By Matthew Sheffield (Bio | Archive) October 21, 2007 - 15:44 ET
The next Republican debate is taking place tonight at 8:00 pm ET on Fox News Channel. Make your pre-debate predictions on this thread, once it starts, head over to NB Chat to discuss it in real time as it happens.
we need a candidate that is, and always has been, a Conservative.
Actually, we need a candidate with the most universal appeal who can beat the personification of evil. You can stand fast on your principles and watch the bitch and her hot pants hubby take the WH or compromise a little and send her packing back to Arkansas.
One would hope the Republicans learned their lesson in 2006. Voting for no Republican for whatever reason is a vote for more libs in black robes legislating from the bench. I'd vote for McCain before I would let her thighness achieve that kind of power.
I like a lot of Fred Thompson's stands on the issues, but he just doesn't come across well when he speaks. I keep hoping that will improve, but that 5 min talk in FL yesterday didn't help. I think people need to feel that he's giving his all.
Chai
"Our people have shed more blood for the liberty and freedom of other peoples...than all the other countries put together. And I don't feel any need to apologize for the United States of America" - Fred Thompson
I am going to be watching the debate for sure, would like to chat live too but not gonna' do it tonight...not gonna' do it...not gonna' do it....famous last words....lol...
...too much going on, the talking heads afterwards I just have to check into...then there is the Steelers/Broncs game....
Plus getting dinner on...woe is me!
I am hoping so much that Fred puts some ummmmph into his answers tonight...it is much needed at this point as far as I can see...his speech yesterday at the Family Research thing was so disappointing for me....I know there is a lot of time left yet, but time is also of the essence when it comes to politics this election.
One question I wish they would ask the canidates is what they would do about the Mexican consulates handing out Matricular Consulate Cards to illegals. I hear they may be sending a mobil consulate to Irving, Tx because the local police have been arresting too many illegals and handing them over to the feds. They figure with the card there is less chance they will be arrested.
How about what they would do to the Mexican government for handing out brochures showing them how to leave Mexico safely???
Mexico's #1 GDP component: oil
#2: remittances from abroad
One, Mexico badly needs that #2 source of income. Two, Mexico is casting off people it doesn't want in order to make the skin of Mexico lighter (because Mexico has its VERY OWN issues of racism!!!).
Well, if you call yourself "tolerant," I believe you must. Is it really too much to tolerate people working on Sunday? What about police? Soldiers? Firemen? How about some mill worker on a 21-turn schedule?
Do you watch TV on Sunday? What about the technicians that run the broadcast facilities? Do you tolerate them? Get a paper on Sunday? Is putting that paper out something you can't "tolerate?"
What if someone's Sabbath is different? The Jews (who got their laws from Moses) consider Saturday the Sabbath. Do you tolerate Jews who work on Sunday? Or Saturday, for that matter?
In spite of your self-description as "tolerant," I can't figure out what it is you DO tolerate, if not ideas you believe are "wrong."
In Acts 20:7 we read of a gathering of Saints in Asia Minor on Sunday;
that it was a religious service is revealed by the fact that Paul
preached during the meeting. Sunday was picked because it was the day
of Jesus's resurrection (see 1 Corinthians 16:1-2 and Revelation 1:10).
Sunday became known as the Lord's Day.
And the commandment says to "keep" the Lord's Day "holy." To me, and maybe most, that means attending a Mass, service, maybe just taking a moment in prayer. But I'm not aware of any stricture against working, in so many words. The implication is in Genesis, sure, but it isn't specified in the commandment.
Like much in Christianity, it's open to interpretation, of which there are many. We must either tolerate these different views, or fight over them. By definition, if we're not fighting, we ARE tolerating.
in the Bible, botg. Of course, I don't think we are expected to be ENTIRELY non-judgemental, but I think it should be carefully considered. Especially, as you're pointing out here, in terms of how each of us keeps certain days "holy."
it is impossible not to judge. Who can abide "Cast not your pearls before swine" if we are not aloowed to judge. Just be careful not to judge according to appearance (ie not rashly but consider first) i think we agree on this.
"The more I study science, the more I believe in God." Einstein
The only real question about this debate tonight is how much effort the Paul posse will put into winning the poll after the debate. We already know he will "win" according to text voting. By how much remains to be seen. I'm gonna say he gets 39%.
BT, I also like Ron Paul, although I'm not obsessive over him. I do believe his ideas are sound. I would also be fine with Huckabee or Hunter, and I could grit my teeth and accept Thompson if I had to. But Giuliani and Mitt I cannot tolerate.
That said, I do not think that Ron Paul's negatives would come anywhere near to outweighing the positives. If he were elected, the country would benefit greatly despite some differences of opinion WRT his foreign policy. Many of the things he stands for are sorely needed in this country and the other candidates do not want to go there.
I agree he says some good things, so did Hitler so do all the canditates. Pauls loses it in foriegn policy and these days foriegn policy decides the election.
Do not attribute a comparison between Ron Paul and Hitler to me. I did not say that; you did. That statement is ridiculous. You just illustrated that you know zippo about Ron Paul except what the media has told you.
If what you say about foreign policy is true, then it shouldn't matter who we nominate, since Hillary and Obama are woeful in that area.
I am from HOUSTON TX, I know Paul and have heard his words from his own mouth. I said nothing about comapring him to Hitler, you are the one who made that connection. You said "I do believe his ideas are sound" and I made a coneection about some ideas being sound and some of the people who seem to have some sound ideas. Hitler was intended to make you see how rediculous your sttements were.
Dan - As one who is already represented by an idiot (Rep. Lee) here in Houston, can you tell me if Paul represents any portions of Harris County at all? I looked at a map and it wasn't quite clear...thanks in advance.
Sarc has told us repeatedly he is a card-carrying Republican. Has been for months. Months, I tells ya! And he will remain one until Paul drops out and Sarky refuses to vote for the eventual Repub nominee., thus, by default, giving Hillary his vote. Now, THAT's loyalty.
been reading posts here. And I know he was really stoked about the Ron Paul candidacy.
"...by default, giving Hillary his vote."
Here you touch on a sore point with me, also. While I know I'll never give my vote to a modern "liberal" Democrat, I'm getting kind of tired of voting against someone instead of for someone. I wish there was a viable alternative. On that level, I can understand sarc's frustration. I feel a bit taken for granted by the Republicans, as in "vote for us, the other guy is worse." Know what I mean?
For this cycle, I'm leaning toward Thompson, based on what I've heard about him. I hope I can get passionate about his candidacy instead of being kind of "ho-hum" about it. Like a lot of conservatives, I feel kind of betrayed by W, although he was the better choice both elections. But I think we really need better than "good enough."
I hope to see something to get enthused about tonight....
i can sympathize with you on this but when i get down about Ws big business, big government and immigration stances i think two words and yea three: Roberts, Alito, Ginsberg. And somehow i realize not all duty is pleasant but i can not be swayed
"The more I study science, the more I believe in God." Einstein
above you seem to have been singing a different tune. I'll vote as I please when the time comes, despite all the whines I've seen here. And I'm proud to have waited with my principles intact until the Republican party came to me, even if it took some dishonest ballot laws to artificially push the process...
And for the record, I'm pleased (and I'll admit, a little bit proud) that WHEN we won the text poll again, Sean and Alan didn't lie this time. More clear proof they or their staffs read NB! ;) And you'll all be thankful that our next First Lady is a lovely and kind person, with a wonderful family.
JMR
Good thing, God bless ya, and this turn of events might just be more subtle proof that prayer actually works... ;)
Sadly, more is needed, as a friend's son just died when his home burned to the ground. I can't even imagine how sad it must be for them, and he seemed like a great kid from pics I'd seen of him. It does remind me of what's truly important in life, though, and I'm certainly glad to see you well and back here.
JMR
about your friend. My son is my whole life, I don't think I could live if something happened to him. May God give your friend strength, and his son peace.
And thanks for all your prayers and good thoughts.
You can stream the debate tonight off FoxNews.com also incase your significant other is watching the game and most tivo's can capture the debate while you are live on the game thingy.
The gist was, maybe conservatives could live with a Hillary presidency. Why? Because she has no principles. No ideology she'd really fight to push against opposition. While I'm in no hurry to test this theory, I found it kind of thought-provoking.
I don't know if anybody is listening to the focus group with Frank Luntz right now before the debate starts, but I could not agree more with what they are saying!
We need a strong concise leader who is outspoken and means it.
I loved the lady who said she wants the republicans to grow a back-bone...
This is the most nervous (or should I say Tancredo-like) Ive ever seen the candidates on stage in the last 4 debates I watched, I have to say the pressure is on tonight.
One from McCain in referring to Hillary's proposal to fund a Woodstock Museum said he was sure that the event was a cultural and pharmaceutical success, but he could not be there because he "was a little tied up at the time."
One of my favorite lines was from Mike Huckabee tonight. While speaking on Hillary care he said "Just wait till all the old hippies find out they can get free drugs, Just how much is that gonna cost us?"
What's so funny about this is that nobody even considers the possibility that Ron Paul might be gaining popularity with viewers. It is certainly notable that those who vote in a Fox poll after a debate are largely Paul supporters. That could indicate a level of enthusiasm that might translate to the primary ballot box. It is undeniable that the man has passion and generates a lot of excitement. I saw him in person at a gun rights conference and I was lukewarm to him at the time. When I saw him speak I was impressed. The man really does generate excitement when you think of America returning to its roots via our Constitution.
Actually, it does nothing to disprove his blanket theory. He didn't say no one over 30 would vote for the guy. Even a blind squirrel finds an acorn every now and then.
HA! Hannity asked Paul if he would support Rudy or Mitt if they won, and Paul acknowledged that they've softened their tone lately so maybe. And then Paul said obviously they've been seeing the poll results after the debates which have been heavily in Paul's favor, so they are getting the message.
Then Hannity steps in the bear trap.
He says, "Oh, come on, your supporters are flooding our poll!"
Ron Paul retorts, "Come on, Sean, are you saying your own Fox poll isn't any good?"
OK, this is OT...but I gotta jump in here and ask...what is "PWNED"??
First time I saw it, I thought it was a typo for "owned". But apparently not, since I've seen it in different places. I guess I'm not up-to-date on the jargon.
Pwn is a slang term that implies domination and/or humiliation of a rival. It sprang from the similar term "owned" and is used primarily in the Internetgamingculture
to taunt an opponent that has just been soundly defeated. Examples
include "pwnage" or "you just got pwned". It can also be used,
especially by non-gamers, in the context of getting "pwned" by The Man.
The guy doesnt stand a chance. He may have the best ideas in the world, but he comes across shrill and fed up. People won't rally behind him to the extent he needs and that approach will get zero done in Washington.
Jimbo says - "There is a fine line between freedom of speech and treason"
and
Leon says "By the way, I'm not afraid of fat people, I'm repulsed" (open thread 10/17/07)
I think that Sean had said b4 Ron Paul came to the stage that this type of poll was only good for general purposes, one of which is to show the ability of Paul supporters to flood every one of them. You probably don't want to mention the live poll at the studio where not 1 person voted for Dr Paul
“I would remind you
that extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice! And let me remind
you also that moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue.”
Comments Policy
Go Sox!
October 21, 2007 - 16:14 ET by NoMoreClintonsUh . . . Red Sox in Game 7 for the pennant - politics can wait.
For those of you that watch
October 21, 2007 - 16:18 ET by Clear thinkerFor those of you that watch the debate tonight, keep in mind we need a candidate that is, and always has been, a Conservative.
Also, look for substance, not style. American Idol it ain't!
Get Email updates from Fred http://socialnet.imwithfred.com/email_alert_july_26.html
Think About It
October 21, 2007 - 16:27 ET by NoMoreClintonswe need a candidate that is, and always has been, a Conservative.
Actually, we need a candidate with the most universal appeal who can beat the personification of evil. You can stand fast on your principles and watch the bitch and her hot pants hubby take the WH or compromise a little and send her packing back to Arkansas.
AZTLAN, AZTLAN, AZTLAN!
October 21, 2007 - 16:35 ET by alamojbAZTLAN, AZTLAN, AZTLAN! Who will stop AZTLAN and who is just another GWB when it comes to the border?
Dittos NMC
October 21, 2007 - 17:44 ET by acumenOne would hope the Republicans learned their lesson in 2006. Voting for no Republican for whatever reason is a vote for more libs in black robes legislating from the bench. I'd vote for McCain before I would let her thighness achieve that kind of power.
acumen... Same here...and
October 21, 2007 - 17:50 ET by bigtimeracumen...
Same here...and that is saying a lot.
No matter what we had all better unite when it comes to her evilness...she is the biggest enemy within we face at the moment.
Plan to watch
October 21, 2007 - 16:27 ET by ChaitealoverBut I'll keep checking on the ball game :-)
I like a lot of Fred Thompson's stands on the issues, but he just doesn't come across well when he speaks. I keep hoping that will improve, but that 5 min talk in FL yesterday didn't help. I think people need to feel that he's giving his all.
Chai
"Our people have shed more blood for the liberty and freedom of other peoples...than all the other countries put together. And I don't feel any need to apologize for the United States of America" - Fred Thompson
I agree. He comes across as
October 21, 2007 - 21:37 ET by candanceI agree. He comes across as very boring when he answers.
card holding member of the vast right-wing conspiracy
Decisions decisions.... I
October 21, 2007 - 16:38 ET by bigtimerDecisions decisions....
I am going to be watching the debate for sure, would like to chat live too but not gonna' do it tonight...not gonna' do it...not gonna' do it....famous last words....lol...
...too much going on, the talking heads afterwards I just have to check into...then there is the Steelers/Broncs game....
Plus getting dinner on...woe is me!
I am hoping so much that Fred puts some ummmmph into his answers tonight...it is much needed at this point as far as I can see...his speech yesterday at the Family Research thing was so disappointing for me....I know there is a lot of time left yet, but time is also of the essence when it comes to politics this election.
One question I wish they
October 21, 2007 - 16:43 ET by alamojbOne question I wish they would ask the canidates is what they would do about the Mexican consulates handing out Matricular Consulate Cards to illegals. I hear they may be sending a mobil consulate to Irving, Tx because the local police have been arresting too many illegals and handing them over to the feds. They figure with the card there is less chance they will be arrested.
Mexico
October 22, 2007 - 04:15 ET by UnsaneHow about what they would do to the Mexican government for handing out brochures showing them how to leave Mexico safely???
Mexico's #1 GDP component: oil
#2: remittances from abroad
One, Mexico badly needs that #2 source of income. Two, Mexico is casting off people it doesn't want in order to make the skin of Mexico lighter (because Mexico has its VERY OWN issues of racism!!!).
Res tantum valet quantum vendi potest.
Funny how they debate on the Sabbath
October 21, 2007 - 17:06 ET by Daniel BakerRepublicans Organizers trying to show they don't respect religous tradition?
DB... Are you saying
October 21, 2007 - 17:15 ET by bigtimerDB...
Are you saying having this debate tonight is wrong?
Damn, BT, I've been
October 21, 2007 - 17:28 ET by Indiana JoeDamn, BT,
I've been cleaning today. Working on the Sabbath? Guess I'm going to hell!
Of course, if I were Jewish, it would be okay!
;^)
IJ
LOL IJ... Well we must
October 21, 2007 - 17:35 ET by bigtimerLOL IJ...
Well we must both be going to Hades because I too have been cleaning most of the day.
You bring the ice water.
Well, while we're at it....
October 21, 2007 - 18:17 ET by Indiana Joe...will Sam Adams do?
;^)
IJ... ...You danged
October 21, 2007 - 18:20 ET by bigtimerIJ...
...You danged tootin'!
BT
October 21, 2007 - 17:37 ET by acumenBT - Right, wrong, who cares as long as you practice that long held Judeo-Christian belief that encourages hating your Republican neighbor. (sarc off)
I wonder if our sinless friend equally casted stones at his sitting president that commited adultury during Easter Holy Week?
Well at least Bill and Hillarys Faith helped them recover
October 21, 2007 - 18:39 ET by Daniel Bakerfrom that unfortunate incident
No, I think Bill and
October 21, 2007 - 21:28 ET by Indiana JoeNo, I think Bill and Hillary's AMBITION helped them "recover" from that "unfortunate incident."
Ya gotta love this. Having a televised debate on Sunday is bad, but adultery is okay if you have "faith."
Talk about hypocrisy!
If believe the ten commandments maybe it is wrong
October 21, 2007 - 18:33 ET by Daniel BakerBut if you do not believe than it is not wrong
I respect your way of life
October 21, 2007 - 18:41 ET by bigtimerI respect your way of life Daniel.
Respect goes both ways.
Are you by any chance related/married to a gal named Debra?
Just curious.
Respect and Tolerance
October 21, 2007 - 18:48 ET by Daniel BakerI can respect anyone, and I have great tolerance.
Tolerance does not mean I have to tolerate behavior which I believe to be wrong.
No to your last question.
Daniel thought for the day
October 21, 2007 - 18:59 ET byIs it possible to tolerate someone you agree with?
"The more I study science, the more I believe in God." Einstein
Great minds, botg,
October 21, 2007 - 19:01 ET by Indiana JoeGreat minds, botg, lol.
You're just a little quicker on the trigger. ;^)
"Tolerance does not mean I
October 21, 2007 - 19:00 ET by Indiana Joe"Tolerance does not mean I have to tolerate behavior which I believe to be wrong."
Interesting viewpoint. But what is there to "tolerate" about behavior which you believe to be right?
Philosphical Question time
October 21, 2007 - 19:23 ET by Daniel BakerDo you have to tolerate Intolerance?
Not THAT hard a "philosophical" question...
October 21, 2007 - 21:22 ET by Indiana JoeWell, if you call yourself "tolerant," I believe you must. Is it really too much to tolerate people working on Sunday? What about police? Soldiers? Firemen? How about some mill worker on a 21-turn schedule?
Do you watch TV on Sunday? What about the technicians that run the broadcast facilities? Do you tolerate them? Get a paper on Sunday? Is putting that paper out something you can't "tolerate?"
What if someone's Sabbath is different? The Jews (who got their laws from Moses) consider Saturday the Sabbath. Do you tolerate Jews who work on Sunday? Or Saturday, for that matter?
In spite of your self-description as "tolerant," I can't figure out what it is you DO tolerate, if not ideas you believe are "wrong."
You are so right, Daniel.
October 21, 2007 - 18:01 ET by Roger the ShrubberYou are so right, Daniel. They are also showing that they are not living in the 18th century. Aren't you going to Hell for typing on the Sabbath?
Well I sure could be doing better things on the Sabbath
October 21, 2007 - 18:38 ET by Daniel BakerBut I am procrastinating, which is the biggest reason why people go to hell.
I thought the biggest reason
October 21, 2007 - 19:04 ET by Jack BauerI thought the biggest reason people go to hell is for being pro-sinning?
Jackson, I voted for
October 21, 2007 - 21:16 ET by Roger the ShrubberJackson,
I voted for sinning, before voting against it.
Rog, you devil, you.
October 21, 2007 - 22:42 ET by Dave RSorry. Just had ta.
LOL Beelzeeshrubbo. Check
October 22, 2007 - 04:10 ET by Jack BauerLOL Beelzeeshrubbo.
Daniel, I hate to bust your bubble their, pal, but I spent...
October 21, 2007 - 22:41 ET by Dave R..ten of my pre-college years in a private Christian school.
The Sabbath has always been on Saturday, not Sunday.
BTW-Hope you didn't strain yourself mowing the lawn yesterday.
Lord's Day and Sabbath are interchangeable
October 21, 2007 - 23:15 ET by Daniel BakerIn Acts 20:7 we read of a gathering of Saints in Asia Minor on Sunday;
that it was a religious service is revealed by the fact that Paul
preached during the meeting. Sunday was picked because it was the day
of Jesus's resurrection (see 1 Corinthians 16:1-2 and Revelation 1:10).
Sunday became known as the Lord's Day.
And the commandment says to
October 22, 2007 - 05:10 ET by Indiana JoeAnd the commandment says to "keep" the Lord's Day "holy." To me, and maybe most, that means attending a Mass, service, maybe just taking a moment in prayer. But I'm not aware of any stricture against working, in so many words. The implication is in Genesis, sure, but it isn't specified in the commandment.
Like much in Christianity, it's open to interpretation, of which there are many. We must either tolerate these different views, or fight over them. By definition, if we're not fighting, we ARE tolerating.
Indiana
October 22, 2007 - 12:36 ET byWould Paul tolerate judging each other in regards the sabbath?
"The more I study science, the more I believe in God." Einstein
There are lots of admonishments about judging
October 22, 2007 - 15:00 ET by Indiana Joein the Bible, botg. Of course, I don't think we are expected to be ENTIRELY non-judgemental, but I think it should be carefully considered. Especially, as you're pointing out here, in terms of how each of us keeps certain days "holy."
well Joe
October 22, 2007 - 15:13 ET byit is impossible not to judge. Who can abide "Cast not your pearls before swine" if we are not aloowed to judge. Just be careful not to judge according to appearance (ie not rashly but consider first) i think we agree on this.
"The more I study science, the more I believe in God." Einstein
The only real question about
October 21, 2007 - 17:23 ET by ckc1227The only real question about this debate tonight is how much effort the Paul posse will put into winning the poll after the debate. We already know he will "win" according to text voting. By how much remains to be seen. I'm gonna say he gets 39%.
ckc... ROFLMAO! Sure
October 21, 2007 - 17:27 ET by bigtimerckc...
ROFLMAO!
Sure sarc is amused too....eh?
Heeheheeee....
Yeah, what's up with that?
October 21, 2007 - 17:32 ET by Indiana JoeI saw some comments sarc made on another thread, and he said something akin to "no more Mr. Nice Guy."
Is there such a thing as "militant libertarianism?" Coz, that's kind of how he sounded.
I've been out of the loop for too long, I guess.... <sigh>
IJ
IJ.... Sarc is radical
October 21, 2007 - 17:38 ET by bigtimerIJ....
Sarc is radical about Ron Paul...radical I tell ya...obsessed.
You just can't talk to the guy without getting your head bit off when it comes to his guy...lol.
Yo! sarc...true story ya' know.
bigtimer
October 21, 2007 - 20:53 ET by fosstenBT, I also like Ron Paul, although I'm not obsessive over him. I do believe his ideas are sound. I would also be fine with Huckabee or Hunter, and I could grit my teeth and accept Thompson if I had to. But Giuliani and Mitt I cannot tolerate.
That said, I do not think that Ron Paul's negatives would come anywhere near to outweighing the positives. If he were elected, the country would benefit greatly despite some differences of opinion WRT his foreign policy. Many of the things he stands for are sorely needed in this country and the other candidates do not want to go there.
Forget 911, I dial 9MM.
I agree he says some good
October 21, 2007 - 20:57 ET by Dan The Man 2I agree he says some good things, so did Hitler so do all the canditates. Pauls loses it in foriegn policy and these days foriegn policy decides the election.
Nuke em til they glow then shoot em in the dark.
Do not attribute a
October 21, 2007 - 21:03 ET by fosstenDo not attribute a comparison between Ron Paul and Hitler to me. I did not say that; you did. That statement is ridiculous. You just illustrated that you know zippo about Ron Paul except what the media has told you.
If what you say about foreign policy is true, then it shouldn't matter who we nominate, since Hillary and Obama are woeful in that area.
Forget 911, I dial 9MM.
I am from HOUSTON TX, I
October 21, 2007 - 21:40 ET by Dan The Man 2I am from HOUSTON TX, I know Paul and have heard his words from his own mouth. I said nothing about comapring him to Hitler, you are the one who made that connection. You said "I do believe his ideas are sound" and I made a coneection about some ideas being sound and some of the people who seem to have some sound ideas. Hitler was intended to make you see how rediculous your sttements were.
Nuke em til they glow then shoot em in the dark.
Idiots
October 22, 2007 - 04:19 ET by UnsaneDan - As one who is already represented by an idiot (Rep. Lee) here in Houston, can you tell me if Paul represents any portions of Harris County at all? I looked at a map and it wasn't quite clear...thanks in advance.
Res tantum valet quantum vendi potest.
No I dont think it
October 22, 2007 - 10:19 ET by Dan The Man 2No I dont think it does.
Nuke em til they glow then shoot em in the dark.
Ron Paul
October 21, 2007 - 21:41 ET by JimboI look at Ron Paul and assuming I can tune out his shrill, I see one thing.
Ross Perot.
Jimbo says - "There is a fine line between freedom of speech and treason"
and
Leon says "By the way, I'm not afraid of fat people, I'm repulsed" (open thread 10/17/07)
Joe, Joe, Joe.... Sarc
October 21, 2007 - 17:57 ET by Roger the ShrubberJoe, Joe, Joe....
Sarc has told us repeatedly he is a card-carrying Republican. Has been for months. Months, I tells ya! And he will remain one until Paul drops out and Sarky refuses to vote for the eventual Repub nominee., thus, by default, giving Hillary his vote. Now, THAT's loyalty.
Well, sarc has been a passionate libertarian for as long as I've
October 21, 2007 - 18:15 ET by Indiana Joebeen reading posts here. And I know he was really stoked about the Ron Paul candidacy.
"...by default, giving Hillary his vote."
Here you touch on a sore point with me, also. While I know I'll never give my vote to a modern "liberal" Democrat, I'm getting kind of tired of voting against someone instead of for someone. I wish there was a viable alternative. On that level, I can understand sarc's frustration. I feel a bit taken for granted by the Republicans, as in "vote for us, the other guy is worse." Know what I mean?
For this cycle, I'm leaning toward Thompson, based on what I've heard about him. I hope I can get passionate about his candidacy instead of being kind of "ho-hum" about it. Like a lot of conservatives, I feel kind of betrayed by W, although he was the better choice both elections. But I think we really need better than "good enough."
I hope to see something to get enthused about tonight....
Indiana Joe
October 21, 2007 - 18:31 ET byi can sympathize with you on this but when i get down about Ws big business, big government and immigration stances i think two words and yea three: Roberts, Alito, Ginsberg. And somehow i realize not all duty is pleasant but i can not be swayed
"The more I study science, the more I believe in God." Einstein
Point taken, botg. Thank
October 21, 2007 - 18:48 ET by Indiana JoePoint taken, botg. Thank God we didn't have a Gore or Kerry making those appointments. Still, I'm getting mighty tired of "conservatism-lite."
I miss Dutch!
All good points, Joe. You
October 21, 2007 - 21:14 ET by Roger the ShrubberAll good points, Joe. You are definitely preaching to the choir!
Funny,
October 22, 2007 - 05:14 ET by sarcasmoabove you seem to have been singing a different tune. I'll vote as I please when the time comes, despite all the whines I've seen here. And I'm proud to have waited with my principles intact until the Republican party came to me, even if it took some dishonest ballot laws to artificially push the process...
And for the record, I'm pleased (and I'll admit, a little bit proud) that WHEN we won the text poll again, Sean and Alan didn't lie this time. More clear proof they or their staffs read NB! ;) And you'll all be thankful that our next First Lady is a lovely and kind person, with a wonderful family.
JMR
Rally online with fans of Dr. Ron Paul.
Morning, sarc`
October 22, 2007 - 05:17 ET by Indiana JoeLong time bud! Gotta run for work, just a quick note to let you know that "thing" all worked out (so far...). See ya around...
IJ
Ah, now I recall, Joe! (Senior moment!)
October 22, 2007 - 05:22 ET by sarcasmoGood thing, God bless ya, and this turn of events might just be more subtle proof that prayer actually works... ;)
Sadly, more is needed, as a friend's son just died when his home burned to the ground. I can't even imagine how sad it must be for them, and he seemed like a great kid from pics I'd seen of him. It does remind me of what's truly important in life, though, and I'm certainly glad to see you well and back here.
JMR
Rally online with fans of Dr. Ron Paul.
Sorry to hear
October 22, 2007 - 15:12 ET by Indiana Joeabout your friend. My son is my whole life, I don't think I could live if something happened to him. May God give your friend strength, and his son peace.
And thanks for all your prayers and good thoughts.
Joe
Hey there, Rog,
October 22, 2007 - 05:14 ET by Indiana JoeYeah, I know. It's just that no one else seems to listen!
;^)
The RPM
October 21, 2007 - 18:07 ET by third eyeIs there such a thing as "militant libertarianism?"
Im afraid so my friend, I call them the "Ron Paul Militia", and theyre the most pissed off Level 3 Dungeon Masters youll ever meet.
3rd-I...
October 21, 2007 - 18:20 ET by Indiana JoeOnly Level 3?
<snap>
;^D
Authoritarianism
October 21, 2007 - 18:49 ET by third eyeTo the RPM, Level 4 and above Dungeon Masters borders on "Authoritarianism", which, like women, they arent really that interested in.
}}---> Paul palm
October 21, 2007 - 22:47 ET by Cool ArrowThere is a medically defined condition afflicting Ru Paul supporters who overdo it with the texting.
~LYDSEXICS UNTIE!~
You can stream the debate
October 21, 2007 - 17:54 ET by Right2thePointYou can stream the debate tonight off FoxNews.com also incase your significant other is watching the game and most tivo's can capture the debate while you are live on the game thingy.
Fred best shine, else I am going to post why HRC is next POTUS.
October 21, 2007 - 18:10 ET by Dave RAnd I really mean it this time.
IT'S FRED OR RED IN 'O8.
Dave, Read an interesting Krauthammer column the other day.
October 21, 2007 - 18:26 ET by Indiana JoeThe gist was, maybe conservatives could live with a Hillary presidency. Why? Because she has no principles. No ideology she'd really fight to push against opposition. While I'm in no hurry to test this theory, I found it kind of thought-provoking.
Still scary, though!
Regards,
IJ
IJ,
October 21, 2007 - 18:35 ET by Dave RWelcome back, BTW.
I read the same piece. I understand his logic, and on a certain level it makes sense.
Bot only insofar as she doesn't have a dem congress. Not for even two years. If she does, we're forked.
And yeah, a HRC presidency scares the wee out of me.
Because she has no
October 21, 2007 - 19:31 ET by Jack BauerBecause she has no principles.
If only. She's a socialist. She lies about it. But every calcium lite bone in her chubby body screams socialist!
I love the Kraut, but I think this is the 0.1% of the time he gets it wrong.
I ain't gonna be Fred, get
October 21, 2007 - 19:23 ET by CTI ain't gonna be Fred, get over it now.
Is anyone watching the Debate Pre-Show?
October 21, 2007 - 18:51 ET by BlondeCan someone please stuff a sock in Alan Colme's mouth. Blah....blah....blah.
Also, earlier...Brit Hume called Obama stupid and naive over Iran..it was great.
David Gregory, do you know which damn network you lie for? ~ Uncle Jimbo, @Blackfive
Hey Blonde, maybe someone
October 21, 2007 - 19:27 ET by Jack BauerHey Blonde, maybe someone could stuff Geraldo in Colme's mouth and give us a twofer.
I use to find Little Al annoying but tolerable. Over past few months the guy has gone completely of his rocker.
I don't know if anybody is
October 21, 2007 - 18:57 ET by bigtimerI don't know if anybody is listening to the focus group with Frank Luntz right now before the debate starts, but I could not agree more with what they are saying!
We need a strong concise leader who is outspoken and means it.
I loved the lady who said she wants the republicans to grow a back-bone...
Hear! Hear!
Catch ya all later...
They just brought up the
October 21, 2007 - 19:00 ET by Right2thePointThey just brought up the live stream at Fox News
Nerves
October 21, 2007 - 19:18 ET by third eyeThis is the most nervous (or should I say Tancredo-like) Ive ever seen the candidates on stage in the last 4 debates I watched, I have to say the pressure is on tonight.
I missed Ron Pauls
October 21, 2007 - 19:19 ET by CTI missed Ron Pauls introduction before the "debate", thought they were getting serious and dropped the wingnuts, wrong!
Some great lines all
October 21, 2007 - 20:39 ET by Gat New YorkSome great lines all night.
One from McCain in referring to Hillary's proposal to fund a Woodstock Museum said he was sure that the event was a cultural and pharmaceutical success, but he could not be there because he "was a little tied up at the time."
A Fortune
October 21, 2007 - 20:39 ET by third eyeOne of my favorite lines was from Mike Huckabee tonight. While speaking on Hillary care he said "Just wait till all the old hippies find out they can get free drugs, Just how much is that gonna cost us?"
Sarc's fingers must be tired
October 21, 2007 - 21:02 ET by third eyeCaptain Constipation wins Fox News text vote...again.
What's so funny about this
October 21, 2007 - 21:12 ET by fosstenWhat's so funny about this is that nobody even considers the possibility that Ron Paul might be gaining popularity with viewers. It is certainly notable that those who vote in a Fox poll after a debate are largely Paul supporters. That could indicate a level of enthusiasm that might translate to the primary ballot box. It is undeniable that the man has passion and generates a lot of excitement. I saw him in person at a gun rights conference and I was lukewarm to him at the time. When I saw him speak I was impressed. The man really does generate excitement when you think of America returning to its roots via our Constitution.
Forget 911, I dial 9MM.
Why is he so mad all the time?
October 21, 2007 - 21:29 ET by third eyeI dunno, maybe if he drank some prune juice I would like him better..
Got news for you. I'm
October 21, 2007 - 21:33 ET by fosstenGot news for you.
I'm pretty pissed off over how big the gov is and how far down the slope our country has slipped.
And I'm not the only one.
Ron Paul is giving public voice to my frustration and that of millions of others.
Forget 911, I dial 9MM.
Or dried friut maybe...
October 21, 2007 - 21:43 ET by third eyeLike I told Sarc once, if you only counted single white males under 30 Ron Paul would do very well.
Well I'm a married white
October 21, 2007 - 22:31 ET by fosstenWell I'm a married white male over 30. So much for your blanket theory.
Forget 911, I dial 9MM.
Actually, it does nothing to
October 22, 2007 - 00:40 ET by ckc1227Actually, it does nothing to disprove his blanket theory. He didn't say no one over 30 would vote for the guy. Even a blind squirrel finds an acorn every now and then.
}}---> Blind squirrel theory
October 22, 2007 - 07:23 ET by Cool ArrowAnd you can catch more flies with honey than you can with vinegar.
But put out a bowl of sh#t and see what happens.
~LYDSEXICS UNTIE!~
"Got news for you. I'm
October 22, 2007 - 00:45 ET by ckc1227"Got news for you.
I'm pretty pissed off over how big the gov is and how far down the slope our country has slipped."
Got news for you. Many of us are disappointed with the size of government these days, but that doesn't mean we have lost our minds.
Ron Paul PWNED Sean Hannity
October 21, 2007 - 21:31 ET by fosstenHA! Hannity asked Paul if he would support Rudy or Mitt if they won, and Paul acknowledged that they've softened their tone lately so maybe. And then Paul said obviously they've been seeing the poll results after the debates which have been heavily in Paul's favor, so they are getting the message.
Then Hannity steps in the bear trap.
He says, "Oh, come on, your supporters are flooding our poll!"
Ron Paul retorts, "Come on, Sean, are you saying your own Fox poll isn't any good?"
PWNAGE!
Forget 911, I dial 9MM.
OK, this is OT...but I gotta
October 21, 2007 - 21:44 ET by motherbeltOK, this is OT...but I gotta jump in here and ask...what is "PWNED"??
First time I saw it, I thought it was a typo for "owned". But apparently not, since I've seen it in different places. I guess I'm not up-to-date on the jargon.
As per Wikipedia
October 21, 2007 - 22:02 ET by third eyePwn is a slang term that implies domination and/or humiliation of a rival. It sprang from the similar term "owned" and is used primarily in the Internet gaming culture
to taunt an opponent that has just been soundly defeated. Examples
include "pwnage" or "you just got pwned". It can also be used,
especially by non-gamers, in the context of getting "pwned" by The Man.
Paul - come on
October 21, 2007 - 21:46 ET by JimboThe guy doesnt stand a chance. He may have the best ideas in the world, but he comes across shrill and fed up. People won't rally behind him to the extent he needs and that approach will get zero done in Washington.
Jimbo says - "There is a fine line between freedom of speech and treason"
and
Leon says "By the way, I'm not afraid of fat people, I'm repulsed" (open thread 10/17/07)
phoney polls
October 21, 2007 - 21:46 ET by paulnashtnI think that Sean had said b4 Ron Paul came to the stage that this type of poll was only good for general purposes, one of which is to show the ability of Paul supporters to flood every one of them. You probably don't want to mention the live poll at the studio where not 1 person voted for Dr Paul
“I would remind you
that extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice! And let me remind
you also that moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue.”