Open Thread


For general discussion and debate. Possible talking point: oil and gas prices.

$139 last Friday. Can you imagine? Over $4 a gallon now nationally, approaching $5 in California. Are we now at the point where this is hyper-inflationary and economically harmful?

Maybe more important, in an environment where Democrats control Congress, and might next year also hold the White House, what are the not only possible but politically viable short and long-term solutions?

Amongst such supply options as ANWR, shale, off-shore, etc., should we also be considering commodities trading regulations in order to reduce the speculative element?

Read comments

Comments Policy

All comments are owned by whoever posted them and are subject to our terms of use. They should not be assumed to represent the views of NewsBusters.

Viewing options

Select your preferred way to display the comments and click "Save settings" to activate your changes.

And now, today's

And now, today's salmonella-free Shrub Report®:

Troy was sacked on this day 3192 years ago (supposedly). No word on Brad Pitt's ankle injury, though. Died on this day: Robert E. "Conan" Howard (suicide in 1936), John Wayne (stomach cancer in 1979), Billy Bats (the guy twitching in the trunk from Goodfellas, in 1970), Deforest "Bones" Kelley (of stomach cancer in 1999) and, on a lighter note, Timothy McVeigh entered Hell on this date in 2001.

Democrats lied, people died. Here is a good take on it.

Here is the latest example of the Left standing on its collective heads and telling the world it is upside-down.

Speaking of the Worst Congress Ever. As usual, they are tackling the important, tough issues.

Huh?

Pennsylvania state employees will be furloughed on July 1st unless the budget is worked out. The state House and Senate respond by passing a smoking ban. Casinos are exempt, of course. Others, however, are not.

The United States are to blame for all the homosexuals in Islam. Of course, who WOULDN'T want to kick these asses?

Oh, the humanity!

She is 63 today, but, boy-oh-boy, she was hot way back when

Heard at DNC HQ: dammit!

The Not Ready For Prime-Time Player bumbles his way to lose more Jewish support. This loser make Bush seem suave and debonair!

The Picture of the Day.

Today's shocker: the UN partners with terrorists.

Cue Nelson Muntz

And, finally, the Clint Eastwood-Spike Lee War heats up

Don't forget

about Ron Paul and his convention.

I only include pertinent,

I only include pertinent, important news on the Shrub Report....

Of course.

My apologies.  We know you would never put anything in the Shrub Report® that might bait you-know-who.

No worries...

Doug Wead, as usual, covered the story honestly -- ignored media bias and all. Doug's "Soviet" analogy is telling, considering the rules made up on the fly this time.
JMR

The tax & spend drug war looks racist in the real world.

Not Ready for Prime Time

"The Not Ready For Prime-Time Player..."

I thought this was going to be an Al Franken update. I think you tapped on something Minn. Republicans should be using from now until the election, if they haven't already. "Al Franken, still a Not Ready for Prime-Time Player." 

*****

"People only insist that a debate stop when they are afraid of what might be learned if it continues." - George Will 

RtS

Here is another candidate for "mother of the year" for your consideration.

"This liberal would be all about socialize -- uh, uh, would be about basically taking over and the government running all of your companies."-Maxine Waters 2008

Holy crap, great story!

Holy crap, great story!

Hey,

Have you seen this story about those hateful "lesbians"?

"This liberal would be all about socialize -- uh, uh, would be about basically taking over and the government running all of your companies."-Maxine Waters 2008

damn "straight:)" what

damn "straight:)"

what are these natives of Lesbos thinking?!?!?!

Let's get back to banning Native-American sports team names...

McCain not ruling out Bloomberg for VP?

Sen. John McCain praised Mayor Bloomberg yesterday - talking up Hizzoner as a strong candidate for governor and refusing to rule him out as a vice presidential candidate.

http://www.nypost.com/seven/06112008/news/nationalnews/mac__mike_still_in_veepstakes_114982.htm

Sigh.

Bloomberg?

McCain keeps trying to give me a reason to not vote for him. As it is, I have to hold my nose just to enter the polling booth, if Bloomberg is on the ticket even that will be tough. The things McCain is saying about oil, etc. and the way he votes on these issues, makes me question if he's really capable of doing what the country needs right now. He'd better hope that it doesn't just come down to judges, since I'm not sure he can be trusted to do the right thing there either.

Democrats: Stuck on Stupid since 2000.

Why would he favor

Why would he favor Bloomburg over his predecessor? Giuliani would make more sense (though not my first choice, either.) 

*****

"People only insist that a debate stop when they are afraid of what might be learned if it continues." - George Will 

Where the H is my duct tape!!!!!

McCain keeps trying to give me a reason to not vote for him.

You and me both, PB.... 

I saw that earlier this AM... 

Not surprising though. What could be more appropriate than a pseudo-Republican choosing a Democrat who decided to call himself a Republican just to get on the NYC ballot!

A matched set.  

mb... I heard this too

mb...

I heard this too this morning..along with all the other usual stick the conservatives in the eye for a day BS for McCain.

Guess it will become unusual now to not hear another soundbite from McCain telling us to just go away...daily.

Bloomie...yeah right...and it would not surprise me one bit. 

"Never murder your opponent when he is committing suicide." ~ W. Wilson

bt....if he takes Bloomberg as his

VP choice, then I'm with you, I WILL NOT VOTE FOR HIM.  No ammount of nose holding on my part could allow me to vote for that ticket. 

"If a man does his best, what else is there"?

General George S. Patton Jr.

Beginning of the Rezko Fallout Here in Illinois

From the Land of Lincoln.

Thought everyone would be interested in this memo from the Illinois State Democratic Party regarding the Illinois Governor who is a Democrat and his involvement in the Rezko situation.

My favorite quote (emphasis mine):
"One thing we earned from the George Ryan case is that we should excise a tumor when it is first discovered; not leave it in the body to continue to spread and do further harm"

The Democrats are calling their Governor a cancer!
Brilliant!

It's appropriate to quote Ted Butler (again)

So I will:

Can you imagine the (legitimate) howls of protest from our politicians and
regulators if there were a long concentration in crude oil that came
close to the short concentration in gold or silver (77% this week).
Unfortunately, for those looking to pin the blame on speculative buying
for high oil prices, the true long concentrations in crude oil run
about a third of the true short concentrations in silver and gold.

 

Combined with yesterday's fully cloaked open letter suggesting the CFTC might want to look into dealers who literally claim to be selling more silver than exists on this planet above ground, things look pretty manipulated beyond just oil, to me...If the CFTC is going to regulate, they should finally, um, get busy actually-regulating. Some of us are getting out of breath from blowing this whistle at them over the years. And I stand by my prediction: When the metals manipulation manure hits the fan and it's clear the CFTC has totally failed, they'll cry for more tax money just as surely as I'll say "I told you so." They'll probably get it, if history's any judge...
JMR

The tax & spend drug war looks racist in the real world.

Twilight Zone Alert

Can't believe this came from a San Fransciso newspaper.

Islam in America's Public Schools: Education or indoctrination.

www.sfgate.com/cgi-b...

 

www.theholyrosary.org

"There is no problem, I tell you, no matter how difficult it is, that we can not resolve by the prayer of the Holy Rosary." -Sister Lucia

Great article...

"While groups such as People for the American Way, Americans United for Separation of Church and State, and the ACLU express outrage at any semblance of Christianity in America's public schools, very little clamor has met the emergence of Islam in the same arena. An occasional press release, such as the one put out by the Minnesota chapter of the ACLU regarding TIZA, will surface, but by and large, the arbiters of separation of church and state or in this case, mosque and state, have gone silent. The same can largely be said for the federal government and, in particular, the State Department. No doubt, Saudi dollars and influence are part of the problem."

Islam in America is nicely exposing Islam - and all kinds of leftard crap as well - to way-long-overdue scrutiny:)

Islam has put the left in a very, very awkward position

This will also bring besieged Isreal's plight much more sympathy - and rightly so...

Can't believe this came

Can't believe this came from a San Fransciso newspaper.

You're right, it's like Pod People took over the paper!

If San Francisco is complaining about it, you know it has to be bad!

CAIR is being allowed to dictate how Islam is portrayed in textbooks. They get away with it by disguising this religious teaching as exploring another "culture."

Islam is a gathering storm

Islam is a gathering storm for libs...

Muslims are staunch moral conservatives...

But they have legions of traditional right wingers here terrified... 

Libs can't figure out what to do about it at present...

There is only one quick

There is only one quick "fix" to the oil supply problem: Kiss the dictator's arse.  Thank you Democrats + RINOs.

Through diplomacy, cajole OPEC into increasing production 2 million bbls per day. That may be difficult, but it is the only way to eas the problem until new supplies can be brought on line.

In the background we should prepare for all out war and bring offshore, ANWR and oil shale all on line. We as a nation could boost our production from 5 --> 8 million bbls per day from those sources given 2 or 3 years of effort.

What's keeping Exxon from bailing out of the USA?

and selling it's remaining USA holdings to Citgo?

All bureaucrats need their projects, plans COMPLETED before they leave office..SO THAT THEY CAN TAKE CREDIT FOR IT!

. Drilling somewhere will take longer than their stay in office... Taxing takes just a moment to impose.

Liberals62%


IranianUranium

Ocean's Boiling

Anyone catch the Ocean City, MD. Tourism ad on Drudge and Fox?

Great fun, and a subtle jab at the Global Warming Alarmists.

So glad I'll be spending my vacations on its shores this year. You know, before the oceans boil up. 

*****

"People only insist that a debate stop when they are afraid of what might be learned if it continues." - George Will 

Let's Do IT!!!

I would love to see the Republicans put out their proposals and get them voted on.  If the Democrats are willing to put their no votes, on these bills, let them do it and then hold them accountable for the price of gasoline. 

If you're a speculator, why wouldn't you bet against the U.S. doing anything to solve it's energy problems, with the Democrats in charge?  I just hope that, somehow, we can get this into the voters minds as they head for the polling booths.  Democrats equal high gas prices and Republicans equal lower gas prices. 

The days of 19.00 per barrel are over, but there's not need for us to be fighting the affects of $134.00 oil, just because the Democrats won't deal with it.  

Democrats: Stuck on Stupid since 2000.

absolutely, let the Demmies

absolutely, let the Demmies squirm in the $5 gal gas world they've created for us

they certainly can't fix it anytime soon - if ever - because the solution probably involves alot of domestic drilling and nuke plants...

and they can't bitch about the crimp on driving and flying - it's great for the environment, and hurts the eeeeeevil oil companies

hey democrats - be careful what you wish for next time:)! enjoy...

Higher gas price = good for everybody

Suburban sprawl, obesity, war in Iraq... they're all tied to cheap gas. Once we can wean ourselves off this commodity, we'll all be much better off. I welcome more expensive gas as the market force that will compel us to innovate our way to a better place. America has always been good at that.

You know what I'm not seeing so much of from the MSM? Someone saying the obvious that Congress is at the intersection of clueless and powerless with regard to "fixing" the price of gas. More government intervention is maybe not the best idea here.

Nut.   Save a SeAL, club

Nut.
 

Save a SeAL, club a liberal!!

blogonator

Blogonator-Do What??? Maybe I missed the sarcasm.

I would really like to have a discussion with my liberal CT neighbors about why our state is so bad. All I here is complaints about how high electricity is, gas, taxes you name it. My neighbors won't even fathom that maybe things are so bad because we have a Democratic controlled house and senate. Yes, our Governor is a Republican but she couldn't do anything if she wanted to. CT is paying the second highest gas prices in the US. Why is that because we have some of the highest state taxes in the US. Now we are getting another 5 cent state gas tax increase come July. The price we pay for gas is just one example of how bad things are in CT. There are tons of houses for sale because people can't afford to live here. Of course no one would want to buy these houses because people want $250,000 for one bedroom houses on minimal land. Our electric rates are sky high and Cl&P keeps getting approved for more rate hikes. Of course it doesn't matter if we cut down on how much energy we use. CL&P has gotten smart and now our delivery service rates go up...not our supply rates. My electric bill is double what my parents pay per month in VA. Even with them running central air all summer. I don't have any A/C. I can't afford the $500 to $600 a month electric bill that my friends pay to run A/C. It's cost $180 to get a driver license in this state. You buy a car they don't tax you for what you pay for the car but for the blue book value. I could be here all day. My point is that I get so tired of hearing people complain in CT that things are so bad when they continue to elect the same people responsible for all this JUST because they are Democrats.

Sorry for the rant! It's very frustrating listening to people complain and then they do nothing about it.

Tighten your belt, ride it out

Why are we turning to the federal government to fix the "problem" of higher gas prices?

We've had cheap gas for decades, artificially cheap. Now that ride is over. The government can't fix this problem. Drill in ANWR? That will bring online comparitively a few drops in the bucket 10 years from now. What to do now? Sell your SUV for scrap. Move closer to your place of employment. Get over your love of cheap plastic imports.

This problem will resolve itself if the market is left alone. Really expensive oil makes other sources of energy much more attractive. T. Boone Pickens is putting up windmills for goodness sake.

http://blogs.wsj.com...

In the short term people might just have to sacrifice and modify their behavior a little. We've done this sort of thing before, back in WWII. If someone with a bit of respectability asked us to do it again, I bet we would. Instead we get the Repubs yelling at the Dems and vice versa about how they're the ones at fault. Government isn't the answer here.

Great ideas blogonator

Those are great ideas but not realistic for some of us. My husband and I don't choose to live in Ct but that's where he is stationed. We can't afford a house closer to the Sub Base. I can't afford a $300,000 house. Any house in the area of the Sub Base we could afford wouldn't accommodate the 5 of us. Of course even if I wanted to sell my house and move closer to where my husband works NO ONE is buying houses right now...at least not around here...and we can't afford two mortgages. Navy housing is not an option because there is not enough of it. Let me get rid of my SUV...that I am still paying on and get a smaller car that won't hold all of us. Last time I checked it's illegal to tie your children to the roof. I would love to get a different car but I can't afford another car payment on top of the ones I am paying. So, while your solutions sound great it's not practical for all of us. So please get off your high horse before you think you know the answers to everyones problems. I do agree that the government needs to stop fighting and do something about it but things are not always as simple as you want to make them out to be.

I don't presume to know your situation

Sorry if that came off as too pushy. I just want people to get beyond two bits of conventional wisdom:

1. Cheap gas is objectively good.

2. The government owes me cheap gas.

I think we'd all be better off if more of us recognized those two statements as false. Of course coming to that point will, as I said, require some sacrifice. Good luck to you regardless.

1. Cheap gas is good. 2.

1. Cheap gas is good.

2. You're right, the government doesn't owe me cheap gas. They owe it to me to stop making it unnecessarily higher. They owe it to me to get the hell out of the way so those who are willing to sell me cheap gas can do it.

the greatest generation...

I don't want to come across un-sympathetic here - but my grandparents raised 5 kids in a pretty tiny house - my grandfather never owned a new car in his entire life, grandma painted the soles of her feet black to hide the holes in some of her shoes...

there are so many economizing things we choose not to do - because we don't want to - not because we can't...

Want to?

At some point you no longer have a choice. Oil is a finite resource. Government can't fix that.

it's not finite  some

it's not finite 

some "dried up wells" that have been sealed for a decade or two have recently been re-opened and lo and behold they have oil in there again

truthmonger

I am not trying for sympathy. My husband and I have never owned new cars either. Both of ours are used. I guess I should have been more specific when I was talking about houses. We do live a good distance away from where my husband works. We bought our house because of it's size 2400 sq ft and it's price. The houses we looked at that were closer to where my husband works were around 1200 sq ft and the asking price was around $300,000. We got our house for half of that.  When we bought our house gas was only around $2.25 so things were a lot different. The point I was trying to make is that things are not always as simple as some people would like to make it...I wasn't trying to get sympathy. Also, this is not your grandparents time either. I just wanted to vent about how bad CT can be and how no one is willing to change it by voting out the Dems who made it this way. I didn't want it to turn into people thinking that I am trying to get sympathy or anything. Just trying to point out how some people can be so loyal to a party that are doing the things those same people complain about.

Daie - Dems never vote their bad apples out of office

I'm in your same boat here in IL. The Dems control the City of Chicago, The Governor, the House and Senate and the courts for the most part. Everyone I know (most of whom are Democrats) can't stand our Governor (Blagovich) they all think he's dishonest and yet they will still vote for him over any Republican.

I do agree with TM though that we all have a lot of comforts we can do without and just because we have to struggle some for a while doesn't justify turning things over to social programs.

The economy will always ebb and flow and go through cycles and everytime it goes through a lower one, Dems want to straddle the country with more entitlement programs that we'll be stuck with for ever and will always be a drag on the economy and keep poor people stuck.

No one here is starving like in other countries unless they are drug addicts who sell their food stamps and spend their welfare on Drugs or alcohol. Poor people can still be treated at public Hospitals and get free vaccinations and other treatment from their health department.

If the government keeps people too comfortable then many won't even try to better themselves. They get stuck because when they start out working they are just to maintain what they get in government benefits. It's hard for many people to work hard and try to advance when they know they can sit back and collect a check and maybe do some cash work on the side and be more comfortable.

Only in America do poor people have cars and big screen T.V.'s.

 

Only in America do poor

Only in America do poor people have cars and big screen T.V.'s.

...and I understand Daie's challenges - these housing prices are completely ridiculous it's true - but my point is Americans have become accustomed to some very nice things - it's become outrageous to think of moving to another part of the world for cheaper living and opportunity - but that's what our ancestors did...

We could move to Northern Canada or South America and set up a colony...

It would be damn hard for me to do actually it to say the least...

I agree TM - and I understand her challenges too

It seems that she is still smart enough to not expect government to solve everything with knee jerk responses like this idiotic energy bill.

Blog, ANWAR could be on line

Blog, ANWAR could be on line and oil flowing inside of 5 years. 10 billion barrels of oil is not a drop. And that is just what the know is there. They say there may very well be more. As for me, I am in the market for a new truck. Looking at a 3/4 ton Hemi. Just doing my part.
 

Save a SeAL, club a liberal!!

bass... That argument

bass...

That argument about taking 10 years so it won't make a difference is BULL S**T, and these people know it. It's a lousy straw man type of argument. If Bill Clinton had not signed off on protecting ANWR 10 years ago, we could possibly have it online today!

If the USA was to go an a drilling spree the price of oil would start to come down.

"Abstain from McCain"

CT, exactly. It would take

CT, exactly. It would take less than 45 days to drill the well, after they had the rig set. The time line of years comes only from the green regs they have to comply with to get in there to start. Stream line the enviro, and you will have oil flowing in a year, start to finish. They can drill, and make a very small footprint and wildlife would florish.
 

Save a SeAL, club a liberal!!

These people infuriate me

These people infuriate me with their screwed up logic!

"Abstain from McCain"

Eisenhower

"...establishment of the original Arctic National Wildlife Range in 1960."

"In 1960 President Eisenhower established the 8.9 million acre Arctic National
Wildlife Range, in order to protect its "unique wildlife, wilderness, and
recreational values.""

 

Clinton...

I never said that Clinton established ANWR, and you know it!

"Abstain from McCain"

Clinton bashing

However, it seems it was easier to do a bit of Clinton bashing rather than note that ANWR has been a protected area since 1960.

And what about 2006 budget?

"...but drilling proponents suddenly found it hard to get the measure
accepted by a majority of the House. That's because Democrats oppose
the overall budget bill, a fact which gave House GOP opponents of
drilling in the Arctic enough leverage to have the matter killed
." (CBS)

"But on Dec. 21, 2005, the Senate blocked – for the
time being – drilling in the wildlife refuge when the Republican
majority failed to secure a 60 per cent majority
needed to prevent a
procedural move. It effectively killed the attempt to approve drilling
in the region" (CBS)

Too bad for you...

Clinton (et al) had his opportunity and did NOTHING. 

But thanks for confirming yet again that you are a guilt-ridden Nanny State Socialist. 

Res tantum valet quantum vendi potest.

???

???

Clinton bashing Giles...

Clinton bashing

Giles... You are very good at 'spin'. You must work for the MSM. 

"Abstain from McCain"

Hey Giles

Could you explain what "for the time being" means?

Are you saying "for the time being" is a term which necessarily refers to a period of no less than two years?

When is "for the time being" over?

  • LYDSEXICS UNTIE

read the article, then

read the article,

then apply your knowledge of recent American history, or google it.

Spin and squirming, you

Spin and squirming, you have a future!

In the Dem party.

"Abstain from McCain"

Well, thinking clearly about it

Well, thinking clearly about it,

he was asking me to parse another author's words. The meaning is clear enough by reading the article.

And it doesn't take much to read about  recent efforts .

Leave the clear thinking to

Leave the clear thinking to me.

"Abstain from McCain"

Thanks Giles

Another author's words introduced into the thread by you

"If you don't know, I won't tell you" is a great comeback every time.

Here you are bolstering your argument with another writer's quote, but couldn't defend it if your life depended on it.

Thanks.

  • LYDSEXICS UNTIE

I agree. Why limit the

I agree. Why limit the bashing to the dumbassity of Clinton when then entire Democrat(ic) party is to blame?

You have just laid out two examples of the inept Democrat(ic)-run Congress thwarting any chance of drilling for oil. Congratulations.

 

Roger... This is one

Roger...

This is one issue I think will backfire on the Dems always siding with the enviros. When people are in the streets screaming for their heads, drilling for our own oil will be a GREAT idea. The Dems will suddenly and magically change their minds. We just need to keep up the pressure just like we did with the Amnesty issue.

 

"Abstain from McCain"

You can thank

You can thank RINOs.

 

 

------------------------------------------------------------

"It could be the answer to our age-old, philosophical question, 'Why are we here?' PLASTIC!"

Schnikeys... Nail on

Schnikeys...

Nail on head!

With McCain leading the way....he has already stopped years of progress...and he is still proud...think Grand Canyon...

Gawd I am sick of that....

"Never murder your opponent when he is committing suicide." ~ W. Wilson

President Tree Hugger

I dare say there's dern few people who have actually been to ANWR.

Fewer still who can school you on the "delicate ecosystem"

But Juan McNugget wants you to know it's there and he's horrified at the thought of holes being drilled in it.

I know, I know, think of the Supreme Court.

  • LYDSEXICS UNTIE

Hi bigtimer,

Hi bigtimer, thanks.

Perhaps it is laziness on part of the GOP and many of its supporters that is causing (or at least greatly helping) the downturn of conservatism.

I think it would behoove Macdaddy a little more on many a level if he stopped by Newsbusters (or at least did an internet search, for crying out loud) to read about some of this.

 

------------------------------------------------------------

"It could be the answer to our age-old, philosophical question, 'Why are we here?' PLASTIC!"

Let me get this right,

Let me get this right, Giles, you are claiming that because a few RINO's who do not represent the mainstream of their party side with the Democrats on a particular issue, namely, oil and gas drilling in ANWR, that this constitutes proof the "Republicans" as a party are blocking drilling in ANWR?

This perhaps explains why you think anthropogenic global warming is a problem.   Your interpretation of that data runs parallel to the above reasoning.

Basic reading comprehension.....

skewed, at best  --

Someone blamed Clinton for lack of drilling in Arctic National Wildlife Refuge - I've pointed out that it was origionally protected by Eisenhower's (R)  signing into being the Arctic National Wildlife Range by a Republican, based on scientific data, and since Clinton's veto, voted down with help from Republicans.

As before, actually reading the cite would help if there is a problem with context.

Science Knows Best, So Shut Up And Do What It Says

So, you won't be shrieved of your guilt until every single one of us completely surrenders to the idea of being ruled by an oligarchy of scientists (whose views, contrary to science can NEVER EVER be challenged, no doubt) that will have total, micromanaging control of our lives?

After all, they will know best, right?

I wasn't raised to want to be a ward of the State.  Apparently you were.

Anyways, Clinton could have permitted drilling in ANWR and did NOTHING.   And spare me the whines about how precious that area is for wildlife - I have actually been north of the Brooks Range.  Here's betting you haven't.

Res tantum valet quantum vendi potest.

better science out there?

So, where is there better science out there showing a lack of environmental impacts?

Have the most recent reports shown a lessening in environmental / wildlife impacts?

Or should we just take your undefined 'been there' as the defining word and proof it is OK to drill?

Or maybe there are real ecological and environmental  reasons why continued efforts to drill have been unsuccessful?

And sweetheart, the rest of your rant, well.......

Sweetie pie

So, I am correct then that you wish to cede as much freedom as possible to science...well, that is, the science that fits YOUR world view?

Trust me, sweetie pie, as one that has been well north of the Brooks Range, we can drill up there.  It's just a mere matter of logistics and those questions have been answered long ago as Prudhoe Bay/Deadhorse, the Dalton Highway and the oil pipeline can attest.  I hardly see the issue with coughing up a mere 2% of ANWR for this project. 

Unless, of course, you are a Leftist hell-bent on strangling America's economy because of overwhelming guilt. 

Res tantum valet quantum vendi potest.

nice try in avoiding the issue at hand

It is not a matter of 'ceding freedom' (and nice try in avoiding the issue at hand), but rather using carefully gathered knowledge to make informed decisions.

So, choosing between your 'trust me' and the informed, detailed, deliberate observations of people with credibility is a no-brainer. 

And the amateur psychology reminds me of a Republican Senator making a video diagnosis (cspan/youtube) ....

Contradictions collapse

Ultimately, "ceding freedom" IS the subject at hand.  I like having economic freedom, don't you? 

Knowing the state of AK as I do, I say drill ANWR.  It couldn't hurt. 

 So, choosing between your 'trust me' and the informed, detailed, deliberate observations of people with credibility is a no-brainer.  In other words, as I have so repeatedly pointed out, the concept of critical thinking, or even thinking for yourself, is lost on you.  Sure, I look at the same observations, but I also include what I know of science and nature to come up with different conclusions sometimes.  In the case of this thread, I am including what I learned up there by living there. 

You choose the "trust me" approach constantly and don't even know it. 

Res tantum valet quantum vendi potest.

CV ?

So, when I see a CV that actually indicates some expertise, some credibility in the field, then your opinion could be considered along with those who have established and demonstrated that expertise and credibility.

A 'been there' doesn't indicate either.

You do realize that in

You do realize that in Eisenhower's time nobody knew there was any recoverable natural gas or oil in ANWR?  The Prudhoe Bay deposit was not discovered until 1967

"President Dwight D. Eisenhower created the Arctic National Wildlife Range in 1960. Seven years later, the discovery of oil just west at Prudhoe Bay began the conflict between oil and wilderness on the North Slope of Alaska. In 1980, President Jimmy Carter signed legislation that doubled the size of the wildlife range, conferred on it wilderness status, and renamed the area the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge (ANWR). In doing so, he set aside 1.5 million acres of coastal plain for possible oil exploration pending further study. And in 1987, the Department of the Interior recommended full-scale oil development on this so-called 1002 area of ANWR"

Even Jimmy Carter, the nincompoop President, recognized the need to develop the petroleum reserves in ANWR and provision was made for this back in 1980.  Clinton and the current batch of Democrats have essentially renegged on this plan. 

Drop the "scientific data" crap.  The original decision was made in the absence of any information about the petroleum resources in ANWR.  This decision by Clinton and the current crop of Dems has its roots in politics and nothing more.  If the MSM were daily trumpeting how the Dems were to blame for high gas prices [which they are] and how pumping one million bbls a day from ANWR could reduce the price of gas by 62 cents a gallon, which no less an authority than Chuck Schumer has admitted, these crooked libs would switch positions faster than a pro at the Chicken Ranch.

make sure you're not wasting

Or you could just do a few things to make sure you're not wasting what you've got and save more than the 62 cents.

The reasons the Refuge area was protected were valid and continue to be so. Impacts beyond the coastal plain were, and continue to be, a concern that impacts decision making.

Or consider The End of Cheap Oil as an Opportunity  (WC)

 

-------

"WHAT DID THE DEPARTMENT OF THE INTERIOR CONCLUDE ABOUT THE
MAGNITUDE OF ANWR OIL RESOURCES?
The Department of the Interior's conclusions about the magnitude of oil resources in the ANWR coastal
plain have been the source of confusion since the DOI ANWR Legislative Environmental Impact Statement
was released. The actual conclusion was:
1. There is a 19 percent chance that oil is present in the coastal plain under conditions that would
allow commercial recovery (Le., large quantity in one place, good quality oil, permeable reservoir
rock).
2. If oil is present in commercially recoverable form, its estimated mean volume is 3.23 billion barrels
of recoverable oil.
in terms of the decision to allow or block leasing of the coastal plain, the DOI assessment means that:
1. There is an 81 percent chance that no commercially recoverable oil will be discovered, In that
case, the total impact of leasing will be restricted to the impacts of the exploratory program, No
permanent facilities will be built –no pipelines, no production facilities, and no permanent crew
quarters.
2. There is a 19 percent chance that commercially recoverable oil will be found. In that case, the expected
vaIue of the magnitude of the oil Iikely to be recovered is 3.23 billion barrels. The value of
this oil must be weighed against the effects, negative and positive, of building and operating the
pipelines, production facilities, and other extensive infrastructure involved in producing this
volume of oil in an Arctic environment..

U.S. Congress, Office of Technology Assessment, Oil Production in the Arctic
National Wildlife Refuge: The Technology and the Alaskan Oil Context,

OTA-E-394 (Washington, DC: U.S. Government Printing Office, February 1989).

 

 

 

 

 

 

Whoops. Wrong again. That

Whoops. Wrong again. That is twice now that you have tried to pass off outdated, incorrect "information" as facts to back up your rather lame and feeble argument.

I guess if you can't dazzle 'em with brilliance, baffle them with bullsh*t, eh?

 

The value of this oil must be weighed against the effects

The work you point to says:

"Technically recoverable oil within the ANWR 1002 area (excluding
State and Native areas) is estimated to be between 4.3 and 11.8 billion barrels
(95- and 5-percent probability range), with a mean value of 7.7 billion barrels
(table 1)."

My cite says:

"There is a 19 percent chance that commercially recoverable oil will be found. In that case, the expected
vaIue of the magnitude of the oil Iikely to be recovered is 3.23 billion barrels. The value of
this oil must be weighed against the effects, negative and positive, of building and operating the
pipelines, production facilities, and other extensive infrastructure involved in producing this
volume of oil in an Arctic environment."

So, improved chance to get 1 more billion barrels......

And note that your cite does not cover ecological issues.

Still a no-brainer. There are way too many ways to decrease the consumption of oil through efficiency. 

Hey Giles, try to keep up,

Hey Giles, try to keep up, will ya? Your off on your stuff here. Are you getting this information from AlGores "cite"?

Save a SeAL, club a liberal!!