Jason: He's the one who demonstrated complete lack of human regard for people
who were incinerated by an unprecedentedly powerful weapon (and
apparently didn't know the difference between VE Day and VJ Day),
people who, your remarks notwithstanding, were indeed civilians.

Okay, so while you previously claimed to have "known all that, believe it or not," and even when I took your word for it, you still fall back with the more liberal POV that arbiltrarily separates civilians from soldiers. Any historian worth their salt will tell you that since at least the Civil War, this arbitrary "line" of yours has become very blurred.

Jason: To say that they had it coming because there was the possibility they'd
be trained as combatants or because they in some way contributed to the
Japanese war effort is just poor moral rationalization, maybe one
degree removed from Ward Churchill saying people working in the towers
had it coming.

Someone should bookmark this statement. There is no valid comparison here. The Japanese really were being trained as combatants, and the victims of 9/11 were IMO, the first (official) casualties of the War on Terror. I could just as easily draw your attention away from the towers to the planes themselves. The lines are blurred. You're trying to make sense of something based on a "shoulda been" argument, and not as how things truly are. 

I think this is one of the main points of misunderstanding here when it comes to any discussions related to war.  

Jason: And exactly who, by the way, decides when the issue is closed and we
can move on?

When we start repeating questions that have already been asked and answered. Please catch up with the rest of us. "Moving on" means learning the lessons that history gives us; not ignoring it based on what we wish were true.

Jason: Modern history didn't begin the day after the Enola Gay
opened its bomb hatch. The events that we deal with now can be traced
back to decisions that were made in the 40s.

But we didn't know for sure until after the damage was done.

Jason: And no, I'm still not saying we shouldn't have used the bomb. The
people on this thread who keep helpfully chiming in,
broken-record-like, to remind us that a land invasion would have been
even worse, are missing the point. I'm not saying it was wrong to do
it. I'm saying it's wrong to act like it's no big deal, and even worse
to get all "USA! USA!" about it, like it was a proud moment in history
rather than a sadly necessary one.

When you acknowledge what was (sadly) necessary about it, you will (in time) lift your head back up and feel no shame. There's a reason why a certain group of Americans are called The Greatest Generation, and they don't have anything to be ashamed of either.

Also noticed no mention of the civilians at Pearl Harbor or the Phillipines either.

-PJ

"Trake: Your lofty convictions are another blemish on the rump of congregational sectarianism." -Tumbler 5/15/07

JasonC

First of all my statement was a sarcastic reply to the post above mocking the revisionists who attempt to rewrite and make history politically correct. Mostly I believe that liberals always believe that the U.S. is the aggressor in any conflict, that we cause most of the suffering in the world and that liberals are too sympathetic to our enemies.

Yes I believe war is horrific and terrible. But I don't believe that we the U.S. should bear any guilt in that war. Japan was a cruel and implacable enemy and we as a nation hated the Japanese as much as anyone can hate any enemy.  I, as trach defended me much more than I could have (thank you Trach), was mocking the continual liberal hand wringing over anything we do militarily, that any sacrifice is meaningless, that our soldiers are labeled as murderers and evil and stupid that somehow we can placate our enemies by talking to them and understanding them. I am tired that the men and women of our military are portrayed in the media as killers and criminals and drug addicts or too stupid to get real jobs. Come down to the Air and Space museum on the anniversary of the dropping of the bomb and see the protesters ignorant in their 20/20 hindsightedness protesting the dropping of the bomb on Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Or the copywriters in the Smithsonian itself who on the copy written for the Enola Gay had the nerve to say "controversial" and decried the huge loss of life. The Japanese have never officially acknowledged much less apoligised for the invasion of China where millions were killed and the Rape of Nanking where estimated at 400,000 people were individually murdered. Their brutal and execrable treatments of POWs and the slaughter of  100's of thousands civilians during the occupation of the Phillipines. Personally I believed we saved millions of lives. We were going to invade japan. It was estimated that we would sustain 1 million casualties. If that were the case you got to figure 5 to 10 million Japanese casualties. Many of them would have been civilians. No it wasn't a pretty way to end the war but it did.

When I came home from Vietnam, I was called a baby killer, and murderer and other things and I was not any of those things. I was supposed to feel guilty about my service to my country, I wasn't in fact I was proud that I went and happy I wasn't maimed or dead. The left, including lib enablers like you, continue that lying tradition trashing all things military dredging up the old lies about Vietnam to make your points about Iraq or whatever. You may not believe this but I thought the invasion of Iraq was a mistake, but I don't blame or belittle the soldiers and I don't have much compassion if any for the insurgents or their civilian sympathizers.

Personally I felt you were brighter than that and pick up on my sarcasm and mockery. No but you decided that you had a point to make using my statement and me personally as an example of conservative inhumanity and indifference and ran with it.

The modern fear of weapons of mass destruction is laughable, any way many people are killed is a weapon of mass destruction in my book. What is the difference if one bomb killed thousands or or one bombing raid using thousands of bombs killed thousands. For that matter Ghengis Khan was a weapon of mass destruction. No living thing made it out of any city that fought him. I am very glad this country was spared the horror of WWII, but we did get a taste of it on 9/11/01 and it wasn't pretty. But 9/11 was more than two weeks ago so no one can remember it.