For general discussion and debate. Possible talking point: Democrats want to nationalize oil refineries:
House Democrats responded to President's Bush's call for Congress to lift the moratorium on offshore drilling. This was at an on-camera press conference fed back live. Among other things, the Democrats called for the government to own refineries so it could better control the flow of the oil supply.
Is this what will happen next year if Obama is elected and the Democrats retain control of Congress? What will this do to oil and gas prices in the future? Would this be the beginning of the socialism most on the left really want, and therefore the beginning of the end of capitalism in this nation?
From an economic perspective, wouldn't such a move force most American companies to begin relocating their headquarters and manufacturing facilities elsewhere to prevent government takeover in the future?



















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Comments Policy
I keep hoping
June 19, 2008 - 09:08 ET by sarcasmoSome Democrat will suggest allowing refineries to actually be built instead, but so far, nothing...Oh, and the beginning of socialism already happened. It was the Fed's bailout of a firm called "Bear Stearns," and it had nothing to do with dumb refinery-socialism proposals.
JMR
The tax & spend drug war looks racist in the real world.
Sarc...
June 19, 2008 - 09:17 ET by ontheright...do you believe we need to build new refineries? and Nuclear power facilities?
Just curious. Hard to tell from your post.
Yes, and yes.
June 19, 2008 - 09:36 ET by sarcasmoThe government needs to try getting out of the way, so my "yes" is contingent of "we" NOT being the government. They have yet to try letting capitalism work to lower prices, and they're suggesting socialist ownership to fix their failure. Ownership by the government, if tried, will fail just like the public schools & the drugwar have failed when obese government was tried.
I've been pro-nuke forever, and now I'm rooting for the pebble bed reactor design to be mass produced & fit in a normal shipping container. Sadly, it won't be in this country... But a proposal of socialism, while offensive, isn't nearly as offensive as the real socialism of that socialist bailout nobody else seems to call "socialist." At least now they've got the fig-leaf of a couple of low-level arrests.
JMR
The tax & spend drug war looks racist in the real world.
"Oh, and the beginning of
June 19, 2008 - 14:05 ET by ckc1227"Oh, and the beginning of socialism already happened. It was the Fed's
bailout of a firm called "Bear Stearns," and it had nothing to do with
dumb refinery-socialism proposals."
I'm pretty sure it happened long before the Bear Stearns bailout.
Yes. I railed about CitiBank
June 19, 2008 - 14:13 ET by sarcasmoAnd "too big to fail" as socialist nonsense for years. I think I'm a capitalist. Others call me "a nut." Anyway, this latest socialist bailout is only the beginning. When the credit derivative default TRILLIONs finally hit the fan, we'll see the real problem with the Fed trying to print irresponsible financial institutions' way out of deserved fiscal trouble.
JMR
The tax & spend drug war looks racist in the real world.
The GOP has to do something
June 19, 2008 - 09:11 ET by shawn228Cheaper gas or securing our borders, the GOP has to do something to stop Obamas momentum. He now leads in 3 swing states.
Shawn I would be plenty
June 19, 2008 - 09:41 ET by Dan The Man 2Shawn I would be plenty worried if these polls had anything to do with electing a President, but as 2000 and 2004 showed they don't. There is only one poll that counts and that is the one November 4th, 2008. That is the one I will believe.
Nuke em til they glow then shoot em in the dark.
Dan the man
June 19, 2008 - 09:49 ET by shawn228Again 2000 and 2004 the polls had the race too close to call, which is exactly what happenned.
Polls are important, because they how voters are feeling at the Present moment, a year ago we thought Clinton and Guiliani would be the nominees.
Polls also predicted the Dems would take back congress in 06 and McCain would win the GOP nomination.
Its too early to predict the election will turn out, but don't forget, the polls all had McCain ahead by 10 points a few months ago after the whole Reverand Wright thing.
In 2004 the polls were not
June 19, 2008 - 10:11 ET by Dan The Man 2In 2004 the polls were not even close except in your imagination. My point is that it is not worth getting your pantis in a bunch because some poll, likely skewed, says Obama is leading. We still have 5 months ahead and I am confident that Obama will open his trap and give the GOP a present, and he will do this again and again.
Nuke em til they glow then shoot em in the dark.
Yes 04 was too close to call
June 19, 2008 - 10:20 ET by shawn228and it came down to Ohio. Well I'm glad your confident. The GOP lost 2 house seats they owned for over 20 yrs and were desperate to defend. I'm glad your not nervous about the Dem tital wave
Here is a link to a msm poll
and another
Seems pretty close to me.
2004 was not close except
June 19, 2008 - 10:26 ET by bassndude2004 was not close except in the polls. It was the medias way of generating votes for the dems. Shawn, look at the polls of late! They are geared to get the answers they want. Look at the questions, not the answers, to understand. The polls by the MSM in '04 were to set up another challenge to the election, like '00. Thats all they were. The margin of the win was not even close.
Save a SeAL, club a liberal!!
Sorry Bass
June 19, 2008 - 10:34 ET by shawn228I have no idea how you can say the margin of the win was not even close. It all came down to Florida and Gore won in the popular vote.
A few months ago the polls all had McCain winning by double digits, no one on this site complained of the bias polls then.
Gotta go to work, have a good day.
I said the '04 election,
June 19, 2008 - 10:38 ET by bassndudeI said the '04 election, not the '00. Reread
Save a SeAL, club a liberal!!
bassdude
June 19, 2008 - 20:18 ET by shawn228yes you are right, sorry, I was in a hurry to get out the door. 04 was still pretty darn close. Yes the President won in the popular vote, but it all came down to Ohio right?
Dewey Defeats Truman
June 19, 2008 - 19:10 ET by UnsaneRemember, shawn, that spectacular Dewey presidency? How he so handily swept Truman from office in 1948?
By the way, winning the popular vote does not matter. The only thing that matters is the electoral vote. Had The National Tree merely won his "homestate" of TN, the FL controversy would have been 100% academic, something lost on countless Leftists.
Res tantum valet quantum vendi potest.
Hows that?
June 19, 2008 - 14:47 ET by general companyDan: There is only one poll that counts and that is the one November 4th, 2008. That is the one I will believe.
Shawn : Polls are important, because they how voters are feeling at the Present moment, a year ago we thought Clinton and Guiliani would be the nominees.
Shawn: Polls also predicted the Dems would take back congress in 06 and McCain would win the GOP nomination
Did you not understand what Dan had suggested, are you contradicting him or yourself?
So in 06 we new McCain would win the nom, but a year ago we thought it would be Giuliani?
My understanding of what Dan said is that none of the polls are worth the paper or lcd's they are written on, what yours?
"Television is a freak show" Bernie Goldberg
Polls
June 19, 2008 - 20:24 ET by shawn228No general company, the polls in 06 predicted the GOP would lose as much as 20-30 seats in the house.
The polls said McCain would most likely win the nomination in January of this year.
I meant exactly what I said, polls are important, because it lets us know how people are feeling at the moment. People wanted Guiliani over a yr ago, then it shifted to McCain
It is a long, long time
June 19, 2008 - 12:37 ET by Pete Wilsonuntil the Election. Heck, the conventions have not even occured yet. Obama has not been completely vetted yet. Of course, the MSM will not aid in the vetting, but only of the covering of the radical views I suspect he holds. I suspect this because of the company he has kept in the past.
Therefore, I would not be terribly concerned about Obama's lead in the polls in swing states at this time. Many things will change between now and November.
I do agree, however, that the GOP simply has to show some courage on some issues, primarily in the two you cited. Also, McCain has got to stop reading from the Democrat playbook on "obscene profits and salaries of CEOs". I have yet to determine what leval of profit is proper, or non-obscene, or exactly what level of compensation is proper for a CEO. I would suspect that the level of compensation of a CEO is acceptable if the shareholders and board of directors determine that it is.
Cheaper gas and secure boarders from Obama?
June 19, 2008 - 09:50 ET by Dee BunkYou must be nuts. That is complete crazy talk.
Dee
June 19, 2008 - 09:58 ET by shawn228I meant what points the GOP must drive home to stop Obama's momentum, sorry I thought Iwas clear, I will try to express myself in a more accurate fashion next time.
Shawn228, These polls are
June 19, 2008 - 09:59 ET by futbolisgreat1Shawn228,
These polls are meaningless.
1) Polls are not scientific, I don't care what anyone says. From the way that you can ask the question, to the number of people asked, etc, etc....polls are not scientific. Never have and never will be.
2) Polls so far away from the election are meaningless. Summer polls are completly meaningless. People are not paying attention.
3) According to "scientific" polls, in 2000 Bush was suppose to lose. In 2002, Republicans were suppose to lose Congress. In 2004 Bush and Republicans were suppose to lose. We know better, don't we.
Shawn228, don't be so worried right.
By the way, how stupid can Democrats be and anyone that votes for them.
Nationalize industries? Wow, since it worked so well for Cuba, Soviet Union, China, N. Korea, Venezuela.
An Obama Presidency scares the hell out of me.
Republicans and Conservatives, I know McCain is not our ideal candidate, but my goodness, he is infinitly better than Obama.
I truly believe that this election will define America for decades to come. I truly feel, applying my Political Science degree here, that this is a defining moment for America. This will either mark for America or a great success.
What most Americans do not know or understant is how Chicago politics work.
In Chicago left wingers, Liberals have slowly, but surely under the radar, been building power, influence, putting people in the right places. Obama is the culmination of their efforts. If Obama wins, you will see terrorists like William Ayers making decisionn on the education of your kids. You will see individuals like Rev. Wright visiting the White House (like under the Clinton administration) advising the President Obama and this ONLY the tip of the iceberg.
Four years of Obama will destroy America.
Sorry to repeat myself, but I feel that this election is a defining moment for America, much like the 1998 election in Venezuela was a defining moment for Venezuela.
We must defeat Obama! Our children, our country are counting on us.
fut
June 19, 2008 - 10:12 ET by shawn228Nowhere in my post did I say I was going to vote for Obama. The all showed Bush tied with Kerry in 04. Polls almost always predict the winner of an election if it is beyond 5 percentage points.
Polls are not meaningless, because they can determine how people feel at the moment. The GOP was actually ahead in the 06 elections, all the polls showed that, until the whole Mark Foley thing happenned.
And just like the polls predicted, the GOP lost the house. I polls were wrong and they said the Dems would fall about a seat short of taking back the senate, but they took that too. Okay maybe polls aren't always correct:-)
Shawn228, Eh? Don't get
June 19, 2008 - 10:35 ET by futbolisgreat1Shawn228,
Eh? Don't get so defensive. No where did I accuse you of voting for Obama. Don't worry, I know you are a Liberal, but at least you aren't that dumb. :-)
As for the polls, sorry my friend, I studied this in college, in my current job, etc. Polls are meaningless, they are.
think about it this way, I put up an open house for the university I work for, right? 100 people attend, correct? I then put out a survey (poll) to be filled out by the 100 people that attended. I only get back 10 to 15. Are you telling me that I should base any changes that I make to the open house on these 10 to 15 people that replied? Of course not.
We are a nation of 3 million people. And these polls are based on 500 to 3,000 people. Are you telling me that these amount on people, through "scientific" polls can tell what the other 2.98 million are thinking? c'mon, don't fool yourself.
Also, just look at the ridiculous margins of errors on polls....they are pathetic.
Finally, you might want to look at studies done by the Harris Poll CEO who studied well over 87 polling firms around the world, 10 of them in the USA and he was astonished at what he found. That the so called scientific method being used was NOT scientific at all. He also found that out of the 87 polling firms, NONE used the same method or questions for polling. Hmmm...doen't science demand that the same method be used? yes. So much for the "scientific" poll. This is a myth so people fall for silly polls.
Also, in the past, say 40s, 50s, 60s, 70s, no self-respecting media corporation would publicicze a poll if the respond rate was not at least 50% or higher and in many cases 70% or higher was demanded. Today most polls are published with only 20% respondent rate.
Shawn228, in 2000 and 2004 Bush was suppose to lose. Let us not forget how the media claimed that early exist polls in 2004 matched their polls, that Kerry would win the Presidency. Bush won by a large margin in 2004.
These same polls said that Republicans would lose control of Congress in 2002 and 2004, ooops, they were wrong.
So, out of 2000, 2002, 2004 and 2006, the polls only got it right in 2006?
hmmm....Polls were not needed in 2006 to know that Republicans were going to lose control of Congress. I knew that in 2005 without any stupid polls. Long before the Foley scandal.
Not to mention that the Republican party went against hitorical trends in 2002 and 2004. The Party that controls the White House loses control of Congress. That didn't happen to Republicans until 2006.
Don't be such a Liberal (i know you can't help it) and stop basing your life decisions on polls. :-)
"We are a nation of 3
June 19, 2008 - 13:59 ET by ckc1227"We are a nation of 3 million people. And these polls are based on 500
to 3,000 people. Are you telling me that these amount on people,
through "scientific" polls can tell what the other 2.98 million are
thinking? c'mon, don't fool yourself. "
3 million? You might want to do a recount. ;)
Ooops....300 million
June 19, 2008 - 17:25 ET by futbolisgreat1Ooops....300 million people....a little off on my count.
However, my point still stands! Polls are worthless!
These Congressional...
June 19, 2008 - 09:11 ET by ontheright...posers have exposed themselves as idiots, yet again.
Refineries are at the end of the oil supply "flow". Controlling the refineries would only facilitate controlling the supply of gasoline and other petroleum products used directly by the consumer (may be the intent, knowing these criminals).
And even if refineries did somehow control the "flow" of the oil supply; is this what we/USA needs? More beauracy? Better management through larger Government?
Do these boobs believe the American people are brain-dead sheople? This is further proof that we, the LEGAL citizens of the United States, need to rise up and vote these fools out of office before they destroy our economy, future and the country we love.
When will we hear about
June 19, 2008 - 09:14 ET by FastEdthe poor folks in New Orleans, those who don't have any way to get out of the city? Will we see more complaining, like all those who are complaining now? Where's the Government? How come GW didn't see this coming?
There is no sense in being stupid, if you can't prove it! - my dad V
An announcement
June 19, 2008 - 09:19 ET by FoolicanI would like to take this opportunity to extend my congratulations to the five smartest posters on NewsBusters:
Here's to the true thinkers. Keep up the good work, folks!
Surely...
June 19, 2008 - 09:20 ET by ontheright...you jest. Otherwise, I've lost all respect...
I notice that
June 19, 2008 - 09:21 ET by Hero SquadI notice that Foolican isn't on that list.
*****
"People only insist that a debate stop when they are afraid of what might be learned if it continues." - George Will
He just wishes he was :-)
June 19, 2008 - 09:23 ET by shawn228He just wishes he was :-)
Who?
June 19, 2008 - 09:26 ET by MeanderingI don't know who you are talking about.
Fool - you left out 5 people
June 19, 2008 - 09:35 ET by Dee BunkFoolican
Clever Pig
J Frank
Jer
Which Wing
So lets see that would be 5 + 5 which = 10. Hummmmmmm I heard that number somewhere before about liberals claiming there weren't that many regular liberals on here. Hummmmm.
Lol foolican
June 19, 2008 - 09:38 ET by shawn228your sarcasm has backfired on you huh? Now your included in our club. Lol.
Don't associate me with
June 19, 2008 - 09:39 ET by FoolicanDon't associate me with those folks. I don't buy into the liberal mantra. I just wanted to puff up their ego a little bit. Mine doesn't need any more puffing.
Who yanked your chain this
June 19, 2008 - 10:06 ET by balboaWho yanked your chain this morning?
Bal, I think somebody wee-wee'd in Fooly's corn flakes. :-)
June 19, 2008 - 22:32 ET by R D HelmThe truth is insensitive. - Neal Boortz
Oops!!!! I forgot Jason - how could I forget Jason!
June 19, 2008 - 09:40 ET by Dee BunkThat would make 11. Sorry Jason!
I forgot 6 more so that's at least 17 liberals not including
June 19, 2008 - 10:22 ET by Dee Bunkthe one's who just post once in a rare while
Thought Police
Anamericaninnihon
Intellectualhonesty
Biff McCain
Bruzilla
Amby (previously the professor)
I'm sure I'm still forgetting some.
Dee, I'm not sure
June 19, 2008 - 10:43 ET by MassConservDee, I'm not sure ThoughtPolice belongs in that list.
I've always had the impression that he's a libertarian blinded by Trutherism. Like, gone so far East it seems West.
Mass - I consider all leftist libertarians on the liberal list
June 19, 2008 - 10:47 ET by Dee BunkWhichwing is the same. I don't put sarc there because he doesn't hate the military and have total BDS like the leftist ones do.
Point taken.
June 19, 2008 - 10:52 ET by MassConservPoint taken.
Giles is pretty far out
June 19, 2008 - 11:57 ET by general companyGiles is pretty far out there and the angry African
"Television is a freak show" Bernie Goldberg
gc.... Shhh...it has been
June 19, 2008 - 22:41 ET by bigtimergc....
Shhh...it has been nice without aA.
"Never murder your opponent when he is committing suicide." ~ W. Wilson
You are are all forgetting Montana Lyons and, of course, Hater.
June 19, 2008 - 22:50 ET by R D HelmThe latter being the most vile troll to ever crawl the threads of NewsBusters.
The truth is insensitive. - Neal Boortz
RD... Shhhh...! Don't
June 19, 2008 - 22:57 ET by bigtimerRD...
Shhhh...!
Don't wake them...let sleeping dogs lie.
By the way...Little Jimmy and yellerdawg were even worse than hater...you just weren't here yet.
"Never murder your opponent when he is committing suicide." ~ W. Wilson
bt, let's not forget Eugene, AKA tumbler, who hated me with a...
June 19, 2008 - 23:04 ET by R D Helm...flaming purple passion. :-)
The truth is insensitive. - Neal Boortz
RD...LOL... Who can foget
June 19, 2008 - 23:07 ET by bigtimerRD...LOL...
Who can foget the tumbster...he was an equal opportunity hater..you weren't the lone stranger.
"Never murder your opponent when he is committing suicide." ~ W. Wilson
Tumbler's not gone
June 19, 2008 - 23:09 ET by Cool ArrowDidn't he reincarnate as a soccer enthusiast?
LYDSEXICS UNTIE
Riled One... NO. Not
June 19, 2008 - 23:12 ET by bigtimerRiled One...
NO.
Not even close.
"Never murder your opponent when he is committing suicide." ~ W. Wilson
He was not a troll but who could forget......
June 19, 2008 - 23:14 ET by shawn228Sports Politics. No one could put down Paris Hilten or Elizabeth Hasselbeck in his presense.
LOL shawn...you are right,
June 19, 2008 - 23:19 ET by bigtimerLOL shawn...you are right, he wasn't a troll, he just went off the deep end a lot....then there was keith.
What happened to him?
"Never murder your opponent when he is committing suicide." ~ W. Wilson
bt
June 19, 2008 - 23:22 ET by shawn228I'm not sure, maybe the aspiring actor fell off the stage one too many times lol
Speaking of aspiring actors
June 19, 2008 - 23:27 ET by Cool ArrowWhere has Keith been?
LYDSEXICS UNTIE
bt, remember "go pluck a cactus?" :-)
June 19, 2008 - 23:24 ET by R D HelmIf you don't, I'll give you a little hint.
The truth is insensitive. - Neal Boortz
RD...Wow...just got
June 20, 2008 - 00:03 ET by bigtimerRD...
Wow...just got back..cannot believe you saved that one...although I do remember it well...just not the cactus part...wow that guy made a person mad before all the morning coffee was down, so I was pretty hot that day...the day he got kicked of for good was the day I won't forget..which I least expected too...
Now there is always good ol' lillie-pad as I always called the drive by poster, as she was most times, but she did make a few exceptions here and there...which were infuriating in themselves...talk about a leftist witch.
"Never murder your opponent when he is committing suicide." ~ W. Wilson
bt, sorry. Can't talk about rl.
June 20, 2008 - 00:09 ET by R D HelmLOL-NWIM?
:-^)
The truth is insensitive. - Neal Boortz
RD... Sorry...didn't
June 20, 2008 - 00:23 ET by bigtimerRD...
Sorry...didn't know.
Gotcha'.
"Never murder your opponent when he is committing suicide." ~ W. Wilson
Hostile, bitter, angry Leftist posters
June 19, 2008 - 23:12 ET by UnsaneI nominate the hate-filled Tom Custer/Zapata.
Res tantum valet quantum vendi potest.
Uns... LOL...man oh
June 19, 2008 - 23:16 ET by bigtimerUns...
LOL...man oh man...I fogot about him.
Memories....
Of course we could throw in FatesW...
"Never murder your opponent when he is committing suicide." ~ W. Wilson
From the Memory Department
June 19, 2008 - 23:31 ET by UnsaneLet's not forget about MassLiberal!!!
I would nominate throatwobbler if he wasn't so one-track.
Res tantum valet quantum vendi potest.
Good gosh Unsane...I was
June 19, 2008 - 23:40 ET by bigtimerGood gosh Unsane...I was here posting that night he had his final breakdown...it was like nothing I have ever, ever seen...and that was something to behold!
What a bunch of crazies in this world.
What a good memory you have.
"Never murder your opponent when he is committing suicide." ~ W. Wilson
I have a good memory too.....
June 19, 2008 - 23:43 ET by shawn228American Rhetoric Review
shawn, wow, I had forgotten all about ARR.
June 19, 2008 - 23:50 ET by R D HelmLOL-Just shows how forgettable he truly was. :-)
The truth is insensitive. - Neal Boortz
RD.... Very true...but I
June 20, 2008 - 00:18 ET by bigtimerRD....
Very true...but I do wonder whatever happened to florida chad..or vrwc...haven't seen them in ages.
"Never murder your opponent when he is committing suicide." ~ W. Wilson
bt, and don't forget randy.
June 20, 2008 - 19:39 ET by R D HelmI have seen him in here a few times recently, but he doesn't seem to be his old self.
LOL-The lobotomy must have been successful.
The truth is insensitive. - Neal Boortz
or sumting thar RD
June 20, 2008 - 19:43 ET byrhayes has been here but he ain't no daisy, no daisy at all.
Support our Troops
More from the Memory Dept.
June 19, 2008 - 23:49 ET by UnsaneThanks!
I miss whinylillie and the automated drone Jozef F.
joe_conservative with his vitriolic attacks on everything conservative.
Ever notice that when you slap them around enough (especially true in the case of whinylillie), they turn into pathetic drive-by posters??? :-)
Res tantum valet quantum vendi potest.
Unsane, and what about chimp evil? (sp)
June 19, 2008 - 23:40 ET by R D HelmAnd didn't Rog once refer to throaty as "throat pecker?"
The truth is insensitive. - Neal Boortz
Hey if I ever start acting
June 19, 2008 - 23:25 ET by Cureboy675Hey if I ever start acting really "troll"y (Is that a word?), give me a good smack on the head. I first started coming to this site because I loved the basic premise of it (the fact that the media should never be biased, it shouldn't be biased towards conservatives and it should never be biased towards liberals).
And then I started sticking around because sometimes I just love to argue...And I don't think there's anything inherently wrong with arguing, as long as its not mean-spirited and spiteful and just trying to make people mad.
The only time I'll ever start to get nasty with somebody is if they start with the personal attacks, ya know?
"I don't want your 'us or them'..." -- The Cure
I've skinned every one of
June 19, 2008 - 10:03 ET by NL207I've skinned every one of them.
Somehow, I've missed you. That will have to be rectified.
Foolican, Please clean
June 19, 2008 - 10:55 ET by futbolisgreat1Foolican,
Please clean your nose....there is something brown coming out of it.
and your lips are quite brown too.
Please .. whilst I disagree
June 19, 2008 - 11:03 ET by Jack BauerPlease .. whilst I disagree with a lot of what bal says, and many of shawn's musings --
They really don't deserve to be lumped with those other three!
That would be cruel and unusual punishment.
Foolican, equating shawn and bal with...
June 19, 2008 - 22:30 ET by R D Helm...Attention Deficit guy (that's you, AD), The Curator and Syrius is stretching things a bit.
Actually, it is stretching things a lot.
The truth is insensitive. - Neal Boortz
Unfortuantely yes, yes, and
June 19, 2008 - 09:22 ET by motherbeltUnfortuantely yes, yes, and yes.
Obama has said We can't drill our way out of the problem
Apparently he thinks we can control or mandate our way out of it:
....Well, here's the problem. We account for about 3% of the world's oil reserves. We use about 25% of the world's oil. We can't drill our way out of the problem. It's estimated that if we in fact opened up drilling despite the environmental consequences which are irreversible, but let's say we decided You know what, we'll drill in Alaska and we'll drill off the continental shelf, its estimated that it would take five years before you saw any impact, in terms of actual world oil supplies, minimum, I mean, that's optimistic. But even then, the experts estimate maybe you'd see four cents, three cents per gallon reductions. So then one of the questions we have to ask ourselves is, Is it worth it for us to damage the environment permanently that our children are counting on when we could obtain much bigger reductions in gas prices just by increasing fuel efficiency standards on cars to 40 miles per gallon for example.
What happened to the Democrats' "common sense plan to reduce the price of gasoline"?
He says it would take years. He thinks nothing would happen until the oil actually gets to the pumps. How long does he think it will take to have even 25% of cars on the road getting 40 mpg? Does he think THAT will happen overnight???
And this is the guy who wants to run the country?
MB...
June 19, 2008 - 09:37 ET by ontheright...you make some good, almost relevant points (enviromentalist talking points all). However, the effect of us drilling in our own backyard (environmental impact being minimal - as proven when Katrina destroyed several rigs in the Gulf without any remarkable/catastrophic spills at all) will do several things:
1. Improve our domestic economy; increased drilling = more jobs = more money back into the economy = more money for R&D for alternative energy solutions.
2. Lessen the stranglehold OPEC has on global price fixing.
3. Reduce, no matter how slightly, our dependence on foreign produced oil
4. Beat other countries (namely China) to the reserves right off the shores of our own country.
Just my 2 cents.
ontheright....
June 19, 2008 - 10:37 ET by motherbeltontheright....I had edited my comment, and forgot to italicize the section beginning with "Well here;s the problem...."
Those were Obama's environmentalist points, not mine. My thoughts started with "what happened to the Democrats' plan...."
I strongly disagree with all of his contentions.
I agree with you that the process of drilling now would affect things, because the speculation is on "futures." Seeing an increased supply down the road would affect the price now.
It didn't end up clear...I think not doing anything now because it will take 5 years is stupid. Apparently Obama doesn't think that's worth the wait, but waiting 5 years to have a bunch of cars on the road that get 40 mpg is reasonable.
Thank goodness...
June 19, 2008 - 11:18 ET by ontheright...I thought I was losing my mind and watching one of the more articulate and clear thinkers on this site losing his/her's as well.
You are absolutely right, to do nothing while we wait for "new technology" to deliver us from one of the worst environmentalist caused catastrophes of our times is nothing more than continuing the previous 20-30 year Democrat "mandated" status quo.
Thanks for the clarification!
I caught that as well.
June 19, 2008 - 10:05 ET by general companyI caught that as well. Since oil prices have ballooned because of speculative purchases. What does he think will happen when congress kills the no drilling moratorium. The prices will fall, because OPEC wants us to use their oil, they will try to keep the price low enough that our oil companies will not see any profit in drilling.
The bottom line is, most everyone see's the need to lesson our need for oil. But using scare tactics like global warming and other misguided themes just scare the speculators into making all they can make now, and trying to guarantee those profits for as long as possible. Their is no current supply problem that can justify the doubling of gas in the last 2yrs, it is a scary future problem that is driving the price. Why does anyone think that SA upped its production the other day? I think it was because they are afraid we may actually be serious about weaning ourselves off of foreign energy. Obama is extremely thick if he cant see these very simple issues, does he also think we should be buying most every other product from overseas?
This is the beauty of the whole idea imo, once we allow drilling, OPEC will be forced to lower its price to our profit margin or go broke. When we drill, we have more influence on the market price.
One more thing, it also allows us more influence on other countries behavior, right now we have no influence on them, quit the opposite. The higher prices just give Iran and other thug countries more cash to use in evil ways.
In fact I have been waiting for Iran to step up its violence in Iraq because of the extra cash they now have, hope I am wrong though.
"Television is a freak show" Bernie Goldberg
The Problem
June 19, 2008 - 10:24 ET by JDWOPEC decides to increase drilling by 500,000 plus barrels and the news media gets up and dances yet sat in silence at the prospect of 1M barrels out of ANWR. You know all of the details.
My wife is taking my daughter to FL as a graduation present and they are flying on Southwest. Southwest has not incurred the additional costs competition has and isn't passing them on to it's passengers in the way of $50 per bag... Southwest purchased futures in the oil market and has locked into pricing from which to operate for an extended period of time. Many other business which require oil have done the same yet not all came out ahead as did Southwest.
The majority of America wants to start drilling and we are being ignored, again, by the libs in congress. Obama wants change, he is interested in what we are saying yet he will not listen to the fact that Americans want to drill.
I stopped briefly at Gretta last night to see a woman describe the pristine area of ANWR.
Then there are the 68 million acres under lease which these profit monkey oil companies are just sitting on waiting for the prices to go up even further.
This may be the bomb which ultimately explodes in the DNC headquarters.
JDW
Will Ted Kennedy help write the universal health care bill?
Saying that beginning to
June 19, 2008 - 10:45 ET by jdhawkSaying that beginning to drill now will have no effect on the price of gasoline in five years is a true statement. That is if we in fact start drilling now, gasoline prices will not go up.
However, the consumption of oil is moving up about 3% a year worldwide. So, in five years, the world will be consuming 15% more oil than it does now.
If we start drilling now, we may be able to stave off the enevitable price increases brought about by increasing demand chasing too little supply.
If we do nothing - which is what the dimocrat authored and passed Energy Bill did - you can expect gasoline at $8 - 10 dollars a gallon in five years. Oil will sell for $200+.
Note the above math doesn't seem correct. That is oil will only go up 50% from here, but gasoline will double. The reason is that more and more of the oil we use is coming from outside the country. Likewise, more and more of that oil is being refined outside. It now stands at about 15% of domestic supply. When you tack on buying oil at market prices, refining outside the country and hauling it into the country, you get $8 - 10 dollar a gallon gasoline.
Oil
June 19, 2008 - 10:48 ET by Mulligan22Much of what you stated is Obama'a argument against more domestic exploration. It will takes too long it won't drop the price, etc. How does he know this?
I don't know where you get your information but Chuck Shumer wanted the Saudi's to increase their production by 1 million barrels because it would drop the price signifcantly, according to him. On the other hand 1 million barrels from ANWR would only drop it by pennies according to Mr. Shumer. See what I mean , who and what do you believe?
We import 67% of our oil now. How much more is enough 70, 75 80% or more? We aren't going to stop using oil anytime soon. They ain't gonna make a hybrid diesel semi to drop those Pruis' off at the dealership anytime soon.
Why is is ok for Canada to explore off the coast of Maine and we don't? Why is is ok for China to be exploring in the gulf? Vietnam wants an oil rig in the gulf as well. But not us. Think those guys are better at enviromenal issues than a US based company?
We can't drill our way out of this, but we got into it by not drilling is pretty evident. Affordable energy and food are the life blood of this country. Without it our government will be taking in less revenue, which means all those programs they like so much won't be funded. Which means they'll have to raise taxes to try to get the revenue, which will only slow things down more, and the cycle repeats.
Successful Government-run Program?
June 19, 2008 - 09:25 ET by MeanderingIts an oxymoron. If BHO wins and puts the gov. incharge of oil flow, get ready for $10-$20 a gallon gas as he will steal it all for himself. He'll be Hugo Chavez in America. Anytime the government plans a take over its the beginning of the end. When has the government successfully run anything without going into debt or making people wait forever?
Let's review BHO presidential goals:
-Pull troops out of Iraq, leaving Iran and other terrorists to take over and then we are in REAL trouble.
-Have the gov. take over oil companies so no one will have gas or heat for their homes.
-Those that do will be regulated to 65 degrees in their homes all year round, and limited in the miles they drive.
-Gov. run health care where our doctors will be subpar and have to wait 5 years to get a check up.
Did I miss anything? Sounds glorious, if you live in Cuba.
Hugo Chavez
June 19, 2008 - 09:30 ET by ApacheHa, I just posted the same thing before reading your post.
Apache, WELL SAID!!!
June 19, 2008 - 12:40 ET by futbolisgreat1Apache,
WELL SAID!!! Obama is the Hugo Chavez of the United States.
and you are right, Obama loves it. He is not ashamed of it!
I am Venezuelan, I follow Venezuelan politics very closely and the policy similarities of these two individuals is scary!
If Obama wins, this nation will be flushed down the toilet. It will take decades to undo the mess he will create in four years!
McCain can be bad stupid
June 19, 2008 - 09:28 ET by ApacheMcCain can be bad stupid sometimes but at least I think he means well. But Obama is America's Hugo Chavez and I think he knows it and relishes in it.
HOW LONG DO WE HAVE? This is
June 19, 2008 - 09:35 ET by cvgbuckeyeHOW LONG DO WE HAVE?
This is the most interesting thing I've read in a long time. The sad thing about it, you can see it coming. I apologize for it's length ahead of time.
I have always heard about this democracy countdown. It is interesting to see it in print. God help us, not that we deserve it.
How Long Do We Have?
About the time our original thirteen states adopted their new constitution in 1787, Alexander Tyler, a Scottish history professor at the University of Edinburgh , had this to say about the fall of the Athenian Republic some 2,000 years earlier:
"A democracy is always temporary in nature; it simply cannot exist as a permanent form of government."
"A democracy will continue to exist up until the time that voters discover they can vote themselves generous gifts from the public treasury."
"From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates who promise the most benefits from the public treasury, with the result that every democracy will finally collapse due to loose fiscal policy, which is always followed by a dictatorship."
"The average age of the world's greatest civilizations from the beginning of history, has been about 200 years"
"During those 200 years, those nations always progressed through the following sequence:
1. from bondage to spiritual faith;
2. from spiritual faith to great courage;
3. from courage to liberty;
4. from liberty to abundance;
5. from abundance to complacency;
6. from complacency to apathy;
7. from apathy to dependence;
8. from dependence back into bondage"
Professor Joseph Olson of Hemline University School of Law, St. Paul , Minnesota , points out some interesting facts concerning the 2000 Presidential election:
Number of States won by: Democrats: 19 Republicans: 29
Square miles of land won by: Democrats: 580,000 Republicans: 2,427,000
Population of counties won by: Democrats: 127 million Republicans: 143 million
Murder rate per 100,000 residents in counties won by: Democrats: 13.2 Republicans: 2.1
Professor Olson adds: "In aggregate, the map of the territory the Republicans won was mostly the land owned by the taxpaying citizens of this great country. Democrat territory mostly encompassed those citizens living in government-owned tenements and living off various forms of government welfare..." Olson believes the United States is now somewhere between the "complacency and apathy" phase of Professor Tyler's definition of democracy, with some forty percent of the nation's population already having reached the "governmental dependency" phase.
The United States is not
June 19, 2008 - 10:04 ET by FoolicanThe United States is not (supposed to be) a democracy. The United States is (supposed to be) a republic.
Right
June 19, 2008 - 11:18 ET by cvgbuckeyeYou are accurate foolican but you are probably not right. Still, the essay remains valid.
By the way, genius, state the differences between a democracy and a republic (by the way, The US is a Representative Republic modified into a hybrid which brings it closer to a Representative Democracy) There are 6 main diferences. Do you know what they are?
I always like to gain insight from those whom are so much more informed and educated than I.
Further, do you know what western hemisphere nation embodies the form of government that is closest to the US and that the dems have treated like our worst enemy?
Just getting as much knowledge from you as I can since you seem to be "so full of it".
The post above, was
June 19, 2008 - 12:11 ET by general companyThe post above, was enlightening. Especially the break down in demographics
Please answer your own questions, for I am just a humble dumba$$ who just wants to know.
Is it Columbia?
"Television is a freak show" Bernie Goldberg
No
June 20, 2008 - 08:51 ET by cvgbuckeyeNo general; it is Col"O"mbia.
Of course - we all "know" Gore last
June 19, 2008 - 10:05 ET by Ole_SargeAnd in the three states BESIDES Florida, that on election night the MSM reported as "Gore's" were, once the absentee ballots ALL counted - Bush County!
The more I see the Democrat party methods, the more I believe that the Framers of the Consitution were correct, that "LAND OWNERS" voted. Doesn't matter how small a plot, but if you have a vested interest, you do take a different look at things, than if you are a "slave," dependent upon someone else (like all of us) for your life (shelter, food, protection, ect...).
There is a huge difference between the military service member and the person on welfare, although in the strictest sense, both are totally dependent on the Government.
Although, if it were up to me, to be able to vote - citizenship (with proof), completion of "basic education (as in HS diploma or similar) and some sort of proof of "investment" either military service, property ownership, legal employment, and NO criminal convictions.
Starship Troopers
June 19, 2008 - 10:33 ET by IgnatzJFahrquar"All generalizations are false, including this one.” Mark Twain
A GREAT book I loved
June 19, 2008 - 12:58 ET by red_dragon311A GREAT book
I loved the Cruel and Unusual Punishment speech Rico's teacher gave.
A government big enough to give you everything you want, is strong enough to take everything you have.
-Gerald Ford
Starship Troopers
June 19, 2008 - 16:32 ET by UnsaneEven better: the response to the whine that "violence doesn't solve anything."
:-)
Res tantum valet quantum vendi potest.
Very interesting
June 19, 2008 - 10:31 ET by IgnatzJFahrquarEspecially Joe Olson's election facts.
"All generalizations are false, including this one.” Mark Twain
cvg...
June 19, 2008 - 12:20 ET by Clear thinkerExcellent info, thanks.
You may get an idea of "how long do we have" by comparing how many goals in the link below have already been accomplished.
45 Communist Goals for America http://www.nationmakers.com/com_goals.htm
cvgbuckeye, we are somewhere between 7 and 8.
June 19, 2008 - 22:46 ET by R D Helm-And 8 means toast.
Sad, that is.
The truth is insensitive. - Neal Boortz
Atlas is getting ready to shrug........
June 19, 2008 - 09:39 ET by JTPIt wont be pretty
He already has.
June 19, 2008 - 09:51 ET by FoolicanExxon-Mobil has already jumped ship, no doubt Shell and other major companies will follow.
Shell was NEVER an American Company
June 19, 2008 - 10:10 ET by Ole_SargeShell is a Dutch Company. There were several American oil companies that HAVE moved off-shore, but that is as much because the majority ownership is OVERSEAS as our tax structure and governmental regulations over every aspect of their operations.
In fact until the 1950s most oil companies overseas WERE national (owned by the Government) British Petroleum (BP) for example, which in the 1980s bought out several of the Standard Oil Companies (such as SOHIO which spearheaded the Alaskan oil exploration)
Exxon/Moble I think is the LAST oil company that is US based.
Exxon/Moble I think is
June 19, 2008 - 10:58 ET by Jack BauerFor the moment! They've just unloaded ALL their gas stations.
Exxon/Moble I think is
June 19, 2008 - 12:14 ET by general companyExxon/Moble I think is the LAST oil company that is US based.
What about Chevron?
"Television is a freak show" Bernie Goldberg
Libs have dreamed of a
June 19, 2008 - 10:06 ET by mattmLibs have dreamed of a socialist America since the 1910's. They have been patiently and incrementally propagandizing for and implementing their agenda. They have been restricting the free market for decades, and yet they blame capitalism for any problems that may arise. They have put government into every aspect of the marketplace and when things go awry, they hold themselves blameless.
They have successfully used this stealth strategy to convince at least half of Americans that without government actively involved in every aspect of their lives they cannot survive. They are banking on the continued and growing ignorance of the people to attain absolute power to finally implement their socialist dream.
But, what they fail to realize, because the propaganda doesn't include the facts, is that socialism has already proven to be a failure. Somehow, libs haven't learned the lesson of the Cold War: i.e. "communism (which is what socialism is) is a form of insanity which will one day disappear from the earth because it is contrary to human nature." But, as Reagan went on to say, “I wonder how much more misery it will cause before it disappears.”
How is nationalizing the refineries going to solve anything?
June 19, 2008 - 10:22 ET by SGriffisRefing and delivery isn't the problem (other than the fact that we need to upgrade the refineries we have and build more away from hurricane prone areas). How will nationalizing them help when we will still be buying our crude on the global market as we do now?
We need to remove the moratorium on drilling and expand drilling off shore and in ANWR. Drill Here, Drill Now, Pay Less
Socialism is a dictatorship by committee. That's why the Soviet Union's 5-Year Plans were such failures.
Big Brother
June 19, 2008 - 10:44 ET by NorthCoasterBig Brother will soon decide what, where, why, when we do everything and with whom we do it.
Only in America with the DNC!
The founding fathers must be rolling in their graves. Anyone for a tea party?
And now, today's Shrub
June 19, 2008 - 10:31 ET by Roger the ShrubberAnd now, today's Shrub Report®:
Happy Juneteenth, everybody!
Sue away, boys. Sue away!
So, the bringer of hope and change is surrounding himself with Clinton retreads?
The Not-Ready-For-Prime-Time-Player shows us, once again, he is not ready…, well, you know what I mean. Plus, this is not the half-brother he has known for 40 years.
Uh-oh, Al. Prepare to grab those ankles.
Speaking of ankles, a 6th foot (ankle included!) has washed ashore in Canada…
Pennsylvania's teamster thug governor watches his bid to sell the PA turnpike lose in the state House by a razor thin margin of 185-12.
Mugabe unveils his re-election strategy.
The slippery slope?
It's was 32 years ago today that one of the greatest albums in rock and roll was released. I got a fever!....
Today's Religion of Peace Update.
In Pittsburgh, mass transit has been a black hole, swallowing up tax dollars like Sally Struthers does Zingers, so, like good liberals, what is their solution? This.
First, no free speech, now this? Wow, Canada.
Wha? It is now illegal to fire illegals?
The Picture of the Day.
On this date in 1982, God's Banker was found hanging from a bridge in London. Yes, it was the same guy from Godfather III…
And, finally, experts react to Bush's call for more drilling…
Update on the Update
June 19, 2008 - 10:44 ET by dboLock your doors Denmark. It looks like the religion of peace is going to be on the rampage later today.
http://www.macleans....
Amazing, ain't it?
June 19, 2008 - 11:48 ET by Roger the ShrubberAmazing, ain't it?
A unhealthy dose of sarcasm
June 19, 2008 - 16:37 ET by UnsaneWait, wait, wait. Maclean's doesn't know what the hell it is talking about! According to Foreign Affairs, Denmark is a peaceable kingdom that EVERY nation, especially the United States, should be emulating!!!
Res tantum valet quantum vendi potest.
My favorite Maddy Dimbright video
June 19, 2008 - 11:18 ET by IgnatzJFahrquarBy David Zuker.
It still makes me roll.
http://www.youtube.c...
Just put B Hussein in Maddy's place and it still works today.
"All generalizations are false, including this one.” Mark Twain
IF; heres a BRAVE new year h/t David Zucker
June 19, 2008 - 14:11 ET by upcountrywaterObama gets his taxes
Liberals62%
IranianUranium
Rog, I hope Chessani puts Murtha under the poor house.
June 19, 2008 - 22:41 ET by R D HelmThe truth is insensitive. - Neal Boortz
So do I Rog... I see in
June 19, 2008 - 22:53 ET by bigtimerSo do I Rog...
I see in the article that they say it has hard to sue a sitting congressman...well heck, Boehner just finally won the case against McDermitt not long ago...it can be done..
I hope he does not give up. I have been so infuriated by the way the msm has not reported on any of this as time has gone on..let alone the repubs not demanding an apology to our military all of this time from Murtha.
"Never murder your opponent when he is committing suicide." ~ W. Wilson
Talk about a strawman that has nothing to do with the problem...
June 19, 2008 - 10:32 ET by c5thenThe 30 year old Refineries are doing a Yoeman's job in keeping up with our 20% increase in demand while not getting any help thanks to the libs and the enviro-whackos.
What we need is more options for them to buy their crude oil from domestic sources rather then have to purchase from foreign sources.
If the Federal Government actually owned and controlled the refineries, they would be run like the BLM or ICE...80% overhead and 10% for operations (the remaining 10% would be mysteriously missing).
The day that "politician" became a career choice is the day we started losing the Republic. Let's get it back! Alan Keyes '08.
Susan Estrich on the "sick liberal" (conservative) Judge
June 19, 2008 - 10:37 ET by sarcasmoShe makes some good points, especially the point everyone but AK's wife missed about the LA Times' irresponsible behavior. If I were among the 150 jurors whose time was wasted by their sitting on the story needlessly, I'd be asking around to shysters about a class action case against 'em. Anyway, Susan makes an interesting point at the end about media bias, too. I'm not 100% with her, but I like her anyway.
JMR
The tax & spend drug war looks racist in the real world.
Barack Obama, President of the People's Democratic Party
June 19, 2008 - 10:47 ET by CTIt's absolutely amazing, America won the Cold War at the cost of immeasurable blood and treasure against Communist totalitarianism only to surrender it to the Marxist Democratic Party of Change. Two hundred thirty two years of freedom cast away for a smooth talker that sold out his grandmother.
I called Hinchey's office
June 19, 2008 - 10:48 ET by sam.i.amI called Hinchey's office earlier today, I was so pissed. And I live in Kentucky!!
These damned Marxist bastards will NOT take over this country.
Have we reached the point where Marxist saber-rattling is tolerated in this country????
These thug bastards need to be voted out, or grab the pitchforks!! Let's roll!!
Pitchforks? I think a rope
June 19, 2008 - 11:03 ET by bassndudePitchforks? I think a rope and a tree would work better.
Save a SeAL, club a liberal!!
bass...
June 19, 2008 - 11:57 ET by ontheright...be very careful, that could be misconstrued as un "PC" and even KKKish.
You are playing into Rev. Wright's & the Obama's hands....</sarc off>
pc?
June 19, 2008 - 20:29 ET by ort777I don't see anything but white here. Is this going to be banned now that pc is taking over?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nnOWn6r9ceM
"Is this what will happen
June 19, 2008 - 11:01 ET by misterbee241"Is this what will happen next year if Obama is elected and the Democrats retain control of Congress?"
I seriously am convinced, if Obama is elected and we have a socialist democrat majority in Congress, not only will the oil industry and the medical community be nationalized and the Electoral College abolished, but it will be the final nail in the coffin of what used to be a free republic. The America of our fathers will fade into history. The experiment didnt fail, the democrats killed it.
I said I was not going to support McCain because I was not going to vote for the lesser of two evils. But the more I see the socialist democrats opening their mouths about what they really want, I'm in McCain's corner. I dont believe the damage McCain MIGHT do to this country is anywhere near the real damage Obama and the socialist democrats WILL do if they have a free hand. The socialist democrats are finally bold enough to come out of the closet and say they really want government control of everything. The next step is government ownership of everything, and that's communism. For over 40 years I've been convinced there isnt much difference between a liberal democrat and a communist.
There is none so blind as they that won’t see. Jonathan Swift 1667-1745
Stand by, folks!
June 19, 2008 - 11:06 ET by OldSailor88All of this.....is heading south. Guess where it ends?
You got it. The land of FEMA trailers.
Postatem obscuri lateris nescitis
Do you think...
June 19, 2008 - 12:06 ET by ontheright...the MSM will ever connect the dots and attribute the unusually bad Midwest flooding to the extraordinary snowfall in those regions and further north?
Or, will they find some contorted way to blame it all on "AGW"?
Only time will tell...of course I'm joking - the MSM would never put 2 and 2 together.
Survey
June 19, 2008 - 11:08 ET by DontFeedTheTrollsA short survey here you might want to fill out.
http://www.teaminhof...
Weblink not working.
D
Keep the ILLEGALS out, join NumbersUSA to send free faxes to your reps.
Nuclear Power
June 19, 2008 - 11:23 ET by OldSailor88I was having a discussion the other day, and I learned that the civilian world is ingnorant of a very important statistic. The United States Navy has been operating nuclear reactors safely for 60 years. Don't hear about that in the news now, do you? My civilian friends had no idea. You know why? Because there's nothing to report. Nothing has happened for 60 years. Amazing isn't it?
Postatem obscuri lateris nescitis
There have been a few big
June 19, 2008 - 13:02 ET by Dan The Man 2There have been a few big problems like subs sinking, not on purpose, but no real reactor problems. And those were in the infancy related to design. I would like to see nuke power.
Nuke em til they glow then shoot em in the dark.
Keep it in the dark!!!
June 19, 2008 - 16:40 ET by UnsaneIt will never be covered or see the light of day. We can't let the American public know of this. It might give people the idea that not only can nuclear power be done safely, BUT there is ALSO a pool of knowledge generated from 60 years of nuclear know how - a pool of knowledge with a perfect safety record!
Res tantum valet quantum vendi potest.
Surprise, surprise!
June 19, 2008 - 11:12 ET by motherbeltObama has decided to opt out of public financing for the general election! Any guesses why?
Those Wascally Wepublicans of course!!
....John McCain’s campaign and the Republican National Committee are fueled
by contributions from Washington lobbyists and special interest PACs.
And we’ve already seen that he’s not going to stop the smears and
attacks from his allies running so-called 527 groups, who will spend
millions and millions of dollars in unlimited donations."
"so-called" 527 groups???????
Back in November, he told Common Cause:
If I am the Democratic nominee, I will aggressively pursue an agreement
with the Republican nominee to preserve a publicly financed general
election."
According to the McCain, campaign, they are still waiting to hear from him.....
Hi MB
June 19, 2008 - 11:14 ET by Dee BunkThere is a thread on this. I'm not sure why it didn't appear in the window thing.
I guess I needed a
June 19, 2008 - 11:44 ET by motherbeltI guess I needed a "refresh." It wasn't showing when I posted, but it's there now..
Like just about eveything
June 19, 2008 - 11:20 ET by Jack BauerLike just about eveything Barack Obama says, this makes no sense at best, and is mendacious nonsense at worst.
Did you just tear a page
June 19, 2008 - 11:36 ET by Roger the ShrubberDid you just tear a page from your "Word-a-Day" calendar?
Ha ha shrubbster. I got
June 19, 2008 - 12:08 ET by Jack BauerHa ha shrubbster.
I got the liberal version: Word-a-Week calendar.
Next week's WORD is CHANGE.
Jack, I beg you,
June 19, 2008 - 12:14 ET by Clear thinkerJack, I beg you, please not THAT word.
I am so sick of hearing that word.
45 Communist Goals for America http://www.nationmakers.com/com_goals.htm
In only a few more days it
June 19, 2008 - 12:37 ET by Roger the ShrubberIn only a few more days it will change, CT.
To HOPE!!!!
Rog... You used the OTHER
June 19, 2008 - 12:42 ET by Clear thinkerRog...
You used the OTHER word I can't stand, and you snuck in the first word I can't stand.
I should punch you in the nose for that!
(Just kidding about the nose punch.)
45 Communist Goals for America http://www.nationmakers.com/com_goals.htm
Hey Ct... At least he
June 19, 2008 - 16:55 ET by bigtimerHey Ct...
At least he didn't say "my friend"...
"Never murder your opponent when he is committing suicide." ~ W. Wilson
bt... And I HOPE he
June 19, 2008 - 19:32 ET by Clear thinkerbt...
And I HOPE he doesn't CHANGE his post by mentioning what you did..
Oh my God, Obama's taken over my mind!!!
45 Communist Goals for America http://www.nationmakers.com/com_goals.htm
Well Ct... We're all foot
June 19, 2008 - 19:37 ET by bigtimerWell Ct...
We're all foot soldiers here...one way or the other.
...LOL...
I had to throw that in...at least he quit using that phrase for now anyway.
"Never murder your opponent when he is committing suicide." ~ W. Wilson
jack, work a week can be fun
June 19, 2008 - 14:22 ET by upcountrywatersponge bob and chinese google
Liberals62%
IranianUranium
Uh, oh, time to adjust
June 19, 2008 - 11:44 ET by Roger the ShrubberUh, oh, time to adjust those tin-foil hats...
The last line sums it up succinctly: The article also cites Congressman Dennis Kucinich, D-Ohio, as saying [Pelosi's] decision was due to AIPAC.
All whines aside...
June 19, 2008 - 12:18 ET by sarcasmoHere's the original article, and it does seem to be AIPAC (which has repeatedly spied on the USA, but it's "anti-semitic" for me to dare to say so...) that influenced Nancy, like it or not, so once again, Ron Paul was/is right...
JMR
The tax & spend drug war looks racist in the real world.
Sorry, Paco. "Seems" is a
June 19, 2008 - 12:35 ET by Roger the ShrubberSorry, Paco. "Seems" is a funny word.
To appear to one's own opinion or mind.
I guess when you have to relying on the word of The Nation to prop up your boy, those straws you are grasping for must be mighty thin.
How predictable for you to run to your Lord and Master's defense. Whoops. I mean FORMER Lord and Master, if we are to believe your more recent statements. I guess you are flexible when it comes to defending your Saviour. How cute.
Allow me to predict your next predictable response, which will surely involved chest-thumping and the word "whiner" used at least once.
But, by all means, don't let me disrupt your little fantasy world.
So wait a minute...Let's focus on facts for once.
June 19, 2008 - 12:41 ET by sarcasmoNancy Pelosi didn't make that claim regarding AIPAC?? Hallucination has clearly reached new heights... You might want to check the mushrooms on that pizza. And, as I keep asking, how is telling the truth about an influential lobby anti semitic? Just crickets so far...
JMR
The tax & spend drug war looks racist in the real world.
Facts?
June 19, 2008 - 13:42 ET by Roger the ShrubberWhere does the article actually quote anything Pelosi actually said? All it does is reprint Paul's claims. It is full of "implies" and "allegations".
Unless, of course, I am not wearing my special secret Ronulan secret decoder spectacles, where the actual meaning of the article is divined to only the annointed ones.
The only facts that can be gleaned from this article are these (unless you are blessed with the holy lenses, of course):
1. Ron Paul is a former Republican presidential contender who formally removed himself from the party’s nomination race last week
2. Ron Paul and Dennis Kucinich are on the same page. And The Nation. Now THAT's good company.
I guess you could also add your daily "anti-Libertarian bias" belly-aching to the list of things you are wrong about, after seeing this little piece of fluff.
Uh, like it or not
June 19, 2008 - 13:53 ET by sarcasmoHe's saying what she said in the Washington Post about why she did it. Do you deny Pelosi would have said that was her reason for removing the provision? Both Paul & Kucinich seem to think she did it for the part-time spies & part-time lobbyists at AIPAC, and I don't see why they'd both independently come up with the same lie about it. As for the fact of antilibertarian bias, your opinion means nothing because you've provided no disproof.
JMR
The tax & spend drug war looks racist in the real world.
Please post the Washington
June 19, 2008 - 15:09 ET by Roger the ShrubberPlease post the Washington Post piece where Pelosi said this.
Why didn't Newsmax take the effort to do so, and why haven't you, to back yourself up and not look a fool confusing "hearsay" with "fact". You have a story that appears in numerous places on the internet, all referencing the same two sources (Asia Times and The Nation). This is how questionably-true stories become fact. Plus, these links, in almost all instances, uses the word "CLAIM" in the title.
Why would Pelosi help out AIPAC? and what proof do you have that your Lord and Master and Kucinich came to this conclusion "independently"?
Man, that's ALOT of assuming.
Now, since you seem to be full of conspiracy theries today, if this IS true, ask yourself why Pelosi succumbed to the will of the dreeded Jooos (and various other members of Congress)? What dirt do they have on her? And why can't We have this dirt???
Foreign Policy serves up lots of bitterly cold water
June 19, 2008 - 16:48 ET by UnsaneLet's see if Sarc has the guts to answer the question I posted to him here on this issue. For those who think that AIPAC is an all-powerful lobby, the latest edition of "Foreign Policy" pours tons of very cold water on that idea.
But as the mag is called "Foreign Policy", it is totally unlikely ANY Libertarian will DARE pick up a copy without breaking out in hives...
Res tantum valet quantum vendi potest.
uh-oh...
June 19, 2008 - 18:55 ET by Roger the ShrubberDas Paulbot's Lord and Saviour was just on Glen Beck. I thought there was an anti-libertarian, anti-rEVOLution, anti-FREEDOM! bias against the greatest Air Force flight surgeon there ever was?
I wonder if that will come up at Sarky's weekly meeting/pot luck?
Gee Roger.....sarc was really on a tear......
June 19, 2008 - 19:07 ET by BEGRUNTtoday huh? Really hit a nerve I think.
"If a man does his best, what else is there"?
General George S. Patton Jr.
For someone who has devoted
June 19, 2008 - 20:06 ET by Roger the ShrubberFor someone who has devoted time and effort on this website to disavow his Paulbot status, Sarky sure was all over the Ron Paul story like he would be a Hooters waitress (unresponsive in his van, of course)...
I guess that shrine in his basement hasn't been completely dismantled. That Ron Paul autographed 8x10 Liberty Photo must still be under his pillow.
BTW, His Paulness was also on MSNBC this morning. Damn, that anti-libertarian bias strikes again.
The USAF and the Reactionary God
June 19, 2008 - 19:16 ET by UnsaneYeah, I wonder how Paul feels about serving in an unconstitutional branch of service? I don't recall seeing where in the Constitution an Air Force is mandated or called for.
Res tantum valet quantum vendi potest.
They're ships of the air, if anything
June 19, 2008 - 19:25 ET by sarcasmoAnd "The united States shall maintain a Navy." It's an accident of history the Air Force was first part of the army, as planes truly resemble ships for Constitutional purposes, IMO. And if Paul's really "isolationist" then how come the vote for use of force in Afghanistan? (Cue to call names instead of thinking, again...)
JMR
The tax & spend drug war looks racist in the real world.
Planes fly, ships sail on water...
June 19, 2008 - 19:37 ET by UnsaneUm, planes and ships work completely differently. But in either case, both you and Paul should be working to repeal the National Security Act of 1947 as unconstitutional, if you are true to your beliefs. (Watch sarc call that "name-callling".)
Yeah, Paul decided to call for issuing Letters of Marque, which I am sure worked great in the 18th Century...which we are no longer in. And for some reason, he seems to be supremely bothered by U.S. involvement in other pertinent areas in the War on Terror.
Qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum.
Last word sarc? 45
June 19, 2008 - 19:41 ET by Clear thinkerLast word sarc?
45 Communist Goals for America http://www.nationmakers.com/com_goals.htm
Uns,
June 19, 2008 - 19:46 ET by BlondeI believe the full term was a "Letter of Marque & Reprisal". And the concept is not quite so insane....there was a very good novel, I believe by James Huston, that addressed the issue.
Plot line was that a President, when faced with an idiot Congress (go figure) that wouldn't authorize going after a nest of terrorists via regular military means, circumvented the idjits with a LOM&R.
Good reading. And a potential tactical move, given the do-nothingness we now have warming the seats in Congress.
BTW, many of our legal concepts, as well as alot of the terms we use in day-to-day language (son of a gun) hark back to classical British seafaring.
I know you're Air Force, but have you ever read Patrick Davis' series, which begins with "Master & Commander"? Great movie, BTW....a composite of several of Davis' books, but one of the best adaptations of a novel(s) I've ever seen.
David Gregory, do you know which damn network you lie for? ~ Uncle Jimbo, @Blackfive
Balance of Power
June 19, 2008 - 20:24 ET by UnsaneBalance of Power by the Air Force-hating James W. Huston. I read that back in 1999. That is the book you reference.
Res tantum valet quantum vendi potest.
OK, Uns,
June 19, 2008 - 20:32 ET by BlondeI read ALOT of technotrash...but I did find Huston's premise to be rather interesting.
He hates the AF? I didn't quite remember that.
However, the point remains, there are more ways to skin the Congress than the obvious. And I wish GWB would get around to it, sooner, rather than later.
David Gregory, do you know which damn network you lie for? ~ Uncle Jimbo, @Blackfive
James W. Huston
June 19, 2008 - 22:30 ET by UnsaneIf you read the rest of Huston's books, you will see his hatred for the Air Force loom large.
Res tantum valet quantum vendi potest.
Yet another damn conspiracy theory
June 19, 2008 - 19:40 ET by UnsaneYet ANOTHER weak organization for you to ascribe overwhelming power to. Tell me something: if AIPAC is as ALL-POWERFUL as you and your Reactionary God say it is, why does Saudi Arabia fly E-3s and F-15s? Why isn't Jonathan Pollard a free man? Why is our embassy in Israel found in Tel Aviv and NOT Jerusalem, in spite of both Clinton and Bush having the power by law to move the embassy to Jerusalem?
Res tantum valet quantum vendi potest.
Roger.....Paulnut shoots his insane mouth off again.
June 19, 2008 - 12:25 ET by BEGRUNTI never understood the allure of this moron, and his tin hat Paulnuts. He is truely deranged.....blame those evil joooooos for everything wrong in the world. He just joins the list of anti semites in history, great way to appeal to the voters, huh?
"If a man does his best, what else is there"?
General George S. Patton Jr.
What's anti-semitic
June 19, 2008 - 12:28 ET by sarcasmoAbout telling the truth? Was he somehow lying??? If AIPAC, an influential lobby that repeatedly gets away with spying on the USA, did it, why whine about Paul telling the truth about why Pelosi said she did what she did? They're influential. Telling the truth about that FACT isn't a hate-crime. I don't get all the name-calling & whining as a substitute for debate.
JMR
The tax & spend drug war looks racist in the real world.
Sarc....I really dont care how you put it....
June 19, 2008 - 12:41 ET by BEGRUNTthe man is a nut. ALL of our allies at one time or another has "spied" on us. If we allow Israel to fall, that will be the end of the Middle East, gas prices at $20 a gallon. They are our only solid support in the region. When I was in the Air Force, I talked to an Israeli Colonel, he said, we have to win all the time, they only have to win ONCE. I know you love Paul, thats your choice, I happen to think he is a dangerous nut, and that is my choice.
"If a man does his best, what else is there"?
General George S. Patton Jr.
Name calling? 100%.
June 19, 2008 - 12:44 ET by sarcasmoProof of anti-semitism? Goose-egg. How does it feel to fail so miserably to prove what you claimed?? "Nut" is a matter of opinion, but your original accusation, like it or not, remains BS, and you just got called on it. This isn't about love for Paul, it's about liking the truth, even when it's inconvenient.
JMR
The tax & spend drug war looks racist in the real world.
Call it what you want sarc........
June 19, 2008 - 12:48 ET by BEGRUNTyour "truth" and mine are different. I dont have the time or patience to re-cite all of the insane comments made by your mentor. I explained my reasons in my prior post, about spying, you dont like the response....sorry, but that is my opinion.....
"If a man does his best, what else is there"?
General George S. Patton Jr.
I call it BS
June 19, 2008 - 12:52 ET by sarcasmoBecause you have not proved your allegation, and your previous post didn't even mention, much less excuse, spying on the USA, which cost us Billions of dollars from what I've read. And he's not in any way my "mentor," any more than McCain's your mentor. I just have to constantly truthsquad the whiner faction around here, but I'm gettin' good at it. Because it's easy.
JMR
The tax & spend drug war looks racist in the real world.
Oh I see, all the anti-Israel rants he's been on....
June 19, 2008 - 12:57 ET by BEGRUNTno, not one hint of anti semitism......give me a friggin break.
"If a man does his best, what else is there"?
General George S. Patton Jr.
Any bets?...
June 19, 2008 - 13:00 ET by Clear thinkerHow much does someone want to bet that the USA spies on Israel? And every other nation on earth.
45 Communist Goals for America http://www.nationmakers.com/com_goals.htm
So that excuses it?
June 19, 2008 - 13:03 ET by sarcasmoFun. I suppose it excuses spying for China & the Clintons, too.
JMR
The tax & spend drug war looks racist in the real world.
You really are off your
June 19, 2008 - 13:06 ET by Clear thinkerYou really are off your rocker.
I go looking for a bet and you want "excuses".
45 Communist Goals for America http://www.nationmakers.com/com_goals.htm
No, you try to make excuses like a 5 year old
June 19, 2008 - 13:08 ET by sarcasmoSo I consider you a 5 year old, because it's the same argument style. I don't care about bets, I'm focused on facts, because in this case they're on my side. Hence the 5 year old style "argument" from you.
JMR
The tax & spend drug war looks racist in the real world.
You really are off your rocker.
June 19, 2008 - 13:11 ET by Clear thinker45 Communist Goals for America http://www.nationmakers.com/com_goals.htm
Now there's
June 19, 2008 - 13:14 ET by sarcasmoA cojent rejoinder. I'm floored by your 5 year old argument style...
JMR
The tax & spend drug war looks racist in the real world.
I once had dog just like you...
June 19, 2008 - 13:19 ET by Clear thinkerIt always had to have the last word and bark just one more time.
45 Communist Goals for America http://www.nationmakers.com/com_goals.htm
No,
June 19, 2008 - 13:01 ET by sarcasmoGive me some friggin' proof. You can't. We both know it.
JMR
The tax & spend drug war looks racist in the real world.
You can't prove that we don't.
June 19, 2008 - 13:04 ET by Clear thinker45 Communist Goals for America http://www.nationmakers.com/com_goals.htm
Don't what?
June 19, 2008 - 13:10 ET by sarcasmoYou're not making sense here. I'm talking about others spying on the USA despite massive military subsidies, and you're making the "he did it too!!" excuses of a 5 year old, as usual.
JMR
The tax & spend drug war looks racist in the real world.
See above... June 19,
June 19, 2008 - 13:34 ET by Clear thinkerSee above... June 19, 2008 - 14:19 ET by Clear thinker
45 Communist Goals for America http://www.nationmakers.com/com_goals.htm
It's still the "argument" of a 5 year old, like it or not.
June 19, 2008 - 13:36 ET by sarcasmo"He did it too!!" I stand by all my words.
JMR
The tax & spend drug war looks racist in the real world.
I knew you would take the
June 19, 2008 - 13:39 ET by Clear thinkerI knew you would take the bait.
45 Communist Goals for America http://www.nationmakers.com/com_goals.htm
"truthsquad".....hmmmm, just like our Paris Hilton dust up?
June 19, 2008 - 13:42 ET by BEGRUNTyou made all sorts of claims, and you said you "nailed it" then, even after I TOLD YOU, I was the one that wrote the policies regarding inmates in L.A. County.......ya you "nailed" that one too. Please!!
"If a man does his best, what else is there"?
General George S. Patton Jr.
I have no idea what you're talking about
June 19, 2008 - 13:45 ET by sarcasmoAnd I'm not interested in Paris Hilton, but believe what you want. I stand by all my words, you've been refuted because you've provided zero, that's goose-egg, proof of your accusation of anti-semitism, because we both know all he did was (gasp) tell the truth.
JMR
The tax & spend drug war looks racist in the real world.
You sure were interested at the time.........
June 19, 2008 - 13:58 ET by BEGRUNTAnd I have already responded to your claim......."I see, all the Anti Israel rants" he's been on, nope not one hint of anti semitism......Theres your answer AGAIN!!
"If a man does his best, what else is there"?
General George S. Patton Jr.
Sarc, Ron Paul is a nut,
June 19, 2008 - 12:53 ET by futbolisgreat1Sarc,
Ron Paul is a nut, he truly is. No, and nut is not a matter of opinion. The Truth is not relative.
He is really old school Republican, an isolatianist who decries WWI, WWII, Korean War, etc.
He constantly blames the USA for 9/11 and he was put in his place when he was told that 9/11 was not the fault of the USA, but the fault of the terrorists. I vividly remember laughing out loud at the stupidity of Ron Paul.
He is a deranged fool that needs to leave Congress.
He is a, "Blame America First Republican" not too many around, but they can be found.
He, like so many Liberals, constantly blames Israel for the Middle East problems.
Honestly Sarc, I know you are WAY smarter than believing Ron Paul is not a nut case.
I would urge you to follow your own advice, like the truth Sarc, even if it's inconvenient.
The Truth, "Ron Paul is a deranged human being...." This is an inconvienient truth to a few out there.
You're not telling the truth, Fut
June 19, 2008 - 12:59 ET by sarcasmoAbout Paul and 9/11, and you know it. Read or view the Rudy's Reading List YouTubes, featuring this guy. But my main point isn't to refute "nut" (I think McCain's "a nut" too, and you can't refute me on that any more than I can refute you on your name-calling with "nut"). What I'm refuting instead is the false charge of anti-semitism for just telling the truth about AIPAC, which like it or not has spied repeatedly on the USA. I nailed that one good, I'll humbly admit. :)
JMR
The tax & spend drug war looks racist in the real world.
Sarc, Oh, agreed, with
June 19, 2008 - 13:10 ET by futbolisgreat1Sarc,
Oh, agreed, with Israel. Israel spied on the USA, that's a fact. No doubts about it. This was all over the news last year, wasn't it?
But I can assure you that the USA has spied on Israel, France, Germany, England, etc. This is common practice even amongst allies.
And don't ask me to prove it, I'll have to kill you after I tell you how I know. :-)
However, Ron Paul did say in a debate that the reason that 9/11 happened was do to American policy regarding the Middle East. That we didn't bother to understand the culture and that we were more worried about defending Israel. Not verbatum Ron Paul's words, but that's what he said.
I do not remember who replied to his insane inuendo, but I remember that I laughed at his comment. I think it was Huckabee, I think.
I am unsure if Ron Paul is anti-semetic, but the man does walk a gray area there. He is not like Jimmy Carter who obviously hates the Jews, or at least Israel.
Oh, don't worry about McCain, I think in some things the man is a nut, I just think Obama, Ron Paul, Kerry, Kennedy, etc are all nuts 100% of the time. :-)
But Sarc, Ron Paul comes accross as a "way other there..." politician.
I could not believe him OR Pat Bucchanan when I heard that they both disagreed with USA involvment in WWI, WWII....my jaw just dropped!
Ron Paul and Pat are coo-coos! 98% of the time :-)
Mcain, he is coo-coos 25% of the time. :-)
Democrats they are lunatics 100% of the time. :-)
I'll say it again.
June 19, 2008 - 13:12 ET by sarcasmoI think the antilibertarian hate and name calling we all saw, combined with media bias NB did a horrible job of busting, has given us a candidate who won't win while rejecting the only Republican who could. When McCain loses and I say "I told you so!" people here are going to be mad at me, but I don't care.
JMR
The tax & spend drug war looks racist in the real world.
Sarc, Why do so many
June 19, 2008 - 13:22 ET by futbolisgreat1Sarc,
Why do so many Libetarians like Ron Paul so much? Honest question, not trying to start a fight or anything, just curious.
I am not an individual to believe the media, Sarc.
I heard Ron Paul's words and from my own personal experience and knowledge, he comes accross very nutty. He does Sarc.
I don't like McCain, but I prefer him over Obama or a Ron Paul.
My candidate would have been Fred Thompson, but the man couldn't put his candidacy together. But I liked his policies.
As for McCain losing, I don't know, way too early to tell.
I think as more Americans get to know Obama's radical ties, if Conservatives put them out constantly, will be Obama's undoing.
But believe me, it doesn't escape me that McCain is a Rino and not a Conservative. I just prefer McCain over Obama. The lesser of two evils, if you will.
But Sarc, you cannot deny that Ron Paul said that 9/11 was the fault of America's policies in the Middle East.
You can't deny the fact that he has said that the USA should have never gotten involved in WWI and WWII.
These are facts. These are the types of comments that make Ron Paul come accross a bit nutty.
I can deny it because it's not true
June 19, 2008 - 13:31 ET by sarcasmoYouTube has what he said, which ain't what you say it is. And if you don't think our foreign policy of intervention contributes to our fiscal problems, you're not paying attention IMO. Anyway, as I've repeatedly said, my first choice was Walter Williams. I don't know about other libertarians, but this one wants less spending. I don't want a "choice" between a tax and spend welfare state or a borrow and spend warfare state.
Plus, like Dr. Paul and others (not many here) I see the drugwar as a fiscal and racist disaster. I find it interesting that all the convenient antiracists around here when it came to Ron Paul's (well, Lew Rockwell's) stupid racist newsletters nobody I know even read strangely refuse to notice the far-more racist effects & history of the drugwar, so I make it obvious in my sigfile in order to cause cognitive dissonance. I'll probably keep this up until they let Corey Maye out of prison or something. I do this because I want less government in reality, not just in rhetoric.
JMR
The tax & spend drug war looks racist in the real world.
Foreign policy
June 19, 2008 - 19:02 ET by UnsaneAnd if you don't think our foreign policy of intervention contributes to our fiscal problems, you're not paying attention IMO. Except that we get PLENTY of revenue to more than cover the expenses of government and have plenty enough left over to pay down the debt in order to save the additional 15% of the budget that we burn on interest payments.
Having a foreign policy that consists of a SecState who occasionally whines and whimpers about how the United States would like the world to be is the fastest path to nowhere and irrelevance imaginable. You don't accomplish jack in foreign policy without the occasional application of FORCE, something lost on way too many here.
Res tantum valet quantum vendi potest.
Sarc - Ron Paul would have had less of a chance than McCain
June 19, 2008 - 13:24 ET by Dee BunkHe's got all the same negatives in age and personality. McCain will lose because of that. Nothing else. Paul would too. There's no "I told you so" to anyone here. None of us wanted McCain or thought he'd be a good candidate.
Dee... I have a one
June 19, 2008 - 13:28 ET by Clear thinkerDee...
I have a one dollar bet with RD Helm and shawn that McCain will win. Would you like to get in on the action?
Keep in mind that I'm not voting for McCain.
45 Communist Goals for America http://www.nationmakers.com/com_goals.htm
Yeah Clear - I'll take that bet and I'm voting for McCain
June 19, 2008 - 13:33 ET by Dee Bunkas much as it pains me to do so. I sure hope you don't not vote or vote for Obama though. At least vote for Keys or the Libertarian.
I sure hope you are right Clear but I just can't see it happening unless something drastic happens. Obama has tons more money, tones more charm and the media to back him. /p>
Dee... Ok, a dollar it
June 19, 2008 - 13:37 ET by Clear thinkerDee...
Ok, a dollar it is.
Would you be surprised to hear that it will be Dems that will push McCain over the top and into the WH?
BTW... There is no way in hell I will vote for a Communist like Obama!
45 Communist Goals for America http://www.nationmakers.com/com_goals.htm
Clear - I'm sure some dems will vote for McCain
June 19, 2008 - 13:50 ET by Dee Bunkprobably about the same amount of Republicans who won't vote for him. The people who will win it for Obama are the American Idol public who vote on looks and personality.
I'm glad you won't be voting for Obama. I can't blame anyone for not voting for McCain, but I have to because of the WOT.
Dee, you don't know that.
June 19, 2008 - 13:34 ET by sarcasmoNobody knows. He had plenty of positives McCain doesn't have, such as high support by computer geeks, libertarians, fiscal conservatives, US troops, young people, and perhaps most surprisingly by blacks, despite Rockwell's dumb racist newsletters. And please DO expect an "I told you so" from me if/when McCain loses this one, it's in my nature.
JMR
The tax & spend drug war looks racist in the real world.
No sarc
June 19, 2008 - 13:45 ET by Dee Bunkhe was never anywhere in National polls and all of the people who are too disgusted to vote for McCain wouldn't vote for Paul either.
It's always a personality contest and neither McCain or Paul can beat Obama.
You can say I told you so to Syrius I guess. He's the only one who supports McCain that I know of. Romney could have beat Obama he was the only one with enough personality and charm.
So actually I guess it should be us saying I told you so to you. When the Republican looses it will be because conservatives went for Paul over Romney. So be ready for me to say I told you so to you ; ) I can say it just as easy and with even more authority.
I'll not be convinced.
June 19, 2008 - 14:07 ET by sarcasmoRomney wasn't likely to win because apparently all the other Republican candidates hated him. And before the New Republic's hit piece, he was in double digits in a number of states, despite all the "he can't win" talk we saw from people who were saying the same 3 words about, uh, Senator John McCain. And the low point came when the likes of NBC's Jay Leno had to bust Fox's blatant, knee-jerk, antilibertarian bias for NB, which Jay did. Anyway, that's all water over the dam and we can agree to disagree, since I'm sure you do.
JMR
The tax & spend drug war looks racist in the real world.
Ron Paul had no chance
June 19, 2008 - 14:26 ET by general companyRon Paul had no chance from the day he started talking about his isolation policies. No serious person would even think it is possable. This is 2008 not 1808.
RP being for less gov and less spending, is great. But most folks find his foreign policies a bigger fantasy then even that.
"Television is a freak show" Bernie Goldberg
General, in 1808 the USA
June 19, 2008 - 15:08 ET by Dan The Man 2General, in 1808 the USA was not an isolationist. Read the Barbary Pirates and from there you ralize from the time the USA was born that we were not isolationist. Jefferson basically from what I read the prototype of a strong President. President Bush and Jefferson seem to have the same type of international diplomacy goals.
Ron Paul and his nuts would have you believe teh founders were against a strong offense in response to foriegn threats but the opposite is true. In fact some of the nuts even said Jefferson believed in a passive foriegn policy. He may have when he was not President but being President opened his eyes quite a bit.
Nuke em til they glow then shoot em in the dark.
Yes I know/agree, but I am
June 19, 2008 - 15:30 ET by general companyYes I know/agree, but I am only suggesting it would had been far more realistic to say we could had been isolated 200yrs ago, then to think we could be today.
"Television is a freak show" Bernie Goldberg
Refuting crap
June 19, 2008 - 17:02 ET by UnsaneYeah. My troops ALL supported a man who wants to render the United States from a globally power projecting nation into a whiny world laughingstock. Sure.
In all my time around the military over the past year, I saw ONE vehicle driven by one of the troops with a Ron Paul bumper sticker. And as Sua Sponte 75 pointed out (h/t to him), much of that support from US troops most likely comes from civilian DoD employees.
And, oh by the way, financial contributions to a "partisan political candidate" are prohibited by Airmen at least, according to some regs I read on the matter.
Res tantum valet quantum vendi potest.
Fut - I'd still rather have Ron Paul than all of the others
June 19, 2008 - 13:21 ET by Dee Bunkyou mentioned. He wasn't as nutty as them. He didn't imply that Bush was a liar or went to war for oil and other crazy claims like the leftists. He just sticks to the previous Republican position that Nation building isn't good. I don't have nearly as much of a problem with that position. He didn't demonized his opponents and I respect him for that. His style of speech and age make him appear more loony just like McCain. Obama appears rational because of his youth and charm and he is so out there.
Paul is better than all the Dems you listed on just about ever issue. I don't think he's as anti-semitic as Bucchanan either.
I'd rather have Paul than Obama any day.
Simple basic questions
June 19, 2008 - 16:53 ET by Unsane"What I'm refuting instead is the false charge of anti-semitism for just telling the truth about AIPAC, which like it or not has spied repeatedly on the USA." Proof? Please provide said proof in the form of a source that I can evaluate on my own.
By the way, your hatred of AIPAC aside: if it is as all powerful as you and your Reactionary God proclaim, then why is Saudi Arabia flying F-15s and E-3s? Why isn't Jonathan Pollard a free man right now?
Res tantum valet quantum vendi potest.
Embarrassment
June 19, 2008 - 18:51 ET by Unsanefutbol, good to see you again!
Ron Paul is an embarrassment to the state of TX.
Res tantum valet quantum vendi potest.
You want proof?
June 19, 2008 - 18:57 ET by UnsaneRon Paul has called the Israeli government "the biggest lobby in Washington of the bad sort".
One, for him to have been in Congress as long as he has, and for him to not know what the biggest lobby in DC REALLY is, only shows me he is utterly clueless.
Two, that statement smacks of anti-Semitism, as (back to point #1) Israel is NOT the biggest lobby in DC.
Or, let's try the vote that occurred earlier this year a resolution condemning recent attacks on Israel, approved 403-1. Gee. Who was the only one to vote "no"? (h/t to my pardner, Roger the Shrubber) Why did he vote no on such a simple resolution?
Res tantum valet quantum vendi potest.
Is it possible?
June 19, 2008 - 12:03 ET by pbthinkerHere we are, paying over $4.00 for gasoline and what do we hear from the Democrats? Nationalize the oil industry (Maxine Waters), a windfall profits tax (been there , failed there), Rahm Emmanual telling us about all the leasing areas the oil companies have and are not drilling in, (probably because there's not enough oil there to make it worth their while), and finally nationalize the refineries (so they can make more laws that require special blends that tax capacity so that maintenance can't be done). Now, is there anything here that will drop the price of gasoline?
Can any political party be as stupid as this one?
Democrats: Stuck on Stupid since 2000.
pbthinker... I no longer
June 19, 2008 - 12:16 ET by Clear thinkerpbthinker...
I no longer think it's stupidity. I think it's a purposeful attack on our country.
45 Communist Goals for America http://www.nationmakers.com/com_goals.htm
Help Wanted
June 19, 2008 - 12:28 ET by acumenI haven't been following the NB threads lately so I apologize if this has been there, done that. If not, it only takes a minute to sign the petition.
I'm sick and tired of rolling over and letting politicians on BOTH sides of the aisle continue to take away our freedoms for their political well-being.
From our own Brent Baker at MRC:
Dear CyberAlert Reader:
Even though they virtually dominate the media on television and in
print, liberals are now poised to go after the top prize: talk radio.
Despite the fact that there is no market for their radical ideas,
they are building the case to use the FCC to censor free speech by
resurrecting the Fairness Doctrine -- a blatant form of government
control of ideas that could banish the conservative voice from the airwaves!
Right now, a bill is being prevented from getting to the floor for a
vote by liberal leadership in Congress. This bill -- the Broadcaster
Freedom Act -- would permanently ban the so-called "Fairness
Doctrine" and bring about true Radio Independence once and for all!
Conservative Action Awaits
Each year, we celebrate our country's Independence on July 4. This
year, we'd like to celebrate Radio Independence Day, but we need your help!
We must join together to save the free debate of ideas from
government censorship! That's why we're asking you to sign our
special Citizen Petition to stop the Fairness Doctrine. Please go
here now:
http://www.mrcaction.org/512/petition.asp?pid=16837381
Timing is Critical
We want to present Congressional leadership with at least 100,000
petitions demanding the Broadcaster Freedom Act be brought to a full
floor vote before the Fourth of July!
Every member of Congress needs to go on record on this vital First
Amendment issue -- but we need your help, first.
This bill will languish in committee unless we can rally members of
the House to sign a "discharge" petition that would bring the bill to
the House floor for a vote.
Right now, 194 members of Congress have signed the discharge
petition, but getting the remaining 24 signatures--the key signatures
we need will require a massive grassroots effort!
That's why we need you to sign this petition right now and help make
this July 4 Radio Independence Day.
Please go here:
http://www.mrcaction.org/512/petition.asp?pid=16837381
Our Full Commitment
Let's face it. The Left still dominates the mainstream media. The
last main barrier to total control is conservative talk radio!
Imagine a world without Rush Limbaugh or Sean Hannity or Mark Levin
or Laura Ingraham.
That is why we are dedicating every possible resource at the MRC's
disposal to fighting this effort to gag conservative ideas. We must
keep talk radio free and independent of government control.
It is time to rally for Radio Independence Day, and we're counting on
you to help us strike back and silence this attempt at censorship!
Thank you in advance for taking a stand to ensure that conservatives
have a voice in our society.
- Brent Baker
It MUST be Election Time
June 19, 2008 - 14:15 ET by GothampcThe Democrats are once again fretting that their candidate may win the popular vote but lose the election.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/politico/20080619/pl_politico/11182
McCain willing to
June 19, 2008 - 15:36 ET by ckc1227McCain willing to re-examine ANWR stance:
Do more than examine it, do it.
ckc... Hear!
June 19, 2008 - 15:45 ET by bigtimerckc...
Hear! Hear!
Better late than never...and someone guiding him is showing him the way....finally.
Defending our country, self-dependency on our own oil, stopping all illegal immigration and most importantly SC Judges....he will win if he does this...(although getting through any of the Judges or other issues will be hard to do, unless we take back the majority in Congress) which would be as miracle...but miracles do happen.
Well, a gal can hope.
Just want to add, if the American people get past fed up with the dems blocking progress on drilling here and gas prices remain the same, repubs use this as they should in their individual elections...we may win...ya' just never know.
"Never murder your opponent when he is committing suicide." ~ W. Wilson
Here B.T.
June 19, 2008 - 21:48 ET by kilrodNearly 400,000 e-mails get Congress moving
McCain, members of Congress call for oil drilling
June 19, 2008
After 10 years of doing nothing, Congress is finally beginning to act on demands that we use our natural resources to help America become energy self-sufficient.
Following the receipt of nearly 400,000 e-mails from AFA supporters asking for action, Senator John McCain and several members of Congress are now advocating that the U.S. drill for oil. This is great news!
If you believe Congress should allow the exploration of energy sources which would not materially affect our environment, join the 400,000 other AFA supporters in sending that message to Congress! If Congress doesn't act to resolve this problem now, our families will be paying $10 a gallon in the near future.
We have abundant energy reserves, but efforts to provide for our needs end up in court because of the environmentalists!
Tell Congress you want common sense action now to reduce the red tape that keeps us from becoming energy self-sufficient!
Take Action!
Congress is now beginning to act on this problem. Send your e-mail encouraging them to move forward!
Remember, only two defining forces have ever offered to die for you, Jesus Christ and the American Soldier
Evening kilrod... Thank
June 19, 2008 - 21:54 ET by bigtimerEvening kilrod...
Thank you for the link.
I have...I hope others do.
We cannot let up on this.
"Never murder your opponent when he is committing suicide." ~ W. Wilson
A John Stossel Article
June 19, 2008 - 15:38 ET by sarcasmoAlmost everyone here will hate. But me, because I still think he's right. :) Off to play bad cards & drink good beers for a while.
JMR
The tax & spend drug war looks racist in the real world.
I found the following
June 19, 2008 - 16:51 ET by ckc1227I found the following interesting despite his comparing cigarettes to 2 highly addictive, mind altering drugs:
Really?
John might want to research that point a little further. Convenience stores are robbed quite often for cigarettes of all brands, including Marlboros.
The drug war definitely could be fought better perhaps, but I'm not sure I'm ready for all drugs to be legalized, though I am ok with marijuana.
Well, those crazy Amish
June 19, 2008 - 18:37 ET by Roger the ShrubberWell, those crazy Amish love their Newports...
Yea this is nuts, Stossel
June 19, 2008 - 18:59 ET by general companyYea this is nuts, Stossel has blown any credibility he ever had with me.This (as Sarc like to say) 5yr olds argument about the "myths" of drug use is ridiculous. Just go look inside any rehab center, and remember the real bad ones are in prison. I have spent my fair share of time with drug addicts, this isn't a solution, it's nonsense.
"Television is a freak show" Bernie Goldberg
Because it's working
June 19, 2008 - 19:20 ET by sarcasmoSO well right now...
JMR
The tax & spend drug war looks racist in the real world.
Its still better then
June 19, 2008 - 19:25 ET by general companyIts still better then Stossels solution. Less dead kids anyway. Geez
"Television is a freak show" Bernie Goldberg
You have 0 proof of that.
June 19, 2008 - 19:29 ET by sarcasmoAnd prohibition history says otherwise, repeatedly.
JMR
The tax & spend drug war looks racist in the real world.
Hugs, not Drugs
June 19, 2008 - 19:33 ET by Free StinkerDisclaimer: I'm not in favor of legalizing "drugs".
I recall the comic strip Bloom County, when they ran the series about Milo and the kids selling illegal hair tonic.
Milo ends up mailing a letter to the feds saying "Thank You For The artificial Price Supports"
. . . think about it everyone . . .
Hhmm, more drugs equals
June 19, 2008 - 19:49 ET by general companyHhmm, more drugs equals less dead kids? Yea your right, I have no proof. Your "history" does nothing for me concerning this. I dont need proof, just a little common sense.
"Television is a freak show" Bernie Goldberg
And what does your 'common
June 19, 2008 - 20:00 ET by mandrakeAnd what does your 'common sense' tell you about parental resposiblilty vs. goverment interference? The goverment has no business giving a young child a criminal record for smoking a joint.
It does if said child
June 19, 2008 - 20:09 ET by Clear thinkerIt does if said child breaks the law!
45 Communist Goals for America http://www.nationmakers.com/com_goals.htm
Look I am not
June 19, 2008 - 20:28 ET by general companyLook I am not suggesting that we are doing everything the right way. No doubt their could be improvements, Stossels plan will bring more pain in all of our lives.
You know what the biggest myth about drugs is? That you will spend less money on it if its legal. Between the beaureaucracy it will create and the resulting crime and health issues that will need to be addressed. Their will be the lawyers making sure nobody is responsible. Just think alcohol related "crimes/accident/deaths x 2 at least.
"Television is a freak show" Bernie Goldberg
Well some laws are just
June 19, 2008 - 20:31 ET by mandrakeWell some laws are just plain stupid! The goverment makes up dumb things and we 'the people' should revolt. For example, why must I get my car tested for emissions every 2 years? The government is an a$$.
At least here in Ontario they have basically decrimialized marijuana so I don't have to worry about my kids getting busted..yet again :)
The government is an a$$.
June 19, 2008 - 20:39 ET by BlondePrecisely. Which is why we conservatives want LESS, rather than MORE, government.
Welcome to conservativeland.
As for your kids getting busted....teach them to be more circumspect if they break the law (it sounds like you condone that). Otherwise, teach them to not break the law.
David Gregory, do you know which damn network you lie for? ~ Uncle Jimbo, @Blackfive
Blonde
June 19, 2008 - 20:46 ET by mandrakeBelieve me we try. One of them is on strict probation right now on threat of being asked to leave the house..it's so hard with three girls.
I think I might have been better off with boys.?
Wow...sorry Mandrake
June 19, 2008 - 20:50 ET by BlondeGirls are hard....I know, I was a wild one once.
Good luck with that.
David Gregory, do you know which damn network you lie for? ~ Uncle Jimbo, @Blackfive
Mandrake, I have 3 of each,
June 19, 2008 - 20:53 ET by bassndudeMandrake, I have 3 of each, all grown now and out on their own. Each sex provides their own little set of problems, which I seemed better to deal with the boys, they understand the threat of force and removed car keys. Girls are a little harder and seem to need to be reminded who the boss is at a later age. I know the twins got their last spanking at 14, when they defiantly told me they were to big to spank. After that they seemed pretty easy.
Save a SeAL, club a liberal!!
Mandrake
June 19, 2008 - 20:56 ET by shawn228It is good to see you, looks like we are both back earlier than our self imposed bans, which is a good thing :-)
"At least here in Ontario they have basically decrimialized marijuana so
I don't have to worry about my kids getting busted..yet again :) "
Countdown to Unsane saying Canada is a country going nowhere.
End the countdown
June 19, 2008 - 22:51 ET by UnsaneCountdown to Unsane saying Canada is a country going nowhere. Canada IS going nowhere. No one gives a crap what it thinks in foreign policy, it does not project power, the government constantly plays to the lowest common denominators in the country by coddling and babying its biggest losers...
...need I go on?
It is well down the path to being a footnote in history behind such nations as...the United States.
And it is much more Socialist than Canadians are willing to admit.
Res tantum valet quantum vendi potest.
Unsane
June 19, 2008 - 22:56 ET by Cool ArrowLet's take a vote. Choose your weapons
French or English ballots?
LYDSEXICS UNTIE
Oui? Yes?
June 19, 2008 - 23:10 ET by UnsaneEnglish.
Because, even if they were in 100% French with absolutely NO English, the Quebecers would STILL complain, and whine about leaving Canada. (Okay, that might not be fair because the PQ has been out of power there since 2003 but...you get my point.)
Res tantum valet quantum vendi potest.
Ontario
June 19, 2008 - 22:47 ET by UnsaneAt least here in Ontario they have basically decrimialized marijuana so I don't have to worry about my kids getting busted..yet again :) Maybe that explains, partially, why the province of Ontario is about to hit "have-not" status, taking that infamous crown from Newfoundland. :-)
My parents must have been quite the pair of oddballs for wanting us kids to grow up and make something out of our lives, rather than check out of society and dedicate ourselves to smoking dope all day.
Res tantum valet quantum vendi potest.
Unsane
June 20, 2008 - 00:07 ET by mandrakeHi, always good to hear from you :) I don't know exactly where you get your information about Ontario from but we are doing just fine thank you. I myself am looking forward to some fine fishing in the backwoods this summer.
All 3 of my children are currently working now that I bailed them out of jail. In fact I fear I'm going have to put up the money for one of them to start her own business..ahh life is good..come visit!
mandrake
June 20, 2008 - 00:21 ET by UnsaneIs Ontario doing fine? I understand the Ontarian economy is more built on manufacturing, much more than the other provinces, and that if not for Canada's natural resources and a booming market for them, the Canadian economy would have contracted. That news doesn't bode well for a province so geared for manufacturing.
When I was last in Canada, that news led to a 1% drop in the loonie.
I'll visit Toronto again at some point. If I have ANYTHING to say about it, it will be for the Rush concert that takes place there next month! (I've been to Canada twice already this year - why not go for a hat trick?)
Res tantum valet quantum vendi potest.
Heh dude, if your serious
June 20, 2008 - 00:33 ET by mandrakeHeh dude, if your serious about the Rush concert I'll try to get tickets! PM me. Then we could go out for a beer..who knows, we might even like each other.
Rush (the Canadian power trio)
June 20, 2008 - 01:02 ET by UnsaneI'll have to play the Rush concert by ear, I'm afraid, due to work schedules. But if I even get a modicum of an opportunity...well, you'll see a PM.
One of the greatest moments of my life was when I visited Toronto and played track #3 off of Moving Pictures as soon as I cleared Customs. :-)
I think you might be surprised at just how easy I am to get along with. I have been to Canada 5 times now, and even when my visit there was entirely unplanned and unexpected, I have had a great time there.
Res tantum valet quantum vendi potest.
And what does your
June 19, 2008 - 20:43 ET by general companyAnd what does your 'common sense' tell you about parental resposiblilty vs. goverment interference?
Hell, I am all for parental responsibility , but it aint me you have to convince. In case you hadnt noticed, drugs are a big reason why their is so little of it. Legalize drugs and you will have all of the Gov interference you will be able to stand.
"Television is a freak show" Bernie Goldberg
Precisely gc. "Never
June 19, 2008 - 20:45 ET by bigtimerPrecisely gc.
"Never murder your opponent when he is committing suicide." ~ W. Wilson
Such a strange approach to government
June 19, 2008 - 22:43 ET by UnsaneThe goverment has no business giving a young child a criminal record for smoking a joint. Canadians are such interesting people. For them, the government should NOT enforce laws or basically have a foreign policy, but it SHOULD lavish goodie after goodie after goodie upon the population.
A bit of inversion if you ask me.
Res tantum valet quantum vendi potest.
Haditha Marine to sue Murtha?
June 19, 2008 - 19:00 ET by BlondeOh how I hope the good Colonel overcomes the remainder of his legal issues (note the government is going to appeal the exoneration of this fine man...the rat finks!).
It would be a fine, fine thing to make Murtha pay for his slanderous remarks, and I, for one, will contribute to this brave man's legal bills if he goes forward with this.
....the New York Times featured the case on the front page when it was being compared by war critics to the infamous My Lai massacre in Vietnam. But now, with evidence the Haditha accusations were a smear, the story has been relegated to the back pages.
What, the MsM hasn't reported on this, have they? What bias, nevermind, nothing to see here.
David Gregory, do you know which damn network you lie for? ~ Uncle Jimbo, @Blackfive
For the Colonel
June 19, 2008 - 19:06 ET by UnsaneMaybe someone out there should start up a legal defense fund for him. If so, I'll contribute. :-)
Res tantum valet quantum vendi potest.
I'll keep an eye on it, Uns.
June 19, 2008 - 19:31 ET by BlondeI'd love to see Murtha get his just desserts.
I'll see what I can find out.
David Gregory, do you know which damn network you lie for? ~ Uncle Jimbo, @Blackfive
The Colonel is coming for
June 19, 2008 - 19:45 ET by Free StinkerThe Colonel is coming for you Representative Murtha . . . now *you* get to be on trial.
Ha ha!
"Don't forget to vote this fall. Not for McCain, not ever, but there might be a Conservative Rep or Senator that Needs Your Vote" --Free Stinker
Free,
June 19, 2008 - 19:52 ET by BlondeOh how I hope Murtha has to finally back up his big fat smears on our troops. He is a disgusting individual....and deserves to be strung up by his, um, little toes.
He's a disgusting pig, feeding at the trough of the public dole.
David Gregory, do you know which damn network you lie for? ~ Uncle Jimbo, @Blackfive
Electoral Maps - If you're into that sort of thing.
June 19, 2008 - 20:02 ET by Free StinkerBesides the Editors Pick: LAT has interactive electoral map (The Swamp)
I found this other website - 270ToWin
"Don't forget to vote this fall. Not for McCain, not ever, but there might be a Conservative Rep or Senator that Needs Your Vote" --Free Stinker
France
June 19, 2008 - 20:57 ET by ort777Can we just reload the Mayflower and ship us all to France where things are set up socialist already? Maybe Venezuala? Cram us all into the boat, let us live under socialism and let us see how happy we'll be THEN we can see if the American people will still vote Obama or Kerry or Castro or whatever joker they put up. I'm getting really, really tired of the slow bleed to socialism and when we get hit with health care & global warming legislation, it's going to get 100 times worse.
Europe needs the money
June 19, 2008 - 22:53 ET by UnsaneLet's send them ALL to Europe. Our "allies" there need more people to steal from.
Res tantum valet quantum vendi potest.
Supreme Court: Congress be damned, We make the law.
June 20, 2008 - 05:55 ET by BritcomSource: WorldNetDaily
The Supreme Court has said by virtue of its ruling in the Gitmo case:
As I said here, we need an Amendment to the Constitution that makes these unelected Supreme Court Justices accountable to the people, and removable by ballot.
Don't you agree?
---
Communist vs. Statist '08
Q. Is Panamanian born John McCain a "Natural Born Citizen"
Why make new tools when we have some in place?
June 20, 2008 - 06:52 ET by UnsaneWe already vote in 100 people that can impeach Justices.
Why doesn't that happen? Because we as Americans don't demand it. Until such time that we DO, we deserve all the crap we can handle.
I am not remotely interested in voting for judges. We do enough of that in TX. (I think there could be better ways of holding the judiciary here to account, as done in other states.) Besides, if we get more than 50% of the population to vote in the November election, that will be a miracle.
Res tantum valet quantum vendi potest.
The impeachment method is too difficult to be practical
June 20, 2008 - 09:21 ET by BritcomFirst, articles of impeachment must be passed by a majority vote in the House, then a trial must take place in the Senate, then it takes a two-thirds majority of the Senators present to convict and expel the Justice. This would have to be done for each Justice one wanted to expel from the bench.
My proposal is much simpler. Periodically Justices would stand for retention ballot. That means that after say four years the people would get to vote up or down on whether or not to keep the Justice or have a new one appointed by the President.
This, I think, would put the fear of the People in them and if they step out of line and fail to be retained, well then its clean out your desk and hit the road.
---
Communist vs. Statist '08
Q. Is Panamanian born John McCain a "Natural Born Citizen"
On paper only
June 21, 2008 - 04:24 ET by UnsaneYour proposal is simpler on paper. But you keep forgetting how lazy the electorate is.
Not to mention that this will lead to the complete politization (if there is such a word) of the Supreme Court as done for countless judicial posts in TX. The method of selecting judges here in TX SUCKS. You wish to impose a similar system on a federal level. No thanks.
Also, because of a politicized bench, they will start making rulings based on popularity, not what the Constitution says. (Well, they do that now, but such a scenario would make things even worse.)
Hence, impeachment and removal of justices. It is supposed to be difficult so that justices don't get ousted for BS. BUT, if used properly...
Res tantum valet quantum vendi potest.
My Court reform proposal
June 21, 2008 - 05:33 ET by BritcomUnsane, If you had taken the time to read what I propose, (linked below) you would have seen that I am NOT proposing TX style elections for Supreme Court Justices at all.
I proposed that Justices would continue to be appointed by the President with the Consent of the Senate. But, after approval, some years later after the American People have had a chance to see how the new Justice rules on cases, they would have to step down unless they get retained by up or down vote of the People.
It wouldn't matter how many people turned out to vote on the Justices ballot question, because which ever answer got the most votes would prevail. (if a tie then he would not be retained)
There would be no candidates for election, because if the Justice was NOT retained, then the President would again appoint a new one.
This way Justices don't have to "run" for office as they do in TX and they would not have to seek campaign contributions, or cater to special interests groups, because a potential new Justice doesn't get to know if he will get picked for appointment, nor will he know if he will be retained at the end of each term. He will be out of the loop.
Neither would he have a campaign opponent, because no one would know whom the President might later pick to replace him or if the Senate would approve him.
The President would still have his freedom to choose whomever he wishes to choose and if approved by the Senate, his choice would be seated for his or her first term. At the end of the term, the ballot question would be:
Should Justice "x" be retained? Yes or No.
If yes, then he gets another term, if no, then he doesn't and a new Justice will be appointed at a later date.
Does that clarify what I mean? I know you may not agree, but I would at least like my proposal to be understood for what it is.
My proposal is essentially the Florida system if you would like to take a look at that.
---
Lets fix the Supreme Court for good!
Communist vs. Statist '08
It may sound good, but
June 21, 2008 - 05:54 ET by sarcasmoThe average Floridian doesn't know the name of even one FL Supreme. Most, by default, seem to vote to retain them all. I'll confess, unless I know something I like about a justice, I generally vote to dump 'em by default, just to counteract the default votes of others. It's hard to know that much about what individual justices do unless you're around lawyers a lot, and most people can't afford that.
JMR
The tax & spend drug war looks racist in the real world.
State
June 21, 2008 - 06:37 ET by BritcomI agree that's true on the State level, much like everything else is boring on the State level. But, I think it would be different on the Federal level because the stakes are much higher. (You probably contact your US congressman more often than you do your State Rep, am I right?)
I think the National News Media and Talk radio would be all over it discussing should we keep him or should we dump him and why. For instance, who would have thought anyone would watch CourtTV?
Another reason is that the US constitution is much simpler to understand than most State Constitutions; and State High courts often have more complex jobs than the SCOTUS does. For example, suppose Justice Scalia or Justice Ginsburg were up for retention ballot; is there any doubt it would be discussed at length on TV and Radio and the Internet? There might even be new shows and sites devoted to the subject helping the average voter understand what it all means.
---
Lets fix the Supreme Court for good!
Communist vs. Statist '08
Apply what we have instead of reinventing the wheel
June 21, 2008 - 06:45 ET by UnsaneWell, you certainly clarified your position. However, I still am not feeling it.
Much like immigration "reform", the tools (laws) are already there, they just await application.
Res tantum valet quantum vendi potest.