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Sports Scandals
August 15, 2007 - 10:17 ET by shawn228Sports is just not as fun to watch any more. First it is all about money to athletes and 2nd I am getting awfully tired of all these scandals. Michael Vick and the dogfighting, The most cherished record in all sports tainted by a steroids scandal, Now a referee is going to plead guility to betting on games, from what I understand "he was the referee"
game fixing
I'm tired of $8 beer and a
August 15, 2007 - 10:17 ET by MightyMouthI'm tired of $8 beer and a $5 hot dog!
"There are two types of people in this country; those who provide freedom and those who enjoy it." MM says...
MM
August 15, 2007 - 10:18 ET by shawn228........and the beer is flat and the hot dog is cold.
A few years ago when
August 15, 2007 - 10:23 ET by Ruths husband BenA few years ago when Baseball was threatening to go on strike, I saw a man at a ballpark holding a sign saying something like, "Please don't go on strike. Where else can I buy two beers for $17?"
Because of the state of professional sports, I now prefer to watch High School sports. Although the professionalism is not the same, the competitiveness is. The cost is almost nothing and the kids are playing for the love of the game not for a fat paycheck. But you can't get beer at the concession stand.
I agree
August 15, 2007 - 10:48 ET by cvgbuckeyeBen has it right. I was an athlete in high school and college. 20 years ago, I got totally disinterested with all professional sports with the exception of following the Cincinnati Reds.
I am totally preoccupied with amateur sports, especially college football and basketball. I wouldn't watch the superbowl if they were holding it in my back yard.
Yeah, because college
August 15, 2007 - 11:49 ET by dvdaughtryYeah, because college sports cares nothing about money.
I am not for diversity. I am for what works.
On HS
August 16, 2007 - 07:08 ET by UnsaneIf only high school was in fact a school and not a training facility for athletes...
Res tantum valet quantum vendi potest.
It's all about the money
August 15, 2007 - 10:26 ET by scottbhI agree. Gone are the days when a normal person can take their whole family to the ballpark for a day of fun without taking out a second mortgage. However, the demand is still there so prices will continue to be high and many athletes will continue to be overpaid.
There are still a FEW decent role models out there that kids can look up to.
scotttbh
August 15, 2007 - 10:31 ET by shawn228I live in the Bay Area, I do not take my kid to see a Raiders game because its expensive, but lots of colorful language at the Silver and Black ballpark. Also the quarterback they drafted # one overall is still holding out for a lucritive contract.
Hate to spoil the party
August 15, 2007 - 11:53 ET by dvdaughtryIt's ALWAYS been about money, ever since the Blacksox and Ruth getting paid more than the President.
It's time to get over it. Or not participate.
I am not for diversity. I am for what works.
dvdddaughtry
August 15, 2007 - 13:07 ET by shawn228True, but Mickey Mantle made 100 k a year. Yes I know there is inflation, but the really crazy money came when they gave the Texas Rangers gave that ridiculus contract to A-Rod. At least in the past players reported to camp if they were under contract. Now-adays they do not honor that contract and only show up for more money.
In the past we had great players like Babe Ruth, Mohammed Ali, Steve Young, Walter Payton. They have been replaced with Terrell Owens, Randy Moss, Barry Bonds and Mike Tyson.
Well, get ready for A-Rod
August 15, 2007 - 13:34 ET by dvdaughtryWell, get ready for A-Rod to up the ante. He can get out of his current deal and test the open waters of the market again. Hate Scott Boras all you want, but he is good at his job.
I have never resented these guys for pulling every dollar they can, and I don't think I ever will. I think it is America at its finest. No one has to pay them the money, but they do and the player deserves it for that reason alone.
But we definetly agree that the professional athlete has deteriorated in recent decades. Money surely is a suspect, but more, I think it is society as a whole.
They fall in line with the entertainment crowd. Money came so easy, they don't know what it is like to "earn" a living.
I am not for diversity. I am for what works.
I have never resented these
August 15, 2007 - 21:55 ET by general companyI have never resented these guys for pulling every dollar they can,
I do, I love sports of all kinds. But I wont pay for a shirt hat or ticket ever for a professional team. I refuse to help pay these overpriced athletes. I love the sport, but the money they make is insane, if we continue at this rate, who will be able to afford to go, the elite? That being said, I did go to Fenway a couple of weeks ago (free ticket) and we do go to the N.O. Zephers games (minor league Baseball) and I go to collage (LSU&SLU) Football and Baseball games.
Then in my opinion, you
August 16, 2007 - 08:52 ET by dvdaughtryThen in my opinion, you handle the situation correctly.
But don't fool yourself into thinking the college game (especially NCAA Division One) is purely competitive. Only a small percentage go to play pro sports, but the majority are trying.
I am not for diversity. I am for what works.
On A-rod and the tagline
August 16, 2007 - 07:09 ET by UnsaneI have to disagree. A-Rod was well worth $252 million. Why? Just read the tagline.
Res tantum valet quantum vendi potest.
}}---> good tagline
August 16, 2007 - 07:12 ET by Cool ArrowI wish I could contract him for what he's worth and sell his contract for what he thinks it's worth.
~LYDSEXICS UNTIE!~
On A-Rod
August 16, 2007 - 07:20 ET by UnsaneLOL
That would be an outstanding idea. Now, if I were to pay him what he was worth in the month of October...well, even I could afford his salary!
Res tantum valet quantum vendi potest.
If he was paid for winning
August 16, 2007 - 09:06 ET by dvdaughtryIf he was paid for winning you'd be correct. But these guys are paid by butts; butts they put in the seats. A-Rod sells Yankee crap in California, Florida, and across the globe.
The statistics are just symptom of the salary.
These guys create more money than what they get paid. It's that simple. Baseball is more popular now that it ever has been.
I am not for diversity. I am for what works.
No disrespect
August 15, 2007 - 13:58 ET by cvgbuckeyedvd: One of the most overused sayings in the world is "Ahhh, its all about money". What does that mean??? What is not about money? How many blocks down the street will you go without any money? How many days will you keep going to work if you quit getting paid MONEY? When is the last time that you walked past a dollar bill lying on the street without picking it up?
ITS ALL ABOUT THE MONEY!!! What rocket scientists we are.
Everything is about the money except Jesus Christ and the salvation of our souls. THAT has been paid for;;it is free.
Not sure if you are getting
August 15, 2007 - 14:08 ET by dvdaughtryNot sure if you are getting onto me, or the others, but that is the point I was attempting to make.
I am not for diversity. I am for what works.
No-no
August 15, 2007 - 15:03 ET by cvgbuckeyeSorry for the misunderstanding, dvd. I was agreeing with you; probably just getting over-demonstrative, as usual. Sorry
It's a corporate perk
August 15, 2007 - 12:57 ET by KC MulvilleHow can the prices keep going up, without affecting the demand? Simple. Just about every corporation these days hands out tickets to grease the client relationship. Going to the ballpark isn't so much a family event as it is a corporate perk. As I understand it, most corporations can write off (at least) some of the cost in taxes. I don't see anything wrong with that, necessarily. The owners are in the business to make money, and they've calculated where the most money is. That's why they call them "professional" sports.
That having been said, I regret that there are almost no public gathering places anymore. In ancient history (i.e., before television), people entertained themselves in public parks with carnivals, fairs and festivals, and even an occasional traveling circus. Those were usually affordable for a family, and it was fun. Sports were part of that whole environment, but that environment is long gone. Now, there's almost no affordable public entertainment. You can find that in some places in the Midwest, but on the east coast where I live now, it's a distant memory. Our public entertainment, and our collective gathering place, is now the television. I think we're the poorer for it. But, every generation faces the transition from the old to the new. Who knows what my kids will tell the grandchildren of their good old days? ("We used to have boxes on the desk, and we called them computers...")
Some people yearn for the good old days. Good luck with that.
Soccer is the NEW game in town...
August 15, 2007 - 10:39 ET by JayTeeSoccer MSL, is courting fans with New stadiums, Cheap hot DOGS and BEER, and a party Atmosphere.....
Go to the new Stadium in Dallas......Northeast area...Frisco Tx.
OR- Join the GATHERINGOFEAGLES.ORG for the Sept. 15th anti-Moonbat DC demonstration.....new sport...kicking around Moonbat dialog. Bring your own Hot Dogs.
What good is a Free Press, if it is a False Press ? David Foote GoE
Boringball
August 15, 2007 - 11:06 ET by Six String SpiffI can't stand baseball. The first time I heard about the players going on strike, it left a very foul taste in my mouth. Baseball is ALL about the money, now. Football makes you work for your money.
The American Revolution Continued
No Mas
August 15, 2007 - 11:17 ET by the mad poleIt's easier to walk away if you're e Detroit fan.
}}---> Detroit fans
August 15, 2007 - 11:22 ET by Cool ArrowThey did have Norm Cash, Rocky Colavito, and Al Kaline.
Guess it's been a while since I paid attention to them.
~LYDSEXICS UNTIE!~
Detroit
August 15, 2007 - 11:33 ET by the mad poleI can name everyone on the 68' and 84' rosters, that's how fine and rare it was. I took my kids to a game and they just wanted who's autograph could fetch the biggest monetary gain
Tigers fans?
August 15, 2007 - 12:17 ET by scottbhI'm just amazed there are more than 4 Tigers fans out there (including me).
Lolich, Wert, Stanley....
August 15, 2007 - 19:04 ET by KarmaI can name the 68' team but only a good portion of the 84' roster. Somewhere along the line, the money and attitudes turned me away from supporting (professional) sports in general. However, it will be a great evening tonight as the Tigs' maul the Indians again!!
Sad day in Cleveland when
August 15, 2007 - 13:59 ET by stratmanSad day in Cleveland when Rocky was traded to Detroit. Ditto for Norm Cash, in retrospect, and made worse because the Tribe also gave away Minnie Minoso to the ChiSox to get Cash in the first place.
I'm pretty sure I have all their baseball cards - unless my mother cleaned the attic in the past 40 years. (Why do they do that?!?)
Speaking of the Tigers, I once met Denny McLaine after he gave an organ recital as PR for an organ manufacturer. Near the end of the show he asked audience members to stump him on a song. You had to prove the song by singing it in front of everyone. I won a ball from him which he later signed but was a jerk about the whole thing. Turns out he was a big jerk at a lot of other places. I think I got rid of his baseball card and let the dog chew the ball.
Killing them with kindness isn't working. Time to get scrappy with the Donkeys.
My son and I attended the
August 15, 2007 - 11:25 ET by BruzillaMy son and I attended the Pittsburgh Steelers Fan Blitz at Hienz Field this past April, and we had been standing in line for over an hour waiting to get autographs. As we neared the table where the players sat, there was a pretty popular current player sitting with a veteran player from the 1970s. The current player was decked out in nice clothes and had a Rolex with more diamonds than a jewelery store on, the veteran was dressed casually. The current player stayed seated and signed items, while the veteran stood, greeted each fan, shook hands etc.
As we neared the table, the current player motioned over an assistant, talked to her, and she started walking along the line telling everyone that the current player had another event to attend and was going to be leaving before the autograph period was up. There was a lot of moaning coming from the line as people had been waiting a long time and now this guy was leaving 45 minutes early. I was close enough to the table to hear the veteran telling the current guy "before you leave you might want to remember where the money for that Rolex comes from." The current player looked at the line of fans, paused for a second, called the assistant back over and she started telling everyone that the player had decided that he would stay and sign.
I wish more players would think about who's really paying their salaries.
Bruzilla, As a long-time
August 15, 2007 - 11:41 ET by NCConservativeBruzilla,
As a long-time Steelers fan, you have raised my curiosity over who these players were. If you don't want to say here, would you mind sending it in a PM? I promise to keep the information to myself!
The veteran was Mike Wagner.
August 15, 2007 - 11:53 ET by BruzillaThe veteran was Mike Wagner. I PM'd you the other name. And by the way, Dwight White was out there wayyyy past his scheduled time for signing. It wouldn't surprise me if he stayed there from the time the fan fest started to the time he said goodbye to the last fan out the gate. That guy is a true supporter of the fans!
}}---> Elvis is still dead
August 15, 2007 - 10:19 ET by Cool ArrowCroaked on the throne.
~LYDSEXICS UNTIE!~
Elvis wasn't
August 15, 2007 - 10:43 ET by JayTeeThinking outside the Toilet.......
What good is a Free Press, if it is a False Press ? David Foote GoE
Cool, Elvis is still
August 15, 2007 - 10:49 ET by MikeBCool, Elvis is still dead? Are you sure? My cousin's ex-girlfriend's brother's friend's sister swears she saw him in the food court at the Gotebo, OK mall just last week.
Now, what I would really like to know is: is Anna Nichole Smith still dead?
"A communist is someone who reads Marx. An anti-communist is someone who understands Marx." Ronald Reagan
}}---> fraid so Mike
August 15, 2007 - 11:16 ET by Cool ArrowOne of the great decomposers of our time.
~LYDSEXICS UNTIE!~
Your Wrong!
August 15, 2007 - 12:07 ET by rob6677Elvis is not dead, he just left the building!
"I'm interested in the fact that the less secure a man is, the more likely he is to have extreme prejudice." Clint Eastwood
Newark Massacre- Where's Sharpton???
August 15, 2007 - 10:28 ET by Apollo77I'm just wondering why Al Sharpton and his minions aren't all over this recent Newark massacre. Is it simply because the alleged perpetrators weren't white?
These illegal immigrants took the lives of three very promising young people from a harsh inner city. I would think at least Mr. Sharpton could come alongside the victims families and call for a tougher justice system that has obviously given a pass to these illegals.
Ohh yea.. that's right.. He's going to be too busy monitoring Imus to get involved in the Newark tragedy....
Apollo....Now there's a good comment
August 15, 2007 - 10:42 ET by JayTeeJesse J. and Al Baby whould get some E-mails/calls, asking what you're asking about.
What good is a Free Press, if it is a False Press ? David Foote GoE
Newark Murders
August 15, 2007 - 10:43 ET by Six String SpiffCaution: This punishment will fit the crime.
These illegals should have their legs and arms blown off at the knees and elbows and then tossed into the ocean to float home. No wasted court fees. No ICE/INS to fumble around and waste my money. It would be cool to watch them get launched from a catapult... right into a brick wall. I wish them suffering, and misery to spare. Other than that, I have no strong feelings on the matter.
The American Revolution Continued
Spiff How about a cake
August 15, 2007 - 11:13 ET by Airforce_5_OSpiff
How about a cake walk with land mines?
The only thing you should feel when shooting insurgents is the rifle recoil.
better yet
August 15, 2007 - 11:23 ET by the mad poleFirst make them watch Hillary shower and shave with Allbright and Reno.
OH come on MAD I was
August 15, 2007 - 11:28 ET by Airforce_5_OOH come on MAD
I was eating lunch! Thanks a million.
The only thing you should feel when shooting insurgents is the rifle recoil.
}}---> The Dem antidote
August 15, 2007 - 11:28 ET by Cool ArrowFinally something more effective than Ipecac.
~LYDSEXICS UNTIE!~
Oh my GAAAHDD!!!
August 15, 2007 - 11:33 ET by Six String SpiffI just sunk deep into my chair cringing on that one...
"Things that make you go.. buhhhhh" - Ron White
The American Revolution Continued
}}---> Bucket of chicken
August 15, 2007 - 11:40 ET by Cool ArrowI'll have a large order of Bingo Wings
~LYDSEXICS UNTIE!~
Uglier than Hillary!
August 15, 2007 - 11:59 ET by PawpawNYou know when she went into the White House as First Lady she told them there would be no one woman better looking than her in the White House & all they could come up with was Janet Reno & Madeline Albright! Geez, just think what we have to look forward to when she becomes Prez!!!
Trying to think this through...
August 15, 2007 - 10:25 ET by inquiringmindI've been puzzeling on something for a while now and I thought I'd run it past you all for discussion and further thinking.
My wife, who is a left thinking woman has maintained that abortion should remain legal. Her fovorite saying is " I don't want the government telling me what to do with my body".
I think I've finally come up with answer and that is that it stopped being about your body when you became pregnant. It's now about an unborn childs body. The government isn't telling you what you can do with your body but rather the childs.
Simplistic but I think that answers the question. Your thoughts.
DM
Changed views
August 15, 2007 - 10:32 ET by scottbhWhile I consider myself a centrist (though I hesitate to use that term that is overused by Shrillary), I was a pro-choice guy until a few years ago. The reason I did the Kerry flip-flop was basically for the exact reason that you mentioned. In my marriage, the tables were reversed. I felt that a woman should be able to make that decision herself. My wife was looking out for the children that can't look out for themselves....just like our government should be.
Inquiring, now here's a
August 15, 2007 - 10:41 ET by MikeBInquiring, now here's a real conundrum: unless the law has recently changed, in the state of Oklahoma, for a man to get a vasectomy, the wife must give her permission for the procedure! In the case of vasectomy, it is only the man's body involved, and only about an inch of each vas deferens (if that much) is destroyed. It seems to me that the argument of the baby-killing crowd applies in this situation, and does not apply at all in the case of abortion. You are absolutely correct in that it is the body of the unborn child and not the anti-mother at risk.
"A communist is someone who reads Marx. An anti-communist is someone who understands Marx." Ronald Reagan
Microsurgical Reversal
August 15, 2007 - 10:45 ET by scottbhMike, Additionally (according to some giant billboards), vasectomies can actually be reversed. Interesting perspective.
Pregnant
August 15, 2007 - 11:52 ET by JDWDo pregnant women eat only for themselves or for two?
JDW
News media: Scoreboard for terrorists
A totally lame argument
August 15, 2007 - 10:44 ET by HelenSI don't understand the argument that a woman can do what she wants with her body.
For one thing, killing a child is not doing anything to your own body except saving it from the ravages of stretch marks and child-birth. It wreaks total havoc on the body of a totally separate little life.
For another thing, no a woman cannot do what she likes with her body or else drugs would be legal for women, there would be no discouragement of prostitution anywhere, and driving while drunk would be just fine and dandy (and even encouraged! as long as there is little danger of hurting anyone else except tiny babies).
It is a medically ignorant argument.
"Cry havoc and let slip the dogs of war" - Shakespeare
I'm a pro-abortion (aka
August 15, 2007 - 10:44 ET by BruzillaI'm a pro-abortion (aka pro-choice in Democrat speak) Republican, and while I'm against partial-birth abortions, I'm all for first, and some second, trimester abortions for women, and couples, who aren't up to the task of being parents. I've heard all the "life is sacred" arguments from the pro-life crowd, but there are two aspects I have issues with.
First, if the situation really is all about the life of the unborn child, why are so many pro-life people approving of exceptions for the health of the mother? Why is a mother's health more important than the baby's? And if you're going to make this exception, then why shouldn't other people make exceptions based on their views? I think if you're going to make the argument that abortion is wrong, then it should always be wrong and not just wrong in some instances.
Second, most pro-lifers have their views derived from whatever religion they practice. Being an Agnostic I don't have that issue, but I find it interesting that religious people will talk about "God's will", or "God's guidance", time and time again, yet when it comes time do decide to abort a baby to protect the mother, the thought that it's "God's will" that the mother dies and the child lives never comes into play. It's like people say "We want to live our lives in the manner that God wants us to, and to meet his call for being more caring and... wait... what's that you say... my wife might die? Screw what God wants... abort the kid!" This is a crass oversimplification I will grant you, but that's the way I see it.
That is a MSM myth
August 15, 2007 - 12:01 ET by SouthJersey1953you will find VERY FEW pro-life people that think abortion should be legal "to save the life of the mother" That is a MSM myth. 1 out of 1 million abortions are to "save the life of the mother."
No RINOs in '08 - Thompson/Hunter would be a good ticket; Thompson/Steele would be a great ticket
What!!! You can't be
August 15, 2007 - 12:14 ET by BruzillaWhat!!! You can't be serious! Even Ann Coulter is for exceptions.
My reasons for being
August 15, 2007 - 12:09 ET by Hero SquadMy reasons for being pro-life have nothing to do with my religion.
1. A powerful influence was a friend of mine who was adopted when he was born in 1971. He felt that, had he been born two years later, following Roe v. Wade, he might not be here today.
2. The mother of a friend of mine was pregnant, and happy to be so. Her husband, not so. He pressured her and even threatened to leave her, and sadly she acquiesced to his demand. It was a case where this was clearly not the woman's choice. And their marriage dissolved anyway about 6 months later.
3. My wife and I lost a baby during pregnancy a little over two years ago. It's still tough, especially since we saw many times our daughter's heartbeat. You cannot convince me that was anything but a baby in there, and it angered me to think that so many people receive this gift of life and just toss it away for convenience purposes.
*****
"Some people have a way with words. Other people, er, I don't know. Not have way, I guess." - Steve Martin
Hence, the reason I said
August 15, 2007 - 12:15 ET by BruzillaHence, the reason I said "most pro-lifers". I know there are people who derive their positions from something other than religion.
Pregnancy is a choice
August 15, 2007 - 22:15 ET by general companyIf you don't want a child, don't get pregnant. Be responsible, not ridiculous.
I agree, a women should
August 15, 2007 - 22:31 ET by mandrakeI agree, a women should always carry a condom with her so she can ask the rapist to put it on before he rapes her.
mandrake
August 15, 2007 - 22:34 ET by botgany idea of how many pregnancies there are per year as a result of rape?
"Television is where you watch people in your living room that you would not want near your house." Groucho
botg
August 15, 2007 - 22:47 ET by mandrakeNo I don't. But since there seems to be no liberal female voices on this site, I decided to be a little contrary. I have three girls. I have my own beliefs, but I don't want others deciding what they can and cannot do.
so we legislate the
August 15, 2007 - 22:50 ET by botgso we legislate the 'exception of law'? I needed to get to the hospital quickly once therefore we shouldn't have speed limits.
"Television is where you watch people in your living room that you would not want near your house." Groucho
What?? I believe we were
August 15, 2007 - 23:00 ET by mandrakeWhat??
I believe we were discussing a women's right to choose. A discussion held between her, the doctor and her God. So where do you or the speed limit fit in?
BTW, I raised my girls as Catholics.
"I think if you're going to
August 15, 2007 - 12:48 ET by ckc1227"I think if you're going to make the argument that abortion is wrong,
then it should always be wrong and not just wrong in some instances."
No offense, but that's the kind of unintelligent argument a kid would make, or a clueless lib(as if there is a difference, lol).
We don't live in a vaccuum. Just because all abortions share the same name doesn't mean all abortions are the same. If you can't distinguish between having an abortion because "I want to go to the rodeo", as happened in Kansas, and a mother deciding between ending her life or her child's, then there really isn't much else that needs to be said, as you are too far gone on this issue.
Case in point:
"I'm all for first, and some second, trimester abortions for women, and couples, who aren't up to the task of being parents."
Who says they have to be the parents? The demand for adoptable newborns far exceeds the supply in this country.
It's always wrong...
August 15, 2007 - 13:14 ET by vrwc13I think if you're going to make the argument that abortion is wrong, then it should always be wrong and not just wrong in some instances.
Actually there are many of us who do believe it's always wrong.
(from Wikipedia)
As far as the "risk to fetal or maternal health" it would be considered a medical decision/procedure that a competent doctor, following his/her sworn oath, would consider along with the family.
v
"Even before I was born, God had chosen me to be His" (Galatians 1:15).
You're painting with too
August 15, 2007 - 13:57 ET by winston smithYou're painting with too broad a brush. The actual statistic for abortions to save the life of the mother is something like 2.5% of total no. of U.S. abortions. And I'm sure the final decision to abort the unborn does not result in the exclamation, "Screw what God Wants.....abort the kids". I completely agree with you, that is a "crass oversimplification". Newborns can be given up for adoption to thousands of loving, able couples, unable to conceive, who have the means to care for the child if the biological mother and father can't. Don't be selfish. Give the baby a chance ---- the very same chance you had! Abortion is a nearly always a selfish decision by those who won't consider the life of the unborn.
A couple points
August 15, 2007 - 13:53 ET by KC Mulville"Why is a mother's health more important than the baby's?" It isn't, but pro-life doesn't mean that the mother doesn't count. It depends on the degree of legitimate threat to the mother's life. If you agree that a fetus is a full human being, that's pro-life. Once you agree to that, you must treat the mother and the child equally. In that case, the mother has as much right to live as the child. If you can only save one, the choice is morally neutral. And frankly, if that mother has other children to raise, that's a legitimate concern.
However, that depends on the idea that a mother's life is actually in jeopardy. What we pro-lifers detest is the scam that having a baby will "upset" the mother, and treating her feelings as a life-or-death threat. The exception for the life of the mother should really be restricted to her physical health.
As for the religious aspect, you have to make a distinction between (a) a merely religious doctrine, and (b) a law that an organized religion considers important. I'll speak about my own church, the Catholic church. We think that abortion is important, and it's a practice that should be banned, but not because of Catholicism. We also think embezzlement should be banned, but no one thinks anti-embezzlement is a "Catholic" issue. It's a practice that violates humanity, never mind their religion.
I think you make a perfect
August 15, 2007 - 10:57 ET by rob6677I think you make a perfect argument with: "It's now about an unborn childs body." The same pro-choice libs keep complaining about our soldiers dying in Iraq(who choose to be there), but would rather kill babies that don't have a choice.
The only pro-choice aspect I do believe in, is if a woman is raped and becomes pregnant, I know that's still killing an unborn child but she should not have to live with more of a reminder than the incident itself which she had no choice in!
Of course the solution for that problem(rapists) lyes elswhere, and could eliminate my previous statement.
"I'm interested in the fact that the less secure a man is, the more likely he is to have extreme prejudice." Clint Eastwood
No innocent life should be
August 15, 2007 - 11:06 ET by ErgoDyneNo innocent life should be taken, regardless of the situation. Last I checked, roughly 91% of pregnant-by-rape victims chose to keep their child. It doesn't really seem to be much of an issue.
I'm all for first, and some second, trimester abortions for women, and couples, who aren't up to the task of being parents.
Maybe they shouldn't be having unprotected sex if they're not up to the task of being parents.
I don't understand why it's okay for people to have unprotected sex, and ignore the responsibility behind it. With pregnancies, we've eliminated the repercussions, so more people are doing it.
If we eliminated the repercussions for murder, more people would do it. It's simple, really.
I'm against picketing, but I don't know how to show it.
Yours is a view that I can
August 15, 2007 - 11:28 ET by BruzillaYours is a view that I can respect!!! If something is wrong, it's wrong... not just wrong some of the time.
I was only advocating the
August 15, 2007 - 11:34 ET by rob6677I was only advocating the "pregnant-by-rape" aspect, don't lump me in with the "kill em all" conservative that posted before!
I did not have any statistics to report, but if 91% of them go through with the pregnancy that as you said doesn't make it much of an issue, and I can go back to being pro-life all the way!
"I'm interested in the fact that the less secure a man is, the more likely he is to have extreme prejudice." Clint Eastwood
But to your original point,
August 15, 2007 - 12:25 ET by BruzillaBut to your original point, you placed the mother's well being above the child's. The rapist was the criminal, the child is totally innocent. So why should a mother's feelings be more important than a child's life, regardless of whether she wants to have the child or not? To the original post, if the argument is that it's not just about the mother's body but the child's too, how does one possibly justify killing a baby to protect the feelings of the mother?
It's positions like this one that make me question the logic of the pro-life movement.
The point was that she had
August 15, 2007 - 13:27 ET by rob6677The point was that she had no choice in becoming pregnant, I understand where you are going with this, this is just the one and only exception I could make to otherwise being completely pro-life.
As someone stated in a previous comment, that 90% of these raped women go through with the pregnancy, if this is indeed the facts, then my exception has no weight in this.
I have never been raped to pregnancy because I am not a woman and would not pretend to think I would know what to do, I do know that as such it is not for me or anyone to impose some expectation when you have not or could not live that!!!
"I'm interested in the fact that the less secure a man is, the more likely he is to have extreme prejudice." Clint Eastwood
This has been an
August 15, 2007 - 19:24 ET by BlondeThis has been an interesting discussion.
I am anti-abortion (I think "pro-life" has ugly lib connotations, BTW) because I believe abortion is the most idiotic way to practice birth control that could possibly be imagined. It's just wrong. And it's ignorant, and lazy, and just plain stupid. Not to mention morally a chickens*** way of thinking.
Seriously, if one chooses to have sex, one can choose not to become pregnant in this day and age. The liberal argument of "controlling one's own body" is moronic. The time to "choose" controlling one's own body is before one makes the big jump between the sheets.....puhleeease!
Having said that....rape is another thing entirely. But there's this little thing called the morning after pill, and from a strictly logical standpoint, I think that works to counter balance all of the "pro-choice" arguments. I'd never consider it myself, but for me, it's a "choice" that is acceptable....and why not? I've never walked in those shoes and wouldn't presume to force that on another human being. But my thinking is that a day after conception is still a cellular matter.
Medical conditions during pregnancy are an entirely different matter. But I can't imagine a woman who'd put her own welfare before that of her potential child's....but hey, that's just me.
Solution
August 16, 2007 - 06:27 ET by rob6677Keep your pants on blonde(choice), my ultimate point here, is if anyone can give a good plan of action to stop rapists, then the real problem is solved. Two wrongs do not make it right. Prevent/fix the first wrong and the second is not an issue to be debated over.
"I'm interested in the fact that the less secure a man is, the more likely he is to have extreme prejudice." Clint Eastwood
rob, I didn't explain my
August 16, 2007 - 19:00 ET by Blonderob,
I didn't explain my point about the day-after pill very well, after re-reading that, so let me rephrase the point I was trying to get across.
I agree with your point one hundred percent...Prevent/fix the first wrong and the second is not an issue to be debated over.
Preventing any rape in the first place is the obvious best thing that could be done. But in the real world, it does happen. In the instance of rape, I think the morning-after pill is an acceptable option for the victim. The "fix" if you will.
And here is where my post above went awry...I said something like it takes away the argument for pro-choice or something similar (I can't see my post only yours). What I was trying to say is that it takes away the "rape" argument from those who would wish to keep abortion legal. I never in a million years would advocate it as a form of birth control.
As I said in my first post (rather clearly) the time to prevent pregnancy is prior to having consensual sex.
And thanks for your concern, my pants are still on. :)
* Blonde
August 17, 2007 - 03:54 ET by rob6677I get what your saying, and think that is probably the best solution to unwanted pregnancy by rape. And yes the consensual/casual crowd have no stand for abortion, they only need to keep their pants on! (keeping their pants on is effecting our culture in many more ways[see Jerry Springer]).
I'm glad you have pants on while commenting!
"I'm interested in the fact that the less secure a man is, the more likely he is to have extreme prejudice." Clint Eastwood
While on vacation this past
August 15, 2007 - 11:40 ET by Airforce_5_OWhile on vacation this past weekend in the montians of NC i saw a hand made sign in front of a house
This how it went.
"Dear God please send us someone to bring world peace, cure cancer and AID's.'
God: " I did but you aborted them."
I think that says it all.
The only thing you should feel when shooting insurgents is the rifle recoil.
EXCELLENT!!!
August 15, 2007 - 12:03 ET by SouthJersey1953EXCELLENT!!!
No RINOs in '08 - Thompson/Hunter would be a good ticket; Thompson/Steele would be a great ticket
Then if this savior were
August 15, 2007 - 12:18 ET by BruzillaThen if this savior were aborted, wouldn't it have been God's will that he/she were aborted?
Free will. It's why
August 15, 2007 - 12:42 ET by dabalFree will. It's why there's a heaven and hell, according to Biblical scholars.
"Free will."
"Can I ask why?"
"Yes. That's the beauty of it!"
It's God's will to prevent
August 15, 2007 - 12:48 ET by vrwc13It's God's will to prevent what He prevents and to allow what He allows. For us, some day we will all be accountable for what we did. I personally believe that killing unborn children won't go over well with Him.
"Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, before you were born I set you apart" (Jeremiah 1:5). - God
"Even before I was born, God had chosen me to be His" (Galatians 1:15). - God
"For You created my inmost being; You knit me together in my mothers womb . . . Your eyes saw my unformed body. All the days ordained for me were written in Your book before one of them came to be" (Psalm 139:13, 16). - God
Right to abortion
August 15, 2007 - 22:50 ET by shawn228I used to be 100% pro choice about 6 months ago. I am now 100 against partial birth abortion. I also support a womans right to abort a child if she knows the child will have downs syndrome or disfigured. I am still on the fence but I am leaning towards agreeing with outlawing abortion in other circumstances. The reason? Someone on this site challenged me to look at this site. Warning....it is extremely graphic, but it will make you think twice