Open Thread: No, You Can't
In his column today, Fox Business Network host John Stossel makes an interesting observation: Americans are suspicious of government and yet they seem unable to resist the impulse to grow it. This despite the manifest record of failure that Big Government has racked up for itself:
Opinion polls suggest that Americans are dissatisfied with government. Yet whenever another crisis hits, the natural human instinct is to say, "Why doesn't the government do something?"
And politicians appear to be problem-solvers. We believe them when they say, "Yes, we can!"
In 2008, when Barack Obama's supporters shouted, "Yes, we can!" they expressed faith in the power of government to solve problems. Some acted as if Obama were a magical politician whose election would end poverty and inequality and bring us to "the moment when the rise of the oceans began to slow and our planet began to heal."
At least now people have come to understand that presidents -- including this president -- can't perform miracles.
In other words: No, they can't! -- which happens to be the title of my new book.
Free people, however, do perform miracles, which is why "No's" subtitle is: "Why Government Fails -- But Individuals Succeed."
Those who believe an elite group of central planners can accomplish more than free people need some economics. I hope my book helps.
People vastly overestimate the ability of central planners to improve on the independent action of diverse individuals. What I've learned watching regulators is that they almost always make things worse. If regulators did nothing, the self-correcting mechanisms of the market would mitigate most problems with more finesse. And less cost.
But people don't get that. People instinctively say, "There ought to be a law."
How can conservatives persuade people to stop leaning on the crutch of government and start taking more self-initiative?
- Matthew Sheffield's blog
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Comments
Just give them enough rope
Submitted by Vonu on Wed, 04/11/2012 - 9:23am.
Soon the failure of central planning will be apparent to all.
If that were true then it
Submitted by Dan The Man 2 on Wed, 04/11/2012 - 9:35am.
If that were true then it would be done away with. The problem is according to PT Barnum "There is a sucker born every minute."
My dad says
Submitted by panzerakc on Wed, 04/11/2012 - 12:45pm.
That Barnum underestimated the birth rate.
unfortunately
Submitted by c5then on Wed, 04/11/2012 - 9:54am.
the failure will be apparent only after a large majority are in the same boat in the middle of the ocean that the central planners built with water soluable glue instead of the more expensive nails.
Central Planning is a problem based in the human ego. It is the thinking that "smart people" should be making all the decisions for the "stupid masses". It has been shown over and over through history that it doesn't work because no one, nor any group, is smart enough to predict the future or foresee all the consequenses of a particular action.
When millions of individuals all make their own decision, there will inevitably be many who decide wrong and come out worse off than they otherwise would have, but in aggregate more people will choose correctly and therefore society will in general be better off. When the decision is concentrated and made for the whole, the incorrect decision will be magnified by the fact that it affects the entire society and not just a small percentage of it. This makes small mistakes become magnified into major crises and big mistakes get magnified into complete disasters.
The housing crash is a perfect example. It was when the government decided that EVERYONE should own their own home and worked against the laws of economics and financial prudence to make that happen that the bubble was created that had to eventually burst.
Madison and Jefferson and Franklin built a Republic - Roberts killed it!
Russia and the Soviet Union
Submitted by Kingfish17 on Wed, 04/11/2012 - 10:12am.
Yes, given enough time, a centrally planned economy will collapse. But how long did it take Czarist Russia and the subsequent Soviet Union to collapse? A long time. And the very brief period of what could have possibly emerged as a democracy, (not a republic), was very short lived indeed. Now they are back to a dictatorship.
A free Republic, governed by laws and not "democracy rules", is a rare occurrence, and is being taken apart one brick at a time.
"You can’t go take a trip to Las Vegas...on the taxpayer’s dime." Barack Obama
Even though it will soon be
Submitted by Rusty Shackleford on Wed, 04/11/2012 - 1:52pm.
Even though it will soon be apparent to all, the author's premise is correct: people would rather hope for the best and give the power to the government than to trust themselves. This is why a lot of former communist countries still cling to their socialist safety nets instead of abandoning collectivity altogether.
Socialism creates a society of children, and what would happen if you suddenly took the parental figures away from a 10 year old? Even if the kid hated their parents they'd probably seek out another parental figure or "go feral" because they just don't have the capacity to fend for themselves.
I also don't think this is something that you can educate people away from because the leftwing point of view is grounded in knee-jerk emotionalism and the "cure" involves taking people away from their emotion and expecting them to think about and analyze an issue with a rational mind.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Chris Matthews: The Joy Behar of MSNBC.
Bill Maher: The Joy Behar of HBO.
Paul Krugman: The Joy Behar of The New York Times.
Some people...
Submitted by c5then on Wed, 04/11/2012 - 9:41am.
Just inherently want a "mommie" to take care of them and tell them what to do. We as a culture have supported that view and encouraged it with all of the government programs. The socialist ideology promotes the misguided principle that the government should "take care" of it's population as if the government has it's own supply of funds. The government must in fact first take these funds from it's citizens in order to turn around and use them to "take care" of it's citizens. Of course the overhead of all the government workers and any fraud and graft mean that the return will be less than 100%. So the government taking money to use for it's citizen's benefit is inherently inefficient. It could just allow it's citizens to keep their money and take care of themselves. The socialist/Marxist idea that the rich should pay for everybody else comes from the 19th century jealousy of royalty who had almost all the wealth and the desire to see that re-distributed to the rest of the population. Today we have wealth that was earned by generating jobs, production and fueling the economy (for the most part). That is not something to be jealous of as much as it is something to admire and attempt to emulate.
In order to promote the best and most robust economy and the healthiest population, the government should function more like a referee, not a surrogate mother.
Madison and Jefferson and Franklin built a Republic - Roberts killed it!
The death of cultural independence
Submitted by Huapakechi on Wed, 04/11/2012 - 9:56am.
People have been indoctrinated since the 'head start' classes and right of through school to whine for authority to "help" whenever they run into a problem.
Even he Saturday cartoons were tailored to reinforce the 'helplessness' of the individual. One episode of "Captain Planet" got the TV permanently unplugged on Saturday morning.
Stossel wants individual freedom
Submitted by Kingfish17 on Wed, 04/11/2012 - 10:14am.
And individual freedom scares people across the entire political spectrum.
"You can’t go take a trip to Las Vegas...on the taxpayer’s dime." Barack Obama
They're scared because.....
Submitted by almostacowboy on Wed, 04/11/2012 - 10:35am.
"People won't act the way I think they should." (resisting gag reflex).
This is spot on. I love
Submitted by VBaxter on Wed, 04/11/2012 - 12:51pm.
This is spot on. I love Stossel, he wants everyone to be free to do whatever they want in their lives. Unfortunately the current "Republican" position is keep drugs, gambling, prostitution, and a whole lot of other things illegal, even though we know prohibition doesn't work.
Stossel is a great voice - and force - for individual liberty. I hope one day this country can embrace it. Only a few today want universal freedom.
Ron Paul 2012
A Republic and Individual Freedom
Submitted by Kingfish17 on Wed, 04/11/2012 - 1:06pm.
A limited federal government, as established by our founders and the constitution, provides for an environment where individual freedom can flourish. The states were given the power and authority to regulate areas that you refer to, VBaxter. The so called "Vice Crimes" would be legal where the majority in their local community or state wanted them legal, much like prostitution is legal in most of Nevada and some drugs have been decriminalized in California and other states.
Now which political party do you think has done the most damage to the constitution and is in favor of concentrating more power to the federal government?
"You can’t go take a trip to Las Vegas...on the taxpayer’s dime." Barack Obama
Well the answer you're
Submitted by VBaxter on Wed, 04/11/2012 - 1:41pm.
Well the answer you're looking for is Republican, but I would have to disagree. I think both parties have equally destroyed the Constitution.
I see what you are saying, but nonetheless, I would 100% vote Republican over Democrat (see: Ron Paul, Rand Paul, etc.). Then, again, this year I'm not voting for Romney if he becomes the nominee, since he goes even further than drugs and prostitution. He supports the NDAA, the Patriot Act, and doesn't even talk about cutting executive departments and programs, regulations, and taxes.
Again, I see what you are saying, but we must not forget liberals and the Democratic Party are far worse when it comes to destroying the Constitution. They hate fiscal freedom and a lot of liberals are actually not on board with legalizing prostitution, drugs, etc. (see: Obama).
If there's one party (of the two) that can change towards actually being 100% Constitutional, it's the Republican Party, so I hope we can keep fighting to change the party's platform, away from big government liberal policies that they cherish so much.
Ron Paul 2012
How can you perfer?
Submitted by Kingfish17 on Wed, 04/11/2012 - 2:08pm.
How can you prefer Obama over Romney? I would agree that the Dems are worse, when it comes to destroying the constitution. If one party can be moved towards being a constitutional party, it's the Republicans. Comprehensive individual freedom and rights are not guaranteed by the federal government. Those need to be fought for on a state and local level.
I saw that you liked Ron Paul, and there are many of his positions that I agree with. I would vote for Paul over Obama. I would vote for a turnip over Obama. For the life of me, I can't understand why a lot of Paul supporters will indirectly support Obama when it comes to a general election.
"You can’t go take a trip to Las Vegas...on the taxpayer’s dime." Barack Obama
~Because they're spiteful, immature little fops
Submitted by Wrathful Brunette on Wed, 04/11/2012 - 2:34pm.
Somehow Paul seems to attract holier-than-thou political purists who take pride in cutting off their noses to spite their faces.
That would be one explanation
Submitted by Kingfish17 on Wed, 04/11/2012 - 3:22pm.
Another possibility would be that these self-professed Paul supporters are actually stealth Obama supporters, visiting conservative political forums, and posting anti-Republican screed just to sew discord among Obama detractors.
I will give some credit to VBaxter because he actually had some negative things to say about liberals and Democrats. I hold out hope.
"You can’t go take a trip to Las Vegas...on the taxpayer’s dime." Barack Obama
~You never know..
Submitted by Wrathful Brunette on Wed, 04/11/2012 - 3:34pm.
..but after all the Paulbots I've run into on my conservative friends' FB Walls...bleh. These are people my pals know in real life, and they're true believers for Paul. So they're out there, for sure.
It's amazing the kind of loyalty a man with eyebrow toupees can still inspire..
http://americandigest.org/sidelines/2011/12/ann_barnhardt_m.html
OMG Bru!
Submitted by Seashell on Wed, 04/11/2012 - 4:44pm.
Eyebrow toupees?? That is so friggin' funny!
~Because nothing says "Presidential"
Submitted by Wrathful Brunette on Wed, 04/11/2012 - 8:16pm.
like caterpillars glued to your face.
Awesome, thanks
Submitted by Boudin on Wed, 04/11/2012 - 8:21pm.
I know a few folks who could use this.
Think I will send it over to Mike Church for starters
Who said I prefer Obama over
Submitted by VBaxter on Thu, 04/12/2012 - 2:07am.
Who said I prefer Obama over Romney? I just said I wouldn't vote for Romney. I would actually prefer Romney over Obama, but I'm still not voting for a big government liberal. I'll probably write in Paul in the end. I'm still thinking about it. But I'm no liberal, trust me. I don't see where you get the idea that I might be a liberal...
Just read my signature. The less government we have, the better.
Ron Paul 2012
Indirect Support
Submitted by Kingfish17 on Thu, 04/12/2012 - 8:38am.
If you don't vote for the Obama alternative, you indirectly support Obama.
And I love and agree with your signature. Indirectly supporting Obama, though, is the worst way to achieve your signature's goal. Who do you think Ron Paul is going to vote for? Is he going to write his name in when it comes election day?
"You can’t go take a trip to Las Vegas...on the taxpayer’s dime." Barack Obama
BHO thanks you
Submitted by Model850 on Wed, 04/11/2012 - 2:06pm.
Then, again, this year I'm not voting for Romney if he becomes the nominee....
Well that certainly is your privilege. Go for it.
I'm sure Barack Obama thanks you for your support.
So if I don't support a
Submitted by VBaxter on Thu, 04/12/2012 - 2:09am.
So if I don't support a liberal Republican, I automatically support a liberal Democrat? I don't understand your train of thought.
Ron Paul 2012
Didn't say that
Submitted by Model850 on Thu, 04/12/2012 - 3:21pm.
I didn't say you automatically support a liberal Democrat if you don't support a liberal Republican. Not directly, anyway.
The meaning of my comment should be obvious. You say you won't vote for Romney. I presume that means you're planning on writing in a vote for Paul. Paul has ZERO chance of winning on write-in votes. Therefore a vote for Paul effectively supports Obama as it is one less vote for the candidate who at least has a chance of unseating the current White House occupant.
So yes. Write-in Paul. And as I said, know that Obama appreciates your (indirect) support.
QED.
Baxter, ask yourself this simple question:
Submitted by SickofLibs on Wed, 04/11/2012 - 2:29pm.
Isn't the good of your country more important than personal feelings?
We CANNOT permit O-hole to have another four years. This is not just politics: he hasn't even finished his first term, and we are now about to embark on an effing race war the likes of which we haven't seen since the 60s. The 1860s.
And I am not a Mitt fan by any stretch of the imagination. Please don't sell us out.
I firmly believe that America's citizens deserve the ---
Submitted by matthewdean on Wed, 04/11/2012 - 7:44pm.
government they vote (or refuse to vote) into place.
It's just sad that oppositional forces end up in the cesspool as well because of the stupidity of those who happened to stumble into the political winners circle.
MD
Unfortunately, this country
Submitted by VBaxter on Thu, 04/12/2012 - 2:17am.
Unfortunately, this country has gotten so off track that the alternative to a socialist liberal Democrat is a big government liberal Republican. I'm not falling in line like the rest of you. I care about our Constitution enough to see past these two clowns. Romney is not even close to being a conservative. I don't care what he says, just look at his current positions, not even the extremely-liberal ones he had 10-15 years ago. Look at the positions he holds right now. Pro-Patriot Act, Pro-Federal Reserve, Pro-Department of Education, Pro-TSA, Pro-Income tax, Pro-nation building, etc, etc, etc.
Ron Paul 2012
OK, V Baxter - I have a
Submitted by killa37 on Thu, 04/12/2012 - 2:33am.
OK, V Baxter - I have a serious question for you - since you appear to be a very passionate Ron Paul guy. I'm over here in Asia/Hawaii - as 'signified' by Boy Baraka a few months ago. We call this place the 'People's Republic of Hawaii'. for obvious reasons. Anyway, I happen to know quite a few Baraka Obama voters in 2008 who are now sportin' (Obamaspeak) Ron Paul stickers on their cars, or supportin' Ron Paul . And I understand that it is somewhat of a trend over there in the 'real' USA too. I have actually asked a couple of them how the hell they could transition from Boy Baraka to Ron Paul - and I've never really gotten a coherent answer. But since you seem to be very on top of these matters, and a rock-solid Ron Paul supporter - especially with these clowns like Boy Baraka and Mittens Romeny running for the Presidency............maybe you can explain to me how this has happened???
How would I know? I never
Submitted by VBaxter on Thu, 04/12/2012 - 3:02am.
How would I know? I never liked Obama. I've been a Conservative since I got into politics, so I wouldn't know why Obama voters would suddenly support someone who wants to cut $1 trillion in the first year and end Obamacare, end the income tax, end multiple executive departments, etc.
Maybe the reason why they can't give you a coherent answer is because they have no idea who Ron Paul is and they are just bandwagoners who supported this "amazing Obama" and are now supporting Paul. Ron Paul is the most conservative, the only conservative, left in this race. That's the bottom line.
Ron Paul 2012
I don't care much for Romney, but I know a vote ---
Submitted by matthewdean on Thu, 04/12/2012 - 3:12am.
for him will at least cancel out a vote for Obama; as opposed to staying home, which will not.
MD
You hope we can keep fighting
Submitted by cocodrie on Thu, 04/12/2012 - 3:41pm.
You say that you hope we can keep fighting but you're going to turn tail and desert and run? What is your fighting gear?f Kilts and tennis shoes so you can --it and run at the same time?
Jesus Loves You so much He died for you
They were not really shouting for more govt. in my opinion.
Submitted by NeoKong on Wed, 04/11/2012 - 10:15am.
They were shouting because Obama said he would fix their govt.
The very same govt. that is spiraling out of control.
For example.
Scott Walker made some reforms in Wisconsin and he nearly wiped out the state deficit.
He is streamlining govt.
Governor Christie is doing the same thing in New Jersey by taking on the teacher's unions and out of control spending.
He killed the rail tunnel to Manhattan project which would have been a boondoggle.
They are making their state govt.s better.
Barack is doing the opposite.
He never promised to sign a 3,000 page bill to socialize 1/6th of our economy because he would have been run out of town.
He never said he would seize an auto company and give it to the UAW.
He never said he would try to tear down capitalism.
He was supposed to fix things and people believed him.
It was supposed to get better ...not worse.
He pulled a bait and switch.
People are asking for better govt. and not bigger govt.
That should be a campaign ad
Submitted by Tugboat Phil on Wed, 04/11/2012 - 10:41am.
He never promised to sign a 3,000 page bill to socialize 1/6th of our economy because he would have been run out of town.
He never said he would seize an auto company and give it to the UAW.
He never said he would try to tear down capitalism.
He was supposed to fix things and people believed him.
Also: He never promised to use federal agents to facilitate moving automatic rifles to Mexico, so they could be used to kill federal agents.
Where's that "Like" button?
Submitted by UpNorth on Wed, 04/11/2012 - 9:54pm.
.
And here in....
Submitted by almostacowboy on Wed, 04/11/2012 - 10:42am.
And, here in the Demokratik Republik of Kalifornya Gov. Moonbeam is pushing through high speed rail. The 2008 cost was promoted to be only $8.1B. After a "major reduction" of $30B, it's now only supposed to cost $98.5B. Not bad for a state that's already running a $16B deficit.
That's the bait and switch...
Submitted by c5then on Wed, 04/11/2012 - 10:49am.
"People are asking for better govt..."
That is the hidden trap that the people are presented with. Government will never be any better. It only gets bigger. What people should be asking for and presented with is smaller/less government.
Since government is a drain on the economy, less is better. The government should concentrate on doing the minimum possible. That is how the Constitution has it set up and that is what is being ignored by both parties.
We need to quit the big government, $3 trillion budgets cold turkey. There is no way to ease off of this addiction. But anyone who proposes an actual plan to do this and get back to an actual Constitutional Federal Government is called "crazy' and "extreme" by both parties "leadership".
Madison and Jefferson and Franklin built a Republic - Roberts killed it!
It's not about Obama or Walker
Submitted by Kingfish17 on Wed, 04/11/2012 - 11:17am.
The problem is with regards to our media and popular culture who created the myth of Obama and demonize the reforms of a Scott Walker. Obama got 53% of the popular vote, and that's with the absolute fawning coverage of both the news media and the popular culture media. If Scott Walker got the same treatment, he would get 80% or more of the popular vote.
"You can’t go take a trip to Las Vegas...on the taxpayer’s dime." Barack Obama
Three men, a Canadian farmer,
Submitted by ricklail on Wed, 04/11/2012 - 11:12am.
Three men, a Canadian farmer, an Arab terrorist and a retired
Marine master-sergeant are all walking together one day. They come
across a lantern and a Genie pops out of it. 'I will give each
of you one wish, which is three wishes in total', says the
Genie..
...
The Canadian says, 'I am a farmer and my son will also
farm. I want the land to be forever fertile in Canada '
POOF! With the blink of the Genie's eye, the land in Canada
was forever fertile for farming.
The Arab terrorist was amazed, so he said, 'I want a wall
around Afghanistan, Iraq and Iran so that no infidels,
Americans or Canadians can come into our precious land.'
POOF! Again, with the blink of the Genie's eye, there was a
huge wall around those countries.
The Marine says, 'I am very curious. Please tell me more
about this wall.'
The Genie explains, 'Well, it's about 5,000 feet high, 500
feet thick and completely surrounds the country.
Nothing can get in or out; it's virtually impenetrable. '
The Marine sits down on his Harley, cracks a beer,
lights a cigar, smiles and says,
'Fill it with water.
If that didn't make you laugh maybe this will:
http://a6.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/574521_10150656042642596_...
~Love it
Submitted by Wrathful Brunette on Wed, 04/11/2012 - 2:33pm.
!
The joke is funny but it is
Submitted by Dan The Man 2 on Wed, 04/11/2012 - 10:57pm.
The joke is funny but it is disjointed. This "The Marine sits down on his Harley,: does not jibe with this "Three men, a Canadian farmer, an Arab terrorist and a retired Marine master-sergeant are all walking together one day." So how does the marine have a Harley if he is walking with the other two?
They were walking the oval at a local school for---
Submitted by matthewdean on Wed, 04/11/2012 - 11:31pm.
exercise and just happened to finish up adjacent the hero's Hog.
Howzat?
MD
Off Topic
Submitted by Tugboat Phil on Wed, 04/11/2012 - 11:24am.
This IS an open thread. Just need to ask a question.
A while back there was mention of somehow using the letter "m" in the URL to make the page easier to view on mobile phones. I have a friend that could use this info, does anyone remember this tidbit?
Thanks in advance for any help!
It happens automatically for
Submitted by Jaxad0127 on Wed, 04/11/2012 - 12:45pm.
It happens automatically for me, which was annoying for a while as it broke images in the RSS feed (that was finally fixed).
easy
Submitted by OuttaMyWay on Wed, 04/11/2012 - 12:45pm.
m.newsbusters.org
Thank you!
Submitted by Tugboat Phil on Wed, 04/11/2012 - 1:08pm.
That's about the only thing I didn't try.
Here is something disturbing for you to chew on
Submitted by Mary Louise Turner on Wed, 04/11/2012 - 1:12pm.
I find it highly discouraging that almost half of the American sheeple still approve of Ears' performance, in spite of the economy from hell and an disgraceful foreign policy. Worse still, it looks more and more likely that he'll be re-elected in November (yes, I know it's only April 11). Are the sheeple really that stupid, or do they really like the puerile "class warfare" garbage being spoon-fed to them by the MBM?
Hi Mary
Submitted by bkeyser on Wed, 04/11/2012 - 3:01pm.
On thing I always look for when some poll makes headlines is the sample. If you're referring to the latest ABC/WaPo Poll, which showed Obama holding a 7 point lead (I think it was) over Romney, the sample was skewed 11 points for Dems.
Another thing to keep in mind is that any poll that refers to "adults" as those polled, is garbage. At this point in campaign season, polls should at least be polling "registered voters" but the most accurate pollsters will poll "likely voters." Soon, any poll outside of "likely voters" should be considered suspect.
Finally, if you can't find a detailed sampling for a poll, ignore it. Sometimes you've got to do some drilling to get there, but every reputable pollster will link to it or include it in the addenda, even if they skew the sample.
I wouldn't worry too much at this point.
Take Heart, Mary
Submitted by Blonde on Wed, 04/11/2012 - 3:26pm.
The smartest man on the planet has been spiked again....check out MOTUS today. Apparently The Won tweeted about his new "Buffett Rule", and of course, the conservies strike back, as they did with his Attack Watch site.
Some of the tweets are hilarious. Like this one (for The Vet)
Always skip the salad. It takes up valuable meat space. #BuffetRule
And of course, other Tweeters tell Baracky how the money from the BuffetRule should be spent.
Almost half your vacations
Handy Reference Guide to Obama's Gaffes and Goofs ~ Currently Numbering 200 (and Counting)
"almost half of the American
Submitted by Dan The Man 2 on Wed, 04/11/2012 - 11:01pm.
"almost half of the American sheeple" pay no taxes and most likely get subsidies. So a good portion are invested in the gimmies and the rest are true believers.
Social justice for Trayon
Submitted by ricklail on Wed, 04/11/2012 - 3:07pm.
Wah Po is reporting that George Zimmerman will be charged. It is being done to satisfy the unreverend Al and Jesse and the Black Pantheres
http://moonbattery.com/?p=10414
This was also done to the DOOK Lacrosse Team to satisfy Al and Jesse along with the DOOK faculity.
I hope Zimmerman's left the country
Submitted by Blonde on Wed, 04/11/2012 - 3:27pm.
He shouldn't have to perform in a show trial to assuage liberal guilt.
Handy Reference Guide to Obama's Gaffes and Goofs ~ Currently Numbering 200 (and Counting)
~I know I wouldn't be wild about turning myself in
Submitted by Wrathful Brunette on Wed, 04/11/2012 - 3:36pm.
and hoping for justice, in his shoes. Too many people simply want his blood, and if they don't get it, they'll settle for someone else's.
Word on Zimmerman
Submitted by bkeyser on Wed, 04/11/2012 - 5:35pm.
Coming across twitter: He's being charged with 2nd degree murder and he's in custody.
Based on what we currently
Submitted by Free Stinker on Wed, 04/11/2012 - 5:44pm.
Based on what we currently know, I doubt they'll get a conviction. I suspect the DA is trying to scare him into a Plea bargin.
/// Sarah Palin Fan since July 11, 2007 /// خال
Looking forward to this
Submitted by Kingfish17 on Wed, 04/11/2012 - 5:48pm.
If it goes to trial, I hope it's televised. It will be bigger then OJ. It will probably cause a new boom in tech because of all the infrastructure that will need to get built out to support all the streaming video.
"You can’t go take a trip to Las Vegas...on the taxpayer’s dime." Barack Obama
Bold Call
Submitted by Kingfish17 on Wed, 04/11/2012 - 5:47pm.
We'll find out how reliable "twitter" is shortly.
"You can’t go take a trip to Las Vegas...on the taxpayer’s dime." Barack Obama
I saw the same
Submitted by NOLAgirl on Wed, 04/11/2012 - 6:00pm.
MSNBC...
Good twitter feed info by bkeyser
Submitted by Kingfish17 on Wed, 04/11/2012 - 6:07pm.
Nice early info. Any tips on who's going to win the 8th at Belmont?
"You can’t go take a trip to Las Vegas...on the taxpayer’s dime." Barack Obama
Press Conference under way
Submitted by Blonde on Wed, 04/11/2012 - 6:03pm.
She's sure a chatty one.
Handy Reference Guide to Obama's Gaffes and Goofs ~ Currently Numbering 200 (and Counting)
i couldn't stand her
Submitted by Radical1979 on Wed, 04/11/2012 - 6:22pm.
She came out smiling like she was running for office, then had to comment on how hard all these people were working. She even mentioned that two of them took on the case despite how many other cases they were working on. She obviously has no idea of what is required when you work in the private sector.
Was anyone unnerved by her "Justice for Trayvon" reference?
Submitted by bkeyser on Wed, 04/11/2012 - 7:13pm.
I thought the idea of an investigation was justice, alone. She almost seemed giddy at the outset; of course that could have been nerves but I don't think that was entirely it. She was reading prepared remarks and spoke about her conversation with the [paraphrasing] 'lovely parents of Trayvon Martin' -or something to that effect.
I'm not surprised; it's the easy route to take for the State. Refuse to prosecute and you risk potential riots. Prosecute and you hope the anger dies down by the time it goes to court. And, if their evidence is as circumstantial and sloppy as I suspect it is, and the jury admonishes it and acquits George Zimmerman, it'll be their fault if and when riots ensue. It'll be interesting to see how this plays out.
Things to look for:
I still think he's innocent, but he may end up a martyr.
bk
Submitted by Radical1979 on Wed, 04/11/2012 - 8:54pm.
I believe the term she used in reference to Trayvon's parents was "sweet", completely inappropriate and unprofessional. I thought she was giddy too, and I call b.s. on her statements that we don't prosecute based on public opinion. This was an obvious play to the black community. You're right about her "justice for Trayvon" comments. Let's hope Zimmerman has justice, but I doubt it. I hope he's being held in solitary because I doubt they can keep him safe in the general population.
For some reason I think this will end in late October/early November.
Can you say "Acquittal" ?
Submitted by BEGRUNT on Wed, 04/11/2012 - 6:42pm.
2nd degree??? No way they can prove that. This is either an intimidation tactic (a stupid one at that), or they are just piling on. Either way, if he has competent attorney's, and a FAIR jury, he will walk. I just dont understand why they didn't go with a charge of "manslaughter". This WILL result in riots, and I think that is what they (race hustlers) are hoping for.
When the "facts" are shown in court, I dont think the jury will have any other choice but an acquittal. That is if the charge gets through the preliminary hearing..........
I read this earlier........"That sound you hear is Dr. Martin Luther King rolling over in his grave" It is a sad day for justice in the U.S.,.........appealing to the "Mob's" blood lust, for political gain. This unfortunately will result in people getting killed.
"A nation can suffer it's fool's, but cannot survive the traitor"
Cicero
BEG,
Submitted by Dave. on Wed, 04/11/2012 - 7:16pm.
Zimmerman couldn't get a "fair trial" anywhere in the northern hemisphere, 'cepting possibly Siberia.
And I have to tell you, if the eyewitness accounts I have seen are even remotely accurate, and someone was bashing my head into the concrete and telling me I was going to die, if I had a gun, they are going to get popped.
And I wouldn't give a rat's ass if they are green with friggin' orange hair, either.
-Dave
Vote for the American in November
I agree Dave...
Submitted by BEGRUNT on Wed, 04/11/2012 - 7:23pm.
If I had someone beating my head on the ground, threatening death I would have popped him too. The "facts" of the case, the witnesses, and now FINALLY we hear ALL of the 911 recording, it sure appears to me that the kid doubled back and ambushed him. Either way this will end badly.
"A nation can suffer it's fool's, but cannot survive the traitor"
Cicero
Martin/Zimmerman
Submitted by Jer on Thu, 04/12/2012 - 2:51am.
Martin may very well have doubled back--even that is pure speculation--but "ambushed" is nevertheless a misleading term in light of the fact that witnesses described hearing two individuals arguing with one another prior to the physical altercation. Of course, Martin could have thrown the first punch--an unexpected one--and if that's what you mean by "ambushed" it would fit better within the general scenario depicted by Zimmerman.
A few random observations:
--As noted in the neighborhood watch handbook, most break-ins occur in daylight hours between 8:00 a.m. and 5:00 p.m. when people are not at home. Martin was a lone individual walking alongside a regular roadway through a neighborhood during a time when most folks are home having dinner--not the typical m.o. for would-be burglars or the usual scenario for incipient criminal activity.
--The handbook repeatedly states that confrontations and apprehensions are the domain of the police, not private citizens. But it does seem that, considering all of the circumstances at the time, it would have made sense for Zimmerman to have at least made a preliminary effort to address Martin in some manner like this: Hi, I'm George Zimmerman..I've lived here for some time and know most of the residents...I haven't seen you before. Do you live here?...Are you visiting someone? ...Who?, etc. Depending on Martin's answers and/or his attitude and behavior, Zimmerman could have reacted accordingly. Instead, Zimmerman made assumptions and jumped to conclusions about "f-ing punks" and "assholes who always get away". The assumption that Martin was one of those contributed to the drama's awful ending.
--It has been reported both that Zimmerman was "patrolling the neighborhood" and that he was "on a personal errand". [Zimmerman's vehicle was not parked along the most direct route if one were exiting the subdivision.] Most neighborhood watch programs expressly proscribe the carrying of firearms by members during the course of their watch duties. There was no such written proscription in this case, however.
--Despite the foregoing--and considering his reaction upon hearing that Zimmerman was following Martin--it is likely the 911 operator, had he also known Zimmerman was armed, would have immediately and vigorously insisted that Zimmerman either leave his weapon in his truck or remain in the vehicle himself while waiting for the police [who had already been dispatched.] to arrive--most likely the latter since Zimmerman had a C&C permit.
--Listening to the Zimmerman/911 recording, it appears that he continued the attempt to follow Martin for a few more seconds after the emphatic "advisory" by the operator that he shouldn't. However, it is also possible that the heavy breathing which was a sign of Zimmerman's active and running pursuit momentarily continued after he had stopped while he was catching his breath.
--Zimmerman may have been returning to his vehicle, but the location of the physical altercation and its deadly conclusion was a short distance away from the roadway or walkway Zimmerman should have been traversing had he continued directly to his truck.
--Even assuming Martin decked Zimmerman with a surprise punch, straddled and pummeled him, it is still difficult to imagine Zimmerman not being able to at least temporarily push Martin off of him, unless his arms and hands were also pinned. And if that were the case, it is hard to understand how Zimmerman was able to unholster his 9mm and shoot his assailant in the chest.
--If Zimmerman had already drawn his weapon and there was an ensuing life and death struggle over its control, the self-defense justification would be far more sustainable, although it would concomitantly raise questions relating to when, where, and why the weapon was drawn. It also prompts the question of whether or not Martin knew about the weapon, and, if so, when he became aware of it--and whether that fact, in conjunction with the reality of being pursued in the night by an armed stranger, would have provided Martin a solid "stand your ground" defense had the outcome been the opposite of what actually and eventually transpired.
Jer
Random observations ---
Submitted by matthewdean on Thu, 04/12/2012 - 4:05am.
You are assuming that Zimmerman made assumptions and jumped to conclusions with his "f-ing punks" and "assholes who always get away".
He could have been referring to the totality of instances in his time as a neighborhood watch volunteer; not speaking directly to the current situation.
You also 'observe' that Zimmerman made these assumptions and said these things as if in direct violation of the neighborhood watch handbook - because he didn't approach Martin as per your preferred scenario - "Hi, I'm George Zimmerman...I've lived here for sometime...Whuzz up?" - as you apparently overlook the fact that Zimmerman was trailing Martin and had not made contact until the actual confrontation - reportedly caused when Martin doubled back and initiated it.
"--it is likely the 911 operator, had he also known Zimmerman was armed, would have immediately and vigorously insisted that Zimmerman either leave his weapon in his truck or remain in the vehicle himself while waiting for the police [who had already been dispatched.] "
"--Listening to the Zimmerman/911 recording, it appears that he continued the attempt to follow Martin for a few more seconds after the emphatic "advisory" by the operator that he shouldn't."
"Immediately and vigorously & emphatic advisory."
Ever the melodrama. Sounds like you are writing a script for a bodice ripper.
Your penultimate paragraph, while not being actually accusatory or condescending towards Zimmerman, makes it sound as though you haven't much experience in the way of fisticuffs, bar brawls, or down and dirty rough and tumble.
MD
Jer, many of your observations can be easily countered
Submitted by bkeyser on Thu, 04/12/2012 - 9:20am.
"Instead, Zimmerman made assumptions and jumped to conclusions about "f-ing punks" and "assholes who always get away". The assumption that Martin was one of those contributed to the drama's awful ending."
"Even assuming Martin decked Zimmerman with a surprise punch, straddled and pummeled him, it is still difficult to imagine Zimmerman not being able to at least temporarily push Martin off of him, unless his arms and hands were also pinned. And if that were the case, it is hard to understand how Zimmerman was able to unholster his 9mm and shoot his assailant in the chest."
See, you continue to fall into the "Yeah, he probably profiled Martin because he was black; he probably had shooting this guy on his mind from the moment he saw him" trap. It's clouding your judgement and has probably clouded the prosecutor's judgement as well.
bk.....outstanding
Submitted by BEGRUNT on Thu, 04/12/2012 - 11:41am.
synopsis! Jer, is a lawyer, and is looking at this from a "Public Defender" point of view. Jer, just curious, have you ever been in a street brawl? I have, many times over my years in the Sheriff's Dept. BK lays out the scenario, as I would have perceived it. Take your PD glasses off and review what BK said, with an open mind.
"A nation can suffer it's fool's, but cannot survive the traitor"
Cicero
You have more faith in people than I do
Submitted by Radical1979 on Wed, 04/11/2012 - 8:59pm.
Right now, I think they would convict if only the defense presented it's case.
J, She looks like an aging shemale to me
Submitted by Dave. on Wed, 04/11/2012 - 7:17pm.
Just saying.
-Dave
Vote for the American in November
Day-um, Dave, no wonder she decided to put ---
Submitted by matthewdean on Wed, 04/11/2012 - 8:04pm.
Zimmerman on trial - that face proves she is a lib.
MD
Anything less than conviction on Murder 1...
Submitted by Mary Louise Turner on Wed, 04/11/2012 - 4:28pm.
The make believe media and the leftist rabble rousers will only be satisfied if Mr. Zimmerman is convicted of first-degree murder, sentenced to death, and executed...Anything less and there'll be bloodshed or threats of it.
Mooch says she is more popular than DUH ONE
Submitted by ricklail on Wed, 04/11/2012 - 3:10pm.
Since DUH ONE views him self to be the messiah then that makes her more popular than Jesus. Where did I heard the before? Oh yeas it was that slime ball John Lenon
http://weaselzippers.us/2012/04/11/mooch-i-am-now-more-popular-than-the-...
Zimmerman is screwed
Submitted by Seashell on Wed, 04/11/2012 - 7:33pm.
"Just moments ago that we spoke with Sybrina Fulton and Tracy Martin, the sweet parents of Trayvon," Angela Corey, the special prosecutor investigating the case, said at a news conference in Jacksonville.
I guess the family of Zimmerman don't count. They, I am sure, are hurting as much as the family of Trayvon.
I just wonder how different this case would have been handled if Zimmerman were black and Trayvon were white. What if a bounty were put on the head of a "black" Zimmerman by a white supremacists group akin to what the black panther group has done. I suspect Sharpton and Jackson would be throwing a hissy fit.
The whole thing just stinks. Zimmerman is screwed no matter if he is innocent. "Innocent until proven guilty" has been thrown out the window for this guy.
I wonder if Zimmerman's "trial" , in an attempt to ---
Submitted by matthewdean on Wed, 04/11/2012 - 7:58pm.
forestall rioting and bloodshed were he to be cleared, will be the reverse of the O.J. fiasco?
MD
For anyone, how can a fair jury be seated in Seminole county?
Submitted by UpNorth on Wed, 04/11/2012 - 10:03pm.
After the media circus that has taken place, there certainly aren't 12 people who haven't heard about this case, and if anyone says they can dispassionately hear the facts and decide, I'd have to conclude that a. they're liars or b. they're babbling idiots. Not to mention, Eric the Holder and the DoJ, standing in the background, telling anyone with two brain cells to rub together, that, the DoJ, will take a very dim view of any thoughts of innocent, and that they(the DoJ) are ready to step up and make sure justice is done.
Total irony
Submitted by jon_torlin on Thu, 04/12/2012 - 9:54am.
One thing Zimmerman should keep in mind, he's being eaten by his own, anyone forget that he's a registered democrat voter?
He probably turned himself in thinking he's going to get a fair trial(har har) among his democrat peers, especially after his (ex)lawyers told him, implored him, BEGGED him, not to talk to the prosecutor or anyone else and work with them so that they can protect him from EXACTLY what's going to happen to him now that he's in their clutches.
This is just the firing salvo of the race war to begin, and the prosecutor's unprofessional behavior is proof of that.
-Jon
LOL. Yeah, or the reverse of the Rodney King riots.
Submitted by SickofLibs on Thu, 04/12/2012 - 9:40am.
The community will come together and rebuild all the burned-out buildings, return all the looted contraband to the stores and then elect Reginald Denny mayor of LA.
Lakers lose! = RIOT
Lakers win! = RIOT