Whether or not one agrees with the political views of Markos Moulitsas, there's no getting around the fact his website has become not just a powerful force in the blogosphere, but is also shaping the Democrat Party.
This raises an important question: Why isn't there a conservative website like Daily Kos?
Providing some answers this week were Dean Barnett at the Weekly Standard and David Weigel of Reason.
Barnett accurately frames the issue (emphasis added throughout):
Some people on the right fear that the left has developed an insurmountable advantage in harnessing the power of the Internet. While the Daily Kos, YearlyKos, and other bastions of online liberalism have clearly become power players, conservatives have no comparable entities. The right-wing blogosphere doesn't hold conventions, doesn't win the attention of candidates, and more important, doesn't move voters the way the progressive blogosphere does. The progressive blogosphere is a hotbed of activism; the most prominent outposts of the right-wing blogosphere stick to punditry.
[...]
The Netroots are passionate and in your face. They may not know what they like, but they know what they don't like. Their turn-offs include Republicans, conservatives, and George W. Bush. Their turn-ons are politicians and pundits who don't shy away from exposing and excoriating these turn-offs.
Barnett was making an important point, namely, the liberal blogosphere generates readers and action with antagonism. Whether it's anti-war, anti-Bush, anti-Lieberman, or anti-Conservatism, there typically is an anti- in front of any Netroot cause. This is a key point we'll get back to.
Moving forward, another reason the leftosphere and rightospheres differ is that for the most part, they serve different functions. Glenn Reynolds of Instapundit fame makes this point well in Barnett's piece:
"Different needs produce different approaches," he says. "People on the right think their political machine works, but that the media is out to get them. Hence rightish blogging is more about punditry and reporting, and they've succeeded--note the paucity of lefty bloggers embedding in Iraq, while the number on the right is extensive enough that I can no longer name them all. People on the left, on the other hand, know the media is basically on their side, but feel that their political machine stinks, so they've focused on building a new one. And they've succeeded, too."
Reynolds is 100 percent correct, and hit on another key difference between left and right bloggers that will be addressed further in a moment. Before we get there, here is Weigel's take:
The "netroots" grew because a bunch of people with day jobs built sites with extremely democratic bulletin boards (not that much different from what Plastic.com did half a decade earlier) and left-liberals found them to be fun places to hang out. The "rightroots" are, so far, a bunch of top-down blogs with moderators and old-fashioned, FreeRepublic-style "threads."
Is it really so hard to grok why one of these models is popular and one isn't? How big would YouTube have become if Chad Hurley and Steve Chen decided that they needed to bring in a bunch of established web stars to "run the place" and strict guidelines for posting videos? OK... so, why would the world of political blogging work any differently? The web rewards randomness and openness, not big names and five year plans.
Weigel does have a point, although we're not sure it's the real reason for Daily Kos's success. There are a few others that seem more likely to us.
First, both of these articles ignored how Daily Kos got its start virtually at the same time America was discussing going to war with Iraq in 2002. Irrespective of the poll numbers at the time favoring an invasion, the anti-war crowd is always active, vocal, and easily incited.
However, the press, understanding the public sentiment and eager for a sensational high-tech story, used to be far less skeptical of the war than they are now. This left quite a vacuum for anti-war expression in the media. ABC News filled it in the television world -- its ratings went up while it was the lone ardent anti-war establishment media voice.
On the web, Kos filled the gap.
After the March 2003 invasion, as presidential candidate Howard Dean's anti-war cry began to get noticed, he hired Moulitsas as a technical advisor, and started an Internet fund-raising campaign that was not only far beyond what other candidates were doing, but rather revolutionary for its time.
The ancillary benefit for Kos was that it drove traffic to his website comprised largely of Dean supporters opposed to the war. In reality, much of the focus and content at Daily Kos has indeed been anti-war, which is a huge part of his success, especially once the Democrats and their media minions reversed course and became doves in 2004.
Apart from that, another issue not touched upon by Weigel or Barnett was the underdog posture Kos has been able to exploit up until now. Unfortunately, the party in power has a tendency to be a bit lazy, while those seeking to regain control can be more easily motivated. This also translates at the grassroots level since people are much more willing to mobilize to "stop the bad guys" than to cheer policies from their own side which they may not fully support.
With that in mind, the Democrats' stunning mid-term defeat in 2002, combined with the anti-war fervor, provided a fabulous raison d'etre for Daily Kos unlike anything available to conservative bloggers. This put Kos in a wonderful position as not only an anti-war activist and liberal political consultant, but also encouraged other office holders and seekers to utilize his website in order to garner votes.
To drive this point home, just look at this list of "Prominent Contributors" to Daily Kos which are either current or past elected officials including House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.), Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-Nev.), John Kerry (D-Mass.), etc. This has given Kos a huge advantage over all bloggers on the right side of the aisle as such "prominent" guest postings must drive an enormous amount of traffic to his website.
Does any conservative blog have such a list of prominent guest contributors? Not even close. Besides the occasional posts by Republicans at Free Republic, Red State, and Captain's Quarters to name a few, the GOP leadership has been unquestionably shy about making such guest appearances, a fear they likely should overcome if they want to ever see a conservative Daily Kos.
That said, getting back to Reynolds's point concerning the differing roles of left- and right-wing bloggers, the reality is that most conservatives feel there is a huge vacuum in conventional reporting inasmuch as the mainstream outlets are typically either misinforming or "unreporting." What this means is the vast majority of conservative bloggers see themselves as being disseminators of information that the drive-bys either got wrong, or thought not newsworthy. This is why websites such as the Drudge Report, NewsMax, and WorldNetDaily are so popular.
As such, leading conservative blogs like Instapundit, Power Line, Little Green Footballs, Michelle Malkin, and Captain's Quarters are all providing information to their readers they believe is not being offered by mainstream outlets. The proprietors of these sites see themselves less as activists and more as educators. NewsBusters falls into this same group, especially as it's operated by a non-profit educational organization.
Yet, the differing focus is hardly just a mental construct. When you compare the main victories achieved by rightish bloggers -- the ouster of Dan Rather, the exposure and resignation of CNN's Eason Jordan, the various fauxtography-related firings, the Scott Thomas Beauchamp affair -- with those of liberal blogs -- booting Trent Lott from his Senate GOP perch, the George Allen macaca "scandal," greater online fund-raising prowess -- the pattern becomes clear: liberal bloggers attack Republicans while conservative and libertarian blogs attack the media establishment.
While it is true that rightish blogs would focus more on attacking a Democratic president's policy agenda should one be elected, the huge demand for non-liberal reporting and commentary created by the establishment media's leftward slant would ensure that left-wing blogs still have more leeway to focus their attacks on the war, the president, and Republicans.
As a result, since Kos and his compatriots can rely on the media being friendly to candidates and positions they support, he and his crew don't have to spend a great deal of time battling misinformation emanating from the press. In fact, they can feel comfortable cutting-and-pasting articles from the New York Times and other liberal organizations because their reporting virtually always fits Kos's agenda.
All that remains is to enforce the "correct" ideological viewpoint. These calls to arms in turn produce a different kind of reader, one who is looking to "get involved," not just get informed. Such readers are much more likely to come back many times during the day to "support the cause."
Of course, an important element of this "community" is its free-wheeling nature. As Kos has made clear, he and his team don't do a lot of editing of either the diaries or the comments. This allows for a more "lively" discussion than most conservative websites will tolerate. Though folks on the right might find such comments abhorrent, the reality is their existence and tolerance has to add to the number of readers and members looking for this kind of expression.
Fortunately, the advantage Kos currently enjoys is not dire. As Barnett accurately points out:
Let's conclude with a further note of consolation for conservatives, who might be panicked over their missile gap in the virtual arms race: Markos Moulitsas has frequently said his biggest asset isn't the size of his audience or the amount of money he can raise, but rather the soapbox that his prominence has granted him and likeminded lefty bloggers. Conservative bloggers have the same kind of soapbox available to them, but use it differently. Nevertheless, when the Republican party power-structure tag-teamed with Ted Kennedy to shove an atrocious immigration bill down Congress's throat, the "RightRoots" as personified by the conservative blogosphere and talk radio played a major role in killing it.
This is an important point conservatives shouldn't ignore. And, despite the Netroots' seeming lead over the RightRoots, it has yet to translate into tremendous success at the polls.
Sure, the Democrats just had a huge win in November taking back both chambers of Congress. However, despite assertions by Kossacks and others in the media, this kind of a victory is quite common in the second mid-term election of a two-term president, and is not the historic, epic event that's been advertised.
Furthermore, if not for "macaca," George Allen would have been easily reelected in Virginia thwarting Democrat efforts to win the Senate. The leftosphere failed also to unseat Joe Lieberman.
That's the good news. The bad news is that Democrat office holders and seekers are indeed more comfortable with utilizing the blogosphere for their campaign efforts than Republicans, and this certainly helped them in 2006.
With that in mind, given how close elections are these days, it seems imperative for Republicans to stop ignoring the power of this medium, and immediately not only increase their accessibility to bloggers, but also start posting at conservative websites in much the same way their brethren on the opposite side of the aisle do. Undertaking a proper net-based fundraising operation couldn't hurt either, nor could realizing that the best way to mobilize bloggers is with an active opposition response team.
In short, it's time to move into the new millennium.
Update 09-08 14:12 | Matthew Sheffield. Lots of interesting reactions to this post: News Corpse, a liberal blog, accuses NewsBusters of having "Kos envy," reiterating Weigel's point that the leftosphere is more popular because it is more democratic in nature. That is somewhat correct as a description of Daily Kos (although not entirely since the site is quite intolerant of stray moderates, conservatives and libertarians). The rest of the top left blogs such as Huffington Post, Atrios, FireDogLake, RawStory, etc. are not democratic in the slightest. That argument also totally discounts the free-flowing nature of FreeRepublic (so long as you aren't a strong Giuliani supporter). The top-down approach is not self-defeating as far as building a web infrastructure goes. The success of NewsMax, ThinkProgress, WorldNetDaily, Townhall, and other sites prove that you can build huge audiences without relying on user-generated content. The successful launch of Huffington Post also showed that this is still possible in the age of Web 2.0.
(Aside: NC is laughably incorrect about the media being pro-war. They, like many leftists are just upset that the media in this country are establishment liberals and not Chomsky-spewing mouthbreathers.)
In his response, Patrick Ruffini also discusses FreeRepublic, making a strong case that FR can indeed be considered the conservative Kos although not quite: "[T]here is a conservative Daily Kos, that’s it’s Free Republic, but that it doesn’t really 'count' since it’s not a blog, and more critically, it won’t play nicely with the rest of the movement and it doesn’t worship candidates like Kos does."
Ruffini is correct in saying that FR will never completely fulfill the same role for the right that Kos does on the left; he's also correct that FreeRepublic is more independent-minded than Kos. This is mainly due to the fact that FreeRepublic is run as a noncommercial, non-partisan, conservative web site. That very much sets it apart from DailyKos and the rest of left-wing blogosphere which is hyperpartisan and highly commercialized.
FreeRepublic's different nature has prompted many GOP politicians and PR staffers to write it off as not useful to the cause. This is a huge mistake. In my eight years of being on FreeRepublic, I can say that Freepers can very readily be persuaded to enlist in worthy conservative causes. Almost every day there are Freepers out and about protesting left-wing Democrats, demonstrating against nutjob protestors, and representing the right in online polls and forums. I've had them help me out with a number of projects.
Freepers are some of the most energetic and involved members of the political web. The key to understanding and working with them is to realize that they're not Republican robots. In that way, they are very much representative of the GOP base as a whole. The main reason Freepers won't work with GOP politicians is the same reason Republican voters haven't turned out for them: the Republican party has not sufficiently worked with them. If GOPers want Freepers to turn out and help the cause, they need to stop kowtowing to the liberal elite media, explain their policies to the public better, and come to a strong conclusion as to what center-right means for the Web 2.0 world. Once that's done, the Freepers and the conservative base will turn out in droves.
Matthew Sheffield is president of Dialog Media and executive editor of NewsBusters. Noel Sheppard, an economist and businessman, is associate editor of NewsBusters.












Comments Policy
Why isn't there a conservative Kos?
September 6, 2007 - 18:48 ET by Chris NormanMost of us work and don't have the time?
Probably the primary reason
September 6, 2007 - 19:56 ET by jpm100Probably the primary reason #1
Reason #2 is that what Kos does requires passion.
There's a certain segment of conservatives who equate showing passion or getting loud about something with vulgarity.
So those that are passionate get stamped as over-the-top when being politely criticized. More often they are stamped as nuts or extremists.
It's for that these two
September 6, 2007 - 20:06 ET by Chris NormanIt's for that these two reasons that there is generally a low conservative turnout for protests.
More reasons why there is
September 6, 2007 - 20:38 ET by Conservative_in_mass.More reasons why there is not a conservative "Kos".
If I may add to the list:
Reason #3: I do not wear winter clothing in July
Reason #4: I do not spend 6 to 7 hrs a day at Starbucks
Reason #5: The rear bumper of my car does not have a Kerry / Edwards bumper sticker still on it.
Reason #6: I bathe regularly.
Reason# 7: I don't hurl saliva when I speak. (ala Chris Matthews)
Reason# 8: I actually PAY taxes, not consume them.
And for another........
September 7, 2007 - 00:29 ET by Scout FinchWhy do Democrat politicians support their bloggers and rely on them for information, while I get the feeling that our Republican senators and congresscritters have probably never read a single post on Newsbuster, Lucianne, Little Green Footballs, Michelle Malkin, etc, etc...........
don't kid yourself
September 7, 2007 - 18:47 ET by LionKingRepublicans are very aware of Michelle, Ann, and some guy...what's his name..oh yeah...RUSH.
Reason #9
September 7, 2007 - 18:48 ET by LionKingReason #9: I go to a movie to be entertained, not propagandized.
Lame excuse - of course we
September 7, 2007 - 18:41 ET by sembyLame excuse - of course we should have a blog and we should call it the dailycause.com
Minoins of liberal college kids with lap tops and time on their
September 6, 2007 - 18:56 ET by upcountrywaterhands! They have air-America radio too!
lmao
Entitlement over infrastructure every SINGLE time.
Most of us are working our
September 6, 2007 - 18:59 ET by mostlymoderateMost of us are working our arse off so we can pay high taxes that support welfare, illegal immigrant benefits, environmental survey's, etc. Basically, we don't have the time.
Because a conservative
September 6, 2007 - 19:07 ET by LighthouseJBecause a conservative dailykos would be demonized as a loose assortment of right-wing nutjobs by the "centrist" liberal dailykos.
"Boats are safe in the harbor, but that's not what they're made for." -- Maritime quote
Heck, having a conservative
September 6, 2007 - 21:26 ET by KhyrisHeck, having a conservative "DailyKos" would be demonized as a loose assortment of right-wing nutjobs by CONSERVATIVES.
That's the reason we don't have a DailyKos, we deal with and ostricize the truly nutty ones rather than giving them sycophantic encouragement.
Conservatives do not WANT a collection of vulgar screaming lunatics to chorus eachother in a pathetic search for self-affirmation.
The difference is this:
On a KOS type site, posters generally post with the conceited hope that the next contributer will echo "Yeah! What he said!" It makes them feel worthwhile... as if their opinion has meaning. They don't generally care that their waste of cyberspace is merely a plagiarization of the last 1000 posters, or that the next 1000 posters will plagiarize them. In addition to the pointlessness that is "preaching to the choir" on the internet, the common method of behaving in anonymity in such a manner as they would never have in public just shows the true cowardice. Remember the Santa Monica Lawyer posing as Fred Thompson and linking to the KKK? As soon as the illusion of internet anonymity was torn aside, we saw the typical "death-bed conversion" to perfectly innocent behavior. The power of being an internet bully has strong allure to the immature: those who allow themselves to be ruled by their emotions rather than their brains.
Here, users generally post in an attempt to motivate OTHERS to GET INFORMED because the world is a safer and better place the more people who are well informed. Notice the motivation is for OTHERS and not for SELF. If opinions coincide, it is merely that, coincidence, and not some fawning flattery. We make these posts as I make this one: without really giving a rats-butt if the next person "likes" it or not... but with the hope that it will stimulate some thought. I don't have some pathological need for approval. Approval is great.. makes you feel warm and fuzy.. but should never be the primary motivation for a discussion of world shaping and life changing policy.
It's amazing how many liberals will "agree" with that last sentence, and then not realize how hippocritical it is for them to turn around and expect the President to kowtow war policy on the basis of popular opinion's "approval."
At the end of the day, conservatives realize it is the individual who has to have principles, to avoid the lemming mob mentality. I don't feel like I need to be one of the mob. I don't care if I agree with the person before me. I don't care if the next person thinks I'm wrong. I care that thought is being stimulated, both my own and others', so that the human race can progress.
That process involves people like Moulitsas getting over themselves. I'm no saint or visionary either, but I know enough to prefer the comraderie of even 1 thinking man, to that of 1,000,000 mindless sheep.
Agreed! Moderates are
September 7, 2007 - 09:11 ET by dscottAgreed!
Moderates are only right wingers who haven't been motivated.
Nutroots sure are loud and obnoxious, but really...
September 6, 2007 - 19:09 ET by NBFThe Daily who? You mean those folks who wear aluminum foil on their heads during their "conventions" and use foul language as a substitute for reason?
Am I supposed to be envious?
Well, considering the amount
September 6, 2007 - 21:17 ET by Evil CapitalistWell, considering the amount of money they can charge for a single ad without doing any work, yes, you are supposed to be envious. It is ultimate sweet passive income.
grok
September 6, 2007 - 19:11 ET by BlondeAnd who removed the sentence with the word "grok" in it? I've re-read this three times and can't find it...it was a great sentence!
Or am I just reading deficient tonite? (It's been a rough day).
Nice blog you two. I'm going to have to give this one some serious thought.
David Gregory, do you know which damn network you lie for? ~ Uncle Jimbo, @Blackfive
Grok
September 6, 2007 - 19:23 ET by ChaitealoverBlonde,
It's the second paragraph in the 3rd set of indentations, under the paragraph that starts "Reynolds was 100 percent correct,"
Now, what does it mean?
Those who would expect to reap the blessings of freedom must undergo the fatigue of supporting it - Thomas Paine
Thank you Chai!
September 6, 2007 - 19:29 ET by BlondeNo wonder I couldn't find it...I read through this quickly and thought that Noel or Matt had used it...which would be kind of typical of either one of them. Had I realized it was a quote and was not written by either of them...I wouldn't have commented.
It's from a sci-fi novel. I think, perhaps Robert Heinlein....roughtly translated "to understand".
Thanks for finding that for me...I guess I am reading deficient tonite....tired.
<edit> from dictionary.com:
David Gregory, do you know which damn network you lie for? ~ Uncle Jimbo, @Blackfive
'A
September 6, 2007 - 20:03 ET by botgyou're fast Blonde
Supreme Court, National Security, Borders, Fiscal Restraint, my litmus test for President.
Yep, Bruce
September 6, 2007 - 20:05 ET by BlondeI remembered it was Heinlein...then looked the word up on dictionary.com
I may have to dig out my old books....Heinlein was great....one of the authors that hooked me on reading. I haven't read any sci fi in years & years. Although the political reading I've done lately kind of resembles it, in a sad little sort of way.
David Gregory, do you know which damn network you lie for? ~ Uncle Jimbo, @Blackfive
botg
September 6, 2007 - 20:15 ET by BlondeWow...that post of yours just got mangled. That's not what it said originally. Odd.
David Gregory, do you know which damn network you lie for? ~ Uncle Jimbo, @Blackfive
blonde
September 6, 2007 - 20:18 ET by botgi'm fast too
Supreme Court, National Security, Borders, Fiscal Restraint, my litmus test for President.
Apparently
September 6, 2007 - 20:20 ET by BlondeDavid Gregory, do you know which damn network you lie for? ~ Uncle Jimbo, @Blackfive
You're welcome
September 6, 2007 - 22:17 ET by ChaitealoverI loved "Stranger in a Strange Land." I guess it's been so long since I read it that the word slipped from my memory [which is full]. Looks like a good excuse to read it again.
Those who would expect to reap the blessings of freedom must undergo the fatigue of supporting it - Thomas Paine
Well, Chai
September 6, 2007 - 22:30 ET by BlondeI have to thank you for locating the "grok" word for me....I saw it on my first glance through the blog....and just kind of glommed on.
Funny how some things just kind of stick, isn't it?
Now that we've had this conversation, I think I may have to reread Heinlein's whole bibliography.
What I remember about Heinlein, even more than "Stranger" is his whole series about Lazarus Long. IIRC, the original book in the series was "Time Enough for Love".
Thanks again for the memory prod.
David Gregory, do you know which damn network you lie for? ~ Uncle Jimbo, @Blackfive
methinks
September 6, 2007 - 22:43 ET by botgyouthinks correctly
Supreme Court, National Security, Borders, Fiscal Restraint, my litmus test for President.
MONEY
September 6, 2007 - 19:13 ET by jiminjerseyM-O-N-E-Y
B-I-N-G-O
September 6, 2007 - 19:18 ET by bigtimerB-I-N-G-O
E-I-E-I-O
September 6, 2007 - 22:46 ET by Cool ArrowE-I-E-I-O Senior English spelling of F-A-R-M
~LYDSEXICS UNTIE!~
Besides, Conservatives
September 6, 2007 - 19:47 ET by Chris NormanBesides, Conservatives don't cling together in monolithic interest groups. That's why we're called "rugged individualists". :)
First there isn't a
September 6, 2007 - 19:54 ET by mlongFirst there isn't a Conservative multi-millionaire backing one like Soros and second the MSM would continually attack one if it did exist..unlike the Daily Kos which the MSM protects by NOT reporting the hateful vile things posted there then NOT asking the Dem candidates who pander to Kos how they feel about it...now if there was a Right-wing version of Kos you know damn well the MSM would pick apart even the slightest bad comment posted and attack the entire Republican party over it.
*********** John Edwards '08 ***********
"More woman than Hillary,more black than Obama!"
Paging Scaife?
September 6, 2007 - 20:07 ET by Del DolemonteWhere are the Mellons?
Well thats the point can
September 6, 2007 - 20:32 ET by mlongWell thats the point can you imagine what the MSM would do if Scaife or some other rich Republican did bank roll a Conservative Kos?..the attacks would be daily...talking about how wrong it is for him to try to influence people like that.
*********** John Edwards '08 ***********
"More woman than Hillary,more black than Obama!"
Pssst!
September 7, 2007 - 06:11 ET by ding7777Sarah Scaife Foundation funds NewsBusters.org parent, Media Reseach Center
Kos & NB both feed their base....
September 7, 2007 - 08:09 ET by Karma...as do apples and oranges.
If hillary wins they
September 6, 2007 - 19:58 ET by MidAmericaIf hillary wins they will tear her apart. They don't represent most ordinary democrats (who are still under the illusion that this is still the party of FDR and JFK).
Just as Hitler used the Brownshirts as thugs in his rise to power and then had to eliminate them so will these nutroots have to be dealt with when their usefulness is over.
Finally, a political
September 6, 2007 - 20:01 ET by Chris NormanFinally, a political comparison to Hitler, from the other side! The Kossers as Storm Troopers - I like it.
If hillary wins they will
September 6, 2007 - 23:21 ET by motherbeltIf hillary wins they will tear her apart. - MidAmerica
Don't count on it. Democrats, even the farthest out, have a way of reverting to the pack once the candidate is chosen. (Look at how blacks came back to Bill Clinton even after they said welfare reform would destroy black communities.) That's easy to do when you don't have any real principles. It's the Republicans of a one faction or another (e.g. evangelicals) who will stay home if the candidate is not the one they wanted.
I'm talking about the
September 7, 2007 - 00:06 ET by MidAmericaI'm talking about the rabid ones. They already dislike hillary. She will be too 'centrist' for their liking. They want to maintain their power and influence. If the dems sweep the Whitehouse and congress do you think they will just go away because their work is done? I believe they will be even more emboldened because they will take credit for the win and therefore they should set the agenda.
Look at how blacks came back to Bill Clinton....
...and the Blacks came back to bill clinton because they have no where else to go. Voting for the Republicans would mean giving up their blind loyalty to the dems. They suffer from battered wife syndrome. I worked with a lady whose sister had her arm broken and was knocked unconscious by her abusive husband. She went back to him. Why? Because he told her he loved her. That's what the dems do to the blacks.
Why Isn't There a "Daily Democrat Jihadist" Website?
September 6, 2007 - 20:07 ET by jonathanandersonBecause there aren't any psychotic right-wingers who would stab their own mother in the back if she was pro-Bush, pro-Republican, pro-conservative, pro-Christian, or pro-Iraq.
The Daily Kos is a democrat jihadist website as committed to political and intellectual "terrorism" as Al-Jazeera is to ACTUAL terrorism.
You've Got CNSNews.com, Rush Limbaugh ...
September 6, 2007 - 20:37 ET by jonathananderson... NewsMax.com, NewsBusters.org, Ace of Spades, Flopping Aces, Hannity.com, and at least a dozen more conservative sites that are probably doing the job already.
From purely technological
September 6, 2007 - 21:24 ET by Evil CapitalistFrom purely technological perspective a claim that NewMax, FA, Ace of Spades and Hannity are comparable to DK is about equal to a claim that Yugo and Toyota have the same level of technology inside.
There Is More
September 6, 2007 - 20:39 ET by dwillmoreThis is a fairly accurate depiction of the two sides of the blogosphere.
I would like to add that there is a maturity inherently present in the conservative mind. This does not mean that the conservative doesn’t enjoy comedy, but the conservative is disgusted by the vile immaturity that is common from liberals.
What we see is the difference between a comic book and Shakespeare.
Daily Kos : Blackhole of Political Deceit
September 6, 2007 - 20:41 ET by jonathanandersonNewsBusters.org : Lighthouse of Truth and Reason
Dear diary,
September 6, 2007 - 20:45 ET by FAQsI would never read a web site that posted "diaries." A diary, by the way, is defined as "a daily record, usually private, esp. of the writer's own experiences, observations, feelings, attitudes, etc." Much like a liberal's position on anything, it's all about how you feel about something. Not much intellectual thought going on there.
This is one of the most
September 6, 2007 - 20:54 ET by ddmThis is one of the most insightful articles I've read. Great work Noel. thanx
ddm
September 6, 2007 - 21:07 ET by Mark FinkelsteinGMTA! It's scary how closely my comment tracks yours -- and I didn't read any comments before posting mine.
Some of the most insightful
September 6, 2007 - 21:04 ET by Mark FinkelsteinSome of the most insightful and thought-provocative analysis of the blogosphere I've seen anywhere. Great stuff.
Kos : a Greek island ...
September 6, 2007 - 21:09 ET by jonathananderson... only a stone's throw from the island of Lesbos.
Which is appropriate because when you approach the left end of the political spectrum you're only a stone's throw away from a practicing lesbian.
I wanted to better
September 6, 2007 - 21:13 ET by Gat New YorkI wanted to better understand the actual people behind some of these author names on DailyKos and actually engaged some of them for a time in dialogue about specific issues – kind of as a mole. As a generalization they tend to be indifferent to reason and logic. They cannot fathom a point of view that wavers from the Democratic Party line – even if it is contradictory. They are being led by the nose by Democratic operatives who provide them information sources and story lines.
They are no different than the left wing of the 1960’s and 1970’s who were highly idealistic and hated anyone who did not share their idealism. In both cases their raison d’etre was a war. In the 1970’s when the war wound down and ended so too did the so called movement. DailyKos and MoveOn will not survive beyond a conclusion in Iraq. They have no issues and no other reason for their existence.
I found these people to range from young idealistic college students, old 1960’s radicals, to frustrated old line Democrats who cannot believe they ever lost the White House after their hero Clinton left. Some of these people are respected professionals in finance and business. But they all seem to be generally very angry people for whatever their reasons.
I see today’s DailyKos as yesterday’s SDS or Yippie movement with the same angry rhetoric, the same level of hate, and the same sick leader. Back during the 1960’s/1970’s these people couldn’t elect anyone, because most of the country is quiet (The Silent Majority) and does not share in this vitriolic and antagonistic rhetoric. They are far more reasonable and only voice their opinion on election day. Conservatives in general are much more thoughtful and informed people who have more measured responses.
I do not believe Kos had the impact on the last election as he and other would give him credit for. First was his vendetta against Joe Lieberman which he lost. But more importantly Democrats did not win - we lost because of corruption topped off with the Mark Foley scandal.
Conservatives are better to
September 6, 2007 - 21:35 ET by Evil CapitalistConservatives are better to wake up and smell the coffee... More and more people are getting most if not all of their news from the net. Significant percentage of them uses Google to find answers. Did you notice that Wikipedia's version of the "truth" sits right on the top? Do you realize how skewed to the left Wikipedia's articles are? It is time to wake up and realize that the same people that post on DK stuff information into Wikipedia and other sources which makes it into Google, which in turn is shaping public's view on the issue. Conservatives ignorance of technology is going to bite us in the ass. We are still running campaigns as if it was 1980... It is not.
That I would agree with.
September 6, 2007 - 21:43 ET by Gat New YorkThat I would agree with. While I don't think DailyKos has as much of an impact as Markos believes, the larger issue you pointed out is "information" and how that is being framed and disseminated in general.
DailyKos and MoveOn will
September 6, 2007 - 22:44 ET by third eyeDailyKos and MoveOn will not survive beyond a conclusion in Iraq.
I second that. The aforementioned websites will be forgotten and replaced with something newer when Bush leaves office. Bush, in a way, unites the left in their hatred. Take away that impetus, and the cohesion melts away.
Gat New York...Obviously, I
September 6, 2007 - 23:30 ET by JerGat New York...Obviously, I can't speak about your experience, but I strongly disagree with several of your conclusions about DailyKos--specifically the claims of "indifferent to reason and logic"..."cannot fathom a point of view that wavers from the Democratic Party line", and other similiar characterizations.
I posted the following links to opinions of other conservatives a few weeks ago; not sure anyone read them. I hope you [and others] will and give me your reaction.
http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2007/7/17/0857/83210
http://rightwingnuthouse.com/archives/2007/08/page/6/
The second link is to entry on 8/5/2007 by conservative Rick Moran who attended the annual Kos convention. [Scroll down from top of page]
I'm by no means suggesting DailyKos is completely free of obnoxious jerks. As a political advocacy site, they come wth the territory. But, in my opinion, it is nowhere near the "hate" site that cheap shot artists like O'Reilly have labeled it.
Jer
Well now, if we
September 6, 2007 - 21:14 ET by JABWell now, if we conservatives could just get Georgie Soreass and his ilk to fund us setting on our collective arses all day, I am sure we could come up with better results that they are advertising.
BTW, this single sentence really stood out for me: "The Netroots are passionate and in your face. They may not know what they like, but they know what they don't like." This truely explanes why they have no sense of humor nor any possitive out look on life...the poor things (beinging nice) have not a clue!
"Too bad Ignorance isn't painful..."
Who?
September 6, 2007 - 21:20 ET by pbthinkerDoes anyone here believe the Daily Kos was responsible for the Democrats victory, in 2006? The best Kos could do would be to motivate Democrats, he certainly can't keep Republicans from the polls. I doubt that Kos could even sway swing voters, since much of the rhetoric over there is too over-the-top for most middle of the roaders. Kos couldn't get Ned Lamont elected and yet he's taking credit for the rest of what happened on '06.
Let's see what happens in '08 and judge Kos and his impact. I'm sure the Democrats are believers, but they believe in anything that could get them elected. One thing's for sure, if they spout the same things that appear on the Daily Kos, to the electorate, their chances of winning again become slim.
Never argue with an idiot. They'll drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.
I don't believe he did. As
September 6, 2007 - 21:32 ET by Gat New YorkI don't believe he did. As I said previously, he had a vendetta on Joe Lieberman and he lost. I believe we lost (Abramoff, Cunninham, Foley - not the war) - they did not win.
You're right - let's see what happens in '08.
"it seems imperative for
September 6, 2007 - 21:26 ET by Spock"it seems imperative for Republicans to stop ignoring the power of this medium"
Actually, to me it seems imperative for Republicans to stop ignoring their base and start remembering what it is to be a conservative!
Regardless of what anyone
September 6, 2007 - 21:33 ET by Sonny LykosRegardless of what anyone has to say about Daily Kos and the Democrats, every single day they are making America more socialist. That's "daily!"
And in 2008 when they gain the White House and increases seats in both houses of Congress, the destruction of the US as we knew it will speed up.
Folks, they are winning nearly each battle because of the wussies called "conservatives" and the ignorance of the masses.
We're dead and refuse to admit it.
It's our own fault that Marxist scum like Markos rule the net.
September 6, 2007 - 21:36 ET by Dave RThen again, most of us conservatives work for a living, and don't have the time for anything else.
If we were like many libs and living off someone else's money, we might have a chance.
BTW-Has anyone looked into this loser's immigration status? I understand this supporter of all things communistic wasn't even born here.
Perhaps it is time he returned whence he came.
And I do not care how.
"I WANT MY COUNTRY BACK!”- Rick Roberts
Then again, most of us
September 6, 2007 - 21:40 ET by Evil CapitalistThen again, most of us conservatives work for a living, and don't have the time for anything else.
I have news for you... most of people that work in the internet industry are left-wing. These people make a lot of money doing what they are doing.
Just curious, just how do
September 6, 2007 - 21:48 ET by mandrakeJust curious, just how do you know that? I've worked in the programming business my whole life...and I'd say I've met all sorts. But on the whole, I'd say there is an even balance.
I work in the internet
September 6, 2007 - 22:02 ET by Evil CapitalistI work in the internet business. I can pretty much name everyone who is even slightly conservative in it.
EC
September 6, 2007 - 22:11 ET by mandrakeYou haven't answered the question. There must be millions of people in the 'internet' business. How did you reach your conclusion?
The same way as any
September 7, 2007 - 07:47 ET by Evil CapitalistThe same way as any reasonable person reaches a conclusion that Hollywood leans left or MSM leans left.
It is IRRELEVANT that there are millions of professionals in the internet business. What is relevant is that those who control content centers like Wikipedia, YouTube, Facebook and MySpace are left-wing (not own, control). What is relevant is that those who control European RIPE and American ARIN are left wing. What is relevant is that those who provision services are left wing. What is relevant is that NANOG gets 'republicans are evil and we should have single payer healthcare like cuba' posts.
Does this Moulitas
September 6, 2007 - 22:30 ET by ckc1227Does this Moulitas character look like Curious George to anyone else?
ckc227, actually, M M reminds me more of this guy-
September 6, 2007 - 23:21 ET by Dave RMarkos M's true identity.
"I WANT MY COUNTRY BACK!”- Rick Roberts
Great article, unfortunate comments
September 6, 2007 - 22:30 ET by cleverpigFirst of all, that was a great, well thought out, and even-handed post. That's the first time I've ever said that on this site!
Unfortunately, the comments go right back to bashing liberals for no particularly good reason.
First of all, many of you said that conservatives work and don't have time to run websites, thus strongly implying that liberals don't work, and instead run extensive web-based empires in their ample spare time. That's just silly. DailyKos is a job, probably several. It brings in ad revenue. If you had the know-how and the inclination, running a major website could be your job. Work and active internet communities are not mutually exclusive things.
The other oft cited reason why you all don't have the same web presence is that conservatives are polite, positive, don't call people names, and don't need approval from their peers. Liberals, on the other hand, are vulgar, petty, and sycophantic. Honestly, you don't need to look any further than this very site to see conservatives cheer each other on while they call liberals nasty names. You aren't worse than liberal sites, but you aren't better, either. Fundamentally, all politically based websites become echo chambers to one degree or another.
If you acknowledge that fact and turn your attention instead to the serious issues brought up in this post, you'll go a lot farther towards narrowing the internet gap than if you continue to dismiss your opponents as idiots. I promise you, we're not.
"Unfortunately, the
September 6, 2007 - 22:36 ET by ckc1227"Unfortunately, the comments go right back to bashing liberals for no particularly good reason."
I disagree. We have plenty of good reasons for bashing liberals. Heck, just being a liberal is reason enough. ;)
Touche! :P
September 6, 2007 - 22:42 ET by cleverpigTouche!
:P
cleverpig
September 6, 2007 - 22:57 ET by botgsince i gave ya the 300 comment tip during this your latest incarnation can you tell me did Krammer ever save you from the hospital?
Supreme Court, National Security, Borders, Fiscal Restraint, my litmus test for President.
Shhhh...
September 6, 2007 - 23:18 ET by cleverpigThat's between me and the godfather.
won't answer eh?
September 10, 2007 - 20:49 ET by botgNO SOUP FOR YOU
Support our Troops
}}---> Liberals? Jobs?
September 6, 2007 - 22:42 ET by Cool ArrowWhat we really mean is that most Liberals who have jobs are riding the Government gravy train.
That's why Libs hate the military. Military works for the same government but see the world correctly.
Hope that helps
~LYDSEXICS UNTIE!~
Really? Most liberals who
September 6, 2007 - 23:02 ET by balboaReally? Most liberals who have jobs are riding the Government gravy train?
I assume you have statistical data to back that up.
}}---> Sure, Bal
September 6, 2007 - 23:30 ET by Cool ArrowWho do you work for?
~LYDSEXICS UNTIE!~
According to the Bureau of
September 6, 2007 - 23:16 ET by cleverpigAccording to the Bureau of Labor Statistics (http://www.bls.gov/iag/government.htm), the federal government employs 2.1% of the US workforce including uniformed military. State and local governments employ 13.8% of the workforce.
Given that our country is fairly evenly divided between left and right, I hardly think you can say that most liberals are government employees!
}}---> Evenly divided?
September 6, 2007 - 23:32 ET by Cool ArrowYou've gotta be kidding.
~LYDSEXICS UNTIE!~
Fine
September 7, 2007 - 00:27 ET by cleverpigLet's say every single employee of the government in every state and county in this country is a liberal. That's still only 16% of the working population.
If there were that few liberals in America, Bush would have won the popular vote more often!
Bush got more than 50% one
September 7, 2007 - 00:36 ET by RESTLESS 1Bush got more than 50% one more time than clinton did.
}}---> Here piggy piggy
September 6, 2007 - 23:42 ET by Cool ArrowI guess these "statistics" include teachers? Parks workers? School support?
You know it doesn't even though they are government employees.
You need to be a little more truthful with your nonsense. I guess that would be oxymoronic.
~LYDSEXICS UNTIE!~
Careful
September 7, 2007 - 00:32 ET by cleverpigLooking at the source I reference before calling the data nonsense can save you embarrassment in the long run.
http://www.bls.gov/oes/current/naics3_999000.htm includes a list of all major groups included in the designation "Federal, State, and Local Government."
Group 25-0000 is "Education, Training, and Library Occupations"
Occupations in this group include 25-3099 "Teachers and Instructors, all others" (I'm not going to list every different kind of teacher!), 25-4021 "Librarians", 25-9031 "Instructional Coordinators", and 25-9041 "Teacher Assistants", among many others.
Group 45-0000 is "Farming, Fishing, and Forestry Occupations"
This group includes 45-4011 "Forest and Conservation Workers"
Satisfied?
(edit: to spell "embarrassment" correctly. How embarrassing!)
Wow piggy
September 7, 2007 - 10:59 ET by Cool ArrowI didn't realize there are only 2070 secondary school teachers in the entire United States.
Your numbers don't even come close to the total number of Federal, State, and Local Government employees.
But what else should I expect from a "hide the sausage" Liberal?
~LYDSEXICS UNTIE!~
Hey Pig
September 7, 2007 - 18:05 ET by Cool ArrowIt's your contention there are less than 10,000 Postal employees in the US?
If you know of a better
September 8, 2007 - 01:19 ET by cleverpigIf you know of a better source for labor statistics than the Bureau of Labor Statistics, by all means, slap some numbers down!
How clever, well piggish
September 8, 2007 - 11:50 ET by botgis closer.
With 3.3 million teachers in the US, and well we can investigate the policies of the NEA (in my case CTA lead by socialist Barbara Kerr) which should reveal if the group is liberal or conservative.
(hint: Conservatives are pro-vouchers)
Supreme Court, National Security, Borders, Fiscal Restraint, my litmus test for President.
Okay, I don't even know if
September 10, 2007 - 09:58 ET by cleverpigOkay, I don't even know if you are reading this anymore, but the BLS website on my internet says there are approximately 1.3 million secondary teachers in the US. http://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes_nat.htm#b25-0000
It claims 8.something million million employees in the education sector. Are you sure you didn't get the job classification number mixed up with the number of people holding it?
These are all included in the 13%. 13% is a big number, but I still contend that government employment is not sufficient to explain all instances of liberalism!
I'm having a hard time finding your argument here. I'd say if you want to continue debating, head to the woodshed!
Garbage in, Garbage out
September 6, 2007 - 22:38 ET by kdizzydazeDaily Kos and all those other garbage sites are nothing more than posts filled with vitriolic, hate-filled, evil rhetoric cloaked in some pseudo-intellectual package, and they are weak at even appearing pseudo-intellectual. They have no intention of solving anything or moving this country forward in any way. They may have cute slogans like "no blood for oil" or "not my war" but they offer