CNN's Berman Wonders If Muhammad Cartoon Group is 'Looking for More Violence'

May 5th, 2015 3:50 PM

On Tuesday's At This Hour, CNN's John Berman wondered if American Freedom Defense Initiative (AFDI), which organized the Muhammad cartoon conference that was attacked by two Islamists on Sunday, was only provoking more terrorist violence by planning to hold similar events in the future. Berman asked AFDI vice president Robert Spencer, "By holding more events, then, I suppose you could continue to say, are you looking for more violence to keep on making this point?" [video below]

Co-anchor Kate Bolduan also spotlighted how "the question has been posed...if the intent was to serve as bait, it worked. Is that what you guys were intending?" However, to her credit, Bolduan later underlined that she didn't want to "debate...if you have a right to be holding this event. You have the right to be holding this event. We're not going to debate here...if violence is okay in light of this event. Absolutely not! I don't even want to debate...the line between free speech and provocation."

The anchors' interview of Spencer was certainly a change of pace from anchor Alisyn Camerota on Monday's New Day, who repeatedly played up the "hate group" status of AFDI, and conducted a contentious interview of the organization's president, Pam Geller. Bolduan led the segment by noting "this new threat, if you will, of more violence coming from ISIS. In part, they say future attacks are going to be harsher, and they're going to be worse." She asked, "Are you guys having second thoughts now about future events in light of this?" The AFDI vice president replied by emphasizing his organization's commitment to hold similar events going forward:

ROBERT SPENCER, VICE PRESIDENT, AMERICAN FREEDOM DEFENSE INITIATIVE: No. I think that this only underscores the necessity to continue to hold events like this – to show that we will not be cowed; we will not curtail our activities; we will not be intimidated; we will not bow to violent intimidation.

What they want to do is force us to obey sharia blasphemy laws, which mandate death for those who insult Islam or Mohammed. Now, if you are not a Muslim, you do not believe in sharia blasphemy laws. And in a pluralistic society, we have to get long with one another, and put up with offense to our core beliefs by those who do not hold them. That's a necessity, if the society is going to be  – is going to be really pluralistic. And so, if we kowtow to this, and we curtail our activities, and we say – okay, Mohammed and Islam – they're off-limits – then we're just aiding and abetting the ISIS agenda – and that is surrender.

Berman followed up with two questions that set up his "more violence to keep on making this point" line. Bolduan then followed with her "serve as bait" question:

BERMAN: Do you feel like your event in Texas on Sunday night was a success?

SPENCER: Absolutely, it was a success. It was a success, because we made the point that we were not going to bow; we were not going to surrender; we were not going to submit. And we – the Garland police did a stellar job in stopping the jihadis-

BERMAN: Do you feel like the fact there was violence proved the point you were trying to make?

SPENCER: Oh, it certainly does – absolutely-

BERMAN: So, are you looking – by holding more events, then, I suppose you could continue to say, are you looking for more violence to keep on making this point?

SPENCER: No – of course not; of course not. That's a ridiculous idea. What we are trying to do-

BOLDUAN: Robert, I have seen it written – I have seen it written, though – you said you're not going to bow; you're not going to stop. You're not going to – this proves the point that you need to have more of these events. The question has been posed – and I want to get your take on it – that if your event was – if the intent was to serve as bait, it worked. Is that what you guys were intending?

SPENCER: It wasn't bait – no. The intent was to stand – to stand on our feet and say, we are not going to submit. We are not going to bow to you. And we are going to continue to do that. We don't want any violence. We are not the ones who are committing the violence. We are not inciting the violence. The ones who are inciting the violence are the ones who are on Twitter saying, you have to go kill people who draw cartoons. I mean, they're just cartoons.

Bolduan gave her "I don't even want to debate...the line between free speech and provocation" near the end of the interview. Spencer credited the police response for stopping the attackers cold in their tracks:

BERMAN: I think there – there is no question that you were the target here. There is no question that it was an event that was well within your free speech rights in this country. You know, we can draw what we want to draw.

BOLDUAN: Do you change plans, though, now in light of the violence – in light of the future threat? Do you change plans for your event?

SPENCER: Oh, we will-

BOLDUAN: I want to put this out here right now. There is a lot of talk – even debate over – is this event controversial or not? We're not going to debate here if you have a right to be holding this event. You have the right to be holding this event. We're not going to debate here if there should or should – if violence is okay in light of this event. Absolutely not! I don't even want to debate the right – the line between free speech and provocation. I want to talk to you, and get your take, in light of the fact that there was violence attempted at your event – and you want to hold more events – do you now need to change plans? Very realistically – not using the bully pulpit here.

SPENCER: Well, we have to take adequate security measures – and we did at Garland. The jihadis were stopped. They wanted to replicate the Charlie Hebdo jihad massacre, and kill massive numbers of people. They were not able to get into the building. The Garland police did a tremendous job. We are going to have to have that kind of security – and more – in the future.

BERMAN: Well, there certainly is one – at least one police officer there who sure knows how to use a service revolver.

SPENCER: Yeah. We owe him a great debt of gratitude.