Buchanan: Immigration Will Prevent Pendulum From Swinging Back

Photo of Mark Finkelstein.
  • Bookmark and Share

Pat Buchanan just snatched the security blanket from conservatives and stomped on it. Contemplating the prospect of an electoral loss, some conservatives are consoling themselves by imagining that the political pendulum will soon start swinging back their way.

Buchanan doesn't think so, and his very first words on the matter this morning explain why: "demography is destiny."  Buchanan offered his analysis during the opening segment of today's Morning Joe.

View video here.

Story Continues Below Ad ↓

PAT BUCHANAN: I think demography is destiny, Joe.  And the country is becoming more Hispanic, more African-American, more minority, immigrants.  These folks come in, 90% poor, not well-educated: they look to government. I mean, the idea of small government is not one that has--it has an appeal to a diminishing number of Americans.  The Reagan Democrats are dying out.
Joe Scarborough offered a more sanguine perspective.
JOE SCARBOROUGH: Pat, the thing is, we can debate immigration throughout the next 28 hours that we're on the air.  I can only say that you can say the same thing of Irish-Americans when they came, Italian-Americans when they came here.  The challenge for this country is to bring in new immigrants and get them invested in the American Dream so they understand: working hard, paying less taxes, growing your business, hiring friends --

BUCHANAN:  All those immigrants: our parents, your parents, they came in, and they came right through the Democratic party, and they stayed there for about 30 years. Until, sort of the gates were closed for awhile. Then they moved into the middle class, and this is going to take a long, long time.

SCARBOROUGH: It may take awhile, but at the same time, you talk about demographics being destiny.  The fact is, we've got baby boomers moving towards retirement, starting to retire now.  Young people that I talk to at colleges --

MIKE BARNICLE: Increasingly conservative.

SCARBOROUGH: That we talked to at Columbia, are increasingly
conservative.  Cause you know what they understand?  All of these
government promises about Social Security, Medicare?  All a mirage.
They're not going to get any.  You start talking to them about the
fact that if we don't stop the growth of government, if we don't
start putting the individual on top of the centralized state, you
: Colin Barnicle, you: Joey Scarborough, will be paying 75% of your check to the United States government.  And you know what?  They immediately become libertarians.
Your thoughts?  Is Buchanan simply being xenophobic, or is there reason to believe that new generations of immigrants won't embrace the American Dream as previous ones did?  Do people see evidence supporting Scarborough's view that younger people are trending conservative as they see the bill for their parents' retirement coming due at their expense?

—Mark Finkelstein is a NewsBusters contributing editor and host of Right Angle. Contact him at mark@gunhill.net.


Comments Policy

All comments are owned by whoever posted them and are subject to our terms of use. They should not be assumed to represent the views of NewsBusters.

Viewing options

Select your preferred way to display the comments and click "Save settings" to activate your changes.

PAT BUCHANAN: ......  The

PAT BUCHANAN: ......  The Reagan Democrats are dying out.

    The Reagan Democrats are dying out because there are no Reagans.  Where is the Republican leadership? This party hasn't had a Party spokesman for years, just a few timid mice who will occasionally poke their heads out of their burrows, start squeaking they are willing to 'work across the isle' and when the democrats and the press growl at them they scramble back to the safety of their dens.

Where is the Republican

Where is the Republican leadership?

They have already surrendered.

Buchanan is dead on target.  The new Latino immigrants, legal and illegal, who the Republicans thought they would capture on cultural issues (pro-life etc) are going Democrat for the cradle-to-grave entitlements instead.

The whole country is moving left; people want government to provide more and more for them, and the Republicans have learned that lesson.  So they try to offer what the Democrats offer, only less of, and that doesn't work because the selfish people here want it ALL.

I won't have to worry about putting gas in my car; I won't have to worry about paying my mortgage; If I help him (Obama) he's gonna help me! Peggy Joseph, Obama supporter

NO-NO-NO

You are forgetting someone: The Christian Community. This group is, by far, the largest group of commonalities in America, BY FAR.

If Obama wins this election AND if a TRIFECTA EVIL EMPIRE (Executive, House and Senate) takes control of America with a leftist agenda that includes all of the elements of socialism that we expect, as well as The Fairness Doctrine, etc., there is going to be a Christian Counter-Reaction like the free world has NEVER seen.

 We Christians are going to put aside all of our bashfullness. We will start a reorganizing process on November 5, 2008 that will culminate in the take back of America in the congress 2 years from tomorrow and in 4 years from tomorrow, A RETURN TO ONE NATION UNDER GOD by putting the White House back in the hands of a Truly Patriotic, God Fearing American with the Christian values that made this country what AMERICA once was and still can become.

If no one else can whip these anti American, leftist, socialists, including democrats and the media, then we will.

COUNT ON IT! IT WILL BE DIFFICULT BUT WE ACCEPT THE CHALLENGE! LET IT BEGIN WITH ME! I AM NOT AFRAID! 

buckeye..this is for you.

As I stated in my previous posts, the prospects of an Obama presidency is quite possible.  I am with you on November 5 as we start taking this country back.  The evil trifecta you say will be on their side but they're only human, they'll make mistakes and the Americans who have been fooled into voting for "change" will soon know that they will have to vote for "change' again, in two and four years from now.

Having plagiarized your state flag, what else can Obama steal from you? 

God Bless America, God Help Us All..... 

Semolina:A few quick notes

A good place to start would be with a recently, prominent person to build on; someone who is a late comer, someone who is not ashamed of HER Christianity; someone that the libs/MSM both fear and despise; a good starting point. Guess who?

From there, we need to build a group of Christian Conservatives around HER for the future. WE MUST NEVER, REGARDLESS OF THEIR RESPECTABILITIES ALLOW OURSELVES TO BE BOB DOLED OR JOHN MCCAINED AGAIN!

We must not exclude the unchurched, we must instruct them. We must convince minorities of the truth; that the Christian Community is the ONLY place that truly accepts them as our brothers and sisters and the fair inclusion of minorities into the American Dream is best accomplished in Christian Brotherhood and Conservatism. ALL OTHER GIVEAWAYS AND PROMISES OVER THE LAST 60 YEARS HAS DONE NOTHING BUT ENSLAVE THEM FURTHER, NOT MUCH DIFFERENTLY FROM 1860.

We must quit hiding and proudly announce to the world the issues that we espouse and will not compromise on. ULTIMATE TRUTH DOES REALLY EXIST. GOD IS REAL, THE AUTHOR OF ALL THINGS AND WE WILL INSIST ON CONDUCTING OUR BUSINESS AS SUCH.

We must totally put aside our fear of losing our tax exempt status. How many times have we compromised our beliefs by kneeling at the false idol of "Tax Exempt Status". We need to preach what we believe (The Bible) from all pulpits and political correctness go to Hell. "Where the Bible speaks we speak and where the Bible is silent, we remain silent.

We must dismiss denominationalism, recognize and celebrate the commonalities of all Christian faiths and put aside petty differences that I am sure are enormous disappointments to Our Lord.

We must start tomorrow regardless of the outcome of this election, lest we forget.

 God's will be done.

Hey Cv,

I have to say that the last few months of this election have truly discouraged my about the future of our country politically.

I go to a VERY conservative church that is voting overwhelmingly for OBAMA.  We have people in our church who believe all the anti-Bush propaganda, haven't heard hardly any negative obama stuff and when they do, like everyone else, they don't care.  We even have people going up to the pulpit saying they love Obama, this never happens in our church, we are very apolitical.

Two qualifiers,

1 - I live in Ma.  so it may be that many of these people just never question their own politics and for the sake of the gospel just go along to get along.   Maybe elsewhere Christians are more thoughtful about the other side.

2 - I think the school system has done it's job for the Democrats.  Whenever I talk to students at the college I work for they are totally brainwashed, I even sense that somewhat in our church as well.

My thoughts are that the next 4 years of an Obama administration are going to look just like the last 2 years of his campaign; Whitewash.  Any scandals or malfesance is going to be un- or under-reported and even the little good he may do will be blown out of proportion as huge.

Everywhere he goes they will report the crowds and avoid the protestors.

Iraq will look like the garden of eden, the economy, starting the day he wins the election, will immediately start looking better and better.

None of this will be reality but I don't see the media letting up for one second IF he wins. 

 My only hope is that people will see Obama as they saw Jimmy Carter and he will a last 4 years a be gone.

Any attempt to do what the Democrats did 4 years ago and start campaigning early will be spun by the media as "divisive" politics. 

As I see it, even if the Media is losing it's grip, there are still more than enough people watching ABC, NBC, CBS, CNN to swing ANY election and I think they will have proven, IF Obama wins, that they still have enough power to get it done. 

Where is the Republican leadership, you ask...

Do we start cleaning house at the RNC?  

I agree with Buchanan but for slightly different reasons

The immigrants won't embrace the American Dream because it won't be there.  Obama will get more and more people hooked on government. 

If Obama wins, I truly believe our Country will be forever changed into something like Argentina or Venezuela. It's not going to happen overnight but it's going to be a slow steady burn over about 12 yrs.   Most people won't see it coming until it's too late. The media certainly won't clue people in.

Our only glimmer of hope if Obama wins is to bring a massive tidal wave of true conservatives in 2010 to take over congress.  Even that will be very difficult because ACORN and other left wing groups will be operating with complete immunity and our tax dollars. 

Corruption will be rampant but unreported.  First it won't be reported because the media won't want to admit they were wrong, then over time, it won't be allowed.  

This is an important election, I hope no one sits it out.  If Obama wins, then we need to get organized ASAP and start protesting and demanding laws that require ID to vote and tighter election laws that stop Foreigners and Billionaire Socialists from running our Country.  We also have to be highly organized with massive protests against the fairness doctrine unless it applies to TV and film also. 

We also need to figure out a way to get at least one major network to be conservative.

Dee

Well said Dee.  I agree with everything you say here ESPECIALLY:

Our only glimmer of hope if Obama wins is to bring a massive tidal wave of true conservatives in 2010 to take over congress.

And I think what you say about the conservative major network is key for this to happen.  If people aren't being informed, nothing will change.  If enough of us demand this, someone will see (if nothing else) the monetary value of developing such a station and will do it.

influence demographics

If demography is destiny, HAVE LOTS OF BABIES!! (And raise em right). I've done my part with 4, all you slackers with 1 or 2 of NONE need to get crackin'.

This is the point of Mark

Me too...I have 3.

This is the point of Mark Steyn's book  America Alone...why the world will be conquered by Islam...Europe and America are not reproduing at replacement rate, except for Hispanics, and even that is changing as they become more "Americanized."

As Steyn says: The future belongs to the fecund and the confident.  Islamists are both.

(Buchanan's The Death of the West has a similar theme)

motherbelt

".Europe and America are not reproduing at replacement rate,"

I think you are wrong, Europe and Asia, are not reproducing at replacement rate, the US is doing just fine. And it is not hinged on the hispanics.

you might want to reread Steyn's book.

 

um Mr X

America is in better shape than Europe, but our population is still aging.

http://www.boston.com/yourlife/health/aging/articles/2007/08/30/americas_golden_years/

Maybe you should read the news again.

hate to burst one's bubble, but...

Related Topic: Changing demographics

The report found that the birthrate was higher for some demographics. For example, Hispanic women still have an average of 2.3 children by the time they reach their forties. The number is higher than the national average, which has dropped from 3.1 to 1.9 over the past 30 years. The shift in birthrate may have implications for the population at large. The census bureau also recently issued a report predicting that by 2042, minorities will compose the majority of the United States population.

Aside from Hispanics and residents of Utah, the U.S. is not "just doing fine" (we're below replacement, like MB correctly pointed out).  And the day of reckoning is near (i.e., the bankrupt entitlement system, which assumes population growth, will bring this country to its knees).

 

And Darkness and Decay and the Red Death held illimitable dominion over all.   -- Edgar Allan Poe

I Failed

Sorry gg, I failed the country. I only had two children. This year is my daughter's first Presidential election. My son just missed it; he turns 18 on Feb 12th.

However, I have raised two strict Constitutional Constructionists. They know the Constitution better than I do. They fully understand what "Spread The Wealth" meant. So I think raising two radical right-wingers should count as three kids, right?

I am Voting Country First

Vote Because You Get To.

http://sarah-palin-2008.blogspot.com/

  If Obama wins, future

 
If Obama wins, future elections will be run between the far-left and centrist moderate Democrats trying to pass themselves off as Republicans. It may take generations, if ever to recover from this. Welcome to European style Socialist-Democracy folks, we are truly screwed if zero wins.

 

"You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy. We must be cautious. "

- Ben Kenobi on  Liberals, and the MSM.

" The Cake is a lie."   

The GOP at a standstill

The future of the GOP is now.  Faced with a prospect of becoming a minority party, the Republican leadership need to homegrown its talent base.  We have a few up and coming, young stars in the making.  Should O-zero win and in all likelihood he just might, the GOP needs to start thinking about itself on November 5.  Buchanan has left the GOP many years ago that no matter what he says, it becomes irrelevant.  If only the GOP has grassroots campaigning efficiently downpat like the Dimwitcrats, we wouldn't have to put up with debacles every election.  The Republican party needs to be re-energized and reformed as the party of all Americans, especially the middle class, taxpaying Americans as the backbone.  The party needs to get rid of the Northern elitist, country-club atmosphere that appears to cater only to the rich.  Yes, I am tired of the Republican party the way it is now.  The future begins as we go back to the past.  We are and always have been the party of Lincoln, Dr. Martin Luther King Jr., and Ronald Reagan.  

we are screwed either way...

"Welcome to European style Socialist-Democracy folks, we are truly screwed if zero wins."

we are screwed either way...this country is headed left, it's just that a hO'Bama victory will speed the process up.

I am planing my escape. I cannot stomach living in a nanny state.

What this highlights is the

What this highlights is the failure of the GOP to stay on topic and expound upon the theme.  Joe is absolutely correct, people pay attention and change their tune when they hear 75% of their paycheck will go to government.  The GOP has done a dismal job of PR when it comes to Social Security.  We could have roasted the Dems over this issue when W first brought up the need for reforms but as usual, the GOP poobaas didn't have the staying power or vision of how they could use this to further the Party as a whole.  A complete failure of leadership because there was no vision or backbone.  It's time to turn the tables on the Dems, use the Alinsky method on them, RUB IT RAW.  The collosal failure of the GOP leadership was not making the issue of the 1% Return On Investment (ROI) that Americans are forced to accept from Social Security.  Not making the issue of the embezzlement of SS funds under the fraud called PAYGO using pension fund money to pay operating expenses. 

Now the Dems want to extend this fraud to our 401k investments.  The thieves are openly talking of confiscating $3 trillion in 401ks accounts to pay for the shortfall in SS and Medicare.  In return, they are going to give a 3% return for that money.  Notice the SS trust fund has $3.5 trillion in IOUs, that's why they want to steal your 401k money.  Do we hear campaign ads talking about this?  In 20 years or so down the line, where will they steal that $3 trillion from?

Do we hear campaign ads about Obama talking about bankrupting the coal industry?  Why is it bloggers are the ones digging this up and carrying the water while the GOP sits there like idiots? The worst part about this is the GOP staff is paid to screw up and we the rank and file are expected to support their incompetence.  Yes, you heard me you morons,  get off your butts and act like a POLITICAL PARTY.  The average person needs guidance in the face of a constant barrage of propaganda.  Your idea is to sit there and say "unbelievable" and stand aghast when the Dems prattle their endless stream of mistatements like Joe Biden did at the VP debates.  Don't you guys get it?  The Dems aren't interested in playing nice or power sharing.  Don't think for one minute they are interested in any of your concerns or will give you professional courtesy for not hurting their feeling during a campaign.  The idea you have to make nice and smile like an idiot is your failed rules and that's not the rules the Dems are playing by.

Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid, starving the poor one gallon of ethanol at a time. Fill your tank with E85 and cull a village.

Thanks for the butt-kicking.

dscott...Thank you for the butt-kicking.  I DESERVED IT!  A lot of us do.  And, you are absolutely right. 

The Dems were so far ahead of the GOP in the "marketing" of Obama.  A lesson to be learned for sure.  One story I saw...the principal of a high school made sure voting-age kids were registered and DRIVEN in school buses to a voting place!  Brilliant.  (My wife is a former principal/district administrator says if not done correctly could actually be illegal...parents may've "rented" bus for "field trip".)  The principal's affiliation was never mentioned but, from the camera shots of the kids, I got the impression they were probably going to vote for Obama.

I fear Pat Buchanan is right though.  The immigrant effect will be there for a long time to come. 

An excellent thread all together.

Well if you have any pull

Well if you have any pull with GOP they need to listen to us the first time around instead of only listening when they finally see their methods not working.  How many times and how long have we on the Right been telling the GOP leadership what the country actually feels and then don't bother to take our advice?  McCain is typical of this behavior, it's not until all of his moderate, centerist crappola fails that he then takes our advice.  The choice of Palin is the perfect example of this, he was essentially washed up until he gave in and choose a conservative VP. 

The bottom line is this, being a moderate means not having anything worth fighting for and letting other people make decisions for you.  Who are the deciders?  The Right or the Left, NOT the moderates as they will go with whomever is expedient to their interests of the moment.  Moderate stands for mediocre, passionless and aimless.  If you want to be a leader, then being a moderate is NOT a winning strategy.  Going along to get along gets you nowhere in the face of a determined group (liberals) who plans to put you out in the cold.

Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid, starving the poor one gallon of ethanol at a time. Fill your tank with E85 and cull a village.

dscott... Hear!

dscott...

Hear! Hear!

You said it all in both of your posts...I could not agree more, every single word you posted spoke for me and my views.

Thanks.

"America isn't the problem...America is the solution." ~ Rush Limbaugh

Pat is right and Barnicle and Joe almost soiled themselves

David Frum quotes
a conservative correspondent who talks about the insuperable electoral
difficulties created for the GOP by the loss of California to the
Democrats 15 years ago, and now by the impending loss of other western
states as well. The reason that California and the Southwest are being lost to the Democrats: the vast increase of the Hispanic population. The correspondent points out that Arizona, New Mexico, Nevada and nearby states will soon go the way of California. The Latin American invasion spells demographic doom for both the GOP
and conservatism, and hence for ordered liberty under
limited government with individual rights, rather than group rights and
identity politics.

Is conforming to leftist race baiters by avoiding talk of demographics more important than conserving american liberty and preserving individual rights instead of boosting identity politics and economic egalitarianism? Scarborough and Barnicle seem to think so. That' why John McCain is losing 20% of the conservative vote according to the final IBD/TIPP final election tracking poll.

 
Final IBD poll: Obama 51.5, McCain 44.3

 

Winning Hispanics and Losing Conservatism

Tony Blankley
A new conservative agenda: Winning Hispanics

Since Hispanics are positively predisposed to paternalistic government and socialist policies who do you think has a better chance of winning them over? Democrats or Republicans? Democratic Socialists or Conservative Libertarians?

When Texas joins states such as Colorado, New Mexico (and even North
Carolina, Virginia, Arizona, Florida and many others) where Hispanic
votes are necessary for victory, there is no possibility of national
governance for conservatism.

why are we surprised?

This is what the GOP leadership has wanted all along, to move to the center, to rebrand itself as a JFK type party, to finally shrug off the stigma of being controlled by the far right. They've explained this countless times. And we supported them every step because we were scared of the Democrats.

Well look where that has gotten us.

Mornin' cd,

I voted for my last 3 republicans about two hours ago.

Unless and until the Republican Party returns to its senses, I will be voting straight Liberatarian from now on.

-And that includes my future votes for POTUS, too.

I hate to say it, but in many ways the Republican Party richly deserves the drumming it is going to be getting today.

-Dave

I voted. Have you?

democracy -- a dirty business

Look, the GOP, like any other political party, is in the business of getting elected.  If one party prostitutes itself by "stealing from Peter to pay Paul," thereby "getting the support of Paul," and coupling this with a good measure of guilt-plagued concession from Peter, then the other party has no other choice than somehow seek the appeasement of Paul (i.e., move to the center), or else founder.

 

And Darkness and Decay and the Red Death held illimitable dominion over all.   -- Edgar Allan Poe

Buck

I kind of liked Pat Buchanan back in the 90's. As the 90's wore on, though, I began to realize that he wasn't really a Reagan Republican. Nothing he has ever said would win California for us. Reagan won California for us without selling out his principles. All Buchanan did was give our side a bad name. Then I began to dispise him when he almost cost W the election in 2000. If Buchanan had not run, it would have already been over, and Florida would not have happened. I wrote this e-mail 11/15/2000:

In going with that concept that "Gore lost because of Nader", I present that this election would already be over if it wasn't for Pat Buchanan. Check it out:

Wisconsin
DEM GORE          1,240,431   11 Electorals
REP BUSH           1,235,035+
RFM BUCHANAN       11,379

Oregon
DEM GORE        709,740        7 Electorals
REP BUSH         705,557+
IND BUCHANAN    6,966

Iowa
DEM GORE         638,355       7 Electorals
REP BUSH          634,221+
RFM BUCHANAN     5,731

New Mexico
DEM GORE        286,106        7 Electorals
REP BUSH         285,928+
RFM BUCHANAN    1,409

Florida
DEM GORE        2,910,192     25 Electorals
REP BUSH         2,910,492+
RFM BUCHANAN    17,471

He is not being xenophobic

He is not being xenophobic -- he is merely extrapolating a trend from the past two decades.

However, the current election cycle has other variables at play, the whole credit debacle being foremost.  Never mind the fact that this debacle was primarily, from my view, the fault of Democrats, starting with Clinton and including some in the present Congress, along with their insidious ideology (namely, that there is no Universal right or wrong, no God acting as the all-knowing Regulator-In-Chief).  But I digress.  My point is that it doesn't have to be as bad as Mr. Buchanan predicts.  For one thing, Hispanics tend toward conservative (Catholic) social values, and many African Americans are also Bible-believing Christians.  The Republicans should not be afraid of basing their outreach on these issues.  For another thing, I hate to say it, but the fact is, African Americans have a self-imposed low fertility rate, one that does not lead to growth in their demographic, which means it will shrink in terms of relative percentage of the total populace; indeed it is already shrinking.

 

And Darkness and Decay and the Red Death held illimitable dominion over all.   -- Edgar Allan Poe

Buchanan is correct

I agree with Buchanan for one reason. The legal hispanic immigrants and citizens are in support of the illegals invading our nation. Geraldo is a good example. Geraldo Rivera never distinguishes between legal and illegal status. He sees it as a racial hatred issue. The Trojan Horse has entered the city and those inside want to open the gates for the others using US LAWs.

Pat Buchanan is right!

Demography is changing and now the nanny state is coming.  Everyone wants a free lunch. 

The immigrants coming now are not schooled on American thought, United States' world view.  They come with different principles. 

It is true what Daniel Webster wrote long ago, " If we abide by the principals taught in the Bible our country will go on prospering, if we or in succeeding generations reject its authority, or neglect its instructions, no man can tell how sudden a catastrophe may bury our glory in profound destruction."

Hard work and earning your keep is a Biblical principle.  Too many are rejecting that notion for a socialist view which takes away from those who work hard and give it to the less industrious.  That is oppression.

The biased media has possibly succeeded in changing our country's world view.  Demography is destiny?  Most likely so.  

 

Buchanan is right--

Mr Terry-- Buchanan is and has been usually right. Folks like I ignored him when he came into the political arena. I wondered who this journalist was that thought he was presidential material. I thought him uppity. The years have proven me to have been a lazy person who should have listened and read Pat's words more closely.

There are few out there with the love for America, the feel for what is right for America and a great understanding of the motives and intentions of  the "other guys in other countries " that affect world politics.

Honest questions

Hate to be a pain, but let me ask a couple of simple questions ...

  • How many conservatives on this website have read Russell Kirk? (We'll wait while everyone runs to Wikipedia...)
  • How many conservatives on this website can explain the principle of judicial originalism?

I know this is unflattering, especially to most of us who consider ourselves conservative, but I'll argue that being a conservative requires more than simply being against liberals. Sure, we don't want the local sex freak show teaching our children, but what do we have to offer in return? And if we want to offer a coherent alternative, we need to know the details and philosophy of what we're offering. The Buckleys and Himmelfarbs and Borks spent a long time meditating on what conservativism means, or should mean. I argue that after Reagan was elected, conservatism coasted. It became popular, and people flooded to conservatism simply because it wasn't liberalism, but they never took the time to meditate on it.

Remember, demographics trump everything, if the game and the players stay the same. But they don't. Young people grow up. The Irish move from being street hoodlums to becoming cops and politicians. Immigrants don't retain immigrant attitudes forever ... that's why they came here. They came to find a new life, not to bring their old one with them.

My argument is simple. We have work to do. We need to assemble a collectively coherent vision. We need to do it quick, because Obama's radical liberalism is simply ego-driven ambition masked behind academic language. It will fall apart quickly, and we need to be there to pick up the pieces.

Will it be hard? Not really. Remember, what the Buckleys and the Kirks offered the world wasn't a clever theology, but a plain, easily understood vision of what being an American has always meant. Go back to the basics. Our coherent vision isn't a complex fantasy pushed forward by jargon-soaked eggheads. Conservatism is going back to the basics.

Forego the temptation of a political version of the "west coast offense." Read Buckley. Read Kirk. Rediscover what America was designed to be, and why. And then, just block and tackle. The rest will take care of itself.

KC

Any pointers for internet perusing over lunch (aside from Wikipedia, unless you do recommend that)?

 

And Darkness and Decay and the Red Death held illimitable dominion over all.   -- Edgar Allan Poe

Internet?

I freely admit, I don't know about the internet. The internet is a magazine-style medium, which means topical, which means its relevance is temporary. Nobody publishes philosophy over the internet. For political philosophy, you have to go for books. Anything by Bork - you can get them for a couple bucks these days, unfortunately. I read The Conservative Mind a few years ago (that's why I think of Kirk).

Now don't let me kid you ... I certainly haven't read all of them. I've read maybe a dozen books, and I feel woefully ignorant myself. I had a textbook on political philosophy by Leo Strauss that I ignored in college, but I left it in the Porcelain Library (i.e., bathroom) and that's what got me started.

Au contraire -- the

Au contraire -- the Internet is chock full of electronic free versions of classic works.  The Bible, in numerous English translations, is a prime example.  The reason I ask for internet references is because, well, at the risk of sounding obvious, I'm at a computer right now, when I feel so inclined....

 

And Darkness and Decay and the Red Death held illimitable dominion over all.   -- Edgar Allan Poe

I'm open to suggestions

If you find something good, by all means pass it on. I'm a bit hungry for it myself.

We need another Lee Atwater

If McCain does manage to pull this out, conservatives have to do some serious soul searching. How did we let it get this bad? I can understand an aversion to government, but we left it unattended. We have been asleep at the wheel.

If Obama wins, I don't see how we pull ourselves out off this. Do you really think Palin is the future? Answer that tomorrow when we all unzip our lips.

How did we let it get this bad?

" How did we let it get this bad?"

really quite simple....but not real popular..

#1. womens right to vote.

women overwhelmingly long for security(government) over independence and self reliance). 

#2. Television. (should need no explanation)

And these two factors are NOT going to change.

 

well Mr X

I think the GOP could get more women and minorities to vote differently if they took the time to espouse actual conservie ideals. Reagan won them over by selling conservatism in a way they could understand.

Modern Republicans don't educate - they just pander.

Exactly correct, they fail

Exactly correct, they fail to put the issues in terms of the person in the street.  That's part of why Palin is so popular, she connects with the average person. 

Whenever a Dem offers a new gift (bribe) out of their grab bag of give aways, the GOP response has to be so how much do you think that's going to cost you personally?  More sales tax, higher gasoline tax, etc... How much do you have to spare?  How much is in your savings account in case of an emergency like unemployment or financial impacts?  Everytime a Dem villifies business and says jack up their taxes, the GOP response has to be: how much more do you want to pay for the products you buy from that business because every penny is going to be paid for by you.  As long as the common person is lead to believe a new program or expansion of existing ones will not affect their wallet, the response will be to condone or say yes.  People vote with their wallets, plain and simple. Reagan gave a simple illustration: There are more people in the cart than pushing it. 

There needs to be a new Contract with America, a 2.0 version.  Being generous with your own money is a virtue, being generous with other people's money is called stealing.  Socialism is theft.

We have failed to frame the debate of ideas and that is why so many people are misled by liberals.  Does the average person believe you can live life without consequences? No.  Liberals do, but does the average person know this? Does the average person believe if you don't follow the rules you have less probability of having a successful life? Yes.  But liberals don't, again does the average person know this?  Who failed to inform them? The GOP.  Their failing is ASSUMING that the tenets of liberalism are obvious.  Liberals know the average person rejects much of what they believe, that's why they don't openly talk in public about the details like Obama did with bankrupting the Coal industry. The GOP FAILED to inform the public and the MSM or liberals certainly aren't going to do so.

Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid, starving the poor one gallon of ethanol at a time. Fill your tank with E85 and cull a village.

#3

#3  Goverment education (if you can call it that)

Plus History is not being

Plus History is not being taught in our schools anymore.  Without the education of the history of this country, including the Carter disaster, our kids will not care.  They'll always elect the most eloquent and not necessarily the smartest.  I had to live through Carter to become a Republican.

Major difference between todays immigrants and those of the past

The immigrants of yesterday did not come here looking for handouts. We did not have a big social welfare system as we do today. Now they pour across the border to have anchor babies. Half of all Haitian immigants end up on some type of government entitlement. I was in Australia back in January and had a Somalian immigrant cab driver ask if he came to America if he could get unemployment right away. I disagree with Pat on a lot of things, but he is right on this.

Hey Everybody!!

The college kids of today will be watching chunks of their paychecks going into a system that will not be there for them when they retire.  They also will begin to wonder why they have to dole out for others who do not pay into "the system". 

They will ask themselves why they have to pay a few hundred bucks a month into some antequated system that will ultimately fail them.  The ugly thought that libs hate will rear its ugly head, "I bet I could do a better job with my money than the government could".  Wach out when that happens.

God made man, but he used a monkey to do it  -- DEVO

Buchanan Is Always Extreme

Doom and gloom and Pat Buchanan are hand-in-hand. Always have been, always will be. Human beings all react to the same stimuli - when they have their destiny in their own hands, they go for it. They go for what is best, and being able to make your own decisions is always best. It will take time - maybe a generation or two - but people (immigrants) will catch on to the opportunities in America, and they will resent having to pay for others who will not contribute. They will rebel at the ballot box when their noses get too bloody.

The pendulum swings; it is unstoppable.

Buchanan

Pat Buchanan is right! The whole reason we have so many illegals is the freebies us working stiffs provide through our generous tax donations. They will keep the Communist Democrat Storm Troopers in power until we are all broke. Than the Islamic thugs will take us over!

I can't vote for Mccain as a

I can't vote for Mccain as a conservative. I'm from PA and the way I see it is if Mccain were to win it's saying "I like like his interpretation of conservatism" and the old conservatism will be dead forever. 

 If a republican wins the white house than why would any republican want to be tough on immigration again? if mccain can win the presidency on a policy of "invade the world invite the world" than traditional conservatism will die forever.  At least with a leftist in office there is a chance for a real conservative revival, and we wont have a bush to kill it this time. 

 maybe mitt 2012? 

I hear ya...

...but I think the idea here is to vote McPalin!  She's gonna need a VP when she is pres. Maybe Romney would volunteer? 

"There are two types of people in this country; those who provide freedom and those who enjoy it." MM says...

sajc05 - If Obama wins - conservatives will be silenced

so if McCain bothers you that much because he's not a "true" conservative then go right ahead and vote for somone else, but don't fool yourself into thinking we'll get the real conservative to win next time. 

There will be no next time.  Look at how extremely biased everthing is and that still isn't enough for these people.  They have admitted they are going after talk radio.  No conservative word will get out except by word of mouth.  Even that will be hard as you have seen how they treated Joe the Plumber.  

sajc05,

I just hope that we will have an opportunity to vote in 2012.

Should Obama win today, I am not exactly sure we will.

-Dave

I voted. Have you?

no vote = Obama

No one can force you to vote.  But by not voting for the only realizable alternative you are complicit in electing Obama as the Chief Executive Officer of the U.S. for the next 4-8 years.  Untold damage shall be done during that time, as the country is dragged Leftward.

The Republican candidate in '12 will consider the fact that in '08 we had a pro-life, pro-military, pro-gun, anti-tax, candidate, with a very conservative VP, but we lost by popular vote to the most liberal member of the Senate. 

McCain ain't perfect, I'll agree.  But he's sacrificed for this country, he is a honorable man, and he clearly makes the better choice of the two.

Oh, and BTW: Mitt endorsed McCain; Powell and McClellan endorsed Obama.

 

And Darkness and Decay and the Red Death held illimitable dominion over all.   -- Edgar Allan Poe

I understand the alternative

I understand the alternative is way worse. But my concern is this: If a republican gets elected by being more to the left on many issues such as immigration than where will the incentive be for the next republican to move to the right? 

America needs a wake up call, republicans need a wake up call and mccain would only prolong our misery.(by "our" I mean conservatives who think bush is a disgrace to conservatism like myself) misery with the party and misery with the conservative movement.  

you need to wake up sajc05

McCain is portrayed as a right wing extremist and with Dem Control of all three branches and the unofficial 4th branch (media).  No conservative will ever get in again. 

True conservatives will be treated & portrayed like insane people.  

Rush wouldn't be supporting McCain if it wasn't crucial. 

Dee Bunk, there was no

Dee Bunk, there was no conservative voice (outside rush maybe) in 94 when newt and the republicans stormed into washington with a conservative agenda. If they did it then  they can do it again in the age of conservative tv, radio and internet. 

And Am I supposed to be happy when we have unbelievable deficit spending, printing off of money back by nothing or borrowed from china to pay for increased entitlements, increased gov't and so on and its a republican doing it all?  will I say  "well at least it's not obama doing it, its our guy so I feel better about it"?  

All I ask is give me a DAMN conservative to vote for and I'll vote for him, I don't vote for fakes. the dems have their liberal why can't we have our conservative. I'm sick of this phony huge gov't bush style conservatism.  

 

Maybe - Maybe not

I've had the same feelings as Buchanan for a while.  I live in a rapidly changing area - the north eastern suburbs of Atlanta.  The influx of immigrants (legal or otherwise) is extrordinary.  What was once a deep red bastion is quickly turning purple.  Most of the more conservative voters are older, with few new, younger ones moving in.  The party must do a better job at bringing in this new population or else ground will be lost.  The message is not loud enough and the party is being defined by the other side. Unless the leadership can reverse this trend, I don't have much hope for my evolving community.   

next stop?

Alex Tyler, a Scottish history professor at the University of Edinburgh at the time of America's birth, wrote a warning to America in 1787. He observed that the average age of the world's greatest civilizations was about 200 years, during which they inevitably progressed through the following sequence:

  • from bondage to faith, 
  • from faith to courage, 
  • from courage to liberty,       
  • from liberty to abundance,     
  • from abundance to complacency, 
  • from complacency to apathy,    
  • from apathy to dependence, and 
  • from dependence back to bondage.       
  •  (excerpt from an article by Mike Smith of the HSLDA)

    I believe we, as a Nation are crossing the threshold from apathy into dependance.  People have been coming in droves to America.  Some are still seeking the Tradional American dream.  Unfortunately many are looking for the New American Handout.  Yes, America "still has a lot of rich people out there you can tax" but you can only beat up the guy paying the check for the dinner so many times before he'll stop showing up altogether.

    Buchanan Buffoon

    I am a conservative voter and remember when Buchanan ran for President.  After he lost the nomination he sent out letters to his supporters begging for money to help  him pay off his debt.  No deal!!   He is like a blind man lost in a snow storm.  I pay  no attention to any of his ccomments.

     

    Mccain/Palin '08