Barney Frank favors bailing out the Detroit automakers over letting them go into bankruptcy. Chief among his concerns is that bankruptcy might "bust" the unions. You know, those organizations whose contract demands have put Detroit on the brink of extinction.
The Massachusetts Dem, chairman of the House Financial Services Committee, was interviewed by Maggie Rodriguez on today's Early Show. He appeared alongside Sen. Richard Shelby (R-Al.), ranking Republican on the Senate Banking Committee, who favors letting the automakers reorganize under Chapter 11.
BARNEY FRANK: Bankruptcy would be very disruptive. Bankruptcy is a favorite spectator sport for politicians and experts who don't have to engage in it. You have a whole network of suppliers--small businesses and others--who would get "stiffed," to use the legal term, in a bankruptcy.As our sister organization CNS has reported, "it costs over $73 per hour on average to employ a union auto worker." That compares to an average of about $43/hour for the non-union workers of the Japanese automakers with operations in the US.
There is also an assumption that if you do bankruptcy, you could undo labor contracts. Now the unions to their credit have negotiated some concessions. But you know, we already have too much union-busting and too much income inequality for the average worker in this country for us to now say by the way, if you're a company and you haven't been able to totally get rid of the unions, then go bankrupt and rewrite, write down the contracts.
Some "concessions." Will the MSM highlight that disparity?
—Mark Finkelstein is a NewsBusters contributing editor and host of Right Angle. Contact him at mark@gunhill.net.
Editor at Large
Comments Policy
No kidding, Barney. That's
Wed, 11/19/2008 - 10:59 ET by optimistNo kidding, Barney. That's the point.
Sign petition to object to Detroit bailout
Wed, 11/19/2008 - 22:19 ET by MaximusBraveheartStop the bailout petition: http://www.capwiz.com/freedomworks/issues/alert/?alertid=12215391
If you object to such a petition, this is what I wrote to defend it when a friend disagreed; saying we need the bailout:
It is all in the negotiation... A loan would be OK with proper terms: CEO, Chairman resign, and then new management is brought in as approved by a group of the top non-employee stock holders. Union contracts automatically reduced by a fixed percentage; say 33%. This would allow them to pursue the proper products at the right market price.
Washington won't do that of course unless forced by the public. That is why you object to the loan under the current terms.
Eventually, even with the current proposed loan, bankruptcy is likely inevitable because it does not address the two major problems; labor and senior management. They cannot compete in the USA due to the UAW. And it is the senior management that cannot pick the right cars to make or know how to negotiate apparently... We will find out since this is the path we likely face. Labor will have to be renegotiated at that point anyway. Best to do it properly now vs. a band aid that will fall off as soon as the cash is burned through.
Thanks for letting me know!
==================
Sorry, but I can't agree with you on this one. The big picture is if the big three go bankrupt they will take 100's of supplier companies with them. The impact on our economy would be devastating.
M-B
Let's put Mr. Lollipop in
Wed, 11/19/2008 - 11:14 ET by mattmLet's put Mr. Lollipop in charge of GM and he can do for the Auto Industry what he did for Banking.
Yaba, daba, doo!
Wed, 11/19/2008 - 11:14 ET by CrashBust the unions ... now that's what I call campaign finance reform!
That's The "Rub"
Wed, 11/19/2008 - 12:02 ET by Wildcatter1980It is not the role of government to either encourage or discourage unionization. It IS the role of government to insure that no illegal activities occur relative to union management relations and the unionization process.
Government should also refrain from passing the improperly named Employee Free Choice Act aka "card check". This is simple pandering to the Democrat Party's union constituents who have been unable to fairly unionize large corporations like Wal Mart. Rather than being forced to revise their approach like any other competitive enterprise would in a free marketplace, they would rather change the rules--take away the right of individuals to a secret ballot unionization vote--so as to be able to use intimidation tactics to organize new unions.
--
Ignorance, our most costly commodity - paraphrased from Rush Limbaugh
Unions today are the robber
Wed, 11/19/2008 - 13:01 ET by BlackwaterUnions today are the robber barrons of the 19th century. The Union bosses don't give a damn about their members. They simply want to swell their ranks because it means more money for them from their members.
I've dealt with them first hand, I work in NYC with a Construction Company, and all they do is increase costs expeditiously and jobs take much longer then they should. Such an example is that if you hire a union brick layer, they will at maximum do 400 bricks a day and that's it. Not a single brick more.
Unions are a detriment to our economy. They destroy efficiency and sky rocket costs. They're something we can use less of.
Thank you! Amen!
Wed, 11/19/2008 - 13:41 ET by TexasteacherThank you! Amen!
They steal from non-union workers too.
Wed, 11/19/2008 - 15:39 ET by andophiroxiaI once held a government and a university position at one time (not at the same time). The unions would NOT let you join unless you transitioned over from "casual" to another status. This usually took from 90 days for the university and 6 months for the government position.
They still took my money in dues anyway-even though I didn't qualify.
Funny enough, when it came near the time for me to qualify, the government job said all casuals were rolled back to being casual. The university job let me go short of my 90 days.
They still kept my money though for union dues even though I wasn't a member yet. Tell me if that's ok.
Let the unions die.
“You have enemies? Good. That means you’ve stood up for something, sometime in your life.” ~ Winston Churchill
Barney's worried that the
Wed, 11/19/2008 - 11:16 ET by motherbeltBarney's worried that the unions might go bust?
We should be so lucky.
No Bailout for UAW
Wed, 11/19/2008 - 11:15 ET by krendlerSorry. No Bailout for the friggin' UAW.
And Barney Frank and Maxine Waters! Sheezzz. Really encouraging to see those two imbeciles involved in economic policy and oversight.
Let's get Franklin Raines involved if at all possible. Barack: Is there a position open in you cabinet?
Sure, why not? LOL In
Wed, 11/19/2008 - 11:27 ET by motherbeltSure, why not? LOL
In fact, here's Maxine Waters with a testimonial to the outstanding leader Mr. Raines!
Go to 00:35 for relevant portion.
Don't forget to invite
Wed, 11/19/2008 - 11:43 ET by Dan DiegoDon't forget to invite Gorelick to the party...
The cost of living's going up, and the chance of livin's going down. - Flip Wilson
Busting Unions...
Wed, 11/19/2008 - 11:20 ET by BiasedGirlI wish we had the courage to Bust up the UAW. I don't want my Tax dollars going to "bridge the gap" in an industry that has allowed itself to be corrupted by the Union. The auto industry will Never recover until they renegotiate the Union contracts that have created this mess.
http://www.withbias.net
One slight
Wed, 11/19/2008 - 11:52 ET by bradbenj5952One slight disagreement...the union contracts don't need renegotiation...the unions just need to go away. That is the only way that manufacturing is going to get rebuilt in this country. The Japanese auto makers can manufacture and compete here because they are not unionized. And if the unions try to move in with their thug tactics, the Japanese will just go away. U.S. auto makers can't just go away, so the unions have to. The only thing the Democrats care about in this situation is protecting their major voting blocks...teachers unions, manufacturing unions, the poor, etc., etc. So it is in their interest to maintain the status quo and the consequent dependence. This is the most disgusting thing about the Democrat's form of politics today...many Republicans try to do it too. It's not about doing what is best for the country, but what they need to do to buy votes. Republicans, at least the few who actually still care about the Constitution, spend all of their time trying to unravel the mess created in all of this.
"Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house." Acts 16:31
Personally, I love irony,
Wed, 11/19/2008 - 11:41 ET by optimistPersonally, I love irony, and to see the UAW contracts broken when Washington is totally Dem controlled would be especially delicious. After that, what would stop the Big 3 from eventually moving operations to a right to work state?
If you love irony....
Wed, 11/19/2008 - 19:35 ET by Andante...seeing Barney Frank heading up the Banking Committee must have made your day.
The inmates are now running the asylum.
-------------------------------------
"A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury."
Inaudibles
Wed, 11/19/2008 - 11:41 ET by Rico13I think the "inaudibles" were "income inequality for the average worker".
Barney is right..there sure is "income inequality" betweeen the UAW worker and the "average" worker in America.
Thanks, Rico. I played the
Wed, 11/19/2008 - 11:46 ET by Mark FinkelsteinThanks, Rico. I played the recording back on another computer with better speakers and heard it as you did. I've made the changes.
Barney is right..there sure
Wed, 11/19/2008 - 12:27 ET by motherbeltBarney is right..there sure is "income inequality" betweeen the UAW worker and the "average" worker in America.
No kidding. This is like the teachers' unions demanding more tax money from the parents of the kids they teach, to underwrite their free health care plans!
The unions want a separate $25 billion to pay for future costs of their gold-plated retirement plans (pensions and medical benefits)!
I say not no, but HELL NO!
Sorry folks...
Wed, 11/19/2008 - 11:45 ET by AJBComrade Supreme Glorious Leader Obama first act will be to do away with union secret ballot elections, replacing it with union thugs forcing new union workers to sign the petition. All that will be needed is to intimidate 50.1% of the members into signing and the unions will be IN like FLYNN.
Yes, we FINALLY have CHANGE. Change to Big Unions, Clintonistas in the Cabinet, dead babies popping out everywhere and, don't forget, the TRUTH SQUADS.
Looks to me, the unions have
Wed, 11/19/2008 - 11:51 ET by 10ksnookerLooks to me, the unions have busted the companies.
see we told them so and
Wed, 11/19/2008 - 14:30 ET by TruthMongersee we told them so
and just look at all the outrage directed at unions now...
not, as usual
Dominate education now
The problem I have had all along
Wed, 11/19/2008 - 11:59 ET by ahusserwith the bailouts is how does one decide which corporation gets the bailout. If the financial market bailout is just a matter of loans of last resort which will be paid back. I have no real problem with loans as long as they are securitized by real assets. But that being said why was Lehman Bros (or circuit city for that matter) allowed to go into bankruptcy and others not, because they are too large, too 'important' to go bankrupt. All corporations, big and small, on the brink will have their hands out awaiting their handout. Shouting "no fair" when they are not picked for the largesse. The taxpayer (aka the government) becomes the insurer of industry (FDIC anyone?) instead of natural economic forces being the arbiter. To be sure these decisions will be made on political lines and is ripe for corruption (Skimming, bribery kickbacks come to mind) there is too much at stake and too much money involved for greed and self-interest not to rear its head.
"...no civilization, no matter how rich, no matter how refined, can long survive once it loses the power to meet force with equal or superior force." - Bernard Knox
Simple...
Wed, 11/19/2008 - 13:49 ET by AJBCount up the above-the-board and under-the-table contributions to Comrade Glorious Supreme Leader Obama's campaign, multiply that by a factor of 1,000 and get your bailout. Let's see... Fannie Mae gave LOTS and LOTS of cash to Comrade Obama and they got LOTS and LOTS and LOTS of cash back.
Now, on the other hand, if you didn't come around, just like if you don't donate to the Rainbow Coalition, then you get picketed, boycotted and bankrupted.
Bet those stupid GM execs wish they had given more...
Let's begin the "Great
Wed, 11/19/2008 - 12:01 ET by SickofLibsLet's begin the "Great Redistribution" with the UAW, where the average line worker has a $150,000/yr package.
The UAW will make ZERO concessions? Screw them.
(Frank's salary is $169,300)
Barney Frank
Wed, 11/19/2008 - 12:06 ET by Long Island PeteBarney Frank should be in a prison jumpsuit and handcuffs whether he likes it or loves it.
Frank
Wed, 11/19/2008 - 12:08 ET by rick007Barny Frank wears depends.
Barny shoul be tries and sent to prison. Gee he might like the prison life.
Alot of sex no commitment.
He is concerned....
Wed, 11/19/2008 - 12:10 ET by szampI'm celebrating. That's going to show the country one more time the results of union abuse.
Barney is a joke
Wed, 11/19/2008 - 12:12 ET by Pha PhaHi All,
I am ashamed to admit that he/she is my congress person.
Please call his office and let him know how wrong he always is.
202-225-5931. I have called and will call every hour on the hour.
I have put this link on my hometown blog and asked all my fellow townspeople to read and asked the same of them.
I have no clue why he gets elected every 2 years for the past 20 years.
Thank you
Barney is a joke
Wed, 11/19/2008 - 12:12 ET by Pha PhaHi All,
I am ashamed to admit that he/she is my congress person.
Please call his office and let him know how wrong he always is.
202-225-5931. I have called and will call every hour on the hour.
I have put this link on my hometown blog and asked all my fellow townspeople to read and asked the same of them.
I have no clue why he gets elected every 2 years for the past 20 years.
Thank you
Bust Away!
Wed, 11/19/2008 - 12:21 ET by CBrauWhat better way to reward the employee who works the hardest and is the most productive? (Alternatively, the UAW would like to reward the average worker who was born earliest.)
As has been discussed, bankruptcy will allow the existing resources to get properly aligned with the industry as it exists today. In the long run, profitable companies will emerge.
My brother in law used to
Wed, 11/19/2008 - 12:39 ET by UtherpendMy brother in law used to work at the Ford plant in Louisville KY up till a year ago. For the past 15 years he has been making almost $80k a year to put three screws in the bed of trucks. All the while bragging how the union was the best thing since sliced bread and bad mouthing any car not the size of semi and half the price.
Five years ago I noticed the shift in consumer buying trends and the sharp drop in profit that Ford was reporting. Each year it became worse and his only comment was, that was Fords problem, he didn't care since the Union would take car of him. When I pointed out to him that if his plant closed he would be able to draw off his union for about a year before the dump him, then where would he be, he scoffed at me. So now he has been laid off, draws a partial pension and drives a Toyota while my sister works.
Just goes to show that people don't care unless the issue directly affects them personally.
"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquillity of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you"
New World Order
Wed, 11/19/2008 - 13:01 ET by melpolhttp://www.associatedcontent.com/melpol
After years of going on a mindless spree big spenders are waking up to the fact that they are broke. So are those that supplied the credit. All the kings horses and all the kings men cannot pick them up again. That is the story of the busted global economy. A new world order has to be established where there is a balance between production and consumption. until that happens we will be mired down in a never ending depression
Real Embarrassment
Wed, 11/19/2008 - 13:01 ET by Redrowan2000Isn't it enough that this ignorant and arrogant porcine trough dweller is partly responsible for the misery that will soon be coming to everybodies doorstep ? Now he wants to share his expertise in helping to drive the stake in the heart of the taxpayers by offering money to companies that could not care less about the American public, as seen throught their mismangement and ivory tower outlook on the future. They produced gas guzzlers when they should have been producing gas savers. They did nothing to fight off the foreign auto companies, they did nothing to compete with them on their own turf, and the Senators and Congressmen who were in the pockets of the foreign automakers should be tried for treason. We are no longer an industrial manufacturing country , we think that buying and selling, whether it be stocks or real estate is what will keep the economy strong. With an Honest to God legitimate ignoramus like Frank sitting at the head of the table on these issues we are doomed.
"Don't let the bastards grind you down."
Red
$73 an hour! What do
Wed, 11/19/2008 - 13:09 ET by HockeyKid$73 an hour! What do these guys think they are, brain surgeons?
Reminds me of an old joke: A heart surgeon takes his Mercedes to the shop for repairs, and the mechanic tells him it'll just be a couple of minutes. While the doctor's waiting, the mechanic strikes up a conversation.
"You know, doc, you and me, we do pretty much the same kind of thing. This here engine, it's like the heart of a car. It has valves, and it keeps the car running. I fix valves, you fix valves. You keep people alive, I keep cars alive."
"Indeed," says the surgeon.
"Yep. I could take this engine, replace the valves, put it back together, and off it goes. So what I want to know is, how come you get paid so much more than I do?"
The doctor replies, "Do that while it's running."
"Beauty is only skin deep, but liberal's to the bone." - me
"As our sister organization
Wed, 11/19/2008 - 13:51 ET by Texasteacher"As our sister organization CNS has reported, "it costs over $73 per hour on average to employ a union auto worker."
I wish I made that much!!!! (I make less than half of that per hour)
I know some on here don't want teachers to make that much but it would be nice.
But I do agree teacher's unions suck. That's why I'm not in one. The legal insurance would be nice to have just in case, but I'm not going to do anything stupid to get me sued.
ABC mentioned it Monday
Wed, 11/19/2008 - 13:10 ET by SouthJersey1953Mark,
ABC News (don't remember if it was Evening News or GMA - I listen to both on radio to and from work) did mention the difference in labor cost for Big Three vs Honda. I wa surprised they did!
Luke 23:34
PALIN/Jindal '12
Paging sanity
Wed, 11/19/2008 - 13:14 ET by acumenSo basically Barney wants to use my non-union wages in the form of tax dollars to prop up union wages - Not seeing the benefit to my family here Barney.
Shouldn't this guy (gal?) be out on a ledge somewhere?
And in related Bizzaro World news -- The big 3 bosses fly to the beggars banquet in their private jets.
Barney Frank --Just Go Away!!!
Wed, 11/19/2008 - 13:28 ET by semolina_filcherThe audacious capacity of this moron is simply unnerving. After this militant gay singlehandedly destroyed the mortgage and banking markets, this creep now wants us to bailout the automakers for fear that the greedy and corrupt unions will go bankrupt? Hell, let these unions go bankrupt...they were the reason the automakers are failing.
When certain airline companies filed for bankruptcy, the unions were thrown but did the planes stopped flying? No. There is no way the three automakers will stop making cars simply by filing bankruptcy. There is this reorganization that can happen to help restore the credibility of the US automakers. I buy American cars, I just (lost) belief in the all-powerful and corrupt unions. I belong to a union as it was part of my employment requirement but I can honestly say they ain't done nothing for me but to fatten their own coffers!!!!
Orbis non Suffici
Sorry
Wed, 11/19/2008 - 13:30 ET by guefyI'm not going to believe that the UAW is the evil empire that is bringing down the auto industry. So who's to blame for the wall street mess? The United Stockbrokers Union? The mortgage crap? The United Mortgage Workers?
USW and Republican
Democrats=Unions
Wed, 11/19/2008 - 14:06 ET by jistincaseThe unions have their greasy little fingers in just about everything and if you want to fix blame then you can blame the unoins for they in fact are the Democracks who started the whole housing meltdown way back when Carter was wimp in charge.
Unions: The Cancer
Wed, 11/19/2008 - 14:18 ET by UnsaneI believe it. Your attitude alone is proof.
You, and the unions, HAVE to accept: Res tantum valorum quantum vendi potest. That applies to labor. The UAW has been happily pricing labor out of the market for years now and it has been paying the price, all the while blaming everyone and anyone but themselves.
It isn't necessarily that GM, Ford and Chrysler are making bad vehicles. I drive a Dodge, in fact, have for years, and am seriously inclined to buy another. People want them, but as labor costs at GM (for example) are around $70/hour and costs at Toyota are around $40/hour, guess who will have the cheaper vehicles?
I can also blame the Big Three for signing those stupid contracts, or the government for strangling the Big Three with regulations from hell. But don't tell me the unions aren't culpable, or that unions aren't a cancer in the body of American industry.
To wit: when I was younger, we had Kroger stores in San Antonio. They were feeling massive pressure from other competitors in the early 1990s. Around 1993, they asked their unions to take wage cuts so that they could remain competitive in town, and thus keep their jobs. All of the unions saw the writing on the wall and agreed. All, but one: the meat cutter's union, whose attitude was basically "No! You guys are greedy! You guys PRINT money! Pay us and treat us like multi-millionaires or else!!!" (I ask: who was greediest in that situation? It wasn't management...)
Well, since the meat cutter's union decided that they were worth more than the market was willing to bear, Kroger responded. Instead of the meat cutter's union keeping their wages, they took a wage cut. To zero. As did ALL of Kroger's employees, who closed all their San Antonio and Austin stores and left town.
Unions are the cancer. Chapter 11 is the chemo.
"THIS IS YOUR FINAL WARNING!!! A WAR ON FREEWILL IS COMING!!!" - Nevermore, "Bittersweet Feast", from This Godless Endeavor (2005)
The same type of thing happend to a GM(?) plant...
Wed, 11/19/2008 - 16:43 ET by Wilbur747The company signed a deal with UAW that would pay workers NOT to work in hopes that this would prevent the company from sending jobs overseas.
If memory serves, it cost 140M per year for people not to work.
They tried to renegotiate the UAW contracts...union said no, and the company closed the plant down permanently.
Unions have nothing to
Thu, 11/20/2008 - 11:52 ET by TailgunnerUnions have nothing to offer a corporation except force and extortion. They count on the corporations' unwillingness or inability to move out of their reach.
This is now happening. With Obama's socialist regime fast approaching and evidence even today that Democrats are willing to misappropriate billions in taxpayer money to pay off their loyal union ward-heelers, I expect corporations to flee the US in the same numbers as illegal aliens are coming into it.
Obama is dancing around the 'tax increases' issue until he takes office, trying not to scare investors into moving out of the markets. But it is clear which side of the management-labor equation he favors.
What are Obama and the Democrats going to do when the money they were going to seize to create Utopia is gone?
NOLI PUGNARE ME OCCIDERE
I'm not going to believe
Thu, 11/20/2008 - 19:28 ET by fitzfongI'm not going to believe that the UAW is the evil empire that is bringing down the auto industry.
Of course you're not, sweetheart. Because that would require a bit of honesty and self-awareness...something most union types completely lack.
"Government's view of the economy could be summed up in a few short phrases: If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops moving, subsidize it." -Ronald Reagan
fitzfong.blogspot.com
Help me
Wed, 11/19/2008 - 14:08 ET by UnsaneI'm confused. Is Barney Frank talking about busting the UAW as if it's a BAD thing?
"THIS IS YOUR FINAL WARNING!!! A WAR ON FREEWILL IS COMING!!!" - Nevermore, "Bittersweet Feast", from This Godless Endeavor (2005)
Frank is worried ...
Wed, 11/19/2008 - 14:16 ET by SentryDanFrank is worried that bankruptcy will bust the unions. It appears that Frank doesn't care about the people as much as he does the union bosses.
When the unions first came into being, they were necessary. Today, they are destroying companies. And the union bosses don't care. They will get their money while the workers take it in the shorts. And for what? Out of a $2.00 per hr cash raise plus $2.00 per hr benefits the worker will see maybe $1.00 of the cash raise and $1.50 of the benefits, while the union bosses get the rest.
Remember folks, Freedom isn't Free.
Unions suck
Wed, 11/19/2008 - 15:20 ET by dammitPrior to my retirement, I was an elected union official for many years. I ran for election to see what my dues were being used for. I did not like what I found.
Supporting things and policies that were very much contrary to what represents my point of view. I fought for changes and some were realized. The membership showed that they agreed.
Unions had a time and place. That time is gone. No bailout is going to do anything but pay for their healthcare and retirement with my money. To Hell with them.
If It Is To Be, It Is Up To Me
My sentiments exactly.
Wed, 11/19/2008 - 15:26 ET by semolina_filcherMy sentiments exactly. Truth be told, I don't appreciate their intimidation, scare-mongering tactics. I believe the decency in negotiating a contract with management can be reached by not becoming bellicose about every issue........where are my union dues going to? To fund a fraud like Obama be elected as pretend POTUS.
Orbis non Suffici
Agreed!
Wed, 11/19/2008 - 17:16 ET by Wilbur747As a locomotive engineer and unfortunately a union dog, I was amazed to see that even though I'd indicated that none of my dues be used for PACs (I knew they went to the Dems), I found that portions of my dues still went to Dem elections.
I live in a right-to-work state and do not have to be a dues paying member. I am though because I know that the union wouldn't represent me the same way they would a dues paying member even thought the law says they have to.
Some people here who pay no union dues, instead giving it to a charity, but they still are chastized and called scabs.
Here's a scary thought. There are people that I refuse to work with because I, and many others feel they're dangerous with a total disregard others, the rules and safety. The company fires them but the d&#*ed union gets their jobs back. Remember the Metrolink collision in LA? The engineer was the cause of the collision but the union said it was the company's fault even in light of the NTSB evidence. You can't fire even the worst of employees, even if people get hurt or killed.
Go ahead and fire all the
Wed, 11/19/2008 - 15:30 ET by goldbarGo ahead and fire all the autoworkers and offer them their jobs back at half the pay with little or no benefits. Then hire "guest workers" to work the assembly line. I wouldn't want three million pissed off autoworkers coming after me. Labor can live without management but management can't survive without labor.
Labor Chaos Theory
Wed, 11/19/2008 - 15:41 ET by CobraMan"Labor can live without management"
That's what I call Labor Chaos Theory. Without some type of management, the laborers begin to disorganize, creating chaos and disruption amongst themselves and their labor, as there is no organization of labor and management of resources. That's a quick trip to financial ruin, and the end of the laborer's jobs.
Obama: My job is above my pay grade
Economic idiocy again
Wed, 11/19/2008 - 17:57 ET by UnsaneLabor can live without management?
Sure. Tell that to the employees of Kroger in San Antonio. (see above example). And I'd be very willing to bet that those who run the UAW are 100% ill equipped to run a major corporation, just as you, from everything I have seen you type on NB, are 100% ill equipped to run a lemonade stand.
Res tantum valorem quantum vendi potest, plumbumbar, my hardened, committed Socialist poster. That little saying applies to labor as well.
"THIS IS YOUR FINAL WARNING!!! A WAR ON FREEWILL IS COMING!!!" - Nevermore, "Bittersweet Feast", from This Godless Endeavor (2005)
from everything I have seen
Wed, 11/19/2008 - 18:21 ET by Dan The Man 2from everything I have seen you type on NB, are 100% ill equipped to run a lemonade stand - I will stand up for goldbrick on thsi one. I would say he is oopretty sour most of the time so he does make it in that arena and he is all wet; so dont abuse poor goldbrick that way.
Nuke em til they glow then shoot em in the dark.
Wow Barney
Wed, 11/19/2008 - 15:50 ET by Delsayou have stumbled on to the truth of the matter.
File chapter 11, reorganizing by telling the union ta ta, next, roll back management pay scales and tie them to earnings, then ask all employees who wish to stay under new management to stay, cut pay scales and tie future increases to earnings.
The pay may be less, the employee may have to pay a little more for their health insurance, there maybe a tighter controls but all will start from scratch and have a shot at BREATHING without UNIONS!
Unions killed Eastern and PanAm World Airways. They have killed almost every industry they've been involved in.
Give NON-Union a chance.
Get over it Barney. Maybe you are scared to death the turth will be on display for all to see.
Most of the workers will choose to WORK!
Unions area just one reason I buy Toyota...
Wed, 11/19/2008 - 15:55 ET by Wilbur747I refuse to buy a union made vehicle. Two main reasons:
1. Union made vehicles consistenty rank low in customer satisfaction and reliability. Just read Consumer Reports and see which cars they consistently recommend; Toyotas, Nissans, Volvo, Volkswagons, etc, all non-union. I want the best made vehicle I can afford and it's not Ford, Chrysler or GM! I had a 1982 Toyota for 19 years with nothing more than tune ups done to it.
2. By buying a Big 3 car, I am in effect supporting the UAW and Democrats. Being a member of a union at work, I can tell you without any reservations that I hate them. They take your dues and give noting in return... except the Presidency to Obama, I guess, and that scares me more than being out of work!
I guarantee your Toyota was
Wed, 11/19/2008 - 16:13 ET by goldbarI guarantee your Toyota was made with union labor. You are correct about Japanese cars being better built than American cars. If the big three could make a quality, reasonably priced vehicle, they wouldn't be in the trouble they're in now.
I beg to differ...
Wed, 11/19/2008 - 16:38 ET by Wilbur747My vehicles are not union made. Only the Tacoma and Corolla are union made and those are souced from outside.
Notice how many foreign cars that are built in the U.S., by Americans, are not on the list.
http://www.uaw.org/uawmade/auto/2008/index.cfm
So do
Wed, 11/19/2008 - 17:52 ET by goldbarSo do I.
http://www.jaw.or.jp/e/
An explanation
Wed, 11/19/2008 - 18:33 ET by UnsaneSo THIS explains why Japanese auto makers are building cars and trucks in NON-UNION plants in the United States!!!
"THIS IS YOUR FINAL WARNING!!! A WAR ON FREEWILL IS COMING!!!" - Nevermore, "Bittersweet Feast", from This Godless Endeavor (2005)
See below...
Wed, 11/19/2008 - 19:36 ET by Wilbur747No U.S. Toyota plant has been fully unionized by the UAW. While they have some union members working for them, they are not controlled by massive UAW contracts, nor does the UAW represent the entire workforce, only those who are members from previous auto plants.
And yes, Toyota is considered by the AFL-CIO, Teamsters and others as a non union company.
The JAW is far different than the UAW!
Wed, 11/19/2008 - 18:43 ET by Wilbur747My vehicles wasn't built in Japan, but here in the U.S. in Indiana by non-labor workers.
Besides, the work ethic of Japanese workers far and away exceeds the work ethic of UAW labor. It's American unions that have the worst reputation.
Res tantum valorem quantum vendi potest
Wed, 11/19/2008 - 18:30 ET by UnsaneYou guarantee Toyotas are built with union labor? This will come as a surprise to Toyota employees in San Antonio.
The Big Three CAN'T make a reasonably priced vehicle (but they do make quality ones; just take a look at my Dodge), because they have to pay exorbitant labor costs thanks to the unions.
Is it too much to ask you to familiarize yourself with economics before posting here?
Res tantum valorem quantum vendi potest.
"THIS IS YOUR FINAL WARNING!!! A WAR ON FREEWILL IS COMING!!!" - Nevermore, "Bittersweet Feast", from This Godless Endeavor (2005)
Maybe you're the one who needs to research...
Wed, 11/19/2008 - 19:41 ET by Wilbur747I refer you to the third paragraph of the link below:
"The NUMMI plant employs around 5440 “team members.” Some 4550 of these employees also play for the UAW. This makes NUMMI the only Toyota plant using UAW labor and one of the highest-labor-cost manufacturing facilities in the entire American automotive industry."
http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/nummi-rip-toyota-considers-dumping-uaw-plant/
Secondly:
http://www.reuters.com/article/domesticNews/idUSN1131262820080711
"Toyota's decision to keep its San Antonio plant workers on the payroll could also be an attempt by the automaker to hold off the United Auto Workers union, which has a stronghold among U.S. automakers and suppliers. So far, attempts by the UAW to unionize Toyota's U.S. plants have been unsuccessful."
Lastly:
http://www.uawregion1a.org/News%20Articles/Newpaper/Det.%20News/Microsof...
"When Toyota Motor Corp. put a plant in Indiana, in Princeton in the southwest corner of
the state, anyone from Indiana was allowed to apply for a job. But in the end Toyota
hired almost all of the workers from within 50 miles of the plant, a Toyota spokesman
said. At Toyota's new truck plant in San Antonio, skilled tradesmen were hired from as
far away as the Midwest, the spokesman said, but neither plant has unionized."
The citizens of Massachusetts may deserve Barney, but we don't.
Wed, 11/19/2008 - 15:58 ET by ThalpyThe citizens of Massachusetts may deserve Barney, but we don't. Since he and his former boyfriend are principal reasons for the economic mess we are in, it's about time that some of his supporters took some in-coming. He should know that we are not the same and don't have unlimited resources. He should know that a person making $50,000/yr. can't afford a house that costs $500,000. Equality and social justice are themes of the Left--both based on a utopian pipe dream. If we were all the same, we'd be the same. We are not! Affirmitive action home loans can never work unless there is a redistribution of wealth, and many of us do not want to pay for the poor life choices others have made. Charity should be voluntary, not mandatory. At any rate, it's time for new representation. The bail-out plan had to have over $150 billion in pork so that our representatives would sign on for it. These jerks don't represent us; they represent themselves. It's greed-pure and simple. Their allegiance isn't to us.
Barnyard
Wed, 11/19/2008 - 16:54 ET by Pha PhaTrust me, I am from Mass.and he is my congressman. While most of the moonbats in this screwy state love that Fred Flintstone in a suit. The Common Sense people I know wonder how he gets elected every year. As a matter of fact, I going to call his DC office right now(for the 2nd time today) and give his aid an airful. I suggest everyone join me.And please call your Congressperson and/or Senator.
dial 202-225-5931 and let him have it.
What's good for the goose is good for the gander
Wed, 11/19/2008 - 18:35 ET by c5thenSince the Unions bankrupted the big three auto makers, it's only appropriate that the unions go away with the Chapter 11 filing. There are Federal and State laws on the books today that make unions obsolete.
Hey, I got the wrong "CHANGE"!
Alan Keyes / Sarah Palin - 2012
Hasn't the bloated, lisping
Wed, 11/19/2008 - 19:18 ET by fitzfongHasn't the bloated, lisping pimp done enough damage? His input on the matter should be ZERO...in fact, he should be in prison. That said, if filing Chapter 11 would rid the host of parasitic union contracts...GOOD!
"Government's view of the economy could be summed up in a few short phrases: If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops moving, subsidize it." -Ronald Reagan
fitzfong.blogspot.com
fitz... Yep, it is more
Wed, 11/19/2008 - 19:26 ET by bigtimerfitz...
Yep, it is more than infuriating seeing the likes of him chairing this all (I cannot watch it)...he should be behind bars along with others (some that may be coming back into the O's administration, we all know Rahm already is (Gorelick may be next)...but no...he has a 'D' after his name so the msm does nothing, we all know he would of been forced to step down, let alone most likely been forced out of congress if this was reversed, adn the majority of the 'R's stay mum....
...what is wrong with this picture...eh?
I give up any more.
"America isn't the problem...America is the solution." ~ Rush Limbaugh
Unions
Wed, 11/19/2008 - 19:20 ET by racer148Always love people saying get rid of Unions now. There's no doubt very corrupt people in Unions, as there is in non unions or any other type of business of Gov't job. If it wasn't for the unions we'd be working for $10.00 a hour with no benefits. But people forget what it was like. Now instead of raises,m union member are taking cuts in pay to keep their jobs. Lets just get rid of the middle class all together. That will make you whiners happy.
You should learn to be more grateful for a change
Wed, 11/19/2008 - 19:42 ET by UnsaneActually, without unions THE MARKET would set the price for labor, instead of routinely pricing people out of the market and thus making them unemployed. Making $10/hr is a lot preferable to $0/hr. Ask the former employees of Kroger in San Antonio (see earlier example).
And markets COMPETE for labor; hence companies will fight each other with better benefits packages and salaries. As much as you wish to believe than all management and company ownership is EVIL (and hate your employers and management) and that we still live in the 1880s, neither is true.
"THIS IS YOUR FINAL WARNING!!! A WAR ON FREEWILL IS COMING!!!" - Nevermore, "Bittersweet Feast", from This Godless Endeavor (2005)
I love how apologists for
Wed, 11/19/2008 - 20:39 ET by fitzfongI love how apologists for unions always act like rank-and-file union members are innocent victims. Yeah, the goon bosses are the focus of union corruption, but the rank-and-file members act as if the world would fall apart without them. A more blinkered, self-serving claim could hardly be made. Unions (including their rank-and-file) have caused irreparable damage to the economy by artificially raising wages and benefits. When the products you union types produce don't sell (because they're overpriced to cover the costs of your artificially bloated benefits), the company has trouble meeting existing obligations. You act like the unions are doing everyone a big favor by conceding a few points in collective bargaining...if you were honest with yourself, you would admit that these concessions were the least you could do to keep the company afloat and keep you in a job...but no, you got yours, and you made some overdue concessions FOR ONCE, and we're supposed to feel sorry for you. Well, you're not getting any sympathy from me. I'm not about to be bullied through populist peer pressure to act as if you union types are anything but an unnecessary, parasitic luxury. Tell me, why is it that unions always feel it necessary to involve the public in their disputes? Why is it that they must use threats of violence, intimidation and poisonous terms like "scab" to shame the public into supporting them? Sorry, but you're the problem, not the solution.
"Government's view of the economy could be summed up in a few short phrases: If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops moving, subsidize it." -Ronald Reagan
fitzfong.blogspot.com
Please...
Wed, 11/19/2008 - 19:33 ET by jdubyaWhat is it with this clown? He is a blabbering buffoon to the nth degree.
I do not believe he has ever held a real job in the real world. I looked at his dossier on Wiki, or the Ministry of Misinformation and it only lists that he had gone to school and studied at Harvard and left grad school and taught at another school...IN WHAT?
He seems to be fitting the typical namby pamby loony liberal ideology that is for redistribution and increase taxes.
No wonder Fred/Fan imploded, idiots like him, with no solid work experience play "village" with their positions.
The next time they bring some heads of industry into DC to "grill" them, I hope one of these execs clean his clock figuratively. He is just a small, little man suffering from the small, little man complex.
"I do not believe he has
Wed, 11/19/2008 - 21:03 ET by Dan Diego"I do not believe he has ever held a real job in the real world." I think he once ran a small business out of his DC apartment.
The cost of living's going up, and the chance of livin's going down. - Flip Wilson
DD... Is being a Pimp
Wed, 11/19/2008 - 21:08 ET by Clear thinkerDD...
Is being a Pimp considered a job?
Teach Your Children Well
Making Fun of AGW http://giovanniworld.wordpress.com/
Well, you'd have to manage
Wed, 11/19/2008 - 21:30 ET by Dan DiegoWell, you'd have to manage some ASSets and handle multiple deposits and withdrawls. Sounds like business and banking combined.
The cost of living's going up, and the chance of livin's going down. - Flip Wilson
Let Detroit Go Bankrupt
Wed, 11/19/2008 - 20:07 ET by PopularTechLet Detroit Go Bankrupt (The New York Times)
Hey PT... I read that
Wed, 11/19/2008 - 20:22 ET by bigtimerHey PT...
I read that article earlier somewhere before getting on NBs...anyway, he is exactly right, and seal their fate indeed with a bail-out bill.
I heard a little bit of Boxer this morning yammering away about what the congress want to impose on the Big 3 with more regulations...they just do not quit....ever...of course she is Union/environ backed...they have been a big part of the problem too.
We shall see...by the way, I also heard Romney this afternoon on FBC (I think it is Fox Business channel)...anyway, he was talking about all of what he had written ect.
He wrote a short, to the point, easy to understand article, even for the left in this country, if hey read it that is.
"America isn't the problem...America is the solution." ~ Rush Limbaugh
The Democrats are going to destroy the economy
Wed, 11/19/2008 - 20:36 ET by PopularTechThey are economically illiterate and repeating the same mistakes that got us into the great depression. Badly run companies need to fail so that the U.S. auto industry can become competitive again. If Obama starts acting like FDR, God help us all.
America's Great Depression (PDF) (368 pgs) (Murray Rothbard, Ph.D. Economics, 5th Edition, 2000)
BTW, I also hear clueless fools on TV talking about GM being essential to the military? What? GM's defense division was sold to General Dynamics in 2003!
Censored Global Warming Videos
PT... They already
Wed, 11/19/2008 - 20:40 ET by Clear thinkerPT...
They already have!
Teach Your Children Well
Making Fun of AGW http://giovanniworld.wordpress.com/
PT... I have heard that
Wed, 11/19/2008 - 20:54 ET by bigtimerPT...
I have heard that endlessly about GM and the military too...I didn't know about General Dynamics...thank you for this rich tidbit of info...I almost want to lol...you would think somebody, anybody would of bothered to check that out.
Then again, that's the brain-dead msm for you.
Thank goodness for the internet, NBs and posts like yours.
"America isn't the problem...America is the solution." ~ Rush Limbaugh
General Dynamics to acquire GM Defense business (2002)
Wed, 11/19/2008 - 21:05 ET by PopularTechGeneral Dynamics to acquire GM Defense business (USA Today, 2002)
Censored Global Warming Videos
→ Nero Fiddles
Wed, 11/19/2008 - 21:21 ET by Cool ArrowMitt was absolutely correct with his NYT OpEd.
Too much NVA (non value added) weight applied to each unit sold by the Big 3. And like Dick Morris said tonight, the worst "income inequality" (Bawney Fwank's words) is Zero wages.
GM needs to file, and soon.
Obama will make FDR look
Wed, 11/19/2008 - 22:10 ET by NL207Obama will make FDR look like a conservative.
Who Is Stupid?
Wed, 11/19/2008 - 20:08 ET by melpolhttp://www.associatedcontent.com/melpol
Moe gave Shmoe unlimited credit and sold out every item in his store. Now Moe has an empty store and needs to refill it with merchandise but he does not have the cash because Shmoe never paid him back. Fortunately Moe has political connections in Washington and is bailed out by them. But instead of filling his store and giving Shmoe more credit he retires in Miami and keeps the bailout money for himself. Moe and Shmoe both got a freebie. Who is stupider? Moe, Shmoe or the taxpayers?
Who Is Stupid, Melpol?
Wed, 11/19/2008 - 22:11 ET by R D HelmWhy, you are!
BTW-Don't you ever tire of coming in here and defecating all over the hallways of NB with your pre-written (no-doubt by others) regurgitated, Obama-botic nonsensical BS?
-Dave
Did this country just elect Obama/Biden, or was it Soros/Ayers?
Hey, y'all cut Bawney Fwank some slack here...
Wed, 11/19/2008 - 22:05 ET by R D Helm...at least he admitted what this stupid bailout is really for-the unions, although I don't think he really intended to.
-Dave
Did this country just elect Obama/Biden, or was it Soros/Ayers?
STUPIDITY
Wed, 11/19/2008 - 22:47 ET by melpolhttp://www.associatedcontent.com/melpol
Moe gave Shmoe unlimited credit and sold out every item in his store. Now Moe has an empty store and needs to refill it with merchandise but he does not have the cash because Shmoe never paid him back. Fortunately Moe has political connections in Washington and is bailed out by them. But instead of refilling his store and giving Shmoe more credit he retires in Miami and keeps the bailout money for himself. Moe and Shmoe both got a freebie. Who is stupider? Moe, Shmoe or the taxpayers?
Okay, Obamabot, we got it the first time.
Wed, 11/19/2008 - 22:58 ET by R D Helm-Dave
Did this country just elect Obama/Biden, or was it Soros/Ayers?
Detroit: Bail out
Thu, 11/20/2008 - 02:17 ET by outofworkroseBarney,
You are such a cartoon! The UAW has caused the big 3 to be in the
position they are in now. The auto industry has not evolved and
required for any business to survive. They need to go BK to reorganize.
Are you serious about the “income inequality” in the unions. The auto
union employees are way over paid, for their skill levels on the
assembly line. There are plenty of skilled workers in this country in
non-union jobs that do not see the income levels of the assembly
workers in the auto industry. If you bail out the auto industry, the
only people that would be “stiffed” (to use your legal term) is the US
TAX PAYERS!. You remember them right, they elected your sorry behind. I
guess you and the rest of the pathetic POLITICAL WHORES in Washington
are more concerned about The United Auto Workers Union, then the people
you are supposed to represent. I CAN’T WAIT FOR THE MID TERM ELECTIONS,
TO SEE YOU AND THE REST OF THE INCOMPETENT,FISCALLY IRRESPONSIBLE,SORRY
EXCUSE FOR LAW MAKERS THAT ARE CURRENTLY EMPLOYED IN THIS COUNTRY, BE
TOSSED OUT ON YOUR COLLECTIVE A*$es. Hey, Mr. Cartoon, did you happen
to see that the poor, poor, heads of the auto industry came to beg for
money via a PRIVATE JET! These are the MORONS you want to give money
to. You think maybe they put themselves in this position YOU DUM ASS.
ARE YOU NOT PAID TO THINK?!!!!!
"the only people that would
Thu, 11/20/2008 - 02:29 ET by NL207"the only people that would be “stiffed” (to use your legal term) is the US TAX PAYERS"
You know, Barney thinks that might be fun. he wouldn't mind that at all so why should the taxpayers? Sounds like good, clean fun to Barney!
Barney just loves a good
Thu, 11/20/2008 - 02:33 ET by Clear thinkerBarney just loves a good stiffy!
Sorry folks, I just could not pass this one up.
Gun Sales Will Skyrocket Again
Making Fun of AGW http://giovanniworld.wordpress.com/
This whole financial crisis
Mon, 02/02/2009 - 08:52 ET by joeAnneThis whole financial crisis we are dealing with lately is really giving us serious headaches. I don't know what to say more, I just can't. These is only one option to try, the mortage calculator. As far as I have heard it really give good results.