For general discussion and debate. Possible talking point: not a good night for Hillary.
Sure, she won in Indiana, but not by much. And, North Carolina, no matter how you spin it, was a disaster.
Does she have to get out now? Will Democrat leaders start putting the pressure on her?
That's certainly not the way it looked during her "victory" speech last night in Indiana.
On another note: how much do you think Operation Chaos impacted the results in the Hoosier state?
Comments Policy
She is toast
May 7, 2008 - 10:25 ET by shawn228Yes, we have all said it before, but it is impossible for her to win now, even if she is awarded the Florida votes.
I believe Operation Chaos certainly had its effect on the campaiyn, but I still believe Democrats will be united come November.
Its Crazy
May 7, 2008 - 10:24 ET by MeanderingYes Hillary should leave, but she won't, which is good for conservatives. Let them fight with each other until both have no integrity left.
I don't think operation chaos had much of a result in Indiana, but its something the liberal media will blame because instead of reporting the facts they just look where to put the blame, because it couldn't possibly be them that's the problem. Give me a break!
What?
May 7, 2008 - 10:33 ET by general companyLet them fight with each other until both have no integrity left.
What? They have integrity left?
"Television is a freak show" Bernie Goldberg
Touché
May 7, 2008 - 10:41 ET by MeanderingTouché
She's done but I don't
May 7, 2008 - 10:25 ET by taterShe's done but I don't think she'll get out. That's the one benefit about Hil, she won't a little thing like logic get in her way of getting what she wants. Anyone who disagrees is going to get it.
Operation chaos was enough to give her 51% of the vote. If not she probably loses by 3-5 points.
"They need to have a course in college called common sense and everyone should take it. Problem is there isn't too many people that could pass or teach it." -my grandfather
Her campaign owes Hillary enough $$$
May 7, 2008 - 10:31 ET by sarcasmoThat she is unlikely to immediately get out of the fundraising portion of the race, but I suspect we'll see less TV from her from now on. I'm beginning to wonder if it's a good idea for political campaigns to borrow money, especially considering the government's level of debt. There are all sorts of rules about money & campaigns, but there's nothing whatsoever in those voluminous rules about campaigns going into debt up to their eyeballs.
JMR
The tax & spend drug war looks racist in the real world.
Drudge has a headline this
May 7, 2008 - 10:50 ET by motherbeltDrudge has a headline this AM that says she's loaning herself another 6.4 million.
She's not going anywhere. Not right now, anyway.
And now, today's Shrub
May 7, 2008 - 10:31 ET by Roger the ShrubberAnd now, today's Shrub Report®:
63 years ago today, Germany unconditionally surrendered to the Allies, six years to the day when Hitler and Mussolini created the "Rome-Berlin Axis".
Here's a great but sad story, a worthy read.
So, this man's career is only worth 1/54th of what a pair of his pants are?
Yep, there's nobody meaner, tougher, and more macho than Philly Flyers fans.
Obama does it with smoke and mirrors…
Rough week in disaster history. Typhoon in Burma earlier this week, Hindenberg anniversary yesterday, Lusitania sinking today…
Man, just like Bush did after Katrina hit News Orleans.
Yeah, that's it. I'm Amish. That's the ticket!
Democrat(ic)s refuse to move on the ethanol catastrophe because they fear "unintended consequences". Sure, NOW they decide to look out for those, long after creating many…
I know, I know, douchebag Leon is gone, but here are two more shining examples of his wisdom: Al-Qaeda is hardly an influence in Iraq. And Iran is not involved, either. What a genius.
Keeping in theme with yesterday's "Brother loving sister" NB article…
Super Bowl MVP attends the Kentucky Derby.
A Religion of Peace Update.
Here's a brief glimpse into the mind of a Saudi politician.
Global Warming worshippers dealt another blow.
Recession worshippers dealt another blow.
And, finally, Hillary hires a new fundraiser.
Here's a great but sad
May 7, 2008 - 10:57 ET by Jack BauerIt is indeed. It brought a lump to my throat, and a tear to my eye. God bless John Challis.
Ditto for me
May 7, 2008 - 16:48 ET by general companyThanks for passing along Roger, sent it to a few folks as well.
"Television is a freak show" Bernie Goldberg
RE: Smoke and mirrors....
May 7, 2008 - 10:58 ET by R D HelmRog, that bumper sticker at the bottom of the page says it all about Obama and his supporters.
But we wouldn't want to dare to question their, ah, patriotism or anything.
Like hell we wouldn't.
What the American people are looking for is somebody who can solve their problems. - Barack Obama, April 27, 2008
This is really inspiring
May 7, 2008 - 10:59 ET by Dan The Man 2This is really inspiring "A Beaver County church had planned a fundraiser, but John and his family asked the church instead to conduct the event and give the money to a fifth-grade boy in Beaver County who has a brain tumor.
"His family can use it more than we can," John said. "That's just common sense. Someone does something good for you, then you help someone else."
To be charitable for someone else in need. Im not sure I would have done the same.
Nuke em til they glow then shoot em in the dark.
And now for today’s
May 7, 2008 - 12:44 ET by TruthMongerAnd now for today’s Jesus-inspired "Anti-defamation-of-Semites™" re-re-re-report…
[Koran 2:136] Say (O Muslims): We believe in Allah and that which is revealed to us and that which was revealed to Abraham, and Ishmael, and Isaac, and Jacob, and the tribes, and that which Moses and Jesus received, and that which the prophets received from their Lord. We make no distinction between any of them, and to Him we have surrendered.
http://a4theroad.blogspot.com/2007/05/religion-koran-reading-sura-2.html
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/notislam/misconceptions.html
Partner with Islam…
http://progressivemuslims.org/
http://www.irw.org/
http://www.islamic-relief.com/
http://www.islamic-charity.com/
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/
http://www.mdda.org.uk/web/index.php
http://www.muslimheritage.com/Default.aspx
Meanwhile – Roger’s evil twin airs daily dirty Christian laundry in….
THE FORBIDDEN FRUIT REPORT™
some good ol' general bigot stuff - the classics!
Jews are cheap:
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20061129092512AAlAQeW
Catholics are peds:
http://www.planetarymovement.org/2005/04/25/divine-intervention/
Mormon’s are just plain freaks, man…http://www.exmormon.org/mormon/mormon178.htm
bit o' classic gay bashin’
http://www.sacbee.com/101/story/338842.html
http://www.jewsonfirst.org/06c/gr096.html
And Jesus said – let’s “voodoo impale some Monkey’s...?”
http://www.interfax-religion.com/?act=news&div=3782
When monks crave porn:
http://www.interfax-religion.com/?act=mosaic&div=194
-----------------------------
REMEMBER THE WORD OF GOD - LOVE YOUR ENEMY:)
http://www.dougbrittonbooks.com/onlinebiblestudies-irritationandangermanagement/loveyourenemy-lovingallyourenemies.asp
Does anyone read these links from a known bigot
May 7, 2008 - 12:48 ET by Dee Bunklike TM. Sorry TM but your logic is so warped and bigoted that I'd never ever click on one of your links.
intelligent people have the
May 7, 2008 - 12:54 ET by TruthMongerintelligent people have the courage to read, and learn...
other's burn books, and even Jews occasionally, maybe Muslims someday:)...
Yeah you would know a lot about how Muslims burn books and Jews
May 7, 2008 - 13:04 ET by Dee Bunkit's sad that you want innocent Muslims burned too. Leave the innocent Muslims out of it Truthmangler. The innocent peaceful ones are trying to separate themselves from the radical ones and you keep lumping them together.
Try reading something of value rather than terrorist propaganda once in a while, then maybe you can become the "intelligent people" of which you speak.
definitely a cry for meds,
May 7, 2008 - 14:50 ET by TruthMongerdefinitely a cry for meds, I'd say:)...
here ya go
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20060712170607AA61BT6
Wow Truthmangler - you take meds based on Yahoo answers?
May 7, 2008 - 15:05 ET by Dee BunkNo wonder you are so nonsensical, messed up and bigoted against peaceful Muslims and Christians. It makes sense now that drug induced brain damage brought you to the point of lumping peaceful Muslims with the terrorists and making peaceful Christians out to be worse than terrorists.
You should see a real doctor not internet kids for your medical problems.
trash-talkin' high five,
May 7, 2008 - 15:21 ET by TruthMongertrash-talkin' high five, bro
we're really learning so much about inter-faith peace relations here:)
see how easy it is to play your stupid bigot game?
May 7, 2008 - 15:22 ET by Dee BunkSo when are you going to stop it?
easy is all good
May 7, 2008 - 15:28 ET by TruthMongerit's very easy - when the bigotry stops:)
i stop
So stop being a bigot truthmangler- it's that simple
May 7, 2008 - 15:42 ET by Dee BunkYou do nothing but encourage bigotry with your bigotry. It's contagious. So if you want to improve religious relations, stop spreading your bigotry. There is a difference between Muslims who denounce terror and those who condone and perpetrate it. Stop lumping them together and stop comparing modern peaceful Christians to book burning, Jew killing, American Killing, Christian killing terrorists. It's absurd.
off the deep end
May 7, 2008 - 13:11 ET by candanceA self-professed Christian pasting verses from the Quran to buttress his claim that Muslims follow Christ.
Of course he forgets to mention that in Surah 4 and 5 Mohammad blasts the Trinity as heretical, claiming that Jesus was "no more than an apostle" and that a "painful chastisement" will fall on anyone who calls Jesus the Son of God.
Mohammad then goes on to explain how the disciples actually crucified Judas Iscariot, sent Jesus away in hiding, and told everyone Jesus died and rose again.
So Jesus was not God in the flesh, was not sacrificed, and never did anything to save us from our sins.
...but Muslims have a lot of "respect" for him, dontcha know!
which is why I'm not
May 7, 2008 - 15:19 ET by TruthMongerwhich is why I'm not Muslim:)
my "claim" as you call it is that Muslim's follow Christ as a prophet - not as a deity like we do...
...but He is still elevated higher than the Jews put Him
Contributing a couple of links.
May 7, 2008 - 12:59 ET by Dave in TexasIn economic news that you won't be hearing about:
Oil prices help Texas rake in $10.7 billion surplus
Study: New home sales outpacing construction
I came late to the
May 7, 2008 - 10:34 ET by Hunter12I came late to the discussion about John Coleman and AGW, but I was researching something about the IPCC and found this item, which explains why the Global Warming debate is over.
"Nate Dowden had noted that there are 42 people in Colorado that had participated in the IPCC's report. He had contacted several of them to participate in this symposium, and they all declined to participate once they found out that there would be other participants who would be speaking to the AGW skeptic's point of view. Nate had emphasized to them that the forum would not be a debate, but that it would be an opportunity for them to relate their own role in how the IPCC came to their conclusions. Dr. Gray added that once the IPCC members find out that he, Dr. Gray, will be a part of a public discussion, they absolutely refuse to participate - they're afraid to debate."
They must not feel they have too solid of position to defend. This observation also appeared in the cited article:
"Dr. Gray offered a wager that in 5 to 10 years, we will see a cooling trend in the earth's climate and that there is current evidence that the cooling has already started."
"An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last." - Sir Winston Churchill
Another hypocrite
May 7, 2008 - 10:34 ET by sarcasmoAnd more proof that the tax & spend drugwar, despite all the denials, isn't anything resembling colorblind.
JMR
The tax & spend drug war looks racist in the real world.
Cool!
May 8, 2008 - 03:36 ET by UnsaneSo, this means then I can open "Unsane's Drug Market" when I get back home!
I'll sell meth, pot, and anything under the sun there in plain view!
Then, when the cops come by, all I need to do is show up at the door and say "Why, officer, is there a problem???"
The cop will then say, "No, you're white. Keep doing what you're doing."
(A vision of the world of one who violently, intensely contorts himself in order to turn a public health concern into a civil rights issue. Last I checked, that approach failed miserably in pot-crazed AK in 2004...)
Res tantum valet quantum vendi potest.
→ Unsane
May 8, 2008 - 03:39 ET by Cool ArrowMy dog had a meth habit.
Suffered from several nervous ticks.
♣ a seal
Then I may as well refute Unsane, too...
May 11, 2008 - 13:23 ET by sarcasmoOr rather, Nat Hentoff has already done the job...See also the very interesting race/drug stats at the end of this one.
JMR
The tax & spend drug war looks racist in the real world.
Can HRC just bail now and
May 7, 2008 - 10:35 ET by balboaCan HRC just bail now and get...this...OVER with already.
No way Bal. She will never
May 7, 2008 - 10:48 ET by RESTLESS 1No way Bal. She will never spit the bit. She is no quitter.
Besides, do you really hate to see conservatives having fun so much you would take our entertainment away?
Lol. Nah, it's not that. I
May 7, 2008 - 10:49 ET by balboaLol. Nah, it's not that. I do enjoy the conspiracy talk about why one MSM outlet is doing something intentionally to help Obama, while another is intentionally covering a story to help Hillary.
Drudge says this AM she's
May 7, 2008 - 10:55 ET by motherbeltDrudge says this AM she's lending her campaign another 6.4 million. She will strangle the fat lady......
"She will strangle the fat lady......"
May 7, 2008 - 11:05 ET by RESTLESS 1Funny line, but a little too obvious. The fat lady will probably be found in a park in DC. with "self inflicted" gunshot wounds.
But with mysteriously-little
May 7, 2008 - 11:10 ET by sarcasmoBlood on the scene, as if the gunplay may have actually happened elsewhere, but we're not s'posed to think about that aspect of it. The very idea that those in power might conspire to do & then do bad things to stay in power is obviously "a conspiracy theory," after all. :)
JMR
The tax & spend drug war looks racist in the real world.
of course not
May 7, 2008 - 11:21 ET by candanceAnd police will say the shot wound was self-inflicted even though it would have been physically impossible for someone to get a gun situated that way. Then when their spouse cries cover up, they'll also end up committing suicide even though they had every reason to live....
Wasn't it terrorist Abu
May 7, 2008 - 11:24 ET by motherbeltWasn't it terrorist Abu Nidal that they found with 16 bullet holes in him and suicide note pinned to his chest??
Unfortunatly with the Clinton Political Machine's track record..
May 7, 2008 - 12:27 ET by Britcomlook for Hillary to take the nomination after her opponent dies in an unfortunate plane crash like Ron Brown.
---
Communist vs. Statist '08
Q. Is Panamanian born John McCain a "Natural Born Citizen"
Superdelegates to sue???
May 7, 2008 - 12:41 ET by motherbeltI just heard on Rush that some of the Dem Superdelegates are talking about suing to get her out of the race!
Has anyone heard about this anywhere else?
Also: Correction: I misunderstood the headline (didn't read the article)...HRC is not lending herself 6.4 million today...that's what she has loaned herself in the past month.
But that's still a big investment for her to write off....
Oh mb...isn't that
May 7, 2008 - 12:43 ET by bigtimerOh mb...isn't that priceless...what goes around comes around.
Trial lawyers are one of the parties biggest contributors...Hill and others have been doing this or threatening to do this to our side for years now when election time rolls around...
I missed that on Rush today...I don't doubt it one bit.
"Never murder your opponent when he is committing suicide." ~ W. Churchill
Yeah, that would be rich!
May 7, 2008 - 12:58 ET by motherbeltYeah, that would be rich! But I don't know...Rush sometimes talks off the top of his head...speculating. That's why I wanted to know if anyone else heard. I could have misunderstood, but I don't think so.
Or found dead in a park
May 7, 2008 - 12:47 ET by NL207Or found dead in a park somewhere, the victim of an apparently self-inflicted gunshot wound.
Of course, he could as likely be found dead in his bed of an apparent heart attack.
Logically? Yeah.
May 7, 2008 - 10:51 ET by sarcasmoFiscally? No.
That's the power of debt to distort campaigns despite all the other money-rules in politics, which look more than a bit ironic at this point, IMO.
JMR
The tax & spend drug war looks racist in the real world.
Bal, I hate to tell you, pal, but the only way Broom Hitler isn'
May 7, 2008 - 11:03 ET by R D HelmBal, I hate to tell you, pal, but the only way Broom Hitler isn't going to stay in this all the way to Denver is going to be if she stops breathing.
LOL-And I am not totally confident even that would do it.
What the American people are looking for is somebody who can solve their problems. - Barack Obama, April 27, 2008
Take a hypothetical Republican primary . . . .
May 7, 2008 - 10:37 ET by Caringwhiteguy. . . . assume there are two candidates, a white male and a black female. Assume their voting records and stated intentions, while a little different at the margins, are fairly close. Assume white voters cast their ballots in favor of the white male by a margin of 92% to 8%.
Does MSM describe the white Republican voters as racist, sexist or both? How big of a story would this be across MSM and how long would it get major play?
History
May 7, 2008 - 10:39 ET by MeanderingThey would never let it go. It would be written about in history books how conservatives in that election still hold racist/feminist views and the party would never live it down.
Even if they nominated the
May 7, 2008 - 10:53 ET by mattmEven if they nominated the Black candidate they would still be portrayed as racists who only chose a token Black to deflect criticism; and the nominee would be callled an Uncle Tom...
See, if you're not a white boy and you're a Republican, you're a traitor. It's part of the racism of the Left.
Thought it kinda ironic
May 9, 2008 - 00:26 ET by general companyThought it kinda ironic last night while watching the returns, they flashed under the screen that something like 68% of white males voted for Hillery, and 89% of all Blacks voted for Obama. The ironic thing was that they suggested of the 10% of Repubs that voted 5% each voted for either Hillery or Obama. You see the Dems have always been the racist, it is them whom bring it up and are keeping tabs. I know white trash down here that are still openly biggioted that will ONLY vote for Dems.
Edit: sorry, some of this is uncalled for to say the least : [ GC
"Television is a freak show" Bernie Goldberg
Hillary's chances
May 7, 2008 - 10:37 ET by candance-Operation Chaos gave her Indiana. She won the state by a mere 20,000 votes.
-NC was a lost cause before she ever stepped foot there. I know too many people in that state and ALL of them told me Obama was their favorite.
-She won't drop out because West Virginia and Kentucky are up next...prime real estate for her to pick up delegates.
-Whoever wins come November, Dems will unite regardless and beat McCain handily.
Hillary Clinton - Movie Star
May 7, 2008 - 11:03 ET by WoodyMThey need to make a movie starring Hillary Clinton, and they can use scenes from these past classics.
First is "Animal House" where the character played by John Belushi tries to rally the fraternity with "Over? Did you say over? It's not over until we decide it is."
The other is "Fatal Attraction," in which Glenn Close's psycho character says, "No, it's not going to stop. It's going to go on and on," as she destroys anyone keeping her from her prize. But, instead of killing rabbits, Hillary kills cats.
If you think the GOP is AWOL in all this, you would be right.
May 7, 2008 - 11:17 ET by R D HelmAs, sadly, they are in no position to capitalize on the current disarray among the dems over Barry-O vs. Broom Hitler.
There are some rumblings that a leadership change my be in the works, but something tells me it may just be too little, too late.
I bet the repubs now wish they hadn't voted to double the size of the federal government, as well as bring us an entitlement program that, should SS not get to it first, is going to break the financial back of this country.
The republicans have abandoned their base, and I believe their base is going to abandon them in November.
What the American people are looking for is somebody who can solve their problems. - Barack Obama, April 27, 2008
RD... Have no fear,
May 7, 2008 - 11:21 ET by Clear thinkerRD...
Have no fear, somehow people like you and I will be blamed for the GOP's demise.
"Abstain from McCain"
Ain't that the truth.
May 7, 2008 - 11:25 ET by Britcom---
Communist vs. Statist '08
Q. Is Panamanian born John McCain a "Natural Born Citizen"
and more!
May 7, 2008 - 11:27 ET by candanceWe'll also be blamed for dead soldiers in Iraq, more aborted babies, and jobs lost overseas to communist mandates....and God have mercy on us if Al Qaeda launches another attack!
Ct, the GOP is already DOA.
May 7, 2008 - 11:37 ET by R D HelmThey just don't know it yet.
Up until about three days ago, I thought McCain was going to have a pretty good chance against whichever dem takes the field in the general election.
The more I see of what he is doing, the more it appears that he is headed for defeat in November. He has done next to nothing to really distinguish himself from the dems he will be facing.
Many of my conservative friends have informed me that, should McCain show up at the La Raza event, they will consider that the proverbial last straw and either stay home or vote libertarian. If McCain is smart, he will bow out of appearing before those hideous people, and fast. Somehow, I don't think he is that smart.
What is worse, no matter who the dem candidate ultimately is, 90%+ of the black vote is still going to go for the dems. Even if it is Hillary. Sure, some will stay home, a handful might even vote for McCain but, at the end of the day, they will mostly "run home to mamma." Old habits die hard.
McCain's only real chance now is that his opponent self-destructs shortly before the election.
What the American people are looking for is somebody who can solve their problems. - Barack Obama, April 27, 2008
If the GOP has any sense at
May 7, 2008 - 11:40 ET by NL207If the GOP has any sense at all, the upcoming election will be about Reverand Wright. It may even be about Ethanol fuel, and it might be about prohibition of oil explortion and production within the US. The Dems will take a beating on all of these issues.
NL207,
May 7, 2008 - 12:19 ET by R D HelmUp until this weekend, I thought for sure that Barry-O had irretrievably lost middle America, but the pre-primary poll results started coming in suggesting otherwise.
The results in yesterday's two primaries have confirmed my worst fears about the gullibility of many members of our electorate. The "stupid factor" is going to loom large in this election, and will be extremely difficult for the castrated republicans to overcome.
When you factor in McCain, who seems to spend more time attacking his own party rather than the dems, and who is about as painfully weak a candidate as it gets, well, let's just say that it is really difficult to raise any real optimism here.
What the American people are looking for is somebody who can solve their problems. - Barack Obama, April 27, 2008
I grant you that McCain is
May 7, 2008 - 12:41 ET by NL207I grant you that McCain is not a strong conservative candidate. In fact, he is nothing more than a 60's-70's Democrat. We call those 'Republicans' today.
I encourage you to be more optimistic. The nation as a whole does not want what Obama is selling. So far he really hasn't had to define himself. The Dems are sick of HRC. She is not radical enough for their mainstream. She also has more baggage than a Roman Legion. He gets the nod there just by not letting Reverand Wright or his other disreputable past connections stick to him. Wait until the general election.
Well RD... If you are
May 7, 2008 - 11:41 ET by Clear thinkerWell RD...
If you are correct you will be one dollar richer.
"Abstain from McCain"
LOL.
May 7, 2008 - 12:01 ET by R D HelmYeah, by a whopping $0.12. :-)
What the American people are looking for is somebody who can solve their problems. - Barack Obama, April 27, 2008
We still have the nuclear option...
May 7, 2008 - 11:51 ET by BritcomMcCain could be struck from the ballot as ineligible.
I have been thinking about the problem of who would have standing to challenge McCain's candidacy and I think it would be a GOP Elector (as in Electoral College) from a state that throws all of its votes to the winner of that state's primary. Because McCain was not born in the US (and therefore apparently Constitutionally ineligible for the Presidency), but is the candidate the Elector is obligated to vote for, the Elector could sue for disenfranchisement.
---
Communist vs. Statist '08
Q. Is Panamanian born John McCain a "Natural Born Citizen"
You know McCain is an
May 7, 2008 - 12:07 ET by Dan The Man 2You know McCain is an American citizen period.
Nuke em til they glow then shoot em in the dark.
So is Schwartzenegger, and he can't run
May 7, 2008 - 12:30 ET by Britcom---
Communist vs. Statist '08
Q. Is Panamanian born John McCain a "Natural Born Citizen"
Britcom, actually, that contention has a far better chance
May 7, 2008 - 12:17 ET by R D HelmBritcom, actually, that contention has a far better chance against Obama than MCain.
LOL-But I'll give you an "A+" for effort here.
What the American people are looking for is somebody who can solve their problems. - Barack Obama, April 27, 2008
Questions
May 8, 2008 - 03:41 ET by UnsaneBecause McCain was not born in the US (and therefore apparently Constitutionally ineligible for the Presidency)
Some simple, basic questions for you then:
1) Why is my sister not a German citizen? She was born in Germany, after all.
2) If this is the case, how come the AF isn't running an operation (let's call it Operation Patriot Stork) where expectant mothers who happen to be overseas as wives of military personnel, diplomats, and other government employees (example) aren't flown home regularly to give birth in the United States in order to ensure their children are U.S. citizens upon birth? And why wouldn't operations like that NOT have been going on for decades?
Hint: "You're in denial" is NOT an answer. "You're a McCain lover!!!" is likewise not an answer, and a lie as well.
Res tantum valet quantum vendi potest.
Answer to Unsane
May 10, 2008 - 16:34 ET by Britcom1) Many European nations operate under the Roman Civil Law system; the US, UK, Canada, Australia, and other British Commonwealth nations operate under the British Common Law system. Roman Civil law citizenship passes by blood, or naturalization, British Common law citizenship passes by birth on sovereign soil, or naturalization. (naturalization is not natural birth even if it takes place "at" birth because naturalization is citizenship bestowed by virtue of a statute, not common law birth on the soil.
While a statute can supersede a common law precedent, statute cannot supersede a common law precept ensconced in the language of the Constitution. The Constitution, by design, always has supremacy over Congress, the President, and the Courts, because all three receive their authority from the Constitution (the Constitution is a Common Law Contract). The Constitution received its authority from the People, and the People received their authority from the King (via the Treaty of Paris which surrendered the American Colonies after the American Revolutionary War) and the King got his authority from God who owns the whole of the Earth and all of its inhabitants.
As long as the US Constitution exists unchanged, the British Common Law system will be the default law of the land where Constitutional law or Statute law do not speak.
2) Because the Constitution's "natural-born" disability applies EXCLUSIVELY to POTUS candidates; and only a Constitutional Amendment can remove it; and because the Congress hasn't offered such an amendment because they don't care if your foreign born children can qualify to be President some day.
John Jay wrote in the "natural born" clause and the rest of the Founders endorsed it. Jay apparently didn't want anyone with dual citizenship or dual loyalty to be eligible for POTUS. He probably assumed such a clause would insure that POTUS candidates would not have divided loyalties.
Those who disagree with John Jay's "natural born" clause, should not be arguing the unfairness of it, they should be campaigning for an amendment to remove it. An amendment is the only remedy available. Neither the Congress (through legislation), nor the Supreme Court can change the meaning of the Constitution, so appealing to them is pointless.
An Amendment may be proposed by either the people, or the Congress, but such an amendment requires ratification by a majority of the States before it could take effect.
---
Communist vs. Statist '08
Q. Is Panamanian born John McCain a "Natural Born Citizen"
Long on blather
May 11, 2008 - 04:14 ET by UnsaneLong on blather, short on answers to the questions.
I repeat myself (after modifying my first question for clarity):
1) Why is my sister (born to two U.S. citizens) not a German citizen, but rather, an American citizen? She was born in Germany, after all.
2) If this is the case, how come the AF isn't running an operation (let's call it Operation Patriot Stork) where expectant mothers who happen to be overseas as wives of military personnel, diplomats, and other government employees (example) aren't flown home regularly to give birth in the United States in order to ensure their children are U.S. citizens upon birth? And why wouldn't operations like that NOT have been going on for decades?
Hint: "You're in denial" is NOT an answer. "You're a McCain lover!!!" is likewise not an answer, and a lie as well.
As long as the US Constitution exists unchanged, the British Common Law system will be the default law of the land where Constitutional law or Statute law do not speak. Again, show me where this is WRITTEN. For one thing, the citizens of Louisiana will be very surprised to see this, as the basis of their law is NOT English commom law.
Those who disagree with John Jay's "natural born" clause, should not be arguing the unfairness of it, they should be campaigning for an amendment to remove it. An amendment is the only remedy available. Neither the Congress (through legislation), nor the Supreme Court can change the meaning of the Constitution, so appealing to them is pointless. Really? You've missed out on some Supreme Court decisions of late then. Again, the second question is relevant here. Trust me, if military personnel were stationed overseas, and knew that if they had children overseas where they are stationed could not be citizens upon birth, you'd be hard-pressed to send people overseas. Likewise, the State Department would be SCREAMING for people to work for them. Hence horribly inconvenient things - for you - like laws that state, as much as you fight the reality of them, that birth to two U.S. citizens, regardless of where it happens, means that the child is born a U.S. citizen.
You are just going to have to find other means to get people to back your Populist, non-conservative Hero.
Res tantum valet quantum vendi potest.
Breaking it down for Unsane (again)
May 11, 2008 - 13:17 ET by BritcomThe reason your sister is (apparently) not a German Citizen has to do with German law; which I have no knowlege of.
Apparently, (I say apparently, because I am relying on the information you have supplied for this example) the reason she is (now) a US Citizen, is because after she was born outside the US borders, she then qualified to obtain US citizenship via a statute that allows foreign born children to be naturalized immediately when they qualify for said statute's requirements.
Since she (and every other foreign born child of US Citizens) were naturalized shortly after birth and not natural born within the US, she (and the others) are ineligible for the Presidency, but she has virtually all of the other rights a natural born citizen would have.
In other words there are TWO kinds of US Citizens (1)Natural, and (2)Naturalized, just like the 14 Amendment says. Therefore both your sister and John McCain as Naturalized US Citizens, are of the second kind.
The reason expectant mothers of foreign serving government employees are not flown home to give birth is because it is too expensive to bother since less then one in a million of those children would ever seek the US Presidency, and Naturalized US Citizenship is good enough for the vast majority of them. (If you don't agree, then you should work for an amendment to change it.)
Following the American Revolution, one of the first legislative acts undertaken by each of the newly independent States was to adopt "reception statutes" that gave legal effect to the existing body of English Common Law. Some States enacted legislative reception statutes, while other States received the English common law through provisions of the State's constitution.
For example, the New York Constitution of 1777 provides that:
Other States that entered the union also adopted the English Common Law system (except for Louisiana)
Federal Law is also based on the English Common Law as stated in the Seventh Amendment:
At the time there was no other kind of common law but English Common Law so the reference is obviously to the English system.
You state:
Again, you fail mention which kind of US Citizen results from such laws as you refer to; Naturalized US Citizen, or Natural Born US Citizen.
The laws enacted by Congress result in Naturalized US Citizenship.
The Constitution prohibits such Naturalized US Citizens from qualifying for the Presidency by virtue of the Constitution's supremacy over Congresses' statutes and the Common Law concept of "natural born Citizen" it enlists to disable Naturalized US Citizens from obtaining that office.
You do your readers a disservice by obscuring my argument from that of "Natural Born US Citizen" to that of the more general but misleading "US Citizen".
Unlike you, I am always careful to specify the difference. Your failure to specify a difference misleads people into thinking that I maintain that those children of US Citizens born on foreign soil are not entitled to any kind of US Citizenship, I have always said they are Naturalized US Citizens with all the rights of Natural Born US Citizens, SAVE ONE, the right to hold the office of President, who's disability is enshrined in the US Constitution.
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Communist vs. Statist '08
Q. Is Panamanian born John McCain a "Natural Born Citizen"
Now we know why McCain
May 11, 2008 - 13:22 ET by Clear thinkerNow we know why McCain loves illegals.
I wonder if McCain was snuck across our southern border as a child?
"Abstain from McCain"
Ct, I would say like Moses was snuck into Egypt....
May 12, 2008 - 23:57 ET by R D Helm...but Moses was on a mission from God.
I am not at all confident that McCain is on a mission from same.
What the American people are looking for is somebody who can solve their problems. - Barack Obama, April 27, 2008
RD, as a neutral third
May 7, 2008 - 11:35 ET by mandrakeRD, as a neutral third party who loves politics, I ask what would conservatives do if they abandon the GOP. I see a couple of options...
1) After the election purge the GOP of 'rinos' as you call them and prepare for 2010.
2) Form a third party. I like independent parties. They've made Canadian politics fun for decades. Why must it always be GOP vs. Dems?
Just my two cents worth.
And exactly how do you
May 7, 2008 - 11:56 ET by motherbeltAnd exactly how do you "purge" the GOP of RINO's???
Well, in the old USSR, they
May 7, 2008 - 12:08 ET by Chris NormanWell, in the old USSR, they caught "colds"... :)
In the old USA
May 7, 2008 - 12:18 ET by BritcomHere they suddenly develop a sexual deviancy and then they vanish.
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Communist vs. Statist '08
Q. Is Panamanian born John McCain a "Natural Born Citizen"
Unfortunately, those that do
May 7, 2008 - 12:30 ET by Chris NormanUnfortunately, those that do are are usually conservative -while the RINOS keep chugging on into dotage.
mandrake,
May 8, 2008 - 22:47 ET by R D HelmThe best immediate option in the Libertarian Party, as it has a pretty good existing infrastructure when compared to the Constitution Party, or any of the others.
I, too, believe the two party system has become an anachronism, due mainly to the diverse intrests that did not exist fifty years ago. Secondarily, it is because the differences between the two current parties have become few and far between.
Both parties are spending the US into financial oblivion.
What the American people are looking for is somebody who can solve their problems. - Barack Obama, April 27, 2008
What the blogs are saying...
May 7, 2008 - 11:22 ET by BritcomAn interesting commentary by blogger BigChief:
Source: Politico
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Communist vs. Statist '08
Q. Is Panamanian born John McCain a "Natural Born Citizen"
McCain Not a GOP Uniter
May 7, 2008 - 11:34 ET by BritcomSource: Huckabee campaign press release
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Communist vs. Statist '08
Q. Is Panamanian born John McCain a "Natural Born Citizen"
Republicans are just making
May 7, 2008 - 11:40 ET by Roger the ShrubberRepublicans are just making a statement, telling the RNC powers-that-be (and McCain) that they are not happy with this nomination.
Those Huckabee voters will vote for McCain come November, when their vote will actually mean something. Who knows what the mental giant Ronulans will do. Wow.
I wouldn't count those Huckabee voters just yet.
May 7, 2008 - 12:03 ET by BritcomThe only scenario that I can see a Huckabee voter pulling the lever for McCain, is if it is McCain/Huckabee.
Otherwise the Constitution Party is going to have a banner year. They just nominated a conservative radio talk show host and Christian mega-church pastor from Florida as their candidate for President.
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Communist vs. Statist '08
Q. Is Panamanian born John McCain a "Natural Born Citizen"
And dumped Keyes
May 7, 2008 - 12:46 ET by sarcasmoBut someone right here on NB (no, not you) has yet to notice! I'm tempted by Baldwin, so the Libertarian Party needs to make their choice particularly attractive this time. Fortunately for the LP, I'm an admirer of Mary Ruwart, and she has a good shot at their nomination.
JMR
PS It's now official: The Whiner spends more time reading the Daily Paul than I do -- until today I hadn't checked there in over a week.
The tax & spend drug war looks racist in the real world.
Here's the link...
May 7, 2008 - 12:51 ET by BritcomConstitution Party Candidate >>
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Communist vs. Statist '08
Q. Is Panamanian born John McCain a "Natural Born Citizen"
At least we all know why
May 7, 2008 - 12:59 ET by Roger the ShrubberAt least we all know why your posts aren't as stupid as they normally are. You are drifting away from the hive. An obvious sign of you maturing, Sparky. Good for you!
Do try hard to not ruin this decent, adult thread with your douchebaggery, ok?
Situation: Normal
May 7, 2008 - 13:05 ET by sarcasmoThe Whiner calls a thread "adult" while Koss-ifying it at the same time.
JMR
The tax & spend drug war looks racist in the real world.
What exactly does
May 7, 2008 - 18:49 ET by Roger the ShrubberWhat exactly does "Kossifying" (without the lame hyphen) mean?
On second thought, I don't care. Here's your binky.
I feel confident that, in a
May 7, 2008 - 12:52 ET by Roger the ShrubberI feel confident that, in a state where 60% of the vote went Republican (Bush won by a half a million votes) in 2004, those 40,000 lost votes could be absorbed, I think.
But, that's what makes America great, right? You have the choice of voting for whoever you want...
So?
May 8, 2008 - 03:44 ET by UnsaneThey just nominated a conservative radio talk show host and Christian mega-church pastor from Florida as their candidate for President. Great! IF, that is, the only thing the President had to worry about was delivering sermons on Sunday and the weekly radio address. As the Presidency involves a TEENSY bit more than that...color me unimpressed. (But then, Britcom: live by identity politics, die by identity politics.)
Res tantum valet quantum vendi potest.
Can someone check and see if
May 7, 2008 - 11:40 ET by Chris NormanCan someone check and see if Obama is still delivering his victory speech?
Chris.... ROFLMAO! Isn't
May 7, 2008 - 13:08 ET by bigtimerChris....
ROFLMAO!
Isn't that the truth...but he made sure to say how much he loves AMERICA now! He loves this country and Michelle does too!
Who knew....
On and on he went with his sweet nothing empty promises.
"Never murder your opponent when he is committing suicide." ~ W. Churchill
bt, Thanks! I knew I could
May 7, 2008 - 14:57 ET by Chris Normanbt,
Thanks! I knew I could count on you to reply! Now that I've got you - you monitor the cable networks - tell me, for heaven's sake, has he stopped yet?
Chris
May 7, 2008 - 19:56 ET by Noel SheppardChris,
Sorry to come to this party late, but I've been REAL busy for what should be OBVIOUS reasons.
That said, ROTFFLMFAO!!!
Absolutely delicious. :-) ns
I live in durham. I voted
May 7, 2008 - 12:06 ET by spikefader