A very active sports weekend ahead of us:
- Tiger on the prowl at Torrey Pines: Can he really win his first tournament after rehab?
- Did the Celtics show Thursday night that they are just flat out the better team, and it's time to stick a fork in the Lakers?
- Have you caught the baseball bug yet?
- What are you looking for at racetracks in Michigan and Kentucky?
- After demolishing Federer at Roland Garros last Sunday, what does Nadal need to do get his grass game on heading into Wimbledon?
- Have you seen the pre-college football season top 25?
- Anybody want to discuss the Bassmaster Elite Series?
- What do you make of the new swimsuits that will shatter records at the Olympics this summer (h/t Blonde)?
Did I miss anything?
Editor at Large
Comments Policy
Thanks NS
June 14, 2008 - 11:31 ET by BlondeI like the top 25....and my Gators are probably where they need to be.
I saw this in the local paper this morning. It's interesting how the little changes in sports apparel make a difference. Perhaps they'll come up with something a little more aerodynamic for Brandon's sport.
I love competitive swimming, these new suits should have Olympic & World records falling by the wayside in China.
David Gregory, do you know which damn network you lie for? ~ Uncle Jimbo, @Blackfive
B
June 14, 2008 - 11:38 ET by Noel SheppardB,
I'm on the fence about those new suits. It's kind of like juiced baseballs. What do new records mean if they're being made because of a new swimsuit? How do we compare swimmers of the past -- those in traditional Speedos -- to these folks?
If we see previous records shattered in China, what does it mean? ns
NS,
June 14, 2008 - 11:52 ET by BlondeI think it means it is what it is (wow...that sounds Clintonesque!). Both the technology and training have improved over the years, therefore the appropriate comparison should be how dominant an athelete was at his/her period on the top, rather than now vs. then. (Think Tiger).
Look at how track has changed with lighter shoes and more aerodynamic apparel.
Look at how tennis has changed with the composite raquets. Does that mean Pete Sampras' record is any less impressive than Rod Laver's?
I can think of other sports where the technological improvement of attire and/or apparel has changed the dynamic...speed skating, snow skiing (water skiing for sure....a sport in which I once competed), etc.
David Gregory, do you know which damn network you lie for? ~ Uncle Jimbo, @Blackfive
B et al
June 14, 2008 - 12:07 ET by Noel SheppardB et al,
It's funny how several people brought up golf. You know what: maybe metal heads and graphite/titanium shafts shouldn't be allowed. Maybe the game would be more interesting if folks had to use clubs from the past.
Doesn't car racing place governors on engines to regulate maximum speeds? These cars today could go much faster than those 20 and 30 years ago, correct? But this is regulated to make the sport about driving skill and pitcrew efficiency rather than just who has the fastest car. Right?
BTW: I'm not just playing devil's advocate, because, as I stated, I'm very on the fence concerning this issue. However, I'm also a bit of an old-fashioned guy who's nostalgic for the past. I even still use persimmon woods. Honestly. ns
N
June 14, 2008 - 12:17 ET by BlondeI think your point about race cars is not quite the same thing at all. Not knowing much about racing, I'd suspect it's a safety issue, more than anything else. Rick?
I understand your purist position, however, everything evolves, and technology just allows the human body (and heart....a big part of any sport) to perform to it's maximum.
I'd also like to add a comment about horse racing, after last week's disappointing Belmont. Nothing of a technological nature has really changed over the past hundred years, with the exception of gluing on race plates instead of nailing them to the hoof. Secretariat's World Record at the Belmont still stands, thirty five years after he smoked that track.
David Gregory, do you know which damn network you lie for? ~ Uncle Jimbo, @Blackfive
B
June 14, 2008 - 12:36 ET by Noel SheppardB,
The way it's been explained to me by racing enthusiasts, horsepower regulation is not a safety issue. Track racing is not supposed to be about who has the faster car. It's supposed to be about who drives a similarly appointed car the best, and whose pitcrew gets him in and out of stops the fastest. That's why racing is actually much more of a team sport than non-enthusiasts believe.
BTW: I think your horse racing example proves my point. The fact that Secretariat's record hasn't been broken potentially shows how technology is negatively impacting sports.
Let me give you another example: having not played tennis in years, one of the first times I visited my parents in Florida after their retirement I walked on a court with my mother's oversized Prince graphite racquet. Played better than I ever had because of the size of the sweetspot. Mind you, I probably hadn't played in ten years, but was better that day than ever. Why? Because of the racquet.
Yes, I'd prefer tennis players today to have to use the old wooden racquets. Then we'd know how folks like Sampras and Federer would have compared to Borg and Laver. :-) ns
NS
June 14, 2008 - 12:48 ET by BlondeI understand where you're coming from. Which is why I made the statement about horse racing. I think it proves my point, too.
Interesting how we can both use the same examples on different sides of an argument. You are going for the static and purist form of a sport (no changes allowed) while I am advocating for a level playing field from a technological standpoint. Technology, and therefore the sport, evolves. But it evolves equally for all (well, except for the greats of the past).
As for Pete & Roger, I think they'd beat Borg & Laver with wooden racquets and white balls. Bigger, stronger, better conditioned. Pete takes it all, IMO, because he played an overwhelmingly agressive style that none of the other three could overcome. But that brings up an interesting argument as well. Pete couldn't win on clay. So where does that fit in?
Great discussion for a very HOT and humid Saturday.
We heard the sonic boom when the shuttle came down this a.m., BTW. Totally cool.
avid Gregory, do you know which damn network you lie for? ~ Uncle Jimbo, @Blackfive
B
June 14, 2008 - 13:02 ET by Noel SheppardB,
Don't be dissin' Bjorn and Rodney, now. I'm not sure I agree that they'd be pushovers for Pete and Rog. Saw both of them play live at Forest Hills many times in the '70s, and those guys were tennis players. Really nice guys, too.
Those were the days when players -- even the top ones!!! -- would walk from the clubhouse to the courts without a big entourage, and you could actually walk with them and have a civilized chat. As this was before tennis really exploded, these folks were just regular people eager to chat with anybody who wanted to.
Those were the days. ns
NS
June 14, 2008 - 13:16 ET by BlondeNow we're getting into it.
I remember going to matches at the Lighthouse Point Country Club as a kid (When Chrissy was just getting started, oh BTW, she & I share a "Ft. Lauderdale" accent...LOL). Margaret Smith Court. Billie Jean King. Francois Durr. Back then, the players used to stay in private homes. My mom used to go to cocktail parties and meet them.
I haven't been to the Ericson (or whatever it is they're calling Key Biscayne these days)....which is really the 5th Slam tournament, in about thirteen years.
But the last time I went, Boris Becker was playing doubles....and it was wild. After his match, he goofed with the fans for almost an hour.
My friend has an in with the WTA, so we always go into the ladies' offices....at that tournament, I met Jana Novotna (who finally won Wimbledon a few years later), and said hi to Venus & Serena. Those girls are TALL! I'm 5' 9", and I felt like a shrimp!
Tennis players are some of the friendliest pro athletes on the face of the planet.
P.S. As a kid, I took tennis lessons from Rod Laver's cousin, Ian Laver.
David Gregory, do you know which damn network you lie for? ~ Uncle Jimbo, @Blackfive
B
June 14, 2008 - 13:40 ET by Noel SheppardB,
Wasn't that tournament previously referred to as The Lipton? Normally takes place in March, right?
My parents have been going there for about 18 years, and have talked about how friendly the athletes are compared to their more stoic manner at the US Open. I guess since this is an early tournament before the Grand Slam events start, folks are a little looser. ns
Quite right, NS
June 14, 2008 - 13:52 ET by BlondeIt used to be the Lipton.
It is a wonderful tournament. THE tuneup, usually.
So, who are you picking for Wimbledon? I have to go with Roger, and Maria Sharapova (okay...expect Uns to hop in shortly).
David Gregory, do you know which damn network you lie for? ~ Uncle Jimbo, @Blackfive
B
June 14, 2008 - 14:16 ET by Noel SheppardB,
Rog and Maria are safe plays. Honestly, I don't pay as much attention to tennis as I used to. The personalities don't intrigue me. ns
Maria!
June 14, 2008 - 16:38 ET by UnsaneDid someone say Maria???
(gushing)
Res tantum valet quantum vendi potest.
*Insert gratuitous Sharapova
June 14, 2008 - 20:32 ET by Roger the Shrubber*Insert gratuitous Sharapova photo for Unsane*
Can get much hotter than that!
June 15, 2008 - 04:29 ET by UnsaneDamn, Roger. Shadows are burned into walls and other structures as a result of me opening that pic...
:-)
Res tantum valet quantum vendi potest.
Hey Blonde
June 14, 2008 - 18:59 ET by ricklailNASCAR mandates that at Talledega and Dayton the cars run a plate that restricts the air going into the carburetor robbing them of horsepower and slowing them down. It is a safety issue. Had they not done that they would be running well over 200 mph. I think that that Bill Elliot holds the track record at Talledega at 212 mph. The tracks were not designed for that much speed. They also went to using small block engines like the 350 cubic in. They used to run the big block 428, 427 and the 426 Hemi. The racing at Dayton and Talledega is boring because of the restrictions.
“A debate is a conflict which clarifies a position. A dialogue is a conversation which compromises a position.” –John E. Ashbrook, The New Neutralism II, P. 7
Thx, Rick!
June 14, 2008 - 19:03 ET by BlondeI thought that may have been it, but wasn't sure...Noel's explanation made sense, too.
But, the original point of the discussion was that little bits of technology (in this case, better swimming suits) tend to move the sport, whatever it may be, forward. And leave the grand old champions behind in a dustheap.
So....what is your opinion on that?
Secondly....how do you see the SEC next year?
Luv ya, R! I knew you'd pop in with the correct answer.
David Gregory, do you know which damn network you lie for? ~ Uncle Jimbo, @Blackfive
Sorry Blonde
June 14, 2008 - 20:32 ET by ricklailGo to go with the DAWGS for the SEC title and the natioanl title. See my post at the top of the page.
Technology has so changed track and field. They can video a performance and have a computer analyze to show weakness. Did not have that 15 years ago. I know they do it in golf. There is a place nearby, if you want to pay for it, that will tape your swing and then have the computer show you how to best optimize it.
In horse racing I think it has become more of breeding for endurance. No horse has come close to the records that Secrteriat set. They don't breed for speed in my opinion.
“A debate is a conflict which clarifies a position. A dialogue is a conversation which compromises a position.” –John E. Ashbrook, The New Neutralism II, P. 7
Look what technology has done to golf
June 14, 2008 - 11:57 ET by jefflebowskiI read an article a few years back that Jack Nicklaus drives the ball 40 yards longer with his new graphite driver with an oversized head than he did with his old persimmon driver.
They even had to redesign Agusta to allow for the length of the new clubs. One constant in everything is change. For that reason, it is hard to compare one era to another.
Does anyone really believe that Babe Ruth would be a star today? Or Sonny Jurgenson could play QB? Everything changes.
Jeff Lebowski
www.angrywhitedude.c...
The same comparision
June 14, 2008 - 11:57 ET by dvdaughtryThe same comparision problem happens when players (in general) today have major surgery.
ACL reconstruction, Tommy John, etc have prolonged careers. In fact the whole medical field has enhanced the game and made comparisions very difficult.
Not to mention advances in nutrition, strength training, and overall health.
What would Mantle and Koufax numbers look like with the medical help that John Smoltz and Randy Johnson have had.
You trying to say Jesus Christ can't hit a curveball?
Re the new swimsuits:
June 14, 2008 - 13:04 ET by motherbeltRe the new swimsuits: everything old is new again....what goes around (coverup) comes around....;-)
Ohio State number 1 again?
June 14, 2008 - 11:57 ET by U.S.S. NixonOhio State number 1 again? How many times do they need to get blown out by an SEC team before people stop hyping them
"Conservatives saw the savagery of 9/11 in the attacks
and prepared for war; liberals saw the savagery of the 9/11 attacks and
wanted to prepare indictments and offer therapy and understanding for
our attackers"
What about Notre Dame?
June 14, 2008 - 11:59 ET by jefflebowskiHell, all Notre Dame usually has to do to be in the top 25 is field a team. It's a popularity contest before the season starts..and is to some degree after it starts. Give us a college football playoff!
Jeff Lebowski
www.angrywhitedude.c...
U.S.S. Nixon....Ohio State
June 14, 2008 - 12:06 ET by BlondeI started to comment about THAT, but didn't want to sound, um, arrogant. Seeing how we kicked the favored OSU teams in both football and basketball, consecutively. Ha!
And Jeff's point is well taken, too. Notre Dame, puhlease.
GO GATORS! (And everyone else in the SEC, too).
David Gregory, do you know which damn network you lie for? ~ Uncle Jimbo, @Blackfive
If Ohio State makes it to
June 14, 2008 - 12:16 ET by ThoughtPoliceIf Ohio State makes it to the championship again, I'm moving out of the country. OK, not really but thats what I'll feel like. They are THE most over rated team when it comes to big games.
With that said, and to be fair, my Sooners are the SECOND most over rated when it comes to big games. Yes, we can demolish teams during the regular season, but if we can't finish off the really good bcs teams, whats the point?
I like when the sooners are at about #5, that way we're not too high and not too low and when we win we legitimately move up.
Sooners
June 14, 2008 - 12:23 ET by BlondeWell, you can't have number 5, because that's where my Gators are....and I agree, it's a perfect place to be at the beginning of the season (between 5 & 10 is great).
Having said that, when it gets to the big dance, I'll root for the Sooners unless there's a SEC team involved. (1) Bobby Stoops; and (2) their total devastation of the (again, over-rated like OSU) Florida State Seminoles in the O-Bowl in 2001. Speaking of whom....guess who is NOT on the list!
David Gregory, do you know which damn network you lie for? ~ Uncle Jimbo, @Blackfive
Blonde, FSU not in the poll?
June 14, 2008 - 12:26 ET by jefflebowskiMaybe all of their players are still incarcerated!
Jeff Lebowski
You & the felon thing!
June 14, 2008 - 12:34 ET by BlondeJeff,
Twice you have me cracked up with that shtick.
A day without the Noles is a day without whining.
So which SEC team is yours?
<edit> oops, sorry, looking at your profile I'd wager that team would be }:
David Gregory, do you know which damn network you lie for? ~ Uncle Jimbo, @Blackfive
Blonde, my favorite team?
June 14, 2008 - 17:11 ET by jefflebowskiI have never liked FSU or Miami because they both field thugs. I am a NC State grad so I haven't had much to cheer for these past several years. I don't like the Gamecocks but the rest of the SEC doesn't bother me too much. I did enjoy watching Florida beat Ohio State like a rented mule a couple of years ago in the championship.
NC State got the coach from Boston College last year and hopefully he'll do the same for State that he did for BC. Anyway, hopefully we can beat those blue scumbellies from Chapel Hill this year.
Jeff Lebowski
www.angrywhitedude.c...
FSU & Miami
June 14, 2008 - 17:48 ET by BlondeI've lived with those two sorry excuses for rivals for my entire life.
No worries, tho.
The Gator Nation doesn't deign to stoop to the indignity that FSU and Miami does....what a bunch of criminals!
And yes, I'll enjoy watching whomever kicks the crap out of OSU, again, this year. Over-rated.
Let the games begin!
David Gregory, do you know which damn network you lie for? ~ Uncle Jimbo, @Blackfive
The truth about FSU not
June 14, 2008 - 13:22 ET by HermanoThe truth about FSU not being in the top 25 is because they have lost to Wake Forest each of the last two years. What a thrill it would be for me if WF can make it into the top 10. It would be a first for the program.
Hey Hermano
June 14, 2008 - 13:28 ET by BlondeAs an anti-FSU fan....I'll add Wake to my list of teams to cheer for.
Best of luck in the upcoming college season.
I'm very excited, every year here in Florida, we have "Breakfast with the Gators", where the re-run last years games in a run-up to the new season. I think it starts next week. (Of course, it coincides with hurricane season, but I try really hard not to think about that).
David Gregory, do you know which damn network you lie for? ~ Uncle Jimbo, @Blackfive
Nadal will always be a
June 14, 2008 - 13:00 ET by balboaNadal will always be a threat in the other majors, but grass just isn't his thing.
B
June 14, 2008 - 13:04 ET by Noel SheppardB,
Yeah, but you know what: wouldn't it be great if a guy with his talent could make the jump to faster surfaces rather than just being a clay specialist? Shouldn't that be the goal if you really want to be number one? ns
Oh absolutely. I'm sure he's
June 14, 2008 - 13:14 ET by balboaOh absolutely. I'm sure he's working on it. He's very close to being just as good on faster surfaces. But his familiarity with clay combined with his talent pushes him over the edge at the French.
To be the best you have to play ANYWHERE
June 14, 2008 - 16:43 ET by UnsaneWasn't that one of the knocks against Pete Sampras for years? (In his case, dominant on grass, of course.)
I agree. To really be the best, you'd have to be dominant no matter what the surface. Which is why I was delighted to see Maria (need I mention her last name???) win on clay for the first time this year. I honestly thought she had a legitimate shot to win the French Open this year until she completely blew it just before the quarter finals.
Res tantum valet quantum vendi potest.
Woods is a classy guy
June 14, 2008 - 15:33 ET by ThisnThatDid anyone notice Wood's classy move at the Open yesterday? He missed a long putt for birdie, left it 6 inches from the cup. Normally, he would tap in. However, Scott Adams had a long putt coming up, so Woods marked his ball to let Scott putt out.
So what, you say? Well, here's the rest of the story...
Just prior to this hole, Woods made a putt, followed by Scott. The crowd was very loud and very large all day long, and as soon as Woods made his putt on that par-5, they began to jostle for position. Maybe that disturbed Scott; maybe not. But, he missed his putt, then missed the 6-inch follow-on. Very disturbing.
So, on the following hole, recognizing that the crowd would move around if he putted out; but would stay still if he didn't; Woods marked his 6-inch tap-in to give Scott a better environment to work in.
I don't know about anyone else, but I think that's classy.
___________________________________
If you can read this, thank a teacher. If it is in English, thank a Soldier. - My barber
Woods is a classy guy.
June 14, 2008 - 22:13 ET by balboaWoods is a classy guy. Golfers are generally a pretty good bunch, according to many who have been around them. Feinstein says it's because of Q school and the path many of them take to make it to the tour.
" Feinstein says it's
June 15, 2008 - 10:56 ET by ThisnThat" Feinstein says it's because of Q school and the path many of them take to make it to the tour."
If it works, maybe then the Congressional Dims (Murtha, Pelosi, Reed, etc) should also go to Q school?
___________________________________
If you can read this, thank a teacher. If it is in English, thank a Soldier. - My barber
Celtics
June 14, 2008 - 17:45 ET by Del DolemonteThey've showed what they are made of. However, I wouldn't be surprised to see a letdown Sunday night, as the Thursday Miracle Game no doubt took a lot out of them. I'd just as soon see them win it all in Boston anyway!
And what, no comments about the first weekend of Inter League play in Major League Baseball? It's been fun to watch the Red Sox play in Cincinnati for the first time since the classic 1975 World Series. They lost Friday night, but are ahead today.
How 'bout em Dawgs?
June 14, 2008 - 19:02 ET by ricklailAny of you that have been around for a while know I am a Tarheel through and through who lives in the shadow of the Pirate nation. I would love to see the Heels holding the ACC football throphy high there in December but that ain't going to happen. So, I have got to go with the DAWGS. Sorry Blonde. The GA-FL game will probably decide the SEC east champ who will go on to beat Auburn, yeah you read right, for the SEC Championship.
I can't believe that Clem's son and Phat Phil are ranked so high. This could be the year that the moving van backs up to Phat Phil's door after losses to Jawja and the Gators.
I don't understand why OSU is considered a # 1. They haven't done anything in the last 2 championship games. I really look for Penn State to win the Big 10. Could be Joe Pa's last season.
Anyway as it turns out it is shaping up to be a great college season. I will give Blonde one thing. Tebow will win his second Heisman. He can kiss it while watching the DAWGS win their first national championship since Bill Dooley and Lewis Grizzard were around.
“A debate is a conflict which clarifies a position. A dialogue is a conversation which compromises a position.” –John E. Ashbrook, The New Neutralism II, P. 7
Good evening, Rick
June 14, 2008 - 22:44 ET by BlondeNo worries....you can pick the Dawgs if you so choose, but that's not going to bother me one iota.
I think my Gators are in the drivers seat this year in the SEC East, bother the Dawgs. They need to learn how to play in Jax to win the SEC, not going to happen this year.
Quite frankly, I hadn't even considered a second Heisman for TT, but now that I have, I like it. Stranger things have happened. Guess I'll just have to buy a bigger redneck belt buckle (the one I have has the Gator logo with a football & a basketball, and the year 2006, "National Champions") with which to aggravate all of my Seminole NOT ON THE TOP 25 LIST (buh bye Bubby Bowden) friends.
Oh, how I've missed college football....just reading the words "Phat Phil" have charged me up. LOL. A good friend of mine has a vacation home in TN, and we play up there this year.....sounds like a lovely weekend to me!
And thanks for the info re: auto races....Noel & I went around and around on "classic" vs tech sport....I'm not sure we ever came to a landing, but it was a fun discussion.
Oh how I love the Weekend Sports Threads...thanks Noel!
David Gregory, do you know which damn network you lie for? ~ Uncle Jimbo, @Blackfive
Give it to Tiger
June 14, 2008 - 22:28 ET by ricklailThe rest of the field may as well go home. Tiger has never lost a major when leading or tied for the lead after 54 holes. That eagle on 18 did it. Go ahead and hand him the trophy. Put out the fire and call in the dogs, the hunt is over. Only a total collapse of the left knee is going to keep him from his 14th major.
“A debate is a conflict which clarifies a position. A dialogue is a conversation which compromises a position.” –John E. Ashbrook, The New Neutralism II, P. 7
Golf vs NBA
June 15, 2008 - 10:58 ET by ThisnThatSunday. After Tiger's big comeback on Saturday. After the Celtics big comback on Thursday. Both in Prime Time on Sunday. Which will draw the biggest audience?
___________________________________
If you can read this, thank a teacher. If it is in English, thank a Soldier. - My barber
Pain in the knee becomes pain in the a**
June 15, 2008 - 22:50 ET by CaringwhiteguyTime to vent. I agree Tiger Woods is the world's best golfer and
perhaps the very best ever. I enjoy watching him. That said I have
had it up to here with NBC's "up close and personal" drivel regarding
Woods. How will the knee hold up? It's Father's Day, Tiger and his
dad were so close, and now he’s a dad too. The ever smarmy Jimmy Roberts
has caused me to reach for the remote untold times during the Open. And
it's not just references to Woods. While live play is taking place NBC
has constantly barraged viewers with human interest segments that go on and on
and on.
Now back to Tiger's knee (he's coming back valiantly from knee surgery in
case you hadn't heard). From the way NBC (and ESPN too) are covering this
event you'd think it was the Bataan Death March and wounded Tiger was being
prodded painfully along at the end of a Japanese bayonet. Pain, Torture,
Suffering. Oh I hope he doesn't limp along too slowly. The Japs
will shoot him for sure.
»→ CWG
June 15, 2008 - 23:03 ET by Cool ArrowYou've got a point.
We're aware of Tiger's rehab, and that's all we need to know.
Anybody who's played much golf knows everything from a blister to an amputation is going to affect your swing.
Not many of the announcers are Doctors, last time I checked, and they'd do better concentrating their commentary on the game of golf.
LYDSEXICS UNTIE
Yeah, it was interesting how
June 15, 2008 - 23:18 ET by balboaYeah, it was interesting how when it looked like Woods might lose, they said, "Hey remember, Woods is basically playing on one leg."
Yeesh. We know about the knee. The knee didn't make him choose that ridiculous shot to the left where he had to take a drop on 16 (I think), or the shot from the rough that he went way right on. Sports broadcasts think they have to fill air with nonsense. They don't.
»→ Meanwile in the short rough
June 15, 2008 - 23:25 ET by Cool ArrowTiger was busy putting together a "no excuses" effort for the history books.
I'm tellin' ya. I hope the man never shows a political bone (left or right).
LYDSEXICS UNTIE