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For general discussion and debate. Possible talking point:

  • McCain takes Florida
  • Rudy to call it quits and endorse McCain
  • Schwarzenegger to endorse McCain.

These events seem guaranteed to push the mainstream media into Manic McCain Mode doing everything within their power to advance the least conservative Republican presidential candidate with every opportunity.

Is McCain becoming inevitable, or is there still a lot left to this horse race? Do you believe Rush is right about conservatives sitting out the election if McCain is the candidate thereby destroying the Republican Party. Or, will the right recognize that the growing socialist tide sweeping the Democrat Party and their presidential candidates needs to be stopped by someone, and that despite some of McCain's positions, he is far better than Hillary or Obama?

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McCain is far better than Obama or Hillary

Especially Obama. If Hillary were to win there would at least be some type of backlash, but Obama will continue to be a media darling and have a Dem Congress for 8 years.
Conservatives who would allow that to happen are not reasonable.

Also - A vote for anyone but Romny = a vote for McCain now

Also - A vote for anyone but Romny = a vote for McCain now. Don't waste your vote on Huckabee or Paul unless you want to see Hillary and Obama pass national Health care, the fairness Doctrine, unfettered abortion, and more government control of everything you say, think or do. Not to mention weak national defense and a military that will only be filled with a draft.

Considering that democratic

Considering that democratic national health care plans are among the biggest anathematic issues to conservatives, I have to wonder why Romney is the favorite now. He masterminded the health care reform in Massachusetts that requires all citizens to have state-subsisidzed insurance if they don't get it through an employer. I have an extra 5 pages of paperwork on my MA state tax return this year, just to document that I did, in fact, have coverage. What makes you think he won't try to make it nationwide?

"He was, and is yet, most likely, the wearisomest, self-righteous
pharisee that ever ransacked a Bible to rake the promises to himself
and fling the curses on his neighbors."
-Emily Bronte

Perhaps because MA is a

Perhaps because MA is a state and not a country. Romney's position is that the economy is the critical component in this election. National security will be of paramount concern to maintaining a healthy economy. National healthcare will not be. You can bet he will not simply give in to the Dems for the sake of making nice. A successful businessman knows how to handle fiscal issues and make contingency plans if things go awry. Having a president who does not, by his own admission, understand the economy is extremely dangerous.

Fine, although how you can

Fine, although how you can argue that healthcare issues are economically-irrelevant, I certainly don't know. My only point is that romney spearheaded a universal healthcare program at the state level which involves punitive taxation for those who do not participate. A casual dismissal along the lines of 'well that's a state program, not federal', seems to miss the point. Isn't a nominee's previous political work some kind of indicator of his plans for the country? I'm not saying he would definitely do this, just surprised it's not more of a concern.

"He was, and is yet, most likely, the wearisomest, self-righteous
pharisee that ever ransacked a Bible to rake the promises to himself
and fling the curses on his neighbors."
-Emily Bronte

There is plenty more concern

There is plenty more concern about McCain. His finance reform did not do a very good job at reform, he tried to quietly run an amnesty bill through congress and has committed to hog-tying our economy with a global warming treaty that will only have the impact of straining our economy further. I'll take the slim risk of having a healthcare plan forced down our throats by a fiscal conservative.

Fair enough. I'm an

Fair enough. I'm an unaffiliated leftist and at this point I think I'd vote for Romney over Hillary in the general. I would really like to see a woman president, but not just any woman president...

"He was, and is yet, most likely, the wearisomest, self-righteous
pharisee that ever ransacked a Bible to rake the promises to himself
and fling the curses on his neighbors."
-Emily Bronte

I'd rather have Romny's MA Health Plan

than Obama's or Clinton's or the one which would give free or subsidized health care to people who can afford it. Both Obama and Clinton are the worst candidates for the middle class.

In IL, our Dem Governor and Dem Congress passed state subsidized health care for children and had such low participation that they had to to keep raising the limits and now we are paying for people who can afford it on their own. Many people taking advantage of it are wealthy self employed people. They aren't cheating - they are encouraged to take advantage of it. Who wouldn't?

That is the type of thing Obama and Clinton will do. The middle class who are employed by companies will be subsidizing the middle class who are self employed even though most self employed professionals make more money. It's crazy.

I don't have that much of a problem with Romny's MA plan because it requires those who can pay to pay. I truly believe the majority of uninsured can afford it but choose not to.

FL vote count 53% REP!

This system really sucks! I voted Perot and that helped get Clinton in. Now I want Paul to limit government to sensible levels and now Obama or Clinton can get in. The media does not present stories on how to fix washington, and that we need LESS govt. for a strong economy.

I checked the FL numbers: Looks like about 1,895,000 voted REP and 1,699,000 voted DEM. That is 53% REP. FL was 55% Bush in 2004.

Maybe many older Americans want liberal hand outs so it makes sense that McCain is their man. When you have limited income you pay very little tax so that is not a priority. Maximum freebees (that many never paid enough into to deserve) are the priority. Never mind if these programs (existing and future proposals) are economically unfeasible and would undermine good medical practices to a cattle trough socialist system.

What happened to a FREE society? I hope the other states put McCain behind again. Less than 2M FL REP votes have such an influence is crazy. Why don't they debate all the issues fairly w/ many candidates. Then have primaries on the same day accross the country. That way you vote your mind and don't have to factor in who may win or not win... The best man could then win when you take the politics out.

as NB goes so goes the

as NB goes so goes the RNC:)...

NB has chosen Mitt...

It will play out...

I hope you are right Truth

I hope you are right Truth

A McCain nomination would be an absolute miracle...

me too - McCain is not popular among Republicans - a really big trust problem - much bigger than Mitt...

And again Mitt has a ton of executive experience - McCain, Obama, Hillary have none to speak of, if any - the national election will place that in the glaring spotlight...

Just like Kerry - who was way more qualified than Hillary or Obama - at least he had a substantial legislative record but it was still not enough even with the MSM full-court press behind him - McCain has a record at least as well...

But McCain is despised among the bulk of the RNC - and rightly so - he's a well established RINO - the MSM endorsement is a big negative for him...

Mitt may be a RINO as well but he gets the benefit of the doubt for now coming from a socialist republic...

Our primaries are liberal weighted, John will have big lead soon

All the northeastern states are voting next with winner take all. The conservative states are not winner take all on Super Tuesday.

Texas could decide the election after Super Tuesday

...Romney, like Reagan, may

...Romney, like Reagan, may have to run for the nomination again next time...

I hope you are wrong, but

I hope you are wrong, but you may very well be right. I'd like to say I have faith in America not to repeat the same mistake of voting for a Jimmy Carter before voting for someone who knows what they are trying to achieve, but most Americans have a short memory, and the drive-bys sure won't remind them!

Edwards is out

Breitbart Headline.  John Edwards is pulling out.  He's not endorsing yet.  Looks like he'll use that for leverage on VP.  I'm still shocked that Florida gave the win to McCain.  Hopefully the Republicans on Super Tuesday will see through the RINO camouflage.  Remember everyone....JUAN HERNANDEZ works for McCain.  JUAN FREAKING HERNANDEZ!!!

Stultus est sicut stultus facit

Edwards drops out - Endorses McCain

Okay, not really. But then again, it wouldn't suprise me. The only difference between RINO McLame and the DIMs is that he is tough on national security. He sides with Ted Kennedy more than Hellary does....

It's not Right vs. Left; it is Right vs. Wrong

Good! And it has nothing

Good!

And it has nothing to do with his politics. He needs to go home and take care of his wife and his family.

duplicate post

duplicate

duplicate post - deleted

.

Edwards drops Out of the Campaign

I'm going to miss Edwards -- and her husband, the candidate.

After all, who's going to call in to Hardball now when people like Ann Coulter are on?

___________________________________ 

If you can read this, thank a teacher. If it is in English, thank a Soldier. - My barber

TnT Well you know what

TnT

Well you know what they say: hair today, gone tomorrow.

Check out my exclusive edit of BBC News America's interview with Mrs Clinton: It's news to me!

The Media loves McCain.

The Media loves McCain. That is enough for all conservatives to beware. We all know they DO NOT care about our views.

The media also hates Mitt....hmmm. Looks like a good choice.

It was a hard night. I look

It was a hard night. I look at the results and some how can’t believe it. The Grand Old Party, well I for one am not feeling too grand.

 

The Grand Old Party in Florida has just nominated for the Republican presidential nomination, the man who enthusiastically promoted  amnesty for illegal aliens, Social Security credit for illegal aliens, criminal trials for terrorists, stem-cell research on human embryos, crackpot global warming legislation and free speech-crushing campaign-finance laws.

 

The man who had opposed the Bush tax cuts, a marriage amendment to the Constitution, waterboarding terrorists and drilling in Alaska.

The man who had called the ads of the Swift Boat Veteransfor Truth "dishonest and dishonorable."

 

Well, my note to the NYT’s, are we following your blueprint?  Did we do just what you wanted us to do?

I cant believe with my eyes that a majority of Republicans would follow what the NYT said, and vote for Mc Cain.

Yesterday W, put his foot down. Now after 7 years “we deside to to a little something about earmarks” not much but a little. That is the way to read your base there, W.

There is a total intellectual vacuum of the GOP leadership,

What a gutless party we have become. 

 

 

 

These are the boys of Pointe du Hoc. Ronald Reagan- 40th Anniversary of D-Day

→ Gutless Party

Afraid you're right, USA.  He's more RINO than Bush, and I don't think we're all that willing to put up with more of the same.

He's certainly not "change"

♣ a seal

Yea what is worse then a

Yea what is worse then a RINO that loves the lime light. UGH..

 

 

 

These are the boys of Pointe du Hoc. Ronald Reagan- 40th Anniversary of D-Day

Look, if people were going

Look, if people were going in "undeclared" and getting Republican ballots to vote for McCain, that could have had an effect. And he didn't win by all that much.

I am still hoping that Romney can pull this out. I'm thinking that Mc ("I'll build the g-d fence if they want!")Cain won't be able to hold his temper in for the duration.

Yea I notice no one is

Yea I notice no one is looking into that. I wonder why?It was perfect for the Dems. no one running, what is there to loose?I haven't given up, but I get so tired of the MSM telling US, what we should do.I think that the Dems have to be jumping up and down right now.Some things we might never get back, the SCOUS, 20 million that might be citizens. 

 

 

 

These are the boys of Pointe du Hoc. Ronald Reagan- 40th Anniversary of D-Day

McCain

John McLame slogan "More electable than Bob Dole". Hillary and Obama must be having a great days knowing that if the Republicans nominate McCain their election is assured. This must have been how Nixon felt when the Dems trotted out George McGovern.

Dole

Right on. McCain is Bob Dole without the niceness.  It's his turn (to lose). I know a pretty influencial insider who told me over a year ago that the RINO's in Washington had already decided that its the Democrats' turn. I guess I was wrong to laugh at that notion.

McCain , when nominated, is going to lose big. He's a nasty little twit, and quite liberal. I, for one, will not vote. I figure the bigger the loss, the better. Let them work hard to screw my beloved nation and maybe we'll wake up in 212.

NEVER,NEVER trust a "liberal"

Choate update: Follow The Money

A piece in today's Hartford Courant says there are reports that the school's "left-of-center alums....flooded the school with calls and e-mails threatening to cancel their donations if Rove wasn't replaced as commencement speaker."

The school caved to threats and pushed Rove to accept "an alternate date" to come to campus.  So much for the high-minded claim that students were just exercising their freedom of speech, and that it was Rove's decision.

So it wasn't just a bunch

So it wasn't just a bunch of bratty teenagers? Well that kind of tanks the element of this discussion that this whole thing was the result of bratty over-entitled teenagers.

So let's consider this news. The incident was sparked by alums who used their money and their potential donations as political leverage. Shouldn't you conservatives be proud? I mean, whenever the issue of campaign finance reform comes up, y'all start shrieking that restricting how people use their money for political purposes is the same as squelching first amendment rights. Hell, after the taser incident in Florida, our very own Blonde even speculated that if she'd known Kerry would be invited to her distinguished alma mater, she would have made a few calls to the alumni association.

People who were financially successful in life using their money to influence political decisions. That's the conservative ideal, my friends. Too bad it involves Rove, so it's a little harder for you to cheer about it....

"He was, and is yet, most likely, the wearisomest, self-righteous
pharisee that ever ransacked a Bible to rake the promises to himself
and fling the curses on his neighbors."
-Emily Bronte

...of course, if blonde had

...of course, if blonde had done that, and it had worked, you all would have missed out on the spectacle of a bourgeois liberal kid being, ahem, "appropriately dealt with by the fine law enforcement officers of UF".

"He was, and is yet, most likely, the wearisomest, self-righteous
pharisee that ever ransacked a Bible to rake the promises to himself
and fling the curses on his neighbors."
-Emily Bronte

hahaha! Jason, you've GOT to be kidding.

But, sigh, I know you're not.....

Blaming conservatives for something done by leftists?  Wow, you leftists have your very own language.  Read below:

"He was a would-be sharp operator who lacked for the satisfaction of his ambition only the quality of sharpness and who expended all of his energies on preserving his opinions from contamination." -Michael Chabon, "

EDIT:

How does this revelation exonerate the bratty teenagers?

I'm not blaming anyone, I'm

I'm not blaming anyone, I'm stating that the use of one's own money to wield influence is considered a cherished privilege. The right tends to more vocally defend it (as I stated, especially when CFR comes up), but obviously leftists have no compunction about it either. As to the 'high-mindedness' of the students, that is what Warner's orignial story focused on, so that is what we replied to.

"He was, and is yet, most likely, the wearisomest, self-righteous
pharisee that ever ransacked a Bible to rake the promises to himself
and fling the curses on his neighbors."
-Emily Bronte

LOL, Jason, that's a pretty strained rationale

...silly, too.

(gotta go for awhile.  I'll check in later for more Wednesday Comics With JasonC.)

I'm not saying it's good

I'm not saying it's good for our culture, RJ. Just anticipating the cries of "Rove was censored by those rich liberal alums donation-cessation threats".

Believe, me I'm finding this whole Choate incident endlessly amusing. 

"He was, and is yet, most likely, the wearisomest, self-righteous
pharisee that ever ransacked a Bible to rake the promises to himself
and fling the curses on his neighbors."
-Emily Bronte

I think I have to go with

I think I have to go with Jason on this one. They used their money as influence. Sometimes that's the only leverage one has, and it's certainly not a new phenomenon

JasonC

It just goes to show that free speech is only allowed for the left.The left likes to spew 1st amendment rights but denies those that dont follow their communist ways.Yes they have the right to spend their money the way they want and should have a influence on how their children are schooled.Doesnt change the fact that they are intolerant and closed minded.They follow their little red book and allow only communist to speak while others are censored by them.

let me get this right Well....

So they should have the inherent right to influence what goes on at their children's school, but by putting that right into practice they are being Communistic thugs?

does not compute...

Exactly whose first amendment rights are being violated by this little flare-up. Say "Rove's," I double-dog dare you.

"He was, and is yet, most likely, the wearisomest, self-righteous
pharisee that ever ransacked a Bible to rake the promises to himself
and fling the curses on his neighbors."
-Emily Bronte

JasonC

Dont twist my words.Yes I believe parents should have influence in school.But their method of only allowing one view is a crock.I know you are probably a proud supporter of those Columbia students that rushed the stage when the minutemen were there.

The rights for students that wanted to hear him.I doubt only 1 student was in on the vote to have him come.So they were denied their right.

Does that mean the small

Does that mean the small handful of students that wanted him are being DEPRIVED of their RIGHT to hear Stephen Colbert speak?

What's this method of only allowing one view all about? Do you keep current with the political views and censoring habits of Choate parents? What one view is being promoted through this?

I think the Columbia students' decision to rush the stage was asinine. I think the Minutemen are thugs, yes, but it would have been far more interesting and productive to engage them in conversation. Rushing the stage only made the students look reactionary and foreclosed the possibility of a debate.

And I'm afriad I was not twisting your words at all. You said:

"The left likes to spew 1st amendment rights but denies those that dont
follow their communist ways.Yes they have the right to spend their
money the way they want and should have a influence on how their
children are schooled.Doesnt change the fact that they are intolerant
and closed minded.They follow their little red book and allow only
communist to speak while others are censored by them."

How is this anything but saying that they should have an inflence in theory but that by putting that into practice they're being Communistic or Stalinist? Sorry, that doesn't work.

"He was, and is yet, most likely, the wearisomest, self-righteous
pharisee that ever ransacked a Bible to rake the promises to himself
and fling the curses on his neighbors."
-Emily Bronte

Well, Jason

I see you've continued blathering on about students, speakers, and even mentioned me.

Kindly leave me out of it....unless I choose to be in it.

BTW...who cares about Choate?  Or the rest of academe for that matter?  You all live in la la land....enjoy. 

David Gregory, do you know which damn network you lie for? ~ Uncle Jimbo, @Blackfive

 

Blonde... I didn't start

Blonde...

I didn't start this topic or this line of reasoning. I'm responding to Warner's original story about who is responsible.

Choate is not exactly 'academia'.

Sorry for mentioning you. I forgot about that ironclad rule of etiquette that you can't make reference to posts by other NBers.

Academics live in la-la land? Whatever. We also make a living doing something we love. And college education is in high demand in this country. So why should we care if people stereotype us as eccentric?

"He was, and is yet, most likely, the wearisomest, self-righteous
pharisee that ever ransacked a Bible to rake the promises to himself
and fling the curses on his neighbors."
-Emily Bronte

JasonC

"So they should have the inherent right to influence what goes on at their children's school, but by putting that right into practice they are being Communistic thugs?"

Never called them thugs.Communist yes.That in regards in their stopping Rove from speaking.If it had been Bill Maher or Rosie I sure you probably would be up in flames.Two standards for the left.As far as the minutemen being thugs well you have the right to your opininon.No facts to back it up but you have the right to be wrong.

OK, forget I used the word

OK, forget I used the word thugs (the first time anyway). I don't entirely understand why they are Communistic; I didn't hear anything about them establishing collectives and appropriating farms and factories, but I'll let it go.

Rosie?! I'm a little insulted that you think I'd be thrilled about a speech by here. Don't care about Maher one way or the other. These things are not the point. If, for some masochistic reason, an organization wanted to hire Rosie to speak at an event, and people who contribute to said organization object and imply or explicitly state that they will cease to contribute if Rosie indeed shows up, I'd not only be saying "well, that's their right..." I'd also be saying "Whew, they sure dodged a bullet..."

I do believe Gilchrist and the Minutemen are thugs. I haven't the time or inclination to get into something so off-topic, but I've dicsussed it elsewhere on NB and I'm sure it will come up again. My point was that although I find them politically and morally disagreeable, and they certainly wouldn't have been my choice of guest speaker, if I'd been a Columbia student I certainly would have been in my seat waiting to ask a question, not making a childish scene. Direct, physical protest should be used against fascist and totalitarian governments. Anyone else, if you're smart and articulate enough, you should be able to take down with words.

"He was, and is yet, most likely, the wearisomest, self-righteous
pharisee that ever ransacked a Bible to rake the promises to himself
and fling the curses on his neighbors."
-Emily Bronte

I agree with Jason here.

I agree with Jason here. It's a two-way street, right, gang?
Save your energy for bigger fights!

Rog...

...I love when we agree.

"He was, and is yet, most likely, the wearisomest, self-righteous
pharisee that ever ransacked a Bible to rake the promises to himself
and fling the curses on his neighbors."
-Emily Bronte

So do I , Jason. So do I...

So do I , Jason. So do I...

He who pays the piper calls

He who pays the piper calls the tune. Can't argue with that.

In fact, I applaud it. As I did when people protested the Dixie Chicks.

Check out my exclusive edit of BBC News America's interview with Mrs Clinton: It's news to me!

Another good example that I

Another good example that I wish I'd thought of while giving Warner a list of speakers or performers protested by conservatives.

"He was, and is yet, most likely, the wearisomest, self-righteous
pharisee that ever ransacked a Bible to rake the promises to himself
and fling the curses on his neighbors."
-Emily Bronte

Well the Dixie Chicks is not

Well the Dixie Chicks is not exactly the same thing. That was the free market operating. People decided not to buy their albums after what Maines said. They were not threatened: Don't say that or we won't sell your CD's here....it was a REaction to what they said. Now if Rove spoke at Choate, without all this brouhaha beforehand, and then because of it alumni wrote and said "Way to go, morons, I'm not giving you another penny!" that would be the same.

I don't see a difference.

I don't see a difference. Isn't this just a case of the alumni giving Choate fair warning? I don't believe Rove was threatened either, at least not with anything more consequential than a couple of kids walking out and ruining their own graduation.

At any rate, after like 250 comments on this story, WTH moved the goalposts, so to speak, to make it more about the political leaning of the people objecting to the speaker rather than that of the speaker him or herself in order to support his precious (and mindblowingly inaccurate) claim that conservatives NEVER protest other people's public appearances or speeches or performances. He also had the nerve to finish this with 'QED', which was so ironic and funny I fell out of my chair laughing.

"He was, and is yet, most likely, the wearisomest, self-righteous
pharisee that ever ransacked a Bible to rake the promises to himself
and fling the curses on his neighbors."
-Emily Bronte

Jason

If the parents forced the school to do it for the money, then I understand. Like I said on that blog, I got angry because I thought Rove had been threatened a la Ann Coulter. If the school made the decision without the kids threatening riot, then it is a different story.

If RJ's update about the

If RJ's update about the situation is accurate (and he lives in CT, where there's probably a bit more commentary on Choate than most other places), then it would appear that this idea that a phalanx of 18-year-olds exerted sufficient pressure that Rove dropped out was just a smoke-and-mirror sort of explanation. I don't doubt that a few kids expressed their intention to walk out (perhaps not very seriously), but that the real reason was alumni money makes a LOT more sense.

"He was, and is yet, most likely, the wearisomest, self-righteous
pharisee that ever ransacked a Bible to rake the promises to himself
and fling the curses on his neighbors."
-Emily Bronte

Right, candance, there is a

Right, candance, there is a big difference between being threatened with loss of alumni support (which is an age-old, nonviolent tactic, and all schools are very dependent on alumni support) and students threatening violence if a certain person is allowed to speak.

I haven't heard anything

I haven't heard anything about threats of violence, even from the most critical assessments of this story. At worst, walkouts. Big deal. There was musing that Rove's presence might encourage outsiders to aggressively disrupt the graduation, which puts the administration in a bit of a bind. Sure they could prevent that, but is it worth turning your campus, on graduation day, into a quasi-police state? And besides, these were not threats of violence, but a hypothetical predictions that it could happen.

"He was, and is yet, most likely, the wearisomest, self-righteous
pharisee that ever ransacked a Bible to rake the promises to himself
and fling the curses on his neighbors."
-Emily Bronte

Jason, the difference is

Jason, the difference is this:

Natalie Maines shot off her mouth, people got mad about it and retaliated in the way they knew best: financially.

What the alumni did at Choate comes under the heading of "prior restraint."

One involved a threat; the other (Dixie Chicks) didn't.

Look,  I agreed with you that the alumni were within their rights. The Dixie Chicks thing is "similar" because of speech and money.  I'm just saying that because of different sequence of events, the Dixie Chicks is not the same.

You can agree or not: I'm not going to argue with you over it all day.

 

This will be my last

This will be my last comment; I don't want to argue all day either and we've kept it civil so far.

I agree with your basic assessment of the situation, but "prior restraint" seems like an odd (though perhaps technically accurate) description. If the Choate alumni had hired their own private task force to block Rove from entering campus, OK, that's a little fascistic. But apprising the alumni office that you will not continue to support them financially if they allow Rove to be affiliated with the 2008 graduation seems to me perfectly reasonable, in fact MORE fair than if they kept quiet now and withdrew their donations after the fact.

"He was, and is yet, most likely, the wearisomest, self-righteous
pharisee that ever ransacked a Bible to rake the promises to himself
and fling the curses on his neighbors."
-Emily Bronte

apprising the alumni office

apprising the alumni office that you will not continue to support them
financially if they allow Rove to be affiliated with the 2008
graduation...

Congratulations Jason! You just gave a perfect example of "prior restraint."

Although the term is generally used for government restraint, the principle is the same...forbidding an expression before it even takes place.

And yes, it was a civil discussion, thank you. 

...in which case prior

...in which case prior restraint is not always a necessarily bad thing, but a reasonable product of market forces.

But I'm still not convinced that it is prior restraint, because the decision was still not made by the alumni (it ultimately wasn't actually made by the administration either, but the point is that ultimately it would be their choice). So I'm not sure that wielding influence, as opposed to being the one to conclusively say "Rove will not be speaking here", qualifies.

"He was, and is yet, most likely, the wearisomest, self-righteous
pharisee that ever ransacked a Bible to rake the promises to himself
and fling the curses on his neighbors."
-Emily Bronte

The Dixie Chicks reaction

The Dixie Chicks reaction was not entirely spontaneous, however.  I listened to O'Reilly night after night after night flog the issue as if it were A Defining Moment In Unpatriotic Behavior...and I would imagine that most of the talk radio 'right' followed suit.

Jer

True, very true. "He was,

True, very true.

"He was, and is yet, most likely, the wearisomest, self-righteous
pharisee that ever ransacked a Bible to rake the promises to himself
and fling the curses on his neighbors."
-Emily Bronte

I know Mitt Romney isn't

I know Mitt Romney isn't looking for advice from me (LOL) but if I were on his campaign staff, I would be telling him to start talking Supreme Court Justices. McCain is WAY too willing to work with Democrats on things. He would be all too willing to "work with" Democrats on SCOTUS nominations.

Can't you just picture a President McCain promising to work with Juciciary Committee Chairman Pat Leahy, and having him and Chuck Schumer coming up with a list of  "acceptable" candidates?

If that doesn't frighten the hell out of Republicans, nothing will.

→ Scary MB

He'd have all appointees coming from the 9th Circuit.

♣ a seal

or maybe turn it all over

or maybe turn it all over to the hague...

that's what the UK is doing:)

I agree with you,

I agree with you, motherbelt. Romney needs to distinguish himself from McCain.

Mitt also needs to start

Mitt also needs to start talking up strong immigration enforcement policies.  I've screamed it before, and I'll scream it again...

JUAN FREAKING HERNANDEZ WORKS FOR McCAIN!!

This has to get out in the media, and the only way to do that is for Mitt to use it in debates and speeches.  The MSM will not broadcast it.

Stultus est sicut stultus facit

JUAN FREAKING HERNANDEZ


JUAN FREAKING HERNANDEZ WORKS FOR McCAIN!!

ooooooh, yeaaah! When do you think the MSM will ask him if he agrees with his staffer on "Mexico first!" etc.?

Romney had better bring it up, because the MSM won't.

Cards on the table ...

MB, I think you're right. Judicial philosophy is at the core of conservatism.

I heard a snippet from Tim Russert this morning, saying that the Reagan Coalition is gone. There is no longer any alliance between social conservatives, fiscal conservatives, and foreign policy conservatives that Reagan brought together, because no candidate supports all of those completely. That isn't exactly true, because Romney says all the right things, now at least. The problem is that people perceive that we've had previous versions of Romney, and when version 2.0 contradicts 1.0, there's reason to wonder if 3.0 will contradict the current version. (Can you tell I'm a programmer?)

  • But conservative-haters rush to interpret that as a rejection of conservativism as a whole, and an embrace of the vaporous "moderates." I think it's clearly the opposite. The only popularity any of these guys have is because of their conservatism. They lose voters to the degree they stray from conservatism.
  • So, conservative-haters (especially the pundits in the media) commit a classic logical fallacy: they falsely draw conclusions about the whole from their observations of various parts. (In other words, they assume that since none of the candidates is completely conservative, the party must be veering away from complete conservatism.)

The one constant, however, has to be judicial philosophy. It's the one arena where you can't split the baby. You're either an originalist or you're not. Romney needs to force McCain to show his cards. If they have another debate, and each candidate gets to ask the other a question, Romney should ask McCain whether he would, as president, "absolutely" refuse to negotiate away his nominations. Would McCain publicly agree not to consult with Schumer and Leahy (or any other Democrat) to make the nomination easier, and instead stick to the conservative principles he now brags about and nominate only a strict originalist?

Cards on the table, please ...

Personally, if I were

Personally, if I were Romney I would be contrasting myself with McCain who's mantra is that he wishes "Bipartisanship".

I do not want bipartisanship with the liberals, I seek to defeat them.

Work to get him in office

I will vote for McCain and here's why:

If things go poorly over the next four years with McCain in the WH, the Dims will complain that it is due to the "neocons" and their hurtful agenda. 

If the Dims win control of the WH and things go poorly they will simply lay blame on the previous eight years of President Bush.

Either way, the Dims will blame someone other than themselves for anything negative.  Oh, and if things go well with McCain in office, they will still rail that things are bleak and pain and suffering are going on all around us at alarming rates.

If I had to, I would vote

If I had to, I would vote for McCain over Obama or Clinton. I don't believe in being childish by cutting off my nose to spite my face, since McCain is still considerably better than any of the Dem frontrunners.

With that said, I'll have to bring a clothespin to the voting booth and a pail if I feel the urge to retch. 

 

I don't think it's

I don't think it's childish.  It would be dumb to stay home because there are congressional races going on too, but if we hold our noses and vote for a RINO, we are saying to the GOP "just give us any socialist ruling class elite who thinks we're all a bunch of ignorant hicks and we'll vote for him as long as he has an (R) next to his name." 

Uh uh, not me.  The vote is the only time the people can exercise their power, and if I have to use it to tell the GOP to take their RINO's and go to hell, that's what I'll do.

I agree

And if more of us had that attitiude, maybe the Repub Party would stop putting RINOs up.

I cannot believe we are going to (once again) not have a conservative to vote for.... You'd think they would have learned with the congressional elections in '06......the Dems didn't win control of the House & Senate, it was the Repubs that LOST it.

It's not Right vs. Left; it is Right vs. Wrong

Sorry... My budget simply

Sorry... My budget simply can't afford an Obama or Clinton agenda.

*****

"People only insist that a debate stop when they are afraid of what might be learned if it continues." - George Will 

Same thing, Hero. But I

Same thing, Hero. But I would also say that we can't afford to lose more citizens on our soil because of terrorism either, which I believe would be the case if a Democrat came to office.

...and that's the first

...and that's the first reason why I will support the Republican nominee for president, be it Romney or McCain.

Just because the cafeteria ran out of the entree I wanted most doesn't mean I'm going to stage a protest by not eating.

*****

"People only insist that a debate stop when they are afraid of what might be learned if it continues." - George Will 

I would have to say Obama

I would have to say Obama is less of a threat than McCain because McCain knows how to get his whacky ideas pressed into law...

Obama would do less real damage over his brief 4-year stint - then Romney can run again...

Reagan didn't get the nomination his first time around either did he:)?

SouthJersey1953

the 2006 election was lost and misread by our fearless leaders. They never thought they lost because they were not conservative enough.They are idiots all

The primary is when we

The primary is when we should vote for the best (conservative) candidate. That's the place to make your voice heard against RINOs.

But when it comes to general election, I'm going to vote for the person that will hurt our country the least. Now, if you would be happier with Clinton or Obama as they damage the country to a far greater degree than McCain would ever do, then I don't know what to say.

What will be heard if

What will be heard if McCain gets the nomination?  Won't the Party think moderate/lib is the way to go?  Won't they think that it's time to evict the "religious right" and the "Reagan Conservatives" and remake the Party in the image of Nixon and Ford?

They won't get the message until they have their asses handed to them in the general election.

Of course I wouldn't be happier with H or O, but I believe McCain would do just as much damage to the Country as they would.

There is no way McCain should get the nomination.  He craps on Republicans all the time, yet for some inexplicable reason Party insiders seem to favor him... His nomination would be a poke in the eye to rank and file Republicans.

mattm

You are so right. McCain and his ilk if they win will have the same supreme court choices as O and H. We need to stop the little creep before the convention. I already voted so it is up to the super tuesday states etc.

mattm and Delsa... I

mattm and Delsa...

I agree with you both...my state (Mt.) is on Super Tuesday but a caucus...I and a lot of my pals are very disappointed we can't vote.

MT caucus

bigtimer

how do you think the caucus will turn out? any clue?

Delsa... Not really

Delsa...

Not really yet...I am going to be checking into this quite a bit this week-end though...we do not get any local news here, let alone state news, we get Washington Idaho news, but I am going to be digging on the internet ect.

This state went dem. which is bad enough....lol.

bigtimer

I know how it feels to be in a democrat state. Broward County, FL is no place for republicans. we are sort of like salmon.Always swimming up stream. Good luck

The primary is when we

The primary is when we should vote for the best (conservative)
candidate. That's the place to make your voice heard against RINOs.
-Newsbusterbrown

Neal Boortz has a two-part  survey on his site today... involving McCain and Romney.

Question One: Would you rather vote for McCain or Romney?

Romney has it 87% to 13 %

Question Two: Which one do you think could beat Hillary Clinton or Barack Obama?

Romney wins that one 63%- 37%.

 

Not Fit To Be A DogCatcher

I won't vote for McCain. I won't vote for him as part of a ticket.

The Republicans will lose my party membership, I'll go back to independant, if McCain is the nominee. McCain is a RINO. He has no business running as a Republican, he can go back to trying to be Kerry's VP.

Rush is right. I will sit this one out.

If McCain is anything but a VP nominee..donations will suffer

The Republicans are starving for Money...the Dems have out raised them, and all the Reganites are sitting on $$$'s.  The McCain backers can't run with empty Republican pockets against the DEMS.

Donations are being held in Conservative pockets...McCain will need to Mug'em to get the Money.  

Stimulis: Congress and the president are now agreed on remedies that will not work, expending money they do not have, to fix a problem that may not exist.  Steve Chapman 

Does anyone else think

Does anyone else think Florida was Democrat sabotage? I mean, the Dems had no delegates to gain or lose, so why not cross over and muddy things up for the GOP.

McCain - Clinton - Obama, they're all socialistic ruling-class types.  They are not representatives...

I will vote Libertarian if McCain is the nominee.  I think the Dems know McCain will cause GOP voters to revolt.  It's a good strategy for them...if they could only get their own candidate chosen, then focus on messing up the GOP race... 

Then they can focus their fraud on the General Election where they will poll-jump, get illegals voting, slash GOP tires, buy votes with cigarettes, staff the polling places with Dem operatives...  It's all in the works, folks, so get ready for a disaster.

I think it's possible.

I think it's possible. Florida was supposed to be a "closed" primary. A lot of people showed up saying they were "independents" and then asked for a Republican ballot and were given one. Who knows how many of them were really Democrats? From what I read on Drudge, it sounded like their word was just taken that they were Independents.

The likelihood is that's it

The likelihood is that's it is McCain for the Republicans. Got to face it guys.

I wouldn't rule out him looking seriously at Dr. Rice as his VP pick.

I'm listening to Mary Beth Brown author of Condi: The Life of a Steel Magnolia, and she confirms that while Condi stated in 2005 she wouldn't run for President, she has not ruled out a VP slot.

Check out my exclusive edit of BBC News America's interview with Mrs Clinton: It's news to me!

JB

JB,

What does she bring to the table? What blue state can she produce for McCain?

Somehow, I think her hawkishness and connection to the Iraq war mitigates her gender and her race for most women and most blacks. ns

I agree with Noel. As much

I agree with Noel. As much as it should possibly be otherwise, VP's are usually chosen, not for their qualifications, but to bring in a certain group that the main candidated isn't drawing. Rice would not bring in an extra constituency, or a state. She certainly wouldn't bring the black vote, because she is mostly considered a "house n.... uh, slave" because of her allegience to Bush.

JB...Florida is not a 1,000 delegates

Feb. 5th has yet to weigh in........and it's gonna weigh a lot more than Florida, Cubans, and Snowbirds.

Stimulis: Congress and the president are now agreed on remedies that will not work, expending money they do not have, to fix a problem that may not exist.  Steve Chapman 

JT -- Check the Florida

JT -- Check the Florida exits. Romney's #1 strength issue, the economy just didn't resonate. Weird but true!

He lost on that to McCain I believe. He's not connecting at the moment it seems.

What's he going to talk about now? Has to be illegal immigration I'm guessing.

But you're right. It ain't over till it's over, and other such cliches.

Check out my exclusive edit of BBC News America's interview with Mrs Clinton: It's news to me!

JB check the Total Repub votes...64% against McCain

gee People, are all you guys bad with Numbers like the MSM ?

Over 60% (landslide) of Republicans did not vote for Mac....Get a Grip. 

Stimulis: Congress and the president are now agreed on remedies that will not work, expending money they do not have, to fix a problem that may not exist.  Steve Chapman 

Well, yeah, OK, but you're

Well, yeah, OK, but you're going to have that with 5 candidates in the race, so I'm not sure exactly what that proves. I'm sure that a fair percentage of Republicans who did not vote for McCain in the primary would cast their vote for him in the general election.

And remember: You can also say that 69% of Republicans voted against Romney.

Having said that, I'm still confident that Romney is very much alive and well in this race. McCain has 95 delegates thus far to Romney's 67. The winner needs 1,191 delegates to lock up a nomination.

Well, I guess McCain can count on Giuliani's one delegate's support.

*****

"People only insist that a debate stop when they are afraid of what might be learned if it continues." - George Will 

And now, today's "Paulbot"

And now, today's "Paulbot" edition of The Shrub Report®:

This is for you, DasSarkBot, because you are such a humorless boor and thin-skinned crybaby.

Ron Paul got a whopping THREE PERCENT of the vote in Florida yesterday. That amounts to 62,000 votes, or about $8 per vote from DasBlimp, which, apparently, is kaput. You were right, DasSarkBot. The blimp was a smashing success! The one state DasBlimp could safely traverse (when it wasn't rainy, cloudy, windy, or dark), and the best you mental giants could muster was 3%? Are you able to dress yourself in the morning?

In another stroke of campaigning GENIUS, Ron Paul admits he was focusing more on MAINE instead of Florida. Those 21 delegates are much more valuable than the 57 in Florida. With strategy like that, would you trust this 70-plus year old man to map out a family trip, let alone run our country?

There are some funny Paulbot phrases and websites out there. Funny because many of the "faithful" are anti-war weenies: ronpaulWARROOM.com, "Ron Paul DVD BOMB", Ron Paul sign BLITZ", etc...

Oh, also, I think I hit DasSarkBot at little close to home with my recent "donate blood" comments, since that is exactly what some Paulbots are doing! When does the Sperm for Paul drive begin?

Remember, folks, February 1st is the anniversary of the Exalted One and his royal Queen. Celebrate Reverend Moon's, er, Congressman Paul's Holy Day by donating your savings! With a lot of luck, Ron Paul will get over 5% of the Maine vote on Saturday! That is, if the shadow Bilderberg-controlled government does not assassinate their Blessed Leader by then, of course.

Since none of this laughable news conforms with DasSarkBot's sad little world, I will obviously be called a whiner. Unfortunately for DasSarkBot, I am using his own websites against him.

To quote yourself, DasSarkBot: deal with it.

 

ROFLMAO!!

Roger, you're the best. 

Quote of the day:  When does the Sperm for Paul drive begin?

That brings a whole new meaning to the phrase:  " I'm pulling for Ron Paul."

Stultus est sicut stultus facit

Yeah, that one deserved the

Yeah, that one deserved the proverbial "SHACK!"

Perfect, absolutely perfect!

Perfect, absolutely perfect!

Funny shrubbo. You realize

Funny shrubbo. You realize the Paulestinians are holding a phone in vote on you rIght now on whether to order a hit.

it's running..

KILL ROGER... 115%

DON'T KILL ROGER - 0%

Check out my exclusive edit of BBC News America's interview with Mrs Clinton: It's news to me!

Well that's good news. An

Well that's good news. An hour ago, Don't Kill Roger was at -20%

*****

"People only insist that a debate stop when they are afraid of what might be learned if it continues." - George Will 

I agree with Rush as a

I agree with Rush as a McCain victory will impact my voting. If McCain and Obama win, I'm voting for Obama. If McCain and Hillary win, I'm enjoying a quiet evening at home. I know... some say this is an infantile move, but here is my reasoning.

I don't see a dime's worth of difference between Hillary and McCain. McCain has an extremely well documented history of tossing anyone or anything under the bus if it benefits him. I think that anyone who believes that this guy wil veto universal healthcare, ban abortion or amnesty, or do anything else he's promised to is kidding themselves. He's going to sign off on the same bills that Hillary would, and if someone's going to sign those, I would prefer they be a Democrat. Also, what about 2012? Do we really want the GOP to tell a real, solid, conservative that they can't run because we need to support RINO McCain since he's the sitting president??? Four years of a democrat is better than eight years of a pretender like McCain.

While I refuse to vote for Hillary McCain, I will vote for Obama. I figure at worst he'll be as bad as Hillary McCain, but there's a chance he might better, so I'm picking him as the lesser evil over Hillary or McCain. I don't like the thought of voting for a flip-flopper like Romney, but looking at his track record, he does have a lot of election year conversions. But, once he's elected he tends to stay with the point of view that got him elected, which makes him a lot more reliable than McCain in my eyes.

Bruzilla - voting for Obama would be a huge mistake

Obama will do much more damage than Clinton or McCain. He'll continue to be a media darling and will keep control of congress. If Obama gets in you can kiss the Republican party goodbye for at least 8 years and probably 16 years with his V.P. succeeding him.

I agree 100% with your

I agree 100% with your assessment, but I think the same assessment can be made of McCain or Clinton. The difference between the three would be that with Obama there's some chance that he might not screw things up too badly, which is absent from the other two.

I would rather see a screwed up four years of Obama, and run a rock-solid conservative against hin in 2012, than get McCain in there and have to vote for him again in 2012.

Many screw ups don't show up in the first four years

especially if they are not highlighted by the media. If Obama or Hillary get in they will spend thier first four years laying the groundwork for continued liberal domination. They will pass the fairness doctrine, put even more restraints on campaign finance that only affect Republicans, give more funding to the U.N. and N.P.R and PBS, appoint Ginsburg type judges and many other things.

Hillary won't get treated like Bush, but she won't get a complete free ride by the media. Obama will have a free ride and I have little doubt that if he gets in, it will be 8 and probably 16 years of total liberal domination.

I'm not saying that there's

I'm not saying that there's not a good chance that everything you predict will come true. There is a good chance that a President Obama or Clinton could bring back the fairness doctrine, but I also see a good chance that a President McCain would also. I don't see him having much love for conservative talk radio, in fact it would probably benefit him to toss it under the bus with all his other former enemies.

But with Obama I do see a chance that he won't do those things, and I don't see that chance with Hillary or McCain. I see the make or break for conservatives being 2012 and not 2008.

Many screw ups don't show up in the first four years

especially if they are not highlighted by the media. If Obama or Hillary get in they will spend thier first four years laying the groundwork for continued liberal domination. They will pass the fairness doctrine, put even more restraints on campaign finance that only affect Republicans, give more funding to the U.N. and N.P.R and PBS, appoint Ginsburg type judges and many other things.

Hillary won't get treated like Bush, but she won't get a complete free ride by the media. Obama will have a free ride and I have little doubt that if he gets in, it will be 8 and probably 16 years of total liberal domination.

4 + 4

The first for years of the next president will see the weaning of the MSM from their BDS. Four years of, "If it weren't for the Bush administration" and "cleaning up the mess left by Bush" type of stories that will lead us into the next election cycle. All the time the negative stories will be hidden.
During the next election cycle you will hear how much better things have been for four years but if you don't feel it personally it is because the new plans haven't had time to overcome how awful things were during Bush's Republican administration.
Message repeated hourly - those evil republicans screwed everything up and the Democrats will fix it if you just close your eyes and give them time to accomplish their goals.
The next four years will be spent trying to convince Americans that socialism is Americanism but don't bring nationalism into it.

^ A very good reason to put

^ A very good reason to put a Republican in the White House. 

*****

"People only insist that a debate stop when they are afraid of what might be learned if it continues." - George Will 

you may be right, but....

I do not think I can bring myself to vote for McCain. I agree with Bruzilla.
There is just too little difference between Hellary and John

It's not Right vs. Left; it is Right vs. Wrong

I still think it's going to

I still think it's going to be Obama and John. 

The Conservative movement is about to be reborn.

Whatever you think about

Whatever you think about McCain (and I'd rather not :-), he votes for more of our issues than he does for the Democrats (check the ACU or ADA sites for confirmation of this). IOW, if anybody thinks that McCain is no different than Obama or Clinton, I respectfully have to question their thought processes.

Cal Thomas has a great column

Cal Thomas' column today in the Washington Times "The Republican Retreat" is excellent reading. 

 

It's not Right vs. Left; it is Right vs. Wrong

McCain's Platform

For those who want to vote for McCain because he would be better than Hillary, I implore you to take a second look at his platform:

 

Sounds like Hillary lite to me.

candance...

The GOP is officially in deep doo-doo!

Does anyone here think that there is any chance of getting the party to come back to conservatism? 

The Conservative movement is about to be reborn.

→ Sure Clear

Romney needs to get very specific about the differences between himself and McCain.

Personally I think he needs to drive home emphatically (and with a somewhat detailed proposal) his plan to seal the border with a fence.  There is no greater National Security issue than the open borders.  But it's not on the front burner now, and it should be.

♣ a seal

Cool, I know you mean well,

Cool, I know you mean well, but when I asked if the party would come back to conservatism, I should have stated that I meant true conservatism, not conservatism-lite.

As bad as McCain is, it would be hard for me, and others like me to vote for Romney. 

The Conservative movement is about to be reborn.

→ In that case, Clear

For any kind of real start at reclaiming influence, much less control, we would need some Conservative Congressmen.

Let's start by naming off the first 10 true Conservatives.  You go first.

♣ a seal

Oh yeah, listing Congress

Oh yeah, listing Congress critters is gonna help this presidential election. Not!

My point was... Romney is not a true conservative, and just barely makes it into the category of conservative-lite.

A true conservative would never have used a MANDATE to force a welfare program on the people. 

The Conservative movement is about to be reborn.

→ Clear

I was responding to your post:

"Does anyone here think that there is any chance of getting the party to come back to conservatism?"

My reply was as open ended as your question. I don't think we really have a significant pool of Conservatives to choose from.

It wasn't until your last post that you specified "this election" Honestly, sadly, I don't think it can happen this election.

Sorry for misreading your intent with the original post.

not this year - maybe by 2010

Hoping and praying conservatism will come back before the libs destroy this country (which Hillary could accomplish in less than 2 years) 

 

It's not Right vs. Left; it is Right vs. Wrong

candance........

and it's no surprise that Giuliani plans to endorse McCain. They are very similar....Giuliani law-and-order, McCain a hawk on the war...other than that they are both pretty liberal.

See my comment above about McCain and "working with" Democrats on SCOTUS nominees. It makes me shudder to think of it.

I was beyond disappointed

I was beyond disappointed last night....I am sick this morning....the agenda driven msm got what they wished for with help from the Florida politico's...plus I heard on Rush yesterday... (beyond the plain dirty politics McCain pulled that we all know about)... that undeclared were going in and voting for McCain...

I will never under any circumstances vote for John McCain.

Ever.

By the way...Romney had better have some fire in his belly tonight and do well in the debates...it is sink or swim tonight...and I pray my power quits flickering here and I get to see the debate tonight.

Bartlet 4 America

Anybody else notice that Bravo ran eight straight hours of The West Wing the day before the Florida primaries? A Democrat in the White House. Doing good things for the people. Coincidence?

 

 


A Democrat is someone who wants to put YOUR money where HIS mouth is.

OMG, I was thinking that. I

OMG, I was thinking that. I saw it when my husband was going around the channels a couple of time of different times. I had the same thought ! LOL

Just like them bringing out the movie "An American President" in time for the 1996 election. And now Oliver Stone plans a movie on Bush just in time for Nov. 2008....any guesses on his take on that?

Why vote Libertarian?

If you are conservative or vote Republican in general, voting Libertarian helps them stay on the ballots which only hurts Republican candidates. In my home state, a third party only keeps its recognition by pulling in certain percentages of the popular vote, or by the number of names on a petition. Continued Libertarian support, which in my opinion is a complete waste of a vote and money, divides the conservative vote and thus helps liberal and Democratic nominees.

Movement

Everyone moves during an election.
When a Republican moves to the left to gain votes, they become Democrat. When a Libertarian moves to the left to gain votes, they becomes a Republican. What do you want?

 

 

A Democrat is someone who wants to put YOUR money where HIS mouth is.

→ Teddy vs NOW sheer poetry

This thing about Teddy and NY chapter of NOW is sheer poetry.

"We are repaid with his abandonment!"  He's picked the new guy over us. He's joined the list of progressive white men who can't or won't handle the prospect of a woman president who is Hillary Clinton."

Hey Teddy, can you say "Bob Packwood"

♣ a seal

Breck Boy

GREAT NEWS. THE BRECK BOY IS GOING TO BE HISTORY. WHAT A GLORIOUS DAY.

If you ain't the lead dog, the scenery never changes.-Lewis Grizzard

Economy Tanks

This is the problem that this site faces in the editors and people taking bad economic news as a personal attack on them or President Bush, because the Feds in a Yahoo story confirmed what I have said about the functioning section of the economy that is only grew at .6% in December and was not doing well at around 2.2% all in 2007.

It does not matter who the President is.......what matters IS THAT THIS SITE start promoting an econmic plan for American where production is increasing wealth not inflation.
That is why I can care less now who is President as McCain is a leftist mafia crank, Obama is a 3rd world socialist crank, Hillary is a communist crank and Romney is a Mormon national socialist crank.

None of them are going to have a thing nor will America UNLESS we:

1. Produce more crude and with Japan develope methane ice.

2. Produce bio fuels to stretch American production.

3. Install a homeowner grant package of disaster shelters which will produce a 5 year expansion of the economy in good jobs and the solar panels will help the power grid and lower homeowner's energy bills while taking money from the global warming scam.

4. Initiate as I have posted here a deep sea mining cartel who will sell minerals and metals to Asia for the balance of trade with no income tax on those corporations IF they invest that money back into the American economy.

5. Set a savings interest rate for banks which will allow for their stability and a sound investment for people away from unstable stock markets.

6. Arrest George Soros for the world criminal he is which will send an absolute message to the cartels to stop or they will be jailed too and executed for crimes against humanity.

 

http://biz.yahoo.com...

 

 

*HIC IACET ARTORIVS REX QVONDAM REXQVE FVTVRVS

I posted this in the

I posted this in the Huckabee/ Hannity post, but I thought it was relevant here as well...

 

Hannity just used Huckabee's own words

January 30, 2008 - 12:13 ET by needforcalm

The Huckster is lying just like McCain. He had an interview with Carl Cameron on Fox News in his campaign bus saying that he wasn't going to spend his time, resources and energy on FL since it was winner take all and he knew he couldn't win. So he said he was focusing on GA because it had more delegates to offer.

As for Hucksters chances...all he is doing is staying in the race until McCain locks it up because as long as Gomer stays in the race, he siphons off votes that would go to Romney. In doing so, it sets himself up to be McCain's VP. Look at the numbers in all races so far. Romney has won everytime on people identifying themselves as conservatives. There was an article yesterday that said that independents were voting yesterday when it was supposed to be closed to them and they went strongly for McCain.

So, with Huckster keeping the social conservatives from going to Romney, and the libs voting for McCain, the MSM is getting what they wish for. An unmotivated GOP electorate that will not turn out for McCain in November. Only Romney can rally the base. Once that happens, the rest of the party (Moderates and right leaning independents) will show up as well.  He is the only one with a chance to beat the dems in Nov. and the MSM know that. Conservative thinking will always win out under a national spotlight because only conservative principles keep the country going in the right direction. And McCain is no conservative, so there won't be the black/white ideological differences for all to see.

Am I the only one who sees this? I don't understand how people can't see that the MSM have been trying to set this up (McCain)for the last 8 years.

There is no point voting for McCain

We get amnesty, gitmo closed, carbon taxes and a bunch of BS "Straight Talk". And this is going to be different then amnesty, gitmo closed, carbon taxes and a bunch of BS? Please there is absolutely no reason to vote for McCain.

The Anti 'Man-Made' Global Warming Resource

I completely disagree, but it's pointless to talk about McCain

We all need to quit acting like he's inevitable and rigorously support Romny. If he does win then we can argue about it but right now any talk about McCain is pointless. No one on Newsbusters likes him so lets quit wasting our breath dissing him and start building up Romny.
We'll have plenty of time to argue about whether or not to vote for McCain in the unfortunate circumstance that he wins.

Dee... It's in the bag

Dee...

It's in the bag for McCain...no matter how much we talk up Romney..only shot he may have is tonight with the debate...we had better hope he has fire in his belly enough to make a difference, which he could do easy if he wanted to..

McCain is a RINO...there are plenty of major points he could make tonight, I just hope he does it...with vigor. 

JMHO

I'm waiting for the Fat Lady BT - We can't make it a

self fulfilling prophesy. We at least have to wait for super Tues.
What time and station is the debate on? I have to watch my Lost premiere tonight. I hope I can see both. My husband is out of town and I can't work the recorder.

Dee... It is on CNN at

Dee...

It is on CNN at six mountain time so eight eastern I would guess...

Check it out in your area is best...it is going to be at the Reagan Ranch.

Btw...I try to remain optimistic the majority of the time Dee...I no longer am at this point.

Maybe I will be later...lol.

Absolutely the most

Absolutely the most sensible thing I've read today. It is pretty much mutually agreed that we all have no love lost for McCain. Bitchin' about that among ourselves isn't gonna change that, OR keep that SOB from winning the nomination.

What we can, and should do, is everything in our power to help spread the word on Romney. Not among ourselves, we get it.But among every one we know, whenever and wherever we can.

I think we all agree the very viability of this Nation is at stake in this deal. A democrat will take us down a dark road, and off a steep cliff to Socialism. America will become nothing more than a failed a experiment. America will become a third world country, which will please the left to no end. Sharia will become the law of the land. Spanish will be declared the official language.

Not seeing where John McCain is any better.

We either lay down, or fight like hell!

Thanks for the compliment Gary P - I'm with you

Everyone should get pumped up about Romney and quit crying about McCain - there will plenty of time for that if he does win.

Yeah, we gotta quit messing

Yeah, we gotta quit messing around. I went to bed last night mad, and woke up even more so. The only good news is only about 10-15 percent of the delegates have been won.

Declaring McCain the winner would be like handing over the Sprint Cup, because he had won Daytona. (with 35 races to go) or Pomona (with 23 left) out of 36 and 24 total, respectively.

We got a long way to go before it is over. But, we do have to get in gear, and now!

Is Al Gore in Hawaii?

It's been snowing on Maui and the Big Island the past two days...

http://starbulletin....

Is Al Gore in Hawaii?

It's been snowing on Maui and the Big Island the past two days...

http://starbulletin....

Owl Gore

Owl Gore is in Atlanta at the New Baptist Covenant meeting. (No joke.) He is charging the lefties to eat with him and then watch that stupid movie.Go here 

If you ain't the lead dog, the scenery never changes.-Lewis Grizzard

Del D, It snows here EVERY year...

However sticking at the 7,000 foot level, is very rare. I skied on the big island a few years ago, 4 feet of snow at the top. I'd like to go again however the state will not plow the road any more.

BTW this cold weather is comming your way, Ah January

iranian uranium; iranian uranium, iranian uranium..

Oh joy to the world, 19 more atomic power plants!

I Know That

I'm a former resident- I lived there before the Democrats ruined much of Oahu.

But Kauai is stil Da Bomb!

DUCT TAPE ALERT!!!

THIS IS NOT A DRILL.......

Dick Morris is saying, in his townhall.com column today that Republicans must nominate McCain, because he has a chance at beating Her Royal Clintoness; Romney doesn't.

Why? Get a load of the reason (emphasis mine):

Because of his immigration position — the same one that has so fouled his relationship with the Republican right — McCain has a very good shot at winning a lot of Hispanic votes. While the Clintons have always had a genuine, if now faded, popularity with blacks, they have never been able to boast of a strong Latino base. Partially because of Bill’s pardon of the FALN terrorists, Hillary swept the Puerto Rican vote in New York state in 2000, but she has no special appeal to bring to a genuine battle for their support. Romney’s hard-line immigration position will leave Latinos cold.

But McCain has a chance with them.

So there you have it: the key to winning is to imitate Bill Clinton and suck up to Latinos on immigration.....

:-----> Sound of duct tape being pulled off roll......

Hi mb...  I heard Morris

Hi mb... 

I heard Morris and his pathetic leftist tripe about McCain last night...

I can't stand Dickie anyway...

I was soooo disgusted last night with the primary and all that it just went in one ear and out the other...I didn't even bother to turn the channel.

This country is in big trouble IMO.

Question: How often has

Question: How often has DICK Morris ever been right about anything?

I just wish that pundits like DICK would just be honest and acknowledge that Hillary's new found strength amongst Latinos stems from distrust and dislike for Blacks. This is no big secret and has been an issue for decades. Blacks were the leading minority in this country for many decades, and Blacks have gotten all kinds of entitlement benefits for having that position. Now the Hispanics are outnumbering the Blacks, but lack the political pull and horsepower to get the same bennies the Blacks have gotten. What I'm hearing from my customers in Miami is they're terrified of a Black president as that will take away a lot of the support the Latinos have been trying to build. If Obama were white, the Latino vote would be much different.

If Hillary wins, she stands to lose the support of the Blacks and the support of the Latinos who won't need her anymore once Obama is out of the race (if that happens).

BUT.....she will then name

BUT.....she will then name Bill (the Latino)Richardson as her VEEP to bring them back. And she figures the blacks will always come back...(what are they going to do, vote Republican?)

Yes!!! They voted for

Yes!!! They voted for McCain in Florida 54%. Bush, thanks in large part to his brother who was popular with hispanice, only got 49%.

There's no way Clinton would name Richardson VP. My money is on Bayh or Mark Warner. Richardson has now twice shown himself to be a loser with voters, so he's out.

Can't vote for McCain

I just cannot vote for McCain under any circumstances. If he gets the nomination, I'll vote for Hillary and pray that even though I think putting Bill back in the WH is a disaster waiting to happen, he will keep her sane and hold her back from going too far left. I see zero difference between Hillary and Mac, except that Hillary is a whole lot smarter. Of course, just about anyone running is smarter than McCain. Romney will take most of the Rocky Mountain states, let's hope he tallies up enough delegates to have a say at the convention. 

 One thing is for sure, if McCain gets the nod, it will be a vicious, dirty campaign, McCain only know one way to win, lie, distort and do vicious personal attacks. 

you're right squigg

McCain will keep spreading more lies about Romney, denying his record, and invoking Ronald Reagan even as he holds hands with Ted Kennedy. And the "anybody but Hillary" crowd will forgive and forget as soon as he gets the nod.

TOP TEN SIGNS YOUR TV

TOP TEN SIGNS YOUR TV NETWORK MAY HAVE A LIBERAL BIAS

10.
In Law & Order, Fred Thompson is digitally erased, and replaced by Janeane Garafolo and a talking cat.

9.
Katie Couric signs off CBS News with “Good night, good luck, and good riddance stinkin’ conservatives.”

8
Prison Break suddenly switches from Panama to Gitmo, and Michael converts to Islam

7.
At the end of The View, Elizabeth Hasselbeck is pulled off screen with a giant hook.

6.
LOST holds a fictional primary in which lovable fatto Hurley is the Democrat, and the Republican is the evil black cloud which slams people to death.

5.
Heroes has a new character with the super ability to “look like Obama”

4.
Hugo Chavez stands in for Keith Olbermann while he’s on vacation in Cuba.

3.
ER plot line: pro-life terrorists join forces with the Minutemen, Blackwater, and Halliburton to set off nuke in the abortion ward.

2.
NBC announces fall shows to include John Edwards: Trial Lawyer Hero; Roots 2: From Kunte Kinte to Barack Obama; Marcus Welby, Mass, Democrat.

1.
American Idol 2008 – Barack Obama.

Check out my exclusive edit of BBC News America's interview with Mrs Clinton: It's news to me!

Awesome List, JB

LOL.

The scary thing is, I think ER already did #3 this season.

thanks Mass! I finally gave

thanks Mass! I finally gave up on ER half way through last season, so you may well be correct.

Check out my exclusive edit of BBC News America's interview with Mrs Clinton: It's news to me!

You're welcome, very funny stuff

Yours is a penetratingly sharp wit.

BTW, I meant to add... It could have been no. 2 they did (if you get my meaning), but I get confused... ;-)

I havent' watched ER in

I havent' watched ER in years...

I think they jumped the shark when Romano got killed by the helicopter and they named the new wing that he encowed, the Gay and Lesbian whatever.

Whatever it was, they definitely didn't heed the advice "Always leaving them wanting more!" They ran the thing right into the ground.

Haven't they "jumped the

Haven't they "jumped the shark" about 300 times? Emergency! was much better.

More like tripped over the

More like tripped over the shark.

*****

"People only insist that a debate stop when they are afraid of what might be learned if it continues." - George Will 

There's still a reason to

There's still a reason to watch ER: Maura Tierney. LOVE her.

True -- but it's gotten so

True -- but it's gotten so relentlessly in your face 'political' (and not my 'political') it just started to bore me.

And I've been watching since Ep 1. And I watch 30 Rock. So it has to be really hammering it to dissuade me.

Though the ginger haired nut with the black family was quite amusing.

Check out my exclusive edit of BBC News America's interview with Mrs Clinton: It's news to me!

JB, you are on a roll today.

JB, you are on a roll today. First this and then the "hair today, gone tomorrow" comment. LOL!

hermano -- thanks my

hermano -- thanks my man!

Just trying to cheer up conservatives today.

We need it.

Check out my exclusive edit of BBC News America's interview with Mrs Clinton: It's news to me!

Needed it last night, to be

Needed it last night, to be sure. During my preparations for Hare Kare, I thought for a moment and decided a beer would do me so much better. Still went to bad pissed. To borrow someone's tag line on Behalf of Mitt, "Time to get scrappy with McCain."

Hi Herm... I'm in the

Hi Herm...

I'm in the same mood today...it takes a lot to get me in this kind of mood too...like I posted elsewhere...Romney better get down and dirty tonight...it is his last stand before Tues. and he better use it, he will have opportunities, whether he creates them himself or not...he needs to get a few slam dunks in on that lying weaseling RINO who disgusts me to no end...so he can get free air time with some clips from his fighting back...there are so many subjects that voters care about that Romney can use too.

Judges and the gang of fourteen... illegal immigration...Kennedy/Feingold....energy independence using the cost of gas to get peoples attention and how McCain has voted about drilling, but uses energy independence via the terrorists and how we need to be independent here, but he voted against it....blah blah blah...there is more but people will pay attention.... 

Don't forget the Keating 5.

Don't forget the Keating 5. We need to make sure we represent everything McCain has done for us. Oh, Oh! And Gitmo closing! That will keep us safe. Let's let our legal system pay for this. And when they are "acquitted," we can compensate them for their false imprisonment with Millions in taxpayer dollars!

Thanks, BT. Now I'm in a fowl mood! Go Mitt! Kick some butt tonight!

Can't vote for McCain

I just cannot vote for McCain under any circumstances. If he gets the nomination, I'll vote for Hillary and pray that even though I think putting Bill back in the WH is a disaster waiting to happen, he will keep her sane and hold her back from going too far left. I see zero difference between Hillary and Mac, except that Hillary is a whole lot smarter. Of course, just about anyone running is smarter than McCain.

First there was the phony claim that Romney supports a timetable for withdrawal from Iraq, and now this outrage:

The
day before polls close in Tuesday's critical Florida primary, some
voters in the Miami area received automated phone calls in Spanish
falsely accusing Mitt Romney of supporting an opening of relations with
Cuban President Fidel Castro.

A key member of
Romney's Latin American policy team, Ambassador Roger Noriega, had been
on local radio on Monday morning talking about Romney's anti-Castro
stance. "It was obviously a dirty tactic and strategy to rebut the
efforts we made to let the [Hispanic] community know our position,"
said Al Cardenas, Romney's Florida state chairman.

Asked
if he suspected rival John McCain, Cardenas responded, "Obviously it's
a camp of one of our opponents," later adding "I can't specifically
state with certainty it is John McCain's campaign, all I know is there
are two campaigns making these calls, ours and his and these calls
started immediately after our programming on that issue."

Link

TS... Excellent

TS... Excellent info...there were over at least 10 million robo calls by McCain and Crew against Romney...besides the Castro deal, the withdrawal deal there was some about abortion too...

I remember well when it seemed to happen to the left side of the aisle the msm screams, when McCain claimed it happened to him in SC years ago the msm and McCain screamed at the top of their lungs....

When it happens to Romney....

Zilch.

McCain's lies

One of McCain's spokesman was on Fox and Friends a few days ago and said not only that Romney was against the surge, but that he is pro-abortion and supports gay marriage. Both patently untrue.

TS... Yep...I heard some

TS...

Yep...I heard some of that...

You know the old saying....tell a lie often enough...

Works for the RINO's too...via free air time too.

One example of McCain lying robo calls, Huckabees are worse

Transcript of anti-Romney robo-call:

"I'm calling with an urgent Mitt Romney voter alert." "We care deeply about traditional values and protecting families and need someone who will not [inaudible] in the White House, ending abortion, preserving the sanctity of marriage, [inaudible] the trash on the airwaves and attempts to ban God from every corner of society. These issues are core to our being."
"Mitt Romney seems to think he can fool us."

"He supported abortion on-demand, even wrote a law mandating tax payer funding for abortions." "He says he changed his mind but he still hasn't changed the law." "He told gay organizers in Massachusetts he would be a stronger advocate for [inaudible] rights than even Ted Kennedy, now it's something different."
"Unfortunately, on issue after issue, Mitt Romney has treated special issues voters as fools, thinking they won't catch on." "Sorry Mitt, we know you're aren't trust-worthy on the most important issues and you aren't a conservative."

"Paid for by John McCain 2008"

Romney would actually fight for marriage as he has always done. McCain is the say anything do what i want canidate.

DB... Good work...that is

DB...

Good work...that is the robo call I was referring to...thanks for that.

oh well squigg

At least he'll keep that darn Hillary Clinton out of the White House!

eta: I hope you know this sarcasm.

I think the real winner

I think the real winner this past week is the Latino community.

If McCain sews up the nomination, the proponents of amnesty are assured an ally in the White House regardless of the eventual winner.

McCain can thank the overwhelming support of Cuban voters for his Florida victory (and pro-amnesty Senator Martinez…. and a compliant Governor who needs Latino support in his political life).

The California Democratic establishment is lining up behind Hillary.  Los Angeles Mayor Villaraigosa (a Hillary ally) has more power with California Hispanics than Senator Kennedy.  I’ve heard the pundits suggest that Kennedy will wax poetic about Bobby Kennedy, Cesar Chavez and the Farmworker movement… thus inspiring Latino voters to line up behind Obama.  I don’t think so.  Maxine Waters has endorsed Hillary.  (If wikipedia is to be believed, Maxine’s district is no longer a stronghold of predominantly black voters… more Hispanics.)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California's_35th_congressional_district

Governor Schwarzenegger has endorsed McCain.  Latino voters paved the way for Arnold’s victory in the Recall election.

A few days ago, a poster on this site referenced an article that cited a delay in the CTA (California Teacher’s Association) endorsement of Hillary.  Apparently, there was a pro-Obama revolt that precluded the expected Hillary endorsement.  This surprised me.  The breakdown of the California vote next week might be very interesting.

I am happy to see that over

I am happy to see that over 21,000 Floridians decided to vote on real conservative principals and voted for Fred Thompson like I did. It'll be interesting to see how many more votes Fred got once the early and other mailed in ballots get counted.

Bruzilla... Yes it is! I

Bruzilla...

Yes it is! I have recently joined a group that is asking Fred supporters around the country to continue to cast their vote for Fred even if they have to write him in.

This is not just a bunch of sore losers taking their revenge out on the GOP, it's a real coalition of true conservatives that are voting for principles and what Fred stood for. We are hoping to get the attention of the GOP because we want our damn party back. Most of us see no difference, especially now, between the Dems and the RINO's we have left running.

According to your post, we may be having some effect. 

The Conservative movement is about to be reborn.

Clear Thinker

you may as well vote for ron paul. either way you get obama or hillary.

Are you talking about the primary voting?

Delsa, yes we are talking

Delsa, yes we are talking about the primary.

However, we are waiting to see how the convention shakes out before deciding how to vote in the general.

Your Ron Paul comment was funny! 

The Conservative movement is about to be reborn.

Clear Thinker

Thank you for your feed back. I appreciate it very much. Hopefully you will vote against mccain in a primary and vote for a viable candidate. It is now out of my hands...

I can display humor every now and then. Thanks!

You know, I could

You know, I could understand you guys voting for Thompson in some sort of mis-guided protest in the general. Hell, I might even JOIN you!

But it is beyond insane to write in a vote for Fred in the primary.

The man got no traction before he bailed, and damned sure won't have anything to say at the convention. Why not just get it over with and vote for McCain to start with? Fred is dead, get over it!

Just incredible.

Gary P is right

DO NOT VOTE FOR ANYONE BUT ROMNEY!

NOW IS NOT THE TIME TO PLAY GAMES WITH PROTEST VOTES

When I was a kid, it was to hot to live in Florida!

With all of the over-wintering doh doh's in Florida, were any of you really surprised that McCain won? If the primary occurred as it had in the past, I venture to say, Romney would have won.

What is really peculiar is the slick timing of the silk pony bailout. 

"I think the real winner

"I think the real winner this past week is the Latino community."

Speaking of Latinos, seems as if illegals qualify for the rebate checks Congress is putting together for us.

Speaking of those rebates, isn't it interesting how the Dems have been telling us for years that tax cuts don't stimulate the economy, but now they are telling us that these "rebates"(Tax cuts) are essential for stimulating the economy and ending our economic meltdown, lol.

 

Tom Tancredo was just on

Tom Tancredo was just on Fox talking to Neil Cavuto about this, and the fact that McCain will be all for it. As Neil said, McCain just gave Romney an unexpected gift!

If Romney doesn't hit McCain right between the eyes with this tonight, I'm gonna scream!

Gary P... If Romney

Gary P...

If Romney doesn't hit McCain right between the eyes with this tonight, I'm gonna scream!

Me too!

Thanks for the info. also.

→ Here's a thought

I'd like to see Newt back in the House.

If there's a chance we're going to be overtaken by a Dem President, there's nobody I'd rather see holding a monkey wrench.

LEON'S QUESTION OF THE DAY

I'm confused about the Newsbusters stance on the war.

Most NBs claim they support the troops and want to win in Iraq, yet they continually apologize for/defend/ignore the insane amount of waste in our reconstruction efforts at the hands of shady/greedy/inept contractors.

As far as I can tell, successfully improving Iraq's infrastructure is a major part of our success.  The better the infrastructure, the safer the troops and the closer we are to victory. 

Furthermore, they're wasting our money as taxpayers.  If you don't really care about winning, at least you should care about your wallet.

So why do the Newsbusters sit back while American contractor's fail to do their job, and in doing so, put our troops in increased danger?  Isn't it about time we start holding these derelict firms accountable? 

Let's take a look at a recent example.  Tell me if this is helping or hurting our war effort, helping or hurting our troops.

The Parsons Corporation - grade A Texas thieves

The Special Inspector General in Iraq has found that "8 of 11 rebuilding projects by the Parsons Corporation costing $365 million had to be stopped before completion for disastrous waste and ineptness."

Whoa Whoa Whoa!  Are you kidding me???  If this contractor was operating in America they would have been out of business immediately.  This is truly a disgrace.

Here's what prompted the investigation:

"The investigation was prompted by the company's $75 million construction of the Baghdad Police College, which ended up with feces and urine pouring from ceilings in student barracks, floors heaving off the ground, and water dripping profusely in a room dubbed "the rain forest."

Huh?  So while we're trying to get the Iraqi Army and police force to stand on their own so our troops can come home, our contractors are making this impossible.  Literally impeding our progress.

As far as I'm concerned these guys are doing just as much damage as our enemies in Iraq.  They are fighting against America, putting our troops in increased danger, wasting taxpayers money, and delaying our success in the war.

When will Americans stand up and call for an end to this criminal waste? 

LINK

Hey Leon... You might

Hey Leon...

You might want to put this all on a forum thread.

Just a thought.

Great idea BT. I'm

Great idea BT.

I'm swamped at work these days so I don't think I could manage a forum topic right now, but I will do it when I have some more time.

It's an issue that really needs to be addressed in a serious manner.  It's a disgrace.

If we really want to support the troops and win in Iraq, we need some accountability from our contractors. 

Gee Leon

Are you this outraged at regular government waste?  Or is it just in Iraq that it gets under your liberal skin?

You are so bloody predictable. 

David Gregory, do you know which damn network you lie for? ~ Uncle Jimbo, @Blackfive

 

Leon:

Most NBs claim they support the troops and want to win in Iraq, yet they continually apologize for/defend/ignore the insane amount of waste in our reconstruction efforts at the hands of shady/greedy/inept contractors.

As someone who has administered a few of such defense related contracts, I gotta tell you the company that is providing them rarely gets more than 10% profits off them. 

For instance, a couple years ago when I was in Iraq, there was a question regarding the Halliburton/KBR contracting for the messhalls that I was eating in.  Someone complaind that a messhall in Iraq was costing the government an order of magnitude more than lets say, the Virginia Hall Dining Facility on Fort Huachuca AZ.

What the people making the complaint did not realize was that the costs involved in supplying, equipping, manning, and cleaning those messhalls were ALSO an order of magnitude more in theater than in the states.  These messhalls were also a bit more wasteful than those in the states (The pastry tables were MAGNIFICENT and not everything on them was consumed) but they were also the first line in the war on Morale for the soldier.  I have never eaten better in my life than at a KBR Messhall in Iraq.

That is simply the experience I have with the messhalls.  I had like experiance with other types of contractors over there, from system support contractors to Personal Security Detachements and none of them would earn the epithet of Greedy or inept.

I have nothing but priase for those contractors who sat in the bomb proof shelters with me as we waited for the "all Clear" following a rocket attack.

The Special Inspector General in Iraq has found that "8 of 11 rebuilding projects by the Parsons Corporation costing $365 million had to be stopped before completion for disastrous waste and ineptness."

Good example.  But you also realize that at the same time this was coming to light, it has come to light that the company that worked on the I-35 Bridge over the Mississippi River in Minnesota (Which Collapsed this spring) ALSO was found to be inept and poorly constructed. 

Likewise several civilian agencies have been monitoring projects that have similarly been proven to be vast failures recently (Road stabilization in California, Fire protection in last summers Claifornia Blazes etc.

So it is not simply the war that has this fault.

Whoa Whoa Whoa!  Are you kidding me???  If this contractor was operating in America they would have been out of business immediately.  This is truly a disgrace.

Obviously not - see above.

BD

It is worth any amount to feed our troups and the people who support them. Most important thing you said is "messhall and WAR ZONE" End of story

BD, I respect your

BD,

I respect your service but you've time and time again proven yourself to be nothing but an apologist for all things administration.  It's disheartening considering how informed you are.

1)  The I-35 Bridge collapsed from a simple design flaw, not disasterous waste and ineptness.  Furthermore, the I-35 Bridge operated effectively for 43 years.  The Police building described in my link couldn't even stand a fully operating unit for ONE DAY.  It was leaking feces.  Human waste.  And we expect to train Iraqi police in facilities like this

2)  Contractors in America are held accountable for their actions.  This is why they have massive insurance policies that are priced with regard to their loss history.  If you suffer a catastrophic loss, not only will the loss be indemnified, but your insurance premiums will rise, and you will pay for your errors.  Furthermore, the negative press you suffer from a catastrophic loss will render you incapable of receiving bids in the future.  Nobody in America is going to hire you if they've heard of your failures.  This is not the case in Iraq.  These contractors fail and fail and fail and are never held accountable.  They simply continue to do terrible work, bill the American tax payers, screw over our troops, and impede our chances for success in Iraq.

3)  Your examples are isolated events in America for which the contractors are held accountable.  Shoddy work in Iraq is the norm and nobody ever has to pay for it.  It's truly disgraceful and an amazing disservice to our troops.

4)  Even if American contractors were doing the same level of work in America, which they aren't, I fail to see how that has any impact on our analysis of what's going on in Iraq.  The reconstruction effort is essential to our victory.  If we can't effectively rebuild Iraq, provide adequate training facilities, etc. we WILL NOT win.  That's the reality of the situation. 

Sorry BD, but this defense of disgraceful ineptitude that has directly crippled our war effort is depressing.  I thought you really wanted to win.  Sadly that is not the case.

 

1)  The I-35 Bridge

1)  The I-35 Bridge collapsed from a simple design flaw, not disasterous waste and ineptness.  Furthermore, the I-35 Bridge operated effectively for 43 years.  The Police building described in my link couldn't even stand a fully operating unit for ONE DAY.  It was leaking feces.  Human waste.  And we expect to train Iraqi police in facilities like this

Ineptness does not equal design flaws? 

I am surprised that you find fault in the contracting world which I assure you is there, but donot notice that it is all around you on a daily basis.  Wanna find total ineptness?  Visit the Department of Education in DC and wander from spacious room to spacious room and ask what each individual does on a daily basis.  Ineptness and disasterous waste only BEGINS to describe it.

Wanna see other gross examples of Ineptness and Waste?  Visit the DOE, DOT, DOJ, DOHS, and the CIA.

Why you do not RAIL against them but seem to take on a hand full of defense contractors out of the many who perform yeomans work is beyond me.

Shoddy work in Iraq is the norm

I challenge you to prove this statement as it does not match with my experience.  Please use statistics gathered by a non-partisan agency.

I thought you really wanted to win.

I will not dignify this with an answer.

BD, 1)  I do, but right

BD,

1)  I do, but right now I'm addressing the contractor's in Iraq.  Furthermore, I fail to see what the waste in those departments has to do with the waste in Iraq.  Their waste somehow excuses the criminal contractors in Iraq?  How? 

2)  Prove it?  The Pentagon is investigating over 80 incidences of Contractor Fraud, waste and abuse.  Is that bi-partisan enough for you?  As of early january, 26 had been referred to the Justice Department. 

How about the Defense Contract Audit Agency?  Are they legit enough for you?  Well, as of March of 2007 they found $4.9 BILLION in overpricing and waste in Iraq.  US auditors have found an additional $5.1 BILLION in expenses charged with ZERO documentation. 

Of Projects analyzed by the Special Inspector General for Iraq Reconstruction, 20% have shown MAJOR PROBLEMS.  1 out of 5 projects!  That is insane!

So keep towing that line while corrupt contractors gouge the American people and put our soldiers in danger.  Directly working AGAINST the war effort. 

3)  I stand by my statement.  I really thought you wanted to win but your continual apologism for failure for the sole purpose to towing the administrations line shows you aren't that serious about victory.  If you were you'd be demanding accountability from contractors instead of excusing them

1 & 2)  What is the

1 & 2)  What is the percentage of waste and ineptness of defense contractors in Iraq as compared to other governmental agencies.  THAT IS THE QUESTION.

1&2)  What is the percentage of waste and ineptness in defense contractors as compared to other conflicts the US has fought in.  I will stipulate to the fact that wartime spending is inherently wasteful. 

By example during the first Persian Gulf conflict 1/3 of the equipment I was issued was not needed or wanted, including a pair of arctic boots that somehow didnot find their way into my already overloaded dufflebags.

During that conflict the contractors rebuilding the oil fields, airfields, roads etc destroyed by Saddam were probably EQUALLY wasteful, and do not get me started on the 10% overage contracts of WWII.

sole purpose to towing the administrations line shows you aren't that serious about victory.

Please prove to me that poor sanitation in a single building in Bagdhad equates to defeat.  Is building capability of a single police barracks now the strategic center of gravity for the conflict?

BD< 1)  Who cares? 

BD<

1)  Who cares?  What does this have to do with the Iraq Reconstruction effort?  How does waste in other departments excuse waste by our contractors in Iraq?

2)  We aren't talking about other conflicts we're talking about Iraq now.  Who cares what's happened before?  Why would previous garbage work somehow excuse current garbage work? 

3)  One single building doesn't equal defeat, but it sure makes it hard for us to train the police for whom that building was constructed.  Furthermore, it's not just one building, it's one out of every 5 projects.  That's a problem.

4)  Again, why wouldn't you demand higher expectations from these guys.  They're gouging us because they can.  It's sick and by allowing it to continue, we are hurting our war effort.

1)  Who cares?  What does

1)  Who cares?  What does this have to do with the Iraq Reconstruction effort?  How does waste in other departments excuse waste by our contractors in Iraq?

If we are not allowed to discuss the role of Contracting and actual governmental fraud, waste,  and abuse in comparison, why are we discussing contractor wastage in Iraq to begin with.  It is paltry in comparison.

2)  We aren't talking about other conflicts we're talking about Iraq now. 

I see, so the fact that I could make a case for the COR support to the war in Iraq being a role model for governmental responsiblity within our national history is not important? 

3)  One single building doesn't equal defeat, but it sure makes it hard for us to train the police for whom that building was constructed.  Furthermore, it's not just one building, it's one out of every 5 projects.  That's a problem.

You were the one who stated that it would cause us to fail, but you cannot cite how or why.

4)  Again, why wouldn't you demand higher expectations from these guys.  They're gouging us because they can.  It's sick and by allowing it to continue, we are hurting our war effort.

I do demand the best.  And historically we are receiving it.

Would you like me to begin discussing how shiploads of munitions and other supporting items were dumped by the Merchant marine in the Jungles of the Pacific in WWII to allow the ships to return empty?

Would you like me to discuss other fraud waste and abuse that were NEVER prosecuted in in past conflicts i comparison to the amount of cases currently being prosecuted?

Better yet, would you like to now discuss the ultimate programs for Fraud Waste and Abuse and absolute destruction of the American family, the so called "Great Society Programs" of Lyndon Baines Johnson?

Or would you like to simply rail against Iraq in an obsequious manner?

I think what you are not

I think what you are not comprehendnig, Alan, is that government ineptitude and waste is rampant at ALL LEVELS, not just Iraq. People keep pointing this out to you, but since this does not fit into your BDS template, you do not want to hear it. Cherry-picking Iraq as an example is rather partisan of you. If we accounted for every dollar wasted in our government, I am sure it would dwarf Iraq. As you clearly and repeatedly pointed out, auditors are uncovering the problems, and hopefully they will be rectified. I am sure, once that happens, you will find a different pile of poo to fling.

We understand, Alan. Everything in Iraq is "fatal", as you put it earlier. I am not apologizing for the waste and fraud in Iraq. I am merely pointing out your "small picture" mentality.

Rog, I agree with you. 

Rog,

I agree with you.  Waste is rampant.  However, much of the beaurocratic waste in DC does not directly impact the safety of our troops.

Waste by American contractor's does.  It directly hampers our war effort.

I'm not cherry-picking anything.  I'm talking about the war so I'm talking about Iraq contractors.

This is not a BDS issue, it's a winning the war issue.  Successful reconstruction is essential to our victory.  Why would we not demand quality work from our contractors?  Why do you excuse their disgraceful work?

It makes no sense to me.  The everybody else is doing it to argument is irrelevant to winning the Iraq war. 

The fact that you call it small picture shows what we've all already known.  You're more interested in apologizing for the Administration's failures than winning the war.  It's pathetic.

*Yawn* Did I ever apologize

*Yawn*

Did I ever apologize for the contractors? Please point that out.
Like it or not, you ARE thinking small picture. The contractors in Iraq taking advantage of the government's inability to run a tight ship is a MICROCOSM of the government itself.
You are cherry-picking your facts and outrage, whether you like to admit it or not. The bridge collapse was the result of government ineptitude, since it was considered "structurally-deficient" back in 1990, yet nothing was done about it, aside from MORE weight and stress being put on the bridge (from contruction material) the day it collapsed.
A major artery to the city collapses, killing 13, wounding another 100 (I'd say the impact on dead CIVILIANS is worse than soldiers), and will cost at least $200 million to replace (on top of the $170 already spent on remodeling it before it collasped). Minnesota is spending another $500,000 on legal counsel.
Both your example and my example are MICROCOSMS of our inept government. Looking for some sort of fight, or some sort of act of contritition from the folks here at Newsbusters contradicts your protestations, Alan.

I eagerly await your well-thought-out solutions to this problem... Please include a link to the website you take it from, ok?

Leon..you're painting with too broad a brush

You're suffering from "One thing is wrong so everything is a Piece of Sh..t syndrome" 

You can't draw grandiose conclusions on Every Sub-contractor in Iraq based upon a single incident, or even several incidents....unless you're one of those Schulumberger haters and don't want the contractors that Built Iraq's Oil Industry to have anything to do with re-building it....even though they have the blueprints.

You'd probably Demand that Toyota get the Electrical Grid rebuild Contract.  But Toyota and others DON"T want to work in the Wild, Wild, West, with gun toting Arabs running around shooting up your workers.  1,000 Contractors have lost their lives in Iraq...it isn't low hanging fruit to win an Iraq Contract.  

If Obama stumbles in a speech and doesn't enunciate his words distinctly you'd probably compare him to Bush.

Stimulis: Congress and the president are now agreed on remedies that will not work, expending money they do not have, to fix a problem that may not exist.  Steve Chapman 

JayTee, Foreign

JayTee,

Foreign contractors haven't stayed out of Iraq b/c they're afraid.

They stayed out b/c we wouldn't let them bid on the jobs.

It was one of the most fatal flaws of our Iraq War strategy. 

If we had allowed foreign contractors to bid on jobs we would have had a lot more international support for the war.

And we would have probably had a more efficient, more cost effective reconstruction effort.

Nice Try, Leon

But your "link" is to a leftist website that then quotes the NY Times and WaPo to try and make its point, as well as then linking to the "Center for Public Integrity", whose funders include such leftist looney tunes as Babs Streisand and Teresa "Mama T" Kerry.

You know they're biased when they fail to mention that Bill Clinton also gave no-bid work to firms like Halliburton/KBR. They also totally ignore the fact that Democrat Lyndon Johnson was in bed with them for decades.

Seriously?

Leon - "Whoa Whoa Whoa! Are you kidding me??? If this contractor was operating in America they would have been out of business immediately. This is truly a disgrace."

Ah... Boston's "Big Dig" ring a bell?

Gary P and Leon

You are naturally correct Gary. Everyone need to get into high gear and realize this is NOT over yet. Leon if some contractor screws up we should go after the $ they received and make them correct what ever the defects. Government waste? How unusual...

→ Rudy and McAnus on TV

I could do without this spectacle unfolding before my eyes.

Rudy just gave McCain his vow of "Whither goest thou, go I"

McCain is saying something real '70's like "Today I marry my friend"

♣ a seal

Guliani is kissing McCains butt at the moment.

As I sit here in disgust I can only wonder how I could have been so wrong about Guliani.  I once had a much different opinion of him, but as I listen to him tonight I want to puke.

→ CT

Was that not the most gratuitous chunk of Political soft porn you've ever heard?

♣ a seal

Cool... I posted

Cool...

I posted somewhere else about the mutual admiration love-fest...like I said..barf bag time. 

Glad that is out of the way...now on to the debate. 

→ BigTimer

That "Strong right hand" was a nice touch, don't you think.

I was waiting to hear something really cheesy like "You were taken from my side that you would walk beside me"

Rudy should have dressed for the occasion.

Mark Mckinnon and Tucker Carlson lovefest on MSNBC

I watched it on MSNBC just so I could smell how bad it really is.  There we had Mark McKinnon, McCains campagin flunky, telling sweet Tucker how everything would be okay and the Republican Party would now get behind McCain.  Makes me wonder what these people smoke.

Hi CT... That's where I

Hi CT...

That's where I have it at the moment...did I hear McKinnon say that they would fix everything up with Rush? (I'm paraphrasing here)....I started laughing at the thought.

→ BigTimer

Was that the Spanish version of "Feelings" I heard in the background?

♣ a seal

Cool... LMAO...good

Cool...

LMAO...good zinger there!

deleted double post

delete

Juan McCain and Rudy Guliani, made for each other.

Carbon Credits Smoke'em if you got'em!

→ CT

Glen Beck announced today McCain was changing his name to Juan.

♣ a seal

I heard

Carbon Credits Smoke'em if you got'em!

Open threads are getting too big

Is there some way of getting the open threads down to a more manageable size?  They seem to be getting longer every day. 

When you put the clowns in charge, don't be surprised when a circus breaks out.

Try VIEWING OPTIONS threaded list compressed at the top

Try and using the Compressed Thread option......300 comments is just the beginning of the Season.....plus it's Cold and everyone is playing indoors.

Jay Tee, you got part of it right but

not all of us are included in your statement: "plus it's Cold and everyone is playing indoors.", I'm inside because it's dark and the mosquitoes' are out in droves. Damn this Florida weather being 70 degrees this time of year.

 

"Too bad Ignorance isn't painful..."

I'm making a new vow.

I will not support or vote for any candidate in any party that I feel I have to excuse, apologize for or otherwise explain.  I know there is no perfect candidate, but we can do a lot better than what the Republican Party has demonstrated for some time now.  Currently there is a complete lack of direction due to a complete lack of leadership at all levels.

Well, it's all over. Brit's

Well, it's all over. Brit's panel just called it for McCain! And of course, Rush Limbaugh is the loser!

One thing was said that I totally agree on. The debate between Obama and Hillary tomorrow will be intense. Huckabee and Ron Paul will just stink up the stage tonight. (OK, I'm paraphrasing)

For the good of the debate, and the party, Huckabee and especially Ron Paul need to go home! Neither has a chance of winning, but will take up valuable time from the real front runners. Of course, that works in McCain's favor, because it will give Romney less face time.

You have to know John sponsored, and got McCain-Feingold passed just praying for this day to come. Evil bastard!

Dems Have 1 Less Campaign Issue

One less issue for the Dems-a Clinton-appointed Federal Judge had this to say today:

New Orleans (AP) -- A federal judge threw out a key class-action lawsuit Wednesday against the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers over flooding from a levee breach after Hurricane Katrina.

U.S. District Judge Stanwood Duval ruled that the Corps should be held immune over the failure of a wall on the 17th Street Canal that caused much of the flooding of New Orleans in August 2005.

The suit led to 350,000 separate claims by businesses, government entities and residents, totaling billions of dollars in damages against the agency.

The fate of many of those claims was pinned to that lawsuit and a similar one filed over flooding from a navigation channel in St. Bernard Parish. It was unclear how many claims could still move forward.