For general discussion and debate. Possible talking point: Peggy Noonan claims that George W. Bush destroyed the Republican Party:
George W. Bush destroyed the Republican Party, by which I mean he sundered it, broke its constituent pieces apart and set them against each other. He did this on spending, the size of government, war, the ability to prosecute war, immigration and other issues.
At the same time, she believes Bill Clinton is destroying the Democrat Party:
But the Clintons are tearing the party apart. It will not be the same after this. It will not be the same after its most famous leader, and probable ultimate victor, treated a proud and accomplished black man who is a U.S. senator as if he were nothing, a mere impediment to their plans. And to do it in a way that signals, to his supporters, How dare you have the temerity, the ingratitude, after all we've done for you?
Is she right on either or both counts?



















Editor at Large
Comments Policy
Yay!
January 25, 2008 - 09:29 ET by candanceFirst post!
That said, Noonan is half right in her remarks about Bush. We're divided not so much on the war, but on spending, immigration, and social issues.
welcome These are the
January 25, 2008 - 09:48 ET by USA4freedomwelcome
These are the boys of Pointe du Hoc. Ronald Reagan- 40th Anniversary of D-Day
Welcome, candance
January 25, 2008 - 11:01 ET by RJ(kidding)
Peggy Noonan has written about something that a number of us have been saying for awhile. Actually, it was Rove who sundered the party, with his "get Bush elected, re-elected, and damn the cost to the Party." Thinking back on it, Bush was just as much poll-driven (except for the war, where he was overly stubborn, and the tax cuts) as Clinton. Thus, we had out of control spending and a veto pen that remained virgin until last year.
Of course, both Clintons have followed the same ego-centric finger in the wind, damn-the-Party philosophy along with "triangulation", which has brought about the fracturing of the Democrat constituency.
United???
January 25, 2008 - 11:33 ET by wfanWhen ever, in the history of this republic, has either party been united on every issue?? I like the fact that within our party (Repubs) we have diverse opinions and those people have their reasons for being Republican. Even Reagan said if you agree with me 70 percent of the time, you're my friend.
And what about the dems. They are all the same. They all will do the same thing. You could have a ballot that looked like this in the fall:
McCain (R)
Horse (D)
And the Horse would still get 30 percent of the vote.
The question would then become...
January 25, 2008 - 12:14 ET by sarcasmoWhich candidate is smarter? (Sorry, but the video made it too-good to resist! Like I said a year ago, "it's the YouTube election!")
JMR
Rally online with fans of Dr. Ron Paul. (All purpose anti-slander-link, sadly-needed these days...)
Leon's Bright Idea of the Day
January 25, 2008 - 09:39 ET by LeonWant to avert a recession? Want to stimulate the market place?
Forget the tax rebate. I have a better solution.
Reparations. Pay them out.
What happened when Katrina survivors were given debit cards with $2,000 on them? Did they buy food? Save it for future expenses?
Nope. Not even close.
They bought commodities. Sneakers, clothes, electronics, etc. etc.
If I was Bush that's what I'd do. Save my disasterous legacy and save the economy in one fell swoop.
Why, Leon, you
January 25, 2008 - 09:46 ET by motherbeltWhy, Leon, you racist!!!
ROFL!!
Nah not racist at all.
January 25, 2008 - 09:49 ET by LeonNah not racist at all. Just an honest assessment of the situation.
I genuinely think it's a great idea in theory, although I have no idea how you'd figure out who deserved reparations and who didn't.
It would tough, I imagine, for many people to prove that their ancestors were slaves. There'd be a lot of assumption going on.
But if you could figure out the logisitics, it would be great for the economy.
LOL....Of course it's
January 25, 2008 - 10:00 ET by motherbeltLOL....Of course it's racist!
I doesn't have to do with the reparations part of what you said. But you just said that if you give a bunch of black people money, they won't spend it on food etc, they will go out and buy sneakers and electronics!!
If you don't think it's racist, just play WIARHSI?
MB, Perhaps but it's an
January 25, 2008 - 10:01 ET by LeonMB,
Perhaps but it's an economic fact that black people as a group buy domestic goods.
Statistics back this up.
Add this fact to the real world example of Katrina, and I think I have a solid strategy.
You're starting to sound like a liberal mother.
Come on, Leon, learn to
January 25, 2008 - 10:24 ET by motherbeltCome on, Leon, learn to appreciate sarcasm when you hear it. There's no way I'm a liberal..I'm giving you the liberal reaction to your suggestion. Even if a conservatvie had facts to back up that suggestion...sales figures etc. he would be considered a rank racist for saying it.
I'm going to assume you are using sarcasm too. If not, why don't you trot on over to one of the liberal websites and try floating that balloon over there? Oh, and try saying "It's a fact" that black people spend their money on sneakers and electronics. Let us know how it works out.
PS what do you consider "domestic goods"?
Tell you what, Leon,
January 25, 2008 - 11:35 ET by R D HelmIf you can produce one person who has ever been held as a slave in this country, then I will go along with the reparations movement. In fact, I will even go one better and become the poster-boy for the whole darn thing.
BTW-Every person posting comments on this site, in fact, every person you have ever seen in this country, has ancestors who, somewhere along the way, were held in some form of slavery or other.
So cough it up, 'cause I want my money! Lol.
None are so hopelessly enslaved as those who falsely believe they are free. -J.W. von Goethe
RD, Again, I'm not
January 25, 2008 - 11:38 ET by LeonRD,
Again, I'm not claiming that the Reparations are warranted, I'm simply theorizing that they'd be a great way to stimulate our economy.
Their validity is irrelevant to my plan. They're simply a vehicle to get money into the hands of people that will spend it heavily on domestic goods.
Then do not call them
January 25, 2008 - 11:42 ET by BDThen do not call them reparartions. Simply call them what they are - Dumping good money after bad....
BD, But if you call them
January 25, 2008 - 12:50 ET by LeonBD,
But if you call them reparations you would kill 2 birds with one stone.
I know, Leon.
January 25, 2008 - 11:43 ET by R D HelmJust felt like rattling your cage a little.
After all, it is Friday. :-)
None are so hopelessly enslaved as those who falsely believe they are free. -J.W. von Goethe
Fair enough RD, I can
January 25, 2008 - 12:51 ET by LeonFair enough RD,
I can live with the cage rattling.
Just curious
January 25, 2008 - 10:02 ET by KC MulvilleLeon!
Would you give Obama a share of the reparations? After all, his father was from Kenya, and his mother was white.
KC, Like I said,
January 25, 2008 - 10:05 ET by LeonKC,
Like I said, logistically it's a nightmare. But I think it's an interesting way to stimulate domestic spending.
In my mind, he would not be eligible for reparations.
Leon...
January 25, 2008 - 11:29 ET by Airforce_5_OCan I only pay half the amount of everybody else since I had relitives fighting on both sides of the civil war??????
I really want to do my part you know.
What really would be
January 25, 2008 - 10:31 ET by MidAmericaWhat really would be confusing is that some families have switched color through inter-racial mixing. That is, some present day white folks are descended from slaves and some black folks are descended from slave-owners.
Someone once said that
January 25, 2008 - 10:54 ET by motherbeltSomeone once said that reparations would be fine, as long as that marked the debt "Paid in Full." No more affirmative action, no more college admissions quotas or extra points added for being black, no more NAACP etc.
How many black leaders do you think would accept that?
Motherbelt
January 25, 2008 - 11:31 ET by iveseenitallGreat catch, Motherbelt! Sneakers? Leon's "private" racism peeks its ugly head out. His masters at the DNC won't like that.
As I've often said, some of the worst "racists", "homophobes", "sexists" are so-called "liberals" in their private moments. Hypocrites!
NEVER,NEVER trust a "liberal"
Just to be precise...
January 25, 2008 - 11:59 ET by SyriusDear Motherbelt,
For some reason, you twisted Leon's statement...
"What happened when Katrina survivors were given debit cards with $2,000
on them? Did they buy food? Save it for future expenses?"
...into a racist remark by substituting 'black people' for 'Katrina survivors'..."I doesn't have to do with the reparations part of what you said. But
you just said that if you give a bunch of black people money, they
won't spend it on food etc, they will go out and buy sneakers and
electronics!!"
Who is the racist?!?
Syrius
"...the dire consequences to society when people begin to believe that by
renaming someone to erase their humanity opens the door to the
devaluation of everyone's life..."-dscott
Dear Syrius
January 25, 2008 - 13:41 ET by motherbeltI did not equate "Katrina survivors" to "black people."
Leon said after Katrina, the people who got money went out and bought sneakers and electronics. He then suggested paying out "reparations" as a way to boost the economy, because those people who got the money would do the same thing.
What race are the people who would get "reparations" and have money to spend?
Now, who made the racist statement?
motherbelt
January 25, 2008 - 13:49 ET by candanceDon't listen to Syrius. Only yesterday he tried to educate me on Christianity by saying salvation through the cross was only believed in some churches.
Actually, it varies amongst different faiths...
January 25, 2008 - 14:00 ET by Syrius...and you couldn't answer the question.And you call yourself a Christian? You take my breath away with your hatred of me.
Syrius
"...the dire consequences to society when people begin to believe that by
renaming someone to erase their humanity opens the door to the
devaluation of everyone's life..."-dscott
Okay Syrius
January 25, 2008 - 14:06 ET by candanceYou want an answer okay I'll give you one. But seriously it's like asking someone what 2 + 2 is and saying it equals 5 if they don't answer the way you like.
It's a very simple formula:
sin = death
Christ died as my substitute = atonement
I accept his substitution and thank Him for it = salvation
Now you please show me your list of Christian churches that refute it.
Here's a hint to help you get started: Islam doesn't count.
Salvation according to your faith...
January 25, 2008 - 14:23 ET by Syrius...is fine which I believe you are entitled to believe. My point was
that salvation comes in many forms which you may or may not believe.
Your belief and salvation will be between you and your God. The problem
exists when you start to judge others. If you'd like a little refresher
on other faiths' salvation beliefs...
http://en.wikipedia....
Thanks for your response.
Syrius
"...the dire consequences to society when people begin to believe that by
renaming someone to erase their humanity opens the door to the
devaluation of everyone's life..."-dscott
If you'd like a refresher on other faiths' salvation beliefs...
January 25, 2008 - 14:29 ET by vrwc13...problem is they all will tell you the same thing...only one of them can be right!
v
All roads lead to heaven...not
"Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life; no man cometh to the Father but by me." John 14:6.
this is hilarious
January 25, 2008 - 14:37 ET by candanceLet me give you a refresher on yesterday.
You said: The Gospels describe the miraculous birth, life, ministry, crucifixion, and resurrection of Jesus Christ.
I said: after your astute recollection of the gospel of Christ, you ask a Christian how they believe salvation is obtained.
You said: You do know the definition of salvation varies according to different doctrines?
Yet within that Wiki not one single passage about a Christian church refutes my point.
Syrius' wiki link is in
January 26, 2008 - 00:31 ET by tracheostomySyrius' wiki link is in itself a red herring meant to make the issue look more complicated than it already is. Soteriology can be easily broken down into three distinct camps.
(a.) Pelagianism
(b.) Semi-Pelagianism (a.k.a. "synergism") <--- This is currently the most popular.
(c.) Monergism
As stated above, only one can be right. The confusion is further erased by removing all merits of man and giving all credit (100% of it) to God alone.
Class dismissed. Except you Syrius, you're staying after to clean erasers.
EDIT: Bumped for P-Tech, who's gonna stand in the corner.
-PJ
"Trake: Your lofty convictions are another blemish on the rump of congregational sectarianism." -Tumbler 5/15/07
d
January 25, 2008 - 15:10 ET by motherbeltdelete double
Your words, my friend, your words.
January 25, 2008 - 14:09 ET by SyriusMB,
Please reread your words. I cannot see where Leon said
"black people". I believe it would have been more appropriate if you
were to use "disenfranchised" instead of 'black' to describe those on
the lower economic scale which could include blacks, whites, hispanics,
etc. The best word would have been to say "lower income Americans" or
just "Katrina survivors", but you did infer your own racist thinking by
saying 'black people'.
Syrius
"...the dire consequences to society when people begin to believe that by
renaming someone to erase their humanity opens the door to the
devaluation of everyone's life..."-dscott
I didn't say
January 25, 2008 - 15:22 ET by motherbeltI didn't say "disenfranchised" people because I wasnt' talking about those on the lower economic scale.
Just because Leon mentioned Katrina survivors in the same post doesn't mean that's what I was responding to.
I'll say this again, so listen up:
I called Leon racist for saying that paying reparations would put money into the economy, because after Katrina, (he said) the survivors bought clothes, sneakers, and electronics with the money; and implied that reparations money would be used in the same way.
Now, regardless of who the people were that bought the stuff after Katrina, did Leon not imply that those receiving reparations would do the same? Yes he did. And who would get the reparations? The poor and disenfranchised? No. Black people. And who would spend the reparations money on sneakers, clothes and elctronics? Those black people.
So the answer to your question "who is the racist?" is "Leon."
"Of course it's racist"...
January 25, 2008 - 15:47 ET by SyriusMB,
Repeating over and over again... what you think and what you wrote shows latent racism which was exposed in your comment.
" LOL....Of course it's
January 25, 2008 - 10:00 ET by motherbelt
LOL....Of course it's racist!
I(t) doesn't have to do with the reparations part of what you said.(which means forgiving him & not using it against him.) But
you just said(quoting Leon...) that if you give a bunch of black people money, they
won't spend it on food etc, they will go out and buy sneakers and
electronics!!"
If you don't think it's racist, just play WIARHSI?"...
You substituted "black people" for "Katrina survivors", period. Why did you substitute those words? It's a reasonable question.
Syrius
"...the dire consequences to society when people begin to believe that by
renaming someone to erase their humanity opens the door to the
devaluation of everyone's life..."-dscott
You're a little late with
January 25, 2008 - 15:50 ET by tracheostomyYou're a little late with the calling out on mental substitutions. Motherbelt already did it to Leon first.
Please try to keep up.
-PJ
"Trake: Your lofty convictions are another blemish on the rump of congregational sectarianism." -Tumbler 5/15/07
Get a grip, Syrius
January 25, 2008 - 20:27 ET by motherbeltThe "black people" I was referring to were the ones who would get Leon's proposed reparations money.
The reference to "it's not about the reparations" meant that I wasn't arguing with him over whether reparations (as a policy) were a good idea.
I hope that's clear now. I haven't repeated anything, but I will if necessary.
haha, motherbelt, I've avoided getting tangled up with Syrius
January 25, 2008 - 20:38 ET by RJfor a couple of weeks. But tonight, against my better judgment, I tried to have an intelligent conversation with him. Wow. BIG mistake. I feel like I've been in an episode of Twilight Zone.
Not only that, mb
January 25, 2008 - 15:56 ET by RJbut if Syrius would read the thread, he'd see that leon accepted without argument your contention that he was talking about blacks.
Excuse me but I made a clear point.
January 25, 2008 - 16:16 ET by SyriusTo all,
As you gather round to come in defense of a racist,
whether he knows it or not, when should I consider you guilty by
association? Clearly, I proved my point in showing the
differences in each quote. I'll leave it at that...
Syrius
"...the dire consequences to society when people begin to believe that by
renaming someone to erase their humanity opens the door to the
devaluation of everyone's life..."-dscott
Thus demonstrating
January 25, 2008 - 18:20 ET by RJwhy I avoid attempting to argue with Syrius. Instead of specifically answering my point, he threw out yet another vague "I'm right and you're wrong" statement.
Sorry I wasn't able to respond quickly enough...
January 25, 2008 - 18:54 ET by SyriusRJ,
This was not about Leon, but Motherbelt and his latent racism, period. By replacing "Katrina survivors" with "black people"
exposed or brought to light his unconcious or dormant form of racism.
Your silence would be better than your defense of him. I'm not asking
for your support. His words are for all to see. Now I'm done...
Syrius
"...the dire consequences to society when people begin to believe that by
renaming someone to erase their humanity opens the door to the
devaluation of everyone's life..."-dscott
Of course it's about leon
January 25, 2008 - 19:20 ET by RJFirst, common sense should tell you that "motherbelt" is a "she"
Leon is as much a part of the discussion as Motherbelt, because his reaction proves her assumption to be correct. Leon did not disagree when she correctly judged that he was speaking of blacks. The conversation continued, because they both understood they were talking about the same thing.
But here's the kicker: logically, if you're going to claim Motherbelt is racist for substituting "black people" for "Katrina survivors", then you have to charge leon with the same thing. That's because when he meant "black people", he said "Katrina survivors."
I don't buy your argument, but if it were true, it would be true of both of them.
Give it up, RJ, I'm going
January 25, 2008 - 20:40 ET by motherbeltGive it up, RJ, I'm going to. Apparently these explanations are beyond Syrius's reading comprehension skills.
Reminds me of a story I heard about a little girl who asks her Dad how Santa is going to get into their house, since they don't have a chimney. The father figures she's old enough to hear the truth. He gives a long explanation of how Santa is a story, the spirit of Christmas, the meaning of gifts etc, thinks he's got it covered. Says "do you understand?" The little girls says, "Yes, but how is he going to get into the house????"
That's Syrius.
hahaha! That's a PERFECT description, mb
January 25, 2008 - 20:42 ET by RJ...that absolutely nails his "thinking" capacity.
Syrius, equating Katrina
January 25, 2008 - 23:18 ET by JasonCSyrius, equating Katrina Survivors with Black People may be racist; however, the analogy that Leon advanced compared the spending behavior of Katrina Survivors with the potential spending habits of those who would receive reparations. Potential beneficiaries of reparations would be, like it or not, black people. This equation was galvanized when the conversation turned to the etymology of the term "slavery". In other words, the extrapolation that black people were being referred to was airtight; motherbelt did not demonstrate racism whatsoever.
"He was, and is yet, most likely, the wearisomest, self-righteous
pharisee that ever ransacked a Bible to rake the promises to himself
and fling the curses on his neighbors." -Emily Bronte
Welcome to the world of
January 25, 2008 - 13:21 ET by Jack BauerWelcome to the world of Syrius.
It's like a neverending Golden Girls episode where Bea Arthur is Queen and he's her well-oiled slave.
jack bauer
Wassauppp!!!
January 25, 2008 - 13:56 ET by SyriusKiefer,
Has the 'biotche' tat on your tookus healed yet from your
incarceration? It's creepy how you keep following me like a stalker. I
must have severely put your panties & knickers in such a twist they
look like a balloon knot. IMO, you still are the biggest crinkled star
on this website.
Cheerio,
Syrius
"...the dire consequences to society when people begin to believe that by
renaming someone to erase their humanity opens the door to the
devaluation of everyone's life..."-dscott
Welcome to the world of
January 25, 2008 - 14:10 ET by Jack BauerWelcome to the world of Syrius.
It's like the Earth, except intelligent life never made past the primeval ooze stage.
jack bauer
→ Jack
January 25, 2008 - 14:19 ET by Cool ArrowSorry, but it's not likely you're gonna top "Bea Arthur's well oiled slave" anytime soon.
I can't stop laughing.
♣ a seal
cool -- yeah, Betty White
January 25, 2008 - 14:25 ET by Jack Bauercool -- yeah, Betty White as the overlord, would have been too hideous an image.
And for some people I am a true believer in giving them the Saul Alinsky school of agit-prop.
I am laughing by the way...
January 25, 2008 - 14:26 ET by SyriusI feel so...slick!
Cheerio, my little balloon knot.
Syrius
"...the dire consequences to society when people begin to believe that by
renaming someone to erase their humanity opens the door to the
devaluation of everyone's life..."-dscott
Welcome to the world of
January 25, 2008 - 14:28 ET by Jack BauerWelcome to the world of Syrius.
It's like the Earth, except the dinosaurs were never wiped out, they just devolved into liberals.
jack bauer
Jack... ROFL! Now that
January 25, 2008 - 14:32 ET by bigtimerJack...
ROFL!
Now that is great!
....all of them are...but I love this one too.
Think it has something to do with an silly little three word obsession of mine...
....Oil!....
Come on...that was used yesterday.
January 25, 2008 - 15:09 ET by SyriusKiefer,
My twisted little balloon knot, new material would be
grand. I thought you considered yourself a 'writer'. Your hatred only
makes me stronger!
I'm oiled up for battle on the slippery slope of unoriginality...deflecting blows...from below and up above.
Syrius
"...the dire consequences to society when people begin to believe that by
renaming someone to erase their humanity opens the door to the
devaluation of everyone's life..."-dscott
Syrius
January 25, 2008 - 20:55 ET by OldSailor88When I read this particular post, it reminded me of my abnormal psychology class I just finished. In this class we learned that only homosexuals have homosexual thoughts. Your fixation on the anus is interesting to say the least.
Stultus est sicut stultus facit
So, logically speaking...
January 27, 2008 - 15:14 ET by SyriusOld Sail,
As we communicate back and forth on this website,
sharing and exploring each other's thoughts and ideas we need to think
about what someone wrote. As we comprehend what the person wrote we
formulate a question, statement, and/ or an answer to the issue posed.
So, as I write "man on man sex", you begin to formulate what I just
wrote, what it actually means and picture that image in your head as a
thought. According to your statement..."we learned that only
homosexuals have homosexual thoughts.", I guess we could come to the
conclusion we are all homosexual. So...logically, it doesn't make much
sense. So, I will disagree with you.
As for the anus comment...we all have one. My fixation is on how many there are in the conservative movement astounds me.
Syrius
"...the dire consequences to society when people begin to believe that by
renaming someone to erase their humanity opens the door to the
devaluation of everyone's life..."-dscott
Sy... Can't believe
January 27, 2008 - 15:19 ET by bigtimerSy...
Can't believe you're still stuck here...lol.
And you are here because...?
January 27, 2008 - 15:42 ET by Syrius"...the dire consequences to society when people begin to believe that by
renaming someone to erase their humanity opens the door to the
devaluation of everyone's life..."-dscott
Syrius
January 27, 2008 - 15:46 ET bybased on your quote i trust you will call a baby a baby from here on and stop using the term fetus.
Supreme Court, National Security, Borders, Fiscal Restraint, my litmus test for President.
Only when the baby is born.
January 27, 2008 - 16:36 ET by Syrius"...the dire consequences to society when people begin to believe that by
renaming someone to erase their humanity opens the door to the
devaluation of everyone's life..."-dscott
arbitrary point as most
January 27, 2008 - 16:48 ET byarbitrary point as most births could be accelerated by at least 30 days. So personhood depends on location in the world Syrius.
Supreme Court, National Security, Borders, Fiscal Restraint, my litmus test for President.
My kids were early...
January 27, 2008 - 17:09 ET by Syriusbotg,
Not to beat a dead horse over & over & over, but
your correct. I agree with you. When the fetus is born, it becomes a
baby when it's breathing on its own or with help. Plus, the advances in
medical technology have helped couple after couple realize the beauty
of having a baby. You've got no argument with me on this subject.
Cheers,
Syrius
"...the dire consequences to society when people begin to believe that by
renaming someone to erase their humanity opens the door to the
devaluation of everyone's life..."-dscott
cool beans Sy
January 27, 2008 - 17:17 ET bylet us salute all the unborn babies by supporting politicians who will protect them!!!!
Supreme Court, National Security, Borders, Fiscal Restraint, my litmus test for President.
Right on!
January 27, 2008 - 17:28 ET by Syriusbotg,
Let's give'em all the rights and privileges due to all
US citizens. Do you think we should start the flow of money from Social
Security, Medicaid & Medicare to make sure they have the best
pre-natal care even if their mothers can't afford it? I'm with you all
the way. Let's make sure we don't exclude anyone & make sure the
300 million US citizens have the best socialized insurance for the best medical care in the world! I'm in absolute agreement with botg- Vote for the Democratic Party Nominee in November!
Syrius
"...the dire consequences to society when people begin to believe that by
renaming someone to erase their humanity opens the door to the
devaluation of everyone's life..."-dscott
lets start with life, but if
January 27, 2008 - 17:57 ET bylets start with life, but if you personally wish to pay for health care for other peoples kids be my guest. I will continue to support organizations which provide food, clothing, some medical treatment and help to moms and newborns. Perhaps you will join us there are crisis pregnancy centers in your state which do these things. Taking other peoples money gets in a shady moral area for me.
Supreme Court, National Security, Borders, Fiscal Restraint, my litmus test for President.
Beating a dead horse...
January 28, 2008 - 10:10 ET by Syriusbotg,
The abortion topic is radioactive. I will raise the issue from time to time as we go along. Some points for everyone to think about in a compromise.
First...
When do you start to give full rights & protections of the US government to the unborn babies? Conception or some arbitrary time scale?
I have more points to make but this will begin a simple discussion with reasonable questions.
Syrius
"...the dire consequences to society when people begin to believe that by
renaming someone to erase their humanity opens the door to the
devaluation of everyone's life..."-dscott
As you say Sy
January 28, 2008 - 21:06 ET byConception or some arbitrary time scale?
if other time scales are arbitrary (to which i agree) would it be humane to 'compromise' on the life of a two year old? Since it is arbitrary the idea of 'compromise' for a pre-born baby is morally equivalent to the two year old.
At least Naomi Wolf has the courage to stand up for the logic of her position. (which most 'feminists' don't)
Supreme Court, National Security, Borders, Fiscal Restraint, my litmus test for President.
botg... Here...Here!
January 27, 2008 - 17:29 ET by bigtimerbotg...
Here...Here!
3 of us so far...It's a revolution!
January 27, 2008 - 17:30 ET by Syrius"...the dire consequences to society when people begin to believe that by
renaming someone to erase their humanity opens the door to the
devaluation of everyone's life..."-dscott
Sy... Think.... baby
January 27, 2008 - 17:43 ET by bigtimerSy...
Think.... baby baby baby...
I'm sure your mom didn't think of you as her little fetus....
I don't know about how she feels now...but by carrying you, or any baby there is no woman that ever thinks in terms of fetus.
Period.
No sense in going on with you about this....troll along.
The fatal flaw to your plan
January 25, 2008 - 09:48 ET by BruzillaThe fatal flaw to your plan is that not all Americans are irresponsible low-lifes. We saw the same thing back in the 1980s, when some place in Mississippi or Alabama or somewhere in the south was found to be contaminated by some evil industry or another. The lawyers rushed in and filed a huge class action suit, and the residents of the area won a huge settlement that was intended to cover their medical expenses over the years that stemmed from the exposure to toxins.
A year later a news crew went through the nieghborhood, and there were new cars, satellite TV dishes, boats, and all other manner of crap that the "victims" blew their healthcare money on, i.e., just what we saw with the same type of people post-Katrina. Unfortunately, these folks are still the exception to the rule (I hope).
Bru, Of course you're
January 25, 2008 - 10:04 ET by LeonBru,
Of course you're right and there is an element of hyperbole in my post, however, if you really think about it, it's not such a bad idea.
It won't help our savings rate at all, but domestic spending never hurt anyone.
That's true, and I'll take a
January 25, 2008 - 10:14 ET by BruzillaThat's true, and I'll take a pledge to immediately spend any $2,500 debit cards that the government wants to send my way. Dammit! I am willing to step up and take one for the economy! If spending $2,500 on strippers will help us avoid a recession, I am ready, willing, and able to do my part.
Good for you,
January 25, 2008 - 10:25 ET by motherbeltGood for you, Bru.....supporting strippers is a lousy job, but somebody's got to do it!
strippers
January 25, 2008 - 11:57 ET by ziplinedownsomeones gotta support the single mothers out there, they are part of the economy too!
"give me a break!" - John Stossel
You actually meant to say
January 25, 2008 - 14:26 ET by Roger the ShrubberYou actually meant to say "someones gotta support those struggling medical school students out there", right?
Even Bush is smarter than Leon...on the Economy
January 25, 2008 - 09:48 ET by JayTeeFirst of all Leon, you believe the Stock market is tanking, yet we see that in the week of the 5.2% un-employment quote from Williams in the Republican Debate, the Stock market is up 200+ points this week. 5.2 % would be a GOOD Clinton number during his presidency.
Plus, you need to define "Recession" and realize we ain't in one. Existing Home Sales are down 2.2% in December...WOW, that's a BIG one isn't it.
Bottom line is ..... no Recession yet, lower GNP growth rate is projected for 2008 but it's not Neg. growth, Oil is currently under 87 $, and Leon believes everything he hears on TV.
Leon, if you're going to suggest how to Save the Economy, First Establish the existence of a Crisis, and define the Crisis as existing for 3 months, not 3 days as MSM defines it.
"Barack Obama is a Powerful Speaker—And so is My Bose Bass Amp" Doug Giles
JayTee, I never said
January 25, 2008 - 09:51 ET by LeonJayTee,
I never said anything about the Stock Market.
My post is a simple reply to Bush's silly tax rebate plan.
It's an alternative.
You mean, of course, the
January 25, 2008 - 09:55 ET by Roger the ShrubberYou mean, of course, the BI-PARTISAN tax rebate plan.
Whoops! Alan is caught in a BDS moment! The expected denials can now commence.
Of course Rog, I just say
January 25, 2008 - 09:57 ET by LeonOf course Rog,
I just say Bush b/c he's the front man and it's being widely credited to him.
Oh. I see. According to
January 25, 2008 - 10:29 ET by Roger the ShrubberOh. I see.
According to AP, you are wrong.
According to Bloomberg, you are wrong.
According to USA Today, you are wrong.
Even left-wing rag UK Guardian says you are wrong.
Even Slate acknowledges "The deal was reached only after multiple negotiations, and everyone notes it was a rare example of bipartisanship in Washington." Everybody, except, of course, the all-knowing Alan Colmes.
Keep on posting, Alan! you make all of us here at Newsbusters smile!
And Bush got his Reject on the un-employment insurance
January 25, 2008 - 10:33 ET by JayTeeBush did not want an extension to un-employment benefits, and Congress removed it. You dont' extend un-employment Bene's on the first month of 5% un-employment.
"Barack Obama is a Powerful Speaker—And so is My Bose Bass Amp" Doug Giles
Rog, How can I be
January 25, 2008 - 11:34 ET by LeonRog,
How can I be wrong? I never disputed that it was achieved through bi-partisan means, I simply said that Bush's name is attached to it.
Let me get this straight, you spent time collecting articles to prove that I was wrong to use Bush's name with regards to the rebate plan? B/c I never claimed he created it.
Watching you desperately waste your time to go after me is hilarious Rog. Well, and pathetic.
Simply google Bush Rebate Plan and see how many hits you get. It's regularly attributed to him and his name is regularly attached to it.
Not sure what else you want me to say. And I'm definitely not sure how the fact that it was developed in a bi-partisan fashion has to do with the fact that it's being called Bush's rebate plan.
Alan, you said "being widely
January 25, 2008 - 11:40 ET by Roger the ShrubberAlan, you said "being widely credited to him" (Bush).
I merely, and quite easily proved you to be incorrect. As usual.
It took all of 1-2 minutes, and a quick search of Google News. You know, you would come off appearing to be a helluva lot smarter if you only took a little time to make sure you weren't going to come off looking like a blithering idiot. I succinctly pointed out it was Bi-partisan, yet you still had to focus on Bush.
You keep denying you suffer from BDS, yet this is another example. I am only trying to help you cope with this obvious problem you are suffering from. We only want to help you get better, Alan.
Rog, I am right. Sorry
January 25, 2008 - 11:57 ET by LeonRog,
I am right. Sorry tiger. As I stated before, some of us have jobs and can't spend all morning leisurely surfing the internet.
So to counter your petty, irrelevant argument (which is that this rebate plan isn't widely credited to Bush?), I'll just use one of the same sources you used to 'prove me wrong'.
Bloomberg:
Bush Stimulus Plan Includes $1,600 Rebate, People Say
The Bush administration is close to completing an economic-stimulus proposal that will include $800 rebates for individuals and $1,600 for households
So as everyone that's paid any sort of attention to the news would know, this plan is being widely credited to Bush and his administration.
Thank you for wasting your own time though. It's good to see you out there contributing to society.
Boo-hoo. Boo-hoo. Always
January 25, 2008 - 12:11 ET by Roger the ShrubberBoo-hoo. Boo-hoo. Always the victim. You think you are the only person working out there, victim? You constantly complain and cry about "being at work". Boo-friggin-hoo, victim.
Thanks for further proving my point. Your Bloomberg article is from Jan 17, seven whole days before Congress hammered out a BIPARTISAN agreement with the President. You might notice the "update" towards the bottom of your link, where it says "Bipartisan Support". Your "proof" only shows the nucleus of the plan. It took both sides of the Congressional aisle to hammer out a deal.
Nice try, though.
Rog, In no way does what
January 25, 2008 - 12:16 ET by LeonRog,
In no way does what you've written dispute my claim that this has been widely-credited to Bush and his administration.
From my article:
White House and Treasury officials have been working since late November on the outlines of a plan to stave off a recession or ameliorate the effects if one occurs.
While the final plan was the result of bi-partisan negotiation, the original idea and the original planning were from Bush and his Administration, hence the fact that it has been widely credited to him.
Widely: by or among a large
January 25, 2008 - 12:31 ET by Roger the ShrubberWidely: by or among a large number of persons.
You still have yet to show me any proof of credit being "widely" given to the President. You linked one article that was easily debunked (nowhere is credit widely given to Bush in your article).
I offered copious pieces of evidence to the contrary, yet, still, somehow, you are still correct?
Interesting logic, displayed time and time again by poor, dear Alan. Poor, victim Alan.
Rog, Simple Google
January 25, 2008 - 12:39 ET by LeonRog,
Simple Google Search
You done yet?
Nary a "widely credited" to
January 25, 2008 - 14:03 ET by Roger the ShrubberNary a "widely credited" to be found. Congratulations on proving the President Bush has a rebate proposal, but it took a bipartisan effort in Congress to pass it.
Repeating the same thing over and over and over does not make it true, comrade. You are havnig a bad day here at Newsbuster. Time to crawl back into your hole and lick your wounds, victim.
Rog, Really I have no
January 25, 2008 - 14:34 ET by LeonRog,
Really I have no idea what you're talking about.
I've never disputed the bi-partisan nature of the final agreement.
Again, that doesn't change the fact that many are calling it Bush's plan.
I'm having a bad day? That's interesting b/c I feel great.
I started off with a fun thought provoking post which riled you up so much that you spent hours defending some bizarre argument that makes no sense.
I'm not even sure what you're arguing b/c I've clearly shown that many people credit Bush with this plan and I've shown many instances where it's being called Bush's plan.
Your desperate obsession with me is endearing, but could you at least try to go after me about something that matters?
Alan, you people are being
January 25, 2008 - 14:43 ET by Roger the ShrubberAlan, you people are being widely credited for proving that slavery began when slaves were shipped to the Colonies. Congratulations!
Rog, By you people you
January 25, 2008 - 16:16 ET by LeonRog,
By you people you mean Lion King, not me.
I merely repeated what he said in order to challenge the ridiculousness of his statement which I clearly demonstrated to yourself and Jack Bauer further down the thread.
You're simply misinformed due to lack of reading comprehension. It's cool. Better luck next time.
Illustrating what you
January 25, 2008 - 10:18 ET by motherbeltIllustrating what you consider an absurdity by being absurd yourself?
Leon
January 25, 2008 - 09:49 ET by sentforth5I think you do this crap on purpose...you really can't think what you write.
Your first mistake is acceptance of the premise. Financially, America is in better-than-great shape.
Secondly,those cards were fraudulantly obtained in many cases, and a great deal of that cash went to gambling,alcohol and drugs that went on to finance mexican drug cartels and islamic drug runners.
Reparations for what, dude? My ancesters came legally to America in the late 1890's and I'll be damned if any of my money goes to descendants of a people my family never enslaved!
Thank God you are not prez.
Sentforth, 1) If we're
January 25, 2008 - 09:55 ET by LeonSentforth,
1) If we're in such great shape why is Bush giving out tax rebates?
2) Ok so some cards were fraudulently obtained. Not sure what that has to do with the spending behavior of those that obtained the cards legally. They did exactly what I said they did almost across the board.
3) The validity of having to pay reparations is irrelevant. My family was in the Northeast since the 1600s. We never owned slaves. I agree that it's a ridiculous premise, but so long as Bush is already handing out money why not give it to people that are just going to give it right back?
4) As a group, black people buy domestic goods. How could this be bad for the economy?
Leon sinks to new low
January 25, 2008 - 10:00 ET by candanceAs a group, black people buy domestic goods.
This is a dressed-up version of saying black people blow money on material possessions. How precisely is that not a racist remark?
Candance, B/c it's backed
January 25, 2008 - 10:02 ET by LeonCandance,
B/c it's backed up by the statistics. It's rooted in actual numbers. It's reality.
Sorry. Not racist at all.
okay Leon
January 25, 2008 - 10:06 ET by candanceI can't believe you're on here using Katrina to say "lookie here! I told you black people were irresponsible!"
If a Republican said that they'd get fired the next day, and you know it. But apparently it's different for folks like you.
Candance, I never said
January 25, 2008 - 10:09 ET by LeonCandance,
I never said irresponsible, I just said a consumer group, black people tend to spend money on domestic items, SOMETIMES even to the exclusion of necessities (like in Katrina).
Don't believe me? Check out credit defaults, cell phone defaults.
Except that Leon is a
January 25, 2008 - 13:55 ET by JasonCExcept that Leon is a private citizen with 1st Amendment rights and is not beholden to a political constituency or a media conglomerate's standards of appropriate speech. Thus he, like the rest of you, can say whatever he wishes, even if that entails positing an obviously absurd premise in order to make a cogent point about tax rebates.
"He was, and is yet, most likely, the wearisomest, self-righteous
pharisee that ever ransacked a Bible to rake the promises to himself
and fling the curses on his neighbors." -Emily Bronte
True words, Jason. Alan has
January 25, 2008 - 14:24 ET by Roger the ShrubberTrue words, Jason. Alan has the right to speak freely.
Alan also has the burden of accepting of the consequences of "free stupid speech", too.
Free speech, to the shock of many people, is not a one-way street.
Why 'Alan'? And I agree
January 25, 2008 - 14:34 ET by JasonCWhy 'Alan'?
And I agree with you here Rog. I just found odd the choice of words that if Leon were a Republican he would be "fired".
"He was, and is yet, most likely, the wearisomest, self-righteous
pharisee that ever ransacked a Bible to rake the promises to himself
and fling the curses on his neighbors." -Emily Bronte
I’m going to break this
January 25, 2008 - 14:56 ET by Airforce_5_OI’m going to break this one down slowly, if he were a Republican and had said that he would have been run out of office. Got it?
But honestly, if he were a
January 25, 2008 - 15:33 ET by JasonCBut honestly, if he were a Democrat in office he would have been run out as well, unless the racial implication was couched in very careful rhetoric or rock-solid stats. However, the original remark didn't make any sort of qualification about politicians saying it. It was posed as though any common citizen who said it would be "fired"; in other words, it amounted to something like the 12 millionth instance on this site of a conservative claiming his/her 1st Amendment Rights are restricted simply because he/she is a conservative.
"He was, and is yet, most likely, the wearisomest, self-righteous
pharisee that ever ransacked a Bible to rake the promises to himself
and fling the curses on his neighbors." -Emily Bronte
And in a circular liberal
January 25, 2008 - 14:45 ET by Airforce_5_OAnd in a circular liberal logic sort of way, it works. Right Sparky?
Arf! Arf!
That’s a good boy!
It's a fact that
January 25, 2008 - 10:28 ET by motherbeltIt's a fact that black-on-white crime is more prevalent than white-on-black, Leon. Try saying that in a liberal stronghold.
Candance, Check out consumer
January 25, 2008 - 10:07 ET by LeonCandance,
Check out consumer spending based on race.
Leon, as usual, you are
January 25, 2008 - 10:32 ET by motherbeltLeon, as usual, you are pretending that you "just don't see" why it's a problem. You're just a wide-eyed innocent, right?
You know darn well no one is arguing about the "facts" of what you say, if indeed you have the figures to back them up. The point is the political incorrectness of saying it.
And if you ahve "consumer spending by race" figures to support you, by all means, bring it on. Don't tell others to go looking for what you want them to see.
okie dokie...
January 25, 2008 - 10:05 ET by sentforth51) Mr. Bush has bent down and kissed democrap butt since he got in office.
2)I disagree...can ya toss me some stats on that?
3)justifying bad actions just cuz lots of folks agree with it does not float.
4) I disagree.
Sent, 1) Ok 2) Did
January 25, 2008 - 10:15 ET by LeonSent,
1) Ok
2) Did you read any news at all following Katrina? Any? And I love how you make a claim about people obtaining cards fraudulently, provide no stats for your claim, but then demand stats from me. Nice debate tactic
3) Can't understand you. Don't know what you're saying. Doesn't seem to be an appropriate response.
4) How can you disagree? There's nothing to disagree with. (a) black people as a consumer group buy domestic goods (b) this is good for our economy. How can you disagree? This is reality.
well...
January 25, 2008 - 10:21 ET by sentforth5I admit it is difficult to argue with an idiot.
I give...love and kissies,tho.
Leon doesn't believe half
January 25, 2008 - 10:48 ET by motherbeltLeon doesn't believe half the stuff he writes. He just likes yanking people's chains.
Hiiiiiiyah!
January 25, 2008 - 11:28 ET by sentforth5You should take that motherbelt of yours and spin-kick some sense into leon!
→ Kung Fu
January 25, 2008 - 11:33 ET by Cool ArrowYour kung fu is good but you rack disciprine - Bluce Ree
♣ a seal
Hey Leon don't forget Magic City
January 25, 2008 - 11:35 ET by ShaftBigScoreThis tax "rebate" will provide an increased number of employed strippers at the clubs. The money will increase the sales in these fine establishments with better tips for the long time professional employees, I mean strippers. With the increased cash from the Fed, we can do like Pac-Man Jones and "make it rain" with cash in the club. That is what SOME of the Katrina victims did with their money back in 2005.
I favor the Civil Rights Act of 1964 and it must be enforced at gunpoint if necessary. President Ronald Reagan
I hear ya' on some of your
January 25, 2008 - 10:29 ET by balboaI hear ya' on some of your points, but why would Bush care to kiss butt at this point? He's on his way out.
So, again, why the stimulus package?
I'm gonna take a stab at
January 25, 2008 - 10:40 ET by motherbeltI'm gonna take a stab at "The Coming Election" for $200, Alex.
Question: what is "to take the issue away from Democrats?"
So there are no economic
January 25, 2008 - 10:58 ET by balboaSo there are no economic woes, but Bush is going to give people money so that Democrats can't?
I hope you have more
January 25, 2008 - 11:10 ET by Chris NormanI hope you have more comprehension than your answer indicates. There are "economic woes", but the Great Cash Give Away won't solve what the problems really are and will probably, by raising the debt even further, make them even worse. The Democrats are always buying votes from the weak minded and this time, the GOP wants their name on the gift card, too.
I thought everything was
January 25, 2008 - 11:10 ET by balboaI thought everything was OK, economically?
Oh, you scamp. You're
January 25, 2008 - 11:20 ET by Chris NormanOh, you scamp. You're employing the all or nothing argument - if I say something is okay, but some elements need to be fixed, you come back with "I thought you said everything was okay." This is Balboa's Method #3.
Lol. No, I'm genuinely
January 25, 2008 - 11:22 ET by balboaLol. No, I'm genuinely confused when it comes to economics. Every article or story in the news about a downturn in the economy is blasted by the Newbusters staff, which gives me the impression that everything's OK.
In general, things seem fine. My life hasn't been affected adversely.
Bal,NB and a lot of people
January 25, 2008 - 11:36 ET by Chris NormanBal,
NB and a lot of people here aren't opposed to the media honestly reporting economic news - good or bad. What has been documented here is their long record of "the sky is falling" reporting, grabbing on any news and spinning it to fit their mantra that a recession is imminent. Reflect back, and try to remember if you can recall the same negative mood of economic reporting while Clinton was in office. You won't be able to, because this kind of negative drum beat economic reporting is reserved for GOP presidencies.
Hey Balboa!
January 25, 2008 - 11:25 ET by sentforth5I think Mr. Bush is a liberal in many ways....it's not that he stands to gain anything, he is just that way. He also says he is a Christian, but he is a one-worlder. He says that our safety is paramount, but he endorses open borders...the guy got my vote twice, but I won't miss him.
1) If we're in such great
January 25, 2008 - 11:48 ET by Evil Capitalist1) If we're in such great shape why is Bush giving out tax rebates?
Because we have dem congress and president that can't speak. Anyone who stands on a way of free money will not be re-elected.
4) As a group, black people buy domestic goods. How could this be bad for the economy?
Stimulating economy by stimulating consumers is utterly stupid.
bookmark it folks
January 25, 2008 - 09:49 ET by candanceWe have a liberal on record saying taking money from the government to spend in the private sector is the best way to boost an economy.
Even if he did make an elitist, bigoted remark to get his point across. I thought no one was ever allowed to criticize the Katrina victims? Wasn't that ALL Bush's fault?
Reparations???? FOR
January 25, 2008 - 10:14 ET by BDReparations???? FOR WHAT!!!!!!
Paying money to Katrina Survivors...FOR WHAT!!!!!!!!
Reparations???? FOR
January 25, 2008 - 10:30 ET by DontFeedTheTrollsReparations???? FOR WHAT!!!!!!
Why, for slavery, of course. You see, some 6 to 10 thousand years ago, people from what is now called Africa enslaved all the peoples of what is now known as the Middle East, starting the modern slavery industry. So their descendents are now obligated to pay them reparations in some peoples minds. Of course, some misinformed peoples think this is somehow all the modern white man's fault.
D
Keep the ILLEGALS out, join NumbersUSA to send free faxes to your reps.
Aha! Also, you forgot the
January 25, 2008 - 10:36 ET by BDAha!
Also, you forgot the fact that the people of the British Isles were regularly hauled off on ships and enslaved by people from North Africa up until the Normans reversed the process..
As a sailor, I want to protest
January 25, 2008 - 11:12 ET by RJthe impressment of my spiritual brothers into inhuman conditions on the high seas. They were forcibly removed from their families, stolen from the streets of cities, and enslaved on ships...where they were fed barely edible food, regularly beaten with whips, forced to suffer constant indignities, and even murdered.
But my outrage can be bought off with a nice 30-footer.....I would sail the seas in their memory.....
History of slavery
January 25, 2008 - 12:49 ET by LionKingCorrect me if I am wrong, but I thought slavery was the result of one African tribe enslaving another and selling them to traders heading to various colonies around the world.
LK, Which obviously makes
January 25, 2008 - 12:52 ET by LeonLK,
Which obviously makes America's long history of slavery (even after everyone else prohibited the practice) their fault and not ours.
*end sarcasm*
Or, if you look to the very root of the word "slave"
January 25, 2008 - 12:56 ET by sarcasmoIt's all the Russians' fault.
JMR
Rally online with fans of Dr. Ron Paul. (All purpose anti-slander-link, sadly-needed these days...)
Leon...
January 25, 2008 - 12:59 ET by LionKingDid I blame anyone? All I said was it started there.
Did I excuse or justify slavery?
Once again, you try to engage in intellect, but sadly, you come unarmed.
LK,Sure looked like
January 25, 2008 - 13:06 ET by LeonLK,
I'll accept your statement.
But you do realize that there was rampant slavery in the Middle East well before the stuff in Africa started happening, right?
The style of slavery that you're talking about didn't start until the late 1500s.
Alan...er, Leon...
January 25, 2008 - 13:07 ET by LionKingI was merely pointing out that if reparations are required, then reparations should be sought from all responsible.
You lefties, though, only want to rob from the most convenient.
[Fortunately, my ancestors had no involvment with slavery.]
LK, You clearly didn't
January 25, 2008 - 13:11 ET by LeonLK,
You clearly didn't read this thread.
I never claimed that reparations were warranted.
LEON ???
January 25, 2008 - 13:15 ET by LionKingI did read the thread. Clearly, I responded to DFTT's post and not yours. You chose to get involved in this subthread merely demonstrate your troll qualities.
For example, you did not respond to anything I said in your last post. All you said was that I did not read the thread. Why bring that up after a long series of exchanges...in true troll form, you go off topic once you have lost the argument.
Sayonara!!!
LK, You said: You
January 25, 2008 - 13:18 ET by LeonLK,
You said:
You lefties, though, only want to rob from the most convenient.
I retorted that I never said reparations were warranted, so your post was worthless.
Take it easy. Furthermore, interesting side note, you don't actually believe that slavery didn't exist until Africans started catching each other to sell to the colonies do you?
You're clearly not a religious man, b/c anyone who is knows there was rampant slavery in the middle east welllll before Africans started coming to colonies.
Leon...
January 25, 2008 - 13:25 ET by LionKingWhat does middle-Eastern slavery have to do with a discussion about reparations? Nothing.
Moses lead the Jews out of slavery from Egypt. WOW!!!
Somewhere along the way I halfway expected you to try and make a point.
LK, What does the middle
January 25, 2008 - 13:27 ET by LeonLK,
What does the middle east have to do with a discussion about reparations?
Nothing (which is why DFTT's original post was absurd), but it was the entire point of the post you responded to. Remember?
Reparations???? FOR
January 25, 2008 - 10:30 ET by DontFeedTheTrolls
Reparations???? FOR WHAT!!!!!!
Why, for slavery, of course. You see, some 6 to 10 thousand years ago, people from what is now called Africa enslaved all the peoples of what is now known as the Middle East, starting the modern slavery industry. So their descendents are now obligated to pay them reparations in some peoples minds. Of course, some misinformed peoples think this is somehow all the modern white man's fault.
You have the memory of a Gold Fish.
You then replied to this post saying correct you if you were wrong, but didn't slavery start in Africa with Africans catching each other to send to the colonies.
Leon...TROLL-away
January 25, 2008 - 13:32 ET by LionKingLeon...you truly are sad. All you've got for your arguments is taking things out of context. Typical liberal approach. You never refute anything, just try to twist it. You lose, again.
No you revert to calling DFTT's comment absurd. You are the biggest joke on NB.
Thanks for playing along...everyone enjoys your liberal lunacy.
btw, you still never made a point and truly proved yourself to be a TROLL.
LionKing, Wow. Your lack
January 25, 2008 - 14:48 ET by LeonLionKing,
Wow. Your lack of ability to follow a conversation is startling.
Phew.
Let's take a look at the past few posts:
1) You said you responded to DFTTs post about middle eastern slavery
2) Your repsone was that you thought slavery didn't actually start in the Middle East, but rather it started in Africa when people started sending Africans to the colonies
3) You then said what does Middle Eastern slavery have to do with reparations.
4) I said Nothing, which is why DFTT's original post was absurd. It wasn't absurd b/c he was wrong, it was absurd b/c it was irrelevant, as you pointed out
5) You claim I took things out of context, which is wrong.
You're confused. Slow down. Take a deep breath. You'll see you somehow lost all sense of what was going on. It's cool I understand. It's hard to keep 5 consecutive posts organized in your brain.
Leon...keep it context
January 25, 2008 - 14:54 ET by LionKingAll discussions about reparations are for the descendants of African slaves. All I said was that the start of that slave movement started with Africans enslaving other Africans.
I am sorry you are so dense, but I am not surprised.
[If I could, I would use singles syllable words for you so that you might comprehend. It is obvious that you cannot follow something contextually or purposely try to get off track.
btw, you still never made a point except to prove that you are a TROLL. ]
LK, Whatever gets you
January 25, 2008 - 14:58 ET by LeonLK,
Whatever gets you through the night.
but didn't slavery start
January 25, 2008 - 13:40 ET by Jack BauerErrr, no.
Poor Alan. He's getting
January 25, 2008 - 13:52 ET by Roger the ShrubberPoor Alan. He's getting knocked around like a little rag doll today.
Rog and Jack, Completely
January 25, 2008 - 14:41 ET by LeonRog and Jack,
Completely devoid of reading comprehension. I was repeating what Lion King said earlier in reply to DontFeedTheTrolls.
Read my statement again, since you failed to do so the first time:
You [as in the guy I'm replying to, as in Lion King] then replied to this post saying correct you if you were wrong, but didn't slavery start in Africa with Africans catching each other to send to the colonies.
See:
History of slavery
January 25, 2008 - 12:49 ET by LionKing
Correct me if I am wrong, but I thought slavery was the result of one African tribe enslaving another and selling them to traders heading to various colonies around the world.
If you had actually read what you were commenting on, you would have realized I was simply repeating the king of lions.
So sweet attack. Apologies will be accepted at any time.
PS God Rog you're so desperate! Let me guess, your old lady's bottom teeth finally fell out, now you got nothing. Well, don't take it out on me. I didn't force you to live in Pennsyltucky.
Hey hey hey .... Be
January 25, 2008 - 14:46 ET by bigtimerHey hey hey ....
Be careful little one...your giving yourself away here...hater always had an obsession of women and no teeth...
I remember that well Leon.
LMAO...
bigtimer
January 25, 2008 - 14:53 ET by candance...as long as they're not fat. That would just be downright repulsive.
No applause, please. I now must go act like a Leon and pretend to - I mean do some work.
Candance, That goes
January 25, 2008 - 14:57 ET by LeonCandance,
That goes without saying.
No Fat Chicks for Leon.
Man, just thinking about a fat toothless chick makes me want to vomit.
That's right. i believe
January 25, 2008 - 17:01 ET by Roger the ShrubberThat's right. i believe that your past statement is "fat chicks are only good for black guys", right, Hater?
BT,It's a common joke
January 25, 2008 - 14:56 ET by LeonBT,
It's a common joke about the all the hicks west of the greater Philadelphia area.
Aka Pennsyltucky.
Out there you're a lucky man if your girl has her bottom teeth, b/c most have none.
Wow. I think I am going to
January 25, 2008 - 16:59 ET by Roger the ShrubberWow. I think I am going to cry. Little Leon lashes out in rage!
We all now know you have nothing left in the tank. What's next? Will you call me a d**k in another PM? Ooooo Leon, don't hold back!
The rebate
January 25, 2008 - 10:31 ET by KC MulvilleI have to admit, although I love the idea of more money in my pocket, I'm not so sure about the rebate. I don't believe in reparations, but Leon brings up a point worth considering. Maybe this rebate is a bad idea.
The rebate is a gamble. The only way the gamble will pay off, as Leon correctly argues, is if consumers spend that money on consumer goods.
Instead of risking the chance that people might put the rebate money in the wrong place, how about this? The government will give you money only for purchases. If you don't buy anything, you don't get anything, but you get $800 credit for actual purchases. The poor would have money to buy food for a month, and that can't be a bad thing.
Since internet buyers could register the credit immediately, online buying would skyrocket. Shipping companies would profit. It could be a stir that turns into a hurricane.
By the way, Leon is half
January 25, 2008 - 10:45 ET by motherbeltBy the way, Leon is half right. Pat Moyhinan's study of poverty in the
1960s showed an identifiable pattern. When poor people get a windfall
of money, they don't save it. They spend it, on the theory that they
don't think they'll ever get the chance to blow money again, so they
figure they might as well have some fun while they have a chance.
However, that's not a racial syndrome -- it's true for all poor people,
whatever their race.
KC, no one is arguing about the truth of what Leon says. The issue is the political incorrectness of saying it out loud.
If a conservative in public life said that today, he would be banished to the outer darness, even if he had iron-clad proof. It's just not "done."
I submit that if Moynihan had published his study on the black family in the 90's he would have been pilloried.
Probably right
January 25, 2008 - 10:58 ET by KC MulvilleI suppose the rebate also bothers me because we're depending on the poor to behave in a way that reinforces their poverty. I know what the economic implications are, but I'm still trying to figure out where the moral argument is. Still debating in my own mind, and as usual, both sides are losing ...
An ABC Radio News report
January 25, 2008 - 11:53 ET by Chris NormanAn ABC Radio News report addressed this very same thing. They interviewed several people who said that they would use the money to pay off bills or save it (of course, that's what people always say). Then the reporter came back on and said that was what the government was worried about: trying to get people to actually spend the money. I suppose the government could give the money to the army and they could deploy several brigades of soldiers into the malls for a giant shopping spree.
Leon,
January 25, 2008 - 11:18 ET by R D HelmAhh, you forgot the forays to the various strip clubs.
And you are partly correct about the economy. Tax breaks (unless they target small-business owners, who employ 75% of the workforce) and hand-outs aren't going to make the economy better. Neither are people sitting at home on their fat behinds, going to the mailbox every thirty days to get a check. In fact, they will only make it worse.
What we need is meaningful, across-the-board tax reform.
We have to stop punishing productivity in this country.
None are so hopelessly enslaved as those who falsely believe they are free. -J.W. von Goethe
The New York Times endorses...
January 25, 2008 - 09:43 ET by BruzillaHillary Clinton and John McCain. What more needs to be said about McCain?
McCain's "Great" Endorsements
January 25, 2008 - 10:17 ET by PopularTechYep, McCain has some great endorsements going on here...
Juan Hernandez, Open borders Advocate Endorses McCain (HotAir)
Republicans for Al Gore (Environmental Protection) Endorses McCain (Press Release)
The New York Times Endorses John McCain (Reuters)
The Anti "Man-Made" Global Warming Resource
Re: Noonan's assertions
January 25, 2008 - 10:46 ET by motherbeltIs she right on either or both counts?
I think she is right on both. Bush really did "sunder" the party along the lines that she described, especially on immigration.
This was evident after losing the Congress, when he seemed happy to have a Democrat-led Congress, because he might be able to get his immigration plan through. I think that is the issue that splits him from Republicans more deeply than any other.
And there isn't anything to add to what she said about the Clintons and the Democrat party.
motherbelt,
January 25, 2008 - 11:25 ET by R D HelmJust finished Noonan's column. I agree 100% with her assertions about Mr. Bush. He has been a didaster for conservatism and the republican party. To be honest, he hasn't been all that great for the country, either. The exception here is his early recognition of the real dangers the Islamo-supremecists are to this country, but he seems to have somewhat abandoned that as well.
After all, he has been the head of the party for over seven years now. It looks as if we were hornswaggled-not that some of us did not see this coming.
None are so hopelessly enslaved as those who falsely believe they are free. -J.W. von Goethe
"After all, he has been the
January 25, 2008 - 12:41 ET by Chris Norman"After all, he has been the head of the party for over seven years now."
That's the problem. Bush and other have no strong conservative principles to guide them. Without those principles, all that's left is personal loyalty to a transitory figure - and, by definition, you can't build a lasting party on that.
3Com: China connection no risk to national security
January 25, 2008 - 09:46 ET by PopularTech3Com: China connection no risk to national security (ZDNet)
Duncan Hunter might want to do some more research before making ridiculous demands about Romney who left the company in 1999. Hunter has apparently been on this since November. Too bad he has nobody on his team who actually understands computer systems or computer security.
The Anti "Man-Made" Global Warming Resource
The Bush Whitehouse has
January 25, 2008 - 09:58 ET by USA4freedomThe Bush Whitehouse has done a lot of damage to the conservative movement. A large issue is the immigration problem. I don’t get it, why would we turn over our sovereignty to Mexico or the UN.
I don’t think that Mc Cain can win super Tuesday. I think that the conservatives that would have backed Fred will go to Mitt.
If Mc Cain does win, then the Democrats will automatically win either way. If he gets the nod, then Conservatives will stay home in droves. If some how he gets in, then liberals get what they want tax increases,bigger government, national health care (from the people that cant run theDMV), Mc Cain/Feingold, Mc Cain/ Kennedy, Mc Cain/ Lieberman. The will to destroy our economy over so called global warming. Don’t worry, there is acountry that is doing all of this for the most part, its called France. Look how well it is working there.
I wrote two articles on the same thing:
http://www.theconservativevoice.com/article/25580.html
http://www.theconservativevoice.com/articles/article.html?id=27088
I think that Clinton has hurt but not as much as Bush. (or it looks that way to me, maybe its more personal.)
These are the boys of Pointe du Hoc. Ronald Reagan- 40th Anniversary of D-Day
Them's Fightin' Words
January 25, 2008 - 11:21 ET by TinianAbout a year ago I got banninated from Free Republic for making the same basic points about Bush and Hunter. Since FR is now overrun by Paulians I don't miss going there anymore!
Duncan Hunter was as big a panderer as the Huckster. He loved to lie to the protectionist/isolationist kooks and they'd eat it up. Every week Hunter would come up with some new item that "only one factory in America" could produce. If you check out his claims you'll find out they're a bunch of lies, but lies about the kind of things "real conservatives" cared about. I made lots of DH fans very mad, but I could see right through his schtick. I'm not the least bit surprised he endorsed the Huckster.
As for Bush -- he certainly set off the shrill shriekers (like Malkin) and other talking heads. That was good in the case of the Harriet Miers nomination, but I think their constant screeching damaged the GOP as much or worse than Bush. After Bush caved on unionizing the TSA I knew the game was over and we couldn't expect much conservatism from him. We at least had a GOP House and Senate, so I figured things couldn't get too bad. But the shriekers helped demoralize the GOP to the point that we no longer even have that. No more decent judges. Thank God the "assault" weapons ban sunseted before 2006 -- I swear Bush would've signed it permanently into law if a Democrat congress had sent him such a bill. So yeah, Bush had lots of shortcomings but the drama queen pundits can share much of the guilt for what's happened to the GOP.
Wild Bill is on all Channels
January 25, 2008 - 09:52 ET by JayTeeI surfed TV channels a little last nite, and everywhere I went, there was Bill Clinton. Tha boy was all over the TV news.
PBS, CNN, MSNBC, FOX ABC, CBS.......WOW !
The MSM really loves tha boy.
"Barack Obama is a Powerful Speaker—And so is My Bose Bass Amp" Doug Giles
Topic of the Day
January 25, 2008 - 09:54 ET by DyneShe's certainly right about Bush. Bush single-handedly destroyed everything the Republican party once stood for: Limited government, non-interventionalism, and national sovereignty. People were leaving the Party in droves over this summer's amnesty fiasco and a good number of people I've spoken with personally plan to leave the Party if their nominee doesn't win the primaries or are only staying in long enough to vote for Ron Paul.
She's only half-right about Bill. While Bill isn't destroying what the Democratic party stands for he's certainly doing a good job turning party members away from him and Hitlery. The Party's "values" remain the same.
"Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them." -Matthew 7:20
okay Dyne
January 25, 2008 - 09:56 ET by candanceEverything circles back to whining about Ron Paul. You're a libertarian. We get it.
Okay, since you would not
January 25, 2008 - 10:32 ET by BDOkay, since you would not reply to my drubbing yesterday, let us get it on today.
1.) Bush single-handedly destroyed everything the Republican party once stood for: Limited government,
So, Ronald Reagan did not spend money beyond the limited government goals? Oooops. Shack 1.
2.) non-interventionalism, national sovereignty
Ronald Reagan did not invade Grenada, Lebanon, Support El Salvador? Contra support in Honduras and Nicaragua? So much for non interventionism. Shack 2 & 3.
DYNE is DOWN!!!!!!!
Both parties have been
January 25, 2008 - 10:00 ET by MidAmericaBoth parties have been leaderless for years. Winning an election is not the same as being a leader. Neither clinton or President Bush have set out a long term visions of where their parties should lead the nation. That coupled with a lack of leaders/visionaries in congress has led to the present condition of unease in the general public and is reflected in polls that say the nation is headed in the wrong direction. But I think what the people intend to say is that we don't know where we are headed. Blindly rushing into the unknown is not comforting.
Watch out Chuck Norris
January 25, 2008 - 10:01 ET by shawn228Here comes Rambo!!
Romney five years ago
Shawn - what is your point with Romney 5 years ago?
January 25, 2008 - 10:42 ET by Dee BunkWhy didn't you show this vid that explains his position today and speaks to that video?
Mitt on
Abortion
I used to be pro-choice also and now I'm not. He explains that he changed and why he changed and it was before this run for President.
Are you angry that he changed his position because you are Pro-choice or are you Pro-life? I think there are many many people like Romney and I who have changed their position after gaining more knowledge. I'd be much more concerned with a flip-flop the other way (Like Dick Durban) because more knowledge (rather than propaganda) will always lead people towards the life position.
Mitt's postion on abortion...
January 25, 2008 - 12:32 ET by vrwc13His church's stance on abortion:
"In response to this liberalization of abortion access, Harold B. Lee, N. Eldon Tanner, & Marion G. Romney of the Church of Jesus Christ and Latter-day Saints' First Presidency issued a statement on abortion in 1973. 3 It restated the historical LDS Church's position on abortion.
"The Church opposes abortion and counsels its members not to submit to or perform an abortion except in the rare cases where, in the opinion of competent medical counsel, the life or good health of the mother is seriously endangered or where the pregnancy was caused by rape and produces serious emotional trauma in the mother. Even then it should be done only after counseling with the local presiding priesthood authority and after receiving divine confirmation through prayer."
"Abortion must be considered one of the most revolting and sinful practices in this day, when we are witnessing the frightening evidence of permissiveness leading to sexual immorality."
"Members of the Church guilty of being parties to the sin of abortion must be subjected to the disciplinary action of the councils of the Church as circumstances warrant. In dealing with this serious matter, it would be well to keep in mind the word of the Lord stated in the 59th section of the Doctrine and Covenants, verse 6, 'Thou shalt not steal; neither commit adultery, nor kill, nor do anything like unto it'." [Bold emphasis ours] 3,4
The Doctrine and Covenants is one of the four Mormon "Standard Works." These are source texts which most Mormon denominations believe are divinely inspired and authoritative scripture. The other three are the Bible itself, the Book of Mormon and the Pearl of Great Price."
http://www.religious...
...as a family man and devout Mormon, how could he ever had supported abortion. Was it because in MA he needed a more liberal stance?
And now as a republican candidate he needs a more conservative one?
So what does he really believe? And if he can change his opinion on this crucial issue, how do we trust him on other important issues?
v
"Information is the currency of democracy." - Thomas Jefferson
Vrwc12+1 Mitts postion on Abortion is Obvious
January 25, 2008 - 12:35 ET by JayTeeMitts position on Abortion is ....is.......His Kids !! What, he has 4 or 5 kids ?
I've lost count on Mitt's position.........but it's obvious to the most Casual Observer.
"Barack Obama is a Powerful Speaker—And so is My Bose Bass Amp" Doug Giles
→ Jay Tee
January 25, 2008 - 12:56 ET by Cool ArrowMy parents had 12 children. We were Catholic. The joke we heard from sympathizers was our parents didn't have a TV.
We didn't know we needed sympathy or that we just existed because our parents didn't believe in abortion.
I think you just insulted Mitt's kids.
♣ a seal
Give me a break Cool spear...
January 25, 2008 - 13:17 ET by JayTeeThere are other ways of avoiding pregnancy in the mordern world....
even the Catholics know this and teach it....
and once armed with this information and you still choose 5 or 12 kids, means you don't believe in Abortions...in my book.
I'm sitting here with 4 kids, and the last one was because of bad timing.....but he still arrived via a Pro-life position...which I figure is also Mitts position, and I figure I don't have to watch/listen to MSM to figure it out.
"Barack Obama is a Powerful Speaker—And so is My Bose Bass Amp" Doug Giles
There are other ways of
January 25, 2008 - 13:20 ET by balboaThere are other ways of avoiding pregnancy in the mordern world....
even the Catholics know this and teach it....
Are you talking about the fabulously effective rhythm method?
→ bal
January 25, 2008 - 13:26 ET by Cool ArrowJudging from its effectiveness, one would need to be a mathmatician to keep up. Perhaps a log-o-rhythm?
♣ a seal
I always figured you had to
January 25, 2008 - 13:32 ET by balboaI always figured you had to be able to dance to make the rhythm method effective. Navin R. Johnson learned that lesson.
Yes Balboa....the Catholic option
January 25, 2008 - 13:58 ET by JayTeeRhythm and Blues
JayTee, Doesn't donating
January 25, 2008 - 13:23 ET by LeonJayTee,
Doesn't donating money to abortion groups and saying publicly that you support a woman's right to choose, mean that you support abortion?
Who cares how many kids he has? His support of abortion is well-documented and indisputable.
Leon...a guv can't go against the law of the land
January 25, 2008 - 14:02 ET by JayTeeHe's a politician in the Governor's mansion, enforcing the laws of the Land......he seems to be Pro-Life at home, being a mormon counts for something in the Abortion Question..unless you want to ID him as a BAD Mormon....which you would have no idea about.
What's it to you Leon? You are pro-choice aren't you?
January 25, 2008 - 14:06 ET by Dee BunkIf you really thought Romney was then you'd be happy about it. The very fact that you sit here criticizing him shows that you are worried about his pro-life stance.
→ OK
January 25, 2008 - 13:24 ET by Cool ArrowGuess I took your comment wrong.
♣ a seal
Jay Tee ???
January 25, 2008 - 13:00 ET by LionKingAre you really trying to say that because Romney has children that means he is against abortion?
Many pro-choicers have children.
I'm saying it is an INDICATOR..a BIG one
January 25, 2008 - 13:21 ET by JayTee5 kids means you WANT kids....1 Child and out (aka Chelsea) means a tendency to NOT want any more.
There could be other Reasons......but raising 5 kids is a committment that cannot be ignored in evaluating his Abortion postion ....what he did at home, overrules what State laws of Mass. were in effect when he took office.
5 Kids COUNT towards a tendency to be Pro-LIFE...and carries a Veto of any other shallow discussions of "Mitt is Pro-Choice".
"Barack Obama is a Powerful Speaker—And so is My Bose Bass Amp" Doug Giles
BHO has children
January 25, 2008 - 13:21 ET by LionKingBarak Obama has children...he is big pro-abortion.
Lion prince Barrakanack does not have 5
January 25, 2008 - 13:47 ET by JayTeeIf Barrackanack has more kids, I might give him some slack.....
"Barack Obama is a Powerful Speaker—And so is My Bose Bass Amp" Doug Giles
that's a weak assumption JT
January 25, 2008 - 13:38 ET by candanceMy sister in law gives money to Planned Parenthood all the time and she has three kids. Many, many rich families with several children are pro choice because they want to save "those poor teen girls who have nowhere to turn."
John and Lizzie Edwards had four children together and one died.
Rosie O'Donnell has adopted five children.
Harry Reid has five children.
Nancy Pelosi has five children.
Canadance ..These things can be explained
January 25, 2008 - 13:56 ET by JayTeePro_Choice doesn't explain everything.....
John and Lizzie Edwards had four children together and one died. Some people aren't smart enough to know what causes 'em
Rosie O'Donnell has adopted five children. Lifestyle and looks pre-empts exposure.
Harry Reid has five children. He's a Mormon and does not practice in Congress what he preaches at home.
Nancy Pelosi has five children. See John Edwards above, Plus she's Pro-Choice while respresenting the Gay community of San Fran....a no risk position on minimum risk situation...who would build an Abortion clinic in a Gay Community ?
Seriously, The majority of people with 5 kids would have a hard time convincing me they are Pro-Choice...unless the Choice is LIFE....and that goes for accusations against Mitt that he's Pro-Choice...I ain't buying that.
"Barack Obama is a Powerful Speaker—And so is My Bose Bass Amp" Doug Giles
What JayTee
January 25, 2008 - 14:00 ET by candanceJohn and Lizzie Edwards weren't smart enough to know where babies come from? Why? Because they talk with a southern accent? You do know John Edwards graduated from UNC?
I'm usually not an "emotion-feeding" whiner, but that snide remark was over the line.
I'm the youngest of nine and my dad was a Democrat. I guess they were too stupid to stop as well.
→ candance
January 25, 2008 - 14:10 ET by Cool Arrowas the 5th of 12, we've heard these jokes all of our lives, haven't we.
Can't count how many times we felt insulted by the "playful joshing" of others.
♣ a seal
oh yeah cool
January 25, 2008 - 14:20 ET by candancePeople always have three standard lines:
1) Are you Catholic?
2) Are you Mormon?
3) Your parents didn't know when to stop.
It gets old by the time you're 10.
Apparently Mitt Romney's five children are proof he is intelligent and pro-life, but John Edwards having four children is proof he's just stupid.
LOL..Candance...
January 25, 2008 - 14:21 ET by JayTeeSlamming Edwards is in NO way a "Southern" condemnation across the board, nor would it include the UNC in a Slam...especially by me(The Mouth from the South).
I never implied, nor hinted, that you were Stupid....so relax. Obviously there are Democrats that are Pro-life, a lot more than 20 yrs ago as recent reductions in Abortions indicate.
Edwards isn't Smart enough to know a lot of things, and this was probably on the list.
please JayTee
January 25, 2008 - 14:23 ET by candanceI know you never called me stupid.
Still, your reasoning stands the same as before:
prolifer with babies = smart and compassionate.
prochoicer with babies = stupid.
Candance...you're close
January 25, 2008 - 14:40 ET by JayTeeGiven the vast conflicting information/voting record about Mitt (or any other politician) and whether he is Pro life or Pro Choice, one has to go to their personal Record of how they Live their lives.
And Sitting at home with 5 kids pushes the probability to over 50% that MITT seems to have lived a Pro-LIFE Life. Now there is obviously another 20% probability that this isn't true. But in the presence of conflicted propaganda on both sides....I choose to believe 5 kids are very good INDICATORS of a Pro-Life Stance...regardless of voting record at State/Fed level, and that goes for Harry Reid also.
So, to Recap your post below:
prolifer with babies = smart and compassionate. --Yes
prochoicer with babies = stupid. --YES, although pro choice = Stupid without the qualifier
More obfuscation
January 25, 2008 - 12:48 ET by RJHow about a little honesty, vrwc? Your obsessed and repetitive posts are just a smoke screen to hide the truth of your real motivation.
You've stated that, simply because he's a Mormon, you would never vote for Romney. The rest is just a phony attempt to justify yourself.
RJ - it's really sad that with all of the abuse Christians take
January 25, 2008 - 13:00 ET by Dee Bunkfor their faith, that any of them would condemn someone for the peaceful practice of their own faith. It's understandable when liberals condemn him for it, just as they do anyone who has true religious faith.
that any of them would condemn someone for the peaceful practice
January 25, 2008 - 13:17 ET by vrwc13John 3:18
Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son.
John 3:17-19
Galatians 1:9
As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let him be eternally condemned!
Galatians 1:8-10
Dee, I don't condemn anyone, that's God's job per above. I just shine the light on the truth for others to see.
v
The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. He is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance. 2 Peter 3:9
Vrwc - Romney isn't preaching - you are
January 25, 2008 - 13:34 ET by Dee BunkVrwc - Romney isn't preaching - you are. He has not preached his faith at all. Politics and religion are seperate and you better figure out a way to seperate them or else you and others like you are going to cause none of us to be free to practice what we believe in. It's fundemental to this country to not be condemed for your religious beliefs. Liberals are trying to do away with faith and people like you are helping them succeed.
There is nothing wrong with preaching gospel in a non political context, but your bible quotes are comletely irrelevant to any discussion on Presidential politics and are not appropriate on Newsbusters at all.
Politics and religion are seperate?
January 25, 2008 - 13:45 ET by vrwc13What world do you live in?
Our founding fathers infused religion into the Constution,
Washington D.C. has numerous "religious" markings, and many of the world's conflicts on religion driven.
btw: how many of our presidents have been atheists, Buddhist, etc.
Our country is based on Judeo/Christian principles and laws.
Politics and religion are separate? Don't think so.
v
Neither did he:
The reason that Christianity is the best friend of government is because Christianity is the only religion that changes the heart.
Thomas Jefferson
→ RJ
January 25, 2008 - 13:07 ET by Cool ArrowImmediately in there with the attack again.
"just a phony attempt to justify yourself."
Or does this pass for civil discourse?
♣ a seal
Cool, RJ has three responses when he doesn't like your post...
January 25, 2008 - 13:23 ET by vrwc13a)semantic dancing
b) call you a bigot (kind of ironic)
c) insult you
...that's why you will see me now only respond to him if his post avoids the above and includes some kind of substance.
v
But evil people and impostors will flourish. They will deceive others and will themselves be deceived. 2 Timothy 3:13
So glad someone on the
January 25, 2008 - 13:24 ET by balboaSo glad someone on the other side of the fence noticed this. :-)
→ bal
January 25, 2008 - 13:30 ET by Cool ArrowIt took me a while. I'm a little slow.
♣ a seal
balboa - are you actually alligning yourself with the religious
January 25, 2008 - 13:37 ET by Dee Bunkwarriors who want to send all of us who don't believe their version of the gospel to hell? Politics do make strange bedfellows that is for sure.
→ Dee Bunk
January 25, 2008 - 13:41 ET by Cool ArrowThat's unfair.
♣ a seal
I thought I was aligning
January 25, 2008 - 13:41 ET by balboaI thought I was aligning myself with People Who Are Annoyed at RJ's Tactics.
And you like their tactics?
January 25, 2008 - 13:51 ET by Dee BunkAnd you like their tactics?
Dee Bunk
January 25, 2008 - 14:04 ET by Cool ArrowIs it your position personal attacks are acceptable as long as they come from individuals with whom you agree, and are directed at someone with whom you don't?
Why play that game?
♣ a seal
What "tactics" are those, bal?
January 25, 2008 - 17:54 ET by RJAgain, I suppose it would be too much to ask for examples? It couldn't be, could it, that making unsubstantiated charges is your tactic? ....nah
boa... We all have our
January 25, 2008 - 13:57 ET by bigtimerboa...
We all have our tactics here now don't we.
vr has been cramming Huck down our throats using religion and religion against Romney and the Mormon religion for months and months now....even when RJ was gone for awhile, if you remember back he was doing this along with Debra...that's about the time RJ came back after an absence...so you take it from there.
It hasn't been just one-sided here...at all.
vr has been cramming Huck down our throats...
January 25, 2008 - 14:02 ET by vrwc13...just trying to add some balance...
and truth...
http://www.realclear...
btw: "cramming down our throats" would be more like your buddy PopTech and his obnoxious, repetative rants.
v
"Information is the currency of democracy." - Thomas Jefferson
vr... Repetitive fits
January 25, 2008 - 14:10 ET by bigtimervr...
Repetitive fits you...perfectly.
I'm done with this...just tired of this ganging on RJ...I saw you copy WTH switching RJ's initials yesterday, then complaing about it...that took a lot of nerve.
btw...wonder who you are going to pick after the Huckster is gone...which won't be long now.
BT: then complaing about it...?
January 25, 2008 - 14:14 ET by vrwc13"...then complaing about it"...
...not true. You must have me confused with one of the other "3 Amigos".
v
"…you are entitled to your own opinion, but you are not entitled to your own facts." -the late Daniel Patrick Moynihan.
"...religious warriors who want to send all of us... to hell?"
January 25, 2008 - 13:50 ET by vrwc13Sorry, "we" don't send anyone...
Dee, the Bible says you yourself chose heaven or hell. No one else decides for you.
And no Bible verse this time, unless of course you need help finding it.
v
The reason that Christianity is the best friend of government is because Christianity is the only religion that changes the heart.
Thomas Jefferson
blah blah blah - of course you don't
January 25, 2008 - 13:53 ET by Dee Bunkblah blah blah - of course you don't
Hey bal, want to back that up?
January 25, 2008 - 16:23 ET by RJSince vrwc REFUSES to explain what the heck he means by that repetitive post, and since he NEVER answers direct questions (I think vrwc is expecting that the Holy Spirit will visit us and give answers to his mysterious messages), maybe you can become his earthly mouthpiece.
In any event, you've said you agree with whatever he said, so how about explaining why you do....or was that just another of your cheap, snarky shots that you run from when confronted?
No thanks. A no-win
January 25, 2008 - 16:26 ET by balboaNo thanks. A no-win situation.
Then why slide in with a snarky comment, bal?
January 25, 2008 - 16:46 ET by RJ....but that's exactly what I expected of you....a spineless, late-hit pile-on.
C'mon. Late hits make you
January 25, 2008 - 16:49 ET by balboaC'mon. Late hits make you tough, and pile-ons are fun.
I was letting vrwc know that I agreed with him.
But WHAT were you agreeing with, bal?
January 25, 2008 - 16:58 ET by RJvrwc made no rational point. That post is just something he repeats over and over, without explanation. Since you "agree" with him, how about being a big boy and share what he means by it and why you agree?
But, truth be told, I suspect the only thing you agreed with was the opportunity to side with vrwc against me. That would fit your late-hit, pile-on philosophy.
Wow, you're really going to
January 25, 2008 - 17:02 ET by balboaWow, you're really going to make me cut-and-paste this? OK:
RJ has three responses when he doesn't like your post...
a)semantic dancing
b) call you a bigot (kind of ironic)
c) insult you
...that's why you will see me now only respond to him if his post avoids the above and includes some kind of substance.
The only thing I'd disagree with is I don't think you've ever used the bigot line on me.
Are you really pretending to make that argument, bal?
January 25, 2008 - 17:34 ET by RJI suppose it would be a waste of time to ask for even one example where I resort to semantic dancing or insults "because" I dislike your post.
Yeah, that's what I thought.
Well, I will say that you and vrwc have more in common than I suspected: neither of you offer much in the way of substantive posts and both of you duck when challenged to back up what you've said.
"...but that's exactly what
January 25, 2008 - 20:04 ET by balboa"...but that's exactly what I expected of you....a spineless, late-hit pile-on."
Nice try, bal, but once again no cigar
January 25, 2008 - 20:25 ET by RJThat was my post to you after you first "piled on with a late hit" that you "agreed" with vrwc's attack...and then tried to remain above the fray, spinelessly refusing to say just what you agreed with. An appropriate and succinct post.
I told you this was
January 25, 2008 - 22:00 ET by balboaI told you this was pointless.
Your snarky leg humping often is, bal.
January 26, 2008 - 08:23 ET by RJ"He was a would-be sharp operator who lacked for the satisfaction of his ambition only the quality of sharpness..." -Michael Chabon, "Gentlemen of the Road"
Yes, Cool, vrwc IS phony.
January 25, 2008 - 18:14 ET by RJYou may not like the judgment, but that doesn't make it less true. Are his obsessive attacks on Romney "civil discourse?"
When you take into consideration his assertion that he would not vote for Romney because he's a Mormon, everything else he says is suspect. His refusal to give full disclosure about his motivations makes his efforts phony.
→ RJ
January 26, 2008 - 10:53 ET by Cool ArrowI fail to see how a person's stated stand "he would not vote for Romney because he's a Mormon", followed by an anti-Romney because he's Mormon post, is phony. Mind you, I am not aware of the quote you reference.
Seems to me the latter post is in keeping with the previous post.
Sounds to me like an opposing view rather than "phony".
Your disagreement with him, however vehement, does not make him a phony.
♣ a seal
That's just one of those things we'll have to disagree on, Cool
January 26, 2008 - 11:10 ET by RJSince you're not familiar with his original proclamation, just notice that he doesn't deny it when I, or others, bring it up.
In my opinion, his disguised underlying reason for disliking Romney, combined with his rabidly obsessive anti-Romney postings, is prima facie evidence of disingenuousness. Ergo, phony.
"I really like Mike Huckabee." -uber lib Mika Brezinski
→ RJ
January 26, 2008 - 11:33 ET by Cool ArrowHaving given his word at least once to support a "woman's right to choose" Romney's flip flop on abortion is something he'll have to live with until such time as he is presented the opportunity to demonstrate otherwise.
It's my hope that soon after he is elected he gets the chance to "once and for all" show his was a genuine epiphany as he's indicated. I'm one of those people who like to think that falling scaffolding was a heavenly wakeup call to S.D O'connor.
Maybe other Libs on SCOTUS and benches throughout America will make similar decisions to hers.
I see no other viable candidate in the mix, and recognize Conservatism is perfected as one ages.
♣ a seal
Oddly, Cool, I take heart
January 26, 2008 - 12:30 ET by RJin Romney's keeping his word on his campaign promises....even the one that promised liberal Massachusetts voters he would not take actions to change their existing abortion laws in ways that would take away a "woman's right to choose." Note the difference in that and the anti-Romney people's claim that he promised to "support choice." Of course, some will say that was still supporting choice, but he wouldn't have been elected if he had said he would work to dismantle choice in such a liberal state.
However, during his tenure, he did veto all bills that would expand abortion rights, i.e. "distributing morning after pills to young girls, cloning and embryo farming, etc.
My opinion is that, no matter what they promise, we always take a chance on what politicans will do once elected....and that includes Mike Huckabee. So, to me, Romney keeping his promises as Governor is significant and encouraging....particularly since he says his intent is to overturn Roe v Wade. (Can you say conservative SCOTUS justices?)
Ultimately, though, unlike many Huckabee supporters and Romney detractors, I see choice as only one part of the overall requirements for our next President. That's because, outside of appointing justices, there's not much a President can do in that direction.
→ Semantic difference
January 26, 2008 - 12:47 ET by Cool ArrowI'm one who doesn't see a difference in his promise to "preserve and protect a woman's right to choose. . . I will honor my word" and being pro choice.
All we can hang on to at this point is that his "word" has changed due to new realization.
I'm inclined to believe him, but there is certainly fodder for the more skeptical. I agree, his Mormonism is not the issue. Those with whom I've had contact live more exemplary lives than me.
♣ a seal
arrow
January 26, 2008 - 12:56 ET byi can understand that he, when running to be a representative of the people of Mass, pledged to certain positions. Now running to be a representative of the entire nation he is pledging to certain positions. So the question is does he uphold his pledges or not? Have you had identical positions on all your job tasks or do they change?
Supreme Court, National Security, Borders, Fiscal Restraint, my litmus test for President.
→ Me too botg
January 26, 2008 - 13:07 ET by Cool ArrowAnd I've had this discussion before, but the same can be said of Huckabee. In fact he made the same argument you're making now.
My point then, as now, is that we tend to rationalize according to our own preferences. Another word for it is bias.
With that as a backdrop, I don't think Huckabee is the evil conniver the mob has grabbed pitchforks against. He's just not their choice, nor mine. What we are doing is treating evangelicals as idiots because they cling more tightly to the social side of Conservatism. We really need to be more respectful of them. We need their support.
♣ a seal
← as i've said before i
January 26, 2008 - 13:13 ET by← as i've said before i need to check out the candidates ACTUAL stands on the issues. PopTech has convinced me that just because there's some links slapped up as 'evidence' it doesn't make it true.
The only one I can say no to at present is McCain.
Supreme Court, National Security, Borders, Fiscal Restraint, my litmus test for President.
→ McAnus
January 26, 2008 - 13:27 ET by Cool ArrowJohn McAnus-Kennedy-Feingold. I thought he was running in the Democrat primaries.
♣ a seal
The answer to your question, botg, seems to be yes
January 26, 2008 - 13:21 ET by RJhe does keep his campaign promises. As he said in this video and as I said in my post just above, Romney kept his promise to not attempt to dismantle pro choice laws. (It's doubtful he could have done that in Massachusetts anyway) That's not a promise any of us like, or that he would agree with today, but he kept it.
It's important to note that he also turned back several efforts to expand "choice" rights.
RJ
January 26, 2008 - 13:29 ET bythats the same vid we just saw!!
McCain is a big NO
Rudy might not survive Florida
That leaves Mitt and Huck on Super Tuesday
Supreme Court, National Security, Borders, Fiscal Restraint, my litmus test for President.
I know it was, botg,
January 26, 2008 - 13:39 ET by RJbut because Romney specifically addresses your question about keeping campaign promises, I tossed it in again.
I'm not so sure about who continues after Florida. It depends on who can get enough money together. It's one of the reasons the other candidates are po'd at Romney. They don't think it's "fair" that he's using his own money....which sounds liberalish to me.....
Congress is full of officials who used their own money to get elected.
→ Most disgusting RJ
January 26, 2008 - 13:51 ET by Cool ArrowThe most disgusting case of "his own money" is that of John Kerry, whose wife, Theresa Heinz, was married to Republican Senator John Heinz until his death in a plane crash.
So it was really the money inherited from a Republican that financed John Kerry's campaign.
Made me wanna puke.
♣ a seal
Did you watch the video, Cool?
January 26, 2008 - 13:02 ET by RJIf you did, your post suggests you didn't pay attention.
Romney addressed that. He doesn't hide from being "effectively pro-choice, even though I never called myself that." He also describes when and how he changed his mind...and what he did about it.
→ Yes, RJ
January 26, 2008 - 13:09 ET by Cool ArrowAnd that would certainly be a turning point in my personal evolution as well.
♣ a seal
vrwc - you don't think there are any pro-choice Catholics or
January 25, 2008 - 12:49 ET by Dee Bunkother Christians? Personal experiences affect someones position and he had a relative die from an illegal abortion. Even when he was pro-choice he still believed in limits unlike the Dem candidates and so at worst he will still support legislation limiting it.
I can't blame someone for wanting to vote for someone who has always been pro-life, but it's ignorant to think that he would be anywhere as lax about it as Clinton or Obama who support no limits on age, parental notification or even by stage of pregnancy. Even when he was pro-choice he supported those limits. He has a record of supporting pro-life legislation and that is all that matters. I think it's admirable that once he changed his view, he didn't go back and try to change existing laws that he promised not to. That shows integrity.
Now that he has stated his position and will be elected on it if he reaches office, I think he will appoint judges without a litmus test.
"Now that he has stated his
January 25, 2008 - 13:01 ET by vrwc13"Now that he has stated his position and will be elected on it if he reaches office, I think he will appoint judges without a litmus test."
How do we know? Or will he bow to popular opinion once again? Wishful thinking maybe, but I would rather have someone we know supports the right-to-life. It's too important.
v
"The best option planned parenthood has to offer a woman in crisis is the death of her child".
This "string" has gotten so derailed...everyone forgot to come..
January 25, 2008 - 14:07 ET by vrwc13This "string" has gotten so derailed...everyone forgot to come back and address the first issue...
Will Romney stay pro-life or not. Will he change on other issues if elected? Who knows? His track record is no indication.
v
"Information is the currency of democracy." - Thomas Jefferson
Here's my take, vrwc13
January 25, 2008 - 14:15 ET by Cool ArrowI think he'll stay Prolife.
Remember Peter flip-flopped and Jesus left matters in his hands after going up into Heaven.
Even after that, Peter flip-flopped again. But there was somebody there to set him straight.
We'll be there is Mitt is tempted.
♣ a seal
"I think he'll (Romney) stay Prolife."
January 25, 2008 - 14:21 ET by vrwc13"I think he'll stay Prolife."
It's not just that...I see him as a politician, not a representative. I don't trust him, plain and simple.
If he will take the pro-life issue so politically, what other postions will he "conform" to?
v
"Information is the currency of democracy." - Thomas Jefferson
It wasn't a political
January 25, 2008 - 14:34 ET by Conservative VoiceIt wasn't a political calculation
Romney flip-flop on abortion "It wasn't a political calculation"
January 25, 2008 - 14:43 ET by vrwc13...great, on your word I will believe it. Will others?
v
"…you are entitled to your own opinion, but you are not entitled to your own facts." -the late Daniel Patrick Moynihan.
Cool... Excellent
January 25, 2008 - 14:25 ET by bigtimerCool...
Excellent point.
I just want to add my two cents here...I have known a lot of men in my life who have changed their mind about abortion and being pro-choice with time...two of them were my husbands...one is an ex now but we are still very good friends the other I am married too...lol.
Time does change things with all of us as we get older...plus I think being more informed now has helped a lot, the ultra sound has immensely changed some opinions too...
I also know we are talking about politicians flip-flopping for votes, but I don't think Romney is, I sure as heck could be wrong...again.
I just hope not.
Well said Cool Arrow, and
January 25, 2008 - 14:33 ET by Conservative VoiceWell said Cool Arrow, and exactly right. We want a candidate who will listen to conservatives if they stray. Mitt will listen to us, and believe me if he strays I will be among the first ones to call him on it.
"Mitt will listen to us, and
January 25, 2008 - 14:41 ET by vrwc13"Mitt will listen to us, and believe me if he strays I will be among the first ones to call him on it." CV
...great, you already know which cabinet postion you will be getting?
v
Yeah, logic, reason, facts play less of a role now in the way we make decisions in America. – Al Gore
we the people are more
January 25, 2008 - 15:09 ET by Conservative Voicewe the people are more powerful than any cabinet position.
Abortion and LDS
January 25, 2008 - 14:29 ET by Conservative VoiceI have already answered this, which reflects your listening skills or you did listen and thereby are just trolling again.
Can you show me where Romney had an abortion?
The fact is there are a number of pro-choice members in good standing, because even though they maybe personally against abortions they don't want government to dictate the choice. Do you go crazy about those Mormons who don't advocate smoking to be against the law ( like Huck wants ) even though smoking is against our teachings? Pro-choice does not mean pro-abortion. Romney was pro-choice due to personal reasons, not political...but became converted when he saw that the road of pro-choice was leading to stem cell harvesting, and that caused him to rethink his position. He is running on a pro-life ticket.
"Pro-choice does not mean pro-abortion."
January 25, 2008 - 14:38 ET by vrwc13"Can you show me where Romney had an abortion?"...
...can you show me where he hasn't?
"Pro-choice does not mean pro-abortion."...
...huh?
"...but became converted when he saw that the road of pro-choice was leading to stem cell harvesting, and that caused him to rethink his position."...
...or he became converted when he decided to run for president as a Republican? Which one is it? And how do you know?
v
"…you are entitled to your own opinion, but you are not entitled to your own facts." -the late Daniel Patrick Moynihan.
Romney and abortion
January 25, 2008 - 15:18 ET by Conservative Voice"...can you show me where he hasn't?"
The proof of him going against my Church teaching where abortion is concerned is on you, as you are the one making the assertion.
I have explained how pro-choice doesn't make you pro-abortion....it is the same as not being a smoker, but not wanting the government involved on making it illegal to smoke. Pro-abortion means you want abortions to happen as often as possible, and get upset when a woman choices to keep the baby or give it up for adoption ( usually because you believe the earth is over-populated ) and Mitt never went there.
As far as he being converted or just being a politician...no one can say for sure...the same as when someone says sorry for a wrong...you don't know if they are really sorry. I believe Mitt is telling the truth, and even if he wasn't, he could not survive long if he flips his position again. I could be wrong. However, you are the one who keeps asserting that he is a liar and a panderer, so the proof is on you.
Its funny, Huck has more forgiveness for criminals and illegals, than you do for a man who claims to have converted.
"Pro-choice does not mean
January 26, 2008 - 13:26 ET by tracheostomy"Pro-choice does not mean pro-abortion."...
You realize that this runs both ways for libs too, right?
-PJ
"Trake: Your lofty convictions are another blemish on the rump of congregational sectarianism." -Tumbler 5/15/07
Dee bunk
January 25, 2008 - 21:21 ET by shawn228the main point of my post was regarding Sylvester Stallone supporting John McCain, I did not expect this overwhelming response to my new tagline
"Are you angry that he changed his position because you are Pro-choice
or are you Pro-life?"
Neither Dee Bunk. actually I have moved quite a bit to the right when it comes to this violent act toward unborn children. My beef with Romney is I believe he is willing to say whatever it it takes to become he POTUS.
He says he has been a hunter his whole life, bu he does not even have a huning license, he said he saw his dad march with MLK, now he says he heard about it.
He said enough lip service to be the Governor of a Democratic State now he is saying whatever it takes to have the nomination for Conservatives across America who are generally pro choice and anit gay in the military. All of a sudden he opposes them now too.
So it astonishes me how so many people call Kerry a flipflopper, but give Romney a pass because he is the most conservative now that Fred Thompson has dropped out.
Romney five years ago
Shawn - so you can move to the right on the issue but Romny
January 26, 2008 - 00:25 ET by Dee BunkShawn - so you can move to the right on the issue but Romny can't? You say he's misleading and yet you mislead with your tagline. You could easily post to the video where he explains why he changed and how he changed but you don't care to.
Kerry filp-flopped daily. Flip flopping doesn't just mean changing your position on an issue. It's the frequency and the back and forth. If you think he's a liar then why don't you post some examples of where he went back on what he ran on as governor. He said he wouldn't change their legislation on abortion and he didn't. He did pass other legislation consistent with a pro-life position and he was always for limitations like parental consent.
All of those things make him good enough for me. He's far superior to Obama or Clinton who would have no restrictions on abortion and would disqualify any judge who had a personal belief that abortion was wrong or that Roe V wade was bad law. Even if they say that it's bad law but settled law they appose them. p>
Dee
January 26, 2008 - 00:36 ET by shawn228I have no problem with anyone changing their mind with abortion. You only pick this one issue, how about the other ones I listed above? Why would he say he is a hunter his whole life. Says he supports gays in the military but change his mind? Did he see or did he hear about his dad marching with MLK?
Doesn't it sound like he is willing to change to whatever position will get his elected to the oval office?
Romney five years ago
Shawn - I don't care if he is or isn't a hunter
January 26, 2008 - 09:05 ET by Dee Bunkor whether he saw or heard about his dad marching with MLK. Neither of those things are important to anything. His positions are what are important.
Kerry wanted to restrict gun ownership, but wanted pictures of him hunting to imply that he didn't. That is dishonest.
Ever heard of a White Lie? All politicians lie and pander name one who hasn't. These things you bring up if they are lies at all are little white lies. Maybe he didn't hunt all his life, only a few times who cares? He wants to give the correct impression, not a false one about his stance on gun control. In Kerry's case it is misleading and dishonest, in this case it's not.
Whether he heard about or saw his dad with MLK is meaningless also. He would have been very young at the time and it's completely normal to remember being someplace as a kid because you were told so much about it. It's not like where Jesse Jackson claimed to be there when MLK was shot. He was an adult.
Picking and Choosing Dee
January 26, 2008 - 10:36 ET by shawn228Yes Dee, I have heard of little white lies. They happen everyday. The thing is little white lies are put up with a little more scrutiny when you hold public office and yes this applies to Bill Clinton as well.
Hunting your whole life and going hunting twice for pheasants is not even close. Sometimes when you are a child, you do not realize what is going on, but as a grown aduld with children you think you might realize if you saw your dad marching with one of the greatest civil leaders our time. He has also flip flopped on his POV in gays in the military. I know your postion on homosexuality doesn't it bother you just a little bit?
It seems you are picking and choosing what is okay and what is not when it comes to who you want to vote for.
Just like that conversation you were having with RJ, vrwc and Cool Arrow and Balboa. I agree that there was cheap shots coming from both sides, but you chose to defend RJ's side only. I do not dislike Romney because I am a liberal. I would give serious consideration to have voted Guilina, Huckabee, McCain and Fred Thompson before he dropped out. Mitt Romney and Hillary Clinton are the people I dislike the most in this race and right now, my vote would go to the Hildabeast. The thing I will be willing to listen to what Romney has to say and give him a fair chance if he gets the nod, can you say the same about you and Hillary?
Romney five years ago
→ Shawn
January 26, 2008 - 10:45 ET by Cool ArrowFirst, I applaud your diligence in finding that Romney clip. Maybe we're just a little too quick to impute honesty to Gov. Romney. I don't know.
Second, was there anything I said in the discourse you refer to that was out of line? Please direct me to the "cheap shots" I took.
♣ a seal
cool arrow
January 26, 2008 - 11:05 ET by shawn228Perhaps I did not choose my words very well. I should have used the word snarky. Actually you were very respectful and did use disrespectful tones to anybody. I guess you save all best stuff for me lol:-)
Romney five years ago
→ Shawn
January 26, 2008 - 11:09 ET by Cool ArrowThat's a big 10-4.
I didn't think I was snarke either. All I did was point out the immediate personal attack from a poster when an ideological disagreement was in order.
♣ a seal
Shawnster
January 26, 2008 - 17:19 ET bywhy happy weekend, : ) Is it fair to say your video is Romney stating his position if elected governor of Massachusetts. MA has a distinct (to say the least--Teddy for how long?) group of citizens does it not? Now that he is running for a different job he has stated a different position to represent those who vote for him?
Supreme Court, National Security, Borders, Fiscal Restraint, my litmus test for President.
botg
January 27, 2008 - 12:48 ET by shawn228"Now that he is running for a different job he has stated a different position to represent those who vote for him?"
I believe he will do whatever postion gets him voted in botg. Including missionary.:-)
Romney five years ago
Shawn - I don't have a problem with RJ - I do have one with Cool
January 26, 2008 - 17:31 ET by Dee Bunkarrow and vcrw - as you should know because it was Cool Arrow who told you you were going to hell and when I stuck up for you told me I was going to hell or something to that effect. Yes RJ can get carried away as we all can.
Everyone here gets crabby and testy and/or overly passionate at times, but I'm not going to deal with people who tell me I'm going to hell. Period. They have no reasoning capability and it's pointless. I was surprised that Balboa would want to defend their tactics as more appropriate than RJ's and I'm even more surprised that you would defend Cool Arrow. What ever - I choose not to deal with him at all.
Back to the point of Romny. I explained to you the difference and you don’t want to or can’t understand it. I was pretty clear with my examples of Kerry and Jesse Jackson so there is nothing else I can tell you. You don’t want to get it. There is a clear difference.
What's clear is that you have a dog in this race and I doubt it's the strongest pro-life candidate. You don't like Romny - fine. My point is your tag is dishonest because it doesn't give his explanation. He doesn't deny that he used to be pro-choice. You make it seem as if he does. You could just as easily link to the video where he explains his position and you don't. So who are you supporting? Clinton, Obama or Huckabee? Just be clear about it and stop trying to act like you don't have an agenda.
You say that politicians are held to a higher standard with white lies and yet you couldn’t give me any example of a single one who hasn’t told them. So if you count Romny out, you have to count out the rest.
/p>
Thanks Dee Bunk
January 26, 2008 - 18:36 ET by shawn228I have an extremely good memory Dee Bunk. I will never forget the fact that you defended me.The thread you are talking about is my right to die thread
I have no idea why you would think that I would tell you to go to hell. From what I recall I thanked you for sticking up for me. Also I was not defending cool arrow. He asked me specifically what cheap shot that I accused him of. I could not find one. I am not one to make things up, even if it is to my advantage.
You are right, I am not a Romney fan. I usually use a tagline for a few days, then I change it. Yes it is biased but it is not the same plethora of tired links that Pop Tech uses.
"You say that politicians are held to a higher standard with white lies
and yet you couldn’t give me any example of a single one who hasn’t
told them. So if you count Romny out, you have to count out the rest."
Of course I can't prove that another candidate has never lied, I showed you examples of Romney lying. I admit I am not a Romney fan, but when it comes down to only 2 candidates and maybe a independent like Ron Paul, I will be willing to listen to whatever they have to say.
Romney five years ago
Oh Puhleeze Dee Bunk
January 26, 2008 - 21:46 ET by Cool ArrowDee, I repeated a very, very, very old joke which is nothing more than a demonstration that Bible passages, when taken out of context, can be used to say anything one wants them to say. Those passages were:
And Judas went out and hanged himself.
Go ye and do likewise.
I cannot apologize for your inability to grasp basic humor, but I do apologize if that is really what you think I was saying.
♣ a seal
Cool Arrow
January 26, 2008 - 22:24 ET by shawn228Cool, you have done nothing disrespectful in this thread, With the exception for the fact that your obsession with joining in whenever I am talking to somebody about free speech. you have actually been nice lately.
Come on, admit it. You were kind of below the belt in that thread, saying no one would care if I stuck a gone in mouth? Calling me Hitler? It is different if it was in a joking fashion, but it is quite clear you meant them.
I am not looking for an apology, I just want you to admit you were snarky in that thread.
Romney five years ago
Shawn
January 26, 2008 - 22:58 ET by Cool ArrowIf I remember correctly my words were "Lead on Adolph". For that I apologize with the following clarification:
Some 37 years ago in High School a teacher pointed out to us that the Baby boomer generation as it grows older would someday be such a strain on its children that obstacles to euthanasia would be removed for the sake of sheer economics. He followed by telling us Adolph Hitler had not begun his extermination with Jews, but the sick, the old, the retarded, and the deformed.
As the years have progressed, his prediction seems more and more imminent as we whittle away at the sanctity of life at both its beginning and its end.
That was the point I was making, and I apologize for having framed my opinion on the subject of euthanasia as a personal attack at you.
♣ a seal
Thx CA Romney five years
January 27, 2008 - 12:42 ET by shawn228Thx CA
Romney five years ago
shawn...I think if you read
January 26, 2008 - 22:04 ET by Jershawn...I think if you read Dee's post more closely, you'll see that she is actually referring to Cool Arrow as the one who allegedly told her to go to hell. [A couple of commas would have made her intent more clear...but she definitely wasn't accusing you.]
Jer
Jer
January 26, 2008 - 22:20 ET by Cool ArrowI'm not saying I didn't say it, just that I'd like to be directed to the comment via link.
I'm 95% sure the alleged "go to hell" incident is the one Shawn references.
Nowhere in that thread did I say any such thing. I was unaware the Bible passages thing was not a well known joke.
I guess it's only natural for coalitions to form and be kept in check through browbeating regardless of the social setting. It's up to Shawn if he wants to address me through a middle person as Dee does.
♣ a seal
Understood Cool
January 26, 2008 - 22:30 ET by JerUnderstood Cool Arrow...also please understand I have no idea what you said., or when or where you supposedly said it. I was just trying to clarify Shawn's apparent misreading of Dee's post.
Jer
Jer
January 27, 2008 - 12:44 ET by shawn228Not only can I not spell, but apparently I can't read so well either...lol. Thx for clarifying that :-) I enjoy debating with Dee, she i stubborn and set in her ways but she is a class act.
Romney five years ago
"get carried away?" What the #%&*@ are you talking about?
January 26, 2008 - 18:52 ET by RJhaha. Seriously, thanks for the stand-up, Dee. :^)
Actually, I seem to have become something of a Lightning Rod for a coterie of supposedly conservative Christian/evangalists who have improbably joined forces with a group of non-Christian/leftists, among others.
I find all of this very amusing...with an underlying sadness for the religious intolerance.
It all began last year, when those evangelicals (including NB blogger WTH, by the way), began attacking Romney and some of our own LDS posters in the most disgusting way. Even though I hadn't yet decided to back Romney, I couldn't let it continue without challenge. It seemed clear to me that their attacks were based in bigotry and when I told them so, the s--- hit the fan. Obviously, I touched a nerve, because ever since then these guys have been "bombing" many of my posts with off-topic attacks that accuse me of my own "bigotry" and other silly things. One of their favorites is, no matter what the subject or who I'm talking to, "be careful, or RJ will call you a bigot." Even WTH has been attacking me without provocation.
Next came the leftists: leon, balboa, shawn (and, for awhile, Syrius), who all delighted in piling-on. It's been a fun ride, but, frankly, not that much of a challenge. Now, because I haven't backed down, the poor things have devolved into accusing me of "insulting" them without provocation. Haha. Complete denial of their own original and continuing taunts and insults.
Along the way, I've also had PMs of thanks and support for standing up to their assults. They've come from both LDS posters and posters from other religions.
So, there's the history, Dee, and why I might appear to "get carried away", but I can say there's absolutely never been any anger. I hope all this doesn't sound arrogant, 'cause that's not my intent or how I feel.
Anyway, my currently favorite quote, which nicely describes this Gang That couldn't Shoot Straight, is this:
"He was a would-be sharp operator who lacked for the satisfaction of his ambition only the quality of sharpness and who expended all of his energies on preserving his opinions from contamination." -Michael Chabon, "Gentlemen Of The Road"
Well, now the s--- will hit the fan all over again. Buckle up, boys, here we go... :^)
For the record, I was just
January 26, 2008 - 18:58 ET by balboaFor the record, I was just agreeing that RJ is annoying. :-)
Ha, bal
January 26, 2008 - 19:04 ET by RJThat, from the guy who does his best to make snarky, annoying comments. :^)
"He was a would-be sharp operator who lacked for the satisfaction of his ambitioin only the quality of sharpness...." -Michael Chabon, "Gentlemen of the Road"
I am in no way a perfect
January 26, 2008 - 19:05 ET by balboaI am in no way a perfect messageboard denizen.
Waal, shake podner....me, too!
January 26, 2008 - 19:14 ET by RJJust sittin' here, a-pickin' and a-grinnin'.
Monday Morning QB
January 25, 2008 - 10:06 ET by ricklailI heard this morning John Edwards saying that that Bush's stimulus package was a month too late. Has anyone heard this a$$hole offer a stimulus package? For years the Breck Boy has had his own newspaper, The Raleigh N&O. Today's article made me want to puke. He is the most 2 faced SOB I know. One day Bruce Sprinsteen, the next Ralph Stanley. I pray to the good Lord that he will be history after tomorrow.
"May God have mercy upon my enemies, because I won't.” General George S. Patton.
It cant come fast
January 25, 2008 - 10:10 ET by USA4freedomIt cant come fast enough
These are the boys of Pointe du Hoc. Ronald Reagan- 40th Anniversary of D-Day
2nd Point
January 25, 2008 - 10:20 ET by BayshoremanWith regards to Noonan's second point, nothing underscores how the Billaries are taking off the Democrat's Emperor's new clothes on racial/gender harmony than a little blurp that appeared on NBC's Nightly News last night. Brian Williams asked Tim Russert about the latest polls in the South Carolina Democratic Primary and Russert answered http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3032619/#22826000
Black Voters WhiteVoters
Obama 59% 10%
Clinton 25% 36%
Edwards 4% 40%
Look close...59% of blacks vote for the black candidate and 76% of whites vote for the white candidates. Now what does THAT tell you? It tells me that the so-called "enlightened" Democratic Party which arrogantly claims it is colorblind unlike those nasty waskel Republicans, is simply nothing more than the deceitful mockery that it has always been. I sure hope the RNC is taking some good notes for the general election!!!
BTW, the following is what Brian and Tim said about this Democratic Party demographic:
"........................................................................."
That's right, NOTHING!!!!!!!!!!
Spot on, Bayshoreman. But
January 25, 2008 - 10:32 ET by USA4freedomSpot on, Bayshoreman. But I'm not so sure about the RNC, they seem clueless more often then not.
These are the boys of Pointe du Hoc. Ronald Reagan- 40th Anniversary of D-Day
Is CNN Better?
January 25, 2008 - 10:20 ET by BruzillaFor a long, long, time, my ritual has been to turn on the TV when I get home, and catch the last half of Gibson's show, watch all of Brit Hume, channel surf through Smith's show, watch Hannity & Colmes, then watch anything but VanSusteren try to play a lawyer on TV.
Almost all this week, I've gotten home from work and turned on CNN, and I must admit I am preferring CNN. I disagree with a lot of the biased political coverage, but at least it's political covereage. It's not ten minutes of political coverage interspersed amongst ten minutes of BIMBOS IN DISTRESS!!!, MISSING MOMS (but only if they are pregnant) or MISSING TEENS (but only pretty ones).
I think I'll keep watching Brit Hume, but stay with CNN for the rest.
I think time, poor memories,
January 25, 2008 - 10:36 ET by Chris NormanI think time, poor memories, weak wills, and failures to learn lessons are what have split the Republican Party. George W Bush is just one splinter of it. It will take another strong conservative leader and role model, like Ronald Reagan, to glue the thing back together and keep it stuck.
Dana Jacobson pic!!!
January 25, 2008 - 10:36 ET by balboaWow.
http://deadspin.com/...
sorry, I miss your point
January 25, 2008 - 12:54 ET by SouthJersey1953It's not Right vs. Left; it is Right vs. Wrong
That's Dana Jacobson from
January 25, 2008 - 13:02 ET by balboaThat's Dana Jacobson from the now infamous roast.
Malkin breaks bad news for McCain
January 25, 2008 - 12:13 ET by Jack BauerJohn McCain's Hispanic outreach director is a notorious open-borders advocate.
Michelle Malkin has just broken a story that McCain should have some difficulty 'splaining.
http://michellemalki...
→ Thanks, Bauer
January 25, 2008 - 12:19 ET by Cool ArrowI think that's the same smarmy weasel who's been on Glenn Beck several times doing the rope a dope on open borders.
If so, Beck's got lots of footage.
♣ a seal