Would Good Morning America invite as a guest a liberal who'd never voted for a Democrat but who after a year spent trying to live like Jesus decided to vote for McCain? I doubt it. But when an evangelical who'd never voted for a Democrat spent such a year and decided to vote for Obama, GMA devoted a segment to his story
Rev. Ed Dobson is the evangelical in question, and let me begin by saying that he seems a sincere and thoughtful person. A graduate of Bob Jones University and a member of the Moral Majority's founding board, Dobson was the pastor of Calvary Church in Grand Rapids, MI until retiring in 2005 to battle Lou Gehrig's disease. He is currently a member of the administration of Cornerstone University. Dobson explained that he was inspired by A. J. Jacobs's book, The Year of Living Biblically, in which the author describes his experiences spending a year trying to obey all biblical rules.
GMA weekend co-anchor Bill Weir interviewed Dobson, and the discussion eventually turned to politics.
View video here.
BILL WEIR: You voted for Barack Obama.
DOBSON: I did indeed.
WEIR: Why?
DOBSON: Well, I decided since I read through the Gospels at that point over 30 times, I wanted to know who represented the fundamental teachings of Jesus. And I felt that he, more than any other candidate, represented the teachings of Jesus. So I voted for him: my first vote for a Democrat.
WEIR: Which brought some scorn I imagine from your community, your Christian community there, which led you to have to forgive them! [Dobson had earlier mentioned that learning to forgive those that sin against you was one of the most difficult things he had to do in living like Jesus.]
DOBSON: Yeah, yeah, well, I'm not saying everybody should vote [for Obama] nor am I saying that Jesus would vote for Mr. Obama. I did because I felt overall he was closer to Jesus' teachings.
—Mark Finkelstein is a NewsBusters contributing editor and host of Right Angle. Contact him at mark@gunhill.net.
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Comments Policy
I'm sure Jesus bummed
January 4, 2009 - 13:27 ET by RR GOPI'm sure Jesus bummed around and smoked some primo hash during those 18 missing years, and also like The One we don't really know what the heck he was doing. Also, the Romans and Sanhedrin didn't seem to like Jesus' 'community organizing' tactics much, either.
Good point there, Doh-bson.
One of the 24% who thinks George W. Bush was a great President. One of the 89% who wants to bring back the stock and pillory.
Which Teaching Would That Be???
January 4, 2009 - 13:27 ET by flyingmonkeyHe must be talking about Jesus' penchant for hanging around with sinners. I surely don't believe Jesus was pro choice.
I'm with you on that one...
January 4, 2009 - 13:49 ET by 5kidsnadogCan't imagine that Jesus would have approved of abortion, let alone denied fully born human beings compassionate care. The problem is, once you've made Jello shots out of the kool-aid, you just can't hear anything anymore.
Is he basing this on the idea that Obama is against coal, oil, gas, or any other civilized means of providing humans comfort? I hope this guy understands that just because Jesus didn't USE electricity or cars didn't mean that he would be against them.
Or maybe he's basing it on the idea that Obama is against the war? Because, again, I'm pretty sure that if Jesus could speak up on this, he'd probably take the attitude that we broke Iraq and need to fix it -- lest we allow more people (but maybe not Americans) to die as a result.
I'm absolutely GOBSMACKED (isn't that a fun word) when I hear Christians advocate for Obama. There's no defending it.
"Can't imagine that Jesus
January 4, 2009 - 21:00 ET by lotr"Can't imagine that Jesus would have approved of abortion"
The Author of Life does not approve of abortion. Period.
But the angel said to her, "Do not be afraid, Mary, you have found favor with God. You will conceive and give birth to a son, and you are to call him Jesus. He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High. The Lord God will give him the throne of his father David, and he will reign over the house of Jacob forever; his kingdom will never end." Luke 1:30-33
And one by one dropped the revellers in the blood-bedewed halls of their revel, and died each in the despairing posture of his fall. -- Edgar Allan Poe
Dobson is uninformed.
January 4, 2009 - 13:37 ET by Mike Bratton"Overall," Obama is a pseudo-Christian cult-of-personality leader, someone who is as far removed from Jesus' teachings as it is possible to be in this life.
Next time, Mr. Dobson, you might want to read the Gospels for comprehension. As a professing Christian, you should be aware that "living like Jesus" has absolutely nothing with your diet and such, and everything to do with your relationship with Him.
--Mike
www.thebrattonreport...
big gov obama is about as
January 4, 2009 - 20:47 ET by TruthMongerbig gov obama is about as ceasar as it gets
the ignorance of our voting population truly staggers the imagination
can't wait for 4 f'ing years of this ultra-asinine media sh*t
btw it's us Christians who need to forgive dobson - not the other way around - nice cheap shot as always gma dicks
I'd advise
January 4, 2009 - 14:05 ET by StarAZInstead of sharing with us his new penchant for politics, I'd advise Rev Dobson to be spending his time thanking the heavens he is sitting up in a studio. My friend with ALS is not nearly that functional.
He won't be sitting up in a
January 4, 2009 - 14:16 ET by motherbeltHe won't be sitting up in a studio for much longer.
Oh, right..I forgot that
January 4, 2009 - 14:11 ET by motherbeltOh, right..I forgot that Jesus said that if you saw someone without a coat, you should find a man with two coats and take one away from him to give to the other guy.
the Lord loves a cheerful
January 4, 2009 - 14:27 ET by botgthe Lord loves a cheerful taker
“The way to stop discrimination on the basis of race is to stop discriminating on the basis of race.” -- Chief Justice John Roberts
And let's not forget his
January 4, 2009 - 15:40 ET by Republic1And let's not forget his teachings on forcing citizens to pay for other folk's rent, healthcare, retirement, childcare, prescription drugs, out of wedlock childbirth costs, mortgage assistance, and the mass bureaucracy that administers all this. Dobson is an example of why so many sects of liberal Christianity are dying on the vine in this country. They're trying to politicize the teachings of Christ. They don't seem to realize they're just useful idiots for the Socialists, who despise religion and would probably outlaw worship if they could.
"I will expel the Jews and Christians from the Arabian Peninsula." -Muhammad
Don't get it
January 4, 2009 - 14:22 ET by MichelleC"WEIR: Which brought some scorn I imagine from your community, your
Christian community there, which led you to have to forgive them!"
First of all, I do not feel scorn for this man and to assume that members of the Christian community would automatically feel scorn is a representation of how out of touch liberals are.
And yes, we do forgive...we even forgive stupidity. But the missing point here is that we allow people to have their own views and don't expect everyone to blindly follow one viewpoint. Mr. Weir does not understand Christians and showed it here.
As for Mr. Dobson, well...to each his own. I don't agree with his assertions, but he has the right to believe whatever he wants about Obama. He is probably a victim of not having enough information. After all, he probably just watched the mainstream media for election coverage and doesn't know all about Obama's true ideology.
Republicans believe every day is the 4th of July. Democrats believe every day is April 15th ~ Ronald Reagan
As I recall ...
January 4, 2009 - 14:45 ET by KC MulvilleJesus never voted.
good one:) never ran for
January 4, 2009 - 20:51 ET by TruthMongergood one:)
never ran for office either
stayed out of politics alltogether
omg he IS just like Obama isn't he, they're like twins man
Planned Parenthood gave
January 4, 2009 - 14:52 ET by rbosquePlanned Parenthood gave Obama a high rating.
Somehow I don't think Jesus is for Partial-Birth abortion, letting kids die who survived abortions, dismembering and injecting babies with saline solution then throwing their little corpses into trash cans.
I missed that part
January 4, 2009 - 14:59 ET by neripowellFunny, I must have missed that part of the Sermon on the Mount where Jesus said, "Blessed are they who inject their unborn children with saline and then suck out the chopped up body parts with a vacuum hose."
Color me embarrassed!
Fr. Philip, OP
http://www.hancaquam...
A graduate of Bob Jones
January 4, 2009 - 15:49 ET by Dan The Man 2A graduate of Bob Jones University and a member of the Moral Majority's founding board, Dobson
He must have hada conversion on the Road to DCmascus. And it proves the one thing Jesus said that even the elect may be fooled by Satan. I think this man is sick and the sickness is affecting him. He forgets that Satan is the master of scripture.
There is no way in Hell ... wait Obama is from the depths of Hell.
Nuke em til they glow then shoot em in the dark.
That's right cause I
January 4, 2009 - 16:32 ET by eaglewingz08That's right cause I specifically recall reading in the Gospels where Jesus said, if thy woman shall have an abortion and it be unsuccessful then you shall take the living breathing child of such unsuccessful abortion to a dirty linen closet and abandon it there until the baby dies.
Luke 18:8.
If I may
January 4, 2009 - 18:03 ET by Mike BrattonYou quoted Jesus as saying "that even the elect may be fooled by Satan." Such a quote is incorrect, thus impossible.
The quote, from Mark 13:22, states the following: "For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect."
Those of us who are Christians are, through the indwelling of God the Holy Spirit, protected from such intellectual and spiritual seduction.
And to be fair, Obama is not "from the depths of Hell." Hell is a destination for those spiritual beings who have fought against God, and for those humans who have rejected the invitation of salvation through Jesus Christ. While it is a birthplace for no one, it will be the final residence for too many.
--Mike
www.thebrattonreport...
You quoted Jesus as saying
January 4, 2009 - 18:14 ET by Dan The Man 2You quoted Jesus as saying "that even the elect may be fooled by Satan." Such a quote is incorrect, thus impossible.
It was not a quote but a paraphrase and it was pretty much teh intent of what Jesus said. Who but Satan or his minions would want to decieve the elect? This man is acting, on his credentials, as a false prophet a man of God who speaks for God and therefore "For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs
and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect." is in effect.
Nuke em til they glow then shoot em in the dark.
This quote works well in
January 4, 2009 - 18:33 ET by celatorThis quote works well in this case, also:
1 Peter 5:8 "Be self-controlled and alert, Your enemy the devil prowls
around like a roaring lion looking for someone to devour.".
Not to quibble...
January 4, 2009 - 19:12 ET by Mike Bratton...but when a paraphrase is incorrect, it's incorrect.
Those of us who are Christians cannot, by God's good graces, be spiritually deceived. Those who are not believers can be. The wants and desires of the deceivers are immaterial, as God is sovereign.
Is Dobson deceived, or merely victimized by his own good intentions? Ultimately, he is the only person who can conclusively answer that question.
You are, however, correct in your assessment of Obama as falling into the Biblical category of "false prophet." More than a few people have looked at Obama and said, "Lo, here is Christ; or, lo, he is there". To date, the Lightworker has done nothing to reject those appellations.
--Mike
www.thebrattonreport...
The elect can fall away
January 4, 2009 - 19:44 ET by suburbaniteJust because someone is under grace doesn't mean that he/she cannot fall from grace. Satan and his minions were once angles and under grace but fell from grace because of sin. David, Solomon, and Sampson all fell from grace.
Jesus warned the church of Thyatira to not be deceived by the teachings of Jezebel, the false prophetess, and repent. Resisting Satan and his deceptions is a form of overcoming and blessed are the overcomers.
"Fight the good fight every moment
It's your only way" Triumph
suburbanite
January 4, 2009 - 20:00 ET by botgas i recall "He who began the work will complete it" now if you began it then by all means finish. Fortunately for me i didn't start it cause you know i mess up too much.
“The way to stop discrimination on the basis of race is to stop discriminating on the basis of race.” -- Chief Justice John Roberts
One small point here,
January 4, 2009 - 20:11 ET by RESTLESS 1Suburbanite. You cannont equate man with satan and his minions. They were fallen angels, but did not fall from Grace, (capitalization makes the difference). Man is God's most beloved and most cherished creation; the angels, not so much.
"This
liberal would be all about socialize -- uh, uh, would be about
basically taking over and the government running all of your companies."-Maxine Waters 2008
To put a fine point on it
January 4, 2009 - 20:28 ET by suburbaniteAdam and every sinner before the coming of Christ Jesus fell from grace; there was no Grace until the Advent.
"Fight the good fight every moment
It's your only way" Triumph
You're still confusing grace and Grace.
January 4, 2009 - 20:32 ET by RESTLESS 1They are not the same thing. The angels, (satan included), never had Grace.
"This
liberal would be all about socialize -- uh, uh, would be about
basically taking over and the government running all of your companies."-Maxine Waters 2008
I never said that the angels were under Grace
January 4, 2009 - 20:48 ET by suburbaniteAngels are blessed creations of God and have their own covenant relationship with Him. Satan and his minions fell from God's grace (ie, favor) when they laid with the daughters of men - defiling themselves - and were cast out of the third Heven never to return.
And don't forget, Jesus was the Angel of the Lord.
"Fight the good fight every moment
It's your only way" Triumph
oh no sub, the angels
January 4, 2009 - 20:55 ET by botgoh no sub,
the angels were cast out before ever seeing any women.
Jesus is indeed the Messenger of the LORD though not of angelic breed lest He also is a lion
“The way to stop discrimination on the basis of race is to stop discriminating on the basis of race.” -- Chief Justice John Roberts
Jesus
January 4, 2009 - 20:56 ET by RESTLESS 1was made Man, and thus given Grace.
"This
liberal would be all about socialize -- uh, uh, would be about
basically taking over and the government running all of your companies."-Maxine Waters 2008
You folks' remarks bring up an important question.
January 4, 2009 - 21:00 ET by Mike BrattonWho do you say that Jesus is?
--Mike
www.thebrattonreport...
Jesus is the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit
January 4, 2009 - 21:09 ET by RESTLESS 1As are God and the Holy Spirit.
"This
liberal would be all about socialize -- uh, uh, would be about
basically taking over and the government running all of your companies."-Maxine Waters 2008
That response is inaccurate.
January 4, 2009 - 21:36 ET by Mike BrattonIf Jesus is the Father and the Son, was He praying to Himself in Gethsemane? Should He have prayed "Nevertheless, not what I will, but what I will"?
If Jesus is the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, why did He tell His followers, "And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you." Should Jesus have said, "I will pray to Me, and I will give you Me"?
Your answer does not agree with the Bible.
--Mike
www.thebrattonreport.com
Jesus
January 4, 2009 - 22:24 ET by choselife3xThe Word made flesh.
In order to be pro-choice, one must first be born. Ah, the irony.
Cl3x
January 4, 2009 - 22:30 ET by botgnow what would Thomas say?
“The way to stop discrimination on the basis of race is to stop discriminating on the basis of race.” -- Chief Justice John Roberts
So Mike,
January 4, 2009 - 22:45 ET by RESTLESS 1You're denying the Divine Deity of Jesus? It's either that, or you are a polytheist, assuming you are a Christian.
In Exodus, God commands that we worship only one God, yet in Matthew 4:10:
Jesus said to him, “Away from me, Satan! For it is written: ‘Worship the Lord your God, and serve him only.’”
And in Hewbrews 1:6 we are told And again, when God brings his firstborn into the world, he says, “Let all God’s angels worship him.”
Now, since the Holy Spirit is Jesus as he ascended to Heaven, then the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit are one and the same. Different forms of the same God.
"This
liberal would be all about socialize -- uh, uh, would be about
basically taking over and the government running all of your companies."-Maxine Waters 2008
Restless
January 4, 2009 - 22:54 ET by botgas was codified at the Councel of Nicea "being of one substance with The Father, God of God, Light of Light, very God of very God" not one person with The Father.
one God three Persons else He is a schitzo.
“The way to stop discrimination on the basis of race is to stop discriminating on the basis of race.” -- Chief Justice John Roberts
One God, three forms
January 4, 2009 - 23:09 ET by RESTLESS 1No psychological problems need exist.
It's very simple. Either Jesus is divine, or we are breaking the First Commandment.
"This
liberal would be all about socialize -- uh, uh, would be about
basically taking over and the government running all of your companies."-Maxine Waters 2008
exactly Restless, God of
January 4, 2009 - 23:17 ET by botgexactly Restless, God of God---One substance, three persons with distinct positions (My Father is greater than I, I will send Another Comforter and He will tell you all things)
btw: the bishop of Rome had no representative at the counsel of Nicea.
“The way to stop discrimination on the basis of race is to stop discriminating on the basis of race.” -- Chief Justice John Roberts
Bruce
January 4, 2009 - 23:57 ET by RESTLESS 1Did not the Council of Nicea vote to recognize the full Deity of Christ?
"This
liberal would be all about socialize -- uh, uh, would be about
basically taking over and the government running all of your companies."-Maxine Waters 2008
why of course being of one
January 5, 2009 - 00:12 ET by botgwhy of course being of one substance necessitates divinity
“The way to stop discrimination on the basis of race is to stop discriminating on the basis of race.” -- Chief Justice John Roberts
Bruce,
January 5, 2009 - 08:41 ET by RESTLESS 1Then I fail to see where we disagree. See my post to Mike below for clarification.
"This liberal would be all about socialize -- uh, uh, would be about basically taking over and the government running all of your companies."-Maxine Waters 2008
.........
January 4, 2009 - 23:06 ET by choselife3xI'm just going to say one thing, then I'm outta here.
They are distinct from each other. For instance, nowhere in the Bible does it say to pray TO Jesus. Nor do we worship the Holy Spirit.
We pray to God the Father, the Son intercedes for us, and the Holy Spirit is a sort of spiritual conduit between us and God. (best analogy I can think of at the moment)
Night all.
In order to be pro-choice, one must first be born. Ah, the irony.
night-e-o cl3x “The way
January 4, 2009 - 23:18 ET by botgnight-e-o cl3x
“The way to stop discrimination on the basis of race is to stop discriminating on the basis of race.” -- Chief Justice John Roberts
Choselife
January 4, 2009 - 23:21 ET by RESTLESS 1The Holy Spirit is a "sort of spiritual conduit between us and God"?
Hmm, I thought that the Holy Spirit was Jesus' form after Resurrection.
Simple question. Is Jesus Divine or not?
From Ezekiel 34:
"20 " 'Therefore this is what the Sovereign LORD says to them: See, I myself will judge between the fat sheep and the lean sheep. 21 Because you shove with flank and shoulder, butting all the weak sheep with your horns until you have driven them away, 22 I will save my flock, and they will no longer be plundered. I will judge between one sheep and another. 23 I will place over them one shepherd, my servant David, and he will tend them; he will tend them and be their shepherd. 24 I the LORD will be their God, and my servant David will be prince among them. I the LORD have spoken.
25
" 'I will make a covenant of peace with them and rid the land of wild
beasts so that they may live in the desert and sleep in the forests in
safety. 26 I will bless them and the places surrounding my hill. [a] I will send down showers in season; there will be showers of blessing. 27
The trees of the field will yield their fruit and the ground will yield
its crops; the people will be secure in their land. They will know that
I am the LORD, when I break the bars of their yoke and rescue them from
the hands of those who enslaved them. 28
They will no longer be plundered by the nations, nor will wild animals
devour them. They will live in safety, and no one will make them
afraid. 29 I will provide
for them a land renowned for its crops, and they will no longer be
victims of famine in the land or bear the scorn of the nations. 30
Then they will know that I, the LORD their God, am with them and that
they, the house of Israel, are my people, declares the Sovereign LORD. 31 You my sheep, the sheep of my pasture, are people, and I am your God, declares the Sovereign LORD.' "
"This
liberal would be all about socialize -- uh, uh, would be about
basically taking over and the government running all of your companies."-Maxine Waters 2008
Yeah, I gotta answer that
January 4, 2009 - 23:42 ET by choselife3xOf course Jesus is divine, no one even suggested he wasn't.
Jesus doesn't have another form. He still inhabits the physical body he was born into this world in. Only his is now incorruptible, like the First Adam's was originally. Jesus and the Holy Spirit are distinct from each other.
In order to be pro-choice, one must first be born. Ah, the irony.
Distinct, yet the same.
January 4, 2009 - 23:53 ET by RESTLESS 1God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit are three forms of the same God. How else would Jesus be divine? We are commanded to worship Jesus. Would that not be breaking the First Commandment if He weren't God as well?
The apostle Paul tells us in Collossians 2:9 that "In Christ, all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form".
I don't know how much I will continue to comment on this, so I hope the new year sees you well Choselife. See you on the threads.
"This
liberal would be all about socialize -- uh, uh, would be about
basically taking over and the government running all of your companies."-Maxine Waters 2008
By distinct
January 5, 2009 - 00:05 ET by choselife3xI didn't mean they were three separate Gods. I meant that their roles are distinctly separate and not interchangeable. That's all.
Best wishes to you and yours, Restless.
In order to be pro-choice, one must first be born. Ah, the irony.
I encourage you to read for comprehension, Restless.
January 5, 2009 - 00:09 ET by Mike BrattonAnd no, that's not being snarky. Sometimes folks get in such a hurry to make their next point that they miss the simple stuff, like this: Jesus Christ is the Son of God and God the Son.
Now, to address and correct some of your misstatements:
First off, in Exodus, God does not command that we "worship only one God." God commands that we worship Him. The Bible defines God as one God, in three Persons. Your misstatement suggests folks ought to pick which Person of the Trinity to worship and ignore the others.
And you don't seem really well-equipped to handle Scriptures mentioned previously, such as in John 14, where Jesus, God the Son, makes specific reference to both God the Father and God the Holy Spirit.
Next, you reference Hebrews 1:6, but as is typical when such modalistic positions as yours are advocated, you missed the part where the Father refers to the Son as God. The passage in context:
Hebrews 1
1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high:
4 Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.
5 For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?
6 And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.
7 And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire.
8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.
Hmm... God the Father referring to Jesus Christ as God. Imagine that!
Seriously, though, modalism is heresy, plain and simple. It says God is something He says He isn't. Modalism can't even get past Genesis 1, where God says to let "us" in the plural "create" in the singular. It cannot escape the Hebrew Shema from Deuteronomy, that declares "Jehovah our Elohim is one Jehovah," that the Lord (plural) our God (singular) is one (singular) Lord (plural).
Modalism worships a schizophrenic deity, and is not a part of Christianity.
--Mike
www.thebrattonreport...
Mike,
January 5, 2009 - 00:29 ET by RESTLESS 1"Your misstatement suggests folks ought to pick which Person of the Trinity to worship and ignore the others."
That is exactly the oppossite of what I am saying. When you worship one, you worship all three, when you worship all three, you are worshipping the one God.
"...Son of God and God the Son."
Nope, didn't miss it. That is what I am saying. Jesus is the Son of God, and God the Son. Both of one substance.
Now, the Father refers to the Son as God in Hebrews. What am I missing here? Your post is the second here that has referenced schizophrenia. That is just insane. (Sorry, bad pun.) That God has presented himself in three distinct forms doesn't imply psychological problems. He uses the three forms for His purposes. I'm not saying that one day, God thinks he is Jim, the next, he's Marty, and the third, he is Jeff. It obviously does not work like that. He is God, no matter what form he is in.
"This
liberal would be all about socialize -- uh, uh, would be about
basically taking over and the government running all of your companies."-Maxine Waters 2008
Bottom line.
January 5, 2009 - 00:53 ET by Mike BrattonYou advocate modalism, do you not?
Modalism is anti-Christian.
You've been shown the Scriptures that disprove it.
--Mike
www.thebrattonreport...
Modalism " Modalism is
January 5, 2009 - 01:17 ET by RESTLESS 1Modalism
" Modalism is probably the most common theological error concerning the nature of God.
It is a denial of the Trinity which states that God is a single person who, throughout biblical history, has
revealed Himself in three modes, or forms. Thus, God is a single person who first manifested himself in the mode of the
Father in Old Testament times. At the incarnation, the mode was the Son. After Jesus'
ascension, the mode is the Holy Spirit. These modes are consecutive
and never simultaneous. In other words, the Father, the Son, and the Holy
Spirit never all exist at the same time, only one after another. Modalism denies the distinctiveness of the three
persons in the Trinity even though it retains the divinity of Christ. Present day groups that hold to forms of this error are the
United Pentecostal and United Apostolic Churches. They deny the Trinity, teach that the name
of God is Jesus, and require baptism for salvation. These modalist
churches often accuse Trinitarians of teaching three gods. This is
not what the Trinity is. The correct teaching of the Trinity is one
God in three eternal coexistent persons: The Father, the Son,
and the Holy Spirit."
If this is your definition of "modalism", then no, this is not what I advocate. I have repeatedly posted that all three are distinct forms of God, used for distinct purposes. All three equal and coexistent. I don't know how to make it any plainer.
Edit: looking back at my first post on this, I think I see the confusion. I was not saying that Jesus is God, or whatever. I was saying, (poorly, I see now), that the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are all forms of the one God. More accurately, God is the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. I probably could have saved us both some greif if I had re-read that post sooner.
"This
liberal would be all about socialize -- uh, uh, would be about
basically taking over and the government running all of your companies."-Maxine Waters 2008
Ah!
January 5, 2009 - 16:17 ET by Mike BrattonI appreciate the clarification. Much obliged.
Modalism is a nasty thing; I'm sure you understand my disdain for it.
--Mike
www.thebrattonreport...
The Trinity is three
January 4, 2009 - 22:53 ET by celatorThe Trinity is three separate and distinct Persons, not some sort of heavenly conflation blended into one three headed God. That was a heresy settled centuries ago, for goodness sakes.
Three forms of the same God
January 4, 2009 - 23:05 ET by RESTLESS 1Not some mythological character from the Tales of Hercules, as you make it seem.
And heresy according to whom. I do not take my orders from the Vatican.
"This
liberal would be all about socialize -- uh, uh, would be about
basically taking over and the government running all of your companies."-Maxine Waters 2008
The Son of the living God
January 4, 2009 - 21:14 ET by suburbaniteMat 16:16 (JKV): And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
"Fight the good fight every moment
It's your only way" Triumph
Anything else?
January 4, 2009 - 21:37 ET by Mike BrattonYour response was incomplete.
--Mike
www.thebrattonreport...
Here's a few more
January 4, 2009 - 22:21 ET by suburbaniteHe is the only begotten Son of God.
He was the Word; He was with God; He was God.
He is the Way, the Truth, and the Life.
He is the eternal sacrifice for the forgiveness of our sins.
He is the Lamb of God.
He is the Angel of the Lord.
He is the Son of David.
He is the Son of God.
He is the Son of Man.
He is the Alpha and Omega; the Beginning and the End.
He is the King of kings and the Lord of lords.
He is the King of Israel.
He is Emmanuel.
He is my Lord and Saviour.
...
"Fight the good fight every moment
It's your only way" Triumph
Marvelous.
January 5, 2009 - 00:13 ET by Mike BrattonThen your relationship with Him cannot be severed. You should take that to heart.
--Mike
www.thebrattonreport...
Dear Suburbanite
January 5, 2009 - 12:44 ET by 1611LilacLadyNot to stir up trouble suburbanite, but please show me where, anywhere, in the Word of God that says Jesus was the Angel of the Lord??
I've been saved for 28 years and have never ever seen that in the Bible. I use only the King James . . . so please go through that Bible word for word until you find Biblical proof for your statement. Maybe I missed something?
John 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.
John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
John 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
I John 4:9 In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him.
Isaiah 5:20a Woe unto them who call evil good, and good evil. . . KJV
BTW,
January 4, 2009 - 20:34 ET by RESTLESS 1Are you saying the Elect didn't exist before Christ? That's not true either.
"This
liberal would be all about socialize -- uh, uh, would be about
basically taking over and the government running all of your companies."-Maxine Waters 2008
Only through faith in Christ can one be saved
January 4, 2009 - 21:09 ET by suburbaniteNo one was saved until Christ took men's sins onto Himself; was crucified; died; and was resurrected. It is only though Christ's sacrifice are we saved.
From Luke 7:28 (KJV): For I say unto you, Among those that are born of women there is not a greater prophet than John the Baptist: but he that is least in the kingdom of God is greater than he.
From John 14:6 (KJV): Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me
So, in answer to your question, there was no Elect before Christ.
"Fight the good fight every moment
It's your only way" Triumph
Um, yes there was,
January 4, 2009 - 21:12 ET by RESTLESS 1The Prophets who fortold of Chist's coming and sacrifice, among others were among the elect. I am not a devotee to Calvin's view of Predestination, but I can at least follow this far.
"This
liberal would be all about socialize -- uh, uh, would be about
basically taking over and the government running all of your companies."-Maxine Waters 2008
Not according to John
January 4, 2009 - 21:27 ET by suburbaniteJohn 3:13 (KJV): And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.
"Fight the good fight every moment
It's your only way" Triumph
ah yes suburbarnite that
January 4, 2009 - 21:35 ET by botgah yes suburbarnite that where he is we may be also
(PS: Abraham saw My day and rejoiced)
“The way to stop discrimination on the basis of race is to stop discriminating on the basis of race.” -- Chief Justice John Roberts
botg
January 4, 2009 - 21:39 ET by RESTLESS 1I am wondering if sub. doesn't believe the likes of Abraham, Moses, David, Job... are Heaven material.
"This
liberal would be all about socialize -- uh, uh, would be about
basically taking over and the government running all of your companies."-Maxine Waters 2008
restless
January 4, 2009 - 21:42 ET by botgthen we might be able to be sufficient of ourselves but as for me my sufficiency is not of myself, thank God.
“The way to stop discrimination on the basis of race is to stop discriminating on the basis of race.” -- Chief Justice John Roberts
I would refer such people to Hebrews 11.
January 4, 2009 - 21:46 ET by Mike BrattonLots of mentions of Old Testament types and their faith.
Salvation is oriented towards Christ and His finished work. We who are Christians today look back to the cross. Those who were Jesus' contemporaries were eyewitnesses. And before Jesus' incarnation, believers looked forward to the coming of the Messiah.
--Mike
www.thebrattonreport...
Last post from me on this
January 4, 2009 - 22:12 ET by suburbaniteMat 27:52-53 (KJV): And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, And came out of the graves after His resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.
It wasn't until after the resurrection of Christ did the prophets ascend into heaven. Only two men were in heaven prior to the coming of Christ, Enoch and Elijah, but it is only because they were translated in bodily form to heaven by God. They are the exceptions.
I don't know how it worked but Christ called the place Abraham's bosom where the souls of those who were worthy resided before His coming. It was only after His death did heaven become accessible to man which was symbolized by the tearing of the curtain of the temple.
I am only relating what is in the bible and what I've learned from various bible commentaries. This is how I understand things so that there are no contradictions within scripture.
"Fight the good fight every moment
It's your only way" Triumph
You have posted many contradictions, sub.
January 4, 2009 - 22:49 ET by Mike BrattonThe latest contradiction clashes with the Biblical teaching that to be absent from the body is, for us as believers, to be present with the Lord.
The phrase used by Jesus, "Abraham's bosom," is a figure of speech used at the time for Heaven, rather than some sort of metaphysical holding tank. There is no other, alternate explanation for the term. It reinforces the teaching of the immediate presence with God of believers who've passed on.
And the rending of the Temple curtain separating the Holy of Holies demonstrated not the accessibility of Heaven, but rather that there was no further justification for the High Priest--that Christ had made a way for us to directly approach God. Before that event, only the High Priest could enter the Holy of Holies, and then only once a year. The priest had to do so with a rope tied around his ankle; were he to have approached God improperly, the rope was so that his Temple subordinates could drag his dead body out from behind the curtain. Since Christ is now our High Priest, we need have no such fear when approaching God.
You are relating bits and pieces of Bible nuggets, isolated and without their context. Remember, then, that the Bible is its own best commentary. I'm not trying to be argumentative or contrary, but handling Scripture is a serious business, fraught with negative consequences when done haphazardly.
If what you say about the Bible disagrees with what the Bible says about itself, what you say is objectively wrong. This is the problem that Dobson has: He brags (and there's no other word for it) about having read the four Gospels thirty times in the past year, yet he misses basic, fundamental teachings of Jesus in his rush to anoint Obama.
--Mike
www.thebrattonreport...
Suburbanite
January 4, 2009 - 22:55 ET by RESTLESS 1I respect that being your last post on this, but I would only say that I didn't say that anyone ascended into Heaven before the Passion, I only said the Elect were Elect B.C. as well as A.D.
"This
liberal would be all about socialize -- uh, uh, would be about
basically taking over and the government running all of your companies."-Maxine Waters 2008
No, that is wrong.
January 4, 2009 - 20:56 ET by Mike Bratton"Satan and his minions" are not human beings.
David, Solomon, and Samson were not saved in the New Testament sense that they were permanently indwelled by God the Holy Spirit. Nevertheless, while they each sinned, their relationship with God was not severed.
Warning a church to repent is always a good thing, and congregations (as well as denominations) should take Jesus' words to heart, else we will see more problems like those that afflict the Episcopals, Methodists, and other groups. Churches, however, are not individuals.
Your analogies are D.O.A., and thankfully so. Jesus taught, with regard to those of us who are Christians, that no one could remove us from His hand. The Bible clearly says that nothing can separate us from the love of God that is found in Jesus.
And we are promised eternal, everlasting life in Him--not intermittent life, not sporadic life, not hit-and-miss life that depends on our behavior. Salvation is a relationship, suburbanite, that is based on God's love for us. When we accept that salvation by grace through faith, we invite Jesus into our lives as Lord and Savior, as Master and King, not as a temp boss. Our poor behavior can tax the quality of our relationship wtih Christ, but never sever the relationship itself.
Since the Bible refers to our relationship with God as an "adoption," would you care to explain how we Christians can "fall away" from that adoption? Do you know of parents who "un-adopt" their children?
"Falling away" is not taught in the Bible, period. People who live with such mistaken doctrine live quivering, unsure lives, forfeiting the comfort and confidence available to them in Christ. And if you think you can separate yourself from Christ, you might want to read this first, to see where you're left out:
Romans 8
35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?
36 As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.
37 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.
38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
--Mike
www.thebrattonreport...
Mike B, in context
January 4, 2009 - 19:58 ET by botgit is not possible
Matthew 24:24 (American Standard Version)
24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders; so as to lead astray, if possible, even the elect.
Indeed.
January 4, 2009 - 20:58 ET by Mike BrattonContext is always important--as is accuracy in referencing Scripture.
--Mike
www.thebrattonreport...
actually dan's correct as
January 4, 2009 - 21:01 ET by TruthMongeractually dan's correct as originally stated - false prohets will try to lead the elect astray - and for some of those elect it will be possible - we are only forgiven for our sins - not stopped from ever sinning again - until the Rapture i suppose...
it's like saying "go to the grocery store and get some milk, and IF POSSIBLE try and get a frozen pizza - which i have done on occasion - it they're in stock...
so what do i win here?
Dominate education now
you win a momentary lapse
January 4, 2009 - 21:07 ET by botgyou win a momentary lapse of reason for though for a while the elect might be fooled by a false prophet, in the end they will only follow the true One.
“The way to stop discrimination on the basis of race is to stop discriminating on the basis of race.” -- Chief Justice John Roberts
the elect would have to be
January 4, 2009 - 21:12 ET by TruthMongerthe elect would have to be completely perfect and sin-free just like Jesus for that to happen - and we aren't:)
back atcha
though we are covered by
January 4, 2009 - 21:17 ET by botgthough we are covered by his righteousness
if we come in our own righteousness you would be correct but the elect are elect of God.
“The way to stop discrimination on the basis of race is to stop discriminating on the basis of race.” -- Chief Justice John Roberts
We aren't the elect because we're cool.
January 4, 2009 - 21:19 ET by Mike BrattonAnd your supposition that "completely perfect and sin-free" = "unable to be spiritually deceived" doesn't have Biblical support.
--Mike
www.thebrattonreport...
we the believers are the
January 4, 2009 - 21:28 ET by TruthMongerwe the believers are the elect - and Jesus was the only one undeceived
shaking off the dust now:)
run with it then
Dominate education now
TM, absolutely!! and He is
January 4, 2009 - 21:33 ET by botgTM, absolutely!! and He is the Shepherd and the One who makes sure the sheep get home.
“The way to stop discrimination on the basis of race is to stop discriminating on the basis of race.” -- Chief Justice John Roberts
Interesting.
January 4, 2009 - 21:41 ET by Mike BrattonSo you disagree with what Jesus had to say on the matter?
Is it your supposition that God cannot protect us--will not protect us--from spiritual deception?
--Mike
www.thebrattonreport...
Is it your supposition that
January 4, 2009 - 22:15 ET by Dan The Man 2Is it your supposition that God cannot protect us--will not protect us--from spiritual deception?
Cannot protect, no. Will not protect, perhaps he will not because we do not want him to or we take over teh protection for ourselves. One thing si for sure we have free will and exercise it quite frequently. In Dobson's case he might be choosing to believe Satan's lie. And thereby Satan is decieving even the elect.
Dobson may be straying for any nuumber of reasons one of which may be his diseased condition.
Perhaps it is in God's plan for Dobson to do this?
Nuke em til they glow then shoot em in the dark.
Dan the Man!!
January 4, 2009 - 22:28 ET by botgIndeed!! they went out from us because they were not of us. Again many will say to me upon that day Lord, Lord. And yet; I know My sheep and they will not follow another
We get confused because we don't know who is and who is not but He knows, therefore work out your own salvation with fear and trembling
Let's examine that.
January 4, 2009 - 22:58 ET by Mike Bratton"In Dobson's case he might be choosing to believe Satan's lie. And thereby Satan is decieving even the elect."
This statement of yours presumes three things.
First, it presumes that Dobson is a Christian.
Secondly, it presumes that a Christian would knowingly, volitionally, eagerly prefer a lie of Satan to the truth of God.
And thirdly, it presumes that Jesus either lied or misspoke. He said it was impossible for those of us who are Christians to be deceived; you say it's possible.
Would you care to revise your remark?
--Mike
www.thebrattonreport...
impossible for Christians
January 5, 2009 - 00:10 ET by TruthMongerimpossible for Christians to be deceived? where is that written?
what's your take on this:
http://www.cogeternal.org/text/018christiansdeceived.pdf
For your reference, TM.
January 5, 2009 - 00:26 ET by Mike BrattonMark 13:22 is one example of Jesus' teaching on the subject, though it's also found in Matthew 24:24.
And to be precise, the issue He addressed was spiritual deception. It doesn't preclude a believer being suckered, for example, by a Madoff-style Ponzi scheme, but rather addresses much more important matters.
With regard to your link, it torques and mishandles Scripture--and, consequently, isn't terribly valuable. It reads as though it was written by someone who had a clerical or denominational ax to grind. But thanks for the reference.
--Mike
www.thebrattonreport...
well now we're really
January 5, 2009 - 00:37 ET by TruthMongerwell now we're really getting into parsing and interpretation wars - which is ultimately a draw for all of us - but i must say i've never ever heard your take in my evangelical circles over about 20 some years now - which of course is not proof just anecdotal evidence - obviously neither of us can really declare the other wrong on this with total certitude - therefore until then, if pressed, i myself would still err on the side of wariness - keep my armor on as it were - none of these be-on-gaurd passages would be necessary under your interpretation imho...
Dominate education now
No parsing here, TM.
January 5, 2009 - 00:50 ET by Mike BrattonJust plain reading of what the Bible says.
And for you to suggest that I would brand any portion of the Bible as unnecessary is really out of bounds.
You went from discussing an issue to attacking me personally there, and you can apologize for that garbage.
--Mike
www.thebrattonreport...
First, it presumes that
January 5, 2009 - 00:18 ET by Dan The Man 2First, it presumes that Dobson is a Christian
And he says he is. He also has a resume that points to him being Christian. So unless you are God let us assume he is.
Secondly, it presumes that a Christian would knowingly, volitionally, eagerly prefer a lie of Satan to the truth of God.
Sin, requires no more explanation. Even Adam and Eve sinned and believed Satan's lie and they were in direct contact with God. They were also perfect beings at least in physical form if not in spirit.
And thirdly, it presumes that Jesus either lied or misspoke. He said
it was impossible for those of us who are Christians to be deceived;
you say it's possible.
I'm not sure Jesus ever said it was not possible for Christians to be deceived. If He did then prove it.
You miss one important item in your analysis; Dobson is sick and may be affected by his sickness. In her last days my mom, dying of brain cancer, told me she no longer believed. I choose to believe it was the cancer affecting her, but only God knows.
No I am not revising my remarks as I believe the elect can be deceived by the very examples I posited.
Nuke em til they glow then shoot em in the dark.
there are all kinds
January 5, 2009 - 00:30 ET by TruthMongerthere are all kinds of warnings in scripture about the elect being susceptible to deceipt - 2 Thessalonians 2 for a start
Dominate education now
All right, Dan.
January 5, 2009 - 00:44 ET by Mike BrattonI've known a few folks with tremendous clerical resumes who were, it turned out, lost as proverbial geese. Since I don't know Dobson, except to know that he's remarkably mistaken on his most current venture, I make no assumptions.
I suggest you take your own advice: Only God knows his spiritual state, so assuming one way or the other is just that--an assumption.
And there is a difference between sinning and pursuing sin. You suggest that a growing, maturing Christian would actively pursue sin, and that's just not Biblically supportable. To use your example, Adam and Eve did not pursue their sin, but were rather "beguiled" by Satan. And there is nothing in the Bible that suggests either Adam or Eve were perfect; until the Fall, they were sinless, but perfect? Apparently not.
And yet again, Jesus is quoted in both Matthew and Mark that it is impossible for those of us who are Christians to be spiritually deceived. Matthew 24:24, and Mark 13:22.
There.
Proven.
I seriously suggest you revise your remarks, as they are not able to be supported Biblically.
But before I close, let me say this: You are correct that there may be physiological reasons for Dobson to be making such a theologically fundamental error as to suggest that Barack Obama's basic positions are amenable to Christianity. In such cases, people cannot be held responsible for their statements or actions.
Good observation, though one that was painfully developed. My sympathies for your loss.
--Mike
www.thebrattonreport...
Jeez media, give it a rest
January 4, 2009 - 16:48 ET by Defector01Obama = Jesus
Yeah I've heard it about 10,000 times already last year. Come up with something different for a change. Be multicultural and claim Obama's like Muhammad, see what happens.
Oh and for the record, no Christian would claim McCain's like Jesus because last I checked (and speaking as a Jew) there was one Jesus and if he comes back for you guys, he'll let'cha know.
I have only ever made one prayer to God, a very short one: O Lord, make my enemies ridiculous. And God granted it - Voltaire
"Obama = Jesus" Yes this
January 4, 2009 - 18:26 ET by celator"Obama = Jesus"
Yes this is the public relations goal of MSM and other Obama supporters as they continue to try to manipulate the public perception of "the man with no past" Obama.
For believers, this is an act of idolatry, a very serious sin against the First Commandment. MSM reporters are too far gone to care at all about that, of course. But their attempt to persuade the rest of us will end up stinging them in the butt.
Maybe Mr. Dobson should enlighten us
January 4, 2009 - 17:07 ET by suburbaniteI can't find anywhere in the bible where: Jesus mocked scripture; said that He wasn't the only way to heaven; said it's OK to murder unborn children; and that homosexuality was not a sin. Also, meekness doesn't seem to be one of Pres. Obama's strong suits.
II Cor 13 (KJV): For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.
"Fight the good fight every moment
It's your only way" Triumph
Vote for Obama = Vote for Jesus
January 4, 2009 - 17:08 ET by ToddonCapeCod"Well, I decided since I read through the Gospels at that point over 30 times, I wanted to know who represented the fundamental teachings of Jesus. And I felt that he, more than any other candidate, represented the teachings of Jesus. So I voted for him: my first vote for a Democrat."
So he fooled you too, huh
Christianity?
January 4, 2009 - 17:15 ET by The Smokin FrogThe person that is closer to the teachings of Jesus is the person that has been accused by the Law of God and confesses their sins and receives the forgiveness of Christ.
The person that claims that they 'do keep' the Law of God is speaking and believing as the pharisees did, which is why Christ castigated them. Christ died for 'sinners'.
Christ did not come to tell us, that the Father wants us to try harder. He came to be a substitute for us, to receive the wrath of God for our sin against Him. As Scripture says, "there is no one that is good" also ""If we say we have no sin the truth is not in us."
The Christian lives in repentance for sins, and faith that Christ forgives them, moment by moment, asking the Lord for mercy as the publican in the temple did, "Lord be merciful to me THE sinner." We are frauds if we present ourselves to each other as improved, less sinful people. Unfortunately too many Christians, such as Dobson, have ceased believing this. And instead believe in varying degrees of perfectionism.
Mike Bratton is right about Obama...he is a psuedo Christian. He uses the language of Christianity but changes the meaning to some form of citizenship.
http://tsfprotests.b...
Why did Christ Jesus Come to this fleshly realm?
January 5, 2009 - 07:08 ET by sentforth5God makes it clear as a bell in Hebrews:
Heb. 2:14Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood,He also Himself likewise took part of the same; that through death He might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;
(15) And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage...
Read on, too....God would not ask us to do something He would not do also....only He did it perfectly.
Amos 8:11 Put some meat on dem bones!
These men better repent
January 4, 2009 - 17:37 ET by sentforth5It's not too late to take a look at this digusting and unwarrated comparison they keep making between Our Lord and Saviour Christ Jesus, and this piddly sinner piece-o-crap man obummer. God says very clearly that you may not be allowed to stay....there is still time to receive the unmerited love Christ offers, and to put the chances of perishing behind them.We pray they will.
Amos 8:11 Put some meat on dem bones!
"Messiah?"
January 4, 2009 - 17:54 ET by NortoDid it ever occur to Dobson that Obama never objected to being called the one, and by Farra-whatever at that? I suspect this man had been in a coma up until election day.
How could any so-called Christian vote for a man who has the "audacity" to let his "followers" use so many different references to Christ when speaking of him.??
ya right
January 4, 2009 - 19:25 ET by boozydo not think Jesus would be to hot on "O",s hot to trot position on partial birth abortion.....this fellow is not what Jesus was all about..
The Candidate who Emulates Christ...
January 4, 2009 - 23:49 ET by Tom1969caThe candidate who, IMHO, at least tries to follow Christ's teachings in their day-to-day life, in the difficult decisions they face both personally and professionally, and in their policies was not running for President in this election ...
... but, hopefully, she will in 2012!
=====
Daily Sarah Palin fact:
Sarah Palin is not perfect. The point is, she knows this, she accepts it ... and she accepted The One who can perfect her!
Would Jesus have boasted
January 5, 2009 - 00:02 ET by JerryWould Jesus have boasted about being "his brother's keeper" after having done nothing for his own destitute brother?
Would Jesus have sat in a church for 20 years listening to a pastor who calls upon God to damn the very people Jesus sought to lead?
Would Jesus have sought to force the Temple to accept homosexual priests and perform marriage ceremonies between men & men and between women & women?
Would Jesus have championed the slaughter of innocent babies, whose very LIFE was a gift from God?
Would Jesus have accepted BAZILLIONS of dollars from unsavory sources to allow Him to achieve power?
Would Jesus have denied aide to a helpless baby who survived a barbaric attack?
Would Jesus have sought the aid of terrorists and mobsters in order to further His career?
Obama best represents the teachings of Jesus??? As opposed to who, Hitler?
When asked if he went to war with Iraq to derail the impeachment vote: “I don’t think any serious person would believe that any President would do such a thing." - President Clinton (Dec 1998).
Jerry...The words thank
January 5, 2009 - 00:05 ET by bigtimerJerry...
The words "thank you" for your post are insufficient, but here goes anyway...
THANK YOU!
"America isn't the problem...America is the solution." ~ Rush Limbaugh
Bless you, BT. What
January 5, 2009 - 00:26 ET by JerryBless you, BT. What in the world could Dobson possibly have been thinking? I guess he just saw too many Obama halo pictures.
When asked if he went to war with Iraq to derail the impeachment vote: “I don’t think any serious person would believe that any President would do such a thing." - President Clinton (Dec 1998).
Hey BT, Guys, Bear With Me Here. . .
January 5, 2009 - 00:46 ET by Asian ConI really don't like putting labels on people or myself. However, I will admit to being an atheist. Meaning, I don't believe in a higher power, a Creator if you will, or an Afterlife. Whether you're a believer or not, doesn't change the person you are on the inside. I try to live my life by the Ten Commandments because I think those rules are universal and they transcend religion. (But, that's another discussion for another day and another thread)
That being said, the comparisons to Jesus is so over the top. I mean, if there really is an Afterlife then, these guys doing the false idol worshipping should be worried. Isn't there a line in the Bible that goes, "Thou shalt not have any other God except me". Is it wrong to wish people to Hell? Even liberals? Even if you think such a place doesn't exist?
I watch a lot of the History Channel. Besides ancient civilizations and UFOs, religion is a topic that fascinates me. Just because I'm a non believer doesn't mean I don't keep myself informed about faith. All this week they've been running shows on the 7 deadly sins. From everything I know about the Antichrist, don't you think that's a more appropriate comparison to "The One"?
Or, how about Jim Jones? A reverend who perverted the teachings of Christ for his own sick reasons. A guy who some, unfortunate and gullible people, thought was "The One". He was a great orator, too. He was a community organizer, too. Yet, he lead a thousand people to slaughter. Hence, the term, drink the Kool Aid.
"For The First Time In My Life, I Am No Longer Proud Of My Country Because It Seems Like, Socialism Has Made A Comeback"
jerry
January 5, 2009 - 00:19 ET by botgkudos
“The way to stop discrimination on the basis of race is to stop discriminating on the basis of race.” -- Chief Justice John Roberts
Wowee!
January 5, 2009 - 06:58 ET by sentforth5I'm glad to see that any story on Christ results in 100 plus comments! That shows a healthy thirst for The Living Water!Tit-for-tat and back and forth and Jill came tumbling after....lots of interesting stuff this time! I notice a few NIV and NASB and NKJV stuff, but that's okay, I guess, but I strongly recommend the KJV ONLY when English speaking persons study.Just sayin'.Let me comment on a couple things..First the Trinity...
1John 5:7--For there are three that bear record in Heaven.the Father,the Word, and the Holy Spirit: and these three are one.
The Godhead has three offices through which Our Father executes His activities. Let me use an example..I am Pastor Murphy..to my flock,if you will, I am Pastor, To my sister's children I am uncle..to my mom I am son...to my wife I am husband...all seperate offices I hold, but still just me.
A word on angels...an angel is no more or less people who are not in this dimension, whether born in the flesh and returned, or not yet born in the flesh,and still in the "Heavenly" realm. Angel means MESSENGER; If God uses an individual to send someone a message in our fleshly realm, that individual becomes an angel while executing God's will.Otherwise we are simply God's HOST..that is what ELOHIM means..God AND the angels. Some are good,but some are bad...why? because people are people whether they are in Heaven or bound in this Earth under the sun.
A word on the Election..
We have three Earth ages spoken of in scripture..check out 2Peter ch 3 to get a hold on this, but we were all on Earth in the first Earth age and satan(Haliel) was one of the protecting cherubs over the mercy seat of Christ..the other in my opinion was Michael. satan got full of himself and decided that he wanted to SIT in the mercy seat himself, and he suckered about 1/3 of God's children into following him. Well, God put an end to that and rather than kill His children for this mistake, He began the second Earth age (this one now) and caused each soul to be born of the flesh innocent of a woman's womb, and we have to live this life to CHOOSE between God and satan. This choice is what we will be judged by in the end of The Lord's Day, or The Millenium. Now, at the overthrow of satan in the first Earth age, about 1/3 of God's children fought AGAINST satan. These are God's remnant and election. They have already been judged, found innocent, and in this Earth age they work soley for God, and God can situate them and use them to accomplish His will and it does not affect their chance of salvation...they are predestined...Jeremiah is a good example of this. Those who still stand in controversy with God are given free will in this Earth age so that they can make a choice to love God, or follow after satan.
I wish I could go on, but I gotta go to work...Good conversation, though, and healthy for the soul!
Amos 8:11 Put some meat on dem bones!
How the hell can he say
January 5, 2009 - 12:31 ET by mattmHow the hell can he say that? Either he's a dupe or he's a dope.
Church and State Problem
January 5, 2009 - 13:22 ET by deerjerkydaveMr. Weir fell prey to what will be the downfall of our nation. The state should not replace the church. The state should not be in the business of handing out charity. That is the role of the church. Churches and charities should not have to compete with the government for dollars. And this is the rub, government receives its "donations" by force. Charities receive their donations by the love of neighbor.