For general discussion and debate. Possible talking point: Peggy Noonan claims that George W. Bush destroyed the Republican Party:
George W. Bush destroyed the Republican Party, by which I mean he sundered it, broke its constituent pieces apart and set them against each other. He did this on spending, the size of government, war, the ability to prosecute war, immigration and other issues.
At the same time, she believes Bill Clinton is destroying the Democrat Party:
But the Clintons are tearing the party apart. It will not be the same after this. It will not be the same after its most famous leader, and probable ultimate victor, treated a proud and accomplished black man who is a U.S. senator as if he were nothing, a mere impediment to their plans. And to do it in a way that signals, to his supporters, How dare you have the temerity, the ingratitude, after all we've done for you?
Is she right on either or both counts?
Comments Policy
Yay!
January 25, 2008 - 10:29 ET by candanceFirst post!
That said, Noonan is half right in her remarks about Bush. We're divided not so much on the war, but on spending, immigration, and social issues.
welcome These are the
January 25, 2008 - 10:48 ET by USA4freedomwelcome
These are the boys of Pointe du Hoc. Ronald Reagan- 40th Anniversary of D-Day
Welcome, candance
January 25, 2008 - 12:01 ET by RJ(kidding)
Peggy Noonan has written about something that a number of us have been saying for awhile. Actually, it was Rove who sundered the party, with his "get Bush elected, re-elected, and damn the cost to the Party." Thinking back on it, Bush was just as much poll-driven (except for the war, where he was overly stubborn, and the tax cuts) as Clinton. Thus, we had out of control spending and a veto pen that remained virgin until last year.
Of course, both Clintons have followed the same ego-centric finger in the wind, damn-the-Party philosophy along with "triangulation", which has brought about the fracturing of the Democrat constituency.
United???
January 25, 2008 - 12:33 ET by wfanWhen ever, in the history of this republic, has either party been united on every issue?? I like the fact that within our party (Repubs) we have diverse opinions and those people have their reasons for being Republican. Even Reagan said if you agree with me 70 percent of the time, you're my friend.
And what about the dems. They are all the same. They all will do the same thing. You could have a ballot that looked like this in the fall:
McCain (R)
Horse (D)
And the Horse would still get 30 percent of the vote.
The question would then become...
January 25, 2008 - 13:14 ET by sarcasmoWhich candidate is smarter? (Sorry, but the video made it too-good to resist! Like I said a year ago, "it's the YouTube election!")
JMR
Rally online with fans of Dr. Ron Paul. (All purpose anti-slander-link, sadly-needed these days...)
Leon's Bright Idea of the Day
January 25, 2008 - 10:39 ET by LeonWant to avert a recession? Want to stimulate the market place?
Forget the tax rebate. I have a better solution.
Reparations. Pay them out.
What happened when Katrina survivors were given debit cards with $2,000 on them? Did they buy food? Save it for future expenses?
Nope. Not even close.
They bought commodities. Sneakers, clothes, electronics, etc. etc.
If I was Bush that's what I'd do. Save my disasterous legacy and save the economy in one fell swoop.
Why, Leon, you
January 25, 2008 - 10:46 ET by motherbeltWhy, Leon, you racist!!!
ROFL!!
Nah not racist at all.
January 25, 2008 - 10:49 ET by LeonNah not racist at all. Just an honest assessment of the situation.
I genuinely think it's a great idea in theory, although I have no idea how you'd figure out who deserved reparations and who didn't.
It would tough, I imagine, for many people to prove that their ancestors were slaves. There'd be a lot of assumption going on.
But if you could figure out the logisitics, it would be great for the economy.
LOL....Of course it's
January 25, 2008 - 11:00 ET by motherbeltLOL....Of course it's racist!
I doesn't have to do with the reparations part of what you said. But you just said that if you give a bunch of black people money, they won't spend it on food etc, they will go out and buy sneakers and electronics!!
If you don't think it's racist, just play WIARHSI?
MB, Perhaps but it's an
January 25, 2008 - 11:01 ET by LeonMB,
Perhaps but it's an economic fact that black people as a group buy domestic goods.
Statistics back this up.
Add this fact to the real world example of Katrina, and I think I have a solid strategy.
You're starting to sound like a liberal mother.
Come on, Leon, learn to
January 25, 2008 - 11:24 ET by motherbeltCome on, Leon, learn to appreciate sarcasm when you hear it. There's no way I'm a liberal..I'm giving you the liberal reaction to your suggestion. Even if a conservatvie had facts to back up that suggestion...sales figures etc. he would be considered a rank racist for saying it.
I'm going to assume you are using sarcasm too. If not, why don't you trot on over to one of the liberal websites and try floating that balloon over there? Oh, and try saying "It's a fact" that black people spend their money on sneakers and electronics. Let us know how it works out.
PS what do you consider "domestic goods"?
Tell you what, Leon,
January 25, 2008 - 12:35 ET by R D HelmIf you can produce one person who has ever been held as a slave in this country, then I will go along with the reparations movement. In fact, I will even go one better and become the poster-boy for the whole darn thing.
BTW-Every person posting comments on this site, in fact, every person you have ever seen in this country, has ancestors who, somewhere along the way, were held in some form of slavery or other.
So cough it up, 'cause I want my money! Lol.
None are so hopelessly enslaved as those who falsely believe they are free. -J.W. von Goethe
RD, Again, I'm not
January 25, 2008 - 12:38 ET by LeonRD,
Again, I'm not claiming that the Reparations are warranted, I'm simply theorizing that they'd be a great way to stimulate our economy.
Their validity is irrelevant to my plan. They're simply a vehicle to get money into the hands of people that will spend it heavily on domestic goods.
Then do not call them
January 25, 2008 - 12:42 ET by BDThen do not call them reparartions. Simply call them what they are - Dumping good money after bad....
BD, But if you call them
January 25, 2008 - 13:50 ET by LeonBD,
But if you call them reparations you would kill 2 birds with one stone.
I know, Leon.
January 25, 2008 - 12:43 ET by R D HelmJust felt like rattling your cage a little.
After all, it is Friday. :-)
None are so hopelessly enslaved as those who falsely believe they are free. -J.W. von Goethe
Fair enough RD, I can
January 25, 2008 - 13:51 ET by LeonFair enough RD,
I can live with the cage rattling.
Just curious
January 25, 2008 - 11:02 ET by KC MulvilleLeon!
Would you give Obama a share of the reparations? After all, his father was from Kenya, and his mother was white.
KC, Like I said,
January 25, 2008 - 11:05 ET by LeonKC,
Like I said, logistically it's a nightmare. But I think it's an interesting way to stimulate domestic spending.
In my mind, he would not be eligible for reparations.
Leon...
January 25, 2008 - 12:29 ET by Airforce_5_OCan I only pay half the amount of everybody else since I had relitives fighting on both sides of the civil war??????
I really want to do my part you know.
What really would be
January 25, 2008 - 11:31 ET by MidAmericaWhat really would be confusing is that some families have switched color through inter-racial mixing. That is, some present day white folks are descended from slaves and some black folks are descended from slave-owners.
Someone once said that
January 25, 2008 - 11:54 ET by motherbeltSomeone once said that reparations would be fine, as long as that marked the debt "Paid in Full." No more affirmative action, no more college admissions quotas or extra points added for being black, no more NAACP etc.
How many black leaders do you think would accept that?
Motherbelt
January 25, 2008 - 12:31 ET by iveseenitallGreat catch, Motherbelt! Sneakers? Leon's "private" racism peeks its ugly head out. His masters at the DNC won't like that.
As I've often said, some of the worst "racists", "homophobes", "sexists" are so-called "liberals" in their private moments. Hypocrites!
NEVER,NEVER trust a "liberal"
Just to be precise...
January 25, 2008 - 12:59 ET by SyriusDear Motherbelt,
For some reason, you twisted Leon's statement...
"What happened when Katrina survivors were given debit cards with $2,000
on them? Did they buy food? Save it for future expenses?"
...into a racist remark by substituting 'black people' for 'Katrina survivors'..."I doesn't have to do with the reparations part of what you said. But
you just said that if you give a bunch of black people money, they
won't spend it on food etc, they will go out and buy sneakers and
electronics!!"
Who is the racist?!?
Syrius
"...the dire consequences to society when people begin to believe that by
renaming someone to erase their humanity opens the door to the
devaluation of everyone's life..."-dscott
Dear Syrius
January 25, 2008 - 14:41 ET by motherbeltI did not equate "Katrina survivors" to "black people."
Leon said after Katrina, the people who got money went out and bought sneakers and electronics. He then suggested paying out "reparations" as a way to boost the economy, because those people who got the money would do the same thing.
What race are the people who would get "reparations" and have money to spend?
Now, who made the racist statement?
motherbelt
January 25, 2008 - 14:49 ET by candanceDon't listen to Syrius. Only yesterday he tried to educate me on Christianity by saying salvation through the cross was only believed in some churches.
Actually, it varies amongst different faiths...
January 25, 2008 - 15:00 ET by Syrius...and you couldn't answer the question.And you call yourself a Christian? You take my breath away with your hatred of me.
Syrius
"...the dire consequences to society when people begin to believe that by
renaming someone to erase their humanity opens the door to the
devaluation of everyone's life..."-dscott
Okay Syrius
January 25, 2008 - 15:06 ET by candanceYou want an answer okay I'll give you one. But seriously it's like asking someone what 2 + 2 is and saying it equals 5 if they don't answer the way you like.
It's a very simple formula:
sin = death
Christ died as my substitute = atonement
I accept his substitution and thank Him for it = salvation
Now you please show me your list of Christian churches that refute it.
Here's a hint to help you get started: Islam doesn't count.
Salvation according to your faith...
January 25, 2008 - 15:23 ET by Syrius...is fine which I believe you are entitled to believe. My point was
that salvation comes in many forms which you may or may not believe.
Your belief and salvation will be between you and your God. The problem
exists when you start to judge others. If you'd like a little refresher
on other faiths' salvation beliefs...
http://en.wikipedia....
Thanks for your response.
Syrius
"...the dire consequences to society when people begin to believe that by
renaming someone to erase their humanity opens the door to the
devaluation of everyone's life..."-dscott
If you'd like a refresher on other faiths' salvation beliefs...
January 25, 2008 - 15:29 ET by vrwc13...problem is they all will tell you the same thing...only one of them can be right!
v
All roads lead to heaven...not
"Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life; no man cometh to the Father but by me." John 14:6.
this is hilarious
January 25, 2008 - 15:37 ET by candanceLet me give you a refresher on yesterday.
You said: The Gospels describe the miraculous birth, life, ministry, crucifixion, and resurrection of Jesus Christ.
I said: after your astute recollection of the gospel of Christ, you ask a Christian how they believe salvation is obtained.
You said: You do know the definition of salvation varies according to different doctrines?
Yet within that Wiki not one single passage about a Christian church refutes my point.
Syrius' wiki link is in
January 26, 2008 - 01:31 ET by tracheostomySyrius' wiki link is in itself a red herring meant to make the issue look more complicated than it already is. Soteriology can be easily broken down into three distinct camps.
(a.) Pelagianism
(b.) Semi-Pelagianism (a.k.a. "synergism") <--- This is currently the most popular.
(c.) Monergism
As stated above, only one can be right. The confusion is further erased by removing all merits of man and giving all credit (100% of it) to God alone.
Class dismissed. Except you Syrius, you're staying after to clean erasers.
EDIT: Bumped for P-Tech, who's gonna stand in the corner.
-PJ
"Trake: Your lofty convictions are another blemish on the rump of congregational sectarianism." -Tumbler 5/15/07
d
January 25, 2008 - 16:10 ET by motherbeltdelete double
Your words, my friend, your words.
January 25, 2008 - 15:09 ET by SyriusMB,
Please reread your words. I cannot see where Leon said
"black people". I believe it would have been more appropriate if you
were to use "disenfranchised" instead of 'black' to describe those on
the lower economic scale which could include blacks, whites, hispanics,
etc. The best word would have been to say "lower income Americans" or
just "Katrina survivors", but you did infer your own racist thinking by
saying 'black people'.
Syrius
"...the dire consequences to society when people begin to believe that by
renaming someone to erase their humanity opens the door to the
devaluation of everyone's life..."-dscott
I didn't say
January 25, 2008 - 16:22 ET by motherbeltI didn't say "disenfranchised" people because I wasnt' talking about those on the lower economic scale.
Just because Leon mentioned Katrina survivors in the same post doesn't mean that's what I was responding to.
I'll say this again, so listen up:
I called Leon racist for saying that paying reparations would put money into the economy, because after Katrina, (he said) the survivors bought clothes, sneakers, and electronics with the money; and implied that reparations money would be used in the same way.
Now, regardless of who the people were that bought the stuff after Katrina, did Leon not imply that those receiving reparations would do the same? Yes he did. And who would get the reparations? The poor and disenfranchised? No. Black people. And who would spend the reparations money on sneakers, clothes and elctronics? Those black people.
So the answer to your question "who is the racist?" is "Leon."
"Of course it's racist"...
January 25, 2008 - 16:47 ET by SyriusMB,
Repeating over and over again... what you think and what you wrote shows latent racism which was exposed in your comment.
" LOL....Of course it's
January 25, 2008 - 10:00 ET by motherbelt
LOL....Of course it's racist!
I(t) doesn't have to do with the reparations part of what you said.(which means forgiving him & not using it against him.) But
you just said(quoting Leon...) that if you give a bunch of black people money, they
won't spend it on food etc, they will go out and buy sneakers and
electronics!!"
If you don't think it's racist, just play WIARHSI?"...
You substituted "black people" for "Katrina survivors", period. Why did you substitute those words? It's a reasonable question.
Syrius
"...the dire consequences to society when people begin to believe that by
renaming someone to erase their humanity opens the door to the
devaluation of everyone's life..."-dscott
You're a little late with
January 25, 2008 - 16:50 ET by tracheostomyYou're a little late with the calling out on mental substitutions. Motherbelt already did it to Leon first.
Please try to keep up.
-PJ
"Trake: Your lofty convictions are another blemish on the rump of congregational sectarianism." -Tumbler 5/15/07
Get a grip, Syrius
January 25, 2008 - 21:27 ET by motherbeltThe "black people" I was referring to were the ones who would get Leon's proposed reparations money.
The reference to "it's not about the reparations" meant that I wasn't arguing with him over whether reparations (as a policy) were a good idea.
I hope that's clear now. I haven't repeated anything, but I will if necessary.
haha, motherbelt, I've avoided getting tangled up with Syrius
January 25, 2008 - 21:38 ET by RJfor a couple of weeks. But tonight, against my better judgment, I tried to have an intelligent conversation with him. Wow. BIG mistake. I feel like I've been in an episode of Twilight Zone.
Not only that, mb
January 25, 2008 - 16:56 ET by RJbut if Syrius would read the thread, he'd see that leon accepted without argument your contention that he was talking about blacks.
Excuse me but I made a clear point.
January 25, 2008 - 17:16 ET by SyriusTo all,
As you gather round to come in defense of a racist,
whether he knows it or not, when should I consider you guilty by
association? Clearly, I proved my point in showing the
differences in each quote. I'll leave it at that...
Syrius
"...the dire consequences to society when people begin to believe that by
renaming someone to erase their humanity opens the door to the
devaluation of everyone's life..."-dscott
Thus demonstrating
January 25, 2008 - 19:20 ET by RJwhy I avoid attempting to argue with Syrius. Instead of specifically answering my point, he threw out yet another vague "I'm right and you're wrong" statement.
Sorry I wasn't able to respond quickly enough...
January 25, 2008 - 19:54 ET by SyriusRJ,
This was not about Leon, but Motherbelt and his latent racism, period. By replacing "Katrina survivors" with "black people"
exposed or brought to light his unconcious or dormant form of racism.
Your silence would be better than your defense of him. I'm not asking
for your support. His words are for all to see. Now I'm done...
Syrius
"...the dire consequences to society when people begin to believe that by
renaming someone to erase their humanity opens the door to the
devaluation of everyone's life..."-dscott
Of course it's about leon
January 25, 2008 - 20:20 ET by RJFirst, common sense should tell you that "motherbelt" is a "she"
Leon is as much a part of the discussion as Motherbelt, because his reaction proves her assumption to be correct. Leon did not disagree when she correctly judged that he was speaking of blacks. The conversation continued, because they both understood they were talking about the same thing.
But here's the kicker: logically, if you're going to claim Motherbelt is racist for substituting "black people" for "Katrina survivors", then you have to charge leon with the same thing. That's because when he meant "black people", he said "Katrina survivors."
I don't buy your argument, but if it were true, it would be true of both of them.
Give it up, RJ, I'm going
January 25, 2008 - 21:40 ET by motherbeltGive it up, RJ, I'm going to. Apparently these explanations are beyond Syrius's reading comprehension skills.
Reminds me of a story I heard about a little girl who asks her Dad how Santa is going to get into their house, since they don't have a chimney. The father figures she's old enough to hear the truth. He gives a long explanation of how Santa is a story, the spirit of Christmas, the meaning of gifts etc, thinks he's got it covered. Says "do you understand?" The little girls says, "Yes, but how is he going to get into the house????"
That's Syrius.
hahaha! That's a PERFECT description, mb
January 25, 2008 - 21:42 ET by RJ...that absolutely nails his "thinking" capacity.
Syrius, equating Katrina
January 26, 2008 - 00:18 ET by JasonCSyrius, equating Katrina Survivors with Black People may be racist; however, the analogy that Leon advanced compared the spending behavior of Katrina Survivors with the potential spending habits of those who would receive reparations. Potential beneficiaries of reparations would be, like it or not, black people. This equation was galvanized when the conversation turned to the etymology of the term "slavery". In other words, the extrapolation that black people were being referred to was airtight; motherbelt did not demonstrate racism whatsoever.
"He was, and is yet, most likely, the wearisomest, self-righteous
pharisee that ever ransacked a Bible to rake the promises to himself
and fling the curses on his neighbors." -Emily Bronte
Welcome to the world of
January 25, 2008 - 14:21 ET by Jack BauerWelcome to the world of Syrius.
It's like a neverending Golden Girls episode where Bea Arthur is Queen and he's her well-oiled slave.
jack bauer
Wassauppp!!!
January 25, 2008 - 14:56 ET by SyriusKiefer,
Has the 'biotche' tat on your tookus healed yet from your
incarceration? It's creepy how you keep following me like a stalker. I
must have severely put your panties & knickers in such a twist they
look like a balloon knot. IMO, you still are the biggest crinkled star
on this website.
Cheerio,
Syrius
"...the dire consequences to society when people begin to believe that by
renaming someone to erase their humanity opens the door to the
devaluation of everyone's life..."-dscott
Welcome to the world of
January 25, 2008 - 15:10 ET by Jack BauerWelcome to the world of Syrius.
It's like the Earth, except intelligent life never made past the primeval ooze stage.
jack bauer
→ Jack
January 25, 2008 - 15:19 ET by Cool ArrowSorry, but it's not likely you're gonna top "Bea Arthur's well oiled slave" anytime soon.
I can't stop laughing.
♣ a seal
cool -- yeah, Betty White
January 25, 2008 - 15:25 ET by Jack Bauercool -- yeah, Betty White as the overlord, would have been too hideous an image.
And for some people I am a true believer in giving them the Saul Alinsky school of agit-prop.
I am laughing by the way...
January 25, 2008 - 15:26 ET by SyriusI feel so...slick!
Cheerio, my little balloon knot.
Syrius
"...the dire consequences to society when people begin to believe that by
renaming someone to erase their humanity opens the door to the
devaluation of everyone's life..."-dscott
Welcome to the world of
January 25, 2008 - 15:28 ET by Jack BauerWelcome to the world of Syrius.
It's like the Earth, except the dinosaurs were never wiped out, they just devolved into liberals.
jack bauer
Jack... ROFL! Now that
January 25, 2008 - 15:32 ET by bigtimerJack...
ROFL!
Now that is great!
....all of them are...but I love this one too.
Think it has something to do with an silly little three word obsession of mine...
....Oil!....
Come on...that was used yesterday.
January 25, 2008 - 16:09 ET by SyriusKiefer,
My twisted little balloon knot, new material would be
grand. I thought you considered yourself a 'writer'. Your hatred only
makes me stronger!
I'm oiled up for battle on the slippery slope of unoriginality...deflecting blows...from below and up above.
Syrius
"...the dire consequences to society when people begin to believe that by
renaming someone to erase their humanity opens the door to the
devaluation of everyone's life..."-dscott
Syrius
January 25, 2008 - 21:55 ET by OldSailor88When I read this particular post, it reminded me of my abnormal psychology class I just finished. In this class we learned that only homosexuals have homosexual thoughts. Your fixation on the anus is interesting to say the least.
Stultus est sicut stultus facit
So, logically speaking...
January 27, 2008 - 16:14 ET by SyriusOld Sail,
As we communicate back and forth on this website,
sharing and exploring each other's thoughts and ideas we need to think
about what someone wrote. As we comprehend what the person wrote we
formulate a question, statement, and/ or an answer to the issue posed.
So, as I write "man on man sex", you begin to formulate what I just
wrote, what it actually means and picture that image in your head as a
thought. According to your statement..."we learned that only
homosexuals have homosexual thoughts.", I guess we could come to the
conclusion we are all homosexual. So...logically, it doesn't make much
sense. So, I will disagree with you.
As for the anus comment...we all have one. My fixation is on how many there are in the conservative movement astounds me.
Syrius
"...the dire consequences to society when people begin to believe that by
renaming someone to erase their humanity opens the door to the
devaluation of everyone's life..."-dscott
Sy... Can't believe
January 27, 2008 - 16:19 ET by bigtimerSy...
Can't believe you're still stuck here...lol.
And you are here because...?
January 27, 2008 - 16:42 ET by Syrius"...the dire consequences to society when people begin to believe that by
renaming someone to erase their humanity opens the door to the
devaluation of everyone's life..."-dscott
Syrius
January 27, 2008 - 16:46 ET by botgbased on your quote i trust you will call a baby a baby from here on and stop using the term fetus.
Supreme Court, National Security, Borders, Fiscal Restraint, my litmus test for President.
Only when the baby is born.
January 27, 2008 - 17:36 ET by Syrius"...the dire consequences to society when people begin to believe that by
renaming someone to erase their humanity opens the door to the
devaluation of everyone's life..."-dscott
arbitrary point as most
January 27, 2008 - 17:48 ET by botgarbitrary point as most births could be accelerated by at least 30 days. So personhood depends on location in the world Syrius.
Supreme Court, National Security, Borders, Fiscal Restraint, my litmus test for President.
My kids were early...
January 27, 2008 - 18:09 ET by Syriusbotg,
Not to beat a dead horse over & over & over, but
your correct. I agree with you. When the fetus is born, it becomes a
baby when it's breathing on its own or with help. Plus, the advances in
medical technology have helped couple after couple realize the beauty
of having a baby. You've got no argument with me on this subject.
Cheers,
Syrius
"...the dire consequences to society when people begin to believe that by
renaming someone to erase their humanity opens the door to the
devaluation of everyone's life..."-dscott
cool beans Sy
January 27, 2008 - 18:17 ET by botglet us salute all the unborn babies by supporting politicians who will protect them!!!!
Supreme Court, National Security, Borders, Fiscal Restraint, my litmus test for President.
Right on!
January 27, 2008 - 18:28 ET by Syriusbotg,
Let's give'em all the rights and privileges due to all
US citizens. Do you think we should start the flow of money from Social
Security, Medicaid & Medicare to make sure they have the best
pre-natal care even if their mothers can't afford it? I'm with you all
the way. Let's make sure we don't exclude anyone & make sure the
300 million US citizens have the best socialized insurance for the best medical care in the world! I'm in absolute agreement with botg- Vote for the Democratic Party Nominee in November!
Syrius
"...the dire consequences to society when people begin to believe that by
renaming someone to erase their humanity opens the door to the
devaluation of everyone's life..."-dscott
lets start with life, but if
January 27, 2008 - 18:57 ET by botglets start with life, but if you personally wish to pay for health care for other peoples kids be my guest. I will continue to support organizations which provide food, clothing, some medical treatment and help to moms and newborns. Perhaps you will join us there are crisis pregnancy centers in your state which do these things. Taking other peoples money gets in a shady moral area for me.
Supreme Court, National Security, Borders, Fiscal Restraint, my litmus test for President.
Beating a dead horse...
January 28, 2008 - 11:10 ET by Syriusbotg,
The abortion topic is radioactive. I will raise the issue from time to time as we go along. Some points for everyone to think about in a compromise.
First...
When do you start to give full rights & protections of the US government to the unborn babies? Conception or some arbitrary time scale?
I have more points to make but this will begin a simple discussion with reasonable questions.
Syrius
"...the dire consequences to society when people begin to believe that by
renaming someone to erase their humanity opens the door to the
devaluation of everyone's life..."-dscott
As you say Sy
January 28, 2008 - 22:06 ET by botgConception or some arbitrary time scale?
if other time scales are arbitrary (to which i agree) would it be humane to 'compromise' on the life of a two year old? Since it is arbitrary the idea of 'compromise' for a pre-born baby is morally equivalent to the two year old.
At least Naomi Wolf has the courage to stand up for the logic of her position. (which most 'feminists' don't)
Supreme Court, National Security, Borders, Fiscal Restraint, my litmus test for President.
botg... Here...Here!
January 27, 2008 - 18:29 ET by bigtimerbotg...
Here...Here!
3 of us so far...It's a revolution!
January 27, 2008 - 18:30 ET by Syrius"...the dire consequences to society when people begin to believe that by
renaming someone to erase their humanity opens the door to the
devaluation of everyone's life..."-dscott
Sy... Think.... baby
January 27, 2008 - 18:43 ET by bigtimerSy...
Think.... baby baby baby...
I'm sure your mom didn't think of you as her little fetus....
I don't know about how she feels now...but by carrying you, or any baby there is no woman that ever thinks in terms of fetus.
Period.
No sense in going on with you about this....troll along.
The fatal flaw to your plan
January 25, 2008 - 10:48 ET by BruzillaThe fatal flaw to your plan is that not all Americans are irresponsible low-lifes. We saw the same thing back in the 1980s, when some place in Mississippi or Alabama or somewhere in the south was found to be contaminated by some evil industry or another. The lawyers rushed in and filed a huge class action suit, and the residents of the area won a huge settlement that was intended to cover their medical expenses over the years that stemmed from the exposure to toxins.
A year later a news crew went through the nieghborhood, and there were new cars, satellite TV dishes, boats, and all other manner of crap that the "victims" blew their healthcare money on, i.e., just what we saw with the same type of people post-Katrina. Unfortunately, these folks are still the exception to the rule (I hope).
Bru, Of course you're
January 25, 2008 - 11:04 ET by LeonBru,
Of course you're right and there is an element of hyperbole in my post, however, if you really think about it, it's not such a bad idea.
It won't help our savings rate at all, but domestic spending never hurt anyone.
That's true, and I'll take a
January 25, 2008 - 11:14 ET by BruzillaThat's true, and I'll take a pledge to immediately spend any $2,500 debit cards that the government wants to send my way. Dammit! I am willing to step up and take one for the economy! If spending $2,500 on strippers will help us avoid a recession, I am ready, willing, and able to do my part.
Good for you,
January 25, 2008 - 11:25 ET by motherbeltGood for you, Bru.....supporting strippers is a lousy job, but somebody's got to do it!
strippers
January 25, 2008 - 12:57 ET by ziplinedownsomeones gotta support the single mothers out there, they are part of the economy too!
"give me a break!" - John Stossel
You actually meant to say
January 25, 2008 - 15:26 ET by Roger the ShrubberYou actually meant to say "someones gotta support those struggling medical school students out there", right?
Even Bush is smarter than Leon...on the Economy
January 25, 2008 - 10:48 ET by JayTeeFirst of all Leon, you believe the Stock market is tanking, yet we see that in the week of the 5.2% un-employment quote from Williams in the Republican Debate, the Stock market is up 200+ points this week. 5.2 % would be a GOOD Clinton number during his presidency.
Plus, you need to define "Recession" and realize we ain't in one. Existing Home Sales are down 2.2% in December...WOW, that's a BIG one isn't it.
Bottom line is ..... no Recession yet, lower GNP growth rate is projected for 2008 but it's not Neg. growth, Oil is currently under 87 $, and Leon believes everything he hears on TV.
Leon, if you're going to suggest how to Save the Economy, First Establish the existence of a Crisis, and define the Crisis as existing for 3 months, not 3 days as MSM defines it.
"Barack Obama is a Powerful Speaker—And so is My Bose Bass Amp" Doug Giles
JayTee, I never said
January 25, 2008 - 10:51 ET by LeonJayTee,
I never said anything about the Stock Market.
My post is a simple reply to Bush's silly tax rebate plan.
It's an alternative.
You mean, of course, the
January 25, 2008 - 10:55 ET by Roger the ShrubberYou mean, of course, the BI-PARTISAN tax rebate plan.
Whoops! Alan is caught in a BDS moment! The expected denials can now commence.
Of course Rog, I just say
January 25, 2008 - 10:57 ET by LeonOf course Rog,
I just say Bush b/c he's the front man and it's being widely credited to him.
Oh. I see. According to
January 25, 2008 - 11:29 ET by Roger the ShrubberOh. I see.
According to AP, you are wrong.
According to Bloomberg, you are wrong.
According to USA Today, you are wrong.
Even left-wing rag UK Guardian says you are wrong.
Even Slate acknowledges "The deal was reached only after multiple negotiations, and everyone notes it was a rare example of bipartisanship in Washington." Everybody, except, of course, the all-knowing Alan Colmes.
Keep on posting, Alan! you make all of us here at Newsbusters smile!
And Bush got his Reject on the un-employment insurance
January 25, 2008 - 11:33 ET by JayTeeBush did not want an extension to un-employment benefits, and Congress removed it. You dont' extend un-employment Bene's on the first month of 5% un-employment.
"Barack Obama is a Powerful Speaker—And so is My Bose Bass Amp" Doug Giles
Rog, How can I be
January 25, 2008 - 12:34 ET by LeonRog,
How can I be wrong? I never disputed that it was achieved through bi-partisan means, I simply said that Bush's name is attached to it.
Let me get this straight, you spent time collecting articles to prove that I was wrong to use Bush's name with regards to the rebate plan? B/c I never claimed he created it.
Watching you desperately waste your time to go after me is hilarious Rog. Well, and pathetic.
Simply google Bush Rebate Plan and see how many hits you get. It's regularly attributed to him and his name is regularly attached to it.
Not sure what else you want me to say. And I'm definitely not sure how the fact that it was developed in a bi-partisan fashion has to do with the fact that it's being called Bush's rebate plan.
Alan, you said "being widely
January 25, 2008 - 12:40 ET by Roger the ShrubberAlan, you said "being widely credited to him" (Bush).
I merely, and quite easily proved you to be incorrect. As usual.
It took all of 1-2 minutes, and a quick search of Google News. You know, you would come off appearing to be a helluva lot sm