In today's article titled "White House appears ready to drop 'public option,'" the Associated Press reports the Obama administration is signaling it's prepared to drop the option of government-run insurance as a component of ObamaCare. The piece states in part:
Obama had sought the government to run a health insurance organization to help cover the nation's almost 50 million uninsured, but he never made it a deal breaker in a broad set of ideas that has Republicans unified in opposition.
Not a deal breaker? It certainly seemed to be one as recently as last month. On July 20, The Washington Post's Web site included Ezra Klein's report, "Obama Says Health-Care Reform 'Must' Include Public Option." Cited is Obama's radio address of that week, in which the president declared:
(A)ny plan I sign must include an insurance exchange: a one-stop shopping marketplace where you can compare the benefits, cost and track records of a variety of plans - including a public option to increase competition and keep insurance companies honest - and choose what's best for your family.
Any plan must include a public option. The language is unambiguous. Except in ObamaWorld apparently. Now we're told it was never really a deal breaker.
Conservatives have been frustrated by mainstream media efforts to at times rewrite history to Barack Obama's benefit. Here they go again.




















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Sniff, sniff
August 16, 2009 - 14:40 ET by BKeyserAnybody else smell that? There's something amiss with this AP article; I think I'll forward it to flag@whitehouse.gov for a looksy.
→ Keyser
August 16, 2009 - 15:00 ET by Cool ArrowSince it was Sebaceous, herself that spilled the beans on this one, wouldn't you be reporting her to herself?
LYDSEXICS UNTIE!
fishy
August 16, 2009 - 15:06 ET by Mike BatesWell, as they say in ObamaWorld, a snitch in time. . .
Oceania Has Always Been At War With EastAsia!
August 16, 2009 - 15:08 ET by farstar99Anyone who says different is a doubleplusungood prole!
I'll drink some Victory Gin
August 16, 2009 - 15:18 ET by Carl KolchakI'll drink some Victory Gin for that post!
Seems I heard Gabby Gibbs
August 16, 2009 - 14:45 ET by bigtimerSeems I heard Gabby Gibbs weaving and bobbing this option today on some show somewhere....from the little I caught he seemed to say O wasn't going to take it off the table...
We shall see...and of course the leftist talking heads will take whatever nod they get from Rahm team with the newest talking points if they do drop this....which they will.
Now if tort reform is added in, this will be interesting all over the place...hehee
Obama's a Community Agitator, a walking, talking destroyer. ~ Rush Limbaugh
weaving and bobbing, BT
August 16, 2009 - 15:09 ET by Mike BatesNo doubt the marching orders will be issued as soon as polling results are analyzed.
Well, he's not taking it
August 16, 2009 - 15:53 ET by motherbeltWell, he's not taking it off the table, as far as I can see; only saying that it's not a "must."
Crossposted from the OT where I commented on this:
Didn't Candidate Obama say change had to start from the ground up?
This isn't about me, it's about you! Didn't he say that?
As "we" (formerly known as "you") rise up against Government health
care, will President Obama end up hoist on his own petard of
"ground-up" activists?
[end crosspost]
How's that "You are the ones!!" working for ya, Mr. President?
Of course, there are a lot of ways to get to a public option; the most obvious being overburdening the private companies with regulations and requirements about accepting high-risk patients at no extra cost, burying them in discrimination lawsuits, etc.
Then The First One will say, well, I didn't really want to do this [just like with GM], but we have no alternative.
I like it MB
August 16, 2009 - 17:13 ET by general companyAs "we" (formerly known as "you") rise up against Government healthcare, will President Obama end up hoist on his own petard of "ground-up" activists?
I love the sentiment, might sleep well tonight, thanks
My Gov. thinks I am dangerous, so be careful
"Television is a freak show" Bernie Goldberg
Liar
August 16, 2009 - 14:55 ET by justbob223Obama is a liar who is not to be trusted under any circumstances. His supposed retreat from the public option is only a temporary tactical manuever. Any "health bill" that comes from the Democrats now will still advance their socialist agenda, only not by such a huge leap as they had wanted.
jb223.. Yep...they will
August 16, 2009 - 14:59 ET by bigtimerjb223..
Yep...they will get everything they want over the years incrementally if any bill passes...one way or the other, by hook or by crook...which is so fitting.
Obama's a Community Agitator, a walking, talking destroyer. ~ Rush Limbaugh
Yes they will, just like
August 16, 2009 - 15:56 ET by motherbeltYes they will, just like they'ver been implementing the non-ratified Kyoto treaty little by little, by means of EPA regulations.
Liberals are the masters of "incrementalism."
Look at what they've done with smoking, and "gay rights."
This is Bait and Switch
August 16, 2009 - 15:00 ET by Delsapublic option for Co-ops?
Same socialist system.
Maybe worse?
Force the American people into Co-ops.
Difference without distinction!
The camel will have it's nose under the tent.
Just like the Senate dropping a "death panel" requirement from the healthcare bill, that did not exist in the health care bill to begin with???
Right, I get it.
Don't fall for the bait and switch.
Whether this is a good,
August 16, 2009 - 15:59 ET by MidAmericaWhether this is a good, neutral or bad thing depends on how they set it up. If it is truly a legitimate co-op that has to survive on it's own business savy and by the same rules as any other insurer then it will be just another insurance company. But if it is given legal advantages and sources of public money then it's just the Public Option with a new name.
MidAmerica
August 16, 2009 - 16:25 ET by FeynmanFanDo the names Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac ring a bell?
FF... Hey we can't forget
August 16, 2009 - 16:33 ET by bigtimerFF...
Hey we can't forget Ginnie Mae either.
Obama's a Community Agitator, a walking, talking destroyer. ~ Rush Limbaugh
Well yeah... those names
August 16, 2009 - 16:51 ET by MidAmericaWell yeah... those names are familiar but what do they have to do with co-ops? Those two institutions are not independent of political control.
Around here in my parts we have farmer co-ops to help them get a break on costs. We also have co-op phone systems that serve the more rural areas where a for profit company could not opperate profitably. Co-ops are owned by the members with a price structure set to clear expenses and future needs. But if a for profit company can come in and beat the co-op then that is what happens. It's like the competition between the small chains and Wal-Mart. Some places only the little guys can operate and sometimes the big guys can do it better and cheaper. So if the insurance co-ops can find a niche that is underserved and can do it on a level playing field then it's good for all. The key thing is that the co-ops must be legitemate and do not get favored business advantages. (or come under the control of Barney Frank)
Obama= Keen Business Man
August 16, 2009 - 15:19 ET by SterlingHave any of you ever heard about playing hardball when you are negotiating? I am quite the successful little entrepreneur; and whenever I want something I go all out with my demands. I list things that I know my business associates would never stand for. As we negotiate, I take away the things I never really wanted; I keep the things I want, and the associate walks away with the feeling that he got something out of it. This is precisely what Obama did, the man is pragmatic.
You'd be recognized and
August 16, 2009 - 15:26 ET by NL207You'd be recognized and asked to leave from my shop. Your competotors would enjoy the business.
Obama trades on the monopoly power of the state. No one in business would give that petty tyrant the time of day were it not for the license of the state to employ violence.
→ NL207
August 16, 2009 - 15:38 ET by Cool ArrowSomehow I doubt you'd be doing business with the Sterling Plug and Speculum Distributor.
LYDSEXICS UNTIE!
A Parable
August 16, 2009 - 15:38 ET by SterlingThat is right, you have other options; in the marketplace; but when you are dealing with someone who is a specialist in a particular area it is still cheaper for you to deal with me.
Let us take this example, a criminal case. A prisoner was drinking and driving. The prosecutor says he is going to make an example of this man and try to give him five years behind bars. The prisoner’s lawyer scoffs at the idea; it was his first offense, how about community service. The prosecutor says I will see you in court. The lawyer pleads to the prosecutor and asks, what can we do? The prosecutor says last offer is suspended license, community service, and rehab. The lawyer agrees. The prosecutor was simply playing hardball to get what he really wanted.
sterling just nailed it
August 16, 2009 - 15:45 ET by candanceBullying and threats of disproportionate punishment in order to force your way on a powerless citizen. Thank you for admitting who Obama really is.
scorecard
August 16, 2009 - 15:49 ET by Free StinkerCandance: 1
sterling: 0
Bully Pulpit what is wrong with that
August 16, 2009 - 15:50 ET by SterlingOh please, it is called the bully pulpit. All Presidents use it. Bush used it to go into Iraq, Clinton used it to raise taxes, Bush 41 used it in Persian Gulf, Regan used it multiple times with taxes, and privatization. Oh, how about those air traffic controllers who were threatened by Regan that if they do not return to work you will lose your job. Was Regan being a bully or was he just using the tools that he had to get the job done?
Nice try, Sterling....
August 16, 2009 - 16:00 ET by motherbeltOh, how about those air traffic controllers who were threatened by
Regan that if they do not return to work you will lose your job. Was
Regan being a bully or was he just using the tools that he had to get
the job done?
Nice try. It was in their contract that they would not strike.
When they broke the contract by going on strike, and then refused to return to work when warned, Reagan fired them, as he was right to do.
scorecard
August 16, 2009 - 16:01 ET by Free Stinkermotherbelt: 1
sterling: 0
that's your defense?
August 16, 2009 - 16:01 ET by candanceI fail to see how any of those presidents used dishonest "negotiating" to lie about making concessions in order to get what they want. THAT was your point about Obama. Do try to stay on topic.
But I'll bite on the Reagan point at the end. Had those people gone on strike, the entire airline industry would have stopped cold and thousands, perhaps millions, would have lost their income. A far cry from ignoring public wishes to reform something most of us don't want reformed.
First of all, please
August 16, 2009 - 16:29 ET by SterlingFirst of all, please enlighten me as to what is dishonest about Obama’s negotiating his health care plan with congress. You may not agree with the principals of the plan but he has hardly been dishonest. In fact he has been too transparent in allowing all his detractors to sound off on the policy.
Second, you missed the point obviously about Regan. It was not if he was wrong or right but he pushed private citizens around for the greater good.
→ Right Sterling
August 16, 2009 - 16:35 ET by Cool ArrowSo this kind of negotiating is a good thing?
Except this go-round it's grandma.
LYDSEXICS UNTIE!
No, the kind of negotiating
August 16, 2009 - 17:48 ET by motherbeltNo, the kind of negotiating Sterling is talking about is Obama saying the public option is a "Must-have" and then do an Emily Litella "Nevermind" number.
He is trying to save face for The First One, claiming that Obama was just overinflating his wishes from the beginning. Sort of like a "modified sour grapes" thing.
Better that than to admit that his hero was backing down in the face of a standoff he knew he couldn't win.
"We won." -The American people health care.
Obama's
August 16, 2009 - 17:13 ET by ThisnThatObama's dishonesty:
You'll get to keep your current insurance, if you like it. Obama himself admits that's not true.
I'm not for a single-payer system. Obama's own words show this is a lie.
The health care reform is affordable. The CBO estimates a $1T cost -- just for a piece of it.
___________________________________
"Tax the rich" is a basically unstable way of governing - The NYT
wow, sterling. just wow.
August 16, 2009 - 17:33 ET by candanceYou said in your very first post on this thread that the key to hardball negotiating is throwing out ridiculous demands you know you'll never get just so you can make Kabuki Theater out of making concessions. Pretending to retreat so your final offer looks more reasonable.
That is a dishonest game. And THAT is what you purported as Obama's genuis plan.
And Reagan pushed no one around. He told them to live up to their job description or find a new job. Hardly comparable to Obama's current mess.
Obama considers dishonesty
August 16, 2009 - 17:42 ET by QueenMumObama considers dishonesty a valid political weapon. As far as he's concerned, dishonesty (aka lying) is not a moral failing as long as you can get away with it.
"The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out
of other people's money."
—Margaret Thatcher
QM... Oh that he
August 16, 2009 - 17:56 ET by bigtimerQM...
Oh that he does...he thrives on it, aided and abetted by the msm for the most part...we thought the Clintoon Duo was bad, heck, they don't hold a candle to this empty-suit and his team.
Good news is...he's failing, quickly.
Obama's a Community Agitator, a walking, talking destroyer. ~ Rush Limbaugh
*weak* Time to move on Ster
August 16, 2009 - 15:54 ET by metaphorsbwithu*weak* Time to move on Ster ...
You're flailing and it's hard to watch.
So just stop embarrassing yourself.
If Obama went bike-riding with the kids and rode into a tree, you'd say he meant to do it ... that he was using it as a teachable moment.
metaphorsbwithu
He's losing the argument.
August 16, 2009 - 16:15 ET by bretzysdudeHe's losing the argument. I guess he'll say he'll have to leave.
"TA-TA!"
Cut him some slack...the
August 16, 2009 - 16:17 ET by Kat Outta the BagCut him some slack...the guy's got to get off the computer at some point to press his khakis and polo shirts.
Funny how he left right
August 16, 2009 - 16:21 ET by Free StinkerFunny how he left right around the time I did the scorecard thing. I know it's too much to hope for, but maybe that drives Sterling away?
(Nah. We're probably not that lucky.)
Sterling makes a reasonable
August 16, 2009 - 16:39 ET by QueenMumSterling makes a reasonable argument. It's a classic political move. However, in the case of Obama, I don't think the argument flies. For one thing, why did Obama spend so much time (on the taxpayers dime, I might add) carpetbombing the U.S. with his pseudo-townhalls and photo ops trying to convince people that everything his critics were claiming "just isn't true"?
The Dems must be very disappointed in their golden boy. He just couldn't close the deal. An ongoing problem for the Dear Leader and the Dems.
"The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out
of other people's money."
—Margaret Thatcher
I just fired a bunch of
August 16, 2009 - 16:55 ET by NL207I just fired a bunch of clowns who said that .... and replaced them with local talent at half the cost.
Unless you've patent or copyright protection [government violence], you have competitors who can offer everything you can offer.
Prosecutors you say? Another expression of government violence.
Another less than sterling effort ...
August 16, 2009 - 15:29 ET by metaphorsbwithuRight ... that's why he pressed so hard to get the Omnibus Spending Bill, The Porkulus Bill, Cap-and-Tax, and then HR3200 passed immediately without anyone reading them, with virtually no Republican input or debate, because we were supposedly in crisis mode and these bills had to be passed NOW!
The Democrats control both houses of Congress AND the executive branch, remember? They won and the Republicans lost and he told the losers to SHUT UP and get out of the way!
Some negotiation!
Thank God We the People stood up to him and the Democrat Congress!
Nice try! (not really)
metaphorsbwithu
Exactly
August 16, 2009 - 16:51 ET by BlondeThe dems have the numbers, but not the political courage to force this through.
Just like the traitor Arlen Specter, these politicians are going to go down, and they know it.
Sterling couldn't argue his way out of a wet paper bag, he's as pathetic as any troll I've ever seen. His real name is probably Sebastion or Oliver or somesuch.
I've said it many times, but we really need a better class of troll, here. ©
I hope he fails, too.
In a manner of speaking, the
August 16, 2009 - 17:20 ET by NL207In a manner of speaking, the Dems do not have the numbers. There are many seats occuppied by Democrats whose constituencies are predominantly conservative. Were those seats held by representatives who reflect the views of a majority of their constituents, the Democrats would not be in power at all. i think the Dems owe their majority entirely to a combination of vote fraud and a craven media that refuses to present the issues in a fair and balanced manner.
Exactly right, NL207. I tell
August 16, 2009 - 17:42 ET by metaphorsbwithuExactly right, NL207. I tell my liberal friends this all the time. Conservatives booted out their Republican reps in 2006 because they acted like liberal Democrats (and the media had nightly stories of Republican "cult of corruption" to boot).
However, the "blue dogs" will get their hind legs and front paws twisted, and they will be promised all kinds of goodies to lure them in, which is why we have to stay constantly vigilant.
It's a shame that we know more about the bills they are voting on than they do but that's the way it'll have to be from now on.
metaphorsbwithu
Agree with both of you
August 16, 2009 - 17:49 ET by bigtimerAgree with both of you above...they will be promised the sky, most will go with it, you watch and wait...they usually do.
...the other hope I have is the far left will be so upset of what is stripped out, they will vote against the bill itself.
Who knows how many 'R's will be voting with Pelosi though...Gang of 8 comes to mind like the Cap and Trade BS that made it through because of them...otherwise that would have been dead in it's tracks as well.
Obama's a Community Agitator, a walking, talking destroyer. ~ Rush Limbaugh
You're right: None other
August 16, 2009 - 18:01 ET by motherbeltYou're right: None other than Les Holt was just on the news saying that Obama's backtracking on the public option is not so much to woo Republicans but to get recalcitrant Democrats back on board.
It will be interesting to see if this is enough for them, or if they will want goodies for themselves and their states.
BTW..The First One was also just seen in a video where he said the public option is just one "sliver"....pffft...it's just a bag-a-shells (to quote Ralph Cramden)a SLIVER....get that? Insignificant!!
He also said, once again that it's going to be deficit-neutral...and lots of savings from Medicare, and he still plans on getting rid of Medicare supplements!!
His method of saving money is to simply refuse to pay it to doctors!
And of course, if doctors then refuse to accept Medicare patients, they will simply pass a law requiring them to take them! (That's what I meant elsewhere by burying them in discrimination lawsuits.
The more I think about this, the madder I get!
Sorry about the rant...I have to stop now...my duct tape is coming loose!
that would make you a really stupid business man
August 16, 2009 - 15:41 ET by candanceObama's little "hardball negotiating" trick is not working out very well, considering his customers (aka DKos) are furious by this retreat, and his "associates" are not naive enough to believe he really intends on giving up those demands.
Conservies were not all born yesterday. We know that he still has every intention of government healthcare. This is a tactical retreat, not the end of the war.
I am quite the successful
August 16, 2009 - 15:47 ET by Free StinkerI am quite the successful little entrepreneur;
Internet Translation: "I sell my old comic books on e-bay"
"Gov. Palin has been subjected to one of the most massive and dishonest pile-on smear attacks in the history of liberal media." -- Lowell Ponte
"successful little entrepreneur"
August 16, 2009 - 17:29 ET by SickofLibsLike anyone here buys that for a split second. But hey, this is the internet; be whoever you want.
Now I must sign off for the evening and instruct Benson to gas up my 65-foot Cigarette boat for a pre-dinner sunset run around Bimini.
SOL
August 16, 2009 - 17:42 ET by BlondeBe sure to stop by the Big Game Club for a cocktail....I'll be on the 80' Merritt. My treat.
I hope he fails, too.
That is a lovely cruise
August 16, 2009 - 17:44 ET by general companyEspecially this time of year
My Gov. thinks I am dangerous, so be careful
"Television is a freak show" Bernie Goldberg
Just words ...
August 16, 2009 - 15:21 ET by metaphorsbwithuIt should be clear now to anyone with a shred of intellectual honesty that you simply cannot take anything Pres. Obama says at face value.
metaphorsbwithu
I actually do hate to say
August 16, 2009 - 16:07 ET by Kat Outta the BagI actually do hate to say it, because I really tried early on to give Obama a chance, but...I don't trust him or his henchmen as far as I can throw them.
→ Kat
August 16, 2009 - 16:11 ET by Cool ArrowDon't focus on what he says, pay attention to what he said before winning the Presidency.
Once you start doing that, it all falls into place.
LYDSEXICS UNTIE!
The whole "spread the wealth
August 16, 2009 - 16:14 ET by Kat Outta the BagThe whole "spread the wealth around" thing admittedly was my first real clue into his true motives, but even then I tried. Call me a blind optimist, but I tried dammit! :::sniff::: ;-)
→ And this one
August 16, 2009 - 16:19 ET by Cool Arrow"I'm a proponent of a single payer system"
LYDSEXICS UNTIE!
Exactly, Cool One. I think
August 16, 2009 - 16:42 ET by QueenMumExactly, Cool One. I think he and the Dems put too much stock in his charisma and counted on the masses having short memories.
"The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out
of other people's money."
—Margaret Thatcher
KatO
August 16, 2009 - 17:14 ET by metaphorsbwithuWhich is what we should have done ... until his actions betrayed who we thought (or hoped) he might be.
The problem, Kat, was that Obama ran as a centrist, saying nothing very well, and you had to understand political-speak to read between the lines - for example, when he called for "sacrifice" and "investments" and said that much would be "required" of us, and that we had to "change" our ways of living, etc.
Since the media did not dig an inch into his actual background, the public knew virtually nothing but the images and promises unless they listened to alternative media and actually dug into his background themselves.
This will be quite an eye-opening experience for so many people.
metaphorsbwithu
Exactly. It was around that
August 16, 2009 - 17:18 ET by Kat Outta the BagExactly. It was around that time that I finally stopped watching network news and now only watch Fox. Then I found this site, which has really been the big eye-opener. It took Obama's lying blue lips to shake me out of my political snoozing.
No "Public Option" IS A Dealbreaker.
August 16, 2009 - 15:22 ET by TexndocSo says Kos and Olbermann, the real power. Kos promised no public option - no health care bill on Olbermann's show. Remember Kos, you PROMISED. Don't go wobbly on me, guy.
I think Kos is going to Punk out.
August 16, 2009 - 15:33 ET by Free StinkerI think Kos is going to Punk out.
Let's keep saying that to remind Kos that he has to oppose the President.
"Gov. Palin has been subjected to one of the most massive and dishonest pile-on smear attacks in the history of liberal media." -- Lowell Ponte
Stop that!
August 16, 2009 - 15:27 ET by evilcontractorYou're not allowed to question the "one". And just because he said something, doesn't mean he really said it. IF he ever really said it to begin with. What is wrong with you?
www.btreasures.com
Progressives Demand Public
August 16, 2009 - 15:29 ET by slickwillie2001The 'progressive' caucus (ie socialist) is the opposite of the blue dogs, and they have said they will not vote for a bill without a public option. Maybe this will be like Fatah and Hamas, maybe we can sit back and enjoy while the blue dogs and the progressives destroy each other.
Re Co-ops, a Co-op that has anything to do with the government is not a Co-op, it's a trojan horse. The democratics may try and co-opt the term 'co-op' for their propaganda. Beware.
Re Co-ops, a Co-op that has
August 16, 2009 - 15:36 ET by bigtimerRe Co-ops, a Co-op that has anything to do with the government is not a
Co-op, it's a trojan horse. The democratics may try and co-opt the term
'co-op' for their propaganda. Beware.
sw...I think there will be some on the 'R' side of the aisle doing the same.
I pray no bill goes through.
No Bill is a Good Bill.
I agree with you about watching the blue dogs and the far leftists eat each other up...going to be interesting.
Obama's a Community Agitator, a walking, talking destroyer. ~ Rush Limbaugh
Obama lies about
August 16, 2009 - 15:35 ET by NL207Obama lies about everything. He lies about desiring a single-payer healthcare system. He lies about not having 'read' it so he doesn't have to answer tough questions about what's in these Bills. After he does that he procedes to tell us what is NOT in these bills. If he had not read them how does he know what ios not in these Bills?
He is lying about this too. If he says he will drop the public option, watch for an amendment in the House-Senate reconciliation version that restores the public option.
Come to think of it, he even lies about who he is.
Barack Obama in his own words about Single Payer
August 16, 2009 - 15:39 ET by Retired Geek“I happen to be a proponent of a single payer universal health care program.
I see no reason why the United States of America, the wealthiest country in the history of the world, spending 14 percent of its Gross National Product on health care cannot provide basic health insurance to everybody.
And that’s what Jim is talking about when he says everybody in, nobody out.
A single payer health care plan, a universal health care plan.
And that’s what I’d like to see. But as all of you know, we may not get there immediately.
Because first we have to take back the White House, we have to take back the Senate, and we have to take back the House.”
Barack Obama
http://www.youtube.c...
http://www.youtube.c...
http://www.youtube.c...
Question for all?
August 16, 2009 - 15:44 ET by Retired GeekThe new Health Care system as projected in HR 3200 will be an 'Independent Agency' with the Commissioner appointed by the President.
Every year the Commissioner will issue new rules.
If the public option is NOT prohibited by law - could it not become the rule again the first time the Commissioner issues the new rules?
I cannot seem to find the answer to that anywhere.
Obama doesn't need democracy to get his way
August 16, 2009 - 15:51 ET by candanceMake no mistake, the public option is not dead. Your idea is a good possibility. By hook or by crook, that zombie will come back.
Exactly, candance
August 16, 2009 - 16:55 ET by BlondeTime to keep the pressure on.
It's also time for us to shift the message somewhat. Tort Reform. Personal deductibility for insurance premiums. No government "programs".
Don't forget the Recess Rallies next Saturday at your representative's office. Oh yeah, I'm going to wear my 4th of July outfit, a lovely stars & stripes vest. And a red hat!
I hope he fails, too.
Moving the goal posts!
August 16, 2009 - 15:53 ET by fstaffSpin as you may, but the centerpiece of Obama-care was ALWAYS single payer/public option. If these reports are true this will be Obama’s “read my lips” moment. Betraying and disillusioning his base and therefore assuring one term.
so ...they're not going in the front door?
August 16, 2009 - 16:15 ET by katainkenteveryone keep an eye on the back door. I presume they can still pass regulations that will utterly crush the private industry.
___________________________________________
"The tax imposed under this section shall not be treated as tax" - HR 3200 (Health Care Bill) Pg. 203. Ln 14 & 15
I'm sure we can squash any
August 16, 2009 - 16:19 ET by Free StinkerI'm sure we can squash any other BS they put forth now.
They won't have any credibility claiming "it's only temporary/voluntary/harmless", and they've squandered any chance of passing their BS using just Obama's charm as the selling point.
"Gov. Palin has been subjected to one of the most massive and dishonest pile-on smear attacks in the history of liberal media." -- Lowell Ponte
I dunno Free
August 16, 2009 - 16:22 ET by katainkentwhen I look at the non legislative approach they've taken to handling communications I still have my concerns. But I have faith - there are so many eyes on them now I think the slightest tip of the hat will be caught.
___________________________________________
"The tax imposed under this section shall not be treated as tax" - HR 3200 (Health Care Bill) Pg. 203. Ln 14 & 15
You are right to remain concerned Kata
August 16, 2009 - 16:25 ET by Free StinkerYou are right to remain concerned Kata. We need to keep an eye on thee clowns in DC, but meanwhile . . . when Obama lost the "independants", that was then end for this Bill and a majority of his agenda.
And for fans of the "Waterloo" theory, this defeat may indeed be Obama's undoing. Only time will tell.
"Gov. Palin has been subjected to one of the most massive and dishonest pile-on smear attacks in the history of liberal media." -- Lowell Ponte
all 1300 pages need to go through the shredder
August 16, 2009 - 16:32 ET by katainkentI am so relieved to see this go down in flames. They need to step back and wait a month and start OVER. Its sad when the most comprehensive list I've seen for reform came from a guy that runs a grocery chain. But really this should be put in the hands of capable, innovative businessmen. There is, apparently, a market out there for 46 million people who need insurance. Surely someone out there with some business savvy can tap into that market and not just let the government throw money at it.
___________________________________________
"The tax imposed under this section shall not be treated as tax" - HR 3200 (Health Care Bill) Pg. 203. Ln 14 & 15
Kill the bill
August 16, 2009 - 16:23 ET by 10ksnookerTort reform now.
10k... Hear,
August 16, 2009 - 16:27 ET by bigtimer10k...
Hear, Hear!
...any other bill they pass they will have a foot in the door to add on too incrementally over time, which is exactly what they will settle for, I fear some on the 'R' side will as well.
Obama's a Community Agitator, a walking, talking destroyer. ~ Rush Limbaugh
Caption for the picture of Obama with this article
August 16, 2009 - 16:38 ET by FeynmanFanShouldn't the caption for the picture of Obama that's with this article be:
"I said PULL MY FINGER, DAMMIT!!"
→ OK Feynman
August 16, 2009 - 16:42 ET by Cool ArrowBut I like
LYDSEXICS UNTIE!
CA, that's good, too.
August 16, 2009 - 16:48 ET by FeynmanFanHow about this?
FF... Kind of like
August 16, 2009 - 16:53 ET by bigtimerFF...
Kind of like this....
Obama's a Community Agitator, a walking, talking destroyer. ~ Rush Limbaugh
→ Thanks bt
August 16, 2009 - 16:56 ET by Cool ArrowExactly like that.
LYDSEXICS UNTIE!
Obummer -
August 16, 2009 - 16:56 ET by acumenThe public option is not the deal breaker I knew.
keep alert... public option not the trojan horse in health care
August 16, 2009 - 17:07 ET by philipjamesLook, there is a larger trojan horse in health care and Sarah Palin talked about it earlier.... prior to Obama dropping the public option... and it is the "health insurance exchange".... Obama can still accomplish socialized health care by using this exchange.
Sarah Palin on August 13th
Section 100(c)(25) sets the implementation date as January 1, 2013.
Section 141 et seq. establishes a new independent agency, the “Health Choices Administration” headed by a “Health Choices Commissioner”
appointed by the President and confirmed by the Senate. One of the
commissioner’s many duties is to establish and enforce the standards
for qualified health benefit plans. These standards include premiums,
provider payment rates, covered treatments, drug coverage, and
administrative procedures. Section 122 lists the types of health
services a qualified plan must cover. However, the specifics of how
each service will be covered and for how much are left to the
commissioner.
Section 201 et seq. establishes a national health insurance exchange
controlled by the commissioner. The exchange, funded by a “Health
Insurance Exchange Trust Fund,” hires private entities to develop and
administer qualified health benefit plans under the supervision and
control of the commissioner. The commissioner decides which private
entities will be hired and how much they will be paid. The trust fund
is initially funded from general revenues and then from employer and
individual taxes. Section 204(a)(3) exempts the commissioner from the
Federal Acquisition Regulations. That means the commissioner can: a)
hire any private entity (ACORN, SEIU, AARP, UAW, AFL-CIO, etc.) to
administer every American's health insurance plan; b) pay the private
entity any amount for its services; and c) fire the private entity for
any reason or for no reason.
Section 111 prohibits any exclusion (including time delays) for any pre-existing condition.
Section
204(b)(7) requires that all private entities hired for the “exchange”
“provide for culturally and linguistically appropriate communication
and health services.”
Section 208 gives the commissioner control over any state run health insurance exchange in operation.
Section
221 et seq. establishes a government health insurance plan run by the
Department of Health and Human Services. The government health
insurance plan is essentially Medicare for everyone. The government
plan is initially funded by $2 billion from the treasury. It is then
supposed to be self-funding through premiums. The government option is
to be administered by the Secretary of Health and Human Services.
However, the government plan is subject to all Health Insurance
Exchange rules and requirements, which are set by the commissioner.
After
January 13, 2013, employers must purchase employee health insurance
from the government controlled health insurance exchange.
Section 313 requires employers to either: a) purchase from the
“exchange” a qualified health benefit plan for each employee; or b) pay
a tax to the Health Insurance Exchange Trust Fund equal to 8% of the
employer’s average payroll. Paying the 8% tax does not purchase
insurance. Employees would still have to purchase individual health
insurance from the “exchange.”
After January 13, 2013, individuals must purchase health insurance from the government controlled health insurance exchange.
Section 102 allows non-qualified individual health insurance plans
(i.e. those not obtained through an employer) to remain in effect after
January 1, 2013 unless: a) the insurance provider increases enrollment
in the plan or b) changes any term or condition of the plan. If an
individual loses her “grandfathered” health insurance after January 1,
2013, then Section 102(c)(1) requires that she purchase new health
insurance from the government run national health insurance exchange.
Section
312 automatically enrolls individuals in the government health
insurance option unless they purchase a qualified health insurance plan
(available only from the government controlled exchange) or their
employer enrolls them in a qualified plan obtained from the exchange.
Section 401 requires a surtax (2.5% of AGI) on any individual who does
not have a qualified health plan and who is not enrolled in the
government plan.
The so-called private insurance exchange is the Trojan horse.
The Insurance Exchange is just as much socialism as the government plan
because: a) the government controlled exchange is the only place
permitted to sell health insurance; and b) the government can use the
exchange rules to control the price and availability of everyone's
health insurance, and therefore, health care.
They're lying.
August 16, 2009 - 17:11 ET by RR GOPThey just want to get the protesters off of their backs so they can enjoy their vacation.
One of the 34% who thinks George W. Bush was a great President. One of the 86% who wants to bring back the stock and pillory.
Another liberal coward and media cover-up
August 16, 2009 - 17:22 ET by Prester JohnOn Drudge there is a link to an article, "Dem Congressman to avoid district entire recess....", but when you go to the page,
http://www.mercedcountytimes.net/content/2009-08-13/001850
SURPRISE, "PAGE NOT FOUND"!
The Dem congressweasel from Merced County, California is one Dennis Cardoza. I wonder what kind of in he has in the Merced County Times to have an article like that pulled? Or perhaps it was just the local Dem party.
What a bunch of sorry bastards.
The Public Option
August 16, 2009 - 17:20 ET by acumenConnecting the dots - Government Motors will sell their teeny Government Cars financed by Government Banks. When the teeny green cars get blown off a Government Highway by a sneezing Government Protected Endangered Species on the shoulder the occupants will be treated with Government Healthcare.
And the Government Media will blame the whole mess on talk radio.
The only thing missing is the public option Obummer keeps touting.
Conservies Need to Push Our Solutions Now
August 16, 2009 - 17:42 ET by candanceWe can't sit back and settle for whatever compromise they come up with. Now that we have the momentum in our favor, we need to push for tort reform, opening state lines, deregulating the laws that force insurance to pay for Viagra.
Don't let the battle cry end at "anything but ObamaCare." Keep showing up at these town halls and ask Congress why they won't even look at our ideas.
THAT is the best way to kill ObamaCare forever.
"deregulating the laws that
August 16, 2009 - 18:20 ET by QueenMum"deregulating the laws that force insurance to pay for Viagra."
Now, now Candance. Let's not be too hasty. :)
In all seriousness, I'm in complete agreement. We can't afford to let down our guard or turn our backs on those blackguards in Congress.
Note to libs: "blackguard" is NOT a racial slur.
"The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out
of other people's money."
—Margaret Thatcher
Hey Mike. Obama looks a bit
August 16, 2009 - 18:02 ET by QueenMumHey Mike. Obama looks a bit shopworn in that photo. Is it a current one?
"The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out
of other people's money."
—Margaret Thatcher
I Can't Wait Until Tomorrow
August 16, 2009 - 19:17 ET by sic721As soon as Glenn Beck is over, I'm going to spend 10 minutes watching Ed Schultz's 'Op-Ed' and watch him pop a vein!!!
There was a Texas Ranger one time who said that there's no stopping a man who knows he's in the right and keeps a-coming.--Louis L'Amour
sic... LOL...and you know
August 16, 2009 - 19:26 ET by bigtimersic...
LOL...and you know he just will!
I can't handle watching much of him...let us know.
Obama's a Community Agitator, a walking, talking destroyer. ~ Rush Limbaugh
Looks like the special interests groups win?
August 16, 2009 - 19:37 ET by BrittanicusThe Special Interest lobbyists are spending $millions, spilling their
lies to the American people. So many lies that they have likely
disrupted any chance of Universal health care. They have lied so much
about the Canada system, and paid off so many people to give birth to
their lies, that the gullible population believes them.
The wealthy
insurers want no change, so they can ring every dollar out of a
system that wrought with fraud and corruption. In the long run cost will
explode and only the upper class will have the money to buy care. Lose
your job and even those people will join the millions out of work unble
to pay for medical care for their family.
The Status Quo are selling propaganda and downright lies, across the
TV, radio bandwidths. LIES! Lies and more lies about both Health care
and illegal immigration. The facts are that President Obama has an
objective of introducing a Canadian and European type single payer
system.
In truth it's like a nationwide--MEDICARE--like all senior
citizens receive now. It's only difference their will be--NO CO-PAYS,
DEDUCTIONS, NO PREMIUMS AND NO PRE -EXISTING CONDITIONS. The Special
interest lobbyists, who work for the wealthy health care industry, are
using every means possible to derail any kind of Universal health care.
We must remember the British/English, French, German, Danish and other
have been well accepted by their population for decades, with no
worries about bankruptcy or Debt collectors calling. My health care in
England, was first class when I lived in there, without financial
worries and no distractions from profiteering insurance companies.As a
child and a young man I choose my doctor and received eye
and dentistry visits free of charges.
I NEVER HAD TO WAIT FOR A
SURGERY FOR MONTHS, AS THE SPECIAL INTEREST LOBBY TRIES TO IMPLY?
EMERGENCY PROCEDURES WERE DEALT WITH IMMEDIATELY. One should
remember that there a
large majority of nefarious special interest groups, who enjoy the
status quo and will fight with propaganda and lies against their
profiteering. Another place where I lived was Australia, where the
health care system is equally as great as England. One year I was
employed by Australian Main Roads as a junior surveyor and stepped
into a fire ants nest, ending up in hospital. Once again my cost
was--ZERO--because I paid into the system. There is something very
calming, without the worry of billing statements pouring through the
mailbox demanding money and threatening you with an attorney.
Since the inception of the European common market and the directive of
open borders for cheap labor pouring into the industrialized
nations, they have been overwhelmed by the impoverished needing
health care. Such conditions didn't exist before the 1960's, as the
their was no mass immigration and waiting periods. In America today
and since the newest waves of legal and illegal immigration, costs to
medicate these people have sky rocketed who have never paid one penny
into the system. Each previous government never have restricted
immigration, but allowed taxpayers to pay for their health care and
welfare benefits. Each year approximately 1.5 million new immigrants
are granted work visas and many become public charges.
Now Obama is insisting on yet another AMNESTY, which will be even
costlier to the American taxpayers, so says the Heritage foundation.
American taxpayers should not have to subsidize US businesses, which
has been happening for years? A large majority of pariah corporate
executives, do not want any restrictions on foreign national workers,
that is why they have tried to kill a mandated E-Verify identity data
base, to extract all illegal immigrants from the working environment.
That SANCTUARY STATES like California
must rescind illegal immigrant refuge policies. That President Obama's
health
care renewal plan—WILL--attract millions more impoverished people from
around
the world. That they can join with the 20 plus million already here, to
get
free medical care under the Democrats law now passing through Congress.
Observe this PETITION to STOP any health care to illegal immigrants
at: http://www.thepetitionsite.com/1/nohealthcareforillegals
Gosh Britt... I've sure
August 16, 2009 - 19:41 ET by bigtimerGosh Britt...
I've sure missed your absence around here.
Obama's a Community Agitator, a walking, talking destroyer. ~ Rush Limbaugh
Unless I misunderstood, Ear
August 16, 2009 - 20:37 ET by MikeBUnless I misunderstood, Ear Leader more or less dropped a "public option" for "insurance co-ops that would be subject to the same standards of solvency as insurance companies." Hey, Jugears, there are already such organizations. They're called Mutual Insurance Companies. In a mutual insurance company, the policy holders own the company, as opposed to stock insurance companies where stock holders own the company.
If these insurance co-ops are required to maintain solvency the same as a mutual or stock company, they will either have to have the same exclusions of pre-existing conditions, or charge significantly higher premiums. Teh One and many others simply cannot wrap their brains around the fact that insurance companies, whether health, life, or property/casualty, assume the risk for an event that has not yet occurred. In other words, you can't buy fire insurance for your house while it is burning down, you can't buy collision insurance for your vehicle after an accident, and you can't buy life insurance on your spouse after they are dead. Why should a health insurer be forced to pay for an event that has already occurred? If someone neglected to purchase health insurance while they were healthy, why should the taxpayers be forced to pay for their negligence?
Insurance is already the most heavily regulated industry in the country. None of them, whether life, health, or p&c can just arbitrarily raise premiums. They have to request the premium increase from the insurance commission in the state where they want to raise rates. The insurance commission reviews the request and then either allows the request, allows a modified premium increase, or denies the increase. Insurance companies are not charities, nor can they be.
"A communist is someone who reads Marx. An anti-communist is someone who understands Marx." Ronald Reagan
Beware
August 16, 2009 - 21:13 ET by justbob223Beware, people. Obama will make a tactical retreat on the public option in order to get something passed. Then later, he and his minions will be back with a vengeance to impose it upon us. Any health care bill passed will be nothing more than incremental socialism. These evil people never give up; they just change tactics.
I am not buying this "Public Option is Dead" BS for a second
August 16, 2009 - 23:21 ET by R D HelmThese people are Marxists to their very core.
They will not rest until they have executed a 100% government take-over of this nation's health care system, and they will use whatever deception they can come up with to accomplish this, too.
Besides, every part of this hideous "reform" plan must die, not just this part.
-Dave
Been Flagged yet? If not, try harder.
Dave, Agreed! I'm
August 17, 2009 - 00:06 ET by SvenDave,
Agreed!
I'm heartended to know we at least got their attention, but I like you I DO NOT TRUST this man!
He's nothing but a Lying Marxist, Thug! I think the RNC and other groups should continue to not only put ads out showing the failure of socialized medicine, but also show through his own words, that he has a history of lies and deception, especially on this issue!
People should hear this chumps own words that one of his goals, expressed several times to different groups, is that he wants to see the Single Payer Public Option. Oh, and lets continue to remind our seniors and those who have serious illnesses, that he also supports "Death Panels!"
These idiot Republicans had better not go along with this...but alas, I'm sure Lindsey Graham already has a Hard-** to sign on with the Dems to show how Bipartisan he is!! I'm praying these RINOS don't shoot us in the foot on this issue...yet again!!
Sven,
August 19, 2009 - 23:39 ET by R D HelmI trust them about as far as I could throw them.
And that includes the repubes that voted for TARP & Porkulus, too.
-Dave
Why are all my favorite rock bands Canadian or British?
August 17, 2009 - 10:26 ET by jessieHThe federal government won't stop till they give our country to Mexico. Only about 12% of americans don't have healthcare. Most are the young, and they may be covered by their parents. The rest are here illegally. They broke the law of the land & go un-punished. I won't pay ANY taxes if the govt ignors our laws. No Taxation Without Representation!