For general discussion and debate. Possible talking point #1: Hillary and Rudy dropping in polls. Does it mean anything this far out, and which slide do you think press will focus more attention on?
Talking point #2: Did last night's NFL game, with timely flags giving the Patriots the win, leave you with the feeling the league wants them to have a perfect season, or did you think the game was impartially referreed?
Comments Policy
Travesty
December 4, 2007 - 11:11 ET by Noel SheppardNBers and sports fans,
Last night's travesty is one of the reasons I watch very little professional football. The refs in my view decided this game, and destroyed for me what was one of the more enjoyable regular season bouts I've seen in a while.
If the results are a fait acompli before the opening kickoff, why bother playing the game?
No offense to Patriots fans. ns
Samari Rolle said that one
December 4, 2007 - 11:16 ET by Roger the ShrubberSamari Rolle said that one ref kept calling him "boy" throughout the game, and that Bart Scott fnially lost it after hearing that.
You have to wonder about the NFL motives, since the evidence against NE has been conveniently destroyed.
NE cheating
December 4, 2007 - 11:26 ET by LionKingMost incidents involving cheating result in a severe penalty like forfeiture of a game or position. The exceptions appear to be the New England Patriots and Slick Willy.
The Patriots lost a first
December 4, 2007 - 11:51 ET by RangerTomThe Patriots lost a first round draft pick and Belichick was fined about a half a million dollars because of the taping incident. They got caught and paid a price for their actions. However, the taping incident had nothing to do with the outcome of the score in the Jets game where the incident took place. If Mangini, the Jets head coach had been so upset by this along with other Patriot haters that have accused them of doing this along, all Mangini had to do to make his point come across more stronger was to give back his Super Bowl jewelery he received while coaching under Belichick. I don't think he has. The ref's get blamed for "playing favorites" all the time in every sport. If there is some proof of this other than a disgruntled player from a team after a tough loss, let's see it. Otherwise take your whipping and move on. Try being a better TEAM and go from there. Watching the play and instant replay, yes, the call was correct. Should it matter that it was this late in the game? A flag should be thrown WHENEVER there is a penalty. Teams can still play tough and aggressive without committing a penalty. Perhaps after every play it should be reviewed to insure there were no infractions made before, during, or after the play. Then we can watch a football game take over five hours to complete.
Screw diversity, celebrate competancy
You can't sit there and try
December 4, 2007 - 12:00 ET by BruzillaYou can't sit there and try to make the case that what happened to the Patriots was sufficient. The NFL moved very aggressively to squanch the case. The NFL should have investigated this thoroughly. Mangini should have been forced to reveal everything he knew about what the Patriots had been doing, and he was never required to tell anything. The recordings in question were surrendered and immediately destroyed without anyone being able to see what was on them.
Belichick and the Patriots used the defense that this was a simple misunderstanding of the rules, which was BS. The NFL took just enough action to say that they weren't just doing nothing, and quickly whitewashed the incident as quickly as possible.
I've heard and read many sports announcers say NFL taping was
December 4, 2007 - 12:07 ET by RJfairly common but overlooked. That's why the league didn't want a full-blown investigation in the matter.
The only reason NFL officials moved at all was a specific complaint was made public and they had to do something.
I did make the case. It
December 4, 2007 - 12:08 ET by RangerTomI did make the case. It is up to the accusers to prove me wrong. The Patriots were fined for their actions. Case closed. How do you know for certain that the NFL just took enough action to say they weren't just doing nothing? How much more should they have done and what else could they have done? If this incident is to be kept alive and have any meaning to it, all Mangini needs to do is hold a press conference stating that this has always happened when he was with the Patriots organization. He hasn't. I wonder why that is.
Screw diversity, celebrate competancy
And I guess we never will
December 4, 2007 - 13:27 ET by BruzillaAnd I guess we never will know will we? That's the purpose of an investigation.
If there was something else
December 4, 2007 - 13:53 ET by RangerTomIf there was something else that was found out in this investigation that the NFL wouldn't talk about are reasons known only to them. I'm thinking that if there is something juicy to put out, there will be some individual at NFL headquarters that will give this info to ESPN or to the folks over at hatethepatriots.com Until then, I will watch my favorite team that I have been watching since the sixties play football and hopefully go undefeated and win the SuperBowl as well.
Screw diversity, celebrate competancy
-
December 4, 2007 - 12:20 ET by dahliatraversNot a major sports fan. But this incident was strange. Why were those tapes destroyed at all, never mind so quickly?
That's another great
December 4, 2007 - 13:28 ET by BruzillaThat's another great question that will never be investigated. The NFL will go to all lengths to investigate a player's wrongdoing, but this case got a fine and a quick closing.
If this is such a serious
December 4, 2007 - 15:37 ET by RangerTomIf this is such a serious case then why don't all the other teams, especially the Jets, make a bigger stink about all of this? Maybe the Jets and all the other teams combined are happy with the outcome of this investigation. The problem was addressed it seems, doesn't it? Just out of curiosity, do you know how often the signs are changed? The play list on the QB's wrist is changed every quarter I do believe. This is what helps teams from not having to worry too much about their signs being stolen. It's just like in the intel community, they change their codes daily and probably more than once.
Screw diversity, celebrate competancy
The Silence is Telling
December 4, 2007 - 18:25 ET by Del DolemonteIf the Pats taping incident had happpened at the end of the season, not the beginning, I think more would be made of the investigation. Belichik probably didn't want the thing to be a distraction to the team, so played ball with the NFL and gave them what they wanted.
And it seems to me that allegations that the refs threw last night's game to New England to keep their streak alive is a bunch of hooey. If anything, they would be angry at the Pats for the earlier incident and want them to lose.
Noel...
December 4, 2007 - 11:24 ET by LionKingKudos to the Ravens for playing their hearts out.
Randy Moss said something to the effect that the Raven's defensehad been getting away with the holds all through the game but he was glad they finally called it in the end.
It seems to me the referees were instructed to let the game be competitive which essentially means allowing the Raven's defense to be aggressive. Moss's quote indicates that the referee's ultimately were inconsistent which means they had an agenda.
It disgusts me when referees feel that they need to be so important that they affect a game negatively. No one can feel good about the calls in that game.
I felt the holding call on
December 4, 2007 - 11:25 ET by dvdaughtryI felt the holding call on 4th down late (under a minute?) was a bit touchy-feely, but the Ravens didn't help their matters much towards the end.
They couldn't keep the clock running or get a first down in the mid to late 4th.
Well, for once, the rich white man is in control. --Montgomery Burns
dvd.... I only caught the
December 4, 2007 - 12:02 ET by bigtimerdvd....
I only caught the very beginning and the very end...I was reading the posts here to see if anyone else thought the exact call you reference in your post felt the same as I did...I thought it was an outrageous call...what holding...where?
Believe me, I have no dog in this fight, I just love good football, the Ravens have never been on my list of favorites in the last few years so I thought it was very unfair...as to the rest of your post I also could not agree more about the rest of the game that I did see.
It seemed to me that Brian Billick
December 4, 2007 - 12:29 ET by Hero SquadIt seemed to me that Brian Billick helped the Patriots win more than the refs. Fourth down and one late in the game on a desparation drive, and the Ravens stuff them for a loss. Wait, no, Billick threw out a last second time out call to "ice" the Patriots, thereby negating the play.
At that moment, I knew the Patriots were going to exploit that miscue to their benefit.
Will this finally be the end of using time outs to ice opposing teams? It backfires just as often as it works, and it rarely works anyway.
I'm not a Patriots fan, but there's a small part of me that would like to see the Pats go undefeated and end the 1972 Dolphins annual soiree... especially in a year that the Dolphins might go winless, ending the 1978 Tampa Bay Buccaneers annual... well, I guess they don't really do anything.
*****
"There are no stupid questions. Only stupid people who ask questions." - Chris Berman
I thought the winning TD
December 4, 2007 - 11:27 ET by JerI thought the winning TD should have been overturned. He wasn't really bobbling the ball, but it clearly and indisputably was still moving around in his hands as Gafney went out of bounds.
Jer
I watch a lot of football,
December 4, 2007 - 11:47 ET by BruzillaI watch a lot of football, and there is no other game I've ever watched where that catch would be ruled a touchdown. None. Lately I've been seeing catches called incomplete due to lack of possession when the receiver had the ball in both hands but didn't have it up tight to his chest. In this case, the ball was obviously out of Gafney's right hand. He may have been touching the ball with his fingertips, but he in no way had control.
I'm a Steelers fan and can't stand the Ravens or the Patriots, but that was as bad a call as the botched Polamalu interception call in the Steelers/Colts AFC playoff game in 2005.
Absolutely correct,
December 4, 2007 - 12:04 ET by JerAbsolutely correct, Bruzilla. I have seen dozens of "receptions" nullified by instant replay that would have been ruled completions in pre-replay days. The criteria for a catch are stringent and detailed, and replay exposes the receiver's flaw [which often is undetectable in real time.]
I would like to hear an offical explain why that was ruled a catch.
Jer
I'm a baseball guy and a
December 4, 2007 - 12:13 ET by dvdaughtryI'm a baseball guy and a catch includes a "voluntary realease".
I don't know the rule book for the NFL, but to me it looked like he was in control of the ball. I saw him securing it (read tuck).
Well, for once, the rich white man is in control. --Montgomery Burns
That's why I would like an
December 4, 2007 - 12:28 ET by JerThat's why I would like an "official" explanation. It sounds contradictory, but a case can be made that he was controlling the ball, but it definitely was still moving around as he stepped out of bounds. I haven't looked at the rule, but my thinking is that a ball not firmly in the receiver's grasp, and moving for any reason, conclusively establishes non-control.
I already miss baseball.
Jer
Now if it would've happened
December 4, 2007 - 12:31 ET by Hero SquadNow if it would've happened to, say, a Cleveland, at the end of the game, the call would've been exactly the same.
Whoops, it did happen to Cleveland. And whoops, it wasn't ruled the same.
*****
"There are no stupid questions. Only stupid people who ask questions." - Chris Berman
I didn't see the play H
December 4, 2007 - 12:36 ET by JerI didn't see the play H S. Did a Cleveland receiver make a TD catch that was ruled a bobble?
Jer
Winslow had a similar play
December 4, 2007 - 13:59 ET by Roger the ShrubberWinslow had a similar play that Gaffney had. The correct call was made in Winslow's case (which makes Steelers fans like me very very happy!). I personally think Gafnney bobbled, but, hey, it was a win-win for me: I hate BOTH the Patsies and the Cravens. I am a winner regardless who won that game. The fact it was so excruciating for Billick made it more special...
Mr. the Shrubber is
December 4, 2007 - 14:40 ET by Hero SquadMr. the Shrubber is correct. It was the right call. Which just goes to show that the refs get it right 50% of the time.
Although I was disappointed, solely for the fantasy football implications, having played Derek Anderson this week.
*****
"There are no stupid questions. Only stupid people who ask questions." - Chris Berman
I already miss
December 4, 2007 - 12:36 ET by dvdaughtryI already miss baseball.
The other best part of baseball is the offseason is so short!
(Pitchers and Catchers in 10 Weeks) ;)
Well, for once, the rich white man is in control. --Montgomery Burns
Hard to believe. Can't
December 4, 2007 - 12:44 ET by JerHard to believe. Can't wait. I always loved to follow spring training...wondering if any of those "phenoms" tearing up the Sally league could hit real pitching.
Jer
You're right in saying he
December 4, 2007 - 13:30 ET by BruzillaYou're right in saying he tucked it, but he was well beyond the end zone when he did. At the point he crossed the boundary, the ball was in the air with just his fingertips touching it, and that's not control of the ball.
I'm saying he was tucking
December 4, 2007 - 14:40 ET by dvdaughtryI'm saying he was tucking it. You have to have control to tuck it. The ball does not necessarily have to be tucked to have control.
I saw he caught it. Period. And brought it into his body
Also, I completly disagree that a ball on the fingertips is not control.
Ask Mr. Brady if he throws the football in his hands or his fingers.
Well, for once, the rich white man is in control. --Montgomery Burns
Yes dvd...Brady and nearly
December 4, 2007 - 15:10 ET by JerYes dvd...Brady and nearly every quarterback holds and throws with the fingers...but the ball is still stationary while being held in the fingers--not pitching and yawing...as was the case with Gaffney. No catch. The Patriots streak is forever tarnished.
Jer
WMDs AND INTEL: LIBS DO A SPIN
December 4, 2007 - 20:32 ET by reelman46A few years ago MULTI-COUNTRY intel on Iraq claimed they had WMDs… none were found…
so Iraq “was just kidding” (they only had gas that killed tens of thousands and that does not count to liberals)
… Bush did not question the intel… so he got hammered by liberals for years…
Now MULTI-COUNTRY Intel on Iran claims they are not (still) working on nuclear weapons…
(Israel still says they are)…
so Iran “was just kidding” and Bush questions the intel this time… so he gets hammered by liberals.
=====
Translation: Intel is only reliable when it serves the pacifist liberal agenda. Now we can just ignore whatever Iran says…right?
Moslem countries are such pranksters, nothing but kidding around all the time…
Doug Schexnayder, Ph.D. (theconservativecrawfish)
We call them ...
December 4, 2007 - 19:06 ET by tenthreeleader"Packer moments" at my house. When a replay decision is so obvious that even these clowns in the NFL can't get it wrong, they find a way to make it come out in a way no thinking person can understand.
Case in point, the Packers/Panthers game a few weeks ago where Brett Favre was sacked, fumbled, and Julius Peppers got up with the ball and handed it to the official. On replay, they agreed there had been a fumble but gave it back to the Packers due to "no clear defensive possession". We blinked about that call at my house.
As for people who think the Patriots were adequately punished for Filmgate, remember that they lost their own first round choice but still have, and were allowed to retain, San Francisco's by trade. Therefore, not only will they have a first-round pick next season, they will have it before most of the non-playoff teams. Some "punishment".
Is there a star system in the NFL? Absolutely. Do certain teams benefit from officiating? I believe so, most notably the Cowboys, Packers and Patriots. Do the rest of us have to get used to it? Unfortunately, yes.
Disclosure: frustrated Viking fan here. I can't wait for the day Adrian Peterson gets some of those calls.
Oh, come on, Noel
December 4, 2007 - 11:39 ET by RJAs if there aren't many, many examples of poor refereeing in college football and basketball?
There are good calls and bad calls, just as there are good refs and bad refs. There's a ref, for example, who I'm convinced has a much faster whistle against the UConn Huskies than he does their opposition, but that doesn't mean there's a conspiracy.
For another example, I could go back to poor calls that nearly cost the Patriots their last game. Sometimes they go for you and sometimes against.
No offense taken- but those
December 4, 2007 - 11:40 ET by Sli-BriNo offense taken- but those calls were backed up on tape- and that tape left little doubt.
Baltimore MUGGED the receiver on that inside slant in the endzone- literally had him in a bear hug. (holding- 10yds/1st down)
The baltimore sideline DID call a timeout that has been shown now to be the game killer.
Gaffney DID make the catch..
Forget his name.. the dude who lost it- collected 35 yds of penalties in one play
That said- Baltimore was a most worthy opponent, and I can't emphasize that enough. Very impressive.
If that is the case why
December 4, 2007 - 11:46 ET by Airforce_5_OIf that is the case why wasn't the mugging of the reciver on the Hail-mary called, Also Backed up on tape. Works both ways.
Try again
The only thing you should feel when shooting insurgents is the rifle recoil.
As I recall- it was
December 4, 2007 - 12:11 ET by Sli-BriAs I recall- it was OFFENSIVE pass interference that was not called, dude. (hail mary play)
The Baltimore player took the man down by the throat! The guy who caught the ball didn't have anyone jump up in front of him and- he caught it!
I'm not sure if it would have been called or not. The ref might have ignored it due to the clock expiring 1 second before the ball hit his arms or due to the situation.
There are several examples in this game of Baltimore getting away with holding. That HUGE pass Boller made after being flushed & rushed to the right- Asante was ON that. He was also MUGGED and understandably so. I don't think he could have turned down the sideline- but that was a sure INT provided he didn't drop it. (a problem all night)
Gaffney most certainly DID have control.
He secured the ball in his hands- full palm grip in the right hand, fingers and fingertips in the left. He then pulled it in & raised it up somewhat to check his feet vs. the sideline.
If he had gone limp from the waist down-toes pointed down and all that- and was staring at the ball the whole time- NOW you have an argument. That might look like a bobble to a ref.
It was reviewed- and the right call was made.
There is no way Gaffney had
December 4, 2007 - 11:50 ET by BruzillaThere is no way Gaffney had control of that ball as he went out of bounds. The ball can be clearly seen being in the air above his hand, and the only part of his hand making contact are his fingertips. That's a lack of control in every other NFL game.
Bruz.... You are right.
December 4, 2007 - 12:03 ET by bigtimerBruz....
You are right.
Noel Sheppard, official Tom
December 4, 2007 - 11:41 ET by MrShyNoel Sheppard, official Tom Brady hater.
Shywear makes a great Stocking Stuffer!" - Free Stinker
2 buck chuck
December 4, 2007 - 11:52 ET by SemperrightThere is a lot of 2 buck chuck going around. That's cheap wine. The Ravens are one of the most penalized teams in the NFL because they play dirty and get caught. Get over it. I am a football fan not a Pats fan. That was a good game but don't get pissy about the refs just because the Ravens played hard one game this season and it wasn't good enough. They plays were reviewed and were legit.
"Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if they made a difference.
The MARINES don't have that problem."
President Ronald Reagan - 1985
Agreed
December 4, 2007 - 16:02 ET by Del DolemonteI only heard the end of the game on the radio as I was getting ready for bed-sounds to me like the Ravens shot themselves in the foot, especially with that bonehead coaching call that gave Brady another chance.
FYI, the Ravens offense is 4th in the NFL in penalties. Their defense however is in the middle of the pack.
SCOREBOARD!!! (h/t, Jim Rome)
December 4, 2007 - 22:48 ET by UnsaneI can't take it anymore! I MUST respond to ALL of this WHINING over the fact that the Ravens could not close the damn sale!!!
That was NOT a ref that threw the interception at the goal line!!!
That was NOT a ref that called a time-out...right as the Pats were getting stuffed on a fourth down!!!
Those were NOT refs who allowed Tom Brady to scramble for a fourth down, AFTER the refs penalized the Pats for a false start! By the way, if the fix was in, why wasn't "encroachment" called instead?
And that was NOT a ref who lost his cool, threw a hissy fit that put his team 30 yards in the hole, followed by another knucklehead who committed a penalty for 5 more yards!
Did you know the Ravens are the second-most penalized team in the NFL? Sounds like a discipline problem, and it reared its ugly head at the worst possible moment for them. Yet, everyone wants to sit around and cry about the officiating. Maybe if the Ravens kept their wits about them, did the right things, kept disciplined, and stopped crying about the refs, they would have won the game! In fact, the worst thing is, they lost a won game! They outplayed the Pats and pounded them the entire game, and STILL lost because they could not keep their composure when called upon to do so.
Enough already!!!
Res tantum valet quantum vendi potest.
that's right, Unsane!
December 4, 2007 - 23:24 ET by MrShyOh, and, I love Tom Brady!
:)
"I still love NewsBusters." - Mr. Shy
More on the Pats
December 4, 2007 - 23:33 ET by UnsaneI am a die-hard Bronco fan (yeah, having a tough year), and I had much fun watching last night's game. Why? Zero emotional attachment. I could just kick back and watch as an observer.
I am no Patriots fan, but I have to give them their props. I also am compelled to defend them in this instance for all the reasons cited in my post above.
Oh yeah: Gaffney caught the ball. If that's not a catch, then I better see all one-handed grabs and fingertip catches invalidated just the same.
Res tantum valet quantum vendi potest.
They should've waited until the Breck Girl was elected
December 4, 2007 - 11:14 ET by Prester John2 students convicted in bank robbery
CINCINNATI - Two college students say the high cost of tuition led them to rob a bank.
The men pleaded guilty to two charges of aggravated robbery and six charges of kidnapping. They face 20 years in prison when sentenced Dec. 27.
Andrew Butler, 20, a theater major at the University of Toledo, told Hamilton County Common Pleas Judge Steve Martin on Monday that tuition increases outpaced his scholarships and financial aid.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071204/ap_on_fe_st/odd_bank_robbery_tuition_3
Brilliant!!
Jeez I guess they never
December 4, 2007 - 11:19 ET by taterJeez I guess they never heard of financial aid loans.
Do you realize how much it costs to run for office? More than any honest man could afford. -Montgomery Burns
I though it would be the
December 4, 2007 - 11:32 ET by Airforce_5_OI though it would be the High cost of beer. My bad
The only thing you should feel when shooting insurgents is the rifle recoil.
The past two weeks have
December 4, 2007 - 11:29 ET by Airforce_5_OThe past two weeks have pretty much done it in for me and the NFL. The refs, not the players, have decided these two great games. What ever happened to leaving it on the field? What has happened to letting the players “PLAY” the game?
I am going to watch the Steelers/Pats game and with all the fiber of my being I hope the Refs will let these guys Play the Game.
Man I am glad College Bball season is here
GO HEELS
The only thing you should feel when shooting insurgents is the rifle recoil.
That's why I watching
December 4, 2007 - 11:30 ET by pwozThat's why I watching nothing but Hockey. NFL = a bunch of nancies.
GO CANES!!!!! The only
December 4, 2007 - 11:33 ET by Airforce_5_OGO CANES!!!!!
The only thing you should feel when shooting insurgents is the rifle recoil.
NO! I'm a Rangers fan :(
December 4, 2007 - 11:36 ET by pwozNO! I'm a Rangers fan :( Last night was horrible!
pwoz...
December 4, 2007 - 12:20 ET by Clear thinkerYou should try MMA, no nancys there, none, zip, nada!
Rush Limbaugh stated that of the top 5 Republicans running for the presidency, only one was a true conservative. http://www.fred08.com/ Rush then stated that the conservative was Fred Thompson.
Well there was a ref in the
December 4, 2007 - 11:32 ET by taterWell there was a ref in the NBA that got caught fixing games....I'm just saying.
Do you realize how much it costs to run for office? More than any honest man could afford. -Montgomery Burns
Tater...College Bball, the
December 4, 2007 - 11:34 ET by Airforce_5_OTater...College Bball, the NBA sucks.
The only thing you should feel when shooting insurgents is the rifle recoil.
I really only watch college
December 4, 2007 - 11:37 ET by taterI really only watch college sports to begin with, as a Jayhawk alum our big thing is college bball...I was just starting a consperacy theory about one professional league having a ref caught for fixing games why not another....
it wouldn't surprise me really
Do you realize how much it costs to run for office? More than any honest man could afford. -Montgomery Burns
Yeah, there has never been
December 4, 2007 - 11:40 ET by dvdaughtryYeah, there has never been any point shaving, eligibility, recuiting, or finance controversies in the NC double A.
I don't get why the NCAA gets a pass on conspiracy theories. It's as corrupt as the Pro games.
Well, for once, the rich white man is in control. --Montgomery Burns
Oh I know the NCAA is just
December 4, 2007 - 11:43 ET by taterOh I know the NCAA is just as corrupt there probably isn't a clean thing about sports anymore...but there is something about rooting for the school you went to with kids playing for love of the game and scholarships (as far as we know).
Do you realize how much it costs to run for office? More than any honest man could afford. -Montgomery Burns
Sorry, I didn't mean to
December 4, 2007 - 11:56 ET by dvdaughtrySorry, I didn't mean to send that comment directly you. In fact, one of two regrets I have is I did not begin a tradition of going to a huge university for my kids (the other is serve in the military). Hopefully, I can enstill it (both) in them.
I am getting a taste of it with my in-laws. They are Auburn fans and going to football games is a great experience.
However, I get tired of a massive conspiracy theory everytime a questionable call(s) are brought to light. Did NE get the benfit, maybe, but it has been this way forever.
From college to the pros, the sports are for one primary purpose--generate revenue.
It's a concept that is as old as the Black Sox, and hasn't changed since.
It's time to accept it as a part of sports and adjust accordingly.
Well, for once, the rich white man is in control. --Montgomery Burns
Three letters dvd.....
December 4, 2007 - 11:48 ET by Airforce_5_OB C S
All that has to be said....
The only thing you should feel when shooting insurgents is the rifle recoil.
Exhibit A, your
December 4, 2007 - 12:01 ET by dvdaughtryExhibit A, your honor.
Well, for once, the rich white man is in control. --Montgomery Burns
BS not BCS
December 4, 2007 - 12:02 ET by PawpawNThis year has really shown that the BCS is BS. There's no way they are the 2 best teams in College Football!!
Who is then,
December 4, 2007 - 15:18 ET by general companyWho is then, dont leave us hanging without naming them.
"Always do right. This will gratify some people, and astonish the rest". Mark Twain
That's easy: Temple and
December 4, 2007 - 15:38 ET by Roger the ShrubberThat's easy: Temple and Duke!
Temple and Duke?
December 4, 2007 - 16:07 ET by sunandsteelI still say Div 1 needs playoffs. The BCS is complete crap. There are probably at least 12 teams that could make a case for them being in the championship game. But LSU is in because it was their turn in the rotation, Ohio State is in because they are Ohio State. Playoffs would fix this problem real quick, but NOOOOOOO, the NCAA seems to like the annual cluster-f**k that is the BCS.
What doesn’t kill you, only makes you pissed off. -Children of Bodom
And now, today's Shrub
December 4, 2007 - 11:51 ET by Roger the ShrubberAnd now, today's Shrub Report®:
On this date, in 1971, a flare gun sets the Montreaux Casino ablaze, inspiring the classic hit "Smoke on the Water". Ironically, the band playing that night in Montreaux, Frank Zappa, died on this date in 1993. Also on this date, in 1980, Led Zeppelin announced their break-up.
I am guessing profiling Muslims would not work in this case?
Jah, ze Joos hate ze environment!
A Culture of Corruption Update. The aide is a "former" aide only because he got busted. Here's another update.
For Carl Kolchak, here's a Robert Mugabe Update.
I'm dreaming of a smart Cleveland… (keep on dreaming!)
Here's another Iraq is a Civil War Update.
And, finally, tonight at 11: Could the Holidays be killing you?
"I'm dreaming of a white
December 4, 2007 - 12:05 ET by Airforce_5_O"I'm dreaming of a white Cleveland"? OMG that is funny!
I guess that ranks up there with "New Orleans is a Chocolate City".
BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!! The only thing you should feel when shooting insurgents is the rifle recoil.
Jah, ze Joos hate ze environment!
December 4, 2007 - 12:07 ET by MightyMouth"In a campaign that has spread like wildfire across the Internet,..."
Typical liberal "solution": start a wildfire to save a candle.
"There are two types of people in this country; those who provide freedom and those who enjoy it." MM says...
All I can say about a White
December 4, 2007 - 12:32 ET by Dan The Man 2All I can say about a White Cleaveland in the Great Zappa tradition, "Doh Doh Doh...Dont eat the yellow snow."
Nuke em til they glow then shoot em in the dark.
Great way to tie it all
December 4, 2007 - 13:54 ET by Roger the ShrubberGreat way to tie it all together, Dan!
Now this is interesting
December 4, 2007 - 12:15 ET by Prester JohnIn today's Washington Post there is an article about The New Republic kerfluffle over the phony articles about GI cruelty in Baghdad. The Post even uses the head line "New Republic Disavows Iraq Diarist's Reports".
But wait,in the 4th paragrah they bring in a discussion of some apparently phoney articles published on National Review Online about Lebanon and the last 1/3 of the Post article deals almost exclusively with it. Now why would they would combine the two stories?
Hmmmm. I wonder.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/12/03/AR2007120301978.html
DagNab Recession!
December 4, 2007 - 12:19 ET by PawpawNI posted elsewhere but it needs to be repeated: Let's see: 1)Dow up from 11,426 in late Nov 2006 to 13.284.98 as we type; 2)Nasdaq up from 2431.77 late Nov 2006 to 2630.01 as we type; S&P up from 1363.98 late Nov 2006 to 1465.50 as we type. That's in 1 year. In March 2001 Dow was at 9878.78, and that was before 9/11 which changed everything, in fact, in 9/2002 Dow was 7591.93. In March 2001 Nasdaq was 1840.26, in 11/2002 was 1335.51. S&P was 944.75 in 9/2001, in 3/2003 was 788.90. Well, I guess Stats Must Lie!! Dag Nab that Recession!!
Plinking away
December 4, 2007 - 12:52 ET by Prester JohnAnd on the lighter side of the news:
In Afghanistan, an Air Force F-15E Strike Eagle dropped guided bomb unit-12s against a vehicle transporting enemy combatants near Musa Qal'eh. The on-scene joint terminal attack controller confirmed the strike was successful.
An Air Force MQ-1B Predator launched a hellfire missile against a vehicle carrying enemy personnel in Nowzad. The missile impacted on the intended target. The strike was assessed as successful.
A Royal Air Force GR-9 Harrier destroyed an enemy vehicle during a strike southwest of Kandahar. An enhanced Paveway II munitions, rockets, and a 540-pound bomb was used to destroy the target. The vehicle was transporting weapons and enemy personnel. The strike was reported as successful.
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/news/2007/12/mil-071203-afpn01.htm
Allah frickin' akbar y'all!!
"...a vehicle transporting
December 4, 2007 - 13:52 ET by Roger the Shrubber"...a vehicle transporting enemy combatants..."
What was that, a Datsun pick-up with a dozen guys in Adidas t-shirts and jogging outfits with AK-47s?
An enhanced Paveway II
December 4, 2007 - 15:02 ET by Jack BauerWell... you just can't be too careful in destroying a vehicle. I wonder how small the pieces were once they cooled.
Who would the world elect?
December 4, 2007 - 13:31 ET by Dynehttp://www.whowouldt...
I stumbled onto this site while reading some columns today and it just made my day for two reasons. 1: People all over the world seem to like the idea of freedom and a president who actually abides by the law (and has the record to prove it). 2: Hillary's losing to both the Wookiee and the UFO nut.
The world's far better informed than I thought. God bless the internet!
"Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them." -Matthew 7:20
I wouldn't read into that
December 5, 2007 - 02:05 ET by PostoStudantoI wouldn't read into that website too much if I were you. Just take a look at the Republican side. Ron Paul is currently getting about 42 thousand out of the 48 thousand Republican votes. For the Democrats, take a look at Mike Gravel's numbers. He has 2 thousand out of the 32 thousand Democrat votes, enough to make him get 4th place for Democrats. That's also more than any of the Republicans besides Ron Paul. Considering that Mike Gravel struggles to get above 1% in polls and that Ron Paul only rarely gets above 5%, I doubt those numbers are worth anything at all.
Sorry, leon
December 4, 2007 - 13:33 ET by RJI have no interest in talking to you via PMs. If you have something to say to me, you can post it on the open forum.
You Might Be Taliban
December 4, 2007 - 13:38 ET by Airforce_5_OYou Might Be Taliban If.
...You refine heroin for a living but have a moral objection to beer.
...You own a $300 assault rifle and a $5,000 rocket launcher, but you
can't afford shoes.
...You have more wives than teeth.
...You think vests only come in two styles: Bullet-Proof and Suicide.
...You've used a Stinger missile given to you by George Bush Sr. to
shoot at a helicopter sent by George Bush Jr.
...You can't think of anyone you HAVEN'T declared Jihad against.
...You consider television dangerous, but routinely carry live
ammunition in your robe.
...You've ever been asked, "Does this burka make my ass look fat?"
.You believe the Quran is the divine word of Allah, worth dying for, but
yet you don't know how to read.
...You were amazed to d iscover that cell phones have use! s other than
setting off roadside bombs.
...You've ever uttered the phrase, "I love what you've done with your
cave".
...You wipe your butt with your bare left hand, but consider bacon
"unclean".
.You've ever said, "I'd Walk a Mile for a Camel" and you don't smoke.
I have a fish named Mohammad, and my son has a stuffed toy named Jesus. The Muslims want my head and Kieth says I'm going to Hell.
I loved it. LMAO. Can you
December 4, 2007 - 14:05 ET by ricklailI loved it. LMAO. Can you do here's your sign next?
"May God have mercy upon my enemies, because I won't.” General George S. Patton.
Great stuff! Do you have any
December 4, 2007 - 14:26 ET by TruthMongerGreat stuff!
Do you have any of this for Jews or Catholics?
1. You might be a crusader if you pray to a fat guy in Italy?
2. You might be a zionist if you're so cheap you make your mother pay rent when she comes to visit?
Keep em coming!
Ahhhh Truth you flatter
December 4, 2007 - 14:53 ET by Airforce_5_OAhhhh Truth you flatter me...I still love ya man....
I have a fish named Mohammad, and my son has a stuffed toy named Jesus. The Muslims want my head and Kieth says I'm going to Hell.
Ahhhh Truth you flatter
December 4, 2007 - 14:54 ET by Airforce_5_OSee I even doubled it!
I have a fish named Mohammad, and my son has a stuffed toy named Jesus. The Muslims want my head and Kieth says I'm going to Hell.
T Monger, a Billion sites bash Jews N' Catholics.
December 4, 2007 - 15:08 ET by upcountry