Obama Declines To Defend U.S. Bombing Of Hiroshima, Nagasaki

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Defending the decision of the United States to drop nuclear weapons on Hiroshima and Nagasaki during WWII is not a comfortable thing to do when you're in Japan.  But if you're President of the United States, you must do it. Diplomatically, yes.  With sympathy for the civilian victims, yes.  But you must do it.

But when it came time today for Barack Obama to fulfill that fundamental duty, he failed. The very first reporter [from Fuji TV] called on at the joint press conference with PBO and Japanese PM Hatoyama in Tokyo today put the question to Pres. Obama in blunt and explicit terms:

JAPANESE REPORTER: What is your understanding of the historical meaning of the A-bombing in Hiroshima and Nagasaki?  Do you think it was the right decision?

Obama took a deep breath, paused . . . and punted.

PBO gave a halting response that utterly failed to answer the question.  The closest he came was to observe that Japan "has a unique perspective on the issue of nuclear weapons as a consequence of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, and I'm sure it helps to motivate the Prime Minister's deep interest in this issue."

The reporter tried again: "do you believe the US dropping of nuclear weapons on --"

Obama cut him off, choosing to answer an unrelated question on the situation in North Korea.

Will the MSM report Obama's duck and cover?


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Japanese tea bagger

 probabaly works for FOKS News.

"What a revoltin' development this is!"

Chester Riley

Now I'm sure I made the right decision..

....not to vote for this clown, what a spineless coward. Off course bombing Japan was the right decision.

"Off course bombing Japan

"Off course bombing Japan was the right decision."

On course bombing, too ;-)

lol,

Good morning Mark

Cut me some slack here, When I made that post, it was only 5:09am here and I am bad speller to begin with ;-)

Slack cut, with pleasure.

Slack cut, with pleasure. But I couldn't help myself from making the play on words ;-)

shawn

LOL-Off-course bombing? 

Not much help that would have been. 

Sorry, but I just couldn't help myself. 

-Dave

Our elected representatives have failed us.  

Glad to hear that Shawn...

Just one question...What took you so long to be sure? Heaven knows, he's given us all ample reason in the last 10 months to be sure that we were right not to vote for him.

Whatever, just glad that you see Obama for what he truly is (and isn't)...Too bad others didn't share your clarity of thought.  

"The problem is not that people are taxed too little...the problem is that government spends too much." ~President Ronald Reagan

Thoughtful...measured...pensive...scumsucking

His handlers and speechwriters HAD to know he was going to be asked this question above all others - he couldn't have had a proper response prepared that wouldn't embarrass us yet again?

CIC my ass. 

Contined embarassments

Obama's "foreign policy" is one huge embarassment.  Let's see, yank the rug out from under the Poles & Czechs, (giving in to Russia in the process), 3 months of dithering on Afghanistan (can you say Poke-eee-ston?  I knew you could), bowing to the Saudi king, dissing the Queen of England twice, with an iPod and at the D-Day commemoration (this one really makes me mad...like she's the only world leader who actually served!), dissing our best ally (England again) by returning the Churchill bust, repeatedly snubbing Gordon Brown, arrogantly dismissing Sarcozy, bizarr-Obama-centric presentation to the Olympic committee....sheesh, my fingers are getting tired.

Old Hillary was right about that 3:00 a.m. call, which perhaps, is why Obama made her SOS.  What?  He never calls her, you say?  No kidding.  He knows he's a rank amateur but is too arrogant to admit it.  "Naif" doesn't begin to describe his performance thus far.  We need a new word for galactically naive and stupid.

I hope he fails, too.

 

 

At least that "reaching out to the muslim world" is going well

Heh.

And all that in less than a

And all that in less than a year!!

Add "giving the 9-11

Add "giving the 9-11 mastermind access to U.S. Constitutional protections by "trying" him, and others, in NYC". This will allow a liberal judge to declare waterboarding "torture", thereby opening up the gates to try the real criminals -- our CIA and other battlefield warriers.

Now that is galactically naive and stupid!

__________
"mmm, mmm, mm. Barrack-Hussain-Øbama↓." - The liberals coolaid drinking song

We need a new word for

We need a new word for galactically naive and stupid.

How about "Obamic" ?

Galactically naive and stupid---

Blonde:

A compilation of galactically naive and stupid works out to:

"Liberal".

Cheers.

MD

 "There is no distinctly American criminal class - except Congress."

Mark Twain (1835-1910)

Great suggestions, all

 

I hope he fails, too.

 

 

My respect for this moron as

My respect for this moron as a person has found a new low. This was an absolutely pathetic, cowardly and unacceptable response.

Hey, be thankful that at least he didn't apologize for it!

Oh, wait!  He said he wanted to go there in the future! That's when he will apologize!

And something tells me his wife, if she is with him, will dress more appropriately than she did at Arlington cemetery and the Medal of Honor ceremony.  

Time to drag out that "meeting the Pope" outfit, if not a dress made of sackcloth!

(edited)

Will Obama Apologize

Obama plans a "historic" (to the clowns in the fringe media) trip to Hiroshima an Nagaski.

The question is out there. Will he apologize.  In my view, if he does, he should be removed from office.

I definitely should have

I definitely should have noticed that sooner, mb. And I completely agree that he should be removed from office if he apologizes for that.

And immediately after that

And immediately after that huge display of lack of spine, the leadership of Iran, nKorea, Russia, China, AQ, and the Taliban looked at each other - grinned and ordered their followers to "ruck up."

No wonder he is viewed as weaker than Carter.

Ruck Up

It's been a while since I've heard that phrase.

 

"Beware the fury of the patient man." - John Dryden

I'm assuming it means

I'm assuming it means "cheer up" or something like that?

I've never heard it.

mb...it means

Get your gear on (rucksack), time to move out and get back to business. 

Did you see Saving Private Ryan?  After they take out the machine gun nest, they get into the big to do about whether to kill the German or let him go.  The Sgt gets really mad at Pvt. Riven, and tells him to "ruck up".

I hope he fails, too.

 

 

I should have figured that,

I should have figured that, because I've heard my Army son refer to his "ruck."

Thanks.

Off Topic

Thank you Motherbelt for raising a son to serve in the Military. May harm never come to him in any form or fashion. 

"For a people who are free, and who mean to remain so, a well-organized and armed militia is their best security."

Weaker than Carter? I told you so!

Before last year's election I warned that "Ears" was Jimmy Carter, only with bigger ears. As the year has unfolded, I can only say: I told you so!

As for you 69 million suckers who fell for the MSM's lies and voted for this clown...are you happy now?  

are you happy now?

Probably not, but I know of 535 that are -- these are members of Congress, who are still sucking up the obama coolaid.

__________
"mmm, mmm, mm. Barrack-Hussain-Øbama↓." - The liberals coolaid drinking song

BHO's response is shameful.

BHO's response is shameful. Since all history started in January, 2009, he has no knowledge of Hiroshima or Nagasaki. He is a complete amateur and our country is paying a terrible price.

What a limp ......

He can't even figure out if he wants to win in Afghanistan....and they want to know if he thinks we should have dropped the bomb? How comical is that? 

Well...

... he's just not sure that America winning World War Two was a good thing... 

=====

"Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views."
-- William F. Buckley

Idiot

We will have to embrace change to keep up with Obama. Change the phrase 'The buck stops here' to 'The buck stops somewhere else, wherever it hurts me least'. What a pandering, simpering, girly-man we have in the Whitehouse. How sad for our country. Political correctness and affirimative action will destroy America.

D

Write your Congress and Senate and tell them what YOU think!

Keep the ILLEGALS out, join NumbersUSA to send free faxes to your reps.

Stuck on stupid . . .

He should've dismissed the reporter's question as "old history, like the Rape of Nanjing, the Bataan Death March, and Unit 731." 

The real problem with Obama's stumbling over an answer is that it raises real doubts about his ability to order the use of US nukes.  Can Obama order a nuclear counterattack in the minutes before the first Russian or Chinese nuclear warheads strike the United States?  Could he even issue the order after the first strike? 

Moscow and Beijing are watching his behavior very closely.  

 

Moscow and Beijing are watching his behavior very closely.

I'm sure that the Russians and the Chi-Coms are laughing so hard they're in tears every time this pathetic, prissy, clueless fraud we have as POTUS trips over his own d**k and embarrasses us yet again.  Why not just send Biden?  I think the psychological damage would actually be less.

And I don't think that he has the guts to order a defensive nuke strike even after we got hit by a enemy warhead! Didn't he tell Putin that he intends to start unilaterally scraping our nukes as a gesture that we are not a threat to the Russians and Chi-Coms. Certainly not with Obamas-a-liar running the show!

Man, are we screwed!

Seabeach

Are you absolutely sure he has male gentials?  

Semper suprene nitens

OBAMACARE: If it ain't good enough for my Congressman then it ain't good enough for me.  

 

  nerf

 

nerf balls

 

http://gjresult.com

 

Send Joe

At least with Joe they'd tread carefully, seeing as we sent a certifiable lunatic that no one can figure out.
With BOBO, they know they have a spineless wuss who can't make a decision to save his life.
Sam: "I hurt somebody's feelings once"

quick answer

NO.
Sam: "I hurt somebody's feelings once"

JAPANESE REPORTER: Do you

JAPANESE REPORTER: Do you think it was the right decision? (to drop the atomic bomb) 

Obama: Present.

 

I wouldn't recommend sex, drugs or insanity for everyone, but they've always worked for me. - Hunter S. Thompson

Bingo!!!!

You said it.

What a Commander.  I sleep better at night knowing Obama has my back.

NOT!!

 

Yeah

Yep, I haven't been sleeping to well either.
Sam: "I hurt somebody's feelings once"

The Japanese didn't get the memo

Evidently the Japanese press corps didn't the memo about King Obama.

They should know better than to press him to answer a question he obviously did not answer.  Much like The One's interview with NBC where he got called out for attacking Fox News.  She quoted his advisors at nailed him with it point blank, and he DENIED the quotes and ignored the question.

Every day Obama is exposed as the amateur America-hating leftist that he is.  The most unpresidential President in U.S. history.  Congratulations, Democrats and liberals.  You've elected a boy King, and he is killing our nation.

 

Honesty

We've all had bosses or colleagues who we've learned to distrust because we know they're entirely into spin. They can't be honest. You know, when you're speaking to them, that they're telling you whatever's to their advantage. 

Obama says only what he thinks will benefit him, and avoids anything else. This is a leader?  

We should cut diplomatic

We should cut diplomatic ties with Japan immediately!  Who do they think they are, asking our dear leader a question without his TP there to answer for him?  Remember, Japan is our strongest ally in that region, so they can expect severe repercussions.   

I told my wife the other

I told my wife the other day that I really wanted to meet a reporter, ask them what they do, and then laugh at them when they told me they were a reporter. Maybe questions like this one will start rubbing off on our media. Wishful thinking, I guess.

Only two forms of government? Find out why... http://www.flixxy.com/political-system.htm

there is such a disconnect

Holeinthehull

What a coward this man is.  He has the balls of a moth

 

Imus said it

"Whiny, little titty baby".

Mmmm Mmm Mmmmmm!

"What a revoltin' development this is!"

Chester Riley

Understandable

The answer wasn't on his teleprompter, so how could he possibly know an answer?

Best response to Obama is to giggle when he talks - ACA

Keep a glass of water handy.  He talks a LOT!

I haven't heard anything new from him in 9 months.  Of course the more stupid decisions made by his administration are announced by other people.

Bringing the Gitmo folks here with full protection of the US Constitution for their trials must be his idea of upholding and defending...

Right.

 The rape of Nanking (original spelling) was so atrocious that it actually denuded the population curve.  The Japanese slaughter of POW (American, British and Australian) was of such a magnitude that nearly the entire legion of the New Mexico National Guard was wiped out.

And the alternative was to actually invade Japan with about 1 million men who would have taken insane casualities.

Or...

We could drop the bomb(s).

Truman was right and he was a real Democrat when the Party was sane.

ACA 

 

...

Quoted from: 'Acaiguana notes from the Underground' (Soon to be at theaters near you)

And the alternative was to

And the alternative was to actually invade Japan with about 1 million men who would have taken insane casualities.

Great point Aca, most people don't realize how many potential deaths would have happened if Operation Olympic would have taken place.  The Allies would have blockaded Japan with Navy, the Allies had air superiorty, and the Soviets were coming as well.  Japan needs only to look at East Germany, and North Korea to see what would have happened to Japan if the Soviets had come.

http://www.operationolympic.com/

Also, Nagasaki wasn't the last bombs dropped  on Japan.  Japan didn't immediately surrender after Hiroshima or Nagasaki.  In fact hardliners in the Japanese military were planning a military coup, because they didn't want to surrender.  The Americans launched another bombing run after the bombs on Nagasaki, and the military coup was averted.

http://home.att.net/~sallyann2/smith1.html

http://textbooksrus.com/search/bookdetail/default.aspx?isbn=9780767907798

Between Iwo Jima and Okinawa

There were 75000 casualties. I have even heard it said that after Okinawa the Marine Corps was pretty much destroyed. Imagine the casualties in invading Japan. The flip side of that coin is that instead of several hundred thousand deaths the Japanese would have suffered casualties in the millions (as high as 10 million have been put forth). Millions of Japanese lives were saved by the bomb. Besides what is the difference between using an atomic bomb and firebombing a city with thousands of incendiary bombs which if we hadn't used the bombs we still would have made hell on earth with conventional bombings. The "logic" of the anti's postition besides being extremely revisionist is untenable.

I have to put up with this question every August when the Anti bombing crowd demonstrates at the Air and Space Museum or some other liberal apologist writes a column condemning that decision.

"Somehow, I told you so, just doesn't quite say it." Will Smith in 'I, Robot.'

Fire bombing

Not to mention that Japan builds with wood and paper, whereas Dresden (which we firebombed to smithereens) was built of stone.

I hate these revisionists.  I have a signed copy of the Enola Gay ("Paul Tibbetts, Pilot).  One of my treasures.  Some day I'm going to go to D.C. and see her in person. 

I hope he fails, too.

 

 

(deleted)

(deleted)

Also...

... I've seen it written that the Japanese resistance would've gone underground after the fall of their regular army; just as with Southeast Asia where America essentially defeated the NVA on the field of battle, but lost to the Viet Cong. The Japanese would've done the same thing, and the war would've lasted well into the 1950s.

Further, from a more philosophical (and impossible to prove) point-of-view, it is entirely possible that the fact that we're still here as a species is attributable to the atomic raids.  

If we lived in a world which had never seen the horrific effect of nuclear weapons on an urban population, our leaders may not have been so disinclined to use the weapons at a later time when both sides had significant numbers of them (say, during Korea or the Cuban Missile Crisis).  So, in a very real way, I believe the examples of Hiroshima and Nagasaki saved, not millions, but billions of lives .....

=====

"Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views."
-- William F. Buckley

Excellent post, Carl.  The

Excellent post, Carl.  The significance of potential Soviet influence in the regiion cannot be overstated.  It was no small irony that having openly solicited a Red Army second front for most of the war, our interests dramatically shifted once the nuclear option became a reality, and employing it was meant to impress and deter Stalin as well as--perhaps as much as--to force Japan's capitulation.

Of course, after Hiroshima, Stalin jumped in hoping to share in the spoils.  Scholars are divided in their opinion regarding the effect Soviet intervention had on the Japanese decision to surrender. 

Jer

Thanks Jer, always good to

Thanks Jer, always good to see you.  Also, if you look at the reasons for the Korean War, it all goes back to the Soviet involvement in Korea.  Without the Soviets ever being in Korea, there never would have been a Korean War.  Who knows what happens if there is the same scenario in Japan as with East/West Germany and North/South Korea?

 

I lived for years in the

I lived for years in the Hiroshima area and have studied our rationale for dropping the bomb on that city.  It was a tough call back then, but certainly made easier by the way we demonized their entire race. Yes, we shortened the war, but way too many innocents died. I wonder sometimes if the same bombs could have been dropped on much less populated areas and still impressed the Japanese war mongers that it was time to call it quits.   

This is probably a forum topic, but ...

The bomb decision is a classic dilemma in moral philosophy. 

  • It's debatable, but I assert that the bomb decision is no different from the decision to go to war in the first place. The bomb decision is the same decision, with an extra twist, the addition of technology. It also calls into question the premise of war -- does one fight the opposing military, or can you target civilians as well? 
  • Normally, most "just war" theories assume that you can only attack military forces. Originally, that meant you could only attack armies. Sherman's march took the theory one step further; it included the right to attack locations that supported the opposing army. What made the bomb decision so difficult, morally, is that Hiroshima and Nagazaki were civilian population centers. They had military significance, but they were within the confines of civilian populations. 
  • At this point, history stepped back to question whether there was any useful moral distinction between a half million people dying in a bomb attack or a million soldiers (on both sides) dying in an invasion. 

Unless you clearly separate all military support installations from civilian population centers, it's hard to make the case that civilian populations centers are immune from attack. That's the fraud behind terrorism: they hide their ability to attack behind innocent civilians. Sooner or later, if you hide behind civilians but continue to attack, the other side has no choice but to attack indiscriminately, endangering soldiers and civilians alike.

That's why I'd argue that dropping the bomb, though horrible, has as much justification as the decision to go to war in the first place. If the war was justified (the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor, not to mention Bataan and the Philippines, clinched that one), then the decision to drop the bomb was equally justified. 

Of course...

if the Japanese hadn't bombed Pearl Harbor on Dec. 7th, 1941, this moral discussion would not be necessary. It's also important to remember that days before the bombs were dropped, the US Military forwarned the civilian populations of both Hiroshima and Nagasaki with leaflets urging them to leave and find safety elsewhere. I don't think Japan would have offered the same consideration.

Targeting civilians?

But nobody killed more then Japan, seriously, who should be thanking us more then China? 

And what was that about us ?

the way we demonized their entire race.

Ridiculous! These folks were animals, they even recorded their atrocities for prostarity

60 years later its easy to play Mon morn QB. But why should we continue to send our Sons off to the Pacific for another couple years, when we have a chance to end it in days. To damn easy to say today, we should had done this or that. To few people today can even understand what an impact that war had on this country. Folks whine about the current conflicts, how many of these whiners Have been impacted by the fight to keep them from being blown up by Islamic fascist? 

 

My Gov. thinks I am dangerous, so be careful

"Television is a freak show" Bernie Goldberg

http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&rlz=1B3GGGL_enUS290US292&q=bataan+...

KC - your reply to pewah was terrific!

I appreciate how you took out the emotional response and explained in terms of history.  Perhaps this will help pewah to think a little deeper than the feelings level of analyzing actions during wartime.

PS pewah - The Japenese did a pretty good job behaving like demons.  Simply exposing/reporting their behavior was not 'demonizing' them.

 

"How strangely will the Tools of a Tyrant pervert the Plain Meaning of Words!" ~Sam Adams

  There are two ways to

 

There are two ways to fight wars.

Choice number one.  Fight to WIN in the fewest number of moves, and prevent more than absolutely necessary casualties.

Choice number two. The democrat way to drag it out, cause as many casualites as possible, then pull out and allow millions to die due to poorly planned strategies dictated by political concerns.

President Bush played the politically correct scenario, which enabled the democrat plan to come into action in Afghanistan.

http://gjresult.com

 

KC...a very good response. I

KC...a very good response. I agree with a lot of what you've said, however, in the case of Hiroshima and Nagasaki I still assert that it would have been very easy to drop the bombs adjacent to the main population centers of the cities and still have impressed the Japanese of the futility of their continuing on with the war. From conversations I had years ago with residents of Hiroshima, they knew that they were losing the war and they had no desire to die in a futile fight.

I agree that the Japanese military acted in horrific ways towards our soldiers, civilians, etc. I've met several soldiers who were part of their incursions into China and Korea and their feelings of guilt and shame were obvious when we talked about what was done there. Their acts against the Koreans and Chinese sicken me.

 

My biggest disappointment in your response was your passe use of the age old justification of our indiscriminate firebombing of Tokyo and the nuking of Hiroshima and Nagasaki because of what they did to us at Bataan and Pearl Harbor. 24k dead vs. 100's of thousands doesn't really balance out in my mind. Especially when we're talking soldiers vs. mostly civilians. 

The killing of innocents is sometimes inevitable and it is idiotic to fight wars the way we do now in the middle east, but the targeting and slaughtering innocents wholesale and genetically maiming future generations as we did in Japan was without question overkill.

Do you think for a moment that the U.S. would have ever used/tested those same weapons on ANY European targets?

 

Do you think for a moment

"Do you think for a moment that the U.S. would have ever used/tested those same weapons on ANY European targets?"

Didn't need to.  The Nazis saw what an ass-whipping we bestowed with extreme prejudice and precision uponThe Japanese Empire and p-p-p-probably shat themselves.

Citizen Commentators Unite!

http://www.politicalintegritynow.com/

http://www.donaldborschjr.blogspot.com/

That's not what I said

My argument was that the morality of the bombing was decided by the morality of the war. I didn't say that the horror of the response was justified by the horror of the attack. Big difference. I never argued that once Bataan and Pearl harbor happened, we had carte blanche to be as savage as we wanted. 

Having conversations with residents of Hiroshima doesn't prove anything about what Tojo would have decided. After all, would a conversation with a resident of ... say, Richmond Virginia ... prove anything about what we could expect from Bush or Obama?

WTF! Pewah......

Are you really sure you studied anything? Doesn't sound like it to me. 

 You sir, are a complete numbskull and a dangerous person on top of that. 

 Please read up on the history of the war, particularly as it pertains to the Tokyo Bombings that killed a lot more of your  so-called innocents during this B-29 campaign.  In fact, on one night alone over 100K people died during the bombings and subsequent  firestorms. 

Also, let me remind you that the Japanese didn't care a flip about any civilian populations of the nations they conquered.  And trust me, if they would have had the bomb nobody in their government or civilian population (at that time) would have lost a night's sleep over bombing any city outside of Japan. 

The object war is to win and to inflict enough pain on the military as well as civilian population that they begin to realize that their war efforts cannot be sustained.  Also, the Japanese were the beligerants in that war and our job was to save AMERICAN and allies lives not Japanese. 

Sorry to say it but it's people like you that have gotten us into all of our messes where we didn't make a full-on effort to win because we were pussy-footing around with the enemy. 

Sorry, no thanks and you sir can keep your brand of compassion.  The enemy is the enemy....civilians and all and until we truly wakeup to the realizations of waging a true war, we will continue to be defeated and our nation will suffer.  Perhaps we have an obligation to get along with the people in the world through diplomacy, trade relations, humanitarian efforts etc. but not when they are trying to kill us!!!!

And just so you know it, I have lived, worked and loved in Japan for many, many, many years.  In fact, I now have a great respect for their country and consider it my second home, however, I'm not going to whitewash history just so everyone can feel all warm and fuzzy.  Out of respect for present day Japanese, I usually do not discuss WWII with them but if one of them ever asked me what I thought I never ran away from tellling him/her the God's honest truth as I see it.

Schools out...now go play with the other kiddies. Sayonara.

 

 

"Race doesn't matter..liberals are only one color - YELLOW"

ShangaiRay---

SR:

Your reply to Pewah was, without doubt, the single best responsive post I have ever read at NB.

1,   The object of war is, indeed, to win.

2,   By whatever measures necessary, period.

Being humans, we are stupid enough to engage in war.

We then compound that stupidity by saying, as in WW I:

Ok, blow 'em up with artillery, shoot 'em, stab 'em, choke 'em 'til their eyes roll back in their head; but, for Gods' sake,  all of us combatants must agree to outlaw the use of poison gas.

What?

Oh, yeah.  Would'nt want any military folks to suffer pain or any other type of discomfort before we KILL 'em.

Go in fast, go in hard, go in to win.  That mind set limits the overall injuries, fatalities, and duration.

The Human Race. 

Shades of brilliance, tones of compassion, but always the chance of sliding off into sheer stupidity.

Awesome a**holes.  The accent can be on either word, depending on the day of the week.

MD

"There is no distinctly American criminal class - except Congress."

Mark Twain (1835-19100    

           

Ignorance...wrapped in stupid. You cover other peoples thoughts poorly.

Pewah--

I was skimming along looking for a prior post, and your reply caught my eye.

Whether the statement you made is a reply to me, or to ShanghaiRays' post---

I checked your Bio and noted that you had neglected to mention that you were impeccably credentialed, and possessed of a genius I.Q.

Based on your deep, philosophical comeback, you really should work on thinking more highly of yourself.

MD

"There is no distinctly American criminal class - except Congress."

Mark Twain (1835-1910)

Ray...I'm glad that you have

Ray...I'm glad that you have "...loved in Japan for many, many, many years."  Whatever that means.

Your meat and potatoes retort was something that has undoubtedly earned you the respect of others of your ilk...thick-headed simpletons who often sound like they were immunized at birth from original thought.

I hope you took advantage of all of your years in Japan to study your ji's...目明き千人、盲千人.

くたばっちまえ!!

  And your ever so original thoughts of helping the enemy while at the same time not thinking too inches past your own nose is what got/gets Americans killed.  But your ilk, as you put it, doesn't care about that.  You are obviously the type who goes to dinner at some Japanese person's house and wants to win a popularity contest with your hosts by showing how caring and openminded you are towards the suffering they inflicted upon themselves and leave with a smile on your face because you think you impressed them with your self-deprecation.

"Race doesn't matter..liberals are only one color - YELLOW"

Pewah, his response was excellent. You are being condescending

when you you refer to us as

"...thick-headed simpletons who often sound like they were immunized at birth from original thought."

We are using facts, not empathy, in this debate. While I too love a lot about Japan it does not mean we close off our minds to the reality that was or the reality that is. It is just incomprehensible that you do not seem to understand common facts concerning this aspect of the war.

I guess it is much easier to just play us off as dummies than address the truth.

LOL Shanghai : ) Great post : )

I've lived in Japan and have a wife who is Japanese by blood...although duel citizenship American/Canadian... nihon no tabemono ga oishii desu ne

Hello

 As I said, I have also lived in Japan and quite frankly like the Japanese very much.  But liking Japanese doesn't mean I have to hate myself or my country to get along.  The Japanese have basically learned their lessons and are all-around pretty darn good people that have faults just like everyone else.  Now, that is.  Things have changed but trying to change history or somehow make people feel better by lying to them is definitely not the way to win respect.  Today's Japanese deserve respect and admiration for turning their warmongering meglomaniac country around, and for the the most part many Japanese like America and have a deep-seeded respect for us.  That respect didn't come from letting them push us around and beg them to forgive us.

"Race doesn't matter..liberals are only one color - YELLOW"

I could not have said it better Shanghai. Spent the entire

summer in Iwatsuki (north of Tokyo) in '93 with my wife. Loved it, but hated the rainy season.

Nice to meet you here at NBs :)

Great

Perhaps you are a fan of onsens like I am.  Iwatsuki is a great place for food and outdoor life. 

"Race doesn't matter..liberals are only one color - YELLOW"

I never went to one of those while on the mainland. It rained

almost every day during the summer in Iwatsuki, but I did enjoy my stay there. I lived in Okinawa for three years while stationed in Okinawa. Lived in my own apartment and studied a lot of the language. Afterwords, I did shorter stays in the mainland, but just enough to know Okinawa is very different than life near Tokyo.

Pewah, No.

There was extensive bombing that took place prior to the Potsdam Declaration and then there were three days between Hiroshima and Nagasaki in which the Japanese declined to surrender.  The loss of innocent life is always a tragedy but history must be judged in accordance to the standards of the times and the probable alternatives.  The alternatives would have been tragic and possibly even have resembled genocide.

--History shows that the belief that war does not solve issues or that the threat of war is not an effective and very important part of negotiation  leads to death of innocents lives over generations with a great deal of life and treasure sacrificed to the illusion of lasting peace.  The responsible use of power and reasonable show of force saves lives.  These two military ideas are what has separated the US from all other military powers in history and part of what makes this country great.

 

A person may be won over with logic and reason but the masses must be bought with spectacle and platitudes. - 2008 Elections

You are correct,  THe

You are correct,  THe notion that a demonstration bombing would have the desired effect was disproven by the fact that neither the firebombing of Tokyo in which MORE people were killed, nor the actual bombing of Hiroshima caused the desired effect.

Therefore we could assume that the entire US arsenal could have been employed on open fields and the Japanese seeing so adverse effect would simply continue the fight.  Demonstrations do not move centers of gravity.

Pewah is using the emotion argument rather than the logical argument.

demonstrations - good point

Recent accounts show us that demonstrations will only cause our enemies to alter their tactics at best.  North Korea, Iran and Russia still have the same goals but have chosen a more politically correct form of attack that allows the UN powers to have multi-million dollar dinners and discuse the welfare of the starving without actually showing any backbone.  We (US & UN) make demonstratations while freedoms, lives and wealth are subverted around the world.

The powerful are always a target for those seeking a common enemy but Bush was a poor spokesman with a good heart and Obama is a decent spokesman but an apologist who won't defend the US.  US being a target does not suprise me but the number of our own people that don't understand the difference between benevolent power and dictoral power constantly amaze me.  Has the US made mistakes - of course but we are judged by our mistakes while dictators are judged on their unfulfilled promises.

 

A person may be won over with logic and reason but the masses must be bought with spectacle and platitudes. - 2008 Elections

A teensy little correction

A teensy little correction to your assertions if I may...

"but Bush was a poor spokesman with a good heart"

Bush was always portrayed by the media as 'not being a good spokesman'.  He NEVER needed a teleprompter, and if the one he was using fell apart, or the tech screwed up, he wasn't lost.

"Obama is a decent spokesman"

obama is an excellent reader of a teleprompter. 

So far, THAT is his only skill.

 

 

"no matter how low you set the bar, liberals can never quite measure up." -Me

http://gjresult.com

 

WLJ,

Your sentiment may be correct but I have to disagree.  Bush was not as bad of a speaker as the media made him out to be but he was not really that good.  He was an effective speaker for those who cared to listen but no better.

 

Barak is a decent “spokesman” because with a prepared speech and teleprompter he can command attention through oratory.  That is all.  He only motivates those who are ready to be motivated and he seems incapable of true debate.  His prepared speeches are delivered well but substance free.  His freelance work makes George Bush look like Reagan.  However to be fair you have to give Barak his style points when prepared.

 

When it comes to oratory skills we don’t need a Reagan to lead this country  but if the person is to be a conservative or Republican then their skills better be excellent or they won’t survive the media.

 

A person may be won over with logic and reason but the masses must be bought with spectacle and platitudes. - 2008 Elections

ok, I somewhat agree. Can

ok, I somewhat agree.

Can we both agree that neither would be classified as stellar STATESMEN?

"no matter how low you set the bar, liberals can never quite measure up." -Me

http://gjresult.com

 

Instead of a spokesman I

Instead of a spokesman I would rather have a President and Duh Vain One is no President.

Have you ever studied

The atrocities the Japanese committed against the Chinese, Koreans and American POWS? Or how they tergeted American civilians with futile hot air balloons which got lucky a couple times? Thatnk goodness they did not have nukes, since it's obvious they wouldn't have thought twice about using them.

I've always said that they

I've always said that they would have used them on us...if their R&D would have been a little faster.  

Pewah, 3- A bombs was 100% of our nuclear supplies.

What is shocking is we used the second one on a city. The Japs still did not believe it. So we used  the 3 rd. and last one on another city. If we demostrated one in the countryside. We would still need another one! At the time one more bomb would have taken another 9-12 months to build..

Just ask the Iranians how hard it is to assemble an A-Bomb... 

 

State controlled health care ! music video.

Pewah-See my above post.

"Somehow, I told you so, just doesn't quite say it." Will Smith in 'I, Robot.'

~"Demonizing the race"

I know someone who was in that war, and to the day I die I will never forget his story of finding his friends bodies with their genitals cut off. The Japanese made demons of themselves without any help from us.

In order to be pro-choice, one must first be born. Ah, the irony.

 

Saved Lives.

"The atomic bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki was the right decison because it ultimately saved hundreds of thousands of Japanese and American lives by ending the war." That was all that he needed to say but...that would be expecting too much.

MAN CHILD OBOZO

 Notice how puffy eyed obozo looks these days?

He looks like he been crying.

 Boo Hoo, this is a real hard job.

 You got to watch what you ask for homey,

you just might get it.

 The Government is the Enemy 

hmmm

Those eyes are probably like that from not getting enough sleep due to hitting the meth pipe too often.
Sam: "I hurt somebody's feelings once"

What was the question...... nevermind, I have a pre-ready answer

I did not think it was possible for me to distrust this coward with my families safety anymore than I already did. 

Congratulations Coward in chief, you have uh, uh, uh, uh reached a new "milestone" in gutless pandering.

This must have been the Fox news Tokyo affiliate, Axelfraud, Fishboy, Chrissy, bathtub boy and the 13 year old boy will all call them out tonight for their "bias".  

This reporter will beat out Miss Prejean For the "worst person in the world".  

 

 

A great man once said, YOU only get out of life what YOU put into it, he obviously wasn't a liberal.

 "Can Obama order a

 "Can Obama order a nuclear counterattack in the minutes before the first Russian or Chinese nuclear warheads strike the United States?  Could he even issue the order after the first strike?"

 

No. I`m not even sure he would be upset about it. 

"Defending the decision of

"Defending the decision of the United States to drop nuclear weapons on Hiroshima and Nagasaki during WWII is not a comfortable thing to do when you're in Japan.  But if you're President of the United States, you must do it. Diplomatically, yes.  With sympathy for the civilian victims, yes.  But you must do it."

 

Any other President been asked that question under similar circumstances?

Any other President been

Any other President been asked that question under similar circumstances?

Count me as curious, too.  It's easy to criticize Obama's evasiveness, but when you're baited with that type of question in a host country, dodging it may be the most diplomatic response.

Jer

Jer, I would imagine even

Jer, I would imagine even you could answer that one in a succint manner and say yes it was needed to save lives on both sides.

Yes, Dan... "Even I"

Yes, Dan...

"Even I" could answer as you suggest--particularly since it would reflect my honest opinion.  But you know how the media can spin.  If so inclined, they can twist any such response into a major controversy.

Jer

A politician would respond diplomatically.

A statesman and leader would respond directly and honestly.

Obama could bring himself to do neither.

He's nothing but an empty suit filled only with the Marxist anti-American rantings of his many mentors and associates.

As GUN CONTROL has nothing to do with GUNS, so HEALTH CONTROL has nothing to do with HEALTH.

Tyranny is rarely felt save by those who OPPOSE it. (unknown)

Tg... You're dead on the

Tg...

You're dead on the mark!

'Doubling down on stupid is not a particularly good idea'~Breitbart

Wasn't it after Pearl Harbor?

"My white mom was only 2 years old then."

 

Not relevant. 

It was just more mess left behind by Bush for this fine presidency to clean up.

 

 

We know Obama's MO by now:

We know Obama's MO by now: when there is an opportunity to embarrass the US, make her look foolish, weak, guilty of crimes, inept, greedy, mean spirited, selfish and cruel, Obama will take advantage of it.

The person who should be the United State's most enthusiastic supporter has a need  to degrade her to anyone who will listen.

We would have been far more surprised had Obama rightly defended the US action in Japan. But he could not find the decency, honesty, and leadership to do that. And he never will.

No citizen's right to life, liberty, pursuit of happiness, or property is safe as long as Obama is President of the United States.

Didn't obama already answer

Didn't obama already answer that question right after the Ft Hood terrorist attack? "Don't rush to judgement". Or right after the incident at Harvard University? "The [white] police officer acted stupidly". Or how to respond when his hand-picked General asked for more troops? "We need time to absorb the assessment of the Afghanistan security situation". Or how to adress terrorism? "Call them man-made disasters". Or how to identify terrorists? "Pro-lifers and American veterans".

All of his previous answers lead to one path, and one path only -- anti-American hate.

__________
"mmm, mmm, mm. Barrack-Hussain-Øbama↓." - The liberals coolaid drinking song

I'm surprised he didn't give his normal "dodge" remark.

"Spending time considering the appropiateness of dropping the Atomic Bomb on Japan in World War Two is not at the top of my priority list."

Or: "The answer to that

Or: "The answer to that question is above my pay grade."

Ding-ding-ding! Give that

Ding-ding-ding!

Give that man a cigar!

 

One Big A$$ Mistake, America 

Hiroshima, Nagasaki, and B.O.

More proof that our commander in chief is an outright coward.

Hell yes it was the right decision.  The question was like a bully asking a victim that fought back if it was right for him to get a black eye.  NEVER FORGET THE FACT THAT JAPAN STARTED THE WHOLE FIGHT WHEN THE STAGED AN UNPROVOKED ATTACK ON PERL HARBOR.  It's just too bad we didn't have more nukes to drop on them.  They started the fight, we ended it.  It was the right decision then, and it will be the right decision if we are ever put in that position again.  Obama is just too much of a COWARD and too ANTI- U.S. and Anti American Military, to stand up and say it.

It's just too bad we didn't have more nukes to drop on them.

"It's just too bad we didn't have more nukes to drop on them."

Why do you say that? I agree it was the right decision and they surrendered, would dropping another nuke and killing 10's of thousands of more innocent civilians including women and children be appealing to you?

Shawn - see my comment below

Are you saying you would not have surrendered THE SAME DAY OR THE NEXT after the first bomb?

Nagasaki was 100% their fault. 

SickofLibs

War is a hard decision and sometimes you have to get your hands dirty.....agreed 100 percent. I am saying that even if we had a third, I would not have agreed with using it. These bombs were not dropped on the Japanese military, they were on innocent women and children, we are not talking about collateral damage in the single digits or even hundreds, we are talking about melting 10s of thousands of peoples skin and I cannot imagine the quality of life a for a nuke survivor.

edit,

I would have used it, if the Japenese still refused to surrender, but it is not a decision to be taken lightly

Shawn

I would suggest to you that you are looking at this through your 38 year old eyes, with your experiences of "what war is" being Gulf War I & II....precision, laser guided weapons, stealth, "God-track" command and control, where almost everything is known at a macro level, satellite and drone intelligence, and an opponent who while tenacious and agressive, in no way has the combat capablities we do.

WWI was a slog in the the muddy trenches of Europe, with the first weapon of mass destruction, mustard gas.  It was a slaughter house.  WWII was a close run thing until 1945, with the US supplying two theatres and having to rebuild the Navy, allocating scarce resources.  Read about Dresden, a "conventional" bombing campaign.  Compare and contrast to dropping the Fatman and Little Boy on Japan.  

Finally, read up on the Japanese occupation of China during that time.  

Once you understand the historical perspective of WWII, you'll be able to see Truman's decision for what it actually was.  An earlier end to a war that was estimated to cause another million or so allied casualties if we'd had to have invaded Japan.

I'd suggest Pogue's 4 volume biography of George Catlett Marshall as a place to start.  Then read the biographies of all of the major commanders of WWII.  I warn you, it becomes addictive if you are at all interested in history.

I hope he fails, too.

 

 

Blonde

 Excellent.  I also love history as much as you do.

I'd also like to point out to all of the non-believers in this NB audience on other point.  Since WWII we haven't seen Germany or Japan on a war track or attacking other nations like they did in the latter 19th and 20th centuries.  Why?  Because they both got their asses royally handed to them and decided to stop their incessant b.s. and troublemaking. 

"Race doesn't matter..liberals are only one color - YELLOW"

Thanks, Ray

It's unfortunate that many younger people don't really know anything about WWII (or Vietnam for that matter, only that their hippy parents protested it, BAD!).

About ten years ago I got really into it, and read biographies of all of the WWII leaders and commanders.  Amazing and unusual men.  IMO, George Marshall should have been named Man of the Century.  He was the grand chess master, putting all of the right pieces in the right place, and soothing the raging egos and priorities.  

And your point is an excellent one, unfortunate that Colin Powell never learned it.  I lay Gulf War II firmly at his feet, we should have finished Sadam off the first time around.

I hope he fails, too.

 

 

Execellent point

Younger people know nothing about history except the revisionist crap that liberals put out. The point about Colin Powell is especially annoying to me. Powell is responsible for not finishing off Sadam in 1991 althoughsome of the blame can be laid at the feet of James Baker. I've never liked Colin Powell for that reason. He lost us our opportunity to take out Sadam the 1st time, he made the case to go in the 2nd time, and now to preserve his floundering legacy, he badmouths Bush and backtracks to gain respect from the Democrats that said he wasn't Black. 

Liberalism is a lie unto itself.

Blonde...

You're right about Marshall, and McCarthy, who insinuated he was a traitor, was dead wrong.  One more reason why the recent efforts at rehabilitating "Tailgunner Joe" are pathetically misguided.

Jer

IIRC, McCarthy had his knickers in a twist

over China.

The CBI theatre was at the tail end of everything, supply wise.  A pragmatic move on Marshall's part, which in 20/20 hindsight, McCarthy viewed as support of communism.  

Jer, if you've not read Pogue's biography....do it.  It's not cheap (about $200 for all 4 volumes)....but a worthy addition to the library. 

I hope he fails, too.

 

 

Not to speak for Shawn, but

Not to speak for Shawn, but I too believe grumpy's point requires clarification.  Is he lamenting the fact we didn't possess an infinite number of atomic bombs so that every square inch of Japan could have been nuclearly laminated, or that our only having two or three available warheads limited our strategic options?  I can't tell from his post.

Jer

Book suggestion for the

Book suggestion for the occupation of China, "The Rape of Nanking". 

Hey Blonde

I am not sure if there was any misunderstandings on my post. I was the 2nd person to post on this thread saying how right and necessary the bombings were.

The person that I was responding to said he wishes we had more nukes to bomb them. I do not know if he meant we had more in the hopper just in case, or we should have bombed them more to prove a point.

Paul Warfield Tibbets Jr is an American Hero and he did what he needed to do. He had no regrets and that is good that he could sleep at night, because I know if I had to the same thing for the greater good, I would have been wreck and have flashbacks of the carnage that I was responsible for.

Innocent Women and Children

Shawn, your comment "These bombs were not dropped on the Japanese military, they were dropped on innocent women and children...." is just another common misconception about our using atomic bombs to end the Pacific theater of WW2.  These cities were selected because of their military significance to the Japanese war effort.  The U.S. military did not take the position of, "Let's just nuke as many Japanese innocents as possible and maybe then they'll surrender."

The Japanese turned many of their industrial cities into massive military/industrial army towns.  We had no guarantee that Japan was going to surrender just because we dropped a new type of bomb on them.  We needed to eliminate their ability to kill soldiers in the United States Army.

A great book about the Japanese Army and how it dominated Japanese society from the mid 1800s through the end of WW2 is "Soldiers of the Sun".  It gave me a much greater understanding as to how and why Japan launched itself into the "no win" situation that ended up destroying their country as a result of World War Two.

"no win"

Right on, Kingfish. And some of the Japanese Naval commanders realized this as they were recovering their torpedo planes on Dec 7, 1941.

Only two forms of government? Find out why... http://www.flixxy.com/political-system.htm

Right, Kingfish and due to

the Japanese cult of personality - i.e. worship of the emporer - the entire country was committed to fight until the last man, woman and child were dead.

"How strangely will the Tools of a Tyrant pervert the Plain Meaning of Words!" ~Sam Adams

Your post is slightly

Your post is slightly misleading, Kingfish...

Hiroshima and Nagasaki could have been obliterated by conventional means, just as many other Japanese population centers--including those of military significance--had already been thoroughly torched via LeMay's incendiary bombing campaign.  Those two cities had been purposely spared in order that the full effects of the atomic strikes could be more accurately measured.

Jer

Not misleading in the slightest

Those two cities were military targets, not targets intended to kill innocent Japanese civilians.

And I'm not buying your argument that certain Japanese cities were "intentionally spared" in the long bombing camping to provide juicy targets of opportunity for possible atomic bombing at a later date.  Maybe you could provide some sort of link to the revisionist anti-nuke history that you got your inforamtion from.

I will grant you that some major military/industrial areas of Japan remained relatively unscathed by our bombing campaign at the end of WW2.  That was not however, caused by our "saving" certain cities to maximize the effect of nuclear bombs.  The bombing campaign against Japan was significantly different then the bombing campaign vs Germany, where distance to targets, (that eventually got reduced), was of much greater significance in the case of Japan.

Sorry, Kingfish... I'm

Sorry, Kingfish...

I'm not going to waste my time doing research for you regarding something that is common freakin' knowledge to anyone with the slightest familiarity with WWII.  You might just as well demand proof from me that planet earth isn't flat.

Jer

Easy way out

Of course I don't expect you to post links.  I gave you an out by asking for links and you took the "easy argument" by saying you weren't going to "do my legwork" instead of actually refuting anything I said.

I've studied WW2 history quite exentensively for the last 50 years.  I'm sure there are some crackpot theories out there that say we were saving Hiroshima and Nagasaki for a couple of years so we could nuke the crap out of them and kill a ton of innocent civilians.  This is the first time I have ever heard of your "common knowledge" proposition.  I guess I need a different reading list.

If you would be so kind as to provide me a ..........

Okay, Kingfish... Since

Okay, Kingfish...

Since you asked so nicely, I'll see what I can find.  But, do me a favor and review the relevant part of my post.  Don't read more into it than what I actually stated.  I'm certainly not claiming that those cities had remained unscathed throughout the course of the war because of their theoretical potential for atomic targeting.  I am saying that after the successful tests at Alma Gordo [sp?] and the nuclear potential became a reality, they were deliberately excluded from any conventional target list for the reason given.

Also, my original response to you was condescending and unfair.  I'm sorry.

Jer

No problem at all, Jer.

Thanks for clarifying the time lines involved.

Kingfish...[followup]

I've spent close to two hours researching and reading about 20 internet sources regarding this issue.  I did find several references supportive of my claim, but they were admittedly anecdotal--much less authoritative than I anticipated.

Indeed, one even pointed out that Hiroshima was the target of [very limited] conventional bombing shortly before the atomic strike.

I have an excellent book At Dawn We Slept which I read a few years ago, and will see if it addresses the issue (although it is primarily concerned with the Pearl Harbor attack).  The Military Channel is one of my favorite cable stations, and I do distinctly recall hearing this tidbit of information alluded to more than once on that medium. 

But overall, the evidence is not nearly as overwhelming nor irrefutable as I so snottishly suggested in my original post.  Again, my apologies.

Jer

Thanks again

Thanks Jer. 

Well Jer,

I thought I had heard how they choose the targets as well, wiki does comfirm it  But I also remeber weather ultimately decided who got Little boy.

 

My Gov. thinks I am dangerous, so be careful

"Television is a freak show" Bernie Goldberg

Thanks, general company...

I thought I had checked out all of the related wiki sites, but I evidently overlooked the obvious.

Thanks very much for the link.

Jer

Hi Jer,

Hey first I want to apologize about using the word 'trash' in yesterdays post. I saw Kenedy's/NWAHS name and used a word I regret... a few other people were caught up in the mix, as well. Nobody is trash, even misguided knuckle heads like NWAHS/Kenedy ??? name...

I just wanted to get that out of the way.

Paul

pahuber...(Paul)

Thanks.

I didn't think you were necessarily referring to me--directly or indirectly.  But the thread was very difficult to follow in places, and hard to tell to which poster[s] a comment was being directed.

In any event, your apology and clarification are very much appreciated.

Jer

Thank you Jer... I appreciate you accepting my apology.

I should not have used the word trash to ever describe people and out of anger I totally screwed up.

double post.

oops.

I seem to recall reading that the citizens of both cities...

...were warned in advance of the atomic bombings. 

"Shortly before the US dropped two atomic bombs on Japan, the United Stated showered the Japanese cities of Nagasaki, Hiroshima, and 33 other potential targets with over 5 million leaflets warning civilians of the impending attack."

That little tidbit of information never seems to come up in the average liberal discussion of whether Truman was the Devil Incarnate or just plain evil.

I'm pretty sure the civilians weren't actually prevented from leaving these cities, so perhaps they may (gasp) share some of the responsibility for the resulting carnage.

The Allies may or may not have wanted Hiroshima and Nagasaki untouched prior to the bombings. I don't believe, as some apparently do, this implies they were evil men; especially in light of the fact they did their best to warn the people in advance.

(Note: Wikipedia incorrectly claims that Hiroshima was not warned in advance of the bombing. This CIA website proves otherwise. The discrepancy is that Hiroshima was not 'warned' specifically about the atomic bomb.)

As GUN CONTROL has nothing to do with GUNS, so HEALTH CONTROL has nothing to do with HEALTH.

Tyranny is rarely felt save by those who OPPOSE it. (unknown)

ucw...

"Never heard of such a thing...EVER."

Well, now you have.

BTW...I can't get your first link to open.  The second one corroborates my statement.  Thanks.

Jer

Jer, 2 KOOK sites Pal

Both open for me.

As I said even Wikipedia, failed to have anything on it.

So where is an AP or Reuters Link????

After all you gave me crap for an, Ann Coulter article/ link.

State controlled health care ! music video.

ucw...

Both open?  Congratulations.  Do either reject my claim?  Have you found a single source which rejects my claim?  When and if you do, get back to me, pal.

In the meantime, you might be interested in my followup to Kingfish above.

Jer

The first link is Australian and makes unsourced assertions.

 The second link is also hardly a credible source.

It's the moonbat website of a fringe Communist/Maoist umbrella terrorist organization that is practically out of business in real life.

Compared to these, Wikipedia is the Gospel.

As GUN CONTROL has nothing to do with GUNS, so HEALTH CONTROL has nothing to do with HEALTH.

Tyranny is rarely felt save by those who OPPOSE it. (unknown)

Tailgunner...

Then you presumably read the wiki entry linked by general company which explicitly supported my initial statement about Hiroshima and Nagasaki being excluded from conventionlal targeting so potential atomic bomb damage could be accurately assessed.

Right?

Jer

I have no idea who was trying to use those as objective sources.

I would be greatly disappointed to find out it was you. 

As GUN CONTROL has nothing to do with GUNS, so HEALTH CONTROL has nothing to do with HEALTH.

Tyranny is rarely felt save by those who OPPOSE it. (unknown)

Tailgunner...

ucw supplied those links.  Nobody claimed they were "objective" sources.  ucw claimed wiki didn't even corroborate my assertions.  general company subsequently proved ucw wrong.

I stated that my own research turned up supporting evidence, but that it was not as authoritative as I had anticipated.  [At that point I had not yet seen even the wiki link.]  I noted however that I had personally heard the targeting details on the Military Channel.

That pretty much brings you up to date.

Jer

Jer, where, oh where is that


Citation needed

These cities were largely untouched during the nightly bombing raids
and the Army Air Force agreed to leave them off the target list so
accurate assessment of the weapon could be made.

Ain't one..Oh I could forward mine to them...sheesh

ucw...it's there, oh there...

linked by general company about 12 or 13 posts (as of now) up the thread.

Jer 

Jer, That was my point, EWWW a hand holding moment

☛ There, there... Jer it's RED now....feel better

These cities were largely untouched during the nightly bombing raids
and the Army Air Force agreed to leave them off the target list so
accurate assessment of the weapon could be made.

My point is that there is NO CITATION on this sentence!!

As in Citation needed

☛ Feel free to use my Kook links and update Wikipedia.

☛ Come on use the NYT surely they have something to support your claims.

☛ So far twister you have ZIP

 

“If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it.

⚡⚡..Joe G

State controlled health care ! music video.

ucw...

Sorry, misunderstood.  After you had twice insisted [erroneously] Wiki had nothing about it, I thought you were still seeking the link supplied by general company.

And if you stop backpedaling long enough to get your bearings, you'll note that at least some evidence has been adduced in support of the assertion, while you have produced absolutely ZIP to refute it.

Jer

edit.  BTW...there is indeed a citation at wiki regarding the targeting criteria, which also clearly supports my claim.  I suggest you read it.  So far your batting average on this issue is .000.

Jer ,Linkless once again. No surprise, missing the real point.

Jer logic: I found it in wikipedia, it must be true...

because I said  Try as I might I could not find any links on Wikipedia...

I never said  it is NOT in wiki.

Making a mountain out of a mole hill.

Try your  tired  strawman with  NL 207, Tailgunner.

 

Classic Strawman

Child: "Can we get a dog?"
Parent: "No."
Child: "It would protect us."
Parent: "Still, no."
Child: "Why do you want to leave us and our house unprotected?"

State controlled health care ! music video.

ucw...more distortions

ucw:  "Jer logic: I found it in wikipedia, it must be true..."

Interesting conclusion, ucw, since I have never said nor suggested such to be the case. 

 ucw:  "I never said  it is NOT in wiki."

Interesting statement, ucw, since several posts up the thread [Nov. 13, 2009 21:52 ET] you explicitly claimed...

"As I [ucw] said even Wikipedia, failed to have anything on it."

 

If you would like to debate in good faith, ucw, I would be more than happy to do so.  If you're just going to make stuff up, I'm not interested.

Jer

BTW...the citation is in the paragraph containing the very sentence you previously quoted.  I believe the footnote is #14

jer good faith!!, HA HA PAL a TOTAL crock from you

Further up is my other quote which you FAILED to Acknowedge.

Which I posted AGAIN ... crickets

You pull footnote #14 out of of thin air, which FAILS to support your claim..

" I believe the footnote is #14"

OOOhhhh Jer  the faithful Believes ..WRONG AGAIN

The target was unlikely to be attacked by August 1945. "Any small and
strictly military objective should be located in a much larger area
subject to blast damage in order to avoid undue risks of the weapon
being lost due to bad placing of the bomb."[14]

Below is what this discussion is ALL about.. which you once again strawman away from...Only you twister give a rats a$$ about my comment as if that is what this is about, grow up !

These cities were largely untouched during the nightly bombing raids
and the Army Air Force agreed to leave them off the target list so
accurate assessment of the weapon could be made.

As I said CITATION NEEDED, HELLO CITATION NEEDED

Now you are becoming an irritant, what exactly did I make up?

Interesting conclusion, ucw, since I have never said nor suggested such to be the case.  

Jer,  You are the person that started all of this, and got Stomped by several posters here... I myself  found your comment absurd.. So for fun I posted some KOOK links... which you loved ..

To devert attention from your blatant revisionism, you go after me for failing to find the same KOOK link in wikipedia..

Focus Jer...read the following LIE again...

These cities were largely untouched during the nightly bombing raids
and the Army Air Force agreed to leave them off the target list so
accurate assessment of the weapon could be made

The New York Times a paper you as a democrat love, fails to have a link to this BS ..

UCW

I see he's got you pulling your hair out, too.

We need to start a NewsBusters Hair Club For Men. We definitely lose it fast when we bust our butts hitting him with facts, constantly requesting links/sources, and tirelessly trying to apply logic. He gets us running around in circles.

 

Shy, not the first time, but hay, when he links, they are WEAK

If you have followed this massive thread... I sucked him in on his stewpid dreamland revisionism, banter, by posting some of the most KOOK filled sites THAT SUPPORTED HIS CLAIM... and here he is blabbering about me not finding the same KOOK links in wikipedia.. You know jer so well,  skip the issue at hand and delve into  democrat jerness.. total twisterland. can you say frivolous!

 

State controlled health care ! music video.

UCW

Oops, don't look now, but Headmaster Jer just whacked you with his yardstick for crossing the line of decent behavior.

 

Shy, yea been in that Jer code zone before

 
Linkless Jer, coasting on banter, that he has, in bucket loads.

State controlled health care ! music video.

Once again, ucw, you have

Once again, ucw, you have demonstrated your regrettable penchant for engaging in snark, insults, and mischaracterizations, as opposed to constructive debate or dialogue.  Fortunately there are many here--much more knowledgeable and capable than you--who prefer the latter.  So, I will debate them...you will be ignored.

Jer

Jer, wow I agree

Fortunately there are many here--much more knowledgeable and capable than you..

 
Jer, Just to let you in on a little secret , that's why i'm here..

The enjoyment of them whacking you in one fell swoop, is pleasure.

Oh, no NYT links,,,, CRICKETS

State controlled health care ! music video.

I have no idea who was trying to use those as objective sources.

I didn't even know until now you were making that point. 

I'm not saying you had no sources...just that those two had a serious credibility deficit.

I know you'd know better than to try and use them anyway.

Wouldn't make any difference to me anyway if it was true.

It wouldn't be any worse than Japanese or German medical experiments upon prisoners. (Did ya know the US kept the research for themselves and allegedly put it to use in developing exposure suits for US aircrew?)

As GUN CONTROL has nothing to do with GUNS, so HEALTH CONTROL has nothing to do with HEALTH.

Tyranny is rarely felt save by those who OPPOSE it. (unknown)

Tailgunner...I probably overcomplicated

I probably overcomplicated the issue from the outset.  But I still haven't seen anything in writing--other than NL's post--which debunks my basic assertion. 

ucw was attempting to deligitimize my claim by posting the "questionable" sources which supported my position.  I had not, and was not, relying on the reference material he linked [aside from the observation that it didn't contradict anything I had stated.]

Frankly, the "dispute" is not a major one in my view, and I never intended to make it such.  It appeared to me that Kingfish was "slightly in error" by implying that the atomic strikes were necessary to remove the military threats presented by Hiroshima and Nagasaki.  My point was that they could have been neutralized by conventional means but had been excluded from any conventional targeting in the closing stages of the war because of the desire to facilitate assessments of the destructive force of the atomic bombing.  I had heard this put forth most recently on a Military Channel presentation, and, as of now, I have no reason to doubt its authenticity--save for NL's dissenting opinion.

In any event and for the record, as I noted in another post, I support Truman's decision.*  So, I think much more is being made of this than necessary.

Jer

 

* If for no other reason than dropping "the bomb" may very well have saved my dad's life, since he would have participated in the invasion of Japan.  [And if he hadn't survived the war, I wouldn't be around to torment you guys.]  ;-)

You don't need to explain. I'm not offended by your point anyway

 I'm not trying to pretend that anyone in WWII acted with anything other than the greatest desire to exterminate their enemies by the most efficient, least costly in lives, and most decisive manner possible.

'Morality' was not in the Japanese, German, Russian or English languages during WWII.

I'm not saying we executed prisoners or raped and tortured on the scale of Nanking. But we firebombed huge areas of Japan and Germany, creating huge firestorms that literally melted people where they stood.

There's serious debate over whether some of those targets had even marginal military value.

That's what it took to beat the Axis. (Might be what we eventually need to beat the jihadists.)

Anyway, what difference does it make to liberals whether a hundred thousand enemy burn to death during an incendiary raid or an atomic bomb strike?

Why is their condemnation reserved only for those who participated in the two atomic strikes?

Maybe it's because those two bombs made America the unquestioned world superpower...at least until liberal idealists figured out how to get the bomb to Stalin and 'spread the wealth'.

Hm.

As GUN CONTROL has nothing to do with GUNS, so HEALTH CONTROL has nothing to do with HEALTH.

Tyranny is rarely felt save by those who OPPOSE it. (unknown)

Jer, Your 'common

Jer,

Your 'common knowledge' is fallacy. 

Having actually spoken with both Gen. LeMay and Gen. Sweeney about this very subject late in their lives, I will tell you why Hiroshima and Nagasaki weren't bombed earlier:  20th Airforce didn't have the resources to destroy these cities any sooner.  They weren't important enough to be further up the target list.  Rest assured that had the atomic bombs not been used on them, ending the war, they would have received the same treatment as Kobe, Nagoya, Tokyo, Yokohama, etc had received prior.  Nobody was intentionally "saving" either city for atomic attack.  They were selected for A-bomb because they were among the largest remaining Japanese cities that had not yet been reduced conventionally.

 

NL207

If you have read all of the relevant comments, you will note that I much earlier conceded the "common knowledge" remark by me was inappropriate and apologized [twice] to Kingfish for having made it.

Nevertheless, I know what I heard on the Military Channel presentations, and wiki as well as several sources of lesser authority have echoed precisely what I had stated.  So, if I am wrong, I am far from being alone in laboring under a misapprehension of fact.

Jer

Thanks for the Wiki Link

I checked out the Wiki Link, (I don't really consider what's written on Wiki much of a source unless the comments there are also sourced and the article linked is pretty good in that regard), and I think it backs up my original contention:  The targets of the atomic bomb attacks on Japan were military targets and not chosen solely to wipe out innocent Japanese civilians.

Of course it made military sense to drop the atomic bombs on intact targets.  It woudn't make much sense to use an atom bomb on a previously bombed out area.  And of course, it just makes common sense that once a target is selected for an atomic bomb attack, that target will be "saved" from conventional bomb attacks. 

Kingfish...

I agree in every respect with your analysis as set forth in your post above.  Without qualification.  Whew!

Jer

Perfectly described NL

This is the way I had understood it. It is a little ridiculous to think there would not of been some kind of criteria for "little boy". 

My Gov. thinks I am dangerous, so be careful

"Television is a freak show" Bernie Goldberg

King you got just got slimed

King you got just got slimed by Jer and his famous you know nothing about WWII.  Crap you might as well give up now.  ROFLMAO

I'll take a shower.....

........and maybe I'll find some of his "commen knowledge to everyone" if I look in the toilet.

Dan, you are now implying

Dan, you are now implying what you formerly explicitly accused me of, i.e. claiming you "know nothing about WWII".  If you can produce the post wherein I did so, I'll gladly tender you a huge, very sincere apology [and promise not to hide it from you].

But, my merely pointing out to you that our attacking Germany may have had something to do with Hitler's declaration of war against the United States doesn't count.

Jer

Give not that which is holy

Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls
before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again
and rend you.

ROFLMAO

Take your sermons elsewhere, Dan.

Take your sermons elsewhere, Dan.  Your preaching is neither welcome nor appropriate nor in compliance with NB guidelines.

Now, if you have evidence germane to the issue, please present it.  Otherwise, take a hike.

Jer

Jer

Your preaching is neither welcome nor appropriate nor in compliance with NB guidelines.

Hahaha. Preaching is not in compliance with NB guidelines??

Where do you come up with this stuff? You're a hoot.

Your phony and righteous indignation around here at the drop of a hat IS entertaining.

But it also gets old.

 

Shy... 1.  This is

Shy...

1.  This is odd.  Much--although not all--of the time you post your comments about me behind my back to some other poster.  It's juvenile, and it gets old.

2.  Dan has been directing his annoying sermonizing at me for well over a year.  It got old long ago.

3.  My indignation over it is not at all "phony".  It is very real.

4.  Where did I come up with this NB guideline "stuff" about preaching?  You need to pay attention, Shy.  Following is a direct quote by Lachlan Markay posted at a forum initiated by Queen Mum a while back:

 

"First let me introduce myself. I am a new employee of Dialog New Media and Newsbusters contributor. Matt Sheffield asked me to answer your question.

Yes, the policy is still in effect. The attacking of religious faiths and discussions about the merits or faults of various religions always result in divisive discussions, and we like to steer clear of those in our comments sections and our forums. We also prohibit proselytizing and religious preaching for the same reasons."  [My emphasis]

 

Any more questions?

Jer

Jer

Well, if nothing else -- well, besides loving your righteous indignation as your shield around here -- you're without a doubt anal retentive.

And you're applying this "guideline" to the single, small, and clearly humor-tinged (see "ROFLMAO" as it's closing) Dan post. Again, you love your righteous indignation... AND, apparently, your hyperbole (which are sort of hand in hand.)

And hmmm.... Dialog New Media. I think I know that site (wink to Mr. Sheffield :))

 

Shy... If it were an

Shy...

If it were an isolated incident, I could easily brush it aside.  But, as I said previously, it has been going on for way too long.  Dan knows it's inappropriate, but that doesn't deter him.  He enjoys abusing the rules, and he gets away with it because he's allowed to.

Jer

Shy, I could have said to

Shy, I could have said to Jer that he wouldn't understand or hear what I have to say about his comment on WWII.  But it carried more wieght with the verse I mentioned about throwing pearls to swine and got the desired result.  I could have explained in detail as I once tried to but Jer did not heed the pearls cast before him.

Dan... Why don't you stop

Dan...

Why don't you stop your whining and either produce the evidence supporting your repeated allegation, or be a real "Man" and admit you are wrong.

Jer

Hmm my reason is this, Give

Hmm my reason is this, Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.

Do you understand?  With you it is useless to explain and the point of negative return has been reached.  See even after I explain it you still dont understand and most likely will make another post for this.  The Jer MO.

 

Yep...I understand

Yep...I understand completely.  You are dead wrong.  You know you are dead wrong.  But instead of being man enough to admit it, you quote irrelevant scripture.

But I give you credit for this, infant:  You've been engaging in this crap for the better part of the past couple of years and getting away with it.  That's quite an accomplishment in and of itself.

Jer

DanMan2

You're definitely right about Jer. But aren't "they" all?

If we "keep at him" like this (you know, all the horrible torture, i.e., violating the NB terms & conditions with verse/scripture.... calling him "intellectually dishonest".... bringing his family members into deba..... oops, wait, sorry, it was Jer who did that....) he might just huff and puff his way out of here..... again. 

Woe is Jer. 

That's the Shy I've come to

That's the Shy I've come to know, if not love.  The one who is too cowardly to attack someone directly, and  has to constantly hide behind others.

And stick with that pathetic lie about your not injecting my family into a debate--with a backhanded slap.  Very impressive, Shy.  Just as is your lame propping up of your buddy Dan.  Why don't you help him hunt for his (nonexistent) evidence if he's "right about Jer" as you claim.

Jer 

Jer

 You are one reply away from everyone not knowing what the hell you are talking about!

"The bureaucracy is growing to meet the needs of the growing bureaucracy"

 

MM

Do you know what Shy and Dan are talking about?  If you do, then you know what I'm talking about.

Jer

Ok two replys. Nite!

"The bureaucracy is growing to meet the needs of the growing bureaucracy"

 

Jer

Your claim that I injected your family into a debate will need to be backed up with a link.

 

Shy... This has all been

Shy...

This has all been covered before, so you know very well about the posts in question.  I have always acknowledged it was a qualified attack, but it was offensive to me nevertheless. 

Instead of apologizing, you have tried to defend yourself with the lame excuse that you began the qualified smear by stating "with all due respect..."  Well, with all due respect, that explanation sucks.

You should also recall that the incident came on the heels of your sudden, inexplicable, and unprovoked ad hominems against me, repeatedly labeling me a fraud and intellectually dishonest.  Consequently, I was in no mood for even back door or hypothetical attacks on my dad. 

Jer

Jer

Jer, the guy who doesn't hesitate to lie and make crap up to score sympathy points. He continues to make stuff up, distort, grossly exaggerate, anything to paint himself as a victim.

Wonderful guy, isn't he?

 

Shy...

Go ahead and make a public fool of yourself, Shy.  You only dig your hole deeper.

What have I made up?  Examples, please.

Jer

Jer

 I have always acknowledged it was a qualified attack

As always, superb job, fancy wordsmith.

Now (and it's really not asking a lot) acknowledge -- for the record, and for all here to read and be witness to -- that it was you who injected your family into the debate, okay?

 

This might help clear things up.

 This is an excerpt from a transcript of a formerly 'Top Secret' meeting of the Los Alamos, NM 'Target Committee' on May 10-11, 1945:

"Dr. Stearns described the work he had done on target selection. He has surveyed possible targets possessing the following qualification: (1) they be important targets in a large urban area of more than three miles in diameter, (2) they be capable of being damaged effectively by a blast, and (3) they are unlikely to be attacked by next August."

"(2) Hiroshima - This is an important army depot and port of embarkation in the middle of an urban industrial area. It is a good radar target and it is such a size that a large part of the city could be extensively damaged..."

Nagasaki was not mentioned as a target in this source, and I was unable to find a source that specifically mentioned this city as a target, except a mention by the aircrew that it was their secondary target.

It should be noted that the target selection process emphasized that although untouched targets were ideal, each must have a high military value.

None was chosen for population alone. In fact, Nagasaki had been partly evacuated four days earlier as a result of a relatively minor Allied air raid which targeted docks and industries.

Also remember that leaflets had been dropped by the millions on Hiroshima, Nagasaki and 33 other Japanese cities warning of imminent attacks...hardly the act of bloodthirsty mass murderers.

As GUN CONTROL has nothing to do with GUNS, so HEALTH CONTROL has nothing to do with HEALTH.

Tyranny is rarely felt save by those who OPPOSE it. (unknown)

→ Forget it TG

It's just plain silly to be expected to explain to an agressor why we fought back.

It's not as though we came after them on a whim.

And Akihito should be kissing our butts that we didn't put his no-good daddy down like so many other war criminals.

LYDSEXICS UNTIE!

I'm by no means

I'm by no means an expert on the bombing campaigns against Japan, but I'm pretty sure carpet bombing and incendiary bombs killed the most people and broke the most stuff. What got Hirohito's attention, I think, was he realized there was not a bunker deep enough for him to hide in for protection against the atom bomb.The United States had a short cut to Hirohito, and he damn well knew it.

Sort of a case of realizing "the emperor has no clothes" :)

I said in another post that

I said in another post that Truman sent a message to the Japanese government (Hirohito) that after Nagasaki, Tokyo was next. And you're right, this really caused him to scramble to tell his military to stop fighting and they finally listened to him.

Others here may have better information, but I seem to remember reading that Hirohito really never wanted to attack the US in the first place, and that his military basically told him to go suck a lemon. They ran the war, called the shots, and Hirohito couldn't do much about it. The Japanese war machine made a big deal out of "pleasing the emperor", but it was just a tactic to keep motivating their soldiers.

No citizen's right to life, liberty, pursuit of happiness, or property is safe as long as Obama is President of the United States.

Shawn---

Are you the person in that famous photo who was sticking the flower into the barrel of the National Guard soldiers rifle?

Your question is a good example of the pacifist drool "compassion" put forth from behind the wall of safety that our military provides.

You have that right, but that does'nt make what you ask, right. IMO

MD

 

mathewwdean

I'm sorry I really don't see what your problem is with my post. I was the second person to post on this thread saying the bombings were necessary, I was only trying to find out what a poster meant by wanting to have more bombs to bomb them.

Obama has a lot in common with the Jap's handling of bombings

Let's also not forget the surrender did not come until nine days after the first bomb and six days after the SECOND bomb.

I guess they were just weighing all their options, holding meetings and getting additional opinions... sound familiar? 

What finally turned the

What finally turned the tables was that Truman sent the message to the Japanese government that we had a THIRD bomb (we didn't) and were about to drop it on Tokyo. It was a  bluff but it worked.

No citizen's right to life, liberty, pursuit of happiness, or property is safe as long as Obama is President of the United States.

Unfortunately

 there is an alarmingly high percentage of young Americans that believe that the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbor as retaliation for us dropping the nukes on them.  Whether it's because they were taught this or because it wasn't taught at all and they just figured that we are the bad guys I don't know.

 

Gun Control - The theory that a woman found dead in an alley, raped and strangled with her own pantyhose, is somehow morally superior to a woman explaining to police how her attacker got that fatal bullet wound.

there is an alarmingly high

there is an alarmingly high percentage of young Americans that believe that the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbor as retaliation for us dropping the nukes on them.

Seriously?  I cant believe that.

Uh yeah, I'd like to see a

Uh yeah, I'd like to see a statistic on that one.

The reporter from an arm of the Republican Party

I assume if the story does get widely reported, we will see the White House Communications Director explaining that the reporter represents an arm of the Republican Party.

Seriously, the sad thing is, Japan desperately tries to rewrite its WW II history to indicate, among other lies, that the USA had no international legality to use atomic weapons.  They cite Atomic weapons non-use vs. Germany as an example (ignoring the fact that they weren't available prior to V-E Day).  This reporter was bravely trying to allow his countrymen to hear the USA's side of the story directly from the horse's mouth ... only to have our fearless leader refused to provide it to him.

He so laser-focused on getting Univeral Health Care Insurance, he is going to flat-out refuse to address anything else.  God help us if terrorists attacked us on our own soil ... oh wait, we were in TX, weren't we?  I'm sorry, I shouldn't have said that - since all the facts haven't come out yet.

Nope

 "This reporter was bravely trying to allow his countrymen to hear the USA's side of the story directly from the horse's mouth ... only to have our fearless leader refused to provide it to him."

Wrong.

This reporter was trying to put the Apologist in Chief in a position to take the bait and run with an historical apology to the Japanese people.  Reporters in Japan are notoriously anti-American and would love to see America grovel.  I guess jet-lag got the best of Bambi and he forgot his usual apologies.

"Race doesn't matter..liberals are only one color - YELLOW"

Use of atomic weapons

I'm not going to try to defend the decision of using the A bombs on Japan.  It's a different world then than it is now and I don't mean with the passage of time, but how we look at things in the world.

It was a dangerous time then  and it's a dangerous time now.

People will make decisions that history will be harsh judges of no matter how you look at it now or then.

In the case of Truman, he made a tactical decision based on his military commanders' advice.  It's a decision that he had to take with him to his grave.  If there were something better to use, I'm sure he would have used it. 

As it is, an atom bomb(nuke, etc) is a horrible weapon.  It's one of many horrible weapons that exist today.  It's something that a madman would have no problem using, especially the Islamic jihadists since they worship death.  And therein lies the rub, we have several countries that want that weapon and would have no problem using.(North Korea and Iran)  India and Pakistan have nuclear weapons but to their leaders, it's just a bomb with a bigger bang.

I do not see Barry ever using a nuke on anyone.  Russia would not use them on the US, no matter how spineless some of its leaders are or have been.  Russia and the US are no threats to each other.

My biggest fear is that the Islamic soldiers are ready and willing to use any kind of nuke weapon on the US and its interests and this could happen at any time.   That's what scares the hell out of me.

 -Jon

Barry could have turned

Barry could have turned this into a softball lob question:

"If it was up to me, I would have surrendered after your defensive strike at the United States agressor fleet stationed in Pearl Harbor.  Following Japan's annexation of Hawaii, it only makes sense that I would now be your nation's Prime Minister!  I'll get together with Nancy and Harry and set this all straight by making it retroactive.  Sorry for the inconvenience."

The correct answer: "Yes, I

The correct answer: "Yes, I believe it was the correct course of action and, given similar circumstances, I would make the same decision to use nuclear weapons."

 LOTUS' answer: "Shout out to homie!".

A pathetic excuse for a man - he has the spine of a jellyfish, the intelligence of a guido, and the morality of a whore.

Shocked!

You, Sir, owe an apology to prostitutes everywhere.

'Specially MINE.

Yo. 

As GUN CONTROL has nothing to do with GUNS, so HEALTH CONTROL has nothing to do with HEALTH.

Tyranny is rarely felt save by those who OPPOSE it. (unknown)

HAHA

Pretty good one except whores are born capitalists and Obama certainly can't be accused of being that.

"Race doesn't matter..liberals are only one color - YELLOW"

  Your tagline left out

 

Your tagline left out nerf balls.

http://gjresult.com

 

Homina, homina, homina

The translator was probably thinking WTF is this guy saying?

He's asked "what color is the sky", and he replies "Four."

Perhaps but...

 Ever seen the movie Lost in Translation? Well, it's pretty much like in Japan. 

"Race doesn't matter..liberals are only one color - YELLOW"

Ray:

http://engrish.com/

prepare to laugh your *ss off 

'Somebody set us up the.....

 ...bomb.'

As GUN CONTROL has nothing to do with GUNS, so HEALTH CONTROL has nothing to do with HEALTH.

Tyranny is rarely felt save by those who OPPOSE it. (unknown)

What ticks me off is there

What ticks me off is there are millions of knuckleheads driving around right now who feel the very same way Obama feels. America hating Americans who still choose to live here instead of getting the hell out.

This knucklehead can apologize all he wants.  It just makes him look chickensh!t.  It does not change the fact that for most of us, we're not going to take any crap off of anybody.  Obama is fast becoming Mr Irrelevant with our country moving forward without his dumb ass.  We don't need him.  He needs us.

Si Vis Pacem, Para Bellum

Vain One

Some how,some where or self taught the Vain One has decided that America is a bad place. He believes that the only way to fix it is to shape it and our history in his beliefs. Keep on talking! Slowly but surely even the bandwagon hoppers are going to figure out what you are. It ain't good.

The best answer would have

The best answer would have been:

"From the quality and progress of those two cities during the intervening years, it would have been a good idea to bomb Detroit as well.

Two beautiful ALIVE and THRIVING cities in Japan compared to what has been done to the people of Detroit?

There is no comparison between japanese 'can-do' attitude and democrat bungling in Americas inner cities."

 Let the media do with the statement whatever the media feels like doing with it.

 

http://gjresult.com

 

Indeed

That would have been a lovely response.
I can't imagine the choking and sputtering of the liberal media.
What a sight that would have been!
Sam: "I hurt somebody's feelings once"

Willis...

As you know, I disagree with you much of the time, but credit where credit is due...you make a good point here.

Jer

Lately I've been afraid to click Read more

and again I'm not let down. Just when I think the POTUS can't get any lower.....shazam. Beck is right, he just hates this country. Yesterday Beck had one of his greatest programs yet, we gotta start calling a spade a spade. WE WON WW2, and for that matter WW1. GOD, I hope EVERYONE starts waking up and sees what's happening.

  And the democrat party

 

And the democrat party LOST Korea and Vietnam!

With millions of Freedom Loving PEOPLE dying because of democrat failures.

http://gjresult.com

 

your right willis

and now they (the dems) are gonna lose Afganistan

My GOD, when will people wake up...

the Democrats also started

the Democrats also started and lost the Civil War.  They started the war of 1812 but by the luck of luck they didn't get smashed in that one.

And don't forget the Mexican War

And don't forget the Mexican War of 1846,  Started by Polk, a Democrat.  Lincoln, a US congressman, was very vocal in his criticism, while our troops were in the field.  Guess that made Abe an anti-military, America-hating traitor.

Jer

Not Anti-American

.....just anti South.

Don't get me started on Lincoln. :)

Lincoln is the reason I was banned from FreeRepublic.

Lincoln's role in the Civil War is the third rail of the Internet.

Don't go there. 

As GUN CONTROL has nothing to do with GUNS, so HEALTH CONTROL has nothing to do with HEALTH.

Tyranny is rarely felt save by those who OPPOSE it. (unknown)

Banned?  How come?  Did

Banned?  How come?  Did you complain too vigorously about his trampling of civil liberties?

Jer

That's IT. You're GONE.

See how easy that was? :D

Imagine a Palestinian walking into a bar mitzvah and questioning the divinity of the Torah and you'll understand the true depths of my heresy. 

As GUN CONTROL has nothing to do with GUNS, so HEALTH CONTROL has nothing to do with HEALTH.

Tyranny is rarely felt save by those who OPPOSE it. (unknown)

ROFLMAO ... You just ban

ROFLMAO ... You just ban Jer??

Yes, child...Tailgunner

Yes, child...Tailgunner just ban me.  I be here no longer.  Run along now.

Jer

I guess your word is as good

I guess your word is as good as Duh Vain One's.

Obama should have talked about his dear friend

...Rev Wright.

He could have said something like, "Well, as you all know, I belong to a great church on Chicago's South Side. And every Sunday my pastor would damn America for different reasons. My favotite sermons were the Hiroshima and Nagasaki ones which I spoke about in me best selling Book 'Dreams of my Father'".

Take a Cue From South Park Big-O

The President should have just taken a cue from South Park and blamed whales and dolphins! That would have been better than what he said.

But a real President would have said, "two words: Pearl Harbor. Should we continue this dance?"

 

Mark. Even John Burns (the WWII doc) on Hiroshima &

Mark. Documentary film maker John Burns, who is way on the left, came to a powerful realization, on the subject of Hiroshima & Nagasaki, during the making of his recent widely acclaimed WWII documentary. I'd like to find the actual transcript here - but it was so important (for a small person like Obama) that it stuck in my head.

In response to a question on how he had come to decide just how he would portray the atomic bombing to end the war of the two Japanese cities, he explained that when he had begun this years long film process, he assumed that he would show it in the more accustomed horrific - how could we have - terms. But, as the years went by he lived the war thru the eyes of the men and women who had lived and died in Pearl Harbor and the war in the Pacific; at Midway and the horrors of the hell which was played out to free the chain of islands being held by the imperialist Japanese Empire. He came to understand that the decisions that were made in that period of time in history were made during that period of time, because they were living the hell then. Winning and ending the war was the only option.

Burns said that there was no way that over 50 years later he could, or should, pass judgement on that which he came to understand almost everyone agreed with, based on what was before them then in that moment.

I commend him for that.

If only Obama had the brilliance which our media is so determined to convince us that he has, perhaps he might use some of it to learn, and to experience, a bit more of history than that taught by Noam Chomsky and Howard Zinn.

(;~/ gary

What a disingenuous whanker---

The man was asked a simple question and didn't or couldn't answer it. He's a coward and it showed...

Hasan isn't a terrorist and there wasn't justification for bombing those cities, yeah, right...

You could see him struggling to worm his way out of answering that simple question. Obama is the proverbial "verbal octopus" and it's beginning to show, just listen to how long and disjointed the convoluted answer was, along with his inability to remember the question, he's a fraud...

Way to be, Obama!  nucing

Way to be, Obama!  nucing two civillian cities is just about the darkest chapter in American history.

 

Thank the heavenly father for Obama

'Doubling down on stupid is

'Doubling down on stupid is not a particularly good idea'~Breitbart

Military cities?

What two Japanese military cities would you have rather seen nuced

 

Hi. My name is John Q. Public, but some just call me racist.

Ohh, missed the point,

Ohh, missed the point, there, my conservative friend.  The idea, revolutionary as it might sound, is perhaps we shouldn't have dropped nuclear bombs on anybody.

 

Thank the heavenly father for Obama

It worked out just fine.

I own a car produced by a Japanese company. Perhaps you should work on getting over the past. 

 

Hi. My name is John Q. Public, but some just call me racist.

critical thinks we should've sent obama to Japan in WWII and

solved the crisis.

pahuber, had we done that, we would be posting in Japanese

-Dave 

Our elected representatives have failed us.  

So desu, dakedo, san nen nihongo o benkyo shimashita. Okinawa

de sundeimashita.... saiko da!

Not nuking? God, CT you are very very ignorant historically

as you are politically. Is every possible decision you make come out of that PC manifesto you carry with you?

Ever been to Pearl Harbor? Okinawa?

Ever study island hopping and how it costs thousands of our troops lives?

Ever study about the effects of firebombing Tokyo and many other cities with dumb bombs?

Ever study the Bushido code and what it means to actually surrender? Especially, as a soldier? (for help with this one see how they treated our POWs for surrendering).

Do you know how many civilians, enemies and American forces and not to mention foreign allies died in Okinawa alone?

I digress... I doubt you will have one intelligent thing to say about any of this so why add more proof.

Geepers beave, CT did not even address my questions...

big surprise.

'Kumbaya' is not in the Japanese language, pal.

 Nor, apparently, is it found in the Koran.

Ever think that the Japanese shouldn't have dropped bombs on US?

(Why is it the enemy never seems to share any responsibility, in liberals' eyes, for a war?)

Figure this.

You're the (son, mother, wife or daughter) of a US serviceman who's been fighting in Europe for three years and is finally victorious.

You're expecting him to come home safe and sound.

But Truman, in order to placate the Empire of Japan and liberal anti-American handwringers, like you, for the next fifty years, is going to sacrifice your (father, son, or husband), and another five to seven hundred thousand like him, on some Japanese home island beachhead instead of ending the war decisively and saving those half-million or more American lives.

What kind of insanity would that be?

Thank the heavenly father for the 22nd Amendment.

As GUN CONTROL has nothing to do with GUNS, so HEALTH CONTROL has nothing to do with HEALTH.

Tyranny is rarely felt save by those who OPPOSE it. (unknown)

It's amazing...Obama...

never seems to miss an opportunity (especially when he's overseas) to either apologize for, trash, or in this case, not stand up and support and defend this country.

What a colossal, humiliating embarrassment he continues to be.  

"The problem is not that people are taxed too little...the problem is that government spends too much." ~President Ronald Reagan

I'll go out on a limb and say

He was probably thinking the people who made the decision to drop the bombs "acted stupidly", but knew what would be waiting for him at home if he said it.

Looks like he dropped the bomb on that response. Wah wah waaaaaahh...

The Look

Check out the look Obama gave to the Japanese Prime Minister when he was ducking the question.  Was he waiting for the PM to blast the reporter (like in the US) for asking it again or was he looking at him to see if he knew he was ducking it?

Re More Bombs

Re the availability of more bombs after Hiroshima and Nagasaki (August 6 & 9):

"The U.S. expected to have another atomic bomb ready for use in the
third week of August, with three more in September and a further three
in October."

Surce: http://en.wikipedia.org

I do hate to use Wikipedia as a source, but I have seen this information in many other places and it is well-sourced in this case. Japan could have been in for far greater destruction had they held out, and the yields of these bombs could have been increased as we learned more about how to build them.

Then this joker didn't have a clue what he was talking about:

November 13, 2009 - 18:34 ET by R D Helm

At the time, we only had enough money for two bombs. Wasting one nuking
a bunch of trees and seagulls would have been an unacceptable waste,
and what is more, it wouldn't have swayed the Japanese in the least.

Regats, as I said, we only had two bombs at the time

I did not include the test bomb that had been previously detonated at Alamogordo, New Mexico, as that one was no-longer available for reasons that should be obvious even to you, troll. 

-Dave

Our elected representatives have failed us.  

Two-fer

Obama gave his critics a two-fer on this one. He proved again that when he is asked to respond extemporaneously without a canned answer and a teleprompter he just can't handle it. Period. When he runs out of talking points he is lost. He begins to look very uncomfortable, doing the ah, ahs and his eyes start looking around as if he expects a competent answer to pop up like magic. The other thing is his apparent ignorance of history. Oh, I'm sure he knows the basics, but our President needs to have an understanding of history. Our friends in Germany and Japan, I'm sure, find him shallow to say the least. After failing to grasp the significance of the Berlin Wall falling and the connection it had to 80 years of world history by choosing not to attend ceremonies there, he goes to Japan and displays his ignorance of or indifference to a still important subject to our ally. I would imagine Japan will forever want some sort of apology from us, but a frank, honest discussion of our position would be received better than Obama's dismal performance. At least he didn't bow and apologize, yet.

It's kind of hard to have a

It's kind of hard to have a grasp of American history when your formative years are spent outside the United States.  LOTUS has no affinity nor does he care about this country and its exceptionalism.

The Obama Administration: THE most fiscally irresponsible Administration EVER

It's official: The POTUS,

It's official:

The POTUS, Barack Hussein Obama (mmm-mmm-mmm), is a wussy.

Typical of the liberal male who is taught to embrace their feelings and essentially act like women, by women who browbeat them into abdicating their masculinity, Obama wusses out.

The Japanese know we bombed them.  The world knows we bombed them.  And we all know why we bombed them.  Deal with it, be a man, fess up to it, and let the Japanese know what is done is done and it was a heckuva long time ago and that is that.

Only the liberal feels guilt over something that happened long before the POTUS was even born.

Weak.  So, so weak.  This is what happens when we have a POTUS who isn't a Veteran.

Citizen Commentators Unite!

http://www.politicalintegritynow.com/

http://www.donaldborschjr.blogspot.com/

Bombing Hiroshima (and Nagasaki)

As a first nuclear response, it probably WAS a huge, criminal mistake.

We should have first nuked a sparsely populated area, demonstrating the awesome power of the A bomb, giving the Japanese the opportunity to save face and surrender. If they didn't, THEN bomb ONE large city, and escalate only if necessary.

Instead we killed and maimed hundreds of thousands of innocent Japanese citizens.

This is what OUR president should have said, but at least he didn't blurt out that he thought what we did was right. He was put on the spot and gave an uncomfortable but diplomatic non-response.

 ( I shudder to think what G. W. Bush might have said).

 

As a first nuclear

As a first nuclear response, it probably WAS a huge, criminal mistake.

And how was it criminal?  It was not a mistake by any means as it took teh second one to make them surrender.  If innocent people were killed then it was on teh head of teh governmnet who put them in danger in teh first place by starting and extending teh war.  Are you saying that Japan was crininaly negligent in this instance?

 

Fuzzy thinking Dan, much

Fuzzy thinking Dan, much like your writing.

The bombings were only three days apart. (H: 8/6/45, N: 8/9/45). Hirohito didn't surrender until a week after the second bomb, (8/15) so it didn't necessarily take a second bombing to make Japan surrender. The second bombing was unnecessary and, probably, so was the first.

When Teddy Roosevelt said "speak softly and carry a big stick", the idea was that you don't actually need to use the stick. Just make the enemy clearly aware that you have one.

I stand by my opinion that the nuclear devastation we heaped upon Japanese cities was unnecessary and criminal. Mass murder.

 

 

Mass Murder?

Was the conventional bombing against Germany and Japan also mass murder?  Do you think the allies could have won WW2 without this "mass murder"?  And just how many people need to die before murder gets classified as "mass"?

I don't have a simple

I don't have a simple answer, but killing and maiming hundreds of thousand civilians crossed the line. How were they a threat to us?

Blow up their arms factories, destroy their warships, tanks, and planes, kill their soldiers who are trying to kill ours. Direct the aggression to those who want to and can harm us. Yes, it's war, it's ugly, and innocent people will die, but make every effort to keep civilian losses at a minimum.

The A-bombs we dropped were a shameful episode by any definition.

 

 

Would Tens-of-Thousands have been O.K.?

That's a retorical question, of course.  But you can extrapolate it down to the "Killing one innocent person is wrong" argument.

The United States and their allies did what they needed to do to win the war, save the world from tyrany, and save as many lives as possible.  And they had a priority, save lives of allies first, save lives of the enemy second.

Dropping the atomic bombs saved lives, in a pervase way.  Not dropping them would have been shameful.

Read my original post.

Read my original post.

I didn't say we should not have dropped the bombs. I said we should have first dropped one in a rural area as a show of strength, threatening to bomb a large city if they did not surrender.

As it turned out, bombing Hiroshima and Nagasaki was NOT necessary to win the war. Not my words. Theirs:

"The 1946 Strategic Bombing Survey determined it had been unnecessary to the winning of the war. We know that Japan, demoralized from having dozens of cities obliterated in
fire bombings, was extending peace feelers.

“The Japanese were ready to surrender,” said Dwight Eisenhower, who as a general during that war believed the atom bomb was “completely unnecessary.” Admiral William D. Leahy, General Douglas MacArthur, and many other high officials at the time agreed. ...

Some have tried to rewrite history and have said that to win the war without
nuclear weapons, the U.S. would have had to invade and suffer
intolerable losses, that the atomic bomb “saved a million lives.” But
there is no reason to doubt that Japan’s cause was lost by
mid-1945—even without an invasion."

http://www.consortiumnews.com/2007/111507a.html

 

 

 

Again, regats, NO. We only had three and one was tested already

We could not spare the time nor bombs for such childish warfare. Country idea would not have impressed them like the military targets of Mitsubishi shipyards... in fact, there is a guy in Japan that was trying to convince an unbeliever in Japan about the second bomb (because he was there in Hiroshima)...while doing so his boss was not impressed when the second one in Nagasaki went off.

Thank God for the A-Bombs.

PS: The book flies in the face of acclaimed historians and eyewitness within our military forces, as well as Japans.

The book you keep taking snippets from is suspect...

After reading all these

After reading all these posts all I can say is I've read accounts of men who fought the Japanese.  Hand to hand.  For days on one stinking peice of volcanic rock after another.  They adhered to a culture of death, similar to Al Quida.  It's terrible that civilians had to die, but it's terrible that boys 18 (and sometimes younger) were subjected to torture by Japanese when captured.  What the Japanese did to China, the women, girls, and civilians there was unspeakable.  The Japanese are trying to rewrite their part in WWII and make us villians for dropping the bombs.

Speilberg is making another series similar to "Band of Brothers" which will tell the story of the Pacific war.  When this is out let's talk about dropping the bombs again.

Hey Rad, yes, they were just about like al qaida in their

treatment... There are those with the victim mentality concerning history over in Japan that want us to apologize for the bombing... their historical facts are not very good when it comes to WWII. It was a year or two ago that a defense minister had to resign for suggesting that the US was correct in dropping the bombs...so the truth suffers there, as well as here.

I did not know about the new movie coming out. Looking forward to seeing it! : ) Cheers!

Regats...."The 1946

Regats...."The 1946 Strategic Bombing Survey determined it had been unnecessary to the winning of the war. We know that Japan, demoralized from having dozens of cities obliterated infire bombings, was extending peace feelers."

Not entirely correct.

This is what the report you cite concludes:

"The USSBS reports do not state or even suggest that the use of the atomic bomb against Japan was unwise. On the contrary, a careful analysis of the USSBS findings supports the wisdom of using the bombs. For a full discussion, see How the United States Strategic Bombing Survey reports endorsed the use of the atomic bombs."

http://www.anesi.com/ussbs01.htm

No citizen's right to life, liberty, pursuit of happiness, or property is safe as long as Obama is President of the United States.

Allow me to extend my compliments.

 Once again a liberal has been nailed to the wall as a dishonest, disingenuous, distorting, lying hack.

Thank you for digging into that pile of crap. I couldn't have held my nose long enough to do it.

As GUN CONTROL has nothing to do with GUNS, so HEALTH CONTROL has nothing to do with HEALTH.

Tyranny is rarely felt save by those who OPPOSE it. (unknown)

As I stated earlier, in a lower thread

I followed your link and don't put much credence in Anthony Gregory, a research analyst at The Independent Institute.

He seems to be pretty much the lightweight.  Has he published anything besides a couple of essays on the interweb?  I tried Amazon and didn't find anything.

You da king!

Well done : )

You are an idiot.  The

You are an idiot.  The Japanese did not care for their people like teh USA did.  Japan was still pretty much under a fuedal type system and peasants were a dime a dozen.  So a few peasants killed in the namne of the big picture then it was good.  Heck, modern day Japan still has a lot of that mentality.

My brother lives there and has for 25 years, he is assimilated in trhe culture complete with a Japanese wife and two boys who speak little english.  He tells me the people there have very different ideas of what happened and how it happend, so much so he relatd how he and his wife watched Pearl Harbor and his wife was very ambivilant about the idea.

He also wrote a book, a first person account of a woman who survived Nagasaki.  The people did not know or care what was happening, it was teh aristocracy who was in control and they did not care if a few peasants or warriors were killed.

This tool's source is a lunatic leftwing propaganda website.

Look at some of the other insightful, rational and objective examples of investigative journalism this website proudly displays.

This is about as mindless as taking the word of a Taliban leader over the President of the United States of America.

As GUN CONTROL has nothing to do with GUNS, so HEALTH CONTROL has nothing to do with HEALTH.

Tyranny is rarely felt save by those who OPPOSE it. (unknown)

Good evening Regats

Don't ever take off those rose colored glasses. Reality will blind you.

Jesus Loves You so much He died for you

I knew JC would pop up

I knew JC would pop up sooner or later.

Sick puppy. 

So regats, you are an anti-Christian bigot, as well?

Explain your comment about cocodrie being a sick puppy.

If you cannot then let me be the first to call you a bigot.

Lay off Regats

Thats his tagline,  and he has a personal relationship with God, no need for name calling here.

Ah, I know who you are now.

You're an alias.

For bass-ackwards shawn.

Nice, troll boy. 

You people are disgusting creatures.   Truly.

I hope he fails, too.

 

 

When I was young (ooh, hurts

When I was young (ooh, hurts to say that) I made a comment about how horrible Sherman's march in the south was to an uncle who had served in WWII.  He looked at me in disbelief and said "It was war.  War is about killing people and breaking things".  I've never forgotten that, because it's true.  And yes, civilians will die.  Fact of war.  When you try to protect them, the enemy uses them to prevent you from targeting factories, etc.

Apparently, it's only ok if hundreds and thousands die on both

sides... then it's kosher.

Maybe he is pissed that we did not get the opportunity to allow thousands more of our men to die...

Too bad the Japs didn't use rubber bullets when they hit Pearl

And we should have dropped the only two devices we had into the Sea of Japan and said "You see the size of that splash?" 

No, that wouldn't have been humane either - think of all the sea kittens that would have perished.

But look on the bright side - there's always a chance that Holder may prosecute Truman posthumously for war crimes.

Please take a remedial

Please take a remedial reading course.

Hey SoL, I think this guy fantasizes about that.

Historical ignorance on display.

Regats, I am sorry you learned "history" in a government school

So, just exactly how many pages did your high school history book devote to WWII, one?

At the time, we only had enough money for two bombs. Wasting one nuking a bunch of trees and seagulls would have been an unacceptable waste, and what is more, it wouldn't have swayed the Japanese in the least.

The Japanese people of the time were far different than the Japanese of today. Theirs was a feudal society, one in which militarism ran strong, as they were brought up this way from a very early age.

 
There was nothing more humiliating to the Japanese, both military and civilian, than the unthinkable (to them) act of surrendering.  

Throughout the entire war, even after the terrible firebomb raids (which, BTW, killed far more Japanese civilians than the two atomic bombs even came close to killing) the morale of the Japanese civilians never broke. Not even close.

It didn't break even after the 2nd atomic bomb was dropped on Nagasaki, either, as it took the direct intervention of Hirohito himself, who went against both the Japanese High Command, and the will of the Japanese people, to finally put an end to it.

The allied casualty estimates for Operation Coronet and Olympic started at one million and went up from there. Many of the experts were predicting that it would take between three and five years to finally beat the Japanese, as the entire society, men, women and children, were being trained to fight the invaders.

It would have made the fight on Iwo Jima, the first of the Japanese home islands to be taken, look like a cake walk in comparison. 

Ultimate victory would have most likely involved blockading the Japanese home islands and literally starving the nation to near-death.

I wonder how many Japanese people would have eventually died from that?

The Japanese people got off lucky. 

-Dave 

Our elected representatives have failed us.  

So Dave, you know more than

So Dave, you know more than these folks:

"The 1946 Strategic Bombing Survey
determined it had been unnecessary to the winning of the war. We know
that Japan, demoralized from having dozens of cities obliterated in
fire bombings, was extending peace feelers.

“The Japanese were ready to surrender,” said Dwight Eisenhower, who as
a general during that war believed the atom bomb was “completely
unnecessary.” Admiral William D. Leahy, General Douglas MacArthur, and
many other high officials at the time agreed."

ref:

http://www.consortiumnews.com/2007/111507a.html

 

 

 

Anthony Gregory: A research analyst at The Independent Institute

I followed your link.  This Anthony Gregory guy looks like a lightweight with regards to WW2 History.  Makes you wonder what they were teaching at Berkley about WW2 in 2003, when he graduated.

And I would say that Dave knows more then Anthony.

The book is complete crap. You need to listen to the military

testimonials that were given and the civilians being ready to die in defense of the homeland.

The ONLY reason Japan surrendered was because we allowed them to keep their emperor which was not on the table initially and we agreed to it because we knew that Russia would have invaded further into the mainland if we did not end the war fast. Even then the Japanese balked, but did the right thing hesitantly.

Your book and its testimonies are suspect.

PS I study this as a hobby having lived in Okinawa and seen that they suffered greatly in a conventional war. You need to get over the A bomb and focus on the evil that is obama.

Obama's just fine. The

Obama's just fine.

The greatest evil is right wing ignorance and greed.

OMG, that is so funny! Shoulda had a spew alert!!!

You made my night : )

خال - Sleeper Accounts

Oh fantastic.

Another Troll "sleeper account" has been activated. 

 


خال

Yep,  I wonder what banned

Yep,  I wonder what banned troll this one is?  Anyone?  I think this shows how mentally unstable the troll population is.  They cannot argue with logic so they resort to cavorting in the gutter.

The Obama Administration: THE most fiscally irresponsible Administration EVER

Regrets

Obama is just fine if you're fine with a clueless, weak Commander in Chief, and you're fine with socialism and prefer this over free-market capitalism.

You're fine with both of them, apparently. That's too bad. Not just for you, but for all of us, as the more of you there are in this country (assuming you're a US citizen) the more in danger we all are.

 

I'm fine with a balance of

I'm fine with a balance of socialism and capitalism. Neither one, alone, will make for a sound, smooth functioning society. Unbridled capitalist greed drove the Wall Street fiasco, lining the pockets of bankers and hedge fund mangers with billions of dollars while countless people lost their homes and jobs.

I am not advocating Communism, the purest form of socialism - no private property or stock market, according to Marx. Nor a pure capitalist state, where the free market is run by unregulated, greedy corporations, their only objective short term profits and happy stockholders. The wealthy become obscenely so and the middle class lose their jobs to cheap (and profitable) offshore labor. The divide between rich and poor has never been greater in the history of this country, and it is getting worse.

The US has the costliest and least efficient health care system of any civilized nation because drug companies and insurance companies have been allowed to become huge profit makers at the expense of America's citizens. A public plan will give big pharma and insurance the competition they sorely need to bring costs into line - and they are lobbying vigorously to avoid that. And you right wing suckers are buying their greedy message hook, line and sinker.

Support Obama - we need reform NOW !!

 

 

خال - regats

How does that Kool-Aid taste ? 

 


خال

By your logic..

The Govenment should compete in every area of the market to bring costs down. I mean why can't I buy goverment toilet paper or government gas to go in my government car (ok bad example). But you see what we are saying where does it stop? 

"The bureaucracy is growing to meet the needs of the growing bureaucracy"

 

MightyMouth, you can actually buy government toilet paper

LOL-You'll find it at Home Depot under the sign that says sand paper.  :-O 

-Dave

Our elected representatives have failed us.  

You are so full of it....Hello Glibbsy!

Enjoy your stay here, be sure to have some chocolate.

 

I hope he fails, too.

 

 

"Wall Street Fiasco"

Regats - The combination of socialism and capitalism that you so cherish was exactly what caused the financial crisis of 2008.  Your lack of understanding of what happened only a year ago is truly abysmal.

Socialism and Capitalism balance?

You may see a teeter-totter, but I see a glass of water and oil. The two will never stay mixed.

Not "big corporations", which, by the way, are made up of people exercising their free will,  but "big government" is the source of the ills you describe. Show me a "greedy corporation" who intimidates you with fines or imprisonment if you don't buy their "product".

I don't particularly like either. One I can ignore, and even speak out and organize for it's demise. The other is a threat that has a history of violence and destruction of those who oppose it.

It's rather simple. We don't need or even want you in our lives or wallets or schools or jobs or etc ..... we are independent. You, on the other hand, require us to serve the "greater good" as you see it.

Try as you might, the two will never stay in suspension. Be a man. Choose a side and get to work. My bet is your greedy government will lose.

 

 

 

Hi. My name is John Q. Public, but some just call me racist.

Straight from the mouth of Karl Marx.

'The US has the costliest and least efficient health care system of any civilized nation because drug companies and insurance companies have been allowed to become huge profit makers at the expense of America's citizens.'

And Canada's citizens...and British citizens...and Indian citizens...and German citizens...etc.

Do you know something the rest of the world doesn't?  

BTW, pal, you might be surprised to find out that one of those 'happy stockholders' might be you. (Or are you one of the only 25 people left in this country who doesn't have some form of 401k?)

Tell me something, pal.

Medicare keeps its costs low because it doesn't pay its bills.

Medicare doesn't reimburse providers for the full cost of treatment.

Providers are therefore forced to 'pad' private insurance to keep from going broke. (That's why an aspirin costs $5 on your bill and your meals cost $50.)

Obamacare is going to reimburse providers using the same pay scheme as Medicare.

That means, eventually, as private healthcare policyholders are increasingly being dumped on Obamacare, that hospitals will no longer be able to make up these massive shortfalls and still provide the same standard of care.

In short, Obamacare will inevitably run out of my money.

What will Obama do then? He promised high standards of care with no rationing. But with no more private insurance companies to loot, something's got to 'give'.

Answer that for us, pal, if you can.

As GUN CONTROL has nothing to do with GUNS, so HEALTH CONTROL has nothing to do with HEALTH.

Tyranny is rarely felt save by those who OPPOSE it. (unknown)

stageR on out the door goofball

As if there is no evil left wing ignorance and greed! 

The right wing is not trying to make the US into Europe.

"The bureaucracy is growing to meet the needs of the growing bureaucracy"

 

Europe?

More like  Zimbabwe

 

My Gov. thinks I am dangerous, so be careful

"Television is a freak show" Bernie Goldberg

You are right of course.

They are trying for Europe. But as with every liberal endeavour there are "unintended consequences".

"The bureaucracy is growing to meet the needs of the growing bureaucracy"

 

Actually, Regats, how do you explain liberal greed?

After all, there are far more millionaire dems in congress than millionaire republicans, and there is no end to the greed the dems have for money earned by others. 

 
Hell, there is apparently no end to the dems greed for money that hasn't even been earned yet, or even printed yet, or have you not been paying attention for the last 10+ months?  

What say you? 

-Dave

Our elected representatives have failed us.  

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