobs so they can get the cable. Actually it looks like the cutting cable stimulated them to think and be creative and getting exercise to boot; a win win situation all around.
Nuke em til they glow then shoot em in the dark.
At first I was mad at the
June 25, 2008 - 09:13 ET by dvdaughtryAt first I was mad at the article, and though "those two should be glad they live in America, where they can do that".
Then it hit me: it just goes to show that a bad day in the US beats a good day anywhere else.
You trying to say Jesus Christ can't hit a curveball?
Georgia mom learns the hard truth about government schools.
June 25, 2008 - 09:08 ET by R D HelmThey are run by the same idiot people one encounters at your local driver's license facility.
Indeed.
(h/t: Boortz.com)
The truth is insensitive. - Neal Boortz
This sounds like an
June 25, 2008 - 09:13 ET by motherbeltThis sounds like an extension of the "open spaces" and "sustainable development" movement that was going on in Minnesota when I lived there. For all I know, it still is; this would just give them more ammo.
These folks think everyone should live in high-rises in the cities, walk to work and shopping, and all that land out in the suburbs should be "preserved" as "open space" (of which, apparently, there is a major "shortage").
I listened to a local talk radio guy who spent weeks trying to get someone from the local government to explain exactly what "sustainable development" was, and they couldn't. They just used it as lever to forbid development that they didn't like, as far as I could tell.
Shoot 'em all; let God sort 'em out! - Marge Simpson
If you had worked hard
June 25, 2008 - 09:17 ET by TWOTIMETUNAand saved your money
you would okay
Democrats are either Parasites or Parasite Enablers
Another great decision from YOUR US Supreme Court
June 25, 2008 - 09:30 ET by Prester JohnCourt rejects death penalty for raping children
WASHINGTON - The Supreme Court has struck down a Louisiana law that allows the execution of people convicted of a raping a child.
In a 5-4 vote, the court says the law allowing the death penalty to be imposed in cases of child rape violates the Constitution's ban on cruel and unusual punishment.
"The death penalty is not a proportional punishment for the rape of a child," Justice Anthony Kennedy wrote in his majority opinion. His four liberal colleagues joined him, while the four more conservative justices dissented.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080625/ap_on_go_su_co/scotus_rdp
Not too much to say, although it is interesting to note that those who joined Kennedy are described as "liberal". Interesting. I wonder if the AP writer has children and therefore might not be totally "objective" on this subject?
The death penalty is not a
June 25, 2008 - 09:32 ET by dvdaughtryThe death penalty is not a proportional punishment for the rape of a child
Eye for an eye anyone?
You trying to say Jesus Christ can't hit a curveball?
dv, you are correct. A child rapist should not be executed...
June 25, 2008 - 09:38 ET by R D Helm...until he has been horse-whipped for at least half an hour.
Then throw the useless POS up against a poll or wall, and shoot him.
The truth is insensitive. - Neal Boortz
→ Brer Lechter
June 25, 2008 - 09:45 ET by Cool ArrowPlease don't throw me into the Breyer patch. - Hannibal Lechter
LYDSEXICS UNTIE
Proportional?
June 25, 2008 - 10:01 ET by CGattonI remember nothing in the constitution about punishment needing to be proportional, merely that it not be cruel and unusual. There is nothing cruel and unusual about being put to death. Tragic, perhaps, in that the guilty party's parents didn't raise him better, if that's the case. Not even that if he was raised properly and chose to 'go bad.'
In any case it is neither cruel nor unusual, that is merely the hook liberals use to do away with it, since they disagree with the premise of permanently removing cancer from society.
V/R
Clyde
"...the aspirants to tyranny are either the...men of the state, who in democracies are demagogues,... or those who hold great offices, and have a long tenure.." - Aristotle, Politics, c350BC
Exactly CG
June 25, 2008 - 11:16 ET by RESTLESS 1If the death penalty is upheld at all, then it cannot be classified a "cruel or unusul".
Also, if we ever find a cure for cancer, do you reckon the liberals will put it on the endangered species list?
"This
liberal would be all about socialize -- uh, uh, would be about
basically taking over and the government running all of your companies."-Maxine Waters 2008
Oh There's Plenty to Say, But Better Bite It Off
June 25, 2008 - 09:40 ET by CGatton"Not too much to say..."
Sure there is. Let's start with, "Better enjoy this, McCain haters, because your foolishness will contribute years of the same stupidity from the judges appointed by Obama, should he be elected."
Anyone who reads this decision, and can still say there is no difference between electing McCain and electing Obama is blind, as well as - how did my grandmother phrase it? Ah, yes, "penny wise and pound foolish."
V/R
Clyde
"...the aspirants to tyranny are either the...men of the state, who in democracies are demagogues,... or those who hold great offices, and have a long tenure.." - Aristotle, Politics, c350BC
Point of fact: 6 of the 9
June 25, 2008 - 14:38 ET by mattmPoint of fact: 6 of the 9 were nominated by republican presidents.
SCOTUS
June 26, 2008 - 03:10 ET by Unsane...and this underscores just what a PITA it is to nominate Supreme Court justices. Eisenhower once said the three biggest mistakes of his presidency were all sitting on the Supreme Court.
Res tantum valet quantum vendi potest.
Suburban commuters need not worry.
June 25, 2008 - 09:39 ET by CTNancy and the Obamunists have dictated that you shall drive Yugos in the future.
Carbon Credits Smoke'em if you got'em!
CT...
June 25, 2008 - 09:46 ET by Clear thinker"Obamunists" most definately fits.
I like it.
45 Communist Goals for America http://www.nationmakers.com/com_goals.htm
Oil's well......
June 25, 2008 - 09:47 ET by BarkerLib Argument #1: "We can't drill our way out of it."
Answer: We sure as heck can't tax our way out of it.
Lib Argument #2: "It'll be at least ten years before we see a drop of oil."
Answer: "Well then, let's drill the oil for the children.
It's For the Children!
June 25, 2008 - 09:49 ET by CGattonLOL...love it, especially number two!
V/R
Clyde
"...the aspirants to tyranny are either the...men of the state, who in democracies are demagogues,... or those who hold great offices, and have a long tenure.." - Aristotle, Politics, c350BC
Lib Argument #2: "It'll be
June 25, 2008 - 09:59 ET by dvdaughtryLib Argument #2: "It'll be at least ten years before we see a drop of oil." If Clinton would have done it, we'd be 6 years (or 2 years from)into that oil.
You trying to say Jesus Christ can't hit a curveball?
Bitter Clinger
June 25, 2008 - 10:51 ET by BarkerYeah, and it most likely won't take "ten years" if we start drilling now, but even so, Obama is determined to cling to the failed Clinton policies of the past.
And now, today's struggling
June 25, 2008 - 10:10 ET by Roger the ShrubberAnd now, today's struggling to make ends meet in the suburbs edition of the Shrub Report®:
The death penalty is not a proportional punishment for the rape of a child. WTF? Can we at least put them in a cell with some skinheads?
132 years ago today. George Custer met his doom (was he searching for the golden city that National Treasure 2 claims?). In 1950, North Korea invaded South Korea, and, in 1996, the Khobar Towers was bombed.
Even the NYT is admitting Bush was right.
An Olberdouche Update.
Fun With Headlines time. Bloomberg reports that gasoline demand dropped 2.5% last week. 2.5% lower than what? Oh, last year. Actually, demand ROSE 1.5% from last week. Why isn't THAT the headline? It couldn't be because it doesn't sound so bad? Speaking of doom and gloom hysteria…
The rich get richer? Let the Left explain how there were 600,000 NEW millionaires in the world. Buck up, comrades, the economic downturn in 2008 will surely make that number smaller!
Exxon Valdez victims get their judgement reduced.
The Pennsylvania state budget has not been figured out yet, and the deadline in July 1. Let's take a look at what the state Senate is tackling today. And the state House? State workers might get furloughed, but at least the important issues: (IBS sufferers and licensing massage therapists) have been taken care of.
Jon Stewart, Right-Wing stooge.
Today's Religion of Peace Update. I guess 100 million wanting Sharia Law can still be considered a "mere fraction of the Religion of Peaces and Tolerance"…
It was pretty funny the
June 25, 2008 - 10:31 ET by balboaIt was pretty funny the other night. Jon did a bit about Obama's flip-flop, and when the audience laughed almost nervously, he said, "It's OK to laugh at him, you know."
*gasp!* He dares to mock
June 25, 2008 - 10:47 ET by Roger the Shrubber*gasp!*
He dares to mock the Messiah!!!
Bal, are you signing up to volunteer to sift through the DNC convention garbage?
Um...no.
June 25, 2008 - 10:49 ET by balboaUm...no.
Dr. Jekyll and rog the bigot?
June 25, 2008 - 11:23 ET by TruthMongerFirst you freak like an Imam over Miley Cyrus in a bedsheet...
Then you freak over Sharia law restrictions...
Make up your frackin mind, rog...
Meanwhile - the US has been based on the Sharia law model for over 200 years:)...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sharia#Comparison_with_law_in_the_United_States
Wikipedia???
June 25, 2008 - 11:27 ET by OldSailor88I'd believe O.J. first.
Postatem obscuri lateris nescitis
we all love wiki - when it
June 25, 2008 - 11:34 ET by TruthMongerwe all love wiki - when it backs conservative NB arguments - and it gets done here alot bro - it's not just me:)...
TM, your wiki link is
June 25, 2008 - 11:29 ET by bassndudeTM, your wiki link is somewhat of a streach...even for you. I can make a case for all laws in all countries to be based on Sharia law. You really need to get a grip on this. In the mean time China deals with Islam, they dont skirt it or cater to it. It may be time to follow their example in some cases.
Save a SeAL, club a liberal!!
it's just thought provoking
June 25, 2008 - 11:33 ET by TruthMongerit's just thought provoking - that's all, bass
assuming we here at NB can think - or is that a stretch:)?
It is complete BS. The tip
June 25, 2008 - 11:41 ET by bassndudeIt is complete BS. The tip should be that they claim the earliest law suits. Ha! Seems to me Soloman had a case early on in his time on the throne. And the Judges in Israel traveled the nation to resolve disputes. That whole entry is nothing but islamic propaganda, worthy of classical nazi publishings. Only an uneducated, weak minded person, or an islamist, would even begin to belive that nonsense.
Save a SeAL, club a liberal!!
then just like me - don't
June 25, 2008 - 12:09 ET by TruthMongerthen just like me - don't believe it - just note the comparisons - they are quite valid in a highly macro and academic sense...
Do I understand you
June 25, 2008 - 11:34 ET by dvdaughtryDo I understand you correctly? Are you saying the Founding Fathers, of English heritage, used Sharia law to structure the Constitution of the United States?
You trying to say Jesus Christ can't hit a curveball?
Yes they we're all
June 25, 2008 - 11:35 ET by TruthMongerYes they we're all Muslim...
Dude, are you stupid or what?!?!?
Thanks, I was just
June 25, 2008 - 11:37 ET by dvdaughtryThanks, I was just checking.
You trying to say Jesus Christ can't hit a curveball?
You are into pedophilia. We
June 25, 2008 - 11:49 ET by Roger the ShrubberYou are into pedophilia. We get it already. Here is some help for you.
I am sure you could also draw some sort of parallel between the US gov't and the Politburo, too.
these days that parallel is
June 25, 2008 - 12:10 ET by TruthMongerthese days that parallel is a slam dunk
So, which goat made you
June 25, 2008 - 12:20 ET by Roger the ShrubberSo, which goat made you cover up with your bisht your aroused embarrasment?
Rog... The Supreme Court
June 25, 2008 - 11:34 ET by bigtimerRog...
The Supreme Court just couldn't leave it up to the states to decide what their own laws and punishments should be..now it's going to affect a handful of other states...
Plus that update about Bath-Tub Boy and his first class ticket sounds just like him...
"Never murder your opponent when he is committing suicide." ~ W. Wilson
I can just see Keefy yelling
June 25, 2008 - 11:51 ET by Roger the ShrubberI can just see Keefy yelling "don't you know who I am?!?!?!?!"
A bit more about - George Custer met his doom
June 25, 2008 - 13:27 ET by Giles Winterbourne"many of the squaws captured at Washita were used by the officers...Romero was put in charge of them and on the march Romero would send squaws around to the officers' tents every night. [Clark] says Custer picked out a fine looking one and had her in his tent every night.""(Progressive Historians)
Oh. I thought Custer had the
June 25, 2008 - 14:11 ET by Roger the ShrubberOh. I thought Custer had the finest, strapping young Indian boys sent to his tent.
Whoops, sorry to co-op your dream, Pumpkin!
"Progressive Historians"? Now THAT's comedy!
Giles, while I do not hold
June 25, 2008 - 14:15 ET by bassndudeGiles, while I do not hold Custer in high esteem, in fact, I detest the man and his ego and have a feeling that, if I had ever met the man, I would have had a hard time not killing him. At the same time the Progressive Historians are historically inaccurate and sometimes down right wrong. Progressive Historians have a habit of rewriting history they way they "feel" it was, and facts have a difficult time entering into their "feelings".
That said, Custer hated indians, and while the event may have happened, Custer, being a devoted husband, (which he was), and officer, would have had a hard time explaining this event and it could have cost him his career.
Save a SeAL, club a liberal!!
Cites?
June 25, 2008 - 14:54 ET by Giles WinterbourneHmmm, I'll take eyewitness testimony, as cited, over suppositions that fit a meme.
What point does your post
June 25, 2008 - 15:04 ET by BDWhat point does your post serve?
Shrub simply points out the dates of a battle, then you launch into a posting only TANGENTIALLY related with the only seeming point being to racially inflame.
WHY?
behaviors beyond any orders and insulting to humanity
June 25, 2008 - 18:43 ET by Giles WinterbourneThe Progressive Historians post ( 139th Anniversary of Washita Massacre) describes the horrific behaviors of Custer and his troops, behaviors beyond any orders and insulting to humanity, that led to 'today in history'.It should hardly take being Native American to feel the shame and horror of our government's policies toward them.
Wouldn't you consider Custer's behavior to 'racially inflame' ?
Why point out the actions leading up to Custer's Last Stand? Gee, maybe because we all know about it, but how many of you know the story behind the story, the Washita Massacre? Though of course, we could also talk about Monroe, Jackson......
And did shrub do a 'today in history' for the Washita Massacre?
Obviously, Mr. Progressive
June 25, 2008 - 19:08 ET by Roger the ShrubberObviously, Mr. Progressive Historian does not know the REAL reason Custer was killed, which I had already explained.
Progresisve historian. Hahahhahahahahahahhaha, that's funny stuff!
Then you should really enjoy today's
June 25, 2008 - 19:29 ET by Giles WinterbourneProgressive Historian piece (see, it's not that hard to spell.....)
Comparing Custer to our Commander- in- Chief
Or you can go to Kos' reposting and join the discussion there
I apologize, I was too busy
June 25, 2008 - 20:19 ET by Roger the ShrubberI apologize, I was too busy laughing at you to watch my spelling.
Translation
June 26, 2008 - 03:17 ET by UnsaneProgressive Historians = historians who, like Giles, look at America as being the most evil, sick civilization the world has ever seen.
Res tantum valet quantum vendi potest.
Giles, this is not
June 25, 2008 - 15:15 ET by bassndudeGiles, this is not "eyewitness testimony", as you call it. It was a story that was supposed to have been told by Ben Clark to a Walter Camp. There is no supporting evidence of this event having taken place. Only the word of Walter Camp and another man, Benteen(?), who was very untrustworthy when it came to anything Custer.
Save a SeAL, club a liberal!!
most reliable and accomplished
June 25, 2008 - 15:38 ET by Giles WinterbourneGen. Sheridan described Clark as “the most reliable and accomplished man of his class on the plains.”
Camp wrote the book based on research which includes interviews with Clark.Who was there.Other sources from the PH post were also from contemporary sources.
You have a better source to disprove the statements?
Giles, the question is not
June 25, 2008 - 15:46 ET by bassndudeGiles, the question is not the reliability of Clark, but of the others that are in question. If Clark did tell this story, why did he only tell it to Camp? Camp is the only one to tell of this.
I am not saying that it did not happen, I am saying that the source we have, (Camp) is the only source. It is only his word that Clark told him.
Personaly, I think Custer would have done such a thing. But there is really no proof he did. All we have is Camps word. Most of the other tellings of this are all attributed to Camp. I am not sure he did not tell this story to embellish his book, so perhaps it would sell better.
Save a SeAL, club a liberal!!
Plenty of other records
June 25, 2008 - 16:28 ET by Giles WinterbourneBrill's Custer, Black Kettle, and the Fight on the Washitais but one.
Google isn't going to be the last word in research on this one.
Congressional hearings, assorted published recollections, unpublished letters, and testimony, scholarly papers. Just need to get to a large public or university library and do the research and chase the footnotes.
I hadn't heard of this
June 25, 2008 - 12:19 ET by RESTLESS 1I hadn't heard of this before. At work we are doing it starting this Friday.
"Red Shirt
If the red shirt thing is new to you, read below how it went for a man...
Last week, while traveling to Chicago on business, I noticed a Marine sergeant traveling with a folded flag, but did not put two and two together.
After we boarded our flight, I turned to the sergeant, who'd been invited to sit in First Class (across from me), and inquired if he was heading home.
No, he responded.
Heading out I asked?
No. I'm escorting a soldier home.
Going to pick him up?
No. He is with me right now. He was killed in Iraq , I'm taking him home to his family.
The realization of what he had been asked to do hit me like a punch to the gut. It was an honor for him. He told me that, although he didn't know the soldier, he had delivered the news of his passing to the soldier's family and felt as if he knew them after many conversations in so few days.
I turned back to him, extended my hand, and said, Thank you. Thank you for doing what you do so my family and I can do what we do.
Upon landing in Chicago the pilot stopped short of the gate and made the following announcement over the intercom.
"Ladies and gentlemen, I would like to note that we have had the honor of having Sergeant Steeley of the United States Marine Corps join us on this flight He is escorting a fallen comrade back home to his family. I ask that you please remain in your seats when we open the forward door to allow Sergeant Steeley to deplane and receive his fellow soldier. We will then turn off the seat belt sign."
Without a sound, all went as requested. I noticed the sergeant saluting the casket as it was brought off the plane, and his action made me realize that I am proud to be an American.
So here's a public Thank You to our military Men and Women for what you do so we can live the way we do.
Red Fridays
Very soon, you will see a great many people wearing Red every Friday. The reason? Americans who support our troops used to be called the "silent majority." We are no longer silent, and are voicing our love for God, country and home in record breaking numbers. We are not organized, boisterous or overbearing.
Many Americans, like you, me and all our friends, simply want to recognize that the vast majority of America supports our troops. Our idea of showing solidarity and support for our troops with dignity and respect starts this Friday -- and continues each and every Friday until the troops all come home, sending a deafening message that .. every red-blooded American who supports our men and women afar, will wear something red.
By word of mouth, press, TV -- let's make the United States on every Friday a sea of red much like a homecoming football game in the bleachers. If every one of us who loves this country will share this with acquaintances, coworkers, friends, and family, it will not be long before the USA is covered in RED and it will let our troops know the once "silent" majority is on their side more than ever, certainly more than the media lets on.
The first thing a soldier says when asked "What can we do to make things better for you?" is. "We need your support and your prayers." Let's get the word out and lead with class and dignity, by example, and wear something red every Friday."
"This
liberal would be all about socialize -- uh, uh, would be about
basically taking over and the government running all of your companies."-Maxine Waters 2008
Started in Canada BTW
June 25, 2008 - 13:09 ET by Giles WinterbourneAnd has been floating around for a couple of years. Really; a sea of red?
For another take:
democraticunderground.com/
Giles people like you and
June 25, 2008 - 14:00 ET by Dan The Man 2Giles people like you and Obama dont understand what symbolic is or what some guestures might mean. I guess you also don't pay honor to the anthem or flag and patroitism is something you mention on July 4th then put away the resty of the year. It matters not where it starts, you probably started off fine in life and look at you now. You disgust me, if I saw you on the street I would deck you.
If I go on I would be banned.
I have been wearing red shirts along with a friend at work for a couple of years now, we dont advertise it much or brag but we do tell people when they ask.
Nuke em til they glow then shoot em in the dark.
Dan, you've got to
June 25, 2008 - 14:11 ET by MassConservDan, you've got to understand, Giles was just offended at the suggestion.
Red is supposed to represent communism. I'm sure he doesn't like the idea of a patriotic use of the color.
'symbolic guestures'
June 25, 2008 - 14:47 ET by Giles WinterbourneYeah, we could use some 'symbolic guestures'
body armor. Such armor has been available since 2003, but until
recently the Pentagon has largely declined to supply it to troops
despite calls from the field for additional protection, according to
military officials.
Considering patriotism
----
Here's what seems to have gotten DM2 deranged:
My Response: Feel free to copy and send on to your RW email harrassers:
No, I think I'll respond, because as a human being I cannot support a war. Any war. Never could.
I'm tired of getting all the rah rah email about how wonderful it is.
How honorable it is.
Been to Baghdad lately? Why is that?
How many of you really look at war for what it is?
Here
is a soldier "honoring" a family with the news that they will never see
their son/brother/husband/father/daughter/sister/wife/mother again.
Honor?
I cannot understand how a supposedly "civilized" "Christian" nation can support anything like this.
Civilized people do not deal with others this way.
War is barbaric. Civilized is... different
Christian people do not do this to one another. Real Christians, I mean.
Jesus was "The Prince of Peace".
But..
It might be better if Bush* had not cut the funding for the VA.
http://www.cnn.com/2005/ALLPOLITICS/03/19/dems.radio /
Or if the Pentagon had enough body armor and anti-IED Humvees to go around.
http://www.newsday.com/news/nationworld/nation/ny-usarm...
What sacrifices have Bush* and his cronies made? Why haven't the twins enlisted?
http://nymag.com/nymetro/news/rnc/9699 /
There are more PRIVATE CONTRACTORS in Iraq than US forces.
http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/nationworld/iraq/bal-t...
"Thank you for doing what you do"? What exactly is the mission again?
http://www.commondreams.org/views05/0823-25.htm
The Iraqi people are without clean water, electricity, or peace. Still. How many years is that? Weren't we there to fix that?
Where is that $8 Billion dollars for reconstruction?
http://www.planetark.org/dailynewsstory.cfm/newsid/3471...
Our
guys are coming home and having to wait for a hospital bed for
months.... with brain injuries. Waiting for treatment, many commit
suicide. http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,251580,00.html
Brain injuries are the hallmark of the iraq War.
http://www.house.gov/apps/list/press/ca11_mcnerney/PR07...
Children are dying. That's always fun to let happen, isn't it?
Where's your child tonight?
How can you possibly turn your eyes away from this fact?
http://bbsnews.net/article.php/20070515104959224
http://www.counterpunch.org/hassan12012004.html
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/4395525.st...
"Thank you for doing what you do so my family and I can do what we do..."
What is it you do again? Turn a blind eye to suffering?
Ever hear from an Iraqi? What do they think of our war?
How has it affected their daily life? Your eyes might be opened...
you may even cry at her story. (It's okay)
http://riverbendblog.blogspot.com
Did you ever check to see where your yellow ribbon magnet was made?
Who gains from your buying it?
Forget the Red Fridays... what is that? Wear the color of blood one day a week?
Glorify the war! Wear red every day! Rah Rah.
Frankly
I am appalled at this idea.I'd rather send a soldier a box of books...
kleenex, toilet paper... candy bars... snacks.... a letter...
http://www.anysoldier.com/WhatToSend.cfm
...and wish him a safe journey HOME.
As long as this mess with Iraq continues I will wear black.
Every Day.
To honor and mourn my troops.
How much more of this "honor" will we bear?
3591 Reasons Why The Downing Street Memo is Important http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article537464....
There Have Been 3591 US Troops Killed in Iraq. July 5, 2007
This is reality.
I've read your email, and I hope you will read mine,
including all the links.
Don't discard it.
You may need it one day.
No, I think I'll respond,
June 25, 2008 - 16:07 ET by BDNo, I think I'll respond, because as a human being I cannot support a war. Any war. Never could. I'm tired of getting all the rah rah email about how wonderful it is. How honorable it is. Been to Baghdad lately? Why is that?
How many of you really look at war for what it is?
Here is a soldier "honoring" a family with the news that they will never see their son/brother/husband/father/daughter/sister/wife/mother again. Honor?
I cannot understand how a supposedly "civilized" "Christian" nation can support anything like this.
Civilized people do not deal with others this way.
War is barbaric. Civilized is... different
It might be better if Bush* had not cut the funding for the VA.
Or if the Pentagon had enough body armor and anti-IED Humvees to go around.
What sacrifices have Bush* and his cronies made? Why haven't the twins enlisted?
There are more PRIVATE CONTRACTORS in Iraq than US forces.
The Iraqi people are without clean water, electricity
Children are dying. That's always fun to let happen, isn't it?
Where's your child tonight?
"Thank you for doing what you do so my family and I can do what we do..."
What is it you do again? Turn a blind eye to suffering?
Did you ever check to see where your yellow ribbon magnet was made?
Who gains from your buying it?
Red Cross, Amnesty paint grim picture of post-invasion Iraq
June 25, 2008 - 16:54 ET by Giles Winterbourne"More than four in 10 Iraqis lived on less than one US dollar a day
-- the UN standard for measuring poverty -- while the health and
education systems were at near collapse and women and girls at risk of
violence from extremists.
"Saddam Hussein's administration was a
byword for human rights abuse," said Amnesty's director for Middle East
and North Africa, Malcolm Smart. "But its replacement has brought no
respite at all for its people.""
'The common Iraqi has more access to both since the US arrival than before.' Cite much?
More than four in 10 Iraqis
June 25, 2008 - 17:18 ET by BDMore than four in 10 Iraqis lived on less than one US dollar a day -- the UN standard for measuring poverty
and women and girls at risk of violence from extremists.
"Saddam Hussein's administration was a byword for human rights abuse,"
said Amnesty's director for Middle East and North Africa, Malcolm Smart. "But its replacement has brought no respite at all for its people.""
'The common Iraqi has more access to both since the US arrival than before.' Cite much?
Cite much?
June 25, 2008 - 18:09 ET by Giles WinterbourneAnecdotal comments don't support your discussion point.
"In April 2003, Iraq's usable electrical generation capacity was 2,500 MW - 58 percent of the pre-conflict level. Before the conflict, access to power was unreliable and varied greatly throughout the country. USAID worked to restore electricity to homes, public facilities, and business throughout Iraq.
USAID has helped increase electrical generation to an average daily peak of approximately 4,500 MW. However, estimated total demand in Iraq is 8,500 MW and the looting of cables, destruction of hightension towers, and sabotage of fuel lines persist." USAid.gov
"Thanks largely to deteriorating security,
electricity - along with water, sewage, and oil production - has
dropped below prewar levels. Before the invasion, for example, Baghdad
was receiving an average of at least 16 hours of power a day. Today,
with insurgents targeting power plants and electrical lines on an
almost daily basis, the city gets power just four hours each day on
average." CSMonitor
"As the Bush administration struggles to convince lawmakers that its
Iraq war strategy is working, it has stopped reporting to Congress a
key quality-of-life indicator in Baghdad: how long the power stays on.
Ryan Crocker, the U.S. ambassador to Iraq, told the Senate Foreign
Relations Committee last week that Baghdad residents could count on
only “an hour or two a day” of electricity. That’s down from an
average of five to six hours a day earlier this year.
But that piece of data has not been sent to lawmakers for months
because the State Department, which prepares a weekly “status report”
for Congress on conditions in Iraq, stopped estimating in May how
many hours of electricity Baghdad residents typically receive each day.
Instead, the department now reports on the electricity generated
nationwide, a measurement that does not indicate how much power
Iraqis in Baghdad or elsewhere actually receive." LAT
"The city of
Ramadi would need approximately 100 megawatts of power to provide
electricity to the citizens 24-hours a day said Kunzman. The city
currently operates with about 35 megawatts through the national
electrical grid. Electricity is available on a rotational basis for
about six hours per day with most people living without power for up to
18 hours per day." Joint Forces Command .mil
My bolding.
So, almost back to pre-war level, except for the looting, distruction and sabotage....
Anecdotal comments don't
June 26, 2008 - 10:43 ET by BDAnecdotal comments don't support your discussion point.
"In April 2003, Iraq's usable electrical generation capacity was 2,500 MW - 58 percent of the pre-conflict level. Before the conflict, access to power was unreliable and varied greatly throughout the country. USAID worked to restore electricity to homes, public facilities, and business throughout Iraq.
USAID has helped increase electrical generation to an average daily peak of approximately 4,500 MW. However, estimated total demand in Iraq is 8,500 MW and the looting of cables, destruction of hightension towers, and sabotage of fuel lines persist."
"Thanks largely to deteriorating security, electricity - along with water, sewage, and oil production - has dropped below prewar levels. Before the invasion, for example, Baghdad was receiving an average of at least 16 hours of power a day.
Today, with insurgents targeting power plants and electrical lines on an almost daily basis, the city gets power just four hours each day on average."
The city of Ramadi would need approximately 100 megawatts of power to provide electricity to the citizens 24-hours a day said Kunzman. The city currently operates with about 35 megawatts through the national electrical grid. Electricity is available on a rotational basis for about six hours per day with most people living without power for up to 18 hours per day."
So, almost back to pre-war level, except for the looting, distruction and sabotage....
Cite much?
June 25, 2008 - 18:28 ET by Giles Winterbourne"..it has brough hope."
"On the economy, Mr. Ban said the signs were also hopeful, citing estimates from the International Monetary Fund (IMF)
that the economy has expanded since last year. But he added that there
are still too many citizens who lack clean water and sanitation,
electricity and fuel, and access to proper health care and education.
He noted that there are also vast numbers of Iraqi refugees as well as
hundreds of thousands of internally displaced persons (IDPs) who require urgent assistance." UN
"The U.S. invasion and a poorly conceived occupation have created danger
and chaos in a country already devastated by years of international
economic sanctions and a dictatorship that squandered valuable
resources on military adventures. Iraq’s government and its
institutions have been destroyed and a foreign army cannot and should
not fill the void. With each passing week, more Iraqis grow angry and
refuse to cooperate with a provisional authority and occupation forces
that they view as both illegitimate and ineffective."
Building Hope for Iraq : An American Friends Service Committee Position
You are welcome.
June 26, 2008 - 10:44 ET by BDYou are welcome.
Giles,
June 25, 2008 - 14:11 ET by RESTLESS 1So, what you are saying is the Canadians support out troops more than our own democrat leaders. We already knew that.
"This
liberal would be all about socialize -- uh, uh, would be about
basically taking over and the government running all of your companies."-Maxine Waters 2008
Bush threaten and McCain not supporting Veteran's benefit
June 25, 2008 - 15:05 ET by Giles WinterbourneBody armor - Republican majority
8.8 billion dollars unaccounted for - investigations under republican majority
Bush threaten and McCain not supporting Veteran's benefits- Uh, both (R)
House and Senate passed with whose majority?
Body armor - enough while I
June 25, 2008 - 16:10 ET by BDBody armor - enough while I was there regardless of the HUGE reductions the DOD took under the Dems.
8.8 Billion. Please find me a war that is not inherently wasteful.
Veterans benefits? please be precise, which benefits do you seek?
This could almost be insightful
June 25, 2008 - 16:41 ET by Giles WinterbourneIF there were links to reports on the adequate body armor. Sorry, an anecdotal comment doesn't equate the the hearings and testimony given on the topic.
Over one third of the money allocated not able to be accounted for? After study, hearing, and continuing research?
One example - education after service
IF there were links to
June 25, 2008 - 17:36 ET by BDIF there were links to reports on the adequate body armor. Sorry, an anecdotal comment doesn't equate the the hearings and testimony given on the topic.
Over one third of the money allocated not able to be accounted for? After study, hearing, and continuing research?
One example - education after service
Interesting list of schools
June 26, 2008 - 07:47 ET by Giles Winterbourne' Please see comparisons to WWII, Korea, Vietnam, Spanish American War, etc.'
Which you seem unable to provide. There is a reason why the $8.8billion missing is an issue.
Interesting list of schools - Why not mention your rationale of those choices? And, cite proof of 'These schools are un-diverse in the critical quotient that is military members and veterans.'
The recent bill has provisions for letting veterans make the choice of school, locality, type of further education.
Interesting that you limit it to 'combat veterans', The others who serve aren't worthy of the same treatment?
Which you seem unable to
June 26, 2008 - 11:52 ET by BDWhich you seem unable to provide. There is a reason why the $8.8billion missing is an issue.
Interesting list of schools - Why not mention your rationale of those choices? And, cite proof of 'These schools are un-diverse in the critical quotient that is military members and veterans.'
Interesting that you limit it to 'combat veterans', The others who serve aren't worthy of the same treatment?
Ouch!
June 26, 2008 - 12:46 ET by Roger the ShrubberBD - 21
Giles the KOStard - 0
Time for another slap
June 26, 2008 - 03:26 ET by UnsaneSorry, an anecdotal comment doesn't equate the the hearings and testimony given on the topic. Um, I'd pay attention to what BD says. He's been there. By the way, I just got back from there a little over a month ago. I could not board the plane that took me into the country without getting issued body armor, among other required items.
I knew my country was seeing to it I was equipped to do what I had to do. I also knew that, thanks to my travels in the States to and from the Middle East, that the number of ingrates like you are thankfully low in number, compared to people appreciative of what the military accomplishes every day.
But, save it. As a hardened Socialist, the last thing you care about is the military. In fact, Giles, the fact that the United States has a powerful military with a global reach fills you with deep embarrassment and overwhelming shame - you despise America because it isn't the whiny Nanny State you so ache for it to be. As long as this country has a powerful military, that will be an obstacle for you.
Res tantum valet quantum vendi potest.
Actually, no I don't need to
June 26, 2008 - 07:39 ET by Giles WinterbourneNothing verifiable in either of your statements. Like I said, cite a reliable resource, then there could be a discussion.
And, yeah, the issue might have finally gotten resolved. In that case you could cite a report or study also.
But the fact of the matter is that there was a long period of time where the Pentagon wasn't working to provide the equipment necessary. It took public scrutiny and hearings before they responded.
Maybe both of you should be thanking the liberal media for their patriotic service.
Nothing verifiable in
June 26, 2008 - 12:07 ET by BDNothing verifiable in either of your statements. Like I said, cite a reliable resource, then there could be a discussion.
And, yeah, the issue might have finally gotten resolved. In that case you could cite a report or study also.
But the fact of the matter is that there was a long period of time where the Pentagon wasn't working to provide the equipment necessary.
It took public scrutiny and hearings before they responded.
Maybe both of you should be thanking the liberal media for their patriotic service.
neither of you can cite a resource that corroborates your assert
June 26, 2008 - 14:37 ET by Giles WinterbourneThe information in the Custer thread has corroboration from multiple sources. And the amount of data from the mid-19th century is far more limited compared to what is available for late-20th/early 21st century.
And again, neither of you can cite a resource that corroborates your assertions. So, what do you think that does for your credibility?
'good news from Iraq does not make it to the press, this would confirm our beliefs by itself.'
So no .mil site even? A Rep or Senator's visit testimony? Nobody has mentioned success at a Senate hearing? No interviews on radio or TV that have transcriptions in library databases or at their site?
' "hearings" which were largely a political sham designed to gain political points during an election cycle'
"Congress has allocated funds for all U.S. troops to wear 16-pound, ceramic-plated Interceptor body armor,
but as many as 51,000 American soldiers and civilian administrators in
Iraq have not yet been equipped with the gear, and have been asking
friends and families at home to purchase and send them off-the-shelf
models for protection.' FOX News - 2003
"
As early as Oct. 3, 1993, the Ranger fight in downtown Mogadishu
demonstrated the added value of armored Humvees. Subsequent
shoot'em-ups in ex-Yugoslavia proved once again how effectively this
rugged vehicle protects our grunts.
Yet the high brass, from SecDef Bill Cohen to Donald Rumsfeld
to almost a generation of generals, never bothered to adjust their
budgets to buy more armored Humvees. And today, troops are being killed
and wounded in Iraq and Afghanistan because there aren't enough of
these bullet-and-shrapnel-stoppers to go around.
Why is the armored Humvee in such short supply when after-action reports have been shouting its praises since 1993?
For sure, there's been no shortage of cash. Since the need for
these obviously essential lifesavers became apparent, the Pentagon has
ordered more than $5 trillion of toys – from irrelevant big-ticket
items like Star Wars II, to fleets of VIP jets to fly generals and
politicians to and fro, to Gen. Tommy Franks spending almost half a
million dollars on a VIP show-and-tell stage he had sent from the USA
to Qatar so he could spin the Iraq War in a slick "Today" show-like
setting." David Hackworth 2004 WorldNetDaily
My bolding
REF seemed to be working quite well?
your 4 and 5 year links are
June 26, 2008 - 14:50 ET by dvdaughtryyour 4 and 5 year links are very convincing...
You trying to say Jesus Christ can't hit a curveball?
discussing events that happened then
June 26, 2008 - 15:08 ET by Giles WinterbourneWe are discussing events that happened then. That they say, without corroboration, didn't happen.Or rather, attempt to disprove by stating they didn't have a problem. Without dating, without documentation.
I'm providing a couple of contemporaneous resources.
I wasn't arguing that the problem still exists. Though, of course, if either of them could provide documentation for their assertions.....
They seem to think ipse dixit is fine.
The information in the
June 26, 2008 - 15:21 ET by BDThe information in the Custer thread has corroboration from multiple sources. And the amount of data from the mid-19th century is far more limited compared to what is available for late-20th/early 21st century.
'good news from Iraq does not make it to the press, this would confirm our beliefs by itself.'
So no .mil site even? A Rep or Senator's visit testimony? Nobody has mentioned success at a Senate hearing? No interviews on radio or TV that have transcriptions in library databases or at their site?
"Congress has allocated funds for all U.S. troops to wear 16-pound, ceramic-plated Interceptor body armor,
but as many as 51,000 American soldiers and civilian administrators in Iraq have not yet been equipped with the gear, and have been asking friends and families at home to purchase and send them off-the-shelf models for protection.' FOX News - 2003
As early as Oct. 3, 1993, the Ranger fight in downtown Mogadishu demonstrated the added value of armored Humvees. Subsequent shoot'em-ups in ex-Yugoslavia proved once again how effectively this rugged vehicle protects our grunts.
Yet the high brass, from SecDef Bill Cohen to Donald Rumsfeld to almost a generation of generals, never bothered to adjust their budgets to buy more armored Humvees.
And today, troops are being killed and wounded in Iraq and Afghanistan because there aren't enough of these bullet-and-shrapnel-stoppers to go around.
Why is the armored Humvee in such short supply when after-action reports have been shouting its praises since 1993?
For sure, there's been no shortage of cash. Since the need for these obviously essential lifesavers became apparent, the Pentagon has ordered more than $5 trillion of toys – from irrelevant big-ticket items like Star Wars II, to fleets of VIP jets to fly generals and politicians to and fro, to Gen. Tommy Franks spending almost half a million dollars on a VIP show-and-tell stage he had sent from the USA to Qatar so he could spin the Iraq War in a slick "Today" show-likesetting." David Hackworth 2004 WorldNetDaily
REF seemed to be working quite well?
Back to no sources....
June 26, 2008 - 16:26 ET by Giles Winterbourne'I hereby invite all other NB'ers who served in Afghanistan and Iraq who
recieved proper IBA to comment on it so Giles can get a headcount.'
Or better yet, cite a published resource with some credibility. Your assertions carry little weight without confirmation. You know, they offer storytelling classes in college.
'it indicated that DEMAND was up from start of war. I can verify this
as increased freedom (usually considered a good thing, except if it is
the wrong people doing accordin gto librals) has meant increased demand
for electricity.'
Not to mention a complete non sequitur.
We are talking about a basic service, electricity. Having it on. Available. Usable quantities for the population.
How does 'demand' mean 'increased freedom'?
The source I quoted was talking about it being at 58% of prewar levels with a plan to get it back up to 4,500MW and an unmet demand for 8,50MW.
Not a success.
Say what you need to feel good about supporting an illegal and pre-emptive war based on falsified and unverified justifications. I'll continue to do my patriotic duty by supporting the A C L U and the American Friends Service Committee
---
"In April 2003, Iraq's usable electrical generation capacity was 2,500 MW - 58 percent of the pre-conflict level.
Before the conflict, access to power was unreliable and varied greatly
throughout the country. USAID worked to restore electricity to homes,
public facilities, and business throughout Iraq.
USAID has helped increase electrical generation to an average daily peak of approximately 4,500 MW.
However, estimated total demand in Iraq is 8,500 MW and the looting of
cables, destruction of hightension towers, and sabotage of fuel lines
persist." USAid.gov
"Thanks largely to deteriorating security,
electricity - along with water, sewage, and oil production - has
dropped below prewar levels. Before the invasion, for example, Baghdad
was receiving an average of at least 16 hours of power a day. Today,
with insurgents targeting power plants and electrical lines on an
almost daily basis, the city gets power just four hours each day on
average." CSMonitor
"As the Bush administration struggles to convince lawmakers that its
Iraq war strategy is working, it has stopped reporting to Congress a
key quality-of-life indicator in Baghdad: how long the power stays on.
Ryan Crocker, the U.S. ambassador to Iraq, told the Senate Foreign
Relations Committee last week that Baghdad residents could count on
only “an hour or two a day” of electricity. That’s down from an
average of five to six hours a day earlier this year.
But that piece of data has not been sent to lawmakers for months
because the State Department, which prepares a weekly “status report”
for Congress on conditions in Iraq, stopped estimating in May how
many hours of electricity Baghdad residents typically receive each day.
Instead, the department now reports on the electricity generated
nationwide, a measurement that does not indicate how much power
Iraqis in Baghdad or elsewhere actually receive." LAT
"The city of
Ramadi would need approximately 100 megawatts of power to provide
electricity to the citizens 24-hours a day said Kunzman. The city
currently operates with about 35 megawatts through the national
electrical grid. Electricity is available on a rotational basis for
about six hours per day with most people living without power for up to
18 hours per day." Joint Forces Command .mil
My bolding.
So, almost back to pre-war level, except for the looting, distruction and sabotage....
'I hereby invite all other
June 26, 2008 - 17:31 ET by BD'I hereby invite all other NB'ers who served in Afghanistan and Iraq who recieved proper IBA to comment on it so Giles can get a headcount.'
Or better yet, cite a published resource with some credibility. Your assertions carry little weight without confirmation.
'it indicated that DEMAND was up from start of war. I can verify this as increased freedom (usually considered a good thing, except if it is the wrong people doing accordin gto librals) has meant increased demand for electricity.'
We are talking about a basic service, electricity. Having it on. Available. Usable quantities for the population. How does 'demand' mean 'increased freedom'?
Say what you need to feel good about supporting an illegal and pre-emptive war based on falsified and unverified justifications. I'll continue to do my patriotic duty by supporting the A C L U and the American Friends Service Committee
"In April 2003,
Iraq's usable electrical generation capacity was 2,500 MW - 58 percent of the pre-conflict level.
Before the conflict, access to power was unreliable and varied greatly throughout the country. USAID worked to restore electricity to homes, public facilities, and business throughout Iraq. USAID has helped increase electrical generation to an average daily peak of approximately 4,500 MW. However, estimated total demand in Iraq is 8,500 MW and the looting of cables, destruction of hightension towers, and sabotage of fuel lines persist."
So, almost back to pre-war level,
ipse dixit
June 26, 2008 - 18:20 ET by Giles Winterbournewith no credibility.
'Proving anegative is impossible as you know when the press fails to
cover news stories. Can you find me a story dated int eh past 12 months
that shows a soldier complaing that he departed Udairi Range in Kuwait
for Iraq without Kevalr, IBA, and 2 SAPI?'
We weren't discussing now. The point arose about the lack of equipment on going in, the slowness of delivery, and the Pentagon attempts to obscure the problem. Yeah, five years later, maybe it has improved. In either case neither of you have been able to cite a source beyond ipse dixit for proof.
'Proving anegative is impossible as you know when the press fails to cover news stories.'
Actually, proof of providing armor in a timely manner would be positive coverage. And it seems that you're conflating two different arguements in that sentence. You can't find a report or an article citing timely delivery of armor?
Electricity production to Sept 2007 Brookings Institute -pg 40
MWH prewar 95,000 Sept 2007 119,376 Yeah, that's meeting a demand based on new freedom.
" And we will help
them to restore basic services, such as electricity and water, and to
build new schools, roads, and medical clinics." Bush -2003 - Whitehouse.gov
'Proving anegative is
June 26, 2008 - 20:29 ET by BD'Proving anegative is impossible as you know when the press fails to cover news stories. Can you find me a story dated int eh past 12 months that shows a soldier complaing that he departed Udairi Range in Kuwait for Iraq without Kevalr, IBA, and 2 SAPI?'
We weren't discussing now. The point arose about the lack of equipment on going in,
Yeah, five years later, maybe it has improved. In either case neither of you have been able to cite a source beyond ipse dixit for proof.
Actually, proof of providing armor in a timely manner would be positive coverage.
You can't find a report or an article citing timely delivery of armor?
MWH prewar 95,000 Sept 2007 119,376 Yeah, that's meeting a demand based on new freedom.
" And we will help them to restore basic services, such as electricity and water, and to build new schools, roads, and medical clinics." Bush -2003 - Whitehouse.gov
Canteen cup?
June 27, 2008 - 08:52 ET by Giles WinterbourneStats are tending (e.g. -Electricity production to Sept 2007 Brookings Institute -pg 40 MWH prewar 95,000 Sept 2007 119,376) to show in many cases basic services are now, five+ years after the invasion, to reach pre-war conditions. Yeah, that shows planning.
'I am sure the press has not written a story showing that I had the necessary canteen cup...'
Interesting. Other than an offer to scan your receipt, both of you seem unable to find data showing troops were properly equipped as proof the hearings on armor were a 'sham'. Sounds more like RW propaganda rather than the American spirit of digging out the truth.
Note the date on the Bush quote.Yeah, promises kept.
Okay, lets do the math. If
June 27, 2008 - 11:21 ET by BDOkay, lets do the math.
If the prewar deamdn (And supply) equals 95,000 units, and the current load and demand is 119,376, GUESS WHAT?????
Drum roll please........
Currently supply and demand is greater than prewar by an addtional 74% which roughly jibes with the concept that the Iraqi Economy has grown 16% per year in regards to Electrical demand.
Shack!
Interesting. Other than an offer to scan your receipt, both of you seem unable to find data showing troops were properly equipped as proof the hearings on armor were a 'sham'. Sounds more like RW propaganda rather than the American spirit of digging out the truth.
rerun your math-addtional 74%?
June 27, 2008 - 12:19 ET by Giles WinterbourneAnd the logic stands by itself. It is not negative. I cited where there was a lack of planning, progress toward solving the problem, foot-dragging until it was made public in getting soldiers supplied with critical equipment. Cited .mil sources, .gov sources.
You were/are saying they had the equipment and as proof you say they had the equipment because you had the equipment. Missing that you didn't state when you were there. Missing that you couldn't provide a source, Pentagon or elsewhere, that it was being supplied. So, first you attempt to prove without even mentioning dates, then you attempt to bluster through by saying you can't find it so it is a negative piece of logic.
Note also the 119,376 is below goal. Not by much, but below. Do you want to go into water, food,healthcare, sewer?
We have a foreign policy dictated by using force to control the flow of oil. How's that working for you?
I note that you have not
June 27, 2008 - 13:06 ET by BDI note that you have not proven using press sources that you were not raped in prison by Bubba the Samoan. Why is that? easgerly awaiting the link ot the appropriate newstory proving it.
The logical argument you are having a concundrum with is called "PROVING A NEGATIVE."
Okay, lets do logic Part II.
If, electrical generation capability at wars start is X.
Then, 6 years later, the country is able to generate X+25,000.
That is what we call an improvement.
Sure, I will talk about water, Healthcare, and Sewer ANYTIME since it is obviously been an improvement that the US has overseen.
We have a foreign policy dictated by using force to control the flow of oil. How's that working for you?
Foreign policy naivete on parade
June 30, 2008 - 23:57 ET by UnsaneWe have a foreign policy dictated by using force I just need that portion of the sentence to prove what a foreign policy dunce you are.
ALL foreign policy is ineffective unless backed by FORCE.
Giles, how do you think this country came into existence? Did Lord North and King George III sail to Philadelphia to engage the Continental Congress in a group hug?
How did Hitler, Mussolini and Tojo go bye-bye? With therapy?
Why did Kim-Il Sung back the hell out of the southern portion of the Korean peninsula? The kindness of his heart?
Did the Wall crumble because Hans Modrow and Gorbachev decide that freedom really WAS in the best interest of East Germans? Or, were they FORCED into that reality?
As for your oil whine, this only shows me how little you understand there. If we wanted to invade anyone strictly for the oil spigot, Alberta would have a Governor, not a Premier, and would represent the 51st star on the flag.
Dismissed. With contempt.
Res tantum valet quantum vendi potest.
'pointy sticks'
June 30, 2008 - 10:57 ET by Giles Winterbourne'I must say I am amused by the fact that I am being confronted by
someone who identifies with the Quakers who have sought to prevent the
US military from getting anything more dangerous than pointy sticks. I
mean GOOOOD GOD!'
Actually, I think the idea is that we have better brains than to need to use 'pointy sticks'. Some of us just do use theirs.
And it would behoove you to review the humanitarian work the American Friends Service Committee has been doing to make up for the failures of the foreign policy we have been persuing in Iraq
All the intelligence in the
June 30, 2008 - 12:25 ET by BDAll the intelligence in the world does not prevent evil people from doing evil things. But an American Infantryman carrying an M-16 does.
When was the last time the Quakers did something that concretely led to the destruction of evil men?
My beef with the Quakers comes from them actively lobbying to prevent an exercise we had scheduled on public roads and land near one of their communes because "They thought it would be warlike." Idiots.
That exercise did more to prevent evil in the world than all the pseudo-prayer meetings they have very held.
American Infantryman carrying an M-16
June 30, 2008 - 15:02 ET by Giles Winterbourne"U.S. Army Documents That Depict American Troops' Involvement in Civilian Casualties in Iraq and Afghanistan"
"The
following photos are only of a very tiny fraction of the
thousands of Iraqi Civilian Victims who have been terrorised,
humiliated, injured, maimed and killed through British and American Bombing of civilian
areas in various cities of Iraq." (page one of twenty)
But I guess that is normal, like not being able to account for $8,800,000,000 of $21B budgeted for reconstruction.
When the evil people hide
June 30, 2008 - 16:23 ET by BDWhen the evil people hide amongst he innocent, begin amassacreing them, then make the situation untenable - US troops respond.
US forces are trained to use only enough firepower to get the job done, and I have sat through countless hours of training as a targeteer to learn to minimize civilian casualties. I have WATCHED as those techniques are used and civilian casualties ARE minimized.
Our enemies show no such restraint and in fact attempt to maximize civilan casualties. Guess why? They are evil.
Is your position that if the US had never attacked the Baathist regime, then NO bad things ever would occur? If so, you live in a severe vaccum.
By the by, how's is it coming finding that news article that confirms you were never raped in prison by Bubba the Samoan? I am certain you shall find it any minute now.
Great Point!
June 30, 2008 - 15:09 ET by Roger the ShrubberI, too, would accept as gospel the findings of an organization who backed the Soviet Union in the 1930's and Pol Pot. The clincher for me was the funding sources of the AFSC: The Ford Foundation, Rockefeller Foundation, and especially the Open Society Institute. Now THAT'S pedigree.
Ooooh, I forgot about theis
June 30, 2008 - 16:26 ET by BDOoooh, I forgot about theis links to the Sovs. That whole "Kulack" thing has gotta sting, don't you imagine?
I realize I am late to he party...
July 1, 2008 - 00:05 ET by Unsane...but nonetheless I thought I'd add this:
Last January my first deployment (can you believe it???) began. I could not even get a whiff of the plane to Iraq without IBA. And even then, I was issued duplicates of some items back at home station.
I could not fly to/from Iraq without wearing body armor and a Kevlar helmet.
(Looks like Giles needs to do much studying before he can even dream of hanging on in a conversation on military matters. Logistics does not seem to be his strong point either.)
Res tantum valet quantum vendi potest.
Uns... You still in
July 1, 2008 - 00:16 ET by bigtimerUns...
You still in Alaska now?
If you are, having lived there nine years myself, it is basically early yet for you...around nine correct?
Just curious...nothing more.
What area are you in? I lived in Seward, some in Anchorage briefly.
"Never murder your opponent when he is committing suicide." ~ W. Wilson
BD, Wikipedia offers some
June 26, 2008 - 15:09 ET by Roger the ShrubberBD, Wikipedia offers some sort of timeline for the body armor situation. New body armor was adopted by the Army in 2006, and has also been ordered by the Marines.
It's not like new technology for body armor happens overnight, right? In fact, it was just THIS PASTWEEK that a Pittsburgh company announced the next generation of body armor.
Roger: You are correct.
June 26, 2008 - 17:42 ET by BDRoger:
You are correct. A typical procurement cycle for a device used by the US Army calls for many steps all mandated by the Congress in the early 80's to preclude wasteful spending. This all came about because of the famous SGT York ADA system that failed.
These new steps used to preclude a SGT York Situation coming about again include long months of R&D, Experiemnetation, Testing, Training, and finally fielding to the force.
Normally it takes several years to get even the most uncontroverisal program to make it through the wickets necessary to be fielded to the force.
Thta is why the REF is so interesting and exciting. Instead of fielding, it only is designed to equip a portion of the force that is going immediately into theater. As I understand it, they can bypass much of the beauracracy normally met by a program and get just enough equipment purchased for immediate use.
IBA, Uparmor, & new blood clotting bandages are some of those programs.
But we can never convince the commited liberal that we are doing ANYTHING in spite of the good news. They revel in the bad.
Actually, yes you do
June 30, 2008 - 23:48 ET by UnsaneSeeing how you pride yourself in doing research, let me remind you that whatever "anecdotal evidence" I leave of my deployment - or that BD leaves of his - in written form or whatever will be of interest to historians long after we are gone.
There is much verifiable in my statements. Of course, this would require you going to Iraq yourself, which you won't do for various reasons, chief among them you being a coward.
But the fact of the matter is that there was a long period of time where the Pentagon wasn't working to provide the equipment necessary. It took public scrutiny and hearings before they responded. As if you care. The military fills you with extreme embarrassment and overwhelming shame. You'd rather the Pentagon have zero funds while the government becomes your Personal Pampering Agency. In any event, I am what is called a logistician. A logistician, Giles, is....forget it. Anyways, as a logistician, I haven't seen all these issues you repeatedly cite while dripping with crocodile tears.
Maybe both of you should be thanking the liberal media for their patriotic service. Sure, when glaciers are sighted in Hell. The Leftist media, along with you, cannot wait for a day when the United States is so whiny and pathetic on the world scene that we make Andorra look like a superpower.
By the way, where is all this Leftists media in the trenches with me and others? I saw a grand total of ONE media type in the desert. And why was she there? Not to cover the Bronze Star recipients who got their medals pinned on by the VP, that I can assure you. I was standing less that 100 feet away.
Res tantum valet quantum vendi potest.
McCain not supporting
June 26, 2008 - 12:02 ET by Jack BauerThat's a lie, which you must know. McCain supported a different Bill affording Veterans' Benefits, and he had a logical rationale for doing so.
You may not agree with that rationale but that's different argument. So why not make that argument instead of stating a blatant falsehood?
I still like my particular
June 26, 2008 - 12:10 ET by BDI still like my particular educational plan, that being place all the deishcarged soldiers in Ivy League schools and select others while asking the educational institutions to pay for it out of their trusts "Voluntarily."
BD -- I read somewhere
June 27, 2008 - 12:25 ET by Jack BauerBD -- I read somewhere recently that Harvard is sitting on endowment trusts worth $25 billion.
Yep. So, doing a bit of
June 27, 2008 - 17:08 ET by BDYep.
So, doing a bit of analysis using just Harvard.
Their Freshman class size is roughly 1685 new freshmen students each year.
Tuition, Fees, Board and books are roughly $52,650 per year.
That means, Harvard, to be reasonable corporate citizen should only need to deplete that trust fund by $88,662,600 in order to give returning veterans a full year of college for an entire freshman class.
If we ask them to pay for four full years the cost goes to about $354,650,400.
I believe this is doable and just. And will likely, finally reverse the discrimination Harvard has heaped ont he US military for the past 30 years.
Just consider it affirmative action for the patriotic.
Plus, considering that $25
June 28, 2008 - 09:13 ET by Roger the ShrubberPlus, considering that $25 billion is earning interest, @ 5% interest it is earning $1.25 billion a year. Subtracting $350 mil would not be that big of a deal, right?
I agree, and think of the
June 28, 2008 - 12:27 ET by BDI agree, and think of the wonderful dialogues that could be held between the new breed of students who have actually been somewhere and done something and the stodgy old ill-dressed profs who teach liberal orthodoxy.
Think of it, you would have a liberal Sociology professor who makes sweeping comments about the war in Iraq called onto the carpet during a lecture by a former SF Team Leader who spent three tours living amongst the Iraqi's.
A prof who had not been in the field like Ward Churchill, but discusses the psychology of violance and claiming that our imperialist presence cuases all violence would recieve a "logical HEADBUT" from a platoon leader who had spent two years on MTT teams taining the Iraqi military.
Beautiful...
The traditional free flow of information could finally be restored to the university by this one move.
Of course, the Liberal profs would finally have students who could contribute to discussion in a form other than the traditional mushy liberal bumper stickers that have held sway at Ivy League schools since the 1960's.
THey should consider that a good thing, but they will not.
But the real key thing is, they cannot compalin about the "New GI Bill" if they are not willing to do something themselves to rectify the problem which they easily could.
Your story has just
June 25, 2008 - 14:13 ET by red_dragon311Your story has just made me cry hear at work, thank you for sharing
A government big enough to give you everything you want, is strong enough to take everything you have.
-Gerald Ford
Red Dragon
June 25, 2008 - 14:42 ET by RESTLESS 1Oops, sorry for the confusion. It was not a first hand experience. That was a quote. It is a good story though.
"This
liberal would be all about socialize -- uh, uh, would be about
basically taking over and the government running all of your companies."-Maxine Waters 2008
Hey, what happened to the
June 25, 2008 - 12:44 ET by balboaHey, what happened to the post about Colbert's slap at McCain?
Maybe they took
June 26, 2008 - 03:51 ET by sarcasmoOur combined, tag-team "declaration of dud" seriously. :) If it's 'bias' every time a comic declares a politician stupid, this forum's gonna get even more clogged with totally-meaningless posts.
JMR
PS I just saw Brit Hume say the recent Bear Stearns socialism "wasn't a bailout, it was a buyout." Now THERE'S a big slice of media bias. Brit, it was guaranteed by us taxpayers on many April 15ths to come, or it was guaranteed by USD inflation that's destined to be borne by their kids, too. How dumb do you think we are, anyway, Fox News?? I can only imagine Brit's whines if the Fed under Slick Willie's administration had done the exact same thing.
The tax & spend drug war looks racist in the real world.
Obama Just LOST the Southern Vote
June 25, 2008 - 13:27 ET by GothampcNo fried foods will be served at the DNC Convention.
None of my Southern relatives vote Democrat, but if they did they would be saying: "Give up fried chicken? Forget that."
"Among them: No fried food. And, on the theory that nutritious food is more vibrant, each meal should include "at least three of the following colors: red, green, yellow, blue/purple, and white." (Garnishes don't count.) At least 70% of ingredients should be organic or grown locally, to minimize emissions from fuel burned during transportation. "One would think," says Mr. Burns, "that the Democrats in Denver have bigger fish to bake -- they have ruled out frying already -- than mandating color-coordinated pretzel platters."
http://online.wsj.com/public/article/SB121434145793701111.html?mod=blog
Now in a normal society an intelligent person would think...
June 25, 2008 - 13:31 ET by Prester John....that this was merely satire, but in 2008 America the logical reaction is to ask, "what will they come up with to top this?"
I hate baked fish. Having
June 25, 2008 - 14:16 ET by ricklailI hate baked fish. Having developed a peanut allergy, I can't eat fish that is fried in peanut oil. My favorite place to eat uses peanut oil.
I wasn't going to vote for a Dem anyway. I bet a lot of them won't eat at the convention either. I would also bet that they consume a lot of adult beverages. Those are just as fattening as a piece of good ole greasy fried chicken or fish.
“A debate is a conflict which clarifies a position. A dialogue is a conversation which compromises a position.” –John E. Ashbrook, The New Neutralism II, P. 7
Wake-Up Call
June 25, 2008 - 14:42 ET by GothampcVote Obama and you can kiss French Fries goodbye. You'll have to travel to the UK to get anything fried.
That'll be the day...
June 25, 2008 - 16:35 ET by sarcasmoI predict a massive revolt instead...I'd be shocked if some Democrat -- probably from the south, and I say that proudly as a southerner -- doesn't bring along an enormous propane fryer.
JMR
The tax & spend drug war looks racist in the real world.
Just got a phone solicitation. . .
June 25, 2008 - 13:42 ET by tracheostomyFrom: "AC services calling on behalf of the Navy Veterans Association Somethingorother. . .is Mr. Jordan home?"
PJ: Nope, you got the wrong name.
"Oh, well you're in the system anyway. We'd like to ask for your support to send care packages to Iraq. Please join with us in this patriotic love for the troops and their families patriotic American patriotism care men and women in uniform working so hard. . ."
PJ: Sorry, the website I'm currently on already has a link to a care package project, and I was thinking--
"Oh! Your website's already doing that? Well then. . ."
PJ: I didn't say that. I was--
"Howabout sending money to us and we'll send the troops a calling card on your behalf?"
PJ (annoyed): Why would I do THAT if I couldn't just send it along in a care package?
"Oh! Well thanks and have a good day." *click*
Telemarketers. . .always the first to hang up.
-PJ
"Trake: Your lofty convictions are another blemish on the rump of congregational sectarianism." -Tumbler 5/15/07
AB
June 25, 2008 - 14:27 ET by JDWWould InBev protect the Anheuser-Busch flow to political coffers?
JDW
Remember the Countrywide Six?
Who forgot to write about the advances in Iraq?
If bin Laden is presumed innocent, why not just shoot him over there?
Housing Bill
June 25, 2008 - 14:36 ET by ricklailI haven't seen anyone post here about the provisions in the Housing Bill to track purchases made online. Story
What a two face Dodd *(&^% is. He doesn't want us spying on terrorist but he doesn't mind spying on us.
“A debate is a conflict which clarifies a position. A dialogue is a conversation which compromises a position.” –John E. Ashbrook, The New Neutralism II, P. 7
rick... Of course not,
June 25, 2008 - 16:44 ET by Clear thinkerrick...
Of course not, dontcha know we are the bad guys. Dodd should be put in an institution.
45 Communist Goals for America http://www.nationmakers.com/com_goals.htm
I just had to do a little drive by....
June 25, 2008 - 14:37 ET by MightyMouth:A LITTLE FELLER IN EAST
TEXAS
Barack Obama, the Presidential Democratic Party candidate, is for
banning all guns in America.
He is considered by those who have dealt
with him as a bit more than just a little self-righteous.
At a recent rural elementary school assembly in East
Texas, he
asked the audience for total quiet. Then, in the silence, he started to
slowly clap his hands once every few seconds, holding the audience in
total silence.
Then he said into the microphone, 'Children, every time I
clap my
hands together, a child in America
dies from gun violence.'
Then, little Richard Earl, with a proud East
Texas drawl, pierced
the quiet and said: ''Well, dumb-ass, stop clapping!
"There are two types of people in this country; those who provide freedom and those who enjoy it." MM says...
OMG! Obama is going to
June 25, 2008 - 15:20 ET by bigtimerOMG!
Obama is going to have a press conference any minute....
....this ought to be illuminating!
"Never murder your opponent when he is committing suicide." ~ W. Wilson
Still no (honest...) explanation
June 25, 2008 - 16:39 ET by sarcasmoFor this graph, folks...
JMR
The tax & spend drug war looks racist in the real world.
Yup, that racist drug war,
June 25, 2008 - 22:24 ET by zfYup, that racist drug war, how dare they lock up black people for selling drugs, aren't they depriving them of economic opportunity? Just ignore that the biggest victims of drug dealers are blacks and other minorities.
And we'll take all that money we will save buy not fighting drugs and use it to simply regulate the, yeah like that will be ******* cheap.
If drugs are so great, why don't you take some? A heroin overdose would work good for you, one less anarchist defending poisioners and death selling thugs in the world.
And you'll respond, I bet, in the neo-liberal fashion, cherry pick extreme examples and quote sterile statistics to prove your "point."
Go take your "cops are racist because they look up too many blacks even if they actually commit the crimes" to Daily Kos where they still buy your race baiting crap.
Awesome post!
June 26, 2008 - 03:31 ET by UnsaneI have asked Sarc on occasion if this means I can open a drug dealership in the middle of my well-patrolled suburb.
You see, according to his theory, I should be able to sell all the drugs I want. The cops would walk up to me wanting to arrest me...but then one of them would say "He's white, leave him alone".
Res tantum valet quantum vendi potest.
And way to direct attention away from
June 26, 2008 - 03:56 ET by sarcasmoThis graph! Which "experts" here & elsewhere have FAILED to explain honestly, and which the TV version of financial "journalists" have universally refused to cover!
JMR
The tax & spend drug war looks racist in the real world.
As an attorney, I personally
June 26, 2008 - 04:22 ET by mostlymoderate<sarc on>
As an attorney, I personally hope they never legalize drugs. 50% of my clients are drug offenses! You would be cutting into my salary. Then there is my uncle Billy that works at the State Prison; he makes almost $100,000 a year. Who is going to pay him that kind of money if the prisons are not filled up? Aunt Cherie is a police officer and I think she might lose her job if there isn't any drug users to lock up. Please don't legalize drugs.<sarc off>
I've begun to think drugs are like abortion/religion
June 26, 2008 - 04:41 ET by sarcasmoAnd that it's extremely difficult to change minds online when they're made up -- only experience works then. But let's forget the endless disputes on the drugwar. Maybe I should have made an exception and erased the sigfile for that post, because I really AM interested in theories about the graph I keep talking about, and whether anyone here can come up with an explanation for it that doesn't look very suspicious to a money-guy like me.
While looking at the graph, ask yourself these questions: "How did America's economy ever survive the period from WW2 all the way to about 2000/2001 without an insurance product as obviously-essential as this new credit default swap 'market' measured in the TRILLIONS? And why do people tend to learn of the suspiciously-huge-ass market from sarcasmo on the internet instead of Cavuto on the idiot-box?"
JMR
The tax & spend drug war looks racist in the real world.
Very interesting article.
June 26, 2008 - 04:50 ET by mostlymoderateVery interesting article. I never even heard of a credit default swap market until now.
Yes, thanks.
June 26, 2008 - 05:28 ET by sarcasmoThe graph is easier for folks to instantly "get" than the article. In truth, I have trouble thinking about numbers that large. A billion is a thousand million, but a TRILLION is a thousand billion. The mind reels. But I know enough financial market history 101 to get suspicious when any picture looks like that damn graph.
Oh, and the "old" (Feb.) 45.5 TRILLION number might be wrong, because this "new" (June) article sez SIXTY TRILLION, but what's $14.5 TRILLION dollars among friends? For comparison purposes, the CIA says that comes to just under 90% of the entire planet's GDP. Watch the next 5 things Cavuto covers on TV. Is any of 'em 1/10th this important?
Another thing that bothers me is that "insiders" seem to both know & tolerate the open secret that Ambac & MBIA debt ratings are dishonest, because "everyone" knows the potential consequences if their own paper were rated honestly since Ambac & MBIA both rate others' paper for a living. IMO it can't last, so I'm for getting the pain over-with as quickly as possible since the taxpayers will no-doubt be on the hook for this one, too, but apparently that's not on the TV media agenda.
JMR
The tax & spend drug war looks racist in the real world.
Stats are stats. Deal with it.
June 26, 2008 - 03:54 ET by sarcasmoAnd mine are right, like it or not. The drugwar isn't just an engine of corruption in law enforcement, it has a "like it or not" (and whiners don't) history of RACISM. Deal with it. It's not going away any more than I am going to Kos like you'd like. Crazy preachers and ancient newsletters are NOT the reason you see the color you see in just about any jail in the country.
JMR
The tax & spend drug war looks racist in the real world.
drug war
June 26, 2008 - 05:36 ET by AgnosticWhile in large I agree that there is a portion of the drug war that is racist I still believe that the overall methods is that of a class war. In as a much that the lower class keeps the middle class paying taxes on programs with marginal success and give them a visible antogonist to distract them from much of the rest of the corruption. While it still looks racist and there is no doubt that racism does exist it seems to me that those who lead this 'war' don't really care about the color of skin but are much more attuned to the story that is created and the $$$.
Heroes
June 25, 2008 - 17:00 ET by JDW58th anniversary of Korean war.
JDW
Remember the Countrywide Six?
Who forgot to write about the advances in Iraq?
If bin Laden is presumed innocent, why not just shoot him over there?
It's nonsense. It makes two
June 25, 2008 - 22:02 ET by zfIt's nonsense. It makes two assumptions: that suburbs are out in the middle of nowhere and getting access to needed services and goods takes hours, and that most Americans are either poor or close to it and price increases no matter how slight or large will drive them over the edge.
The first one is patent nonsense, business go to where people are, they just don't sit far away into the city where people have to go out of their way to access them. Within a few miles of my home for example there is a Super Wal-Mart, a deli, a convienance store, am (evil of course) gas station and two supermarkets.
Second, while higher prices are of course annoying and cause many people to cut their belt on luxuries (the smart ones anyway) most Americans make sure they can afford to spend on their neccessities. In my neighboorhood, people are constantly driving and no one is fussing and whining that they can't afford to live. And the neighboorhood could best be described as lower middle class, certaintly not filthy rich.
And why is moving into cities so bad, anyway? Don't cities need consumers, neighborhoods and people to keep their infrastructure alive too? WOuld the MSM be as disturbed if people were fleeing cities to live in suburbs (which most liberals ignorantly believe are hotbeds of fuddy-duddyness, racism and "close-minded" people anyway.)
ZF
June 25, 2008 - 22:59 ET by RESTLESS 1I seem to recall not too long ago that the media was all atwitter that middle class whites were moving out of the inner cities to the suburbs and leaving all of those poor and minority people to suffer alone. Now, they are going back, and still they bitch.
"This
liberal would be all about socialize -- uh, uh, would be about
basically taking over and the government running all of your companies."-Maxine Waters 2008
Yup,
June 25, 2008 - 23:11 ET by RESTLESS 1White Flight they called it. I know it's wiki, but it rings true.
"This
liberal would be all about socialize -- uh, uh, would be about
basically taking over and the government running all of your companies."-Maxine Waters 2008
Google Blocks Conservative Blog
June 26, 2008 - 00:35 ET by BritcomGoogle has created an advisory that blocks access to The American Spectator site (spectator.org) and labels it an "attack site" via Mozilla's Firefox web browser.
The advisory says:
The blocking page says:
---
Lets fix the Supreme Court for good!
Communist vs. Statist '08
You have got to be kidding
June 26, 2008 - 00:40 ET by bigtimerYou have got to be kidding me!
/sarc off
Brit...I am mad about this...believe me.
How dare they!
"Never murder your opponent when he is committing suicide." ~ W. Wilson
→ SCROTUS to uphold gun ban
June 26, 2008 - 06:35 ET by Cool ArrowMaybe I'm wrong, but SCROTUS will uphold the DC gun ban saying the Second Amendment applies to "the people" rather than a person.
Too cute by more than half, they hightail it out of town to avoid the tar, feathers, and the rail.
LYDSEXICS UNTIE
Thank God, I'm wrong
June 26, 2008 - 09:06 ET by Cool ArrowSCROTUS decided to think right today.
LYDSEXICS UNTIE
foreign policy dictated by using force to control the flow of oi
June 27, 2008 - 16:28 ET by Giles WinterbourneWe have a foreign policy dictated by using force to control the flow of oil. Pre-dates GWOT
"Before the Iraq war started, Anthony H. Cordesman of the Center for Strategic and International Studies said: “Regardless of whether we say so publicly, we will go to war, because Saddam sits at the center of a region with more than 60 percent of all the world's oil reserves.” Unfortunately, he was right.
In fact, the use of military power to protect the flow of oil has been a central tenet of U.S. foreign policy since 1945. That was the year that President Franklin D. Roosevelt promised King Abdul Aziz of Saudi Arabia that the United States would protect the kingdom in return for special access to Saudi oil—a promise that governs U.S. foreign policy today.
This policy was formalized by President Jimmy Carter in 1980 when he announced that the secure flow of oil from the Persian Gulf was in “the vital interests of the United States of America” and that America would use “any means necessary, including military force” to protect those interests from outside
forces. This doctrine was expanded by President Ronald Reagan in 1981 to cover internal threats, and was used by the first President Bush to justify the Gulf War of 1990-91, and provided a key, if unspoken rationale for the second President Bush’s invasion of Iraq in 2003.ii
The Carter/Reagan Doctrine also led to the build up of U.S. forces in the Persian Gulf on a permanent basis and to the establishment of the Rapid Deployment Force and the U.S. Central Command (CENTCOM). The United States now spends over $50 Billion per year (in peacetime) to maintain our readiness to intervene in the Gulf.iii
America has tried to address its oil vulnerability by using our military to protect supply routes and to prop up or install friendly regimes. But as Iraq shows the price is astronomical—$200 Billion and counting. Moreover, it doesn’t work—Iraq is now producing less oil than it did before the invasion. While the reasons behind the Bush administration’s decision to invade Iraq may be complex, can anyone doubt that we would not be there today if Iraq exported
coffee instead of oil?" Tom Z. Collina, Executive Director 20/20 Vision _Oil Dependence and U.S. Foreign Policy:
Real Dangers, Realistic Solutions_ Testimony before the Committee on Foreign Relations Subcommittee on Near Eastern and South Asian AffairsUnited States Senate
"The United States is the largest and most technologically advanced
economy in the world, yet fossil fuels remain the lifeblood of the
American system. The United States is, in fact, the world’s largest
consumer of oil, but it depends on foreign producers to supply most of
its demand. Because energy security is inextricably intertwined with
economic prosperity and national security, oil is one of the primary
factors shaping US foreign and military policies. Indeed, from Iraq to
Iran and Nigeria to Venezuela, oil is omnipresent in the calculations
of American foreign policy. Even the centre-piece of the Bush
Administration’s foreign policy, encouraging democracy in the Middle
East, is being jeopardised in the current environment of rising oil
prices. As the US demand for oil rises, so does America’s exposure to
trouble in the world’s volatile oil-producing regions. Some analysts
argue that all that is needed is more oil production, although that
will only come about with more investment, which requires ever higher
levels of security in unstable parts of the world. Others say that
reducing American dependence on oil would be the single greatest
multiplier of US power in the world." Soeren Kern
HOW THE DEMAND FOR OIL DRIVES AMERICAN FOREIGN POLICY (ARI)
"
The new oil law
gives foreign corporations access to almost every sector of Iraq’s oil
and natural gas industry. This includes service contracts on existing
fields that are already being developed and that are managed and
operated by the Iraqi National Oil Company (INOC). For fields that have
already been discovered, but not yet developed, the proposed law
stipulates that INOC will have to be a partner on these contracts. But
for as-yet-undiscovered fields, neither INOC nor private Iraqi
companies receive preference in new exploration and development.
Foreign companies have full access to these contracts.
The exploration and production contracts give firms exclusive
control of fields for up to 35 years including contracts that guarantee
profits for 25-years. A foreign company, if hired, is not required to
partner with an Iraqi company or reinvest any of its money in the Iraqi
economy. It’s not obligated to hire Iraqi workers train Iraqi workers,
or transfer technology." Antonia Juhasz and Raed Jarrar _Oil Grab in Iraq_
Hugs do not work
July 1, 2008 - 00:08 ET by UnsaneUnfortunately for you, Giles, hugs do not dictate foreign policy. FORCE does.
Until you learn to accept that very basic fact, you will have a lot of growing up to do in foreign policy. And that's before you actually learn anything.
Res tantum valet quantum vendi potest.