For general discussion and debate. Possible talking point: equating Rev. Hagee with Rev. Wright:
BORED by those endless replays of the Rev. Jeremiah Wright? If so, go directly to YouTube, search for "John Hagee Roman Church Hitler," and be recharged by a fresh jolt of clerical jive...Mr. Hagee is not a fringe kook but the pastor of a Texas megachurch. On Feb. 27, he stood with John McCain and endorsed him over the religious conservatives' favorite, Mike Huckabee, who was then still in the race...Mr. Hagee, it's true, did not blame the American government for concocting AIDS. But he did say that God created Hurricane Katrina to punish New Orleans for its sins, particularly a scheduled "homosexual parade there on the Monday that Katrina came."
Is there any similarity between the Hagee issue and Wright? Is the left grasping at straws to deflect criticism from Obama? Isn't there a huge difference between attending a church for 20 years and accepting an endorsement? Or are Rich and others making this comparision correct, and this is going to be a problem for McCain?
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Perfect timing. I was just
May 4, 2008 - 09:43 ET by ThisnThatPerfect timing. I was just reading Fox News, with a headline: "Dems turn focus to McCain's pastors" and thought -- what a stretch. But they are indeed going to go all out on this. It's going to turn into another empty shell, though. The Dims are really grasping at straws. They know that Obama is damaged goods, and the [falsely] believe tainting someone with the same brush is going to even the field. Not so -- McCain is a known entity; Obama is being defined by Wright.
Also, notice that it's the lib MSM that's trying to gin up pastor trouble for McCain; whereas the Wright situation simply poped up through alternate sources. Doesn't this tell us something about the MSM, and how they are going to be foot-soldiers in the attempted smear of McCain? In the Wright situation, the MSM were forced to deal with it -- not so with McCain.
Finally, the responses from McCain are going to be very different than from Obama. And the believability factor is going to be very different too.
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If you can read this, thank a teacher. If it is in English, thank a Soldier. - My barber
I'm touched that
May 4, 2008 - 09:41 ET by TEI'm touched that Catholic-hating leftists like Frank Rich and others from the pagan left, are now alleging concern about "Catholic bashing". What's next? Will Frank Rich and the rest of the atheist left allege fidelity with Southern Baptists?
This is the MSM's tactic
May 4, 2008 - 09:43 ET by motherbeltThis is the MSM's tactic any time a Democrat is in the soup. Find a Republican with something that can be construed as "similar" so it looks like an equal problem.
The problem, though, is that Hagee was not McCain's pastor and mentor for 20 years; he simply endorsed him. McCain had no control over that. And McCain didn't prepare and deliver a big speech defending either Hagee or his views.
MB, the tone of today's
May 4, 2008 - 10:03 ET by ThisnThatMB, the tone of today's editorials is very different than those associated with Wright. Today's editorial is an attack and an accusation. The Wright editorials were used as an explanation, first, then as a way to make us all understand, and finally as a "we're worried, but hope that Obama finds a way thru this -- maybe if we all just shut up it will go away".
Two different styles of MSM "Hope". They hope McCain's problems explode into a full-blown scandal just before November; the hope Obama's full-blown scandal quiets down in time for the general election. And they're very open about this.
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If you can read this, thank a teacher. If it is in English, thank a Soldier. - My barber
TnT...I read the Rich
May 4, 2008 - 10:36 ET by motherbeltTnT...I read the Rich piece, but haven't seen any others. Rich says the whole thing comes down to Obama belonging to Wright's church for 20 years.
Well DUH!
Are we supposed to equate the fact that McCain could've found out Hagee's views, with the fact the Obama did know Wright's...for 20 years? Apparently so.
But Rich is on the attack,
May 4, 2008 - 10:48 ET by ThisnThatBut Rich is on the attack, and is already drawing the lines for his readers. Two comments explain his approach:
(1) That defense [that Hagee wasn't McCain's pastor for 20 years] implies, incorrectly, that Mr. McCain was a passive recipient of this bigot’s endorsement, and
(2) This preacher’s rantings may tell us more about Mr. McCain’s policy views than Mr. Wright’s tell us about Mr. Obama’s.
Rich is trying to convince us that McCain has used Hagee [who is clearly demented, as in "rantings", and a racist, as in "bigot"] as a policy adivsor; whereas Obama's pastor was merely a sometimes-and-distant spiritual advisor. This isn't going to work -- but the MSM is going to try.
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If you can read this, thank a teacher. If it is in English, thank a Soldier. - My barber
Left Grasping at Straws
May 4, 2008 - 09:47 ET by Mr. TerryI don't think this will hurt McCain. It is a an attempt by the lefties to salvage what's left of their man's reputation. Obama called Wright his mentor didn't he? He had a long-term relationship with this man and no matter what Obama says, he knew full well what his pastor was saying from the pulpit. Those clips seen lately were only what has been discovered. If a pastor believes something as strongly as Wright believes his hairbrained theories then it will be in his theology, especially over a period of 20 years.
On the other hand, McCain had no such relationship with Hagee. Pastor Hagee answers for himself and I'm sure will make no apologies for his statements. He's not the type.
This whole thing is a sick attempt by the libs to whitewash the situation and cover the core beliefs of their candidate. The more the American people see the better. We already know John McCain, now we need to see Barack Obama and make an intelligent decision. Let's just hope the mass hysteria of Obamamania will subside a little and the young people of the United States see past the media disinformation campaign.
“Dependence begets subservience and venality, suffocates the germ of virtue, and prepares fit tools for the designs of ambition.” Thomas Jefferson
If McCain's pastor said the
May 4, 2008 - 09:51 ET by forestIf McCain's pastor said the US created AIDS to wipe people out, then the comparison would be valid. As is, it's not even a close call.
On another subject, a Ministry of Truth reporter set up a meeting with a suicide bomber, and was shocked to encounter another fully rigged suicide bomber who intended to blow them up.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/from_our_own_correspondent/7379988.stm
"When we arranged to meet a suicide bomber, we did not expect one wearing his bomb vest, all set to blow himself up outside the building in Kabul where we were filming.
But that is what happened. He was not the one we had arranged to meet."
Here's the difference Rich.
May 4, 2008 - 10:03 ET by Jack BauerHere's the difference Rich. Hagee is claiming God did something. That's a theological issue based on whether you believe God intervenes that directly in human affairs.
Wright is claiming White Americans as represented by the KKK of America invented AIDs to kill blacks. That's a conspiro-nutjob argument based on a warped leftist view of society
Unfortunately for YOUR candidate Rich, Obama needs the votes of millions of whites.
McCain isn't after God's vote, and besides he ain't voting anyway. And if he did, it would only be one anyway.
Great point, Jack. I was
May 4, 2008 - 10:34 ET by motherbeltGreat point, Jack. I was just about to post something similar when I read your comment. To the liberals MSM, out to redeem Obama, it doesn't matter; if there isn't any equivalent, they will create one.
There's another difference
May 5, 2008 - 02:05 ET by sarcasmoHagee may have initially claimed that God sent Katrina to punish those eeeeevil New Orleans* homos, but Hagee obviously knows how to backtrack on theological issues when it's good for politics. Wright, for better or worse, is clearly not the same kind of preacher...
JMR
* Considering "Fantasy Fest," it's a wonder an easy hurricane-target like Key West still exists! :)
The tax & spend drug war looks racist in the real world.
Another NY Times Hit Piece?
May 4, 2008 - 10:28 ET by pbthinkerThe difference between this hit piece and ones from the past is this one has the face of Frank Rich attached to it, who everyone knows is a partisan hack.
The joke, however, is on Frank Rich because he complains that it should have been easy to vet Hagee since he's on television and seen by 25 million viewers. Shouldn't it have been easy for Obama to vet his pastor for 20 years? Shouldn't the Senator, at some time during those 20 years, realized this might not be the guy to educate his children on Sundays? Shouldn't the Senator have realized, sometime in the 20 years he attend this church, that the pastors crazy rhetoric was doing nothing to advance his congregation and black people in general?
My guess is that Senator McCain hasn't listened to 20 minutes of Rev. Hagee and, if memory serves me correctly, when the Reverend was first brought up he disavowed all the crazy statements he's said, a far cry from how Senator Obama handled his pastor.
However, this is the NY Times so they'll just lose a few more readers and fire up the Democrats into believing this garbage. They are so morally bankrupt it's pathetic.
Democrats: Stuck on Stupid since 2000.
McCain wanted what he thought
May 4, 2008 - 10:59 ET by Delsawould bring him "Christian" street cred! Hagee is NOT someone McCain has been sitting infront of on Sundays for 20 years.
Maybe McCain and Obama went to these men for the same reasons? By that I mean political reasons.
Hagee is attempting to base his outragous statements on the Bible and so is Wright, only he includes the bad white man.
Similar men, just different colors.
Another Thought
May 4, 2008 - 10:39 ET by pbthinkerDoes the liberal media get together to figure out what to print in their Sunday Editions? The illustrious Palm Beach Post, today, had an article, written by a staff writer, with the headline " To blacks, Wright's view incendiary, yet familiar." which sort of said, you white folks just don't understand. I would be really suspicious if the Washington Post has some feel good things about the reverend also.
Here;s the link to the Post article:
http://www.palmbeachpost.com/localnews/content/nation/epaper/2008/05/03/m1a_religion_0504.html
Democrats: Stuck on Stupid since 2000.
Yes, there's definitely
May 4, 2008 - 10:42 ET by Roger the ShrubberYes, there's definitely some Manute Bol-like reaching going on here...
Speaking of reaching, the always-unbiased SF Gate gives their view on why dumb whitey likes McCain.
And here's two great pieces from Gateway Pundit:
Hillary messes up. Again.
Queen Latifah wannabe Monica Conyers must make her husband proud. Cynthia McKinney, take notes!
It was 38 years ago today that Kent State erupted in gunfire. Hug a hippy today.
144 years ago today, after 20,000 casualties, Robert E Lee won the Battle of Chancellorsville. Unfortunately, one of the greatest generals the US had ever known (and pride of West Virginia), Stonewall Jackson, died during this battle. Watch "Gods and Generals" if your interest is piqued.
Shrubber
May 4, 2008 - 11:14 ET by DelsaI have to read your links in a minute but I wanted to add this:
Evedently, the same "dumb whitey" is attracted to Hillary as well.
Blacks and smart people for Obama.
White and dumb people for Hillary and McCain.
Vay re Interesting?
Re the " dumb whitey"
May 4, 2008 - 16:34 ET by motherbeltRe the " dumb whitey" article:
I said this the other day. In an effort to "prove" that Obama wasn't elitist (corrected), the campaign said that those people who got upset about his guns and religion remarks didn't "understand" what he meant. If they knew what he really meant, they would not have felt insulted.
How's that for adding insult to injury?
Correction: It was not the Obama campaign that implied that some people were too dumb to understand or relate to Obama; it was Newsweek Magazine and Tim Graham discussed it here. Took a while; I just found it. Worth re-reading in light of this new article.
Frank Rich is a disgrace.
May 4, 2008 - 11:01 ET by Missouri ConservativeHe is a big fan of multicultural leftism. He hates "Bubba", i e rural white voters. He constantly refers to the GOP as "nearly all white", and "out of touch with a changing country". He lampooned McCain as being "just another old white guy" in a column a few weeks ago.
In this particular column, Rich revels in what he thinks will spell doom for the GOP - the time when "whites are in the minority". He seems to think the GOP cannot survive for much longer.
"women and minorities hardest hit"
Katrina was Devine Retribution?
May 4, 2008 - 11:01 ET by MearlineThat's Mr. Hagee's opinion and who knows maybe there IS some truth in that. I've watched some Dish Station title it's program about Storms as The Wrath of God. Then the interview of the alleged expert on the blood line of Christ after his death? I'm sensing a little hypocrisy here.
The McCain/Hagee lack of connection is of course going to be on par with the Obama/Wright Definite connection if the media has anything to do with it...and they will.
Good.
May 4, 2008 - 11:12 ET by iveseenitallI think most Americans will see throught this one. And it keeps the Rev.Wrong-Barry connection in the news. So--- good.
NEVER,NEVER trust a "liberal"
McCain-Hagee
May 4, 2008 - 11:29 ET by candanceWe all know how McCain truly feels about ministers from his famous "agents of intolerance" speech. I know he has since softened his tone, but I still believe that's the true content of his heart. He got an endorsement from Hagee because he needed some support from the hard right.
When McCain says "I can no more disown him than my own Catholic grandmother" the media has a comparison. Until then, it's apples and oranges.
20 Years
May 4, 2008 - 11:52 ET by Airforce_5_OThe Dems are out of their minds that their Savior has been tarnished and shown to be Human after all. As their “God” is knocked off his pedestal the liberal are snipping at any target which jumps in front of them.
We all know there are extremes on both ends of the left and right. The difference; John McCain didn’t stay in a pew for twenty years.
Democrats take yet another house seat!
May 4, 2008 - 12:42 ET by shawn228Democrat Don Cazayoux won a special congressional election Saturday,
bolstering his party's majority status on Capitol Hill and taking a
seat held by Republicans since 1974.
It will truly take a miracle for the GOP to take back congress in 08
Shawn, it's pretty
May 4, 2008 - 12:47 ET by Free StinkerShawn,
it's pretty obvious that the GOP won't control either house of congress until 2010 at the earliest. And 2010 is a pretty optimistic estimate.
Pledge to not support RINOs ever again!
I agree freestinker
May 4, 2008 - 17:46 ET by shawn228For the record, I feel the Democrats have done a horrible job. They are more interested in investigations than serious issues.
I might be more liberal than conservative, but even I am afraid of the worse case scenario for conservatives. The Presidency, The house and 60 seats in the senate. They can pretty much do whatever they want if that comes to fruition.
Shawn
May 4, 2008 - 12:52 ET by BlondeDoes your continual posting of items like this give you some sort of thrill?
After all, you post here day after day, and profess that we are your friends...yet you delight in posting items like this with a big fat exclamation point.
I don't get it Shawn. Care to enlighten me?
David Gregory, do you know which damn network you lie for? ~ Uncle Jimbo, @Blackfive
blonde
May 4, 2008 - 16:28 ET by shawn228I like to think of you as my friend, as I do with many others on this site. A Democrat has taken away a seat that that has been held by a Republican for over 20 yrs. To me that is news
Just like the other day. You said I was stupid and to stop my Dem Cheerleading. I was not Dem cheerleading, I was pointing out the fact that Clinton beats McCain in a head to head by 9 points at the present moment. Just like I acknowledge how McCain was in the lead for a while as well.
As far as taking delight and giving me a thrill to posting items. I don't know if I use an exclamation point all the time, but I have to admit, I get a sick sense of pleasure when I am proven right. So many people kept telling me McCain would not get the nomination, and I said otherwise.
I also enjoy pointing out some of NB's bias's regarding gas prices. No one seems to want to admit, gas prices are the highest they have ever been and it is not just a exageration by the msm.
I simply try to point out the other side once in a while. Yes I am sarcastic sometimes, but you will never hear me flame a politician, a bill, or a party without backing it up with facts either. I hope I have answered your questions.
Are there many people out
May 4, 2008 - 14:17 ET by Roger the ShrubberAre there many people out there in NBland who honestly think the GOP has a chance to take back control of congress? Probably not.
I have stated before that I think the predicted bloodbath come November is going to be proven wrong, that not as many seats will be win by the Democrat(ic)s as the pundits say.
Ironically, the Louisiana Democrat(ic), Cazayoux, ran as a pro-gun, pro-life Dem, two issues that surely attracted semi-Republicans. That being said, this middle-of-the-road Democrat(ic) has already distanced himself from Pelosi, etc, so things might not be as bad as some think.
Rog... From your PC to
May 4, 2008 - 14:24 ET by Clear thinkerRog...
From your PC to Gods ear!
"Abstain from McCain"
CT and Rog... Amen to
May 4, 2008 - 18:07 ET by bigtimerCT and Rog...
Amen to that!
"Never murder your opponent when he is committing suicide." ~ W. Churchill
Approval Ratings
May 4, 2008 - 13:17 ET by jaywlOn CNN's Last Word on Sunday Talk Wolf Blitzer brought up Pres. Bush's low approval ratings (22%), along with the usual historical references such "Since Nixon...not even Jimmy Carter...since Louis XIV!" I kept waiting for the comparison to Congress. It never came. Blitzer is so in the tank that CNN loves the man. I understand his dilemma though. If Congress' 22 percent rating was mentioned, it would destroy Wolf's message that the evil Bush is blamed by the people for everything and that only the democrats are working to set things right. Trash.
The MSM has been hammering
May 4, 2008 - 13:25 ET by Free StinkerThe MSM has been hammering Bush for nearly his entire term.
Could you imagine how low congress' approval rating would be if they got the same treatment?
Pledge to not support RINOs ever again!
Free... They, meaning all
May 4, 2008 - 14:07 ET by Clear thinkerFree...
They, meaning all politicians that lose their souls once elected, deserve any and all the bad ratings we can heap on them.
The thing I hate is when it's driven by the media and not the people.
"Abstain from McCain"
There is a similarity, but
May 4, 2008 - 14:01 ET by balboaThere is a similarity, but it's slight. Wright has been an advisor to Obama. I don't think Hagee has had the same access to McCain.
But it is similar in that all candidates have people backing them that they would rather not have see the light of day.
Yes Well it's only a problem for Republicans
May 4, 2008 - 15:02 ET by Mearlineisn't it? I mean Obama can have William Ayers as a friend and supporter and the good wishes of hamas and that's no problem. Let Hagee endorse McCain RATHER than Huckabee and suddenly McCain has commutted to Hagee's church from Arizona for the past 20 years.
"Expelled" business: Just
May 4, 2008 - 14:33 ET by balboa"Expelled" business:
Just over 5 million. Just FYI.
shawn
May 4, 2008 - 14:47 ET by DelsaJust you wait.
After four years of the left running the country you'll owe us all diner!
BUT you'll be bankrupt and living on the street.
Delsa
May 4, 2008 - 16:32 ET by shawn228Just like I said to others on this site. I have not made up my mind on who I am voting for. When it comes to Democratic issues the only ones I agree with are Universal Health care, Euthanisia, and free speech. Yes I know what you are going to say. I agree they are not perfect about free speech either, but I like their version better than the GOP's
Other than that I agree with much of what the GOP is all about.
Did anybody watch the
May 4, 2008 - 19:07 ET by bigtimerDid anybody watch the Mclaughlin report today?
They had a video of Obama praising Wright and all his endeavors that was taped I think they said about 11 months ago...
I will be surprised if this doesn't show up...then again knowing the the majority of the msm are pulling for Obama, maybe not...it was rich as far as I am concerned.
I went to the site of McLaughlin, I can't find a link to the video they showed either.
"Never murder your opponent when he is committing suicide." ~ W. Churchill
Movie review: Iron Man is
May 4, 2008 - 19:31 ET by balboaMovie review: Iron Man is super-duper.
Go see it. Downey Jr. is great, the effects are seamless, funny great action.
Excellent.... Can't wait
May 4, 2008 - 19:42 ET by Roger the ShrubberExcellent....
Can't wait to see it!
You won't be disappointed.
May 4, 2008 - 19:46 ET by balboaYou won't be disappointed. BTW, wait until the very end of the credits!
An annoying trend in movies
May 5, 2008 - 10:34 ET by Roger the ShrubberAn annoying trend in movies these days, eh?
How disappointed was I when I left "Pirates of the Carribean 2" before the end of the credits, and had to wait until the dvd release to see it, haha.
Is Jeff Bridges the bad guy in this? And who is the love interest?
Here is somehing called
May 5, 2008 - 00:11 ET by bigtimerHere is somehing called Common Sense....a light-hearted, but serious view for the end of the day....does have music in back ground.
"Never murder your opponent when he is committing suicide." ~ W. Churchill
Wright/Hagee may be an overall miss, but...
May 5, 2008 - 08:08 ET by sarcasmoAyers/Liddy seems to me like a direct hit, whether or not only one guy noticed. It's also yet-another reason why a brokered convention -- or at least a longer selection process -- might have helped the Republican party.
JMR
The tax & spend drug war looks racist in the real world.
→ Dizzy Dean
May 5, 2008 - 08:17 ET by Cool ArrowMy favorite part of the interview was when Dean condemned ads containing Rev. Wright as "racebaiting"
He also disagreed with Bambi that the Wright situation was fair for discussion.
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