Open Thread: Voting With Their Feet
Liberals like to believe that tax and regulation policies have no effect on the economy despite mountains of evidence to the contrary. The latest proof of this comes via the Tax Foundation which calculated that millions of Americans are leaving high-tax areas like New York or California in favor of lower-tax jurisdictions like Texas or Florida. As a result, the tax-happy states are missing out on billions of dollars in revenues they might have been able to have otherwise had their residents stayed put:
New York State accounted for the biggest migration exodus of any state in the nation between 2000 and 2010, with 3.4 million residents leaving over that period, according to the Tax Foundation.
Over that decade the state gained 2.1 million, so net migration amounted to 1.3 million, representing a loss of $45.6 billion in income.
Where are they escaping to? The Tax Foundation found that more than 600,000 New York residents moved to Florida over the decade – opting perhaps for the Sunshine State’s more lenient tax system – taking nearly $20 billion in adjusted growth income with them.
Over that same time period, 208,794 Pennsylvanians moved to Florida, taking $8 billion in income.
“Many of these New York and Pennsylvania residents no doubt moved to Florida for the warm weather,” says the foundation, a nonpartisan research group. “[B]ut many more may have moved there because the state does not have an individual income tax, an estate tax, nor an inheritance tax.” [...]
California is also known for more onerous taxes and regulations, and the foundation shows similar trends of migration from there to other states like Texas and Arizona.
The Tax Foundation ranked the Golden State sixth highest in the nation for state and local tax burden in 2009.
Between 2000 and 2010, the most recent data available, 551,914 people left California for Texas, taking $14.3 billion in income. Texas has no state income tax or estate tax.
A total of 48,877 people moved to Texas from California between 2009 and 2010 alone, totaling $1.2 billion in income. Another 28,088 from California relocated to Nevada and 30,663 to Arizona, a loss of $699.1 million and $707.8 million in income respectively.
- Matthew Sheffield's blog
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Comments
Matthew
Submitted by 4for4 on Wed, 05/30/2012 - 10:00am.
Despite these numbers both states have seen a growth in population over these years. How do these numbers work into +/- income?
#'s of poor Mexicans up in CA
Submitted by almostacowboy on Wed, 05/30/2012 - 10:46am.
Numbers of "well to do" whites, like me & almostacowgirl, are taking what's left of our "wealth" somewhere else before the state takes it, an earthquake wrecks it, or a fire burns it.
ALL of which seems to be
Submitted by chiefpayne on Wed, 05/30/2012 - 2:25pm.
naturally occuring in California.
Frankly, you could pay me enough to go there...because I know the state would take it all anyway.
BTW, I heard the Hollywood types are leaving too...going to Canada and France. Wonder what Brown-out will do when the only people LEFT in his state are those on government handouts???
What will he do?
Submitted by almostacowboy on Thu, 05/31/2012 - 6:54am.
He'll be reelected, of course. :-)
You know the funniest thing about these "movers?"
Submitted by Newsbubba on Wed, 05/30/2012 - 10:03am.
They truck on down to FL because the states they live in have been totally screwed up by liberal policies for years. Then when they get down here, they continue to vote for those same Fluking liberal type politicians!!!! Is that brilliant or what?!?
I'm beginning to think that the DNC recruits these fools and talks them into moving to more conservative states with the goal of screwing them up just like NY and CA. Kind of like an Islamist invasion, but without the high birth rate since most of them are too old and stupid to breed. Unfortunately they ain't past the point of learning how to vote more than once, or after they are dead.
I would agree with you..
Submitted by almostacowboy on Wed, 05/30/2012 - 10:50am.
100% a few years ago and you're feeling the results of that now. But, I'm not sure that's the majority of the ones who're leaving now, like we'uns.
You're right, Cowboy.
Submitted by Newsbubba on Wed, 05/30/2012 - 11:02am.
I have a bunch of friends from places like, NYC, PA, all over New England, and even Minnesota, Wisconsin, and Chicagoland, who are very, very, conservative who have moved down in the last 7 or 8 years.
Saving all that tax money is just an added bonus to them. They really are bringing a more conservative look to "the islands" as well as a lot of cash.
It is amazing how much money you can save not paying confiscatory state taxes to some of these "socialist states." Many claim that they save more money than it actually costs them to move and live in paradise!
Not a bad deal.
The same thing has happened
Submitted by misterbee241 on Wed, 05/30/2012 - 10:59am.
in my section of Virginia. What's more they like the government services they left behind. So, they vote to raise taxes so they can continue those hand outs including more schools. And where do they work? Northern Virginia or DC. Nothing but retail jobs around here. And on top of all that, nobody speaks with a Virginia accent around here any more. I can barely understand people when they talk, especially young people because they all talk so bloody fast.
Who the hell says we want them?
Submitted by RESTLESS 1 on Wed, 05/30/2012 - 10:10am.
If you're just bringing your liberal hate with you, stay home.
Bumper sticker seen 'round these parts:
"Welcome to Texas, now go home".
I think many that move into
Submitted by rbosque on Wed, 05/30/2012 - 10:14am.
I think many that move into those high tax states are illegals / legals. They haven't been here long enough to accumulate any appreciable amount of wealth to avoid taxation and are filling the void of those that left. California has put on it's state ballot a measure that would tax fleeing tax payers regardless to what state they go to, the problem is that bad. I don't blame people for leaving- it helps themselves and screws idiotic Democrat's taxation plans. They just don't understand simple economics.
Worse than that.
Submitted by Newsbubba on Wed, 05/30/2012 - 10:31am.
The ones moving into the high tax states are coming for the freebies that the government pays them. They don't even pretend to pay taxes, or have any need to avoid them.
Then one day the state reaches the tipping point where they earners and taxpayers who are still left aren't paying enough for the liberal government to cover all the expenses of buying votes from the freeloaders, and they have to be bailed out by the rest of the country.
Is this a great plan or what?!?
Georgia's new immigration law~
Submitted by GG_NB on Wed, 05/30/2012 - 1:39pm.
Well, a very interesting thing happened around here. Our city seemed to have many Mexican workers, in increasing numbers, working construction. They didn't speak a word of English...and there were more substantial reasons than just rumors that they were illegals. Nothing was done.
Then Georgia recently passed one of the toughest immigration laws in the country. Guess what happened? They left.
The O Administration didn't like it but have chosen (so far) not to sue:
http://www.ajc.com/news/georgia-politics-elections/obama-administration-...
"If not us, who? If not now, when?"
~Ronald Reagan
Honoring a socialist bastard
Submitted by ricklail on Wed, 05/30/2012 - 10:22am.
The Medal of Freedom used to be for Americans that had accomplished something. It looks like now it about of worthless as a Noble Peace prize.
http://weaselzippers.us/2012/05/29/pic-of-the-day-obama-winks-before-awa...
Just one "socialist bastard" honoring another one.
Submitted by Newsbubba on Wed, 05/30/2012 - 10:39am.
My favorite was Bob (mumble, mumble, mumble) Dylan.
Dylan has always been like the movie, "The English Patient," to me. Everybody keeps telling me how great he/it is, and I keep wondering why they say that, because i think that he/it sucks.
I used to think that something was wrong with me and "The English Patient" thing until an episode of Seinfeld proved me right, and the majority wrong.
Now the little RBFSOB has validated my feelings about Dylan. He really, really does suck!!
Thanks, Barackomo. (never thought I'd get to say that)
Bubba
Submitted by ricklail on Wed, 05/30/2012 - 10:42am.
This should ahve at least made Fox News but I have yet to see anything about it.
When I heard this about Dylan
Submitted by inquiringmind on Wed, 05/30/2012 - 11:19am.
When I heard this about Dylan I had to laugh because a few years ago he came out and said he never belived in all that crap that he sang about but rather he was in it for the money.
And the one person who was deserving of the award,
Submitted by dzejk113 on Wed, 05/30/2012 - 7:34pm.
Jan Karski, who fought in the Polish resistance and risked his life to inform the Allies about the holocaust, the bumbler in chief screwed up the presentation by insulting all of Poland, one of our staunchest allies (which explains why Obama seems to hate them), when he said "Polish death camps". THEY WERE NAZI DEATH CAMPS, YOU MORON!!! The Nazis murdered millions of Poles in those camps as well as Jews. This president can't seem to stop himself from insulting our friends.
The cause and effect is too long a time period
Submitted by c5then on Wed, 05/30/2012 - 10:22am.
If the linkage is longer than an election cycle, the liberals don't notice it and won't believe that it exists.
Also to be fair, most of that was retirement re-locations. They would have left anyway. What would be good to study is why Florida gained so many as opposed to Georgia, South Carolina and Alabama. Also why Texas as opposed to Oklahoma and/or New Mexico.
But for the longer term picture, it is becoming less important where you live in order to do business or have a job. Tele-work is making it possible to live very far away from your "place of business" if it even has a "place" at all. This should accelerate the migration to low-tax States at the expense of high-tax States
Madison and Jefferson and Franklin built a Republic - Roberts killed it!
Really, C5?
Submitted by Newsbubba on Wed, 05/30/2012 - 10:44am.
Have you ever spent a weekend in Georgia, South Carolina, or Alabama?
It would be the happiest year of your life.
As for OK, I spent a month at Tinker AFB, one night.
If you travel far enough in Florida, you get to another planet.
LOL
Submitted by c5then on Wed, 05/30/2012 - 11:18am.
Is suspect that the beaches have something to do with the appeal of both FL and TX.
Spent a week once in Charleston. Not too bad.
Spent my Freshman year in FL at "The U". Had to transfer to some place that was more "real".
Madison and Jefferson and Franklin built a Republic - Roberts killed it!
C5, they is a whole lot of
Submitted by Dan The Man 2 on Wed, 05/30/2012 - 2:57pm.
C5, they is a whole lot of Texas that aint beach. Texas has jobs and is a good place to live.
One of our great Tarheel treasures has died
Submitted by ricklail on Wed, 05/30/2012 - 10:47am.
If you don't travel in Bluegrass music circle you may have never heard of Doc Watson. He was truly a great musican.
http://www.newsobserver.com/2012/05/29/2098012/music-legend-doc-watson-d...
He was indeed, Rick.
Submitted by Newsbubba on Wed, 05/30/2012 - 11:07am.
Heaven just got a major upgrade in the "picking" department.
Like C5 said,
Submitted by GW on Wed, 05/30/2012 - 12:34pm.
Florida is a retirement destination. I wonder how many of those transplants are retirees.
and a couple of our bumper stickers:
"We don't care how you do it up north."
"If you love NY, take I-95 North."
LOL
Submitted by chiefpayne on Wed, 05/30/2012 - 2:32pm.
Ok...THAT was a good bumpersticker!
Atlas Will Shrug
Submitted by HardRightTurn on Wed, 05/30/2012 - 1:01pm.
It's natural. You can count on it.
To more fully comprehend the Left, one must read “Leftism As Psychopathy” by John Ray, M.A., Ph.D. Caution, it might scare you a little bit.
http://jonjayray.tripod.com/psycho.html
I have ONE WORD
Submitted by chiefpayne on Wed, 05/30/2012 - 2:31pm.
to say about THIS:
CARPETBAGGERS!
I DO NOT like them! They come here and try to tell US how to run OUR government when WE were getting along JUST FINE WITHOUT YOU, thank you very much!
Not to mention, they are RUDE and ARROGANT and usually just EXPECT people to DO things for them...UNLIKE we Southern people.
Oh and how they treat WOMEN is just ridiculous!
Good evening chefpayne
Submitted by cocodrie on Wed, 05/30/2012 - 2:38pm.
We get 'em here in Louisiana too but thank God most of them are just passing thru.
Whenever I go north of Bogalusa I burn my boots when I get home.
Jesus Loves You so much He died for you
Google: Happy Birthday, Peter 'Eggs' Fabergé!
Submitted by SickofLibs on Wed, 05/30/2012 - 3:50pm.
Screw Mel Blanc and Benny Goodman.
IMHO
Submitted by amyshulk on Wed, 05/30/2012 - 4:25pm.
I know when they started coming here to NV - the oped page became letters about how NV *must* do what destroyed Ca. to be "fair" blech.
Ronald Reagan
YAY!
Submitted by Rukus on Wed, 05/30/2012 - 6:50pm.
Made my 4 year NB anniversary. Now I gotta get to work and pay taxes and junk. Sigh. ; )
Good evening Rukus
Submitted by cocodrie on Wed, 05/30/2012 - 7:45pm.
Congrats - hang in there, a ----load of freeloaders and wetbacks need your taxes. I'll make my 4 years in 3 weeks.
Jesus Loves You so much He died for you
Ruk~
Submitted by GG_NB on Wed, 05/30/2012 - 7:06pm.
Happy 4 years~~~~:)
"If not us, who? If not now, when?"
~Ronald Reagan
Looks like Hugo Chavez is a couple of months away from finally..
Submitted by Dave. on Wed, 05/30/2012 - 7:26pm.
...becoming a good commie.
Imagine my distress.
-Dave
Vote for the American in November
Dave, all I can say is "Good riddance"!!
Submitted by BEGRUNT on Wed, 05/30/2012 - 7:32pm.
The sooner the earth is rid of this commie dictator scum, the better!! Lets just hope the Venezuelans use this to regain their freedom!!
"A nation can suffer it's fool's, but cannot survive the traitor"
Cicero
I am sure his successor
Submitted by Boudin on Wed, 05/30/2012 - 7:39pm.
Wont be any better. The commie elitist entity is in full effect by now.
The irony
Submitted by Radical1979 on Wed, 05/30/2012 - 9:23pm.
The only people who can afford to leave those states are the ones with money or earning money they can earn in another state, leaving the state with more leeches and fewer bodies to leech from. Yet the states refuse to face that fact and keep taxes low.
The situation in Texas is kind of funny.
Submitted by drsamherman on Wed, 05/30/2012 - 11:45pm.
All of the Californian transplants want to move to Austin because they think it is the "Seattle of the South". It's more like "Moscow on the Colorado". The tech industry around Austin is enjoying some resurgence and is growing again, but not like the 'net bubble of the late 90s.
When they arrive in Texas, they expect to see saguaro cactus, swinging saloon doors and cowboy boots in Austin. What they really run into is more California transplants, Noo Yawkers and a smattering of other high-tax state refugees and they whine about Austin not being "authentic Texas". It's a bit of a hoot to see these transplants moan and whine that they want "authentic Texas", but then they reject good barbecue in favor of arugula and mahi mahi tacos on Basmati rice flour tortillas. Uhm, that is *not* "authentic Texas". That is pretentious twit liberal.
At least most of 'em are in Austin, where the rest of Texas can keep an eye on them. Problem is they started moving to San Antonio, screwing up our politics (which already were screwed up) and they keep trying to change the nature of the state into their next Socialist utopia. Newsflash - ain't gonna happen while the rest of Texas wants to dig a moat around Austin and keep them there like "Escape from LA".
Them filthy Americans
Submitted by 4for4 on Thu, 05/31/2012 - 8:21am.
Moving into your backyard - how dare? How Dare???!!! Because you were there first, right?
Can we get the secession talks going again?
drsamherman
Submitted by amyshulk on Fri, 06/01/2012 - 4:58pm.
I had a thought that we NEED people to have morals/ethics to draw a stark contrast between those who don't, that with all the "acceptance" we've just created a situation where those who don't have to be even more shocking in their behavior to even get noticed anymore!
As to 4for4's snarky remark? I guess he/she belongs in the not category.
Ronald Reagan
We do need more positive examples.
Submitted by drsamherman on Fri, 06/01/2012 - 10:58pm.
The current amorality is evidence enough of that, but more worrisome is the effort by some very liberal psychiatrists (academics mostly) and psychologists to drop pedophilia and some other Axis I (treatment required) sexual disorders called paraphilias. Something that Cajun and I have been discussing for the past year or so on the board. It opens up a huge Pandora's Box of legal issues surrounding morals laws in general.
As to 4x4, I guess the halfwit doesn't know that I am a Latino with significant Indio (native American) blood, so some of my ancestors WERE here long before other Americans.
Exactly Drsam*
Submitted by cajun2 on Fri, 06/01/2012 - 11:07pm.
We not only need to set examples, but a louder voice. Time for the silent majority to start making noise. There is currently a push for a pro life and Religious Freedom rally scheduled for June 8th around the country. I will try to find more information on these planned rallies and report if I can.
I would also like to see millions of people out on the street making their presence known that we are a people with morals and values that we want to hold onto. It will also show that the conservatives in this country are still here and that we, as a group voice, is not wanning.
Countdown
Submitted by GG_NB on Thu, 05/31/2012 - 8:12am.
http://www.obamacounter.com/?tw_p=twt
"If not us, who? If not now, when?"
~Ronald Reagan
Gulp
Submitted by GG_NB on Thu, 05/31/2012 - 11:48am.
What is Bloomberg's problem?
"If not us, who? If not now, when?"
~Ronald Reagan