How's this for a conversation on race? After CNN's Don Lemon cited Bill O'Reilly's critique of problems in the black community, ABC's The View co-host Sherri Shepherd wouldn't listen to O'Reilly.
"I don't want to give Bill O'Reilly a license to say anything, because he's never been a young black man growing up in the situations that a lot of them grow up in," Sherri Shepherd told Lemon on Monday's The View.
When Lemon responded that he could cite O'Reilly's talk on race "as a young black man," Shepherd still admonished him. "I agree there are things that need to be done. But I think trying to apply blanket statements to every situation is not always the best."
The View also took issue with Lemon's recommendation that young people wear their pants at the waist.
"To me, keep your pants where they are, learn what's going on in the world. I think for me, young people just need to like step up their game," said Whoopi Goldberg. "I don't mind the pants. I don't mind the pants."
"I think telling all of them, all of the young black men, pull up your pants, is but a band-aid. Because I don't know if that's going to do it. You know what I'm saying? Just pulling up your pants. Just stop saying the n-word," Shepherd declared.
Below is a transcript of the segment, which aired on The View on July 29 at 11:15 a.m. EDT:
WHOOPI GOLDBERG: But you also have with you the fabulous Don Lemon. And Don, you're getting your behind – oh my god.
[Cheers and applause]
GOLDBERG: People are – they are busting you up. Twitter. Everybody. What – what happened? What did you say?
DON LEMON: Ana was there, she helped.
ANA NAVARRO: Yeah, but I'm not taking it.
LEMON: I have a "No Talking Points" segment on CNN. And I just said that I gave advice to African-Americans about how suggestions about how you might –
GOLDBERG: On CNN, because you're the anchor. Yes.
LEMON: Yeah. One was pull up your pants. The sagging pants thing. Pull up your pants.
LEMON: And not just African-Americans do that. But that's what we've been talking about it after the George Zimmerman verdict. I said stop dropping the n-word like you're saying "and" "the" or "he" so much.
LEMON: I said respect where you live. And finish school. And also be an involved parent. If you either plan for a kid or stop having kids out of wedlock.
GOLDBERG: So people just got all over you?
LEMON: Come on. Yes.
JOY BEHAR: Which part is controversial about what you said in terms of people getting on you?
LEMON: All of it. I think that I don't understand – that's advice my mother gave me in kindergarten.
GOLDBERG: But you know, I know you're going to think I'm crazy. But maybe we have to up our game. Because I think it's -- when I was a teenager, I was saying to Ana, you know, we wore mini skirts and they were way too high. And our mother said why you dressing like that? You said this is the way it's supposed to be. So I think we have to up our game in terms of what we're saying like, if you see stuff, you are out there, you are protesting, you're doing this, you have to then educate yourself to find out why these laws affect you. To me, keep your pants where they are, learn what's going on in the world. I think for me, young people just need to like step up their game.
NAVARRO: Maybe we could do both. Maybe they could wear their pants at their waist and educate themselves.
GOLDBERG: See, I don't mind the pants. I don't mind the pants.
LEMON: The pants are just a symbol of respect for me. Respecting yourself and respecting others. And what I was saying was not how you end racism. I was saying self-empowerment. How you help yourself, because you have to – there are issues in the African-American community that go beyond white people, right? Where you can fix things yourself and those are things that we can do.
SHERRI SHEPHERD: But I think, Don, a lot of the controversial stuff also came because you said Bill O'Reilly's criticism didn't go far enough in the black community. And I think a lot of people took umbrage with that, of –
LEMON: Because of who Bill O'Reilly is.
SHEPHERD: Because of Bill O'Reilly. Because I don't want to give Bill O'Reilly a license to say anything, because he's never been a young black man growing up in the situations that a lot of them grow up in. So I think that a lot of people were saying, when you were going, Bill O'Reilly should have gone farther in his criticism –
LEMON: But I can as a young black man –
SHEPHERD: But you can. But I think it's a blanket statement as well. I agree there are things that need to be done. But I think trying to apply blanket statements to every situation is not always the best. Because I think you know, because I lived in Harlem, I remember a boy came over to our house, and he was like can you just give me money to get to my grandmother's, because my mom hasn't shown up in three days. And his pants were sagging, so I think telling all of them, all of the young black men, pull up your pants, is but a band-aid. Because I don't know if that's going to do it. You know what I'm saying? Just pulling up your pants. Just stop saying the n-word.
NAVARRO: Don is a friend of mine, and he is so proud of his culture, he's so proud of his race, and he's doing it –
NAVARRO: – from a place of love and sincerity.
SHEPHERD: I don't think Bill O'Reilly comes from that place, which is why I'm not giving him license.
GOLDBERG: Even if he does, why when people are critiquing, aren't they critiquing the things that are useful? To me, the fact that we can look at a state and go hey, I didn't know this law was there. How come? Why didn't we know? Because we're not paying attention. That's what young people have to do as far as –
BEHAR: Do you think the n-word should not be used by rappers or anybody then?
LEMON: I think the proliferation of that word is just – I think it's disrespectful. I think people died for that word. And I don't think that it should just be dropped. I think as you guys have talked about on your panel. If it's pertinent to the conversation especially as a journalist and you say the word.
GOLDBERG: Well, you are constantly getting hit for saying stuff about black people. He was reading – Don Lemon was reading a piece and said the n-word. People lost their minds. They were like, he said the n-word! What? It does exist.
NAVARRO: And then when he says we shouldn't say the n-word, he gets attacked. So –
LEMON: There's a difference between saying the n-word. You say someone said the n-word, and you say, someone said – there's a difference. There's a visceral difference in –
BEHAR: Than using it yourself.
NAVARRO: He should stop saying the n-word, not because it's politically incorrect, it's because it's incorrect.