What say you, NBers: is this the classic basketball matchup we've been dreaming about for years?
How do you compare this to Celtics-Lakers finals of the past? Is this the beginning of a new stretch of finals between these two great teams?
Man for man, how do you think these teams compare to the great Celtics and Lakers clubs of the past? What are your predictions for the series?














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It's impossible to compare
June 5, 2008 - 21:40 ET by balboaIt's impossible to compare these teams to the ones of the mid-'80s because, for one thing, no one would be able to guard Kobe or Garnett. These guys are athletically on a different plane.
And it was such a different game back then. As someone was saying on ESPN Radio the other day, when McHale clothes-lined someone back then, it was just a hard foul. Now he'd be suspended.
The teams of the '80s were better teams. But I don't think they'd be able to keep up with the athletes of today.
B
June 5, 2008 - 21:45 ET by Noel SheppardB,
Interesting. I had a discussion with some HUGE b-ball fans Tuesday that said exactly the opposite: today's teams couldn't come close to competing with the Celtics/Lakers teams of the 80s. Not even close.
One participant said that nobody today could keep up with Magic...period! ns
Not a clue, NS
June 5, 2008 - 21:57 ET by BlondeMy ex was a HUGE Celtics fan way back when. (I, of course, only bleed orange & blue over football).
But when the Miami Heat started up, we went to see a couple of Celtic games....with Larry, Kevin McHale, Robert Parrish, et. al.
Even though I knew absolutely nothing about the game...it was totally awesome to see. Those guys were unbelievable. Truly.
So, my take on it, as a total non-fan of the game...classic grace vs. new steriod-enhanced athleticisim? The love of the game (whatever game that may be) must favor the classics.
David Gregory, do you know which damn network you lie for? ~ Uncle Jimbo, @Blackfive
Really? How hard would it be
June 5, 2008 - 21:59 ET by balboaReally? How hard would it be to keep up with Magic? Dude's not that fast. And Paul Gasol would take Kareem outside the lane, sink some 25-footers, then cut to the basket, work the inside, especially when Bynum was in the game.
Now, I should say that these Celts and Lakers are not great teams, so perhaps the past ones would fare decently because of that. But I still don't think anyone could cover Kobe or Garnett.
Now, last year's Spurs v. those Lakers and Celts? Spurs win.
Spurs
June 5, 2008 - 22:27 ET by UnsaneYou just HAD to mention the Spurs... :-(
Res tantum valet quantum vendi potest.
Sorry, bud! If it helps, I
June 5, 2008 - 22:33 ET by balboaSorry, bud! If it helps, I was a Reggie Miller-era Pacers guy, and now look at 'em: criminals, sub-par players, and Jermaine O'Neal.
You're absolutely correct.
June 6, 2008 - 12:18 ET by Ten7sYou're absolutely correct. Today's players just don't have the skill level of those even 15 years ago, much less during the NBA's high point during the '80s. That's why they keep getting their @55e5 handed to them at the Olympics, the foreign players aren't as athletically gifted but they have a better understanding of the game.
Very true. A lot of it also
June 6, 2008 - 12:54 ET by balboaVery true. A lot of it also has to do with the rules of the international game, how it's refereed. But again, the athletes are way better. The Celtics or Lakers of the '80s good not have beaten the gold medal winners from the last Olympics.
The '80s era NBA All-Stars
June 6, 2008 - 15:46 ET by Ten7sThe '80s era NBA All-Stars teams could certainly beat them b/c they were more skilled, more disciplined and had greater basketball intelligence than the current crop.
One of the factors that
June 6, 2008 - 13:26 ET by fitzfongOne of the factors that made those Laker-Celtic series of the '80s so fascinating was the sheer hatred and aggression between the two teams. For me, the iconic moment from the '80s version of that rivalry (I wasn't yet born when Don Nelson's shot off the back rim put the Lakers to the sword) was the Kevin McHale clothesline on Kurt Rambis. Back then, the Lakers were fighting the reputation as the superior team who folded in the face of the hardened, blue collar Celtics. The Celtics had some nasty, competitive players...Danny Ainge, Dennis Johnson, Robert Parish, Greg Kite, Cornbread Maxwell, M.L. Carr...and they seemed to enjoy agitating the talented, but soft Lakers. Much of the interest in that rivalry stemmed from the Lakers having to overcome that soft label. And it certainly fanned the flames to have Tommy Heinsohn spouting pro-Celtic propaganda as the color guy on the national broadcast.
In comparison, today's Laker-Celtic "rivalry" seems staged.
"Government's view of the economy could be summed up in a few short phrases: If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops moving, subsidize it." -Ronald Reagan
Bal
June 5, 2008 - 23:21 ET by well99You know your wrong but that is ok your allowed to be.I been watching Bball or listening on the radio back in the day since the 60s.The Lakers and the Celts in the 80s could beat any team in this this era.To be truthful todays players arent overall as impressive as the players in the past.
I respectfully disagree.
June 5, 2008 - 23:24 ET by balboaI respectfully disagree. Today's athletes are leaps and bounds better than that era's. Neither Kareem nor the Chief could cover Gasol, and would get abused by Duncan.
They were better at playing a team game, but they wouldn't be able to keep up. Who do you think would guard Kobe?
Bal
June 6, 2008 - 01:00 ET by well99For the Celts Dennis Johnson for the Lakers I would go with Cooper.
"I respectfully disagree. Today's athletes are leaps and bounds better than that era's. Neither Kareem nor the Chief could cover Gasol, and would get abused by Duncan."
I respectfully disagree with you there Bal.Todays players just get more commercials and have better PR men.They arent better athletes.I like to know who would stop Kareems hook or Birds jumper.
Comparing NBA teams
June 6, 2008 - 02:11 ET by JerI guess I take a middle view. I started watching the NBA in the 50's--the days of Paul Arizin, Dolph Schayes, Clyde Lovellete, Slater Martin, Bob Petit, Bob Couzy, etc.
An all-star team of the best white players from that era wouldn't score forty points against the league's worst team today and would lose by at least 50. Those early teams couldn't run, couldn't jump, and needed about three seconds to get off a shot. And defense was hardly part of the game. With the additions of Russell, Chamberlain, Robertson, Baylor--and later players like Jerry West, Walt Frazier, etc.--the story would be a little different. They would lose by about 20.
The 80's era Lakers were outstanding though, and would beat or at least hold their own against almost any other team from any other era--including the great Celtic teams from earlier decades. But, still, defense just wasn't emphasized nearly as much then as it has been for the past ten years or so. In my opinion, the average NBA player today excels in every single phase of the game-including shooting--over any average player of preceding eras.
Jer
Dennis Johnson could not
June 6, 2008 - 10:37 ET by balboaDennis Johnson could not cover Kobe or Garnett. No way. MAYBE Cooper could do a decent job, but not as good as PJ Brown did last night, or Bruce Bowen.
Kareem would be dead tired from chasing Gasol and Duncan around, and would most likely get pushed out of any position. He'd get his points, but it wouldn't determine the outcome of the game.
Do you not think that the
June 6, 2008 - 13:32 ET by fitzfongDo you not think that the players from the '80s had the raw materials to succeed in any era and would only require the diet and training advances that this era's athletes have to compete on a similar level?
"Government's view of the economy could be summed up in a few short phrases: If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops moving, subsidize it." -Ronald Reagan
Nope. The athleticism is
June 6, 2008 - 13:41 ET by balboaNope. The athleticism is the difference, not technology or diet or training. Remember those moves Dr. J used to make? That happens _every_ night in the today's NBA.
You could be right. I'd
June 6, 2008 - 14:04 ET by fitzfongYou could be right. I'd be inclined to think that the technology, diet and training all contribute to the increased athleticism...and that much of what is done every night in today's NBA wouldn't have happened in the '80s version of the game because personal pride and competitive determination would have seen to it. These days, you hear about "lock-down" defenders...individual matchup specialists like Bruce Bowen. Back then, I think you had better overall team defense. Today's players might have thought twice about driving the lane lest they see Rick Mahorn or Bill Laimbeer at the end of it. I think some of the rules have been tightened to protect the star players and many of the moves that are routine now became so because the rules have created extra space for the "skill players". That Dr. J could make those moves when he could just as easily gotten mugged speaks even higher of his overall excellence, I think.
"Government's view of the economy could be summed up in a few short phrases: If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops moving, subsidize it." -Ronald Reagan
Bal
June 6, 2008 - 20:18 ET by well99Dennis could guard Kobe.The only one he couldnt guard was MJ but Kobe isnt MJ.Not even close.As far as Kareem well he would be running the sky hook all night and Tim and Gasol would of fouled out by 4 quarter.To me most of today's games look sloppy.The team work on most teams isnt there.
You really think Dennis
June 6, 2008 - 20:23 ET by balboaYou really think Dennis Johnson was fast enough to keep up with Kobe? C'mon. And now that Kobe has adopted MJ's fade away jumper? Plus he has two inches on DJ.
I totally agree on team play, but I don't think it would be enough.
Bal
June 7, 2008 - 20:31 ET by well99Yes actually I do.Because Dennis was smart enough to use his team mates to his advantage.You may thing Kobe is the next best thing to sliced bread but to me he aint all that.I have seen far better players then he will ever be.I remember seeing Oscar Roberson and Bill Russell at the Gardens.Those were players.Oscar could of had Kobi's numbers if he he took 25-35 shots a game.Not that Kobi's are all that impressive.
My take:
June 5, 2008 - 21:50 ET by UphillTo me the obvious difference is that currently there is no match-up like that of Magic Johnson and Larry Bird. These two had history before playing one minute in the NBA.
Fakers vs. Celtics
June 5, 2008 - 22:23 ET by UnsaneMy Spurs aren't in it. Who cares?
What a crappy time in sports for Unsane. My Spurs choked away a series against these very Fakers, and Мария Шарапова choked her way out of the French Open!
(On the bright side, I have a new reason to hate France: those savages booed her off the court! But then, they thumbed their noses at Mozart in the late 1770s...)
Res tantum valet quantum vendi potest.
Unsane and the French
June 6, 2008 - 11:37 ET by JerUnsane...For the first time in years, I haven't followed the French Open very closely. Why was she booed off the court?
Jer
BTW....Fortunately, at the same time the French savages were rebuffing Mozart, they were also underwriting the American Revolution.
The savages in France
June 6, 2008 - 21:35 ET by UnsaneAdmittedly, my favorite Russian tennis hottie choked away a match she had all but won, so that may have contributed to her getting booed off the court...but, this IS France. This is the same country, as I noted, snubbed Mozart, perhaps the greatest musician, bar none, the world has ever seen. Now, given that history, who WON'T they snub?
This incident doesn't help their cause. I won't be visiting that country anytime soon. I can safely say that France is the only place on earth I am not open to visiting.
By the way, do you REALLY think the French were underwriting the American Revolution out of the kindness of Louis XIV's heart? Hardly.
Res tantum valet quantum vendi potest.
French kiss...
June 6, 2008 - 22:28 ET by JerDo you REALLY think the boys of '76 gave a flying continental about where Louis' heart was--as long as his checks didn't bounce?
Jer
An English kiss (if you are in France)
June 7, 2008 - 00:44 ET by UnsaneI'm not an idiot, all right? I know damn well what realpolitik is. I also am bright enough to know that it defined Franco-American relations in the beginning. But I also know that the United States went hat-in-hand to other nations - notably the Netherlands - for fundraising purposes for the American Revolution.
That being said, don't expect me to kiss the asses of the French. We'll always have Yorktown...but there is still the matter of the boys of Pointe du Hoc, the Doughboys, and those laid in the cemeteries of Normandy. AND on top of all of this is the fact that France hasn't done jack since Napoleon got his ass kicked in 1815. I for one and sick of hearing how great and wonderful France is when the track record from the past two centuries proves otherwise.
Not to mention that they ARE in fact Germany's b^*!h.
AND THEY SNUBBED MOZART, RIOTED IN RESPONSE TO "THE RITE OF SPRING", AND THEY BOOED MY FAVORITE RUSSIAN TENNIS HOTTIE!!!!!!!!!!!
Res tantum valet quantum vendi potest.
I'm not an idiot, all
June 7, 2008 - 01:14 ET by JerI'm not an idiot, all right?
And I have never implied that you were. In fact, I have complimented your knowledgeable and well-reasoned foreign policy commentaries more times than I can count. That flattery was not delivered to provoke anything in return, but an occasional "thanks" would have been nice.
You recently described yourself as an "arrogant prick" when it comes to matters of foreign policy. I don't mind a reasonable display of the former tendency, but the latter is something I would just as soon avoid.
Jer
Jer
June 7, 2008 - 02:45 ET by UnsaneYou recently described yourself as an "arrogant prick" when it comes to matters of foreign policy. I don't mind a reasonable display of the former tendency, but the latter is something I would just as soon avoid. I'll try, but no promises:-).
Sometimes I have to cave into my arrogant tendencies (what can I say, I have been studying one aspect or another of foreign policy and international relations since I was a teeny Army brat in Germany learning what REFORGER meant and why the Pershings were being deployed in Europe) to get a point across. In that case, I had an unfortunate encounter with a know-it-all who thinks he has game in that arena. I am really a humble guy. Really, I am. But once you cross the line (no, you haven't), prepare for an ass-beating.
Check out the off-topic discussion forums sometime. You might find some interesting topics there.
Res tantum valet quantum vendi potest.
Unsane...
June 7, 2008 - 03:48 ET by JerI'll try, but no promises:-).
Fair enough. :-)
From the time I was nine years old in 1956--maybe it was the occurrence of dramatic international events such as the anti-Soviet Hungarian uprising or Nasser closing the Suez--I developed and maintained a consuming interest in foreign policy and international affairs, which continued relatively unabated for the next twenty years or so. My dream during most of that time was to eventually work in the State Department or the Pentagon. [I also became an "authority"--in my own mind--regarding combat aircraft of the world's air forces.]
However, after finishing law school in the mid-70's, my career path took a different direction, and although my interest in the area is still considerably more than casual, it is nevertheless considerably less intense than formerly.
Although I feel quite capable of defending my positions, if the focus is directed toward international events and foreign affairs issues of the last couple of decades, you could very well "outscholar" me in any such debate. I don't think you could embarrass me though. [Well, maybe occasionally.]
Jer
When my interests began
June 8, 2008 - 03:26 ET by UnsaneFor me, my interests began when I traveled with my family from TX to Germany. Then, at an impressionable young age, I wanted to know why were were in Germany. And so it went from there.
Among the biggest things that happened to me was when I tagged along on a TDY my father was sent on to West Berlin. I got to see the Wall in all its hideous nature well before anyone dared dream it would actually fall! I was nine. Some things you cannot easily erase from the mind...
Res tantum valet quantum vendi potest.
French tennis crowds can
June 6, 2008 - 23:05 ET by balboaFrench tennis crowds can turn on you, especially if they think you're tanking. (Not that I think this is what happened with Sharapova.)
They're not as bad as the Davis Cup crowds of South America, though.
You NEVER boo Шарапова!!! EVER!!!
June 7, 2008 - 02:53 ET by UnsaneLook, she lost a won game...and I'll smack my own (h/t to Jim Rome)...
...but you never ever boo My Favorite Russian Tennis Hottie!!!
If Russia were in NATO, that would be worthy of invoking Article 5 and invading France, dammit!!! :-)
If I were in that crowd, she would have heard booing, followed promptly by yelling and cursing in English, German AND Russian (all me), as I start to kick the asses of Frenchies. And me being part German, I'd have NO problems in that department.
:-)
Res tantum valet quantum vendi potest.
Unsane,
June 6, 2008 - 13:51 ET by RESTLESS 1I agree. This is a dreadfully dead part of the year. Can we just start football season early?
"This liberal would be all about socialize -- uh, uh, would be about basically taking over and the government running all of your companies."-Maxine Waters 2008
Football!
June 6, 2008 - 21:37 ET by UnsaneWell, only if there is any hope for my boys in orange and blue. I of course speak of the only AFC team in the Mountain Time Zone!
Res tantum valet quantum vendi potest.
then you'll be watching
June 6, 2008 - 21:45 ET by botgthen you'll be watching another New England team in the championship
Support our Troops
...and maybe watching them
June 6, 2008 - 21:51 ET by bigtimer...and maybe watching them get defeated again!
Heheee...
Btw Unsane...Go Broncos!
"Never murder your opponent when he is committing suicide." ~ W. Wilson
a big maybe there i like
June 6, 2008 - 21:54 ET by botga big maybe there
i like the Pats chances in the SB better than the Gints chances of getting to it.
Support our Troops
LOL botg... Just ribbing
June 6, 2008 - 22:40 ET by bigtimerLOL botg...
Just ribbing ya' some there...couldn't help myself..and I have felt for Unsane since he has been here with his support for Denver...whom I used to support for years and years also...
May again..who knows...I can't wait for football to start again either...
"Never murder your opponent when he is committing suicide." ~ W. Wilson
Bush is not running
June 5, 2008 - 22:41 ET by botgand the Spurs aren't playing
go Celtics
Support our Troops
So Far...
June 5, 2008 - 22:44 ET by Noel SheppardNBers,
Well, so far, this has NOT been classic basketball...by no means. ns
if Ray Allen gets his shot
June 5, 2008 - 22:49 ET by botgif Ray Allen gets his shot going it will open up the inside for KG and Pierce.
Support our Troops
Not pretty. Both seem a
June 5, 2008 - 22:51 ET by balboaNot pretty. Both seem a little herky-jerky offensively.
Uh-oh...If Pierce's injury
June 5, 2008 - 22:53 ET by balboaUh-oh...If Pierce's injury is serious....it's OVER.
Celts 1-0
June 6, 2008 - 00:10 ET by NortoGo Greeen!
All the ones who were supposed to, came to play.\
YES!
DAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA....... CELT
June 6, 2008 - 00:52 ET by MrShyDAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA.......
CELTICS !!!! :)
I'll root for a team of thugs and criminals versus a Phil Jackson team. I am tired of that smug, bearded Zen guy with all his championships.
I'm not saying the Celts are thugs/criminals, they're not. I hated the C's and loved the L's in the '80's. But these are the '00's, and I want to see the new Big-3 win their first.
* * * SOCKS THE CAT '08 * * *
For REAL Change
It is a lot easier to get to
June 6, 2008 - 09:19 ET by DRM 23It is a lot easier to get to the basket these days with players being able to take 4 steps every time they touch the ball. The shooting in the league today is awfull. One sportscaster said you see more double teaming today. Probably because in the 80's players could hit a open jump shot. I'm sure Gasol could stop the skyhook. NOT!!!! I'm a Celtic fan, but the NBA is just so hard to watch. The refs need to call the game by the book and let the players adjust. If you call traveling.....they will stop.
As a native Southern
June 6, 2008 - 12:07 ET by fitzfongAs a native Southern Californian who stopped watching the NBA as soon as NBC/ESPN/David Stern instituted the Jordan Rules...I say GO CELTICS!
"Government's view of the economy could be summed up in a few short phrases: If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops moving, subsidize it." -Ronald Reagan