Scarborough Attempts To Sedate Delusional Joe Klein

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Is there a doctor within shouting distance of 30 Rockefeller Center?  Joe Klein, a guest on this morning’s edition of MSNBC’s “Morning Joe” is suffering from massive historical hallucinations.

In fact, just make that general hallucinations.

Among the litany of reality-bending ideas he presented were:

  • The overheated rhetoric during the Bush years was much less disturbing than the overheated rhetoric now
  • That the Democrat Party immediately spoke out en masse against the infamous MoveOn.org advertisement which called General David Petraeus “General Betray-Us”
  • That the current health care bill will not lead to rationing of care 
  • That moving doctors to a salary-based system rather than a pay-for-procedure system would cause an improvement in said health-care system
  • That all conservative arguments against the currently proposed health-care plan are, in a word, fantasy
  • And last but not least, the obligatory assertion that Republicans are generally racists.

No, I am not exaggerating in the slightest.  The transcript for this is quite long, so I apologize in advance for the epic length of this post.  Liberal bilge, however, requires the proper plumbing.

Klein’s original commentary occurred in his latest column, which diagnosed a “public malignancy” in the current atmosphere of debate (h/t Marc Sheppard):

JOE SCARBOROUGH: You talk about the malignancy, let's talk about the Bush years. I know a lot of people, not you, but a lot of people hate when I bring this up. During the heart of the Bush years, one poll showed that 1 in 3 Americans believed that George W. Bush had something to do with September 11th.  34% of Americans believed George Bush had something to do with buildings being blown up. You yourself saw the anger and the rage from the left when you just told the truth about how the surge is working in Anbar province.  You were torn to shreds –  for what?  For telling the truth.  If there is a malignancy, it has been growing for about a quarter century now, hasn’t it?

KLEIN: Yeah, I think it's part of the fabric of the new media environment. But there is a difference.  When, say, Moveon.org, did that, that disgraceful ad about General Petraeus – General Betray-us, remember that?  The strong voices, the leadership of the Democratic party disavowed that and said it was disgraceful and disgusting, which it was.  When Rush Limbaugh sets, and Glenn Beck sets the agenda for the Republican party, nobody –

Once more into the breach, then.  Klein is indicating here that conservatives (specifically, Republican conservatives) don’t speak out against the perceived wingnuts in the movement.  We’ll get back to that later, but in the meantime:

SCARBOROUGH: Wait a minute Joe, I am sorry. Joe, can I stop you?  I have somebody talking in my ear and I just want to make sure I get this right. Did you say the Democratic spoke out against the Moveon.org ad, or they went along with it?

KLEIN: No, they spoke out –

SCARBOROUGH: No they didn't.

KLEIN: Sure they did, Joe.

SCARBOROUGH: No they didn’t!  You had Rahm Emanuel accusing Petraeus of being a liar. Hillary Clinton sat back in silence. They didn’t step out and distance themselves from that ad for weeks!

KLEIN: They voted in the Congress – Take a look at the vote.

SCARBOROUGH: They were frozen in place for weeks, Joe. I am not upset with you. Let's not though, re-write history. Go back and look at what Rahm Emanuel himself said about General Petraeus.

KLEIN: I think that if you go back and look at it, Joe, you will find that there were a great many Democrats, and maybe not all, but a great many of them who stood up and said that was a bad thing to do. I know I certainly did, as a columnist.

Scarborough, to his credit, makes a good point.  If one burrowed down to the actual policy statement behind the infamous “Betray-Us” ad, it was about how General Petraeus was being accused of lying to the Congress.  Klein, while outing himself as a media Democrat, claims that Democrats leaped to Petraeus’s defense.  That is simply not the case.  Later in the segment, Morning Joe Executive Producer Chris Licht provided the evidence:

BRZEZINSKI: I want to go back to the issue of Petraeus Betray-us. What we were talking about earlier.  Chris, you have a follow-up to that, from the control room?

CHRIS LICHT, (Morning Joe Producer): This is from New York Post, September 13th, 2007. The reports that you provide to us really require –

SCARBOROUGH: Who’s this talking?

LICHT: I’m sorry, Senator Clinton.

SCARBOROUGH: Hillary Clinton, who was then a Senator – so she was, this was when she was speaking to General Petraeus in the committee.

LICHT: “The reports you provide to us really require the willing suspension of disbelief.”  She went on to say that he was a de facto spokesperson for a failed policy, and pointedly refused to criticize the ad which called him an outright liar who would betray his nation.

SCARBOROUGH: And do you have a Rahm quote?  Rahm Emanuel?

LICHT: Yes.  “We don’t need a report that wins the Nobel prize for creative statistics, or the Pulitzer for fiction.”

SCARBOROUGH: And where did Rahm say that?

LICHT: Let me check.

SCARBOROUGH: It was a leading question, he said it on the House floor. Where Joe Wilson called the President a liar.

LICHT: September 7th on the floor

SCARBOROUGH: Sounds like Petraeus, a general, is being called a liar there.

Oh, the false outrage at a President being called a liar – in the same place where Petraeus, leader in the winning of the unwinnable war, was also called a liar for advocating a policy which – you guessed it – succeeded beyond even the Republicans’ expectations.

Moving on, so to speak, to a different liberal fallacy, Klein actually claims that the currently proposed system will not lead to rationing:

KLEIN: But the thing is, on the Republican side, this year we have had a history of people criticizing Rush Limbaugh, and then Rush Limbaugh comes backs and slams them and then they backtrack. I think that you don't have – and even what we saw just earlier, with Governor Pawlenty.  The stuff that he's threatening, this rationing – it's nonsense!  What we have now is a system where doctors are – we have the exact opposite of that system.  We have a system where doctors are rewarded for performing test after test after test after test on people. What we need – the reform that we need in this bill that is not in there is to pay doctors by salaries so that they give the elderly the treatment they need, but not all these tests that they don't need.

So, despite every other nationalized health care system in the world devolving into a rationed system, the new American system will not.  Not to mention the idea that he is pushing the idea that in moving doctors’ pay methods from a performance-based system to a salary-based system – hey, it works wonders for FEMA, right? –  would cause an improvement in the health care system’s performance.  

Next, Klein excuses the leftist loons of the Bush era, and calls conservative arguments against the current health care bill “fantasy:”

KLEIN: I know that.  But the quality of the commentary on both Clinton and on Obama is far more personal and far different. With George Bush you had a president who took us to war under false pretenses, who abandoned international rule of law -

SCARBOROUGH: Okay.  Now it sounds like you are justifying hate speeches on the left.

KLEIN: No, I am not. Listen, I am the one who criticized - I am the one that brought up the Betray-us ad and said that was over the line. But the fact is -  you had a Republican party 20 years ago when George H.W. Bush was president that really was an intellectually supple, creative organization. That has fallen away, and now you have the party that is dominated by these kinds of scurrilous - this kind of scurrilous nonsense. Democrats may be wrong and the left may go over the line. But if they have a bias, it's towards policy, it's toward undue idealism.

SCARBOROUGH: Oh, my god, Joe - Joe - a gallon of Kool-Aid for Joe Klein! Come on, Joe! They were not worried about policy back when Bush was President, when they were calling him Hitler and saying he was a Nazi and saying he wanted to shred the Constitution!

KLEIN: But the arguments against Bush and Iraq and tax cuts for the wealthy and so on were based on substance.  The argument on this health-care plan is all fantasy.

That requires very little in the way of explanation.  Last, but certainly not least, is the indication that Republicans are all racists:

KLEIN: But the fact is that those kind of heinous arguments I think are a minor chord in the Democratic party, and they have been in the Republican party, but they are far more of a major chord. And I think that a lot of this, especially out in poor middle class white American is based in racial fears.

Thirty-four percent of Americans, at one point, believed that George W. Bush was directly responsible for the horrifying act of terrorism that occurred eight years ago this morning.  That does not sound like a minor chord to most thinking individuals.  And in the midst of a rant on how low-brow the public debate has become, how productive is it to demonize people with whom you disagree as racists, while offering zero evidence for that idea?

Of course, hallucinations are stubborn things.


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This weasle

 has really gone off the deep end!

won a pulitzer? really?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

"The American Republic will endure, until politicians realize they can
bribe the people with their own money." – Alexis de Tocqueville

Has Klein always been this

Has Klein always been this rabid and such a water carrier for the Left? I don't remember him always being this way - maybe time has softened his words from back then. 

The "Mainstream" Media: By liberals. For liberals.

Is that the guy

that W called an a-hole while speaking with Cheney??  (that danged open mic trick again).

 And they call W stupid?  spot on, if you ask me (and if that's not the guy, it should've been) 

No, that was Adam Clymer of

No, that was Adam Clymer of the NYT.

 

Klein's delusions represent

Klein's delusions represent the liberal mindset (if you can call it that) today.  It's not that they disagree with conservatives, it's that they believe conservatives are evil.

They are the purveyors of "good" - thus it's completely logical in their way of "thinking" to consider anyone opposing them as evil. 

This self-delusion helps them sleep at night.

 

I saw this segment this

I saw this segment this morning...couldn't watch it all the way through.

Mr. Anonymous would have done himself much better if he had just remained that way...he has finally lost his last marble.

'Go Green...Recycle Congress'

I did contract a rather

I did contract a rather thick headache while transcribing this bilge.

 Never fear, however: I brought my own pain reliever, and do not require all of you to buy some for me.

Same as Olbermann

When Klein asserts that the Democrat objections were all based on "substance," that's pure egoism. It's the hubris of the self-adoring. He can't see substance in perspectives other than his own. But history proved them wrong: those Democrat objectives turned out to be wrong. The war was winnable, things could be turned around, etc.

  • I read the transcript of Olbermann's spew last night. His argument comes down to nothing more than Joe Wilson must be a hypocrite because he didn't speak out when Bush was lying. But that depends on the assumption that Bush was lying. Olbermann's accusations of hypocrisy depend on the "crime" of Wilson not agreeing with him.

The hubris in these liberal attitudes is that if they don't like your disagreement, they deny your right to disagreement. That means the only disagreements they accept are ones that don't threaten them. If your disagreements challenge their core principles, or attack their assumptions, they simply regard your criticisms as deranged or spurred by bad motives, and they deny your right to disagree.

 

Joe Klein, ladies and

Joe Klein, ladies and gentlemen....the new poster child for the "don't do drugs" movement. Geez, why don't you make it official already Klein, and go work for the DNC? Seriously, could you have dropped any more Democrat talking points?

But they aren't DNC

But they aren't DNC talking-points.  They're Kos talking points.  I know, there's not much difference, but accuracy is important :D

"We have a system where...

...doctors are rewarded for performing test after test after test on people".

Joe Klein...are you so damn stupid that you don't realize tort LAWYERS are rewarded if doctors DON'T perform test after test after test on people? What a putz!

"What a revoltin' development this is!"

Chester Riley

Oh, I get it. Klein had a lobotomy

-Dave

I agree with Rush. It's time for Obama to resign.

Boy, he got that completely bass ackward.

KLEIN: But the arguments against Bush and Iraq and tax cuts for the wealthy and so on were based on substance.  The argument on this health-care plan is all fantasy.

  No, the arguments against Bush were all based on hatred.

  The Bush lied about WMD argument was complete bull as WMD was only a small reason for going in. The Rush to invade was bull as we waited 12 years for Saddam to clean up his act between the 2 gulf wars. The democrats were only against the Iraq to use it as a political tool. Witness the results since we have a new President. No one cares about Iraq anymore. It is a complete non-issue.

  Then there is the tax cuts for the wealthy bull. Of course the tax cuts were for the wealthy. They pay most of the taxes. The burden of taxes falls largely on the wealthy.

  Sorry, but the arguments against health care are based on substance. People rightly see a bigger tax burden coming out of it. They see expansion of the government bureaucracy. They see government benefits going to illegal aliens. They see rationing. They see no real reform in the way of tort reform, removal of the 3rd party payer, and deregulation of insurers. Insurers should be able to cross state lines and offer different packages. Packages from bare bones to full coverage to catastrophic only. 

Bass ackward. 

Sincerely,

a Veteran of a 1000 psychic wars.

Why doesn't someone get a liberal's response to this story?

 

Ten men go out for beer. The bill for all ten comes to $100. If they paid
their bill the way we pay our taxes, it would go something like this:

The first four men (the poorest) would pay nothing.
The fifth would pay $1.
The sixth would pay $3.
The seventh would pay $7.
The eighth would pay $12.
The ninth would pay $18.
The tenth man (the richest) would pay $59.

So, that's what they decided to do. The ten men drank in the bar every day
and seemed quite happy with the arrangement, until one day, the owner threw
them a curve. He said, "Since you are all such good customers, I'm going to
reduce the cost of your daily beer by $20. Drinks for the ten now cost just
$80."

The group still wanted to pay their bill the way we pay our taxes, so the
first four men were unaffected. They would still drink for free. But what
about the other six men -- the paying customers?

How could they divide the $20 windfall so that everyone would
get his "fair share"? They realized that $20 divided by six is $3.33. But
if they subtracted that from everybody's share, then the fifth man and the
sixth man would each end up being paid to drink his beer. So the bar owner
suggested that it would be fair to reduce each man's bill by roughly the
same amount, and he proceeded to work out the amounts each should pay!

And so:

The fifth man, like the first four, now paid nothing (100% savings).
The sixth now paid $2 instead of $3 (33%savings).
The seventh now pay $5 instead of $7 (28%savings).
The eighth now paid $9 instead of $12 (25% savings).
The ninth now paid $14 instead of $18 (22% savings).
The tenth now paid $49 instead of $59 (16% savings).

Each of the six was better off than before. And the first four

continued to drink for free. But once outside the restaurant, the men began
to compare their savings.

"I only got a dollar out of the $20," declared the sixth man. He

pointed to the tenth man, "but he got $10!"

"Yeah, that's right,' exclaimed the fifth man. "I only saved a dollar, too.
It's unfair that he got ten times more than I!"

"That's true!!"shouted the seventh man. "Why should he get $10 back when I
got only $2 ? The wealthy get all the breaks!"

"Wait a minute," yelled the first four men in unison. "We didn't get
anything at all. The system exploits the poor!"
The nine men surrounded the tenth and beat him up.

The next night the tenth man didn't show up for drinks, so the
nine sat down and had beers without him. But when it came
time to pay the bill, they discovered something important.

They didn't have enough money between all of them for even half of the bill!

"What experience and history teach is
this - that people and governments never have learned anything from history,
or acted on principles deduced from it."


G. W. F. Hegel

Joe Klein never saw a fact

 which he made up which wasn't true.  Probably helped Dan Rather analyze the fax about George W. Bush's NG Service.

"What experience and history teach is
this - that people and governments never have learned anything from history,
or acted on principles deduced from it."


G. W. F. Hegel

Coo Coo Ca Choo

"Listen, I am the one who criticized"

So, Klein is now "The strong voices, the leadership of the Democratic part" that he claimed earlier? He went from claiming that the "the leadership of the Democratic" "disavowed" the ad to "I am the one" who "disavowed" it.  It's looks like Kline attributes himself the power of the Democratic  leadership.  In Kline's mind, he IS the leadership!  Yet he has the audacity to claim that Rush Limbaugh and Glenn Beck set policy for the Republican party. 

Klein, project much?  You're attributing Rush and Beck the "leadership" fantasy that you, yourself, believe  you have over the Democratic party!  You ARE the leader, right?

Yea, right, Kline, and I AM the Walrus!  Koo Koo Ca Choo!

The Citizens of each State shall be entitled to all Privileges and Immunities of Citizens in the several States.
The US Constitution

Unless you're a fetus.
The US Supreme Court

those glasses J S is wearing !!! he's gone over

to the other side...no matter what he says those specs are definitely a left wing attribute.....he and Smerconish are being chummed out to right wing viewers/listeners but they are both gone over no matter what they insist....

Paarl of Rhodesia