Open Thread: Change We Don't Believe In
Today's starter topic: Do you believe that President Obama has fulfilled his promise to "fundamentally transform America?" In a poll commissioned by The Hill newspaper, about two-thirds of Americans agree with that statement. Among those who agree, a sizable majority, 56 percent to 35 percent, say Obama has changed America for worse rather than for better.
That's somewhat significant but what's more significant is that nearly 20 percent of sellf-identified Democrats say that Obama has brought more negative than positive change. Not everyone agrees with the notion that Obama has done anything that substantial, however.
In an op-ed in today's Wall Street Journal, American Enterprise Institute president Arthur Brooks argues that "America already is Europe:"
I'm often asked if I think America is trending toward becoming a European-style social democracy. My answer is: "No, because we already are a European-style social democracy." From the progressivity of our tax code, to the percentage of GDP devoted to government, to the extent of the regulatory burden on business, most of Europe's got nothing on us.
In 1938—the year my organization, the American Enterprise Institute, was founded—total government spending at all levels was about 15% of GDP. By 2010 it was 36%. The political right can crow all it wants about how America is a "conservative country," unlike, say, Spain—a country governed by the Spanish Socialist Workers Party for most of the past 30 years. But at 36%, U.S. government spending relative to GDP is very close to Spain's. And our debt-to-GDP ratio is 103%; Spain's is 68%. [...]
The second force leading us down the social-democratic road is cronyism. America possesses a full-time bipartisan political apparatus dedicated to government growth and special deals for favored individuals and sectors. For example, the farm bill that just passed the Senate contains around $100 billion in subsidies, mostly for large, corporate farms that do nothing to improve nutrition or food security. Or witness the recently reauthorized Export-Import Bank, which doles out about $20 billion annually in corporate welfare.
Third, and most importantly, while a majority of Americans are neither leftists nor corporate cronies, they aren't paying much attention to the political system. We often hear that more than 85% of Americans disapprove of the job Congress is doing. But, according to the 2000 Social Capital Community Benchmark Survey, only 25% of American adults can correctly name both of their U.S. senators, and 51% can name neither. If I don't know who my senator is, I am unlikely to know much about his bridge to nowhere.
What do you think?
- Matthew Sheffield's blog
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Comments
“56 percent to 35 percent,
Submitted by needle on Mon, 07/09/2012 - 10:14am.
“56 percent to 35 percent, say Obama has changed America for worse rather than for better.”
I further believe that we will see the end of America as a beacon of hope against tyranny, if Obama is re-elected.
- Looking forward to the self-annihilation of the Manipulated Stories Machine.
And the beginning
Submitted by jon_torlin on Mon, 07/09/2012 - 10:17am.
And the beginning of what might as well be the prequel to the movie "Idiocracy." Assuming the Muslims don't kill us off.
-Jon
"Brawndo has what plants need!"
Submitted by Free Stinker on Mon, 07/09/2012 - 10:24am.
And ObamAA+ has what Peasants need. Citizens, not so much. We're screwed.
/// Sarah Palin Fan since July 11, 2007 /// خال
"Brawndo has what plants need!"
Submitted by Free Stinker on Mon, 07/09/2012 - 10:24am.
And ObamAA+ has what Peasants need. Citizens, not so much. We're screwed.
/// Sarah Palin Fan since July 11, 2007 /// خال
You have to wonder
Submitted by jon_torlin on Mon, 07/09/2012 - 10:16am.
If the polls indicated above show the lack of information or unintentional ignorance of the American people are any indication, which is both surprising and not surprising in this day of information being readily available at a moment's notice, one has to wonder how things were 150-200 years ago when the USA was still in its infancy?
One also has to wonder how idiotic people have gotten when it comes to letting the democracy-loving/socialism-loving(and now Islam-loving since we have two muslims in office, not counting the bogus potus, none of whom have any business holding an American office because being of Islam is in direct violation of the oath to the Constitution anyway) get elected. By being that ignorant, it gets taken advantage of and we end up where we are today.
God help us and this country. We are so screwed.
-Jon
10 Things You Should Know About the American Founding
Submitted by GW on Mon, 07/09/2012 - 2:05pm.
http://www.catholicworldreport.com/Item/1461/10_things_you_should_know_a...
Item 4
The level of education for Americans at the time was astounding. Though no public schools existed in any recognizable sense in the eighteenth century, some “Common Schools” did. At a Common School, tutors and teachers drilled students for hours in Greek and Latin. Even if a student only attended school from, say, ages 6-8, he would learn only classical languages. Parents were expected to teach their children to read, almost always from the King James Bible. The colonists met with great success, and the American colonies probably contained the single most literate people in the world at that time. For those attending one of the several colleges in the American colonies (Harvard, Yale, William and Mary, King’s College (Columbia)), a liberal education was the only real education. As the grand historian of the period, Forrest McDonald, has revealed, when a student entered college (usually at age 14 or 15), he would need to prove fluency in Latin and Greek. He would need to “read and translate from the original Latin into English ‘the first three of [Cicero’s] Select Orations and the first three books of Virgil’s Aeneid’ and to translate the first ten chapters of the Gospel of John from Greek into Latin, as well as to be ‘expert in arithmetic’ and to have a ‘blameless moral character.’” Keeping this in mind, Americans should not be surprised to see the seventy-plus classical references in The Federalist Papers or the architecture of the Capitol building. Americans were, second only to their Protestantism, a classically oriented people.
Come on, Jon.
Submitted by Newsbubba on Mon, 07/09/2012 - 4:33pm.
We need to start thinking of this as a test of will, and as a challenge.
Our mission is not to fear this RBFSOB, but to make him fear us, the conservative voters.
This is war, baby, so get right. He has got to go.
I vote with the 56%.
Cold front moved in today. Only 100!!
No fear here
Submitted by jon_torlin on Mon, 07/09/2012 - 4:48pm.
No fear on my part, I've dealt with bullies almost my entire childhood till I graduated high school(some of them were done worse than was done to me, that's all I'll say), but one thing I've noticed is that in many cases where you have a bully around, there aren't enough people willing to stand up to the sorry piece of crap. And there are quite a few in the cabinet, Salazar, Sebelius, Nappy Janet, LaHood(the Hood), Pistole, Holder, just to name a few.
There's where I see the Republicans in the House, not enough of them are going to get mad enough to stand up to the possob for various reasons.
And considering all the stuff going on lately, I think we can safely say that he does fear the conservatives.
-Jon
Obama's "change" strategy is
Submitted by celator on Mon, 07/09/2012 - 10:22am.
Obama's "change" strategy is a near perfect reflection of the Cloward Piven Strategy: overload the systems and institutions of a country until its economic and cultural institutions collapse. He was a student at Columbia while Cloward and Pivens were teaching there. Did he sit at the feet of Cloward and Pivens and soak up every word?
http://clowardpivenstrategy.com/obama-cloward-piven-connection.html
And yet...
Submitted by c5then on Mon, 07/09/2012 - 10:53am.
The polls show a close race between Obama and Romney. Ususally within the margin of error. This amazes, befuddles and upsets me.If 56% of the people think that Obama has changed things for the worse, that means that near 10% of those same people are planning to vote for him again!!!!
How is this even possible???!!!! Then I look at politicians like Rostankowski, and Rangle and others and realize that there is a sizable minority of the electorate who will only vote for someone of a particular party and will vote for that party regardless of the candidate and in complete ignorance of who they actually are or what they have or haven't done.
We are like the people on the space ship in the movie "WALL-E". We are fed and entertained and the vast majority are completely oblivious to anything else. It's a wonder we are not all tooling around in "hover-rounds".
Madison and Jefferson and Franklin built a Republic - Roberts killed it!
Summer Morning Mathematics
Submitted by Clyde Gatton on Mon, 07/09/2012 - 12:16pm.
"...56% of the people think that Obama has changed things for the worse, that means that near 10%..."
Well....It's not 56% of the people...it's 56% of the two-thirds who believe he has fulfilled his stated goal of fundamentally changing the country, which makes it about 56% of 67% or .56 x .67, which equals only 37.5% of the people.
The actual implication is that about 10% of those who are not planning on voting for NObama believe he has not fulfilled his desire to change the country. This statement also assumes those who believe the change he has wrought has made the country better are all planning to vote for him, which may or may not be true.
V/R
Clyde
"...the aspirants to tyranny are either the...men of the state, who in democracies are demagogues,... or those who hold great offices, and have a long tenure.." - Aristotle, Politics, c350BC
We constantly hear that Obama
Submitted by billb on Mon, 07/09/2012 - 11:02am.
We constantly hear that Obama is a brilliant campaigner. He is NOT! The media is!
With the media on his team...
Submitted by c5then on Mon, 07/09/2012 - 11:25am.
No one asked the question: "Fundamentally transform the country how? in what way?
The answer that none of the media wanted to get out is: Toward Marxism.
The plan is to take the vast wealth of the "country" and re-distribute that to all it's people. Except that Marx assumed that it would start with a monarchy that had accumulated the wealth through the forced labor of serfs. We are now in a free society where each person's wealth is his own that he accumulated through his own hard work and labor. While the switch to Marxism (or socialism) could be argued as socialy justified when starting from an unwanted monarchy and rhetorically equated to "Robin Hood", switching to socialism from a free market republic is more akin to a car jacking.
And because "all men are liars" what you actuelly get is a transfer of wealth to the select few who are in charge of the transfer, and the equal poverty of everyone else. And that is the best case scenario.
Madison and Jefferson and Franklin built a Republic - Roberts killed it!
Obama is sneaking things in
Submitted by DontFeedTheTrolls on Mon, 07/09/2012 - 11:17am.
Obama is sneaking things in behind the scenes, as well as passing laws like Obamacare in the open, things that will take years to bear it's ugly fruit.
If the polls are even close to accurate, America is over
Submitted by Dave. on Mon, 07/09/2012 - 11:18am.
If half the electorate is still willing to vote for this fraud of a POTUS, it doesn't matter who wins in November, because this country will simply not survive stupidy at that level.
-Dave
Vote for the American in November
And the worst part...
Submitted by c5then on Mon, 07/09/2012 - 11:33am.
Is that there are plenty of folks who call themselves "Republicans" who agree with the end-point of the trip Obama wants to take us on, they just disagree with the speed that we should travel down the road.
Unfortunately, these are the folks that have given us Romney as our other choice. Notice the lack of hard message out of Romney about the mandate being a new tax. He says that, well, it might be a tax but it might not. Now there is talk that repealing Obamacare is going to be difficult and maybe we should try to fix the stuff that is wrong with it instead of a complete repeal...
I'm not sure that if Romney gets elected he won't just pull back on the throtle a bit but not touch the wheel at all.
This is why the Senate is more important than the Presidency in this election.
Madison and Jefferson and Franklin built a Republic - Roberts killed it!
Extending Bush Tax Cuts
Submitted by billb on Mon, 07/09/2012 - 11:43am.
Ask any of the people who will benefit from this extension, if they think their employer should ALSO benefit from this extension.
Democrats always rail,"why go back to the failed policies of the past." Now I'm asking,"If those policies were so bad, why is Obama extending these failed Bush Policies?"
Lately the meme is "The president can't control the economy," unless your name is George Bush. Their statement should read,"THIS president can't improve the economy."
He really has no choice
Submitted by c5then on Mon, 07/09/2012 - 12:05pm.
The "bush tax cuts" eliminated the lowest tax bracket and reduced the % in all the remaining brackets (the bigest reduction in % was in the lower brackets). So if "they don't do anything" and "they" means Obama to most people, the lowest income earners are going to get a massive tax increase. Not only that, but there will be a couple tens of thousands of people who will have to start paying income tax that were exempt before. They go from nothing to 10%. Fo people making less than $50k a year that is a HUGE hit.
But here is my prediction. He will make all kinds of statements about this, but the democrats in the Senate will make sure that NOTHING gets done before election day (while blaming the GOP). If Obama loses, he won't care and he'll be perfectly happy to let the taxes rise on everybody especially the lower incomes because when it hits in Jan and Feb. the Dems will blame the republicans. If Obama wins in November, the push will be to extend the cuts (which are now the standard tax rates) ASAP so he doesn't cause a double-dip recession. The Dems will say that they saved America from the evil Bush again because he was going to let the taxes rise and the GOP were going to let it happen.
Madison and Jefferson and Franklin built a Republic - Roberts killed it!
Well, he sure changed me
Submitted by StarAZ on Mon, 07/09/2012 - 11:40am.
I was a Dem, for one. I was self-confident of being able to wrest a living from the crumbs of the economy as a freelance writer. I had hope for my 30-yr-old. Now, the first thing I said to myself this AM is don't cry until Wed at the earliest--you just can't cry on Monday. I am broke, my house is hopelessly upsidedown, the malls around me in AZ are half empty, the federal govt hates this state and picks on it, and I feel completely left out of the American deal now. And I actually do not think George Bush did it to me! I look to the the savior, the one who said we were waiting for him, that he could change the rising tides--well, what a joke. The other day, my daughter said none of HER friends even care who the president is. I wish I could be like them.
I feel your pain, Star
Submitted by Blonde on Mon, 07/09/2012 - 12:10pm.
If I were a resident of Arizona, I'd be furious and hopeless, too.
Handy Reference Guide to Obama's Gaffes and Goofs ~ Currently Numbering 200 (and Counting)
Really?
Submitted by StarAZ on Mon, 07/09/2012 - 1:07pm.
Are you being nice or is that a slap at AZ--yet another slap at AZ? Don't forget, the admin is defining this state, too, although we have a few kinda wacky types here--starting with our dear Sheriff.
I believe Blonde is being nice.
Submitted by motherbelt on Mon, 07/09/2012 - 2:04pm.
And I'm with her. I'd be furious if my state were being treated like Arizona is.
Ready to eat sandals~
Submitted by GG_NB on Mon, 07/09/2012 - 2:38pm.
If Blonde WASN'T being nice, I'll eat my sandals. I don't get why you'd think otherwise, but it's not like I haven't taken things the wrong way on here once in awhile, and I get how upset you feel about Arizona so...
Anyway, if anyone does NOT feel badly for how Arizonia is being used and abused, I don't know where their heart or head is at -- what happened to protecting American citizens?! Arizona is one of our states, and we all should be outraged at how O and Co. has literally abandoned that state and left it with no viable protections. It's disgraceful. Perhaps if The White House was moved over toward that border, he'd care!
I've written about Jan Brewer before, but may she continue to have the strength to fight for Arizona. It's so sad to me.
Note: MB -- sorry I accidentally replied to your post instead.
"If not us, who? If not now, when?"
~Ronald Reagan
OK--sniff--I am mollified
Submitted by StarAZ on Mon, 07/09/2012 - 4:02pm.
For a second there, I thought Blonde was referring to some in our legislature who are, shall we say, sort of different. Or our often alleged scorn for Mexican nationals. Or some darn thing AZ is always getting tagged with. I am glad that wasn't it. They are kind of ornery here and wear ties with a big rock on them, but hey.
It's okay, Star~
Submitted by GG_NB on Mon, 07/09/2012 - 4:11pm.
We're FOR you. So sorry for what all you guys are going through. :(
"If not us, who? If not now, when?"
~Ronald Reagan
Yes its ok Star*
Submitted by cajun2 on Mon, 07/09/2012 - 4:17pm.
All of us citizens and certain states feel we are targeted for Obama attacks. We may be a little sensitive about now. Come Nov, we hope this eliminates the jitters.
Caj~
Submitted by GG_NB on Mon, 07/09/2012 - 4:27pm.
A pro-Obama ad came on last night night while we were watching TV. My husband and I just started laughing. Don't even waste your money on Georgia! Actually, go ahead. Waste your money. Romney will have ads here, too.
"If not us, who? If not now, when?"
~Ronald Reagan
Gosh, Star
Submitted by Blonde on Mon, 07/09/2012 - 4:23pm.
I have no idea why you wouldn't take what I wrote as being sincere. Well, unless I were under attack by Eric Von Holder (oh wait, Florida is too).
It's positively disgraceful the way this administration has run over the various state's rights, and poor Arizona seems to be at the top of the hit list.
Truly, the only thing I can't forgive Arizona for is John McRino.
I like Sheriff Joe. He's not taking crap from anyone, whatsoever. Good for him.
Handy Reference Guide to Obama's Gaffes and Goofs ~ Currently Numbering 200 (and Counting)
The Class war is on again...
Submitted by c5then on Mon, 07/09/2012 - 12:20pm.
Did it ever really stop?
Obama says he is 100% committed to a tax hike for "those making more than $250,000 a year". Except as we all know who pay taxes and fill out the forms, the taxes phase in at a much lower point and are then "fully implemented" at the "target" amount.
So even people making much less than $250,000 are going to take a hit in January if Obama gets his way. Maybe down to $100,000. This is all on top of the Obamacare taxes that kick in in January too. Like the 3.8% surtax on investments (stock, bonds, etc...) This is over an above what you pay on any dividends or capital gains.
Why do democrats always use the old Marxist meme of grouping people into classes in order to pit one against the other? It just doesn't seem to be American.
Madison and Jefferson and Franklin built a Republic - Roberts killed it!
Will people learn from history?
Submitted by jon_torlin on Mon, 07/09/2012 - 12:39pm.
Last time I heard some presidential candidate wanting to raise our taxes, he lost in a landslide of 49 states to one state and that was Walter Mondale. He was a creepy as hell dude and I remember how dirty I felt when I saw him say the thing about wanting to raise taxes and how he will "take care of you." Euch. So it's safe to say people were pretty smart about things back then.
Are they just as smart or have they been dumbed down enough that someone such as the bogus potus who already raised our taxes, practically destroyed our economy, pretty much shat on our Constitution, who PROMISES to raise our taxes even much higher than before, including as indicated above, will those people be dumb enough to want to keep him as their lord and savior and master?
Back in the 80s, I could say yeah, they wouldn't let someone like that around, but here we are 30 years later and I honestly have no idea what answer to give now with today's population in America.
-Jon
Not Really Smart
Submitted by Clyde Gatton on Mon, 07/09/2012 - 3:28pm.
"...people were pretty smart about things back then."
I'm not certain if they were smarter, or just less dependent.
In 1984, when Mondale ran, 14.8% of the population paid no taxes and/or were dependent on the government for subsistance, not including those who actually worked for the goverment. Adding the 2% who actually did work for the goverment yielded about 17% of the population directly reliant on the goverment for livelihood. Result: Mondale rejection.
Today, about 49.5% pay no taxes or are dependent on handouts from the feds, which when coupled with the current 16% directly employed by the government yields just under 66% reliant on the government for their livelihood. Result: ????
How about "No pay taxes, no vote"?
V/R
Clyde
"...the aspirants to tyranny are either the...men of the state, who in democracies are demagogues,... or those who hold great offices, and have a long tenure.." - Aristotle, Politics, c350BC
It doesn't seem to be....
Submitted by Blonde on Mon, 07/09/2012 - 12:39pm.
...because it ISN'T!
Marxist all the way. Just like Obama.
Handy Reference Guide to Obama's Gaffes and Goofs ~ Currently Numbering 200 (and Counting)
Gawd, France will pay you to take their money....
Submitted by upcountrywater on Mon, 07/09/2012 - 12:38pm.
A few years ago I bought a new truck at 0% interest...I joked with the sales guy that he should to a negative percentage rate to stay ahead of the competition.
Well France just did that... talk about worthless paper.. Need to pay folk to take it off your hands...
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/E/EU_FRANCE_FINANCIAL_CRISIS?SITE=A...
You Didn't Build That.
Since it's an open thread
Submitted by Par for the Course on Mon, 07/09/2012 - 12:41pm.
Since it's an open thread, I thought I'd post something totally off topic.
It doesn't seem that far to me. :)
A nice place to visit
Submitted by CobraMan on Mon, 07/09/2012 - 12:53pm.
Sure, the center of our galaxy is a nice place to visit, but you couldn't live there, for long. ;-)
By the way: "super-massive black hole." Is that a synonym for our federal government? If not, it should be!
The Citizens of each State shall be entitled to all Privileges and Immunities of Citizens in the several States. The US Constitution
Unless you're a fetus. The US Supreme Court
Or Anwar al-Awlaki.
Change we don't believe in*
Submitted by cajun2 on Mon, 07/09/2012 - 1:33pm.
Disqus
Ditto
Submitted by GG_NB on Mon, 07/09/2012 - 1:51pm.
:(
"If not us, who? If not now, when?"
~Ronald Reagan
If you want to feel insignificant....
Submitted by motherbelt on Mon, 07/09/2012 - 2:18pm.
Looking OUTWARD from our galaxy is mind-blowing!
Texas says "no way!"
Submitted by jon_torlin on Mon, 07/09/2012 - 1:31pm.
Ok, so it's not that in so many words, but one wishes it would be. Either way, the line's been drawn.
There are other sites to this, but this link shows the dems' response to it, and this site is a bit on the liberal side, they are definitely in the tank for Obeyme.
http://austin.ynn.com/content/top_stories/285716/texas-won-t-implement-k...
So how will the fed gov't treat Texas from here on out? Can't be any worse than usual, but these are thugs in the WH. No telling....
-Jon
We are already on the (rhymes with "hit") list.
Submitted by drsamherman on Mon, 07/09/2012 - 4:07pm.
1) W Bush was born and lives here
2) Deep red state with only a few blue spots
3) Drawing businesses away from the left coast and other fringies
4) Lots of military bases
5) Entire state is thumbing its nose at Chairman Zero
6) Obama is as popular in Texas as H1N1 influenza and/or Strep throat
7) Bams treated Perry like a pariah at public events
8) State passed voter ID law
9) State would easily meet its goal for a "send Eric Holder to Gitmo" telethon
Oops!
Submitted by Rukus on Mon, 07/09/2012 - 7:54pm.
Saw the title of the thread and thought it was an FB/Disqus forum. Silly me.
Ruk,
Submitted by Dave. on Mon, 07/09/2012 - 9:10pm.
LOL.
-Dave
Vote for the American in November