Ending the Great College Ripoff
He may have phrased it inartfully but Republican presidential candidate Rick Santorum is on to something when he talks about how college isn't the panacea that the media is always touting it as. While college can be useful for getting a job in fields which require professional certification, in many cases, students are being sold a bill of goods by universities who care more about making money than helping people get a decent-paying job. That's particularly true for certain majors and graduate degree programs.
In 2008-09, America's college and universities graduated 78,009 people with journalism degrees. For those graduates who could find a job in that field, they could expect a median starting salary of $35,800.
But most won't find a job in journalism -- the number of journalism jobs is projected to shrink by more than 6 percent from 2008 to 2018, a decline of 4,400 available job positions. That data lead The Daily Beast to put journalism at the top the list of the 20 Most Useless College Degrees (a list based on crunching numbers from the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics, the National Center for Education Statistics and Payscale).
The disconnect between job-market trends and the annual output of our colleges and universities is the subject of an important article today by Steven Malanga at Real Clear Politics. Malanga writes:
"Lately the efforts of a trio of advocates to sue law schools on behalf of unemployed graduates have gained much media attention," Malanga writes. "Eager, but out-of-work graduates make compelling figures on the evening news, especially when they are hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt and have passed the bar but are working in bars because they can't even get a job interview with a law firm.
"The lawsuits, alleging that the schools have been misleading students about their postgraduate employment prospects, have helped stoke a certain amount of indignation because job prospects for lawyers have been declining for years, yet law schools have continued expanding enrollments. Some schools have apparently lured students by advertising job placement rates for graduates of 90 percent or better, even though there is currently only one job for every two law school graduates in the country. If consumer advocates and government watchdogs can go after so-called for-profit and technical schools for misleading students about their job prospects, why not traditional law schools, too?"
Malanga roots for the law suits to result in schools deciding to "provide more detailed information about how their graduates perform in the job market," and says "the next target could well be university graduate programs that for years have been producing Master's and PhD grads for whom there is little or no gainful employment."
Schools marketing degrees that are near-worthless in the job market is a real problem -- and one that traditional colleges are wrongly trying to blame only on for-profit schools.
From one perspective, actually, traditional schools are doing worse by their students -- because, monetarily speaking, grad school at a traditional university is far more expensive than associate degree or night classes at a for-profit school like the University of Phoenix.
To be sure, college students - who are, after all, young adults - bear some responsibility to research future job prospects before settling on a major. But not to the institutional Left, which sees the reality of tens or hundreds of thousands of former students with massive student loan debt and bleak job prospects in their chosen field, and is pushing for student loan forgiveness as a solution.
Except that won't solve the problem. We would still have thousands of graduates whose education is basically worthless in the job market. And we will still have too many schools churning out too many people with degrees for occupational fields where the number of jobs is shrinking or growing too slowly to absorb all those graduates. Additionally, "forgiving" the student loans isn't really possible for the many banks which were counting on the money to be repaid when they lent it out in the first place.
The better answer is to require all colleges -- traditional and for-profit, private and public -- to be more transparent about the job market to prospective students, and to be more honest about what constitutes a "job placement" as many schools current count part-time or temporary positions as equivalent to real careers.
Then, if a student still chooses to pursue a degree in African lesbian studies or some other field where the job prospects are bleak, said student will have no one to blame when he or she is struggling to pay off student loans with a McDonald's paycheck.
- Matthew Sheffield's blog
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Comments
That was a really interesting article
Submitted by Blonde on Thu, 03/15/2012 - 3:46pm.
I was surpised to see Mechanical Engineering and Chemistry included in that list. But not to see the "softer" studies in the bleak job market picture.
Two of the business majors were unsurprising, those being the "soft" business of Advertising and HR. All of the "Arts" degrees (Fine arts, Fashion Design, Photography (??), Art History, Theater, Music, Arts) are predictable. And the "helping" or typically female majors...Psychology, Child & Family Studies, Nutrition, English, Literature...appeal to liberals in droves.
It's funny, for all of the Europe-envy Obama and the liberals have, they fail to understand that many of these countries identify career paths for their children at a very early age, there's the college path and the vocational path, and God forbid your kid doesn't make the college path....it's almost impossible to change it once the path has been identified. Nothing about equal outcomes in that model, is there?
Rick Santorum has it right, but the media will try to spin it, as they always do, to him being a home-schooling neanderthal. Typical.
Handy Reference Guide to Obama's Gaffes and Goofs ~ Currently Numbering 200 (and Counting)
Some more words on college
Submitted by Unsane on Thu, 03/15/2012 - 8:31pm.
And the "tracking" you describe has been going on in Germany for decades. And it has worked out for Germany, somewhat. Lately Germany's educational system has been shown in international rankings to be short-changing its students - and in Germany, as you might expect, it is pretty scandalous.
I was shocked that one degree in particular didn't make the list: education. That is about one of the most worthless degrees out there. Can anyone find for me a college or university in this country where education majors get ANY respect (or the education faculty for that matter)?
"CONSUMED DEMOCRACY RETURNS A SOCIALIST REGIME" - Slayer, "Fictional Reality", from Divine Intervention (1994)
Mech. Engr. Technology, not Mech. Engr.
Submitted by mom_rox on Fri, 03/16/2012 - 8:50am.
Way back when, at my university, the degree was Engineering Technology, and it was "understood" that students were in ET because they couldn't handle the ME requirements.
There's a big difference, but both are important skills
Submitted by GW on Fri, 03/16/2012 - 10:22am.
Engineering Techs typically aren't as good at the higher end math and physics. Techs are supposed to be better at handling hardware. Book-smart guys like me need folks that are good with their hands.
I wouldn't want to hire someone who was, quite frankly...
Submitted by Dave. on Thu, 03/15/2012 - 4:23pm.
...too stupid to do their own research into the job market trends in their chosen field before even enrolling, or at least before chosing a major.
Seriously, the Internet has been around now since most of these people were toddlers, and blaming their respective institutions of higher learning for having "misled" them is laughable, given the wealth of information that is readily available - not to mention free.
-Dave
Vote for the American in November
You would think with
Submitted by Scuba Dude on Thu, 03/15/2012 - 4:44pm.
You would think with Moooooooochelle pushing her "Lets Move" program and the anti-obesity campaign that Nutrition would be a gold mine!
I can see why Journalism is a useless degree, look at the way it is being "practiced" by the MBM. I prefer getting my info from other sources.
It is sad that Mechanical Engineering and Chemistry are on the list. I think those are areas the US needs to excel in amongst others.
At work, we've been joking about this
Submitted by GW on Thu, 03/15/2012 - 5:32pm.
I work at a Mechanical Engineering firm and we're growing. (I couldn't see the Daily Beast gallery.) Anyway, we were joking about useless degrees and how much people pay for college degrees that don't help them in the end. I'm at the point where I only advocate college as technical training (Accounting, engineering, medicine, etc.).
John Stossel wrote this article along the same lines, months before Santorum mentioned it.
http://townhall.com/columnists/johnstossel/2011/07/06/the_college_scam/p...
And here's another one:
http://endoftheamericandream.com/archives/is-college-worth-it
Another article (can't find it now) said something like, "How many lattes do you need to pour to pay off a $100,000 student loan? It's a trick question. You can't pay off that student loan!"
We were laughing at the time. We had no idea those same people would be occupying parks in just a few years.
Great post!
Submitted by Blonde on Thu, 03/15/2012 - 8:35pm.
Your latte joke......priceless!
Handy Reference Guide to Obama's Gaffes and Goofs ~ Currently Numbering 200 (and Counting)
Undergraduate education is too "dumbed down".
Submitted by drsamherman on Thu, 03/15/2012 - 9:03pm.
Like GW, I would only advocate a university education for students interested in serving in a technical, health care or scientific profession. Unfortunately, the rest of the "liberal arts" have become so polluted with horrifically bad scholarship and academic endeavors which my friend, a long-time full professor in a life science calls "self-perpetuating horsecrap". A few years ago, somebody (I think it was the Eagle Forum) published a list of classes and departments for conservative college students to avoid, based mainly on being a waste of credit hours and money. Quite frankly, I hope whoever wrote the article updates it, with a complete disclosure listing many of these courses as criminally negligent in providing any contribution at all.
Food For Thought
Submitted by ljacone on Fri, 03/16/2012 - 10:23am.
My undergraduate degree (2002) was in Computer Science, with the intention of being a software designer. Needless to say that didn't work out, and I ended up working as a document cataloger at a library. After a few years of that, I said the heck with it and went back to school, got a Masters of Engineering (read: non-thesis degree) in Electrical Engineering in 2006. I ended up getting an entry level engineering job (Instrumentation & Control Systems Engineer) right after I graduated and have been with that firm ever since (and I might add really enjoying it).
So I know firsthand about the potential uselessness of a degree. CompSci was overrun at that point with guys who wanted to be IT managers or web developers or dot-com startups who could go public and be zillionaires. So whatever jobs there were got snapped right up and a lot of folks (including myself) were on the outside looking in.
You should go to college to study something which you have an interest in or passion for. If the schools can be forced to provide accurate job placement data -- whether good or bad -- it will help inform that choice. But by the same token you are ultimately responsible for your own decisions and own your education and career path. If you truly "love" journalism then go to journalism school, but don't cry and kvetch when you don't get a traditional journalism job.
Also, as others have mentioned, the specific statement of "Mechanical Engineering Technology" suggests that its not Mechanical Engineers who have little prospects, but what we might call an ME "Designer" or "Tech." In my experience Designers and Techs are the ones who end up doing the CAD drawings, building spec sheets, etc., and are not qualified to do the actual engineering part of the work. Furthermore, if I am remembering correctly, Engineering Technology degrees are not sufficient qualifications for taking the Fundamentals of Engineering Exam (Engineer-in-Training/EIT), nor the Professional Engineer's Exam (PE).
This article also reminds me of an article from the Greenville News (SC) a few months back about how a lot of American students are choosing easier majors despite knowing that they have less earning potential and career options -- ie, dropping out of Engineering to take Literature. How pathetic! Look, if you can't hack Engineering, don't get some useless degree just to say you have a Bachelors! Go to a vocational school and learn a skill or trade which you can actually use to make money! Seriously, people!
not what I wanted to read this morning
Submitted by mom_rox on Fri, 03/16/2012 - 12:10pm.
My two older sons are planning to major in Computer Science because they love to program.
I'm glad you're enjoying your engineering work.
If it's any consolation...
Submitted by ljacone on Fri, 03/16/2012 - 12:59pm.
...my experience with CompSci dates to 2002. Once the collapse of the DotCom bubble was finished, I think there have been less folks entering that major and thus better chances at employment. And from others I have talked to, the field now has a lot of enterprising types in it -- folks who want to make the next Twitter or Facebook.
LOL
Submitted by GW on Fri, 03/16/2012 - 12:21pm.
Some of my classmates used to refer to an Engineering major as "Pre-Business."
That is, after they find out how hard engineering was, they would switch majors to business.
My business degree has served me well
Submitted by Blonde on Fri, 03/16/2012 - 2:27pm.
In order to make it into the senior level of any large organization, one has to be grounded in basic financial principles, understand accounting, and be able to "do" numbers.
Oddly, even back in the day, the business students were wildly afraid of writing papers (and I can only imagine that's not improved)....which always had me Happy!!! to be in that class where spelling and grammar and proper footnotes counted! So I'd also say a couple of writing classes are important as well.
As for these liberal arts programs, It's all well and good if that's what someone wants to do....but do it at junior college! Then learn a marketable skill like hydraulics repair.
Handy Reference Guide to Obama's Gaffes and Goofs ~ Currently Numbering 200 (and Counting)
A question for you, B
Submitted by GW on Fri, 03/16/2012 - 4:12pm.
How much would you say your business education served you vs. your hard work ethic and natural talent? I guess another way to phrase it would be, "How much did your classwork help your career?"
In the interest of sharing, I talked to a friend of mine who said he only used about 25% of his classes from his business school in his career. I went down the list of classes I took to get my engineering degree and my number was more like 75%. So, I can say that I couldn't at all do my job without first gaining the education I got through my classes. That said, the classwork only gave us the starting point fundamentals. The vast majority of what we need to be effective at our jobs is gained through on-the-job training.