For most people, late December conjures up images of Christmas trees, religious services, and year-end recaps.
That is not the case in Hollywood, however, where Christmastime seems to be Nazi time. That is especially true this year where six World War II films are being released almost simultaneously.
AP reporter Sandy Cohen details this strange phenomenon and delves a bit into its origins:
In theaters now are "The Boy in the Striped Pajamas," which tells the story of a forbidden friendship between the son of a Nazi officer and a Jewish boy imprisoned in a concentration camp; "The Reader," which stars Kate Winslet as a former concentration-camp guard on trial years after the war; and "Adam Resurrected," which follows a Holocaust survivor (Jeff Goldblum) living in a mental institution.
"Valkyrie," which opens on Christmas day, stars Tom Cruise as a German officer who heads up a plan to kill Hitler. And two more Nazi-oriented films open on New Year's Eve: "Defiance" stars Daniel Craig and Liev Schreiber as brothers who battle the Nazis from a secret hideout in the woods, and "Good" features Viggo Mortensen as an academic and novelist reluctantly enticed into the SS fold after he's approached to write some mild propaganda for the Nazi party. [...]
So why, during what's supposed to be the cheeriest time of year, this abundance of stories from one of humanity's darkest hours?
"Much of it is awards-driven," said Paul Dergarabedian, president of Media By Numbers, which tracks box-office totals. "Downer movies come out this time of year as a reflection of the fact that people are vying for Oscars."
Indeed, Holocaust-themed holiday releases have fared well with academy voters for decades. "Sophie's Choice," a December release in 1982, earned five Oscar nominations and a win for star Meryl Streep. "Schindler's List" was nominated for 12 Oscars and won seven _ including best picture _ after its release in December of 1993. "The Pianist" opened two days after Christmas in 2002. It was nominated for seven Oscars and won three, including best actor for star Adrien Brody and best director for Roman Polanski.
"These movies take you on an emotional roller-coaster ride," Dergarabedian said. "They're powerful, moving, and Oscar loves that."
The Holocaust and World War II are rich landscapes for exploring moral issues and human costs, and such stories resonate with filmmakers and awards voters alike, said Steve Pond, author of the 2005 book "The Big Show: High Times and Dirty Dealings Backstage at the Academy Awards."
World War II-themed movies have been winning Oscars since the year after the war ended, Pond noted. In 1946, "The Best Years of Our Lives" won seven of the eight Oscars for which it was nominated, plus a special award given to supporting actor Harold Russell "for bringing hope and courage to his fellow veterans" by appearing in the film.
—Matthew Sheffield is the creator of NewsBusters and its Executive Editor.





















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These hollywood types don't have
December 24, 2008 - 14:35 ET by Delsagreat faith in anything else but themselves. Christmas is not the celebration of a birth, but just another holiday.
Another event when people are out of school and yearning to get to the theater.
So much for Bing Crosby and White Christmas type movies.
We have elected a Black Marxist with No Hair on His Chest to the White House so these movies fit right in.
I will NOT be seeing any of them.
I can't stand Cruise any way.
He you go, Delsa
December 24, 2008 - 15:24 ET by BlondeMarley & Me.
The book was fabulous....the writer used to be a columnist for the Sun-Sentinel. John Grogan likes the screen treatment (he's in the obedience scene)....Owen Wilson, Jennifer Aniston, and of course, lovely South Florida.
Should be a winner.
Now...as to the Nazi flicks....yawn. Last good one I saw was Judgement at Nurnberg.
the movie was quite
December 30, 2008 - 11:31 ET by patmac49the movie was quite enjoyable....especially if you are a dog lover and even more so if your dog is a lab like mine...i could have sworn that that was my beloved pet in that movie...kind of sad at the end but such is life...and you are correctamundo..judgement at nurenburg was a classic...
You got that right
December 24, 2008 - 16:25 ET by RowaneI can't stand Cruises acting, almost as wooden as keanu reeves'. I don't go to any of the memory-sticks' movies at theater, I'll either wait for it on DVD or find it online somewhere.
If they can't make movies with SOME redeeming values I refuse to spend money on them.
Good Article
December 25, 2008 - 08:13 ET by misterbee241Here's a good article from Power Line on why Hollywood doesnt make pro-Americn war films anymore: http://www.facebook.com/ext/share.php?sid=41055002988&h=ToqP6&u=I_M_C
Maverick the Nazi Officer
December 25, 2008 - 14:06 ET by UnsaneGood point on Cruise. Besides, I haven't seen Valkyrie yet, and I possibly won't, but I'd be willing to bet a scene as such appears in the movie (in German with subtitles):
Hitler: "Nobody likes you von Stauffenburg because you are too dangerous!"
von Stauffenburg: "That's right!!! Mein Fuehrer, I AM DANGEROUS!!!"
:-)
"THIS IS YOUR FINAL WARNING!!! A WAR ON FREEWILL IS COMING!!!" - Nevermore, "Bittersweet Feast", from This Godless Endeavor (2005)
The Cocky Colonel...
December 25, 2008 - 17:07 ET by AgentAmericanHe probably stopped on his way to the getaway plane to jump on the couch thinking he just did Hitler...
"Sometimes you just gotta say...what the f**k!"
2010: A GOP Hill
Since we were allied with
December 24, 2008 - 15:12 ET by BuffNBoneSince we were allied with the communists for WWII, I'd say this is intelligentsia's way of telling us this was the last "good" war.
"Fighters are fun but bombers make policy"
Christmas for Hitler and Germany!
December 24, 2008 - 15:15 ET by Noel SheppardNBers,
Christmas for Hitler and Germany!
:-) ns
Funny! I'm still waiting
December 24, 2008 - 16:51 ET by rbosqueFunny!
I'm still waiting for Hollywierd to come up with anti-communist films. After all, there were more atrocities from Soviet Russia and China than fom Germany.
I guess I won't hold my breath.
Darkness at Noon
December 25, 2008 - 20:23 ET by UnsaneI wonder if we'll ever see film adaptations of Darkness at Noon or One Day In The Life Of Ivan Denisovich. Anyone care to place bets?
"THIS IS YOUR FINAL WARNING!!! A WAR ON FREEWILL IS COMING!!!" - Nevermore, "Bittersweet Feast", from This Godless Endeavor (2005)
→ Voss iss diss Baby?
December 24, 2008 - 18:01 ET by Cool ArrowDer Feuhrer doss not zay "baaayby"
Dick Shawn should have gotten Oscar for that movie.
Was! Nicht voss! Get
December 24, 2008 - 19:57 ET by NL207Was! Nicht voss!
Get it right, Fraulein.
LOL! 1:30 mark - "don't
December 24, 2008 - 22:03 ET by GregELOL!
1:30 mark - "don't be stupid, be a smawty come and join the nazi pawty!"
One of my favorite Mel
December 25, 2008 - 05:42 ET by Gary P JacksonOne of my favorite Mel Brooks flicks!
One of my favorite lines:
"We, the jury find the defendents incredibly guilty"
Noel...the Soviet Response...
December 25, 2008 - 17:04 ET by AgentAmericanhttp://www.youtube.c...
Right after that "wild" day with the German ladies in Berlin
They can bust a move as they sack a capital...
2010: A GOP Hill
Don't let this out!
December 24, 2008 - 15:54 ET by Anchor89I have been winning Oscar pools for years by picking the movies (and the actros, directors, etc) that had a Nazi theme. (i.e. Sound of Music vs. Dr. Zhivago) Don't let this secret out or else I will start losing!
This article chalks this up to the great themes of Nazi movies. Maybe. I always thought it was due to the heavy Jewish representation in the Academy.
I forgot about the Gay Socialists in Hollywood!
December 25, 2008 - 12:15 ET by Anchor89It's my theory that most of the Oscar voters in the Academy are Jewish, Socialist, or homosexual or some combination of the three. So, if you think like a Gay Jewish Socialist you will have a distinct advantage in predicting Oscar winners. It's not foolproof because some films are just so bad that no amount of pandering to the Academy will save them, but it will give you a distinct edge. For example, I haven't seen the movie "Milk," but whether it is any good or not, it WILL be nominated for an Oscar. Where prediction gets complicated is when more than one film panders to the Gay Socialists Jews. In those cases, I make my pick based on who has "paid their dues." Only after going through these filters do I actually make predictions based on the quality of work. Follow this simple three step process and you significantly improve your Oscar prediction success.
→ Milk? Of course
December 25, 2008 - 20:15 ET by Cool ArrowOf course Milk will win an Oscar (Meyer)
Throw in Nixon/Frost and you've got a sure bet.
<edit> Got to put a few bucks down on Meryl Streep for that movie about the Nun -vs- the Priest. (Only if the priest is portrayed as guilty of pedophilia, of course)
We were just talking about
December 24, 2008 - 16:28 ET by Chris NormanWe were just talking about this at a party the other night - nothing says "Christmas" like Nazis...
stop crying about the little things
December 24, 2008 - 16:41 ET by SQL_SamAre you actually saying that Christmas is turning into Nazi'sm becuase hollywood is putting out a movie about the Valkyrie plot to kill Hilter? Come on you guys are going a little overboard on this one. Guess what - Can't wait to see this movie, I'm a big WWII buff and remember hearing about this plot, that never got much attention. I also want to see "The Spirit" egads, what does that say about Christmas!! Santa is going to turn into a superhero and not care about delivering the toys to the ungrateful brats this year!! *rolls eyes*
I think you might be
December 24, 2008 - 16:54 ET by Chris NormanI think you might be overreading what this post is all about. It's just an interesting observation and I think that's all. I know others had noticed this ironic phenomena (see above).
"That is not the case in
December 24, 2008 - 18:41 ET by SQL_Sam"That is not the case in Hollywood, however, where Christmastime seems to be Nazi time."
Where is Tom Cruise's accent?
December 24, 2008 - 19:44 ET by mizflame98You'd think that Tom Cruise would attempt a German accent if he is suppose to play a Nazi officer. That is reason #1 why I won't see the movie. If they take such liberties of an obvious thing like accent, then who knows what other liberties they will take with the true story.
Perfect Demotivator for the Obama Administration
http://www.despair.com/government.html
Clark Gable refused to
December 25, 2008 - 08:17 ET by misterbee241Clark Gable refused to affect a southern accent for Gone With The Wind. But then, Cruise is no Gable. I doubt Cruise could pull of a credible German accent.
The move intrigues me. But as I do with most overpriced movies, I'll wait for it on the Encore channel. That's where I found Ghostrider (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0259324/).
One other thing - In the war
December 25, 2008 - 08:22 ET by misterbee241One other thing - In the war movies made during WWII, the uniforms were tailored and looked perfect. It seems from looking at the picture on the leading page that tailoring, like writing, is a lost art in Hollywood. Those uniform tunics fit like feed sacks.
In Casablanca, Conrad Veidt looked like he was poured into his Nazi uniform. And Van Johnson looked the same way in his Army Air Corps uniform in Thiry Seconds Over Tokyo.
You'd think that Tom Cruise
December 25, 2008 - 20:52 ET by motherbeltYou'd think that Tom Cruise would attempt a German accent if he is suppose to play a Nazi officer.
mizflame, do you think it would be more realistic if the Germans were talking to each other in heavily accented English????
IMO, they should either do the dialogue in German, with subtitles, or just in plain English.
I am uncomfortable with the strangeosity.
December 25, 2008 - 03:41 ET by JWFYou guys? Are you deliberately putting yourself at odds with the entire audience at NB? or all of the writers?
I feel sad because I actually put all of the tiny letters in to a coherent thought structure. Us guys call it a sentence. And Mr. Sheffield made one that said Sandy Cohen actually put it in print. Mr. Sheffield brought it to our attention. A lot of "us" agreed that yes, quite indeedly, it was the end of the year, looking at an Oscar nod, that seems to be the reason. Christmas just falls coincidentally at the end of the year.
Excuse us guys for going overboard.
Sincerely,
a Veteran of a 1000 psychic wars.
The true meaning of Christmas
December 24, 2008 - 16:46 ET by nkviking75I can't wait for the part when Adolf Hitler learns the true meaning of Christmas. </sarcasm off>
Welcome to the era of unity, you racist!
Given that fascism and
December 24, 2008 - 17:22 ET by R D HelmGiven that fascism and communism are nearly identical lefty ideologies, when are we going to be seeing Hollywood movies about the evils of socialism?
You know, like the Soviet invasion of Finland? Stalin's "Great Purge" of the 1930s? Mao's "Cultural Revolution?"
-Dave
Merry Christmas everybody!
Dave,
December 24, 2008 - 17:32 ET by Chris NormanIt's just that, well, not so long ago, communism was so tres chic ("Reds", anyone?). Too many of the lefties in Hollywood looked favorably on it and to highlight now how brutal it really was (and is) they'd have to acknowledge (at least to themselves) how terribly wrong they were. That's what so fries me about the left-wing - they treated communism like it was a "cool" trend.
I am waiting to see
December 24, 2008 - 17:54 ET by jdhawkI am waiting to see Hollyweird make a movie depicting our service members fighting the present wars of the United States in a deservedly respectful and heroic manner.
I've given up on Hollyweird ever making a movie showing what murdering thugs the leaders of the Soviet Union and China were and the godless travesty that is communism.
Good Point
December 25, 2008 - 12:20 ET by Anchor89Hollywood movies that portray Communists as bad guys are so rare (even in James Bond movies!) that when I saw Communists as bad guys in the last Indiana Jones movie, I was stunned. I tried to think of others and came up with Dr. Zhivago, and that's about it. Can anyone think of any other good movies that portray Communists as bad guys?
Kind of ironic, Cruise
December 24, 2008 - 18:36 ET by SlicksterKind of ironic, Cruise trying to kill Hitler, Hilter and homeboy L.Ron Hubbard had much in common. Perhaps he's acting out his " I hate my daddy" complex.
I never knew that the
December 24, 2008 - 18:44 ET by Chris NormanI never knew that the German Army took in such sawed-off little stumps like Tom Cruise... :)
Chris,
December 24, 2008 - 22:04 ET by R D HelmActually, there was one. (He is the short guy in the center of the photo)
His name was Gen. Helmuth Stieff. Needless to say he was a decidedly small-fry Nazi. :-^)
Stieff was implicated in the plot to kill Der Fuehrer, and was either shot or hung, I forget which.
-Dave
Merry Christmas everybody!
Chris -- well Hitler was
December 27, 2008 - 06:56 ET by Jack BauerChris -- well Hitler was decidedly small. And he only had one ball. The other is in the Albert Hall.
I was reading what was
December 24, 2008 - 18:40 ET by SQL_SamI was reading what was written: "That is not the case in Hollywood, however, where Christmastime seems to be Nazi time." Did I read that wrong?
You're reading too much into it
December 24, 2008 - 19:10 ET by Matthew SheffieldBoth this post and the story it's about are not implying anything beyond pointing out a simple fact.
Dances With Marxists
December 24, 2008 - 20:03 ET by j17ghsI had suspected that it was payback from not-so-gay groups for California's passage of Prop 8. After all, the Big Lie is that we are a nation of Nazis except of course for Hollywood, DC and other Marxist-dominated areas of the land.
Never mind that Hitler was a Marxist, admired by many in the Western world in the 1930s, including The New York Times and FDR. Had Hitler not broken the non-aggression pact with Stalin, Marxists would've been happy to let both of these maniacs conquer Eurasia.
Many brave U.S. soldiers died essentially in defense of Stalin, which is why today we have an uber-government that greased the skids for Obama (a/k/a Dances With Marxists) to lie, cheat and steal his bad self into the House of Color (formerly, the White House).
'Dances with Marxists' Oh, I
December 24, 2008 - 20:17 ET by choselife3x'Dances with Marxists'
Oh, I am SO borrowing that. GENIUS, I tell you, GENIUS.
(will give you full credit)
In order to be pro-choice, one must first be born. Ah, the irony.
Nonsense
December 24, 2008 - 21:33 ET by JerNever mind that Hitler was a Marxist, admired by many in the Western world in the 1930s, including The New York Times and FDR. Had Hitler not broken the non-aggression pact with Stalin, Marxists would've been happy to let both of these maniacs conquer Eurasia.
Other than the fact that Hitler did have some admirers in the United States and that the majority of those were on the political "right", where do you come up with this drivel?
And while I am certainly no apologist for the psychotic mass murderer, Stalin, inasmuch as the Red army was responsible for the liquidation of at least 7 of every 10 Wehrmacht soldiers killed in World War II, it might also be reasonably concluded that many U.S. servicemen survived because of such fact.
Jer
GD Jer, Hitler's admirers
December 24, 2008 - 21:53 ET by ConservativeRexGD Jer, Hitler's admirers were on the political right? Let me guess, you attended public school, correct?
Hitler's admirers were in order. Franklin D Roosevelt (there's a righty if ever there was one), John R Commons, John Dewey, Aldous Huxley, Marcus Garvey...I could go on.
But I think you get the picture, they all, every one, admired Adolph Hitler in one extent or another.
It was the old "right wing" that spoke out against Hitler and Mussolini from the beginning.
But I figure you won't let facts get in the way of a good story. So carry on.
Let me guess, you attended
December 24, 2008 - 23:09 ET by JerLet me guess, you attended public school, correct?
You could have guessed public or private and still been correct, CR...but I had already learned to read at home. And speaking of reading, you might consider devoting a little more attention to the practice. Your grasp of history is, to say the least, remarkably loose.
Obviously, you did allow the facts to get in the way of your story. You managed to stumble all over them.
Jer
Jer, I would say that your
December 25, 2008 - 00:22 ET by ConservativeRexJer, I would say that your brainwashing has been a complete success!
My facts are just that.
Merry Christmas, and a Happy New Year!
Well, at least it's nice to
December 25, 2008 - 00:33 ET by JerWell, at least it's nice to be associated with success. :-)
Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year to you, too, CR.
Jer
Jer, NAZI is contraction
December 25, 2008 - 04:41 ET by JWFIt is German. Nazionalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei (National Socialist German Workers' Party).
Pick up a history book. Hitler & the Nazi party WERE socialists. Socialism lies on the left.
You make yourself look foolish when you make statements condemning others with false claims.
Sincerely,
a Veteran of a 1000 psychic wars.
JWF...
December 25, 2008 - 05:19 ET by JerIt is German. Nazionalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei (National Socialist German Workers' Party).
Duh...Thanks for that brilliant insight, JWF. Next week maybe you can instruct me on why George Washington was known as the "Father of Our Country."
I probably have picked up and read more history books than you have brushed past in a library or bookstore during your entire lifetime.
Tell me what statements I have made "condemning others with false claims." Please be specific. Thanks.
Jer
Here is the specific
December 26, 2008 - 01:45 ET by JWFthe majority of those were on the political "right",
No, they were on the left. Socialists and Communists loved Hitler. Not the right.
You knew Hitler was a product of the left. So much so that you started with a big fat "Duh" in your reply.
Yet you got testy with me knowing that you put his admirers on the right. Stating something you know to be false is propaganda. You sir are a propagandist.
where do you come up with this drivel?
You implied j17ghs was spewing drivel when in fact he was stating a well informed opinion. The left loved Hitler, Mussolini, and Stalin. They only turned on Hitler when he invaded Russia.
You condenmed j17ghs by inplying he was spewing drivel (lying) when in fact you lied (saying the majority of Hitlers admirers were on the right).
Sincerely,
a Veteran of a 1000 psychic wars.
First of all, let's get
December 26, 2008 - 19:55 ET by JerFirst of all, let's get something straight: I didn't accuse anyone of lying. I did--and, in fact, still do--believe that portions of j17ghs' post were nonsense, i.e. drivel; and expressed this opinion in my initial response. That does not constitute, either explicitly or implicitly, a charge of "lying". And if you are unable to grasp that elemental distinction, any attempt to engage in a constructive exchange with you on this topic would seem profoundly futile.
No, they were on the left. Socialists and Communists loved Hitler. Not the right.
Baloney.
You knew Hitler was a product of the left. So much so that you started with a big fat "Duh" in your reply.
I know no such thing (Hitler a product of the left), because "such thing" isn't true. I do know, and have known for many years, that the word "NAZI" stood for the National Socialist German Workers' Party, and have generally assumed this to be common knowledge [sort of like the answer to the initial "gimme" question on So You Want To Be A Millionaire]--thus the reason for my big fat "Duh".
Stating something you know to be false is propaganda. You sir are a propagandist.
Wrong. "Stating something you know to be false" is lying. And I have not lied.
You implied j17ghs was spewing drivel when in fact he was stating a well informed opinion. The left loved Hitler, Mussolini, and Stalin. They only turned on Hitler when he invaded Russia.
You condenmed j17ghs by inplying he was spewing drivel (lying) when in fact you lied (saying the majority of Hitlers admirers were on the right).
Please refer to my words at the beginning of this post. Furthermore, I acknowledge j17ghs was stating his opinion, but dispute its historical accuracy and, as such, was not well informed. [In fact, my criticism extends to much of what j17ghs alleges in all three paragraphs of his post, although I certainly concur with his observation that "many brave U.S. soldiers died...."]
Jer
Fascism is a product of the left. Stop your propaganda.
December 27, 2008 - 01:33 ET by JWFIt is obvious what the fraudulent issue of fascism versus communism accomplishes: it sets up, as opposites, two variants of the same political system; it eliminates the possibility of considering capitalism; it switches the choice of “Freedom or dictatorship?” into “Which kind of dictatorship?”—thus establishing dictatorship as an inevitable fact and offering only a choice of rulers. The choice—according to the proponents of that fraud—is: a dictatorship of the rich (fascism) or a dictatorship of the poor (communism).
That fraud collapsed in the 1940’s, in the aftermath of World War II. It is too obvious, too easily demonstrable that fascism and communism are not two opposites, but two rival gangs fighting over the same territory—that both are variants of statism, based on the collectivist principle that man is the rightless slave of the state—that both are socialistic, in theory, in practice, and in the explicit statements of their leaders—that under both systems, the poor are enslaved and the rich are expropriated in favor of a ruling clique—that fascism is not the product of the political “right,” but of the “left”—that the basic issue is not “rich versus poor,” but man versus the state, or: individual rights versus totalitarian government—which means: capitalism versus socialism.
“‘Extremism,’ or The Art of Smearing,”
Capitalism: The Unknown Ideal, 180.
Hitler was a socialist -duh
Hitler was a fascist - duh
Fascism & Socialism products of the left - duh
Jer unable to accept the truth despite getting hit over the head with it repeatedly - duh
Sincerely,
a Veteran of a 1000 psychic wars.
I've read all of these
December 27, 2008 - 02:36 ET by JerI've read all of these arguments--or similar variations thereof--previously, JWF. They make a persuasive case that there are indeed parallels between totalitarian, statist, and collectivist systems. So what? That's neither a stunning revelation, nor the issue in dispute. And, regarding the latter point, it is considerably weaker, and ultimately fails, in disposing of the left vs. right dichotomy. Reread Unsane's post for a very simple, comprehensible explanation.
And then mull over the following questions:
1. What were Hitler's views on communists and Bolsheviks?
2. Who were the contesting forces in the Spanish Civil War which began around 1936?
3. On which side did Hitler intervene?
4. What was the Abraham Lincoln brigade? Was it composed primarily of leftists or rightists? On which side did it fight in the Spanish Civil War?
5. In your view, is it even possible for a right-wing dictatorship or totalitarian state to exist? If so, provide a couple of examples. As a corollary, what are the indicia of a right-wing dictatorship? Did Hitler's Third Reich exhibit any of those characteristics?
6. Find me one sliver of evidence, a quote, or citation, indicating that FDR was an admirer of Hitler. [After all, that was the original charge (and what I labeled nonsense)--that Roosevelt, among other leftists, held the German dictator in very high regard.]
7. Do you consider the racist and racialist views of the Klan and other white supremacist groups to be far right or far left? Do they differ from Hitler's views or are they essentially symmetrical?
I look forward to your responses.
Jer
1. Hitler and the SS were
December 27, 2008 - 04:27 ET by Carl Kolchak1. Hitler and the SS were very anti-communist, and after the Wehrmacht would win victories, the SS would come in and round up the Jews, Communists, and any other persons they deemed inferior. Slavs were viewed as inferior as well, and fortunatley for the world, Hitler and the SS were too stupid to realize those people would have allied with them, since most of them hated Stalin.
2. The Republicans versus the Nationalists. Very horrific civil war, that was a prelude to WW2 in the fact the Nazis and Soviet Communists were heavily involved in the outcome.
3. Hitler sided with the Nationalists, who in turn remained nuetral during WW2.
4. A Communist organization.
7. I would say the Klan is probably more right wing extremist. Many similarities in regards to race hating and religion hating as the Nazis. A garbage organization with many of the same similarities of Farrakhan and his fan club in my opinion.
One important thing to
December 27, 2008 - 04:48 ET by Carl KolchakOne important thing to remember about the Spanish Civil War, is that afterwards the Nazis and Soviets signed the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact which was a non-agression pact which allowed both countries do pretty much do what they wanted to do with Europe. The Soviets took over Finland, Lithuiania and Estonia, and didn't treat those that they conquered very well. Also the Soviets were "allied" with the Nazis in the attack on Poland.
Also, since Germany wasn't supposed to have an army they did training in Russia as well.
Carl... Hitler and Stalin
December 27, 2008 - 05:04 ET by JerCarl...
Hitler and Stalin neither liked nor trusted one another. Any "alliance" was purely figurative in nature, and permitted an interregnum where each despot could pursue his and his nation's own strategic interests--whether it was designs on Poland, the pursuit of other territorial objectives, or the need to accelerate rearmament.
Jer
Yes, neither of them
December 27, 2008 - 05:09 ET by Carl KolchakYes, neither of them trusted each other, and it was obvious that it was just a matter of time before they went to war with each other. Stalin supported the Republicans in the Spanish Civil War, and the Soviets were also sending many important supplies to the Nazis prior to Operation Barbarossa being luanched. The Finnish also had some SS units that assisted the Nazis on the Eastern Front. They were involved with the Siege of Lenningrad which was a horrific siege.
The Finnish also later fought against the Nazis, so the Finnish fought against both the Soviets and Nazis and after WW2 paid back the US for their Marshal Plan loan. Way to go Finland!
I like Finland,
December 27, 2008 - 05:17 ET by RESTLESS 1My favorite band is from Finland.
Edit: I like this song too.
"This
liberal would be all about socialize -- uh, uh, would be about
basically taking over and the government running all of your companies."-Maxine Waters 2008
More Finnish metal
December 27, 2008 - 07:19 ET by UnsaneCool! But what about these Finns? (With the old lead vocalist here)
"THIS IS YOUR FINAL WARNING!!! A WAR ON FREEWILL IS COMING!!!" - Nevermore, "Bittersweet Feast", from This Godless Endeavor (2005)
I like Nightwish
December 28, 2008 - 02:09 ET by RESTLESS 1but when it comes to female singers, I still like Italian.
"This
liberal would be all about socialize -- uh, uh, would be about
basically taking over and the government running all of your companies."-Maxine Waters 2008
Let's bring in the Netherlands while we are at it
December 28, 2008 - 21:46 ET by UnsaneMy two words for Cristina Scabbia: ti amo. :-)
But now that I see you have toured Finland and Italy, have you been to the Netherlands to perhaps go on a Dutch date?
"THIS IS YOUR FINAL WARNING!!! A WAR ON FREEWILL IS COMING!!!" - Nevermore, "Bittersweet Feast", from This Godless Endeavor (2005)
Jer It's hardly original
December 27, 2008 - 06:52 ET by Jack BauerJer
It's hardly original on my part to point out that it it not necesary for alliances to be built on nations "trusting" each other.
Nations only have interests. Some more long-lasting than others. Who could have guessed back in 1778 that America's most enduring alliance would turn out to be between the evcntual independent nation and Great Britain, and not France?
The Nazi-Communist pact was instrumental in starting WW2 proper. That would be the invasion of Poland, and the declaration of war by Great Britain.
So they where both in it for themselves, for their nown interests. Well yes. Only Stalin was actually shocked by Hitler's betrayal. Imagine that.
Saying this was a figurative alliance seems a distinction without a difference.
You're right, Jack... I
December 27, 2008 - 07:22 ET by JerYou're right, Jack...
I think my description was a little clumsy. Maybe we can address it further when I return after a visit with Mom over the weekend.
Hold down the fort,
Jer
Good answers, Carl... I
December 27, 2008 - 05:43 ET by JerGood answers, Carl...
I might quibble a little re. #4. Abraham Lincoln brigade was clearly dominated by communists, socialists, and other various and sundry "liberal/left" elements, but, at least nominally, calling it "A Communist organization" might be a slight stretch.
Jer
Jer you surely can't mean a
December 27, 2008 - 05:51 ET by Carl KolchakJer you surely can't mean a Vanderbilt grad and a Tennessee grad are agreeing on things are you? You do know that we must start disagreeing on things and not liking each other. It's part of that rivalry thing don't you know. haha.
Well, it's pretty late my time. Hope you have a Happy New Year, and your health is good.
Best Regards
Show me, prove to me, enlighten me, entertain me.
December 27, 2008 - 04:27 ET by JWF1. I'm not your google monkey. You got a question, google it yourself.
2. I'm not your google monkey. You got a question, google it yourself.
3-7. I'm not your google monkey. You got a question, google it yourself.
It is your head that is on backwards. You want to prove that is how heads are supposed to be, do it. Don't expect me to spend hours of my time researching your silly questions for the sole purpose of entertaining you and your silly questions.
Sincerely,
a Veteran of a 1000 psychic wars.
Your response is even more
December 27, 2008 - 04:54 ET by JerYour response is even more juvenile than I anticipated. Those who possess even a rudimentary knowledge of the subject-matter would have been able to answer most, if not all, of these questions--or to provide informed opinions where appropriate--with very little effort.
Not only is attempting to have a productive dialogue with you an utter waste of time, but you also lack the integrity to apologize or at least retract the false accusations you made in your earlier post.
Enough of this. Time to move on.
Jer
I was attempting to refine my post, but you had already replied
December 27, 2008 - 06:29 ET by JWF1. I'm not your google monkey. You got a question, google it yourself.
2. I'm not your google monkey. You got a question, google it yourself.
3-5. I'm not your google monkey. You got a question, google it yourself.
6. You slammed this entire quote as drivel -
Never mind that Hitler was a Marxist, admired by many in the Western world in the 1930s, including The New York Times and FDR. Had Hitler not broken the non-aggression pact with Stalin, Marxists would've been happy to let both of these maniacs conquer Eurasia.
Now you are claiming the "and FDR" part is what you took issue with. You claimed it all as drivel. Admittedly, this is the weakest part of that argument. FDR admired Mussolini, Hitler admired FDR, FDR loved Stalin, Mussolini loved all. But no, FDR is not on record for lovey dovey smooches to Hitler. So let's drop the weak part.
Never mind that Hitler was a Marxist, admired by many in the Western world in the 1930s, including The New York Times. Had Hitler not broken the non-aggression pact with Stalin, Marxists would've been happy to let both of these maniacs conquer Eurasia.
None of that, not a word comes remotely close to drivel.
7. The left-right political spectrum does not include "crazy". Where is Charles Manson on the spectrum? Doesn't matter, the man is nuts. KKK - same logic.
It is your head that is on backwards. You want to prove that is how heads are supposed to be, do it. Don't expect me to spend hours of my time researching your silly questions for the sole purpose of entertaining you and your silly questions.
Sincerely,
a Veteran of a 1000 psychic wars.
Very clever Jer
December 27, 2008 - 04:53 ET by RESTLESS 1You are positing, whether you know it or not, that all hatred of races, (you pick which one, liberals are good at that), is a right wing idealogy. Then you expect us to argue from a defensive POV. WRONG.
While Hitler used Jews to further his ascent to power, and spread that hate to keep it, his views are not right wing.
In answer to one of your questions, Hitler intervened to further his own ambitions.
In answer to another, no, a totalitarian, dictatorian, or any other regime that consolidates power to the government cannot, by definition, be conisidered "right of center", as defined today. Power of the government, being that govt. socialist, communist, fascist, or any other "ist", is an idealogy of the left.
"This
liberal would be all about socialize -- uh, uh, would be about
basically taking over and the government running all of your companies."-Maxine Waters 2008
Jer,
December 27, 2008 - 05:06 ET by RESTLESS 1Since the klan were a group of democrats, do you really want to present them to prove your case?
"This
liberal would be all about socialize -- uh, uh, would be about
basically taking over and the government running all of your companies."-Maxine Waters 2008
Restless... This may come
December 27, 2008 - 05:37 ET by JerRestless...
This may come as a serious shock to you, but the Democratic party in the South has contained a significant number of right-wing extremists throughout its history. So the answer to your question is "yes, I really want to."
Jer
No doubt some were,
December 28, 2008 - 01:27 ET by RESTLESS 1but I still wouldn't be touting the democratic record on Civil Rights if I were you:
" In fact, since 1933, Republicans
had a more positive record on civil rights than the Democrats.
In the twenty-six major civil rights votes since 1933, a majority
of Democrats opposed civil rights legislation in over 80 %
of the votes. By contrast, the Republican majority favored
civil rights in over 96 % of the votes."
That kind of disparity does not lend one to believe that only "right wing extremists" in the south were to blame.
"This
liberal would be all about socialize -- uh, uh, would be about
basically taking over and the government running all of your companies."-Maxine Waters 2008
A circle, not a line
December 25, 2008 - 20:31 ET by UnsaneActually, while we all speak of Right and Left, when the two sides are taken to extremes, they look very similiar. Extreme Rightism (Nazism, fascism) and Leftism (Communism), though the pathways to each are wildly different, look and behave eerily similarly in reality.
"THIS IS YOUR FINAL WARNING!!! A WAR ON FREEWILL IS COMING!!!" - Nevermore, "Bittersweet Feast", from This Godless Endeavor (2005)
Now we're getting somewhere
December 25, 2008 - 23:06 ET by JerNow we're gettiing somewhere....you're absolutely right [meaning "correct"--well, in your case, meaning "politically" too :-)], Unsane.
Jer
Sorry Unsane, that is backwards.
December 26, 2008 - 01:53 ET by JWFNazism and fascism were products of the left. I took the time to read your post. Please read mine. Nazi's were socialists. Socialism and Communism gives all power to a select few, abling the rise of fascism. Extreme leftism (Nazism, fascism, Communism)
They look and behave eerily similar because they are eerily similar.
Sincerely,
a Veteran of a 1000 psychic wars.
Huh?
December 27, 2008 - 07:15 ET by UnsaneNazis were Communists? Someone might have wanted to inform the SA of that fact back in the 1920s and the 1930s. They might have been much nicer to the KPD members they beat up and engaged in street fights with.
In the simplest sense, in communism, the state owns everything (a stage before we get to a happy utopia where not even government is necessary, or so Marx would have us believe). In Nazism/fascism, people can and do in fact own businesses and private property - the difference being that the State tells people constantly what to do with it.
"THIS IS YOUR FINAL WARNING!!! A WAR ON FREEWILL IS COMING!!!" - Nevermore, "Bittersweet Feast", from This Godless Endeavor (2005)
What is wrong with you? You have to move up a level
December 27, 2008 - 12:43 ET by JWFRock stupid cannot begin to describe the level of stupid you have reached. Dumber than a box of rocks? No. Pick the stupidest rock in the box of rocks. You would need to move up to reach that level of stupid.
READ MY POSTS. I did not say Nazi's were communists.
Jer, NAZI is contraction
December 25, 2008 - 03:41 ET by JWF
It is German. Nazionalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei (National Socialist German Workers' Party).
I took the time to read your post. Please read mine. Nazi's were socialists.
Look at this. I am quoting myself from this very SAME PAGE! Oh my sweet heavenly lord, what is wrong with your friggin brain?
Sincerely,
a Veteran of a 1000 psychic wars.
In response to your juvenile temper tantrum
December 27, 2008 - 20:32 ET by UnsaneRock stupid cannot begin to describe the level of stupid you have reached. Dumber than a box of rocks? No. Pick the stupidest rock in the box of rocks. You would need to move up to reach that level of stupid. And completely, utterly immature describes you here.
If you wish to engage me further on this issue, you should be advised you are and will continue with one who is more...shall we say...academically versed on these matters than you are, as is shown by your posts here. So, if you wish to behave in a juvenile manner as such here, please do, and I will be happy to respond by embarrassing the living hell out of you.
READ MY POSTS. I did not say Nazi's were communists. No, but YOU DID SAY that fascism is a product of the Left. False. Nazism is but an even more radicalized, nationalistic form of fascism, replete with racist ideology. Fascism, and Nazism, and my personal favorite, reactionaries, all lie on the far RIGHT. Thusly, my response was to point out to you that the SA wasn't exactly too kind with the Communists. If the Nazis were Socialists, as you claim, I'd imagine that they would find very stiff opposition from the SPD (the Socialists in Germany, then as now), and that the KPD would be at least OK with them.
And as evidence for supposed Nazi "socialism", you quote me their party name? What, was the German Democratic Republic a democratic republic? Is the Democratic People's Republic of Korea a democratic republic? Just because a word appears in a name doesn't mean it is so - a reality I figured out many years ago.
"THIS IS YOUR FINAL WARNING!!! A WAR ON FREEWILL IS COMING!!!" - Nevermore, "Bittersweet Feast", from This Godless Endeavor (2005)
I am not here to provide you with evidence.
December 28, 2008 - 09:23 ET by JWFThe evidence is out there for all to discover.
If you wish to engage me further on this issue, you should be advised you are and will continue with one who is more...shall we say...academically versed on these matters
Yes, I am more versed. Thank you.
This is why I don't argue with liberals any more. They don't listen. To admit they were lied to on this one tiny issue, which is propaganda pure and simple, is to admit they may have been lied to on other issues. To admit they have been lied to on other issues is to admit their worldview is based on fraud, and they cannot willingly let that happen.
I am not here to engage you or debate you. My sole purpose in life is to tell you that you are wrong when indeed you are wrong. Guess what. You are wrong. You are wrong because someone, somewhere has filled your head with propaganda.
The Nazi party had the name socialist in their name because they were SOCIALISTS. The Nazi party was formed at a time when socialism was on the march and was not proven to be the utter failure it is. So there was no stigma in using the term socialist in the name of the party.
Here is where I waste my time. I will make the effort here to provide you proof that that nazi party was indeed socialist. I know, I KNOW, this will of course be of ZERO value because it contradicts the propaganda you have been fed and would as I said require you to actually be open to the truth thereby changing your worldview.
The Nazi party had 25 points in it's political platform. Here are a few of those 25 points. (my bold)
7. We demand that the State shall above all undertake to ensure that every citizen shall have the possibility of living decently and earning a livelihood. If it should not be possible to feed the whole population, then aliens (non-citizens) must be expelled from the Reich.
10. The first duty of every citizen must be to work mentally or physically. No individual shall do any work that offends against the interest of the community to the benefit of all.
11. That all unearned income, and all income that does not arise from work, be abolished.
13. We demand the nationalization of all trusts.
14. We demand profit-sharing in large industries.
15. We demand a generous increase in old-age pensions.
16. We demand the creation and maintenance of a sound middle-class, the immediate communalization of large stores which will be rented cheaply to small tradespeople, and the strongest consideration must be given to ensure that small traders shall deliver the supplies needed by the State, the provinces and municipalities.
17. We demand an agrarian reform in accordance with our national requirements, and the enactment of a law to expropriate the owners without compensation of any land needed for the common purpose. The abolition of ground rents, and the prohibition of all speculation in land.
25. In order to carry out this program we demand: the creation of a strong central authority in the State, the unconditional authority by the political central parliament of the whole State and all its organizations.
There is more. Sounds a lot like socialism to me.
Socialism
1: any of various economic and political theories advocating collective or governmental ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods. (merriam-webster)
Yes. The DPRK is socialist. The use of the term democratic in the name is progagandistic. For you to use the juxtapostion of the 2 names is highly disingenuous. You are actually furthering the use of propaganda by socialists. It is called propaganda, LOOK IT UP!
Ok. Done wasting my time. Because I know that the liberal brain is incapable of learning anything that goes against their worldview.
Sincerely,
a Veteran of a 1000 psychic wars.
http://www.historyplace.com/worldwar2/riseofhitler/25points.htm
jwf,
December 28, 2008 - 09:55 ET by AgnosticNot to mention that if a person is allowed to own a business that is completely controlled by the state as posited above than that person is either a de facto member of the state or wholly controlled puppet. In either case the state controls the business.
It was once described to me as a horizontal line. If you go East then North you end up at what is referred to as the Conservative Religious Right: East then South becomes Libertarian. If you go West then North you end up at Fascism: West then South is Communism. While far from perfect it helped me understand the relationship in more realistic manner than I have ever been able to envision the various relationships.
A person may be won over with logic and reason but the masses must be bought with spectacle and platitudes. - 2008 Elections
You lose
December 28, 2008 - 21:58 ET by Unsane"The evidence is out there for all to discover?' I will accept this as your losing the argument. You whine in your post about how "this is why you don't argue with liberals". I hope for your sake you aren't calling me a liberal, because if you are, your credibility in this argument is GONE.
And it is quite ironic, considering you are behaving precisely like NB's worst Leftists. You throw out a wild assertion and then refuse to back it up, and respond to anyone asking you questions with temper tantrums.
And trust me, sweetie, I have forgotten more about history than you will ever know. But hey, if you want to keep walking down that path...
C&P all you want, but the fact of the matter is that the political scale of Right and Left is best rendered as a circle, with both Communism, which comes from the Left, and Nazism/Fascism, which comes from the Right, meeting at a point because both systems look and behave so similar to each other in execution. In Communism, the State flat out owns EVERYTHING, whereas in Nazism/Fascism, there is room for private property ownership (provided of course you do what the State says).
After all, why else does a riot break out when you throw Nazis/Fascists and Communists together in the same vicinity? Hint: it isn't because they both hail from the Left...
"THIS IS YOUR FINAL WARNING!!! A WAR ON FREEWILL IS COMING!!!" - Nevermore, "Bittersweet Feast", from This Godless Endeavor (2005)
Done with this idiot.
December 28, 2008 - 22:54 ET by JWFIt does not listen.
The nazi party had socialist in the title of the party. They clearly listed a socialist agenda in the 25 points of the political platform.
The only thing they did not do was walk over to unsanes house on stalins' birthday, ring the doorbell, and beat him/her senseless with a socialist stick while screaming "we are socialists".
Sincerely,
a Veteran of a 1000 psychic wars.
Think about it, Unsane...
December 29, 2008 - 23:41 ET by JerThink about it, Unsane....
because it must surely qualify for an all-time NewsBuster award in asshattery. This witless knave, who accuses you--someone whose conservative bona fides are beyond all dispute and on frequent display--of being some sort of feckless liberal, simultaneously presents himself as a credible authority on the historical distinctions between "left" and "right" ideologies [note: the original issue was Hitler and his supporters]. The irony is simply too rich.
I know it is tempting to "embarrass the living hell" out of this self-proclaimed psychic war veteran--and you probably better than anyone at this site is capable of doing so--but, why bother when he is doing such a bang-up job of it himself.
Jer
walks like a duck...
December 30, 2008 - 00:30 ET by JWFThis coming from someone who places Hitler and the Nazi party on the right where capitalism, the constitution, and the declaration of independence lie.
Or I could simply dismiss everything that goes against my worldview with a simple baloney or drivel.
I have a theory too! It is all one big circlejerk when it comes to political affiliations.
Oh and puhlease excuse me for not recognising the bonefides of 1 and/or 2 people who are utterly incapable of labeling a party that has the term socialist in their party name and a clear socialist agenda in the 25 points of their party platform as FRIGGIN SOCIALISTS! Please Please Please Please forgive me for not recognising the awesome blinding level of bonefide genious I have before me.
One final thing before I finish with you. It is psychic war.
adjective
1. of or having to do with the psyche, or mind
It is definitely a tax on the mind talking to people that absolutely will not listen because - and I quote - I read books. Like they are the only two on the planet that has managed wander across one. Magic that ability there. The ability to read. Oh please master, teach us too! Please?
It is a line from a song. Blue Oyster Cult. I would give you a link but I doubt you care.
Sincerely,
a Veteran of a 1000 psychic wars.
You heard it
December 30, 2008 - 00:32 ET by JerYou heard it here, folks...capitalism, the Constitution, and the Declaration of Independence are the domain of conservatism. Liberals apparently have no claim to them.
Furthermore, JWF, when you learn to distinguish between "drivel" and "lies", get back to me.
Jer
Are you joking?
December 30, 2008 - 00:52 ET by JWFThat is the core of conservatism. That is what they are CONSERVING - the principles found in the constitution and declaration of independence.
Capitalism is largely made possible by the freedom granted by the constitution.
: an economic system characterized by private or corporate ownership of capital goods, by investments that are determined by private decision, and by prices, production, and the distribution of goods that are determined mainly by competition in a free market
Liberals in the modern sense lie on the left where collectivism lies. This is anti-capital anti-constitution anti-declaration of independence.
So yes, yes, a thousand times yes, capitalism, the Constitution, and the Declaration of Independence are the domain of conservatism
What in the name of heaven do you think Bill Buckley was on about?
Sincerely,
a Veteran of a 1000 psychic wars.
JWF & All... Read what
December 30, 2008 - 00:55 ET by Clear thinkerJWF & All...
Read what people like Jer has wrought upon us. Warning: It's a very sad read... Waving Goodbye To America
Making Fun of AGW http://giovanniworld.wordpress.com/
Oh thank god.
December 30, 2008 - 01:14 ET by JWFI am glad to see another human here. I thought I was dropped off at the Minstry of Truth. "War is Peace," "Freedom is Slavery," "Ignorance is Strength." Liberals are on the right. Conservatives are on the left. Hitler was a conservative.
Sincerely,
a Veteran of a 1000 psychic wars.
LOL JWF.... You aren't
December 30, 2008 - 01:19 ET by bigtimerLOL JWF....
You aren't alone.
Not by a long shot.
"America isn't the problem...America is the solution." ~ Rush Limbaugh
JWF... No worries. You
December 30, 2008 - 01:38 ET by Clear thinkerJWF...
No worries. You are not alone. Most of us tend to ignore Jer, so it may seem like you were abandoned here, but not to worry.... we're on your side!
We real humans have to stick together.
Waving Goodbye To America
Making Fun of AGW http://giovanniworld.wordpress.com/
If you really are saying
December 30, 2008 - 01:29 ET by JerIf you really are saying that conservatives have some sort of exclusive license on the Constitution, the Declaration of Independence, and capitalism to which liberals in this country are not entitled--and that seems to be the case-- then this, combined with the assertions in your immediately preceding entry, is perhaps the dumbest and saddest post I have encountered in my year and a half at NewsBusters. But it does help explain some of the misguided nonsense of your earlier remarks.
Jer
Jer it is you blooming extremist liberals
December 30, 2008 - 01:39 ET by cocodrieJer it is you blooming extremist liberals who rejected the constitution, the declaration of independence, capitalism and GOD. Nothing could explain your dumb ^%^$#@#^&*())__)*(&%$#@ remarks.
coco...
December 30, 2008 - 01:43 ET by Clear thinkerWell said!
Hey Jer, you need to read this... Waving Goodbye To America
Making Fun of AGW http://giovanniworld.wordpress.com/
Jer must live
December 30, 2008 - 01:53 ET by cocodrieJer must live under the Golden Gate Bridge to be that far left.
Good evening CT
December 30, 2008 - 02:03 ET by cocodrieRead it earlier this evening. Great article. Made me sad.
Clear...
December 30, 2008 - 02:05 ET by JerRead it as soon as you posted it, C T. I'm sorry Hitchens feels that way, but I can't say that I'm surprised.
Jer
coco... Hear...Hear! "Am
December 30, 2008 - 01:43 ET by bigtimercoco...
Hear...Hear!
"America isn't the problem...America is the solution." ~ Rush Limbaugh
Et tu, bt?
December 30, 2008 - 01:57 ET by JerEt tu, bt?
Jer
Oh come on Jer...I've read
December 30, 2008 - 02:10 ET by bigtimerOh come on Jer...I've read these posts since last night between Uns and JWF...you had to insert yourself purposely for reasons I understand very well knowing you.
Now get the last word in Jer.
"America isn't the problem...America is the solution." ~ Rush Limbaugh
Bt...I could care less
December 30, 2008 - 02:19 ET by JerBt...I could care less about the last word, but I do care about accuracy. JWF is the one who originally inserted himself into my exchange with another poster, and made snide remarks about me.
Jer
cocodrie...
December 30, 2008 - 01:50 ET by JerSo because I happen to disagree with some--but not all--of the principles of contemporary conservatism, that makes me a "blooming extremist liberal who has rejected, the constitution, the declaration of independence, capitalism and GOD"? Incredible and absurd.
Jer
Jer
December 30, 2008 - 01:57 ET by cocodrieEverything I read that you posted tells me you are a dyed in the wool left-wing extremist.
cocodrie
December 30, 2008 - 02:01 ET by JerThen you need to take a stroll through the archives. You are very mistaken.
Jer
I'll sum up.
December 30, 2008 - 02:07 ET by JWFHere is what I have said.
Unsane is wrong.
Nazi's are socialists.
Communists are socialists.
Socialism gives power to the few enabling the rise of fascism.
The left/right dichotomy is one of collectivism (left) vs capitalism (right)
Socialism is at direct odds with capitalism.
Conservatism lies on the right. Conservatives want to conserve the principles found in the Declaration of Independence and Constitution. The other concepts of conservatism stem from those 2 documents - free markets, free trade, limited government, strong national defense, private property, patriotism.
I will apologise to Unsane if this is indeed our only disagreement. The Nazi party had the term socialist in their party name and the 25 items listed on their platform -
6. a public statement of the principles, objectives, and policy of a political party, esp. as put forth by the representatives of the party in a convention to nominate candidates for an election: The platform contained the usual platitudes.
again, the 25 items listed on their platform was SOCIALIST. This makes them for want of another word - SOCIALISTS.
But Jer is clearly trying to blow smoke up my butt.
Sincerely,
a Veteran of a 1000 psychic wars.
Why question what I said, there is a written history.
December 30, 2008 - 02:57 ET by JWFIf you really are saying that conservatives have some sort of exclusive license on the Constitution, the Declaration of Independence, and capitalism to which liberals in this country are not entitled
Why the need to question what I said? There is a written history here.
I did not say there was an exclusive license. I stated what conservatives are trying to CONSERVE.
I will now add that liberals tend to reject the constitution, declaration of independence and capitalism and embrace aspects of socialism. This is what makes them liberal.
Sincerely,
a Veteran of a 1000 psychic wars.
Tom Cruise to play Claus von Stauffenberg???
December 24, 2008 - 20:26 ET by R D HelmLOL-I did a little digging, and apparently von Stauffenberg's son is not impressed with Tom Cruise in the least:
You can read the rest of it here.
You know, I can think of at least a half-dozen people who would be a better fit for that role.
-Dave
Merry Christmas everybody!
Good evening RD
December 24, 2008 - 21:21 ET by cocodrieYou pointed out one of the main reasons I don't go to movies anymore. The leading men chosen are pansies and the leading ladies are floozies. One exception was "The Passion of The Christ, And Mel Gibson is paying the price for bucking the ruling establishment. Of course he could care less.
Great films are a thing of the past. We will see no more "Longest Day" or "Ten Commandments". Cecil B. DeMille has the whole world believing that Charleton Heston is Moses. A good story has been replaced by a political message, and good actors have been replaced by political pawns.
Evenin' coco,
December 24, 2008 - 21:45 ET by R D HelmI agree. Hollywood is but a mere shadow of its former self.
As for the gutless Tom Cruise playing someone who actually had some stones, that just isn't going to work for me.
LOL-Of course, much of the American brass at the time didn't want Hitler killed, as they were afraid someone might take over who actually knew what they were doing militarily.
Despite the release of Saving Private Ryan, which I thought was a first-class production all the way, The Longest Day remains one of my favorite WW II movies of all time. The actors chosen for their respective roles were just about perfect.
The book is still one of my favorite reads, and I still read it every couple of years. Funny thing is, since seeing the movie way back when, I now picture the actors who played the characters as I read through it. Of course, I have probably seen that movie about 50 times.
The kind of selfless people described by Mr. Ryan in that excellent book are in short supply in this day and age.
-Dave
Merry Christmas everybody!
A varied selection Great
December 24, 2008 - 22:06 ET by Jack BauerA varied selection Great WW2 movies, off the top of my head. Apologies for the many I've no doubt omitted
The Great Escape
Bridge On The River Kwai
Patton
The Big Red One
The Battle of Britain
Ice Cold In Alex
The Life & Death of Colonel Blimp
The Battle Of Midway (aka Midway)
One Of Our Aircraft Is Missing
A Matter of Life and Death
Agreed Jack
December 24, 2008 - 22:13 ET by cocodrieIf you listed them all you'd still be typing.
Jack,
December 24, 2008 - 22:15 ET by R D HelmI must say, you have excellent taste in WW II movies.
Patton was a first-class movie, even if George C. Scott out-weighed my favorite general by about 150 lbs.
The Big Red One is among my favorites, as well. Lee Marvin pulled his role off pretty well for an old guy.
Where Eagles Dare was pretty good, even if the story was a little hokey.
-Dave
Merry Christmas everybody!
Lee Marvin, enlisted man,
December 25, 2008 - 09:24 ET by Jack BauerLee Marvin, enlisted man, USMC 1941-44.
What a great American. Superb actor. He was 56 in The Big Red One, probably a little old in reality for the part. Though you never know.
Merry and blessed Christmas Jack
December 25, 2008 - 10:02 ET by cocodrieLee Marvin was superb. He also was a WW2 hero.
Audie Murphy was the most decorated soldier in WW2, if I'm not mistaken, and played his own life in "To Hell and Back.
England had one of the best heroes of the war. Douglas Bader, a fighter pilot with 23 kills, was shot down over Germany. He had no legs but accomplished great things.
cocodrie -- "Reach For The
December 25, 2008 - 10:33 ET by Jack Bauercocodrie -- "Reach For The Sky" was the story of Bader, and it was the first "adult" book I read as a kid, aged about 9 I think.
How about that?
Thanks Jack
December 25, 2008 - 10:51 ET by cocodrieI didn't remember the name of the book. I'm going to see if the library still has it. It's been almost50 years but I vividly remember him telling of his blind friend driving him around.
I am rediscovering reading and radio. TV robbed me of my imagination. I had forgotten how great it is to have something come alive through good writing.
many I've no doubt omitted
December 25, 2008 - 05:20 ET by Dan The Man 2many I've no doubt omitted - For a good romp but not very historical is "The Dirty Dozen"
Nuke em til they glow then shoot em in the dark.
Nice selections, Jack
December 25, 2008 - 06:02 ET by JerNice selections, Jack [although there are two or three I'm unfamiliar with.] Some other notables: A Bridge Too Far, Battle Hymn, Battleground, Sands of Iwo Jima, The Fighting Seabees...
and if you include movies that were Nazi-themed, but not action-laden, Casablanca and The Great Dictator should certainly make the list.
Jer
Bridge To Far & Sands --
December 25, 2008 - 09:17 ET by Jack BauerBridge To Far & Sands -- excellent. Must check out the others as I've missed them.
Casablanca. Yes, love that flick.
WWII Movies
December 25, 2008 - 10:53 ET by MDRepublicanBattleground is one of my favorites and for me it was a movie that tried to portray the grit of battle. It showed the down in the dirt dogface better then any other movie of its era. It gets "4 Bayonets Up" in my book. Bridge too Far is of the modern genre that did it correct. While it dodn't have the in your face that the first 20 minutes of Saving Private Ryan had, it was well done, and is another enjoyable movie to watch. For the officianado(sp), Band of Brothers (IMHO) is the best depiction of the WWII GI to date. A great series and a must watch. BTW, Comcast On-Demand is currently running Rat Patrol.
More worth mentioning...
December 25, 2008 - 17:14 ET by AgentAmericanTwelve O'Clock High
Sink The Bismarck
Sands of Iwo Jima
2010: A GOP Hill
That awful Twelve O'Clock High
December 25, 2008 - 20:34 ET by UnsaneTwelve O'Clock High is a PAINFUL movie to watch. I did not like it at all.
"THIS IS YOUR FINAL WARNING!!! A WAR ON FREEWILL IS COMING!!!" - Nevermore, "Bittersweet Feast", from This Godless Endeavor (2005)
AA,
December 26, 2008 - 23:56 ET by R D HelmSink and Sands are two more good ones.
LOL-Damn, my 44yo brain must be getting porous or something.
-Dave
"Sink The
December 27, 2008 - 05:48 ET by Carl Kolchak"Sink The Bismarck"
That must be a great movie.
Signed
Johnny Horton
"Bridge On The River Kwai
December 27, 2008 - 05:17 ET by Carl Kolchak"Bridge On The River Kwai "
Jack, that is a great movie!
Signed
Obi-Wan Kanobi
Shadow? No trace what so ever
December 24, 2008 - 22:08 ET by general companyRemind me when the last one of these elitist has served their country, in any capacity. These are the folks that used to work in Hollywood. Who would give a crap about any of the brats that reside their now?
http://www.jodavidsm...
"Television is a freak show" Bernie Goldberg
The kind of selfless people
December 25, 2008 - 08:29 ET by jdhawkThe kind of selfless people described by Mr. Ryan in that excellent book are in short supply in this day and age.
R D Helm, I couldn't disagree with you more. Our service men and women, as I write this on Christmas Day, are on the ramparts here and in distance lands defending our freedom. The travesty is that parts of our society like Hollyweird refuse to recognize their heroism and sacrifice. So, we don't think of them in those terms. That is sad.
Our service men and
December 25, 2008 - 14:14 ET by UnsaneOur service men and women, as I write this on Christmas Day, are on the ramparts here and in distance lands defending our freedom. Yes, but I think where R D is coming from is that the number of people who are willing to do that, out of a nation of 300 million+, is still quite small.
"THIS IS YOUR FINAL WARNING!!! A WAR ON FREEWILL IS COMING!!!" - Nevermore, "Bittersweet Feast", from This Godless Endeavor (2005)
jd,
December 27, 2008 - 00:34 ET by R D HelmI appreciate your criticism, but I think you are misinterpreting what I was attempting to say. Perhaps, as I so often do, I chose my words poorly.
As someone who has studied WW II rather thoroughly, and not just from the perspective of the American soldier, or America, period, I have to tip my hat to the generation that was involved in that world-encompassing conflict, and that includes a hell of a lot of people who were not Americans, and a whole lot more who were not even in uniform, period.
I was also thinking of the brave French resistance fighters, who risked more than most people will ever know. I was also thinking of the Burmese tribesman, who aided us mightily in the cause.
I was also thinking of the dirt-poor Chetniks who kept many of our downed pilots alive, even if it meant taking food away from their children, and whose only "reward" was to find themselves enslaved under communism, and then later to have been unfortunate enough to see their descendants bombed by the historical illiterate Bill Clinton.
I was considering also the average German citizen, many of whom resisted Hitler to the best of their abilities. Many risking their lives to help hide those the Nazis considered undesirable. Often, these were not just Jews, but the old, infirm, mentally ill and deformed for reasons that were not their fault.
Yes, I have omitted many groups from many regions above who did much to aid in the fight against fascism and Japanese imperialism. While many were ultimately Americans, many, many more were not.
I doubt we shall ever see their likes again in our lifetime.
-Dave
The Heck with Mel.
December 25, 2008 - 00:25 ET by mizflame98And Mel Gibson is paying the price for bucking the ruling establishment.
It also didn't help that he shown himself to be a drunken anti-semite while working in an industry that is run by many Jews. I no longer have any use for Mr. Gibson.
Perfect Demotivator for the Obama Administration
http://www.despair.com/government.html
Mizflame, It is interesting
December 26, 2008 - 04:26 ET by cocodrieMizflame, It is interesting that conservatives are never forgiven their sins.
Gibson apologized and admitted he was wrong. Getting drunk and insulting someone pales in comparison with the behavior of the other actors in Hollywood.
I don't care if he is conservative or liberal.
December 26, 2008 - 11:07 ET by mizflame98Racial slurs just don't roll off the tongue of people mistakenly. It is something that one believes for a long time and he just so happen to let it loose while on some 80-proof truth serum. Also, lets not forget the sexist things he said to the female officer as well. I use to love him, but now I think he's scum.
Perfect Demotivator for the Obama Administration
http://www.despair.com/government.html
Racial slurs just don't
December 26, 2008 - 11:34 ET by Dan The Man 2Racial slurs just don't roll off the tongue of people mistakenly - I use to love him, but now I think he's scum
And I say you really need to take a look at the man and his upbrining. I say this because I was exposed to racist elements in my upbringing and occasionally they come out in my thoughts. Achohol is an uninhibiter and may bring out long repressed tendacies like Gibson has.
They key idea is he does repress and repudiate them when sober. We all have some tendacies towards antisocial or bad behaviors, some of us have more than others. But, when a person strives to look beyond his upbrining and be a better person then you treat him like scum even though his actions say different?
I suppose you would think Paul of Tarsus scum also and would not give him or what he says a chance? If there is a change in people we must give them a chance.
Nuke em til they glow then shoot em in the dark.
Lets make something clear.
December 26, 2008 - 21:01 ET by mizflame98Mel Gibson is no St. Paul. St. Paul after having a blinding epiphany converted to Christianity and risked his life from that point on spreading the word of Christ. Mel acted like an ass in front of a bunch of police officers that was recording him. Only after the tapes leaked to the press did he show any "remorse" for the things he said. The last I recall, Mel didn't convert to Judism and risk his life preaching the word of Abraham.
I would also like to add that many people are raised by narrow-minded people (including myself). That doesn't give them a pass to use such ignorant language to describe a race or culture especially when they know that thinking that way is wrong.
Perfect Demotivator for the Obama Administration
http://www.despair.com/government.html
Why Don't They Make A Film About Chiune Sugihara?
December 25, 2008 - 00:07 ET by The7SticksThere was a project I did in my high school Japanese language class (I chose it mainly so I would be able to read un-translated Manga, which kind of worked more or less.) I wanted to find out if there was a figure in Japan that acted in the same fashion as Oskar Schindler, who famously risked his life and reputation to rescue thousands of Jews from the Nazi death camps. It turned out there was one figure named Chiune Sugihara, who was actually part of the Japanese consulate in Eastern Europe (my memory is hazy on which country it was specifically located.) Unlike Schindler, though, Sugihara didn't have the same kind of vices, so he was far more in line with traditional Japanese codes, like Bushido. Because of that, he realized what the Axis of Evil was doing, which was, well, evil. He followed his conscience, despite risking his job reputation (something that is far more taken seriously in Japan than in other countries) in signing about a thousand exit visas for the Jews to use to get to China or Japan. He was essentially shunned from the Japanese government, and he would live a rather impoverished life working in a fishery in order to support his family. Of course, he didn't realize how much his conscience saved thousand of lives until he and his family were invited years later to Yad Vashem, the Holocaust memorial in Israel, where a tree was dedicated for his courage and strength to do the right thing.
I think this would make a compelling story for anyone to see because it shows that people with vice are not necessarily the only ones who can redeem themselves and make a difference, but straight-laced people like Sugihara can also find courage in fighting against wrong and doing what's right for the sake of those who suffer.
Thanks!
December 25, 2008 - 17:46 ET by Legacy76Never heard of him, but I will study up on this person.
There are SO many people of the WW2 era, good and "evil", that would make fascinating movie subjects. I'm waiting for the definitive movie on Rommel. Guderian and Von Manstein would make an interesting subject. Hans Rudel was the closest thing to a superhero you could get, but just worked for the wrong side. Erich Hartmann is another.
We have already covered Patton and McArthur in the U.S. cinema, and Doolittle and Eisenhower to an extent. Col. Tibitts and the Enola Gay has already been covered. Wild Bill Donovan might make an interesting movie subject. I would love to see a movie on the Manhattan Project so long as it was historical and didn't have bare body parts every 10 minutes.
There were acts of bravery.
December 27, 2008 - 09:55 ET by danboThere were acts of bravery. A Nazi, John Rabe was so disturbed by the murder and rape the Japanese threw on Nanking China he asked Hitler to try to stop it. He also banded with other westerners to protect and save some 200,000 in a western safety zone.
Limited Disclosure: I used to belong to the Sierra Club untill they went crazier. Worse of all, I was bribed by Exxon with free New Orleans Saints glasses with fill ups in the 70's.
I'm not the biggest Tom
December 25, 2008 - 05:47 ET by Gary P JacksonI'm not the biggest Tom Cruise fan, but he is capable of good work.
I plan on seeing the movie. I have no idea how historical it will be, knowing the true story, but it will be a good escape.
Think about it. Indiana Jones was about Nazis!
So why, during what's
December 25, 2008 - 08:05 ET by misterbee241I think it's because Hollywood wants to keep it in front of us that W and the Repubs are really Nazis, and the Nazis have lost to Uber-Messiah. The sun will shine again in Mudville.
Why am I sitting here on Christmas morning writing this drivel?
Protesting too much
December 25, 2008 - 11:16 ET by needleI have long held that liberals make a big display in loathing – as a form of protesting too much – Hitler and the Nazis as a way of compensating for their causal accommodation with just about every other tyranny and outrageously illiberal political movement ever since.
In this way they try to establish their fake and tawdry bona fides for being opposed to tyranny, terrorism, and atrocities against humanity.
Impunitas semper ad deteriora invitat.
Valkyrie
December 25, 2008 - 17:37 ET by Legacy76Say what you want to about Tom Cruise. Frankly, his Scientology is a big turn off for me. That being said, if I honestly look inward, I must say that I enjoy his movies. I didn't really care for Mission Impossible #1, but most of the others I really liked."Eyes Wide Shut" was one of the greatest movies of the entire 1990's, in my opinion. Someone could write a Master's level thesis on that movie for film studies or something.
That being said, I'm a HUGE history buff, especially WW2. I think that the July 20th plot needs Hollywood treatment, and we finally have it. I will go see the movie not so much for Cruise as much as honoring the July 20th men.
"Patton" is a movie that I think only George C. Scott could pull off, as well as a movie that can never be made again. Scott didn't even sound like Patton (Patton's voice was high and nasaly), but managed to portray him by sheer force of will. Patton's family was initially against the movie, but was later converted over. Evidently, Graf Stauffenberg's son doesn't feel the same way.
A good Cruse movie
December 25, 2008 - 17:44 ET by mizflame98The Last Samurai.
Perfect Demotivator for the Obama Administration
http://www.despair.com/government.html
The Last Samurai
December 25, 2008 - 19:10 ET by choselife3xAnd Far and Away. I love that movie. In spite of Cruise.
In order to be pro-choice, one must first be born. Ah, the irony.
Maverick
December 25, 2008 - 20:39 ET by UnsaneEyes Wide Shut = Maverick the ???
The Last Samurai = Maverick the US Army advisor
Far and Away = Maverick the Irish Immigrant
ALL you need to see is Top Gun. You see that, you've seen every Tom Maverick movie ever made.
"THIS IS YOUR FINAL WARNING!!! A WAR ON FREEWILL IS COMING!!!" - Nevermore, "Bittersweet Feast", from This Godless Endeavor (2005)
MerryChristmas unsane
December 25, 2008 - 21:06 ET by Jack BauerMerryChristmas unsane -
clearly Tom Cruise was made to play John McCain: The Maverick
Shuddering
December 28, 2008 - 10:37 ET by choselife3xPlease no....
Can't you just hear Tom saying 'my friends'.
Ahhhhhhh!!!
In order to be pro-choice, one must first be born. Ah, the irony.
Well...
December 26, 2008 - 11:29 ET by Legacy76In Eyes Wide Shut, Cruise was decidedly "unmavericky". He was a doctor who was jealous of his wife's confessed fantasies about a naval officer. He goes out on the town to "get even" so to speak, and hilarity does not ensue. This is, of course, an oversimplification of Kubrick's symbolism throughout the movie. No violence to speak of; no romance in the classic sense, really; no dramatic symphonic music playing at 100 decibels; no explosions or special effects; no stunt men needed.
I feel dirty -- responding to this thread, but....
December 28, 2008 - 10:13 ET by spiderdanI must admit to really, really enjoying Cruise's role in a "Few Good Men". That is a good movie.
My opinion. Please resume talking among yourselves.
→ Outrageous
December 25, 2008 - 18:10 ET by Cool ArrowShep Smith is honoring three Silver Star recipients of the Iraq War.
Doesn't Shep know the war is lost? Jack Murtha and Harry Reid need to be told about this.
String him up!!!! Perfect
December 25, 2008 - 19:46 ET by mizflame98String him up!!!!
Perfect Demotivator for the Obama Administration
http://www.despair.com/government.html
delete
December 26, 2008 - 04:20 ET by cocodriedelete
If you haven't seen it, on
December 28, 2008 - 02:44 ET by thebutlerdiditIf you haven't seen it, on the Fox news site, a movie critic, {sorry don't remember who}, really rips Tommy Boy for Valkyrie. He gets him up, down, and sideways. I wouldn't have seen it anyway, I don't do movies and t.v. anymore. I have given up. I will on occasion watch an old dvd or vhs tape I have of something I like, but for everything else, nope. As for the whole Nazi thing, obviously some of you have studied this in great detail. I haven't. I just know that a good portion of my kinsmen died in those prison camps, and that's pretty much all I want to know. I find it too painful to read/watch. Of course, I find it painful to watch or read about any people being murdered.