Open Thread: The Continued Collapse of the George Zimmerman Case
As time goes on, the hastily constructed second-degree murder case against George Zimmerman in the shooting death of Trayvon Martin is continuing to collapse as more evidence formerly known only by the prosecution is released to the public.
The first is that Martin seems to have been less interested in running away from Zimmerman and more in bashing him, according to a witness interviewed by police within minutes of the shooting. But that's not all:
Jim Hoft at Gateway Pundit relates the discovery of video from Trayvon Martin’s YouTube account, removed at some point during the last month, that shows he was actually involved in some sort of underground “fight club.”
Also fatal to the prosecution’s case is the discovery that Martin had THC in his system [...]
Despite the prosecution’s awareness of the autopsy reports and eyewitness testimony, they included none of it in their affidavit against Zimmerman. Criminal lawyer and Harvard Law professor Alan Dershowitz, who has been beside himself ever since the Zimmerman charges were filed, writes in the New York Daily News that it’s time to drop the charges, but doubts State Attorney Angela Corey “will do the right thing,” because “until now, her actions have been anything but ethical, lawful, and professional.”
As Dershowitz points out, the evidence released in this case means Florida’s “Stand Your Ground” law isn’t even a factor in Zimmerman’s defense. Much political hay has been made out of this law, but if Zimmerman was on the ground getting beaten to a pulp, withdrawal from the encounter was physically impossible for him. “A defendant, under Florida law, loses his ‘stand your ground’ defense if he provoked the encounter,” observes Dershowitz, “but he retains traditional self-defense if he reasonably believed his life was in danger and his only recourse was to employ deadly force.”
Does this mean Zimmerman won't be convicted of some lesser offense? Not at all. But it does indicate the media's earlier reporting which effectively smeared him as a racist murderer is starting to look more and more ridiculous.
- Matthew Sheffield's blog
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Comments
"as more evidence formerly
Submitted by MightyMouth on Tue, 05/22/2012 - 9:57am.
"as more evidence formerly known only by the prosecution is released to the public."
Well maybe the prosecution is more self serving than serving the 'people'. Could that possibly be the case in the good ole USA?
Of course not!! And the
Submitted by motherbelt on Tue, 05/22/2012 - 10:06am.
Of course not!! And the concern over racial riots if they didn't charge Zimmerman with murder had nothing to do with it either!!
\sarc off
Mike Nifong, call your office!
Robert Heinlein was right
Submitted by Free Stinker on Tue, 05/22/2012 - 10:06am.
"If a potential victim refuses his assigned role, it puts the criminal at such a disadvantage that only a sympathetic judge correct the imbalance.". Although in this case it would be a sympathetic prosecutor.
This has turned into Duke Lacrosse 2.0
/// Sarah Palin Fan since July 11, 2007 /// خال
When I think of this case the
Submitted by ricklail on Tue, 05/22/2012 - 3:23pm.
When I think of this case the DOOK lacrosse team and FORMER Durham County DA Mike Nifong come to mine. Add disbarred Nifong.
Where are the group rights advocates now?
Submitted by Unsane on Tue, 05/22/2012 - 10:09am.
Is it just me or has anyone else noticed that our usual band of guilt-ridden group rights advocates (JasonC, Dainbramage2000, etc) are nowhere to be found discussing this?
"CONSUMED DEMOCRACY RETURNS A SOCIALIST REGIME" - Slayer, "Fictional Reality", from Divine Intervention (1994)
They'll be back in a few
Submitted by Free Stinker on Tue, 05/22/2012 - 10:17am.
They'll be back in a few weeks acting as if none of this ever happened. Liberals seem to think everyone else has amnesia.
/// Sarah Palin Fan since July 11, 2007 /// خال
We'll be sure to pound them
Submitted by bretzysdude on Tue, 05/22/2012 - 12:07pm.
We'll be sure to pound them about this off-topic.
I think that for sure the
Submitted by balboa on Tue, 05/22/2012 - 10:46am.
I think that for sure the media played up the angle of the young kid being killed for no reason. Now both sides of the issue are playing up their angles to further their side. Trayvon had THC in his system, doesn't really matter, does it? Zimmerman being described as a white Hispanic is ridiculous of course.
The worst part of all this is that some young kid is dead, and I don't know if we'll ever know the truth of what happened.
A young kid? No, a troubled young man who attacked...
Submitted by AFVet on Tue, 05/22/2012 - 11:14am.
A young kid is dead? Don't you mean a 17 year old thug that attacked and assaulted a neighborhood watch volunteer is dead due to his own actions? This is not a case of a 10 year old boy that was hunted down and shot. This is a case of a troubled young man that attacked and assaulted someone and ended getting shot. Bottom line is if the 17 year old thug had not attacked and assaulted the neighborhood watch volunteer he would be alive today. Trayvon could have gone on to be suspended from school again and again for possession of burglary tools, vandalism, and drug paraphernalia, do more drugs, and attack and assault someone else. This is a very sad case, but stop acting like the 17 year old, 170 lb, 6 foot thug and troubled young man was a little kid, he was not.
We don't know if he attacked
Submitted by balboa on Tue, 05/22/2012 - 11:57am.
We don't know if he attacked Zimmerman or acted in self-defense. We don't know if Zimmerman acted in self-defense or attacked Trayon. We don't know that Trayvon was a thug.
And he was 5'11, 158 pounds.
17 to me is still a young kid. I wasn't trying to make it seem like he's a toddler.
babs, I am using the facts and evidnce we have so far.
Submitted by AFVet on Tue, 05/22/2012 - 12:59pm.
Babs, it was reported by the police that Trayvon was 6ft tall and 160lbs, it was his family that stated he was 6ft 2 or 3 inches tall and 170lbs. Zimmerman is 5 ft 9 inches tall and 170 lbs, this is being reported by the police from the night of the attack. We have eyewitnesses that have stated that Trayvon was on top of Zimmerman beating him and slamming his head in to the concrete, we have physical evidence that only shows injuries to Trayvon's knuckles and Zimmerman with a large gash in the back of his head, a broken nose, and two blackened eyes. We have 911 call from Zimmerman where he can be heard running after someone that is acting suspicious in his neighborhood, and we have a 911 operator who stated that the police did not need to follow Mr. Zimmerman to follow the suspicious person any farther, we then hear Zimmerman state 'ok' and we can hear that Zimmerman had stopped breathing so hard as he had stopped running. Then we have an altercation a minute later back near Zimmerman's' vehicle, which is where Zimmerman would have went if he had stopped following Trayvon, which by all evidence is what happened. And then we have the eyewitnesses and another 911 call where Zimmerman can be heard yelling for help as he was being assaulted by Trayvon Martin.
I am using the evidence and the facts at hand to make a decision as to what happened that night. Also, we know that Martin was a troubled young man who had been suspended from school three times in the last year for vandalism, possession of drug paraphernalia, and the last time for possession of what appeared to be a tool used for burglary and possession of women's jewelry. I am a little surprised that Trayvon's school did not call the police as a woman's home in the area had been burglarized less than a week prior and some of her jewelry had been stolen. so yes we do know that Trayvon was a thug or at least a wannabe thug. And do not forget his twitter handle, '@no_limit_n****', that is what Trayvon was calling himself. Perhaps you should try doing a little research and research some of his posts, they were truly vulgar.
Well put Vet
Submitted by Cappmann1962 on Tue, 05/22/2012 - 1:46pm.
I posted on an earlier thread virtually the same hypothesis, based on the facts available. Yet some still seem fixated on the several-years-old-pictures of poor innocent little Trayvon that the media propagated initially.
IMO, based on the evidence available, Trayvon was a punk who decided to beat on the white-looking Zimmerman for no reason other than that he figured he could get away with it, and paid for his misjudgement with his life. Unfortunately, Zimmerman, even if/when cleared of all charges, will be persecuted for the rest of his life, because of Black discrimination and media propaganda.
This case is a clear example of why criminals fear an armed or potentially armed citizen more than getting caught or prison time. If a criminal knows, or even suspects, that his potential victim is armed, 9 times out of 10 they will walk/run away rather than commit a crime. Only when they are reasonable assured that they will have a significant advantage over their victim will they proceed. This is why Florida and many other states have enacted laws such as the Castle Doctrime and Stand You Ground. Laws such as these redress the advantage to the law abiding citizen and away from the criminal.
"IMO, based on the evidence
Submitted by balboa on Tue, 05/22/2012 - 2:04pm.
"IMO, based on the evidence available, Trayvon was a punk who decided to beat on the white-looking Zimmerman for no reason other than that he figured he could get away with it."
I think "IMO" and "based on the evidence available" are conflicting statements given your conclusion. There is nothing in the evidence to suggest that Trayvon decided to beat up Zimmerman simply because he thought he could get away with it.
Not at all
Submitted by Cappmann1962 on Wed, 05/23/2012 - 11:19am.
It is my opinion, based on what evidence has been released, that poor little Trayvon, based on his prediliction for gang-banger type associations (tats, gold grills, language, etc.), fight-club history, proven drug use, probable theft/burglary, and his punk posts, that he figured he could pound on Zimmerman (who could easily be mistaken for white, especially on a rainy night) with impunity, since he was larger and younger and there was no one else around. There has been no definitive evidence to absolutely prove this, so IMO, this is what happened. The evidence available all leans towarde this conclusion, but, unlike most of the media and far too many elected officials, I clearly state that this conclusion is only my opinion, not to be construed as fact.
Does that clarify my post Bal?
Ahem...
Submitted by Vandamage2000 on Tue, 05/22/2012 - 8:06pm.
http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-05-22/news/os-george-zimmerman-...
I'm not sure why you want to bring up Trayvon's school suspensions while at the same time ignoring Zimmerman's criminal record. I'm sure it couldnt possibly be racism.
And I'm not sure why you have
Submitted by NC Cop on Tue, 05/22/2012 - 8:52pm.
And I'm not sure why you have already convicted Zimmerman when he hasn't even been to trial yet. I'm sure you hate Hispanics.
I'm not on the jury
Submitted by Vandamage2000 on Wed, 05/23/2012 - 6:44pm.
So I'm not sure why you use the word "convict.:
But great way to elevate the discussion, NC Cop. Don't answer questions or offer thoughtful analysis. Just namecall.
Dainbramage2000, a.k.a. Mr Group Rights
Submitted by Unsane on Thu, 05/24/2012 - 1:06am.
Well, well, well, our guilt-ridden group rights advocate is back.
"CONSUMED DEMOCRACY RETURNS A SOCIALIST REGIME" - Slayer, "Fictional Reality", from Divine Intervention (1994)
You don't answer questions
Submitted by NC Cop on Thu, 05/24/2012 - 1:16pm.
You don't answer questions VD, you never have. Whenever someone corners you, which is quite often, you stop responding or change the subject.
And you have NEVER offered thoughtful analysis, you just spit out democratic talking points.
Try thinking for yourself sometime, you might learn something.
Perhaps because it's pertinent
Submitted by Cappmann1962 on Thu, 05/24/2012 - 11:57am.
Poor Little Trayvon had developed a history of deliquency and violence, giving credence to Zimmerman's account.
And exactly what "criminal record" are you referring to? There's nothing in the link you provided concerning it. So I did a little research:
"George Zimmerman had had several brushes with the law and was even arrested on an occasion."
"George Zimmerman has been accused of domestic violence, tussling with a police officer and for over-speeding."
"In 2005, Zimmerman was arrested and charged with "resisting officer with violence" and "battery of law enforcement officer." Both these felonies are considered third-degree. Due to his desperate attempts, the charges were reduced to "resisting officer without violence" and then the only remaining charge was also completely waived off when he entered an alcohol education program."
Yup, sounds like a racist hardened criminal to me... Except for the "accused", "charges reduced", and "charges waived" parts... (BTW, if he had an actual criminal record, he would never have been able to acquire a concealed carry permit).
Finally, your link is to the Orlando Sentinel, which is owned by Tribune. Also owned by this parent company are other bastions of journalistic integrity such as the L.A. Times, Baltimore Sun, and the Chicago Tribune. Not the best sources of accurate news (I live in the Orlando Sentinel distribution area and have seen first-hand many of their versions of "fairness" - NOT!). Also, of at least 13 witnesses, the Sentinel shows 4 who have altered their accounts. The first - witness 2, admits she didn't have her eye correction on and couldn't identify who was who, then suddenly went from two people to one, but nothing about the fight (I find it difficult to understand one running figure beating himself up).
Witness 12, interviewed 3 weeks after the incident, saw two people, but couldn't tell who was on top. Yet six days later, she's "sure" it was Zimmerman (again, I find it hard to understand how Zimmerman sustained wounds to the back of his head if he was on top). Plus, she admits she based her "correction" on what she's seen on TV.
Witness 6, goes from "a black man on top of a lighter-skinned man just throwing down blows on the guy, MMA-style" to (3 weeks later) "he was no longer sure Trayvon was throwing punches. The teenager may have simply been keeping Zimmerman pinned to the ground". Pretty big turnaround, wouldn't you say?
And finally, witness 13, who only spoke to the fact that Zimmerman didn't behave as the witness felt he should have after shooting someone. I also don't note any change of testimony from this witness - it was thrown in to "round out" the perception the Sentinel wanted to make - that Zimmerman was the aggressor and didn't really care that he had just shot someone.
Let's get right to it. Zimmerman may have had a temper and may have been in trouble with the law SEVEN YEARS AGO. He also has a more recent history of community involvement, raised in an inter-racial household, Catholic alter boy for 10 years, partnered with a black friend to start an insurance company, became the neighborhood watch - by request of the community residents, or that the gated community had experienced a rash of burglaries perpetrated by young black males. Or does none of this have any bearing on Zimmerman's actions?
But, on the other hand, Poor Little Trayvon was, right before and as this incident was happening, involved in delinquency, drug use, probable robbery, fight club-type activities, and gang-banger symbolism (I say symbolism because I haven't heard anything definitive proving he was actually a gang member).
Cappman
Submitted by stratman on Thu, 05/24/2012 - 1:09pm.
The best eyewitness does not appear to have recanted. That witness identified a guy in a red shirt was on the bottom. That would be Zimmerman.
The altered accounts are tainted by time and human nature in the face of Media manipulation and potentially personal acquaintances or outside influences. This is why juries are sequestered.
I have also read that the resisting arrest charge occurred during the arrest of an acquaintance of Zimmerman's. Zimmerman thought the police officer was inappropriate and put his hand on the officer's arm. Stupid and worthy of being arrested and charged with battery, but not as bad as the Media would like people to imagine.
My point exactly stratman
Submitted by Cappmann1962 on Tue, 05/29/2012 - 3:51pm.
As I said, based on what evidence has been made available, I believe Zimmerman's story is the most probable. The media either tells half the story, sensationalizes any tidbit that helps their story-line, or outright lies to make Poor Little Trayvon the victim. I believe the entire incident could possibly have been avoided, but that doesn't make Zimmerman guilty of any crime. Whereas, if Poor Little Trayvon did indeed circle around and attack Zimmerman, he got what he deserved.
So, blaboa
Submitted by Blonde on Tue, 05/22/2012 - 11:52am.
You dismiss the fact that he was high....let me ask you something else, then.
How does the fact that he'd hosted "fight club" style matches....and uploaded them to YouTube, affect Trayvon's young and innocent image? To my way of thinking, he was a junior thug, training himself to be a bad-ass gangsta....an identity of his own choosing. Further factual support includes his drug use, and possible theft incidents in Miami.
Not so innocent, methinks, our young Master Trayvon, as depicted by the media and other bleeding heart liberals.
Handy Reference Guide to Obama's Gaffes and Goofs ~ Currently Numbering 200 (and Counting)
He had marijuana in his
Submitted by balboa on Tue, 05/22/2012 - 12:06pm.
He had marijuana in his system. I haven't seen anything that says he was high.
Things from his life don't portray him as a saint, for sure, and I'm not claiming he was. But it doesn't automatically mean he is at fault, just as Zimmerman's past doesn't immediately indicate he's at fault, or that he stalked Trayvon even though he somehow still encountered Trayvon despite the police telling Zimmerman they didn't need him to follow the kid.
thc
Submitted by Agnostic on Tue, 05/22/2012 - 12:27pm.
the levels in the report I read said that it was indicative of residual THC in the system and not that of someone who was currently using/high.
pretty much means nothing except more evidence that he isn't the 'Innocent' the media tried to make him out to be. Several people's lives have been effected by this event and a handful of media people and 'social justice' lawyers/Reverends have muddied the waters to the extent that no real answers will ever be ascertained to the satisfaction of the society at large. They did this, not only for ratings and money, but because they had a story that matched their narrative. When their bias towards their 'known' narrative overwhelms their values and integrity then these incidents take on all of the nuance of a steam roller going over a crystal vase. The Martin family doesn't have the money to recover like the Duke men did so hopefully they will have the type of family support that the Wurzelbacher's and the Palin's had to get them through the media onslaught.
I'm not worried abou the Martin family
Submitted by Radical1979 on Tue, 05/22/2012 - 12:52pm.
Regardless of how the trial, or what the proof is, they will be supported by the race baiters. A video could surface of Trayvon jumping Zimmerman and pounding him into the ground, and the black community would still see Trayvon as a victim.
I'm more concerned for the Martin family. I hope someone like Alan Derschowitz represents them in a civil suit against the prosecutor who brought charges, and the New Black Panthers for a start.
Radical,
Submitted by Agnostic on Tue, 05/22/2012 - 12:58pm.
my mistake - I meant to type the Martin nor Zimmerman family have the money....
Same point though. These people will be used and disposed of by people looking to support their political and social biases to the point that they throw reality, integrity and justice right out the window.
So you totally ignore the fight club thing?
Submitted by Blonde on Tue, 05/22/2012 - 12:40pm.
How about the gangsta twitter handle? Or the gold teeth?
What could he possibly have been angling for with those kind of activities.....the ballet?
Handy Reference Guide to Obama's Gaffes and Goofs ~ Currently Numbering 200 (and Counting)
I didn't ignore it. And I
Submitted by balboa on Tue, 05/22/2012 - 12:51pm.
I didn't ignore it. And I quote: "Things from his life don't portray him as a saint, for sure, and I'm not claiming he was."
It could mean he was a thug, might not mean anything. Some teens tend to act tougher than they really are. Some kids act the way they actually are.
the initial 911 call mentions it
Submitted by dmacleo on Tue, 05/22/2012 - 2:18pm.
remember the "looks like hes on drugs" (I am paraphrasing) statement zimmerman made?
Which means nothing. One, the
Submitted by balboa on Tue, 05/22/2012 - 3:44pm.
Which means nothing. One, the THC found in his system was residual, and two, what Zimmerman perceived could have been a lot of things. Is he an expert on what people look like when they're on drugs? What was it Martin was doing that led Zimmerman to think he was on drugs?
Another Instance Of Poor Reporting
Submitted by stratman on Tue, 05/22/2012 - 5:17pm.
Bal:
The Media are once again letting the public down with poor reporting. Have you read or heard the exact toxicology findings? Why should I believe paraphrasing of a reporter or even their "expert", especially in this super-charged case?
I have found one report - FOX 4 out of Kansas City, which mentions actual numbers.
Even so, the numbers are not identified properly and there is no corresponding explanation. At least FOX, the eevil corporation, reported more news than others.
Briefly, the toxicology report concerning detection of Marijuana use uses the active ingredient THC for detection in the blood and a metabolite for the urine. Simplistically, Marijuana is first detectable in the blood. THC levels fall rapidly. The metabolite is not found in the urine for one to several hours after Marijuana use depending on the individual and the sensitivity of the laboratory equipment.
Because of the metabolism and temporal effects of Marijuana, elevated samples in blood is typically a marker of impairment while detection in the urine is a marker of Marijuana use but not necessarily current impairment. More information is needed than just urine if you want to determine impairment, though it is enough to be terminated from certain forms of employment.
Returning to the actual numbers of the toxicology report - we do not know which amount is for blood and which is for urine. Hypothetically, if 1.5 ng/ml is for blood then it means Martin had smoked Marijuana at sometime unknown and was below an amount that indicates impairment. There are exceptions to this which complicate or cloud the issue, but let's start off with probable situations. If the 7.3 ng/ml number was for a blood specimen then Martin was impaired, unless he was a frequent smoker with a tolerance to the effects of Marijuana.
To complicate the issue, it is possible that Martin smoked Marijuana sometime on his way back home and was just building levels in his blood - the 1.5 ng/ml. The 7.3 ng/ml in his urine would then represent previous Marijuana use. Martin may have been paranoid about Zimmerman seeing him smoke, or just being weirded out the way illicit drug users can get when they use drugs, and that is why he responded to Zimmerman the way he did. Additionally, Martin may have been acting a little odd because he was trying to hide his Marijuana use or keep from appearing "high", and Zimmerman picked up on this behavior. It is a logical explanation for Martin's behavior.
No evidence that Zimmerman followed Martin after 911 call
Submitted by AFVet on Tue, 05/22/2012 - 3:40pm.
Babs, there is no evidence that Zimmerman did follow Trayvon after the 911 call and discussion Zimmerman had with the dispatcher. From the 911 call, the dispatcher stated that the police did not need Zimmerman to continue to follow the suspicious person that was walking between apartments and looking in windows. Zimmerman could be heard breathing hard as he had been running to see what the suspicious person, Trayvon Martin, was doing and where he was. Zimmerman stated 'OK' and you could hear he had stopped running as he breathing started to go back to normal. Then a minute later Zimmerman was attacked and assaulted, not between the apartments where he had ran to view Martin, but rather back at his vehicle. Simple logic alone makes it clear that Zimmerman had went back to his vehicle, so he could not have continued to follow Martin unless Martin was walked over to Zimmerman's vehicle and waited for him to return. Either way there is ZERO evidence that Zimmerman continued to follow Martin after the 911 call.
It is much more plausible that Trayvon decided to go after the neighborhood watch volunteer Zimmerman that had witnessed him acting suspicious and looking into others windows late at night. That is when Martin decided to attack and assault Zimmerman upon him catching up to Zimmerman back at Zimmerman's vehicle. This is much more logical and plausible with the evidence and facts at hand.
Not exactly...
Submitted by Jer on Tue, 05/22/2012 - 8:47pm.
--there is certainly evidence Zimmerman lost sight of Martin at some point prior to the altercation, but it is unclear whether Zimmerman immediately ended the pursuit after the dispatcher's "we don't need you to do that" remark.
--there is no record in the Zimmerman 911 call of his stating that Martin was "looking in windows"
--Zimmerman may have been returning to his vehicle, but the physical altercation did not take place at his vehicle. It is difficult to ascertain precisely where the verbal confrontation took place, but the fight and the shooting occurred between the rows of apartments/condos some distance away from the path which generally led in the direction back toward Zimmerman's truck.
That said, barring some surprise evidence/testimony not yet made public, it would appear the prosecution faces an uphill battle in overcoming a claim of justifiable self-defense.
Jer
Jer, do I need to repost the map and timeline again?
Submitted by bkeyser on Tue, 05/22/2012 - 9:31pm.
The incident occurred very near the path GZ likely took in looking for TM. And it's likely based on the timeline and the map that GZ was returning to his vehicle when the confrontation took place. Also, as I posted below, it was only 1 minute and 40 seconds after GZ got off the phone with the 911 dispatcher that the first 911 call was placed by a witness and GZ could be heard screaming for
help.
$20 says TM was lurking and as soon as GZ got off the phone, he attacked him.
bk...if you don't, I will..
Submitted by Jer on Tue, 05/22/2012 - 11:26pm.
because it--and by "it" I mean the website which was linked at the source you provided--designated on the property map the point at which Zimmerman ended his phone call, the path he was presumably taking which led back to his vehicle, and the spot where Martin was killed.
When you say "attacked", do you mean physically assaulted? If so, are you not aware that witnesses stated hearing two individuals arguing, and then sounds of a struggle, followed by screams for help, and then a shot?
I'm in for $20.
Jer
Yep, Jer.
Submitted by bkeyser on Wed, 05/23/2012 - 8:49pm.
"Physically attacked." I'm not sure how a witness hearing argument undermines my hypothesis, but $20 it is. Martin threw the first punch/rock/bottle/shove/whatever that became the physical altercation.
bk, the issue--and the point of the bet--is not the identity
Submitted by Jer on Wed, 05/23/2012 - 10:21pm.
of the party throwing the first punch, but the timing. You say Zimmerman was physically assaulted as soon as he finished his 911 call. I say the physical altercation was preceded by a (heated) verbal exchange.
Jer
I'm saying TM waited for GZ to get off the phone
Submitted by bkeyser on Thu, 05/24/2012 - 6:41am.
then instigated the physical altercation. The fact that there was so little time between the end of the 911 call to the gunshot makes a heated argument either lightning quick or part of the physical altercation. As you yourself indicated, that was only 1 minute, 20 seconds in elapsed time. And in that time Martin found his way on top of Zimmerman, was able to smash his head into the sidewalk and break his nose, before Zimmerman was able to reach into a holster, remove his weapon, and fire. You want to put your money on a heated argument that took place before all of that happened, fine with me. You can make the check out to Bob Keyser.
Slight correction, bk...
Submitted by Jer on Thu, 05/24/2012 - 8:37am.
According to your linked timeline, the fatal shot was fired approximately two minutes after the conclusion of Zimmerman's 911 call.
Btw, I accept Visa, MC, AMEX and PayPal.
Jer
Fine. Two minutes.
Submitted by bkeyser on Thu, 05/24/2012 - 8:48am.
Ever been in a fight Jer? Ever been approached by someone you don't know and ended up in a physical confrontation in which both you and he ended up pounding on each other?
Hang your hat on two minutes. It's a $20 hat.
Well, yes...
Submitted by Jer on Fri, 05/25/2012 - 3:41pm.
My sister. And I thought I knew her, but evidently I didn't really.
Jer
Who won?
Submitted by bkeyser on Fri, 05/25/2012 - 3:50pm.
.
~Depends on which one you ask
Submitted by Wrathful Brunette on Fri, 05/25/2012 - 4:58pm.
and how you define 'won'......
Jer
Submitted by stratman on Fri, 05/25/2012 - 4:18pm.
Your sister sounds A-OK.
And how old were you two?
Submitted by GG_NB on Fri, 05/25/2012 - 4:23pm.
.
"If not us, who? If not now, when?"
~Ronald Reagan
High, you say?
Submitted by Vandamage2000 on Tue, 05/22/2012 - 8:07pm.
How does being high make you deserve to get shot?
Yes of course it does.
Submitted by Radical1979 on Tue, 05/22/2012 - 8:12pm.
We shoot everyone who gets high.
I guess mom gave you your computer back.
Don't bother responding to my points
Submitted by Vandamage2000 on Tue, 05/22/2012 - 8:23pm.
Just make vague insults that don't advance the conversation.
Why do you keep talking about his drug use? What does it have to do with anything?
You commented on it
Submitted by cocodrie on Tue, 05/22/2012 - 8:32pm.
You commented on it with a senseless juvenile remark. Your status as an immature moron is an insult to your mom.
Jesus Loves You so much He died for you
He was beating the crap
Submitted by Boudin on Tue, 05/22/2012 - 8:43pm.
Out of a guy walking on the same sidewalk. Come down here and give that a try.
You want serious?
Submitted by Radical1979 on Tue, 05/22/2012 - 8:46pm.
Don't be such a smart a$$. The use of illegal drugs indicates a proclivity for unlawful behavior, and may go to state of mind.
Besides,
Submitted by Boudin on Tue, 05/22/2012 - 9:02pm.
He was wearing a hoody,,,,,, just like my Son. Who in the dark "looks like Trevon" in a Hoody?
How about an arrest for assaulting an officer?
Submitted by Vandamage2000 on Thu, 05/24/2012 - 12:45pm.
That do anything for you?
What the frell
Submitted by Rukus on Fri, 05/25/2012 - 10:51pm.
are you talking about? Oh yeah, you're an lefty appologist! QED!
How about sexually assaulting a chicken?
Submitted by The Vet on Fri, 05/25/2012 - 12:22am.
Vandamage2000 was arrested for sexually assaulting a chicking in 2004. No conviction. The charges mysteriously reduced to consorting with a chicken not his own.
George Zimmerman was not convicted of assaulting an officer. The charges were reduced or dropped.
In your case we would consider it
Submitted by cocodrie on Tue, 05/22/2012 - 8:18pm.
In your case we would consider it
Jesus Loves You so much He died for you
Hey porn star....how stupid do YOU have to be
Submitted by Blonde on Tue, 05/22/2012 - 10:53pm.
....to get banned?
You haven't been missed around here.
Handy Reference Guide to Obama's Gaffes and Goofs ~ Currently Numbering 200 (and Counting)
Right
Submitted by Vandamage2000 on Wed, 05/23/2012 - 6:51pm.
Then when I don't post, you guys say that Im left speechless. Stop bringing me up if you don't want me to comment.
Kindly point that out, Porn Star
Submitted by Blonde on Wed, 05/23/2012 - 8:41pm.
.....where I brought you up. BTW, if I were to bring you up, would you stop posting?
I couldn't care less about your posts. They're useless, whiny, and add less than zero to any discussion. But people here seem to enjoy verbally thrashing you, so I suppose you serve some small purpose.
Handy Reference Guide to Obama's Gaffes and Goofs ~ Currently Numbering 200 (and Counting)
Blonde ---
Submitted by matthewdean on Wed, 05/23/2012 - 8:46pm.
"But people here seem to enjoy verbally thrashing you ---."
Indeed. :o)
MD
Ah yes, MD
Submitted by Blonde on Wed, 05/23/2012 - 8:55pm.
As my friend the neurologist/psychiatrist Dr. Sam will confirm, troll bashing is a very cheap and efficacious form of therapy for what annoys the conservative soul.
Handy Reference Guide to Obama's Gaffes and Goofs ~ Currently Numbering 200 (and Counting)
And it's ever so fun...
Submitted by drsamherman on Thu, 05/24/2012 - 5:17pm.
Cheaper than visiting me, even with a low copay.
I wonder Dr. Sam
Submitted by Rukus on Thu, 05/24/2012 - 8:04pm.
At what point does this crap stop (or go on). Perplexes me. Is this guy/gal/whatever just wanting attention or what? PC gone amuck as far as I can see.
This one is completely random, Ruk.
Submitted by drsamherman on Fri, 05/25/2012 - 5:04pm.
Van's posts run from the terse questions of the "stopped beating your wife yet" type to longer-winded narratives. The tone runs from neutral to attack without rationality.
If I had to surmise what Van's true character is, I would take a hint from some conversation I had with another esteemed member of our board and say Van is much like Obama's girlfriend(s)--a composite. The evidence points to more than one person posting under the name, and more than likely the tenor and length of the posts reflect whoever is using the posting identification at that time. We know that Van's personalities are all liberal and all are rather outrageous defenses of points that have been refuted strenuously, but the constant poking nature of the posts is something akin to what a sociopathic child would do to animals to express its frustration with the world not being the way it wanted it to be. The structure of the language, and the rather amateurish psychology they try to use suggest an academic environment for the "Van" composite identity.
I must note that Van also seems rather obsessed with superficialities, something which definitely I find inconsistent with the depth and vigor that it often uses in composing deliberately argumentative posts. Of course, the inconsistent nature of the strength of these arguments is also supportive of a composite identification, unless Vandamage is indeed a single person who needs to seek treatment for such childish emotional lability.
Mr. Group Rights:
Submitted by Unsane on Thu, 05/24/2012 - 1:08am.
Why do you think that not a single law on the books applied to Mr. Martin?
"CONSUMED DEMOCRACY RETURNS A SOCIALIST REGIME" - Slayer, "Fictional Reality", from Divine Intervention (1994)
Just another example...
Submitted by richflanj on Tue, 05/22/2012 - 10:11am.
Of the media establishing the template, and then attempting to make the story fit their liberal belief system, with the usual results.
"White Hispanic", the "innocent youth photo", the doctored photos of Zimmerman's injuries, etc., have all gone to do nothing more than further discredit the MSM (if that is possible).
In reality, Zimmerman probably should have been charged with involuntary manslaughter. The police and the prosecutor, however, allowed the race baiters and their accomplices in the media to dictate the investigation.
Now, they are trapped into prosecuting a pooly investigated case, in which their is a slim chance of obtaining an unbiased jury, and with the usual worms (Sharpton, Jackson, etc.) sitting on the courthouse steps screaming about "no justice, no peace".
Enjoy the circus.
why?
Submitted by dmacleo on Tue, 05/22/2012 - 10:35am.
you say Zimmerman probably should have been charged with involuntary manslaughter.
are we to always assume that every person that shoots someone is automatically guilty?
I say we ought to remove a lot of these laws, when people (all inclusive not color related) are afraid of being killed maybe they will stop assaulting people. level of force laws just protect the aggressor.
I'm not saying he's guilty.
Submitted by richflanj on Tue, 05/22/2012 - 11:33am.
I am saying that the charge that best fits the circumstances is the manslaughter charge. You cannot discount or dismiss the dispatcher advising Zimmerman to not follow Martin, no good prosecutor would.
Not charging him with anything was an impossibility, given the climate and the events that occured.
All I am saying is that, based upon the apparent absence of premeditation, a murder charge is excessive and not likely to be successfully prosecuted. The jury (if they can find one) will have to take into account ALL of the elements of that ugly evening.
Sorry, but your first
Submitted by G L on Tue, 05/22/2012 - 1:06pm.
Sorry, but your first paragraph position doesn't reconcile with known facts. All you have to do is see a map of the area in which this happened and listen to Zimmerman's 911 call, and it becomes pretty clear that all Trayvon had to do to avoid Zimmerman was walk to his father's girlfriend's house, where he was staying. Martin's family and their lawyers, the source of almost all the blatant lies and misinformation in this story, claim Martin was afraid. Apparently, not afraid enough to simply go home.
Zimmerman was not running to catch Martin - you can tell by the tape that he stopped as soon as the 911 operator told him not to follow Martin. And there certainly isn't enough distance for a pudgy short guy to catch a six foot, seventeen year old thug, while walking.
The only way the two of them could have had the confrontation they did in the location they did at the time after the call they did, was if Trayvon either stopped and waited, or turned around and went back to confront Zimmerman.
Go back and check the map, the call tapes, and the time line yourself.
and again, why?
Submitted by dmacleo on Tue, 05/22/2012 - 1:48pm.
why is a manslaughter charge the best charge?
first, a dispatcher has no authority BUT you can tell by breathing (as mentioned below) he stopped.
second, not charging him surely was a possibility. in fact with what we now know it probably would have been the most accurate route to go.
people assume there always need to be a charge when someone is killed, and its wrong. granted its kind of the norm now but thats due to people always wanting to blame someone.
kowtowing to race baiters by utilizing the justice system for social justice is a travesty.
trademarking your dead sons name after known race hustlers interfere is plain awful.
http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-TV/2012/05/21/Trayvons-Mother-Introdu...
I have a bunch of articles collected up here, been trying to keep them up to date, but they show the story.
http://www.davemacleod.net/forums/tags/forums/zimmerman/
Yes, in Dreamland, Zimmerman
Submitted by richflanj on Tue, 05/22/2012 - 3:29pm.
Yes, in Dreamland, Zimmerman would never have been charged with anything. Prosecuting Zimmerman at all is an obvious bow to the "racism" industry.
But, from the first mention of "white hispanic", there was no possible way Zimmerman was not going to be arrested and prosecuted. That is the reality of the racial politics surrounding this prosecution.
I am saying that (in my opinion) there is no possible way they can get a murder conviction. The details to not fit. In trying to prosecute him for murder, the prosecution (no doubt due to political and media pressure) went way to far. The only (slim) chance they had was to try for a manslaughter charge.
Could Zimmerman have broken off his "surveillance" and avoided Martin altogether? I think so.
Is there a dispatcher advising him to stop the "sureveillance"? Yes. Authority or not, the prosecution will try to argue that Zimmerman was acting in a manner to encourage a confrontation, against the recommendation of a public safety official. That, to me, does not support a charge of murder. Poor judgement, maybe, but premeditation, no.
Was it self-defense? I think so, but I also think that Zimmerman could have walked away after calling the police, and (in so doing) not gotten into the physical confrontation in the first place.
Could the arguement be made to a jury that the incident could have been avoided if Zimmerman had not followed Martin? I think so, and I believe it will be made by the prosecution. But in no way does any evidence support a murder charge.
The defense will argue (and I think successfully) that how it came to be a physical confrontation does not matter. Once the fight started, Martin had Zimmerman in a position where he could not retreat, that Zimmerman was in fear for his life, and that Martin was attempting to kill him. For that, the physical evidence will back Zimmerman.
Remember the context,
Submitted by bkeyser on Tue, 05/22/2012 - 10:23pm.
The last time Zimmerman called 911 in the performance of his Watch duties, he did so under similar circumstances: a suspicious person. And he did exactly what they advised him to do; remain in place until police arrived. That subject got away. I'm sure he was tired of the crime in his neighborhood and tired of being there, "on duty" and unable to make a real difference given the time required for police to arrive on scene after a call.
On top of that, the dispatcher advised GZ not to follow for GZ's safety, not Martin's. Martin was an unknown, the dispatcher was talking to GZ. So when GZ followed, he was, as he implies, trying o keep an eye on Martin so that he could point police in the right direction. I'd be surprised if GZ had any intention of having a face-to-face with Martin; and I'll bet he was quite surprised when it materialized.
And that, I think is where people are assuming motive that likely didn't exist. In following Martin, GZ did absolutely nothing wrong. And doing so did not mean he was intent on making contact.
Of course, Rich
Submitted by Vandamage2000 on Thu, 05/24/2012 - 12:50pm.
Al Sharpton and MSNBC choose who gets arrested in this country. Not the Government. Sharpton and the race baiters are an irrelevant bunch, who have no power and influence, except to arrest guys like Zimmerman.
But you bring up a great point. You say it doesn't matter how the fight started. Are you suggesting that a man can approach a man and engage him in a fight, and when he's losing the fight, just go ahead and shoot him?
➚ Van Idiot
Submitted by Cool Arrow on Thu, 05/24/2012 - 1:14pm.
If he wasn't arrested, tell me why he was taken to the police station in handcuffs?
You're lying about him not being arrested.
You're just butt-hurt that he wasn't charged.
Get your facts straight.
And you go on about how would the cops know this that or the other about Zimmerman?
You really think a man (Zimmerman) who had called the precinct 45 times previous to this incident would indeed be well-known to the cops.
Stop being an idiot. If such is within the realm of your biased mindset.
Not charging him was an impossibility?
Submitted by UpNorth on Tue, 05/22/2012 - 10:10pm.
So, to placate a certain segment of the community, charges must be filed, even though one of two laws, either Stand Your Ground, or Self Defense/Justifiable Homicide are probably operative here?
As to the conversation with the dispatcher, is there any proof that Zimmerman had not complied and stopped following Martin once he was told that he didn't need to do that? Is there any proof that Zimmerman wasn't just looking for an address, to advise the police of his location?
So, to placate a certain...
Submitted by richflanj on Wed, 05/23/2012 - 8:36am.
Yes. Welcome to the world of racial politics.
Interesting quote
Submitted by Vandamage2000 on Tue, 05/22/2012 - 8:10pm.
"
are we to always assume that every person that shoots someone is automatically guilty?"
No one is assuming anything. He's getting a trial.
You have assumed from your first post,
Submitted by UpNorth on Tue, 05/22/2012 - 10:40pm.
that Zimmerman committed a crime, you wanted him arrested immediately. You've assumed that Z had a racial animus toward Martin, and every "black teen" from the beginning.
You failed to avail yourself of the wording of the applicable statutes in the case, to further your own "feelings" of what happened and what should happen from then on. You had no interest in the applicable laws, because it ran counter to your "feelings".
So, kindly get off the "no one is assuming anything" kick.
Most xlnt ---
Submitted by matthewdean on Tue, 05/22/2012 - 11:50pm.
reply.
What a shame that the fool it was addressed to has no cognitive ability.
MD
The context of my reply
Submitted by Vandamage2000 on Wed, 05/23/2012 - 7:32pm.
is that no one is assuming guilt.
I did want Zimmerman arrested immediately. He shot someone that was unarmed, and was known to have, at least initially, chased after Martin. Even the Gov that signed the Stand Your Ground Law that is being used by Zimmerman, was stating that Zimmerman should be arrested. But you keep insisting that I am motivated by feelings, because you don't want to address the fact that Jeb Bush does not agree with you.
Furthermore, absolutely no one has been able to explain why Zimmerman called police on Martin and followed him, other than for simply being black. Martin was not committing a crime.
Is anyone home in there van?
Submitted by Radical1979 on Wed, 05/23/2012 - 7:39pm.
I know this has been posted before, but here goes. During the 911 Zimmerman, when asked, didn't immediately identify Martin as black, he didn't know his race for sure. Martin, in Zimmerman's words, was acting suspiciously. No, I don't know at this point what Zimmerman thought was suspicious, but I'm sure the police do. Being black wasn't part of the equation.
He is not know to have "chased after" Martin. He stopped when advised to by the 911 operator. Get a clue.
You dont know what Zimmerman thought was suspicious
Submitted by Vandamage2000 on Wed, 05/23/2012 - 8:19pm.
but you're sure the police know? What does that mean?
What do the police know about Zimmerman's mindset? Only Zimmerman knows what was so scary about Martin, and he won't share it.
He told the dispatcher he was following Martin. These a--holes always get away....
How do you know he stopped? Were you there?
And once again, you're missing context. Zimmerman said, "he looks black."
Not "He is black." But, "He looks black." How does that clear up racism? He observed a man that looked black and called the police. How does that make Zimmerman the second coming of MLK, again?
Geeze, look who's back.
Submitted by bkeyser on Wed, 05/23/2012 - 8:33pm.
I thought you would have smartened up some since the last go-round. You're still spouting the same old "racism" talking points.
Zimmerman looked suspicious because he fit the same description as any number of other actual criminals in the area. Plain and simple. Want to blame skin color? Blame the blacks who'd been breaking into houses there.
It's inconceivable that this point still escapes you. It's as if you agree with the TSA strip-searching grandma and the 4 year old in the wheelchair. Which, actually, flies in the face of your "he wasn't doing anything wrong so he shouldn't have been bothered" mantra. What you're suggesting is that either everyone unknown in the neighborhood should be reported to police or no one should. And both are equally stupid.
Want to blame skin color?
Submitted by Vandamage2000 on Wed, 05/23/2012 - 8:56pm.
You are blaming skin color. Plain and simple.
Sorry Porn Star, that's your trick
Submitted by Blonde on Wed, 05/23/2012 - 9:09pm.
Placing blame due to skin color. You were one of the original members of the lynch mob, back before ANY facts were available, who was calling for Zimmerman's head on a platter.
Well, now it appears that the evidence supports Zimmerman's account.....my oh my!
So you and the rest of the lynch mob want him tried anyway, even though the case doesn't stand up to even a charge of Murder in the 2nd degree.
Zimmerman's going to walk, you may as well resign yourself to that now.
Handy Reference Guide to Obama's Gaffes and Goofs ~ Currently Numbering 200 (and Counting)
Any facts?
Submitted by Vandamage2000 on Wed, 05/23/2012 - 10:59pm.
Like the fact that Zimmerman shot Martin. Thats not a fact?
you think the state of Florida is a lynch mob?
Blonde, think before you post.
What are you babbling
Submitted by NC Cop on Wed, 05/23/2012 - 11:05pm.
What are you babbling about??
Did Blonde deny that Zimmerman shot Martin????
The ENTIRE state of Florida now wants Zimmerman tried and imprisoned??
Are you high????
The State of Florida is trying Zimmerman
Submitted by Vandamage2000 on Thu, 05/24/2012 - 12:34am.
It's a criminal trial.
Blonde is saying there are no facts or evidence to try Zimmerman. Thats simply false. There might not be evidence to convict. But to suggest there is no evidence to arrest Zimmerman or try him is willfully ignorant.
Still Reading Impaired, I See, Porn Star
Submitted by Blonde on Thu, 05/24/2012 - 11:26am.
What I said was that the evidence supports Zimmerman's account, not your pie-in-the-sky fabrication of a racist shooting of a dear, sweet little child.
So keep on hanging with the lynch mob, Porn Star. You're going to be very, very disappointed.
Tell me, how are you going to feel when Mr. Zimmerman is acquitted, and then gunned down by your lynch mob in cold blood screaming "For Trayvon"? Are you going to cry crocodile tears and shout "racism!!!" then?
Handy Reference Guide to Obama's Gaffes and Goofs ~ Currently Numbering 200 (and Counting)
Which evidence?
Submitted by Vandamage2000 on Thu, 05/24/2012 - 12:34pm.
The witnesses who changed thier story?
Just because Zimmerman got his ass beat doesn't mean he didn't start the fight. But I guess you just believe everything Zimmerman says,because you are rooting for the MSM to eat it.
Keep smearing me, Blonde.
If Zimmerman is found guilty, you will blame the MSM and Sharpton, because you can't bring yourself to believe Zimmerman did something wrong.
She's not smearing you.
Submitted by NC Cop on Thu, 05/24/2012 - 12:43pm.
You're exposing yourself as the clueless wonder every step of the way.
Do you have evidence that Zimmerman started the fight? I guess you just believe the opposite of everything that Zimmerman says because you hate Hispanic people. Isn't that how it works.
If Zimmerman is found not guilty you will blame the right wing conspiracy and a racist justice system because you can't bring yourself to believe that Martin did something wrong.
See how easy that is?
You're smearing yourself, Porn Star
Submitted by Blonde on Thu, 05/24/2012 - 1:19pm.
Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah! Stop SMEARING ME Blonde!
Your whining is pathetic.
He's not going to be found guilty, any more than Casey Anthony was. Because the evidence doesn't rise to the level of conviction, particularly insomuch as he was overcharged w/Murder 2.....no matter how hard you hope it will.
He might have been convicted with on Involuntary Manslaughter indictment. Go do your own homework, and see what the State must prove for you to get the verdict you lust after, Lynchmo. It's never going to happen.
Now whine some more for me.
Handy Reference Guide to Obama's Gaffes and Goofs ~ Currently Numbering 200 (and Counting)
Yes, a criminal trial forced
Submitted by NC Cop on Thu, 05/24/2012 - 11:44am.
Yes, a criminal trial forced upon the state of Florida by a gang of race baiting liars and thugs. Spare me. The D.A. had decided not to prosecute Zimmerman until Sharpton and his gang stirred up hate and anger, which he has made a good living at. Then a "special prosecutor" comes in and decideds to charge him with 2nd degree murder, a charge at which many legal experts agree is ridiculous.
In all of your race baiting, VanDamage, you failed to consider what would have happened had Zimmerman been black. What if a black man, with wounds all over his head supporting his story that he had been attacked, shot someone in what he said was self defense. After an investigation clears Zimmerman a "special prosecutor" is appointed who decides to charge him.
Your band of cronies would be screaming "racism" because they had decided to charge Zimmerman.
This is nothing but a show trial. A desperate attempt to delay the violence that Florida fears will happen if Zimmerman walks away. All they did was push it back a few months.
race baiters aren't alone
Submitted by Agnostic on Thu, 05/24/2012 - 11:59am.
without media distortion, nationwide coverage and shaping the story to fit a narrative the the race baiters would not have had the spot light and story line they need in order to serve injustice.
EXACTLY!!!
Submitted by NC Cop on Thu, 05/24/2012 - 12:41pm.
EXACTLY!!!
➚ Don't be an idiot, you idiot
Submitted by Cool Arrow on Wed, 05/23/2012 - 11:22pm.
How is it you believe the charges can't be dropped without Florida being a lynch mob if you haven't already decided guilt.
You really are tying yourself into knots over this, and you continue to finish with your head firmly planted in your arse.
So just to be clear:
Submitted by bkeyser on Wed, 05/23/2012 - 9:59pm.
You believe that GZ reported TM only because of his skin color, correct?
A) Yes
B) No
And you also believe that the number of break-ins by young black men should have given him no pause when he saw an unidentifiable young (probably) black male, correct?
A) Yes
B) No
[Edited for clarity.]
Yea
Submitted by Vandamage2000 on Wed, 05/23/2012 - 10:58pm.
A. Yes . And you have defended it.
as for your second question.
A. Yes
That is racial profiling. Also known as racism.
I was attacked by a white man at a concert last summer (Yea, I am white).
Should I fear all white men at concerts from now on? Of course not. But you seem to think such fear and alarm is rational.
Jeez, VenerealDope - you seem
Submitted by killa37 on Wed, 05/23/2012 - 11:21pm.
Jeez, VenerealDope - you seem to have the type of personality that is conducive to being atttacked - verbally or physically - and you can't even use 'racism' as an excuse for it!!!
I'm looking for my like button, Killa.
Submitted by UpNorth on Thu, 05/24/2012 - 12:22am.
.
Okay, Van.
Submitted by bkeyser on Wed, 05/23/2012 - 11:43pm.
Would you say then that the old "police sketch artists" were either ineffective or some sort of civil rights violation?
A) Yes
B) No
(I'm not trying to be condescending with the Yes/No thing. It's just that too often questions are asked and not answered in conversations like this. We conversed about this before and I thought it was a fair and equitable discussion even though we disagree. I'll keep it that way provided you stay on topic and answer any questions. And I'll reciprocate.)
Continuing...
In a combat situation, if you're presented with a potential target in your scope but can only make that determination by the subject's uniform which matches those known to be worn by the enemy, do you consider them foe and take aim or do you wait to see if they shoot at you first?
A) Shoot
B) Wait until shot at
As far as what Zimmerman did in reporting Martin: that was his job as the Neighborhood Watch captain. Sure, it was a volunteer position, but if the community did not want him reporting suspicious persons, they wouldn't have a neighborhood watch. And, had Martin either simply continued his trek to his temporary home, or waited a few moments for police to arrive, this entire episode would have passed without incident. He could have identified himself as a visitor to police, Zimmerman could have introduced himself as NW, and my guess is, he probably would have apologized for the inconvenience, and they both would have continued on with their lives. Instead, Martin chose to confront Zimmerman and the episode took a tragic turn.
How do I know this? Because there's no way Zimmerman could have caught Martin on foot. And there's no way Martin could not have made it to his temporary residence in the time since he first took off running to the time the incident occurred. It wasn't that far and he certainly wasn't physically incapable of outrunning Zimmerman who was at least 8-10 seconds behind him. That's about 70 yards for an average runner. It couldn't have been much further than that from where Zimmerman saw Martin begin running to Martin's temporary home.
Sketch Artists and Uniforms - Irrelevant to this case
Submitted by Vandamage2000 on Thu, 05/24/2012 - 12:38am.
Again, BK, you are saying Martin is a suspicious person. Why? Because he's black?
You dont know who confronted who. Stop pretending you were there.
Maybe Martin was standing his ground against Zimmerman. Did you think of that?
'Stop pretending you were
Submitted by killa37 on Thu, 05/24/2012 - 12:50am.
'Stop pretending you were there'??? Wo wo wo wo wo, Vacuous Dummy................THIS, coming from YOU????? This case, and this subject, are the ONLY reason you're here on NB - and apparantly you got booted for a while too - and you've been beating the same song and dance from day one on this - without knowing any MORE, or any LESS, than anybody else. Fact of the matter is - you don't know a damn thing more about it that everybody else allready knows...................yet you continue to argue and bitch and moan and whine and complain - much to the irritation and aggravation of just about everyone in here - including some other fellow travelers - without coming up with anything that is going to matter when this is all said and done.
Why don't you give it a rest, and try another topic...................let's see how good you are on the next one.
I already said why Martin was suspicious
Submitted by bkeyser on Thu, 05/24/2012 - 8:46am.
which is why I asked the two most recent questions.
Now, looking at it from a law enforcement perspective:
If you're a police officer patrolling the neighborhood, you're looking for young black males. A sketch artist, if available would have produced a sketch of a young black male. If someone was picked up on suspicion of a home invasion, and a line up was conducted for a potential witness, everyone in it would be a young black male. Probably all in hoodies. A white woman in a wedding dress would be ridiculous and would prejudice the line up.
Martin was suspisious precisely because Zimmerman, who lived in the area and was tasked with patrolling it in the form of a neighborhood watch, saw a person unknown to him who fit the description put forth by law enforcement of unknown persons committing crimes in said neighborhood. I don't know how to make this any more clear. It wasn't white nuns robbing homes there. It wasn't black women or white toddlers. But it always included young black males. This is how you catch criminals at large, you look for, and question those who fit the description of reported crimes.
This isn't rocket science; it's pretty basic police work. Like, Day 1 stuff.
In Martin's case, he would have been interviewed by Police, it would have been determined that he lived elsewhere and had just recently arrived for a visit, and he would have been eliminated as a suspect.
But that didn't happen because within 2 minutes after Zimmerman got off the phone with 911, Martin had managed to break his nose, beat his head into the sidewalk, and take a bullet in the chest. Sheesh.
And "Stand Your Ground" likely won't be used by the defense; self defense will. Stand Your Ground was promoted by leftists who want the law overturned.
[Edited because math is hard.]
Really?
Submitted by Vandamage2000 on Thu, 05/24/2012 - 12:39pm.
Did a crime take place that day?
Was someones home broken into that day, and a black male was escaping that crime scene?
Your analysis of Martin as criminal doesn't add up. Zimmerman was not persuing a crime suspect, because no crime was committed.
So if there was an APB for a middle aged white men who were robbing homes in an area, you would call officers on the scene every time you found a middle aged white man in the area? That would be a terrible use of resources, BK.
You know better.
Helps, doesn't it, VD, to completely ignore ---
Submitted by matthewdean on Thu, 05/24/2012 - 5:39pm.
the facts, common sense, and the actual story line reference the Zimmerman/Martin case?
The most obvious revelation of all, of course, is that you will stick with your nonsensical BS despite your arguments having been shot down, beat up, and defenestrated after being shown as nothing more than silly liberal white guilt.
One of the most glaring points about your oblivious, yet stubborn, hard-headed, liberal stupidity, is that you continue to misspell the word "pursue".
Not necessarily a game-breaker; but continuing to do so after it was pointed out to you, is definitely a sign that remaining obtuse is far more important to you than being correct.
You raise the meaning of the word putz to astronomically new heights, and that is in no way a compliment.
MD
Van, you're...
Submitted by bkeyser on Thu, 05/24/2012 - 5:41pm.
...hell, I don't even know what. You cannot possibly be that naive. Please tell me you're just so entrenched in this as a racial issue that you're willing to disregard all logic for the cause.
By your logic, if a crime has been committed and a suspect wasn't been apprehended during the commission of the crime, he is no longer a suspect. No one can be apprehended unless during the actual commission of the crime. That's ludicrous. You realize that, right? This can't possibly escape your comprehension.
If an APB or BOLO (Be On the Lookout, duh) were issued for a middle aged white male who had been seen breaking into a home in the Retreat at Twin Lakes, then any unknown middle aged white male walking through the community would be a suspect. (Or, if a spate of break-ins had been committed in the Retreat at Twin Lakes was perpetrated by several black males, then any unknown black male would be a suspect.) If there was further information such as age, height, weight, hair color or style, then someone could potentially be eliminated based on those characteristics. Yes, police would want you to call them if you saw someone fitting the description.
That's what police resources are there for; to investigate crime. Sometimes the investigation clears someone too, you know.
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bk, the fact that VD is ---
Submitted by matthewdean on Thu, 05/24/2012 - 5:46pm.
hapless, hopeless, and helpless aside ---
Great face palm rendering.
MD
OMO, BK! A Jean-Luc Picard Face Palm
Submitted by Blonde on Thu, 05/24/2012 - 5:48pm.
You, fella, just made my day!
Handy Reference Guide to Obama's Gaffes and Goofs ~ Currently Numbering 200 (and Counting)
Thanks md and J
Submitted by bkeyser on Thu, 05/24/2012 - 6:26pm.
but I copied and pasted it! LOL. I don't have time to do that kind of drawing anymore!
Google: facepalm text
Whoa, BK!
Submitted by GG_NB on Fri, 05/25/2012 - 11:56am.
Great! Your argument and the face (even if you copied the face).
"If not us, who? If not now, when?"
~Ronald Reagan
bk...more thoughts on Martin/Zimmerman
Submitted by Jer on Thu, 05/24/2012 - 8:23pm.
As far as what Zimmerman did in reporting Martin: that was his job as the Neighborhood Watch captain. Sure, it was a volunteer position, but if the community did not want him reporting suspicious persons, they wouldn't have a neighborhood watch. And, had Martin either simply continued his trek to his temporary home, or waited a few moments for police to arrive, this entire episode would have passed without incident. He could have identified himself as a visitor to police, Zimmerman could have introduced himself as NW, and my guess is, he probably would have apologized for the inconvenience, and they both would have continued on with their lives. Instead, Martin chose to confront Zimmerman and the episode took a tragic turn.
Yes, it can be fairly said to be part of Zimmerman's job, although it is questionable whether carrying a Kel-Tec 9mm in the course of his duties would have been expected or welcomed by the majority of residents, and it was clearly not endorsed by law enforcement any more than was chasing suspicious characters through the subdivision. [In fact, it reportedly contravened watch guidelines although the manual which I reviewed contained no such prohibition.]
Martin could have waited on the police. But that presumes he knew the police were in route, and in all likelihood he was completely unaware they had even been notified--much less that they were due any moment.
Let's look further at the known and probable circumstances from Martin's perspective: While returning to the address where he was temporarily residing, a stranger in an unmarked truck begins scrutinizing him, monitoring his movements, staring at him, and continues this odd and intimidating behavior while making a phone call, then subsequently exits the vehicle and begins to trail and pursue him. The stranger is un-uniformed and never identifies himself. I think anyone in Martin's position would feel menaced, threatened--even endangered. Martin has no duty to continue to his residence, knowing that someone in the neighborhood is apparently targeting him for some unfathomable reason. Indeed, he had every right to confront Zimmerman and demand an explanation. The reaction is neither unreasonable nor unforeseeable.
That said, a reasonable response clearly does not include an unprovoked physical assault. But the details--including the exact sequence of events and nature of the confrontation--remain murky during this relatively brief but critically important time period. And that is so even granting the preponderance of evidence indicating Martin ended up on top of, pummeling, Zimmerman. Although not the most likely scenario, it is at least possible Zimmerman, shortly after being confronted, unholstered his weapon, displayed it to Martin who then reflexively adjudged that the best means of protecting himself was to go "MMA" on the individual posing the threat. [Zimmerman although by most accounts is normally passive, soft-spoken and mild-mannered does have a record of uncharacteristic but sporadic aggression.) And even though Martin gained the upper hand, it was insufficient to keep Zimmerman from squeezing off a fatal round to he heart. Thus in hindsight, though getting physical might not have been the most prudent response by Martin, in the split-second reality for decision-making under extraordinarily exigent circumstances, such reaction shouldn't be summarily dismissed on the grounds of incomprehensibility. Let me reiterate, however, the foregoing presupposes a theoretical scenario which, to my knowledge, hasn't been excluded by the evidence but is nevertheless not the most probable occurrence given the information made public thus far. [By the way, here is the property schematic: Note the alleged position of Zimmerman as he concluded the 911 call, the path leading back to, and the location of, his vehicle; and the spot--at a minimum several yards from the path--of the final struggle.]
Returning to your suggestion of how Martin could have avoided the ultimate consequences, the point is begged that Zimmerman could also have likely averted the tragedy by simply making himself known as the neighborhood watch captain and asking Martin where he lived, what he was doing on the property, etc. Yes, it is recommended that civilians should generally not approach or confront suspicious individuals, but Martin was alone, he was not threatening anyone, he was not brandishing a weapon, he was not carrying a TV on his back, he was not sneaking up to homeowners' windows and peering inside them--he was not actively engaged in any criminal behavior whatsoever. Zimmerman was safely ensconced inside of a truck with a loaded firearm and a cell phone. I think whatever risks may have attended his driving by and calmly directing a couple of queries to Martin were far outweighed by the hazards associated with his subsequent actions. And those questions and Martin's answers could very well have prevented a whole lot of heartache for a whole lot of people commencing in a matter of minutes.
Jer
Hmmm?
Submitted by Boudin on Thu, 05/24/2012 - 9:49pm.
although it is questionable whether carrying a Kel-Tec 9mm
What do you recon happens if he wasnt? Think we would ever be discussing why Martin bashed his head in to sidewalk?
Fact is, if your legal to carry, why shouldn't you? Even IF the Police and others now claim you shouldn't, it is the persons who carries decision to make.
To pretend Martin had any reason to physically attack anyone is exactly why he is dead right now. There is never a good reason to assault someone unless someone is being assaulted.
Oh, this is gonna be fun.
Submitted by bkeyser on Thu, 05/24/2012 - 10:14pm.
So:
"While returning to the address where he was temporarily residing, a stranger in an unmarked truck begins scrutinizing him, monitoring his movements, staring at him, and continues this odd and intimidating behavior while making a phone call, then subsequently exits the vehicle and begins to trail and pursue him."
"The stranger is un-uniformed and never identifies himself. I think anyone in Martin's position would feel menaced, threatened--even endangered."
And then, inexplicably:
"Martin has no duty to continue to his residence, knowing that someone in the neighborhood is apparently targeting him for some unfathomable reason."
Followed by the equally questionable:
"Indeed, he had every right to confront Zimmerman and demand an explanation."
"...Zimmerman, shortly after being confronted, unholstered his weapon, displayed it to Martin who then reflexively adjudged that the best means of protecting himself was to go "MMA" on the individual posing the threat."
"Thus in hindsight, though getting physical might not have been the most prudent response by Martin..."
"in the split-second reality for decision-making under extraordinarily exigent circumstances, such reaction shouldn't be summarily dismissed on the grounds of incomprehensibility."
"Returning to your suggestion of how Martin could have avoided the ultimate consequences, the point is begged that Zimmerman could also have likely averted the tragedy by simply making himself known as the neighborhood watch captain and asking Martin where he lived, what he was doing on the property, etc."
"...he was not actively engaged in any criminal behavior whatsoever."
Yes, Jer. Lots went wrong. I can't imagine being in Zimmerman's shoes knowing he took this kid's life. And I can't imagine how terrible the family feels to have lost this kid. It's truly tragic. I was really moved when I read the autopsy report- how imprersonal it was. That bothers me. I am genuinely sad that this kid didn't have a chance to grow up and doing something good for the world. But Zimmerman didn't do anything wrong. And if he hadn't been armed, who's to say he wouldn't have been under the tarp, not moving in the rain that night?
I cannot freakin' believe it...
Submitted by Jer on Thu, 05/24/2012 - 11:47pm.
Just spent the past hour with a point by point response, and when I tried to post it--poof!
Later,
Jer
Lol Jer.
Submitted by bkeyser on Thu, 05/24/2012 - 11:59pm.
I hate when that happens. Oh well, it probably would have just made me feel stupid.
Tell you what- when you get a chance try to explain this to me: Why were liberals immediately drawn to Martin's defense and why, after all that's been released, do some still find the need to remain steadfastly (is that a word?) so? (By the way, I realize you're taking the role of prosecutor here and you're not one of those referenced immediately above.)
bk...
Submitted by Jer on Fri, 05/25/2012 - 12:40am.
I was planning another post with a few references to some really egregious/irresponsible behavior which distorted early perspectives on this case.
1. The widespread publication of an extremely dated photo of an angelic-looking 12-year-old Martin which prompted Obama to open his presidential piehole and utter the 'e looks lik a laddie of me oon blood silliness. I dare say after the release of the contemporary and more menacing-looking Martin pics, he regretted that remark.
2. NBC's 911 transcript editing debacle--inexcusable and enormously prejudicial
3. Was there some reason for withholding the more graphic blood-dripping-down-his-head pics of Zimmerman taken just after the incident? The initial photos and tape excerpts made it appear there was virtually no injury to Zimmerman.
4. Let's face it, the early narrative did provoke serious questions--even in the minds of many conservatives: Innocent and unarmed black teen walking home carrying skittles and iced tea gunned down by white neighborhood vigilante, and police say "no problem".
5. There is one area where the MSM has exhibited a definite bias for years: Racial issues. The rare instances of white on black crime are vastly overpublicized. And the far more frequent instances of black on white crime are swept under the rug. It's white guilt and a fear that blacks will be further stereotyped and stigmatized and that it may fan the flames of re-ignited racism. it's the elephant in the room that we pretend not to see and dare not talk about.
Jer
Ok. Who are you
Submitted by bkeyser on Fri, 05/25/2012 - 12:50am.
and what have you done with Jer?
In all honesty, I came down on the side of Zimmerman right from the start precisely because of 1-5. I've become so jaded on the media that I pretty much instinctively go the opposite direction on social/civil issues like this one. And whenever there's a rush to judgement, they're almost invariably wrong.
Well, bk...for the record, this was my very first comment
Submitted by Jer on Fri, 05/25/2012 - 1:18am.
on the case:
A few words for the liberal "jump to conclusions" crowd:
Submitted by Jer on Thu, 03/22/2012 - 12:23am.
Brawley, Tawana
Duke Lacrosse
Loughner, Jared
Wait on the facts.
Jer
Read more: http://newsbusters.org/blogs/ken-shepherd/2012/03/21/msnbccom-not-msnbc-...
You are wise
Submitted by bkeyser on Fri, 05/25/2012 - 1:39am.
beyond your ears, Jer.
➚ Hi, My name is Jer
Submitted by Cool Arrow on Fri, 05/25/2012 - 12:56am.
Hi Jer!
One day at a time, Jer.
What you've just experienced is what's known as CLARITY.
We're pullin' for ya'. Another day without Kool-Aid, and another, and another . . .
Keep coming back! It works if you work it!
Jer~
Submitted by GG_NB on Fri, 05/25/2012 - 12:12pm.
Love your post. Of course, it's because I completely agree with you. :) Sometimes you DO post things I agree with...I mean, it's not all that often, but it happens. ;)
As for losing your long post -- I've gotten into the habit of copying longer posts before attempting to send one through. Sorry you lost yours. Been there, a lot.
"If not us, who? If not now, when?"
~Ronald Reagan
GG...
Submitted by Jer on Fri, 05/25/2012 - 2:17pm.
Re those few posts which you do agree with...
Copy and paste into a file and review from time to time.
;-)
Jer
Jer~
Submitted by GG_NB on Fri, 05/25/2012 - 3:19pm.
No kiddin'...there were so few and I could never remember what/where they are! ;) But I will remember this one [Zimmerman: check!].
"If not us, who? If not now, when?"
~Ronald Reagan
GG...I've always felt my best work was obliterated
Submitted by Jer on Fri, 05/25/2012 - 4:01pm.
in the Calamitous Archive Wipeout of 2010, which I think someday will be ranked alongside the burning of the Library of Alexandria--which destroyed 90% of the world's reposited knowledge--as the two great tragedies befalling Western civilization.
Jer
Like.
Submitted by The Vet on Sat, 05/26/2012 - 12:17am.
I recently went to google something. A grammar rule or suntin'.. Guess what the very top link returned was? Yep. A link back to one of my posts months and months back. Now it might be that my searches are similar to what I write. Or it might be that I am becoming the scholar of google. And had not all my old posts been wiped out in the greate NB comment wipeout of 2010, most of the top results on any question in google might point to The Best of The Vet posts.
➚ VET rocks
Submitted by Cool Arrow on Sat, 05/26/2012 - 12:27am.
Think I'll google "viscous troll" and see if I can trace its origin.
Vet Sycophant
Submitted by sentry_99 on Sat, 05/26/2012 - 12:52am.
Who shows up when you Google that?
*
*
*
*
*
THIS GUY!!!!
Thanks Mike.
Sometimes all you can say is
Submitted by Boudin on Sat, 05/26/2012 - 1:19am.
Rock and Roll Hoochi Coo
I agree
Submitted by Boudin on Sat, 05/26/2012 - 12:30am.
Myself, on the other hand,
Jer~
Submitted by GG_NB on Fri, 05/25/2012 - 12:17pm.
I had to double-post that, just to get it to post once. My "bar" is getting stuck quite often on this site recently.
"If not us, who? If not now, when?"
~Ronald Reagan
Any computer geniuses out there ever have a problem
Submitted by Jer on Fri, 05/25/2012 - 12:06am.
with either 1. the page suddenly starts scrolling uncontrollably, or 2. the cursor begins going haywire, traveling nonstop across the screen?
This has happened to me 6 or 7 times over the past month. The first three times I had to completely power off computer, and on reboot would get "keyboard error" message.
The last few times, I've been able to stop it [scrolling] without shutting down by navigating away from the page, but this time it obliterated a lengthy comment.
Thanks for any suggestions.
Jer
Jer, for #1,
Submitted by UpNorth on Fri, 05/25/2012 - 12:15am.
it may be that you have a malfunctioning pad in the keyboard that thinks it's always engaged when it isn't.
#2, my neighbor had that problem, his cursor would go absolutely nuts, not respond to what he was doing. It was something to do with his router and the possibility that someone was piggybacking on his connection. Or that the router went bad. These electronic things try to think for themselves from time to time.
Other than that, I don't know. I don't know if you even have a router. If you do, maybe it's gone bad?
Try a new battery in your mouse, Jer
Submitted by Blonde on Fri, 05/25/2012 - 12:16am.
And if you are still "wired"....go spend $60 and get a wireless mouse and keyboard!
That way, when it goes bonkers (or dies)....you know it's time for some new batteries.
Handy Reference Guide to Obama's Gaffes and Goofs ~ Currently Numbering 200 (and Counting)
Good evening Jer
Submitted by cocodrie on Fri, 05/25/2012 - 12:23am.
Check to see if some of your scotch is missing. Your mouse may have a drinking problem.
Jesus Loves You so much He died for you
That's not it, coco
Submitted by Cool Arrow on Fri, 05/25/2012 - 12:30am.
The mouse is just fine. Jer may simply be incapable of tapping a "right-click"
Good ev4ening Cool
Submitted by cocodrie on Fri, 05/25/2012 - 12:40am.
You're right, Jer never has been right.
Jesus Loves You so much He died for you
Thanks one and all...
Submitted by Jer on Fri, 05/25/2012 - 1:00am.
Amazingly, cocodrie was right. Just kidding. coco, go to your room.
Blonde, this started when I was using a wireless mouse with keyboard connected by USB. I checked "keyboard failure" troubleshooting section of manual and it said possibly loose connection, or try switching keyboards. I switched, no problem for a few days but then it happened again. I decided my several-year-old USB Hub was corrupted and replaced it. That was not the solution. Switched keyboards yet again.
The last 2 or 3 times, I'm not having to completely power off, and I'm not getting a "keyboard error" message when I restart. But a couple of times a week, I'm still experiencing the cursor or scrolling gone wild issues.
As far as routers, I have had issues with them in the past as well. I'm on my third one in the last two years. It's a Netgear wireless, connected by ethernet to my Comcast modem.
Computers are still just too damn complicated.
Jer
There's only one solution, Jer
Submitted by Blonde on Fri, 05/25/2012 - 1:46am.
Buy a new computer.
Laptop.
Handy Reference Guide to Obama's Gaffes and Goofs ~ Currently Numbering 200 (and Counting)
Jer
Submitted by Par for the Course on Fri, 05/25/2012 - 7:56am.
To check your USB:
Start Menu
Control Panel
System
Hardware Tab
Device Manager
You'll see all of your hardware items there and can check if they are working properly.
I would check the Human Interface devices first. Expand the HI devices section and highlight one of the USB Human interface devices (I have two, optical mouse and keyboard). Highlight one by a left click, then right click and click properties. Under the General Tab, in the device status box, it should tell you if your device is working properly. If it isn't, you have an option of troubleshooting.
Back in the day, I built a few computers and had to use the Device Manager to check for device IRQ conflicts.
cursor
Submitted by milootoole on Fri, 05/25/2012 - 1:57am.
It's called the liberal cursor problem. The circuitry thinks it has become a liberal and cannot make sense of the logic of the circuits. In fact, it goes so crazy as to flit all over the monitor.
The page scrolling is quite the opposite. It is the monitor trying to run away from liberal thoughts on the screen.
If you are patient, just wait, sit there, watch the screen for as long as necessary. Nothing may happen, but it is known as Hope and Change.
In liberal terms that means --it's only words with no positive deeds or action to follow.
There are 5 trillion of these problems.
There is little help--The support page says " Don't Ask, Don't Tell".
Joining keyboards of the same make with your current keyboard is frowned upon and quite unnatural.
The current administration has closed the pipeline to resolve problems and is moving the call center to the middle east where it is not wanted.
In the face of these problems , the President has decided NOT to call up the Coal reserves for help, but rather to have them stand off.
Typos are being caused by a new virus. It is BidenBug. It causes different letters to appear on the monitor than the keys you stroke. It also transmits the page before you are ready to send it.
There is a temp fix for it. It is called the Jaycarneylies.fix. It essentially performs a Boolean function and makes truth look like lies and vice versa.
You can get total relief if you restore your operating system to an older release code nam "itsallbush'sfault".
Good night and good luck.
Mili
Submitted by Radical1979 on Fri, 05/25/2012 - 8:00am.
LMAO. Great post.
That's some funny stuff!
Submitted by Blonde on Fri, 05/25/2012 - 10:04am.
Thanks for the giggles.
Handy Reference Guide to Obama's Gaffes and Goofs ~ Currently Numbering 200 (and Counting)
Awesome!
Submitted by bkeyser on Fri, 05/25/2012 - 1:18pm.
Poor Jer.
Xlnt, milo ---
Submitted by matthewdean on Fri, 05/25/2012 - 10:40pm.
Great stuff !
MD
Jer ---
Submitted by matthewdean on Thu, 05/24/2012 - 10:18pm.
"Thus in hindsight, though getting physical might not have been the most prudent response by Martin--"
No shit.
Martin was on top of Zimmerman, beating on him, and Zimmerman shot his ass dead.
In a sane world, sans liberal do-gooder bleeding hearts and race mongers, the story would already have "Paid" put to it.
MD
You keep riding the same old horse
Submitted by Radical1979 on Wed, 05/23/2012 - 8:36pm.
despite the fact that you're riding off a cliff.
It means the police interviewed Zimmerman and they haven't made the interview public. There are a lot of things that make Zimmerman look innocent that the police haven't released.
The a-holes who get away are the criminals. Obviously "he looks black" isn't the same as "he's black". There was doubt about his race. Zimmerman has also been shown to volunteer with black children and do other work with blacks.
I'm not getting into this anymore with you van. So far all of your arguments are just rehashing issues that have already been discussed and dealt with. That fact that you are to lazy to read the threads, or simply to blockheaded to see the truth, is not worth my time.
Troll somewhere else. You're boring.
Wow, convenient.
Submitted by Vandamage2000 on Wed, 05/23/2012 - 9:01pm.
If only the police would be so kind to let Zimmerman off the hook.
He called the cops because Martin merely looked black. No racism there, right?
Martin was a criminal at the time Zimmerman followed him? What do you know that no one else knows, Radical?
I don't care about what Martin or Zimmerman did before this incident. If you want to talk about Zimmerman's volunteering while ignoring his arrest record, you do so at the expense of your credibility.
Answer my questions, instead of just giving up and calling me boring.
Van, when you want to have an honest debate
Submitted by Radical1979 on Wed, 05/23/2012 - 9:13pm.
instead of bringing up old crap that has been discussed over and over, let me know. Comments like "Martin was a criminal at the time Zimmerman followed him?" demonstrate a deliberate obtuseness, or a lack of reading comprehension.
You cry racism and when I give you examples to refute Zimmerman being a racist you immediately say you don't care.
So you don't want to have an honest debate or exchange of ideas. You want to provoke, irritate, and feel important by being a pain in the a$$. I just don't care enough about you to bother with someone so juvenile.
All the black friends in the world don't save Zimmerman
Submitted by Vandamage2000 on Thu, 05/24/2012 - 12:41am.
I don't care how many Black friends he has, or how many Black children he read to, or how many Black people he saved from burning buildings. Those events do not matter.
If he persued Martin because he was a black man in his neighborhood, he is a racist. I dont know how else to paint this picture for you. Zimmerman sees a black man, and immediately calls the police. Why do you see that as something other than racism?
"He looks Black." Please, come quickly! He's getting away!
"persued"?
Submitted by drsamherman on Thu, 05/24/2012 - 1:00am.
Usually academics like you have a better grasp of how to use a spell checking feature.
What's wrong? The feminist language translator on your laptop not working?
Lord, you ARE a fool, VD, just as ---
Submitted by matthewdean on Thu, 05/24/2012 - 1:11am.
UpNorth pointed out - you latch onto a non-fact and flay the hell out of it.
"He looks black" was a direct response, from Zimmerman, to a direct question, asked by the dispatcher.
You are not only a fool, VD; you are a dishonest, agit-prop infested, situation twisting, fact avoiding nimrod.
And those are your good points.
MD
Nonsense
Submitted by milootoole on Fri, 05/25/2012 - 4:50pm.
Your tag should be braindamage2000.
How incredibly illogical. Have you read and or watched on TV without your, "I already made my mind up" glasses on??
The first day I felt there was a lot to be explained , but I wondered if Zimmerman was over zealous. Each day since then, additional information has been released and the onus lies on Martin.
I have seen the gashes on Z'z head. I have seen his broken nose. I have heard each of the ME's releases. I have seen NBC get their asses roasted , as they should. I have also seen Judge Pirro on one of the Fox shows come up with the most dumbassed statement ever when she saw photos of Zimmerman's head and said, "The blood is running in the wrong direction".
Also, all the statements so far indicate that Zimmerman really didn't know or consider what color Martin was until questioned by the 911 operator. Why don't they go after the 911 operator for being a racist??
Did you mean to say that Zimmerman perused him???
VD, for you to even speak of---
Submitted by matthewdean on Wed, 05/23/2012 - 9:17pm.
credibility is ridiculous.
Laughable.
Insane.
As you are so fond of giving orders, I have one for you ---
Kiss my ass, you boring, light years less than mediocre one trick pony.
MD
So I take it GZ was supposed to just lay there and let TM...
Submitted by Dave. on Wed, 05/23/2012 - 9:27pm.
...pound his head into the concrete until his skull split open and his brains fell out.
If somebody jumped me from behind, had me on the ground and was doing to me what that "kid" was doing to Zimmerman, if I have a gun, they are getting popped.
And I wouldn't give a flying fornication how much, or how little, light they reflect, as I am going to be just as dead if I do nothing to defend myself.
-Dave
Vote for the American in November
Dave
Submitted by Radical1979 on Wed, 05/23/2012 - 9:32pm.
Obama is pretty much pounding the U.S. into the concrete until it's skull splits open and we're dead.
And certainly Obama expects us to just lay there, as he has a temper tantrum whenever confronted over our displeasure.
Rad, It's the self-destructive mental disorder they all have
Submitted by Dave. on Wed, 05/23/2012 - 9:59pm.
They just cannot help themselves.
And if they want to self-destruct, that is fine by me.
I just resent the fact that they are trying to force me to do the same.
-Dave
Vote for the American in November
double
Submitted by Radical1979 on Wed, 05/23/2012 - 9:34pm.
.
So I take it GZ's word is gospel to you?
Submitted by Vandamage2000 on Thu, 05/24/2012 - 12:42am.
I suppose you beleive OJ 's side of the story as well, right?
Mr. Group Rights Advocate:
Submitted by Unsane on Thu, 05/24/2012 - 11:58am.
How many letters, phone calls, and e-mails have you sent to the proper authorities, demanding OJ Simpson's immediate release from prison, due to OJ Simpson's group rights?
"CONSUMED DEMOCRACY RETURNS A SOCIALIST REGIME" - Slayer, "Fictional Reality", from Divine Intervention (1994)
And you don't know either.
Submitted by UpNorth on Thu, 05/24/2012 - 12:55am.
Where is it written that Z has to share that with the police? It isn't, is it, Lynchmo? As a matter of fact, there is an article in the constitution(you are familiar with that, aren't you?) that states, in part, No person.........."nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law".
The part of being a witness against himself is real important.
And, for the 40th time this has been answered by at least that many posters here, "he looks black" was in response to the call-takers question, it was NOT volunteered by Zimmerman. Once you latch onto a non-fact, you just can't let it go, can you?
"How do you know he stopped? Were you there?". How do you know he didn't, were you there? How do you know he didn't pirouette and dance Swan Lake before the cops showed up? You weren't there.
Also not volunteered by Zimmerman? A reason
Submitted by Vandamage2000 on Thu, 05/24/2012 - 12:41pm.
A reason to suspect Martin.
I'm still waiting for someone to answer what it was about Martin that made a call to Police so urgent. Being young?
Does Zimmerman routinely report young people to police?
Wearing a hoodie?
Being black?
How about: A neighborhood
Submitted by NC Cop on Thu, 05/24/2012 - 12:48pm.
How about:
A neighborhood that had experienced a rash of burglaries.
and
A face he did not recognize from his community.
Whenever we conduct community watch meetings this is exactly what we tell people. If someone doesn't look right or feel right, they probably aren't. They can call the police and report anyone they want if they dont recognize them. There is no law against calling the police to check someone out if you think they need to be checked.
What don't you get about that?
Yes, Van Liar
Submitted by Cool Arrow on Fri, 05/25/2012 - 12:33am.
As I pointed out earlier, the police had received 46 phone calls from Zimmerman.
Though I doubt you will honestly investigate, please get back with us on the breakdown of black, young, and hoodie.
You have confirmed one thing with your
Submitted by UpNorth on Sat, 05/26/2012 - 12:57am.
torturous path to irrelevance, VD, and that is that you would never, ever, be even a mediocre law enforcement officer.
You have no idea of what the word suspicious means, I'd bet that if you saw a moving van backed up to your neighbor's home, in the twilight of a rainy day, with 5 or 6 16 year old black males, Hispanic males, or lesbians, that you knew didn't live there, you still wouldn't call the police, because your fear of being thought racist/sexist would paralyze you. You'd probably walk over to inquire if they were collecting for the United Negro College Fund, La Raza or the Rainbow Coalition. And get your a$$ kicked all over the yard.
Here's a definition for you, because, unlike you, the posters here regularly source their points, tending to suspect: inclined or tending to believe that something is wrong, "a suspicious nature".
VD, you wouldn't know context, outside of ---
Submitted by matthewdean on Wed, 05/23/2012 - 8:12pm.
liberal bullshit, if it bit you in your stupid ass.
Here you are, back again, arguing the same insipid garbage you originally started out with ---
You are, as a liberal putz, most definitely motivated by feelings, and that comes through loud and clear even as you deny it.
Martin may not have been committing a crime by being in the neighborhood, but he was indeed committing a crime when he was shot; that of whaling on Zimmerman.
Agreeing with Jeb Bush, as far as the Stand Your Ground issue, has absolutely nothing to do with the sorry claptrap you espouse while engaged in what you would spuriously label 'debate' all the while you are spouting your amazingly dense socialistic liberal crap.
Asswipe mental munchkins like you and Al Sharpton are an embarrassment to the human race in general, and to thoughtful people, specifically.
Screw you, and the horse you rode in on.
MD
LIKE
Submitted by sentry_99 on Wed, 05/23/2012 - 8:15pm.
*
Legitimate concern?
Submitted by Vandamage2000 on Wed, 05/23/2012 - 8:29pm.
What made Martin a Legitimate concern? That Zimmerman didn't know who he was?
Am I supposed to believe that Zimmerman contacted the police every time he saw someone in the neighborhood he didnt recognize?
I bring up Jeb Bush because you want to ignore him. Why not lump him in with Sharpton and Jackson? Oh, I know why. You want to push your own narrative, that the controversy over this case is simple race baiting, and couldn't possibly be a complex legal issue worthy of debate by everyone.
It's easy to blame a small group of people you hate for the press coverage you cant stand, especially when you willfully ignore strong conservative voices who share the same opinion.
Your questions, VD, are ---
Submitted by matthewdean on Wed, 05/23/2012 - 8:39pm.
balboa redux.
You are a certifiable f*cking moron.
The fact you still beat a dead horse in a thread entitled "The Continued Collapse of the George Zimmerman Case" proves it.
MD
Have you ever read, in any of the posts here, VD,
Submitted by UpNorth on Wed, 05/23/2012 - 8:59pm.
that maybe Stand Your Ground does not apply? Therefore, who gives a flying flip what Jeb Bush thinks?
There is more than one person around who thinks this is a simple case of self-defense, and I know, you're all butt-hurt that an armed man chose not to be turned into a vegetable by having his head pounded into the ground/sidewalk/rock.
And, just for your information, no one here, other than maybe Balboa, cares what you believe about anything. You have, on every occasion, demonstrated that you can't think, won't think, refuse to try to think. IOW, you're a waste of space, time and oxygen.
Still missing the point
Submitted by Vandamage2000 on Wed, 05/23/2012 - 9:02pm.
Jeb Bush was voicing the same concerns as Sharpton and Jackson. Why didnt you call him a race baiter?
2000, A Space-Between-Ears Odyssey
Submitted by MrShy on Wed, 05/23/2012 - 9:16pm.
Trouble-making troll, we're not calling Jeb Bush a race baiter because..... we know him not to be one.
We know a lot about various public figures and what their tendencies, patterns and moral/ethical makeup are. "We" being, intelligent (and almost always conservative) people.
- hoody shy
Join Mr. Shy and The 1* Percent
So, Jeb Bush feeling Zimmerman should be arrested
Submitted by Vandamage2000 on Wed, 05/23/2012 - 10:38pm.
is A- Ok.
Sharpton feeling Zimmerman should be arrested? Unacceptable.
I see your logic. Or should I say, your bias.
If Martin was white, we would
Submitted by NC Cop on Wed, 05/23/2012 - 10:44pm.
If Martin was white, we would have never heard of this incident. Bush would have had the same opinion and Sharpton and the rest of the race baiters would never have set foot in Florida.
It's called living in the real world. Try it sometime.
For once
Submitted by Vandamage2000 on Thu, 05/24/2012 - 12:45am.
We agree on something, NC Cop :-)
But probably not for the same reason. I think if Martin were white, Zimmerman would have been arrested and tried, and the mainstream media would not have given the story a lot of coverage.
The appearance of injustice is what gave the story staying power in the media. You are free to disagree about the injustice part. But you really cant see why some might see the appearance of injustice in this case?
Again for the group rights advocate:
Submitted by Unsane on Thu, 05/24/2012 - 12:01pm.
You're wrong. If Zimmerman were arrested if Martin were white, you would be DEMANDING Zimmerman's immediate release, because Zimmerman's group rights would have then trumped Martin's.
You are far and away the biggest racist here on NB.
"CONSUMED DEMOCRACY RETURNS A SOCIALIST REGIME" - Slayer, "Fictional Reality", from Divine Intervention (1994)
"I think if Martin were
Submitted by NC Cop on Thu, 05/24/2012 - 1:21pm.
"I think if Martin were white, Zimmerman would have been arrested and tried, and the mainstream media would not have given the story a lot of coverage."
Yeah, you figured it out. We only arrest black people when they shoot white people and we only arrest white people when they shoot white people. Gosh, you figured out our secret. You're so smart!
"But you really cant see why some might see the appearance of injustice in this case?"
Not from what I've read, but again, we don't have ALL the evidence. From what is being released though, Zimmerman's account is looking more and more believable. THAT'S what I'm saying.
For the fact-challeneged, like VD,
Submitted by UpNorth on Thu, 05/24/2012 - 9:21pm.
there is a world of difference between offering the opinion that SYG isn't operative, and "feeling that Zimmerman should be arrested".
And, there you go again with the "feelings". Why don't you save yourself some more beatdowns, and just admit that all you have are your "feelings"?
He's pandering to the black racists.
Submitted by UpNorth on Thu, 05/24/2012 - 12:31am.
How's that, slick? .
He's apparently much like you, in this regard. He's taking the word of someone else that this is a Stand Your Ground case. It's doubtful that it is. Again, read what others post, or quit wasting bandwidth.
And Resist We Much and Illegitimate Daddy are voicing concerns? Coulda fooled me, it seems that they're drawing the crowd while you measure the rope.
I only care what _you_
Submitted by balboa on Wed, 05/23/2012 - 9:57pm.
I only care what _you_ believe.
And we don't care what you think.
Submitted by drsamherman on Wed, 05/23/2012 - 10:19pm.
Geez, Bal. Get the hint.
Oh I'm aware, doctor. But
Submitted by balboa on Wed, 05/23/2012 - 10:21pm.
Oh I'm aware, doctor. But you're such great company, I can't tear myself away.
But you are not.
Submitted by drsamherman on Wed, 05/23/2012 - 10:23pm.
And you should not give up your day job to become a comedy writer.
Oh no. Life plan totally
Submitted by balboa on Wed, 05/23/2012 - 10:25pm.
Oh no. Life plan totally ruined.
Oh darn.
Submitted by drsamherman on Wed, 05/23/2012 - 10:32pm.
Garden variety troll--you.
Just because someone dares to
Submitted by balboa on Wed, 05/23/2012 - 10:41pm.
Just because someone dares to disagree with you.
Yeah,
Submitted by NC Cop on Wed, 05/23/2012 - 10:46pm.
that's what it is. Keep thinking that if it helps.
Bal does not think.
Submitted by drsamherman on Wed, 05/23/2012 - 10:48pm.
Therefore it trolls.
You must worship Jeb Bush, Vandamage.
Submitted by drsamherman on Wed, 05/23/2012 - 8:20pm.
To you, he must be Simone de Beauvoir, Bracha Ettinger and Griselda Pollock all combined into one person.
One would think even your brainless little academic head could wrap around the very simple fact that Jeb Bush is a retired politician, not a judge, prosecuting attorney or police officer empowered to order anyone arrested. He's entitled to his opinion, but not to order anyone to do anything.
Easy to see why you would choose academia instead of real life. You can't cope with facts.
Did I suggest Jeb was someone with power currently?
Submitted by Vandamage2000 on Wed, 05/23/2012 - 8:31pm.
He was the gov that signed Stand Your Ground into law. You think his word has no relevance? Why is that?
And when this board complains about race-baiters who made this case a big deal, why do they ignore Jeb?
➚ VanDufus
Submitted by Cool Arrow on Wed, 05/23/2012 - 9:34pm.
Are you still believing this is a "Stand Your Ground" case?
Jeb Bush did not WRITE the law.
Submitted by drsamherman on Wed, 05/23/2012 - 10:14pm.
He could either approve it or veto it as governor. That's all. He approved it at the time. The same type of law is in force in many other states, and passed with huge bipartisan support.
The more relevant question, you gender-fraud, is why you are so obsessed with Jeb Bush?
Where in my post did I mention race-baiting? YOU did.
Your multiple personalities are showing beneath your Freudian slip, Professor.
Freudian, eh?
Submitted by Vandamage2000 on Thu, 05/24/2012 - 12:47am.
I didnt say you mentioned it, I said this board, this collective, has been incessantly whining about race-baiters, and ignoring that conservative commentators have come to the same conclusion as Sharpton.
Name 'em, ---
Submitted by matthewdean on Thu, 05/24/2012 - 12:52am.
then, lib loon.
MD
I think we'll be waiting a long time for that list, MD.
Submitted by UpNorth on Thu, 05/24/2012 - 1:11am.
However Alan Dershowitz thinks this case is a ball of crap, wrapped in innuendo. I wonder what Lynchmo thinks of that? I'd hazard a guess that Dershowitz knows just a bit more about the law than Lynchmo. Perhaps, though, his feelings aren't as in tune with the TM apology crowd as Lynchmo's feelings are?
This little gem shows up in the article, "Thus, if Zimmerman verbally provoked Martin, but Martin then got on top of Zimmerman and banged his head into the ground, broke his nose, bloodied his eyes and persisted in attacking Zimmerman — and if Zimmerman couldn’t protect himself from further attack except by shooting Martin — he would have the right to do that. (The prosecution has already admitted that it has no evidence that Zimmerman started the actual fight.)".
Van Lynchmo, I bolded the last, just for you.
This one, UpNorth, is completely ---
Submitted by matthewdean on Thu, 05/24/2012 - 1:17am.
lost in liberal la-la land.
He keeps going in smaller and smaller circles.
Pretty soon he is going to fly up his own posterior; hopefully never to emerge again into sunlight.
MD
Don't even go there, Professor.
Submitted by drsamherman on Thu, 05/24/2012 - 1:05am.
As a psychiatrist, I am quite used to abnormal pathologies like yours. You mentioned it in your post now you are dissembling and deflecting. Classic presentation of an attention-seeking cluster B personality disorder, Professor. As in -- YOU.
The only conclusion we can come to on this discussion is that you are a massive fraud, Professor. Apparently New England is not a good environment for your sanity.
"Apparently New England is
Submitted by milootoole on Fri, 05/25/2012 - 5:53pm.
"Apparently New England is not a good environment for your sanity."
I really don't want to defend VD, but I believe NE is NOT a good environment for any sanity at all.
No liberty but group rights for some
Submitted by Unsane on Thu, 05/24/2012 - 1:18am.
But you do not want a trial. You want Zimmerman summarily executed for violating Mr. Martin's group rights. In your mind, the cops, once they arrived on scene, should have immediately determined, as you already have, that Mr. Martin's group rights far outweigh Mr. Zimmerman's, and that the cops should have simply said the following to Mr. Zimmerman: "You are under arrest. You have no rights whatsoever." This right before blowing Mr. Zimmerman's head off.
Yeah, yeah, I know, you will now whine endlessly that you have never said such things, and you will go on to demand I quit saying that about you. Want me to stop? Quit being a group rights advocate. Look at the case in its entirety. Quit insisting that Mr. Zimmerman not be given any benefit of the doubt whatsoever because of your white guilt and your love of group rights.
"CONSUMED DEMOCRACY RETURNS A SOCIALIST REGIME" - Slayer, "Fictional Reality", from Divine Intervention (1994)
I don't agree, Rich.
Submitted by Newsbubba on Tue, 05/22/2012 - 11:06am.
I think that the cops probably had it right from the beginning, and it would have all been dropped, until the race baiters and the politicians got into the fray.
At that point, the police lost control of the investigation. They knew what they were doing. The rest were just looking for a TV camera or a way to pass the buck.
In fairness to the race
Submitted by G L on Tue, 05/22/2012 - 1:12pm.
In fairness to the race baiters and politicians ( ;-) ), the carefully crafted fabrications of this story happened before they got involved.
Blame the family and their lawyers. And then after you've blamed them, blame the media, who weren't particularly interested in fact-checking. They're the ones who seem to have put together an image of Martin that was completely manufactured. Somehow, they seem to have thought they'd be getting a pay day out of this.
The police wanted Zimmerman charged
Submitted by Vandamage2000 on Tue, 05/22/2012 - 8:11pm.
The original DA declines to press charges.
I'm not sure which news you're reading, Bubba.
ONE detective wanted him
Submitted by NC Cop on Tue, 05/22/2012 - 8:56pm.
ONE detective wanted him charged.
Not sure which news you're reading.
And he doesn't know if that ONE detective was
Submitted by UpNorth on Tue, 05/22/2012 - 10:42pm.
the investigating officer, or one who sat in on the interview. Matter of fact, what VD doesn't know about this case would just about fill the interior spaces of the USS Ronald Reagan.
Right
Submitted by Vandamage2000 on Wed, 05/23/2012 - 8:14pm.
And you took a poll on how many cops wanted the case dropped, and how many wanted Zimmerman tried?
You're the one who made the
Submitted by NC Cop on Wed, 05/23/2012 - 9:43pm.
You're the one who made the statement that the cops wanted him charged, so I could very well ask you the very same thing, you idiot.
Where's your poll on how many cops wanted him charged?
Braindamage
Submitted by sentry_99 on Wed, 05/23/2012 - 9:44pm.
You brought up "the police" you dumb ass. Do you have a poll or a.source? Wait....of course you don't.
Except I didnt bring up the police
Submitted by Vandamage2000 on Thu, 05/24/2012 - 12:48am.
Read the posts I reply to.
Someone posted that if the cops had thier way, this case would be dropped. That isn't exactly accurate.
"That isn't exactly accurate". ---
Submitted by matthewdean on Thu, 05/24/2012 - 12:57am.
would be the perfect username for you, VD Vandamage.
MD
You said Braindamage...
Submitted by sentry_99 on Thu, 05/24/2012 - 1:41am.
"The police wanted Zimmerman charged" as if that were fact. The poster you replied to was giving an opinion. So....got that poll yet? Sources?
Didn't think so.
Regardless of "which" news he is reading, ---
Submitted by matthewdean on Tue, 05/22/2012 - 9:16pm.
Bubba's comments make far more sense than does your fatuous twaddle, VD.
You're too damned stupid to see that your ridiculous presentations about Trayvon Martin, disguised as liberal concern searching for justice, merely reveal you to be not only inept at determining what exactly justice is, but as a socialistic dilettante suffering from a distinct lack of common sense.
MD
Yes, the "2d Degree Murder"
Submitted by celator on Tue, 05/22/2012 - 1:12pm.
Yes, the "2d Degree Murder" charge is preposterous. It doesn't come close to meeting Florida's criteria for such a charge. On the other hand, the DA figured out it met the politically correct charge. And so there we are.
A complete sham.
Liberals know the truth. The
Submitted by motherbelt on Tue, 05/22/2012 - 10:13am.
Liberals know the truth. The facts are a conspiracy. -Me
frightening
Submitted by fadeinlight on Tue, 05/22/2012 - 10:16am.
The scary thing about this is that the government will just suddenly bring charges against you due to popular demand despite knowing that they have no reasonable chance of convicting you. This is not only a colossal waste of taxpayer money, but will end up costing George Zimmerman a tremendous amount as well. Imagine if the public didn't have this kind of access to the evidence? He wouldn't have a legal defense fund, and he'd be rotting in jail without a chance of beating these politically-motivated, empty charges.
Rev. Al Sharpless
Submitted by desert3030 on Tue, 05/22/2012 - 10:25am.
How could anyone link the word justice to anything in a case with Rev Al Sharpless as point? Please when he is at the mirco phone someone ask him when is he going to pay his taxes? The "thug" was in a fight club. The press should use his twitter name, excerpts, and do some leg work. He literally got at 17 what would have happened in the next 5 years. Oh, yea and now the merrywanna is no big deal all at once, just like the gal in the red cowboy hat.
The Justice Brothers Jackson and Sharpton
Submitted by ohio granny on Tue, 05/22/2012 - 10:23am.
The justice brothers Jackson and Sharpton are the ones that made this a racial situation. Whites have been attacked all across the country in retaliation for Trayvon Martin and not a single word from either of them, the Obama administration or any other black leaders.
Why is it always racist if a white attacks a black, but never racist when blacks attack whites even when the blacks say it is payback? In almost all cases of black on white crime, blacks outnumber whites.
From my experience, especially since Obama was elected, it is blacks that are much more racist then whites.
The "Just Us" Brothers Jackson and Sharpton
Submitted by Skunk Ape on Tue, 05/22/2012 - 10:49am.
There, fixed it for you.
No this was a racial
Submitted by G L on Tue, 05/22/2012 - 1:17pm.
No this was a racial situation before Sharpton and Jackson showed up on scene. There was a carefully crafted story package of misinformation put together for the media well before that. Blame the family and their lawyers, and then the media for running with it before doing any checking.
Jackson and Sharpton showed up to do their pimping later.
It's easier to find a woolly mammoth than Van Lynchmo these days
Submitted by SickofLibs on Tue, 05/22/2012 - 10:33am.
.
This is turning into another
Submitted by John21 on Tue, 05/22/2012 - 10:37am.
This is turning into another "Duke" case. Lots of noise and publicity for the "Race Pimps" with little or no evidence.
Ms. Corey has proven herself to be a very incompetent lawyer and a very bad example of Florida Justice system. I think someone should seriously consider taking this mess and her incompetence to the bar and have her removed for cause.
The "Race Pimps" will get a little more of the publicity that they crave and the Martin family will be vilified by them I am sure the claim will be that the Race Pimps had been mislead by the family.
It does not matter the hate they have displayed because that is allowed by the Race Pimps. They haven't been right about a single one of these kind of cases in decades but are incapable of making a living any other way even if their oversized egos would let them.
I hope Ms. Cory suffers the same fate as Nifong
Submitted by Blonde on Tue, 05/22/2012 - 11:56am.
Adios. Stupid.
Handy Reference Guide to Obama's Gaffes and Goofs ~ Currently Numbering 200 (and Counting)
Time for FL's AG to take a lesson from NC.
Submitted by Newsbubba on Tue, 05/22/2012 - 10:42am.
Just as the NC Attorney General did in the Duke LAX case, FL's Attorney General needs to step in and take control of this situation and investigate just what the hell is going on.
Set up a panel of legal experts to sort out the evidence and determine if a case even exists to charge Zimmerman with anything.
Afetr NC did that in the lax case, the DA got disbarred, and the "perps" were declared innocent! I have a feeling that this one will end the same way if the top cop looks at it.
He can do the right thing and bail out the chicken shiite officials who have tried every way they can to dodge the tough calls.
Of course there is always a Plan B for the race baiters and Rev's of the World:
They can declare that Trayvon Martin is a "white African" who attacked a "poor Hispanic" (who's great grandfather was black) who was just trying to look out for his neighborhood, and when he was attacked by the "white yout," the "poor Hispanic" (who's great grandfather was black) had to shot the wild "white" animal to save himself and his neighbors. It was the only way he could defend himself after the "white African man" stole his Arizona Tea and Skittles that he had worked all week to buy. Did I mention that his great grandfather was black?
Come on Rev Al, you can salvage this yet!!
BTW, ...
Submitted by Newsbubba on Tue, 05/22/2012 - 10:51am.
... I heard that the ENT challenged school teacher who "bullied" her student about asking a question about Da One in class, was "suspended" today, WITH PAY!!
Boy, they fixed her a$$.
Pleeeeeeease don't throw me in da briar patch!!
Maybe she can use her paid vacation to work for Obama's reelection committee.
Sweet!
WITH PAY=VACATION
Submitted by ricklail on Tue, 05/22/2012 - 4:13pm.
WITH PAY=VACATION
I just hope George Zimmerman
Submitted by LinTaylor on Tue, 05/22/2012 - 10:55am.
I just hope George Zimmerman can lead an ordinary life after all this. I honestly think that if he's acquitted or the charges are dropped, some hot-headed black kid is going to track him down and shoot him as "justice for Trayvon". Even if that doesn't happen, the poor man's going to spend the rest of his life getting angry glares and vague threats of violence from the people who bought into the original story of "Evil Klansman nutcase guns down black choir boy".
Here comes the Catholic Church!
Submitted by motherbelt on Tue, 05/22/2012 - 11:52am.
40 Catholic dioceses and organizations have filed 12 different lawsuits over the HHS Mandate.
Have a nice summer, Mr. Preezy!
".. the dispatcher advised him not to follow...."
Submitted by Flatliner on Tue, 05/22/2012 - 12:05pm.
This fact seems to be a favorite point for those who think Zimmerman is guilty of something. Because the dispatcher advised him not to follow. "We don't need you to do that"
To which Zimmerman replied "OK".
So, based on information available, Zimmerman agreed to do what the dispatcher suggested. Which should dismiss this attack. But in my mind, what if he didn't follow the dispatcher's suggestion?
The dispatcher is typically not a sworn law enforcement officer. The dispatcher is not on the scene. The dispatcher has no more authority nor better judgement than someone walking by on the street who might offer an opinion on what someone should do when facing a potential criminal or emergency situation.
To me, what the dispatcher "advised' and what Zimmerman chose to do in response is a non-issue.
I agree
Submitted by dmacleo on Tue, 05/22/2012 - 1:51pm.
and so many "forget" that even w/o that authority zimmerman "obeyed" the dispatchers wishes.
Holy Dressage-gate, Batman!
Submitted by Blonde on Tue, 05/22/2012 - 1:11pm.
The Obama surrogates are attacking Anne Romney again....now over her "pricey" hobby of riding dressage horses.
Sorry, fellas, this horse isn't going to hunt.
Compare and contrast Anne Romney's photo on her horse to Michelle Obama's photo (doing anything).
And leave it to the LA Times to smear and smear and smear. Smear-merchants of the MSM. Disgusting.
Handy Reference Guide to Obama's Gaffes and Goofs ~ Currently Numbering 200 (and Counting)
The interesting thing is..
Submitted by Unsane on Thu, 05/24/2012 - 5:24pm.
...last I checked, Anne Romney isn't running for anything whatsoever.
"CONSUMED DEMOCRACY RETURNS A SOCIALIST REGIME" - Slayer, "Fictional Reality", from Divine Intervention (1994)
Squelched Trayvon and New Black Panther Party Videos
Submitted by berlet98 on Tue, 05/22/2012 - 1:19pm.
Squelched Trayvon and New Black Panther Party Videos
As often noted in this space, the mainstream media frequently censor news items they deem politically incorrect or politically damaging to their favorite Democrat politicians. Sometimes, a story makes it on the air, onto cable, or into print that doesn’t fit the MSM mold but that’s as rare as transparency in the Obama administration.
Two subjects accorded lamestream P.C. indulgence are Trayvon Martin and the New Black Panther Party.
In their quest to convict if not hang George Zimmerman of something, anything, negative information concerning the late Trayvon Martin is usually buried by the MSM who prefer to depict the teenager as an innocent young man unjustly stalked and brutally murdered instead of as the pothead, thieving, violent gangbanger he actually was.
One detail about Trayvon Martin has recently surfaced that clearly demonstrates the real Trayvon. Don’t expect Diane Sawyer and her buddies to even mention it.
It seems the young Trayvon had maintained a YouTube account on which he proudly featured his photo with the middle finger of both hands raised in contemptuous salute. He also posted videos including one showing him engaged in a brawl with a white or light-skinned hispanic kid.
Understandably, with lawsuits and monetary compensation in their minds, Martin’s family has vehemently denied the boy in the video is Trayvon and family lawyer Ben Crump dutifully denounced it as nothing more than another attack on Trayvon’s character.
However, someone calls out his name, yelling, “Watch out, Trayvon!” 5 seconds into the 66-second vid, the tattoo on Martin’s right arm is clearly visible, and the fight takes place outside his mother’s home.
Now, kids tend to fight, even if they don’t post a videotape on YouTube accounts for all the world to see the violent, amateur Fight Club exhibition.
Trayvon Martin, though, was not your average teen, according to the family and their attorney.
To them, and to Barack Hussein Obama’s/Eric Holder’s Justice Department intent on turning his killing into a hate crime, he was a sweet, mild-mannered boy who couldn’t possibly have pummeled George Zimmerman into the ground before Zimmerman was forced to shoot him in self-defense.
The video was available on YouTube until it was scrubed, allegedly because it was too violent but not before screen captures and the video itself were saved revealing Martin as something less than a flower child.
No one has ever accused members of the racist New Black Panther Party of being flower children.
Heirs to the notorious old Black Panther Party founded by black domestic terrorists Huey Newton and Bobby Seale who thankfully dissolved into nothingness after being exposed for what they were, the NBPP initially presented itself as different from the old BPP.
In fact, the New Black Panthers are just as treacherous, if not more so, as their forebears. The NBPP simply pretends to be more civilized and law-abiding than the oldies, and they consistently fail. . .
(See the videos and read more at http://www.genelalor.com/blog1/?p=24378.)
I d/l that from youtube few weeks back
Submitted by dmacleo on Tue, 05/22/2012 - 1:53pm.
been planning on uploading it to server independent of youtube (in case pulled again) but had not had chance.
This dude isn't banned yet?
Submitted by Radical1979 on Tue, 05/22/2012 - 2:00pm.
.
Rad...berlet has officially been declared
Submitted by Jer on Tue, 05/22/2012 - 9:09pm.
"The Teflon Spammer"
Jer
Jer
Submitted by Radical1979 on Tue, 05/22/2012 - 9:24pm.
I was kind of hoping to see him be the "access denied" spammer. The least he could do is cut down on the number of paragraphs we have to scroll through to get through his posts. Sigh.
Martin
Submitted by mmilesll on Tue, 05/22/2012 - 2:50pm.
The moment Al and Jesse got involved I knew that Zimmerman was innocent. These two race baiters are wrong yet again. I am sure they are going to apologize for their actions
Gold Teef
Submitted by ZuccoZoid on Tue, 05/22/2012 - 3:15pm.
Yo, gimme fries.
http://ambrosius-augustus-rex.xanga.com/760775627/i-am-not-trayvon-martin/
I see that more and more
Submitted by ricklail on Tue, 05/22/2012 - 3:30pm.
I see that more and more about this ididotic teacher at North Rowan HS is coming out. The student now says that this has been going on all year. He asked one of his buddies to tape this one. My wife caught something that has not been mentioned. She told the student he belonged in her occu prep class Here is NC there are two courses of study, Occupational Prep and College Prep. She was cutting down the kid and nobody caught that. My wife said she was suspened for saying Bush was a shitty president not because she was ignorant nor screaming. The kid left HS and is finishing up at Rowan Cabbarus Tech.
Has this been mentioned on the lamestream media?
The defense can use the THC
Submitted by Pinetree3 on Tue, 05/22/2012 - 4:29pm.
The defense can use the THC thing, maybe. Youtube has removed the video again, so thats just a he-said/he-said thing. No proof.
I posted this yesterday, I'm surprised Matt didn't include it.
Submitted by bkeyser on Tue, 05/22/2012 - 9:27pm.
Anyway, more from the OS:
It's important to note the source.
Also note that it was only 1:40 after GZ hung up with the 911 dispatcher that the fight had escalated to the point that TM was atop of GZ and GZ was heard screaming for help. 1:40. TM was lurking and waited for GZ to get off the phone. No doubt.
Slight correction, bk..
Submitted by Jer on Tue, 05/22/2012 - 11:37pm.
Actually only 1:20.
Jer
I stand
Submitted by bkeyser on Wed, 05/23/2012 - 12:13am.
corrected.
Warning
Submitted by stratman on Wed, 05/23/2012 - 12:18am.
Do not mess with Arithmomania Man. (AKA Arithmo)
Here's some mo mania to dive into...
Submitted by Jer on Wed, 05/23/2012 - 12:29am.
if you haven't already done so.
Warning: Upon completion, allow at least thirty minutes for restoration of normal brain function.
Jer
Either
Submitted by stratman on Wed, 05/23/2012 - 12:42am.
... the article is OCD embodied in print or the author was paid by the word. Maybe both.
This was your way of punishing me by reading it, right?
No, if I had wanted to punish you, I would have linked
Submitted by Jer on Wed, 05/23/2012 - 12:52am.
one of those goofball lefty sources.
Jer
That works too.
Submitted by stratman on Wed, 05/23/2012 - 1:09am.
That works too.
White supremacy in the Tea Party?
Submitted by FranklinCheeses on Tue, 05/22/2012 - 11:52pm.
…”Angry White Dude.”
He was virulently anti-Muslim, anti-blacks, anti-Hispanics, anti-women. I sparred with him, but eventually was reduced to simply swearing at him and his readers. It was cathartic. I enjoyed telling them how stupid they were, but nothing – no well-reasoned argument, no link to facts, no incriminating evidence, no vile swearing, no vicious insult – nothing got through to them. The funniest part was that he kept banning me for swearing – despite the fact that HALF of his commenters were posting links to white supremacist websites. “But, Angry White Dude, aren’t white supremacy sites more disgusting than swear words?” His answer? “No. It’s ok for people to post links to white supremacists on my website, but NO SWEARING.” The stupidity of it boggled my mind, and I eventually gave up trying to point out what a racist, vile, disgusting hypocrite he was.
Angry White Dude is anonymous. I repeatedly called him out, but he remains, to this day, anonymous. He claims to be a brave soul standing up for a downtrodden minority – but he is apparently SO proud of his blog, that he refuses to stand up and take credit for it. In other words, he’s a giant blubbering coward. He knows, deep down, that if he were exposed, his friends and family would be disgusted with him – he would lose business, or perhaps lose his entire job if his clients knew what kind of bigotry he spewed on the weekends. He knows deep down that what he does is disgusting, but he does it anyway. In other words, he purposefully does things that he knows to be immoral and wrong. He is, simply, a bad person without character or morals.
Then I found this:
http://jumpinginpools.blogspot.jp/2010/08/interview-with-angry-white-dud...
His name is Phil. Ok. Not much to go on, but his name is Phil. Cool.
Then I found this: http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:m2Rl9UaDKqgJ:drgina...
This is a cached image of Gina Loudon’s blog. This post, as you see, is tagged “Angry White Dude.” A man claiming to be Phillip Dennis commented on it. Look at Phillip’s avatar. It’s taken from Angry White Dude’s blog.
I emailed Angry White Dude: hey, are you Phillip Dennis? Look at this link.
The next day, the Gina Loudon blog had scrubbed Angry White Dude from their website. Phillip Dennis’s avatar was gone: http://drginaloudon.com/general/arizona-buycott/
It was as if Angry White Dude had contacted this blog and requested they remove the incriminating evidence. He must have, because I didn’t contact this blog until after they scrubbed Angry White Dude from this very page.
Finally, I did a Tin Eye search on Phillip Dennis’s avatar: http://www.tineye.com/search/show_all/d460e7e27a7924c00e6ade3043cbf3ab48...
That avatar, Phillip Dennis’s avatar, came from Angry White Dude. Now, Angry White Dude has toned down his racism lately, I think. He used to have full-blown white supremacists happily posting disgusting bigotry on his comment threads while censoring me for so much as saying a bad word. I called him out: you let racists on your site! And you know what? Those racists are not there anymore. Something did change. Maybe he realized that his bigotry had crossed a line, gone a step further than he meant it to. Perhaps his site was overrun with white supremacists and he realized what he had become. Good. He grew up a little, like most people do at age 20 or so. It only took him ten or twenty years to get to the point where he had the moral compass of a child, but, hey. Good on him for finally reaching some basic level of human decency.
But he was and remains to this day a terrible bigot. And, even if he has found a tiny, miniscule shred of common human decency, he still remains anonymously spreading bile and hate onto the internet – still fully conscious of how foul his behavior is, yet too scared to come forward and admit what he has done.
And you know what? He’s probably the founder of the Dallas Tea Party.
That’s a big deal.
So, Chester B, what's your take on ---
Submitted by matthewdean on Wed, 05/23/2012 - 12:35am.
Louis Farrakhan, Al Sharpton, Jesse Jackson, and Jeremiah Wright - Angry Black Dudes all ?
And how about them New Black Panther Party acolytes ?
Think they might be against big government and out of sight taxation; and if they are, does that make them really nothing more than just anti-white racists a la your insinuation regarding the TEA Party?
MD
You actually read that whole word mush?
Submitted by Jer on Wed, 05/23/2012 - 12:49am.
My compliments to your eyes; both of 'em.
Jer
Please read my comment before responding to it.
Submitted by FranklinCheeses on Wed, 05/23/2012 - 10:40pm.
"Louis Farrakhan, Al Sharpton, Jesse Jackson, and Jeremiah Wright - Angry Black Dudes all ?"
Yes, and? Of course they're angry. They have a right to be.
"Think they might be against big government and out of sight taxation; and if they are, does that make them really nothing more than just anti-white racists a la your insinuation regarding the TEA Party?"
What insinuation? I think you're jumping at shadows here. I have evidence that the LEADER of the Tea Party MIGHT be a white supremacist running an openly racist website.
This says NOTHING about the Tea Party itself - if the Tea Party ISN'T racist, then they should call Angry White Dude out and expel him from their ranks. If the Tea Party IS racist, then they'll embrace Angry White Dude in all his hateful glory.
I'm making NO insinuation, but rather offering you a CHOICE to take the evidence I've found, investigate it, and make a decision. Does Angry White Dude represent the Tea Party? Because HE, as an individual, is racist. Also note that he claims to be a part of a Texas Tea Party and has insinuated that he has some pull within the movement. He sets himself out there as an implicit representative of the Tea Party. Do you accept that? Do you want a bigot representing you? IF NOT, then call him out.
I've insinuated NOTHING about the Tea Party, which you would know if you weren't just throwing out a knee-jerk reaction to buzzwords that trigger a response in you. You're so strung up about this "anti-white" nonsense that your only response to a mere MENTION of racism is to throw out a Tu Quoque and declare that you are rubber and I'm glue.
You know, not every topic is about your pet paranoid fantasy, ok? Leave the New Black Panthers out of this, please. If your only response is to say, "Yeah, but THEY'RE bad, too, so why shouldn't WE be bad?" then...you have the reasoning abilities of my ten-year-old son, who thinks that if his little brother does something, then it justifies whatever he does in response. Sorry - that's not how the real world works. Grown ups have to take responsibility for their actions EVEN WHEN their enemies are doing bad things, too.
Chester
Submitted by Radical1979 on Wed, 05/23/2012 - 10:47pm.
Talk about angry, you are off the rails with rage. Everyone has the right to be angry, but that doesn't give anyone the right to threaten people the way the Farrakhan does.
Secondly, this isn't Tea Party headquarters dude. So for you to come in here spouting off about what we need to do is stupid. Let's see Obama call out the mysagyny of Bill Maher before you come here and lecture us on what we need to do.
Third, your rudeness is uncalled for and isn't going to add a thing to your argument. Whatever your grudge is with AWD, I, and probably most posters on this site, really don't care.
Bogus Chester Bogus & Cheesy Frank ---
Submitted by matthewdean on Thu, 05/24/2012 - 12:47am.
bite me, you twit.
I saw all the names you called NB conservatives in your post on the other thread.
Even hiding behind a keyboard, you come across as a phony, lightweight pos.
MD
edit for:
never mind - apparently your other thread diatribe earned you "ACCESS DENIED".
In record time, too.
Cheesy, we hardly knew ye...
Submitted by Jer on Thu, 05/24/2012 - 3:17am.
But on a positive note, you did make remarkable progress in proper comment paragraphing prior to your abrupt departure.
[I've always been a 'glass half full' kind of guy.]
Jer
AWD's alter ego
Submitted by kathy5319 on Wed, 08/08/2012 - 4:13pm.
Newsbusters and banned? "Chester"..
I know that AWD has posts here, and am disappointed at the handling of Chester's comments. While it appears that the response, after some thought was "so what"... coupled w/ some mention of "Al Sharpton," etc. A big difference, is that AWD is now a public figure and has his anonymous blog. It matters. I've known what Chester knows for longer, and I think that the public needs to know as well. AWD should come clean.
Actually, I presume the response from most on the right will be the same as yours. I posted there a long time ago, awhile back, foolishly trying for a dialogue... The acronym sounds a little harsh at first, then... it rolls of the tongue, and for that matter, Pam Gellar doesn't hide. Still, I think many might be stunned, and I think rightly so. I don't believe AWD is a white "supremacist", but I now think it should be up to the public, if interested to get to know people a little bit better.
"The stupidity of it boggled
Submitted by milootoole on Fri, 05/25/2012 - 8:48am.
"The stupidity of it boggled my mind, and I eventually gave up trying to point out what a racist, vile, disgusting hypocrite he was."
Been to the site Angry White Dude is far from a racist vile or hypocrite. Actually, he is quite funny. Indeed, there are some WS and some bigots. Read more carefully.
What you preach is political correctness. I visit the site from time to time. Sometimes I LMAO. The Dude is not the only one with a column there. A couple of other posters publish columns. One person catches daily news and adds it. Another (Redstate, I think) publishes thought provoking articles . One series is entitled Putting The Toothpaste Back in The Tube.
"He knows deep down that what he does is disgusting, but he does it anyway. In other words, he purposefully does things that he knows to be immoral and wrong."
I disagree- while I found a few of his posters to be out and out bigots, I noticed that some of the other posters there called them out and they went off into the sunset. It is your own bias that makes you see him that way. I do not care what his name is (or hers), I only care about what is written.
I drop in there about twice a week because, I am in agreement with the fact that middle class white men are on the bad end of the stick. It seems anyone of color, or female or Hispanic is , in the world of the media, superior to white middle class men. I see it in almost every commercial on TV.
No Limits
Submitted by Tracker 3 on Wed, 05/23/2012 - 7:51am.
Trayvon may have been known to not have any limits....aka No Limit N***a.
But we do know he had an expiration date!
I think Zimmerman is going to have one hell of a malicious...
Submitted by Dave. on Wed, 05/23/2012 - 9:10pm.
...prosecution lawsuit against just about everybody involved, if what I am hearing and reading turns out to be true.
I hope he winds up affixing Angela Corey's bar card to his fireplace mantel with a nail gun.
With any luck, she'll wind up just like that over-zealous idiot loser Nifong.
-Dave
Vote for the American in November
This could almost
Submitted by Rukus on Thu, 05/24/2012 - 5:46am.
Be on the most excellent gaffe list of J's. Obama's son would look just like this (according to Barry himself.)
Franklin Cheeses, What the hell did I just miss?
Submitted by QMCS on Thu, 05/24/2012 - 11:43pm.
What the heck does this have to do with this topic,
What the heck does the Tea Party have to do with the Zimmerman case?
Just when the heck did the Tea Party get a leader, and how come none of us were told about it?
and finally, next time before you go full on rant, at least explain what the heck you are talking about.