Arianna Huffington: Drug War a 'War on Our Own People'

Not everyone disagreed with singer Tony Bennett's pleading for the legalization of drugs in lieu of Whitney Houston's tragic death on Saturday. Arianna Huffington insisted Bennett's point was an "absolutely fair" one to make, and that the war on drugs has targeted minorities in America.

"But the point, I think, is absolutely fair, that the war on drugs has failed and we're not acknowledging it," Huffington posed on Monday's Starting Point. [Video below the break.]

She added that the drug wars have especially targeted minorities in America. "[W]e're spending over $50 billion a year fighting a war that's become a war on our own people, especially among African-Americans and minorities in general."

Rolling Stone's Joe Levy added that Bennett "has a point to make" about the drug wars, "which is that it should be about education, not incarceration."

A brief transcript is as follows:

CNN
STARTING POINT
2/13/12
7:14 p.m. EST

ARIANNA HUFFINGTON, Huffington Post: But the point, I think, is absolutely fair, that the war on drugs has failed and we're not acknowledging it. That we're spending over $50 billion a year fighting a war that's become a war on our own people, especially among African-Americans and minorities in general.
 

Ahhh, yes;

if prescription medications were just legalized Whitney Houston would still be alive. And, if we'd just make alcoholic beverages legal it would cure alcoholism and stop drunk driving and family strife. Wow. I'm glad Mzzzzz Huff-n-stuff cleared that up for me. :-|

...We have seen the enemy and it is us - Pogo

  • Drugs don't kill people - people do
  • Alcohol doesn't kill people- people do
  • Guns don't kill people - people do

v

The burden of life is from ourselves, its lightness from the grace of Christ and the love of God. - William Bernard Ullanthorne

I'm showing my naievete here

I'm showing my naievete here but I cannot for the life of me figure out how the legalization of any drug would be better for this country because a lot of people want the legalization of marijuana so it can be taxed and sold to the masses.. Well the masses are already growing it and selling it "under the table" so to speak without having to pay tax on it, etc. so I guess I fail to see where a guy is making tax free money would go along with this plan to have it legalized so that the government can go in and take their share of his "profit". Makes no sense - if anything the problem will get worse because these people will be selling these goods on a black market and the gov't will spend loads of cash going after these people to get their cut.

And you are right cowboy, making these drugs readily available to Ms. Houston would keep her alive? Makes NO sense whatsoever because she wanted lots and lots of drugs. Whether they are legal or illegal, would not stop her from taking the "recommended dosage" and furthermore she could still take these drugs with alcohol - which if you look at any prescribed medication it tells you "do not mix with alcohol". So unless a person modifies their own behavior - the result would still be the same. You can't regulate a person's behavior no matter how hard you try. The end result would still be the same. By all accounts - well depending on who you speak to - one person's "upbeat and happy Whitney" is another's "erratic Whitney" - she smelled of alcohol. Combine that with prescribed medication the combination is bound to be fatal.

Goddess

I'm showing my naievete here but I cannot for the life of me figure out how the legalization of any drug would be better for this country because a lot of people want the legalization of marijuana so it can be taxed and sold to the masses.. Well the masses are already growing it and selling it "under the table" so to speak without having to pay tax on it, etc. so I guess I fail to see where a guy is making tax free money would go along with this plan to have it legalized so that the government can go in and take their share of his "profit".

First of all, "masses?"  Were you a college professor?  Just askin.

Secondly, in the cost of doing bidness, paying some tax can be more profitable than paying lawyers, fines and spending some time in jail and losing voting and firearms rights.  Growers are usually prosecuted by the feds and get worse sentences than users.

Thirdly, the masses aren't growing.  There are many growers, but not on the scale of providing wholesale product.

Lastly, I used to smoke pot and do some other illegal drugs.  It was many years ago.  After the military cracked down with Operation Goldenflow I went back to drink.  I went back with such gusto that I was an alcoholic.  I was given a choice to go to rehab or end my career.  I went to rehab, but really didn't get "sober" for another 4 or 5 years.

I haven't had a drink for almost 23 years.  If given the choice, I'd have smoked pot only.  Now I can do either, but choose to neither.  Pot smokers aren't half the danger that alcoholics are.  If anything were to be made illegal, it would be alcohol....and we already know how that turned out.

I don't care what happens in regards to pot legalization, but a lot of money is wasted at local, state and federal levels going after that particular drug.

President Obama is a Muslim (from his own lips), Kenyan (read it from his publicist) a homosexual (read it on a news magazine cover) and a Socialist (I'm alive and can see it for myself)

Some simple facts:

* Colombia, Peru, Mexico or Afghanistan with their coca leaves, marijuana buds or poppy sap are not igniting temptation in the minds of our weak, innocent citizens. These countries are duly responding to the enormous demand that comes from within our own borders. Invading or destroying these countries, thus creating more hate, violence, instability, injustice and corruption, will not fix our problem.

* A rather large majority of people will always feel the need to use drugs such as heroin, opium, nicotine, amphetamines, alcohol, sugar, or caffeine.

* The massive majority of adults who use drugs do so recreationally - getting high at the weekend then up for work on a Monday morning.

* Apart from the huge percentage of people addicted to both sugar and caffeine, a small minority of adults (nearly 5%) will always experience the use of drugs as problematic. - approx. 3% are dependent on alcohol and approx. 1.5% are dependent on other drugs such as methamphetamine, cocaine, heroine etc.

* Just as it was impossible to prevent alcohol from being produced and used in the U.S. in the 1920s, so too, it is equally impossible to prevent any of the aforementioned drugs from being produced, distributed and widely used by those who desire to do so.

* Prohibition kills more people and ruins more lives than the drugs it prohibits.

* Prescription drugs kill over 200,000 Americans every year-- even when taken as directed and not abused.

* Due to Prohibition (historically proven to be an utter failure at every level), the availability of most of these mood-altering drugs has become so universal and unfettered that in any city of the civilized world, any one of us would be able to procure practically any drug we wish within an hour.

* Throughout history, the prohibition of any mind-altering substance has always exploded usage rates, overcrowded jails, fueled organized crime, created rampant corruption of law-enforcement - even whole governments, while inducing an incalculable amount of suffering and death.

* Apart from the fact that the DEA is the de facto enforcement wing of the pharmaceutical industry, the involvement of the CIA in running Heroin from Vietnam, Southeast Asia and Afghanistan and Cocaine from Central America has been well documented by the 1989 Kerry Committee report, academic researchers Alfred McCoy and Peter Dale Scott, and the late journalist Gary Webb.

* It's not even possible to keep drugs out of prisons, but prohibitionists wish to waste trillions of dollars in an utterly futile attempt to keep them off our streets.

* The United States jails a larger percentage of it's own citizens than any other country in the world, including those run by the worst totalitarian regimes, yet it has far higher use/addiction rates than most other countries.

* Prohibition is the "Goose that laid the golden egg" and the lifeblood of terrorists as well as drug cartels. Both the Taliban and the terrorists of al Qaeda derive their main income from the prohibition-inflated value of the opium poppy. An estimated 44 % of the heroin produced in Afghanistan, with an estimated annual destination value of US $ 27 Billion, transits through Pakistan. Prohibition has essentially destroyed Pakistan's legal economy and social fabric. - We may be about to witness the planet's first civil war in a nation with nuclear capabilities. - Kindly Google: 'A GLOBAL OVERVIEW OF NARCOTICS-FUNDED TERRORIST GROUPS' Only those opposed, or willing to ignore these facts, want things the way they are.

* The future depends on whether or not enough of us are willing to take a long look at the tragic results of prohibition. If we continue to skirt the primary issue while refusing to address the root problem then we can expect no other result than a worsening of the current dire situation. - Good intentions, wishful thinking and pseudoscience are no match for the immutable realities of human nature.

Never have so many been endangered and impoverished by so few so quickly!

* The urge to save humanity is almost always a false-face for the urge to rule it. - H. L. Mencken (1880-1956) American editor, essayist and philologist.

Malcomkyle

"...the Taliban and the terrorists of al Qaeda derive their main income from the prohibition-inflated value of the opium poppy....transits through Pakistan."

Drugs and terror organizations are synonymous. They use drugs to raise money to buy weapons to wage terror campaigns for the purpose of gaining the upper hand. Oftentimes these terror groups get US assistance in the form of an arms embargo; using US ships and planes blockcade on the side of whomever US policy makers decide is deemed worthy of US aid.

History has proven that sticking our nose in others' business is detrimental for our economy and our aid helps the wrong people.

Malcomkyle, according to your resource: "analysts involved in this study have examined connections between extremist groups and narcotics trafficking in the ... Lebanon ...Albania and Macedonia.."

If eradication of the drug business were on the minds of those that posture about being anti-drug champions like George H.W. Bush (Bush 41) they would be consistent in their policies. But putting on a media show and sending in our boys in a stupid mission to kidnap the president of Panama and jailing him didn't reduce drugs coming into the US by one marjuana cigarette.

Another example of inconsistency and wrong-headed US policy:

In the Yugoslavia region Bush 41 ordered a blocade of arms shipments arriving to help the independence movements of breakway nations no longer wishing to be forceably "federated" in Yugoslavia. Who benefited from US interventionsm there?
The Serbian army and red terror brigades got the greater assist from the supposed anti-drug president with his stupid, CFR directed move. {more CFR dumb moves continue}:http://search.incredimail.com/?q=cfr+ordered+bombing+of+Iran&lang=english&source=012051022105&cid=1&gc=

If fighting world-wide terrorism and the concomitant drug business is what conservatives wish to do then ending US foreign aid programs and stop interfering in the independence movements abroad would sure be a major step forward!

Thank you for the additional information

You may also be interested in the following:

Reports that show the war on drugs has failed…
http://idpc.net/publications/failure-regime-selected-publications

Reports that show alternative approaches of decriminalisation and regulation are working…
http://idpc.net/publications/alternative-strategies-selected-publications

What Can We Learn From The Portuguese Decriminalization of Illicit Drugs?…
http://bjc.oxfordjournals.org/content/50/6/999.abstract

General report on drug law reform in practice…
http://www.tni.org/report/legislative-innovation-drug-policy

The Global Commission on Drug Policy that will call on the UN to end the war on drugs…
http://www.globalcommissionondrugs.org/Documents.aspx

Drug War by the Numbers…
http://www.drugpolicy.org/facts/drug-war-numbers

linkity links

The PopTech is strong in this one.

_____________________________________________________________ I'm not too drunk to dance! It's just that people keep stepping on my hands!

True Ruk

....but the PT knew how to hyperlink.

One issue trollster, fer sure, tho.

Hhmm, I keep hearing this

* Prohibition kills more people and ruins more lives than the drugs it prohibits.

Sure would like to know how one comes by this information.

As far as I can tell, it's the folks on drugs ruining lives?

I think we would be far more successful if we worked on preventive issues such as insisting on personal responsibility at a very early age. And not glorifying the behavior in pop culture.

But I guess we cant have that, as someone is bound to get their panties all wadded up.

Seek Truth, Defend Liberty

Why are you posting nonsense?

There is a drug war going on and it's being waged against the users of all drugs, both legal and illegal. If this wasn't the case then the abusers of these drugs would be more inclined to seek help. Just wait till you need adequate pain-medication then you'll understand what I mean.

Secondly, when was the last time you heard of a shoot-out between alcohol bootleggers? have any of you neighbors been poisoned (or gone blind) from drinking black-market hooch lately?

If you support prohibition then you've helped trigger the worst crime wave in history.

If you support prohibition you've a helped create a black market with massive incentives to hook both adults and children alike.

If you support prohibition you've helped to make these dangerous substances available in schools and prisons.

If you support prohibition you've helped raise gang warfare to a level not seen since the days of alcohol bootlegging.

If you support prohibition you've helped create the prison-for-profit synergy with drug lords.

If you support prohibition you've helped remove many important civil liberties from those citizens you falsely claim to represent.

If you support prohibition you've helped put previously unknown and contaminated drugs on the streets.

If you support prohibition you've helped to escalate Murder, Theft, Muggings and Burglaries.

If you support prohibition you've helped to divert scarce law-enforcement resources away from protecting your fellow citizens from the ever escalating violence against their person or property.

If you support prohibition you've helped overcrowd the courts and prisons, thus making it increasingly impossible to curtail the people who are hurting and terrorizing others.

If you support prohibition you've helped evolve local gangs into transnational enterprises with intricate power structures that reach into every corner of society, controlling vast swaths of territory with significant social and military resources at their disposal.

If you support prohibition then you are guilty of turning the federal, state and local governments into a gargantuan organized crime syndicate, interested only in protecting it's own corrupt interests. -- The very acts for which we initially created governments to protect us from, have become institutionalized. Thanks to prohibition, government now provides 'services' at the barrel of a gun.

Her people, I have no

Her people, I have no doubt.
They haven't had a coherent thought in years.
They haven't said anything intelligent in decades.

So yes, Arianna your people are stoners and stupid.

Try and inform yourself before posting on a public forum!

Prohibition has triggered the worst crime wave in history, escalating gang warfare even beyond what was experienced in the dark-days of alcohol bootlegging.

* It has created a black market with massive incentives to hook both adults and children alike.

* It has put previously unknown and contaminated drugs on our streets.

* It has made these substances widely available even in schools and prisons.

* It has created a prison-for-profit synergy with drug lords.

* It has helped remove many important civil liberties from the very citizens it falsely claims to represent.

* It has grossly inflated the number of people on welfare who can't find employment due to their felony status.

* It has grossly escalated Murder, Kidnapping, Extortion, Theft, Muggings and Burglaries.

* It has diverted scarce law-enforcement resources away from protecting citizens from the ever escalating violence against their person or property.

* It has overcrowded the courts and prisons, thus making it increasingly impossible to curtail the people who are hurting and terrorizing others.

* It has evolved local gangs into transnational enterprises with intricate power structures that reach into every corner of society, helping them control vast swaths of territory while gifting them with significant social and military resources.

Imagine if we were to chop down every single tree on the planet as a response to our failure to prevent tree-climbing accidents. That's what our misguided drug policy looks like.

Sorry to have to tell you this...

BUT... that is the dumbest post I have ever read in defense of legalization! Do you actually believe that legalization would cause LESS of any of that crap? And btw, your tree climbing example BLOWS! Here is a better analogy: How about if we legalize MURDER, would that produce LESS murders? huh?? Sheesh!

"The enemy of my enemy is my friend, unless my friend is more evil than my enemy."

In the 1920s each major city had gangsters with machine guns

Can you guess what stopped the killing?

Kindly follow the link to this paper that determines empirically the homicide offense rate to changes in the percentage of arrests attributed to drug offenses. The empirical results obtained are consistent with a priori expectations that homicide offense rates are higher in communities that devote a greater percentage of their policing resources to the enforcement of drug laws.

http://www.cato.org/pubs/journal/cj14n3/cj14n3-8.pdf

MightyMouth, It is extremely disingenuous to compare laws that are obviously there to protect us from each other - such as those pertaining to Pedophilia, Rape and Murder, with laws solely and foolishly designed to protect individuals from themselves - such as prohibition.

While it is true that taking any drug (especially alcohol and tobacco) can sometimes indirectly affect others, this exact same argument was used to implement and painfully prolong alcohol prohibition in the US during the 1920s. Domestic violence, wife battering and child neglect were definitely not curtailed, or even slightly ameliorated during this earlier period of insanity.

Not only did Prohibition increase usage http://i.imgur.com/Ga1Gs.png but it also exacerbated all other related problems while bootleggers, just like many of our present day drug lords, became rich and powerful folk heroes as a result.

Historically, the prohibition of any mind altering substance has never succeeded in providing what is needed - which is a safer environment for the users, the addicts, their families and society at large; Prohibition always spawns far worse conditions than those it's supporters claim to be able to alleviate, so shouldn't we all be aware by now of the difference between sensible public policies designed to protect us, and those foolishly designed by despotic imbeciles to create as much mayhem as possible?

Your turn sir!

Well I must admit something....

My earlier assertion that the previous post was the dumbest I have ever seen in defense of legalization is now wrong :-(
THIS post has risen to that level!! And btw, both those links BLOW!

"The enemy of my enemy is my friend, unless my friend is more evil than my enemy."

⇒ Milk'um Cow

Why do you and Tony Bennett try to advance your cause using Whitney Houston's dead body as a prop?

⇒ Thank you Arianna

On the contrary, Arianna, Whitney seems to have lived exactly the life of legalized drugs.

Exactly. Essentially, drugs

Exactly. Essentially, drugs are as if they were legal in the entertainment industry and the music business. If you want to see what would happen to the general population under drug legalization, just look at those two industries.

Last time I checked these industries were both very successful!

You Prohibitionists dance hand in hand with every possible type of criminal one can imagine.

An unholy alliance of ignorance, greed and hate which works to destroy all our hard fought freedoms, wealth and security.

We will always have adults who are too immature to responsibly deal with tobacco alcohol, heroin amphetamines, cocaine, various prescription drugs and even food. Our answer to them should always be: "Get a Nanny, and stop turning the government into one for the rest of us!"

Nobody wants to see an end to prohibition because they want to use drugs. They wish to see proper legalized regulation because they are witnessing, on a daily basis, the dangers and futility of prohibition. 'Legalized Regulation' won't be the complete answer to all our drug problems, but it'll greatly ameliorate the crime and violence on our streets, and only then can we provide effective education and treatment.

The whole nonsense of 'a disaster will happen if we end prohibition' sentiment sums up the delusional 'chicken little' stance of those who foolishly insist on continuing down this blind alley. As if a disaster isn’t already happening. As if prohibition has ever worked.

To support prohibition is such a strange mind-set. In fact, It's outrageous insanity! --Literally not one prohibitionist argument survives scrutiny. Not one!

The only people that believe prohibition is working are the ones making a living by enforcing laws in it's name, and those amassing huge fortunes on the black market profits. This situation is wholly unsustainable, and as history has shown us, conditions will continue to deteriorate until we finally, just like our forefathers, see sense and revert back to tried and tested methods of regulation. None of these substances, legal or illegal, are ever going to go away, but we CAN decide to implement policies that do far more good than harm.

During alcohol prohibition in the 1920s, all profits went to enrich thugs and criminals. Young men died every day on inner-city streets while battling over turf. A fortune was wasted on enforcement that could have gone on treatment. On top of the budget-busting prosecution and incarceration costs, billions in taxes were lost. Finally the economy collapsed. Sound familiar?

So should the safety and freedom of the rest of us be compromised because of the few who cannot control themselves?

Many of us no longer think it should!

"Proper legalized regulation"?

Light up another doobie, Cheech.  How many die, who follow all the directions(regulation) for using prescription meds. 

But, you're right, I'd legalize everything for folks like you, once you sign a waiver that you'll just rot away, you won't insist on hospitalization, no public assistance, no bridge card, no welfare, no "free " cell phone, oh, and you can't own a car, or drive anyone else's.  If you're down with that, have at it.  Suck on that doobie til your head caves in, snort those lines til your nose spontaneously combusts, just do it on a deserted island off the coast of Kalifonication, mmm-kay?

To re-elect Obama would be like the Titanic backing up and hitting the iceberg again.

Using personal abuse just means you have no argument!

Prescription drugs kill over 200,000 Americans every year-- even when taken as directed and not abused. The drug war is all about preventing people from using the non-toxic alternative, marijuana.

Partnership for a Drug Free America

Sources of Funding from 1988-91
Extracted from Federal Tax Returns

(figures are approximate)

Pharmaceutical Firms

J. Seward Johnson, Sr. Charitable Trusts --- $1.1 million
Du Pont --- 125,000
Proctor and Gamble Fund --- 120,000
Bristol-Myers Squibb Foundation --- 115,000
Johnson & Johnson --- 100,000
Merck Foundation --- 85,000
Hoffman-LaRoche --- 75,000

Tobacco and Liquor Firms
Phillip Morris --- 125,000
Anheuser-Busch --- 100,000
RJ Reynolds --- 100,000
American Brands --- 100,000

Prohibition is nothing less than a grotesque dystopian nightmare; if you support it you must be either ignorant, stupid, brainwashed, insane or corrupt.

Final Report of the Latin American Commission on Drugs and Democracy…
http://www.drogasedemocracia.org/English/Destaques.asp?IdRegistro=8

General report on drug law reform in practice…
http://www.tni.org/report/legislative-innovation-drug-policy

Lessons for Creating Fair and Successful Drug Policies
http://www.cato.org/pubs/wtpapers/greenwald_whitepaper.pdf

I thought amateur hour here didn't start till 5 pm EST.

Care to back up that "over 200,000 Americans die every year" claim?

And, no, you can't use Alex Jones as a source.

May I remind you that personal abuse is no argument!

Prescription drugs kill some 200,000 Americans every year.

http://www.vanityfair.com/politics/features/2011/01/deadly-medicine-2011...

"An estimated 770,000 people are injured or die each year in hospitals from adverse drug events (ADEs),4 defined as an injury resulting from medical intervention related to a drug. Not all, but many, IF NOT MOST, of these adverse drug events are preventable."

http://www7.nationalacademies.org/ocga/testimony/Patient_Safety_and_Medi...

* The number of deaths from drug poisonings in the U.S. has increased sixfold since 1980.

* In 2008, more than 41,000 people in the U.S. died from intentional and accidental poisonings - Nine out of 10 were due to drugs. These deaths exceeded the number of deaths from automobile accidents making poisoning the leading cause of injury death. (CDC’s National Center for Health Statistics 1980 to 2008)

Fully 40% of these deaths in 2008 involved the use of prescription opioid pain relievers such as codeine, fentanyl, hydrocodone, morphine, and oxycodone, (was 25% in 1999) - In 2008, Cocaine was involved in about 5,100 deaths and heroin was involved in about 3,000 deaths.

http://www.webmd.com/pain-management/news/20111220/deaths-drug-poisoning...

* PRESCRIPTION PAINKILLERS: drugs like oxycodone and hydrocodone, the main ingredients in Oxycontin and Vicodin, landed 305,885 Americans in emergency rooms in 2008 -- more than double the 144,644 visits in 2004, (2010 study by Samsha and the CDC)

Overdose deaths involving these opioid pain relievers (oxycodone and hydrocodone; and synthetic narcotics such as fentanyl and propoxyphene) now exceed deaths from heroin and cocaine combined (Centers for Disease Control and Prevention)
Prescription drug overdoses have been increasing in the United States over the last decade, and by 2008 had reached 36,450 deaths - almost as many as from motor vehicle crashes (39,973).

http://www.acep.org/MobileArticle.aspx?id=82888&coll_id=720&parentid=740

* VIOXX: On January 24, 2005, the medical journal The Lancet published on its website a report on Vioxx risks that was previously blocked by the FDA. The study found that Vioxx may have caused as many as 140,000 cases of heart disease in the United States and as many as 56,000 deaths during the five years that it was on the market. The newly published study of 1.4 million patients shows that that low doses of Vioxx increased the risk of heart disease by about 50%, and higher doses increased it by 358%.

http://www.vioxxnews.com/

* ACETAMINOPHEN: ( found in more than 300 products with sales in the billions of dollars annually) overdoses are the leading cause of acute liver failure (ALF) in the United States, Great Britain and most of Europe. Acetaminophen toxicity accounts for approximately 50% of all cases of ALF in the United States and carries a 30% mortality. -More than 100,000 calls to Poison Control Centers, 56,000 emergency room visits, 2,600 hospitalizations and nearly 500 deaths are attributed to acetaminophen in the United States annually.

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/hep.21926/pdf

* ANTIDEPRESSANTS: The respected journal, PLoS ONE, published a study in June 2010, showing that men who are depressed and take trycyclic, SSRI, or any other antidepressants die at a significantly greater rate than those who don't. - Performed in Australia, the study followed 5,276 men aged 68-88.

"The results of this study indicate that the 6-year adjusted mortality hazard is twice as high for men with depression compared with non-depressed men and that the use of antidepressants is associated with an independent rise in mortality of 30%. .. We found that antidepressant treatment increases the mortality hazard of men by 30%, and this association is independent of the presence of clinically significant depression. .. It is also important to consider that the use of antidepressants has been associated with numerous potentially harmful effects, some of which may increase morbidity and mortality. For example, antidepressant treatment has been linked to increased risk of injurious and non-injurious falls in cross-sectional and longitudinal studies, and there is some evidence that the use of common antidepressants increases the risk bleeding in various body systems, including the central nervous system, as well as the risk of incident diabetes. In addition, recently published findings from the Nurses' Health Study showed an increase in the number of sudden cardiac deaths associated with the use of antidepressants, a result that is consistent with our observation of an excess of cardiovascular deaths amongst men using antidepressants."

http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0011266

Postmenopausal Women on antidepressants are 45% more likely than those not on such medication to have a stroke, and 32% more likely to die of any cause. - There is an increased likelihood of Hemorrhagic strokes (bleeding in the brain) which is possibly the result of the anti-clotting effect of selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors (SSRIs) which are most frequently prescribed for depression. The authors of the study noted that since post-menopausal women make up the largest segment of patients in the United States on antidepressants, the resulting increases in strokes and deaths across the country could be significant.

http://archinte.ama-assn.org/cgi/content/short/169/22/2128?home

A study published in 2009 found that SSRIs interfered with the breast cancer medication tamoxifen, with tumors more than twice as likely to return after two years in women taking antidepressants compared with those taking tamoxifen alone.

Children whose mothers take Zoloft, Prozac, or similar antidepressants during pregnancy are twice as likely as other children to have a diagnosis of autism or a related disorder.

http://edition.cnn.com/2011/HEALTH/07/04/antidepressant.pregnancy.autism...

Good evening malc

You must be in the street corner drug retail sales industry.

 

Jesus Loves You so much He died for you

No personal abuse.

I'm down with every pothead, stoner, crackhead, methhead, heroin junkie and cokehead being able to light up, snort, huff, shoot, or whatever they want into their lungs, up their nose, into their veins or in their ears, if they want.  Like I said, just sign the waiver, none of my tax money pays for it, it doesn't pay for your hospitalization when you OD, it doesn't keep you alive when you get stabbed, shot or strangled by one of your coked-out buddies, you can't receive a dime in public assistance, and you can only socialize with like minded people.  After all, you're so much superior than anyone who disagrees with you, we wouldn't want you to lower yourself by having to mingle with us plebian drones.

So, find your island, and have at it. 

No argument=personal abuse?  After the tripe you posted? "if you support it you must be either ignorant, stupid, brainwashed, insane or corrupt".  No personal abuse there, right Cheech?

To re-elect Obama would be like the Titanic backing up and hitting the iceberg again.

I don't use drugs, not even caffeine or nicotine.

You're forgetting how much it's costing you now:

http://www.drugsense.org/cms/wodclock

Wouldn't you prefer the 'dope/coke/meth heads' and dealers to pay taxes instead of the rest of us having to pay to chase them down, process and incarcerate them?

Based on the unalterable proviso that drug use among all echelons of society is essentially an unstoppable and ongoing human behavior which has been with us since the dawn of time, any serious reading on the subject of past attempts at any form of drug prohibition would point most normal thinking people in the direction of sensible regulation.

By its very nature, prohibition cannot fail but create a vast increase in criminal activity, and rather than preventing society from descending into anarchy, it actually fosters an anarchic business model - the international Drug Trade. Any decisions concerning quality, quantity, distribution and availability are then left in the hands of unregulated, anonymous and ruthless drug dealers, who are interested only in the huge profits involved. Thus the allure of this reliable and lucrative industry, with it's enormous income potential that consistently outweighs the risks associated with the illegal operations that such a trade entails, will remain with us until we are collectively forced to admit the obvious.

The only thing prohibition successfully does is prohibit regulation & taxation while turning even our schools and prisons into black markets for drugs. - Legalized Regulation would mean the opposite.

God Bless and thanks for playing!

Maybe marijuana

How do you legalize crack cocaine, PCP, Speed or LSD where behavior under the influence is more or less unpredictable. True, alcohol was prohibited that failure was spectacular but alcohol is a different animal than other drugs. It is an ancient socially acceptable drug used commonly by many in social settings. Again true there are alcoholics and erratic alcoholic induced behaviors that are violent and unpredictable and the economic and human cost is inordinately high. How is the government going to regulate opiods which are almost 100 percent addictive unlike alcohol or marijuana. I will give opiods one thing though most times the addict's behavior only becomes erratic when denied the drug. On the drug basically they go to sleep. At one time cocaine, marijuana, and morphine were legal and they showed up in soda pop, patent medicines (Laudanum) apparently the ready access of these drugs caused such a health and societal problem that the government felt compelled to ban them.

Marijuana would become unprofitable on the black market as it is very inexpensive to grow so it would be priced like a crop with production similar to cigarettes but how will the government set the THC content. Will they sell Hashish? Will high THC marijuanas be sold on the black market. I am sorry but legalization may just open up a pandora's box of unintended consequences. Believe me I hate the obscene profits that accrue to these psychopathic drug kingpins and their cartels. But at least we know the costs of the status quo I couldn't even begin to calculate the effects of legalization.

"Somehow, I told you so, just doesn't quite say it." Will Smith in 'I, Robot.'

Many European countries have already regulated heroin

Effective legalized regulation doesn't mean a free-for-all - that's what we have now in the form of prohibition!

http://www.bag.admin.ch/themen/drogen/00042/00629/00798/01191/index.html...

Results

In many cases, patients’ physical and mental health has improved, their housing situation has become considerably more stable, and they have gradually managed to find employment. Numerous participants have managed to reduce their debts. In most cases, contacts with addicts and the drug scene have decreased. Consumption of non-prescribed substances declined significantly in the course of treatment.

Dramatic changes have been seen in the situation regarding crime. While the proportion of patients who obtained their income from illegal or borderline activities at the time of enrollment was 70%, the figure after 18 months of HAT was only 10%.

Each year, between 180 and 200 patients discontinue HAT. Of these patients, 35-45% are transferred to methadone maintenance, and 23-27% to abstinence-based treatment.

The average costs per patient-day at outpatient treatment centers in 1998 came to CHF 51. The overall economic benefit – based on savings in criminal investigations and prison terms and on improvements in health – was calculated to be CHF 96. After deduction of costs, the net benefit is CHF 45 per patient-day.

Transform's outstanding book titled, After the War on Drugs: Blueprints for Regulation, provides specific proposals for how drugs could be regulated in the real world.

The book is available for free online. If you would like to read it then here it is: http://www.tdpf.org.uk/blueprint%20download.htm

It doesn't take much imagination to realize that most of the 'at present prohibited' (available 24/7 at a dealer near you) drugs are derived from fast growing weeds like the cannabis plant, the poppy and the coca bush. These can all be cultivated legally and easily in many different regions on our planet without the aid of terrorist organizations.

http://free-download-ebooks.com/Search/opium

http://www.weedfarmer.com/cannabis/

http://www.lycaeum.org/~mulga/coca.html

The at-present illegal (non-patentable) Drugs may well have risks, but the results of their use are clearly not nearly as negative as prohibition itself.

We're talking deaths, broken families, economic waste and "loss of rights". The vast majority of the people who are suffering and dying in this war are not suffering and dying from the drugs themselves, but from prohibition.

When illegal drug dealers fight over turf or against government forces, their neighbors or innocent by-standers are often killed in the process. When drug users are killed by tainted drugs, it is due to prohibition. When they die from overdoses because they were afraid to seek help, it is also due prohibition. When our streets become over-run by thugs, it is due to prohibition. When terrorists and criminals are gifted the 300 - 500,000 million dollar market in narcotics, it is also due to prohibition.

Lessons for Creating Fair and Successful Drug Policies
http://www.cato.org/pubs/wtpapers/greenwald_whitepaper.pdf

Researchers led by Professor David Nutt, a former chief drugs adviser to the British government, asked drug-harm experts to rank 20 drugs (legal and illegal) on 16 measures of harm to the user and to wider society, such as damage to health, drug dependency, economic costs and crime. Alcohol scored 72 out of a possible 100, far more damaging than heroin (55) or crack cocaine (54). It is the most harmful to others by a wide margin, and is ranked fourth behind heroin, crack, and methamphetamine (crystal meth) for harm to the individual.

http://www.economist.com/blogs/dailychart/2010/11/drugs_cause_most_harm

Apart from the fact that legal drugs kill far more people than all the illegal drugs combined, debating whether a particular drug is harmless or not is missing the whole point. Are drugs like Heroin, Meth or Alcohol dangerous? It simply doesn't matter, because if we prohibit them then we sure as hell know that it makes a bad situation far worse. If someone wants to attempt to enhance or destroy their lives with particular medicines or poisons, that should be their business, not anybody else's. Their lives aren't ours to direct. And anyway, who wants to give criminals, terrorists and corrupt law enforcement agents a huge un-taxed, endless revenue stream?

A great many of us are slowly but surely wising up to the fact that the best avenue towards realistically dealing with drug use and addiction is through proper regulation which is what we already do with alcohol & tobacco, clearly two of our most dangerous mood altering substances. But for those of you whose ignorant and irrational minds traverse a fantasy plane of existence, you will no doubt remain sorely upset with any type of solution that does not seem to lead to your absurd and unattainable utopia of a drug free society.

To take the profit out of heroin

I thought my comments were rather tame compared to others and again you are talking out your ass. I was a narcotics officer in the 80's so my expertise is rather dated but I do know what I am talking about. We had no illusions that we would have a drug free utopia and no one here says that a drug free utopia is even attainable you just jumped to some weird liberal conclusion and I wished there was a way to take the profit out of drugs which is evil. If you read my post you see that at one time several powerful drugs were legal and the government was so concerned with the problems associated with that "innocent" use that they were banned outright. . But to take the profit out of heroin trafficking the government would have to dispense the heroin (which maybe they do in the form of methadone) which is 100 percent addictive and no government is going to do that so you would have to be addicted already on high priced heroin to get any assistance from the Government. If you had read my comments heroin ,in my opinion, and if the addiction can be maintained cheaply, not that inherently dangerous to society and is relatively benign as all an addict does is go to sleep. The problem with heroin is when the drug is denied and the junkie needs money for his/her next fix where the criminal behaviors manifest themselves. Again if you had read my comment before spewing your righteous BS I stated that the prohibition of alcohol was a complete failure giving rise to powerful crime families but alcohol is a special case and its use is ancient and socially acceptable and common. Prohibition was doomed to failure. The road to hell was paved with good intentions because alcohol addiction was a serious problem in that era. That does not mean there is not a high human and economic cost in alcohol addiction with anti-social behavior and alcohol induced violence and this is a legal, highly regulated drug, and relatively cheap which is allowed. I am restating my comments which I don't want to do. But I am far from a utopian as you wrongly claim but feel that legalization of some drugs, with their either highly addictive qualities or unpredictable behaviors is not going to happen.

"Somehow, I told you so, just doesn't quite say it." Will Smith in 'I, Robot.'

You idiot

What Bennet was talking about and what happened to Whitney are two totally different things, you idiot Arianna.

Bennet's just looking to legalize Mary Jane, Whitney died from an OD of LEGAL drugs.

Ugh!  Buncha morons!

-Jon

Pay attention - Bennett called for the legalization of all drugs

If you support the Kool-Aid mass suicide cult of prohibition, and erroneously believe that you can win a war without logic and practical solutions, then prepare yourself for even more death, tortured corpses, corruption, terrorism, sickness, imprisonment, economic tribulation, unemployment and the complete loss of the rule of law.

The only thing prohibition successfully does is prohibit regulation & taxation while turning even our schools and prisons into black markets for drugs. Legalized Regulation would mean the opposite!

Prohibition is nothing less than a grotesque dystopian nightmare; if you support it you must be either ignorant, stupid, brainwashed, insane or corrupt.

"A man with conviction is a hard man to change. Tell him you disagree and he turns away. Show him facts or figures and he questions your sources. Appeal to logic and he fails to see your point."
-- Leon Festinger

"ignorant, stupid, brainwashed, insane or corrupt".

Way to advance a reasoned discussion of your point of view. That's the way to make a point, and convince others that your point of view is rational and can lead to intelligent discussion. You really need to stop lighting up in the bathroom and go to class with a somewhat clear head.

To re-elect Obama would be like the Titanic backing up and hitting the iceberg again.

Legalizing drugs is out of the question.

While I know there are many libertarians on this board, legalization of drugs has not been shown to be effective. Witness the re-criminalization of even minor drug offenses in the Netherlands.

The other facet is that most of the newer drugs of abuse have very, very dangerous side effects and a very low therapeutic index (the ratio or multiplier of the top therapeutic dose to the lowest lethal dose).

Extreme high potency narcotics like hydromorphone, fentanyl/derivatives and oxycodone pose a true public health threat. There is also the extreme variation of therapeutic response in patients, meaning that every patient responds differently. What may be a normal therapeutic dose for an experienced opioid patient like a chornic cancer patient is very, very different than an opioid-naive patient like someone taking Vicodin the first time following a root canal.

The same goes for other non-opioid narcotics like benzodiazepines and other forms of sedative/hypnotic agents. These get even more confusing, and as some of these medications have commonly accepted therapeutic value in treating a number of different psychiatric and neurological diseases, again we have the problem with wide variation in therapeutic response and degree/timing of exposure.

We have enough problems with drivers who are intoxicated on alcohol, but to add even more substances that could cause impairment above and beyond what we already see in healthcare is unthinkable to me as a physician.

Nowadays, since the research

Nowadays, since the research comparing the effectiveness of Vicodin versus Ibuprofen after tooth extraction, you may just get Ibuprofen after root canal.

I still shake my head that the FDA removes certain narcotics that are popularly abused only to replace them with equivalent or greater potency narcotics that become popular for abuse. Newer is not necessarily better and addicts figure out what's good without the FDA.

Was the "breath spray fentanyl" sales rep around yet?

I will not mention the product or manufacturer name, but I have been bombarded by the local sales rep for this new dosing form for about a month. I don't even do that much pain management--my PM&R colleagues do, but I don't.

Hope you don't have to deal with these fools. Good Lord they are obnoxious!

No

They know there's little lucre visiting FP's.

I don't mind appropriately behaved drug reps. Most are that I come in contact with. I recall reading an interesting expose by a former drug rep on the manipulative strategies they are taught to utilize depending on the behavior of the targeted physician. Interesting reading.

The Netherlands has not re-criminalized

There is only talk of banning certain nationalities from visiting coffee-shops or hash-bars, so what are you hoping to gain by posting an outright lie?

While bullets fly into El Paso and bodies pile up in the streets of Juarez, and thugs with gold-plated AK-47s and albino tiger pens are beheading federal officials and dissolving their torsos in vats of acid, here are some facts concerning the peaceful situation in Holland. --Please save a copy and use it as a reference when debating prohibitionists who claim the exact opposite concerning reality as presented here below:

Cannabis-coffee-shops are not only restricted to the Capital of Holland, Amsterdam. They can be found in more than 50 cities and towns across the country. At present, only the retail sale of five grams is tolerated, so production remains criminalized. The mayors of a majority of the cities with coffeeshops have long urged the national government to also decriminalize the supply side.

A poll taken last year indicated that some 50% of the Dutch population thinks cannabis should be fully legalized while only 25% wanted a complete ban. Even though 62% of the voters said they had never taken cannabis. An earlier poll also indicated 80% opposing coffee shop closures.

It is true that the number of coffee shops has fallen from its peak of around 2,500 throughout the country to around 700 now. The problems, if any, concern mostly marijuana-tourists and are largely confined to cities and small towns near the borders with Germany and Belgium. These problems, mostly involve traffic jams, and are the result of cannabis prohibition in neighboring countries. Public nuisance problems with the coffee shops are minimal when compared with bars, as is demonstrated by the rarity of calls for the police for problems at coffee shops.

While it is true that lifetime and past-month use rates did increase back in the seventies and eighties, the critics shamefully fail to report that there were comparable and larger increases in cannabis use in most, if not all, neighboring countries which continued complete prohibition.

According to the World Health Organization only 19.8 percent of the Dutch have used marijuana, less than half the U.S. figure.
In Holland 9.7% of young adults (aged 15 to 24) consume soft drugs once a month, comparable to the level in Italy (10.9%) and Germany (9.9%) and less than in the UK (15.8%) and Spain (16.4%). Few transcend to becoming problem drug users (0.44%), well below the average (0.52%) of the compared countries.

The WHO survey of 17 countries finds that the United States has the highest usage rates for nearly all illegal substances.

In the U.S. 42.4 percent admitted having used marijuana. The only other nation that came close was New Zealand, another bastion of get-tough policies, at 41.9 percent. No one else was even close. The results for cocaine use were similar, with the U.S. again leading the world by a large margin.

Even more striking is what the researchers found when they asked young adults when they had started using marijuana. Again, the U.S. led the world, with 20.2 percent trying marijuana by age 15. No other country was even close, and in Holland, just 7 percent used marijuana by 15 -- roughly one-third of the U.S. figure.

In 1998, the US Drug Czar General Barry McCaffrey claimed that the U.S. had less than half the murder rate of the Netherlands. That’s drugs, he explained. The Dutch Central Bureau for Statistics immediately issued a special press release explaining that the actual Dutch murder rate is 1.8 per 100,000 people, or less than one-quarter the U.S. murder rate.

Here’s a very recent article by a psychiatrist from Amsterdam, exposing Drug Czar misinformation. Just put the following sentence in GOOGLE: "Amsterdam Psychiatrist Blasts US Drug Czars for Distortions, Fear-Mongering"

The Netherlands also provides heroin on prescription under tight regulation to about 1500 long-term heroin addicts for whom methadone maintenance treatment has failed.

The Dutch justice ministry announced, in May 2009, the closure of eight prisons and cut 1,200 jobs in the prison system. A decline in crime has left many cells empty. There's simply not enough criminals.

An "outright lie"? Do you sit on a NIDA advisory board?

Do you talk to international drug control officials? I'm a psychiatrist, Malc. Please don't pull that article out as some kind of proof. It is not. It is that psychiatrist's opinion only--it is not definite proof of anything except what the author chose to include.

Unless you have ever treated a patient undergoing severe withdrawal from chronic high-dose opioid dependence, or a severe chronic long term alcoholic who just happens to be intoxicated with meth and PCP, then I really do not care to hear the predigested NORML crap that most drugheads spout. When you treat patients who experience life-threatening withdrawal requiring the use of general inhaled anesthetics to control the severe seizures, or when you have had to tell a family that their kid didn't make it through acute meth intoxication due to cardiac arrest, they maybe you will have any credibility.

The Netherlands is currently going through a debate about the existence of the coffee shops selling marijuana and hashish for the simple reason that they do not wish to become solely an international drug and sex vacation destination. The Amsterdam City Council has proposed limiting the coffee houses to Dutch citizens and nationals only precisely for the trade in harder drugs that is occuring in different areas of the city. Marijuana and hashish were never officially made legal, just the tolerance of it became official policy. It is not necessarily the residents of Amsterdam that cause the problems, it is usually the tourists (and particularly the Irish, Scots and English) who have been troublesome to the local authorities.

Heroin has always been legal in the Netherlands for the most part, The government never made it an illegal substance, but did put in place substantial controls to see that it was not used as a general analgesic except in the most extraordinary circumstances.

Please do not presume to lecture me about a health issue that plagues so many of my patients.

Every thing I posted about holland can be verified!

So unless you can prove otherwise, I'm afraid the rest of us may have to regard you as a charlatan.

Here are some of those facts again, but with links:

* A poll taken last year indicated that some 50% of the Dutch population thinks cannabis should be fully legalized while only 25% wanted a complete ban. Even though 62% of the voters said they had never taken cannabis. An earlier poll also indicated 80% opposing coffee shop closures.
http://www.dutchnews.nl/news/archives/2010/02/public_split_on_cannabis_l...

* What the researchers found when they asked young adults when they had started using marijuana. Again, the U.S. led the world, with 20.2 percent trying marijuana by age 15. No other country was even close, and in Holland, just 7 percent used marijuana by 15 -- roughly one-third of the U.S. figure.
http://www.alternet.org/drugs/90295/

* The Dutch justice ministry announced, in May 2009, the closure of eight prisons and cut 1,200 jobs in the prison system. A decline in crime has left many cells empty. There's simply not enough criminals
http://www.nrc.nl/international/article2246821.ece/Netherlands_to_close_...

* For further information, kindly check out this very informative FAQ provided by Radio Netherlands: http://www.rnw.nl/english/article/faq-soft-drugs-netherlands
or go to this page: http://www.rnw.nl/english/dossier/Soft-drugs

"The rest of US"??? LOL.

For anyone who believes a lifetime of 24/7 pot smoking is harmless, I present Exhibit A.

OK, Exhibit M.

True SoL*

The "rest of us" are too darn sober.  Who else but a troll would call drsam a "charlatan"?

Is the THC causing you some vision problems?

I did not question the links you provided except the opinion piece from the Dutch psychiatrist. That is merely opinion, not a valid clinical study verifying practice guidelines. It is just an individual's opinion.

From your last reference on faq-soft-drugs-netherlands, that document specifically talks about the Dutch government's desire to do stem drug tourism, primarily due to complaints from their neighboring countries and from local residents. Even though Job Cohen has said Amsterdam will continue to permit marijuana sales, you miss the point that the Dutch government continues to look for ways to limit these shops to specific areas using the most potent weapon available--zoning regulations. The drive to make all of these establishments membership only and depriving foreign nationals of the right to join these clubs is something which the Dutch government coalition is giving serious consideration. In effect, that will close off the soft drug trade. As that article also pointed out, Cannabis does remain illegal. The Netherlands is party to several treaties that require it to make certain substances illegal, and Cannabis is just one of them. This is not decriminalization but a certain level of tolerance. From a legal viewpoint, decriminalization would mean legalization. So Cannabis remains illegal under Dutch law.

So in your zeal or high state (whichever may apply), you misread the article. This is quite standard for addicts which I treat who try to rationalize their own behavior based solely on what is legal in another country. Well, cannabis is not legal in the Netherlands and the tolerance which the governments at the municipal and national level display towards the issue is quite subject to change. The attitude is they don't want to be a drug vacation destination, and the placement of even more restrictions at the national level is something which the local governments cannot change.

As for calling me a charlatan, before you go about casting aspersions on others, you may wish to read and comprehend fully your own references. That is called shoddy research, but then again perhaps the bong smoke got into your eyes.

And, of course, the requisite statement about the ---

"targeting" of minorities in the drug war.

Famed (or infamous) bank robber Willie Sutton reportedly said, when asked why he robbed banks - "Because that's where the money is".

Minorities, in the cross hairs again because of racism.

If and when Blonde decides to compile that list:

"The War on Drugs" - Just another code phrase bigoted whites use against minorities in order to camouflage the inherent racist tendencies of Caucasian Americans.

MD

"The credibility of the story is undermined by the selection of sources." - (h/t Jer)

The racial disparities in arrests and incarceration are shameful

The following facts are indisputable:

* Our heavily militarized Police force is effectively laying siege to black neighborhoods. This is not happening with the same force and zeal in predominantly white neighborhoods.

* (2009) Afro-Americans do not use drugs at a perceivable higher rate (9.6%) than white Americans (8.8%)

* Afro-Americans are being stopped and searched at a far higher frequency than white Americans.

* Afro-Americans represent just 12.2 % of the population but are 37% of those arrested for drug offenses.

* Afro-Americans comprise 53% of drug convictions but are just 12.2% of the population.

* Afro-Americans comprise 67 percent of all people imprisoned for drug offenses but are just 12.2% of the population.

* One out of three young African American (ages 18 to 35) men are in prison or on some form of supervised release.

* There are more African American men in prison than in college. That's a four times higher percentage of Black men in prison than South Africa at the height of apartheid. 

In July 2011 The NAACP passed an "historic" resolution, calling for an end to drug prohibition. Very soon, many other civic organizations, the entire faith community and all persons of good conscience will join the many who are already demanding that this horrific assault on the African-American community be halted immediately. What about YOU?

Whatever the exact dynamics involved, these racial disparities are a direct result of drug-prohibition and are quite clearly unacceptable. This dangerous and costly moronothon has done nothing but result in generations of incarcerated and disenfranchised Afro Americans. Any citizen not doing their utmost to help reverse this perverse injustice may duly hang their head in shame.

"The arc of the moral universe is long but it bends toward justice"
- Martin Luther King Jr

"If you are neutral in situations of injustice, you have chosen the side of the oppressor."
- Desmond Tutu

What pure crap. Quite an

What pure crap.

Quite an interesting lot of "facts" you have there. Or should I say propaganda.

Of course what you leave out is the fact that most of the violent crimes that occur in a city occur in minority area. So if that is where most of the crime is, where are police supposed to do their enforcement?

Would it make more sense if we operated and concentrated in areas of the city that have little to no crime rate??

See, it's the difference between book knowledge and reality. You can drudge up any propaganda points you want. In reality, that's how it is.

End to drug prohibition? THAT'S the answer? Hey genius, in case you haven't noticed Mexico has legalized "personal" amounts of marijuana, heroin, cocaine, etc. and they have one of the biggest drug wars on the face of the earth raging inside their borders. Again, the difference between looking up stats and the real world.

I show you verifiable facts and you call them crap???

Mexico has only de-criminalized very small amounts and for personal use only. So please get back to us when you're prepared to tell the truth!

Maybe you're a police officer, a prison guard or a local politician. Possibly you're scared of losing employment, overtime-pay, the many kick-backs and those regular fat bribes. But what good will any of that do you once our society has followed Mexico over the dystopian abyss of dismembered bodies, vats of acid and marauding thugs carrying gold-plated AK-47s with leopard-skinned gunstocks?

Kindly allow us to forgo the next level of your sycophantic prohibition-engendered mayhem.

Prohibition Prevents Regulation : Legalize, Regulate and Tax!

Oh please....

"Mexico has only de-criminalized very small amounts and for personal use only. So please get back to us when you're prepared to tell the truth!"

That's exactly what I said, you half wit!! What is it exactly you want? The legalization of possessing tons of cocaine???

"Maybe you're a police officer, a prison guard or a local politician."

Yes, I am a police officer. What gave it away, genius?

"Possibly you're scared of losing employment, overtime-pay, the many kick-backs and those regular fat bribes."

LOL!!! Yeah, you got it, champ. I drive my Ferrari to the docks where I get on board my yacht and cruise around the bay for a few hours, eating caviar and drinking champagne. Then I drive home to my mansion on 35 acres of land. You're so smart!!!

"Kindly allow us to forgo the next level of your sycophantic prohibition-engendered mayhem."

Gosh, you sure know a lot of them fancy words, don't ya?????

Proof positive that education to does not make you smart, thanks. I'm curious, you certainly have your mind made up about my profession, which I am quite proud of, tell me what do you do for a living??/

You falsely claimed that Mexico had legalized all drugs

De-criminalizing very small amounts for personal use will of course have no effect on the criminality generated by supplying the US with a large proportion of the drugs it uses - so what was your point exactly?

You are a prohibitionist, which makes you therefore co-responsible for the more than 50,000 Mexicans murdered due to YOUR Drug War during the last 5 years alone. That mega violence is heading our way fast. Re-legalizing/regulating any, if not all, of the prohibited/easily-accessible street drugs is the only practical way to cut off the enormous flow of cash that is feeding terrorism, gangsterism and "off the scale" government corruption. This is about protecting ourselves and our families.

The present drug laws are making matters far worse than they would ever be under proper government regulation of these dangerous substances. Your support of drug prohibition provides the money gangs use to buy guns, and the money that the enemies of this great nation use to finance hijackings & bombings. Taking away their drug money by regulating drugs for adult use will strike a blow to crime at every level. This is none other than sound public policy.

Surely you know by now that Eliot Ness never put the bootleggers out of business. Repeal and a regulated market for alcohol did that in short order. There hasn't been a shootout over beer routes since 1933.

It’s time for you to wise up, and help curtail the dangerous expansions of federal police powers, the encroachments on individual liberties, the increasing government expenditure devoted to enforcing the unworkable policy of drug prohibition.

Or would you prefer to still struggle with confusing the consequences of drug misuse from those of drug prohibition, while we all go to Hades in a hand cart? All of the above mentioned problems, including the economic recession are here to stay until we regulate drugs, and prohibition is not regulation, it's is a hideous waking nightmare for all of us and our families.

Apparently English is a

Apparently English is a second language for you. What i said was:

"in case you haven't noticed Mexico has legalized "personal" amounts of marijuana, heroin, cocaine, etc"

I was 100% correct. Observe: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/08/21/mexico-decriminalizes-sma_n_264...

"Mexico decriminalized small amounts of marijuana, cocaine and heroin on Friday – a move that prosecutors say makes sense even in the midst of the government's grueling battle against drug traffickers."

Yeah, it makes a lot of sense, because its working llike a charm, eh malcolm???

What was my point? My point is that you're a liar. I thought that was pretty clear.

It is clear that you are a nutcase who posts (when the links work) to 9/11 truthers and people who spew the same nonsense that you do. Will decriminalizeing murder stop murders?? Will decrimnializing drunk driving stop drunk driving? Your opinions are that of a child, not someone who lives in the real world.

"There hasn't been a shootout over beer routes since 1933." No, but there have been shootouts over rival liquor houses and the money that goes with it. Again, real world versus computer world.

"It’s time for you to wise up, and help curtail the dangerous expansions of federal police powers, the encroachments on individual liberties, the increasing government expenditure devoted to enforcing the unworkable policy of drug prohibition."

Its time for you to grow up Ron Paulbot. For yours is more dangerous than you can possibly imagine. Try going out into the real world for a little while, you might learn something.

The recession is here because of drugs being illegal??? You're an idiot, plain and simple.

Also, you neve answered my question about what you do for a living, coward. How about it?

De-criminalization of personal possession solves very little

Many countries have already done this. It helps to a small degree, but hardly if your a 'transit country' like Mexico which still has very strict laws against importation, production, and sales.

During alcohol prohibition (1919-1933) personal possession of alcohol was also not a criminal offense. Likewise, that did very little to prevent the prohibition-induced mega violence.

Mexico's gruesome civil war is clearly a product of our misguided and failed policy of Drug Prohibition.

Alcohol prohibition was a tremendous failure due to the incredible amount of crime and disorder it created. Human nature hasn't changed since the 1920s and early 30s. Then, the distribution of liquor was turned over to a whole new group of criminal entrepreneurs. Now, due to the drug war, dangerous mind altering substances are again being manufactured, smuggled and sold by criminals. Prohibition has turned Mexico into a civil war zone. Our intentions in prohibiting these substances may well be good, but the result of our inability to recognize the futility of such an action will both deepen and prolong the agony caused by this useless and dangerous policy.

The future depends on whether or not enough of us are willing to take a long look at the tragic results of prohibition. If we continue to skirt the primary issue while refusing to address the root problem then we can expect no other result than a worsening of the current dire situation. - Good intentions, wishful thinking and pseudoscience are no match for the immutable realities of human nature.

So may we have some realism from all of you now, on how to go about reclaiming our streets and stopping this mayhem? Please start making an honest effort to address the root cause of the present horrific mess and the high proliferation of "well funded" violent Cartels --the failed regime of drug prohibition.

God Bless!

Best Line Of The Day

Thanks for the following laugh, NC Cop:

Troll:  "Maybe you're a police officer, a prison guard or a local politician."

NC Cop"Yes, I am a police officer. What gave it away, genius?"

I've long said that criminals by nature are stupid.  Marijuana adds another dimension of dumb.
 

My pleasure! I must admit it

My pleasure! I must admit it was quite easy with malcolm. I almost feel guilty......almost. :)

For NC Cop*

As has been noted by NBers,   we need a "like" button.

Malcolm

Is this a plea on your part for a congratulatory pat on the back?

Yours is the party that says poverty should be comfortable. Pay people to be comfortable, and what do they have left but a lot of time on their hands..

I have no political affiliations - so what's your point?

Have you ever watched the Drug War Clock as it ticks away all our hard earned tax dollars? http://www.drugsense.org/wodclock.htm

Or the US Debt Clock http://www.usdebtclock.org/

Alcohol prohibition in the US run from 1919 to 1933 - Now google 'The Great Wall Street Crash' and see when that happened!

During alcohol prohibition, all profits went to enrich thugs and criminals. Young men died every day on inner-city streets while battling over turf. A fortune was wasted on enforcement that could have gone on treatment. On top of the budget-busting prosecution and incarceration costs, billions in taxes were lost. Finally the economy collapsed. Sound familiar?

http://1929crash.com/

If you have liberty then expect prosperity, but there’s most definitely no chance of prosperity without liberty.

You're the finest example of liberal white guilt I've ever seen.

I took me two minutes for find this exact same legalization crap you're posting here all over the net - you want to argue for 100% decriminalization of drugs? Fine, do it. Just don't play the effing race card HERE, whiteboy... we're sick to death of it.

Now beat it, Kossack.

I post only facts - what's your problem with that?

And guilt is usually accompanied by anger - and I'm not the one showing it!

Prohibition, which you appear to enthusiastically support, is a war not just on the health, safety and freedom of racial minorities but on the safety and self-respect of all of us, and any one of us, by refusing to accept what these facts are telling us, is guilty of sanctioning this aberration.

Be well, sir, and may God bless you!

I'll have to ask Dr. Sam, whom you called a charlatan...

Dr. Sam, isn't passive-aggrressive behavior like this a form of repressed anger?

Yes.

And of misdirected anger.

Multiple studies have linked chronic marijuana abuse with exacerbations in underlying mood and dissociative disorders. What that mechanism might be is unknown, but it is thought that excitation of certain cannabinoid receptor subtypes interferes with the actions of antipsychotics and antidepressants and/or lowers inherent inhibitions which may tend to mask certain overt symptoms.

Thanks, Dr. Sam.

Please bill me, and I'll forward it to Malky at the Spahn Movie Ranch.

^^Like, again, because there's no Like button^^

And, a high five, SoL. 

If you do forward it, make sure there's someone there with Malky to read it to him and explain it to him.

To re-elect Obama would be like the Titanic backing up and hitting the iceberg again.

LOL, UpNorth

Problem is, I'm pretty sure Dr. Sam doesn't accept seeds as payment, so I may be stuck wit da bill.

Perhaps, SoL

SOL

Cut him some slack. Malcolm is the perfect liberal Democrat. He asks for nothing more than enough to fill his meth pipe and keep on playing World of Warcraft for days on end without sleep.

We won't know it's him, but sooner or later, his mother will be just a little too demanding when she tells him to get up out of the basement and carry out the trash.

They'll carry the news locally, but unless he also does something totally bizarre to the cat during his rage, it won't hit the national news.

You are correct, Cool.

I will be closely monitoring the Modesto Bee's crime page for the next several months.

I knew it, SOL

Good get. I promise I had him pegged strictly from his posts here. Thanks for the background.

And "The holy cannabinoid"?

Like Dylan said "You're gonna' have to serve somebody"

And there you go

a single-issue d-bag who would clearly prefer to live on a pot farm. Contribution to society: ZERO.

His license plate: OCD4THC?

Just wondering.

If you find anything there that can't be varified let me know!

At least try to educate yourself there; constantly spewing nonsense and personal abuse does your position no good. Or would you prefer to still struggle with confusing the consequences of drug misuse from those of drug prohibition while we all go to Hades in a hand cart? All of the problems I've mentioned, including the economic recession are here to stay until we properly regulate drugs. Prohibition is not regulation, it's is a hideous waking nightmare for all of us and our families. What in God's name do you hope to gain from continuing down this path of total ruination?

Here's another good place to gain insight into this moronothon: http://www.leap.cc/

Be well!

Quit pretending to be conservatives - you're raging statists

Sumptuary laws, especially in the form of prohibition, were something our founding fathers continually warned about.

It is way past time for us all to wise up and help curtail this dangerous expansions of federal power, the encroachments on individual liberty, and the increasing government expenditure devoted to enforcing the unworkable and dangerous policy of drug prohibition.

To support prohibition you have to be either ignorant, stupid, brainwashed, insane or corrupt.

* The US national debt has increased at an average rate of $3,000,000000 per day since 2006. http://www.usdebtclock.org/
* The unemployment rate has increased by 7300 per day since 2008.
* The loss of manufacturing jobs has been 1400 per day since 2006.
* Without the legalized regulation of opium products Afghanistan will continue to be a bottomless pit in which to throw countless billions of tax dollars and wasted American lives.
* The hopeless situation in Afghanistan is helping to destabilize it's neighbor, Pakistan, which is a country with nuclear weapons.
* The mayhem in Mexico has deteriorated so badly that it is bordering on farcical.

There is nothing conservative about prohibition. It enlists the most centralized state power in displacement of domestic and community roles. There is everything authoritarian and subversive about this policy which has incinerated American traditions such as Freedom and Federalism with its puritanical flames. Any person seeking to insure and not further compromise the safety of their family and of their neighbors must not only repudiate prohibition but help spearhead its abolition.

"Narcotics police are an enormous, corrupt international bureaucracy … and now fund a coterie of researchers who provide them with ‘scientific support’ … fanatics who distort the legitimate research of others. … The anti-marijuana campaign is a cancerous tissue of lies, undermining law enforcement, aggravating the drug problem, depriving the sick of needed help, and suckering well-intentioned conservatives and countless frightened parents." – William F. Buckley, Commentary in The National Review, April 29, 1983, p. 495

We will always have adults who are too immature to responsibly deal with tobacco, alcohol, heroin, cocaine, meth, various prescription drugs, gambling and even food. Our answer to them should always be: Get a Nanny, and stop turning the government into one for the rest of us!

Got an example of a mature adult who deals w/ meth responsibly?

Or heroin?

So I'll take that as a "No, man, I don't."

.

Now, back to you, Malky.

Do you suppose there's any underlying causation behind those so-sad african-american crime stats you cited?

And give it to us straight up - we can take it.

Are you proud of those stats?

is that it?

Here they are again:

* Our heavily militarized Police force is effectively laying siege to black neighborhoods. This is not happening with the same force and zeal in predominantly white neighborhoods.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=HmgeCeGk--I

* (2009) Afro-Americans do not use drugs at a perceivable higher rate (9.6%) than white Americans (8.8%) Source: http://recovery2day.org/Alcoholism-and-Drug-Addiction/drug-use-by-race-e...

* Afro-Americans are being stopped and searched at a far higher frequency than white Americans.

* Afro-Americans represent just 12.2 % of the population but are 37% of those arrested for drug offenses.

* Afro-Americans comprise 53% of drug convictions but are just 12.2% of the population.

* Afro-Americans comprise 67 percent of all people imprisoned for drug offenses but are just 12.2% of the population.

* One out of three young African American (ages 18 to 35) men are in prison or on some form of supervised release.

Leftist logic

A) The drug war has failed
B) Poor people and minorities are disproportionally affected
C) Legalize and heavily tax drugs

THEREFORE, Airhead Huffinggas wants to tax poor people and minorities.

I'm afraid that's your logic

You fail!

The only people that believe prohibition is working are the ones making a living by enforcing laws in it's name, or those amassing huge fortunes on the black market profits. This situation is wholly unsustainable, and as history has shown us, conditions will continue to deteriorate until we all finally (just like our forefathers) see sense and revert back to tried and tested methods of regulation. - None of these substances, legal or illegal, are ever going to go away, but we CAN decide to implement policies that do far more good than harm.

During alcohol prohibition in the 1920s, all profits went to enrich thugs and criminals. Young men died every day on inner-city streets while battling over turf. A fortune was wasted on enforcement that could have gone on treatment. On top of the budget-busting prosecution and incarceration costs, billions in taxes were lost. Finally the economy collapsed. Sound familiar?

So should the safety and freedom of the rest of us be compromised because of the few who cannot control themselves?

Many of us no longer think it should!

Simple Possession of Marijuana

Are the prisons really rife with people doing time for simple possession of small amounts of marijuana? I'm asking if someone actually knows the numbers. Here's an article I found that disputes the belief that there are a lot of inmates serving time for marijuana possession.

I understand the argument for decriminalization for growing a weed that needs no processing.  If people want to push for marijuana legalization they need to use facts and not toss out the canard that the prisons are full of people who were just smoking some pot.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"You can’t go take a trip to Las Vegas...on the taxpayer’s dime." Barack Obama

And there you have it.

You want to legalize drugs, make the argument. Not these non sequiturs that because war on X has failed, we should now legalize X. We have a war on cancer. We ain't won that one yet. Should we stop trying? We have the Global War on Terrorism. We have no elimated every terrorist. Should we simply stop trying?

Vet

We've also had a War on Poverty since the early 60s. I think we need an exit strategy on that one.

President Obama is a Muslim (from his own lips), Kenyan (read it from his publicist) a homosexual (read it on a news magazine cover) and a Socialist (I'm alive and can see it for myself)

Be nice if we could start a war,

On stupid,,, and maybe try to save liberty.

Seek Truth, Defend Liberty

You're quite right that prisons are not full of

casual pot smokers. While most states have penalties of a year or more for possession of marijuana, they're almost never enforced. Ask the next 1 million casual pot smokers if they've ever had their home raided and 999,999 will say no. It just doesn't happen. Why? Because law enforcement is not actually going after marijuana. Now, it is true that there are people in prison on marijuana convictions but the vast majority are actually lesser included charges or plea bargains down from distribution and/or possession of other-than-marijuana CDS or weapons violations. This is what the advocates like to ignore in their statistics. You bust a dealer of cocaine in his home and 99% of the time you'll find marijuana and paraphernalia along with cash and weapons.

I can tell you (and some may have already surmised) that the illegal drug issue is very dear to my heart as a family member has been struggling with it for several years. I can also tell you that I've sat through multiple court proceedings in Baltimore City District Court where nearly every single case is drug related. And I can honestly say that in the literally dozens of cases I witnessed in court, NOT ONE, not a single one was for marijuana. Most were heroin or crack cocaine. Several included weapons charges. And almost all of the possession-only charges resulted in a nolle prosequi by the State. I've watched as defendant after defendant was brought before the judge -in restraints as they're being held on other, more significant charges- only to have the DA nulle pros the possession charges and let them return to their cell to await prosecution on the distribution and weapons charges at a later date. One after another. I'd guess fully 10% of the docket. The truth that advocates don't want to admit is that States Attorneys are simply not interested in users with judges preferring to order treatment over incarceration; it's the dealers that draw the focus.

I can also tell you that there is a game being played here. It's easy to arrest users, especially when they're making a purchase. Often times they're out-of-place in the surroundings and easy to spot. Police will observe and then roll up before the purchaser can evacuate the area. Most times the seller is not even bothered even though police know who they are. Why? Because most often a single charge of distribution isn't enough to even detain someone overnight and unless they've got violent priors; they're often released OR within hours. The police don't catch the dealer with drugs on his person because the deal is arranged ahead of time and only the amount agreed upon is brought by the dealer. So, they arrest the buyer who has the drugs on him. It's a sure-fire conviction-worthy arrest -even if there's a likelihood the DA will nulle pros when the case is called. But- and here's the game- conviction isn't the goal for the police; not for the buyer, anyway. The arrest is step one in trying to get the buyer to roll over on the seller. They plea bargain with the buyer a nulle prosequi on the possession charge in exchange for a certain number of buys on a dealer(s). They use this evidence to build a larger case on the dealer(s) with the hope of securing a warrant for search and seizure of a residence. This is the prize. This is how they take down the neighborhood distributors. They're the people populating the prison cells.

We're discussing the legalized regulation of all drugs

But if you'd like to see what makes your clock tick:

http://www.drugsense.org/cms/wodclock

* In 2010, 52.1% of the 1,638,846 total arrests for prohibition violations were for marijuana -- making a calculated total of 853,839.

* Of those, an estimated 750,591 people (45.8%) were arrested for marijuana possession alone.

* By contrast, in 2000, a total of 734,497 Americans were arrested for marijuana "violations", of which 646,042 (40.9%) were for possession alone.

* From 1996-2010, there were 10.1 million arrests for marijuana possession and 1.4 million arrests for the sales and distribution of marijuana, equaling a total of 11.5 million marijuana arrests during that fifteen year time frame.

http://www.drugwarfacts.org/cms/Marijuana#Total

* Marijuana "violation" arrests were 39.9% of total prohibition arrests in 1995 increasing to 52.1% of such arrests in 2010.

* During this same period, arrests for marijuana sales and distribution fluctuated between 5-6% of total prohibition arrests, while those for simple possession increased from 34.1% in 1995 to 45.8% in 2010.

* Arrests for marijuana possession have risen from about a third to about a half of all prohibition violation arrests over the fifteen year 1995-2010 period.

http://www.drugwarfacts.org/cms/Marijuana#Share

Clock tick?

"We're discussing the legalized regulation of all drugs"

Did Obama appoint you Political Message Forum Czar?  You can discuss what you'd like, malcomkyle, but please give me the courtesy to discuss what I would like, as long as it's pertinent to the thread.  My point was to refute the tired argument that we are spending too much money to incarcerate simple marijuana possession, which is certainly pertinent to this thread.  You can argue against my premise, if that is your desire, but to say that my post isn't discussing the specific area that you want to discuss is silly, at best. 

Now on to your points:  You seem to pointing out that a lot "arrests" are made for simple marijuana possession.  I would not disagree with that.  What are the percentage of arrests for simple marijuana possession that end up in incarceration?  I refer you to bkeyser's post above, instead of me rehashing, (pun intended), all the arguments about people in jail for simple possession of marijuana

Don't jump to conclusion on how I feel about personal behavior.  If you were to read my profile, you would see that I am a libertarian when it comes to social issues.  The whole point of my original post was merely to state that I don't like the "simple marijuana incarceration" argument that the legalization crowd takes when it comes to issues regarding marijuana.  I would rather they approach it from a civil liberties and Federal vs State and Local Government perspective.  Let the states legalize pot if they so desire.  It should be the purview of the states to decide this sort of stuff.  The Federal Government should stay out.  But these liberals don't want to make the "State's Rights" argument.  They want all political power to be centralized. 

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"You can’t go take a trip to Las Vegas...on the taxpayer’s dime." Barack Obama

Huffingnpuffington

Clearly you cant fix stupid. Is she now dating Tony Bennett?

Her "own people" are throwing Molotovs at the Greek cops.

She's an American like Soros is an American.

STFU, take your money and go buy an island in the Aegean. Nobody will miss you.

The issue of drug legalization?

There exists a serious crisis in our culture of drugs which centers about death.  Death by 9 mm and gangs.

And money which is the glue that holds gangs together.

So, what to do?

Legalization could stop the gang activity in drugs if legal drugs were as easily available as illegal drugs.

But all the other issues such as DUI etc still would exist.  Not to mention all the family issues, crime of the abuser (rather than the dealer) and the issue of childhood access (which exists today).

So, legalization does not work.  But our current paradigm of illegal does not work too well.  There needs to be a new approach to the problem.

ACA

...

Quoted from: 'Acaiguana notes from the Underground' (Soon to be at theaters near you)

Hi aca,Maybe we should send

Hi aca,
Maybe we should send all the druggies to Australia. That would pretty much clear out the civilized areas around the world and place all the undesirables on one continent surrounded by water. This might save AA from bankruptcy(a bonus) and at the same time free up all the drug warriors for more productive duties like giving $1000 tickets to frisbee throwers on beaches.

"The enemy of my enemy is my friend, unless my friend is more evil than my enemy."

But what would you do without sport?

Here are just a few of the many highly motivated athletes whose drug of choice is cannabis/marijuana:

* Usain Bolt, the 2008 World Record holder of the 100 and 200 meter sprint.

* Michael Phelps, the most decorated swimmer ever with 14 Olympic gold medals.

* Tim Linecum, the National League baseball’s Cy Young Award winner for 2009.

* Santonio Holmes, the Super Bowl XLII’s MVP.

* Mark Stepnoski, two-time Super Bowl champion. "I'd rather smoke than take painkillers."

* Randy Moss, NFL single season touchdown reception record (23, set in 2007), and the NFL single-season touchdown reception record for a rookie (17, in 1998). Moss has founded, and financed many charitable endeavors including the the Links for Learning foundation, formed in 2008.

* Ricky Williams, the Heisman Trophy Winner in 1998. Throughout his life, Williams has dealt with anxiety and depression. He used to advertise the prescription drug Paxil. However he later stated “Marijuana is 10 times better for me than Paxil.”

* Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, the NBA's all-time leader in points scored (38,387), games played, minutes played, field goals made, field goal attempts, blocked shots and defensive rebounds. During his career with the NBA's Milwaukee Bucks and Los Angeles Lakers from 1969 to 1989, Abdul-Jabbar won six NBA championships and a record six regular season MVP Awards. He has a prescription to smoke marijuana in California, which he says he uses to control nausea and migraine headaches. He has been arrested twice for marijuana possession.

* "I just let him know that most of the players in the league use marijuana and I have and do partake in smoking weed in the offseason" - Josh Howard, forward for the Dallas Mavericks. Howard admitted to smoking marijuana on Michel Irvin’s ESPN show.

* "You got guys out there playing high every night. You got 60% of your league on marijuana. What can you do?" - Charles Oakley (Chicago Bulls, New York Knicks, Toronto Raptors, Washington Wizards and Houston Rockets)

* "I personally know boxers, body builders, cyclists, runners and athletes from all walks of life that train and compete with the assistance of marijuana," - WWE wrestler Rob Van Dam

* Some of the best cricket players of all time, like Phil Tufnell and Sir Ian Botham, have admitted to regularly using marijuana to deal with stress and muscle aches. In 2001, half of South Africa's cricket team was caught smoking marijuana with the team physiotherapist. They were celebrating a championship victory in the Caribbean.

sure malcom*

 Lets look at all those successful athletes 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_professional_sportspeople_convicted_of_crimes

 

How about just plain famous people who did so well even though they did drugs

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_drug-related_deaths

 

You can argue all day with your links. We can play link to link as well.  But there will never be a way for you to deny that drug abuse is destructive and eventually takes its toll on the user, their families, and society.  

Cajun, Went thru your list

Lots of dead people died from drugs..none of which were caused by marijuana. Lots of deaths related to alcohol though ..which I do believe is legal. Why is that?

Read mandrake*

Have you not read all of the comments on this thread?  Did you not read the "causes" of all those deaths and criminal activities?

Yes many of them died of alcohol related illnesses.  But what we are discussing on this thread is that the legal or illegal aspects of certain drugs, not just marijuana, has a huge factor being left out of the discussion.  People with certain personality disorders or severe problems in their lives, or ordinary pleasure seekers resort to "self medication".  Unfortunately, anyone who "self medicates" has   an unqualified medical practitioner.  Long term use of any mood altering substance, be it marijuana, heroin, or alcohol, has negative effects on personality as well as body.

Drug abuse and addiction is often associated with alcoholism for reasons drsam and stratman could explain better than I.   It has to do with the "ups" and "downs" of  the drug use and how it escalates to addiction and alcoholism.

Mature adults who engage in alcohol are not normally those who use "mood altering drugs".  Notice I refrain from using legal or illegal.  To a dysfunctional individual, legal or illegal is irrelevant.   

 

 

Legal or illegal

That's the point. My daughter can go buy a bottle of Vodka no problem. But she could get busted for some weed. Why? I could go to my doctor and complain about the pain in my leg and get some Oxycodin..which is way stronger than weed and get some..why?

Good evening cajun

You are fighting windmills. You are speaking intelligent logic to a space cadet from the La La Land Galaxy.

 

Jesus Loves You so much He died for you

cocodrie

Must you insult me like that? I would never live in La La Land (aka California) They gots all kind of critters there like Baldwins and Hanks and Lenos and even the rare Schwarzenegger!

If your daughter

If your daughter wants to go get drunk or get high on illegal drugs maybe you should have a talk with her. Comparing legal painkillers to illegal drugs doesn't make any sense. If it hadn't been for oxycontin , oxycodone and morphine My wife's last year would have been unbearable. These drugs have no place on the street and should by no means be available an any street corner.

 

Jesus Loves You so much He died for you

Right on coco*

It does seem a futile effort using logic when talking to a liberal.  To compare buying vodka to getting a doctor to write a Rx  is quite a reach.  

Mandrake, with a Rx, a doctor is supervising the drug, you get information and the pharmacy will provide you with written information about side effects, consequences, problems to be alert to.  Buying a drug, even marijuana, on the street is a poor comparison.  If your daughter is over 18, yes she can buy alcohol.  But how you raised your child, values taught, self disciipline, information and boundaries, are the factors that determine what she does with that alcohol. 

Allow me to help you refrase/reframe that correctly

But there will never be a way for you to deny that prohibition is destructive and continually takes its toll on all our families, and society. Prohibition is neither a sane nor a safe approach; left unabated, its puritanical flames will surely engulf every last one of us. -- There; fixed!

Heye Mouth - well, Australia is an interesting choice.

Haven't the Brits already tried something like that down under?

Not too sure how that worked out either.

OH well....

Good to hear from you.

ACA

...

Quoted from: 'Acaiguana notes from the Underground' (Soon to be at theaters near you)

Maybe

if drugs had been legal Houston and many others could have got more at an earlier age and died sooner.

That's their choice, I hope

That's their choice, I hope everyone can wake up and admit that we lost the drug war. Millions are addicted and we have armies of bureaucrats (with guns) trying to 'fix it'. Doesn't sound like a strategy based on liberty to me.

I would also urge anyone that drinks to put down the glass before talking badly about the effects of marijuana. That would be refreshing.

war on drugs

Libertarian here I suppose.....

What has the "war on drugs" accomplished?

More bureaucracy, more government waste of our tax dollars, and has not done a thing to slow the influx of drugs to our country. This war has also made the drug "kingpins" and their armies far more dangerous and cost the lives of many innocent people. We need to stop the stupidity and open our eyes to the real truth. Simple legalization with regulations like we have on the most dangerous drug, alcohol, just makes sense. This would eliminate the black market for them and eliminate the need for billions of dollars of taxpayer money to be basically thrown in a figurative fire. When taxed they could start to recoup some of the lost money we've spent. People will not stop doing drugs, just as they never stopped drinking alcohol during prohibition. The illegal alcohol business was a black market just like the current drug black market is, with "kingpins" and all. Plenty of killing going on and plenty of people who would not obey the drinking laws. We did away with prohibition and the country still survives, with most folks that drink not becoming alcoholics. The same thing would happen with legalizing drugs for recreational use. We already have addicts, and many won't seek help because they are addicted to something illegal, but they are more likely to get help if the stigma of the situation was decreased by the drug being a legal substance. I know most of the folk on this site disagree with my point of view and want to impose their will on what other people ought to do with their lives, but this is supposed to be a free country after all. Our country existed just fine with all these recreational drugs being legal for about 150 years and we did just fine. All we're doing is filling our jails with people that could be making a living running an honest business selling legal drugs as opposed to what is now illegal and has them in jail.
The strange thing about my point of view is that I don't even drink alcohol or do drugs. That's the choice I've made for myself, but I have no desire to tell someone else what choices they make for their life, as long as it doesn't harm someone else. I know you'll say what about people that drive stoned or high on something. I've got news for you....They're already out there on the highways right now. Just as their are drunk drivers out there. Just because drugs are illegal doesn't stop them from being acquired or used.

Evolution: A theory formulated for people that don't want to be held accountable for their actions.

I wish I could agree with you, but

nearly all of the most dangerously abused drugs did not exist 150 years ago, or even 98 years ago when the first narcotics taxation legislation went into effect. Heroin and other highly potent opioids are the precise reason that narcotic taxation was introduced, as it is a time-tested and heavily reliable form of controlling access and demand in most cases. It is true that we cannot stop addiction, nor can we stop the massive amounts of diversion of legitimate prescription drugs from being acquired or abused. It is also true that most of the people who are addicted to these opioids were not heroin addicts, but rather had access to it from some legitimate prescribing at some point. The more potent semi-synthetic opioids did not start to appear until the 40s and 50s when drugs like fentanyl and its derivaties, hydrocodone, oxycodone and hydromorphone were approved by the FDA. Methadone dates from the late 30s and saw use as a pain medication in German soldiers during World War II, but it was not until after the war that researchers found that had a very serious side-effect profile.

The discovery of other commonly abused drugs date primarily from the 1940s/1950s onward. The benzodiazepine sedative/hypnotic class dates from the late 1950s when the first of the class chlordiazepoxide (Librium) and diazepam (Valium) were first marketed. After that came a virtual slew of other compounds which quickly became abused. The problem has been exacerbated recently by the massive increase in oral high-potency opioid products commercially available and used in legitmate pain management. The major issue is improper prescribing and dispensing by less than reputable professionals in the pill mill industry. If you live in Florida or Texas, you know what I am talking about.

Society is also fundamentally different now than it was in the era when the 1914 narcotics taxation legislation was passed. Morphine, laudanum (a form of raw opium) and semi-synthetic opioids were rampant and abused to the point where it truly was a national epidemic. There were some controls on these drugs already at the state level, so it was not just as easy as going to a drug store and picking up a few hundred morphine sulfate tablets and having a backyard drug party.

While I can see some people may consider this to be a simple matter of legalization, those countries that have tried this route learned a painful lesson that allowing unfettered access to any potential drug of abuse is not a good idea. In the end, it only increases costs on an already overly burdened health care system.

Doc Sam

As always, so nicely put. I would like to add, that more underage kids drink alcohol than use illegal drugs like heroin. The fact that some drugs are illegal makes them harder to obtain and most likely is psychological deterent to kids. Legalizing drugs will make them more available to the most vulnerable segment of our population, teens and young adults.

Vulnerable also refers to the stage of brain development.

Proud member of the 53%!

In Addition To Methadone...

Meperidine (Demerol), an oldie but still a goodie, was the first synthetic opiod, discovered and also used by the Germans in WWII.  Morphine was first extracted from opium by a German at the beginning of the 1800's.

The Germans know their narcotics!

Don't forget Domagk and sulfanilamide.

Germans were the pre-eminent pharmaceutical manufacturers up until about 1960, when the Americans started making discoveries on their own.

I had no idea, but it turns out my old microbiology professor was one of the early pioneers in the Streptomyces derived antibiotics. He actually held 20 patents and loved to discuss bacteria. I briefly contemplated infectious diseases until they wanted me to do LPs. That did it.

My fav would be Fleming and

My fav would be Fleming and penicillin.  Saved a lot of Americans in WWII.  Pretty amazing that sulfonamides and penicillin remain useful tools.

I would have chosen LP's over Micro most any day back in school.  During residency, the ID guy most feared the potential of VRE.  Antibiotic research was choked off by Clinton's policies and litigating attorney's appetites back in those days and the hope for new breakthroughs remain dismal today.  That ID physician is probably worried about a couple additional critters by now.

Gosh, the mention of those two drugs, antibacterial sulfonamides

and penicillin brings up the painful memory related by my mother about the death of her father in 1932. He was only 33 and in excellent health when he became seriously ill after contracting pneumonia. Fleming had discovered penicillin a few years earlier but its application for treating infectious pneumonia was still over a decade away.

The class of sulfonamides for combating bacterial infections was likewise relatively new, unregulated, and carried heightened risks for adverse reactions. In fact, I am told--but obviously can't confirm the accuracy of the statement--that my grandfather received only the third injection of its kind in the US. In any event, he experienced an immediate and fatal allergic reaction and died before the needle could be extracted from his arm.

My mom was 10 at the time, will be 90 this year, and I don't think she has ever really gotten over it. She continues to remind me to always note on the medical forms the possibility of an inherited intolerance to sulfa based drugs. If it had only been a few years later, penicillin would very likely have saved her dad's life.

Jer

As a matter of medical history, Jer...

Penicillin was actually considered a war secret during the 40s. Sulfa drugs were already on the market, and one famous drug misadventure came from a liquid formulation of sulfanilamide that was put into an elixir formulation with a dangerous solvent and caused a number of deaths in 1937. That caused the FD&C act to be passed in 1938.

Sulfas are amazingly useful drugs for a wide number of infections even after almost 80 years. One of the cheapest drugs to manufacture and distribute due to their high oral dosing form stability, Bactrim/Cotrim (a combination of sulfamethoxazole and trimethoprim) remains an important weapon against Pneumocystis carinii pneumonia in immunocompromised (HIV, chemo, radiation, leukemia, etc.) patients worldwide. It's cheap and incredibly effective. Sulfas, however, are also one of the worst families of drugs for causing allergic reactions ranging from the mild to wild (Stevens-Johnson, toxic epidermal necrolysis). A number of medications use a sulfonamide core structure, and can have the potential to cross-react. Anaphylaxis, the reaction you are describing, is also common. The worst part is that sometimes the serious reactions do not occur the first time the patient is exposed to the drug. Often, they occur on re-exposure and this makes the reactions even more difficult to treat. As Strat would attest, treating full-bore anaphylaxis is a harrowing experience for the patient and physician alike.

In World War II, it was not uncommon for nurses to apply bulk sulfanilamide powder directly to open wounds in battlefield conditions. While this undoubtedly contributed to the rapid development of resistance, it also saved many a leg, arm, foot, etc.

Penicillin didn't become widely available until after the war was over, and we quickly saw resistance in one of the worst bugs around--Staphylococcus aureus. Once that happened, it was the one of the causative circumstances behind the "golden age" of drug discovery in the 1950s, where we saw development of tetracyclines, macrolides, aminoglycosides, lipopolypeptides and others. Again, with penicillin came other advances including the cephalosporins and yes more resistance. Nature of the microbiological world.

Penicillin likely would have saved your grandfather, but it also could have forced another allergic reaction. Most patients who are allergic to sulfonamides are cross-allergic to penicillins. There wasn't much choice back in those days between antibiotics. We didn't even have good antihistamines until the late 1940s with the first group of ethanolamine derivatives.

If you do have that history in your family of multi-drug resistance, please be careful because so many modern medications retain an active core related to older compounds.

Did any of your hospitals eliminate Demerol?

Two health systems where I have practice and consult privileges completely eliminated Demerol from their formularies. Both pharmacy directors said it will not be coming back. I never used much of it, because it causes such nasty side-effects in my elderly patients and really interferes with responses to antipsychotics and antidepressants. Not to mention, I never thought its analgesic effects were any better than plain old morphine. Same for Darvon--that was just a useless pink placebo with nasty acetaminophen toxicity attached.

Now the big joy pop of demand is the fentanyl sublingual. Sorry, but I won't be Dr. Fentora.

good Question

Don't know if Demerol is off formulary, but it's use has become less popular for several reasons including the ones you mentioned and having other narcotics to utilize with decent profiles.

I know a few physicians and a lot of patients were concerned when Darvocet N-100 was discontinued. Some physicians used to give that out like it was water.

Just think the panic if the FDA pulled Valium or Ativan? On the bright side, if that were to happen, ... more business for you. (Like you need more business. I don't know a psychiatrist who isn't busier than a one-armed wallpaper hanger!)

Oh Good Lord, after the Mental Health Parity legislation

was passed, my new patient lists read like a phone book. Everybody and everyone was switching to psychiatry from psychologists and counselors/therapists because of the reimbursement changes. Some of the larger BHOs (behavior health organizatioins) went nuts and started demanding we accept capitated payments. I have the luxury of converting to a pure neuro/neurophys practice if I wanted, but luckily the group practice already had a very junior psychiatrist and they told the BHOs to pound salt. They finally gave in and our reimbursement increased to standard UC&R. Seems Medicaid and Medicare didn't have proper RBRVS for the heavier neurophys procedures, so we were able to stomp them (temporarily) into submission. What a business, right?

I would be perfectly happy if FDA pulled Valium, but Ativan...Good God, man....that would mean banning water!

There is a simple solution to

There is a simple solution to the drug problem. Just like floride for your teeth, put something in the water that makes you sick when you use drugs or drink booze. Problem solved! I leave it to the docs and dictators to provide the details.

"The enemy of my enemy is my friend, unless my friend is more evil than my enemy."

From An Old Joke:

Prozac would provide more bang for the buck.

I thought Arianna WAS "an old

I thought Arianna WAS "an old joke"?

The so-called 'War on Drugs' has been a raging success

...as far as the government is concerned.

Never mind that all it has really accomplished is to drive up the price, attract many more sellers, and get a lot of innocent people killed in the resulting crossfire.

The government doesn't care about any of that.

What this war has accomplished for government is acclimating most of the sheeple into believing that it is perfectly okay for government to bend our constitutional rights, and in some cases, ignore them completely.

Now that the Obamanistas are cranking up the real war on the American people, in which they plan to stomp what is left of our rights squarely into the ground, the resistance they will encounter will be of a much lesser significance.

We're the proverbial frog in the pot of water.

Getting warm yet?

Probably, because apparently we didn't learn a damned thing from Prohibition.

-Dave

Vote for the American in November

O/bowboy will play the pot card, as the October surprise....

could work ....

If we legalize

drugs, then Whtiney Houston would be alive? Lmao. Note that the Netherlands is recently revisiting it's stance on "legalized drugs". Tobacco is KNOWN to kill as is alcohol, heroin, PCP...etc, BUT I have NEVER EVER heard of anyone OD on weed. I don't condone the legalization of all drugs, but pot should at least be decriminalized, take the profit from the dealers and drug lords. Now how that could be done with the STINKIN' gubment screwing up is ANOTHER story. And to a movie quote..."stupid is as stupid does".....and there will continue to be stupid people. Maybe that will help "cull the herd" ala Darwin style.

g

"Eventually, Socialists run out of other peoples' money...." MARGARET THATCHER

Legalize Drugs?? Bad Move.

Speaking as someone who deals with drug addicts on a daily basis I would say that legalizing drugs woulds be akin to using gasoline to extinguish a fire.

Do these mindless twits simply assume that if drugs were legal that the nearly 50% of those arrested that have drugs in their system at the time of arrest would suddenly morph into good little boys and girls that would just sit home at night slowly killing themselves as the suck on their bongs and crack pipes?

Lets face it, a not insignificant number of folks that do drugs are simply not very nice people to begin with, and when you combine their anti-social personality disorders and borderline sociopathic behavior with a never ending flow of cheap easily attainable drugs, what you will likely be facing is a marked increase in the types of behavior that has kept me gainfully employed for nearly a quarter century.

Sorry folks but the idyllic picture of the peace loving stoner is an atypical representation of drug addicts and no amount of wishful thinking on the part of the legalize drugs folks is gonna change reality.

Speaking as someone who deals

Speaking as someone who deals with drug addicts on a daily basis...

Given that drug use is so "illegal" after billions have been spent on their eradication since the Nixon years, why are you still dealing with them on a daily basis?

BTW: Have you dealt with anyone whose innocent family members were killed by drug dealers?

Have you dealt with anyone who whose innocent family member was killed when the cops kicked in the wrong door?

Have you dealt with anyone who had their property confiscated because of a random accusation that later proved to be false, yet their seized property was never returned to them, regardless of what the Constitution says?

Have you ever dealt with a landlord who had their property snatched because they had a tenant that stored their stash in the freezer?

Hmm?

-Dave

Vote for the American in November

Get informed before you get snarky..

Check the information available on my bio as an answer to the majority of your questions...I am no stranger to the adverse effect this war has on the innocent.

That the way this particular war is being waged is imperfect is not news to me, yet if your criteria for success is "perfect or nothing" you are a deluded fool.

Good morning Pickle

One of the main problems with the war on drugs is the corruption in the criminal justice system. Until we get rid of the rotten apples from the very top to the bottom of the barrel there will be no improvment.

 

Jesus Loves You so much He died for you

Prohibition spawns corruption - always has always will!

During alcohol prohibition, all profits went to enrich thugs and criminals. Young men died every day on inner-city streets while battling over turf. A fortune was wasted on enforcement that could have gone on education, etc. On top of the budget-busting prosecution and incarceration costs, billions in taxes were lost. Finally, the economy collapsed. Sound familiar?

It's possible that many of the early Prohibitionists did not actually intend to kill hundreds of thousands worldwide and put 1 in every 30 American adults under supervision of the correctional system while bringing shame upon what was once a shining beacon of liberty and prosperity. But predictively similar to our "Great Experiment" of the 1920s, this foolish and counter-productive 're-run' has once again spawned rampant off-the-scale criminality, corruption, a bust economy, mass unemployment, the world's highest incarceration rate, a civil war in Mexico, an un-winnable war in Afghanistan, and an even higher rate of drug-use (both legal & illegal) than in all other countries that have courageously refused to blindly follow us down this sadomoralistic, dystopian rat hole.

So, just how many more of the

So, just how many more of the innocents have to die before you finally figure out that this war is no-longer worth it? 

About 15 years ago I watched as the younger sister of my dearest friend from childhood was burried because she caught a bullet in the back of the head from a dope dealer. 

She wasn't even 15 years old.

Why did the punk who ended her life feel it necessary to have a gun in the first place? 

Because of your stoopid "War on Drugs," that's why.

And if you think I'm being snarky now, just go ahead and f*ck with me a little further.

-Dave

Vote for the American in November

First let me address your

First let me address your tragic lose. I am deeply and profoundly sorry for the tragic lose of your friends sister.

Secondly let me address your closing statement. I can only say that, with very little doubt in my mind, if I ever decided to "f*ck with you a little further" you'd be crying like a little bitch. Take your self righteous indignation to someone that might take some anonymous dweebs threats to heart. I have scrapped with some of the most dangerous people you will likely ever meet and with the exception of a few scars I have come out on top.

You take a personal lose and turn it into an indictment of the entire system, you're like a sniveling little child that decides, because you have been touched by a tragic lose, you are somehow qualified to condemn the entire effort of drug interdiction in this country, and you do so without a single thought as to how the unencumbered flow of narcotics into this country will effect the lives of countless others.

You somehow claim that the rotten piece of human debris that tragically took the life of your friends sister was somehow forced into his actions because the trade he choose to deal in was illegal? The utter naiveté of that statement is just astounding. As if, but for the war on drugs, this piece of garbage would have been some kind of choir boy.

While I feel greatly for your lose, and am just as convinced that everyone involved in the waging of this war is as well, and will send out prayers for this poor girls soul, I will continue to feel justified in perusing a course of action that casts the widest net in denying, to the greatest extent possible, easy and cheap access to the substances that have cause so much anguish and pain, not only to you and those like you but for the myriad other victims of drug abuse as well.

I know that nothing I could ever say will make you feel better about this lose. I won't even say I know how you feel as each of us is affected by these tragedies in different ways. Suffice it to say that we all have reasons for feeling the way we do about this issue and while you will continue to believe that the continued interdiction of narcotics into this country is more harmful than helpful, I will continue to believe that it is the right thing to do.

Sorry pickle*

You seem to be getting bashed for reasons unrelated to your posts.   Unfortunately, most people do not understand that the "war on drugs" isn't just about   the government spending to stop import and sale of drugs, it isnt just about the violence involved in an illegal business.  I agree with you.  There will always be a "drug" for those who are disturbed individuals looking for a way to self medicate.  The sources of drug use is more than just drug gangs but illegal medical providers as well.  There is much corruption involved in every institution dealing with these drugs, including prisons, rehab centers as well.  These people will find a way to produce some mind altering substance.  The sickness is in our society, it translates into crack heads, meth heads, pot heads, etc.  But lets face it, it was druggies who invented LSD, meth, and a whole host of other substances.  Even Edgar Allen Poe was a coke head.  This is the part that many people fail to understand about the drug trade and the addicts involved.  

Ending the 'war on drugs" will not solve any problems only add to them.  What we need is to add  some major renovations done in our society that progressives have instilled for generations.  Lack of individual  responsibility, excuses for drug /alcohol addicts, devaluing human life by abortions, removing boundaries, morals and values, pleasure seeking narcissists. It goes on and on. 

And that is where we must start.  Repair our damaged society.

Thank you for your efforts. Be safe.

Thanks Cajun

We all feel the depredations involved in the drug trade and efforts to stop it. Some feel that sense of lose and hopelessness more than others. The desire to hope that if we ignore it maybe it will just go away, at times becomes overwhelming, especially in those that have experienced that lose first hand. Believe me, this is hardly the first time that my view on the matter has been vehemently challenged and I suspect that it will not be the last.

I would also like to say that sometimes one becomes quite impassioned in their arguments and if stepped past the bounds of civil discourse I readily apologize. Sometimes I forget that folks have some pretty passionate reasons for their stances as well and I allow my own firm resolve to get in the way of a meaningful exchange of ideas and beliefs.

Of course pickle*

The tragedies caused by drug and alcohol abuse affect so many people in various ways.  It has become a very emotional issue.  Unfortunately, those of us who have worked inside the system know that the increasing violence and use associated with illegal drugs is more than just a matter of law enforcement. Simplistic solutions will not solve our societies problems with drug abuse and the business of illegal drugs.  

Hopefully, NBers will recognize that this is a very complex issue and though we may disagree on some points of view on this issue, we have already seen a wealth of information posted by professionals in the various areas. 

For instance,  over 40% of women who have had abortions resort to drugs and alcohol to deal with their grief and shame.  A child dies from parental abuse every hour in this country by drug addicted parents. The  numbers of abused and neglected children has risen substantially in the last decade.  The number of child sexual assaults have increased as well. Domestic violence injuries and deaths have increased. Most of which is associated with drug and alcohol abuse.  The crime rate in the country has continued to rise over the last few years due to the failing economy and people using drugs and alcohol to deal with stress and frustration.  The violence associated with fatalities show more and more younger perpetrators as well as younger victims. The number of children born with health problems and learning disabilities have been shown t o be connected to parental drug abuse. The number of people incarcerated are increasing with the main cause as drug and alcohol related crimes.  

Our society is crumbling from inside, for many reasons.  Increasing drug related offenses is a symptom not the cause.  There are many avenues that progressives are using to destroy our society by lowering acceptable standards of behavior to increase a pleasure seeking majority .  The War on Drugs or the argument to legalize drugs are to me very simplistic solutions.  That is why your posts invited discussion.  The damage being done touches so many in different ways and will never be a cold and dispassionate debate.  

I only suggest you be patient and please continue your contributions on the issue.  Thank you again for your efforts.

So what exactly do you think

So what exactly do you think is going to happen when we legalize drugs? The street dealers will just go away and find jobs at the mall??

What planet are YOU living on? You do realize that liquor houses exist in cities and are the site of much violence. The first homicide I ever investigated was at a liquor house. How can this be?!?!? I thought the government legalized alcohol???? You quite naive.

"And if you think I'm being snarky now, just go ahead and f*ck with me a little further."

Ah yes, another keyboard commando. What if he does f*ck with you a little further, what are you going to do? What if I f*ck with you a little? What are you going to do?

Don't try and silence people through intimidation, it only makes you look more ignorant.

Hello NC Cop*

As I told pickle, waiting for another point of view and here he has arrived.  What is it with these "legalize drugs" people?

Don't they realize that doing drugs is not a "right".   It's a choice and one that affects everyone else.  Drugs are not abused by "normal" people.  The continued abuse of drugs has negative affects no matter how you pretend it can be regulated.  Continued use of drugs or alcohol over a long period of time leads to addiction.   Regulating the amount or doses is not going to have any affect. Long term use of drugs and alcohol leads to health problems, loss of independence, loss of ability for self reliance. Here we are back to dependency, criminal behavior, denial of personal responsibility, to justify drug use.

When you look at drug abuse from different points of view, you can see more distinctly the effects of drug abuse has on individuals, society, and institutions.  Drsam, Pickle, stratman, NC Cop, and yes, cajun2 all have a distinct professional association with drug abuse or the results of drug abuse.  Somehow, I put your assessments  with greater value at the top of the shelf than some one who wants to justify legalization of a method to further destroy peoples lives and society without consequences.  

Prohibition is not just imperfect - it's a raging disaster!

We can either ask the Tooth Fairy to stop people taking drugs or we can decide to regulate them properly. Prohibition is not regulation, it's a hideous nightmare for all of us and our families, except of course for the lowest lifeforms amongst us.

Because Drug cartels will always have an endless supply of ready cash for wages, bribery and equipment, no amount of tax money, police powers, weaponry, wishful thinking or pseudo-science will make our streets safe again. Only an end to prohibition can do that! How much longer are we willing to foolishly risk our own survival by continuing to ignore the obvious, historically confirmed solution?

Debating whether a particular drug is harmless or not is missing the whole point. Is marijuana dangerous? Is Cocaine dangerous? Is Alcohol dangerous? I simply don't care if they are or not; If someone wants to attempt to enhance or destroy their lives with drugs thats their business and not anybody else's. Their lives aren't ours to direct.

Why on earth does anyone think it's acceptable to want to control certain behaviors, such as the bedroom habits or choice of poison of fully grown adults? Isn't it high time we evolved enough to get past this crap? Surely we need to accept, that the only way to truly be free, is that you agree, in return, to allow other people to be free, even if it offends your personal sensibilities. What's more; if it's not directly hurting you and you forbid it, then you can be sure that it will create unforeseen circumstances, which WILL have an adverse affect on YOUR wellbeing! -- Actually, a large proportion of those arising circumstances may not come as such a surprise to those of us who are capable of paying due attention to historical precedent.

If you support prohibition then you've helped trigger the worst crime wave in history.

If you support prohibition you've a helped create a black market with massive incentives to hook both adults and children alike.

If you support prohibition you've helped to make these dangerous substances available in schools and prisons.

If you support prohibition you've helped raise gang warfare to a level not seen since the days of alcohol bootlegging.

If you support prohibition you've helped create the prison-for-profit synergy with drug lords.

If you support prohibition you've helped remove many important civil liberties from those citizens you falsely claim to represent.

If you support prohibition you've helped put previously unknown and contaminated drugs on the streets.

If you support prohibition you've helped to escalate Murder, Theft, Muggings and Burglaries.

If you support prohibition you've helped to divert scarce law-enforcement resources away from protecting your fellow citizens from the ever escalating violence against their person or property.

If you support prohibition you've helped overcrowd the courts and prisons, thus making it increasingly impossible to curtail the people who are hurting and terrorizing others.

If you support prohibition you've helped evolve local gangs into transnational enterprises with intricate power structures that reach into every corner of society, controlling vast swaths of territory with significant social and military resources at their disposal.

If you support prohibition then you are guilty of turning the federal, state and local governments into a gargantuan organized crime syndicate, interested only in protecting it's own corrupt interests. -- The very acts for which we initially created governments to protect us from, have become institutionalized. Thanks to prohibition, government now provides 'services' at the barrel of a gun.

"Debating whether a

"Debating whether a particular drug is harmless or not is missing the whole point. Is marijuana dangerous? Is Cocaine dangerous? Is Alcohol dangerous? I simply don't care if they are or not; If someone wants to attempt to enhance or destroy their lives with drugs thats their business and not anybody else's. Their lives aren't ours to direct."

But the truth is we all pay for the demise of those people. So unless you think drunks and users are going to pay for the consequences of their own addiction, you cannot advocate for more of them. Right? I mean where am I wrong here?  If you legalize something you get more of it right?

"The enemy of my enemy is my friend, unless my friend is more evil than my enemy."

Hey Ya'll...Back Off the Pickle

I really don't understand how this got so off the track...

Pickle didn't do it....we don't need to cannibalize each other.

Please re-read, and if you went off, prematurely, apologize!

Let's stay all together now, Conservatives!

Just how, exactly, did you get pickled?

Alcohol is a factor in the following:

* 73% of all felonies * 73% of child beating cases * 41% of rape cases * 80% of wife battering cases * 72% of stabbings * 83% of homicides.

According to the Australian National Drug Research Institute (2003): "Tobacco, alcohol and illicit drugs are prematurely killing around seven million people worldwide each year, and robbing tens of millions more of a healthy life. The research into the global burden of disease attributable to alcohol, tobacco and illicit drugs found that in 2000, tobacco use was responsible for 4.9 million deaths worldwide, equating to 71 percent of all drug-related deaths. Around 1.8 million deaths were attributable to the use of alcohol (26 percent of all drug-related deaths), and illicit drugs (heroin, cocaine and amphetamines) caused approximately 223,000 deaths (3 percent of all drug-related deaths)."

According to DrugRehabs.Org, national mortality figures for 2009 were: tobacco 435,000; poor diet and physical inactivity 365,000; alcohol 85,000; microbial agents 75,000; toxic agents 55,000; motor vehicle crashes 26,347; adverse reactions to prescription drugs 32,000; suicide 30,622; incidents involving firearms 29,000; homicide 20,308; sexual behaviors 20,000; all illicit drug use, direct and indirect 17,000; and marijuana 0.

Researchers led by Professor David Nutt, a former chief drugs adviser to the British government, asked drug-harm experts to rank 20 drugs (legal and illegal) on 16 measures of harm to the user and to wider society, such as damage to health, drug dependency, economic costs and crime. Alcohol scored 72 out of a possible 100, far more damaging than heroin (55) or crack cocaine (54). It is the most harmful to others by a wide margin, and is ranked fourth behind heroin, crack, and methamphetamine (crystal meth) for harm to the individual.

http://www.economist.com/blogs/dailychart/2010/11/drugs_cause_most_harm

The American Journal of Preventive Medicine found that in the U.S. alone, an estimated 79,000 lives are lost annually due to "excessive" drinking. The study estimates that the overall cost of excessive drinking by Americans is $223.5 billion each year.

http://www.ajpmonline.org/article/S0749-3797(11)00538-1/abstract

Health-related costs per user are eight times higher for those who drink alcohol when compared to those who use marijuana, and are more than 40 times higher for tobacco smokers, according to a 2009 review published in the British Columbia Mental Health and Addictions Journal.
It states, "In terms of [health-related] costs per user: tobacco-related health costs are over $800 per user, alcohol-related health costs are much lower at $165 per user, and cannabis-related health costs are the lowest at $20 per user."

http://www.heretohelp.bc.ca/publications/cannabis/bck/7

Having three or more alcoholic drinks a day increased lung cancer risk by 30 percent.
“Heavy drinking has multiple harmful effects, including cardiovascular complications and increased risk for lung cancer,”
- lead researcher Stanton Siu, MD, of Kaiser Permanente

http://www.drugfree.org/join-together/alcohol/heavy-alcohol-consumption-...

Apart from the fact that legal drugs kill far more people than all the illegal drugs combined, debating whether a particular drug is harmless or not is missing the whole point. Are drugs like Heroin, Meth or Alcohol dangerous? It simply doesn't matter, because if we prohibit them then we sure as hell know that it makes a bad situation far worse. If someone wants to attempt to enhance or destroy their lives with particular medicines or poisons, that should be their business, not anybody else's. Their lives aren't ours to direct. And anyway, who wants to give criminals, terrorists and corrupt law enforcement agents a huge un-taxed, endless revenue stream?

You do realize that

virtually all studies involving illegal drug use are skewed because illegal rug users rarely admit to the extent of their use? And anyone who thinks alcohol is more addictive and dangerous than heroin or crack cocaine is woefully ill-informed.

I've watched you copy and paste propaganda for two days on this subject and what is overtly apparent is that your anarchistic tendencies are clearly clouding your objectivity. You're either a teenaged stoner or a product of some liberal arts degree in some subject unrelated to anything usable in modern society. I generally don't like to be mean on these pages, but you're as dumb as the bytes you're pushing. I only hope you take my words as a challenge and start shooting heroin or cocaine and try to prove to the world how non-dangerous these substances are. Get back to me after you've fired up your first 8-ball.

Pop-tech in reverse.

BK, one other option for malky.

Re-reading his screeds, he could be, and probably is, an Occutard, along with probably being one of the things you listed. Probably the liberal arts student.

To re-elect Obama would be like the Titanic backing up and hitting the iceberg again.

There are peer-reviewed studies at the end of those links

What do you gain by ignoring them?

The American Journal of Preventive Medicine found that in the U.S. alone, an estimated 79,000 lives are lost annually due to "excessive" drinking. The study estimates that the overall cost of excessive drinking by Americans is $223.5 billion each year.

http://www.ajpmonline.org/article/S0749-3797(11)00538-1/abstract

Health-related costs per user are eight times higher for those who drink alcohol when compared to those who use marijuana, and are more than 40 times higher for tobacco smokers, according to a 2009 review published in the British Columbia Mental Health and Addictions Journal.
It states, "In terms of [health-related] costs per user: tobacco-related health costs are over $800 per user, alcohol-related health costs are much lower at $165 per user, and cannabis-related health costs are the lowest at $20 per user."

http://www.heretohelp.bc.ca/publications/cannabis/bck/7

Having three or more alcoholic drinks a day increased lung cancer risk by 30 percent.
“Heavy drinking has multiple harmful effects, including cardiovascular complications and increased risk for lung cancer,”
- lead researcher Stanton Siu, MD, of Kaiser Permanente

http://www.drugfree.org/join-together/alcohol/heavy-alcohol-consumption-...

Apart from the fact that legal drugs kill far more people than all the illegal drugs combined, debating whether a particular drug is harmless or not is missing the whole point. Are drugs like Heroin, Meth or Alcohol dangerous? It simply doesn't matter, because if we prohibit them then we sure as hell know that it makes a bad situation far worse. If someone wants to attempt to enhance or destroy their lives with particular medicines or poisons, that should be their business, not anybody else's. Their lives aren't ours to direct. And anyway, who wants to give criminals, terrorists and corrupt law enforcement agents a huge un-taxed, endless revenue stream?

A great many of us are slowly but surely wising up to the fact that the best avenue towards realistically dealing with drug use and addiction is through proper regulation which is what we already do with alcohol & tobacco, clearly two of our most dangerous mood altering substances. But for those of you whose ignorant and irrational minds traverse a fantasy plane of existence, you will no doubt remain sorely upset with any type of solution that does not seem to lead to your absurd and unattainable utopia of a drug free society.

Peer-reviewed? That's your defense?

The direction for peer review does not change the answers given by participants to questions regarding their own violation of standing law. And the statistics are apples and oranges- you can't compare use of a legal product and it effects on the user to an illegal product in scope of number of users and costs associated with use. By every historical measure, legalizing a vice will increase it use dramatically.

Seriously, you're going to have to do better than this if you're going to try and compete here.

Funny, as many of you wonder why your daughters are being...

...felt up by TSA goons at the airport.

The so-called "War on Drugs" is one of the main reasons for it.

Sheeple are sheeple, after all.

-Dave

Vote for the American in November

TSA pat downs are part of War on Drugs? Not really...

Absolutely and demonstrably untrue.

"The objective of this screening (process) is to ensure that no threat items are being hidden on the person. These additional searches may take many forms, including pat-downs and use of explosives trace detection."

http://www.tsa.gov/

Whatever you may have imagined with regards to TSA "pat downs" the "War on Drugs" is demonstrably NOT on of the "main reasons" for their implementation.

Further evidence that these "pat downs" had little to do with the illegal drug interdiction is the TSA's continuing efforts to move away from physical pat downs as the norm and move toward tech based detection solutions via AIT or Advanced Imaging Technology.

While I agree that these pat downs were a gross violation of the peoples rights to be secure in their person from unlawful search and seizure their implementation had little or nothing to do with drug interdiction.

No one is after you...you're just paranoid.

Seriously?

Seriously? You post a link to a Google search wherein the results contain the words TSA +War +On + Drugs and you think that refutes the TSA's own site as to what the pat down searchs are designed to accomplish?

You sir are an Idiot of the Highest Magnitude.

Lets see how I do with you little Google Search Method shall we?

http://www.google.com/#hl=en&output=search&sclient=psy-ab&q=Obama+%2B+So...

There ya go, a link that, if we are to use your method of proof, shows that Obama is a Socialist and a Non-citizen.

Dumba$$

War on Drugs

We should have a war on drugs. God bless the men and women who are fighting that war. Those who oppose them who profit from the weaknesses of others are scum.

Steve Cakouros

War on Drugs

We should have a war on drugs. God bless the men and women who are fighting that war. Those who oppose them who profit from the weaknesses of others are scum.

Steve Cakouros

Steve, are you living in an underwater cave?

If you ever decide to surface then check this out : http://www.ciadrugs.com/

The DEA is the CIA’s way of eliminating the competition!

William F. Buckley was for legalized regulation of all drugs - do you honestly think he was scum?

Here is a short excerpt from a statement he gave In 1995, to the New York Bar Association:

"I HAVE spared you, even as I spared myself, an arithmetical consummation of my inquiry, but the data here cited instruct us that the cost of the drug war is many times more painful, in all its manifestations, than would be the licensing of drugs combined with intensive education of non-users and intensive education designed to warn those who experiment with drugs. We have seen a substantial reduction in the use of tobacco over the last thirty years, and this is not because tobacco became illegal but because a sentient community began, in substantial numbers, to apprehend the high cost of tobacco to human health, even as, we can assume, a growing number of Americans desist from practicing unsafe sex and using polluted needles in this age of AIDS. If 80 million Americans can experiment with drugs and resist addiction using information publicly available, we can reasonably hope that approximately the same number would resist the temptation to purchase such drugs even if they were available at a federal drugstore at the mere cost of production."

William F. Buckley - Why Drugs Should Be Legal:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w3OH6SDGqcM

Confused Much?

William F. Buckely said that he advocates the Governmental licensing of Drugs along with a societal effort aimed at "intensive education of non-users and intensive education designed to warn those who experiment with drugs."

Some guy on NewsBusters said: "If someone wants to attempt to enhance or destroy their lives with particular medicines or poisons, that should be their business, not anybody else's. Their lives aren't ours to direct."

Read more: http://newsbusters.org/blogs/matt-hadro/2012/02/13/arianna-huffington-dr...

So what the heck was it that you wanted again because you seemed to be a bit confused.

Could it be.........DRUGS!?! (In best Church Lady voice)

Any drug a man could want is already available to us 24/7

Many of us would prefer they be sold by somebody who's licensed, pays taxes and checks ID.

We can either ask the Tooth Fairy to stop people taking drugs or we can decide to regulate them properly. Prohibition is not regulation, it's a hideous nightmare for all of us and our families - except of course for the lowest lifeforms amongst us.

Because Drug cartels will always have an endless supply of ready cash for wages, bribery and equipment, no amount of tax money, police powers, weaponry, wishful thinking or pseudo-science will make our streets safe again. Only an end to prohibition can do that! How much longer are we willing to foolishly risk our own survival by continuing to ignore the obvious, historically confirmed solution?

We've had decades of interdictions, spraying and raids on jungle drug factories, but Latin America still remains the world's largest exporter of cocaine and marijuana, while Afghanistan, even with American occupation, continues to produce over 90% of the worlds opium and heroin.

To continue prohibition is ludicrous and if you can't see that by now, then you must be on something far stronger than any of us here have even heard of.

Our own government is one of the largest Drug Cartels

If there's still anybody out there who doubts the CIA's involvement in drug-running then they should watch "Mike Ruppert - CIA and Drug Running (1997)"
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7009998324250484369#

And if you really want to know how deep prohibition engendered corruption runs in America, then watch the following:
Part 1 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OKHpVw4yTb4

There are a further 5 parts.

Brililant, malcolm.....

Your first link is from a nutcase 9/11 Truther and the second linke doesn't work.

You're pathetic.

So you won't be hanging around waiting for the other 5 parts?

;)

I can't believe you're not aware of this

Try this one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l6VYd1gpiNk

"Numerous sources indicate the United States Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) has been involved in several drug trafficking operations. The claims go that the CIA worked with groups which it knew were involved in drug trafficking, so that these groups would provide them with useful intelligence and material support, in exchange for allowing their criminal activities to continue,[1] and impeding or preventing their arrest, indictment, and imprisonment by U.S. law enforcement agencies."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CIA_drug_trafficking

Here's a Film that includes clips from mainsteam media at the time, CBS etc.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8681225708920427234

A Troofer and youtube?

Really, you've sat in mom's basement now for a year and 32 weeks and the best you can come up with is a Troofer and some video on youtube?Or the UN or South Americans who profit from drug trafficking?  And the CIA was responsible for Lockerbie?


You're a clown, malky, why don't you just toodle on back down to mom's basement and suck on that bong.  Or take up the challenge that one of the posters gave you, and go mainline that heroin. 

To re-elect Obama would be like the Titanic backing up and hitting the iceberg again.

Initially, ol' malcolm maladroit sounded suspiciously like a ---

lib professor.

Turns out he is just Bizarro Irgon.

MD

"The credibility of the story is undermined by the selection of sources." - (h/t Jer)

Who cares what I am - at least try a rebuttal!

The University of British Columbia, Vancouver, Canada recently reviewed 15 studies that evaluated the association between violence and drug law enforcement. "Our findings suggest that increasing drug law enforcement is unlikely to reduce drug market violence. Instead, the existing evidence base suggests that gun violence and high homicide rates may be an inevitable consequence of drug prohibition and that disrupting drug markets can paradoxically increase violence."

http://tinyurl.com/c4uyecn

Stephen Anderson, a former New York Police Department (NYPD) narcotics detective, recently testified that he regularly saw police plant drugs on innocent people as a way for officers to meet arrest quotas. This practice has cost New York city $1.2 million to settle cases of false arrests. In Anderson's own words: "The corruption I observed ... was something I was seeing a lot of, whether it was from supervisors or undercovers and even investigators," -- Anderson was busted back in 2008 for planting cocaine on four men in a Queens bar.

“This has been going on for forty years. These corruptions are emerging all over the country. It’s not systemic to a police department, per se, but it is systemic to the War on Drugs in the context that the federal government is basically corrupting local government with their funds and the helter-skelter way of putting these task forces together and diverting local police from their basic public safety duties to the priorities of the federal government in terms of the War on Drugs.” -- Former Deputy Chief Stephen Downing, a 20-year veteran of the Los Angeles Police Department (LAPD), who was in charge of implementing Nixon's War on Drugs in Los Angeles.

Sorry, malcolmtent, but 'tis impossible to rebut a ---

butthead.

Bleating, blathering, bombastic, or otherwise.

MD

"The credibility of the story is undermined by the selection of sources." - (h/t Jer)

An appeal to all prohibitionists who are still employed:

Gifting the market in narcotics to criminal cartels, ruthless terrorists and corrupt law enforcement officials is seriously compromising our future. If you even remotely believe that people will one day quit using any of these drugs, then you are exhibiting a degree of naivety parallel only with those poor wretches who voluntarily drank the poisoned Kool-Aid in Jonestown.

Maybe you're a cop, a prison guard or a politician who's scared of losing employment, overtime-pay, kick-backs or those regular bribes. But what good will any of that do you once our society has followed Mexico over the dystopian abyss of dismembered bodies and marauding thugs brandishing gold-plated AK-47s & vats of acid? - Prohibition prevents Regulation. You can chose to help us stop this abomination now!

Protect our Children - Legalize, Regulate & Tax!

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz...............

Seriously???

You're cutting and pasting from your OWN posts now??

What A Hoot

Malcolmtent's posts remind me of this.

"Malcolmtent', strat, is the ---

Winnah !!!

MD

"The credibility of the story is undermined by the selection of sources." - (h/t Jer)

Thanks for playing guys and girlies!

.. and shortly before our society falls completely into an abyss, may Tough on Crime morph into Smart on Crime.

See you all sometime in late spring, God Bless!

Is that when you look for a mate, Loon?

Or is that when you fly back north after the winter? Whatever. Clean up the loon vomit you left all over this page before you go.

If there is anyone here left with the tiniest bit of respect...

...left for this utterly prolific word vomiting loon. Kindly get the lights on the way out.

Click....

.

To re-elect Obama would be like the Titanic backing up and hitting the iceberg again.

Thanks alot UpNorth

Now I won't be able to see what his opinions are on incest or if he uses the "soldiers of tyranny" line.

Comment viewing options

Select your preferred way to display the comments and click "Save settings" to activate your changes.