CNN daytime anchor Tony Harris has a bit of a different perspective on the Henry Louis Gates arrest.
Around 12:31 PM, after the Massachusetts Municipal Police Coalition held a press conference defending Sgt. Crowley’s conduct in the arrest of Harvard Professor Henry Louis Gates, Harris spoke to the CNN reporter on the scene, Don Lemon. Having been informed that one of the reasons the union decided to hold the press conference was a sinking morale among officers after President Obama’s remarks on the matter, Harris said:
HARRIS: I don't know why I was under the impression that this news conference, that by the end of it we would be closer to resolving this. I don't know why I thought that, but clearly, it looks like we may be more entrenched at this point with Cambridge police unions. The legal counsel for Cambridge police saying very clearly that they support the actions of the officer in this case and want an apology from the president.Don Lemon was in the room for this.
I thought this was pretty extraordinary, Don.
I was just saying a moment ago that, I don't know why, for whatever reason, I was in our meeting this morning and I thought by the end of this news conference, that we would be working closer to that moment when perhaps Sergeant Crowley and Professor Gates would be patching this thing up together. But I tell you what, it just feels like the divide, if it started here, it just got wider and wider and wider with each comment.
What are your thoughts in the room?
It’s easy to see in the transcript alone that Harris was shocked at the tone of the press conference, wherein a request was issued for President Obama to apologize for his comments about the Cambridge Police Department behaving “stupidly.” Lemon, sensing this, tried to explain the reasons why the police union decided to hold a press conference:
LEMON: I knew that there would be some fallout after I -- after it was told to me that the Superior Officers Association was going to have a press conference. I think they are very concerned with Gates' comments after the incident.They feel that it's been very one-sided, you know, to be honest with you, in the media about Gates. You've been hearing about Gates, but you haven't been hearing that much about the officer. Part of that, though, is the department's own fault, because they haven't really been transparent or allowing any of their officers to talk, and they didn't want Sergeant Crowley to speak as well. But as you saw, every -- just the sense of the community, as I got here yesterday and I went directly to the police department, you could sort of feel it in the air. The police commissioner said to me, morale is low here.
HARRIS: Yes.
LEMON: And it was -- you know, it was better before the president made his comments.
HARRIS: Well, Don, can I say something?
LEMON: They got low -- even lower after that because...
HARRIS: Yes.
LEMON: Well, hang on. Hang on. It got even lower after that because they thought that this was going to go away after a while, after the news cycle. But then once the president responded to it, they feel that it brought it back up again. And not only brought it back up, amped it up to a different level.
But Harris refused to let the union slide:
HARRIS: Gotcha. I gotcha. I get that. I get that. But here's my point. This is incendiary. Race in this country is powerfully incendiary.LEMON: Yes.
HARRIS: And I suppose I thought that both sides of this would take a step back, not listen to the news cycle.
LEMON: Yes.
HARRIS: Not base future comments on the last news cycle and make a determination that race is such a powerful . . .
LEMON: But, Tony . . .
HARRIS: Let me finish the thought. Is such a powerful factor in this country, that it would be better to take a step back and try to figure out a way to mend this.
LEMON: Yes.
HARRIS: Not deepen it.
The story here is not about the union’s response to President Obama; the story is the incredulity with which their response is received by Harris. Even after Lemon goes out of his way to explain the reasons why the union decided to hold a press conference, Harris still does not acknowledge the external factors which led to the response. Lemon clearly noted that the police department was not allowing its officers to respond to Gates’ allegations – but that when the President of the United States became involved, the damage to police morale became too much to ignore.
Despite this fact, Harris calls the union’s press conference “incendiary.”
That’s not quite a fair assessment, and Don Lemon was apparently very aware of that. The full transcript is available below.
CNN Newsroom
07/24/2009
12:30:00 PMHARRIS: Whoa. OK. Alan McDonald, legal counsel, Cambridge Police.
All right. How to proceed? How to move forward?
As you heard, Alan McDonald is asking for an apology not just from the president of the United States for his comments about the case, but also from the governor of Massachusetts, Deval Patrick. Both of those two men have acknowledged their friendship with Professor Gates.
And there is Crowley in the middle of the screen right there. Was present, but didn't offer any comments.
At one point, Alan McDonald suggesting that the president sort of shot from the hip with his remarks. Yes, without having all of the facts moving forward.
I don't know why I was under the impression that this news conference, that by the end of it we would be closer to resolving this. I don't know why I thought that, but clearly, it looks like we may be more entrenched at this point with Cambridge police unions. The legal counsel for Cambridge police saying very clearly that they support the actions of the officer in this case and want an apology from the president.
Don Lemon was in the room for this.
I thought this was pretty extraordinary, Don.
I was just saying a moment ago that, I don't know why, for whatever reason, I was in our meeting this morning and I thought by the end of this news conference, that we would be working closer to that moment when perhaps Sergeant Crowley and Professor Gates would be patching this thing up together. But I tell you what, it just feels like the divide, if it started here, it just got wider and wider and wider with each comment.
What are your thoughts in the room?
DON LEMON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, I'm surprised that you thought that. I mean, Tony, you've been doing this just as long as I have.
HARRIS: Yes.
LEMON: I knew that there would be some fallout after I -- after it was told to me that the Superior Officers Association was going to have a press conference. I think they are very concerned with Gates' comments after the incident.
They feel that it's been very one-sided, you know, to be honest with you, in the media about Gates. You've been hearing about Gates, but you haven't been hearing that much about the officer. Part of that, though, is the department's own fault, because they haven't really been transparent or allowing any of their officers to talk, and they didn't want Sergeant Crowley to speak as well. But as you saw, every -- just the sense of the community, as I got here yesterday and I went directly to the police department, you could sort of feel it in the air. The police commissioner said to me, morale is low here.
HARRIS: Yes.
LEMON: And it was -- you know, it was better before the president made his comments.
HARRIS: Well, Don, can I say something?
LEMON: They got low -- even lower after that because...
HARRIS: Yes.
LEMON: Well, hang on. Hang on. It got even lower after that because they thought that this was going to go away after a while, after the news cycle. But then once the president responded to it, they feel that it brought it back up again. And not only brought it back up, amped it up to a different level.
HARRIS: Gotcha. I gotcha. I get that. I get that. But here's my point. This is incendiary. Race in this country is powerfully incendiary.
LEMON: Yes.
HARRIS: And I suppose I thought that both sides of this would take a step back, not listen to the news cycle.
LEMON: Yes.
HARRIS: Not base future comments on the last news cycle and make a determination that race is such a powerful . . .
LEMON: But, Tony . . .
HARRIS: Let me finish the thought. Is such a powerful factor in this country, that it would be better to take a step back and try to figure out a way to mend this.
LEMON: Yes.
HARRIS: Not deepen it.
LEMON: That's what advisers on both sides are saying. Advisors from outside on both sides are saying, hey, listen, guys, tone down the rhetoric.
HARRIS: Take down the temperature on this.
LEMON: Take down the temperature on this and relax a little. Because, you know, the law enforcement community, we know, it is a community that bands together. It's very vocal. They're very protective and insular of their own. As well they should be. As well most people are.
And the same thing, when you have -- when you're talking about race, and especially African-American men and their relationship to police officers. I mean, most African-American men in this country have had some sort of incident, perceived or real, about feelings about being racially profiled.
HARRIS: OK and let me stop . . .
LEMON: I, for one, have had one that . . .
HARRIS: Yes, let me tee it up. Don, let me tee it up. Here's the thing.
LEMON: Yes.
HARRIS: And I say this because I want us to conduct this discussion here with total transparency. I know that you have had an incident in your life, and I'll let you explain it. But as you make these comments, I want folks to understand, you are working as a correspondent on this story, but you have had something in your life that doesn't -- that may be -- no, let me have you explain the incident and folks can make their own determination.
LEMON: No, I just thought it was complete transparency. I mean, we all have our lives. You know, we all have the lens that we come through. And my -- I didn't have anything with a police officer. It was something to do with something else, but there was racial profiling. It was settled out of court. I was right. The other party was wrong. And we settled out of court.
But here's the thing, everyone has incidents in their lives. And you have to judge each of them on the merits and on the circumstances. I'm sure there are many incidents where there are racially -- people are racially profiled and claim to be and it's accurate. And there are other incidents where people are -- who believe they are racially profiled and it is not.
Even with an incidents like that happening to me and to many other African-Americans and Latino, let's not forget, Latino, brown people, even with that, you still have to judge every single incident on the merits. There's always -- you know, we always say there's two sides to every story. Well, there's more than two sides to every story. As many people as you had witness, there can be eight sides to the story.
So you just have to -- you know, and it went away. I want to say that. Mine went away. The police officers, you know, came. They were great. So and I have great friends who are police officers. I've won awards for doing police officer stories. So I know there's good and bad on every side. But this is -- I think this is only going to ramp up now, though, Tony.
HARRIS: I agree with you. And that's where I want to bring it back to. I thought there was an opportunity here -- that's all I'm suggesting -- for us to begin to turn something of a corner. But when you hear statements in this news conference where the suggestion is that if anyone acted stupid or stupidly, it was Professor Gates.
LEMON: Right.
HARRIS: You're digging the hole deeper. You're lining up the forces on either side of this.
LEMON: Right.
HARRIS: And people are be -- are going to become more entrenched in their views. And where you are on this spectrum here is probably dependent largely on the kind of experiences you've had with police officers, and whether or not you're black or you're white in this country. And that was I think the opportunity missed to start to bridge this thing. And I'm not sure that that happened in this news conference. That's my only point. I'll give you the last word on it.
LEMON: Well, it depends on your lens. Everyone comes to -- into life in situations.
HARRIS: Well, that's what I just -- yes, that's what I just said.
LEMON: Yes, everyone comes through with their own, you know, history and notions and they look at view life through their own lens. But I just want to say this. The reason I said that -- I think this is going to ramp up.
And I think that you're right in this, that it should -- take down the volume because when I spoke to Professor Gates' attorney this morning, before he jumped on an airplane, he said that his reaction, his client's reaction, whether or not he's going to sue, will depend on how the police department handles it. They don't want the police department making his client out to be some crazy guy who went off on a police officer and lost his mind for a moment.
HARRIS: Yes, no, I got it.
LEMON: And if they do that, they said that the officer has been with the police department for a long time and it is open records and he will bring people forward who have had similar experiences to Professor Gates' by (ph) the same office.
HARRIS: And, Don, my last thought on this. There were choices here for Professor Gates. There were choices for this office.
LEMON: For the officer.
HARRIS: Absolutely. And, you know, other choices, we don't have this huge event. And, you're right, it is going to get bigger.
Don, let's leave it there for now. I know you'll be joining Kyra in just a couple of minutes.
LEMON: Thank you, sir.
HARRIS: And, Don, good back-and-forth. I love that. Thank you.
LEMON: All right. Thank you.



















Editor at Large
Comments Policy
cops should have profiled Obama
July 24, 2009 - 15:48 ET by sevenAccording to the Somerville Times in 2007, as a Harvard Law School student, Obama got 17 parking tickets during 1989-1991 from the Cambridge Police Department that he left unpaid until just weeks before he announced his bid for the presidency.
Look who is talkin. as a college punks he tells us what he things of law enforcement.
20 years to pay a ticket? 17 tickets. They could explain their holding up grade cards and transcripts.
Incendiary
July 24, 2009 - 17:25 ET by allanfI think that better describes Obama's words. He is President of all the American people now, not just the "disadvantaged". He has ginned up a unnessesary contoversy that cannot be put back into the bottle.
Exposed
July 24, 2009 - 21:25 ET by Dan DiegoObama has shown America that being black takes precedence over being President.
So liberals are surprised
July 24, 2009 - 15:52 ET by dscottSo liberals are surprised when the police won't roll over and take the firebomb lobbed in their laps? Think again libs, not everyone buys into the victimization arguments accepted by the loon toons, in fact most don't. If you don't like incendiary comments, then don't strike the match.
Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid, starving the poor one gallon of ethanol at a time. Fill your tank with E85 and cull a village.
And a union to boot!
July 24, 2009 - 18:37 ET by GalvanicNormally, the Left champions the actions of labor unions. But in this case, once again, they are confronted with two cherished institutions battling each other:
The race industry vs. organized labor
Fearing charges of racism, they instinctively flocked to Gates. When their constituent special interest groups are in conflict, they always gravitate toward the race group.
But now they have another problem: a black cop and a Hispanic cop on the scene corroborate the white cops account and back his arresting of Gates.
This story won't die easily.
Well you might have a point
July 25, 2009 - 09:25 ET by dscottWell you might have a point on having a hispanic and black cop back up the actions of a white cop, however the common color between all three is BLUE. The Great Divider has tossed the etherial race card. We have all misunderstood his statement, and he is sorry that we misunderstood, we were supposed to get the us versus them against the police, but being the dolts we are thought he was illuding to race. Interestingly, the police union didn't misunderstand Obama's the message, hence their demand for an apology.
Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid, starving the poor one gallon of ethanol at a time. Fill your tank with E85 and cull a village.
Here's an interesting
July 24, 2009 - 19:47 ET by Mike SargentHere's an interesting read...
http://www.redstate....
@Mike Sargent:
July 24, 2009 - 20:22 ET by j. frank wilson"The police officer, after attempting this whole time to calm the professor, finally is forced by circumstance to arrest the professor."
That doesn't make sense. If a police officer is "forced by circumstances" he (or she, of course) has lost control of the situation.
And that's a bad thing.
Best bet would have been for the officer to just walk away. Like you see a good umpire do.
Or, as I have suggested elsewhere, Prof. Gates could have just shown Sgt. Crowley his birth certificate...
Clueless
July 24, 2009 - 21:04 ET by onewiseguy...is what you are. How exactly do you control someone who is out of control if not by arresting them? Gates got what he deserved for being a pompous and racist dumba$$. He was wrong so please stop trying to defend the indefensible with idiotic comments like:
"Best bet would have been for the officer to just walk away. Like you see a good umpire do."
Btw, in reference to your other idiotic statement:
"Prof. Gates could have just shown Sgt. Crowley his birth certificate"
...you're obviously one of the disingenuous folks who believe that the "certification of live birth" Obama has supposedly provided is actually a genuine birth certificate....it is not so take some time to educate yourself on the subject.
@onewiseguy:
July 25, 2009 - 09:35 ET by j. frank wilsonWhether a "certification of live birth" is the same as a "birth certificate" is a meaningless issue.
I know that a "certification of live birth" will get you a US Passport. I have both.
Mr. Obama's campaign provided a copy of the Certification of Live Birth. No "supposedly."
As a Birthier, you'll probably enjoy this clip of GeeGee explaining how he knows Barack Obama was "born in the slums of Kenya." It's quite something to see!
http://wonkette.com/410063/watergate-criminalbirther-g-gordon-liddy-almost-dies-on-teevee
I can sure see why you Birthiers need to educate yourselves on this subject by listening to convicted felons.
'Walk away' from a reported burglary??
July 24, 2009 - 22:09 ET by TailgunnerYou expect a police officer who has 'lost control of the situation' to just 'walk away' from a burglary complaint?
'Clueless' doesn't begin to describe your unbalanced ravings.
Umpires don't have to worry about getting shot by burglars or raving maniacs.
Cops get shot by unbalanced homeowners on a regular basis, too.
It's a fact. Sometimes they're domestic violence suspects, sometimes they're off their meds, and occasionally they've just got a running grudge against their local government.
Would you say that a cop should tolerate such abuse from a guy who's legally in his car?
You probably would.
You're losing bad, pal. Are you sure you're not really President Obama floating trial balloons to test conservative response?
Nationalized Healthcare is a DEATH SENTENCE.
Good link, but I am eagerly
July 25, 2009 - 08:20 ET by FranksamGood link to Redstate, but I am eagerly awaiting Jackie and Dunlap's take on this. Thanks
"Incendiary"? Funny,
July 24, 2009 - 15:53 ET by Chris Norman"Incendiary"? Funny, I would have called the Rodney King riots incendiary - not a press conference.
The "Mainstream" Media: By liberals. For liberals.
They don't want the police
July 24, 2009 - 15:54 ET by NewsbusterbrownThey don't want the police department making his client out to be some
crazy guy who went off on a police officer and lost his mind for a
moment.
Truth hurts, I guess.
“There are no easy answers' but there are simple answers. We must have the courage to do what we know is morally right.” - Ronald Reagan (1964 Republican Convention)
'... lost his mind for a moment...'?
July 24, 2009 - 21:58 ET by TailgunnerI think he 'loses his mind' for a living.
Nationalized Healthcare is a DEATH SENTENCE.
Impudence
July 24, 2009 - 15:55 ET by nkviking75HARRIS: I don't know why I was under the impression that this news conference, that by the end of it we would be closer to resolving this. I don't know why I thought that, but clearly, it looks like we may be more entrenched at this point with Cambridge police unions. The legal counsel for Cambridge police saying very clearly that they support the actions of the officer in this case and want an apology from the president.
Translation: How dare these blasphemers request an apology from the one. I'm shocked... shocked at their impudence!
Remember who threw out the first Molotov cocktail in this little contretemps.
When you put the clowns in charge, don't be surprised when a circus breaks out.
According to these black
July 24, 2009 - 16:01 ET by Chris NormanAccording to these black activists, are there any black people who are ever in the wrong? Just one?
The "Mainstream" Media: By liberals. For liberals.
correct
July 24, 2009 - 17:13 ET by Kekela WardAnd according to everyone in prison, no one there is guilty of any crime.
Sam: "I hurt somebody's feelings once"
I was racially profiled...
July 24, 2009 - 16:01 ET by taocpaand I am a white guy!
It's ridiculous. Obama stepped in it and this reporter tried to make himself part of the story. If Obama and all these northeast libtards bothered to read the report, it was Gates who played the race card according to Sgt. Crowley. He wasn't arrested because he was black. He was arrested for disorderly conduct.
What a joke!
When will the madness end? Hopefully, January 20, 2013.
Tom
bt-........he had the
July 24, 2009 - 16:06 ET by MidAmericabt-........he had the audacity to also say that he thought they were both wrong...
Yeah you know they know they don't have a leg to stand on here so they are going to try to make it a case of 'both' individuals need to get a better understanding of the other. As if this is just a situation ilustrating the broken race relations in this country.
Many years ago I worked in a factory where one black girl in particular whenever asked to do a job she didn't like would go crying to the union that she was being discriminated against because she was black. Since she was black the company had to just accomodate her and white person would be assigned the job she refused.
In a way it's hard to blame
July 24, 2009 - 16:32 ET by MazziIn a way it's hard to blame that girl for playing the race/victim card. I mean, it takes a LOT of character to not use a freebie like that. Of course, the very act of taking advantage of those freebies is a character-killer....
Just another catch-22 that we can thank the libtards for.
"I would rather be historically accurate than politically correct" ~ My husband's T-Shirt
MA... Wow...my dog came
July 24, 2009 - 18:17 ET by bigtimerMA...
Wow...my dog came home with porcupine quills all over, inside the roof of his mouth too...so I've been gone for awhile, took him to the vet...now I come back and my post has disappeared.
Anyone know here know why?
Doubling down on stupid is not a particularly good idea. ~Andrew Breitbart
Well gee I dunno what
July 24, 2009 - 18:50 ET by MidAmericaWell gee I dunno what could have happened to your post. Was your post covered in quills? If it was it sounds like maybe your dog ate it.
MA... LOL...you've got
July 24, 2009 - 19:06 ET by bigtimerMA...
LOL...you've got me...I can't imagine why it has went 'poof'.
Would like an explanation though...from somebody.
Doubling down on stupid is not a particularly good idea. ~Andrew Breitbart
I sometimes forget
July 24, 2009 - 19:33 ET by general companyTo push the "Post comment" button. Never had my dog come back with Porcupine quills, Armadilos yes, Porcupines no
My Gov. thinks I am dangerous, so be careful
"Television is a freak show" Bernie Goldberg
gc... Ummm..I thought of
July 24, 2009 - 19:37 ET by bigtimergc...
Ummm..I thought of that... since I was really distracted with my dog not long after...but when you see another poster following and quoting part of what you stated in your post, you just have to know the comment was posted.
Want you to know I'm grinning while posting this.
Doubling down on stupid is not a particularly good idea. ~Andrew Breitbart
porcipine meat
July 24, 2009 - 19:15 ET by Wesen"Porcipine meat, too fat to eat too lean to throw away."
Hope you tracked the offender down with a shovel. Losing a post is a sign of the first stage.
OK Wesen...you got me
July 24, 2009 - 19:23 ET by bigtimerOK Wesen...you got me baffled there...I'll bite...first stage of what?
Doubling down on stupid is not a particularly good idea. ~Andrew Breitbart
well,
July 24, 2009 - 19:33 ET by WesenForgetfulness, repeating yourself, soiling the new shirt, inattentive accidents... you know, when a person gets to your age these things are called the first stage. It's senior humor.
http://www.divshare....
Funny, funny
July 24, 2009 - 19:41 ET by bigtimerFunny, funny Wesen.
Nothing is wrong with my memory...yet.
Doubling down on stupid is not a particularly good idea. ~Andrew Breitbart
Ignorance is more apt
July 24, 2009 - 16:07 ET by Mr. MikeObama spoke from ignorance of the situation and it has come back to bite him on the butt.
Now, what's this about Ann Coulter on Red Eye last night saying her sources have told her the question was planted by Axelrod? Hmmmm.
Also, I've seen some speculation on other sites that seem to think someone has told the White House that the professor looks like a total fool on the arrest tape thus proving the cops' position. That's why Obama is really starting to back away.
@Mr. Mike:
July 24, 2009 - 20:24 ET by j. frank wilsonToo bad Ann Falter's "sources" didn't tell her you can't legally take a homeowner's exemption in Florida and then vote in another state...
Tell that to ten thousand Democratic snowbirds, pal.
July 24, 2009 - 21:55 ET by TailgunnerNationalized Healthcare is a DEATH SENTENCE.
That doesn't seem to have
July 24, 2009 - 22:01 ET by NL207That doesn't seem to have stopped lots of damn liberal yankees from NYC from doing just that, now has it.
Voting fraud has become a way of life for the Democratic party, whether it be double counting in Minnesota, farudulent voter registrations in Missouri, dead people in Chicago, illegals in California or non-resident voting in another jurisdiction.
Plus throw in Motor Voter
July 24, 2009 - 22:13 ET by bigtimerPlus throw in Motor Voter along with ACORN and sister groups...and of course we cannot forger the Trial-Lawyers/ACLU types and their constant threats...that some in the repub party back down to.
Doubling down on stupid is not a particularly good idea. ~Andrew Breitbart
Worthless scholar
July 24, 2009 - 16:16 ET by seven3 pieces on Oprah? Get real. Meditating on black genetics? Has anyone else seen his site? he is a "token" prof.
I have 2 words
July 24, 2009 - 16:46 ET by kangarooNO SUEING, it has become the devil of this country, kick the chasers of anything to the curb, nuff said.
And all the cops say, "Well, EXCUSE ME!"
July 24, 2009 - 16:44 ET by lgeubankLeft-wing minority-worshippers really don't like for whites to defend themselves. It reminds me of the French proverb, "The tiger is a wicked animal -- when attacked, she defends herself."
I am beginning to wonder if
July 24, 2009 - 16:48 ET by Dan The Man 2I am beginning to wonder if this whole thing is a setup to cover some incidous plan of Duh One. I know its very tin hat conspiratorial but I wonder if it is cover for something. It seems like when some event happens and the SCM cover it nonstop the people are the worse for it.
Just look at Cap and Trade and the MJ thing was covered to the hilt. Putting on my tin foil hat, no aluminum will not do in this case.
how dare he...
July 24, 2009 - 16:59 ET by sarainitalyHow dare Crowley come out and defend himself against charges of racism and stupidity. He just inflamed the situation by defending himself from the attacks by Gates, Obama and Duvall. He just have just stepped back and let the POTUS insult him, and his department.
How dare he stir things up and allow this incendiary press conference to occur. How dare he use his position to defame someone in a live presser, in front of 28 million viewers...
So why wasn't it "incendiary" when it was Gates' turn at bat?
July 24, 2009 - 17:05 ET by krendlerSure didn't hear Harris making these cautionary comments when Gates' was screaming "racism" (during the original incident and afterwards in interviews), or when Obama was calling the cop "stupid" and implying he had engaged in racial profiling.
Why is that, Tony?
Harris is now saying the police officers coalition is fanning the flames of racism...by defending the officer's conduct.
Where does CNN find these idiots? They're every bit as racist as Gates.
July 24, 2009 - 17:45 ET by jessieHCorruption is rampant in this country. The police were right. Gates is probably a good friend of obama's but I'll bet money he knows "rev. wright" & Bill Ayers too.
Rahm Emanuel is overjoyed
July 24, 2009 - 17:45 ET by snaggletoothieRahm Emanuel is overjoyed that this is diverting attention from thr failures of cap and trade and socialized medicine. At the same time it's helping to lock in the 97% of blacks who voted the O ticket.
"Disorderly Conduct"
July 24, 2009 - 17:47 ET by j. frank wilsonThree links from Goole about "disorderly conduct" - one is general, two are specifically about Massachusetts.
http://www.masscriminaldefense.com/disorderly.htm
http://www.criminal-law-lawyer-source.com/terms/disorderly-conduct.html
http://www.mass.gov/?pageID=dmdaterminal&L=5&L0=Home&L1=Court+Decisions&L2=Court+Decisions+by+Topic&L3=Crimes&L4=Disorderly+Conduct&sid=Dmdaa&b=terminalcontent&f=courts_mulvey&csid=Dmdaa
These sources appear to answer the question "Why did Sgt. Crowley keep asking Prof. Gates to step outside?" My guess would be he wanted Prof. Gates out in front of his home to attempt to show Prof. Gates was in a "public place."
It would be interesting to know how many people in Massachusetts, over the past several years, have been successfully charged with "disorderly conduct" in their own homes. I'm betting not too darn many.
Doubtless a possibility
July 24, 2009 - 18:38 ET by ParagrouperBut be aware of some other reasons for Sgt Crowley would want to bring this situation outside.
1. Backup: because backup makes you safe
2. Witnesses: always better than no witnesses
3. Choice: Gates could have stayed in his house and helped to diffuse the confrontation, but instead he chose to go outside and play
Regardless of his reason, Sgt Crowley went outside, Gates followed him out with his mouth engaged and his brain disengaged and, Viola! you have disorderly conduct.
"Beware the fury of the patient man." - John Dryden
@Paragrouper:
July 24, 2009 - 19:27 ET by j. frank wilsonYes, those are possibilities.
However, saying Prof. Gates "chose to go outside and play" is trying to have it both ways. Did he do what the police officer requested? If so, why was he arrested?
And why did Sgt. Crowley ask him in the first place?
I'm not convinced it is reasonably possible to have a legitimate case of "disorderly conduct" either within one's home or yard. At least in the state of Massachusetts.
Wow! I get an @
July 24, 2009 - 19:47 ET by ParagrouperI'm so honored. I would be even more honored if you put more effort into your response. The facts surrounding this silly episode are well documented. Those present, witnesses and police, agree that Gates acted in a disorderly manner.
You have a habit of cherry picking those portions that best suit your objective to "reshape" the truth to your liking and ignore the rest--it bit disingenuous Frank.
Frankly Frank, I expect more from you.
"Beware the fury of the patient man." - John Dryden
@paragrouper:
July 25, 2009 - 12:51 ET by j. frank wilsonOver the past number of months I noticed on NB it is sometimes difficult to track a thread. Particularly during a heated discussion, comments get mixed up.
The only purpose of the "@" is to link a reply to a previous comment.
If there is a better way to do this, please be so kind as to let me know...
As to Prof. Gates, the fact remains he was in his own home. If he asked Sgt. Crowley for his name and badge number, all Sgt. Crowley had to do was reach into his shirt pocket, remove one of his business cards, hand it to Prof. Gates and be done with it.
Did Prof. Gates get loud? I would say "Yes."
Is that against the law? Not if you're in your home.
Again I will ask, how many people here at NB would be supporting Sgt. Crowley if he were a Federal agent? Say, taking a young man to reunite him with his father. Or asking the occupants to come outside and surrender? Or if he were an IRS agent?
Let alone FBI or ATF. G. Gordon Liddy reportedly told his listeners to aim for their face and not their bullet-proof vest. In a fund-raising letter the NRA called them "jack-booted thugs."
Where was all this support for law enforcement then?
@Frank
July 25, 2009 - 13:09 ET by ParagrouperGates left his home, acted in a disorderly manner and was arrested. It helps to keep the sequence in order.
As to your other questions; thats a pretty sorry attempt to drag the thread off topic and do not merit a response.
"Beware the fury of the patient man." - John Dryden
@Paragrouper:
July 25, 2009 - 16:29 ET by j. frank wilsonProf. Gates stepped onto his front porch because Sgt. Crowley asked him to.
I continue to believe Sgt. Crowley wanted Prof. Gates outside in order to establish that he was being disorderly in public.
Otherwise, why would he have asked him to step outside? Why not just leave it where it was?
@My House
July 25, 2009 - 16:40 ET by Paragrouperwe know the difference between private and public behavior.
Gates chose to go outside. Gates chose to act in a disorderly manner, after he went outside. No matter what Sgt Crowley wanted-Gates chose.
Do you condone the manner that Gates behaved once he was outside, in public?
"Beware the fury of the patient man." - John Dryden
Frankie you are a liar and
July 25, 2009 - 23:05 ET by Dan The Man 2Frankie you are a liar and a Troll "Prof. Gates stepped onto his front porch because Sgt. Crowley asked him to.I continue to believe Sgt. Crowley wanted Prof. Gates outside in order to establish that he was being disorderly in public.Otherwise, why would he have asked him to step outside? Why not just leave it where it was?"
Read teh report as it explains it all. Gates was contually asking for Crowleys bade and name. Crowley had given it to Gates 2 times before and said "If he had any other questions about the matter to step outside..." He further said it was hard to hear and could not keep in touch with the ECC.
Gates was probably drunk.
Troll on Frankie
@Dan Duh Man Deux:
July 26, 2009 - 12:00 ET by j. frank wilson"Gates was probably drunk?"
Before 1 in the afternoon?
You call me a liar and you're just making stuff up?
Wow!
Well, what would you do if you were trapped in an airliner...
July 26, 2009 - 15:41 ET by Tailgunner...from China to America with only a few stops?
In my Jack Daniels days, I would get quietly drunk and pass out for the remainder of the flight.
So it is not completely out of the range of possibilities to posit that Gates may have been suffering from the effects of one too miny martoonies.
Nationalized Healthcare is a DEATH SENTENCE.
I think J. Frank Moonbat
July 26, 2009 - 15:44 ET by Free StinkerI think J. Frank Moonbat has never heard of Timezones either . . .
Well, I'm still convinced that Gates manufactured this incident.
July 26, 2009 - 15:52 ET by TailgunnerIt fits the template. Take an ordinary situation and antagonize the other party into an angry response by constantly and loudly accusing him/her of racism.
To call a non-black person a racist is the equivalent of calling an African-American a 'n****r' and often brings forth the same response.
Now Gates has his incident, which he deliberately provoked and manufactured, for him and others like him to exploit as they wish.
I hope the Cambridge Police Department sues on behalf of this officer Gates or anyone else trying to make money by smearing this cop and his department as racist.
Nationalized Healthcare is a DEATH SENTENCE.
"However, saying Prof.
July 24, 2009 - 19:57 ET by ckc1227"However, saying Prof. Gates "chose to go outside and play" is trying to
have it both ways. Did he do what the police officer requested? If
so, why was he arrested?"
Please show us anywhere in the report where the officer requested Gates come outside and rant and rave like a maniac. If you can find it, I'll eat my computer monitor.
Better question....are you deliberately obtuse, or is it a symptom of your mental illness?
My apologies:
July 24, 2009 - 19:34 ET by j. frank wilsonDouble post.
However, I will take this opportunity to note the President of the United States did not say the Cambridge police were "stupid."
He said they acted "stupidly."
Those are two very different things.
Ok frankie... O isn't
July 24, 2009 - 19:44 ET by bigtimerOk frankie...
O isn't stupid...he just acts stupidly.
Doubling down on stupid is not a particularly good idea. ~Andrew Breitbart
So, if I say the President
July 24, 2009 - 19:50 ET by ckc1227So, if I say the President acts like a n*gg*r, that's not the same as calling him one. Gotcha.
@ckc1227:
July 24, 2009 - 20:28 ET by j. frank wilsonYes.
Of course, either way, you're using the "N" word. But I'm sure you're adult enough to accept responsibility for that.
DeRange'd would be proud of you!
j. frank, Do you ever tire of having the floors of NB mopped...
July 24, 2009 - 21:25 ET by R D Helm...with your ass?
LOL-Damn, talk about a glutton for punishment.
-Dave
'Responsibility' for what?
July 25, 2009 - 18:26 ET by TailgunnerWhy is it wrong to use the N-word, Frank?
Is it OK for anyone to use the N-word, Frank?
If so, who is allowed to use the N-word?
And who is not?
And why?
Nationalized Healthcare is a DEATH SENTENCE.
@Tailgunner:
July 26, 2009 - 12:06 ET by j. frank wilsonIt's called "personal responsibility."
Anyone is "allowed" to use any word they want. Other than "Fire!" in a crowded theatre, of course.
The language you use says a great deal about you. Say and do what you want. Others will judge you accordingly.
It's perfectly ok to yell 'Fire!' in a crowded theater...
July 26, 2009 - 19:35 ET by Tailgunner...as long as there is a fire.
Nice answer, btw. If I use the N-word, then, it means I'm not really a racist...just not a very nice person.
I'll keep that in mind.
Nationalized Healthcare is a DEATH SENTENCE.
You're really clutching at straws here, pal.
July 24, 2009 - 21:50 ET by TailgunnerThe cops get a report that two black men forced their way into Gates' house through the back door.
Police knew that Gates' house had a previous attempted break-in.
The police sergeant, (handpicked by his black superior to teach classes on avoiding racial profiling) follows routine police procedure in identifying the two men inside the house.
According to several police on the scene, and as many as nine other witnesses, Gates immediately, continuously and without provocation began yelling at the cop, accusing him of racism and insulting the cop's mother.
Remember the report said 'two men'. This officer hadn't located the second man yet. Did Gates know he was there? Was this second guy holding a gun on Gates just out of sight of the police officers on the scene?
I used to be a cop. In a genuine hostage situation the resident is instructed by the burglar to 'get rid of the cop'.
To the police sergeant, Gates' behavior could have set off such an alarm.
Therefore, asking Gates to come outside would have been a reasonable way to remove him from the control of the burglar.
Such a scenario would also explain police procedure in asking a respondent to wait outside the house for officers' arrival.
This situation was by no means under control and Gates was steadily escalating it by his verbal attacks, race-baiting, and insults.
This officer was well within his authority to take Gates into custody, even if charges were later dropped, just to secure the scene and complete a potential burglary investigation.
Such incidents occur a thousand times a day in this country.
But it's only because an opportunistic race-baiter accuses without foundation police officers who were protecting HIS property that people like you are trying really, really hard to keep this story going and wring a little more racial enmity out of it, even as it rapidly disintegrates.
Nationalized Healthcare is a DEATH SENTENCE.
@Tailgunner:
July 25, 2009 - 09:21 ET by j. frank wilsonYour first sentence says it all, doesn't it?
"The cops get a report that two black men forced their way into Gates' house through the back door." [emphasis added]
It was the front door, of course. But why worry about details?
Actually, they entered
July 25, 2009 - 15:54 ET by Mike SargentActually, they entered through the rear entrance, because they were unable to force the damaged front door open. They then managed to open the damaged front door by working from both sides of that door.
But why worry about the details, when it's clearly a case of racial profiling?
Let's go a bit further. By digging around in the public police files, there have been at least seven other daytime break-ins in that neighborhood since January of this year. If I'm a burgular, I wait a month after I rob a place for the homeowner to replace all the stuff I stole, and then I go back to rob it again for all the new stuff -- especially if I know the mark is constantly gone for long periods of time.
Gates' house was broken into -- we know, because the door was damaged, and forced Gates to let himself in through the back door.
But why worry about the details?
Now if you're the only cop on the scene, you enter the house through the front door, and are greeted with an elderly African-American male. You introduce yourself, and state your purpose for being there; somebody reported a possible break-in. "Would you mind showing me your ID, sir?" This is important because, if this elderly fellow lives here (probably does, since he's old and doesn't fit the bill of a burgular -- using a cane, fergoshsakes), he might have two burgulars in the house with him that he's not aware of. So once this fellow shows you he's the homeowner, you can safely turn your back on him to look for the actual burgulars.
But why worry about the details?
Except, he doesn't want to show you his ID. He wants to yell at you because you're a white cop asking a black guy for his ID. It doesn't matter that you're trying to keep him safe -- and keep yourself safe until backup arrives -- to the untrained in police methods, it probably does look like a racist cop.
Except...how is the cop profiling anyone, when all he did was respond to a possible break-in at a house he knows was broken into recently? It's not like the cop was camped outside Gates' house waiting for him to return from China!
But why worry about the details?
And let's remember, the neighbor reported that two black men forced their way into Gates' house through the back door. The cops didn't report that, the neighbor did. So how is it racial profiling to receive a report containing demographic information?
But...why worry about the details?
@Mike Sargent:
July 25, 2009 - 16:38 ET by j. frank wilsonProf. Gates and his driver tried to enter the front door and it was stuck. You state it was damaged from a break in. That's the first I've heard that. Would you share you source with us?
The two gentlemen entered through the back door of the home with his key, turned off the alarm, and then went around to the front door and broke in.
That is when the neighbor called the police.
Prof. Gates showed Sgt. Crowley his Harvard ID (occupation) and driver's license (proof this is his home).
Do you have a source that he refused to show his ID?
Prof. Gates asked Sgt. Crowley for his name and badge number. Obviously the easy answer would have been for Sgt. Crowley to hand him his business card. Apparently he didn't.
You repeat this house was broken into before. Is this statement unique to you?
As for racial profiling, I don't think it was. I think this is just a case of a cop being a jerk.
Here's a question for you Frank
July 25, 2009 - 16:52 ET by ParagrouperSince you "think this is just a case of a cop being a jerk."
Do you have a personal problem with the police?
I read the police accounts, witness statements and heard Gates side of the story and this cop acted pretty calmly. Maybe you have some past personal issues with authority figures. Perhaps you can share them with us. It would help to explain your rather irrational arguments to the rest of us.
"Beware the fury of the patient man." - John Dryden
...Gah.
July 25, 2009 - 18:04 ET by Mike SargentThis website kills me sometimes. Sorry for the epic line of posts, I'm gonna try to shorten that somewhat...
...
July 25, 2009 - 18:11 ET by Mike Sargent.
...
July 25, 2009 - 18:11 ET by Mike Sargent.
...one wonders why Gates
July 25, 2009 - 17:50 ET by Mike Sargent...one wonders why Gates would have had to break in to his own front door, had it not been damaged. But very well, I'll tell you where I heard it. A local radio host called into the Imus in the Morning Show (here's the audio), I believe it was the day after this whole thing exploded. That fellow had done some research, and determined that Gates' house had been burgularized within the last month, and that the front door had been damaged by the burgulars. Also, I believe I misstated the number of break-ins at seven in the first quarter; the radio host says there were nine.
Now, from the police report, found here:
I see no point at which the officer acknowledges receiving a driver's license. Furthermore:
Not only did the police officer identify himself, he did so twice. The cop was leaving. HE. WAS. LEAVING. And what did Gates do?
Officer Crowely was leaving the scene. He was walking away. Gates continued to yell at him -- and being warned that he was breaking the law, he continued in his course of action. He was not arrested in his house; he had followed the police officer outside. This isn't a case of a power-tripping cop -- it's a case of a Harvard University professor being a public d-bag to a cop. Reality check: I woulda been arrested in a heartbeat for yelling publicly at a police officer, and my bloodline is over 90% Czechoslovakian. And I would deserve it, as apparently did Gates.
Now if new information comes out that shows the cop was a jerk, I hope they force him into instant retirement. But that would be completely against the decade-long history of this particular cop. He's been a model cop for his entire career, and the one time he has a run-in with a tired, frustrated, friend-of-the-President, he gets run through the wringer.
Whaddaya think, is that just way too much of a coincidence for you?
You're wasting your time.
July 25, 2009 - 19:23 ET by Dan DiegoYou're wasting your time. Using the report of an obvious racist cop (he's white you know) will not convince @frank.
I put some work into that post.
July 25, 2009 - 17:48 ET by TailgunnerAnd all you can do is nitpick on one 'incorrect' detail, which, as it turned out, you were wrong about.
So my statement was true. Wouldn't that influence the responding officers perceptions and handling of the situation, especially when they must have known there was a previous break-in attempt?
You will never accept the fact that Gates acted like a complete @sshole and put the cops on the defensive in a situation that they were informed was potentially dangerous.
So you're going to argue about trifles, distract from the issues at hand, and use the tiniest detail to impeach the entire argument.
Go ahead, I need the laughs.
Gates manufactured this event, pal.
I've had it done to me as a security officer (ok, guard) at Comp USA.
A young black woman tried to leave the store with store property in a bag from another store.
When I detained her, she began yelling and demanded the manager.
Before the manager got to the front of the store, she was on the phone with her lawyer.
That evening I was informed by my supervisors of her intent to sue...and they admitted they would have to settle, regardless of the facts.
You're a lawyer, right? You're going to tell me minorities don't falsify such incidents to intimidate businesses out of money?
Hell, that's Jesse Jackson's bread and butter.
Nationalized Healthcare is a DEATH SENTENCE.
Re CompUSA
July 25, 2009 - 18:28 ET by slickwillie2001Man I hated those procedures at CompUSA. They were incredibly aggressive. You could check out in full sight of the door guy eight feet away and be the only customer in the store, and still get the gears at the door. They must have had huge problems to necessitate doing that to customers. Might have had something to do with their demise. Hope you made it through.
Yeah, CompUSA was pretty harsh.
July 25, 2009 - 18:47 ET by TailgunnerMost of the problems came from their irresponsible and inconsistent return policies.
In some cases, they'd accept the return, or they'd accept it only for the first couple of weeks or not at all and you'd have to ship it off to the manufacturer.
Try and explain that an angry, confused customer.
I don't know if they're out of business, but if they were I wouldn't be surprised.
Nationalized Healthcare is a DEATH SENTENCE.
Mr. Wilson?
July 24, 2009 - 19:12 ET by UpNorthAre you a defense attorney, or just trying to conjure up an excuse for Gates' conduct? You quote the criminal lawyer site in your reach to explain why the officer kept "asking Prof. Gates to step outside". It isn't necessary to establish a valid arrest for creating a disturbance, by having someone step outside. You only have to show to a reasonable person, that the conduct in question disturbed someone. So, you can stand inside your house and scream at someone, or turn your stereo up to 9 on the vlume control, if it disturbs someone, you can be arrested for said conduct. Your third cite doesn't apply to an urban setting, the case referred to was in a rural area, at a home set back from the road, and only police officers and the defendant were present. Gates was seen, and heard by others, screaming and yelling, even though his lawyer at one time claimed he couldn't yell or scream because he was suffering from some type of infection.
@UpNorth:
July 24, 2009 - 19:32 ET by j. frank wilsonWouldn't you think a defense and/or criminal attorney would be a logical expert on this topic?
I suggest based on these links an essential component to Massachusetts "disorderly conduct" law is the public element. To the extent that in the cited case the police officers contended it was public because they were there. And the court ruled that was not the case.
I have a hard time with the concept that yelling and screaming in one's own home is "disorderly conduct" justifying an arrest.
And - what you suggest is true - why were the charges dropped?
If these were Federal agents and not local cops, would all these conservatives rush to their defense? I wonder about that...
The lawyer whose
July 24, 2009 - 19:56 ET by UpNorthambulance-chasing ad you cite cautions his would-be clients that words and gestures can also be disturbing, as does Massachusetts law. Again the 3rd case you cite is totally different in circumstances from Mr. Gates full-blown racist rant. Mr. Gates was seen and heard by others, not just the police, creating a disturbance.
And, to cite the law, if you play your stereo so loud your neighbors are "disturbed" by it, you're creating a disturbance. If you yell and scream racial epithets so loud your neighbors, or persons on the street are "disturbed" by it, you're creating a disturbance. And yes, you can be arrested for it. Don't believe me? If you live in an urban setting, turn your stereo all the way up tonight, at about 1 a.m., open all the windows and wait. I'm sure someone in law enforcement will pay you a visit, and you can refuse to turn the noise down. See how quick you end up in bracelets and in the back seat of a squad car.
And the officer has no control over whether or not the charges were dropped. You ask why they were dropped? Political expediency, with the idiot governor chiming in, the idiot racist continuing his rant and the idiot at 1600 Pennsylvania Ave chiming in, without knowing any of the facts in the case. Reverend Wright would be so proud.
@UpNorth:
July 24, 2009 - 20:32 ET by j. frank wilsonThe incident in question did not take place at 1 am.
And the alleged "disturbance" didn't begin until the police officers arrived.
Playing music isn't against the law just because one or more neighbors don't like it.
We have freedom of speech here in the US of A. Yelling in your own home just isn't against the law.
And, it's clear that in Massachusetts law the "public" component is key in the law. That's why the rural case went to court. You did read that, didn't you?
"Playing music isn't
July 24, 2009 - 20:51 ET by NL207"Playing music isn't against the law just because one or more neighbors don't like it."
Wrong as usual, Frankie boy. When its done too loudly its called 'disturbing the peace' and is a midemeanor in many jurisdictions.
Frank and Beans just
July 24, 2009 - 21:30 ET by contraryFrank and Beans just doesn't know very much...
http://www.forthepeople.com/disturbing_the_peace.htm
"No I have the facts"
--The resident Joe Friday
@NOL207:
July 25, 2009 - 12:44 ET by j. frank wilsonChanging the factual assumptions won't make your case.
You added "too loudly." The previous poster added "at 1 am."
I regret
July 26, 2009 - 10:10 ET by UpNorththis, I really do, but @J. Fred Muggs. I clearly stated that "if you play your stereo so loud your neighbors are "disturbed" by it, you're creating a disturbance". I merely used the 1a.m. example to make it simple, for liberals to understand. Repeating, if you create a disturbance you can and should be arrested for it. Been there, done that, got the t-shirt. And yes, you can create a disturbance at 1a.m., 9a.m. 2p.m. or anytime. If your actions disturb someone, and they call the police, or you do it when the police are there, you can and should be arrested.
@UpNorth:
July 26, 2009 - 12:20 ET by j. frank wilsonWhat you are missing is (1.) The law; and (2.) A standard of reasonableness.
Simply because my actions "disturb" someone doesn't make it against the law. I can have kids playing in my back yard, laughing and yelling and just being kids.
If the grouch in the back doesn't like it, tough luck.
Should I be arrested because my neighbors don't like my taste in music?
Here in San Francisco, last week an African American singer in the opera "Porgy & Bess" was accosted by the SFPD when she was sitting in her car making a telephone call. Is that against the law?
A Black woman in her car apparently "disturbed" a women in the Pacific Heights neighborhood. Should the singer have been arrested for that? According to your reply, your answer would be "Yes."
A wild party at 2 am is a different story. Prof. Gates in his house or on his porch before 1 in the afternoon is a very different case than being in either spot at 1 in the morning.
Finally, I can not agree with you that the appropriate response to someone making a genuine disturbance is to arrest them. A warning ought to be enough.
Was Prof. Gates a jerk? I would say, based on what we know, the answer is "Yes." Is that against the law? Fortunately for most of us, the correct answer is "No."
Could Sgt. Crowley have handled this better? Again, I would say "Yes."
Did Sgt. Crowley "profile" Prof. Gates? Or treat him in a manner differently than he would have if Prof. Gates had been white? There's no evidence that Sgt. Crowley did.
There will be a detailed, professional, independent third-party investigation of this sorry incident. We all might learn something when that report comes out.
Thank you.
July 26, 2009 - 13:17 ET by Tailgunner'Did Sgt. Crowley "profile" Prof. Gates? Or treat him in a manner differently than he would have if Prof. Gates had been white? There's no evidence that Sgt. Crowley did.'
Thank you.
We can now stop discussing alleged federal civil rights violations, racial profiling, institutionalized racism, Bull Connor, the KKK, and George W Bush.
This is now a discussion over the proper exercise of police discretion by a small Massachusetts town police sergeant who was repeatedly challenged and insulted by a yelling, arrogant 'Adam Henry' (figure it out).
Such incidents occur about ten thousand times a day in America.
Now, what's next on Obama's agenda...the disproportional ticketing of purple Cadillacs with custom wheels by parking enforcement officers in Middleburg, Florida?
Will Obama ever find any time in his busy schedule of ferreting out hidden prejudices in America to worry about the apocalyptic schemes of Islamic fanatics in Tehran or the insane extortion schemes continuously being plotted in Pyongyang?
Nationalized Healthcare is a DEATH SENTENCE.
Frankly,
July 26, 2009 - 20:18 ET by UpNorthyou are the one who doesn't know the law. You can't accept that someone can disturb someone else, by their voice, their actions, their music or whatever.
And you've never been on a disturbance call. I have, warnings very seldom work. And you know it when you talk to the object of the call. And the guy who works 3rd shift, in your mind, doesn't deserve the peace that you do? I know, I know, we aren't talking 3rd shift people complaining here, just thought I'd head off that red herring before you used it.
I thought that the officers involved were very reasonable, Gates was the one who wasn't reasonable. He was looking for material for his "documentary" and created something that should have been settled when he realized he was wrong.
You said,
July 25, 2009 - 13:47 ET by UpNorthin a thread earlier, "have a hard time with the concept that yelling and screaming in one's own home is "disorderly conduct" justifying an arrest". You have freedom of speech to say something, you don't have the freedom to be heard. especially if someone doesn't want to hear you.
Yeah I did read it, and, in that case, you were right. I agree with the decision in that case, and I would never have arrested someone in those circumstances. I gave you a "for instnace" type of scenario, which you choose to ignore. Typical liberal, if something doesn't fit your preconcieved notions, ignore, ignore, ignore.
And, yes, playing music loud enought to "disturb" someone outside the home, is against the law, rightfully so. So is yelling loud enough to do the same. But, you won't see that, or accept it, so I'm done wasting time and air on you.
Gates reminds
July 24, 2009 - 17:47 ET by jessieHGates reminds me of something I heard from a movie.... I'm the Jugernaught, b*tch!!!!!
Wanna fight back
July 24, 2009 - 17:51 ET by JohnMagainst the horrible slander that this guy is dishing out?
Go to: http://www.cambridgema.gov/CPD/Contact/ , find the name of an officer doing either Public Relations, professional standards, or handling the Harvard neighborhood, and write them an email in support of the quality of the service performed by Officer Crowley in the face of Gates' vile verbal assault.
Let them know there's no need for low morale; they're doing a tough job, and doing it to a high standard. They can be proud of that.
John M - thank you for the link
July 26, 2009 - 16:08 ET by BO STINKSJust sent an e-mail to Sgt. Ayala in the Cambridge Professional Standards dept. In it, I wrote of my admiration for Off. Crowley and asked them not to cave in to the race baiters (used those words) and con men who would have Crowley punished.
"The preservation of the sacred faith of liberty & the destiny of the republican model of gov't. are justly considered deeply...finally, staked on the experiment entrusted to the American people."G. Washington's 1st inaugural address
A teachable moment
July 24, 2009 - 18:03 ET by ekslibNot all bad guys breaking into homes are burglars.
Some are RAPISTS OR MURDERERS OR KIDNAPPERS.
Cops called me out to the front porch after I reported an attempted break-in at MY own house 10 years ago.
I always wondered why they did that.
NOW I know it is standard procedure.
It certainly has been a teachable moment for me.
Teaching Moment?
July 24, 2009 - 18:21 ET by slickwillie2001You know folks, this is purely a domestic issue that the Bamster can get himself out of. It illustrates the danger however of putting someone like him in charge of foreign policy. If he was in Georgia, or Israel, or Pakistan, at a press conference and carelessly shot from the hip like he did on this incident, the result could be tragic.
We are seeing why his handlers keep him on teleprompter at all times, and they are on pins and needles when he strays. Maybe a relatively harmless incident like this one may be a 'teaching moment' for the Bamster, on how to think before you step on the gas. Let's hope he grows quickly in this job before a whole lot of people get killed.
That was my thought
July 24, 2009 - 18:33 ET by motherbeltThat was my thought exactly, slick....this is the result of his speaking OT...off teleprompter.
Who'da thunk Joe Biden would be right? this is not a job that lends itself to OJT.
Signs of a micro manager
July 24, 2009 - 19:55 ET by doug1950Obama thinks he has to weigh in on everything that comes across his radar screen. He needs to realize there are and are going to many thousands of things that are "below his pay grade" and do not require him to straighten out. Most of us here have worked with those kinds of people. Every subject or topic requires their input whether it concerns them or not. He is like the rookie batter; swings at every pitch, misses most of them by a yard, usually strikes out and has a piss poor batting average....same thing here. What the hell did the country do before he came to save all of us?
Let's Play the Feud
July 24, 2009 - 19:57 ET by acumenThis is a great follow-up piece to Noel's earlier post - CBS Adds Fuel to the Racism Fire Stoked By Gates Arrest
The following comment by Noel could have very easily apply to this CNN report; "As you watch the following video, ask yourself whether the content of this segment will improve race relations in America, or worsen them (video embedded below the fold with full transcript):"
Amazingly, what appeared to take priority over the potential inciting of more racial tension to Harris was the style in which the interview with Lemon proceeded; "And, Don, good back-and-forth. I love that. Thank you."
And thank you for playing the feud.
acumen... Bingo! Doublin
July 24, 2009 - 20:01 ET by bigtimeracumen...
Bingo!
Doubling down on stupid is not a particularly good idea. ~Andrew Breitbart
Obama supports the police,
July 24, 2009 - 20:00 ET by ckc1227Obama supports the police, he just doesn't support their mission.
ckc... Spot-ON! Doubling
July 24, 2009 - 20:03 ET by bigtimerckc...
Spot-ON!
Doubling down on stupid is not a particularly good idea. ~Andrew Breitbart
A Teaching Moment, Indeed
July 24, 2009 - 20:10 ET by rammingspeedThis is part of Obama's lack of experience, and the lack of accountability that liberals have had beginning - lo, so many decades ago. Being so sheltered has made him impolitic, allowing him to believe he can say anything he wants. He was set up by his own unenlightened background.
'Joe the Plumber', 'Joe the Disabled Firefighter', and...
July 24, 2009 - 22:11 ET by Tailgunner'Joe, the Americorps IG', make way for 'Joe, the Police Officer'.
If they's one thing us reg'lar folks is larnin', it's not to get inna way of them lib-ral Demo-crats. They'll plumb run right ovah ya.
There's nothing liberals won't do in a situation like this...except take responsibility and apologize sincerely.
Note how they have to trash an entire police officers' union to protect their lying racist liberal heee-ro.
Reminds me of how these same 'support the troops' hacks, the same ones who threw out hundreds of military absentee votes in the 2000 Florida recount, smeared hundreds of honorable, decorated Vietnam combat veterans as politically motivated liars instead of admitting that John Kerry was a treasonous, lying fraud.
Nationalized Healthcare is a DEATH SENTENCE.
Let's recap
July 24, 2009 - 21:42 ET by oldmanateeRegan was a cowboy whose mouth was going to get this country in trouble...
W was a complete moron who could be counted on to say the dunbest words ever strung together to form a sentence...
Sarah Palin was such a backwoods hick that she would make us all dumber just thru transference...
but thank the Good Lord above 51% of this once great country elected the great orator Obama! College degrees out the ying-yang, editor of the law skool newspaper, and able to bring sexy back single handedly and he sets race relations back 40 years in 7 months!
All I can see is Joe Biden smacking his forehead, saying "I don't belive I'da said that, brother!"
I thought the best
July 24, 2009 - 22:16 ET by mothergooseI thought the best comments were on Fox News tonight when they pointed out that the president...without knowing the facts...accepted that the white policeman was at fault and the black guy was being mistreated. Talk about stereotypes!! He is supposed to be the president of all of us.........and to support law enforcement, I would think....unless he has evidence to the contrary. So much for the "post-racial" era!!
call a spade a spade
July 25, 2009 - 04:50 ET by CatherwoodOk, I'll be the one to come out and call all this controversy what it really is: Black Derangement Syndrome. The tenets of BDS are simply surmized: all policemen are evil and hold prejudices against blacks; all white men are evil and deserve denigration; black men, especially those in authority (Wright, Obama, Jackson, Prof Gates) are never wrong and are above the law; white men are directly responsible for the slavery of the 1800's and owe all black money and deference; all white men are incapable of telling the truth and all black men speak only the gospel. You can see the effects of GBS all the time: Jessie Jackson and his 'disenfranchised' lies after the 2000 election; Al Sharpton everytime he opens his mouth; J. Wright on any given Sunday; and, the President of the USA last week. BDS also manifests itself in more subtle ways like the subsyndrome 'driving while black'; the Democratic National Convention; William Jefferson's freezer persecution, etc. Those white guys are out to get us and there's one behind every tree.
How about
July 25, 2009 - 06:30 ET by cwnelson79The police stop arresting blacks. Because obviously it is racist to arrest blacks. Looking at a black person the wrong way is racist. If at all times you are not kissing their butt, then it is racist. If you shoot a black who is raping your wife ,then you are a racist. If you say black instead of african american, then you are a racist. If you do not accept black leaders as legit, then you are a racist. If you question Obama, then you are a racist.
Infact, they should come out with a "You might be a racist if", and just list everything you can do to upset blacks. That way, white people would know what to avoid that upsets blacks. Infact Obama could pass something into law, an official rule book, that congress will not read anyway.
If
July 25, 2009 - 06:45 ET by CatherwoodYou might be a racist if you didn't vote for BHO.
@Catherwood:
July 25, 2009 - 09:24 ET by j. frank wilsonAccording to the Rev. Jessie Peterson, interviewed on Sheer "Hot Air" InSannity's radio show, if you're white and voted for Mr. Obama you are a racist.
from up North
July 25, 2009 - 10:30 ET by CatherwoodMy nephew who now lives in NY and is an actor came home for the end of turkey season last year. We took him with us on the early morning hunt. That day over a fried turkey lunch and a few cold Buds, the conversation turned to politics. My now liberal-minded nephew who was taught better as he grew up, informed us that our votes against BHO were racists because we only saw color and not the quality of the man. Cousin Ed told the kid that that was not true. He said he would not vote for BHO because he was for abortion on demand, big government, and higher taxes. The nephew disagreed and said he was going to vote for BHO no matter what. As the sun set that afternoon and we all headed back home, the liberal-minded nephew was not offered a ride. He did manage to ride home in the back of one of the trucks with a deer carcass and four dead turkeys. I think he got the message. Now he is probably realizing the truth of socialism and liberalism. Last I heard he was complaining about higher taxes.
Cather.... I cracked up
July 25, 2009 - 17:41 ET by bigtimerCather....
I cracked up laughing with your post, couldn't help it.
One of those post I wished I would have had a spew alert for.
Nothing like family to get a point across...if it ever sinks in...but ya gotta do what ya gotta do....and you all did.
Doubling down on stupid is not a particularly good idea. ~Andrew Breitbart
Get it right, clown.
July 25, 2009 - 17:32 ET by TailgunnerIf you're white and DEMOCRAT and you voted for Obama, you are a racist.
(Well, that's what Peterson should have said.)
Nationalized Healthcare is a DEATH SENTENCE.
July 25, 2009 - 07:59 ET by jessieHIs this the type of garbage they teach at Harvard? " if the cops confront you, pull the race card & sue them". Sounds simple enough. How do you get a race card? Do they give them out at birth, or come in a box of " cracker" jacks?
that's right
July 25, 2009 - 10:33 ET by CatherwoodYou can be assured that, yed, that is what they teach at Harvard and at many other universities.
Maybe
July 25, 2009 - 10:48 ET by StarAZMaybe Professor Gates could have Diversity Trainer Crowley over to his class and get a good teachable discussion going.
I would prefer
July 25, 2009 - 10:50 ET by StarAZThis would be better than yet another chance for Himself to preen and dance around at the mics calibrating stuff.
Police Procedures
July 25, 2009 - 18:09 ET by slickwillie2001Police officers starting to make themselves heard:
Because He's a Jerk in America: http://www.powerlineblog.com
"It's done so that the officer can be more certain that the person being interviewed is not being coerced to say that everything is alright. Last year in Hewitt, Texas, we went to a hostage situation. Lady would not come out of the house but kept telling us all was OK. After a couple of hours, we said if she came to the door to tell us all was OK, we would pack up and leave. She came to the door, we pulled her out, and found the hostage taker hiding in a closet with a hunting knife. Another renter had called this in, by the way."
I believe there's a million cops in the USA that would describe the same procedures and experiences. Everything they do has a reason. If you look at Crowley alone, how many times do you think he has responded to burglary calls in his years of experience?