For general discussion and debate. Possible talking point: Florida considering Christian license plate (paragraph breaks eliminated):
The Florida Legislature is considering a specialty plate with a design that includes a Christian cross, a stained-glass window and the words "I Believe."...Rep. Edward Bullard, the plate's sponsor, said people who "believe in their college or university" or "believe in their football team" already have license plates they can buy. The new design is a chance for others to put a tag on their cars with "something they believe in," he said...Approval would almost certainly face a court challenge. The problem with the state manufacturing the plate is that it "sends a message that Florida is essentially a Christian state" and, second, gives the "appearance that the state is endorsing a particular religious preference," said Howard Simon, executive director of the American Civil Liberties Union of Florida.
What a shock: the ACLU objects. Regardless, any thoughts on this?
Comments Policy
And now, today's Shrub
April 24, 2008 - 10:16 ET by Roger the ShrubberAnd now, today's Shrub Report®:
This Shrubber is still waiting patiently for the Democrat(ic)-controlled congress to act in their usual quick-and-effective fashion on this crisis.
Uh, oh, the message is getting debunked, so it's time to ratchet up the propaganda! Apparently these folks didn't get the memo.
Mark this news in the "big friggin' deal" column.
Today's Global Warming Update.
Today's Student of the Year candidate.
Today's UN Update.
Today's Religion of Peace Update. Hurry, Douchemonger, get those apologist remarks ready! Hurry, because here's another daily example of the tolerance of Islam!
The Headline of the Day.
And finally, the top 300 movies you must see before dying. Check out the first movie on the list! Woohoo!
Shrub, tip for tomorrow
April 24, 2008 - 10:27 ET by PawpawNApril 25, 1983, Manchester, Maine, schoolgirl Samatha Smith was invited to visit the Soviet Union by its then leader Yuri Andropov when he read a letter she wrote in which she expressed fears about nuclear war. Maybe we need someone to write the Iranian leader now! Also 1983, all year, was declared "THE YEAR OF THE BIBLE" by Pres Reagan. Can you see that happening now!
DUCT TAPE ALERT!!!!
April 24, 2008 - 10:34 ET by motherbeltRe the Student of the Year..... this is the line that had me going for the duct tape:
Jimmie Bainbridge, 17, and his parents told KDKA that they wanted to tell their side of the story. [There's another side to this that deserves consideration: was having a bad day....??????]
You forgot to nominate his parents for Idido Parents of the Year!
Yeah, that "I was having a
April 24, 2008 - 10:54 ET by Roger the ShrubberYeah, that "I was having a bad day" line got me, too. If only we gave the jerk more hugs....
Give props to the second
April 24, 2008 - 10:36 ET by taterGive props to the second movie on the list. A tater favorite...and the dude abides. Also I can't believe for train wrecks they didn't include the infamous Tom Green film "Freddie got Fingered". I watched that movie and it was so hilariously bad I found it really funny.
By justice a king gives stability to a land; but he who imposes heavy taxes ruins it. -Proverbs 29:4
See the sequel to one being in Congress now!
April 24, 2008 - 10:41 ET by PawpawNSeems the sequel to DUMB & DUMBER is being done as a documentary in Congress now-starring NANCY PELOSI & HARRY REID!
And I forgot
April 24, 2008 - 10:43 ET by PawpawNAnother sequel starring BARACK HUSSIEN OBAMA, DAZED & CONFUSED when he is actually asked a question on the campaign trail!
Read this story, along the
April 24, 2008 - 12:03 ET by Roger the ShrubberRead this story, along the lines of the "Student of the Year" posting above.
hey bigot boy:)!another
April 24, 2008 - 12:24 ET by TruthMongerhey bigot boy:)!
another fine hack job as always
sorry but those so-called "Muslims" in your links only account for maybe 1% of Islam at best, so no apology necessary...
It is our misfortune that we all cannot live together especially as Christianity was built upon Judaism and Islam on both. We all share a common denominator but it is this that divides us all. Frankly, I'm happy to be a minority if that means I accept who you are and what you are without judging.
Rubina, London, United Kingdom
http://www.muslimnews.co.uk/yoursay/index.php?ysc_id=4
Hi little girl!
April 24, 2008 - 13:15 ET by Roger the ShrubberDo you simply cut-and-paste your daily excusings of the murder of innocents, or do you re-type them everyday? Must be a heavy load, having to make up excuses for a religion that butchers thousands. I guess it takes a "bigot" like me to expose what an impotent, flaccid little justifier of death you are, douchemonger.
Oh, here's some guidelines for you to follow, for the next time you visit your gynecologist in Belgium. You should get checked out, you know.
While you stew over whatever lame, ineffectual comeback you are contemplating, chew on these two stories about tolerance and moderation.
Hello, TM, you seem to have
April 24, 2008 - 14:47 ET by CortillaenHello, TM, you seem to have forgotten about our little game. The score was 5-0 in my favor, as I recall, right after I finished dismantling your four examples of "peaceful" Muslims. To recap, one was a liar catering to both sides, though his blog seems rather one-sided in favor of extremism, and the other three were all active advocates of extremism, including the highest authority in the Sunni sect. I was eagerly awaiting your next try, too. Also, I think it is rather telling that, in addition to the numerous examples of murderous, extremist Muslims, none your supposedly-contradictory examples truly do so, and 75% of them actually endorse extremism. Fun, huh? Oh, and don't forget this poll, the one which still says over half of Muslims think mocking their prophet is justification for death. So much for your unfounded "those so-called 'Muslims' in your links only account for maybe 1% of Islam at best". I don't need to call you names. Taking your arguments apart with the truth is much more satisfying.
www.rhjunior.com Great comics with a hefty dose of Christian and anti-nutjob goodness.
"With your mind as high as Mt. Fuji you can see all things clearly. And you can see all the forces that shape events; not just the things near to you." -Miyamoto Musashi
TM, Your problem isn't that
April 24, 2008 - 16:55 ET by Hunter12TM, Your problem isn't that the "so-called "Muslims" in your links only account for maybe 1% of Islam" are terrorists, it's that 99% of terrorists are Muslims. Until the 99% that are pacifists in your view put a stop to that 1%, they will have to share in the bad name. I do question how a practicing Muslim can ignore those parts of the Koran that tell them to spread the word by sword if necessary.
On something that is unreleated: a matryed man gets 72 virgins in paradise. What does a female matyr receive? I am being sincere in asking this question and am not mocking the Islamic faith.
"An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last." - Sir Winston Churchill
Regarding the 72 virgins
April 24, 2008 - 18:31 ET by CortillaenRegarding the 72 virgins thing, I proposed what seems to be the most reasonable explanation here. Like you, I don't mean to mock Islam, but when my reasoning suggests bribery via promised sex, I'm not entirely sure how to avoid it. Well, wouldn't be the first time I've "blasphemed" and surely won't be the last (note that I distinguish between blasphemy, the arrogant, ignorant mockery of a religion's deity/prophets/tenets and "blasphemy", discussing aspects of a religion its defenders don't want discussed). Given the manner in which the religion was created and the primary targets at such time, I think my proposal is quite reasonable. Never mind the accounts of Muhammad declaring women to be mentally deficient because their testimony is half as accurate as that of a man because they are mentally deficient. No, I'm not kidding. Oh, and he said the majority of those in hell were women. For some reason, it sounds like Muhammad didn't care overmuch for women, huh?
www.rhjunior.com Great comics with a hefty dose of Christian and anti-nutjob goodness.
"With your mind as high as Mt. Fuji you can see all things clearly. And you can see all the forces that shape events; not just the things near to you." -Miyamoto Musashi
Did you know trhat these
April 24, 2008 - 18:40 ET by NL207Did you know trhat these virgins are all clones of Rosie O'Donnell?
That's just wrong, NL!
April 24, 2008 - 18:44 ET by BlondeHillarious, but wrong. (My friend from Texas always says that....."That's just Wrong"....so imagine it with the twang! :).
David Gregory, do you know which damn network you lie for? ~ Uncle Jimbo, @Blackfive
In other, somewhat related, news...
April 24, 2008 - 20:12 ET by CortillaenDoes anyone know who this guy is? This segment is simply all kinds of awesome, and I'd love to check out some more of his material.
www.rhjunior.com Great comics with a hefty dose of Christian and anti-nutjob goodness.
"With your mind as high as Mt. Fuji you can see all things clearly. And you can see all the forces that shape events; not just the things near to you." -Miyamoto Musashi
72 virgins??
April 24, 2008 - 18:46 ET by Mica the MagnificentWhy do we assume the 72 virgins are 'women?'
A horse is a horse, of course, of course,
and this one has never been plowed, of course
so yes, of course, you'll pick this horse
as a virgin for Mr. Ahmed.
Dang, so that's why
April 24, 2008 - 20:08 ET by CortillaenDang, so that's why Muhammad said women were mentally deficient... Probably explains why he hated them, too.
www.rhjunior.com Great comics with a hefty dose of Christian and anti-nutjob goodness.
"With your mind as high as Mt. Fuji you can see all things clearly. And you can see all the forces that shape events; not just the things near to you." -Miyamoto Musashi
Hey Roger. Re: the photo in
April 24, 2008 - 19:22 ET by QueenMumHey Roger. Re: the photo in the climate change article - Is that a dead fish or a dead owl? I need to know in order to determine if I'm prepared for the worst.
I am the exotic Queen Mum, and I approved this message.
It's a dead fish.
April 25, 2008 - 09:46 ET by Roger the ShrubberIt's a dead fish. Ironically, on the History Channel (formerly the Civil War and Hitler Channel) there was a "special" on Global Warming, made in 2007. this Al Gore full-body massage used that same photo, as well as stated that Global Warming is a fact and is going to kill us all.
So get your affairs in order.
Nice to see Bullit made the list.
April 24, 2008 - 22:24 ET by R D HelmGreatest car chase ever filmed, IMHO.
Too bad John Boorman's masterpiece Excalibur was left out.
Theme for Election '08: Who cares?
Thoughts on the license
April 24, 2008 - 10:47 ET by taterThoughts on the license plate...well if it resembles anything Christian it must be attacked. Maybe if they put a picture of mohammed on there then that would be okay.
...oh wait.
"They need to have a course in college called common sense and everyone should take it. Problem is there isn't too many people that could pass or teach it." -my grandfather
Dims -- WE NEED MORE OIL
April 24, 2008 - 11:14 ET by ThisnThatThe Dims are threatening the President (by cutting arms sales) unless he convinces "His" Saudi friends to PUMP MORE OIL. Socialist Bernie Sanders (Vt) was on Fox News at 11:00am this morning all in a lather about this.
Hey, Bernie -- HOW about we DRILL FOR MORE OIL OURSELVES??? Open up the Gulf. Open up Alaska.
Of course not! That would be too rational. Better to threaten everyone else just to show how powerful the Dims are. And Bernie, why do we need more oil if all you want to do is push alternative sources? Why don't you go talk to your fried Teddy Kennedy and get him to back off his objections to Windmills off the Cape? These Dims really take the cake, here.
___________________________________
If you can read this, thank a teacher. If it is in English, thank a Soldier. - My barber
Spot on , Thisnthat
April 24, 2008 - 11:21 ET by Mica the MagnificentI saw the same broadcast of Bernie the commie!
Why didn't the anchor ask him what we would ask him?
Why is Fox News getting soft????
The Top Three suppliers of
April 24, 2008 - 11:26 ET by Jack BauerThe Top Three suppliers of Crude Oil to the US
Saudi was seventh or eighth down the list, last time I checked.
Apart from the fact that OPEC decides on the supply of Oil amongst those in the cartel. And the market sets the price, based on the demand for the supply capped by OPEC.
Bernie Sanders is to economics what Katie Couric is to brain surgery...
I saw that too, and thought
April 24, 2008 - 11:58 ET by ckc1227I saw that too, and thought to myself who the hell are you to demand anyone increase their oil production when we refuse to increase our own oil production.
...sssssshhhh... We're
April 24, 2008 - 17:01 ET by Hunter12...sssssshhhh... We're using all theirs up first.
"An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last." - Sir Winston Churchill
ACLU Plate Design
April 24, 2008 - 11:42 ET by the_red_stateThere's nothing stopping them from getting their own plate...they could use the Communist hammer & sickle for their design instead of a cross.
How will people here feel
April 24, 2008 - 11:49 ET by sarcasmoAbout a "Wicca" plate? Because if you allow this, it's probably coming. (My position? The state should NOT lose any money on any of these stupid car ornament ideas!)
JMR
The tax & spend drug war looks racist in the real world.
...this Protestant Fundie
April 24, 2008 - 12:28 ET by TruthMonger...this Protestant Fundie is just fine with Wicca or anything else - they should just make the symbols adjustable - choose a Star of David if you like, or whatever...
only about 4,000 official religions on planet earth to cover:)!
http://www.theologicalstudies.org/classicalreligionlist.html
Hence my admonition/worry
April 24, 2008 - 13:29 ET by sarcasmoThat my idiotic state will find a way to lose money on this, somehow. Honor whatever invisible entity you want to honor on your plate, but let's at least expect it to break-even financially.
JMR -- some claim that I worship money, but it's not true. I just like the honest variety more than I like dishonestly issued paper.
The tax & spend drug war looks racist in the real world.
The ACLU is the group who
April 24, 2008 - 17:07 ET by Hunter12The ACLU is the group who thought NAMBLA had the right to practice their beliefs. Need I say more?
"An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last." - Sir Winston Churchill
Wonder what the ACLU
April 24, 2008 - 11:54 ET by ricklailWonder what the ACLU will say about this.
"A pharisee is hard on others and easy on himself, but a spiritual man is easy on others and hard on himself." A.W. Tozer (Pharisee=modern day liberal)
Drat. Outwitted by Chimpy
April 24, 2008 - 12:00 ET by Roger the ShrubberDrat. Outwitted by Chimpy McHitler again...
"Where's the evidence of abuse??"
April 24, 2008 - 12:36 ET by sarcasmoAn increasingly good question, like "how much is this Mental Waco precedent costing Texas taxpayers, judge?" Yes, your religion may be next...
JMR
The tax & spend drug war looks racist in the real world.
damn fine article
April 24, 2008 - 12:44 ET by TruthMongerdamn fine article sarc
FLDS is just all right with me - and the Bible...
and consequently a major target of the Dems running our PC mafia...
Nice job Cubbies, beating
April 24, 2008 - 12:46 ET by wiwfNice job Cubbies, beating the Rockies in 10 for win #10,000! I was at the game too, cheering them on :D
The Rocky Mountain Collegian: Illustrating Idiocy
Out of control government agency
April 24, 2008 - 12:59 ET by Ruths husband BenThere are a bunch of things about this that really torque me. For starters, you would have to be a violent felon for them to order that your DNA to be taken. Unless you are a child. Then you have no privacy rights (of course, they are doing it for the childs good. As Reagan said, the most terrifying words for an American are "We're from the government and we're here to help.").
The second thing that bothers me (and should bother every parent out there) is that these children were safe where they were. We now know that the allegations were false. But these 400 kids are wards of the state or sent to foster care. What's the chances that none of them will be molested? Most foster parents are good people, but most is not all.
Another thing that bothers me is that we know the allegations were false and yet the state, rather than trying to undo the harm as fast a possible are now fishing for a reason to justify what they did. This is a major debacle and a perfect example of why the state never has the citizens's best interest in heart.
“There’s nobody (white) on my staff who would still be working for me if they made a comment like that about anybody of any (other) ethnic group.” -Obama (talking about Imus)
(parentheticals added for clarity)
Ruths Hubby Ben... I for
April 24, 2008 - 13:11 ET by Clear thinkerRuths Hubby Ben...
I for one am glad this has happened. Not that the children are being mistreated, but the fact that the authorities were able to find a way to get into this compound. There have been adults that have come forward that once were part of this sect, and their stories of molestation tell me that the right thing has been done.
"Abstain from McCain"
So from now on, we can
April 24, 2008 - 13:19 ET by Ruths husband BenSo from now on, we can harrass people we don't like based on false allegations and it's okay? I may hire myself out to the state as a false stoolie (let me know who you want to go after, I'll supply the improbable cause). Seems like there may be a market there. The answer to the question "Does the end justify the means?" is "No."
If you picked 400 kids at random here
April 24, 2008 - 13:24 ET by sarcasmoI'd bet good money that a few were sexually abused. If you picked 400 in Florida state custody, I'd bet my left testicle some had been abused AFTER entering state custody. And I'm very fond of my testicles. Yes, they're going to find "abuse." At this point, a judge's pride in addition to the prosecutors' is on the line.
This Mental Waco has "Duke Lacrosse Prosecutorial Pride" written ALL OVER it, and believe me, I'm familiar with the stupidity and absent-consequences of prosecutorial pride being used against innocent citizens because Duke Lacrosse, like it or not, wasn't anything even resembling unique.
JMR
The tax & spend drug war looks racist in the real world.
Well Sarc, we are going to
April 24, 2008 - 13:33 ET by Ruths husband BenWell Sarc, we are going to have to agree to agree over this one. Or in other words, I am in violent agreement with you. They really stepped over the line here. This is where tyranny begins and it must have its ugly head stepped on and stepped on firmly.
If they can't find the girl
April 24, 2008 - 13:26 ET by Clear thinkerIf they can't find the girl that made the initial call amongst over 400 children, does this mean it didn't happen?
The men in this sect are allowed to fondle all body parts of young girls. Do you think this should be allowed?
"Abstain from McCain"
You're not following the
April 24, 2008 - 13:29 ET by Ruths husband BenYou're not following the story. The call was made by a woman who has a history of making false police reports. It was not made by any of the children in the compound.
You are not following my
April 24, 2008 - 13:40 ET by Clear thinkerYou are not following my point. Even if the phone call in question turns out to be BS, I'm still glad that the state found a reason to go in.
Adults have been coming forward explaining that the MEN are allowed to fondle all young girls. The same women that look so innocent on TV not only allow this to happen, but at one point in time it happened to them. They fall for the BS that Warren Jeffs has put in their heads about purity.
Would I temporarily step on some civil rights to save a child? Hell yes!
"Abstain from McCain"
We are at an impass. I
April 24, 2008 - 13:55 ET by Ruths husband BenWe are at an impasse. I disagree with you that the state ever has a right to violate citizen's rights. Ever. If they can't make their case based on sound legal principles, they can't make their case. It matters. It's called a Bill of Rights, not a Bill of Privileges.
Any citation on
April 24, 2008 - 13:31 ET by sarcasmoThat "fondle all body parts" allegation you just made?? Do the mothers who spoke on TV look like they're into that kind of thing? Not from here...
JMR
The tax & spend drug war looks racist in the real world.
"Do the mothers who spoke
April 24, 2008 - 20:20 ET by QueenMum"Do the mothers who spoke on TV look like they're into that kind of thing?"
sarcasmo: Is this your criteria for judging whether someone is telling the truth?
The women in this community are taught from childhood that they are to subject themselves to the will of the "prophet" or risk eternal damnation. Any and all physical contact approved by the "prophet" is deemed holy and pure. The mothers who spoke on TV look like they had carefully rehearsed their answers. It was obvious that they were prepared to answer certain questions. When the questions got pointed, they hesitated or got very quiet. Did you wonder why it was the women who were offered for interviews and not the men? Or why the women appeared in groups?
Anyone who has worked with abused women will tell you that they are likely to lie to cover-up the abuse out of fear of retribution. As long as these women are still living within their sect's community, they must consider the repercussions should they violate the instruction of the "prophet".
Added: Here is the Canadian connection. So now we also have the possibility of transporting minors out of Canada for the purpose of providing wives for the sect.
Despite the possibility that the call that precipitated the raid may have been a hoax, the authorities acted in good faith and the initial investigation provided evidence enough that children were being abused. Affidavit - Note Pg. 5
I am the exotic Queen Mum, and I approved this message.
No, that's why I was asking for the citation,
April 25, 2008 - 07:36 ET by sarcasmoLook, the facts may yet bear out this Mental Waco being inflicted on these kids, but I have seen the men talk too (Drudge last week). So far, for me, they just seem nutty and old fashioned to me. Marriage among teens was common not too long ago, and these people, as your link says, have learned to distrust outsiders.
They have good reasons besides their sect's own history. I worry that the state's "cure" may be worse than the sect's nuttiness "disease" in this case, even though aspects of it are obviously disturbing. I'm sure they'd find aspects of my life disturbing, too.
JMR
The tax & spend drug war looks racist in the real world.
Ct... Here is the
April 24, 2008 - 13:38 ET by bigtimerCt...
Here is the crazy gal who called in, it wasn't any 16 year old girl, yet Texas refuses to back down, still placing these kids in a strange environment, the msm refuses to back down to say they may have rushed to judgement like they always do...
I think the whole thing is absolutely outrageous...and unconstitutional.
"Never murder your opponent when he is committing suicide." ~ W. Churchill
bt... Two days ago my
April 24, 2008 - 13:50 ET by Clear thinkerbt...
Two days ago my wife called me into the family room where she was watching the Dr. Phil show. On Tuesday and Wednesday his show concerned this whole affair. The adults that have come forward that were once part of the sect have been telling a story of man to child perversion. One woman who is the neice of Warren Jeffs actually got back into the compound with cameras rolling. She found her sister in the compound and recognized a few of the other women. This woman told Dr. Phil how the men are allowed to go to a girls bedroom at any time and fondle and touch the girls in all their private areas. The men keep the women convinced that this is part of their purity to God, whatever that means.
Anyway, the stories being told make me sick, and as I posted above... If I have to temporaily step on some civil rights to save a child, I will.
"Abstain from McCain"
Clear - I'm with you
April 24, 2008 - 13:56 ET by Dee Bunkexcept for that I don't see any civil rights being trampled.
Dee... Others posting
April 24, 2008 - 14:01 ET by Clear thinkerDee...
Others posting here see it as a civil rights issue.
I will do whatever I can to save a child from harm, even if it means breaking the law!
"Abstain from McCain"
Children have civil rights
April 24, 2008 - 14:16 ET by Dee Bunkthat is the only civil rights issue. As I said, no one has a right to have a group home of kids without being subject to inspections.
No adults civil rights have been violated. Have any even been arrested?
Dr Phil????????
April 24, 2008 - 15:05 ET by voodoodaddyAre you Serious? Nothing that spews from this guys mouth or show has any truth to it. The guys an assclown inside and out. Why would anyone believe anything form this show. You may as well watch Jerry Springer...at least there is more action on Springers show.
I am not saying I do not belive anything happened at the compound but I sure as hell would not get my information from Dr. Phil.
Hi Sarc, BT and RHB I haven't followed the story closly either
April 24, 2008 - 13:55 ET by Dee Bunkbut polygamy is illegal, so it's not the same as just attacking the way someone raises their kids. If there isn't a law against putting children in a large group home without being subject to some minimum standards that would allow for inspections, then their should be.
People have the right to raise their children they way they see fit, absent sexual and physical abuse, but large group homes like this need to have oversight. Many of the people "raising" these children are not their parents and they need to have standards at least as strict as any daycare center. In most states after you care for a certain # (somewhere under 10) you need to be licensed and subject to inspection.
The kids were not removed
April 24, 2008 - 13:59 ET by Ruths husband BenThe kids were not removed because of charges of polygamy were they? I agree that polygamy is against the law of the land. That's what they should have went after them for, then.
The only reason it
April 24, 2008 - 14:04 ET by Clear thinkerThe only reason it snowballed is...
When the authorities were trying to ascertain who the childrens parents were there was mass confusion.
"Abstain from McCain"
I don't think so - I haven't followed closely
April 24, 2008 - 14:12 ET by Dee Bunkbut I believe they were removed because of abuse. My point is that these "families" don't or shouldn't have the same protections because they are not legal families. They are operating more like daycare centers. If someone charges abuse at a huge daycare center and the government finds out it's not licensed, then it needs to be shut down until they comply with the law and things are looked into.
The whole reason polygamy is illegal is probably because of how this type of brainwashing and forced submission of women and children are common in polygamist cults.
Dee: You are correct. The
April 24, 2008 - 21:12 ET by QueenMumDee: You are correct. The children were removed because there was evidence found in the process of the initial investigation that suggested that underage females were subject to sexual abuse by virtue of being forced to engage in sexual intercourse with adult men.
I am the exotic Queen Mum, and I approved this message.
bt: Please consider the
April 24, 2008 - 20:57 ET by QueenMumbt: Please consider the links I added to my comment above and let me know what you think. - Q.M.
I am the exotic Queen Mum, and I approved this message.
Sarc the religious nuts
April 24, 2008 - 13:05 ET by Dan The Man 2Sarc the religious nuts have a right to be nuts, but only until it conflicts with "public safety". The issue is when does the state step in to protect the citizenry, even from themselves. The law of the land is very specific on child sex and rape, even with consent. It does not matter if both consent becasue of the possiblity of coercetion and in this case a big possibility.
So the big question is where is the line between religion and the public welfare? I dont care if people practice poligamy, but the law only allows one spouse at a time and for good reason. And I ask you if you want to support a polygamists wives if he decides to get rid of one of them? Thewhole family structure is threatened by poligamy.
Now one of teh big problems with this sect is there dont seem to be any marriage records and some of theminors are pregnant. So it seems crimes have been committed.
Nuke em til they glow then shoot em in the dark.
If "it seems crimes have been committed"
April 24, 2008 - 13:20 ET by sarcasmoCan't the state do better than a series of lame phony phone calls from a repeat phony phone caller, especially considering the allegation that they had someone "inside" for 4 years?? Why uproot all these children and expose them to outside influences at immense taxpayer expense (which you never-mentioned)? IMO some of the reflexive defenses of state power regarding this Mental Waco, despite flimsy-ass evidence here, are...Revealing of an empty-headed "Nancy Grace" pro-prosecution bias in this case...
JMR
The tax & spend drug war looks racist in the real world.
I support the law because
April 24, 2008 - 14:37 ET by Dan The Man 2I support the law because when an officer is legally doing his duty and comes across a possible crime he is obligated to investigate. No matter if the caller was false or not there was a legitimate reason at teh time to investigatee the compound. And in the course of investigation found some other disturbing problem; this is like in the course of a routine traffic stop a policeman sees a gun in the front seat.. At that time the callers reports were treated as being valid and the styate took appropiate actions.
They needed to seperate the perps and the victims to get adequate and accurate information; just in the same way two beligerents are seperated to get to teh bottom of what happened without one influening the other unduly.
In closing it is a reasonable search and seizure and proper police work. All a part of teh investigation.
Nuke em til they glow then shoot em in the dark.
I "support the law" too
April 24, 2008 - 16:59 ET by sarcasmoThat's why I totally-disagree. What was "disturbing" about these people is that they choose to live differently than most folks. That's not a crime, either. Yet.
JMR
The tax & spend drug war looks racist in the real world.
sarc....Here is a site I
April 24, 2008 - 17:09 ET by bigtimersarc....
Here is a site I ran across, it has a lot of info. on this from just about day one.
We all see this through different eyes that's for sure.
...oops, sorry I forgot to put the link in earlier...lol.
"Never murder your opponent when he is committing suicide." ~ W. Churchill
Thanks, BT
April 24, 2008 - 17:24 ET by sarcasmoI find myself wondering how much loot "Cal Farley's Boy Ranch" is bringing in from this. I know, it's always money with me, but the writer is correct. Putting these kinds of kids with the kind of troubled street kids currently housed at places like "Cal Farley's Boy Ranch" (or really just about any Texas foster home, if my own Florida experience is any guide) is a sure recipe for a permanent disaster, no matter what the outcome of their ongoing abuse investigations.
JMR
The tax & spend drug war looks racist in the real world.
I agree sarc. Besides the
April 24, 2008 - 17:35 ET by bigtimerI agree sarc.
Besides the real gal calling, you've got Jessop gal selling her book and being all over television, I have felt she is very involved with the gal who did the calling, you've got the original warrant and complaint with Dale Barlow too, which turned out to be wrong, yet they kept going, you've got the gal Texas Ranger who is questionable in my way of thinking, there is too many things that do not add up here from the beginning...to me it is a heartbreaker, if those kids weren't abused before, their chances of being so now are great.
I sure am not going to go back and forth with friends here about this...time will tell in the end...sadly.
My heart goes to the kids.
"Never murder your opponent when he is committing suicide." ~ W. Churchill
sarc, That's not a crime, either. Yet.
April 24, 2008 - 17:37 ET by upcountrywaterYet!
We the people are dumber, bow to the law.
<gaia/love>SAVVVE The Whales N' Earth; conserve N' recycle !
IranianUranium<sleep>New/Infrastructure/repair?/ROFLMAO
Wow, abused kids are not even worth using Gov funds?
April 24, 2008 - 23:48 ET by general companyWhy uproot all these children and expose them to outside influences at immense taxpayer expense: Sarc
This is the most pitiful statement I have read since discovering this site. I guess the phrase "better safe then sorry" doesnt count for kids. If anyone suspected I was abusing my kids, wouldnt it be prudent for a Teacher, neighbor, friend, relative, paster or whom ever to notify the law? These kids don't have that luxury now do they? I guess it is different unless you live different?
Wow, abused kids are not even worth using Gov funds?
Living differently is one thing, using threats and abuse to do so, sick? Maybe abusing kids in the name of what ever should be ok, I mean as long as you aren't bothering anyone?
A few of these folks belong under the jail.
"Television is a freak show" Bernie Goldberg
If there were any proof of abuse
April 25, 2008 - 07:23 ET by sarcasmoI'd agree, but so far the proof department looks a bit sparse. Yeah, young girls in that group get pregnant, but guess what? Young girls in general get pregnant. How many pregnant 16 year old girls get taken away from their parents these days?
The person who "notified the law" (and authorities supposedly had a spy inside for 4 years, right? How come nobody's talking about that anymore in the news media??) wasn't a teacher. That person also wasn't a neighbor, or a friend, or a relative, or a pastor. IT WAS SOME NUTCASE FROM OUT OF STATE (911 traces calls, so the Texas authorities have instantly-known the calls were fakes, well before contemplating any raid, if they were even halfway-competent!) WHO WAS ALREADY IN TROUBLE FOR MAKING FAKE PHONE CALLS!!! And I'm with Bigtimer on the strong suspicion this Jessup woman is involved in this to sell lots of books, and perhaps influenced said nutcase.
JMR
The tax & spend drug war looks racist in the real world.
Rambles
April 25, 2008 - 08:29 ET by UnsaneActually, quite a few comments on this site are disturbing. The attitude among some here seems to be that either 1) societies should have those pesky things called standards of behavior (this is hardly the first society to frown upon polygamy) and/or 2) sexual abuse/50-something men impregnating 14-, 15-, 16- year old girls is PERFECTLY acceptable because they aren't hurting anybody.
I'm one of those weird people who accept society sets standards and often resorts to law to enforce those standards. The happenings outside San Angelo that were found to be going on in that compound repulse me.
I am also compelled to ask those who think that polygamy is OK (if I am reading some of these comments right) what they think of gay marriage. Here's betting that if THAT gets proposed, that those same posters will THROW AN ABSOLUTE FIT.
Res tantum valet quantum vendi potest.
Dan: In the case of this
April 24, 2008 - 20:46 ET by QueenMumDan: In the case of this sect, it's not just plain old polygamy. There's rarely a true marriage. Women are often passed from one man to another. This is part of the reason that there's so much confusion about who may be an individual child's parents. If a man is unable to father a child, another man can be assigned by the "prophet" to impregnate the woman. I'd be curious to know what happens to the women once they are beyond child-bearing age. I didn't notice many women in the media coverage who looked older than about 40.
I am the exotic Queen Mum, and I approved this message.
More Stupidity
April 24, 2008 - 13:04 ET by BlondeFrom the Florida legislature.
Sheesh, don't these people have anything important to do?
David Gregory, do you know which damn network you lie for? ~ Uncle Jimbo, @Blackfive
You're right Blonde
April 24, 2008 - 13:24 ET by ThisnThatThis is just nuts!
___________________________________
If you can read this, thank a teacher. If it is in English, thank a Soldier. - My barber
Maybe it should be
April 24, 2008 - 13:26 ET by sarcasmoA license plate theme? :)
JMR
The tax & spend drug war looks racist in the real world.
I knew you'd like that one.
April 24, 2008 - 13:30 ET by BlondeI mean, really....why legislate stupidity?
If these rednecks want to look like morons, so be it. But since I heard about this yesterday, I've seen a bunch of these, um, nuts on the road.
David Gregory, do you know which damn network you lie for? ~ Uncle Jimbo, @Blackfive
Ya I bet theye looked like
April 24, 2008 - 14:40 ET by Dan The Man 2Ya I bet theye looked like Bulls err I mean fools for showing thier nuts huh?
Nuke em til they glow then shoot em in the dark.
In answer to my own question....
April 24, 2008 - 13:28 ET by BlondeDon't these people have anything important to do?
Yeah...I guess they really do!
David Gregory, do you know which damn network you lie for? ~ Uncle Jimbo, @Blackfive
Indiana has a license plate
April 24, 2008 - 13:10 ET by balboaIndiana has a license plate that says "In God We Trust."
Let's open.....
April 24, 2008 - 13:26 ET by ForeverOnTheRightthe Bakken Oil feild in North Dakota too! But first lets put a restaining order on those obstructionist "Enviromental" groups (in quotes because I think they are foux environmental groups, they are just loony-left wacko groups that worship mother earth and don't really care for their fellow humans).
FOTR,it's open, it's a difficult drilling operation,low recovery
April 24, 2008 - 14:07 ET by upcountrywaterDrill 10,000 feet, into a deposit that is sponge like 35 feet wide. Then turn your bits to drill on the horozonal. It's not as bad as oil, (tar) sands or oil shale.. extraction is slow.
At $120 a bbl it's now (evil word) profitable.
One drilling rig every 50 acres..
<gaia/love>SAVVVE The Whales N' Earth; conserve N' recycle !
IranianUranium<sleep>New/Infrastructure/repair?/ROFLMAO
delete
April 24, 2008 - 14:11 ET by upcountrywaterdelete
Carter's Hamas Visit
April 24, 2008 - 15:18 ET by DemonhunterATLANTA (Reuters) - Former U.S. President Jimmy Carter on Wednesday accused Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice of not telling the truth about warnings she said her department gave Carter not to speak to Hamas before a Middle East trip.
The State Department has said U.S. Assistant Secretary of State David Welch, the top U.S. diplomat for the Middle East, issued the warning before Carter, a veteran of Middle East diplomacy, went on his trip last week.
http://news.yahoo.co...
Really Jimmy, you had no idea? Curiously, Googlenews and USA Today archives can't find the USA Today story stating they did despite the fact some recall seeing it.
http://www.townhall....
Perhaps Jimmy or his staff might have read the local news, like this Rueters report from April 10th:
The US State Department said on Thursday it had advised ex-President Jimmy Carter against meeting the leader of Hamas in Syria next week, saying it went against US policy of isolating the group.
Carter has in recent days discussed with the State Department's point person on Israeli-Palestinian iss